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Heath Shuler
09-15-2011, 08:42 PM
NFL wants pat downs from ankles up at all stadiums

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2011/09/nfl-orders-ankles-up-frisks-for-16-million-fans-enterting-stadiums-security-buffalo-bills/1?loc=interstitialskip


The NFL wants all fans patted down from the ankles up this season to improve fan safety.


Previously, security guards only patted down fans from the waist up before gaining entry to NFL stadiums. Under the new "enhanced" pat-down procedures, the NFL wants all 32 clubs to search fans from ankles to the knees as well as the waist up.


better get to the stadium early folks

Texan_Bill
09-15-2011, 09:09 PM
I'm going through the "Ladies" line. Much better frisked by a female than a male!!

TheDrifter
09-15-2011, 09:10 PM
I'm going through the "Ladies" line. Much better frisked by a female than a male!!

Do you have the legs to pull off the skirt?

Speedy
09-15-2011, 10:28 PM
This is dumb. Where else do they do this? I know they don't do it at Astros games. I seriously doubt they do it at college games, though I've only been to a few. They don't pat you down at Rockets games, I just don't freaking get the NFL sometimes.

The patdowns they were doing were already a waste of everyone's time (the fans & employees) because they barely freaking touched you anyway.

And what's the purpose of the patdown? What are they looking for? A weapon? I wear an authentic Texans helmet to every game. That can't be used as a weapon? What about the guy with the helmet with horns sticking out of it? Are they going to tell us we can't wear any of that stuff any more next? In to mixed martial arts? Sorry fella, you're too dangerous to be at an NFL game.

The NFL has become a paranoid bunch of jackhole wussies.

The Cush
09-15-2011, 10:32 PM
This is dumb. Where else do they do this? I know they don't do it at Astros games. I seriously doubt they do it at college games, though I've only been to a few. They don't pat you down at Rockets games, I just don't freaking get the NFL sometimes.

The patdowns they were doing were already a waste of everyone's time (the fans & employees) because they barely freaking touched you anyway.

And what's the purpose of the patdown? What are they looking for? A weapon? I wear an authentic Texans helmet to every game. That can't be used as a weapon? What about the guy with the helmet with horns sticking out of it? Are they going to tell us we can't wear any of that stuff any more next? In to mixed martial arts? Sorry fella, you're too dangerous to be at an NFL game.

The NFL has become a paranoid bunch of jackhole wussies.

You can blame the Jets for allowing a guy with a taser strapped to his waist to stroll right on in and use it on people

Wolf
09-15-2011, 10:33 PM
After the taser incident, you know they were going to do something

Speedy
09-15-2011, 10:41 PM
You can blame the Jets for allowing a guy with a taser strapped to his waist to stroll right on in and use it on people

Oh yeah, I know it's because of a few idiots out there that F it up for everybody, but that still doesn't explain why the NFL is the only league in this country to do patdowns at games. Just assuming they don't, that is. Do they do them at the big college 100,000 seat stadiums? That I don't know. I do know they don't do them for 81 Astros games or 41 Rockets games, or Aeros games, Cougars, Owls, TSU, Dynamo, all the high school games around and so on.

Carr Bombed
09-15-2011, 10:57 PM
Leave it to a douche bag Cowboys fan to **** things up for everyone. First our tailgating and now this. :bat: If I can't get my liquor into the game with my dummy binoculars there will be hell to pay.....hell I tell ya.

gwallaia
09-15-2011, 11:13 PM
I'm going through the "Ladies" line. Much better frisked by a female than a male!!

Have you seen the "female" friskers at Reliant Bill?

NitroGSXR
09-15-2011, 11:30 PM
Hell yes!!!! 10000% in favor!!!!!!

Corrosion
09-16-2011, 12:56 AM
You can blame the Jets for allowing a guy with a taser strapped to his waist to stroll right on in and use it on people

You can blame the sponsors and supporters of the Patriot act ....

You can blame the TSA ....

All these pat-downs do is infringe upon the liberty of those who arent doing wrong.

The guy who's doing wrong is still going to find a way to get around it .... bastard may keister a non-metallic shank and stab his victim(s) .... what good was that pat down ?

TexanSam
09-16-2011, 01:06 AM
Leave it to a douche bag Cowboys fan to **** things up for everyone. First our tailgating and now this. :bat: If I can't get my liquor into the game with my dummy binoculars there will be hell to pay.....hell I tell ya.

What did they do about tailgating?

NitroGSXR
09-16-2011, 01:13 AM
You can blame the sponsors and supporters of the Patriot act ....

You can blame the TSA ....

All these pat-downs do is infringe upon the liberty of those who arent doing wrong.

The guy who's doing wrong is still going to find a way to get around it .... bastard may keister a non-metallic shank and stab his victim(s) .... what good was that pat down ?

Yeah, blame the Patriot act and the TSA, not the criminals themselves.

:kitten:

No wonder this country's gone batshit...

Corrosion
09-16-2011, 03:20 AM
Yeah, blame the Patriot act and the TSA, not the criminals themselves.

