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Texans_Chick
09-13-2011, 07:58 AM
I pulled together the video of the Danieal Manning call and then talk about it some in my blog:

Danieal Manning defenseless receiver penalty? You make the call. (http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/2011/09/danieal-manning-defenseless-receiver-penalty-you-make-the-call/)

He tried to pull up and still got penalized. He better not get fined or I'm starting jihad.

DBCooper
09-13-2011, 07:59 AM
I pulled together the video of the Danieal Manning call and then talk about it some in my blog:

Danieal Manning defenseless receiver penalty? You make the call. (http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/2011/09/danieal-manning-defenseless-receiver-penalty-you-make-the-call/)

He tried to pull up and still got penalized. He better not get fined or I'm starting jihad.

I hear ya Steph, bad call!

ObsiWan
09-13-2011, 08:07 AM
I pulled together the video of the Danieal Manning call and then talk about it some in my blog:

Danieal Manning defenseless receiver penalty? You make the call. (http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/2011/09/danieal-manning-defenseless-receiver-penalty-you-make-the-call/)

He tried to pull up and still got penalized. He better not get fined or I'm starting jihad.

If it happens, just let us know where to pick up our pitchforks and torches.

SheTexan
09-13-2011, 08:24 AM
BAD, BAD call!! It's a dumb rule, and I'm not sure the refs know what they are doing with it. Hopefully, Kubiak will make a big deal out of it and they will learn something after reviewing the clip.

I'm with you and all the others about the jihad! DON'T mess with our TEXANS!!!

Playoffs
09-13-2011, 08:30 AM
I agree.

Excellent video presentation, by the way. Texans should send a link to the NFL office.

That rule is too subjective for refs to make a snap judgement call on, IMO.

HJam72
09-13-2011, 08:33 AM
Bad rule.

Terrible call.

How much do these guys get paid to catch balls and take hits? I thought so. Stop babying the offensive players and trusting refs to do what they have proven for most of a century that they can't. This will become just as big an issue as the defensive pass interference (except that this one is unnecessary)....and it could ruin the game....until it's done away with.

TimeKiller
09-13-2011, 08:35 AM
Did someone say Jihad?!? I''m always down for a good jihad!

This call was bogus, I think probably 99.9% of people would say that after watching the replay. I mean this is like hitting the QB as he throws and getting a roughness penalty. Just weak. He didn't "hit" him, despite the unavoidable contact. Garcon wasn't looking for a penalty. He didn't launch himself, he didn't lead with the head, he didn't hit Garcon's head. Where is the foul? What specifically did he do? TOUCH him?!?

It really sank in how miserable of a call that was when I went home and watched football all day....and ALL DAY this same thing happened, deep pass, corner hits one side safety hits other and there was no flag for it ALL DAY. There was a hit on a San Fran TE where the guy left his feet, led with his helmet, hit the TE's head and there was NO CALL. THAT IS a penalty. Manning's foul.............................................n ot so much.

SAMURAITEXAN
09-13-2011, 08:37 AM
You are right TC it is indeed a bad call.

Blake
09-13-2011, 09:20 AM
I was in shock when they called that. Good thing we were up 34-0 at the time. That sort of BS call could ruin a teams season. I agree that the Texans need to send that in for review and say "WTF mate?"

Thorn
09-13-2011, 09:24 AM
Bad rule.

Terrible call.




Good rule.

Terrible call.

My two cents. :)

Texans_Chick
09-13-2011, 09:25 AM
I agree.

Excellent video presentation, by the way. Texans should send a link to the NFL office.

That rule is too subjective for refs to make a snap judgement call on, IMO.

Very low tech vid technique. Videotape my TV. Not elegant but quick. Figure some people will see the video without my article so I wanted to have some commentary in there. Also, I want to make sure that it is clear I am using this clip in a fair use way--for educational/editorial purposes.

Brisco_County
09-13-2011, 09:26 AM
I want to believe that it was just the officials shaking off some rust, and we would not see this by week three.

