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View Full Version : If Mario is so 'terrible' at OLB...


House of Pain
08-24-2011, 03:34 AM
why not move him to ILB?

I know it sounds crazy, but if Wade (and Herring) claim they can control who is rushing at all times, then why not have Mario in the Middle and stop this "we can't stop the inside-the-tackle run" nonsense? Mario has established himself as a run stopper on the line, what would change that on the second level? He could still be a devastating pass rush threat and would never have to drop into coverage and use that supposed 'bull rush' of his? We may even move Cushing to the OLB position where he may do a little bit better since he's not pregnant anymore.

:kitten:

Am I crazy?

80tothezone
08-24-2011, 03:41 AM
Honestly I think he could be serviceable but he is pullin down 14 million ..... u can buy a lot of talent for 14 million... I hate to see him go but if he doesn't show anything in game 3 on Saturday we should look at trading him to a 4-3 for a better # 2 cb and some drat pics( not my idea but I agree with texan mike on this one).. We got plenty of what looks to be good talent behind him brooks reed, nading etc ..... like I said though I hope he proves me wrong sat against the niners and blows it up for 2 sacs and and assload of stops .... just don't think he will do it... also mario will line up everywhere so moving him to ilb won't really make a difference plus then you got to worry about him covering a back or slot receiver .... He needs to show up big on saturday and make it worth the 14 mil.

drunkcookie
08-24-2011, 06:02 AM
I don't mind doing what works... if that's moving him to end and having everything else dominoe from there, that's fine...

I'm not trusting in Mario to take to this position (OLB), I'm really just trusting WP to make the best decision for the D...

mussop
08-24-2011, 07:09 AM
I have been saying this for awhile.


I just dont see Mario figuring out OLB anytime soon and we cant afford to not have the best players on the field who give us our best chance to win. If he cant except playing where its best for the team then we should explore trading him. I still believe this move was made to please an unhappy Mario.

People are going to think Im crazy but if we arent going to put him back at DE I would like to see him and Cushing switch positions for a bit to see if he could handle ILB. At least his size would bulk up the middle a little bit. He and the team would be better served with him trying to split Guards and Centers than sitting outside engaged/locked up or trying to run around Tackles IMO.

Some of you older guys might remember a 300 lbs ILB that played for the Steelers back in the day, Levon Kirkland. Dude was a beast.

The way I understand it is that both ILBs are responsible for runners coming through the A and B gaps with the Weak ILB having more pass coverage duties and the Strong ILB (Where I'm suggesting Mario play) having more of a pass-rush role. Everything I have read about Wades version of the 3/4 suggest this. Of course he will have some coverage responsibilities but there are things that could be done to limit this.

Not saying this would defiantly work but it seems like it has more merit than putting him outside where his size is neutralized 99% of the time.



In wades defense average players have racked up big numbers at strong ILB.
Having mOre size in the middle coulnd only help.
Mario's size is being wasted on the outside.
This defense is predicated on speed of the edges. Mario isn't a speed guy.

There are many many reasons Mario would be better in the middle but most here wont discuss it. They will just say, well i'll go with Wades opinion over yours.

DocBar
08-24-2011, 07:18 AM
at his natural 4-3 de position MW was only a devastating passrusher someof the time. As a 3-4 wolb, he's not getting anywhere near the penetration and disruption he got as de. He might make a decent wolb but I, for one, seriously doubt it will be this year he most likely won't be here next year. Since WP's 3-4 is usually a 1 gap system, de should be a better fit for him and still allow him to get sack chances, especially if a good edge rusher is forcing the qb to step up in the pocket.

CloakNNNdagger
08-24-2011, 07:41 AM
I feel Mario overall would be terrible as an inside pass rusher. He demonstrates virtually only one move............a bull rush the long way around the edge. He does not man handle anyone with his hands. When you go up the middle, you better have good hand skills and a variation of moves such as spin moves which Mario does not demonstrate.

Texan_Bill
08-24-2011, 07:43 AM
Who said he was terrible at OLB? He's played the position for roughly 3-4 weeks and looks somewhat uncomfortable right now... So what?

beerlover
08-24-2011, 07:55 AM
Three man fronts are supposed to engage double teams that create the rushing lanes for OLB's. Watch small sample size (15 reps pre-season game one & first half game 2) other than maybe Watt who demanded double teams? Good question for 76Texan. Only way he can dominate is if the front three can take out the trash, in this context, Mario is very good @ taking out the trash & opening lanes while feasting on dinner :fridge:

Tailgate
08-24-2011, 08:34 AM
Who said he was terrible at OLB? He's played the position for roughly 3-4 weeks and looks somewhat uncomfortable right now... So what?

Exactly. Does everyone honestly think Mario has tapped out already at OLB from a few plays in the preseason?

BigBull17
08-24-2011, 08:35 AM
I'll wait till I see an actual game before I'll say he's good/bad/average. Wade hasn't even open the playbook past page 3.

CloakNNNdagger
08-24-2011, 08:56 AM
I'll wait till I see an actual game before I'll say he's good/bad/average. Wade hasn't even open the playbook past page 3.

PAGE 4 PREVIEW

http://websites.idealmarketsolutions.com/websites/21/page4.jpg

Ole Miss Texan
08-24-2011, 08:59 AM
Three man fronts are supposed to engage double teams that create the rushing lanes for OLB's. Watch small sample size (15 reps pre-season game one & first half game 2) other than maybe Watt who demanded double teams? Good question for 76Texan. Only way he can dominate is if the front three can take out the trash, in this context, Mario is very good @ taking out the trash & opening lanes while feasting on dinner :fridge:
I think this is a bad example. Watt is so good a second lineman can't get over in time to help out. Chuck Norris' birth certificate shows JJ Watt is his real father.

Errant Hothy
08-24-2011, 09:04 AM
Who said he was terrible at OLB? He's played the position for roughly 3-4 weeks and looks somewhat uncomfortable right now... So what?

Do you think he's lack of an explosive first step is due to being uncomfortable? I just dont think he's shown any flash in the pass rushing situations, am willing to cut him some slack when dropping into coverage. But he hasn't looked all that impressive in pure pass rushing situations. Yes, he got close to Brees; but close don't men shit. I've seen him get close to Manning for several years now, and we've still only bet them a small handfull of times.

If we going to move MW, moving him to DE would seem to be the most logically place to move him. Now would he want to move there, I doubt it. 43 DE and 34 OLB are positions that get paid and going into a contract year MW is thinking about getting paid. Wasn't Wade talking about making MW a 5 tech when he first go here?

DocBar
08-24-2011, 09:10 AM
Three man fronts are supposed to engage double teams that create the rushing lanes for OLB's. Watch small sample size (15 reps pre-season game one & first half game 2) other than maybe Watt who demanded double teams? Good question for 76Texan. Only way he can dominate is if the front three can take out the trash, in this context, Mario is very good @ taking out the trash & opening lanes while feasting on dinner :fridge:

In WPs system, the dl are one gap penetrators. That's why he thinks we are ok without the road grader that CnD wants. That's why I mentioned MW at de. CnD made some interesting comments on that.

thunderkyss
08-24-2011, 09:11 AM
Am I crazy?

Yes..... I do believe you are.

thunderkyss
08-24-2011, 09:18 AM
If there are really any questions about Mario Williams at OLB, the only real move, would be to put him back at DE.

But if you're looking at your playmakers, you're going to be taking one of them off the field.

JJ Watt, Antonio Smith, Mario Williams.

I want them all on the field as often as possible.

Brooks Reed looks good, & deserve 1st team reps in the preseason. But you're hoping on a prayer if that is your plan going into the season. If he turns out to be legit & truly deserving to be on the field, then it's Connor Barwin who should come off. Not Mario.

Of course I like the idea of kicking Watt inside & removing Cody, or even kicking Smith inside but both of those options (I think) are worse than keeping Mario at OLB.

I remember after our game against Denver...... Battle Red, Mario had 2 sacks (maybe 3). I think he played standing up quite a bit & for the most part, we all asked to see more of it. Now that the Texans have done so, I don't really understand the resistance.

I think if the Texans decided to play Mario at DE we would still be complaining about it.

TexanSam
08-24-2011, 09:42 AM
The reason Mario moved to OLB is because he wanted to rush the QB. He wouldn't get that chance as much as a 3-4 DE. I doubt he'd be willing to move to ILB.

Dutchrudder
08-24-2011, 09:45 AM
Umm, how about moving him back to DE where he has played well for 5 years?

DocBar
08-24-2011, 09:52 AM
Think we, as fans, are getting too emotional about this. No one is saying MW is a scrub who needs to be cut. Those of us who don't like this move are universally saying to move him back to de and, if possible, trade him. Not because he sux, but because of his cap hit, playing way out of position and this is the last year of his contract. Try to get something rather than hope for a 3 rd comp pick. I think MW is a good de. I don't think he'll make a good olb in time to do us much good this season. This appears to be a one year experiment.

Hervoyel
08-24-2011, 10:50 AM
I think I've firmly established that I enjoy complaining and that rarely if ever can the Texans make me happy about anything they do or attempt to do.

I'm the guy waiting for the other shoe to fall.

I'm the guy who's not just worried about the sucker punch/kick to the groin every year, I'm almost counting on it.

