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gary
08-21-2011, 02:34 PM
The progress was subtle but arguably significant. Although Mario Williams was again less than dazzling against the Saints in his new role as an edge-rushing outside linebacker, he did make meaningful strides against the Saints compared to his debut against the Jets Monday night.

This time, Williams seemed modestly comfortable, even in coverage. He almost had an interception and, when Antonio Smith separated Drew Brees from the football with New Orleans sitting on a first-and-goal at the Texans' 4, Williams was in the right place at the right time to recover the fumble. Demarcus Ware he isn't yet – never mind Lawrence Taylor - but, if you watched him closely, you detected plenty of improvement.

For the most part, tenaciousness trumped tentativeness. Williams' performance deserves to be rewarded with a measure of patience from Houston's anxious fans.

"Over time, it's going to become more second nature for me," Williams said. "I didn't realize it was going to be this different. Tonight I felt like I ran around a little better, but I've still got to remember to bend a lot more. I'm so tall, I've got to concentrate on getting lower. Once I do, I think I'll be a lot more fluid."

Williams is listed at 6-6 but, as he works on transitioning to a completely foreign way of playing, he says he feels "like I'm 6-8. I think I must be growing."

He has been going after the quarterback out of a three-point stance "my whole life," he said. "But, with the situation we have right now, changing defenses, it's just something I got to work hard at. My weight needs to be forward. I can't have any false steps. I need to be more efficient standing up. It's something that's completely new for me. I never had to worry about standing up before.

"But I felt better tonight, definitely, from the first night."

More is arguably being asked of Williams, a former Pro Bowler as a defensive end in a 4-3 set, than any other player on the roster. But he has selflessly bought into new defensive coordinator Wade Phillips' program.

"I have full faith in what (Phillips) is telling everybody to do, including myself," he said. "It will get done. I'm not worried about it."
http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-Williams-shows-improvement-at-new-position-2134436.php

thunderkyss
08-21-2011, 03:02 PM
I'm just saying..... Brooks Reed, Connor Barwin, & Jesse Nading seem to be handling the position change........ better.

So are JJWatt, Antonio Smith, & Tim Jamison...

I'm just saying.

A Playmaker would have caught that ball even though he had a fat man rolling up on his knees..

srrono
08-21-2011, 03:09 PM
I'm just saying..... Brooks Reed, Connor Barwin, & Jesse Nading seem to be handling the position change........ better.

So are JJWatt, Antonio Smith, & Tim Jamison...

I'm just saying.

A Playmaker would have caught that ball even though he had a fat man rolling up on his knees..

Mario isnt playing his natural position its going to take a little time for him to get adjusted I thought he looked a lot more at ease last night. As far as brooks and nading im glad they are shining for depth but you have to remeber they are playing against 2nd and 3rd teamers.

TexansFanatic
08-21-2011, 03:09 PM
The title of this thread made me chuckle when I remembered the skits Dana Carvey used to do when he was playing George H.W. Bush.

He would say: "Dan Quayle----still. gaining. acceptance."

gary
08-21-2011, 03:33 PM
Williams should at least be given until the first few weeks of the regular season to show a huge improvement JMO.

Lucky
08-21-2011, 03:37 PM
As far as brooks and nading im glad they are shining for depth but you have to remeber they are playing against 2nd and 3rd teamers.
No, that will go unmentioned because it doesn't support their position. Mario would have been dominated by Jordan Black, too.

gary
08-21-2011, 04:07 PM
I would take Mario's word and the sports writers rather than just our own on the MB and if he has a great year then I hope they will re-sign him somehow.

NitroGSXR
08-21-2011, 04:08 PM
Mario looked like he was in coverage a lot and I thought he did well there. Plenty of pressure on the QB was given. You can't rush everybody. Confusing to opponents not to see Mario bull rush. Sort of like a decoy.

House of Pain
08-21-2011, 04:37 PM
I honestly can't understand a sizable portion of people who watch Texans football and post on this board about their observations. Is it that hard to understand that these guys aren't robots and they all have their own learning curve? Do you think Wade would put Mario in that position he thought he couldn't succeed in? It is a rare situation where a player can change their position where they have played their entire career at and expect them to instantly understand their new position after 2 preseason games and a very short off-season. I would imagine y'all are the same people who submit resumes for NFL head coaching vacancies based on the 19-0 season of your franchise mode in Madden.

I find it funny that the same people that are trashing Mario after 3 QUARTERS OF PRESEASON PLAY for being average, are not giving Quin any credit for his seamless transition to safety. (Did you see that guy flying around out there?)

I'm not saying that Mario will be the long term answer for the Texans. I don't know that yet. What I am saying is that Mario is a unique athletic talent, and can we all agree to wait until at least the regular season to judge him?

For all you doubters, keep in mind that Wade hasn't even dialed up any of his exotic (or regular) blitz packages. What do you think is going to happen when we get a mismatch on Mario and the secondary can cover their man 1 to 2 seconds longer than last year?

You guys can be unreasonable and freak out about games that don't matter on a message board as you slam Tab in your parents garage, but I'm going to reserve judgment until the regular season.

leebigeztx
08-21-2011, 04:39 PM
I'm just saying..... Brooks Reed, Connor Barwin, & Jesse Nading seem to be handling the position change........ better.

So are JJWatt, Antonio Smith, & Tim Jamison...

I'm just saying.

A Playmaker would have caught that ball even though he had a fat man rolling up on his knees..


Conor barwin isn't doing anything vs the run or pass.

Rey
08-21-2011, 05:04 PM
I have been pleased with the olb play in general and I though Mario looked good all things considered. Not sure what the complaints are about.

IDEXAN
08-21-2011, 05:34 PM
Mario isnt playing his natural position its going to take a little time for him to get adjusted I thought he looked a lot more at ease last night. As far as brooks and nading im glad they are shining for depth but you have to remeber they are playing against 2nd and 3rd teamers.
Neither is Brooks Reed playing his natural position and even if he's not going against starters, he's got like 3 sacks so far and how many does Mario have ? Right ! Just watch Reed, he's got the quicks, the explosiveness that Mario just doesn't have.

thunderkyss
08-21-2011, 05:49 PM
Mario isnt playing his natural position its going to take a little time for him to get adjusted I thought he looked a lot more at ease last night. As far as brooks and nading im glad they are shining for depth but you have to remeber they are playing against 2nd and 3rd teamers.


Shouldn't we expect our ones to make plays going against other ones?

I mean if our 2s are making plays against 2s, wouldn't it stand to reason our 1s would make plays against 1s?



Fine. lets just ignore that stupid way of thinking. Lets get a little more real.

In what aspect of the game do you think Mario is excelling at? Or can you direct me to one instance where his playmaking ability has shown itself?

Just so there is no misunderstanding here, click on my username there to the left & try to find one negative word about Mario outside this thread. I guarantee you won't find it. I've been one of his biggest supporters since day one. I'm also one of those guys who think it's stupid/crazy to be talking about trading him now.

Excuse me, if I'm not ready to sing his praises as an OLB, when he has given us nothing to sing about.

I want to get behind Wade's decision, just like most of you do. But I'm not going the Emporer has new clothes route. When I see something worth praising, I'll let you know.

Until then, I'd appreciate anybody pointing out to me the praise worthy aspects of the 280lb LB.

thetexanator
08-21-2011, 05:56 PM
the more i think about it, the less I like it. a 6'6 290 lb with no burst standing up is not going to work. the guy is not demarcus ware and we need to stop thinking he could be. the FO did what they did and drafted watt, now lets play that hand and let mario take smith's spot.

Playmaker
08-21-2011, 05:57 PM
I'm willing to give this experiment some time but personally I think there are 2 players out of position, Mario and Cushing. I would have put Mario on one end and let Watt/Smith platoon the other with Watt occasionally going NT. Then I would have Cushing on one of the OLB, I think one of Cushing's true gifts is hunting down the QB. Have Sharpton man one of the ILB beside Ryans. And I think Reed will eventually platoon with Barwin and might just take over the starting spot sometime this season.

thunderkyss
08-21-2011, 06:07 PM
I think I agree as much as I haven't seen anything special yet. But I dont know that im ready to give up yet either. The season is about to start, so I dont know how many more changes we want to make. Id actually feel better about trading Reed for Barwin in the starting line up. Mario & Smith are proven playmakers you dont take them off the field.

DocBar
08-21-2011, 06:12 PM
The progress was subtle but arguably significant. Although Mario Williams was again less than dazzling against the Saints in his new role as an edge-rushing outside linebacker, he did make meaningful strides against the Saints compared to his debut against the Jets Monday night.

This time, Williams seemed modestly comfortable, even in coverage. He almost had an interception and, when Antonio Smith separated Drew Brees from the football with New Orleans sitting on a first-and-goal at the Texans' 4, Williams was in the right place at the right time to recover the fumble. Demarcus Ware he isn't yet – never mind Lawrence Taylor - but, if you watched him closely, you detected plenty of improvement.

For the most part, tenaciousness trumped tentativeness. Williams' performance deserves to be rewarded with a measure of patience from Houston's anxious fans.

"Over time, it's going to become more second nature for me," Williams said. "I didn't realize it was going to be this different. Tonight I felt like I ran around a little better, but I've still got to remember to bend a lot more. I'm so tall, I've got to concentrate on getting lower. Once I do, I think I'll be a lot more fluid."

Williams is listed at 6-6 but, as he works on transitioning to a completely foreign way of playing, he says he feels "like I'm 6-8. I think I must be growing."

He has been going after the quarterback out of a three-point stance "my whole life," he said. "But, with the situation we have right now, changing defenses, it's just something I got to work hard at. My weight needs to be forward. I can't have any false steps. I need to be more efficient standing up. It's something that's completely new for me. I never had to worry about standing up before.

"But I felt better tonight, definitely, from the first night."

More is arguably being asked of Williams, a former Pro Bowler as a defensive end in a 4-3 set, than any other player on the roster. But he has selflessly bought into new defensive coordinator Wade Phillips' program.
"I have full faith in what (Phillips) is telling everybody to do, including myself," he said. "It will get done. I'm not worried about it."
http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-Williams-shows-improvement-at-new-position-2134436.phpCan you really say he's selflessly bought into this when all reports indicate he pitched a fit about being a 3-4 DE?

thunderkyss
08-21-2011, 06:13 PM
Mario isnt playing his natural position its going to take a little time for him to get adjusted I thought he looked a lot more at ease last night. As far as brooks and nading im glad they are shining for depth but you have to remeber they are playing against 2nd and 3rd teamers.


Shouldn't we expect our ones to make plays going against other ones?

I mean if our 2s are making plays against 2s, wouldn't it stand to reason our 1s would make plays against 1s?



Fine. lets just ignore that stupid way of thinking. Lets get a little more real.

In what aspect of the game do you think Mario is excelling at? Or can you direct me to one instance where his playmaking ability has shown itself?

Just so there is no misunderstanding here, click on my username there to the left & try to find one negative word about Mario outside this thread. I guarantee you won't find it. I've been one of his biggest supporters since day one. I'm also one of those guys who think it's stupid/crazy to be talking about trading him now.

Excuse me, if I'm not ready to sing his praises as an OLB, when he has given us nothing to sing about.

I want to get behind Wade's decision, just like most of you do. But I'm not going the Emporer has new clothes route. When I see something worth praising, I'll let you know.

Until then, I'd appreciate anybody pointing out to me the praise worthy aspects of the 280lb LB.

ObsiWan
08-21-2011, 06:21 PM
I honestly can't understand a sizable portion of people who watch Texans football and post on this board about their observations. Is it that hard to understand that these guys aren't robots and they all have their own learning curve? Do you think Wade would put Mario in that position he thought he couldn't succeed in? It is a rare situation where a player can change their position where they have played their entire career at and expect them to instantly understand their new position after 2 preseason games and a very short off-season. I would imagine y'all are the same people who submit resumes for NFL head coaching vacancies based on the 19-0 season of your franchise mode in Madden.

I find it funny that the same people that are trashing Mario after 3 QUARTERS OF PRESEASON PLAY for being average, are not giving Quin any credit for his seamless transition to safety. (Did you see that guy flying around out there?)

I'm not saying that Mario will be the long term answer for the Texans. I don't know that yet. What I am saying is that Mario is a unique athletic talent, and can we all agree to wait until at least the regular season to judge him?

For all you doubters, keep in mind that Wade hasn't even dialed up any of his exotic (or regular) blitz packages. What do you think is going to happen when we get a mismatch on Mario and the secondary can cover their man 1 to 2 seconds longer than last year?

You guys can be unreasonable and freak out about games that don't matter on a message board as you slam Tab in your parents garage, but I'm going to reserve judgment until the regular season.

Good post. Repped.
Think deeply about this train of thought. In essence, those who are saying Mario won't ever cut it at OLB are tacitly saying Wade doesn't know WTH he's doing because he shouldn't have put Mario in a position to fail.

I mean, if Wade didn't think Mario could make a successful transition, then why didn't he leave Mario at DE (where he is a pro bowl level player) and draft the best pass-rushing OLB with that first pick? It's obvious that this was Wade's draft. He could have done whatever he thought necessary. And it seems to me that leaving Mario and Antonio at DE and then picking up a speed-rushing OLB (say a Braman-type who's played the position all through college) would have been a sound draft strategy also. If opposing offenses double Mario then the speed guy gets thru, if they double the speed guy, then Mario gets thru.... But that's just me.

So if Wade thinks Mario can be (is?) a key component to his defensive plans at OLB that's good enough for me. While, as I said above, my strategy would have been different, I'm not going to pretend I know more about creating successful defenses than Wade does. After all, so far, it seems to be working.

Rey
08-21-2011, 06:24 PM
Shouldn't we expect our ones to make plays going against other ones?

I mean if our 2s are making plays against 2s, wouldn't it stand to reason our 1s would make plays against 1s?



Fine. lets just ignore that stupid way of thinking. Lets get a little more real.

In what aspect of the game do you think Mario is excelling at? Or can you direct me to one instance where his playmaking ability has shown itself?

Just so there is no misunderstanding here, click on my username there to the left & try to find one negative word about Mario outside this thread. I guarantee you won't find it. I've been one of his biggest supporters since day one. I'm also one of those guys who think it's stupid/crazy to be talking about trading him now.

Excuse me, if I'm not ready to sing his praises as an OLB, when he has given us nothing to sing about.

I want to get behind Wade's decision, just like most of you do. But I'm not going the Emporer has new clothes route. When I see something worth praising, I'll let you know.

Until then, I'd appreciate anybody pointing out to me the praise worthy aspects of the 280lb LB.

Mario got good pressure on brees a few times. He hasn't gotten the sacks, but over the course of an entire game, or an entire season the sacks will come.

He does not look god awful in his little zone drops, and he set the edge better in the run game last night.

Danieal manning hasn't made any plays either. But I think he too will prove worthy over the course of the season.

What situations do you think Mario should have played better? Do you think that he looks terrible out there?

thunderkyss
08-21-2011, 06:30 PM
What situations do you think Mario should have played better? Do you think that he looks terrible out there?

