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View Full Version : The One Question That Will Remain If The Texans Do Make The Playoffs This Year


gary
09-19-2011, 09:46 PM
The defense is a lot better overall and individual performances are just going to get better on defense as the season goes along. I don't want to count my chickens yet and in football there is always room to grow on both sides of the ball. While we have yet to see if the Texans will or won't go on their annual losing streak to keep them from going to the playoffs and the season is still very young thus far but they have the players to make the playoffs this year. We all know that the 2011 Texans are probably the best team in their ten year history. So if this is indeed the year Kubiak and the team finally proves all of us wrong I think we will be asking, so what took so long to hire a proven DC which it looks like the Texans now seem to have in Wade Phillips? What do you guys think?

thunderkyss
09-19-2011, 09:49 PM
This defense hasn't been tested yet.

Marcus
09-19-2011, 09:54 PM
This defense hasn't been tested yet.

They will pretty soon. :)

gary
09-19-2011, 09:57 PM
This defense hasn't been tested yet.There is still a major difference present in the defense though regardless IMO.

fiasco west
09-19-2011, 10:26 PM
Agreed. Last season everyone scored on this team. Last season would have been big days for Henne and Collins. So it is still a big difference from last year imo. They may get torn to shreds by Brees...but this is the same Brees that just did the same to the Packers and Bears so it's to be expected.

thunderkyss
09-19-2011, 10:31 PM
There is still a major difference present in the defense though regardless IMO.
Gary, I'm sorry your original post was very well thought out & complete.

What I honestly think though, last year we had the players. Our problem was standing on the sidelines. I truly believe that. With what they did with that group of guys in 2009, and what they did when they were desperate in 2010, I think it was obvious.

I hope Wade had the fortitude to stick to his guns. He signed off on these players to be aggressive and attack the LOS. That's what we need to do.

badboy
09-19-2011, 10:33 PM
We have had a tremendous turnover in coaching personnel under Kubiak. Sure some left for other opportunites, but I think Gary tried to stick too closely to guys he or his coaches knew in hiring or replacing departing OCs, DCs and their staffs. Anyone think of where we'd be if Wade had remained in Dallas one more year?

The Pencil Neck
09-19-2011, 10:36 PM
The defense is a lot better overall and individual performances are just going to get better on defense as the season goes along. I don't want to count my chickens yet and in football there is always room to grow on both sides of the ball. While we have yet to see if the Texans will or won't go on their annual losing streak to keep them from going to the playoffs and the season is still very young thus far but they have the players to make the playoffs this year. We all know that the 2011 Texans are probably the best team in their ten year history. So if this is indeed the year Kubiak and the team finally proves all of us wrong I think we will be asking, so what took so long to hire a proven DC which it looks like the Texans now seem to have in Wade Phillips? What do you guys think?

There was some talk about this in another thread. My position is two-fold. First, Gary wanted to give some guys a chance to do the job. Second, Gary wanted to give them the chance to truly fail before axing them.

On the first point, Gary initially wanted Bush but Arizona wouldn't let us get him. So Gary went with a secondary choice: Richard Smith. Every year, Richard Smith's defense started like crap (except for the 2nd year, iirc) and then found a way to get better by the end of the season. And every year, Smith had a reason why his defense started off so bad: switching from 3-4 to 4-3 and starting a bunch of rooks, the hurricane, injuries.

Kubiak gave him a chance. That's what I'd want every manager to do. Let the guy prove he's a failure before axing him.

Then he turned to the guy he wanted in the first place: Bush. And we got the same epically bad BS. Even worse, a catastrophic decision made about the defensive backs. I'm assuming here that the decision to go with Kiddie Corners came from Bush and Gibbs. That was their decision to make.

So. Faced with epic failure, either Smithiak OR McNair made the decision to change the strategy and to go with someone with experience.

So it's a question about how long you want to stick with someone before giving up on them.

