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View Full Version : Big concern on offense!


badboy
09-03-2011, 09:59 PM
I have plenty of concerns on defense but Wade says Don't Worry Be Happy!
Still leery, but for now let's look at the other side of the ball. I am very happy overall with the O. and can see it being better than last season but..

Jacoby Jones needs to have a very good not just average year imo. He is probably my greatest concern barring injuries of course to Oline and even then Butler can handle LT & RT. I just cannot figure this player out. I had projected him to have a great year last season playing off AJ, now I just hold my breath when on the field. Will be interesting to see the new Johnson with some reps with first stringers & if JJ does not come prepared to step up he could move down the chart.

DocBar
09-03-2011, 10:03 PM
I have plenty of concerns on defense but Wade says Don't Worry Be Happy!
Still leery, but for now let's look at the other side of the ball. I am very happy overall with the O. and can see it being better than last season but..

Jacoby Jones needs to have a very good not just average year imo. He is probably my greatest concern barring injuries of course to Oline and even then Butler can handle LT & RT. I just cannot figure this player out. I had projected him to have a great year last season playing off AJ, now I just hold my breath when on the field. Will be interesting to see the new Johnson with some reps with first stringers & if JJ does not come prepared to step up he could move down the chart.Our 4th or so option on offense is a BIG concern of yours? You have all-world in AJ, far above average in OD, and a solid 3rd in Walter. At RB, you have Foster, Ward and Tate. Barring injury to our OL, we are officially locked and loaded on offense. My biggest concerns are on special teams and, to a degree, defense.

badboy
09-03-2011, 10:42 PM
Our 4th or so option on offense is a BIG concern of yours? You have all-world in AJ, far above average in OD, and a solid 3rd in Walter. At RB, you have Foster, Ward and Tate. Barring injury to our OL, we are officially locked and loaded on offense. My biggest concerns are on special teams and, to a degree, defense.Thread title says "biggest concern on offense". I am leaning towards a 15-1 record if defense is top 10-12. So yeah, a WR who can conceivably average 4-5 balls thrown his way & usually those will be downfield a ways is a concern. Call it nit picking if you want, but then try to imagine if JJ could get 60 receptions and avg 20 yards.

DocBar
09-03-2011, 10:48 PM
Thread title says "biggest concern on offense". I am leaning towards a 15-1 record if defense is top 10-12. So yeah, a WR who can conceivably average 4-5 balls thrown his way & usually those will be downfield a ways is a concern. Call it nit picking if you want, but then try to imagine if JJ could get 60 receptions and avg 20 yards.60 receptions at 20 yds a piece?? That's 1200 yds. from a back up.

badboy
09-03-2011, 11:51 PM
60 receptions at 20 yds a piece?? That's 1200 yds. from a back up.This is what I projected for JJ last season and AJ, OD and Foster/Tate/Ward would allow JJ to get some yardage if he can hold the ball. I think he can get open. Didn't he catch a pass late in one game that brought us to red zone and then Schaub threw an INT? Can't remember which game but believe I'm correct on the details. I like that line up anywhere on field and same when Walter is in rather than JJ.

Ndevine7
09-03-2011, 11:51 PM
60 receptions at 20 yds a piece?? That's 1200 yds. from a back up.

thats high hopes from a player whose never had 600 yards. Id be real happy if he could get around 800

badboy
09-03-2011, 11:53 PM
thats high hopes from a player whose never had 600 yards. Id be real happy if he could get around 800

I'd be happy also but think JJ has talents to beat out Walter but just has not done so. This is why I was surprised Texans got him back.

SteveSlaton20
09-04-2011, 12:12 AM
our offense need to start games better. last year we were terrible starting off games, and our defense being so terrible didn't help.

BullNation4Life
09-04-2011, 12:29 AM
Only thing on offense you should be concerned about is how bad is Foster's hammy....

You know your team has come along way when fans are concerned about the 4th and 5th WR on their team.....

Feels kinda nice...

DocBar
09-04-2011, 12:35 AM
This is what I projected for JJ last season and AJ, OD and Foster/Tate/Ward would allow JJ to get some yardage if he can hold the ball. I think he can get open. Didn't he catch a pass late in one game that brought us to red zone and then Schaub threw an INT? Can't remember which game but believe I'm correct on the details. I like that line up anywhere on field and same when Walter is in rather than JJ.mmmm. ok

BullNation4Life
09-04-2011, 12:39 AM
This is what I projected for JJ last season and AJ, OD and Foster/Tate/Ward would allow JJ to get some yardage if he can hold the ball. I think he can get open. Didn't he catch a pass late in one game that brought us to red zone and then Schaub threw an INT? Can't remember which game but believe I'm correct on the details. I like that line up anywhere on field and same when Walter is in rather than JJ.