But it would be good to submit that video to the NFL to make them aware of how that call can go terribly wrong.

beerlover
09-13-2011, 09:30 AM
No fine just a bad call that took the letter of law too far.

prostock101
09-13-2011, 09:45 AM
PFT agrees it was a bad call. Soon these guys will be walking around in bubblewrap like the Michelin man.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/13/danieal-manning-avoids-defenseless-receiver-draws-flag-anyway/

Texans_Chick
09-13-2011, 09:52 AM
pft agrees it was a bad call. Soon these guys will be walking around in bubblewrap like the michelin man.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/13/danieal-manning-avoids-defenseless-receiver-draws-flag-anyway/

jihad unleashed!!!

Ole Miss Texan
09-13-2011, 09:54 AM
It was a bad call for sure. But what I really picked up from your video is what a GREAT play that was by Johnathan Joseph! Pierre Garcon had that for a TD and Joseph slapped it out of his hands before Garcon got possession.

eriadoc
09-13-2011, 09:54 AM
He tried to pull up. If he still gets fined, I want him to lay the hammer down. If you're going to pay the fine, do the crime. That is the unintended consequence that the NFL risks by not applying some common sense here.

Texans_Chick
09-13-2011, 09:56 AM
it was a bad call for sure. But what i really picked up from your video is what a great play that was by johnathan joseph! Pierre garcon had that for a td and joseph slapped it out of his hands before garcon got possession.

that's what gets me so mad!!! It was a great play by all!!! Flag!!!!! Aaaayyyyy!!!!

Texans_Chick
09-13-2011, 09:56 AM
that's what gets me so mad!!! It was a great play by all!!! Flag!!!!! Aaaayyyyy!!!!

I just realized that TT.com doesn't let you write in all caps. But imagine the above in all caps.

c10x
09-13-2011, 09:57 AM
At full speed, it did kind of look like the helmet could have been in on the hit. That's probably why it drew the penalty. In slow motion, and watching it over and over, its easy to see it wasn't... but refs only get one look at it, at full speed.

That's all I can come up with.

If what happened there is the correct call, then I simply don't know what to say.

The Cush
09-13-2011, 09:59 AM
It's the new age NFL what do you expect? 3 years from now those yellow flags the refs throw will be worn around all the players' waists and physical contact will be prohibited.

CloakNNNdagger
09-13-2011, 11:00 AM
I pulled together the video of the Danieal Manning call and then talk about it some in my blog:

Danieal Manning defenseless receiver penalty? You make the call. (http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/2011/09/danieal-manning-defenseless-receiver-penalty-you-make-the-call/)

He tried to pull up and still got penalized. He better not get fined or I'm starting jihad.

The human body has limitations as to how it can physically respond. Human players are not video game robots that can be controlled in terms millimeters and milliseconds. That is not even to mention that human ref's calls are also significantly impeded to interpretation................by their individual limitations of visual acuity............and brain capacity/function.

At best, the rule written as is belongs in Madden.............and, probably, more appropriately, in the NFL Archives of Failed Experiments.

drunkcookie
09-13-2011, 11:16 AM
I want to say it's a good rule, but when the rule leads to calls like this it makes me think that it's a bad rule...

GP
09-13-2011, 11:20 AM
I thought this rule was for when the ball was not going to be caught, such as the ball sailing way over the WRs head or the ball having already gone by the WR but the defender still hits the WR anyways.

This was as much of a bang-bang play as there ever will be. Joseph knocks the ball and in the same moment, or at least a fraction of a second later, Manning is in the motion of trying to hit Garcon in case he catches the ball.

I think the ref was amp'd up in the moment, seeing the Colts getting manhandled and thinking he needed to insert himself into the flow of the game.

TimeKiller
09-13-2011, 11:37 AM
I think the ref was amp'd up in the moment, seeing the Colts getting manhandled and thinking he needed to insert himself into the flow of the game.

It is a little odd that it was also the first time the Colts were threatening to score. Like a "here ya go for trying hard" blue ribbon.

Still a bad call though, I just really don't want this to morph into the NBA where refs have several call they can make on basically every play and they use the calls to shape the outcome. I think this type of penalty has that potential.

TexansFanatic
09-13-2011, 12:11 PM
Utterly ridiculous.

The NFL rules committee is really in danger of ruining its own product with this nonsense.

The new 35 yard line kickoff is another absurd change.