:kitten:

No wonder this country's gone batshit...

I think you mis-interpreted my post ....Let me clarify.

First , the Patriot Act and TSA laid the groundwork for society to think its OK to infringe upon the liberty of individuals to catch a crook. Its not OK. These laws and actions are unquestionably unconstitutional.

I dont blame the patriot act for the actions of the criminal - I just state that those things will not deter criminal activity. They only inconvenience those law abiding citizens who have to go thru the indignity of being groped during these pat downs.


If a terrorist wants to blow up a plane now , he simply keisters his explosives .... whats it matter to him , he's gonna die anyway.

He (the terrorist) opts to go thru the pat down rather than the full body scanner .... and board the plane with his explosives.

All of the rest of the passengers suffer the indignity of either form of search .... doesnt matter which and board the plane.

Mr Terrorist goes and takes a dump ... the plane explodes.

What good did it do those passengers on that plane to give up their liberty in the name of safety ? Absolutely none - they die right along with the terrorist.
Not only do they die but they suffer the indignity of the search in the process - they got neither liberty or safety.


Pat downs from the ankes up - Hey , Im wearing hollow heeled boots and Im gonna stick my deadly lil pea shooter in the heel ....


The problem here is that we believe things like this will deter criminal activity - Simple truth is it doesnt .... why do you think we have ~150k people serving time in Texas prisons.


We have to find alternative ways to stop crime while not infringing upon the rights and liberty of law abiding citizens.

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

SheTexan
09-16-2011, 03:57 AM
If they start doing what they did at the SB we had here in 2002 we might as well forget about tailgating, or the first quarter of the football game. It took HOURS to get through security, and they were relentless. They had huge barrels by every gate and you had to ditch whatever it was they didn't want you to have. I had to ditch a simple clippie and a small comb. I realize that was right after 9-11-01, but, man, if was awful!!

The security check they do now is laughable, pointless, and a total waste of time, and patting you down from the ankles up is just dumb. I bet you anything that guy with the taser didn't have it in his boot!!

Txn_in_FL
09-16-2011, 05:14 AM
It's just like the Marines. One person will always jack things up for the majority when it comes to the possibility of someone of higher "authority" being held accountable. If it happens again the NFL and the team can say "Hey, it's not our fault, we're checking people out."

If they stand by a do nothing the next time they might get sued, and we wouldn't want that to happen would we...

:kitten:

drunkcookie
09-16-2011, 07:56 AM
I think you mis-interpreted my post ....Let me clarify.

First , the Patriot Act and TSA laid the groundwork for society to think its OK to infringe upon the liberty of individuals to catch a crook. Its not OK. These laws and actions are unquestionably unconstitutional.

I dont blame the patriot act for the actions of the criminal - I just state that those things will not deter criminal activity. They only inconvenience those law abiding citizens who have to go thru the indignity of being groped during these pat downs.


If a terrorist wants to blow up a plane now , he simply keisters his explosives .... whats it matter to him , he's gonna die anyway.

He (the terrorist) opts to go thru the pat down rather than the full body scanner .... and board the plane with his explosives.

All of the rest of the passengers suffer the indignity of either form of search .... doesnt matter which and board the plane.

Mr Terrorist goes and takes a dump ... the plane explodes.

What good did it do those passengers on that plane to give up their liberty in the name of safety ? Absolutely none - they die right along with the terrorist.
Not only do they die but they suffer the indignity of the search in the process - they got neither liberty or safety.


Pat downs from the ankes up - Hey , Im wearing hollow heeled boots and Im gonna stick my deadly lil pea shooter in the heel ....


The problem here is that we believe things like this will deter criminal activity - Simple truth is it doesnt .... why do you think we have ~150k people serving time in Texas prisons.


We have to find alternative ways to stop crime while not infringing upon the rights and liberty of law abiding citizens.

Preach! Rep!

Corrosion
09-16-2011, 08:04 AM
Preach! Rep!

Thanks for the rep .....I quote Jefferson quite often. The man was brilliant.

And I did (Kinda) go with Mr.$100 Bill too ....


they got neither liberty or safety.



Not an exact quote but it gets the same point across ....


Its nice to see that some people do understand and appreciate the efforts of those who attempt to spread the message.

Txn_in_FL
09-16-2011, 08:04 AM
I think you mis-interpreted my post ....Let me clarify.

First , the Patriot Act and TSA laid the groundwork for society to think its OK to infringe upon the liberty of individuals to catch a crook. Its not OK. These laws and actions are unquestionably unconstitutional.

I dont blame the patriot act for the actions of the criminal - I just state that those things will not deter criminal activity. They only inconvenience those law abiding citizens who have to go thru the indignity of being groped during these pat downs.


If a terrorist wants to blow up a plane now , he simply keisters his explosives .... whats it matter to him , he's gonna die anyway.

He (the terrorist) opts to go thru the pat down rather than the full body scanner .... and board the plane with his explosives.

All of the rest of the passengers suffer the indignity of either form of search .... doesnt matter which and board the plane.

