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View Full Version : Being upset is not about TJ...


TexanWolverine
04-23-2005, 04:00 PM
I posted here for a while long ago but after reading today I felt the urge to sign up again.

My feelings, and from what I see from people with similiar upset feelings, is that the pick of Travis Johnson itself is not a problem. If DJ had already been picked at 10 and we traded down to 16 and picked up Travis Johnson that would be fine. The fact that upsets me and others is that we passed up on Derrick Johnson. Basically our front office told us that they value Travis Johnson and a 3rd round pick next year more than Derrick Johnson. I just dont see it. I had a couple of friends over and we went crazy when San Diego did not pick up DJ...Only to have my heart broke a few minutes later.

This has nothing to do with trusting Charlie. I trust Charlie and have faith in the pick. That doesnt mean though that I didnt want Derrick Johnson with every fiber in my body.

I don't see why those who didnt want Derrick Johnson feel the need to bash those who did on this board. You say can say that DJ does not fit into our system...I'd argue that you unless you can show me the evidence of that then you know nothing more than those of us who felt he would be fantastic in our system.

TexanWolverine
04-23-2005, 04:04 PM
Oh...And heres a tidbit on Travis Johnson. He was the #1 defensive tackle coming out of High School. His last two teams came down to Michigan and Florida State. Every indication before signing day was he was heading to Michigan. On signing day he signed with Florida State saying: "I went to bed a Wolverine and woke up a Seminole."

Grid
04-23-2005, 04:07 PM
I really wanted Pollack. In a couple threads ive said "Well i really wanted Pollack, but Travis Johnson is a good pick because...."

See the difference in that incomparison to "OMG Fire Cass!! WE HAVE A STUPID FRONT OFFICE! THIS IS UNREAL! OMG IM HAVING A HEARTATTACK!"

People arent bashing the people who wanted DJ.. they are bashing the way to act about it.


The reason I didnt want DJ is because he showed no tackling ability, and avoided contact. That isnt what you want in an LB.

Wolf
04-23-2005, 04:10 PM
I really wanted Pollack. In a couple threads ive said "Well i really wanted Pollack, but Travis Johnson is a good pick because...."

See the difference in that incomparison to "OMG Fire Cass!! WE HAVE A STUPID FRONT OFFICE! THIS IS UNREAL! OMG IM HAVING A HEARTATTACK!"

People arent bashing the people who wanted DJ.. they are bashing the way to act about it.


The reason I didnt want DJ is because he showed no tackling ability, and avoided contact. That isnt what you want in an LB.


I think if we had a DL that could hold its own and tie up the OL so our LB's could run free.. we'd have taken DJ and let him roam...
As it is these OL get their hands on the Lb's and we can't get a pass rush

Trogdor014
04-23-2005, 04:10 PM
Oh...And heres a tidbit on Travis Johnson. He was the #1 defensive tackle coming out of High School. His last two teams came down to Michigan and Florida State. Every indication before signing day was he was heading to Michigan. On signing day he signed with Florida State saying: "I went to bed a Wolverine and woke up a Seminole."

Ok, first off all I can say is, WOW, what does that prove?

Second, can you tell me why you thought of DJ so highly? Was it the local media hype? I'm a student at UT and watched every home game (not just his highlight film) and he is NOT as good as advertised.

He has the POTENTIAL to be great, but all that is dependent on him learning to tackle and take on blocks. DJ has a great motor, but he is still a very very raw player. We already had enough LBs on this team last season that struggled taking on blocks and making the tackles. (Foreman and even Sharper at times).

Why "we" blast on the people that wanted DJ is because of the **** they post afterwards like "Well I'm trading in my season tickets" and "Fire Casserly". If you are gonna be a knee jerk fan then get the **** out.

UberDork
04-23-2005, 04:12 PM
I had a couple of friends over and we went crazy when San Diego did not pick up DJ...Only to have my heart broke a few minutes later.

I hear what you are saying BIG TIME...I was jumping up and down like a little kid on Christmas...Then, when a saw the trade, I had a reaction similar to that little kid getting a puppy for christmas, but then the kid realizes the puppy is dead...and I didn't know why. That one hurt...

