PDA

View Full Version : Travis Johnson? No one suspected that


gtexan02
04-23-2005, 03:36 PM
what do you think?

Grid
04-23-2005, 03:36 PM
OK!

I know nothing about this kid. Can we get some info on him? Ive heard his name but had no idea that we were so high on him.

Fletch
04-23-2005, 03:37 PM
bullsh*t pick

gtexan02
04-23-2005, 03:37 PM
Comes down to us trading derrick jonson for travis johnson and a 3rd rounder next year. can't believe we passed on pollack, spears, clayton, barnes, etc....so many other good options

AndreJ
04-23-2005, 03:39 PM
Lmao im speechless, im just sitting here in my chair and contemplating life. I dont know what to think>! Im seriously at a loss for words. Hope he works out for us thats about all that can come to mind. (It took me a good 5 min to write this)

F-minus67
04-23-2005, 03:40 PM
Well, he did put up good numbers against top compition, so he can't be that bad. I guess we better start getting use to the fact that his is coming here and DJ isn't.

texanfan2002114
04-23-2005, 03:42 PM
Well, he did put up good numbers against top compition, so he can't be that bad. I guess we better start getting use to the fact that his is coming here and DJ isn't.

I agree with you!! The Texans didn't need another LB. They needed someone up front to help stop the run. I like the pick!!
:thumbup

MikeMc
04-23-2005, 03:42 PM
Total shocker! Why did they not trade down again? He is probably no better than a 2nd rd pick! OMFG!!

O.G.
04-23-2005, 03:42 PM
bullsh*t pick

Totally agreed. We used our only pick in the first two rounds on that? What about Spears, Clayton, Pollard, White.......and that is all we could think off what a brain fart.

texanfan2002114
04-23-2005, 03:43 PM
Total shocker! Why did they not trade down again? He is probably no better than a 2nd rd pick! OMFG!!

Wrong!! He was rated very high by several teams!!

pilottim
04-23-2005, 03:44 PM
TJ had 3 whole sacks last year. He is a one year wonder. He had 3 whole tackles for loss his junior year.

HORRIBLE PICK

Shaun Cody had almost 3 sacks in the orange bowl last year. He rules the back field. We will regret this draft like we have all our 2nd and 3rd round picks.

Janus3
04-23-2005, 03:44 PM
I agree with you!! The Texans didn't need another LB. They needed someone up front to help stop the run. I like the pick!!
:thumbup

thank you, just because he's not a texas boy and doesn't play in the big 12 doesn't mean he's not good. TJ doesnt have big numbers cuz HE'S A HOLE CLOSER. the linebackers get the tackles. Johnson disrupts the play.

texanfan12
04-23-2005, 03:45 PM
sucks a**! We'll probably wait 4 more hours for them to draft a kicker in teh 3rd...I'm gonna go get ready for the Rockets game

Janus3
04-23-2005, 03:46 PM
Total shocker! Why did they not trade down again? He is probably no better than a 2nd rd pick! OMFG!!

lol, yeah, he was the #1 DT on many boards with castillo being the one battling him for the top spot, bbut castillo was injured much of last year.

jr0ck
04-23-2005, 03:46 PM
TJ had 3 whole sacks last year

since the 3-4 is supposed to be a sack generating system for the DL :rolleyes:

that being said, i would have prefered spears but in CC i trust...

Holden135
04-23-2005, 03:46 PM
I know a lot of people don't like this pick but he is a big body that will help our horrid rush defense. He fits the 3-4 defense well and in the short time the texans have been a team we have done pretty well in the first round. Give this guy a chance. Last year i wasn't too happy with D-rob and look how he turned out. Now i wonder where we go with our next pick.

fresno8
04-23-2005, 03:47 PM
Wow. We could have traded down to get this guy. I have been @ a loss for words for 10 minutes. I'm glad we addressed d-line, but why not trade down even 3 picks again and get a pick this year. We passed on Clayton, Spears, Pollack, Barron, this list goes on. I hope he is good I don't know a lot about him so I don't want to pass judgement on him yet.

SDBoltz
04-23-2005, 03:47 PM
you passed up DJ lol we got merriman and i am moooore than happy. TJ was the wrong pick could have gotten him in the second maybe 3rd round

PapaL
04-23-2005, 03:47 PM
Castillo - Wasn't he the steriod guy?

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
04-23-2005, 03:47 PM
Bummed that we didnt draft DJ when we had the chance to but I still like the pick.

SA Fan
04-23-2005, 03:48 PM
c'mon guys. Haven't you learned?
When it comes to CC in the first round it's:
Don't try to predict
Try not to be surprised.
And once the selection is made you shut your mouth, sit on your hands and watch his genius at work in the season.