Mr Terrorist goes and takes a dump ... the plane explodes.

What good did it do those passengers on that plane to give up their liberty in the name of safety ? Absolutely none - they die right along with the terrorist.
Not only do they die but they suffer the indignity of the search in the process - they got neither liberty or safety.


Pat downs from the ankes up - Hey , Im wearing hollow heeled boots and Im gonna stick my deadly lil pea shooter in the heel ....


The problem here is that we believe things like this will deter criminal activity - Simple truth is it doesnt .... why do you think we have ~150k people serving time in Texas prisons.


We have to find alternative ways to stop crime while not infringing upon the rights and liberty of law abiding citizens.

It' not about you and it sure isn't about caring about your safety. It's all about ass cover. What can I do to make sure I don't get sued?

hobie
09-16-2011, 08:09 AM
Hell, I wear shorts 95% of the time. Whatever !

Corrosion
09-16-2011, 08:24 AM
It' not about you and it sure isn't about caring about your safety. It's all about ass cover. What can I do to make sure I don't get sued?

They made it about me and any other individual who passes thru those pat down lines when they made the decision to do it.

Ok , think about this - Compare the situation to the TSA which it pretty much mirrors.

How many lawsuits have come about over the TSA ????

This doesnt close the door on lawsuits any more than it does people behaving badly ..... Hell , it just invites a different type of lawsuit and a different form of people behaving like idiots.

This is just another over reaction by our society to an unfortunate event perpetrated by an individual .....

Compare it to AZ's immigration law - Anyone who frequents the NSZ knows I detest illegal immigration and Im always searching for solutions ... yet if the AZ law infringes upon the liberty of a single US Citizen - It Has Gone Too Far.
At one time I supported the AZ law until I considered how it could impact citizens. I do applaud their efforts to "Annoy the feds" into doing their jobs in defending our border ..... but again , their bill isnt a good one.

If your liberty is at stake .... so is mine.

(this thread almost belongs in the NSZ) :chickendance:

XI CMURDER IX
09-16-2011, 08:25 AM
Have you seen the "female" friskers at Reliant Bill?

There was a pretty hot one at the South Gate entrance last time for the Colts game! :kitten:

TEXANRED
09-16-2011, 08:46 AM
So do I need to inform my wife that she needs to give me a full body frisking before I make my way to the couch?

TimeKiller
09-16-2011, 08:54 AM
taht kcuf.

This is stupid. Turning stadiums into airports, just another reason to stay at home.

NitroGSXR
09-16-2011, 09:55 AM
I think you mis-interpreted my post ....Let me clarify.

First , the Patriot Act and TSA laid the groundwork for society to think its OK to infringe upon the liberty of individuals to catch a crook. Its not OK. These laws and actions are unquestionably unconstitutional.

I dont blame the patriot act for the actions of the criminal - I just state that those things will not deter criminal activity. They only inconvenience those law abiding citizens who have to go thru the indignity of being groped during these pat downs.


If a terrorist wants to blow up a plane now , he simply keisters his explosives .... whats it matter to him , he's gonna die anyway.

He (the terrorist) opts to go thru the pat down rather than the full body scanner .... and board the plane with his explosives.

All of the rest of the passengers suffer the indignity of either form of search .... doesnt matter which and board the plane.

Mr Terrorist goes and takes a dump ... the plane explodes.

What good did it do those passengers on that plane to give up their liberty in the name of safety ? Absolutely none - they die right along with the terrorist.
Not only do they die but they suffer the indignity of the search in the process - they got neither liberty or safety.


Pat downs from the ankes up - Hey , Im wearing hollow heeled boots and Im gonna stick my deadly lil pea shooter in the heel ....


The problem here is that we believe things like this will deter criminal activity - Simple truth is it doesnt .... why do you think we have ~150k people serving time in Texas prisons.


We have to find alternative ways to stop crime while not infringing upon the rights and liberty of law abiding citizens.

That's a really good post. I appreciated it. Thanks. I tried to rep but MSR.

Sure... there are some who are intent on it but there also hasn't been a single hijacked plane since 9/11. I can remember when they were hijacked often. Now we deal with morons like Richard Reid. The days of Joe Blow waking up in a bad mood are all but over.

infantrycak
09-16-2011, 10:07 AM
Good post Rob.

Slightly on topic but didn't want to start a new thread. Couldn't believe the afternoon crew from 610 yesterday when they said there were no pat downs or metal detectors at the games. Ya sure there are no metal detectors but where the F have you been? - since day one there have bee pat downs. Ineffective, stupid pat downs but yeah they have been doing them.

As to how ineffective they are, they check your waist and that is it. Hypothetically, wearing cargo pants you could have a snifter of whiskey in your pocket and they would never know it. Or a grenade. The whole exercise is stupid.

Section516
09-16-2011, 10:32 AM
As to how ineffective they are, they check your waist and that is it. Hypothetically, wearing cargo pants you could have a snifter of whiskey in your pocket and they would never know it. Or a grenade. The whole exercise is stupid.

