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Izzo01
08-29-2011, 10:22 PM
Looks like Molden is gone Lestar Jean and Darling both stashed on the IR


link: http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-waive-eight-sign-two-vets-2146702.php

Section516
08-29-2011, 10:26 PM
laced on injured reserve were guard Shelley Smith, guard Kasey Studdard, receiver Lestar Jean and receiver Devard Darling.

Others waived were safety Antonio Baker, punter Brett Hartmann, safety Maurice Rolle and cornerback Jason Teague.

Waived injured were linebacker Matt Marcorelle, guard Darius Morris and receiver Paul Williams.

http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-waive-eight-sign-two-vets-2146702.php

MojoMan
08-29-2011, 10:33 PM
"placed on injured reserve were guard Shelley Smith, guard Kasey Studdard, receiver Lestar Jean and receiver Devard Darling."

Kasey Studdard had been expected. This is news to me about Shelley Smith and LeStar Jean, especially Jean. As far as Darling, it is a bit of a surprise they are keeping him at all. What seemed more likely is that he would be released injured like the other players mentioned.

Izzo01
08-29-2011, 10:37 PM
Yeah wasn't expect Smith or Jean on IR thought Holiday would have been joining Molden as well ... still early though and there's a lot of cutting to do.

Ryan
08-29-2011, 10:43 PM
I was pulling for Hartmann but Maynard has shown slightly better punts and rackers has shown the ability to kick the ball out of the endzone too so there was no use for him.

Rey
08-29-2011, 10:47 PM
Adios molden. Wish you weren't another failed draft pick. I hoped they'd keep him and that he'd work out. Oh well not a huge deal.

Corrosion
08-29-2011, 10:48 PM
I was pulling for Hartmann but Maynard has shown slightly better punts and rackers has shown the ability to kick the ball out of the endzone too so there was no use for him.

Hartmann didnt look too good on the last few KO's ..... couple of them were line drives. He'll latch on somewhere eventually .... but I didnt expect him to beat out a 13 year Vet on a team who's coach is on the hot seat , any other season .... he had a better shot.

CloakNNNdagger
08-29-2011, 11:01 PM
Yeah wasn't expect Smith or Jean on IR thought Holiday would have been joining Molden as well ... still early though and there's a lot of cutting to do.

Would not be surprised to see them try Holliday at returns this week if he didn't get cut now.

fiasco west
08-29-2011, 11:09 PM
Glad that we are stashing Jean away, I really like him and it's unfortunate about what happened to his shoulder.

I was sure he would go to the practice squad only to get grabbed up and succeed elsewhere.

Corrosion
08-29-2011, 11:33 PM
Yeah wasn't expect Smith or Jean on IR thought Holiday would have been joining Molden as well ... still early though and there's a lot of cutting to do.

I sure didnt see that coming ....

I was thinking maybe they were hiding Jean to stash on the PS by not playing him. What is his injury situation ? Could this be a move to keep his rights for the future ?

Smith to IR ? That simple ankle sprain doesnt sound so simple anymore.

Jackie Chiles
08-29-2011, 11:39 PM
I sure didnt see that coming ....

I was thinking maybe they were hiding Jean to stash on the PS by not playing him. What is his injury situation ? Could this be a move to keep his rights for the future ?

Smith to IR ? That simple ankle sprain doesnt sound so simple anymore.

These injuries probably would not have kept guys out for the entire year but its a way for teams to hang on to promising guys that wouldn't be worth keeping unless they could be counted on for the full 16 games. So in a way they are pretty much stashing them, just not on the PS, but on IR. Expect both guys to come back strong next year and make the team. I doubt either would have made a large impact, if any, this season.

Corrosion
08-29-2011, 11:51 PM
These injuries probably would not have kept guys out for the entire year but its a way for teams to hang on to promising guys that wouldn't be worth keeping unless they could be counted on for the full 16 games. So in a way they are pretty much stashing them, just not on the PS, but on IR. Expect both guys to come back strong next year and make the team. I doubt either would have made a large impact, if any, this season.

Thats what I was thinking when I saw they had been put on IR .....


What was S.Smith's contribution last season , was he PS or on the active roster ? I thought they might put him on the pup list .... sign a FA and release that guy later or if another player ended up on IR , open a roster spot that way ..... Would simply placing him on IR in any way affect Smiths PS elegibility going forward ? If not , then that might answer the question why they did it this way.


With the raves given to Jean by the DB's .... I get the idea they didnt want to risk trying to sneak him thru waivers. This buy's him an entire season , and next offseason to be with the team .... Im sure thats a big advantage for him when he's trying to earn a roster spot next season.

Jackie Chiles
08-30-2011, 12:02 AM
What was S.Smith's contribution last season , was he PS or on the active roster ?
I think he started on the PS and might have been 'called up' at some point in the season. Don't believe he saw any game action but maybe some ST plays.