:wiggle:


Personally, I would have liked to see the texans trade down into the second round.
First because of the tepid condition of the first round in this draft.

Second because of the PB Trade. With this slection, Houston has effectively selected 2 first rounders 2 years in a row. this to me sounds likec guaranteeing a "catch and release" program for our 1st rounders.

Third for the continued need for added depth at the OL/DL positions.

Fletch
04-23-2005, 03:48 PM
wecould have gotten that rat 5-10 picks later and people were shopping for our pick!!

Janus3
04-23-2005, 03:50 PM
Castillo - Wasn't he the steriod guy?

yep, he sure was.

blockhead83
04-23-2005, 03:51 PM
Obviously Casserly and Co. have alot of faith in our current LB's. They probably feel Peek will come into his own as well as Babin this year, with Greenwood and Wong being solid in the middle. I agree with this pick, although I didn't see it coming. Our DL is aging, often injured, and hasn't been very productive. For those of you questioning Johnson's numbers, remember a DLineman in a 3-4 scheme's job isn't to get sacks, it's to clog the LOS, and create opportunities for the LB's. If T. Johnson can do that for us, he makes not only our DL better, but every linebacker we have becomes more dangerous. I'm not jumping for joy, but after considering it I think this could work out very well. I wasn't that psyched about Dunta until I actually saw him play...

keyfro
04-23-2005, 03:56 PM
you put travis johnson and antwan peek on the field at the sametime we have a dangerous duo on the field

ocd
04-23-2005, 03:56 PM
Okay I've calmed down.

We need help BIGTIME in the trenches and we all know it. Our D line is injured every year and this will only make our secondary look very good because he's gonna occupy 2 O linemen.

Remember the phrase...show me a great secondary and I'll show you an even better D line. We've taken a step in the right direction.

royce1054
04-23-2005, 03:56 PM
well maybe he can be in the rotation and give a good pass rush. I was surprised at first but this means Peeks is your starter. I wonder if the Texans arent sure about Paynes knee. I will try to be optimistic about this pick.

Janus3
04-23-2005, 04:00 PM
Derrick Johnson, OLB, Texas Grade
The Chiefs had to go defense, and Johnson fills that need. The problem with him is that he is a run-around defender, a guy who doesn't take on blocks. Is he tough enough to be a star in the NFL? That's the question many scouts have about Johnson. C

EXACTLY

BigDTexansFan
04-23-2005, 04:04 PM
you passed up DJ lol we got merriman and i am moooore than happy. TJ was the wrong pick could have gotten him in the second maybe 3rd round


Didn't you guys REALLY want Ware and had to watch Dallas steal him away because Grandpa Schotttenheimer was afraid to trade up :listening

O.G.
04-23-2005, 04:07 PM
well maybe he can be in the rotation and give a good pass rush. I was surprised at first but this means Peeks is your starter. I wonder if the Texans arent sure about Paynes knee. I will try to be optimistic about this pick.

You bring up a good point with Payne's knee and other injury. If we got the best DT on the board, then I can't help but be happy although I wasn't a few seconds ago. There are still some good receivers in the draft and running backs as well, the question is who do we pick now........in the 3rd?

royce1054
04-23-2005, 04:11 PM
Yeah this is good year 4 WR

dtran04
04-23-2005, 04:59 PM
On another note, gaining a 3rd was a great move (if TJ was who we targeted, which it seemed like). The whole Orlando Pace deal made NO worried that we and CAR would pick up the two OT's.

ledzeppelin229
04-23-2005, 05:53 PM
Dont know if this was mentioned, but weren't a lot of people knocking Richard Seymour when he was drafted because he only had like 3 sacks the season before the draft? Give the guy a chance to play.

edo783
04-23-2005, 06:26 PM
Can't say I wasn't surprised by the pick at the time, but we all knew going in that we needed help on the D-line and we just picked up the highest rated DT in the draft. Not a glam type of pick, but I think a good one that addressed a REAL need with a top rated player. Hard to ask for more.

MikeMc
04-23-2005, 07:17 PM
Was it just me or did the Texans lose two of their top LBs from last year, not DL! This guy better be the next coming of Casey Hampton for the 3-4 defense, because why else draft him (or any DL for a 3-4 D) in the first rd?

Genius of Casserly?

2002 - David Carr - (Has yet to prove his worth, after 3 years...a bust!)

2003 - Andre Johnson - (great pick - obvious pick as well, Rogers was rated #1 WR?)