This is what my Dad said last game. He figured there'd be increased security, but nope. Voices that three grenades in his pocket could take out a large chunk of people..

Ridiculous.

Corrosion
09-16-2011, 10:33 AM
That's a really good post. I appreciated it. Thanks. I tried to rep but MSR.

Sure... there are some who are intent on it but there also hasn't been a single hijacked plane since 9/11. I can remember when they were hijacked often. Now we deal with morons like Richard Reid. The days of Joe Blow waking up in a bad mood are all but over.

Has there been a single act of terrorism in the US that can be directly pinned on Al Queda ?


They made their point and we changed our way of life because of it in the form of the patriot act. They won the war right then and there .... even if we did end up killing OBL.

gtexan02
09-16-2011, 10:36 AM
I think pat downs should be eliminated and replaced with metal detectors.

A stadium is a terrorist attack waiting to happen. It has always made me nervous to know that I'm like a sardine in a giant can and there is virtually no screening going on. Plus, the idea is out there thanks to movies/books/tv shows.

It is minimal invasion of privacy/time. If they can do it at schools, they can do it at stadiums.

Corrosion
09-16-2011, 10:45 AM
I think pat downs should be eliminated and replaced with metal detectors.

A stadium is a terrorist attack waiting to happen. It has always made me nervous to know that I'm like a sardine in a giant can and there is virtually no screening going on. Plus, the idea is out there thanks to movies/books/tv shows.

It is minimal invasion of privacy/time. If they can do it at schools, they can do it at stadiums.

How bout a metal detector in conjunction with an explosive sniffing dog. No one goes thru the indignity of being groped or in the case of the TSA a full body scan and everyone is for the most part safe and secure.

Problem Solved.

Cant believe no one thought of that before ..... I guess stupid people are too stupid to think simple.

disaacks3
09-16-2011, 11:12 AM
Hell yes!!!! 10000% in favor!!!!!! Good for you, it's just slowing me down while STILL being ineffective. You can still stuff whatever in your boxers and that pat down is NEVER going to detect it.


Good post Rob.

Slightly on topic but didn't want to start a new thread. Couldn't believe the afternoon crew from 610 yesterday when they said there were no pat downs or metal detectors at the games. Ya sure there are no metal detectors but where the F have you been? - since day one there have bee pat downs. Ineffective, stupid pat downs but yeah they have been doing them.

As to how ineffective they are, they check your waist and that is it. Hypothetically, wearing cargo pants you could have a snifter of whiskey in your pocket and they would never know it. Or a grenade. The whole exercise is stupid. Yep, it may keep you from bringing that sawed-off shotgun down your leg, but not much else.


I appreciate the NFL "trying", but this particular song-and-dance is only about appearances, not substance.

gtexan02
09-16-2011, 11:15 AM
How bout a metal detector in conjunction with an explosive sniffing dog. No one goes thru the indignity of being groped or in the case of the TSA a full body scan and everyone is for the most part safe and secure.

Problem Solved.

Cant believe no one thought of that before ..... I guess stupid people are too stupid to think simple.

Sign me up. Easy, minimally invasive, fast

Texaninlild
09-16-2011, 11:18 AM
NFL wants pat downs from ankles up at all stadiums

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2011/09/nfl-orders-ankles-up-frisks-for-16-million-fans-enterting-stadiums-security-buffalo-bills/1?loc=interstitialskip




better get to the stadium early folks


So is it the customary $20 tip for this? I assume a happy ending is included!?

gary
09-16-2011, 11:22 AM
If you have better security ideas then let your voices be heard by letter or e-mail.

Double Barrel
09-16-2011, 11:30 AM
We can blame the individual, but the NFL is going to hold all fans accountable.

Typical mentality of modern society these days. Big Brother thanks you for your cooperation. [/slippery slope]

Corrosion
09-16-2011, 11:53 AM
[/slippery slope]

I'd like to go .... slippery slope hunting ... :hunter: :shoot:

Rey
09-16-2011, 12:35 PM
You can blame the sponsors and supporters of the Patriot act ....

You can blame the TSA ....

All these pat-downs do is infringe upon the liberty of those who arent doing wrong.

The guy who's doing wrong is still going to find a way to get around it .... bastard may keister a non-metallic shank and stab his victim(s) .... what good was that pat down ?

I hear what you are saying, but I don't think there is a definitive thing to do with this stuff.

If you take your statement at face value you could say, "why do anything the bad guys are going to get in with stuff regardless". The point is to make it harder for them to do so.

What point is too much? What is the breaking point where it becomes ridiculous?

I don't know. That's for the individual to decide. But if security measures ever become that big of a nusiance for me I'll just stop going to games/flying or whatever...

Corrosion
09-16-2011, 01:11 PM
I hear what you are saying, but I don't think there is a definitive thing to do with this stuff.

If you take your statement at face value you could say, "why do anything the bad guys are going to get in with stuff regardless". The point is to make it harder for them to do so.

What point is too much? What is the breaking point where it becomes ridiculous?