There are lots of things he could do better. I don't think he looks godawful... I just don't think he has done anything to warrant a "Mario IS improving at his new position" thread.


Ω

ObsiWan
08-21-2011, 06:33 PM
There are lots of things he could do better. I don't think he looks godawful... I just don't think he has done anything to warrant a "Mario IS improving at his new position" thread.


Ω

I see this way. You got a guy that's been writing right-handed all his life. Now you're making him write left-handed. It's gonna be a while before his penmanship is back to where it was when he was writing right-handed.

DocBar
08-21-2011, 06:42 PM
I honestly can't understand a sizable portion of people who watch Texans football and post on this board about their observations. Is it that hard to understand that these guys aren't robots and they all have their own learning curve? Do you think Wade would put Mario in that position he thought he couldn't succeed in? It is a rare situation where a player can change their position where they have played their entire career at and expect them to instantly understand their new position after 2 preseason games and a very short off-season. I would imagine y'all are the same people who submit resumes for NFL head coaching vacancies based on the 19-0 season of your franchise mode in Madden.

I find it funny that the same people that are trashing Mario after 3 QUARTERS OF PRESEASON PLAY for being average, are not giving Quin any credit for his seamless transition to safety. (Did you see that guy flying around out there?)

I'm not saying that Mario will be the long term answer for the Texans. I don't know that yet. What I am saying is that Mario is a unique athletic talent, and can we all agree to wait until at least the regular season to judge him?

For all you doubters, keep in mind that Wade hasn't even dialed up any of his exotic (or regular) blitz packages. What do you think is going to happen when we get a mismatch on Mario and the secondary can cover their man 1 to 2 seconds longer than last year?

You guys can be unreasonable and freak out about games that don't matter on a message board as you slam Tab in your parents garage, but I'm going to reserve judgment until the regular season.I think most people on here are more concerned about the team as a whole winning than they are about MW's play at OLB. If his play at OLB is lacking, then there's legitimate reasons to question the move.

Good post. Repped.
Think deeply about this train of thought. In essence, those who are saying Mario won't ever cut it at OLB are tacitly saying Wade doesn't know WTH he's doing because he shouldn't have put Mario in a position to fail.

I mean, if Wade didn't think Mario could make a successful transition, then why didn't he leave Mario at DE (where he is a pro bowl level player) and draft the best pass-rushing OLB with that first pick? It's obvious that this was Wade's draft. He could have done whatever he thought necessary. And it seems to me that leaving Mario and Antonio at DE and then picking up a speed-rushing OLB (say a Braman-type who's played the position all through college) would have been a sound draft strategy also. If opposing offenses double Mario then the speed guy gets thru, if they double the speed guy, then Mario gets thru.... But that's just me.

So if Wade thinks Mario can be (is?) a key component to his defensive plans at OLB that's good enough for me. While, as I said above, my strategy would have been different, I'm not going to pretend I know more about creating successful defenses than Wade does. After all, so far, it seems to be working.Kubiak and HWWNBM comes to mind in this case. Would it have been more of a distraction having a disgruntled MW at DE maybe demanding a trade? I'm not saying he would do that, but the possibility exists. Maybe WP figured he could give it a shot and see how it works out. Given time, the move very well could work out, but do the Texans coaching staff have the luxury of time? I don't think so.

thunderkyss
08-21-2011, 07:00 PM
I see this way. You got a guy that's been writing right-handed all his life. Now you're making him write left-handed. It's gonna be a while before his penmanship is back to where it was when he was writing right-handed.

So how is this different from Barwin, Nading, & Reed?

They were all left handed.

ObsiWan
08-21-2011, 07:02 PM
So how is this different from Barwin, Nading, & Reed?

They were all left handed.

And with the possible exception of Reed, they haven't done much either. And both Reed and Nading are going against 2's.

thunderkyss
08-21-2011, 07:11 PM
And with the possible exception of Reed, they haven't done much either. And both Reed and Nading are going against 2's.

2s making plays against 2s........

1s not making plays against 1s......

HJam72
08-21-2011, 07:26 PM
You know, honestly, I think that generally our LBs getting to the QB is mostly because of Wade's 3-4. In other words, they usually get there because they aren't getting blocked by anybody (not always, but usually). You can bet your butt that somebody is assigned to block Mario on every play. What impresses me is the scheme....and guys like Watt getting to the QB... Reed muscled through a blocking back too, but we've got to give Mario some of the credit for OTHER LBs being free.

We also talk about transitions for various players, but I don't think anyone is making as big a transition as Mario. He wasn't even really a weak side DE in the 4-3; he was more of a strong side DE. I'm not so sure he should be switching to LB, but let's give 'im some time.

If it doesn't work out, maybe we trade him in the offseason and get something for him....or, maybe he bulks up and becomes something special on the line, along with Watt.

JB
08-21-2011, 07:28 PM
The Texans have won both of their games that they have played. Yet we're complaining about ?

The defense has shown major improvement over the fiasco that was put on the field.
This has been the shortest offseason they have ever had. Installing a new defense. New personnel. And we are complaining?

Two weeks until the regular season. The division looks right for the plucking.

And we are complaining?

(figurative we in all of the above)

Nice to see that things are still the same on this board...

DocBar
08-21-2011, 07:32 PM
You know, honestly, I think that generally our LBs getting to the QB is mostly because of Wade's 3-4. In other words, they usually get there because they aren't getting blocked by anybody (not always, but usually). You can bet your butt that somebody is assigned to block Mario on every play. What impresses me is the scheme....and guys like Watt getting to the QB... Reed muscled through a blocking back too, but we've got to give Mario some of the credit for OTHER LBs being free.

We also talk about transitions for various players, but I don't think anyone is making as big a transition as Mario. He wasn't even really a weak side DE in the 4-3; he was more of a strong side DE. So we could be using MW as a decoy so others can make plays? Sounds so Reggie Bush-ish. :kitten:

srrono
08-21-2011, 07:37 PM
2s making plays against 2s........

1s not making plays against 1s......

What playmaking would you consider progress for MW?

HJam72
08-21-2011, 07:43 PM
So we could be using MW as a decoy so others can make plays? Sounds so Reggie Bush-ish. :kitten:

He has to get to the QB eventually, but we're talking about his 2nd preseason game here.

My main concern with Mario is not whether he can do this or that, it's whether or not he will. Mario needs to show some heart, but this isn't the time to expect pro bowl caliber play from him.

gary
08-21-2011, 07:44 PM
Mario isn't making every play just yet but it is way too early to say that he never will.

DocBar
08-21-2011, 07:45 PM
You know, honestly, I think that generally our LBs getting to the QB is mostly because of Wade's 3-4. In other words, they usually get there because they aren't getting blocked by anybody (not always, but usually). You can bet your butt that somebody is assigned to block Mario on every play. What impresses me is the scheme....and guys like Watt getting to the QB... Reed muscled through a blocking back too, but we've got to give Mario some of the credit for OTHER LBs being free.

We also talk about transitions for various players, but I don't think anyone is making as big a transition as Mario. He wasn't even really a weak side DE in the 4-3; he was more of a strong side DE. I'm not so sure he should be switching to LB, but let's give 'im some time.

If it doesn't work out, maybe we trade him in the offseason and get something for him....or, maybe he bulks up and becomes something special on the line, along with Watt.

What playmaking would you consider progress for MW?I want to see the bull rush I keep hearing about in practice reports.

HJam72
08-21-2011, 07:46 PM
I want to see the bull rush I keep hearing about in practice reports.

Yeah, I gotta agree with that, cuz I'm not seeing that part either. :kitten:

Wolf
08-21-2011, 07:55 PM
Kubiak: Williams took “big step forward” vs. Saints

At this weekly press conference on Sunday, Texans coach Gary Kubiak said that Mario Williams took a “big step forward” at outside linebacker in the Texans’ preseason game against the New Orleans Saints.

Williams, who's transitioning from defensive end, had two solo tackles, a pass defensed and a forced fumble in close to two quarters of action on Saturday night.

“I thought he played really good after I went back and looked at it,” Kubiak said. “He doesn’t have two or three sacks, which makes it easy to say he was good. But if you watch, he was very disruptive in the pocket.

"They tried to keep a tight end on him a couple of times. He did a good job just throwing him back into (Drew) Brees’ hip and pushing the pocket. Played better in space. Just assignment-wise, everything he’s doing – (linebackers coach) Reggie (Herring) and (defensive coordinator) Wade (Phillips) are trying to get him settled down in what he’s doing. It was just a big step forward.

“I think you’ll see him continue to get better. He’s really taking to what they’re trying to teach him. It is something totally different, but you see it getting better every day.”

Kubiak also praised the play of rookie outside linebacker Brooks Reed, who had two sacks and two forced fumbles against the Saints. The second-round draft pick from Arizona will likely get reps with the first-team defense this week.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Kubiak-Williams-took-%E2%80%9Cbig-step-forward%E2%80%9D-vs-Saints/9eaa20c2-4931-43f2-8ed0-a941b4448913

thunderkyss
08-21-2011, 07:56 PM
What playmaking would you consider progress for MW?

anything more than the less than bleh we have seen.

El Tejano
08-21-2011, 08:05 PM
You know, honestly, I think that generally our LBs getting to the QB is mostly because of Wade's 3-4. In other words, they usually get there because they aren't getting blocked by anybody (not always, but usually). You can bet your butt that somebody is assigned to block Mario on every play. What impresses me is the scheme....and guys like Watt getting to the QB... Reed muscled through a blocking back too, but we've got to give Mario some of the credit for OTHER LBs being free.

We also talk about transitions for various players, but I don't think anyone is making as big a transition as Mario. He wasn't even really a weak side DE in the 4-3; he was more of a strong side DE. I'm not so sure he should be switching to LB, but let's give 'im some time.

If it doesn't work out, maybe we trade him in the offseason and get something for him....or, maybe he bulks up and becomes something special on the line, along with Watt.

That's pretty much what happened on Adibi's first sack vs. The Jets. Mario comes running up the middle at the same time Adibi is there, but the lineman chose to block Mario and Adibi got the sack. If that lineman goes after Adibi, we don't have this thread at all.

gafftop
08-21-2011, 08:08 PM
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Kubiak-Williams-took-%E2%80%9Cbig-step-forward%E2%80%9D-vs-Saints/9eaa20c2-4931-43f2-8ed0-a941b4448913

Anybody notice that on the long TD pass in the first half against the Texans the Saints neutralized Super Mario with a TE. Teams are not worried about SM despite what you hear. They have eyes.

LikeMike
08-21-2011, 08:15 PM
I´m 100% sure that Mario will be fine... I`m just not sure if he will be great at LB.Barwin and Reed have more of a LB body - Mario has all the athleticism in the world but most of the time he doesn`t seem to realize it. Right now he is thinking too much and that`s what`s holding him back. After week 4 we should have a better understanding of what Mario can do at OLB. But there is a good possibility, that he just is a better 4-3 DE than a 3-4 OLB.

The Pencil Neck
08-21-2011, 08:18 PM
I want to see the bull rush I keep hearing about in practice reports.

Oh, he drove some guys back into Brees' face. IIRC, on the long bomb from Daniels to Morgan, Mario had driven his guy back pretty convincingly and was very close to disrupting that play. Too bad he didn't. :(

So I think he's shown it a couple of times.

But, despite the reports and assurances, it seems to me like he is taking more time to read and react than someone like Reed is. He's being more careful and so he's not just blowing guys up like he should be.

gafftop
08-21-2011, 08:24 PM
Oh, he drove some guys back into Brees' face. IIRC, on the long bomb from Daniels to Morgan, Mario had driven his guy back pretty convincingly and was very close to disrupting that play. Too bad he didn't. :(

So I think he's shown it a couple of times.

But, despite the reports and assurances, it seems to me like he is taking more time to read and react than someone like Reed is. He's being more careful and so he's not just blowing guys up like he should be.

Say what? Go back and look at the long TD play. The tight end came in motion and "manhandled" Mario and pushed him out of the way by himself.

PapaL
08-21-2011, 08:25 PM
$14M decoy? Ouch. Getting double teamed? AJ gets double and tripled teamed every snap yet he still makes plays. I like Mario but he always seems to be the guy that ALMOST gets the sack. Almost got an INT. We need our $14M defensive player MAKING those sacks AND INT.

My 2 cents...

Mr teX
08-21-2011, 08:33 PM
2s making plays against 2s........

1s not making plays against 1s......



Do u even watch the games? im asking seriously b/c some of the crap you're spewing in here tells me that u dont. I mean really, you're bagging on this dude b/c he didn't intercept a ball while a 300 lber was trying to roll into his knee? Really? It wasnt enough for u that the guy blew up the play? Ridiculous.

People have been doubting this dude since he came into the league and he's proven them wrong at every turn. How people can still continue to do so is beyond me. Stop getting caught up in aethestics. he's not a super quick twitch guy ala dwight freeney & demarcus ware. he never will be. But for a 6-6 290 lb guy, he's still plenty quick to play olb in a 3-4 scheme. If u don't take my
word for it, go ask wade phillips. Just give him AND THE TEAM time to gel and adjust jeez....:vincepalm:

Texan_Bill
08-21-2011, 08:33 PM
I'm just saying..... Brooks Reed, Connor Barwin, & Jesse Nading seem to be handling the position change........ better.

So are JJWatt, Antonio Smith, & Tim Jamison...

I'm just saying.

A Playmaker would have caught that ball even though he had a fat man rolling up on his knees..

TK.... Thats kinda BS!!! Did you not see AJ let a pass hit him in the chest? Mario was trying to make a pick with someone cutting his legs, man! He'll be fine!

IBleedTexans
08-21-2011, 08:33 PM
$14M decoy? Ouch. Getting double teamed? AJ gets double and tripled teamed every snap yet he still makes plays. I like Mario but he always seems to be the guy that ALMOST gets the sack. Almost got an INT. We need our $14M defensive player MAKING those sacks AND INT.

My 2 cents...

Omg dude did you not read any of the post before yours? Andre has been playing wr his whole career , MW is playing a whole new position . Tell me if you would like me to explain this to you in better detail . I could try by typing it slower or maybe even call you and saying it slowly.

Mr teX
08-21-2011, 08:43 PM
TK.... Thats kinda BS!!! Did you not see AJ let a pass hit him in the chest? Mario was trying to make a pick with someone cutting his legs, man! He'll be fine!

Exactly TB, he pretty much lost all credibility with me when he made that statement...i mean Guys who play db there whole live cant even catch balls that come right at them most times with noone bearing down on them, but he expects a defensive lineman transitioning to a new position in only his second PRESEASON game to come down with that?