I believe you are thinking the Baltimore game and it was Andre that caught the late TD and JJ that caught the 2 pt conversion, THEN Schaub throws the pick....

The 2 pt conversion looked like it was meant for AJ...

beerlover
09-04-2011, 12:42 AM
Big concern on offense!

Would be if Matt Schaub can stay healthy the whole season :headhurts:

Wolf6151
09-04-2011, 12:59 AM
I have plenty of concerns on defense but Wade says Don't Worry Be Happy!
Still leery, but for now let's look at the other side of the ball. I am very happy overall with the O. and can see it being better than last season but..

Jacoby Jones needs to have a very good not just average year imo. He is probably my greatest concern barring injuries of course to Oline and even then Butler can handle LT & RT. I just cannot figure this player out. I had projected him to have a great year last season playing off AJ, now I just hold my breath when on the field. Will be interesting to see the new Johnson with some reps with first stringers & if JJ does not come prepared to step up he could move down the chart.

I agree, JJ has great potential if he could just catch the F'n football. Every year we have such high hopes for him and think that he's going to mature and turn the corner and be the great WR that we all know he can be. I still hold my breath every time he takes a punt return and find myself saying, just go down and hold onto the ball. JJ has had more than enough time to mature and become that great WR. This should be a make it or break it year for him, if he sucks then we should look elsewhere for his replacement. You can only invest so many years in a guy before you have to move on.

Other offensive concerns would be depth on the O-line. If our starters go down this could be a very long season.

Norg
09-04-2011, 01:06 AM
im concerned with

-Eric winston ... on how hes going to suck and then preceed to be on radio week on how he needs to get better
-Can Brisles stay healthy ???? knocks on wood
-how good will our FB play be
-Will Foster be rdy for wk1 ????? !!!!!!!!!!!! thats the big one imo

b0ng
09-04-2011, 01:27 AM
Offensive line depth and wr depth are scary right now. If Meyers went down we are hosed same for any wideout.

thunderkyss
09-04-2011, 04:22 AM
im concerned with

-Will Foster be rdy for wk1 ????? !!!!!!!!!!!! thats the big one imo

that's actually the least of our worries. We don't want to rush him, which could lead to an issue that could nag him all year long. Or an issue that keeps him from performing at 100% for 5 or 6 weeks, ala Revis.


If sitting him two weeks will help ensure we will put this thing behind us & he's 100% week 3, then I'll sit him two weeks.

prostock101
09-04-2011, 09:32 AM
JJ will be JJ. Tease us with a circus catch and then......well, you know.

My only real concern is OLine depth. I know they said they wanted a 5th WR but honestly I don't see it being a big need. And even if AF is held out a couple weeks, Tate and Ward can certainly keep the defense honest while the Air Corps rips them a new one.

Oh, and our ST still suck......:gun:

DocBar
09-04-2011, 09:38 AM
Offensive line depth and wr depth are scary right now. If Meyers went down we are hosed same for any wideout.

that's actually the least of our worries. We don't want to rush him, which could lead to an issue that could nag him all year long. Or an issue that keeps him from performing at 100% for 5 or 6 weeks, ala Revis.


If sitting him two weeks will help ensure we will put this thing behind us & he's 100% week 3, then I'll sit him two weeks.

JJ will be JJ. Tease us with a circus catch and then......well, you know.

My only real concern is OLine depth. I know they said they wanted a 5th WR but honestly I don't see it being a big need. And even if AF is held out a couple weeks, Tate and Ward can certainly keep the defense honest while the Air Corps rips them a new one.

Oh, and our ST still suck......:gun:OL depth is a big concern for me, also.
I agree with TK on Foster. Sitting him for a couple of weeks would be the smart thing to do, and we all know how Kubiak likes to be "smart" with injuries.
I worry about WR depth behind AJ every year. The big guy is what drives our offense, imo.

Trail.Blazr
09-04-2011, 09:43 AM
I agree, JJ has great potential if he could just catch the F'n football. Every year we have such high hopes for him and think that he's going to mature and turn the corner and be the great WR that we all know he can be. I still hold my breath every time he takes a punt return and find myself saying, just go down and hold onto the ball. JJ has had more than enough time to mature and become that great WR. This should be a make it or break it year for him, if he sucks then we should look elsewhere for his replacement. You can only invest so many years in a guy before you have to move on.

Other offensive concerns would be depth on the O-line. If our starters go down this could be a very long season.