Playoffs
09-19-2011, 10:59 PM
Everything in my book pointed to Frank Bush being a top DC.

I remember thinking we'd lost one of our own when Arizona held him hostage.

He just wasn't.

gary
09-19-2011, 11:25 PM
Gary, I'm sorry your original post was very well thought out & complete.

What I honestly think though, last year we had the players. Our problem was standing on the sidelines. I truly believe that. With what they did with that group of guys in 2009, and what they did when they were desperate in 2010, I think it was obvious.

I hope Wade had the fortitude to stick to his guns. He signed off on these players to be aggressive and attack the LOS. That's what we need to do.That is my point. Even if the players were in place last year or two years ago, where would they be had they had a top tier DC. I admit Gary had lost me at this point but I am definitely willing to eat my words if he makes me eat them.

houstonspartan
09-20-2011, 01:52 AM
That is my point. Even if the players were in place last year or two years ago, where would they be had they had a top tier DC. I admit Gary had lost me at this point but I am definitely willing to eat my words if he makes me eat them.

Well, coulda, shoulda, woulda. In this case, I'm not a fan of the "What if?" game. I don't care.

We would have been stuck with underperforming and overpaid Dunta Robinson eating up too much cap space, would not have JJ Watt burning down the house every Sunday and Jonathan Joseph would still be stuck in Cincy instead of here making our defense better.

Everything happens as it should.

80tothezone
09-20-2011, 03:02 AM
Well, coulda, shoulda, woulda. In this case, I'm not a fan of the "What if?" game. I don't care.

We would have been stuck with underperforming and overpaid Dunta Robinson eating up too much cap space, would not have JJ Watt burning down the house every Sunday and Jonathan Joseph would still be stuck in Cincy instead of here making our defense better.

Everything happens as it should.

I agree on the dunta thing he really hasn't done well since leaving houston and, bottom line last yr we were missing some vital components. I.e. a Dc and a secondary. Which made it not our year... this yr is different the Run D issue is not as bad as the pass D issue because with our O we should be playing with a lead so running against us is not the best idea nor do I think we will see it that often except maybe in the next few games if we are unable to grab an early lead... also ST seem better and ready to go which is a big part of it .... I REALLY think this team is different, if we had had this exact team last yr we would have made the playoffs and the debate would be what we need to do to get a lambardi, don't forget a majority of the games we lost were lost in the last minute of the game or less by 1 td or less. WE DID THAT WITH A HISTORICALLY BACK DEFENSE...

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

hradhak
09-20-2011, 03:02 AM
That is my point. Even if the players were in place last year or two years ago, where would they be had they had a top tier DC. I admit Gary had lost me at this point but I am definitely willing to eat my words if he makes me eat them.

I personally think it was scheme last year. Our defense became very reactionary last year and was completely bend but don't break. I remember that it took Bush 12 weeks or so to call his first safety blitz with Pollard. We did nothing to protect the corners from getting torched and we severely undercoached them. The corners were always 10 yards off the ball since they had no safety help either and we ended up playing this soft zone all last year.

Finally, the players seemed to give up on the scheme because the results on the field were so crappy.

I really think that talent wise our defense was good last year, but now we have a lot more depth. Add in a scheme that the players can buy into and put up results and you have a much improved defense. Hell, we actually gameplanned to stop the pass against Miami at the expense of the run (according to Kubes) and we actually did it.

thunderkyss
09-20-2011, 08:04 AM
I personally think it was scheme last year. Our defense became very reactionary last year and was completely bend but don't break. I remember that it took Bush 12 weeks or so to call his first safety blitz with Pollard. We did nothing to protect the corners from getting torched and we severely undercoached them. The corners were always 10 yards off the ball since they had no safety help either and we ended up playing this soft zone all last year.

Finally, the players seemed to give up on the scheme because the results on the field were so crappy.