I can't blame people for having any sort of knee jerk reactions after that swing of emotions, but they should remeber they are bashing a Texan, in Travis Johnson, that has done nothing wrong with us.

I am still speechless
.

TexanWolverine
04-23-2005, 04:12 PM
I would say though that every prospect coming out of college has perceived holes in their game. My feelings are that that pluses that Derrick Johnson would bring to our team far outweighed the minuses. Our linebackers in the past three years have moved like molases to the ball and DJ would bring instant sideline to sideline speed.

In regards to the resposne about the bashing...I wasnt referring to those that have reacted with class or just called out the ones simply flaming. I am refering to a number of people that 1. didnt want DJ but didnt explain their reasons beyound he wont fit into our system. 2. reacted to those who explained their anger with "you are unloyal" responses.

Wolf
04-23-2005, 04:15 PM
I wanted DJ to be a Texan.. but it wasn't meant to be...

DJ became the 2005 version of Sean Taylor on this board.

TexanWolverine
04-23-2005, 04:16 PM
Ok, first off all I can say is, WOW, what does that prove?

Second, can you tell me why you thought of DJ so highly? Was it the local media hype? I'm a student at UT and watched every home game (not just his highlight film) and he is NOT as good as advertised.

He has the POTENTIAL to be great, but all that is dependent on him learning to tackle and take on blocks. DJ has a great motor, but he is still a very very raw player. We already had enough LBs on this team last season that struggled taking on blocks and making the tackles. (Foreman and even Sharper at times).

Why "we" blast on the people that wanted DJ is because of the **** they post afterwards like "Well I'm trading in my season tickets" and "Fire Casserly". If you are gonna be a knee jerk fan then get the **** out.

I, too, am a student at UT and watched every game. We'll just say we came away with differing opinions. I explained that his speed would greatly improve our linebacking speed and that what he brings overall far outweighs his negatives. It is also my belief that he hasnt stopped learning and our coaches could teach him the things you say he lacks...But the physical ability is something you can't teach.

Secondly...I was not making a commentary on TJ with my thing about Michigan so calm down, buddy.

Trogdor014
04-23-2005, 04:25 PM
Secondly...I was not making a commentary on TJ with my thing about Michigan so calm down, buddy.

I wasn't aiming that last part at you... That was directed at those who just ***** and moan for the helluva it.

I'm sorry though, we will have to disagree on this. It looks like Peek will be our starting OLB this season, so we didn't need another speedster who misses tackles in our LB corp. We also have upgraded our speed at LB with the signing of Greenwood.

There were people on here last night trying to prepare people for us passing on DJ even if he were there. I figured he was outta the picture the day we signed Greenwood.

And you mentioned DJ is still learning, but can't the same be said about TJ? I strongly doubt Derrick wouldn't have had much success this season even if we did draft him. It is very hard for LBs to be successful in the 3-4 if you don't have the DL available to free them up (Especially when someone like DJ doesn't take on blocks and avoids traffic).

Obviously Cass and Company weren't impressed with DJ, so they decided to focus on our more pressing need at DL.

Huge
04-23-2005, 06:51 PM
Okay...

What role do you think DJ would play in a 3-4 system?

1. OLB? Their priority usually calls for putting pressure on the QB. DJ didn't do that in college because it wasn't his strong suit.
2. ILB? Do you think DJ is the type of player that is good at plugging holes while the defensive linemen absorb the blockers? I don't.

Now, what role do you think he'd play in a 4-3 system?

1. OLB where he has room to roam in space? DJ finished his career at Texas with more INTs than sacks. I'd say this fits him well.

This is my best explanation. If you can explain to me how he would fit in a 3-4, I'm all for hearing it.

As a Longhorn fan, I would've gotten a kick out of watching him play for the Cowboys. But I said two months ago that I'd take Merriman over Johnson if I had to pick him for my team. We got Ware which was just as good. They're just better fits for a 3-4 system.

Hervoyel
04-23-2005, 08:08 PM
The reason I didnt want DJ is because he showed no tackling ability, and avoided contact. That isnt what you want in an LB.