Will this mis-conception ever die?

AJ dropped a higher percentage of balls thrown to him than JJ last year.

Next....?

DocBar
09-04-2011, 09:49 AM
Will this mis-conception ever die?

AJ dropped a higher percentage of balls thrown to him than JJ last year.

Next....?Have a link showing that?

sakebomb
09-04-2011, 10:04 AM
I just hope the team learns how to play an entire four quarters of football. If they can do that they will be fine.

CloakNNNdagger
09-04-2011, 10:16 AM
Have a link showing that?

Docbar,
ProFootballFocus.com keep the only stats for this parameter.

Drop Percentage: Wide Receivers (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/23/drop-percentage/)

Essentially last year, JJ had twice the percentage drops as AJ.:kubepalm:

Trail.Blazr
09-04-2011, 10:16 AM
Have a link showing that?

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1746371&postcount=45

Here's a link to some links showing incomplete pass info at the bottom to include drops and percent caught.

DocBar
09-04-2011, 10:29 AM
Docbar,
ProFootballFocus.com keep the only stats for this parameter.

Drop Percentage: Wide Receivers (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/23/drop-percentage/)

Essentially last year, JJ had twice the percentage drops as AJ.:kubepalm:Thanks CnD. I forgot I had these guys on my favorites bar.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1746371&postcount=45

Here's a link to some links showing incomplete pass info at the bottom to include drops and percent caught.Thanks for the links.
There seems to be some ambiguity between the two sites as far as methodology. Either way, Kevin Walter should be getting a golden glove award!! LOL

Tailgate
09-04-2011, 10:40 AM
Agree on the O-Line depth. Clearly its the greatest concern for this side of the ball imo. I am not worried about WR depth so much as our TEs are a huge part of our passing game and Open Daniels in all honesty is our #2 WR. Caldwell needs to get healthy ASAP!! How long is he expect to be out for anyway?

DocBar
09-04-2011, 10:48 AM
:hankpalm:Agree on the O-Line depth. Clearly its the greatest concern for this side of the ball imo. I am not worried about WR depth so much as our TEs are a huge part of our passing game and Open Daniels in all honesty is our #2 WR. Caldwell needs to get healthy ASAP!! How long is he expect to be out for anyway?Caldwell has a high ankle sprain, right? That could be a lingering issue for most of the season. Hard to say how long he'll be out since Kubiak only speaks to team Dr's when he's in his cone of silence (http://www.wouldyoubelieve.com/cone.html). I still haven't figured out how to post bleepity-bleep-bleep pictures

Trail.Blazr
09-04-2011, 11:35 AM
Thanks CnD. I forgot I had these guys on my favorites bar.

Thanks for the links.
There seems to be some ambiguity between the two sites as far as methodology. Either way, Kevin Walter should be getting a golden glove award!! LOL


Agreed.

In the profootballfocus source, they list Jordan Shipley as perfect, yet as read in the responses, evidence shown that he did have a drop, so what defines a drop, definately contributes to the ambiguity you cite.

Still, even with profootballfocus, as my intent wasn't to say JJ was better than AJ, in any way, but rather point out that JJ being a drop-a-holic is more myth than fact. Continued comparisons for the 2010 data listed in the profootballfocus link puts JJ in the high end of a list of players such as Wes Welker, Brandon Marshall, DeSean Jackson, Steve Smiths to name a few, which I wouldn't lump any as players that "suck" based on their penchant for drops.

I will come to the side of the fence where the fans deem JJ's drops as chronic
and say that some of his drops have been somewhat inopportune at critical times. Combined with his jeckyl and hyde return issues he gave us for a season, it's easy to slip into the mindset that JJ has butter fingers. However, I don't think that the calling for his replacement has much more merit than calling for Wes Welker to be shipped out of NE as a reciever. Put down the haterade, and get you a big cool glass of Koolaide my friends.:koolaid:

If JJ is the big concern on offense, then We as fans, are in for a REAL TREAT this year.

gary
09-04-2011, 11:58 AM
im concerned with

-Eric winston ... on how hes going to suck and then preceed to be on radio week on how he needs to get better
-Can Brisles stay healthy ???? knocks on wood
-how good will our FB play be
-Will Foster be rdy for wk1 ????? !!!!!!!!!!!! thats the big one imoHe did pretty well this preseason from what I saw and I hope he continues to proceed.

CloakNNNdagger
09-04-2011, 12:13 PM
Agreed.

In the profootballfocus source, they list Jordan Shipley as perfect, yet as read in the responses, evidence shown that he did have a drop, so what defines a drop, definately contributes to the ambiguity you cite.