Having said that even I think it's too soon to get pessimistic about Mario. It's too soon to get pessimistic about any of it. Three or four weeks from now they could be just completely epic or they could be a joke. When that time comes, IF that time comes then Mario isn't going to move somewhere else on this defense. He's an asset who will be part of a sign and trade deal to get whatever it is we will need to fix whatever it is that isn't working.

Trust me, I'll let you all know when it's time to get really, really, really upset about how things are going. :)

HOU-TEX
08-24-2011, 10:53 AM
Maybe we should use him as a TE. We sure could use the depth at the position

Rey
08-24-2011, 11:04 AM
Umm, how about moving him back to DE where he has played well for 5 years?

Actually, this DE is not even the same DE that he has played in the past...

Either way, he will be doing something a bit different than he has done in the past.

EllisUnit
08-24-2011, 11:07 AM
Honestly I think he could be serviceable but he is pullin down 14 million ..... u can buy a lot of talent for 14 million... I hate to see him go but if he doesn't show anything in game 3 on Saturday we should look at trading him to a 4-3 for a better # 2 cb and some drat pics( not my idea but I agree with texan mike on this one).. We got plenty of what looks to be good talent behind him brooks reed, nading etc ..... like I said though I hope he proves me wrong sat against the niners and blows it up for 2 sacs and and assload of stops .... just don't think he will do it... also mario will line up everywhere so moving him to ilb won't really make a difference plus then you got to worry about him covering a back or slot receiver .... He needs to show up big on saturday and make it worth the 14 mil.

if he dont show anything in game 3 of the pre season ?? Trade him ??? :vincepalm:

Blake
08-24-2011, 11:16 AM
Forum fail. I just simply dont understand this overreaction after 3 quarters of pre-season football. You're killin me smalls!

Errant Hothy
08-24-2011, 11:23 AM
There are certain things that a 34 OLB must have to be successful, a wicked fast first step, agility to get around or over the OT and a nose to finish the play. Things that MW has not shown at all this preseason. There have certainly been plays when MW has been told his only assignment was to get the QB (something he has been doing since he got here in essence), and on those plays he should at least flash some of these abilities. He has not. There should be nothing confussing MW about getting the QB.

If he was struggling in coverage or defending the edge I would agree that those problems could be fixed with more time. But he is struggling in the facet of his game that he should be most familiar with.

thunderkyss
08-24-2011, 11:33 AM
The reason Mario moved to OLB is because he wanted to rush the QB. He wouldn't get that chance as much as a 3-4 DE. I doubt he'd be willing to move to ILB.

That's all JJ Watt is going to be doing at DE. Same as Antonio Smith. That's what they do in Wade's 3-4.

House of Pain
08-24-2011, 12:12 PM
Forum fail. I just simply dont understand this overreaction after 3 quarters of pre-season football. You're killin me smalls!

This thread was made in the name of devil's advocacy. I don't really know how MW is going to do, but I would imagine until at least week 4 or so of the regular season. If you don't believe me, read this post I made about the same thing.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1757047&postcount=9

I was just asking a hypothetical question to generate discussion.

BrwnsTown
08-24-2011, 12:22 PM
if he dont show anything in game 3 of the pre season ?? Trade him ??? :vincepalm:



I would assume the Texans would hold on to Mario and franchise him in the off season, and then try and work a trade during the draft....

But If I'm wrong, remind your team the Browns have 2 first rd picks this year...
Williams would look real nice with Sheard and Taylor, Rubin...

That would be a beastly front 4..........

Texan_Bill
08-24-2011, 02:44 PM
Do you think he's lack of an explosive first step is due to being uncomfortable? I just dont think he's shown any flash in the pass rushing situations, am willing to cut him some slack when dropping into coverage. But he hasn't looked all that impressive in pure pass rushing situations. Yes, he got close to Brees; but close don't men shit. I've seen him get close to Manning for several years now, and we've still only bet them a small handfull of times.

If we going to move MW, moving him to DE would seem to be the most logically place to move him. Now would he want to move there, I doubt it. 43 DE and 34 OLB are positions that get paid and going into a contract year MW is thinking about getting paid. Wasn't Wade talking about making MW a 5 tech when he first go here?

When something is brand new to you and you are not comfortable or even have to second guess yourself, yes. He's never really played without his hand on the ground, for one. He has completely new responsibilites.

That said, if he doesn't show real improvement and settle in by about week 2 or 3, I think Wade will give him the hook and move him to DE.

IDEXAN
08-24-2011, 02:53 PM
IMO the offensive analogy to Mario's transition is moving a very good, a very effective pro bowl level TE to WR.

Errant Hothy
08-24-2011, 02:55 PM
When something is brand new to you and you are not comfortable or even have to second guess yourself, yes. He's never really played without his hand on the ground, for one. He has completely new responsibilites.

That said, if he doesn't show real improvement and settle in by about week 2 or 3, I think Wade will give him the hook and move him to DE.

What's there to second guess? With how simple Wade has been calling the D during the preseason, MW's main responsibilty is to rush the passer more than 3/4 of the time. For now I'm ignoring any play where he has to defend the flat or drop into coverage; and even with that removed from the equation he has looked average as an OLB. Could it be due to him being uncomfortable? Maybe, but for now I'm seriously doubting his ability to play OLB at a high level.

Texan_Bill
08-24-2011, 03:21 PM
What's there to second guess? With how simple Wade has been calling the D during the preseason, MW's main responsibilty is to rush the passer more than 3/4 of the time. For now I'm ignoring any play where he has to defend the flat or drop into coverage; and even with that removed from the equation he has looked average as an OLB. Could it be due to him being uncomfortable? Maybe, but for now I'm seriously doubting his ability to play OLB at a high level.

Okay.

Scooter
08-24-2011, 06:52 PM
Exactly. Does everyone honestly think Mario has tapped out already at OLB from a few plays in the preseason?

mario also played as a standup outside rusher several times last season. it was novel at first, and even got him a sack, but he looked too big and was too easy to defend once teams saw it coming.

80tothezone
08-24-2011, 10:44 PM
if he dont show anything in game 3 of the pre season ?? Trade him ??? :vincepalm:

Yes if we can get something for him why not? Shop it see where it goes, ur telling me that Reed will not be serviceable in that position? I think he would be more than serviceable, then we trade mario to a team either switching to a 4-3 or to a team that is in a 4-3 that needs a better end, and we get something we need like a good #2 cb or a ILB to backup the fresh off injury guys we got playing there... again why not if you can make your team better doing it. The Veteran thing doesn't really apply here cause he is swtiching positions so he will not be the teacher teaching the youngster's where to be... So again why not? 8.5 sacks? average tackle numbers? Another question how long do you give him? Week 1? trade deadline?

We got a STACKED O this yr and a better D this could be our year Finally after a decade of floundering in mediocrity to finally make the playoffs and do something as a team. Why coddle a guy who is not giving any indication that he really can play the new position he is in? Let him go do what he does best and get something in return for him to make the Texans better....
Now if this was Dre or Ryans or OD or someone like that I would say u do whatever you need to do to keep em... Mario has not been great for two years he has barely been good once again #27 in sacks down there in tackles too I believe... Why not see what we can get for him

Scooter
08-25-2011, 02:53 AM
to the OP, if he's so terrible at OLB - why not simply move him to DE where he belongs?

that was wade's original assessment of mario which drew the bruce smith comparisons - and even got bruce smith himself speaking of mario in the role. mario and watt are similarly built - both monsters - one with a freak motor and one with freak athleticism (smith somewhere inbetween). why isnt anyone talking about moving watt to OLB? i'll tell you why ... nobody wants a 290lb defensive end at the 7-9 gap trying to get to the quarterback. they're more likely to be successful as tackles (suh, seymore) than at OLB.

to be completely honest, if we're going to play a single gap system, i would start mario, watt, and smith on the line (in any placement). cody and mitchell would be better as rotation along the line.

SteveSlaton20
08-25-2011, 03:10 AM
Am I crazy?

yes. because our defense is basically a 5-2, and the OLB usually blitz a lot, and the ILB are supposed to be getting all the tackles and have to be able to cover and play man to man.

SAMURAITEXAN
08-25-2011, 09:23 AM
PAGE 4 PREVIEW

http://websites.idealmarketsolutions.com/websites/21/page4.jpg

Haha!! What about page 5 Doc?

ObsiWan
08-26-2011, 02:12 AM
Haha!! What about page 5 Doc?
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSgWKTqnJhG35L3JEXEZ1bWNfmwLIP7h vaHcrRxIgBvMbd1hr6Vxghttp://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSEWavqEzp0UAslaTyu41Y1WqYi1h9x5 jRVQHa2BF0m9mdfvHdN

wait, wait....
this may be page 6
let me double check
:D

Ryan
08-26-2011, 02:47 AM
Let's bring this conversation back up come week 5 or 6 of the regular season, not after less than 3 quarters of preseason football.

otisbean
08-26-2011, 06:05 AM
Let's bring this conversation back up come week 5 or 6 of the regular season, not after less than 3 quarters of preseason football.

This! ^^^^^^^

Grams
08-26-2011, 06:08 AM
let's bring this conversation back up come week 5 or 6 of the regular season, not after less than 3 quarters of preseason football.

amen!!

fiasco west
08-26-2011, 07:25 AM
I don't know what Mario has done to get this overrreaction of 'Lets trade him' or that he's really not that much needed. He's always been quiet, seems to like it here...so i'm confused.

I say we give DC Wade the benefit of the doubt and our guy Mario the same thing and see what happens.

If this OLB experiment doesn't work out, lets see what the team does with him...if it does, you guys better love him. :bat:

mussop
08-26-2011, 08:40 AM
Let's bring this conversation back up come week 5 or 6 of the regular season, not after less than 3 quarters of preseason football.

Mario is arguably playing he most important position on the entire defense and you think we should wait until a third of he season is over before we should discuss wheather or not Mario would be a better fit at another spot?

Not particularly talking to you Ryan but these are threads about Mario are not about dogging Mario and wanting to get rid of him. They are about moving our best D-linemen into a position that is so important to our season when

A) he doesn't have adequate time to make such a drastic adjustment.
B) his skillet just isn't cut out for the position.
C) he has a history of not picking new things up fast.
D) we drafted one of the best prospects in the draft at 3/4 OLB
E) the guy we drafted is picking up the position like it's second nature.
F) the guy that is playing well is getting loosing
out on valuable reps with the first team.
G) Mario's size is being wasted outside while we are getting gashed up the middle because of a lack of size.
H) if it doesn't workout Mario has had ZERO practice at 3/4 de.
I) we can't afford to gat off to a slow start.
J) I could go on and on.

I've seen people who are bashing people for voicing concerns about the Mario situation and I don't get it. These are legitimate concerns about our team that fans ( fanatics) are trying to discuss on a freaking TEXANS MESSAGE BOARD! yet there are peoe that don't care to join the conversation with anything other than one liner responses acting like this is a stupid topic. Were Effin stupid or dumb and dumber or jumping the gun. Well that is effn stupid to me. Rant done!

Again Ryan that last part was not directed at you.

Texan_Bill
08-26-2011, 09:19 AM
Let's bring this conversation back up come week 5 or 6 of the regular season, not after less than 3 quarters of preseason football.

Wait, what?? So you don't think 27 plays are enough to determine that Mario sucks??! :kubepalm:

Dripping in :sarcasm:

Mr teX
08-26-2011, 09:28 AM
Mario is arguably playing he most important position on the entire defense and you think we should wait until a third of he season is over before we should discuss wheather or not Mario would be a better fit at another spot?

Not particularly talking to you Ryan but these are threads about Mario are not about dogging Mario and wanting to get rid of him. They are about moving our best D-linemen into a position that is so important to our season when

A) he doesn't have adequate time to make such a drastic adjustment.
B) his skillet just isn't cut out for the position.
C) he has a history of not picking new things up fast.
D) we drafted one of the best prospects in the draft at 3/4 OLB
E) the guy we drafted is picking up the position like it's second nature.
F) the guy that is playing well is getting loosing
out on valuable reps with the first team.
G) Mario's size is being wasted outside while we are getting gashed up the middle because of a lack of size.
H) if it doesn't workout Mario has had ZERO practice at 3/4 de.
I) we can't afford to gat off to a slow start.
J) I could go on and on.

I've seen people who are bashing people for voicing concerns about the Mario situation and I don't get it. These are legitimate concerns about our team that fans ( fanatics) are trying to discuss on a freaking TEXANS MESSAGE BOARD! yet there are peoe that don't care to join the conversation with anything other than one liner responses acting like this is a stupid topic. Were Effin stupid or dumb and dumber or jumping the gun. Well that is effn stupid to me. Rant done!

Again Ryan that last part was not directed at you.

This post is full of fail.

A) he doesn't have adequate time to make such a drastic adjustment.
What "drastic" adjustment? His primary job is still the same; rush the passer. There is the adjustment to a new defense, but every player on the team is dealing with that, not just mario.

B) his skill set just isn't cut out for the position. - Really, well our DC seems to think so..furthermore, his skill set isn't changing much from when he played DE in a 4-3 b/c he's going to be doing the same frickin' thing..

C) he has a history of not picking new things up fast. What history is that? when Dick Smith tried moving him all over the LOS scrimmage in his rookie year? Most rookies would've struggled with that .....give me a break.

D) we drafted one of the best prospects in the draft at 3/4 OLB If you think Mario's going to have a tough time adjusting to the new scheme/position, how do you think a rookie that had a shortened offseason & who's adjusting to life in the NFL will fare?

E) the guy we drafted is picking up the position like it's second nature. HE'S PLAYING AGAINST 2ND & 3RD TEAMERS....AKA PRACTICE SQUADERS & GUYS THAT'LL BE GETTING VISITS FROM THE TURK IN A FEW WEEKS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!

F) the guy that is playing well is getting loosing
out on valuable reps with the first team. Well i guess if you feel that he's "picking up the position like it's 2nd nature", reps with the 1st team aren't that big a deal. Besides, if i'm not mistaken, kubiak has already come out & said that Reed will get more time with the 1's this game.

G) Mario's size is being wasted outside while we are getting gashed up the middle because of a lack of size.
key phrase being "up the middle" i.e. right over the NT position so even If mario does go back to putting his hand in the dirt full time, he's not going to be playing the nose. The likely candidate will be Antonio Smith & i'm not sure if that's going to be that much more of an improvement.


H) if it doesn't workout Mario has had ZERO practice at 3/4 de. :kubepalm:


I) we can't afford to gat off to a slow start. Lots of reasons for why that could happen, Mario playing OLB as 1 of those reasons is somewhere around 87907687. Besides, everything we've all seen so far from our defense & team indicates that we'll be better which makes a slow start less likely. & that's with Mario playing OLB.


J) I could go on and on.

The rest of that, you're just reaching with. I'm fine with Brooks Reed, i think he's got a great future with us....................I just think that it'll be Barwin that he replaces not Mario.......If Mario does indeed do well.

badboy
08-26-2011, 10:16 AM
Saturday 7 pm. Come on.

mussop
08-26-2011, 11:56 AM
Mr Tex. Bravo! :handclap:

Even though I disagree with most of what you've said, I respect the fact that you took the time to counter my response with well thought out counter points instead of replying with one sentence personal attacks or by starting a stupid new sarcastic thread mocking posters view points. That is the true definition of effn stupid!

80tothezone
08-26-2011, 12:41 PM
Let me ask you this ...... what do we need more a an olb when we got reed who can own .... or a good cb.... I think the latter ans asante is pretty much on the block..... either way we so wells this yr cause hopefully if Mario isn't hacking it he will be replaced by reed anyway.... I ,and others' think the D would be better served if we traded Mario to get something we NEED

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
08-26-2011, 12:59 PM
Mario for Dumervil would be a dream come true.

fiasco west
08-26-2011, 02:57 PM
Let me ask you this ...... what do we need more a an olb when we got reed who can own .... or a good cb.... I think the latter ans asante is pretty much on the block..... either way we so wells this yr cause hopefully if Mario isn't hacking it he will be replaced by reed anyway.... I ,and others' think the D would be better served if we traded Mario to get something we NEED

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

No. Reed has proved nothing. Why do you want to risk starting a rookie there? Didn't we learn from Kareem? So lets replace a proven player with a unproven player...

We don't know what we need any ways, I'd say we'd need a big NT more than a CB.

dgmtexas
08-26-2011, 03:17 PM
why not move him to ILB?

I know it sounds crazy, but if Wade (and Herring) claim they can control who is rushing at all times, then why not have Mario in the Middle and stop this "we can't stop the inside-the-tackle run" nonsense? Mario has established himself as a run stopper on the line, what would change that on the second level? He could still be a devastating pass rush threat and would never have to drop into coverage and use that supposed 'bull rush' of his? We may even move Cushing to the OLB position where he may do a little bit better since he's not pregnant anymore.

:kitten:

Am I crazy?

Wade Phillips is not going to show his bag of trick in the Preseason, Mario will end of having a hell of a year

disaacks3
08-26-2011, 03:22 PM
why not move him to ILB? Am I crazy? Yes.

I feel Mario overall would be terrible as an inside pass rusher. He demonstrates virtually only one move............a bull rush the long way around the edge. He does not man handle anyone with his hands. When you go up the middle, you better have good hand skills and a variation of moves such as spin moves which Mario does not demonstrate. Bingo. Why go from questionable to hopeless?

Who said he was terrible at OLB? He's played the position for roughly 3-4 weeks and looks somewhat uncomfortable right now... So what? I'm willing to give him 4 games, then it's time for 3-4 DE or look for trading partners.

If there are really any questions about Mario Williams at OLB, the only real move, would be to put him back at DE. Yep, the position where he's best suited..(in a 4-3 anyway).

mussop
08-26-2011, 03:59 PM
This post is full of fail.

A) he doesn't have adequate time to make such a drastic adjustment.
What "drastic" adjustment? His primary job is still the same; rush the passer. There is the adjustment to a new defense, but every player on the team is dealing with that, not just mario.

" Kubiak. " What they're trying to get him to do, it's a total change in technique in how you play and the scheme is playing and what he's being asked to do.

"I think the biggest thing is bending," Williams said. "I'm so tall, so I think that with my angles and keeping my knees bent and waist bent, proper angles, I think it will be a lot easier, but I'm not used to doing that as much."

B) his skill set just isn't cut out for the position. - Really, well our DC seems to think so..furthermore, his skill set isn't changing much from when he played DE in a 4-3 b/c he's going to be doing the same frickin' thing..

A 3/4 OLB and 4/3 DE ARE completely different positions. Just because you can play one doesn't mean you can play the other. DE's that successfully convert to 3/4 OLB are the quick twitch athletes. (There are many many examples of this.) Not the bigger all around ones. (There are NO examples of this.)

C) he has a history of not picking new things up fast. What history is that? when Dick Smith tried moving him all over the LOS scrimmage in his rookie year? Most rookies would've struggled with that .....give me a break.

Have you ever seen Mario do a spin move?


D) we drafted one of the best prospects in the draft at 3/4 OLB If you think Mario's going to have a tough time adjusting to the new scheme/position, how do you think a rookie that had a shortened offseason & who's adjusting to life in the NFL will fare?

So far, much better than Mario.

E) the guy we drafted is picking up the position like it's second nature. HE'S PLAYING AGAINST 2ND & 3RD TEAMERS....AKA PRACTICE SQUADERS & GUYS THAT'LL BE GETTING VISITS FROM THE TURK IN A FEW WEEKS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!

And he is looking better and better each minute he's out there. He has taken his opportunity and run with it, Mario hasn't. We wont know what he is capable of doing against first teamers until he gets a chance and he has shown that he deserves one.

Weak OLB in Phillips system is pretty much rush the QB the majority of the time. If you have the skill set/ instinct to do it it doesn't matter to much how much experience you have. Its just get after it.

F) the guy that is playing well is getting loosing
out on valuable reps with the first team. Well i guess if you feel that he's "picking up the position like it's 2nd nature", reps with the 1st team aren't that big a deal. Besides, if i'm not mistaken, kubiak has already come out & said that Reed will get more time with the 1's this game.

Could that be a sign?

G) Mario's size is being wasted outside while we are getting gashed up the middle because of a lack of size.
key phrase being "up the middle" i.e. right over the NT position so even If mario does go back to putting his hand in the dirt full time, he's not going to be playing the nose. The likely candidate will be Antonio Smith & i'm not sure if that's going to be that much more of an improvement.

No he wouldn't be playing nose but DE is a lot closer the the middle than OLB. I would imagine that if this doesn't workout that Watt will be moved inside before Smith would. That way you have your 3 best D-Linemen on the field at once.


H) if it doesn't workout Mario has had ZERO practice at 3/4 de. :kubepalm:

So you think he could just move to 3/4 DE and pick it up right away just because he played DE in a completely different system? :kubepalm: to you sir.


I) we can't afford to gat off to a slow start. Lots of reasons for why that could happen, Mario playing OLB as 1 of those reasons is somewhere around 87907687. Besides, everything we've all seen so far from our defense & team indicates that we'll be better which makes a slow start less likely. & that's with Mario playing OLB.


FAIL BIGTIME!!!! Again weak OLB is the most important position in this system. The whole defense is designed around it to allow him to make plays. The more you get out of the position the better the defense is going to be.

Question, do you think the first team defense has looked good at pressuring the QB so far? Imagine how good they would have looked if Mario was producing say like Reed against the second teamers.


J) I could go on and on.

The rest of that, you're just reaching with. I'm fine with Brooks Reed, i think he's got a great future with us....................I just think that it'll be Barwin that he replaces not Mario.......If Mario does indeed do well.

I agree with this. If Mario does do well why would you replace him? He better hurry up and show something soon though. Time is running out.

Rey
08-26-2011, 04:12 PM
Mario has lost weight. Not sure his "size" is a positive when projecting him to nt.

Earl Mitchell is better suited for that position than Mario.

mussop
08-26-2011, 04:26 PM
Mario has lost weight. Not sure his "size" is a positive when projecting him to nt.

Earl Mitchell is better suited for that position than Mario.

Show me where one person suggested Mario should play NT. :mariopalm:

Perki-Perk
08-26-2011, 04:40 PM
Show me where one person suggested Mario should play NT. :mariopalm:

Um, don't want to look for it, but seeing as how he's been suggested for FS and PR...that doesn't seem to far fetched.

On a serious note, how about moving Mario over to Center...OH Snap!

Rey
08-26-2011, 05:23 PM
Show me where one person suggested Mario should play NT. :mariopalm:

I suggested playing him at nose some before the move to olb was made.

Also there have been a few mentions of playing him at nose.

But I guess since you have read every single post you know that.

Revolution
08-26-2011, 05:54 PM
I'm telling you people that Mario is playing possum. These are the NEW Texans. They are going to take the league by storm... :bat:

I hope.... :)

thunderkyss
08-26-2011, 06:29 PM
D) we drafted one of the best prospects in the draft at 3/4 OLB

If you think Mario's going to have a tough time adjusting to the new scheme/position, how do you think a rookie that had a shortened offseason & who's adjusting to life in the NFL will fare?

E) the guy we drafted is picking up the position like it's second nature.

HE'S PLAYING AGAINST 2ND & 3RD TEAMERS....AKA PRACTICE SQUADERS & GUYS THAT'LL BE GETTING VISITS FROM THE TURK IN A FEW WEEKS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!

F) the guy that is playing well is getting loosing out on valuable reps with the first team.
Well i guess if you feel that he's "picking up the position like it's 2nd nature", reps with the 1st team aren't that big a deal. Besides, if i'm not mistaken, kubiak has already come out & said that Reed will get more time with the 1's this game.


I agree with mussop on this one... & I agree with you as well. Not with your arguments, but that Mario shouldn't be threatened by Brooks Reed.

If Brooks is doing so well..... & I think he is, that's where I agree with mussop... Barwin needs to slide down the depth chart. I'm still not convinced that Brooks can get it done against the 1s.. I feel better about Mario than I do about Barwin.

thunderkyss
08-26-2011, 06:40 PM
Let me ask you this ...... what do we need more a an olb when we got reed who can own .... or a good cb.... I think the latter ans asante is pretty much on the block..... either way we so wells this yr cause hopefully if Mario isn't hacking it he will be replaced by reed anyway.... I ,and others' think the D would be better served if we traded Mario to get something we NEED

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

We need Mario.

A bird in the hand kind of thing.

If Mario can't get it done at OLB, it would serve us better to drop him down on the line opposite Watt.

I think we've got a better philosophy on the back end. Coverage. Let the front seven handle the run defense, let the back 4 work out the coverage. I think we are going to see a lot of QBs pulling the ball down & taking a second & third read, which we haven't seen before.

Because of this I think Mario is going to produce for us more than he has in the past whether you call him an OLB or a DE. Mario is a beast against the run. You look at a guy like Nnamdi & say, "he takes away half the field" That's what Mario does on your DL. They run away from him. So now we can overload that strong side.

We can (even though we haven't seen it yet) stop the run with the front seven, which will allow the back 4 to cover, which will allow us to get to the QB.

We need Mario more than we need Asante or whoever.


80tothezone
08-26-2011, 06:56 PM
No. Reed has proved nothing. Why do you want to risk starting a rookie there? Didn't we learn from Kareem? So lets replace a proven player with a unproven player...

We don't know what we need any ways, I'd say we'd need a big NT more than a CB.

What Mario has proved to me is that he has all the right tools to be a good De I could run over his mediocre production in the last two yrs again for ya bu I am kinda tired of posting the stats so u can look em up for yourself .... don't know about as an olb ..... what kj has proven is that he is a less than good cb .... my concern is tom improve the defense I do not see that we have a serviceable #2 cb and since we got owned in the pass last yr that to me is a much bigger concern .... why not put fresh blood up front .... a guy who is built like a 3/4 lb and so far has shown he can play the position thus far vs a guy built like a 4/3 de who has not especially when moving the guy who has not shown any indication that he will be better than mediocre could be moved to pick up a cb that will shore up the back end?

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Rey
08-26-2011, 06:58 PM
I agree with mussop on this one... & I agree with you as well. Not with your arguments, but that Mario shouldn't be threatened by Brooks Reed.

If Brooks is doing so well..... & I think he is, that's where I agree with mussop... Barwin needs to slide down the depth chart. I'm still not convinced that Brooks can get it done against the 1s.. I feel better about Mario than I do about Barwin.

I want to see Brooks against ones too. The only thing though is that the position barwin is playing requires more coverage than the one Mario is playing.

Honestly though, I'd like to see a healthy rotation at olb. I'd like to see reed and barwin playing something like 44/44 with the other 12 percent going to nading and possibly braman.

Assuming Mario stays at olb I'd like to see him take about 85-90 percent with the other 10-15 going to the other guys.

But with that said, I think Mario is going to have his hand in the dirt a lot. Especially against the colts.

fiasco west
08-26-2011, 09:34 PM
What Mario has proved to me is that he has all the right tools to be a good De I could run over his mediocre production in the last two yrs again for ya bu I am kinda tired of posting the stats so u can look em up for yourself .... don't know about as an olb ..... what kj has proven is that he is a less than good cb .... my concern is tom improve the defense I do not see that we have a serviceable #2 cb and since we got owned in the pass last yr that to me is a much bigger concern .... why not put fresh blood up front .... a guy who is built like a 3/4 lb and so far has shown he can play the position thus far vs a guy built like a 4/3 de who has not especially when moving the guy who has not shown any indication that he will be better than mediocre could be moved to pick up a cb that will shore up the back end?

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

Mario Mediocre production?

I'll give you 2010 because people like to blame the secondary solely when really the entire defense was bad, but 2009 he made the Pro-bowl, so how is he 'mediocre'?

Mediocre is average and Mario is FAR from that.

We don't know about Reed as OLB either, this is his first time playing the position. While it all looks good in pre-season, it is exactly that...preseason. I think one thing this team and it's fans should have learned is that if you are forcing yourself to start rookies you can expect trouble.

Watt is different, because he's not being forced to start there. If Wade wanted to he could easily have him play behind Mario and Smith but Wade and everyone else knows he's such a beast that he has to be on the field.

Also there is no way you will convince me that Mario has shown no indication that he can play OLB because of what you've seen in 2 preseason games.

And you are assuming that Wade is always going to play Mario at OLB which I'm guessing he's not. We've already seen him with his hand down on the line and this is just vanilla preseason defense.

mussop
08-26-2011, 10:38 PM
We don't know about Reed as OLB either, this is his first time playing the position. While it all looks good in pre-season, it is exactly that...preseason. I think one thing this team and it's fans should have learned is that if you are forcing yourself to start rookies you can expect trouble.

Watt is different, because he's not being forced to start there. If Wade wanted to he could easily have him play behind Mario and Smith but Wade and everyone else knows he's such a beast that he has to be on the field.


There is a big difference from starting a rookie at CB and at LB. Go look at the Defensive ROY awards from the last ten years. The rest makes no sense.

GP
08-26-2011, 11:00 PM
In wades defense average players have racked up big numbers at strong ILB.
Having mOre size in the middle coulnd only help.
Mario's size is being wasted on the outside.
This defense is predicated on speed of the edges. Mario isn't a speed guy.

There are many many reasons Mario would be better in the middle but most here wont discuss it. They will just say, well i'll go with Wades opinion over yours.

To quote a good friend of mine "That's effing stupid."

He's doing just fine. Quit acting like you know better. Mario is a premiere player and is a God outside of Houston. Blah, blah, blah....etc., etc.

In all seriousness, though, I think people were so quick to agree with ONE person on here, and the rep party rolled through the neighborhood like hell on wheels, that nobody ever slowed down for one second to just "discuss" that maybe Mario isn't built for OLB.

We switched Quin to Safety, in a heartbeat, before the draft was even underway. But Mario MUST be at OLB? Why? Why not put him in at ILB, or even on the interior of the d-line? Why CAN'T he put a hand down over the center and totally mess with the mind of the center, and BOTH guards on each side of the center? 75% of the time have him at ILB, 15% at OLB, and 10% anywhere along the d-line just to create confusion and make pre-snap problems for mis-matches. WHY? WHY NOT?

But hell no! Don't have any ideas, because those ideas are just effing stupid.

Line him up at OLB, watch him lumber around on the edge or be on the opposite side of where the play is headed (since that's where the play WILL flow: Wherever Mario ISN'T).

All I can hope is that this is just a phase of Wade seeing if he can handle OLB or if he does need to be inside a bit more. But as of two preseason games, I have a hard time being sold on how much he's improving at his new position. He and Barwin look average, at best. And that worries me.

I keep saying it, though. And saying it, and saying it, and saying it. Since it seems nobody on here listens unless you repeat it over and over for years on here: "It doesn't really even matter if Mario 'gels' in his new role or not. We've got better players, and a better d-coord, with a better plan, than we have ever had here. With or without Mario, we'll succeed if we stick to the plan Wade has drawn up for the whole defense."

The only scary thing is this: How much BETTER would we be if Mario was in a position were he instinctually looks better. Not how people "spin" how much better he is, but that he actually APPEARS to be better and growing in it.

It's not blasphemy, nor effing stupid, to be less than thrilled with what the guy has done so far. It's just being truthful.

fiasco west
08-26-2011, 11:19 PM
There is a big difference from starting a rookie at CB and at LB. Go look at the Defensive ROY awards from the last ten years. The rest makes no sense.

A rookie is a rookie. Yes there has been a lot of LBs at DROY, just like there has been a lot of QBs who have won OROY....does that mean you should always start a rookie QB?

How does the rest 'not make sense' ? Mario and Smith can't play DE?

beerlover
08-27-2011, 12:16 AM
To quote a good friend of mine "That's effing stupid."

He's doing just fine. Quit acting like you know better. Mario is a premiere player and is a God outside of Houston. Blah, blah, blah....etc., etc.

In all seriousness, though, I think people were so quick to agree with ONE person on here, and the rep party rolled through the neighborhood like hell on wheels, that nobody ever slowed down for one second to just "discuss" that maybe Mario isn't built for OLB.

We switched Quin to Safety, in a heartbeat, before the draft was even underway. But Mario MUST be at OLB? Why? Why not put him in at ILB, or even on the interior of the d-line? Why CAN'T he put a hand down over the center and totally mess with the mind of the center, and BOTH guards on each side of the center? 75% of the time have him at ILB, 15% at OLB, and 10% anywhere along the d-line just to create confusion and make pre-snap problems for mis-matches. WHY? WHY NOT?

But hell no! Don't have any ideas, because those ideas are just effing stupid.

Line him up at OLB, watch him lumber around on the edge or be on the opposite side of where the play is headed (since that's where the play WILL flow: Wherever Mario ISN'T).

All I can hope is that this is just a phase of Wade seeing if he can handle OLB or if he does need to be inside a bit more. But as of two preseason games, I have a hard time being sold on how much he's improving at his new position. He and Barwin look average, at best. And that worries me.

I keep saying it, though. And saying it, and saying it, and saying it. Since it seems nobody on here listens unless you repeat it over and over for years on here: "It doesn't really even matter if Mario 'gels' in his new role or not. We've got better players, and a better d-coord, with a better plan, than we have ever had here. With or without Mario, we'll succeed if we stick to the plan Wade has drawn up for the whole defense."

The only scary thing is this: How much BETTER would we be if Mario was in a position were he instinctually looks better. Not how people "spin" how much better he is, but that he actually APPEARS to be better and growing in it.

It's not blasphemy, nor effing stupid, to be less than thrilled with what the guy has done so far. It's just being truthful.

What happens when teams can no longer run opposite side away from Mario? Then I think we'll know what we got, a DL in OLB clothing.

80tothezone
08-27-2011, 12:20 AM
Mario Mediocre production?

I'll give you 2010 because people like to blame the secondary solely when really the entire defense was bad, but 2009 he made the Pro-bowl, so how is he 'mediocre'?

Mediocre is average and Mario is FAR from that.

We don't know about Reed as OLB either, this is his first time playing the position. While it all looks good in pre-season, it is exactly that...preseason. I think one thing this team and it's fans should have learned is that if you are forcing yourself to start rookies you can expect trouble.

Watt is different, because he's not being forced to start there. If Wade wanted to he could easily have him play behind Mario and Smith but Wade and everyone else knows he's such a beast that he has to be on the field.

Also there is no way you will convince me that Mario has shown no indication that he can play OLB because of what you've seen in 2 preseason games.

And you are assuming that Wade is always going to play Mario at OLB which I'm guessing he's not. We've already seen him with his hand down on the line and this is just vanilla preseason defense.

ok already posted his 2010 stats on some other "do somehting with mario" thread , 2009- 44 Mario Williams HOU DE 43 38 5 9.0 -- -- -- -- -- -- 2 1 0

from NFL .com 44 is 44th among defensive linemen in 2009 , if you go to
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=1&season=2009&seasonType=REG&experience=null&Submit=Go&archive=true&d-447263-p=2&conference=null&statisticPositionCategory=DEFENSIVE_LINEMAN&qualified=true
and organize by sacs you get that he ranked 9th in that category with 9 whichI will give you is better than mediocre ff he was 12th with 2 tied with a bunch of other guys.... 44th in tackles is mediocre, his sac numbers were better that year but still nothing amazing... He has been good for two years of his five here not even the point really of the post but I figured I would put it up there... THe point is that trading him for something we need makes us better NOW not 3-8 games into the season afterr we played all of our toughest opponents... Would he be able to make the adjustment eventually I think so but why not shop[ the DE trade market and see if philly wants to deal? Say it doesn't work out and he ends up getting owned on the end what do you do then? You got a 6-7 280 pound paperweight on ur team that cost u 14 mil... Again as I try to reiterate I was in mario's camp last yr go look it up, but we might be able to make our team better without him than it is with him so why not do it?

BTWwhen you add in olb's the numbers look even worse

mussop
08-27-2011, 12:55 AM
A rookie is a rookie. Yes there has been a lot of LBs at DROY, just like there has been a lot of QBs who have won OROY....does that mean you should always start a rookie QB?

Ok now you are comparing the QB position and all its responsibilities to the OLB position? Thats what its really all about, responsibilities. Thats why there are so many LB's win DROY. Its a position that requires a certain skill set to be successful. Other than that there isn't alot to it. This is why some are doubting Mario's ability to play the position after only 3 quarters of preseason play.

Yeh its different from what Mario is used to but you don't see that slowing Reed down. He doesn't seem to having the problems Mario is having. How long should this experiment go on? Do we go into the reg season with Mario at OLB even if he shows no improvement? When do you draw the line?


How does the rest 'not make sense' ? Mario and Smith can't play DE?

Watt is different, because he's not being forced to start there. If Wade wanted to he could easily have him play behind Mario and Smith but Wade and everyone else knows he's such a beast that he has to be on the field.

This is contradicting and just doesn't make sense. What do you mean "not being forced to start"? Would Reed be forced to start if Mario was moved back to DE? And how do you know Reed isn't a beast that has to be on the field? He has done nothing but get better every minute he's been out there. Think if he had gotten the all the reps Mario has gotten. Who knows what we would be saying about him right now.

Look its simple, if you are going to start a rookie, OLB is one of the safest positions to do so. And its a big gamble taking the best DLman we have and playing him out in space when he doesn't even have the typical skill set that every player that has been successful at that position has had. Thats why some are questioning whether this is the best move for the team, not Mario, the team.

fiasco west
08-27-2011, 01:15 AM
ok already posted his 2010 stats on some other "do somehting with mario" thread , 2009- 44 Mario Williams HOU DE 43 38 5 9.0 -- -- -- -- -- -- 2 1 0

from NFL .com 44 is 44th among defensive linemen in 2009 , if you go to
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=1&season=2009&seasonType=REG&experience=null&Submit=Go&archive=true&d-447263-p=2&conference=null&statisticPositionCategory=DEFENSIVE_LINEMAN&qualified=true
and organize by sacs you get that he ranked 9th in that category with 9 whichI will give you is better than mediocre ff he was 12th with 2 tied with a bunch of other guys.... 44th in tackles is mediocre, his sac numbers were better that year but still nothing amazing... He has been good for two years of his five here not even the point really of the post but I figured I would put it up there... THe point is that trading him for something we need makes us better NOW not 3-8 games into the season afterr we played all of our toughest opponents... Would he be able to make the adjustment eventually I think so but why not shop[ the DE trade market and see if philly wants to deal? Say it doesn't work out and he ends up getting owned on the end what do you do then? You got a 6-7 280 pound paperweight on ur team that cost u 14 mil... Again as I try to reiterate I was in mario's camp last yr go look it up, but we might be able to make our team better without him than it is with him so why not do it?

BTWwhen you add in olb's the numbers look even worse

Yeah, 4-3 DEs don't usually rack up tackles. So of course when you add in OLBs he's going to have less. Using this logic Dwight Freeney had a average year that year with his 24 tackles. What he did in 09 was not average, I'd say the mediocre DE gets about 4 or 5 sacks...not near double digits.

Say it does work out and we just traded away a beast for a good but not great corner? You talk as if he's going to only be playing OLB and always standing which doesn't look to be the case. We've already seen his hand on the ground in preseason, Wade is a smart DC. He's not going to just have Mario drop back into coverage for entire games.

fiasco west
08-27-2011, 01:27 AM
Ok now you are comparing the QB position and all its responsibilities to the OLB position? Thats what its really all about, responsibilities. Thats why there are so many LB's win DROY. Its a position that requires a certain skill set to be successful. Other than that there isn't alot to it. This is why some are doubting Mario's ability to play the position after only 3 quarters of preseason play.

Yeh its different from what Mario is used to but you don't see that slowing Reed down. He doesn't seem to having the problems Mario is having. How long should this experiment go on? Do we go into the reg season with Mario at OLB even if he shows no improvement? When do you draw the line?






This is contradicting and just doesn't make sense. What do you mean "not being forced to start"? Would Reed be forced to start if Mario was moved back to DE? And how do you know Reed isn't a beast that has to be on the field? He has done nothing but get better every minute he's been out there. Think if he had gotten the all the reps Mario has gotten. Who knows what we would be saying about him right now.

Look its simple, if you are going to start a rookie, OLB is one of the safest positions to do so. And its a big gamble taking the best DLman we have and playing him out in space when he doesn't even have the typical skill set that every player that has been successful at that position has had. Thats why some are questioning whether this is the best move for the team, not Mario, the team.

I'm not comparing the QB position to the OLB position. Just saying that just because other guys have won the DROY at LB doesn't mean it's a sure fire thing to start a rookie there, especially when you don't need to like the person I quoted suggested that Brooks would be better in that spot than Mario....which none of us know any way.

Well Reed is playing against 2nd and 3rd stringers.

Being forced to start, I mean starting a rookie because we don't have anyone else better to start. Like playing Kareem or Okoye.

Also I wouldn't move Reed to OLB. I would move Cushing there(seems a good fit for OLB...) and then maybe start Sharpton or Adibi inside. But that's just me, obviously Wade Phillips has different plans and i'd rather doubt the posters here who have seen two preseason games than Wade. That's just me.

80tothezone
08-27-2011, 01:37 AM
Yeah, 4-3 DEs don't usually rack up tackles. So of course when you add in OLBs he's going to have less. Using this logic Dwight Freeney had a average year that year with his 24 tackles. What he did in 09 was not average, I'd say the mediocre DE gets about 4 or 5 sacks...not near double digits.

Say it does work out and we just traded away a beast for a good but not great corner? You talk as if he's going to only be playing OLB and always standing which doesn't look to be the case. We've already seen his hand on the ground in preseason, Wade is a smart DC. He's not going to just have Mario drop back into coverage for entire games.

Well I wouldn't do a straight up trade for a cb I would think you could get more than that for him just because people outside of houston don't seem to see his lack of production. Also if u clicked the link you would see that it is sorted by D linemen and there are tons of DE in front of mario.... Also my point is if one was to do a risk benefit analysis HUGE risk to count on MW as a OLB , granted, with a big upside IF it works out add into that, we got a guy behind him who IS picking up the position and seems like he would be a more versatile player in that position and you are taking unnecessary risk by keeping him on the roster.

On the other side if you do market him and fill in some of the holes in the D and replace him with a player that is showing promise you still have a HUGE upside and not as much risk... Nothing personal against the guy just think it would be better move to put him on block and get something for him while we still can...Also as I said in my original response either in this thread or another I think we give hi through this game to show that he will be viable in that position...

fiasco west
08-27-2011, 01:58 AM
Well I wouldn't do a straight up trade for a cb I would think you could get more than that for him just because people outside of houston don't seem to see his lack of production. Also if u clicked the link you would see that it is sorted by D linemen and there are tons of DE in front of mario.... Also my point is if one was to do a risk benefit analysis HUGE risk to count on MW as a OLB , granted, with a big upside IF it works out add into that, we got a guy behind him who IS picking up the position and seems like he would be a more versatile player in that position and you are taking unnecessary risk by keeping him on the roster.

On the other side if you do market him and fill in some of the holes in the D and replace him with a player that is showing promise you still have a HUGE upside and not as much risk... Nothing personal against the guy just think it would be better move to put him on block and get something for him while we still can...Also as I said in my original response either in this thread or another I think we give hi through this game to show that he will be viable in that position...

So give him only 3 preseason games, that's his evaluation? That's how you treat a 2x All-pro blue chip player? I'd give him the entire year, the guy is losing NO value playing at OLB. 4-3 teams will still want him and you can franchise and trade him just that easily.

I'm not against trading Mario, what I am against is trading him when he's literally in his prime because of being impatient on this OLB experiment. A experiment that has not yet failed or succeeded.

Also I can't stress enough that Mario is not solely going to be dropping back in coverage standing up if preseason is any indication of what Wade plans to do. This can't be stressed enough, no one shows their full hand in preseason.

80tothezone
08-27-2011, 02:26 AM
I want to see significant improvement on sat. Show a flash that ur getting it .... and even so even if he is good ... I think for THIS team he has a better value if you trade him in for a few 3/4 players and a good #2 cb. The guy wasn't drafted to be a 3/4 lb reed was .... either way I think we do fine just would rather see the team get to the best possible position for week 1... in my mind,and I am not alone l, that comes with trading him to a team we see once every 4 years and getting a cb and some depth in return... also if you have him rushing the passer on every down or on most downs the we running a 4/3 not a 3/4 .... the nice thing about a 3/4 is you never know where the pressure is coming from. If the other team can count on him rushing then why run the 3/4 at all... reed has the build of a olb, he is more agile and potentially better in coverage making him more versatile. And a better fit for the 3/4 because you wouldn't know if him barwin ryans. Or cushing is going to be the 4 th rusher.

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leebigeztx
08-27-2011, 02:34 AM
I want to see significant improvement on sat. Show a flash that ur getting it .... and even so even if he is good ... I think for THIS team he has a better value if you trade him in for a few 3/4 players and a good #2 cb. The guy wasn't drafted to be a 3/4 lb reed was .... either way I think we do fine just would rather see the team get to the best possible position for week 1... in my mind,and I am not alone l, that comes with trading him to a team we see once every 4 years and getting a cb and some depth in return... also if you have him rushing the passer on every down or on most downs the we running a 4/3 not a 3/4 .... the nice thing about a 3/4 is you never know where the pressure is coming from. If the other team can count on him rushing then why run the 3/4 at all... reed has the build of a olb, he is more agile and potentially better in coverage making him more versatile. And a better fit for the 3/4 because you wouldn't know if him barwin ryans. Or cushing is going to be the 4 th rusher.

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Same dumb arguments. Mario is a better player than any lineman on the roster. Push comes to shove, he moves back to de and put smith on the bench. Its not that hard.

beerlover
08-27-2011, 03:40 AM
Same dumb arguments. Mario is a better player than any lineman on the roster. Push comes to shove, he moves back to de and put smith on the bench. Its not that hard.

more likely Antonio Smith sustains a high ankle strain or hamstring that sidelines him 3-4 games so we can all find out just how good Mario can be as a 3-4 5 tech DE :handshake:

otisbean
08-27-2011, 06:00 AM
A couple thoughts:

Without question the NFL game evolves yearly, maybe this hybrid 3-4/4-3 becomes the next big thing. I think Wade is crafty enough to put MW in positions to excel, let's face it, it's in both of their best interests. I don't see Wade continuously trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole. His reputation is on the line this year. I guarantee he wants to show the NFL he's a top defensive mind.

Second, many of you state Mario isn't a quick twitch athlete, this makes me wonder if some of you know what this truly means. At his combine Mario had a 10' broad jump, a 40+"VJ, and ran a 1.6 10yd split. He accomplished all this at a BW of 295lbs. This my friends is the definition of quick twitch. These numbers are obscenely good. I think the perceived lack of explosiveness comes from a tad bit of overthinking. I expect this to improve dramatically as he gains experience.

Again, what's the downside of trying your best defensive player at a position of importance in the front 7? If he doesn't cut it then we have an uber athletic DE. If he struggles he'll still command a kings ransom in a trade next off season, but I doubt it ever comes to that.

Peace

80tothezone
08-27-2011, 02:38 PM
Same dumb arguments. Mario is a better player than any lineman on the roster. Push comes to shove, he moves back to de and put smith on the bench. Its not that hard.

Same dumb arguments. Mario is a better player than any lineman on the roster. Push comes to shove, he moves back to de and put smith on the bench. Its not that hard.

So your intelligent well thought out response to my argument is that it is dumb? Wow....now THAT is a solid argument champ.l! see your well thought out reasoning you sir have officially changed my mind, and proven through infallible logic that your position makes soo much sense! Mario is a great 3/4 lb because u said my argument is dumb. Wow champ .... just wow...

badboy
08-27-2011, 02:40 PM
I want to see Mario bull rushing thru TEs and tossing RBs like minor irritants out of his way. I want to see "Oh, S---!" on a QBs face. I want to see the monster we drafted and I do not really care if at OLb or DE. If he is not...

I need to see a whole lotta improvement tonight from him, Leinert, Jackson, JJ and Manning. I need to see some better defense against up the middle runs. Ths is the game to do it even if against 49ers. If you can not do it now when will it be done?

80tothezone
08-27-2011, 03:43 PM
I want to see Mario bull rushing thru TEs and tossing RBs like minor irritants out of his way. I want to see "Oh, S---!" on a QBs face. I want to see the monster we drafted and I do not really care if at OLb or DE. If he is not...

I need to see a whole lotta improvement tonight from him, Leinert, Jackson, JJ and Manning. I need to see some better defense against up the middle runs. Ths is the game to do it even if against 49ers. If you can not do it now when will it be done?

U watching a game from 2008? Cause Mario ain't done that in yrz!

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Scooter
08-28-2011, 03:21 AM
i'll be the one to bump this, and repeat myself again ... mario is out of position. barwin went inside the left tackle, got doubled by the left guard, and pushed both into the quarterback for a sack - as mario is straight up against the right tackle 4 yards away. each time mario reads run, he misses the play entirely ... teams used to run away from mario, now they're better off running at him.

if you watched the pregame you saw mario talking about his difficulties getting off the ball quick enough because of the change to a 2pt stance. for those paying attention, he was absurdly slow in the drills compared to the other linebackers. no amount of lean or correction compensates for 6'6" and 285lbs. if football is a game of inches, why would you have yao ming running a 9 yard sprint instead of aaron brooks?

mario williams needs to play a bruce smith role as a 34 defensive end who moves outward in pass rush depending on situation and playcall. this is wade's initial assessment. this is the entire football world's initial assessment. this is bruce friggin smith's assessment. julius peppers insisted on wanting a job as an OLB in a 34 and couldnt find a suitor, why would we cater to such wishes from a more run oriented DE?

mario's a top three 43 defensive end. he's atleast a top ten 34 defensive end. he's a backup OLB on a team switching to a new system.

DocBar
08-28-2011, 07:37 AM
He just isn't making a good transition. He looks surprised on every snap and isn't firing off the ball. Put him back at DE where he belongs. Let's call this experiment off and move on.

prostock101
08-28-2011, 07:44 AM
i'll be the one to bump this, and repeat myself again ... mario is out of position. barwin went inside the left tackle, got doubled by the left guard, and pushed both into the quarterback for a sack - as mario is straight up against the right tackle 4 yards away. each time mario reads run, he misses the play entirely ... teams used to run away from mario, now they're better off running at him.

if you watched the pregame you saw mario talking about his difficulties getting off the ball quick enough because of the change to a 2pt stance. for those paying attention, he was absurdly slow in the drills compared to the other linebackers. no amount of lean or correction compensates for 6'6" and 285lbs. if football is a game of inches, why would you have yao ming running a 9 yard sprint instead of aaron brooks?

mario williams needs to play a bruce smith role as a 34 defensive end who moves outward in pass rush depending on situation and playcall. this is wade's initial assessment. this is the entire football world's initial assessment. this is bruce friggin smith's assessment. julius peppers insisted on wanting a job as an OLB in a 34 and couldnt find a suitor, why would we cater to such wishes from a more run oriented DE?

mario's a top three 43 defensive end. he's atleast a top ten 34 defensive end. he's a backup OLB on a team switching to a new system.

Nicely said although I thought MW looked more "active" if that's the word and didn't seem as tentative. I do remember watching him on a couple plays and the entire line moved on the snap and Mario was a just a hair behind. Not a good thing.

I also watched D Ware last week and honestly did not see him do anything that MW could not do given time to learn the position. We'll see.......

DocBar
08-28-2011, 07:53 AM
Nicely said although I thought MW looked more "active" if that's the word and didn't seem as tentative. I do remember watching him on a couple plays and the entire line moved on the snap and Mario was a just a hair behind. Not a good thing.

I also watched D Ware last week and honestly did not see him do anything that MW could not do given time to learn the position. We'll see.......How much time do we give him? In 2 weeks, the games start counting. You also have to take into account all the contract and $$ stuff that's been well documented.
All I want to see is the best players, at their respective positions, on the field opening day. I'm nowhere near sold on the idea that MW is our best option at WOLB. Speaking of WOLB, iirc, MW seemed to play more at SOLB.

Rey
08-28-2011, 08:24 AM
I don't know what you guys are looking at.

Mario looks fine to me.

otisbean
08-28-2011, 08:32 AM
How much time do we give him? In 2 weeks, the games start counting. You also have to take into account all the contract and $$ stuff that's been well documented.
All I want to see is the best players, at their respective positions, on the field opening day. I'm nowhere near sold on the idea that MW is our best option at WOLB. Speaking of WOLB, iirc, MW seemed to play more at SOLB.

Why do we have to take his contract into account? It isn't as if we signed him to a huge contract based on speculation as to his success at OLB. He's in the last year of his rookie deal, if it doesn't workout they can obviously switch him to DE or franchise him and trade him. He's a proven 4-3 DE, I don't think anything short of major injury would effect his trade value. I can't see trading him before the season starts, moves like that (major stars being traded just prior to the start of the season) rarely happen

Just a thought, I wonder if during the real season you'll see him with his hand on ground more often. I'm wondering if they're playing him in a 2 PT stance so often to let him get some reps. It seems to me that Ware plays with his hand on the ground a lot. Maybe they're letting Mario practice what he struggles with to help him improve. We already know what he can do with his hand on the ground.

Lucky
08-28-2011, 08:33 AM
How much time do we give him?
We? Is there some collective fan authority I'm not aware of? If there was, I think the Texans would have a new head coach by now.

Seriously, this is getting old. Williams isn't going to get benched or traded. Everyone here knows this. So, what's the point of this? I wanted Kubiak fired after the season, but you don't see me asking how many weeks McNair will give him. Why? Because it's not realistic. Kubiak will be here all year long. So will Mario Williams. Get used to it.

Speaking of WOLB, iirc, MW seemed to play more at SOLB.
Williams is not lining up over the TE. He's switching sides, based upon the strength of the formation (where the TE lines up). In the nickel, there's not a TE lined up next to the Tackle, so essentially there is not a strong side. So Mario and Barwin can flip, depending on the matchups.

DocBar
08-28-2011, 08:47 AM
We? Is there some collective fan authority I'm not aware of? If there was, I think the Texans would have a new head coach by now.

Seriously, this is getting old. Williams isn't going to get benched or traded. Everyone here knows this. So, what's the point of this? I wanted Kubiak fired after the season, but you don't see me asking how many weeks McNair will give him. Why? Because it's not realistic. Kubiak will be here all year long. So will Mario Williams. Get used to it.


Williams is not lining up over the TE. He's switching sides, based upon the strength of the formation (where the TE lines up). In the nickel, there's not a TE lined up next to the Tackle, so essentially there is not a strong side. So Mario and Barwin can flip, depending on the matchups.You didn't get the memo??? What does that tell ya? :kitten:
MW playing OLB isn't comparable to Kubiak getting fired or not. I'm more in favor of putting MW back at DE. I didn't say anything at all (in the post you referenced) about trading MW and I've never suggested he be benched.

Last night, I saw several snaps where the TE fired out past MW. That tells me he was SOLB on that play. That's why I brought it up. Maybe they motioned the TE to MW's side on those plays.

Lucky
08-28-2011, 08:49 AM
mario williams needs to play a bruce smith role as a 34 defensive end who moves outward in pass rush depending on situation and playcall. this is wade's initial assessment. this is the entire football world's initial assessment. this is bruce friggin smith's assessment. julius peppers insisted on wanting a job as an OLB in a 34 and couldnt find a suitor, why would we cater to such wishes from a more run oriented DE?
Scooter, you make a lot of good points. But, it was Wade Phillips who made this call. I'm not sure if I agree or disagree, but I do want to give Wade the benefit of the doubt. He's forgotten more football than we will collectively know. For the first time in years, we have coaching competency on the defensive side of the ball. And from everything I've seen, this defense is working.

If and when they fail, then I think it's OK to question moves. With the exception of a tremendous play by Barwin, and a blown assignment by the Niners guard Iupati, Williams would have had 2 sacks in the first half of last night's game. The Niners only had 13 pass plays in the 1st half. Two went for sacks and 2 went for INTs. Granted, this is probably the NFLs worst passing attack since the '05 Texans. But, I just don't see how someone can look at last night's effort from anyone and ascertain that the Texans have a problem on defense.

All I am saying....is give Wade a chance.

Scooter
08-28-2011, 12:01 PM
Scooter, you make a lot of good points. But, it was Wade Phillips who made this call. I'm not sure if I agree or disagree, but I do want to give Wade the benefit of the doubt. He's forgotten more football than we will collectively know. For the first time in years, we have coaching competency on the defensive side of the ball. And from everything I've seen, this defense is working.

If and when they fail, then I think it's OK to question moves. With the exception of a tremendous play by Barwin, and a blown assignment by the Niners guard Iupati, Williams would have had 2 sacks in the first half of last night's game. The Niners only had 13 pass plays in the 1st half. Two went for sacks and 2 went for INTs. Granted, this is probably the NFLs worst passing attack since the '05 Texans. But, I just don't see how someone can look at last night's effort from anyone and ascertain that the Texans have a problem on defense.

All I am saying....is give Wade a chance.

you're exactly right. however, i'm not entirely buying that mario at OLB is wade's first choice. when wade signed on the talk from him was that mario would transition to defensive end, which mario wasnt thrilled about. without a single practice we went from there to mario as the starting WOLB in less than a month.

someone else suggested it, but i agree that has a little bit of carr in '06 feel to it - either from kubiak trying to keep the locker room happy or mcnair wanting to keep a star player. if wade feels that rush OLB is mario's best position, i'll support it because as you've said he's forgotten more football than most of us will ever know. i'm not sold that wade made that call, or did so without a less than subtle "suggestion".

dont get me wrong, the defense is looking great and is exciting to watch for the first time since we played the steelers in '04(?), but "one of these things is not like the others" ... and that's the big guy in my sig.

Rey
08-28-2011, 12:29 PM
On nolans first pick there were three pass blockers focused on Mario.

I don't know what the fuss is about. Mario looks good to me. Whether or not that was wades first choice has no effect on how he has looked to me thus far.

He's getting good pressure and he is opening things up for others. He's consistently been in the qb's face even though the sacks haven't come.

I was more concerned about his run stopping from the position, and he's made some mistakes there, but overall I think he looks good.

I think that over the course of the season he is going to be a beast.

thunderkyss
08-28-2011, 12:42 PM
you're exactly right. however, i'm not entirely buying that mario at OLB is wade's first choice. when wade signed on the talk from him was that mario would transition to defensive end, which mario wasnt thrilled about. without a single practice we went from there to mario as the starting WOLB in less than a month.


Everyone but you feel this is somehow related to the draft.

The theory is that the Texans wanted Aldon Smith to drop to us, but he didn't. Had the Texans drafted Aldon Smith, he would have played the WOLB position.

We didn't get Smith, stayed put & took the BPA, JJ Watt.

Maybe at the time, they felt OLB was a week spot. But all of them are looking fairly good. Barwin, Reed, Nading... Making Mario an OLB makes that a deeper group & Keeps Antonio Smith on the field.

drunkcookie
08-28-2011, 12:53 PM
Yet again, Mario looked more comfortable at the position... Still a lot of room to improve, though...

It is what it is, hasn't cost any games or anything so stop the beotchn...

IDEXAN
08-28-2011, 01:09 PM
Mario looked more comfortable at the position... Still a lot of room to improve, though...

A guy in another thread on this website responded when someone asked how Mario looked last night, "he looked like Brooks Reeds backup".
And anybody remember Greg Kragen, the big rangy white-boy who played nose for Wade with the Broncos back in the day. Remind you of anybody on our team today ? Yea that's right, put JJ Watt at the nose and Antonio and
Mario at DE with Barwin & Reed at OLB. There's a lineup for you ?

Rey
08-28-2011, 01:17 PM
A guy in another thread on this website responded when someone asked how Mario looked last night, "he looked like Brooks Reeds backup".
And anybody remember Greg Kragen, the big rangy white-boy who played nose for Wade with the Broncos back in the day. Remind you of anybody on our team today ? Yea that's right, put JJ Watt at the nose and Antonio and
Mario at DE with Barwin & Reed at OLB. There's a lineup for you ?

Honestly that's what I thought they would do when we got watts. But I think Mario is more effective rushing from the edge.

I think Mario doesn't have great leverage and that hurts him when he gets inside.

drunkcookie
08-28-2011, 01:22 PM
put JJ Watt at the nose and Antonio and
Mario at DE with Barwin & Reed at OLB. There's a lineup for you ?

Sounds good, dunno why the professionals haven't made that change yet..

Lucky
08-28-2011, 02:12 PM
i'm not sold that wade made that call, or did so without a less than subtle "suggestion".
Wow, I get the impression that what Wade wants, Wade gets. He looks like he's in total control of the defense. Hell, he was in control of the draft. And free agency, for that matter.

It's Wade's world. We're just living in it.

(Wade's World. One of you photoshop wizards should come up with that)

Errant Hothy
08-28-2011, 04:49 PM
Wow, I get the impression that what Wade wants, Wade gets. He looks like he's in total control of the defense. Hell, he was in control of the draft. And free agency, for that matter.

It's Wade's world. We're just living in it.

(Wade's World. One of you photoshop wizards should come up with that)

Except that in one of Wade's first pressers hecwas discussing how much of an impact MW could have as a 5 tech ala Bruce Smith. Than in the space of six weeks are so MW is being talked about as an OLB. So what caused Wade to change his mind? Was it pressure from up top, or MW himself, or did Wade see something on tape?

I thought MW looked better last night, but I still think he would be more effective as a 5 DE.

infantrycak
08-28-2011, 04:53 PM
Except that in one of Wade's first pressers hecwas discussing how much of an impact MW could have as a 5 tech ala Bruce Smith. Than in the space of six weeks are so MW is being talked about as an OLB. So what caused Wade to change his mind? Was it pressure from up top, or MW himself, or did Wade see something on tape?

I thought MW looked better last night, but I still think he would be more effective as a 5 DE.

Maybe during that time period he had an opportunity to look at a lot more game tape.

IDEXAN
08-28-2011, 04:54 PM
Except that in one of Wade's first pressers hecwas discussing how much of an impact MW could have as a 5 tech ala Bruce Smith. Than in the space of six weeks are so MW is being talked about as an OLB. So what caused Wade to change his mind? Was it pressure from up top, or MW himself, or did Wade see something on tape?

I thought MW looked better last night, but I still think he would be more effective as a 5 DE.

OK that's what I'm talking about, and it also makes room for Brooks Reed in the starting lineup. What's not to like about that ?

Rey
08-28-2011, 04:59 PM
Maybe during that time period he had an opportunity to look at a lot more game tape.

LOL! (literally) - I think I will change it to LLOL.

But yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

Last night during the broadcast if the game they mentioned how wade realized that the team had more talent than he initially thought.

Not sure why it's such a far out possibility that he changed his mind.

Folks automatically assume that Mario whined his way to olb and I just don't get that.

DocBar
08-28-2011, 05:05 PM
Maybe during that time period he had an opportunity to look at a lot more game tape.That's a valid point. I wonder if he's gotten a new prescription for his glasses since then. :kitten:

Errant Hothy
08-28-2011, 06:53 PM
Maybe during that time period he had an opportunity to look at a lot more game tape.

What part of Mario's 43 DE tape would convince anybody that he would be a better 34 OLB than a 5 tech DE?

The first things I think of when somebody says 34 OLB are a guyot quick first step and a set of polished pass rushing moves to bet an OT with in a one on one situation. Not the first things to come to my mind when talking about MW's game. As Solomon tweeter last night (paraphrasing) " Beautiful swim move. May be the first one I've ever seen from him.". Than again maybe Wade did see something one tape thatvinspired him to make MW an OLB.

Like I sail earlier, i thought there was some noticeable improvement last night, the move to hurdle the chipping RB might be one of the greatest feats of agility for a man that size ever.

I feel better about the move today than I did this time last week.