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TimeKiller
09-12-2011, 06:27 PM
James Casey-

3 rec. 29 yards, long of 13

Blocked for a rookie (basically a rookie) who ran for 116 yards total, averaged 4.8 per carry.

He takes a LBer with him when he splits out, making extra room for runs/routes over the middle. He demands coverage and good coverage at that.

I don't know how many defenders we're gonna watch him truck before he earns the same reputation Vonta Leach earned but I can't imagine it should be too many more. Or with the way people willing blind themselves to facts, probably never.

He plays special teams, with the primetime returners taking the kicks there was some success.

This guy makes what? A half mil? Vonta Leach wanted....3.5 or something? James Casey and Rick Smith's decision > Vonta Leach and his demands. Oh and Ray Rice didn't have as many yards as Tate, so there's that.

For all the hoopling ladeedah made about VL leaving, this guy is 3 times the player Leach was and we've got nothing? No love? No Casey-to-the-Beach campaign?

AJ, Schaub, Mario, Joseph, these guys are the foundation. The emergence of players like Casey, Tate, several OLmen, Watt, Barwin, Quin...THESE are the guys that are going put the team over the hump. I can't wait to see the sick numbers he's going to put up as a FB while being exactly as effective of a blocker as anyone.

DocBar
09-12-2011, 06:31 PM
He looked good. He did have one play where he became the nail instead of the hammer and trippied up the RB (think it was Tate...maybe SS). Overall, I'll take Casey.

TimeKiller
09-12-2011, 06:39 PM
Fair enough. I remember the play among heads cracking and chains moving.

EllisUnit
09-12-2011, 06:40 PM
He looked good. He did have one play where he became the nail instead of the hammer and trippied up the RB (think it was Tate...maybe SS). Overall, I'll take Casey.

yeah the LB our DE Knocked Casey Down and Tripped up Tate, other than that he did good. PLUs he gives us a very good option out of the back field. He reminds me so much of O.D

DocBar
09-12-2011, 06:42 PM
yeah the LB our DE Knocked Casey Down and Tripped up Tate, other than that he did good. PLUs he gives us a very good option out of the back field. He reminds me so much of O.DI think Superman fits better than Thor for a nickname. Or maybe the X-Factor. He's gonna be a difference maker this season.

honored82
09-12-2011, 06:42 PM
Its Kubiak's offense, the OL, and our running scheme that makes any rookie RB/FB look good.

DocBar
09-12-2011, 06:44 PM
Its Kubiak's offense, the OL, and our running scheme that makes any rookie RB/FB look good.Yeah...who needs talent?:faildetector:

TimeKiller
09-12-2011, 06:46 PM
He reminds me so much of O.D

That's an interesting comparison, similar build and good hands but I think where it falls apart is Casey being stronger and OD being more agile. OD runs to daylight with the ball and is just a 1/8th of a step faster. Casey is a little....undecisive as a runner. BUT in this role? Casey is a weapon, not merely a blocker.

DocBar
09-12-2011, 06:47 PM
That's an interesting comparison, similar build and good hands but I think where it falls apart is Casey being stronger and OD being more agile. OD runs to daylight with the ball and is just a 1/8th of a step faster. Casey is a little....undecisive as a runner. BUT in this role? Casey is a weapon, not merely a blocker.More of a battle axe than a battle hammer. He can cut you in more ways than one.

TimeKiller
09-12-2011, 06:48 PM
Its Kubiak's offense, the OL, and our running scheme that makes any rookie RB/FB look good.

Yeah...who needs talent?:faildetector:

See what I said about people willingly blinding themselves?

TimeKiller
09-12-2011, 06:50 PM
More of a battle axe than a battle hammer. He can cut you in more ways than one.

A Halberd?!

DocBar
09-12-2011, 06:58 PM
A Halberd?!Good description. I was thinking shorter handle, but I like your description more gooder.

EllisUnit
09-12-2011, 07:03 PM
That's an interesting comparison, similar build and good hands but I think where it falls apart is Casey being stronger and OD being more agile. OD runs to daylight with the ball and is just a 1/8th of a step faster. Casey is a little....undecisive as a runner. BUT in this role? Casey is a weapon, not merely a blocker.

Agree to an extent. i dont think Casey has played enough TE in the NFL to really develope into a good one. With a little time i think he would of been just as good as O.D. Well not as good but close.

junior
09-12-2011, 07:03 PM
I think we will miss vonta against the steelers and ravens but knows. We will see, I hope I am wrong because those are two teams that will probably be in the playoffs and one of them we could see in the first round because they will be a wild card.