Still, even with profootballfocus, as my intent wasn't to say JJ was better than AJ, in any way, but rather point out that JJ being a drop-a-holic is more myth than fact. Continued comparisons for the 2010 data listed in the profootballfocus link puts JJ in the high end of a list of players such as Wes Welker, Brandon Marshall, DeSean Jackson, Steve Smiths to name a few, which I wouldn't lump any as players that "suck" based on their penchant for drops.

I will come to the side of the fence where the fans deem JJ's drops as chronic
and say that some of his drops have been somewhat inopportune at critical times. Combined with his jeckyl and hyde return issues he gave us for a season, it's easy to slip into the mindset that JJ has butter fingers. However, I don't think that the calling for his replacement has much more merit than calling for Wes Welker to be shipped out of NE as a reciever. Put down the haterade, and get you a big cool glass of Koolaide my friends.:koolaid:

If JJ is the big concern on offense, then We as fans, are in for a REAL TREAT this year.

Stats Inc includes evidently RBs and TEs. From your link, in the AFC categoryhttp://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=AFC&type=Receiving&rank=232&year=, its interesting to see Arian Foster and OD there.....and their number of dropped passes.

CloakNNNdagger
09-04-2011, 12:15 PM
He did pretty well this preseason from what I saw and I hope he continues to proceed.

He still showed his bo bo's on his main weakness......pass protection.

Imatexanfan
09-04-2011, 06:12 PM
This is where they shoulda kept Jabar Gaffney...ijs

badboy
09-04-2011, 06:22 PM
Only thing on offense you should be concerned about is how bad is Foster's hammy....

You know your team has come along way when fans are concerned about the 4th and 5th WR on their team.....

Feels kinda nice...WHile Foster;s injury is a concern we do have two replacements to step up. Who takes JJ place, Johnson I guess?

DocBar
09-04-2011, 06:25 PM
Stats Inc includes evidently RBs and TEs. From your link, in the AFC categoryhttp://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=AFC&type=Receiving&rank=232&year=, its interesting to see Arian Foster and OD there.....and their number of dropped passes.Do you know the formula they use to determine a drop? I was OK with the way PFF does theirs. It looks like the most targeted receivers are leading the list on the link you provided.

badboy
09-04-2011, 06:27 PM
I agree, JJ has great potential if he could just catch the F'n football. Every year we have such high hopes for him and think that he's going to mature and turn the corner and be the great WR that we all know he can be. I still hold my breath every time he takes a punt return and find myself saying, just go down and hold onto the ball. JJ has had more than enough time to mature and become that great WR. This should be a make it or break it year for him, if he sucks then we should look elsewhere for his replacement. You can only invest so many years in a guy before you have to move on.

Other offensive concerns would be depth on the O-line. If our starters go down this could be a very long season.Jeff FUller our next draft's first round pick.

ChampionTexan
09-04-2011, 06:30 PM
WHile Foster;s injury is a concern we do have two replacements to step up. Who takes JJ place, Johnson I guess?

Remember that for vested veterans (four years or more of NFL service), their annual salary is guaranteed if they're on the opening day roster. As a result, if the Texans are looking to add a 5th WR, they may not do it until after the Colts game.

badboy
09-04-2011, 09:58 PM
Remember that for vested veterans (four years or more of NFL service), their annual salary is guaranteed if they're on the opening day roster. As a result, if the Texans are looking to add a 5th WR, they may not do it until after the Colts game.Pollard was example of this.

gary
09-04-2011, 11:03 PM
He still showed his bo bo's on his main weakness......pass protection.Why do you think he does struggle in pass pro? Not a great fit there or what is the reason? I think overall the starting five have done a nice job so far though.

CloakNNNdagger
09-04-2011, 11:14 PM
Do you know the formula they use to determine a drop? I was OK with the way PFF does theirs. It looks like the most targeted receivers are leading the list on the link you provided.

They do not give their formula anywhere that I can find. These are not by % unfortunately, so that they are out of context.

DocBar
09-04-2011, 11:17 PM
Why do you think he does struggle in pass pro? Not a great fit there or what is the reason? I think overall the starting five have done a nice job so far though.He gets beat regularly and often in pass pro is why I would say that. He struggles to keep faster edge rushers from getting around him and he doesn't use his hands particularly well. He's also not great in ZBS and he admits it. He would rather lock onto a DT/DE and simply drive them backwards. He might actually be better suited for G or C, but I haven't studied him enough to say that for sure. He would definitely be smart enough to make good calls for the OL as C, I think.
In a perfect world, we would draft an elite LT and move Brown to RT, where I think he would be a great fit, and have Winston for depth.