I thought they might put him on the pup list .... sign a FA and release that guy later or if another player ended up on IR , open a roster spot that way .....
Have to come into training camp on the Pup or you can't be on it at all. I do wish football had something like a DL though, I think its silly that you either keep an injured guy on the roster or end his entire season with IR.

Would simply placing him on IR in any way affect Smiths PS elegibility going forward ? If not , then that might answer the question why they did it this way.
Good question, I don't know the answer.

With the raves given to Jean by the DB's .... I get the idea they didnt want to risk trying to sneak him thru waivers. This buy's him an entire season , and next offseason to be with the team .... Im sure thats a big advantage for him when he's trying to earn a roster spot next season.
Yeah, getting some OTAs and an offseason program under his belt should help Jean immensely. I think Smith was going to make the team but hopefully he can take advantage of another offseason as well.

beerlover
08-30-2011, 12:07 AM
More solid decision making by Texan FO? This is really getting scary Texan fans :eek:

TdotTexas2Step
08-30-2011, 12:09 AM
Now with the easy ones out of the way, looking forward to the next round of cuts, especially linebacker and wide receiver.

Corrosion
08-30-2011, 12:19 AM
Now with the easy ones out of the way, looking forward to the next round of cuts, especially linebacker and wide receiver.

You can add CB to that list .... McCain , McManis , Carmichael. Who stays , who goes ?!

I look at DE and wonder how many they keep as well. Watt , A.Smith and Jamison are virtual locks .... Does Bulman have a roster spot ?

There are a lot of unanswered questions with the LB spots ..... Braman , Dobbins , Nading .... do any of them make the final 53.

RB - How many stick 3 or 4 ? .... Slaton or OB27 as the #4 in that scenario ?


Lot of questions at the backup S spots too. Nolan seems to have one of those locked up ....

Texans34Life
08-30-2011, 08:32 AM
So if Lestar has been put away on IR, I'm guessing it's the end for Tolliver and Maehl?

b0ng
08-30-2011, 08:46 AM
You can add CB to that list .... McCain , McManis , Carmichael. Who stays , who goes ?!

Carmichael goes to IR I bet. McManis is probably the closest to getting cut.

I look at DE and wonder how many they keep as well. Watt , A.Smith and Jamison are virtual locks .... Does Bulman have a roster spot ?

Bulman got cut yesterday I thought. If he didn't then I don't think he does have a spot, they probably keep 4 DE's on the roster, maybe another guy on the psquad.

There are a lot of unanswered questions with the LB spots ..... Braman , Dobbins , Nading .... do any of them make the final 53.

RB - How many stick 3 or 4 ? .... Slaton or OB27 as the #4 in that scenario ?

Braman is probably out, Dobbins will make ILB backup and I imagine Nading may have a shot at staying although there are a ton of OLB's on our roster. I think they take 4 RB's into the season, I would imagine Obie Trice gets psquadded (again) or Slaton gets cut to get it that way.


Lot of questions at the backup S spots too. Nolan seems to have one of those locked up ....

Nolan has a spot most definitely.

Porky
08-30-2011, 08:56 AM
http://images4.cpcache.com/product_zoom/24938314v1_480x480_Front_Color-White_padToSquare-true.jpg

Corrosion
08-30-2011, 09:29 AM
Carmichael goes to IR I bet. McManis is probably the closest to getting cut.


Quite possible .... but has he actually been hurt ?


Bulman got cut yesterday I thought. If he didn't then I don't think he does have a spot, they probably keep 4 DE's on the roster, maybe another guy on the psquad.

Bulman did not get cut yesterday ..... Those players include the following -

Antwaun Molden
Antonio Baker
Brett Hartmann
Maurice Rolle
Jason Teague
Matt Marcorelle
Darius Morris
Paul Williams



Braman is probably out, Dobbins will make ILB backup and I imagine Nading may have a shot at staying although there are a ton of OLB's on our roster. I think they take 4 RB's into the season, I would imagine Obie Trice gets psquadded (again) or Slaton gets cut to get it that way.

I could see Braman and Dobbins making the roster - I think Dobbins will because he can play multiple positions. Probably comes down to Braman or Nading ..... Dont know who has a better shot.



The RB situation is another wildcard .... Do they co with a former 1200 yard rusher or a guy who showed some flashes in camp. Do they cut both ? OB27 looks very ordinary to me ..... I'd PS him and only put him on the roster pending injury to one of the top three at the position. Either way , I think Slaton has a better shot at remaining with the team due to past performance.

Vickers ?!?! Just cant see two FB's.

b0ng
08-30-2011, 09:39 AM
Quite possible .... but has he actually been hurt ?