2004 - Dunta Robinson - (great addition and top "need" for aging secondary)

2004 - Jason Babin - (4 sacks, whoopie do!)

2005 - Travis Johnson - we'll have to wait and see. Depth needed on DL, but 1st rd pick?

Sudds
04-23-2005, 07:45 PM
Mike Mc:

You've never played football before have you?

After calling Carr a bust and mocking Babin as a rookie, you need some serious help. Calm down and realize that CC has built this team the right way. Calm down.

dalemurphy
04-23-2005, 07:46 PM
not funny. sorry.

Honoring Earl 34
04-23-2005, 07:56 PM
:thumbup Go somewhere Coogs !

blockhead83
04-23-2005, 08:01 PM
My expectations for our '05-'06 sack numbers are rising quickly. With Peek becoming a full-time starter, Babin having some experience at OLB, Buchanon there to help by the pass rushers time, and now TJ to take up more blockers, there's no excuse for not improving our status as a bad pass rushing team.

MorKnolle
04-23-2005, 08:02 PM
I am at an absolute loss for words. Sure we already have a bunch of linebackers but Derrick Johnson is good enough to anchor your defense around for several years to come. Almost everyone wanted him but didn't think he'd fall to us, then he did and we traded him away for a future third round pick and a decent DT. I was at the draft party and about half of the people got up and left as soon as we traded the pick away, and everyone else left amidst a shower of boos after we made our pick. After DJ was taken I don't know who would have been a good pick. They liked Pollack previously but that doesn't make much sense due to the fact he'd be playing the exact role that we brought Babin in to play last year, albeit he could probably do a better job of it. Travis Johnson doesn't make a whole lot of sense given that we just resigned Seth Payne for $22 million, which I also don't understand, but we are obviously committed to go with him for now. I couldn't have argued with drafting Clayton to get a third good receiver or with Spears as a big DE since Gary Walker is old and not particularly good anymore. Either way I don't know how you can pass on Johnson unless they were assuming he'd still be there, but still I don't know why you chance it for a future third pick.

smb114
04-23-2005, 08:18 PM
its not his fault you see dj as the best player because you worshipped him at UT. sure i have my doubts about travis johnson, but they have many more talented options at LB than they have on the line. also they picked him and resigned payne because johnson can play end, also. honestly i dont think they should have resigned payne but thats an entire different issue but yes johnson can play end, because in the 3-4 playing end is similar to play DT in the 4-3. as for wide recievers, we have much more pressing needs. picking a wr at 16 would have been saying that having a young option who can eventually fill in at the 3rd or 2nd reciever spot in a few years is more important than finding an immediate starter on defense. they have a superstar in andre, a serviceable player in gaffney, an inconsistent playmaker in bradford, and player who is waiting to breakout in derick armstrong. think drafting johnson after resigning payne doesnt make sense? how about drafting clayton or white after resigning bradford.....who is your 3rd reciever. at least payne is a projected starter, and has injury problems. what would casserly say if clayton had a bad camp, and his 1st round pick was 5th on the reciever chart. travis johnson may not end up being spectacular like dunta and andre, and you can be dissapointed that DJ didnt go to houston, but just because you cant wear your burnt orange derrick johnson jersey to reliant stadium doesnt mean it is a bad pick. it was a need based pick, and for those of you saying hes a 2nd or 3rd round talent, well you just dont know anything about football and should read up before making ignorant statements such as that.

nunusguy
04-23-2005, 08:19 PM
I am at an absolute loss for words. Sure we already have a bunch of linebackers but Derrick Johnson is good enough to anchor your defense around for several years to come. Almost everyone wanted him but didn't think he'd fall to us, then he did and we traded him away for a future third round pick and a decent DT.
How would you have a clue about DJs potential to make a contribution in our Defense in the NFL? This Draft is not based on popularity contests. Cass & Capers butts are on the line and they are picking players who will help our team the most to win games, not satisfy a popularity contest. DJ was right there for them at 13, and they passed. That's reality. End of story.

cadahnic
04-23-2005, 08:34 PM
I hope TJ is really good. I mean it was a suprise move and I dont think they knew that KC would pick up DJ. They thought like everyone else at the draft and at home that they would get someone to play opposite surtain. I knew that they were going to get DJ as soon as CAR picked Thomas Davis who KC wanted more. But you gamble and that is the breaks, unfortunately we will be watching DJ make plays for KC but what the hell you win some you lose some. Think of it like this we picked up something we needed and we got younger on the D-Line. Walker is gone next year and we will likely pick another D-Linemen next year. At least we will have a high pick to get a good OT.

blockhead83
04-23-2005, 08:40 PM
If they had wanted DJ they would have taken him at 13, there's no way they took a third round pick in next year's draft to move down 3 spots if they were as in love with DJ as everyone in cyberspace was. You never know until they actually hit the field, but Casserly and Capers obviously didn't think DJ would work out in our scheme....neither did the other first 14 teams (many of which run a 3-4).