CloakNNNdagger
09-04-2011, 11:18 PM
Why do you think he does struggle in pass pro? Not a great fit there or what is the reason? I think overall the starting five have done a nice job so far though.

My personal opinion. On the football field, he's somewhat slow of foot and mind.

gary
09-04-2011, 11:31 PM
He gets beat regularly and often in pass pro is why I would say that. He struggles to keep faster edge rushers from getting around him and he doesn't use his hands particularly well. He's also not great in ZBS and he admits it. He would rather lock onto a DT/DE and simply drive them backwards. He might actually be better suited for G or C, but I haven't studied him enough to say that for sure. He would definitely be smart enough to make good calls for the OL as C, I think.
In a perfect world, we would draft an elite LT and move Brown to RT, where I think he would be a great fit, and have Winston for depth.

My personal opinion. On the football field, he's somewhat slow of foot and mind.I understand that is the way he is in pass pro but I just wanted to see if he will always be that way.

DocBar
09-04-2011, 11:33 PM
My personal opinion. On the football field, he's somewhat slow of foot and mind.Do you really think he's slow of mind? I think he's slow of foot and lacking the athletic ability to play the position properly. I think he's smart enough, though. Maybe that's from listening to him work on his post-NFL career...in the media.

badboy
09-04-2011, 11:36 PM
With exception of Myers, I think our Oline would do better in a knocked them back power type O rather than ZBS.

DocBar
09-04-2011, 11:38 PM
I understand that is the way he is in pass pro but I just wanted to see if he will always be that way.I think he will. It's just one of those things where he seems to lack the physical ability to play the position at a high level. I think the reason our OL has looked so much better the last couple of years is that Kubiak realizes this and designs a lot of plays that move the pocket by using play action and bootlegs so often. That helps to keep a DE/OLB in contain mode.

CloakNNNdagger
09-04-2011, 11:50 PM
Do you really think he's slow of mind? I think he's slow of foot and lacking the athletic ability to play the position properly. I think he's smart enough, though. Maybe that's from listening to him work on his post-NFL career...in the media.

When I said "slow of mind," I was referring to slow of mind to foot translation......and qualified "on the field." Keep in mind, when you are running the ball in a ZBS, once you get the hang of it, it is highly routine. When you are pass protecting, you are for the most part at the mercy of the D as to how and where you will be attacked. You must be quick of mind and foot to adjust on the fly....or you look like Winston. Winston knows where the microphone is at all times. It is unlikely that he would ever have a problem picking up and adjusting to an inch or two of its movement should his nose ever hit it.:kitten:

And Gary, I believe what you see is what you get........now and forever.

DocBar
09-04-2011, 11:53 PM
When I said "slow of mind," I was referring to slow of mind to foot translation......and qualified "on the field." Keep in mind, when you are running the ball in a ZBS, once you get the hang of it, it is highly routine. When you are pass protecting, you are for the most part at the mercy of the D as to how and where you will be attacked. You must be quick of mind and foot to adjust on the fly....or you look like Winston. Winston knows where the microphone is at all times. It is unlikely that he would ever have a problem picking up and adjusting to an inch or two of its movement should his nose ever hit it.:kitten:

And Gary, I believe what you see is what you get........now and forever.Aha!! What I call athletic abilty!! Winston is not the only one here slow of mind...:spy:

Wolf6151
09-05-2011, 01:12 AM
Jeff FUller our next draft's first round pick.

LOL, Fuller is obviously your latest mancrush since Gerhart.

ChampionTexan
09-05-2011, 01:59 AM
Pollard was example of this.

No he wasn't - Pollard only had three years service when we signed him, so he wasn't going to be guaranteed regardless. Everything I've heard about Pollard points in the direction of an injury that wasn't healed enough to allow him to play until after the season started.

badboy
09-05-2011, 01:23 PM
LOL, Fuller is obviously your latest mancrush since Gerhart.No that was Brandon Harris. Hopefully, Johnson will step up at WR as I am concerned JJ will have a repeat of last season, so-so.
If the free agent can do as well in regular season as the one game he played in pre-season, I would prob shift my focus off Fuller. That would be best scenario as I think my Nose Tackle will probably move up board to a first round by end of this season.
We have major doubts at #2/3 WR, ILB, #2 Cb and NT. IMO, a solid Nose would lessen the concern at ILB. Almost taking care of two spots with one player.