Carmichael had a dislocated shoulder or something likke that. I know he had his arm in a sling at some point in TC.




The RB situation is another wildcard .... Do they co with a former 1200 yard rusher or a guy who showed some flashes in camp. Do they cut both ? OB27 looks very ordinary to me ..... I'd PS him and only put him on the roster pending injury to one of the top three at the position. Either way , I think Slaton has a better shot at remaining with the team due to past performance.

Vickers ?!?! Just cant see two FB's.

If they kept Casey and let Vickers go, I wouldn't be too upset because Casey has shown that him catching the ball off of playaction is nice and we do not seem to lose much with him blocking over Vickers. I think with all of the injuries that we have suffered we probably will lean more towards 4RB's than we would 2FB's.

Damnit, and I really like Vickers too.

Corrosion
08-30-2011, 09:53 AM
Carmichael had a dislocated shoulder or something likke that. I know he had his arm in a sling at some point in TC.



Makes me wonder why they didnt IR him now rather than wait till later ....




If they kept Casey and let Vickers go, I wouldn't be too upset because Casey has shown that him catching the ball off of playaction is nice and we do not seem to lose much with him blocking over Vickers. I think with all of the injuries that we have suffered we probably will lean more towards 4RB's than we would 2FB's.

Damnit, and I really like Vickers too.

Sure wouldnt upset me either .... then again , I havent been impressed at all with Vickers. Tho I have been with Casey , he's added a whole new dimension to the FB position. I have a feeling he's going to put up some good numbers this year.

HOU-TEX
08-30-2011, 09:53 AM
I think it's nice that Darling came off the street to help out and now he'll get a paycheck and a chance to make the team next year.

Props to him for busting his butt.

IDEXAN
08-30-2011, 10:17 AM
Probably comes down to Braman or Nading ..... Dont know who has a better shot.
And refresh my memory, which one attended Colorado State ? Right, good luck there Mr Braman, wherever you may end up ? Hopefully on our PS ?

steelbtexan
08-30-2011, 10:34 AM
And refresh my memory, which one attended Colorado State ? Right, good luck there Mr Braman, wherever you may end up ? Hopefully on our PS ?

True,

I could see Graham getting cut and keeping Vickers. With Casey playing some FB/TE/H-Back.

I noticed the Packer WR Swain got cut and the Packers will have to cut either West or Gurley. These are the types of WR's that should be street FA's and would be upgrades over what the Texans currently have at the WR 4/5 position. The reason they're good fits are they come from a WC offense and would be upgrades on ST's.

GP
08-30-2011, 10:45 AM
My thoughts on the current moves:

1.) I guess Kubiak wants a punter who can directional punt (Maynard). Didn't think he'd cut Hartmann who can kick AND punt. Interesting. With as poorly as our ST unit has looked, I don't blame him for going with Maynard.

2.) Two WRs--Jean and Darling--who were coming on strong after the first two preseason games, are now I.R.'d which means......AJ, KW, JJ, DD, and a fifth guy to be determined. Remaining WRs are as follows:

(A) #15 Jeff Maehl
(B) #82 Terrence Toliver
(C) #17 Paul Williams
(D) #14 Derrick Townsel
(E) #16 Trindon Holliday
(F) #? Bryant Johnson (just added to roster)

It's anybody's guess what Kubiak will decide.

If Bryant Johnson plays Thursday night, you have to think he's going to know maybe just a handful of plays, and when he's out there you have to think that Kubiak will ask the QB to target him (in order to get a look at him in this last preseason game).

I don't even know what happened with Toliver. Anybody know? It's like he was having a good camp and yet I haven't seen him in the games. Did he have an injury? Did he get released? Or just not impressing Kubiak anymore?

Same goes with Townsel.

GP
08-30-2011, 10:55 AM
True,

I could see Graham getting cut and keeping Vickers. With Casey playing some FB/TE/H-Back.

I noticed the Packer WR Swain got cut and the Packers will have to cut either West or Gurley. These are the types of WR's that should be street FA's and would be upgrades over what the Texans currently have at the WR 4/5 position. The reason they're good fits are they come from a WC offense and would be upgrades on ST's.

I don't see Kubiak cutting Graham. In limited action last year, Graham filled in nicely.

An injury to OD (dude has had three separate knee injuries) means we would just have Dreesen at TE with Casey as a backup...which means Vickers has to be a FB at that point, and I don't think Kubiak wants that. I see Kubiak as being tickled plum pink with Casey at FB thus far.

Casey making it at FB has pretty much secured a roster spot for Graham.

And we can't send Graham to the PS because someone on here said he was active for exactly 6 games last season...which makes him ineligible for the PS.