The Pencil Neck
09-13-2011, 12:18 PM
I thought this rule was for when the ball was not going to be caught, such as the ball sailing way over the WRs head or the ball having already gone by the WR but the defender still hits the WR anyways.

This was as much of a bang-bang play as there ever will be. Joseph knocks the ball and in the same moment, or at least a fraction of a second later, Manning is in the motion of trying to hit Garcon in case he catches the ball.

I think the ref was amp'd up in the moment, seeing the Colts getting manhandled and thinking he needed to insert himself into the flow of the game.

They changed the rules in the offseason. I posted a link to an official NFL video with Jeff Fisher explaining the rules changes a few weeks back.

The changes to the "defenseless receiver" rules make it so that if you touch the receiver at any point between him looking back for the ball and him catching it and beginning to run with it, the ref can throw the flag. It's absolutely ridiculous. According to the wording of the rule, hitting the guy to knock the ball out when he makes a catch can be flagged.

You can't leave your feet to launch yourself into him. Even if you lead with your shoulder, you'll be flagged.

If he's catching the ball, you can't touch him until he's got the ball and starting to run.

It's ridiculous.

And it's not going to be consistently applied.

GlassHalfFull
09-13-2011, 12:30 PM
They changed the rules in the offseason. I posted a link to an official NFL video with Jeff Fisher explaining the rules changes a few weeks back.

The changes to the "defenseless receiver" rules make it so that if you touch the receiver at any point between him looking back for the ball and him catching it and beginning to run with it, the ref can throw the flag. It's absolutely ridiculous. According to the wording of the rule, hitting the guy to knock the ball out when he makes a catch can be flagged.

You can't leave your feet to launch yourself into him. Even if you lead with your shoulder, you'll be flagged.

If he's catching the ball, you can't touch him until he's got the ball and starting to run.

It's ridiculous.

And it's not going to be consistently applied.

Yuk. Thanks for clarifying the rule change. I hadn't realized just how bad the rule had gotten.

I'll be right behind Obsiwan with my pitchfork.

badboy
09-13-2011, 12:32 PM
I am absolutely ok with the rule but not the call. In slow motion it appears a significant lapse time occurred befor the hit but in game time, imo not a flag. Ref should have had courage to ask for replay if posible or pick up the flag. In baseball, we yell for "hman error" but if football we demand replays. Good thing it did not effect the W.

rush2112mn
09-13-2011, 12:53 PM
I was sitting 3 rows up in the endzone watching that play coming straight at me. Bad Call ....that is all I have to say about that.......

Rey
09-13-2011, 12:55 PM
The human body has limitations as to how it can physically respond. Human players are not video game robots that can be controlled in terms millimeters and milliseconds. That is not even to mention that human ref's calls are also significantly impeded to interpretation................by their individual limitations of visual acuity............and brain capacity/function.

At best, the rule written as is belongs in Madden.............and, probably, more appropriately, in the NFL Archives of Failed Experiments.

Please keep that crap out of my game!!!

eriadoc
09-13-2011, 01:04 PM
They changed the rules in the offseason. I posted a link to an official NFL video with Jeff Fisher explaining the rules changes a few weeks back.

The changes to the "defenseless receiver" rules make it so that if you touch the receiver at any point between him looking back for the ball and him catching it and beginning to run with it, the ref can throw the flag. It's absolutely ridiculous. According to the wording of the rule, hitting the guy to knock the ball out when he makes a catch can be flagged.

You can't leave your feet to launch yourself into him. Even if you lead with your shoulder, you'll be flagged.

If he's catching the ball, you can't touch him until he's got the ball and starting to run.

It's ridiculous.

And it's not going to be consistently applied.

In that case, I want the players to lay the hammer down. If they're going to pay the fine anyway, I want them to knock some receivers out.

I'm reminded of the dress code rule in the NBA and the one player that basically handed them a blank check and told them to write whatever they wanted. At some point, mass rebellion is justified.

steelbtexan
09-13-2011, 11:34 PM
Somebody needs to start up a fire Goodell website.

His liberal views are ruining a great game.

I would hate for a WR to have to fear going across the middle. This makes me long for the days of Swann/Stallworth/Pearson/Collingsworth. Real men who went across the middle knowing the consequences.