I don't know. That's for the individual to decide. But if security measures ever become that big of a nusiance for me I'll just stop going to games/flying or whatever...

If you continue reading thru my posts in this thread you will come to the conclusion that this is not what Im saying - My point is that they need to come up with alternatives that do not infringe upon the liberty of the innocent.

Gtexan02 and myself both came up with .... much better , less intrusive solutions than these pat downs.

Continue reading , might learn something from this thread.


I know , go ahead and tell me "if Im not doing anything wrong I have nothing to worry about"

NitroGSXR
09-16-2011, 01:37 PM
I hear what you are saying, but I don't think there is a definitive thing to do with this stuff.

If you take your statement at face value you could say, "why do anything the bad guys are going to get in with stuff regardless". The point is to make it harder for them to do so.

What point is too much? What is the breaking point where it becomes ridiculous?

I don't know. That's for the individual to decide. But if security measures ever become that big of a nusiance for me I'll just stop going to games/flying or whatever...

This is EXACTLY where I am at. Being at Reliant on the 10 year anniversary of 9/11 was sickening for me. When I say sickening... I mean that... I was literally sick to my stomach in fear of an attack. It is not a matter of how but WHEN and WHERE. Especially considering how stupid easy it is to sneak stuff in. I was commenting to my wife exactly that when we passed the checkpoint. I was appalled. I don't even think the seceurity guy touched me AT ALL. TOO SUPERFICIAL!

Solution? Damn if I know...

drunkcookie
09-16-2011, 01:46 PM
Corrosion, I just looked at Twitter and someone tweeted this:

Concern is one thing, and hysteria is another. Hysteria impels people to destroy the very thing they are struggling to preserve ~ Truman

Anyhoo, it's the NFL, which is in the private sector... Though I do not agree with it in the sense that it will deter people who are truely hell-bent on doing something that bad, and that in reality all it does is mess with people who aren't going to do anything, it is their right to do so (unless they bring in the government to do it, or the government decides to do it themselves)....

woollybully
09-16-2011, 02:37 PM
This is EXACTLY where I am at. Being at Reliant on the 10 year anniversary of 9/11 was sickening for me. When I say sickening... I mean that... I was literally sick to my stomach in fear of an attack. It is not a matter of how but WHEN and WHERE. Especially considering how stupid easy it is to sneak stuff in. I was commenting to my wife exactly that when we passed the checkpoint. I was appalled. I don't even think the seceurity guy touched me AT ALL. TOO SUPERFICIAL!

Solution? Damn if I know...

Nitro, is that you on the GSXR with no leathers? I assume that your NitroGSXR nickname means you've outfitted your GSXR with Nitrous Oxide? And you're worried about terrorists?

Security is about using common sense. If you see someone misusing a weapon, take them out.

This McKelvey guy at the Jets game got arrested and will likely go to prison. Seems like society worked to me.

Rey
09-16-2011, 02:57 PM
If you continue reading thru my posts in this thread you will come to the conclusion that this is not what Im saying - My point is that they need to come up with alternatives that do not infringe upon the liberty of the innocent.

Gtexan02 and myself both came up with .... much better , less intrusive solutions than these pat downs.

Continue reading , might learn something from this thread.


I know , go ahead and tell me "if Im not doing anything wrong I have nothing to worry about"

Slow down with the condescension.

I read you and Gtexans suggestions. They might be less intrusive, but there are non-metal items that can be used as weapons. But besides that, according to your basic premise, there is no point in metal detectors because the people that want to do wrong will find a way around that as well.

That line of thinking is flawed to me because the point is to make it harder on people to get away with bad deeds. Much like a lock on your house or an alarm system. The better the alarm system and security the harder it is for someone to break in. Impossible? No. But it makes it much more difficult for your run of the mill criminal.

Besides all of that, I didn't even disagree with your post and I said deciding when too much os too much is a personal decision. No one forces you to go to a game and flying on a plane is not a right.

If it's too much for you don't go because I know that if it gets to a point where I personally deem it to be a hassle I'm not going anymore. Money talks. If the NFL starts losing money because fans don't want to go through the security process then they will scale back. Until that time it's just something that is going to elevate your blood pressure.

NitroGSXR
09-16-2011, 03:01 PM
Nitro, is that you on the GSXR with no leathers? I assume that your NitroGSXR nickname means you've outfitted your GSXR with Nitrous Oxide? And you're worried about terrorists?

Security is about using common sense. If you see someone misusing a weapon, take them out.

This McKelvey guy at the Jets game got arrested and will likely go to prison. Seems like society worked to me.

And that's my 9yr old son on the back. I have also taken him around the track. I am obviously am more comfortable with that than being stacked in a sardine can.

I really liked the Truman quote. It doesn't apply to me yet because I still take my family to the ballgames. Wherever and however our fate is... so be it but I will not be scared back into my home. Inconvienced as rey stated but it doesn't mean I'm not scared out there because I am. Common sense has no bearing here. Its out of my control once somebody else makes that decision for me. I just hope its the gubernet rather than McVeigh.