Grid do you really think that a LB who "showed no tackling ability and avoided contact" would be picked by any NFL team in the first round of the draft? Think about what you're saying there and tell me if you're not maybe blowing things a little bit out of proportion here.

bigcarlos
04-23-2005, 08:14 PM
We pass on DJ to get a 3rd rounder NEXT YEAR. Our 2nd and 3rd draft picks have been TERRIBLE. Instead of getting starters we have drafted busts in those rounds.

He needs to start packing his bags and Dom and Palmer shouldn't be too far behind. I was thinking playoffs this year, but it doesn't look like it will happen. We need to clean house. :loser

Bubbajwp
04-23-2005, 10:23 PM
I agree one hundred percent with huge DJ does not fit in a 3-4 what do you people not understand about that if he did fit in a 3-4 he wouldnt have made it past the cowboys

Bubbajwp
04-23-2005, 10:26 PM
the lions ruined my day when they took mike williams instead of dj

Holden135
04-23-2005, 10:36 PM
We pass on DJ to get a 3rd rounder NEXT YEAR. Our 2nd and 3rd draft picks have been TERRIBLE. Instead of getting starters we have drafted busts in those rounds.

He needs to start packing his bags and Dom and Palmer shouldn't be too far behind. I was thinking playoffs this year, but it doesn't look like it will happen. We need to clean house.

Are you kidding me. I like the pick but even if we drafted Joe Shmoe from Houston Community College i would still put us in the playoffs. One draft pick doesnt make or break a team. When all you kids wake up and realize DJ doesn't fit our scheme and that TJ is a really solid pick that will solidify our d-line and bring our rushing defense to a respectable mark you will understand why we made this pick.

disaacks3
04-23-2005, 10:44 PM
TJ vs. DJ

First let me say that, in and of itself, there's nothing wrong with the TJ pick. My issue several hours ago (and it hasn't changed) is that the Texans appeared to be surprised that DJ didn't fall back to them at 16.

Cass isn't omnipotent and makes mistakes like the rest of us. I truly believe that he took what he considered an acceptable risk (of letting DJ get picked @14-15) to pick up a 3rd rounder next year. The Texans were sure working the phones AWFULLY hard those last few minutes for a team that 'already had its mind made up' regarding TJ.

IMO, those that think (for whatever reason) that EITHER player couldn't work in the Texans 3-4, you're just kidding yourselves. They BOTH would work just fine, but obviously have different upsides.

I don't think CC is an ***** (I love our third round choice), just that he gambled and IMO lost the better player this time because of it.

Everyone on here loves to argue the old "..well if YOU're so smart, YOU should be a GM.." line. Well, I don't think CC is that much smarter than the other 31 GMs out there, and DJ WAS taken @15 by one of those guys who IS a GM. You can't have it both ways...either he was worth the pick (according to EXPERTS), or we may have picked a lesser player, because we chose to gamble. :listening

bigcarlos
04-23-2005, 10:53 PM
even if we drafted Joe Shmoe from Houston Community College

He sounds like he would be a big time player at UH. :loser

J-Storm
04-23-2005, 11:08 PM
the lions ruined my day when they took mike williams instead of dj

Exactly my thinking! When I saw that Williams had slipped that far I was more excited we would have a WR to complement Andre. Would have much rathered ending up with Williams over DJ and TJ (as most others probably would have been if truth be known). But then Detroit had to go be WR happy (yet) again and we ended up with TJ which I'm quite happy to live with (for now)...

Marcus
04-23-2005, 11:25 PM
TJ vs. DJ

First let me say that, in and of itself, there's nothing wrong with the TJ pick. My issue several hours ago (and it hasn't changed) is that the Texans appeared to be surprised that DJ didn't fall back to them at 16.

Cass isn't omnipotent and makes mistakes like the rest of us. I truly believe that he took what he considered an acceptable risk (of letting DJ get picked @14-15) to pick up a 3rd rounder next year. The Texans were sure working the phones AWFULLY hard those last few minutes for a team that 'already had its mind made up' regarding TJ.