Texan_Bill
09-12-2011, 07:22 PM
I've said it many times in other threads. I love Vonta Leach, BUT, he wasn't worth money he could command for a FB. Better to cut ties than overspend at a position that can be replaced fairly easily. Good Luck to Vonta and I wish him all the best - except of course when we play the Ravens.

DocBar
09-12-2011, 07:35 PM
I've said it many times in other threads. I love Vonta Leach, BUT, he wasn't worth money he could command for a FB. Better to cut ties than overspend at a position that can be replaced fairly easily. Good Luck to Vonta and I wish him all the best - except of course when we play the Ravens.Yep. You nailed it.

Cjeremy635
09-12-2011, 07:59 PM
I like Casey and I think he has potential, but I think you're being a tad premature in thinking "Vonta who?". Vonta was a battering ram who could wear down a defense and actually make opposing players try to avoid contact with him. He was able to do it consistently, game after game. I hope Casey can get to that level, but to think he is there already isn't accurate. I will agree that Casey does bring a different level of talent, as far as receiving goes, and can create mismatches that Vonta couldn't. He also allows us to be more creative out of the backfield. I just think that Vonta has the edge on blocking and has a proven track record at the position.

IlliniJen
09-12-2011, 08:06 PM
I love the versatility that Casey gives us as a blocker/offensive weapon. He's our little utility belt. I hope Kubiak calls his number occasionally at the goal line with a direct FB handoff.

DocBar
09-12-2011, 08:16 PM
I like Casey and I think he has potential, but I think you're being a tad premature in thinking "Vonta who?". Vonta was a battering ram who could wear down a defense and actually make opposing players try to avoid contact with him. He was able to do it consistently, game after game. I hope Casey can get to that level, but to think he is there already isn't accurate. I will agree that Casey does bring a different level of talent, as far as receiving goes, and can create mismatches that Vonta couldn't. He also allows us to be more creative out of the backfield. I just think that Vonta has the edge on blocking and has a proven track record at the position.On what % of offensive plays? Not necessary in the Texans offense. Casey is money well spent.

Cjeremy635
09-12-2011, 08:33 PM
On what % of offensive plays? Not necessary in the Texans offense. Casey is money well spent.

I'm not following your question. Are you asking what % of plays Vonta was a battering ram for us? If that's it, I can't give you a statistic. I'm strictly going off of memory of last year's games. I specifically remember watching him lower his head and take the will from the opposing players, making them quit as the game wore on. You can look through the archives, I know there were numerous threads on here about it.
I'm not saying that Casey isn't a great bargain. I think the kid has amazing athletic ability and smarts, which allows him to be much more versatile than the average NFL player. I think he can become a really good FB and I think he's off to a great start. I'm not arguing against having him and I get the reason why Vonta was allowed to walk. The cat played his ass off, made the pro bowl, and earned his payday. I also know we had more pressing issues to spend that money on. I just think the jury is still out on how well Casey will do. I wish him the best, but I'll wait until the end of the year to say that we didn't need Vonta.

DocBar
09-12-2011, 08:39 PM
I'm not following your question. Are you asking what % of plays Vonta was a battering ram for us? If that's it, I can't give you a statistic. I'm strictly going off of memory of last year's games. I specifically remember watching him lower his head and take the will from the opposing players, making them quit as the game wore on. You can look through the archives, I know there were numerous threads on here about it.
I'm not saying that Casey isn't a great bargain. I think the kid has amazing athletic ability and smarts, which allows him to be much more versatile than the average NFL player. I think he can become a really good FB and I think he's off to a great start. I'm not arguing against having him and I get the reason why Vonta was allowed to walk. The cat played his ass off, made the pro bowl, and earned his payday. I also know we had more pressing issues to spend that money on. I just think the jury is still out on how well Casey will do. I wish him the best, but I'll wait until the end of the year to say that we didn't need Vonta.The #'s I've seen quoted are 27%. Let Leach make his $$ wih the Ravens and the Texans kick his one diminsional azz into next season.

Cjeremy635
09-12-2011, 08:59 PM
The #'s I've seen quoted are 27%. Let Leach make his $$ wih the Ravens and the Texans kick his one diminsional azz into next season.

While Vonta will never be confused with Andre Johnson, he has caught numerous balls out of the backfield and turned them into decent gains. To say that the guy was "only" a blocker is not accurate. I would almost guarantee that Vonta has put up those same, or better, receiving yards in a game that were posted for Casey.