FYI, we wear gear all the time. It was my son and mine's very very first ride around the block together. Frown at me if you want but it wasn't as bad as you're thinking.

NitroGSXR
09-16-2011, 03:05 PM
Slow down with the condescension.

I read you and Gtexans suggestions. They might be less intrusive, but there are non-metal items that can be used as weapons. But besides that, according to your basic premise, there is no point in metal detectors because the people that want to do wrong will find a way around that as well.

That line of thinking is flawed to me because the point is to make it harder on people to get away with bad deeds. Much like a lock on your house or an alarm system. The better the alarm system and security the harder it is for someone to break in. Impossible? No. But it makes it much more difficult for your run of the mill criminal.

Besides all of that, I didn't even disagree with your post and I said deciding when too much os too much is a personal decision. No one forces you to go to a game and flying on a plane is not a right.

If it's too much for you don't go because I know that if it gets to a point where I personally deem it to be a hassle I'm not going anymore. Money talks. If the NFL starts losing money because fans don't want to go through the security process then they will scale back. Until that time it's just something that is going to elevate your blood pressure.

Spot on. Yet we are the ones that corrosion and others are getting mad at.

Rey
09-16-2011, 03:31 PM
Spot on. Yet we are the ones that corrosion and others are getting mad at.

I don't understand the hostility towards what we are saying...

It is completely fair to ask "how much is too much", but at the same time it should be ok to ask "how much is too little"....

infantrycak
09-16-2011, 04:03 PM
I don't understand the hostility towards what we are saying...

It is completely fair to ask "how much is too much", but at the same time it should be ok to ask "how much is too little"....

Honest, non-condescending question - have you been to a Texans game? Everyone is held up for a 100% useless pat down. I made a joke above but it is true. I have worn shorts with cargo pockets into the stadium on well basically every game. Never have they been inspected. What good is it to have people look under your hat if you don't check their cargo pockets when they have grenade sized (or let's say flask sized) objects in them? It is intrusion without purpose. I wouldn't mind passing through a metal detector but the crap they do now makes nobody safer. I guaranty I can get a pistol or 2 lbs of C4 into Reliant any weekend I want.

woollybully
09-16-2011, 04:36 PM
And that's my 9yr old son on the back. I have also taken him around the track. I am obviously am more comfortable with that than being stacked in a sardine can.

I really liked the Truman quote. It doesn't apply to me yet because I still take my family to the ballgames. Wherever and however our fate is... so be it but I will not be scared back into my home. Inconvienced as rey stated but it doesn't mean I'm not scared out there because I am. Common sense has no bearing here. Its out of my control once somebody else makes that decision for me. I just hope its the gubernet rather than McVeigh.

FYI, we wear gear all the time. It was my son and mine's very very first ride around the block together. Frown at me if you want but it wasn't as bad as you're thinking.

I'm not frowning...I don't always gear up either for quick trips. As you said, you are not scared because you are in control and it's the irrational fear of what's out of our control that allows us to be pushed around because it makes us "feel" safer. But there has to be a line where we push back and say enough is enough. Me and many others think we are already beyond that line.

disaacks3
09-16-2011, 04:40 PM
I don't understand the hostility towards what we are saying...

It is completely fair to ask "how much is too much", but at the same time it should be ok to ask "how much is too little"....

Ask another question, what is effective and what isn't? Obviously, the NFL "brain trust" thought the silly pat-downs they had before were effective...they were wrong. Their "new and improved" method will be just as ineffective against the very event that triggered it.

I don't like to be "delayed" anymore than the next person, but if you're going to slow me down, at least do something effective!

Corrosion
09-16-2011, 04:44 PM
Slow down with the condescension.

I read you and Gtexans suggestions. They might be less intrusive, but there are non-metal items that can be used as weapons. But besides that, according to your basic premise, there is no point in metal detectors because the people that want to do wrong will find a way around that as well.

You can use car keys as a weapon , hell I could use my shoe laces as a weapon. Like others have said above , they wear helmets , those could be used as weapons. How bout a pair of steel toed boots , what about a belt ? .... are we going to ban all those items?


So they might use non metallic items (I pointed that out above) .... they arent even checking peoples shoes. Easy to stash a non metallic shank in a shoe.

Even if you strip searched every individual who entered that facility , a weapon could still be smuggled in.



That line of thinking is flawed to me because the point is to make it harder on people to get away with bad deeds. Much like a lock on your house or an alarm system. The better the alarm system and security the harder it is for someone to break in. Impossible? No. But it makes it much more difficult for your run of the mill criminal.

We shouldnt inconvenience everyone just to make it more difficult for criminals to commit crimes - The law is the deterent, the threat of spending time in jail or whatever the penalty might be..

We assume everyone innocent until proven guilty. We do not punish society for crimes they might commit , only those that they do commit.

The real problem .... only the criminals carry weapons where they shouldnt while the law abiding citizen is un-armed and an easy target.



Besides all of that, I didn't even disagree with your post and I said deciding when too much os too much is a personal decision. No one forces you to go to a game and flying on a plane is not a right.