My roster projection I posted in the the other thread, IIRC, has spots for 5 WRs and I had one of those going to Jean who is now I.R.'d. I think we cut Yates (QB) and he goes to the PS--I had him in there as a 54th man.

This makes that 5th WR spot go to possibly Bryant Johnson if Kubiak wants to gamble on the guy.

And the 53rd spot would be there for Trindon Holliday as a return man and emergency WR or RB.

For some reason, I just think Holliday makes the team. I dunno, though, because I never thought he'd keep Maynard over Hartmann.

Section516
08-30-2011, 10:57 AM
I don't see Kubiak cutting Graham. In limited action last year, Graham filled in nicely.

An injury to OD (dude has had three separate knee injuries) means we would just have Dreesen at TE with Casey as a backup...which means Vickers has to be a FB at that point, and I don't think Kubiak wants that. I see Kubiak as being tickled plum pink with Casey at FB thus far.

Casey making it at FB has pretty much secured a roster spot for Graham.

And we can't send Graham to the PS because someone on here said he was active for exactly 6 games last season...which makes him ineligible for the PS.

My roster projection I posted in the the other thread, IIRC, has spots for 5 WRs and I had one of those going to Jean who is now I.R.'d. I think we cut Yates (QB) and he goes to the PS--I had him in there as a 54th man.

This makes that 5th WR spot go to possibly Bryant Johnson if Kubiak wants to gamble on the guy.

And the 53rd spot would be there for Trindon Holliday as a return man and emergency WR or RB.

For some reason, I just think Holliday makes the team. I dunno, though, because I never thought he'd keep Maynard over Hartmann.

Keeping Yates on the roster doesn't affect anything with the new rule, unless your classifying Leinart as the emergency QB. I wouldn't know where to look the rule up, but can your second string QB be classified as the emergency QB for the roster exemption?

DX-TEX
08-30-2011, 11:08 AM
Keeping Yates on the roster doesn't affect anything with the new rule, unless your classifying Leinart as the emergency QB. I wouldn't know where to look the rule up, but can your second string QB be classified as the emergency QB for the roster exemption?

There is no roster exepmtion this year. You juust have a 54 man roster and the 54th can be your emergency QB or not. Up to the teams.

They will not place Yates on the PS, he would be grabbed by someone.

GP
08-30-2011, 12:08 PM
There is no roster exepmtion this year. You juust have a 54 man roster and the 54th can be your emergency QB or not. Up to the teams.

They will not place Yates on the PS, he would be grabbed by someone.

PencilNeck said this isn't true.

The emergency QB exemption, according to him, is on the GAME DAY active roster. You are allowed 53 players on your true roster, but you only activate something like 45 guys on game day--In other words, not everybody on the 53-man roster suits up every Sunday.

Remember when Terrell Owens, WR Eagles, was having hissy fits and the Eagles "de-activated" him for the remainder of the season? The took him off the active GAME DAY roster which meant he wasn't eligible to play Sundays.

Therefore, unless PencilNeck is wrong, you don't get to add a 54th man to your roster and have it be an emergency 3rd string QB. You're allowed to add the 3rd QB on game day but have him NOT count against the weekly game day maximum roster limit.

EDIT:

This is how it was before the new 2011 CBA was implemented: You do have to designate your 3rd QB in the NFL. That player is not counted against the 45 man game day roster but he can ONLY come in if the starter and the backup get hurt. The starter and the backup is not allowed to return to action if the 3rd starter plays a snap.

And this is what it looks now (46-player game day roster, via 2011 CBA agreement):

NFL drops third quarterback rule, 46 active players on game day

Posted by Michael David Smith on July 22, 2011, 12:53 PM EDT


With everyone focusing on how the league’s finances will change for the 2011 season and beyond, little attention has been paid to the rules changes that will affect the teams on game days. But one change that the owners and players to agree to will come into play on Sunday afternoons.

The owners and players have agreed to expand game day rosters from 45 to 46 active players. The No. 3 quarterback will no longer be an “emergency” inactive player.

In other words, a team can insert its third-string quarterback for a short period at any point in the game, then take him out and put the starter back in. Previously, the first and second quarterbacks couldn’t re-enter the game if the No. 3 quarterback played before the fourth quarter.

That rule came up most prominently last season when the Bears bungled the backup quarterback situation in the NFC Championship Game. After starter Jay Cutler went down and backup Todd Collins struggled, Bears coach Lovie Smith inserted No. 3 quarterback Caleb Hanie into the game just in time for him to hand off twice in the third quarter. Smith’s decision to put Hanie in the game in the third quarter instead of waiting for the fourth meant that if Hanie had suffered an injury, the Bears would have been without a quarterback for the rest of the game.

In 2011, the lack of a third-quarterback designation could be helpful for teams with third-string quarterbacks who are running threats: Now the third-stringer could be inserted as a wildcat quarterback for a play or two and then be replaced by the starter. That could be worth considering for whatever team selects Terrelle Pryor in the supplemental draft.