DocBar
09-12-2011, 09:04 PM
While Vonta will never be confused with Andre Johnson, he has caught numerous balls out of the backfield and turned them into decent gains. To say that the guy was "only" a blocker is not accurate. I would almost guarantee that Vonta has put up those same, or better, receiving yards in a game that were posted for Casey.True enough, but he was never a weapon out of the backfield. A checkdown at best.

Cjeremy635
09-12-2011, 09:11 PM
True enough, but he was never a weapon out of the backfield. A checkdown at best.

I agree with that. Like I said earlier, I do think that Casey is more versatile and will allow us to be more creative. Having said that, there are times when you just have to beat the **** out of the other team and Vonta could do that. He was one tough SOB and he was built for it. I just don't know how long Casey can hold up in the "battering ram" role. I think he can hold up just fine as an out of the backfield receiver and being split out wide. I just hope he can handle the beating his body is going to endure this season as a lead blocker. It's a tough role.

Rey
09-12-2011, 09:27 PM
While Vonta will never be confused with Andre Johnson, he has caught numerous balls out of the backfield and turned them into decent gains. To say that the guy was "only" a blocker is not accurate. I would almost guarantee that Vonta has put up those same, or better, receiving yards in a game that were posted for Casey.

Difference is those numbers were probably closer to vonta's ceiling whereas Casey has the ability to do much more.

I don't even think we did anything special against the colts on either side of the ball. Casey is a guy that can give us big mismatches and I don't think we saw that against the colts because we didn't need to.

Rey
09-12-2011, 09:34 PM
I agree with that. Like I said earlier, I do think that Casey is more versatile and will allow us to be more creative. Having said that, there are times when you just have to beat the **** out of the other team and Vonta could do that. He was one tough SOB and he was built for it. I just don't know how long Casey can hold up in the "battering ram" role. I think he can hold up just fine as an out of the backfield receiver and being split out wide. I just hope he can handle the beating his body is going to endure this season as a lead blocker. It's a tough role.

Casey and vonta both play the same position, but their roles are much different. I wouldn't look for Casey to be a battering ram like vonta. Look for him to play the position with his own style. Plus, if Casey does get banged up or needs a break, vickers is more than capable. He's a very good fb.

Lucky
09-12-2011, 09:37 PM
I would almost guarantee that Vonta has put up those same, or better, receiving yards in a game that were posted for Casey.
Leach surpassed 29 receiving yards in 3 games. His career high is 48 yards.

Cjeremy635
09-12-2011, 09:57 PM
Leach surpassed 29 receiving yards in 3 games. His career high is 48 yards.

Thanks for the info Lucky. I'm on my iPhone and it's a pain to try to look up stats.

Brandon420tx
09-13-2011, 02:12 AM
The ravens ran for like 170 yards against the steelers, Vonta is doing ok for himself too

Dan B.
09-13-2011, 02:18 AM
Makes much more sense to pay Leinart 2 mil to sit on the bench when we're up by 4 touchdowns.

TheMatrix31
09-13-2011, 03:49 AM
What's the word on Vickers?

TimeKiller
09-13-2011, 07:58 AM
Good description. I was thinking shorter handle, but I like your description more gooder.

Gotta love your medieval weaponry! You ever watch Deadliest Warrior? They showed a guy ripping a ballistic gel dummy into shreds with a halberd. Like DAMN.

I think we will miss vonta against the steelers and ravens but knows. We will see, I hope I am wrong because those are two teams that will probably be in the playoffs and one of them we could see in the first round because they will be a wild card.

Why, because ESPN pushes the notion that those 2 teams are "tougher" than anyone and therefore cannot be beaten? Say what you want about the Texans but they haven't put up with much BS, despite losing.

I like Casey and I think he has potential, but I think you're being a tad premature in thinking "Vonta who?". Vonta was a battering ram who could wear down a defense and actually make opposing players try to avoid contact with him. He was able to do it consistently, game after game. I hope Casey can get to that level, but to think he is there already isn't accurate. I will agree that Casey does bring a different level of talent, as far as receiving goes, and can create mismatches that Vonta couldn't. He also allows us to be more creative out of the backfield. I just think that Vonta has the edge on blocking and has a proven track record at the position.

He completely filled the void Vonta left (blocking) and opened up a whole new can of wormy goodness. I stand by it: VONTA WHO!!!!?????!!??!?!?!?!?

I love the versatility that Casey gives us as a blocker/offensive weapon. He's our little utility belt. I hope Kubiak calls his number occasionally at the goal line with a direct FB handoff.

I like that. Utility belt. Nice. Nice.

Difference is those numbers were probably closer to vonta's ceiling whereas Casey has the ability to do much more.
.