DocBar
09-05-2011, 01:55 PM
No that was Brandon Harris. Hopefully, Johnson will step up at WR as I am concerned JJ will have a repeat of last season, so-so.
If the free agent can do as well in regular season as the one game he played in pre-season, I would prob shift my focus off Fuller. That would be best scenario as I think my Nose Tackle will probably move up board to a first round by end of this season.
We have major doubts at #2/3 WR, ILB, #2 Cb and NT. IMO, a solid Nose would lessen the concern at ILB. Almost taking care of two spots with one player.What is the major concern at #2/3 WR? Walters is :money: and everyone knows OD is our #2. JJ will be JJ and it seems like we'll just have to get used to it. I assume you mean Bryant Johnson stepping up.
I agree with the rest.

rmartin65
09-05-2011, 02:08 PM
I think the Texans do take a receiver fairly high next year. I may be biased, but Ryan Broyles in round 2 is where I am looking. The dude just gets open and makes catches. Perfect compliment to AJ and OD.

thunderkyss
09-05-2011, 02:40 PM
What is the major concern at #2/3 WR? Walters is :money: and everyone knows OD is our #2. JJ will be JJ and it seems like we'll just have to get used to it. I assume you mean Bryant Johnson stepping up.
I agree with the rest.

Then Owen needs to step it up. Our #2 WR needs to be sniffing 1000 yards, 100 catches & 10 TDs. OD has only been close to that in 2008.

Whether we're looking at Walter as our #2 deep threat (rofl) or OD, or JJ...... we are hurting..... not there yet..... got lots of work to do.

Norg
09-05-2011, 03:35 PM
i guess yall are right Wk1 vs the colts Divison game was a important game to win but less of a value now i guess

Now the Divison Games aganist the JAGS will be the most important games

i think it will be a two way race between us and the Jags

Wolf6151
09-05-2011, 03:52 PM
No that was Brandon Harris. Hopefully, Johnson will step up at WR as I am concerned JJ will have a repeat of last season, so-so.
If the free agent can do as well in regular season as the one game he played in pre-season, I would prob shift my focus off Fuller. That would be best scenario as I think my Nose Tackle will probably move up board to a first round by end of this season.
We have major doubts at #2/3 WR, ILB, #2 Cb and NT. IMO, a solid Nose would lessen the concern at ILB. Almost taking care of two spots with one player.

I think we all agree in our HOPE that Bryant Johnson can step up and be productive and possibly challenge JJ for some playing time. I think that is an awfully big hope since he has bounced around the league and that doesn't bode well for him. He looked good in his only preseason game but that was against the other teams 2's and 3's and he got the nickname "paddlehands" for a reason. A month ago I had high hopes that one of the UDFA's Toliver, Jean, Maehl, etc... could step up but it sure doesn't look good for them. I agree we could use better production from our #2 WR but remember that Walter started last year hurt and wasn't totally healthy until about the 6th game of the year so I look forward to greater production from his this year. Walter almost went for 1000 yds. a couple yrs. ago when he was healthy and the Texans signed him to an extension a couple yrs. ago. Let's just HOPE that someone can step up at WR this year and take some of the pressure off AJ and take WR off our draft list of needs so that we can focus on defense again and finish this transition to the 3-4.

thunderkyss
09-05-2011, 04:01 PM
i guess yall are right Wk1 vs the colts Divison game was a important game to win but less of a value now i guess

Now the Divison Games aganist the JAGS will be the most important games

i think it will be a two way race between us and the Jags

It really doesn't work that way.

Division games are great & all, but the Raiders swept their division in 2010..... they were 2-8 outside the division.

We've got to win as many games as we can, in the division, out the division, really doesn't matter as long as we win more games than the next guy in our division.

We can go 0-6 in division games. But if we are 10-0 outside the division, the 6-0 in division Jags haven't got a chance if they are only 1-9 outside the division.

If they are 2-8 outside the division it's theirs, but what are the chances?

Bottom line, we need to win as many games as possible.

kiwitexansfan
09-05-2011, 04:04 PM
Then Owen needs to step it up. Our #2 WR needs to be sniffing 1000 yards, 100 catches & 10 TDs. OD has only been close to that in 2008.

Whether we're looking at Walter as our #2 deep threat (rofl) or OD, or JJ...... we are hurting..... not there yet..... got lots of work to do.

If you're running the ball well you don't need to have a #2 wr getting those numbers.

thunderkyss
09-05-2011, 04:04 PM
I think we all agree in our HOPE that Bryant Johnson can step up and be productive and possibly challenge JJ for some playing time.

Personally, I think JJ needs to be moved to the #2 WR spot. Give him more opportunities. I think the biggest problem with his production is that he isn't on the field more.