DocBar
08-21-2011, 08:46 PM
Omg dude did you not read any of the post before yours? Andre has been playing wr his whole career , MW is playing a whole new position . Tell me if you would like me to explain this to you in better detail . I could try by typing it slower or maybe even call you and saying it slowly.Wow...pretty harsh. MW hasn't been the disruptive force a lot of us fans expected him to be even when he was playing DE. He played great in spurts, but never seemed to bring it every single down. He rarely took over games by himself. That was at a position that he played his whole career. What makes you think he's going to be any different at a new position, at which he's not physically suited to?

drunkcookie
08-21-2011, 08:50 PM
I'm sorry, I just can't get on the freak-out train after just under three quarters of play... Mario hasn't even played a full game's worth of olb, so I'm going to keep my hand away from the panic button... I mean is he supposed to average a sack every three qts? That's almost 20 sacks a season...

Does he look great? No! But he looked better yesterday than monday from what I can tell, so maybe he is improving...

ObsiWan
08-21-2011, 08:53 PM
2s making plays against 2s........

1s not making plays against 1s......
Maybe their 2's are equivalent to our 3's

anyway, this whole discussion is fruitless. This is Wade's masterplan.
When I hear Wade say it's not working, then I'll believe it.

I already said I'd have left Mario at DE and found a speed rusher to play OLB - maybe traded up to get Von Miller or whoever was rated right below him (yeah, I know that would have been pricey)... but that's just me.

Rey
08-21-2011, 08:55 PM
There are lots of things he could do better. I don't think he looks godawful... I just don't think he has done anything to warrant a "Mario IS improving at his new position" thread.


Ω

The reason I ask the question what situations could he have done better in is because if you can pinpoint those instances then you should be able to see where he had improved at since last week.

No one quantified how much he improved. Ive just seen comments that he played better this past week.

We got a longer look at him this past week.

When Mario came into the league (and really it still happens) he often times didn't show up on the stat sheet. Often times he looked uncomfortable and out of place.

You also keep comparing him to the other de's that are making the transition, but the other guys aren't learning how to manage that height and weight. Mario made a comment that he feels 6'8" and that this is extremely foreign to him. Plus the other guys are playing two's and threes and what exactly is barwin doing against the ones?

prostock101
08-21-2011, 09:00 PM
I was watching the Cowgirls this evening and Ware in particular. I did not see anything he did that Mario could not do as well eventually.

He's had his hand on the ground his entire career so, given time, I think he can be productive. That being said, I thought it interesting that Tillman intimated last night that returning to DE was a possibility? Is that Plan B?

Mr teX
08-21-2011, 09:09 PM
[QUOTE=prostock101;1757199]I was watching the Cowgirls this evening and Ware in particular. I did not see anything he did that Mario could not do as well eventually.

He's had his hand on the ground his entire career so, given time, I think he can be productive. That being said, I thought it interesting that Tillman intimated last night that returning to DE was a possibility? Is that Plan B?[/

" to a man," Tillman is terrible at color analysis.

Lucky
08-21-2011, 09:10 PM
Anybody notice that on the long TD pass in the first half against the Texans the Saints neutralized Super Mario with a TE.
Anybody notice that Mario was the only Texan defender close to the QB on the play? Very similar to the previous 5 seasons.
Oh, he drove some guys back into Brees' face. IIRC, on the long bomb from Daniels to Morgan, Mario had driven his guy back pretty convincingly and was very close to disrupting that play. Too bad he didn't. :(

OK, TPN saw it.
Say what? Go back and look at the long TD play. The tight end came in motion and "manhandled" Mario and pushed him out of the way by himself.
But we're not mentioning the other guys, because that's not part of the agenda.
The Texans have won both of their games that they have played. Yet we're complaining about ?
JB, I'm still complaining about Kubiak not even watching the defensive drills or positional work during the training camp practices I attended.

Does it really matter? Would he have any advice to give if he had been watching? No. But, it still gets under my skin.

gafftop
08-21-2011, 09:19 PM
Anybody notice that Mario was the only Texan defender close to the QB on the play? Very similar to the previous 5 seasons.

OK, TPN saw it.

But we're not mentioning the other guys, because that's not part of the agenda.

JB, I'm still complaining about Kubiak not even watching the defensive drills or positional work during the training camp practices I attended.

Does it really matter? Would he have any advice to give if he had been watching? No. But, it still gets under my skin.

They had 5 players blocking the other 3. the point is Mario was handled easily by TE and was NOT close to getting Brees.

Wolf
08-21-2011, 09:22 PM
here is the play
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj5STDmitQo

not sure if Mario was going to go to the inside but saw the FB coming that direction and so he tried to go the outside and the TE just rode him out

Lucky
08-21-2011, 09:25 PM
here is the play
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj5STDmitQo
Not to turn this into a Kareem Jackson thread, but who was he supposed to be covering on the play?

Wolf
08-21-2011, 09:27 PM
Not to turn this into a Kareem Jackson thread, but who was he supposed to be covering on the play?

kinda reminded me of arena football league just let the WR get a running start and go.

badboy
08-21-2011, 09:29 PM
No, that will go unmentioned because it doesn't support their position. Mario would have been dominated by Jordan Black, too.

So you think Mario a seasoned vet playing new position at OLB should not have a more severe critique than a rookie Reed also playing new postion at OLB? I think Reed against #2s is fair comparison to Mario against 1s.

gafftop
08-21-2011, 09:32 PM
Bottom line is i think Wade will make the right decision on Mario in reference to how to utilize him eventually this year.

I am not sure the FO will make the right decision on what to do with him in the long run.

What I really think is Mario will be hurt just a little and this will be the reason he is not performing and the reason he cannot be traded and we end up with the compensation pick and of course cap space.

Again i think the Texans still need some players THIS year and Mario is our only asset that may make any sense or significant impact in this regard.

My opinion only.

IBleedTexans
08-21-2011, 10:26 PM
Wow...pretty harsh. MW hasn't been the disruptive force a lot of us fans expected him to be even when he was playing DE. He played great in spurts, but never seemed to bring it every single down. He rarely took over games by himself. That was at a position that he played his whole career. What makes you think he's going to be any different at a new position, at which he's not physically suited to?

That's the thing , I'm not sure of he will become the beast that he's expected to . Im just not ready to judge him on how well he's going to be off of two preseason games. MW is looking better after 2 Preseason games then he did in training camp when I went .That alone is telling me he's trying to improve , and with that little determination I'm willing to hold judgement for at least game 3 of the regular season. I'm just tired of people going Off of 2 games where wade hasn't shown us his exotic packages . Remember how close MW always to the play , imagine how well the defense will look with some better coverage. ........ O wait JJo still hasn't played a down .


I'm just saying.

thunderkyss
08-21-2011, 10:27 PM
Do u even watch the games? im asking seriously b/c some of the crap you're spewing in here tells me that u dont. I mean really, you're bagging on this dude b/c he didn't intercept a ball while a 300 lber was trying to roll into his knee? Really? It wasnt enough for u that the guy blew up the play? Ridiculous.

People have been doubting this dude since he came into the league and he's proven them wrong at every turn. How people can still continue to do so is beyond me. Stop getting caught up in aethestics. he's not a super quick twitch guy ala dwight freeney & demarcus ware. he never will be. But for a 6-6 290 lb guy, he's still plenty quick to play olb in a 3-4 scheme. If u don't take my
word for it, go ask wade phillips. Just give him AND THE TEAM time to gel and adjust jeez....:vincepalm:

I'm generally one of his biggest supporters.

I may be using a little hyperbole here, but the main point is that this thread is bull.

If Mario is going to get it done as a LB, then he's going to get it done. All we have to do is sit back & watch.

There is nothing in these two preseason games to suggest that he is getting better as an OLB.

& no, he didn't blow that play up, it was blown up at the LOS.

thunderkyss
08-21-2011, 10:29 PM
Maybe their 2's are equivalent to our 3's

anyway, this whole discussion is fruitless. This is Wade's masterplan.
When I hear Wade say it's not working, then I'll believe it.

I already said I'd have left Mario at DE and found a speed rusher to play OLB - maybe traded up to get Von Miller or whoever was rated right below him (yeah, I know that would have been pricey)... but that's just me.

I'm not saying that it's not working, or that it won't work. Just don't see anything yet to get excited about.

& Mario the pass rushing probowler should be better than most 1s.....

That's what we are expecting from the #1 overall $14M man.

thunderkyss
08-21-2011, 10:31 PM
You also keep comparing him to the other de's that are making the transition, but the other guys aren't learning how to manage that height and weight. Mario made a comment that he feels 6'8" and that this is extremely foreign to him. Plus the other guys are playing two's and threes and what exactly is barwin doing against the ones?

I think that's the point.

gafftop
08-21-2011, 10:34 PM
Just watched Mario in the 3 plays after the long TD when he got neutralized.
I saw a ray of hope. He looked different on those three plays. Did anyone else notice this? Did anybody notice if Wade or one of the coaches got on him after the long TD because Mario look motivated on the next series. Always been Mario's MO but maybe these coaches can get through to him especially since this is his contract year.

BullNation4Life
08-21-2011, 10:44 PM
Can you really say he's selflessly bought into this when all reports indicate he pitched a fit about being a 3-4 DE?

Never pitched a fit, stated he had concerns about the move becasue he never played in that system...

Antonio Smith pitched the fit, stating that the 3-4 defense was the reason he left Arizona and that he was too small to play DE in a 3-4....

dem da facts....

BullNation4Life
08-21-2011, 10:45 PM
I think most people on here are more concerned about the team as a whole winning than they are about MW's play at OLB. If his play at OLB is lacking, then there's legitimate reasons to question the move.

Kubiak and DAVID CARR comes to mind in this case. Would it have been more of a distraction having a disgruntled MW at DE maybe demanding a trade? I'm not saying he would do that, but the possibility exists. Maybe WP figured he could give it a shot and see how it works out. Given time, the move very well could work out, but do the Texans coaching staff have the luxury of time? I don't think so.

fixed it...

GP
08-21-2011, 11:06 PM
I'm generally one of his biggest supporters.

I may be using a little hyperbole here, but the main point is that this thread is bull.

If Mario is going to get it done as a LB, then he's going to get it done. All we have to do is sit back & watch.

There is nothing in these two preseason games to suggest that he is getting better as an OLB.

& no, he didn't blow that play up, it was blown up at the LOS.

Even Kubiak is poo-poo'ing Mario's performance... (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/26796/kubiak-on-williams-reed-and-tate).

Kubiak on Williams, Reed and Tate
August, 21, 2011
AUG 21
7:11 PM ET

By Paul Kuharsky

Three notable comments from Gary Kubiak on three Texans coming out of the team’s second preseason game, a win over New Orleans Saturday night.

Kubiak on Mario Williams: “If you go back and look at the game of course he doesn’t have two or three sacks so that makes it easy to say that he wasn’t very good but if you watch he was very disruptive in the pocket. They tried to keep a tight end on him a couple of times and he did a good job of just throwing him back in to (Drew) Brees’ hip, so to speak and pushing the pocket and he played better in space and just assignment-wise, everything, he’s doing better. Reggie (Herring) and Wade (Phillips) are trying to get him settled down on everything he’s doing. It was just a big step forward. I think he’s really taking to what they’re trying to teach him, it is something totally different but you see him get better each day.”

Kubiak on rookie outside linebacker Brooks Reed: “No doubt, probably the one player right now showing the most vast improvement from day-to-day, practice-to-practice and game-to-game. I’ve talked about how he’s changing position, but just watching that when you coach this guy the next day it’s fixed so it’s really impressive right now. He was very impressive in the football game and continues to not only be defensively but also very impressive for Joe (Marciano) I think he has the chance to be an excellent special teams player. He was a big bright spot on the defensive side of the ball last night and he played very well.”

Kubiak on second-year running back Ben Tate: “You got to be able to protect the quarterback and he got his chances and stepped up and knew what he was doing. He was physical at the point so I was very encouraged by his whole game; not just his running, obviously that was good but he did handle himself well in protection too.”

Thanks to the Texans public relations staff for sending out the transcript.

In other words, a TE handled Mario Williams...but yet Mario won the battle because he pushed the TE back into Brees. Pfffttt....OK.

Everybody's doing the Spin Dance on Mario. He'll have a game where his man falls down and he gets a sack, and everyone will say "THAT is the Mario we know and love! Hooray! Hooray! Told you so!"

When your HC has to come out and say "Just because he didn't get a sack doesn't mean he's not good" or "He pushed his man back" or "He's getting better each day, he's taking to what they are teaching him" smells of rationalizing.

He doesn't have to be All-World right now, but it would be nice if he wasn't poo-poo'd either. I think every player in the Texans front 7, except Mario and Barwin, have touched or sacked a QB thus far (hyperbole, but go ahead and research it you stat junkies! LOL).

To me, I just don't think Mario is a thinker out there. He's not even a reactor, either. He's going to use his athleticism and try to out-athleticize his man, instead of making his own luck out there like others do. When Antonio Smith was interviewed on the sideline, he broke down every second of that play where he caused Brees to fumble...he set up his blocker, set the dude up to fail, and abused his man mentally and then physically assaulted Brees.

I don't remember seeing Mario take better angles, or figure out a way to out-think his blocker. It's like he uses his athleticism and often benefits from a blocker's blown assignment or some other circumstance (blockers double-teaming the wrong Texans defender, leaving Mario wide open for the sack).

Watch when Mario makes his first play in WP's 3-4 defense...it's going to be like when the USA Women's Soccer Team scored a game-winner off a Wambach header. People will be crying and hugging strangers in the street outside the sports bar. LOL.

mussop
08-21-2011, 11:48 PM
Even Kubiak is poo-poo'ing Mario's performance... (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/26796/kubiak-on-williams-reed-and-tate).



In other words, a TE handled Mario Williams...but yet Mario won the battle because he pushed the TE back into Brees. Pfffttt....OK.

Everybody's doing the Spin Dance on Mario. He'll have a game where his man falls down and he gets a sack, and everyone will say "THAT is the Mario we know and love! Hooray! Hooray! Told you so!"

When your HC has to come out and say "Just because he didn't get a sack doesn't mean he's not good" or "He pushed his man back" or "He's getting better each day, he's taking to what they are teaching him" smells of rationalizing.

He doesn't have to be All-World right now, but it would be nice if he wasn't poo-poo'd either. I think every player in the Texans front 7, except Mario and Barwin, have touched or sacked a QB thus far (hyperbole, but go ahead and research it you stat junkies! LOL).

To me, I just don't think Mario is a thinker out there. He's not even a reactor, either. He's going to use his athleticism and try to out-athleticize his man, instead of making his own luck out there like others do. When Antonio Smith was interviewed on the sideline, he broke down every second of that play where he caused Brees to fumble...he set up his blocker, set the dude up to fail, and abused his man mentally and then physically assaulted Brees.

I don't remember seeing Mario take better angles, or figure out a way to out-think his blocker. It's like he uses his athleticism and often benefits from a blocker's blown assignment or some other circumstance (blockers double-teaming the wrong Texans defender, leaving Mario wide open for the sack).

Watch when Mario makes his first play in WP's 3-4 defense...it's going to be like when the USA Women's Soccer Team scored a game-winner off a Wambach header. People will be crying and hugging strangers in the street outside the sports bar. LOL.