I really think that talent wise our defense was good last year, but now we have a lot more depth. Add in a scheme that the players can buy into and put up results and you have a much improved defense. Hell, we actually gameplanned to stop the pass against Miami at the expense of the run (according to Kubes) and we actually did it.

I completely agree. They were so scared of getting burned that they played a prevent defense as their base D... you can't win like that. You can barely hold on to a lead like that.

They simply didn't trust their players & they rode that horse to the ground.

Texans_Chick
09-20-2011, 09:57 AM
The first year the Texans were looking for a defensive coordinator, there weren't a ton of great options.

When they hired Frank Bush, there still weren't a ton of great options, especially if you want to stick with the 4-3 which is what the Texans wanted to do.

If you go through my archives, it talks about some of the people who were made available to talk to and were being discussed. A pretty ick group.

Bob McNair sort of alluded to this as much as he is specific about anything behind closed doors--said that sometimes you have to be fortunate about whether coaches are available..something along those lines.

gary
09-20-2011, 11:13 AM
There any doubt in my mind that it was time to cut Pollard and Wilson, but how much of their poor play was due to the scheme last year?

gtexan02
09-20-2011, 11:26 AM
We wouldn't have JJ Watt if we had played better last year. I honestly believe he's one of the most important pieces on our new team.

I can't remember seeing more than one batted ball in a Texans game prior to him arriving. Sunday I saw multiple.

Drew Brees is 6'. He better put some arc on his throws

Section516
09-20-2011, 11:34 AM
We wouldn't have JJ Watt if we had played better last year. I honestly believe he's one of the most important pieces on our new team.

I can't remember seeing more than one batted ball in a Texans game prior to him arriving. Sunday I saw multiple.

Drew Brees is 6'. He better put some arc on his throws

Going to be interesting on how Watt/Smith play against the super-beefy NO guards.

welsh texan
09-20-2011, 11:36 AM
There any doubt in my mind that it was time to cut Pollard and Wilson, but how much of their poor play was due to the scheme last year?

Are you out of your mind?

The failings of Pollard and Wilson are one and the same with the failings of the OLD coaching staff.

Just be thankful that we haven't got Gary's mates coaching the Defense any more and we haven't got Pollard and Wilson being both incapable and put in a position to fail.

I don't see why you are stating the obvious in this thread? What point are you trying to make?

Surely you don't see there being any debate left to be had about last years secondary so why bring it up now?

We're 2-0, for now...things are on the up, just be thankful and stop bitching about the past.

ObsiWan
09-20-2011, 11:49 AM
So if this is indeed the year Kubiak and the team finally proves all of us wrong I think we will be asking, so what took so long to hire a proven DC which it looks like the Texans now seem to have in Wade Phillips? What do you guys think?

Until mid-season last year, Wade, who is among the best there is, had a job. When he became available, Bobby Mac went after him.

One could ask why we didn't snag Wade as soon as Jerruh cut him loose - after the second week in November. Remember, at the time we were 4-4 and maybe they thought the season wasn't lost ...yet.

But we all know that it's not Bobby Mac's style (nor Kubiak's) to make major changes mid-season.

Anyway, the gang's all here now. Here's hoping it marks the beginning of a long and fruitful relationship that yields a string of Lombardi trophies.

gary
09-20-2011, 01:20 PM
Are you out of your mind?

The failings of Pollard and Wilson are one and the same with the failings of the OLD coaching staff.

Just be thankful that we haven't got Gary's mates coaching the Defense any more and we haven't got Pollard and Wilson being both incapable and put in a position to fail.

I don't see why you are stating the obvious in this thread? What point are you trying to make?

Surely you don't see there being any debate left to be had about last years secondary so why bring it up now?

We're 2-0, for now...things are on the up, just be thankful and stop bitching about the past.WTF? I think you are the one overreacting to my basic question. Need a new pair of underwear?

welsh texan
09-20-2011, 02:18 PM
WTF? I think you are the one overreacting to my basic question. Need a new pair of underwear?

No need for the insults pal. Not very classy.

Anyway, I'm simply astounded that we've had the whole horrible off-season to discuss such things, Bob's 'on the right track' comments and all. We get off to great start and there are still people out there criticizing the organization, not because they made a decision, but because they didn't make that decision until the right person was available.

My guess is that Bob has allowed Smithiak to hire their mates from Denver until there was a proven assett out there who is better than what they could get in their network.

I'm happy because Kubiak is on a short leash. In pre-season we had this debate over and over again, I honestly don't see what benefit there is in raking it all over.

gary
09-20-2011, 02:45 PM
No need for the insults pal. Not very classy.

Anyway, I'm simply astounded that we've had the whole horrible off-season to discuss such things, Bob's 'on the right track' comments and all. We get off to great start and there are still people out there criticizing the organization, not because they made a decision, but because they didn't make that decision until the right person was available.

My guess is that Bob has allowed Smithiak to hire their mates from Denver until there was a proven assett out there who is better than what they could get in their network.

I'm happy because Kubiak is on a short leash. In pre-season we had this debate over and over again, I honestly don't see what benefit there is in raking it all over.No need to ask me if I am out of my mind either just because I asked a question. Is there? Anyway, we don't know who Bob really had his eye on a few years ago but maybe they just were not available at the time. At least for right now I am happy with this season overall and hope things continue to go well. Deep apologies for my insult towards you man.

gary
09-20-2011, 02:51 PM
Really? Neg rep for me. Get a life you are the one who first question me and said I was out of my mind Mr.

thunderkyss
09-20-2011, 04:33 PM
No need for the insults pal. Not very classy.


It's not an insult to ask a man who needs to change his shorts if he needs to change his shorts.

TimeKiller
09-20-2011, 06:46 PM
I think we will be asking, so what took so long to hire a proven DC?

They tried everyone else first?

Dread-Head
09-20-2011, 06:51 PM
Gary. Kid you forgot the FIRST rule of the playoffs! They're like Fight Club! You're not supposed to TALK about 'em!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCXPde0rNo8

Dang. Why don't you talk about Project MAYHEM while you're at it!?

heymak
09-20-2011, 08:19 PM
Gary. Kid you forgot the FIRST rule of the playoffs! They're like Fight Club! You're not supposed to TALK about 'em!
......
Dang. Why don't you talk about Project MAYHEM while you're at it!?

Amen, I think we need at least 8 more wins before we start worrying about this.

nytexan
09-20-2011, 08:55 PM
Personally I think what Wade and his defensive coaches have instilled is confidence in the returning players. Which is huge in my opinion because of how bad this defense was last year. Having said that, let's look at the personnel moves. We won't touch on the scheme as of yet.

Manning and Quin are major upgrades at safety over Pollard Wilson.
JJ is a much better CB on one side and this years KJackson is much better than last years version.

Cushing is healthy and playing from day 1
Ryans is back if not 100% yet
Barwin is a huge upgrade over Diles
Mario is healthy and motivated

JJWatt is a huge upgrade over Okoye
Smith is playing well and motivated
Mitchell/Cody is probably a wash right now.

I see 7 major upgrades position wise over last years squad. This isn't the same defense as last year. I remember saying after the draft that Philips was going to install a shock and awe defense and he has held up his end of the bargain. We keep talking how this is the year for Kubiak to pony up but this is also a year for Philips to regain his coaching reputation too and he appears to be having fun doing so.

gary
09-20-2011, 10:42 PM
They don't even have a great run stopping NT yet. I look for them to draft one in April.

thunderkyss
09-21-2011, 09:42 AM
They don't even have a great run stopping NT yet. I look for them to draft one in April.

I think we need to give up on that.

If anything, we'll get somebody like Suh (if there were such a thing) a penetrator the way Amobi was supposed to be.

The goal is to get after the QB. Get in the back field, cause havoc. We don't want a 2 gapper, we want a 3 tech.