If it's too much for you don't go because I know that if it gets to a point where I personally deem it to be a hassle I'm not going anymore. Money talks. If the NFL starts losing money because fans don't want to go through the security process then they will scale back. Until that time it's just something that is going to elevate your blood pressure.

I do agree with the "when's enough enough" Im just pointing out that enough is when individual liberty is infringed upon.

I gave up my PSL's when Capers went 2-14 and got himself fired ..... havent had to deal with it since. :chickendance:


I didnt mean to come off as condescending ....


Spot on. Yet we are the ones that corrosion and others are getting mad at.

Im not mad at all .... just telling it how it is.

Rey
09-16-2011, 05:05 PM
Honest, non-condescending question - have you been to a Texans game? Everyone is held up for a 100% useless pat down. I made a joke above but it is true. I have worn shorts with cargo pockets into the stadium on well basically every game. Never have they been inspected. What good is it to have people look under your hat if you don't check their cargo pockets when they have grenade sized (or let's say flask sized) objects in them? It is intrusion without purpose. I wouldn't mind passing through a metal detector but the crap they do now makes nobody safer. I guaranty I can get a pistol or 2 lbs of C4 into Reliant any weekend I want.

Me and my wife have half season tickets that we share with another couple so I normally attend 5 games (1 preseason) per year. And honestly, I don't think I've been patted down every time I've gone. Maybe I just don't remember because it was so quick.

But I have a question for you. Do you think that the appearance of safety measures can sometimes deter certain crimes?

I've seen fake video cameras, signs that say beware of dog when there is no dog, security officers whose best weapon is a whistle, fake car alarms that ate really just blinking lights, ect. I don't think any of those things in themselves actually do anything, but I do think the mere appearance can sometimes make petty criminals think twice or completely deter some from committing a crime.

I have not seen any full proof methods for stopping crimes. And in no way am I arguing against metal detectors. That would actually be a good idea and I could've sworn I've been through one a time or two. (I've been going to my brothers game sfa vs Sam Houston for the past few years so maybe I'm getting things mixed up)

But my main point is that if it bothers someone that much, just don't go. Other than that I'm not exactly sure what you can do about it besides get upset.

I'm not even saying anyone is wrong here. Well at least it's not what I'm trying to do. I'm not trying to offend anyone or anything. Just throwing some of my views out there.

NitroGSXR
09-16-2011, 05:08 PM
You can use car keys as a weapon , hell I could use my shoe laces as a weapon. Like others have said above , they wear helmets , those could be used as weapons. How bout a pair of steel toed boots , what about a belt ? .... are we going to ban all those items?


So they might use non metallic items (I pointed that out above) .... they arent even checking peoples shoes. Easy to stash a non metallic shank in a shoe.

Even if you strip searched every individual who entered that facility , a weapon could still be smuggled in.





We shouldnt inconvenience everyone just to make it more difficult for criminals to commit crimes - The law is the deterent, the threat of spending time in jail or whatever the penalty might be..

We assume everyone innocent until proven guilty. We do not punish society for crimes they might commit , only those that they do commit.

The real problem .... only the criminals carry weapons where they shouldnt while the law abiding citizen is un-armed and an easy target.




I do agree with the "when's enough enough" Im just pointing out that enough is when individual liberty is infringed upon.

I gave up my PSL's when Capers went 2-14 and got himself fired ..... havent had to deal with it since. :chickendance:


I didnt mean to come off as condescending ....




Im not mad at all .... just telling it how it is.

Let me try another angle... shoplifting. We ALL pay for that in everything we buy. Prices are raised to offset the losses. Its not fair to us but it is a part of how we deal with crime. Patdowns are now falling in that category. Infantry glazed over my post and asked rey the question of whether or not if he's been to a game. He knows I have. I am also banging the drum that what they are doing now is useless. I believe the TSA overstepped their boundaries and made a private enterprise "concerned" with overstepping their boundaries. They need to either pat us down better, bring in some detectors, bomb-sniffing dogs, increase undercover security, etc etc. Whatever it takes to take the edge off. The sight of patdowns alone is enough for me to want to rethink what I have in my pants. I double-check what I have in my pockets before entering the stadium. In other words, the patdowns make me think a little harder before entering a place full of inebriated folks. I am in favor of this program because everybody in this thread keeps pointing to their "cargo shorts". Well... no more.

FYI, I am extremely pro-death penalty. I am so extreme that I could approve its use in certain minor crimes such as repetive shoplifting for example. In other words, heck yeah... beef up our jails. I've spent a night or two in there (no I'm not a criminal). 3 hots and a cot ain't all so bad.

woollybully
09-16-2011, 05:12 PM
Me and my wife have half season tickets that we share with another couple so I normally attend 5 games (1 preseason) per year. And honestly, I don't think I've been patted down every time I've gone. Maybe I just don't remember because it was so quick.

But I have a question for you. Do you think that the appearance of safety measures can sometimes deter certain crimes?