Im starting to feel this way more everyday. I said this before and Ill say it again. If Mario isn't cutting it at OLB, at what point does the brass say, our jobs are on the line, we need the best players at each position that give us the best chance at winning? What if Reed keeps improving to the point that its obvious that he needs to be on the field and Mario is still not getting it? Do you make Mario move back to DE against his wishes? I think its more than obvious Mario was unhappy with the idea of playing DE in a 3/4. Do you really want him playing unhappy at a position he doesn't want to play at?

Mario just isn't explosive enough to play OLB. He's never been a speed guy off the edge and he never will. Unfortunately he thinks he is. If the coaches aren't going to man up and tell him he needs to move back to DE for the better of the team then at least move him to ILB and let Cushing move outside. At least in there his size and athletic ability could make a difference.

I just hope this doesn't turn into another you know who situation. Draw a line and say this is as far as we go with this. He is playing a position we cant afford to have average play from. We need someone who will make a difference there.

Barwin is another one. Where is the production we are supposed to be seeing from him? At this point I would at least give Reed a shot with the first teamers to see if he can take the opportunity and run with it. But according to Kubiak even though Reed's getting better by the day all he has to say is, "I think he has the chance to be an excellent special teams player".

Rey
08-21-2011, 11:52 PM
I think that's the point.

That other guys have felt more comfortable faster?

That's not what you said.

You said he hasn't shown any improvement. I disagree with that. He looked more comfortable to me defending the run. Pass rush wise he looks the same as he always has.

GP
08-22-2011, 01:47 AM
...But according to Kubiak even though Reed's getting better by the day all he has to say is, "I think he has the chance to be an excellent special teams player".

I saw that, as well.

This is what I am talking about when I say that Bob McNair has his hands way more into the operations of the football side than people claim. Supposedly, it was Rick and Gary (or just Rick...or just Gary, depending on who is posting on this topic) who screwed up and hired Richard Smith and later on Frank Bush for the d-coord position. My contention with that speculation is that David Carr and Dunta Robinson both stayed here one year longer than they should have...so whose fault is that--Gary or Rick?

Neither. It was Bob's call. Kubiak read the Kool Aid "red" writing on the wall when he interviewed for the HC job here, and wisely so! So he sticks with Mr. Mittens for the obligatory 1-year date that Bob arranged for both of them, but the wedding was cancelled and Kubiak set out to find the guy at QB that HE wanted for the job. Makes a wise choice.

Then, for some damn reason, someone somewhere (Bob, again) decides to franchise tag Dunta Robinson after the guy is coming off a major injury. Things got ugly, quick. But still, someone somewhere (Bob, obviously) decided that he wasn't going to let go of DR even if DR didn't want to be here.

If Bob wants it, he gets it--For the ultimate example, look at how he retained Kubiak as HC and brought in Wade Phillips. Granted, the two best decisions the owner has made, seemingly to this point, has been the GK and WP hirings. But I think he's made other moves that set us back. I happen to feel that the owner--of any team--is going to ultimately make the tough calls, not the HC and GM.

Which brings me to this issue with Mario Williams. Bob is 0-for-2 with trying to keep guys on the Texans whom he thinks are "Franchise Guys," so to speak. For me, I just have to begin to believe that Bob gets a soft spot for certain guys, and that's that...the guy stays no matter what.

I don't see Mario getting any positive mileage out of being an OLB in this 3-4 system. As someone else has stated here, his best bet is to make his hay through the middle of the line...finding gaps to exploit and taking a straight shot at the QB, right up the nostrils of the O-Line.

But for some reason, I believe that he will be used as a DE that's not really a DE...and not really an OLB either. He's some sort of hybrid, I'm Mario And I Have a Special Role type of position out there. I dunno. Color me unimpressed. And as for the talk that he's a decoy, or he's being used to contain and will get his chances at some point? That's what they said about Reggie Bush...and his contract was too hot to handle for the Saints. They cut bait and ran from it. We won't do the same, IMO.

Good news? It seems we have plenty of LB talent out there to coddle this experiment the whole season if that's the case.

I still say there's going to be some flittering hearts and swooning going on when Mario has a 2-sack game somewhere. It's going to be a party like 1999 up in here. ;)

The Pencil Neck
08-22-2011, 01:54 AM
Say what? Go back and look at the long TD play. The tight end came in motion and "manhandled" Mario and pushed him out of the way by himself.

You're right. I took a look at another couple of plays from that corner that I thought I saw him bullrush but couldn't find it.

I'm pretty sure I saw it happen, though.

The Pencil Neck
08-22-2011, 01:59 AM
Not to turn this into a Kareem Jackson thread, but who was he supposed to be covering on the play?

Kubiak said they were supposed to be playing quarters and someone (like maybe KJ) thought they were playing halves. If they had been playing halves, then Manning would have had the deep zone on that side but if they were playing quarters, then KJ should have been responsible for him, I think (although the WR was running where the seam would have been between the two zones so it's iffy whether both guys should have picked him up.)

Clamp
08-22-2011, 02:13 AM
Ive heard Antonio Smith say that no one has been able to stop Mario in practice when he turns it on and get it right. Id be curious to just hear who the Olinemen would rather go against for a whole game, bc Reed and Mario have complete different plans of attack when it comes to rushing.

DocBar
08-22-2011, 05:23 AM
That's the thing , I'm not sure of he will become the beast that he's expected to . Im just not ready to judge him on how well he's going to be off of two preseason games. MW is looking better after 2 Preseason games then he did in training camp when I went .That alone is telling me he's trying to improve , and with that little determination I'm willing to hold judgement for at least game 3 of the regular season. I'm just tired of people going Off of 2 games where wade hasn't shown us his exotic packages . Remember how close MW always to the play , imagine how well the defense will look with some better coverage. ........ O wait JJo still hasn't played a down .


I'm just saying.What I'm saying is that MW was only a beast sometimes at his natural position. Kinda like a werewolf or....never mind...family friendly and all. Anywho, if the man is only beast at his natural position, why should anyone expect him to be a beast playing an unnatural position? It would be a different story if he making 1/5 his current salary and the Texans had more than one "winning" season to brag about, but it isn't. Besides, McNair has pretty much said playoff or bust for Kubiak and Co. They need W's right now, so it would be prudent to put the best players on the field. MW doesn't seem to be one of our best players in this new scheme.

PapaL
08-22-2011, 05:47 AM
Omg dude did you not read any of the post before yours? Andre has been playing wr his whole career , MW is playing a whole new position . Tell me if you would like me to explain this to you in better detail . I could try by typing it slower or maybe even call you and saying it slowly.

Maybe if you didn't have his jock hanging off your chin I would better understand. Superstars make plays. Period. He's going from DE to OLB not to CB! Every year it's the same thing. Oh he's hurt, oh he almost got that sack. This transition from DE to OLB has been made before. This isn't anything unheard of. Mario is good, not $14M great. We need great.

PapaL
08-22-2011, 05:51 AM
Ive heard Antonio Smith say that no one has been able to stop Mario in practice when he turns it on and get it right. Id be curious to just hear who the Olinemen would rather go against for a whole game, bc Reed and Mario have complete different plans of attack when it comes to rushing.

Me personally, I'm tired of hearing "when he turns it on". He's PAID to be on. Deliver! That's my gripe. There is ZERO doubt about what he can do when he wants to. Question is, why doesn't he want to?

gafftop
08-22-2011, 06:46 AM
Me personally, I'm tired of hearing "when he turns it on". He's PAID to be on. Deliver! That's my gripe. There is ZERO doubt about what he can do when he wants to. Question is, why doesn't he want to?

Mario does not have that all consuming desire to win. Football is not his life. No one so far has found the key to motivate him. He is a gentle giant. He "wants" to but it is not in his heart. I assume his team mates are trying to motivate him, I know the coaches have tried but so far it has not been successsful. This is what is so frustrating about Mario. Maybe this coaching staff can get more out of him.

Rey
08-22-2011, 06:51 AM
I think it's kind of funny that People are saying reed should take marios snaps or whatever.

He's played more snaps so he's had more of an opportunity to show himself. Last week he played well but didn't do anything spectacular. Against the saints he was unblocked on a play and matched up against dudes that likely won't play past the fourth pre season game and now he is the second coming.

Mario has never been a jump off the screen flash player on a down to down basis, but the guy makes plays. He's been this teams most consistent d lineman since he's gotten here and no one has gotten to the qb more.

It's wades job to figure out how to keep him successful.

beerlover
08-22-2011, 07:50 AM
Anyone know what Mario Williams scored in the wonderlic? remember that first season the coaches tried something similar & moved him all around trying to find more production, how did that work out? Then they planted him as RDE & Mario had his most productive season. Beer gut says this is a mistake to move Mario again, they just keep making excuses. By the way Jason Allen scored 11.

fiasco west
08-22-2011, 08:00 AM
Mario does not have that all consuming desire to win. Football is not his life. No one so far has found the key to motivate him. He is a gentle giant. He "wants" to but it is not in his heart. I assume his team mates are trying to motivate him, I know the coaches have tried but so far it has not been successsful. This is what is so frustrating about Mario. Maybe this coaching staff can get more out of him.

Seems a lot of people forget that Mario plays through injuries and still accomplishes all that he does...

DocBar
08-22-2011, 08:38 AM
Seems a lot of people forget that Mario plays through injuries and still accomplishes all that he does...

I don't think this is about bashing MW as it is wanting to see this team succeed. MW fought thru injuries and accomplished things as a de. Even then he wasn't the force he is capable of being. If MW is the best player we have at that position, play him. If we have better options, play them. At $14 mil MW makes way too much to be a bench warmer

HJam72
08-22-2011, 09:15 AM
I do agree that he needs to be the best player at his position by game 1 of the regular season or whoever is still better should start. If he needs practice to get better, that's what practice is for.

GP
08-22-2011, 09:33 AM
Ive heard Antonio Smith say that no one has been able to stop Mario in practice when he turns it on and get it right. Id be curious to just hear who the Olinemen would rather go against for a whole game, bc Reed and Mario have complete different plans of attack when it comes to rushing.

Agreed.

Mario's plan of attack seems to be to engage the blocker and run in place, or go so wide that he's out of the play/out of the picture. Reed gets to the QB.

What I'm saying is that MW was only a beast sometimes at his natural position. Kinda like a werewolf or....never mind...family friendly and all. Anywho, if the man is only beast at his natural position, why should anyone expect him to be a beast playing an unnatural position? It would be a different story if he making 1/5 his current salary and the Texans had more than one "winning" season to brag about, but it isn't. Besides, McNair has pretty much said playoff or bust for Kubiak and Co. They need W's right now, so it would be prudent to put the best players on the field. MW doesn't seem to be one of our best players in this new scheme.

Agreed here, as well. But with Bob McNair, it's my opinion that you don't always have to be "great" at what you do...especially if there's some sort of sentimental or perception value that Bob places upon you. I'm all for loyalty, but the loyalty-to-a-fault is frustrating as a fan of a team.

Maybe if you didn't have his jock hanging off your chin I would better understand. Superstars make plays. Period. He's going from DE to OLB not to CB! Every year it's the same thing. Oh he's hurt, oh he almost got that sack. This transition from DE to OLB has been made before. This isn't anything unheard of. Mario is good, not $14M great. We need great.

Yeah, Mario seems to be the only guy who fights through injuries. He's a gamer. Good vs. Great is the key issue, for me, which you are pointing out.

Me personally, I'm tired of hearing "when he turns it on". He's PAID to be on. Deliver! That's my gripe. There is ZERO doubt about what he can do when he wants to. Question is, why doesn't he want to?

I just think there's a mental or emotional disconnect there. If he didn't have the raw athleticism he has, he'd be Amobi Okoye's twin brother.

Mario does not have that all consuming desire to win. Football is not his life. No one so far has found the key to motivate him. He is a gentle giant. He "wants" to but it is not in his heart. I assume his team mates are trying to motivate him, I know the coaches have tried but so far it has not been successsful. This is what is so frustrating about Mario. Maybe this coaching staff can get more out of him.

Agreed.

There should be no sacred players who are above scrutiny here. Especially the guy who is said to be the best d-lineman we've had. I think those days are vanishing.

dinkatoid
08-22-2011, 09:57 AM
Then I would have Cushing on one of the OLB, I think one of Cushing's true gifts is hunting down the QB.


Wade has said he likes to blitz up the middle a lot, and Cushing will be bringing the pressure a fair amount. I think this is a pretty solid idea in our favor, having Cushing trying to get past a guard rather than a tackle. Wade even mentioned Bradie James got 8 sacks from this position (in 08 in case you were wondering).

HOU-TEX
08-22-2011, 10:12 AM
I'm more concerned about Cushing at this point of the pre-season. I understand it was his 1st game back, but dadgum. If he wasn't getting blocked out of the play he was riding the RB for a 5-6 yard gain. I saw way too many 3rd and shorts due to runs up the middle.

cuppacoffee
08-22-2011, 11:05 AM
Wow...pretty harsh. MW hasn't been the disruptive force a lot of us fans expected him to be even when he was playing DE. He played great in spurts, but never seemed to bring it every single down. He rarely took over games by himself. That was at a position that he played his whole career. What makes you think he's going to be any different at a new position, at which he's not physically suited to?


Perzactly right.

Repped.


:coffee:

cuppacoffee
08-22-2011, 11:10 AM
I'm more concerned about Cushing at this point of the pre-season. I understand it was his 1st game back, but dadgum. If he wasn't getting blocked out of the play he was riding the RB for a 5-6 yard gain. I saw way too many 3rd and shorts due to runs up the middle.


His tank is empty, outta juice.


:coffee:

cuppacoffee
08-22-2011, 11:23 AM
I don't think this is about bashing MW as it is wanting to see this team succeed. MW fought thru injuries and accomplished things as a de. Even then he wasn't the force he is capable of being. If MW is the best player we have at that position, play him. If we have better options, play them. At $14 mil MW makes way too much to be a bench warmer


"Re-emergence of the 3-4
More and more teams are switching from 4-3 fronts to 3-4 alignments since the versatility of the outside linebacker allows defenses to disguise pressure effectively. In 2007, about 30 percent of the NFL employed a 3-4 scheme; that number swelled to almost 50 percent last season.
Because a 250-pound outside linebacker is much more capable of covering a tight end or fitting into a zone-blitz scheme than a 280-pound defensive end (while still providing equal pass-rushing abilities), coaches are on high alert for these unique talents. There's a strong market for "tweeners," players who are caught in the crossroads between the outside linebacker and defensive end roles.
Drafting these undersized collegiate defensive ends and converting them to bulky, yet speedy, outside linebackers has become common practice. Tamba Hali and LaMarr Woodley are prime examples of this; their potent combinations of strength and speed give their defensive coordinators endless possibilities. McShay projects a few such picks in this year's first round, notably UNC's Robert Quinn and Arizona's Brooks Reed."


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/news/story?id=6410802


Maybe MW will make the transition.... but he doesn't fit the "profile".

Sounds like Wade picked a likely replacement in case the experiment doesn't pan out.

I just hope he doesn't wait too long to pull the plug if it isn't working.