IMO, those that think (for whatever reason) that EITHER player couldn't work in the Texans 3-4, you're just kidding yourselves. They BOTH would work just fine, but obviously have different upsides.

I don't think CC is an ***** (I love our third round choice), just that he gambled and IMO lost the better player this time because of it.

Everyone on here loves to argue the old "..well if YOU're so smart, YOU should be a GM.." line. Well, I don't think CC is that much smarter than the other 31 GMs out there, and DJ WAS taken @15 by one of those guys who IS a GM. You can't have it both ways...either he was worth the pick (according to EXPERTS), or we may have picked a lesser player, because we chose to gamble. :listening

If Casserly wants a player, he is NOT going "gamble" anything at the risk of losing him. If Casserly wants a player, like he wanted Jason Babin last year, he'll even trade up to get him. If Casserly truly wanted Derrick Johnson, he would have taken him with the 13th pick.

The fact is that Casserly DID NOT WANT Derrick Johnson. I think some of you want to cling to this "gambling, but lost", thing because for some strange reason it make it a little easier to swallow. It may be hard for you to understand why CC didn't want DJ, but you need to swallow hard, and accept that Casserly didn't have him rated as high as you did.

disaacks3
04-24-2005, 06:30 AM
If Casserly wants a player, he is NOT going "gamble" anything at the risk of losing him. If Casserly wants a player, like he wanted Jason Babin last year, he'll even trade up to get him. If Casserly truly wanted Derrick Johnson, he would have taken him with the 13th pick.

The fact is that Casserly DID NOT WANT Derrick Johnson. I think some of you want to cling to this "gambling, but lost", thing because for some strange reason it make it a little easier to swallow. It may be hard for you to understand why CC didn't want DJ, but you need to swallow hard, and accept that Casserly didn't have him rated as high as you did.I think you're confusing WANT with COVET. I have no doubt that if there were somebody that CC truly coveted, that he'd be trying to move heaven & earth to 'make it happen'. There's never going to be proof either way as to whether CC liked TJ or AJ better on draft day. What there IS proof of is that TJ wasn't important enough for CC to 'lock him in'...the Texans were still trying to wheel and deal to move farther down, but simply weren't satisfied with what they were being offered in return.

The whole friggin Draft is one BIG gamble, it's the GMs job to make the best informed decision (guess) he can. CC, as a GM is necessarily going to spin his story to suit the situation. IF CC took a 'mild' gamble that didn't pay off, do you really think he'd admit it? :shocked There'd be no upside to doing that for him, so it's a rhetorical question.

The Texans ARE in need of help at DT, so I've got no issue with the pick. I keep telling myself that the Dalai Lama's words "Sometimes, not gettting what you want is the greatest gift of all!" also apply to Draft Day. :woot

Tulip
04-24-2005, 10:28 AM
I agree - the Texans did NOT want Derrick Johnson. They would not have traded down if they did. The Chiefs wanted two players - Thomas Davis and Derrick Johnson. There was way too much risk that the Chiefs would pick Derrick Johnson in the spot right above the spot we traded for.

I wanted him, but I accept the Texans didn't want him.

I guess this is this year's Chris Simms/Dave Ragone, except that it's not the same position for the two players.

I hope Travis Johnson is a huge success. We've had great success with 1st round picks so far, and I hope the trend continues.

wags
04-24-2005, 10:38 AM
The Chiefs wanted two players - Thomas Davis and Derrick Johnson. There was way too much risk that the Chiefs would pick Derrick Johnson in the spot right above the spot we traded for.

Apparently the Chiefs only wanted Thomas Davis because they tried to trade back when Davis was taken.

The Chiefs wanted Thomas Davis here and actually tried to trade out of this pick when the Panthers took Davis. But they instead ended Johnsons' free-fall.

www.espn.com

Tulip
04-24-2005, 10:55 AM
I stand corrected then. But the experts perceived that the Chiefs wanted to both, so there's no reason to think the Texans knew any differently. And there's always the risk that you can't trade out of your pick, which is what apparently happened to the Chiefs. So you pick the best available for your team, which is what the Chiefs did.

The Texans played appropriate lip service to DJ, but they never wanted him.