Vinnie
09-13-2011, 11:52 PM
Somebody needs to start up a fire Goodell website.

His liberal views are ruining a great game.

I would hate for a WR to have to fear going across the middle. This makes me long for the days of Swann/Stallworth/Pearson/Collingsworth. Real men who went across the middle knowing the consequences.

Here ya go! Hope you have a profile, I don't do the facebook thing so I can't interact.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6990550228

bah007
09-14-2011, 02:05 PM
I've been harping on this stuff for so long that most of y'all are probably sick of me, but once again we see the outcome of the NFL structuring the rules to create a built in advantage for the offense.

I'll say up front, I do not blame the ref. What choice does the guy really have? Either call the game the way the NFL wants you to, or lose your job.

This rule has nothing to do with player safety. It is all about creating offense. If it was about player safety then we would see flags thrown when the same thing happens to defenseless defenders that get blocked on punt returns. But we don't see that because the league only cares about the saftey of offensive players, who create points and passing yards for the league, and thus profit.

gtexan02
09-14-2011, 03:28 PM
Somebody needs to start up a fire Goodell website.

His liberal views are ruining a great game.

I would hate for a WR to have to fear going across the middle. This makes me long for the days of Swann/Stallworth/Pearson/Collingsworth. Real men who went across the middle knowing the consequences.

:lol: oh brother

ChampionTexan
09-17-2011, 01:35 PM
The NFL responds (kind of)...

But we have some good news: The NFL has confirmed to PFT that Manning was not fined.

Although the NFL always avoids calling out the officials, not fining Manning is a tacit acknowledgment that the official who threw the flag on Manning screwed up. If Manning’s hit on Garcon had really merited a penalty, it also would have merited a fine.

LINK (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/17/danieal-manning-not-fined-for-hit-on-pierre-garcon/)

kwayshauntay
09-17-2011, 01:52 PM
Forget about Manning.

Check out the play J-Joseph makes to knock the ball away. That was a perfect pass by Collins, but J-Jo ruined it. Great play!

NBT
09-17-2011, 02:03 PM
From my perspective, I think the refs were trying to help out a defenseless Indianapolis, instead of the player! :good:

Norg
09-17-2011, 03:01 PM
if i was on the D side of the ball i would be so mad on how they treat the Offensive players

If u going to get a pentaly for just touching the the guy u might has well go back to ol school hitting and light him up

CloakNNNdagger
09-17-2011, 04:50 PM
As close to an apology as you're going to get.

Danieal Manning not fined for hit on Pierre Garcon (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/17/danieal-manning-not-fined-for-hit-on-pierre-garcon/)


We noted this week that Texans safety Danieal Manning drew one of the more ridiculous penalties of Week One, getting called for a hit on Colts receiver Pierre Garcon even though Manning went out of his way to avoid contact.

But we have some good news: The NFL has confirmed to PFT that Manning was not fined.

Although the NFL always avoids calling out the officials, not fining Manning is a tacit acknowledgment that the official who threw the flag on Manning screwed up. If Manning’s hit on Garcon had really merited a penalty, it also would have merited a fine.

So we’re glad to see that the league office recognized that Manning did nothing wrong. Now we’ll hope the officials don’t throw any more flags this year on defensive backs who are going out of their way not to hit defenseless receivers. But we won’t be holding our breath.

Texans_Chick
09-18-2011, 09:39 AM
My work is done. :shades:

CloakNNNdagger
09-18-2011, 11:13 AM
My work is done. :shades:

Good job, Steph!:clap:

Lucky
09-18-2011, 11:28 AM
Good job, Steph!:clap:
And I thought the NFL didn't like her (after all of the nasty tweets from Greg Aiello). I guess everyone mended fences after the lockout ended.

MEGA SWATT
09-18-2011, 11:59 AM
awesome!:clap:

Fred
09-18-2011, 12:09 PM
My work is done. :shades:

Repped. Well, for the great work and the blogs etc etc etc, not just this post.

Just before the penalty on Manning my wife commented that even the Refs were having a good game. Then this silly call, and she said "Oops, spoke too soon."

ensign_lee
09-18-2011, 12:34 PM
My work is done. :shades:

woohoo!