:coffee:

beerlover
08-22-2011, 11:44 AM
"Re-emergence of the 3-4
More and more teams are switching from 4-3 fronts to 3-4 alignments since the versatility of the outside linebacker allows defenses to disguise pressure effectively. In 2007, about 30 percent of the NFL employed a 3-4 scheme; that number swelled to almost 50 percent last season.
Because a 250-pound outside linebacker is much more capable of covering a tight end or fitting into a zone-blitz scheme than a 280-pound defensive end (while still providing equal pass-rushing abilities), coaches are on high alert for these unique talents. There's a strong market for "tweeners," players who are caught in the crossroads between the outside linebacker and defensive end roles.
Drafting these undersized collegiate defensive ends and converting them to bulky, yet speedy, outside linebackers has become common practice. Tamba Hali and LaMarr Woodley are prime examples of this; their potent combinations of strength and speed give their defensive coordinators endless possibilities. McShay projects a few such picks in this year's first round, notably UNC's Robert Quinn and Arizona's Brooks Reed."


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/news/story?id=6410802


Maybe MW will make the transition.... but he doesn't fit the "profile".

Sounds like Wade picked a likely replacement in case the experiment doesn't pan out.

I just hope he doesn't wait too long to pull the plug if it isn't working.


:coffee:

History repeats itself.

Kubiak told McNair he could transform David Carr into starting caliber NFL QB

Wade probably said he would move Mario to OLB & become next DeMarcus Ware.

:wesmantexanfan:

badboy
08-22-2011, 11:55 AM
History repeats itself.

Kubiak told McNair he could transform David Carr into starting caliber NFL QB

Wade probably said he would move Mario to OLB & become next DeMarcus Ware.

:wesmantexanfan:Remember what came next? A huge deposit to Carr's checking account. Mario is smacking his lips.

MightyTExan
08-22-2011, 12:20 PM
418

prostock101
08-22-2011, 12:33 PM
"Mario's plan of attack seems to be to engage the blocker and run in place, or go so wide that he's out of the play/out of the picture. Reed gets to the QB."

The statement above is just so true. How many times have we seen Mario try to rush wide and get pushed out of the play? Is he just encapable of tryin' a spin move at some point and redirect inside at the QB? And Kubiak is constantly telling us that, while we may not have seen it, he watched the tape and Mario was AWESOME!!!!!

Well, maybe he didn't say awesome but apparently seeing Mario doing well involves watching game tape. Just don't expect to see it on your tv.

I do hope he gets it and starts playin' angry and not look like he's afraid of makin' a mistake cuz that's how he looks most of the time......

gary
08-22-2011, 01:18 PM
If he only had JJ Watt type of instincts he might be gold.

Ole Miss Texan
08-22-2011, 02:10 PM
If he only had JJ Watt type of instincts he might be gold.
I'm just looking forward to Wade mixing things up during the regular season.

I would really really really like to see Mario and Watt lined up at DE on occastion with Reed being WOLB and Barwin at SOLB.

Mr teX
08-22-2011, 03:11 PM
Why is everyone giving barwin a pass? At least Mario has shown up making a few plays in both the run & pass game & has shown improvement...... we can argue about how much improvement that is but he has shown improvement. Barwin on the other hand has done NOTHING in either of the 2 & in neither of the games. & honestly if there's 1 player that Reed's destined to take snaps from at the olb spot its Barwin. He also hasn't shown he can be force anywhere on a defense and he wouldn't be as big of a loss if we chose to lose him next year....unlike Mario. yet what is it that people come in making threads about?

Further proof that people here hold Mario up to an unrealistic & many times unfair standard. if he's not getting a sack every 3rd & long, he sucks.

mussop
08-22-2011, 04:25 PM
Why is everyone giving barwin a pass? At least Mario has shown up making a few plays in both the run & pass game & has shown improvement...... we can argue about how much improvement that is but he has shown improvement. Barwin on the other hand has done NOTHING in either of the 2 & in neither of the games. & honestly if there's 1 player that Reed's destined to take snaps from at the olb spot its Barwin. He also hasn't shown he can be force anywhere on a defense and he wouldn't be as big of a loss if we chose to lose him next year....unlike Mario. yet what is it that people come in making threads about?

Further proof that people here hold Mario up to an unrealistic & many times unfair standard. if he's not getting a sack every 3rd & long, he sucks.

Not everyone!

Barwin is another one. Where is the production we are supposed to be seeing from him? At this point I would at least give Reed a shot with the first teamers to see if he can take the opportunity and run with it. But according to Kubiak even though Reed's getting better by the day all he has to say is, "I think he has the chance to be an excellent special teams player".

thunderkyss
08-22-2011, 05:20 PM
If we are basically treating Mario like a DE anyway, why don't we let him put his hand down?

What's the big deal?

It's not like we're trying to hide the fact that he's going to be rushing the QB.

fiasco west
08-22-2011, 05:37 PM
Why is everyone giving barwin a pass? At least Mario has shown up making a few plays in both the run & pass game & has shown improvement...... we can argue about how much improvement that is but he has shown improvement. Barwin on the other hand has done NOTHING in either of the 2 & in neither of the games. & honestly if there's 1 player that Reed's destined to take snaps from at the olb spot its Barwin. He also hasn't shown he can be force anywhere on a defense and he wouldn't be as big of a loss if we chose to lose him next year....unlike Mario. yet what is it that people come in making threads about?

Further proof that people here hold Mario up to an unrealistic & many times unfair standard. if he's not getting a sack every 3rd & long, he sucks.

That's how I feel. If you look at any other teams fans opinion of Mario it is simply. "That man is a beast, I wish he were on our team." yet here it is "Meh, he doesn't go 100%" (even when he's physically not 100%) or "he should be doing much better."

Lurking the Jets board during the whole Nnamdi thread, there was a thread discussing if they could get Mario, every single one of them was drooling at the prospect.

I guess Mario did go #1 so people have these really high standards for him. But he's still a top DE in the league and we would be mistaken if we think he's replaceable IMO.

Can he play OLB? I don't know, we'll see. It's preseason so Wade could just be toying with him right now and seeing what he's capable of. I expect to see his hand on the ground a lot during the regular season.

Wade's an actual DC so he's not just going to put his best players in bad positions.

DocBar
08-22-2011, 05:52 PM
418Is that an angry person of Asian decent? That's the accent that popped into my head and read it with.

DocBar
08-22-2011, 05:57 PM
If he only had JJ Watt type of instincts he might be gold.If only he had a JJ Watt motor. MW is orders of magnitude more physically gifted, he just lacks the heart and try to go all out every single snap he's on the field. That's the one thing in this sport you can't coach, and I include speed in that equation. Either the desire to dominate is there or it isn't. That was a major flaw of HWWNBN. You can't half-ass it and be considered a "great" on talent alone in the NFL. You have to have a burning desire to be the absolute best and prove it emphatically every snap you;re on the field.

badboy
08-22-2011, 06:04 PM
If we are basically treating Mario like a DE anyway, why don't we let him put his hand down?

What's the big deal?

It's not like we're trying to hide the fact that he's going to be rushing the QB.There you go. I thought lining Smith, NT, Watt then Mario about 4-5 yards off Watt in any stance would allow Mario to blow over TEs or RBs.

DocBar
08-22-2011, 06:10 PM
"Re-emergence of the 3-4
More and more teams are switching from 4-3 fronts to 3-4 alignments since the versatility of the outside linebacker allows defenses to disguise pressure effectively. In 2007, about 30 percent of the NFL employed a 3-4 scheme; that number swelled to almost 50 percent last season.
Because a 250-pound outside linebacker is much more capable of covering a tight end or fitting into a zone-blitz scheme than a 280-pound defensive end (while still providing equal pass-rushing abilities), coaches are on high alert for these unique talents. There's a strong market for "tweeners," players who are caught in the crossroads between the outside linebacker and defensive end roles.
Drafting these undersized collegiate defensive ends and converting them to bulky, yet speedy, outside linebackers has become common practice. Tamba Hali and LaMarr Woodley are prime examples of this; their potent combinations of strength and speed give their defensive coordinators endless possibilities. McShay projects a few such picks in this year's first round, notably UNC's Robert Quinn and Arizona's Brooks Reed."


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/news/story?id=6410802


Maybe MW will make the transition.... but he doesn't fit the "profile".

Sounds like Wade picked a likely replacement in case the experiment doesn't pan out.

I just hope he doesn't wait too long to pull the plug if it isn't working.


:coffee:I need to do some research on this, but I bet this 3-4/4-3 cycle roughly coincides with 3-4/4-3 DC's becoming HC's and getting fired and becoming DC's again.. When they get fired, they use lessons learned from the HC experience and incorporate that as a DC. The same being true for 4-3 guys. One defense dominates for a couple of years and several DC's get promoted to HC and fail then go back to DC's. It takes a pretty special guy to be a HC and most DC's don't make the grade. Anywho, just a theory that popped into my head when I read your post.

badboy
08-22-2011, 06:10 PM
That's how I feel. If you look at any other teams fans opinion of Mario it is simply. "That man is a beast, I wish he were on our team." yet here it is "Meh, he doesn't go 100%" (even when he's physically not 100%) or "he should be doing much better."

Lurking the Jets board during the whole Nnamdi thread, there was a thread discussing if they could get Mario, every single one of them was drooling at the prospect.
I guess Mario did go #1 so people have these really high standards for him. But he's still a top DE in the league and we would be mistaken if we think he's replaceable IMO.

Can he play OLB? I don't know, we'll see. It's preseason so Wade could just be toying with him right now and seeing what he's capable of. I expect to see his hand on the ground a lot during the regular season.

Wade's an actual DC so he's not just going to put his best players in bad positions. If you have a $14million leased car sitting in your driveway you want everything to be as close to what the salesman told you the car would perform like.

If you are looking in someone else's driveway at their $14 million car, you drool and don't worry about nothing, especially the huge dollar amount the next lease will cost.

Next time you are lurking, tell the Jets to make an offer that we cannot refuse and see what they say then.

Lucky
08-22-2011, 06:11 PM
History repeats itself.

Kubiak told McNair he could transform David Carr into starting caliber NFL QB

Wade probably said he would move Mario to OLB & become next DeMarcus Ware.

:wesmantexanfan:
Thank's a crock. Carr was not even a starting caliber NFL QB. Mario is a Pro Bowl level defender. We were sold that Wade Phillips could turn the talent on this defense into a playoff caliber unit. He should be able to make that happen. Bill Belichick could win with this talent. Bill Cowher could win with this talent. Wade Phillips should be able to win with this talent.

Speaking of Carr, tonight might be his last action in a NFL uniform. Battling with another ex-Texan, Sage Rosenfels, for the Giants backup QB spot, Carr will be the ist QB off the bench tonight against the Bears. If he loses out to Sage, the Giants are not likely to keep him as the 3rd QB over Ryan Perrilloux. And if he gets cut from the Giants, Carr is likely to just call it a career after 9 years.

DocBar
08-22-2011, 06:14 PM
If you have a $14million leased car sitting in your driveway you want everything to be as close to what the salesman told you the car would perform like.

If you are looking in someone else's driveway at their $14 million car, you drool and don't worry about nothing, especially the huge dollar amount the next lease will cost.

Next time you are lurking, tell the Jets to make an offer that we cannot refuse and see what they say then.Amen, brother!!! You don't buy a Cadillac and settle for a Chevrolet.

Mr teX
08-22-2011, 06:24 PM
If we are basically treating Mario like a DE anyway, why don't we let him put his hand down?

What's the big deal?

It's not like we're trying to hide the fact that he's going to be rushing the QB.


B/c if our best pass rusher's hand goes down in the dirt 100%, we lose a little bit of the flexibilty & versatility that the 3-4 affords us. Teams already know mario is one of the best rushing the passer from a 3-point stance but if he can show that he can be as effective rushing the passer from a standing position & handle minor pass defense duties, it makes us that much more unpredictable & versatile when we rush the passer & decide to send blitzes.

Sure, he could drop back in coverage from a 3 point stance, but it'd be
exponentially harder to do.

Bill belichick has built NE into a juggernaut based on a few principles. One of those is versatility; specifically he utilizes the total scope of a few of his players' skills. Vraebel catching TDs in the red zone. Troy Brown playing defensive back. Doug Flutie / Tom Brady pooch punting & Drop kicking. Showing things like that throughout the season even once or twice matters & best believe teams scout things like that. Whats wrong with seeing if we can max out our versatility by trying mario out at olb?

DocBar
08-22-2011, 06:33 PM
B/c if our best pass rusher's hand goes down in the dirt 100%, we lose a little bit of the flexibilty & versatility that the 3-4 affords us. Teams already know mario is one of the best rushing the passer from a 3-point stance but if he can show that he can be as effective rushing the passer from a standing position & handle minor pass defense duties, it makes us that much more unpredictable & versatile when we rush the passer & decide to send blitzes.

Sure, he could drop back in coverage from a 3 point stance, but it'd be
exponentially harder to do.

Bill belichick has built NE into a juggernaut based on a few principles. One of those is versatility; specifically he utilizes the total scope of a few of his players' skills. Vraebel catching TDs in the red zone. Troy Brown playing defensive back. Doug Flutie / Tom Brady pooch punting & Drop kicking. Showing things like that throughout the season even once or twice matters & best believe teams scout things like that. Whats wrong with seeing if we can max out our versatility by trying mario out at olb?That's a very nice post, but MW is showing us that he is not a very good passrusher from a 2 point stance. WP pointed that out explicitly in January. To be honest, MW wasn't all that extraordinary out of a 3 point stance. He was good on a regular basis, but great only a game or two a season. All in all, MW is an above average 4-3 DE. He hasn't shown himself to be a consistent disruptive force. That may be because we haven't surrounded him with enough talent, but it hasn't been for a lack of effort or draft picks. If he couldn't do it as a 4-3 DE, his natural position that he is physically gifted for, I seriously doubt he will be able to do it as a 3-4 OLB that physically limits him.

drunkcookie
08-22-2011, 06:48 PM
Alright, just finished watching every down Mario played Saturday night, and though he wasn't the defensive player of the 1st half, he still didn't play bad enough to warrant all of this Mario-panic I'm seeing...

He did well in pass-coverage and decent against the runs in his area... I know we want Mario hitting the QB more than anything, but he's going to have to do more than just rush the QB and it seems he won't be too bad at that at OLB...

He still looks a little uncomfortable, and a little high out of the gate but guys, this was just his 2nd and 3rd quarters of game-play... He did improve from his first quarter of play Monday night against the jets and helped in collapsing the pocket a few times...

On the Daniels TD pass I was thinking "WTF Mario?" The first time I saw it, but then I went over it a few times..

#1 the TE blocking his was Thomas, one of the best blocking TEs in the NFL and

#2 he actually looked like he could have gotten by on the inside, but saw the FB peal back for what looked like was going to be a double-team but passed Mario and ran a route... The FB ran straight at Mario, and it looked like Mario decided his best chance would be trying outside...

I was more impressed with Thomas on that play than I was dissapointed in Mario...