We've got Walter out there, & other teams are focusing on AJ & OD.

Put JJ out there & they'll worry about AJ, OD, & JJ.

I know I would.

Norg
09-05-2011, 04:07 PM
yeah but divison games are important all the raiders need to win was 1 more game outside the divison and they were in the playoffs

some good scerinos can happen if we have a good divison record and a good AFC record

like lets say we lose to the bucs some how and the jags beat the bucs well if we had swept the jags even if we tied with them or they won 1 more game then us i would think we would get in

but yeah im with U 14- and O and then Crusie control from then on out LOL

Lucky
09-05-2011, 05:26 PM
we are hurting..... not there yet..... got lots of work to do.
Are you aware that the Texans finished 4th in passing yards last season?

drunkcookie
09-05-2011, 05:38 PM
Are you aware that the Texans finished 4th in passing yards last season?

I hear ya... I hear a lot of this stuff about the Texans needing "a solid #2", as if without one the Texans will for sure struggle offensively... Though it would help, and you always want to improve every part of your team, not having a solid #2 WR is the least of this team's worries...

CloakNNNdagger
09-05-2011, 06:06 PM
I understand that is the way he is in pass pro but I just wanted to see if he will always be that way.

Do you really think he's slow of mind? I think he's slow of foot and lacking the athletic ability to play the position properly. I think he's smart enough, though. Maybe that's from listening to him work on his post-NFL career...in the media.

One more thought............short arms........more critical for pass protection than run blocking.....His arms will remain short for a long time...........

DocBar
09-05-2011, 06:19 PM
I think the Texans do take a receiver fairly high next year. I may be biased, but Ryan Broyles in round 2 is where I am looking. The dude just gets open and makes catches. Perfect compliment to AJ and OD.I'm gonna start checking out LT's and hope I see a good one who might fall to us at the #32 spot in the draft!!:evil:

One more thought............short arms........more critical for pass protection than run blocking.....His arms will remain short for a long time...........Good point. Maybe that's why I don't think he uses hands well...:headhurts:

ObsiWan
09-05-2011, 06:25 PM
One more thought............short arms........more critical for pass protection than run blocking.....His arms will remain short for a long time...........
:spit:

you crack me up

thunderkyss
09-06-2011, 10:11 AM
What is the major concern at #2/3 WR? Walters is :money: and everyone knows OD is our #2. JJ will be JJ and it seems like we'll just have to get used to it. I assume you mean Bryant Johnson stepping up.
I agree with the rest.

Then Owen needs to step it up. Our #2 WR needs to be sniffing 1000 yards, 100 catches & 10 TDs. OD has only been close to that in 2008.

Whether we're looking at Walter as our #2 deep threat (rofl) or OD, or JJ...... we are hurting..... not there yet..... got lots of work to do.

Are you aware that the Texans finished 4th in passing yards last season?

Let's try to stay on subject. The thing in question here, is the #2 receiver. DocBar mentioned that OD was our true #2 option. I said OD needs to step it up, we are hurting for a #2 receiver, & we are.

The #1 Receiver is of course AJ.
#2..... in 2010, was Arian Foster (http://www.nfl.com/teams/statistics?season=2010&team=HOU&seasonType=).
Then Walter, then Jones, then Daniels.

Personally I think it is an issue of concern when TEs & RBs are used more than WRs. I know OD can get down field, but he's still an intermediate threat that doesn't really stretch the field.

Here are the Colts Stats from 2010 (http://www.nfl.com/teams/indianapoliscolts/statistics?season=2010&team=IND&seasonType=)
Notice the receivers, Wayne, Garcon, Tamme, Collie... 3 receivers one TE. Their offense has a totally different dynamic.

Here are the Saints from 2010 (http://www.nfl.com/teams/neworleanssaints/statistics?season=2010&team=NO&seasonType=)Colston, More, Meachum, Shockey

Here are the Packers from 2010 (http://www.nfl.com/teams/greenbaypackers/statistics?season=2010&team=GB&seasonType=) Jennings, Driver, Jones, Shipley, Finley

The only other team that ranked high in passing yards, like we did, but used TEs & RBs as much as we did were the San Diego Chargers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/sandiegochargers/statistics?season=2010&team=SD&seasonType=POST), Sproles, Gates, Floyd, Crayton. With Vincent Jackson back in the fold & barring injury, I bet that won't be the case in 2011

Bottom line, imo, you need wide receivers to stretch the field. It changes the way defenses defend you. I think it changes the game for the better.

infantrycak
09-06-2011, 10:53 AM
The #1 Receiver is of course AJ.
#2..... in 2010, was Arian Foster (http://www.nfl.com/teams/statistics?season=2010&team=HOU&seasonType=).
Then Walter, then Jones, then Daniels.