Exactly.

Oh and the word is in on Vickers. He kinda sucks.

SheTexan
09-13-2011, 08:01 AM
I LOVED Vonta, one of my fav players LAST year, and hated to see him go. BUT, I've always believed James Casey could get the job done at TB. Personally, I'm a TE kind of gal, so JC has always been on my radar, but, he will shine in his new role, no doubt about it.

After all, you can't help but love a guy who's favorite restaurant is I-HOP!!:)

El Tejano
09-13-2011, 08:24 AM
I picked James Casey with the last pick in my draft. He got 2.90 points in my league. I know he's going to pay off as the season goes on.

TdotTexas2Step
09-13-2011, 08:50 AM
Like others have said already, I'm not sure Casey is quite where Vonta is, even overall.

Are we getting much more cost efficient production from the FB position? Definitely.

Can Casey become a better overall player down the road? For sure.

But financial issues aside, I'm pretty sure if every team in the NFL had to choose between Casey or Leach at this point, they'd take Vonta.

He was nothing but great for us, and I fully expect Casey to attempt to give us what Leach did and more. Here's to both us and him doing well, except when we play each other of course.

BigBull17
09-13-2011, 09:17 AM
I think we will miss vonta against the steelers and ravens but knows. We will see, I hope I am wrong because those are two teams that will probably be in the playoffs and one of them we could see in the first round because they will be a wild card.

I don't. You beat them by making them think and read, not by over powering them. Casey makes your base set a threat in so many ways. Leech was good for a 3 yard gain. If you don't match up on Casey correctly, he's gonna hurt you. I like forcing those Steeler or Raven LBers cover and follow him in motion then letting them play the run hard core.

Ole Miss Texan
09-13-2011, 09:33 AM
I'll be honest and say I was super excited we got Vickers to replace Leach. James Casey thus far has exceeded my expectations 100 fold. I love his versatility and how Kubiak/Dennison are creating mismatches by motioning him between the FB and TE positions. This will give DC's headaches all season long.

Joeycharp89
09-13-2011, 09:43 AM
I think comparing the two is going to be difficult. Casey just isn't going to get as many yards for us with his blocking as Leach did. He'll be benefiting us in different ways though, and it's difficult to just look at their stats 1-1 and say "Oh ya this guy is helping his team more than this other guy." You'd have to look at each team's rushing yards, and still look at who they have as Running backs, because comparing Arian Foster numbers to pretty much any other RB is going to be skewed.

You could try comparing Leach's previous stats, but that's assuming he'll carry them over every year, and what we want to look at is not how good they were, but how well they are doing now. Casey is improving and adjusting, just like the rest of the offense. He has a lot of room to grow, and likewise Leach is adjusting to a new offense.

Either way, I don't think Leach is crucial with our offensive line doing so well.

beerlover
09-13-2011, 09:47 AM
I wonder how Texans fare when they play smash mouth Ravens? This game will answer questions about toughness, something Baltimore is willing to spend millions to perpetuate.

brad77
09-13-2011, 09:50 AM
I liked Vonta, however so far Casey is doing a nice job filing that role. I hated to see the Team get rid of Vonta. However, it seems to be working out

TimeKiller
09-13-2011, 11:03 AM
Like others have said already, I'm not sure Casey is quite where Vonta is, even overall.
hahaha....OVERALL?!? The only one thing Vonta did better was get recognized. Maybe blocking too but seeing James Casey run over defender after defender has me thinking about it. James Casey wins all other categories by a mile. I dare you to name one thing Vonta did better than Casey, save blocking. Ready, steady, GO!

But financial issues aside, I'm pretty sure if every team in the NFL had to choose between Casey or Leach at this point, they'd take Vonta.
........except that the only team that had the choice.....CHOSE JAMES CASEY. So there's that.

I'll be honest and say I was super excited we got Vickers to replace Leach. James Casey thus far has exceeded my expectations 100 fold. I love his versatility and how Kubiak/Dennison are creating mismatches by motioning him between the FB and TE positions. This will give DC's headaches all season long.
Exactly. If you cover him with a LBer, you take away run defense and probably don't have the goods to cover him AND Daniels AND the RB. If you hit him up with a DB he physically dominates, pass or run, easily setting the edge for a stretch run. It's almost unfair, except it is and it's awesome.

I think comparing the two is going to be difficult. Casey just isn't going to get as many yards for us with his blocking as Leach did.
Blockers.....don't get yards. RBs do and I don't think anyone is confusing Foster for Tate just yet.


He'll be benefiting us in different ways though, and it's difficult to just look at their stats 1-1 and say "Oh ya this guy is helping his team more than this other guy." You'd have to look at each team's rushing yards, and still look at who they have as Running backs, because comparing Arian Foster numbers to pretty much any other RB is going to be skewed.
k....so Ray Rice went 19 carries for 107 yards, a TD, averaged 5.6 per carry with a long of 36. So minus that one run he averaged about 4 yards a carry.

Ben Tate, a rookie and definitely NOT as well thought of as Ray Rice OR Arian Foster, went 24 carries/116 yards/4.8 per/long of 18. Minus the big run averaged about 4.2 against a team that was pretty well aware the run/clockilling was coming with JC leading the way.


You could try comparing Leach's previous stats, but that's assuming he'll carry them over every year, and what we want to look at is not how good they were, but how well they are doing now. Casey is improving and adjusting, just like the rest of the offense. He has a lot of room to grow, and likewise Leach is adjusting to a new offense.
Leach, as a dump off option, averaged about 1 reception for 7 yards in his time in Houston. And blocked well. Casey is going to easily surpass receptions/yards and is going to block just fine. Advantage Casey.


Either way, I don't think Leach is crucial with our offensive line doing so well.
Which is why he isn't here anymore.

badboy
09-13-2011, 11:34 AM
He has been a pleasant surprise to me including as a TE. That depth makes it ok to have 4 WRs.

Rey
09-13-2011, 11:42 AM
I'm not surprised at all with what Casey has done so far. It's just been one game so I expect him to do a lot more.

michaelm
09-13-2011, 11:43 AM
If you think back to when Kubiak first took over as HC, Casey fits exactly the type of FB that the team was looking for.
Kubiak wanted more of an H-back than classic FB, and that's why we had guys like Jameel Cook on the roster.
Kubiak wanted a guy who could catch the ball out of the backfield, but just happened to strike gold with guys like Moran Norris, and Vonta Leach who are prototypical blocking fullbacks.
Despite what Kubiak was looking for, it was impossible for him to keep those two off the field. They just have too much value. So credit goes to Kubiak, IMO, for adapting his system to the players that gave him the best unit on the field.
And credit him again for recognizing what Casey brings to the table, and incorporating his specific skill set into the offense.

Brandon420tx
09-13-2011, 01:56 PM
Averaging 4 yards a carry, against the Pittsburgh Run D. is more impressive than averaging 4.8 against Indy's run D.

infantrycak
09-13-2011, 02:14 PM
You forgot part of your assertion. Here - Averaging 4 yards a carry, against the Pittsburgh Run D. is more impressive than averaging 4.8 against Indy's run D even if Baltimore had its proven starter and Houston was starting a journeyman backup (until injured early on) and then 1st NFL game 3rd stringer.

TimeKiller
09-13-2011, 05:15 PM
You forgot part of your assertion. Here - Averaging 4 yards a carry, against the Pittsburgh Run D. is more impressive than averaging 4.8 against Indy's run D even if Baltimore had its proven starter and Houston was starting a journeyman backup (until injured early on) and then 1st NFL game 3rd stringer.

I guess we won't have to wait long to accurately compare the Texans/Ravens ground game vs. the Steelers. Call me crazy, I'm gonna take the over.

Rey
09-25-2011, 12:29 PM
This deserves a bump.

Brandon420tx
09-25-2011, 12:55 PM
I've been very happy with Casey but ...
I still don't like this thread title, its just comes across as disrespectful to Vonta who did very good things for us here

vupac1
09-25-2011, 02:16 PM
WOW.. Thor is beasting today!!

Hookem Horns
09-25-2011, 02:16 PM
I'm good with Casey.

Rey
09-25-2011, 02:17 PM
Fudge yeah!

TexanSam
09-25-2011, 02:18 PM
I can't think of any other FB, past or present, who's as versatile as Casey. How many fullbacks are there who are that dangerous on offense. Maybe Mike Alstott?

Hookem Horns
09-25-2011, 02:19 PM
I've been very happy with Casey but ...
I still don't like this thread title, its just comes across as disrespectful to Vonta who did very good things for us here

True be he made the decision to leave so I have no issue. If Vonta was gone due to an injury that would be another thing. However all of that being said I don't get the title as disrespectful. It just says that we don't miss him.

Rey
09-25-2011, 02:22 PM
True be he made the decision to leave so I have no issue. If Vonta was gone due to an injury that would be another thing. However all of that being said I don't get the title as disrespectful. It just says that we don't miss him.

Yep.

I don't miss vonta and I've made that known from the get go.

I had a good feeling about what Casey would bring.