He's still got a ways to go, but I just don't see how after only 2-3/4 quarters played against two different Os people are freaking out...

DocBar
08-22-2011, 07:00 PM
Alright, just finished watching every down Mario played Saturday night, and though he wasn't the defensive player of the 1st half, he still didn't play bad enough to warrant all of this Mario-panic I'm seeing...

He did well in pass-coverage and decent against the runs in his area... I know we want Mario hitting the QB more than anything, but he's going to have to do more than just rush the QB and it seems he won't be too bad at that at OLB...

He still looks a little uncomfortable, and a little high out of the gate but guys, this was just his 2nd and 3rd quarters of game-play... He did improve from his first quarter of play Monday night against the jets and helped in collapsing the pocket a few times...

On the Daniels TD pass I was thinking "WTF Mario?" The first time I saw it, but then I went over it a few times..

#1 the TE blocking his was Thomas, one of the best blocking TEs in the NFL and

#2 he actually looked like he could have gotten by on the inside, but saw the FB peal back for what looked like was going to be a double-team but passed Mario and ran a route... The FB ran straight at Mario, and it looked like Mario decided his best chance would be trying outside...

I was more impressed with Thomas on that play than I was dissapointed in Mario...

He's still got a ways to go, but I just don't see how after only 2-3/4 quarters played against two different Os people are freaking out... $14mil for a player that might, maybe, one day be an average OLB in a 3-4 isn't good. MW is a 6'6" 285 behemoth. He should toss every single TE in the league away from him. He battles elite LT's every down of every game. That's like a Sperm whale getting manhandled by a Humboldt's squid. It's against the laws of the universe for that to happen.
We have 2 weeks to field an NFL caliber team and a weakness at WOLB in a 3-4 for is a good sign by any standard. I'm sick to effing death of thinking of woulda, shoulda, coulda every damned January. We need the best players on the roster getting reps with the 1's. We don't need multiple experiments all across our D. The one place we can make a positive change is OLB. We are what we are at NT and #2CB. Put the best OLB's on the field with the 1's and to hell with the game checks and draft positions.

Mr teX
08-22-2011, 07:11 PM
That's a very nice post, but MW is showing us that he is not a very good passrusher from a 2 point stance. WP pointed that out explicitly in January. To be honest, MW wasn't all that extraordinary out of a 3 point stance. He was good on a regular basis, but great only a game or two a season. All in all, MW is an above average 4-3 DE. He hasn't shown himself to be a consistent disruptive force. That may be because we haven't surrounded him with enough talent, but it hasn't been for a lack of effort or draft picks. If he couldn't do it as a 4-3 DE, his natural position that he is physically gifted for, I seriously doubt he will be able to do it as a 3-4 OLB that physically limits him.

Most of these pass rushing specialists only have a few games a year where they are great to begin with....that's why they all freely acknowledge "sacks come in bunches". so mario's "few great times a year" is about on par with all the other guys.

So, u freely acknowledge that he was lined up with garbage around him but u dont think that he'll benefit just as much as the other players from better coaching & more talent around on the field...... after registering 9 sacks last year with the worst secondary in the nfl........while playing with a sports hernia?

I got news for u, no player does it by himself. Freeney with no mathis probably isn't as disruptive for the colts as he's been over the years. Clay mathews Probably isnt registering the numbers he is without the lockdown secondary he has behind him. Harrison isn't the force he is without woodley ( whom pitt. Just gave a fat contract to) on the other side & without one of the best safties in the game behind him....oh yeah, each of those guys have pedigreed DC's calling the shots for them as well. Has Mario EVER had anything close to that in his time in the league? I think u know the answer to that. Give him some time, i think he might just be allright.

drunkcookie
08-22-2011, 07:15 PM
$14mil for a player that might, maybe, one day be an average OLB in a 3-4 isn't good. MW is a 6'6" 285 behemoth. He should toss every single TE in the league away from him. He battles elite LT's every down of every game. That's like a Sperm whale getting manhandled by a Humboldt's squid. It's against the laws of the universe for that to happen.
We have 2 weeks to field an NFL caliber team and a weakness at WOLB in a 3-4 for is a good sign by any standard. I'm sick to effing death of thinking of woulda, shoulda, coulda every damned January. We need the best players on the roster getting reps with the 1's. We don't need multiple experiments all across our D. The one place we can make a positive change is OLB. We are what we are at NT and #2CB. Put the best OLB's on the field with the 1's and to hell with the game checks and draft positions.

You make valid points, and I'm not saying Mario will for sure pan out, I'm just sayint I'm not going to panic.... yet...

DocBar
08-22-2011, 07:21 PM
You make valid points, and I'm not saying Mario will for sure pan out, I'm just sayint I'm not going to panic.... yet...When do you panic? If not now, the new starter gets to get 1 snaps pretty late in the game. This isn't much different than naming a starting QB til opening day. It's just not smart management. Are you willing to lose a few games first?

drs23
08-22-2011, 07:30 PM
Thank's a crock. Carr was not even a starting caliber NFL QB. Mario is a Pro Bowl level defender. We were sold that Wade Phillips could turn the talent on this defense into a playoff caliber unit. He should be able to make that happen. Bill Belichick could win with this talent. Bill Cowher could win with this talent. Wade Phillips should be able to win with this talent.

Speaking of Carr, tonight might be his last action in a NFL uniform. Battling with another ex-Texan, Sage Rosenfels, for the Giants backup QB spot, Carr will be the ist QB off the bench tonight against the Bears. If he loses out to Sage, the Giants are not likely to keep him as the 3rd QB over Ryan Perrilloux. And if he gets cut from the Giants, Carr is likely to just call it a career after 9 years.

And why not Lucky, he's got a hot wife and plentyo cash? (We know he has at least $8 mill) Why stand on the sideline with a clipboard and rub blisters on your heels from brandy new shoes while fretting over how your hair looks?

DocBar
08-22-2011, 07:35 PM
Thank's a crock. Carr was not even a starting caliber NFL QB. Mario is a Pro Bowl level defender. We were sold that Wade Phillips could turn the talent on this defense into a playoff caliber unit. He should be able to make that happen. Bill Belichick could win with this talent. Bill Cowher could win with this talent. Wade Phillips should be able to win with this talent.

Speaking of Carr, tonight might be his last action in a NFL uniform. Battling with another ex-Texan, Sage Rosenfels, for the Giants backup QB spot, Carr will be the ist QB off the bench tonight against the Bears. If he loses out to Sage, the Giants are not likely to keep him as the 3rd QB over Ryan Perrilloux. And if he gets cut from the Giants, Carr is likely to just call it a career after 9 years.

And why not Lucky, he's got a hot wife and plentyo cash? (We know he has at least $8 mill) Why stand on the sideline with a clipboard and rub blisters on your heels from brandy new shoes while fretting over how your hair looks?Carr is back with the Giants????? Going against Rosencopter?????:lol::lol::lol: The karma is killin me!!!!!!!

drunkcookie
08-22-2011, 07:47 PM
When do you panic? If not now, the new starter gets to get 1 snaps pretty late in the game. This isn't much different than naming a starting QB til opening day. It's just not smart management. Are you willing to lose a few games first?

Well if you're waiting 'til opening day to name your starting pitcher, err, QB, than you probably have two bad QBs...

If Mario doesn't continue to get better then something needs to be done, no doubt, but I'm not expecting all out dominance after less than three quarters that saw more runs than passes and more quick passes than deep drops...

This next game will tell us more, I just don't think we've seen enough yet...

Obviously you are not sold... Neither am I, I'm just not selling...

fiasco west
08-22-2011, 07:53 PM
If you have a $14million leased car sitting in your driveway you want everything to be as close to what the salesman told you the car would perform like.

If you are looking in someone else's driveway at their $14 million car, you drool and don't worry about nothing, especially the huge dollar amount the next lease will cost.

Next time you are lurking, tell the Jets to make an offer that we cannot refuse and see what they say then.

Thing is though, until this point Mario has been a pro-bowl/all pro DE. He's performing like he should.

Maybe not right at this moment, but it is still preseason.

DocBar
08-22-2011, 07:54 PM
Thing is though, until this point Mario has been a pro-bowl/all pro DE. He's performing like he should.

Maybe not right at this moment, but it is still preseason.Huh? Last season MW was all that. This seasom he's an OLB in a 3-4. Apples and boiled eggs comparison.

fiasco west
08-22-2011, 08:00 PM
Huh? Last season MW was all that. This seasom he's an OLB in a 3-4. Apples and boiled eggs comparison.

Season hasn't even started yet. Things will look very different when the actual season starts and Wade starts to blitz more and use more exotic schemes. As I said, Wade knows what he's doing unlike the last DC here.

He's not going to put Mario in a position to fail over and over again and have his strengths wasted...still the preseason is there to try things out and for learning new things I'm pretty sure that's whats going on now.

DocBar
08-22-2011, 08:06 PM
Season hasn't even started yet. Things will look very different when the actual season starts and Wade starts to blitz more and use more exotic schemes. As I said, Wade knows what he's doing unlike the last DC here.

He's not going to put Mario in a position to fail over and over again and have his strengths wasted...still the preseason is there to try things out and for learning new things I'm pretty sure that's whats going on now.And MW will look more out of place than ever. Have you even questioned why MW types have never been tried at OLB before?

fiasco west
08-22-2011, 08:22 PM
And MW will look more out of place than ever. Have you even questioned why MW types have never been tried at OLB before?

Yes, I know that Mario is too big to be a OLB. Lets not forget though that for a big guy he's something special athletically. Which is why he went #1.

Again though, I am not going to make a judgement on it because this is just preseason. Things are worked on and tried out and I have faith that Wade isn't going to continue to keep Mario standing up a lot if it hurts the team.

Any ways I think of him as a OLB/DE as he's changing positions during preseason. Dude almost had a INT too.

Any ways I just can't count this transition as a failure until I see it when the season starts I guess.

prostock101
08-22-2011, 08:25 PM
I think sacks are the most overrated stat in the league. I would prefer if MW got no sacks but forced the QB to make a poor throw. Incomplete works for me. Just be that disruptive force we're always hearing about from practice.......

gary
08-22-2011, 08:59 PM
I think Mario will play better and better each game.

DocBar
08-22-2011, 09:04 PM
I think Mario will play better and better each game.And after 16 games be an average 3-4 OLB? Thanks but no thanks. If you want to show fan appreciation, hope he gets traded.

GP
08-22-2011, 09:06 PM
I think sacks are the most overrated stat in the league. I would prefer if MW got no sacks but forced the QB to make a poor throw. Incomplete works for me. Just be that disruptive force we're always hearing about from practice.......

Tell that to Antonio Smith who saved us 6 points when he got to Brees near the goal line.

Sorry, but the statement that "Sacks are overrated" is a plea bargain. You either can get to the QB or you can't. Two rookies (Braman and Reed) have shown that they can get to the QBs this preseason. As has Adibi. As has Nading. As has Watt. As has Smith. As has Cushing, even without being on the juice!

11 sacks and Mario doesn't have one of them. Not even a half-sack. Has he even had an assist attributed to him?

I'm not panicking. But I'm like Thunderkyss on this issue: No need to say Mario IS improving at his new position.

For me, it's an Incomplete and he has to turn in his work to the teacher by week 5 or 6. If that's harsh to say, then it's just an angry mama or daddy coming up to the school to chew out the teacher for holding the student to a standard. His peers are turning in their work, so can Mario.

Ryan
08-22-2011, 09:07 PM
And after 16 games be an average 3-4 OLB? Thanks but no thanks. If you want to show fan appreciation, hope he gets traded.


What does that even mean? Don't you think you're overreacting just a little bit? He hasn't even played a collective game yet, hardly even 3 quarters. I'm sorry, but i'll trust Wade Phillips and his judgement over some armchair GMs.

gary
08-22-2011, 09:08 PM
And after 16 games be an average 3-4 OLB? Thanks but no thanks. If you want to show fan appreciation, hope he gets traded.Why not hope he does well and wins a ring here?

DocBar
08-22-2011, 09:17 PM
Why not hope he does well and wins a ring here?Cuz he hasn't shown the wherewithall to bring that chamionship here since '06. MW is above average, but he's not elite. MW will never bring anything here, by himself, other than a direct deposit slip. He was only a part time gamechanger at his natural position, so I don't expect him to be anything different at a new position. I want the HOUSTON TEXANS to win. I could care less if MW wins a championship. He's proven for 5 years that he can't/won't put a team on his broad shoulders and carry them to the promise land.

Pantherstang84
08-22-2011, 09:17 PM
What does that even mean? Don't you think you're overreacting just a little bit? He hasn't even played a collective game yet, hardly even 3 quarters. I'm sorry, but i'll trust Wade Phillips and his judgement over some armchair GMs.

They rank right up there with the DJ Defensive Coordinators on the air today.

DocBar
08-22-2011, 09:20 PM
Well if you're waiting 'til opening day to name your starting pitcher, err, QB, than you probably have two bad QBs...

If Mario doesn't continue to get better then something needs to be done, no doubt, but I'm not expecting all out dominance after less than three quarters that saw more runs than passes and more quick passes than deep drops...

This next game will tell us more, I just don't think we've seen enough yet...

Obviously you are not sold... Neither am I, I'm just not selling...As the saying goes, if you have two QB's, you don't have one QB.

GP
08-22-2011, 09:20 PM
They rank right up there with the DJ Defensive Coordinators on the air today.

That's an example of what I am talking about in my previous post.

Why can't people discuss things, even if it's deemed to be "foolish" by others?

Instead of putting forth a line of reasoning, let's just belittle and demean people. It's the equivalent of throwing a rock and ducking behind momma.

DocBar
08-22-2011, 09:24 PM
That's an example of what I am talking about in my previous post.

Why can't people discuss things, even if it's deemed to be "foolish" by others?

Instead of putting forth a line of reasoning, let's just belittle and demean people. It's the equivalent of throwing a rock and ducking behind momma.Some people don't think in hypothetical lines of reasoning. They take things very literal. Not making excuses, just saying.

gary
08-22-2011, 09:25 PM
Cuz he hasn't shown the wherewithall to bring that chamionship here since '06. MW is above average, but he's not elite. MW will never bring anything here, by himself, other than a direct deposit slip. He was only a part time gamechanger at his natural position, so I don't expect him to be anything different at a new position. I want the HOUSTON TEXANS to win. I could care less if MW wins a championship. He's proven for 5 years that he can't/won't put a team on his broad shoulders and carry them to the promise land.Has AJ won on his own? I thought football was a team sport. If this team does nothing this year heads will role including Mario who won't return next year.

Rey
08-22-2011, 09:29 PM
Mario has been a top de in the league and he is nothing like freeney.

To me reed, Matthews, dummervile. . . They are more freeney esque in how they play de. Mario is never going to have spin moves or any of that quick directional change stuff. I think folks are expecting him to be that kind if lb when he's never even been that kind if de.

If you watch the man he's playing well. Brooks reed and other guys may look better getting after the qb, but Mario has been about as effective as anybody in the league.

He is going to be a stud at the position and I think he will shock the world once again.