Hervoyel
04-23-2005, 09:04 PM
I keep seeing people pointing at those of us who wanted the Texans to pull the trigger on DJ at #13 and calling them "homers" who were just in love with him because he played at UT which is completely ridiculous.

He's a good enough player who's done enough to merit being selected at that spot and honestly not many people felt he'd be there when the Texans went on the clock.

When I see the Texans passing on DJ after kicking both of their inside linebackers to the curb I can't help but be a little confused. Then I see them taking a Travis Johnson at 16 and I wonder about the dollars the Texans spent on Walker and Payne. Probably more about Walker really. Something smells here and I can't quite figure it out.

TexanWolverine
04-23-2005, 09:08 PM
If they had wanted DJ they would have taken him at 13, there's no way they took a third round pick in next year's draft to move down 3 spots if they were as in love with DJ as everyone in cyberspace was. You never know until they actually hit the field, but Casserly and Capers obviously didn't think DJ would work out in our scheme....neither did the other first 14 teams (many of which run a 3-4).


And I guess we'll never know for sure since I dont expect the double C's to come out and say "We really wanted Derrick Johnson...But we got greedy and messed up." Heheh. :shocked

blockhead83
04-23-2005, 09:11 PM
Yea, I'll admit when DJ was there and we were on the clock it was the only time in my recent history where I'd describe my mood as "giddy". However, I've been excessively happy with Casserly's first round choices thus far for the Texans, and I have no reason to believe this won't have similar results. Looking back on it now we got our favorite DLineman in the draft, a player who anchored the best rushing defense in the country, and an extra third rounder to boot. IMO, one good defensive lineman can amplify a team's overall pass rush more than any one linebacker, and that's what our defense needs the most....a pass rush. Let's hope this doesn't go down as one of the great debackles (sp?) in Texans history, I don't think it will.

blockhead83
04-23-2005, 09:13 PM
And I guess we'll never know for sure since I dont expect the double C's to come out and say "We really wanted Derrick Johnson...But we got greedy and messed up." Heheh. :shocked

Casserly has a history of aggressively going for players he really wants (ie. Jason Babin), which stands to reason that he wouldn't pass on DJ if he just wanted to draft him three spots later. Just my opinion, but I'd bet the farm that Casserly didn't want to take DJ as much as Travis Johnson.

Vinny
04-23-2005, 09:14 PM
I'd agree with that. I think it is silly to think we traded back and targeted one guy. I don't even do that in mocks...so I'm sure Casserly didn't do that as well.

beerlover
04-23-2005, 09:24 PM
I'd agree with that. I think it is silly to think we traded back and targeted one guy. I don't even do that in mocks...so I'm sure Casserly didn't do that as well.

seems to me thats exactly what they did, but lately I've been wrong alot!

GM Charley Casserly

"We opened the day with the 13th pick in the first round. Our feelings were that there would be a group of players available at pick number 13 that we liked. That was the case, so we decided to trade back. We would have taken Travis Johnson at the 13th pick, but New Orleans offered us a chance to move back with an extra pick for next year’s draft, a third round pick, and we felt comfortable that Johnson would still be available three picks later. When we arrived at the 16th pick, additional trade offers were available to us, but the offers were picks for next year or post third round. We felt if we moved back again the percentages were against us to get Johnson. He is the player we targeted for this area in the draft, so we decided to go ahead and pull the trigger at that point. Come to find out after the pick, another team had him on the board and if we would have moved back, we would not have gotten him."

nunusguy
04-23-2005, 09:30 PM
When I see the Texans passing on DJ after kicking both of their inside linebackers to the curb I can't help but be a little confused.
Hey Herv, we were all blown away by the Pub about DJ - but he's obviously
just not that good in the Texans estimation because we do need help at LB, but they passed on him bigger than hell. I was really surprised when the Cowboys passed on him, but then the light went on when we did tfhe same thing at 13. I would have bet 1,000 bucks (honestly, maybe 5K), that DJ goes
off the Board before Benson. I dunno....overrate one guy but underrate another. Will be interesting to see how their NFL careers play out.

aj.
04-23-2005, 09:37 PM
...
When I see the Texans passing on DJ after kicking both of their inside linebackers to the curb I can't help but be a little confused..Morlon Greenwood is playing the position that DJ would play in the Texans system. G'wood is not ideally suited for the Buc so the question then would be what are we going to do with this new FA we just signed to replace Sharper. Now if they hadn't signed G'wood - no brainer.