But the most likely result of the change to 46 active players on Sundays may just be that teams will add another active player at another position and keep two quarterbacks active on Sundays. For most teams, having extra depth at another position will be more useful than the ability to insert the third quarterback into the game whenever they please.

Link to story. (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/22/nfl-drops-third-quarterback-rule-46-active-players-on-game-day/)

GP
08-30-2011, 12:16 PM
You're not required to make your 46th player on game day a QB.

You could go with 2 QBs and use that 46th spot on a player of any other position you want to add.

Wolf6151
08-30-2011, 12:53 PM
Cutting Hartmann makes no sense, he and Maynard have virtually the same stats in the preseason. Maynard is a veteran making 1mil. per year and can only punt, Hartmann makes league minimum approx. 300K and can punt and kick. So Kubiak chose to keep the leagues worst punter because he's a vet. who does one thing poorly instead of keeping a rookie making less money who's more diversified. Someone explain the logic here?

I also don't understand putting all these guys on IR. Besides Studdard, who now gets to ride the gravy train instead of being cut, none of their injuries were serious and worth missing an entire year. Couldn't they have been put on the PUP list where they only miss the first 6 weeks. What did they do, stub their toe?

beerlover
08-30-2011, 12:57 PM
Cutting Hartmann makes no sense, he and Maynard have virtually the same stats in the preseason. Maynard is a veteran making 1mil. per year and can only punt, Hartmann makes league minimum approx. 300K and can punt and kick. So Kubiak chose to keep the leagues worst punter because he's a vet. who does one thing poorly instead of keeping a rookie making less money who's more diversified. Someone explain the logic here?

I also don't understand putting all these guys on IR. Besides Studdard, who now gets to ride the gravy train instead of being cut, none of their injuries were serious and worth missing an entire year. Couldn't they have been put on the PUP list where they only miss the first 6 weeks. What did they do, stub their toe?

All I can respond with is, mark these words, next year the Texans will be forced to spend a pick on a punter in the draft and or the Texans will have a new special teams coordinator :kitten:

CloakNNNdagger
08-30-2011, 12:58 PM
You're not required to make your 46th player on game day a QB.

You could go with 2 QBs and use that 46th spot on a player of any other position you want to add.

Casey will act as the emergency QB (with Yates being inactive) unless, Schaub or the Leinart are injured going into the game. If this is the case then Yates becomes the backup to Leinart and will be active and Casey remains the 3rd emergency QB.

CloakNNNdagger
08-30-2011, 01:12 PM
Cutting Hartmann makes no sense, he and Maynard have virtually the same stats in the preseason. Maynard is a veteran making 1mil. per year and can only punt, Hartmann makes league minimum approx. 300K and can punt and kick. So Kubiak chose to keep the leagues worst punter because he's a vet. who does one thing poorly instead of keeping a rookie making less money who's more diversified. Someone explain the logic here?

I also don't understand putting all these guys on IR. Besides Studdard, who now gets to ride the gravy train instead of being cut, none of their injuries were serious and worth missing an entire year. Couldn't they have been put on the PUP list where they only miss the first 6 weeks. What did they do, stub their toe?

Once a player has practiced or played in the preseason, they are no longer eligible to be on the Reserve PUP list.

Texaninlild
08-30-2011, 01:35 PM
I was pulling for Hartmann but Maynard has shown slightly better punts and rackers has shown the ability to kick the ball out of the endzone too so there was no use for him.

but you have to love the kid's kick coverage.

BigBull17
08-30-2011, 01:44 PM
Writing was on the wall when I saw Maynard holding on field goals Saturday.

GP
08-30-2011, 01:45 PM
Cutting Hartmann makes no sense, he and Maynard have virtually the same stats in the preseason. Maynard is a veteran making 1mil. per year and can only punt, Hartmann makes league minimum approx. 300K and can punt and kick. So Kubiak chose to keep the leagues worst punter because he's a vet. who does one thing poorly instead of keeping a rookie making less money who's more diversified. Someone explain the logic here?

I also don't understand putting all these guys on IR. Besides Studdard, who now gets to ride the gravy train instead of being cut, none of their injuries were serious and worth missing an entire year. Couldn't they have been put on the PUP list where they only miss the first 6 weeks. What did they do, stub their toe?

Agree with you about the Hartmann cut. I noticed Maynard holding for Rackers on FG attempts, though I am sure Hartmann did some of that too.

I wonder if the staff felt Maynard was a better holder???

Kinda' seems weird to keep a guy (Maynard) who was injured last year, IIRC, and costs more vs. the young guy who can do multiple jobs.

BY THE WAY: I watched Hartmann punt vs. 49ers this previous preseason game. From the point on the field where his foot made contact with the ball, to where the returner fielded the punt, it was 54 yards of territory INTO THE WIND. Isn't that a pretty good punt in those windy conditions?

GP
08-30-2011, 01:46 PM
Writing was on the wall when I saw Maynard holding on field goals Saturday.

LOL. We posted at the same time, and we pretty much stated a similar view on it.

ChampionTexan
08-30-2011, 01:53 PM
I also don't understand putting all these guys on IR. Besides Studdard, who now gets to ride the gravy train instead of being cut, none of their injuries were serious and worth missing an entire year. Couldn't they have been put on the PUP list where they only miss the first 6 weeks. What did they do, stub their toe?

You can't place a player on the PUP list once they've participated in a practice, so none of the players placed on IR were PUP list eligible for 2011.

As to the IR - there's at least a couple of reasons that could explain why these guys ended up there. First, I don't think you can waive an injured player without some sort of settlement involved. If you haven't reached a settlement, then the only way to keep them from counting against the 80 (and eventually 53) man roster limit is to put them on IR - after which you can work on reaching an injury settlement if you want to release them. This could apply to anyone on this list, but in my eyes, Darling is the most likely candidate/victim of this. My understanding is that typically the injury settlement is the equivalent of the players salary through the time he is estimated to be healthy enough to resume playing. If that's the case, there may have been no other option with Studdard. Secondly, if a player has more than one year left on their contract, the IR list becomes a risk-free practice squad (with the not insignifiicant difference that they're not allowed to practice). It protects the player from being acquired by other teams, but exempts them from counting against the 80 (and eventually 53) man roster. Both Shelley Smith and Jean are prime candidates for this - even if their injuries weren't that serious (and I have no idea if they were or weren't), the Texans could have viewed these two as guys with potential for the future, but not quite ready to fill a role in 2011.

All speculation, but aside from salaries counting agains the cap (and all of these guys are minimum - or very close to minimum - salary guys), there's not much downside.

Corrosion
08-30-2011, 02:04 PM
I don't see Kubiak cutting Graham. In limited action last year, Graham filled in nicely.

An injury to OD (dude has had three separate knee injuries) means we would just have Dreesen at TE with Casey as a backup...which means Vickers has to be a FB at that point, and I don't think Kubiak wants that. I see Kubiak as being tickled plum pink with Casey at FB thus far.

Casey making it at FB has pretty much secured a roster spot for Graham.


And we can't send Graham to the PS because someone on here said he was active for exactly 6 games last season...which makes him ineligible for the PS.

I think Graham makes the team too .

Who isnt just tickled pink over what Casey has done at FB .... Thats going to create a whole lot of problems for defenses , they absolutely have to account for that guy. I saw a thread asking about him being a sleeper in the fantasy football section and most said he had little value .... I dont know a thing about FF but I do think Casey is going to get a lot of action and put up some crazy numbers recieving.

Im damn sure not mad at the team for drafting .... so many TE's after his move to FB and Dickerson moving to WR. Im almost shocked they didnt take another this year .... almost disappointed :heh:



My roster projection I posted in the the other thread, IIRC, has spots for 5 WRs and I had one of those going to Jean who is now I.R.'d. I think we cut Yates (QB) and he goes to the PS--I had him in there as a 54th man.

This makes that 5th WR spot go to possibly Bryant Johnson if Kubiak wants to gamble on the guy.

And the 53rd spot would be there for Trindon Holliday as a return man and emergency WR or RB.

For some reason, I just think Holliday makes the team. I dunno, though, because I never thought he'd keep Maynard over Hartmann.

I really think that Yates makes the team .... How he does in extended action Thursday will give us a better idea of where he's at with the offense.

Has Hilliday gotten on the field at all so far ? Talk about being invisable .... I dont think they keep a return specialist this season. Too many other guy's can field punts and kickoffs just dont seem so important , I think once the season starts teams will play it much closer to the vest downing most of these returns we've seen start 8 yards deep.


5th WR , hell I dont know if they keep five the way things look. Its possible they pick one up from the waiver wire if none of them step up. Have to wait and see who gets cut.


I wanted to see Hartmann beat out Maynard too to begin the preseason , after watching him kick back to back line drives on kickoffs Vs the Aints was his un-doing. Add to that Maynard being a better directional kicker , it was an easy choice.
Kinda sucks because after watching Hartmann booming punts and kicks on his youtube video's , its obvious he has a big leg. He's just not "ready" for the big show yet. Maybe his taking time to work on kicking off took away from his working on punting .... the result is he got cut.

Wolf6151
08-30-2011, 02:17 PM
Why wasn't Holliday cut? He's done nothing this year in preseason, and very close to nothing last years preseason. I'll gladly take his place and get paid 300K to get massages and watch TV in the trainers room. Are they possibly working on an injury settlement so that he can be cut and go work for Burger King.

CloakNNNdagger
08-30-2011, 03:02 PM
Why wasn't Holliday cut? He's done nothing this year in preseason, and very close to nothing last years preseason. I'll gladly take his place and get paid 300K to get massages and watch TV in the trainers room. Are they possibly working on an injury settlement so that he can be cut and go work for Burger King.

If they cut him after an injury settlement, he could be able to go out and buy himself a Burger King Franchise.


********************

Just in case anyone is interested in gaining an understanding of how the injury settlement process works, this is the best explanation I came across a couple of months ago when I was curious.

From THE NATIONAL FOOTBALL POST:

An NFL Agent's Story: Negotiating the Injury Settlement
By
Jack Bechta
(Contributor) on August 14, 2009
National Football Post

Agents don’t get a lot of calls from their clients during the first half of camp, but when they do it’s usually bad news. In most cases, it’s about an injury.

When a good vet gets injured, the team goes the extra mile to do everything possible to get him back and ready. It will save him a roster spot and wait until he recovers.

If it’s very bad, it will place him on the PUP (physically unable to perform) reserve list in hopes of getting him back by Week 7 of the regular season, the first week that PUP reserved players either have to be moved to the 53-man roster, released or put on injured reserve (IR).

If you’re an undrafted free agent, a late-round draft pick or a street free agent, you may get treated a lot differently. It’s the difference between flying first class and coach (and getting the middle seat).

For players who go on IR, it’s pretty cut and dried. They’re lost to that team for the season. However, if they’re released at some point after being placed on IR, it’s because, in the team’s opinion, they’re healthy enough to play and are then free to sign with another team.

THE INJURY SETTLEMENT

One of the most important roles of an agent is to shine when his client gets hurt during camp, especially if he’s a down-the-line player who’s already a long shot to make the team. When a player in this category suffers a serious injury (out for six weeks or more), the team wants to part ways quickly and wash its hands of the liability.

When a team calls an agent and says it wants to do an “injury settlement,” that means the agent and either the GM or salary-cap manager have to come up with a time frame they think would be equivalent to the duration of the player’s injury.

This process is greatly flawed because you have two non-medical professionals trying to forecast the healing time of an injury based on the team doctor’s prognosis. It’s the agent’s job to tell the team that the player would like a second opinion. Teams must agree to a second opinion but don’t always like it because 80 percent of the time the second doctor forecasts a much longer recovery.

Once both doctors’ opinions are in, a negotiation for the injury settlement begins. If the team doctor thinks the player will be fully recovered in six weeks and the second-opinion doctor says 10 weeks, both parties may agree on an eight-week settlement.

So if a player was hurt on Aug. 15, he would be paid as if he was on the roster until Week 4 of the regular season. He’s then paid for four preseason games and four-sixteenths of what his salary would have been for that season.

These are not always simple negotiations.

Sometimes, the spread in medical opinions can be as much as 10 weeks to three months. I have an internal policy not to attempt an injury settlement if there’s a prognosis of 10 weeks or more.

I would prefer to put the responsibility on the team to carry the player on IR until it can either prove the player is healthy or the player tells me he’s healthy enough to play. I basically don’t want to play doctor and try to predict recovery times. When I tried it as a younger agent, I was wrong 60 percent of the time.

These negotiations can also become testy at times. When a team has an injured player it brought in strictly as a camp guy, it hates being stuck with the liability of rehabbing the player and paying him a contract. It will aggressively pursue a short injury settlement.

Additionally, some teams will even pressure the agent into taking an inferior deal with threats of: “We’ll never sign another one of your players again if you don’t take this deal.”

APStewart Bradley is on IR for '09.

In 2000, I represented a seventh-round pick who suffered a concussion during the second week of camp. Three days later, the NFC West division team threw him back into practice, and he suffered another concussion. Seven days after that, he went back into live action and suffered a third concussion.

Although the player knew he never should have returned to practice, he felt he was under pressure to show the coaches he was worthy of making the team.

After a second opinion, I asked the GM (who’s now out of the league) to place my client on IR for the year for his own good. He would also earn his full salary, which, although important, wasn’t the reason I wanted him moved to IR.

The GM had another opinion. He told me that my client was faking the injuries, was conning the team and the doctors, and he was going to cut him without any consideration of pay.

I then told the GM that if he did that, I would file a grievance with the NFL Players Association and hold the team accountable for my client’s injury and salary. He began screaming at me that I was in on the “scam” and that if I did file a grievance he would never sign or draft one of my players again.

All I could really do was laugh and tell him that I had to follow protocol, not play doctor, and do what was in the best interests of my client.