Pantherstang84
08-22-2011, 09:30 PM
That's an example of what I am talking about in my previous post.

Why can't people discuss things, even if it's deemed to be "foolish" by others?

Instead of putting forth a line of reasoning, let's just belittle and demean people. It's the equivalent of throwing a rock and ducking behind momma.

My frustration today is that sports radio today is filled with a bunch of Capt. Obvious impersonators.

All day it was ragging on the defense and when someone tried to point the good aspects of the game, it was back to the defense is bad. This just 4 weeks into training without any other off season activity implementing a new defensive scheme. To the DJ DCs out there:

"Hey I get it. Yes the defense needs work. I know that. However, there are some encouraging signs as well. Forgive me, if I trust a man that has a 30+ year record of turning bad defenses around over someone who went to broadcasting school and reads the freaking Sporting News." /rant

Thanks. I needed that.

GP
08-22-2011, 09:32 PM
Has AJ won on his own? I thought football was a team sport. If this team does nothing this year heads will role including Mario who won't return next year.

If I'm asked to judge a player on his merits, on his ability to transform the game in terms of turning the tide to our favor--game by game--then I'm definitely going to say that Andre Johnson and Mario Williams are on different ends of that scale.

Which end would you put Andre on? Which end would you put Mario on? If you had to choose between the two, in terms of VALUE to the team, with all things considered, which guy earns the tag of Game Changer and which does not?

AJ has not won on his own, but this Texans team has not won much when he hasn't been (a) available to play and/or (b) given the ball as much as we can give it to him. Without AJ, the other WRs become a little less dangerous. The QB has fewer options to use from play to play.

Without Mario? Well, there are 11 sacks so far that say the defense is outgrowing its dependence upon Mario Williams to provide Game Changing moments. Moments that are, IMO, a little too infrequent.

GP
08-22-2011, 09:35 PM
My frustration today is that sports radio today is filled with a bunch of Capt. Obvious impersonators.

All day it was ragging on the defense and when someone tried to point the good aspects of the game, it was back to the defense is bad. This just 4 weeks into training without any other off season activity implementing a new defensive scheme. To the DJ DCs out there:

"Hey I get it. Yes the defense needs work. I know that. However, there are some encouraging signs as well. Forgive me, if I trust a man that has a 30+ year record of turning bad defenses around over someone who went to broadcasting school and reads the freaking Sporting News." /rant

Thanks. I needed that.

I was sort of thinking that the main topic on this particular thread was the issue of whether Mario, the singular man/player on this team, is or is not improving from week to week.

For those radio guys to be saying there is no improvement in the defense? Well, that's not what is going on in this thread. Is it? I don't see it going on. I just see people debating the role of Mario and if he is or is not "improving" from week to week.

I would share your frustration if I had heard the so-called radio commentators doing what you described. I just don't see any of the posters on here doing that same thing. Just my $0.02.

gary
08-22-2011, 09:35 PM
Mario has been a top de in the league and he is nothing like freeney.

To me reed, Matthews, dummervile. . . They are more freeney esque in how they play de. Mario is never going to have spin moves or any of that quick directional change stuff. I think folks are expecting him to be that kind if lb when he's never even been that kind if de.

If you watch the man he's playing well. Brooks reed and other guys may look better getting after the qb, but Mario has been about as effective as anybody in the league.

He is going to be a stud at the position and I think he will shock the world once again.Me too. You always hope that your number one overall pick has a good lifelong career with one team which in this case is the Texans.

Pantherstang84
08-22-2011, 09:36 PM
I was sort of thinking that the main topic on this particular thread was the issue of whether Mario, the singular man/player on this team, is or is not improving from week to week.

For those radio guys to be saying there is no improvement in the defense? Well, that's not what is going on in this thread. Is it? I don't see it going on. I just see people debating the role of Mario and if he is or is not "improving" from week to week.

I would share your frustration if I had heard the so-called radio commentators doing what you described. I just don't see any of the posters on here doing that same thing. Just my $0.02.

Sorry. I just needed to rant. Back to our regularly scheduled thread.

GP
08-22-2011, 09:39 PM
Starters supposedly playing 3 full quarters this week vs. 49ers.

Do we agree that Mario has 3 quarters to do work? I think this game will be crucial to seeing what Mario can do as a LB in a 34 defense. He'll have three quarters to show off.

If he's just playing outside contain or getting stood up at the line while others get to the RB or to the QB on the play, he's either lost the plot or he's being instructed to NOT beat his man (Wade playing games and not revealing Mario's strength in the 34).

I just don't see Wade Phillips asking any of his guys to play head games right now, not with what is on the line for this defense after being locked out since February and having no prep time except for the past three weeks.

DocBar
08-22-2011, 09:40 PM
Starters supposedly playing 3 full quarters this week vs. 49ers.

Do we agree that Mario has 3 quarters to do work? I think this game will be crucial to seeing what Mario can do as a LB in a 34 defense. He'll have three quarters to show off.

If he's just playing outside contain or getting stood up at the line while others get to the RB or to the QB on the play, he's either lost the plot or he's being instructed to NOT beat his man (Wade playing games and not revealing Mario's strength in the 34).

I just don't see Wade Phillips asking any of his guys to play head games right now, not with what is on the line for this defense after being locked out since February and having no prep time except for the past three weeks.I'll go with this.

Rey
08-22-2011, 09:40 PM
Tell that to Antonio Smith who saved us 6 points when he got to Brees near the goal line.

Sorry, but the statement that "Sacks are overrated" is a plea bargain. You either can get to the QB or you can't. Two rookies (Braman and Reed).

Mario has consistently collapsed the pocket on the qb.

Braman and reed each had one good game and comparing their stats to mario's is bogus IMO.

Braman acted an ass against third stringers. Kudos to him, but he didn't do much this past week.

Reed didnt do anything special the first week and this week he got one sack on a play where no one even attempted to block him. He looked good, but let's not act like these guys are out there kicking ass and taking names.

Another thing is that they have both played more snaps than Mario and have both gotten more opportunities.

I am pretty confident that Mario will make some noise and do great things when he's gotten more than 3 quarters to get into a groove.

gary
08-22-2011, 09:41 PM
If I'm asked to judge a player on his merits, on his ability to transform the game in terms of turning the tide to our favor--game by game--then I'm definitely going to say that Andre Johnson and Mario Williams are on different ends of that scale.

Which end would you put Andre on? Which end would you put Mario on? If you had to choose between the two, in terms of VALUE to the team, with all things considered, which guy earns the tag of Game Changer and which does not?

AJ has not won on his own, but this Texans team has not won much when he hasn't been (a) available to play and/or (b) given the ball as much as we can give it to him. Without AJ, the other WRs become a little less dangerous. The QB has fewer options to use from play to play.

Without Mario? Well, there are 11 sacks so far that say the defense is outgrowing its dependence upon Mario Williams to provide Game Changing moments. Moments that are, IMO, a little too infrequent.AJ has more value but I think fans want Mario to do more and the jury is still out on him. GO MARIO

GP
08-22-2011, 09:41 PM
Sorry. I just needed to rant. Back to our regularly scheduled thread.

No worries. You do wonder how some people get the sports commentary jobs they get, huh? LOL.

Steph Stradley, also known as Texans Chick on here, is an exception. Actually, Alan Burge (also known as aj on here) is another one. Both of them have legitimate analysis on this team.

Go to their blogs as much as you can. Occasionally, Paul Kuharsky of ESPN.com's AFC South "blog" is a good source of Texans news.

GP
08-22-2011, 09:47 PM
Mario has consistently collapsed the pocket on the qb.

Braman and reed each had two games each and comparing their stats to mario's is bogus IMO.

Braman acted an ass against third stringers. Kudos to him, but he didn't do much this past week.

Reed didnt do anything special the first week and this week he got one sack on a play where no one even attempted to block him. He looked good, but let's not act like these guys are out there kicking ass and taking names.

Another thing is that they have both played more snaps than Mario and have both gotten more opportunities.

I am pretty confident that Mario will make some noise and do great things when he's gotten more than 3 quarters to get into a groove.

Fair enough.

I think Braman was sleep walking in the Saints game. He wasn't pushing his man. Then again, was this something Wade desired out of Braman--To play more read-and-react, while giving the green light to Reed?

To me, it felt like Reed was asked to get after the Saint's QB's ass every play he was in on. And Braman was asked to play shallow, underneath stuff.

Is Mario being instructed to do the same thing? Make contact, but pull the throttle back and let others be the main QB rusher?

Reed, IIRC, was not in on many plays in the Jets game. To me, he was as heavily used in the Saints game as Braman was in the Jets game. It was as if it was Wade letting each of those guys get equal "feeding time" out there, in two separate games and doing two separate roles.

To me, Brooks Reed has THE GOODS. Braman flashed, but he's depth at best.

DocBar
08-22-2011, 09:49 PM
AJ has more value but I think fans want Mario to do more and the jury is still out on him. GO MARIOI think everyone here can agree with this. It's just that Mario doesn't seem to. AJ brings it every time he dresses up for a game. MW only seems to bring it when he gets dressed down before/after a game. There's just an entirely differnt level of effort, pride inn effort and job done between AJ and MW. Leaders lead. Followers get led. AJ is the former and MW, the latter. Hopefully, someone shows MW all these posts about him for 20 weeks and he takes it personal.

GP
08-22-2011, 09:54 PM
Does anybody get the feeling that Andre Johnson is a TOTALLY competitive person who would make you cry from all the **** he would talk to you, but yet he somehow chooses to stay quiet during the game and just "do work" and let the work stand on its own?

And by contrast, do you think that Mario is the same "chill" person on the field as he is in real life? I think some people carry the "Gentle Giant" tag, by virtue of their personality.

Andre Johnson harnesses his inner fire, channeling it into his on-the-field efforts. And maybe Mario is also channeling his own brand of personality and it's translating into these moments where you watch him and you think "Does Mario think as little of his performance as I do, or am I just asking too much of the guy?"

I can't decided if Mario has THE GOODS. He's got the ingredients, but it feels like the oven is at 250-degrees when it should be at 350 instead. Any of you gentleman bakers out there should see the correlation and importance of that analogy. Discuss.

badboy
08-22-2011, 10:13 PM
That's an example of what I am talking about in my previous post.

Why can't people discuss things, even if it's deemed to be "foolish" by others?

Instead of putting forth a line of reasoning, let's just belittle and demean people. It's the equivalent of throwing a rock and ducking behind momma.Excellent post and one I have posted before. This is true in real world as well as sports. Many folks just cannot be disagreed with or their position challenged. Maybe it is scary or something. Some have their opinions tied up with who they are and to have to re-evaluate their position somehow rocks their psyche.

gary
08-22-2011, 10:37 PM
I think everyone here can agree with this. It's just that Mario doesn't seem to. AJ brings it every time he dresses up for a game. MW only seems to bring it when he gets dressed down before/after a game. There's just an entirely differnt level of effort, pride inn effort and job done between AJ and MW. Leaders lead. Followers get led. AJ is the former and MW, the latter. Hopefully, someone shows MW all these posts about him for 20 weeks and he takes it personal.I like Mario. Will he ever be an elite OLB? I don't know. Time will tell a lot of it just depends on him but also Wade must put him in the best position to succeed on the field. We don't even know if he ever had the best coaching for him to even be an elite 43 DE because neither Bush or Smith were the cream of the crop as far as a 43 DC goes. And those two DC are all he ever had. I do have to wonder what would have happened had Mario had a top tier 43 DE from the start someone with experience. Now all of a sudden he is playing a brand new position through not even a full two preseason games and we don't know if Wade has told him to lay low for now or not. I am sure Wade has not even shown all of his new plays yet nor do I expect him to in preseason which is why I am willing to allow things to just play out a little longer than I normally would. If Mario turns out to be an All Pro that would icing on the cake but I would just like to see him as an important piece of a winning defense and most importantly a winning franchise.

badboy
08-22-2011, 10:41 PM
I like Mario. Will he ever be an elite OLB? I don't know. Time will tell a lot of it just depends on him but also Wade must put him in the best position to succeed on the field. We don't even know if he ever had the best coaching for him to even be an elite 43 DE because neither Bush or Smith were the cream of the crop as far as a 43 DC goes. And those two DC are all he ever had. Wonder what would have happened had Mario had a top tier 43 DE from the start someone with experience. Now all of a sudden he is playing a brand new position through not even a full two preseason games and we don't know if Wade has told him to lay low for now or not. I am sure Wade has not even shown all of his new plays yet nor do I expect him to in preseason which is why I am willing to allow things to just play out a little longer than I normally would. If Mario turns out to be an All Pro that would icing on the cake but I would just like to see him as an important piece of a winning defense and most importantly a winning franchise.I agree with your post Gary and think most if all fans want to see each Texan do well. It is pre-season and part of that is for us to voice our doubts, opinions and thoughts. We all sometimes allow our emotions to direct our voices and that should never lead to belittling another fan.

gary
08-22-2011, 10:49 PM
I agree with your post Gary and think most if all fans want to see each Texan do well. It is pre-season and part of that is for us to voice our doubts, opinions and thoughts. We all sometimes allow our emotions to direct our voices and that should never lead to belittling another fan.At least now you guys fully understand my feelings on Mario the player. I am tired but I just felt like I should give a more detailed stance on Mr. Williams.

Mr teX
08-22-2011, 11:31 PM
And MW will look more out of place than ever. Have you even questioned why MW types have never been tried at OLB before?

Noone had tried using a TE like don coryyell used kellen winslow before either...now damn near half the teams in the nfl have a TE like him.

The same can be said for players like LT & even A Mike Vick.

Defenses usually run behind offenses when it comes to innovating the game but it does happen on occasion & just b/c noone has tried it before doesnt mean it cant be done. im not saying mario's going to change the game like that, but the guy is a rare enough athletic freak to be able to do just that......if it indeed does click...lets also remember too, this KID is still only 26 years....about the same time most pro athletes enter their primes.

Rey
08-23-2011, 12:22 AM
Is Mario being instructed to do the same thing? Make contact, but pull the throttle back and let others be the main QB rusher?.

GP, what is different this year about mario's pass rush than any other year?

He looks the exact same to me.

Really the only difference I've see is on running plays and he drops into coverage more.

I dont get the complaints about the pass rush because he's always been a hot and cold guy, but over the course of a season he's mostly delivered.

Mario probably could have been more dominant throughout his career, but he looks the same to me rushing the passer as he always has except now he has more help and even when he isn't getting sacks we have other guys who can.

Plus, he still has his hand in the dirt a lot.

The fact that he doesn't have to be the one and only sack guy on the team is a huge plus.

Like I said, I believe Mario will be a dominant edge force.

I guess we will see what happens.

drunkcookie
08-23-2011, 06:55 AM
GP, what is different this year about mario's pass rush than any other year?

He looks the exact same to me.

Really the only difference I've see is on running plays and he drops into coverage more.
.