MikeMc
04-23-2005, 10:50 PM
Sudds, I have played football before, but my question is this; how does that phrase:

"Mike Mc:

You've never played football before have you?

After calling Carr a bust and mocking Babin as a rookie, you need some serious help. Calm down and realize that CC has built this team the right way. Calm down."

... have anything to do with whether or not I played football? Just because half of the HS boys in Texas played football does not mean they have some superior knowledge about the sport, just that they played.

Babin was a reach and that was proven by him only having 4 sacks. The purpose for the Texans moving up (trading away several picks) to get him was because he was the Edge rusher their defense sorely needed. Oops, he did not produce accordingly.

Carr's numbers during his career:

PASSING STATS

2004 285-466-14 3531 yrds, 16 TD 83.5 QB rating
2003 167-295-13 2013 yrds, 9 TD 69.5
2002 233-444-15 2592 yrds, 9 TD 62.8

Seeing that he was the #1 overall pick, and with those numbers, would appear to be a bust. Maybe you would rather wait 2 more years. Not me. After three years, the best he can do is an civilianesque 83.5 QB rating and 16 TDs! Hell, Tony Banks could have done that.

--- and with your vast football knowledge, what is "the right way" of building a NFL team? Having aging players with huge contracts, trading away draft picks to acquire "hole pluggers" until better players come along?

Casserly's strategy has been exposed (by himself, no less). His belief is that only 30% of 2nd & 3rd round picks become starters (maybe that is because he is drafting them!). Therefore, he'd rather trade away draft picks (the future of a team) for Mid-level players. Look at last year's draft..he traded 2nd and 3rd round picks to the Titans (div rival) to move up and get Babin.

I am ashamed to say that 7-9 is the best the Texans will be for awhile.

aj.
04-23-2005, 10:56 PM
His belief is that only 30% of 2nd & 3rd round picks become starters (maybe that is because he is drafting them!). What he said was 30% of third round picks become starters (no mention of second rounders). Based on the 2002 draft and three years for players to prove themselves, it's not just his belief - it's fact - since 9 of the 33 players selected (27%) in the third round of that draft are starters.

MorKnolle
04-23-2005, 11:37 PM
I think Derrick Johnson was still by far the best player we could have taken at #13. If they were wanting another DL the whole time I think Spears probably would have been a better fit, and I do agree that our DL needs some help. I don't know what they were doing with the linebackers this whole off-season. Cutting Sharper was questionable despite his criticism of the team's coaching (which btw I agree with) and cutting Foreman, especially after being offered a draft pick for him was questionable. I am not very sure why they signed Greenwood in the first place, especially for that much money. I think Peek could become a very good LB and would have liked to see them start Peek, Sharper, Wong, and Babin next season. If they felt the need to bring in another LB I don't know why they didn't go after Kendrell Bell or Anthony Simmons rather than Greenwood, other than that they I thought they would cost more money, but they ended up paying Greenwood an excessive amount anyways. Up until now I've been very happy with their previous #1 choices and thought they got the best people available each time, although trading back in to get Babin and giving up the rest of our useful picks last year was pretty dumb. This is another example of very poor personnel decisions in my opinion, but we'll have to wait and see how things work out with them. I must admit I no longer think they will make the playoffs this coming season, I doubt it if they even match their 7-9 record from last year.

LBC_Justin
04-23-2005, 11:48 PM
OK doubters,

At some point you have to have faith that the Texans' HUGE scouting department knows a little more than you do about these players.

Sure DJ is a hometown hero...(Heck I even was there in person at the Rose Bowl to see him and Benson kick butt.)... but you don't pass up the #1 DT prospect when it drops to you at #15. Especially when you are dying for some help on the D-line.

Lets look at the end result of the first two rounds of this draft for the Texans.
First Round: Travis Johnson (Best defensive tackle in the draft)
Second Round(Effectively): Phillip B. (Better than any 2nd round corner in the draft.)