We eventually had several other medical specialists confirm the concussions and won the grievance for my client’s full salary. The player retired, and the team drafted another of my clients two years later—Business as usual.

Many agents who take inferior injury settlements wind up getting fired when the recovery time is much longer than the settlement time. A seasoned agent will always proceed based on a worst-case scenario for his client.

Marcus
08-30-2011, 03:33 PM
So, does anyone have any info as to why LeStar Jean was put on IR? I haven't heard anything about him since the 1st preseason game. Was he hurt in that game?

badboy
08-30-2011, 04:07 PM
Why wasn't Holliday cut? He's done nothing this year in preseason, and very close to nothing last years preseason. I'll gladly take his place and get paid 300K to get massages and watch TV in the trainers room. Are they possibly working on an injury settlement so that he can be cut and go work for Burger King.If Holliday has been hurt how much did you expect him to do? :kitten:

CloakNNNdagger
08-30-2011, 04:12 PM
So, does anyone have any info as to why LeStar Jean was put on IR? I haven't heard anything about him since the 1st preseason game. Was he hurt in that game?

He sustained a "shoulder injury." Most any shoulder injury is going to take a WR out for a prolonged period of time, with or without the need for surgery.

Wolf6151
08-30-2011, 04:37 PM
If Holliday has been hurt how much did you expect him to do? :kitten:


I remember last year at training camp Kubiak was complaining about Holliday, saying that if he were to make the team he'd have to do it at something more than just a kick returner. They were trying to teach him to be a WR in camp last year but he sucked at it and even sucked terribly at kick returning, he couldn't catch the ball. In 1.5 yrs. of sucking money out of the Texans I'd expect more than what Holliday has provided. Why wasn't this joke cut last year and why was he even brought into training camp this year if he couldn't play? I'm sure McNair isn't to happy about paying a guy 300K to sit in the jacuzzi, get a massage, and watch TV in the trainers room.

Perki-Perk
08-30-2011, 04:44 PM
I'm sure McNair isn't to happy about paying a guy 300K to sit in the jacuzzi, get a massage, and watch TV in the trainers room.

Why not, that's what Hot Tub likes to do?

Rey
08-30-2011, 04:44 PM
We have carried 5 players between the TE and FB positions before. I think Vickers makes the team and I actually think that over the course of a season he will get his share of snaps.

Corrosion
08-30-2011, 05:27 PM
He sustained a "shoulder injury." Most any shoulder injury is going to take a WR out for a prolonged period of time, with or without the need for surgery.

Do you think it was also a way to hold onto him rather than cutting or trying to sneak him onto the PS ? Is that in the realm of possibility ??

The Pencil Neck
08-30-2011, 05:30 PM
You're not required to make your 46th player on game day a QB.

You could go with 2 QBs and use that 46th spot on a player of any other position you want to add.

Exactly. They effectively just upped the number of active players by one and removed the emergency QB designation.

So now there aren't any weird rules about if your #1 QB goes down and you decide to play your #3QB then your #1 QB can't go back into the game.

It's all much simpler this way.

welsh texan
08-30-2011, 05:36 PM
Why wasn't Holliday cut? He's done nothing this year in preseason, and very close to nothing last years preseason. I'll gladly take his place and get paid 300K to get massages and watch TV in the trainers room. Are they possibly working on an injury settlement so that he can be cut and go work for Burger King.

Trindon doesn't have the required height to work at BK, he wouldn't be able to reach the patty into the broiler. :whip:

CloakNNNdagger
08-30-2011, 05:39 PM
Do you think it was also a way to hold onto him rather than cutting or trying to sneak him onto the PS ? Is that in the realm of possibility ??

Absolutely! But a shoulder injury is one that will potentially give WRs long term problems if not given time to properly rest/treat. Few, even minor shoulder injuries will not hinder a player from raising his arms. Without this ROM, WRs are essentially drop machines.

I think the Texans see something very special in Jean, and are not going to chance losing him to long term injury or waiver on his way to the PS. With that said, if he were totally healthy, he would be on the active roster probably competing for #2 WR. I believe that of all the WRs that have had in camp, he is the most likely to mirror AJ.

Corrosion
08-30-2011, 06:24 PM
Absolutely! But a shoulder injury is one that will potentially give WRs long term problems if not given time to properly rest/treat. Few, even minor shoulder injuries will not hinder a player from raising his arms. Without this ROM, WRs are essentially drop machines.

I think the Texans see something very special in Jean, and are not going to chance losing him to long term injury or waiver on his way to the PS. With that said, if he were totally healthy, he would be on the active roster probably competing for #2 WR. I believe that of all the WRs that have had in camp, he is the most likely to mirror AJ.

I get the same idea about Jean .... which is why I really believe that is why he's on IR ....