That is deceptive because the Texans rotate personnel more than most teams. Walter is not always the #2 WR in 2 WR sets. In addition, the majority of our passing comes out of 3 WR sets which divides up the receptions. On the flip side, the great majority of our passing is from 1 TE sets so basically Dreesen and OD alternated for a combined 989 yds. Leave one in and either one would have more receptions and yards than Foster.

michaelm
09-06-2011, 10:59 AM
That would be best scenario as I think my Nose Tackle will probably move up board to a first round by end of this season.


Hopefully your nose tackle doesn't move up above pick #32, or he won't fall to the Texans.

:kitten:

ObsiWan
09-06-2011, 12:43 PM
Let's try to stay on subject. The thing in question here, is the #2 receiver. DocBar mentioned that OD was our true #2 option. I said OD needs to step it up, we are hurting for a #2 receiver, & we are.

The #1 Receiver is of course AJ.
#2..... in 2010, was Arian Foster (http://www.nfl.com/teams/statistics?season=2010&team=HOU&seasonType=).
Then Walter, then Jones, then Daniels.

Personally I think it is an issue of concern when TEs & RBs are used more than WRs. I know OD can get down field, but he's still an intermediate threat that doesn't really stretch the field.

Here are the Colts Stats from 2010 (http://www.nfl.com/teams/indianapoliscolts/statistics?season=2010&team=IND&seasonType=)
Notice the receivers, Wayne, Garcon, Tamme, Collie... 3 receivers one TE. Their offense has a totally different dynamic.

Here are the Saints from 2010 (http://www.nfl.com/teams/neworleanssaints/statistics?season=2010&team=NO&seasonType=)Colston, More, Meachum, Shockey

Here are the Packers from 2010 (http://www.nfl.com/teams/greenbaypackers/statistics?season=2010&team=GB&seasonType=) Jennings, Driver, Jones, Shipley, Finley

The only other team that ranked high in passing yards, like we did, but used TEs & RBs as much as we did were the San Diego Chargers (http://www.nfl.com/teams/sandiegochargers/statistics?season=2010&team=SD&seasonType=POST), Sproles, Gates, Floyd, Crayton. With Vincent Jackson back in the fold & barring injury, I bet that won't be the case in 2011

Bottom line, imo, you need wide receivers to stretch the field. It changes the way defenses defend you. I think it changes the game for the better.

Our offense doesn't operate like that completely. Our offense depends on the defense being so afraid of our running game that our play-action gets our WRs or TEs open.

Think critically about this. We don't actually want to stretch the field. We want the fear of our running attack to make the opposing safeties creep up to help; at which time either AJ or OD or KW gets one-on-one coverage deep. Then we throw OVER that compressed defense and let AJ or OD beat the CB or SS in that one-on-one matchup.

I just think the need for a speedy #2 in this offensive scheme is somewhat overblown. Otherwise how does Schaub throw for 9000 yds during the past two years?

thunderkyss
09-06-2011, 01:21 PM
Our offense doesn't operate like that completely. Our offense depends on the defense being so afraid of our running game that our play-action gets our WRs or TEs open.

Think critically about this. We don't actually want to stretch the field. We want the fear of our running attack to make the opposing safeties creep up to help; at which time either AJ or OD or KW gets one-on-one coverage deep. Then we throw OVER that compressed defense and let AJ or OD beat the CB or SS in that one-on-one matchup.

I just think the need for a speedy #2 in this offensive scheme is somewhat overblown. Otherwise how does Schaub throw for 9000 yds during the past two years?

Well played..

badboy
09-07-2011, 10:40 PM
Hopefully your nose tackle doesn't move up above pick #32, or he won't fall to the Texans.

:kitten:I understand your post but here is my dilemma. I have us picking #25 in my mock even though I think it is possible we go 15-1, #25 is more realistic. Ok, we are setting #25 and Jeff FUller is there and he has had another very good year. Do we pass on a possible A.J. type WR or do we select Almeda Ta'amu who will definitely be gone by our 2nd round pick? As it stand today there are many more #2 WRs on next draft than NTs.

Certainly, the way our passing game goes (Johnson) and our current NTs perform will impact the selections.

b0ng
09-08-2011, 09:32 AM
Then Owen needs to step it up. Our #2 WR needs to be sniffing 1000 yards, 100 catches & 10 TDs.

:rofl: