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View Full Version : It's just Pre Season........


thunderkyss
08-23-2011, 04:50 PM
I know it's just preseason, & it's just stats. But it kinda caught my eye, that the Redskins have the #1 offense .. & the #1 Defense. (http://www.nfl.com/stats/team)I haven't watched any of their games yet so I don't know what to make of it. But I've got a couple on the ol' DVR so I'm going to take a look.

I know it doesn't mean that they're Super Bowl favorites. But it's got to count for something right?

Dutchrudder
08-23-2011, 05:35 PM
I know it's just preseason, & it's just stats. But it kinda caught my eye, that the Redskins have the #1 offense .. & the #1 Defense. (http://www.nfl.com/stats/team)I haven't watched any of their games yet so I don't know what to make of it. But I've got a couple on the ol' DVR so I'm going to take a look.

I know it doesn't mean that they're Super Bowl favorites. But it's got to count for something right?

Two words explain this: Dan Orlovsky

brakos82
08-23-2011, 05:38 PM
I'll say, Washington has been rocking and rolling lately. :heh:

drs23
08-23-2011, 05:54 PM
Like TK says, it's only preseason. They'll fold like a $2 suitcase starting about 09-11.

Hide-n-watch.

Norg
08-23-2011, 06:36 PM
the redskins are the Texans of the east now

or are we the redskins of Texas ???? LOL

ChampionTexan
08-23-2011, 06:46 PM
the redskins are the Texans of the east now

or are we the redskins of Texas ???? LOL

In what way?

brakos82
08-23-2011, 06:48 PM
In what way?

In that "Norg sometimes don't make sense" way.

Rey
08-23-2011, 06:51 PM
In that "Norg sometimes don't make sense" way.

LOL...

"must spread"

No offense Norg...

drs23
08-23-2011, 06:55 PM
In what way?

In a: you'll never get a direct, much less intelligent response from "that poster" way. JMO

Norg
08-23-2011, 08:16 PM
In what way?


In terms of we are forever linked in Coaching psycology and the way they build da teams and in Offensive playbook ...... : )

Mike shannhan and Kubaik HELLO

DocBar
08-23-2011, 08:47 PM
I know it's just preseason, & it's just stats. But it kinda caught my eye, that the Redskins have the #1 offense .. & the #1 Defense. (http://www.nfl.com/stats/team)I haven't watched any of their games yet so I don't know what to make of it. But I've got a couple on the ol' DVR so I'm going to take a look.

I know it doesn't mean that they're Super Bowl favorites. But it's got to count for something right?No.

Speedy
08-23-2011, 09:56 PM
What happened to the Lions when they went 4-0 in the pre-season in 2008 and had a defense that only gave up 32 points in those 4 games, by far the best in the NFL pre-season?

Their 4 wins:
13-10 over the Giants
27-10 over the Bengals
26-6 over the Browns
14-6 over the Bills

To keep you from Googling, I'll just give you the answer. They went 0-16.

Redskins? 16-7 over Pittsburgh. No scoring in the 1st quarter which means it was all done with 2nd and 3rd teamers.
And then 16-3 over a Manning-less Colts. A Colts team historically bad in pre-season anyway going 4-19 since 2006.

Pre-season records and stats are pretty meaningless.

thunderkyss
08-23-2011, 10:04 PM
What happened to the Lions when they went 4-0 in the pre-season in 2008 and had a defense that only gave up 32 points in those 4 games, by far the best in the NFL pre-season?


I'm not talking about the W-L, I'm talking about them leading the league in offense & defense.

So Ben Tate gets 95 yards on 9 carries. Foster looks better than he did last year. Andre & Schaub looks like they're ready for the regular season. Mario IS improving.......

What does all that mean?

What does it mean that the Redskins are leading the league in offense & defense?

Hervoyel
08-23-2011, 10:14 PM
I'm not talking about the W-L, I'm talking about them leading the league in offense & defense.

So Ben Tate gets 95 yards on 9 carries. Foster looks better than he did last year. Andre & Schaub looks like they're ready for the regular season. Mario IS improving.......

What does all that mean?

What does it mean that the Redskins are leading the league in offense & defense?

Mayan Calendar Explanation? End of times?

"The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, The Redskins leading in both offense and defense!... mass hysteria!"

Wolf
08-23-2011, 10:22 PM
Keith was on a roll and thanks to someone on this board, I have been reading this in the tone of "Real Men of Genius" .......... heres to to Fake Season Czar™ :kitten:

August 21, 2011
All Hail The Fake Season Czar™
by Keith Weiland

Coach August would like to use this space to remind all of y'all that champions are made by how you practice, and especially by how you play these practice games. You see, these preseason victories give the team momentum, and that's just not something you flip on and off.

You probably think it's hard to flip it back on in the final month of the season, too, like when a team starts off 4-7 then really rips into it when it counts down the stretch. That's right. Coach August likes being Coach December, too. That's just how he rolls.

Hell yeah, the Texans whupped the Saints and Jets at home in fake games to start the preseason 2-0. Those are playoff teams, darn good ones, too. Their second and third stringers are really licking their wounds after making the trip to Gridiron, Texas, aren't they?

So damn right you better start printing those Super Bowl tickets. Mayor Annise Parker, if you haven't already drawn up the parade route, then you might as well punch FEMA into your speed dial. You're gonna want to go National Guard on this town once this team gets rolling.

These Texans are a juggernaut because the preseason tells us so. Buckle up, Space City. We are a go for launch. Once we get done with August, then look out for us come December because you know that The Fake Season Czar™ never loses in Week 17. That's right, 5-0 to close out every regular season, 'cause there's nothing like having that momentum heading into next August.

Oh snap, NFL! You just got served.

http://www.inthebullseye.com/

ArlingtonTexan
08-23-2011, 10:30 PM
I'm not talking about the W-L, I'm talking about them leading the league in offense & defense.

So Ben Tate gets 95 yards on 9 carries. Foster looks better than he did last year. Andre & Schaub looks like they're ready for the regular season. Mario IS improving.......

What does all that mean?

What does it mean that the Redskins are leading the league in offense & defense?

No more or less than what w/l record means. Teams play about 6 to 8 quarters of first team versus first team football out of 16. While I feel better about a team when it plays well, there have been more than enough studies floating around that show zero correlation between pre and regular season success no matter how measured record/yards/points/turnovers, etc.

All of that said, the Redskins could have a better than expected year as all three of their opponents in the NFC East look to be overrated with clear holes. The key will be whether or not Beck or Grossman plays to at least an acceptable level. I don't think they are as far from their foes as some (maybe many) think.

Speedy
08-23-2011, 10:42 PM
I'm not talking about the W-L, I'm talking about them leading the league in offense & defense.

So Ben Tate gets 95 yards on 9 carries. Foster looks better than he did last year. Andre & Schaub looks like they're ready for the regular season. Mario IS improving.......

What does all that mean?

What does it mean that the Redskins are leading the league in offense & defense?

The Lions led the league in points allowed. It doesn't mean anything.

Tate and Foster looked good. For ONE QUARTER OF PLAY by each so far. Foster at least has 16 games under his belt. Tate is still wait and see. He's only played a quarter and 2 plays in his career so far and all of that is pre-season.

What do the Redskins starters look like?

There's so many different units going into these games, players that would normally play 4 quarters playing just one, you just can't go by stats to tell you anything because they're not real. It's not how a real football game is played. It doesn't matter how the 2nd and 3rd string adds to the pre-season stat sheet, they won't be on the field come Sept. 11, so those stats don't really mean anything.

Even when you look at individual stats, you've got to look at who they played against. Was he in there against the 1st unit? 2nd, 3rd?

The Steelers D is ranked 31. I guess they're going to suck this year.

Speedy
08-23-2011, 11:35 PM
Oh, and for what it's worth, the Texans were ranked 9th in total defense last pre-season. That's right, the Texans defense was top 10 in the NFL last pre-season.

That should tell you everything you need to know about pre-season stats.

thunderkyss
08-23-2011, 11:53 PM
Mayan Calendar Explanation? End of times?

"The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, The Redskins leading in both offense and defense!... mass hysteria!"

That's what I was afraid of.
:kitten:

thunderkyss
08-31-2011, 01:58 PM
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a159/Thunderkyss/Texans.jpg

So here we go again... this time it's the Texans.

this thread is full of a lot of negatism (I think that's a word). Preseason don't mean crap kind of talk.

Which is bullshit. If it didn't mean anything, then why would they do it.

Think about it, if you are a coach & this is how your team performed in the preseason, what does it tell you?

Dutchrudder
08-31-2011, 02:22 PM
So here we go again... this time it's the Texans.

this thread is full of a lot of negatism (I think that's a word). Preseason don't mean crap kind of talk.

Which is bullshit. If it didn't mean anything, then why would they do it.

Think about it, if you are a coach & this is how your team performed in the preseason, what does it tell you?

It's just diluted by the fact that you don't have the starters playing 60 minutes. You have them play part of the preseason, but most of it is just backups and guys trying to make the team. The Redskins kicked the crap out of the Colts a couple weeks ago, but you would be a fool to bet on them to do that in the regular season. I think our 1's look great and I'm sipping on some kool-aid, but my enthusiasm is tempered by the fact that they have fallen short of expectations every year since 2008.

Vinny
08-31-2011, 02:35 PM
So here we go again... this time it's the Texans.

this thread is full of a lot of negatism (I think that's a word). Preseason don't mean crap kind of talk.

Which is bullshit. If it didn't mean anything, then why would they do it.

Think about it, if you are a coach & this is how your team performed in the preseason, what does it tell you?I think pessimism is a good word choice tk. A healthy dose of cynicism is good for any fan base. If every team had the same philosophy about playing starters (x amount of snaps) and coordinated the play of the backup players it would mean more, but they don't, so it doesn't. Get it? Got it? Good!

beerlover
08-31-2011, 02:41 PM
I think pessimism is a good word choice tk. A healthy dose of cynicism is good for any fan base. If every team had the same philosophy about playing starters (x amount of snaps) and coordinated the play of the backup players it would mean more, but they don't, so it doesn't. Get it? Got it? Good!

Hopefully you'll stick around for the regular season too, big ol' leader of this board.

Double Barrel
08-31-2011, 02:44 PM
Pre-season games can often be fool's gold. They are exhibition games, glorified practice to evaluate talent and get starting units into the grind of playing games.

Heck, I couldn't even trust a real 4-2 record during the regular season last year. The Texans went 2-8 after that Best Start In Franchise History. So I'm certainly not going to drink any koolaide based upon a 3-0 pre-season record.

All that said, I do like some of the aspects that we are seeing with the team, especially on defense. But I will wait to see how that translates to the regular season before planning a playoff party.

Playoffs
08-31-2011, 02:47 PM
Consider the 2010 preseason:


The Super Bowl champion Green Bay Packers went 2-2. So did the New England Patriots, who finished with the best record in the NFL, and the Atlanta Falcons, who had the best record in the NFC.

The only team to go 4-0 in preseason was the hugely disappointing San Francisco 49ers, who finished 6-10 in the NFL's weakest division.

Two teams went 0-4: the Chicago Bears and Indianapolis Colts, both of whom won their divisions.

The division-winning Bears, Colts, and Chiefs finished a combined 1-11 in preseason.

.....

The Colts finished 1-3 or worse every year from 2005-09, a total record of 4-18 (.182). Their regular-season record over those seasons was 65-15 (.813), every season 12-4 or better, including two years at 14-2, with two AFC titles and a win in Super Bowl XLI.

thunderkyss
08-31-2011, 03:03 PM
Consider the 2010 preseason:


The Super Bowl champion Green Bay Packers went 2-2. So did the New England Patriots, who finished with the best record in the NFL, and the Atlanta Falcons, who had the best record in the NFC.

The only team to go 4-0 in preseason was the hugely disappointing San Francisco 49ers, who finished 6-10 in the NFL's weakest division.

Two teams went 0-4: the Chicago Bears and Indianapolis Colts, both of whom won their divisions.

The division-winning Bears, Colts, and Chiefs finished a combined 1-11 in preseason.

.....

The Colts finished 1-3 or worse every year from 2005-09, a total record of 4-18 (.182). Their regular-season record over those seasons was 65-15 (.813), every season 12-4 or better, including two years at 14-2, with two AFC titles and a win in Super Bowl XLI.


So we know what the pre-season is not. Does that mean it is completely meaningless? I don't think so.

4-0 doesn't mean you're going to have a good season, any more than 0-4 means you'll have a bad season.

Statwise, along with actual player performance, I think tells you that your guys get what you're teaching them & they are at least able to see some success. Which is good to build on.

I've got no delusions that the Texans are going to win the Super Bowl simply because they won 3 preseason games. I was thinking that way anyway. But I am not worried about what shoe is going to drop on the Texans in 2011.

I was thinking we were going to have some kind of problem on offense... But Schaub & AJ look like they picked up where they left off... Arian, & Tate look great & the OL looks like they're gell'n.

Defensively, it looks to me like the team has bought into Wade Phillips & they are itch'n to prove something.

& I know it's just the preseason, but I feel sorry for any team that has to play against the Lions D when the games mean something.

Rey
08-31-2011, 03:09 PM
John McClain was on the radio today and he was saying something about play off teams having a 60 something winning percentage in pre season.

Wins in the pre season aren't a bad thing.

Playoffs
08-31-2011, 03:19 PM
...Defensively, it looks to me like the team has bought into Wade Phillips & they are itch'n to prove something.

& I know it's just the preseason, but I feel sorry for any team that has to play against the Lions D when the games mean something.
Agree with both of these statements.

New D-Coordinator, new techniques, optimism, focus, motors running high for us. Been fun to watch our guys overwhelm the QBs with pressure. But it starts counting when Peyton is writhing on the ground and the ball is loose.

infantrycak
08-31-2011, 03:21 PM
this thread is full of a lot of negatism (I think that's a word).

Just to be helpful, you are thinking of negativism.

Speedy
08-31-2011, 08:30 PM
Which is bullshit. If it didn't mean anything, then why would they do it.


They do it to get veterans up to speed and to evaluate talent. In that sense, the games do mean something. The records and stats mean nothing. The Texans are 0-0 right now, not 3-0. There will be no trophy or parade should the Texans go 4-0 this pre-season.

Again, the Texans had a top 10 defense last year in the pre-season. Not saying the same thing will play out this year since they finally seem to have a coach that knows a little something about the game of football, but those stats don't mean a damn thing. There's too many things that take it away from how a football game would be played in the regular season, like 2nd and 3rd stringers in as whole units.

How much better would the Texans offense be ranked if Schaub, AJ, Foster and co. had not given way to Leinart, Ogbonnaya, and the rest of those 2nd and 3rd stringers? It's not the same game, it isn't played the same way a regular season game is played.

All 12 playoff teams last year were a combined 20-28 in the pre-season last year. Only 2 of those 12 teams had winning pre-season records. 2 playoff teams were 0-4 in last year's pre-season. Of the 10 teams that had winning records in the pre-season last year, only 2 had winning records in the regular season and were a combined 72-88.

Pre-season stats and records mean nothing. Getting players up to speed and evaluating talent does mean something. That's why they play these games.

thunderkyss
08-31-2011, 10:01 PM
Which is bullshit. If it didn't mean anything, then why would they do it.


They do it to get veterans up to speed and to evaluate talent. In that sense, the games do mean something. The records and stats mean nothing. The Texans are 0-0 right now, not 3-0. There will be no trophy or parade should the Texans go 4-0 this pre-season.

The parts in bold, I think we agree on. I don't know why you keep bringing that up.

I've stated as much in my post.

Again, the Texans had a top 10 defense last year in the pre-season. Not saying the same thing will play out this year since they finally seem to have a coach that knows a little something about the game of football, but those stats don't mean a damn thing. There's too many things that take it away from how a football game would be played in the regular season, like 2nd and 3rd stringers in as whole units.

The Texans practice every week right? Depending on what happened that week in practice, and factoring in long term trends, the Texans will have an idea of how they are going to do on Sunday. It doesn't always turn out the way they planned. There's too many things that take away from how a football game would be played in a real game.

But a coach can tell who is ready to play, & who isn't.

I also believe the Texans defense would have been much closer to that top ten ranking had we not lost Bulman, Barwin, Cushing, Demeco, Mario, and Eugene for various games throughout the year.



How much better would the Texans offense be ranked if Schaub, AJ, Foster and co. had not given way to Leinart, Ogbonnaya, and the rest of those 2nd and 3rd stringers? It's not the same game, it isn't played the same way a regular season game is played.


I thought we already established that we're evaluating new talent as well as getting the vets up to speed.

The stats show that we've got depth to work with. We're still screwed (I think) if we lose Schaub for much of the year. But If we lose him against the Dolphins, or the Bucs or the Titans at home, I feel perfectly fine with Lienart steppin in.

I feel good even if Arian has to sit out week 1, the line is doing it's job, Ward/Tate would keep our run game in the game.





All 12 playoff teams last year were a combined 20-28 in the pre-season last year. Only 2 of those 12 teams had winning pre-season records. 2 playoff teams were 0-4 in last year's pre-season. Of the 10 teams that had winning records in the pre-season last year, only 2 had winning records in the regular season and were a combined 72-88.

Choir over here. Your preaching to the choir.....



Pre-season stats and records mean nothing. Getting players up to speed and evaluating talent does mean something. That's why they play these games.


no doubt that your eyeballs should account for the majority of your evaluation, but it would be foolish to discount stats. It would be stupid not to understand these stats are from the preseason... & your opponent, but the stats still have some meaning.

Like WWE wrestling. It's fake, but it's entertaining. There's truth in Wrestling, you just have to know where to look & how to apply it. Triple H is huge, the Rock is electrifying, & Stone Cold is a BMF. They are all athletic as F@# & take better care of their bodies than I do.

The problem is when you are no longer able to discern reality from fantasy.