Not bad. Not bad at all.

my grade B+

LoNghoRn-TeXaN
04-24-2005, 12:06 AM
[QUOTE=MikeMc]
Babin was a reach and that was proven by him only having 4 sacks. The purpose for the Texans moving up (trading away several picks) to get him was because he was the Edge rusher their defense sorely needed. Oops, he did not produce accordingly.
Carr's numbers during his career:

PASSING STATS

2004 285-466-14 3531 yrds, 16 TD 83.5 QB rating
2003 167-295-13 2013 yrds, 9 TD 69.5
2002 233-444-15 2592 yrds, 9 TD 62.8

Seeing that he was the #1 overall pick, and with those numbers, would appear to be a bust. Maybe you would rather wait 2 more years. Not me. After three years, the best he can do is an civilianesque 83.5 QB rating and 16 TDs! Hell, Tony Banks could have done that.
[QUOTE]

Dear MikeMC:

It seems that you should become the GM of the Texans and rule the Scouting Department as well as the coaches. Jason Babin being a bad pick: Now are you a better 3-4 coach than Dom Capers and know a lot more about 3-4 OLB than him. Because the last time I checked he was a gr8 defensive coach at Pittsburgh and is our Head Coach. He has more than 10 years of experience running the 3-4 defense. Didn't he say that Jason Babin is only the first ever OLB who he put under fire right in his rookie season. He compares him to Kevin Greene and his pass rushing ability, who by the way is third in the all-time sack leaders list. It seems that I trust in Capers and in his decisions and not some random person who really doesn't know anything about football more than a middle schooler does.

As far as the argument over Carr, he is doing very well in the position he's put in. I mean the guy has been running for his life throughout his short nfl career. He doesn't have the luxury to stay put comfortably in the pocket for 4+ seconds and pick out the defense. In games in which the OL provided him ample time (which have been very few) his stats have been amazing and he has shown the ability of a franchise QB. THINK ABOUT THE SECOND HALF OF MINN GAME FROM LAST SEASON!! :listening

wags
04-24-2005, 12:20 AM
I thought New Orleans was trading up for Davis, because both Carolina and KC wanted him. I guess New Orleans feels that Jamaal Brown can catch those backwards passes and run them for first downs. :)

Travis Johnson was a shocker to me. He ain't the sexiest pick, but I can see where he will help us rush the QB in the nickel and dime package. If we can get off the field on third down, then I'm all for it.

MikeMc
04-24-2005, 10:37 AM
L-T, as far as I am concerned, an OLB in the 3-4 is supposed to (designed) get double digit sacks. Babin did not. There have been plenty of rookies get double digit sacks. It is nice that Capers compares him to Kevin Greene, but until he proves it (lives up to it), I will have to reserve any 'kudos" for the pick. Of course I would love to eat my words, but I am a "now" kind of person. Potential means squat!

I am so glad all of you are nut-hugging the GM. That will get you nowhere. I am simply stating my disgust for what he has done with our team. If you cannot see it, then take off your Steel-Blue colored glasses.

As for Carr, do you think he is the only one that faces constant pressure and less than 4 sec. to make a decision/play? Maybe he simply does not have the pocket presence that so many assumed he had. Maybe the coaching staff do not realize he is better suited in a Shotgun formation or rolling out (which is where he has done most of his damage for the Texans).

I am so glad that the money was well spent (last half of the MIN game). So then, he has only been a Franchise-type QB for one halfd of one game? I don;t think so, he has done well in certain situations. But he looks lost out there most of the time, and it is not only because he does not have a top-notch OL. Maybe he creates more sacks than the OL. Look at film, he looks uncomfortable in the pocket and seems to have happy feet and holds on to the ball way too long. He is not a quick decision maker. He does not have very good field vision. All of those have the same combined end result....Sacks.

And nice comments about "middle-school" football knowledge. What is that all about? Is it because I am not sitting here nut-hugging the Texans brass like so many of you? I do not have to be a scout guru to see what is on the field the past 3 years. The Texans are doing what so many bad team have done, over pay for vets, trade away draft picks. Look at the history of the last 20 years. The successful teams utilized their draft picks and were smart with their money (signing underpriced FA, not overpriced). Funny how CC can spin it in the way he knows so many of you will just accept it. He is a genius, in that way, knowing how to dupe so many of you (without you realizing it).

Hey, I am a season ticket holder as well, and I am just pointing out the obvious. I feel that I am not getting my money's worth nor am I getting what was "promised" by the Texans' brass. Call it false advertisement if you will! It's funny how the season tickets increase every year, yet the Texans do not put out a product worthy of such price increases.

Chance_C
04-24-2005, 10:53 AM
Looks like I'm the only one on here that is glad that we don't have DJ. I think he is better suited for a 4-3 defense and last time I checked we run a 3-4. Merriman would have been my choice if available, but he wasn't even available at 13. Also it's quite obvious to me that we need DL help, so when our pick rolled around I thought it was a toss up between Spears and OT Alex Barron. My first choice there would have been Spears. I was surprised when TJ was taken, no doubt about it. I don't know much about Johnson, other than the fact that the Texans liked him over everyone. Rotation player on the DL? Future quality starter maybe? I hope so.