I've seen fake video cameras, signs that say beware of dog when there is no dog, security officers whose best weapon is a whistle, fake car alarms that ate really just blinking lights, ect. I don't think any of those things in themselves actually do anything, but I do think the mere appearance can sometimes make petty criminals think twice or completely deter some from committing a crime.

I have not seen any full proof methods for stopping crimes. And in no way am I arguing against metal detectors. That would actually be a good idea and I could've sworn I've been through one a time or two. (I've been going to my brothers game sfa vs Sam Houston for the past few years so maybe I'm getting things mixed up)

But my main point is that if it bothers someone that much, just don't go. Other than that I'm not exactly sure what you can do about it besides get upset.

I'm not even saying anyone is wrong here. Well at least it's not what I'm trying to do. I'm not trying to offend anyone or anything. Just throwing some of my views out there.

All it takes from a criminal is to watch one pat-down from the distance to know it's worthless and get anything they want into a game. Cameras don't deter criminals or there wouldn't be any videos of criminals in the act.

What stops most of us is is morality and empathy. What stops criminals is consequences (deterrence). If a criminal knows that stirring up trouble in Reliant means that he gets the snot kicked out of him by the rest of us, then he is not likely to stir up trouble.

Rey
09-16-2011, 05:18 PM
You can use car keys as a weapon , hell I could use my shoe laces as a weapon. Like others have said above , they wear helmets , those could be used as weapons. How bout a pair of steel toed boots , what about a belt ? .... are we going to ban all those items?


So they might use non metallic items (I pointed that out above) .... they arent even checking peoples shoes. Easy to stash a non metallic shank in a shoe.

Even if you strip searched every individual who entered that facility , a weapon could still be smuggled in.





We shouldnt inconvenience everyone just to make it more difficult for criminals to commit crimes - The law is the deterent, the threat of spending time in jail or whatever the penalty might be..

We assume everyone innocent until proven guilty. We do not punish society for crimes they might commit , only those that they do commit.

The real problem .... only the criminals carry weapons where they shouldnt while the law abiding citizen is un-armed and an easy target.




I do agree with the "when's enough enough" Im just pointing out that enough is when individual liberty is infringed upon.

I gave up my PSL's when Capers went 2-14 and got himself fired ..... havent had to deal with it since. :chickendance:


I didnt mean to come off as condescending ....




Im not mad at all .... just telling it how it is.

I do not disagree with anything you say here. But for me it is not that cut and dry. I agree that the government shouldn't infringe on certain rights in the name of protection. I agree that some criminals will be criminals regardless of security measures put in place.

What I am saying is that we have options. Sometimes those options are less appealing, but I was always taught to fight, claw and scratch for my beliefs.

If more people did that then society as a whole would have more power.

Personally, the pat downs are not enough to stop me from going to the games. But if there was ever a time I thought it got ridiculous, I wouldn't go. I will die for my beliefs if it came down to it, so I have no problem at all with not attending a game if I felt the need to.

NitroGSXR
09-16-2011, 05:20 PM
Ask another question, what is effective and what isn't? Obviously, the NFL "brain trust" thought the silly pat-downs they had before were effective...they were wrong. Their "new and improved" method will be just as ineffective against the very event that triggered it.

I don't like to be "delayed" anymore than the next person, but if you're going to slow me down, at least do something effective!

I can't agree with you any more. Thing is... I'm the one who gets labeled sheeple because I want more security than what we've been getting now. There have been high school games that are harder to get into than Reliant. ALL of us recognizes what's there now isn't ideal. Maybe private entities aren't allowed to molest TSA style? I don't know how to fix this but we are all on the same page. I think an illusion is at least something.

Rey
09-16-2011, 05:26 PM
Ask another question, what is effective and what isn't? Obviously, the NFL "brain trust" thought the silly pat-downs they had before were effective...they were wrong. Their "new and improved" method will be just as ineffective against the very event that triggered it.

I don't like to be "delayed" anymore than the next person, but if you're going to slow me down, at least do something effective!

Depends on your definition of effective. If you are saying that effective should equal = 100% success then no it's not effective. But then again, what security measure has been effective in that sense?

And I'm not playing stupid. I get what you and others are saying. But, I've seen or heard of highly elaborate security measures being overcome by highly elaborate criminals.

There is a such thing as overkill though and a head to toe pat down doesn't fit the description IMO.

Is it the most effective measure? Probably not. Is it the most efficient? Probably not?

Is it totally useless? I don't think it is and I suspect that's where we probably differ.

texanhead08
09-17-2011, 01:38 PM
Toyota Center- No patdowns at Rockets or Aeros games only for concerts.

Minute Maid Park- No patdowns at Astros games

UH- No patdowns at any event I have been to there and that includes football,baseball.basketball,softball, andd volleyball.

Rice- No patdowns at football or basketball games.

Woodlands Pavilion- They do patdowns at every event I have been to there.

HJam72
09-17-2011, 04:07 PM
The answer to this is to just hand out guns to everyone so we can kill the terrorists....and enemy fans... :whip:

...and free beer so we'll actually do it.

Sit in my seat, will ya?