MikeMc
04-24-2005, 11:35 AM
TJ is being looked at to play all 3 spots on the DL, whereas Spears would have solidified one or two spots (LDE or RDE). TJ is being converted from a 4-3 DT to a 3-4 DT/DE, something I think will be harder for him than Spears playing his natural position.

The Texans need to WOW me in day2 to keep me off their butts! Apparently, that is where the true scouting skills shine.

smb114
04-24-2005, 02:12 PM
TJ is being looked at to play all 3 spots on the DL, whereas Spears would have solidified one or two spots (LDE or RDE). TJ is being converted from a 4-3 DT to a 3-4 DT/DE, something I think will be harder for him than Spears playing his natural position.

The Texans need to WOW me in day2 to keep me off their butts! Apparently, that is where the true scouting skills shine.

do you even know what a 3-4 defense is and what its function is? spears would not be playing his natural position because he also would be switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4. switching from DT in a 4-3 to DT in a 3-4 is similar, although it does still require some changes. DL in the 3-4 has pretty much the same function in all 3 spots.....stop the run and occupy blockers. thats what DTs do best and why they are often lined up everywhere on the line in a 3-4. spears is a pass rushing end who played in a 4-3. pass rushing ends in a 3-4 defense dont fit, because they are usually small and can be overpowered by 2 offensive lineman. thats why dallas made a bad pick in spears if they truly are committed to switching to the 3-4. travis johnson was a bit of reach for one simple fact: you dont know him. he never played in a national championship like spears, and you never saw him play. there was a reason he was one of the top rated interior lineman, and he fits a 3-4 perfectly because he is a big run stopper. he wont get sacks, and he doesnt need to get sacks. if he pans out, he will be a great run stopper for years. as for derrick johnson, he doesnt fit for the texans because hes not an inside linebacker. hes an outside pass rusher, and they have plenty of those, and they are all young and at least one will produce. they need a young inside run stopping linebacker, not an outside pass rusher who hovers around the ball and doesnt aggresively attack ball carriers, which is what the 3-4 calls for. as for knocking babin about his pass rushing, that is completely unfair. he was a rookie. babin had a very good rookie season, and he should continue to develop. now the biggest problem the texans have is rushing the passer, but they have many young options at that position, such as antwan peek and babin, who likely will eventually pan out. there is no point in spending another high pick on a pass rush specialist (because in the 3-4 thats what johnson would be) when you havent let the people they have drafted develop. as for vernand morency..........that was an excellent pick. domanick better watch out if he gets hurt morency is the real deal. jerome mathis i dont know much about, but he put up big numbers at the combine, and i dont know much about the center either. but dont knock the 1st round pick until he dissapoints.

MikeMc
04-24-2005, 02:48 PM
lright practice squad man, maybe if you had been around, you would know that I know a thing or two about the 3-4 defense. So it's best to keep your mouth shut with all that noise.

Second of all, Spears has the size and skills to play End in the 3-4, he is not the same as Peppers was our first draft. Spears collapses the pocket, keeps containment, and is very strong (400 lb bench). He would be able to make the transition to DE in a 3-4.

As for TJ, he is making the transition from DT in a 4-3 to DE in a 3-4. There are more responsibilities than you think. He will be occupied by OTs and OGs and must be able to handle them in order for the OLBs to wreck havoc, otherwise, he will be a detriment to the defensive scheme. He is also better suited for a one-gap scheme, not the two-gap scheme of the 3-4. But as it has been said, we all have to wait until he gets on the field, and I would love to eat my words (and concerns).

As for Babin, you said it yourself:

as for knocking babin about his pass rushing, that is completely unfair. he was a rookie. babin had a very good rookie season, and he should continue to develop. now the biggest problem the texans have is rushing the passer, but they have many young options at that position, such as antwan peek and babin, who likely will eventually pan out. there is no point in spending another high pick on a pass rush specialist (because in the 3-4 thats what johnson would be) when you havent let the people they have drafted develop.

Rookie or not, he was brought in to be a pass rush specialist, what the hell does it matter if he is a rookie? Why even draft rookies if you have to cradle them for 2 or 3 years to "allow them to develop"? They are in the NFL, being paid millions of dollars, and we are paying a lot of money (relative) to see them perform. If they do not perform, because we paid our HARD EARNED MONEY, we have every reight to ***** & moan about their poor performance and also complain about the coaching, management & ownership. Otherwise, I'll be more than happy to request my money back on the poor performance this team has shown (and in particular a few highly paid players). I am not going to sit here...and sit here...and sit here...waiting for the team to "pan out". That is BS!

As for Dallas having a great draft, that is true. I feel sorry for the Texans if the Cowboys beat them at their own game (3-4 defense). It seems the Tuna is building his D the right way: Demarcus Ware (OLB), Spears (DE), Chris Canty (DE). All of that from one draft! The Texans have had 3 to build from and what have they produced?? Two OLB that have "potential" but no DL that will help keep blockers off the pass rushers! Not very smart (for those that know how the 3-4 defense works). What happens when Walker/Payne get injured again or retire? We'll have to wait 2 or 3 years for the DL rookies to pan out! GREAT!

WWJD
04-24-2005, 03:11 PM
I was really hoping the Texans would draft either Derrick Johnson or Pollack.

This Johnson guy has had some issues in his past...I thought the Texans tried to stir clear of guys like that.

Oh well. Here's hoping the young man works hard, pans out and has his life in order.

Texas_Thrill
04-24-2005, 03:50 PM
Sadly to say I did call this one. Oh how i wish I hadn't though. I knew we were trading down out of 13....of course as all this unfolded I actually thought M. Williams possibly was going to fall to us at 13. Then to see DJ and T Davis sitting there I was like we gotta still be trading down and pick up Davis at least. Carolina blew that plan up.

I believe we thought davis would fall to 16 to us. I said however we might go johnson since payne is injury prone.

Johnson I hate to say this reminds me of ANDRE WADSWORTH. Great senior year (same school FSU). We'll have to see how this one works out for us. He's a boom or bust kinda player that's for sure.

Texas_Thrill
04-24-2005, 03:55 PM
A football player can play. I'm tired of hearing scheme this scheme that. If you are a true player. You play the game. If you have to be put in the right scheme to be good then u shouldn't be a 1st round pick. go sign as a undrafted free agent.

bigtex77
04-24-2005, 04:02 PM
The Texans need to WOW me in day2 to keep me off their butts! Apparently, that is where the true scouting skills shine.

Sorry, didn't know you owned the team.

royce1054
04-24-2005, 04:06 PM
To be honest i wanted some one else. I was surprised to see the trade down when DJ was there. I think ultimatly we have decided to stay with Peek at OLB. Now to Johnson he will be part of the D-line rotation. I dont see whats so wrong with him i bet he could turn into something good with proper guideance. Morrency will prob be like Jonathan wells was last year. Unless there is an uncertainty about Hollings or Davis. If one doesnt do good enough maybe Morrency gets a chance to play often. Or maybe they drafted him for certain formations or one might be out of the door. This could be the Buffalo thing right here. Mathis should be really good and get his chances... this year he wont get many but next year he will be the #2 WR when Bradford is gone. Drew Hadgdon should be a back up. Ceandris Brown will be Earl's back up. Honestly i dont think we did half bad. I think this year was more drafting for the future than this year. I bet not a single one starts but in 2-3 years i bet 2-3 will be starters.

Marcus
04-24-2005, 04:53 PM
As for Dallas having a great draft, that is true. I feel sorry for the Texans if the Cowboys beat them at their own game (3-4 defense). It seems the Tuna is building his D the right way: Demarcus Ware (OLB), Spears (DE), Chris Canty (DE). All of that from one draft! The Texans have had 3 to build from and what have they produced?? Two OLB that have "potential" but no DL that will help keep blockers off the pass rushers! Not very smart (for those that know how the 3-4 defense works). What happens when Walker/Payne get injured again or retire? We'll have to wait 2 or 3 years for the DL rookies to pan out! GREAT!

Yeah, I can't wait to see the results of this "great experiment."

If you think for one minute that transitioning from a 4-3 to a 3-4 scheme, with a couple of untested rookies thrown in for good measure, will be a walk in the park. . . then you have proven that you don't "know a thing or two about the 3-4 defense".

So it's best to keep your mouth shut with all that noise.

MikeMc
04-24-2005, 05:08 PM
Um, I was comparing what they did in the draft vs. what the Texans did in the draft to help improve the defense.

And no, I don't own the Texans, I was speaking about my complaining and ill-content for what they have done. It seems everyone was saying, "stop getting on CC and Co, let them do what they do best". I questioned what they were doing on the first day, and said they need to WOW me in order to keep me off their butts. Nothing changed much on the 2nd day, although Mathis was a steal. One steal does not make up for the ones they screwed up on!