It is different in the sense he's just not low enough, he's got to get that leverage back... he's also going to have to be faster off the edge than he ever was in the 4-3...

he needs to work on some things, but it's too early to say it won't take... the pass coverage and run-defense for Mario doesn't look too shabby right now...

I just think people are buying too much into how many sacks everyone else has and how many Mario has: none... in less than three quarters of play Mario should have a sack? Are they saying he should have one every three quarters? So are they saying he has to end the season 21 sacks?

I saw him help collapse the pocket a few times last Saturday night, that's good, and had Antonio Smith not gotten through on the turnover-play, Mario looked to be getting pretty close to Brees and pretty close to separating from his blocker...

This doesn't have to be such a polarizing issue, where Mario will be great or Mario will completely suck at it and that's it... I don't believe either, I just believe he showed improvement from quarter one to quarters two and three, and without a real game for another three weeks, we can afford to let him try to improve some more...

gary
08-23-2011, 10:19 AM
The next game will go a long way in telling us if Mario has progressed and how much.

DocBar
08-23-2011, 11:26 AM
The next game will go a long way in telling us if Mario has progressed and how much.I really really hope I'm eating some crow after that game.

gary
08-23-2011, 12:01 PM
I really really hope I'm eating some crow after that game.I really really hope that I am eating some Kubiak crow after the season is over.

Mr teX
08-23-2011, 01:21 PM
I really really hope I'm eating some crow after that game.

So, what does Mario have to do for you to eat crow & at least get you to the point where you believe it's at least plausible for him to make the transition successfully? 1-2 sacks from the standing position? A sack & 3 qb pressures? etc. etc.

BigBull17
08-23-2011, 01:25 PM
It is different in the sense he's just not low enough, he's got to get that leverage back... he's also going to have to be faster off the edge than he ever was in the 4-3...

he needs to work on some things, but it's too early to say it won't take... the pass coverage and run-defense for Mario doesn't look too shabby right now...

I just think people are buying too much into how many sacks everyone else has and how many Mario has: none... in less than three quarters of play Mario should have a sack? Are they saying he should have one every three quarters? So are they saying he has to end the season 21 sacks?

I saw him help collapse the pocket a few times last Saturday night, that's good, and had Antonio Smith not gotten through on the turnover-play, Mario looked to be getting pretty close to Brees and pretty close to separating from his blocker...

This doesn't have to be such a polarizing issue, where Mario will be great or Mario will completely suck at it and that's it... I don't believe either, I just believe he showed improvement from quarter one to quarters two and three, and without a real game for another three weeks, we can afford to let him try to improve some more...

I thought he would struggle more reading the run and in zone, but he seems to have caught on to that rather quickly. We'll see how his rushing comes along. Too bad he sat in a horrible system with a bad dline coach for so long. Damage may be done.

beerlover
08-23-2011, 01:54 PM
When were still posting threads six years after Mario was drafted #1 overall & occupies 11% of Texans salary cap, that "Mario is improving at his new position" says it all.

DocBar
08-23-2011, 05:51 PM
So, what does Mario have to do for you to eat crow & at least get you to the point where you believe it's at least plausible for him to make the transition successfully? 1-2 sacks from the standing position? A sack & 3 qb pressures? etc. etc.If he can approach double digit sacks and consistently be disruptive, I'll probably be OK with it. My bad attitude has as much, or more, to do with a $14mil pricetag and the likelihood that we get nothing in return for him after the season. There are so many if's with this move it's not funny. Personally, I don't think the risk is worth the likely reward. We have enough ways to throw winnable games away without adding WOLB into the equation.

possum
08-23-2011, 08:10 PM
Mario has consistently collapsed the pocket on the qb.

We must be watching different games. Could you give me a couple of examples because I seem to keep missing them.

Braman and reed each had one good game and comparing their stats to mario's is bogus IMO.

Reed played better in both games than Mario. I'm tempted to say Braman did also.

Braman acted an ass against third stringers. Kudos to him, but he didn't do much this past week.

Its about making the most of you're opportunity and so far he has and Mario hasn't.

Reed didnt do anything special the first week and this week he got one sack on a play where no one even attempted to block him. He looked good, but let's not act like these guys are out there kicking ass and taking names.

How about when Reed bowled over the RB and knocked the QB down or when he jumped up and deflected a pass in the air giving the defense a chance at an interception in week one? Thats three things Mario has yet to do. And on the play where I quote, "he got one sack on a play where no one even attempted to block him" he blew off the line so fast that the OT never had a chance at touching him. Thats four things Mario hasn't come close to doing yet. Actually thats something Mario isn't even capable of doing. So lets not act like Mario is out there taking names and kicking ass either.

Another thing is that they have both played more snaps than Mario and have both gotten more opportunities.

I have been thinking about this and its starting to bother me. It's obvious that Mario isn't improving as fast as we all had hoped, why not play him more in these preseason games? If he's going to be our centerpiece on defense why not give him more reps? let him go against second and third teamers and see what happens? His position is to important to this defense, to this team to go into the regular season with him not getting it. I say leave his ass out there and let him sink or swim. The team comes first.


I am pretty confident that Mario will make some noise and do great things when he's gotten more than 3 quarters to get into a groove.

Wish I could feel that way. I just don't see it. I don't think he has what it takes to play the position. He isn't explosive enough, aggressive enough and he hasn't shown the instincts it would take to make up for those deficiencies.

Rey
08-23-2011, 08:14 PM
We must be watching different games. Could you give me a couple of examples because I seem to keep missing them.



Reed played better in both games than Mario. I'm tempted to say Braman did also.



Its about making the most of you're opportunity and so far he has and Mario hasn't.



How about when Reed bowled over the RB and knocked the QB down or when he jumped up and deflected a pass in the air giving the defense a chance at an interception in week one? Thats three things Mario has yet to do. And on the play where I quote, "he got one sack on a play where no one even attempted to block him" he blew off the line so fast that the OT never had a chance at touching him. Thats four things Mario hasn't come close to doing yet. Actually thats something Mario isn't even capable of doing. So lets not act like Mario is out there taking names and kicking ass either.



I have been thinking about this and its starting to bother me. It's obvious that Mario isn't improving as fast as we all had hoped, why not play him more in these preseason games? If he's going to be our centerpiece on defense why not give him more reps? let him go against second and third teamers and see what happens? His position is to important to this defense, to this team to go into the regular season with him not getting it. I say leave his ass out there and let him sink or swim. The team comes first.




Wish I could feel that way. I just don't see it. I don't think he has what it takes to play the position. He isn't explosive enough, aggressive enough and he hasn't shown the instincts it would take to make up for those deficiencies.

Tldr it all.

But I stated what I saw and kubiak and wade both came out and pretty much said the same thing.

I respect your opinion but I disagree. Guess we'll be able to look back and see who was correct.

otisbean
08-23-2011, 08:16 PM
There's definitely going to be learning curve for Mario. It's unrealistic to expect him to play a new position a be a force so early in the process. On Reed and Braman, as much as I'm encouraged by their play, they're playing against 2s and 3s.

mussop
08-23-2011, 08:17 PM
Mario has consistently collapsed the pocket on the qb.

We must be watching different games. Could you give me a couple of examples because I seem to keep missing them.

Braman and reed each had one good game and comparing their stats to mario's is bogus IMO.

Reed played better in both games than Mario. I'm tempted to say Braman did also.

Braman acted an ass against third stringers. Kudos to him, but he didn't do much this past week.

Its about making the most of you're opportunity and so far he has and Mario hasn't.

Reed didnt do anything special the first week and this week he got one sack on a play where no one even attempted to block him. He looked good, but let's not act like these guys are out there kicking ass and taking names.

How about when Reed bowled over the RB and knocked the QB down or when he jumped up and deflected a pass in the air giving the defense a chance at an interception in week one? Thats three things Mario has yet to do. And on the play where I quote, "he got one sack on a play where no one even attempted to block him" he blew off the line so fast that the OT never had a chance at touching him. Thats four things Mario hasn't come close to doing yet. Actually thats something Mario isn't even capable of doing. So lets not act like Mario is out there taking names and kicking ass either.

Another thing is that they have both played more snaps than Mario and have both gotten more opportunities.

I have been thinking about this and its starting to bother me. It's obvious that Mario isn't improving as fast as we all had hoped, why not play him more in these preseason games? If he's going to be our centerpiece on defense why not give him more reps? let him go against second and third teamers and see what happens? His position is to important to this defense, to this team to go into the regular season with him not getting it. I say leave his ass out there and let him sink or swim. The team comes first.


I am pretty confident that Mario will make some noise and do great things when he's gotten more than 3 quarters to get into a groove.

Wish I could feel that way. I just don't see it. I don't think he has what it takes to play the position. He isn't explosive enough, aggressive enough and he hasn't shown the instincts it would take to make up for those deficiencies.




Sorry didn't even realize I still had that old account.

mussop
08-23-2011, 08:20 PM
Tldr it all.

But I stated what I saw and kubiak and wade both came out and pretty much said the same thing.

I respect your opinion but I disagree. Guess we'll be able to look back and see who was correct.

For the good of the team I hope its you that is right. I was one of the few here that really wanted Mario over VY or Bush. I hope he becomes the next player that other players want to be like. Just starting to loose hope with the way I see things going.

thunderkyss
08-23-2011, 09:07 PM
So, what does Mario have to do for you to eat crow & at least get you to the point where you believe it's at least plausible for him to make the transition successfully? 1-2 sacks from the standing position? A sack & 3 qb pressures? etc. etc.

Remember 2006, when Demeco was kicking ass? 2009 when Cushing was over training? Bernard was laying it down?

It's not about sacks for me. It's about changing the game. Those guys were playmakers, gamechangers.

That's where Mario needs to be.

BullNation4Life
08-23-2011, 09:19 PM
Remember 2006, when Demeco was kicking ass? 2009 when Cushing was over training? Bernard was laying it down?

It's not about sacks for me. It's about changing the game. Those guys were playmakers, gamechangers.

That's where Mario needs to be.

and that is the damn shame of it all. I like me some Mario but having to utter the words "where Mario needs to be" makes me throw up in my mouth a little...

After 6 years in the league, Mario should already be there so we as fans shouldn't be having these discussions, but that is not the case because Mario is there....

Rey
08-23-2011, 09:30 PM
and that is the damn shame of it all. I like me some Mario but having to utter the words "where Mario needs to be" makes me throw up in my mouth a little...

After 6 years in the league, Mario should already be there so we as fans shouldn't be having these discussions, but that is not the case because Mario is there....

Mario has been a top producer at his position for a while now.

Has he really underachieved so much that he makes you want to vomit?

Im surprised you haven't killed yourself over other guys on the team.

Rey
08-23-2011, 09:39 PM
Remember 2006, when Demeco was kicking ass? 2009 when Cushing was over training? Bernard was laying it down?

It's not about sacks for me. It's about changing the game. Those guys were playmakers, gamechangers.

That's where Mario needs to be.

He was a de.

Certain positions by their nature don't lend themselves to playmaking as much as others.

That's like asking Casey to be a playmaker or game changer the way that Arian is.

thunderkyss
08-23-2011, 09:40 PM
Mario has been a top producer at his position for a while now.

Has he really underachieved so much that he makes you want to vomit?

Im surprised you haven't killed yourself over other guys on the team.

I agree with this. I was perfectly fine with Mario's complete game as a 4-3 DE. Today, we're talking about the 3-4 OLB formerly known as Super Mario.

thunderkyss
08-23-2011, 09:41 PM
He was a de.

Certain positions by their nature don't lend themselves to playmaking as much as others.

That's like asking Casey to be a playmaker or game changer the way that Arian is.

Or Dallas Clark or Chris Cooley.... Laron McClain... Mike Alstott....

Carr Bombed
08-23-2011, 09:44 PM
He was a de.

Certain positions by their nature don't lend themselves to playmaking as much as others.

That's like asking Casey to be a playmaker or game changer the way that Arian is.

Yeah, but the 3-4 OLBer position is a playmaker/game changer position. Mario Williams was a premiere 4-3 DE and he was being paid like one. If he can't be a premiere playmaker at OLBer, we need to put him back on the line or trade him, because I think the guy behind him can be one hell of a hell raiser at that position. Mario Williams needs to be a pro bowl caliber player at that position to justify the move or the whole experiment is a complete waste of time.

Rey
08-23-2011, 09:59 PM
Yeah, but the 3-4 OLBer position is a playmaker/game changer position. Mario Williams was a premiere 4-3 DE and he was being paid like one. If he can't be a premiere playmaker at OLBer, we need to put him back on the line or trade him, because I think the guy behind him can be one hell of a hell raiser at that position. Mario Williams needs to be a pro bowl caliber player at that position to justify the move or the whole experiment is a complete waste of time.

Who has said that it would be ok if he is an avg or mediocre player there?

80tothezone
08-24-2011, 03:53 AM
There's definitely going to be learning curve for Mario. It's unrealistic to expect him to play a new position a be a force so early in the process. On Reed and Braman, as much as I'm encouraged by their play, they're playing against 2s and 3s.

I have flipped on this issue after the second game, first game I was like well he played like 15 plays been in the system for a week etc... Just don't see paying the dud 14 mil so he can learn to play again... If he was a rookie tying up a rookie or second yr player's contract money then I would say give him time.... I dunno I like mario got a cool name and when he gets a sack they play the nintindo music at reliant... that being said I like seeing the texans in the playoffs more and 14 mil is a lot of money to a guy who hasn't produced in 2 yrs regardless of the reason...

80tothezone
08-24-2011, 04:03 AM
So, what does Mario have to do for you to eat crow & at least get you to the point where you believe it's at least plausible for him to make the transition successfully? 1-2 sacks from the standing position? A sack & 3 qb pressures? etc. etc.

Actually that would do nicely, I know this wasn't directed to me but I think a lot of people feel the same way, if he gets 13+ sacks this yr then ok I was wrong I will take mine(crow) with a lot of salt. He would need to be a dominant disruptive force for me to eat it though, this 8-9 sacs won't do it. I want the dude back there causing mistakes and putting the qb on his ass ( it's what we drafted him to do) If he is doing anything less than that then we put him on the block. If he can do that then I would eat it raw no salt and with a giant grin on my face...

otisbean
08-24-2011, 05:49 AM
I have flipped on this issue after the second game, first game I was like well he played like 15 plays been in the system for a week etc... Just don't see paying the dud 14 mil so he can learn to play again... If he was a rookie tying up a rookie or second yr player's contract money then I would say give him time.... I dunno I like mario got a cool name and when he gets a sack they play the nintindo music at reliant... that being said I like seeing the texans in the playoffs more and 14 mil is a lot of money to a guy who hasn't produced in 2 yrs regardless of the reason...

Im not concerned with what Mario makes this season, his contract is what it is. If he picks the position up and plays well as the season progresses then he'll make good money again. If he struggles, they'll either move him to DE or franchise him and trade him to a 4-3 team. I don't see this as a big issue. I hope he plays well, I just think you have to give the guy a little time to adjust and less than 3 quarters isn't much time.

drunkcookie
08-24-2011, 06:13 AM
Im not concerned with what Mario makes this season, his contract is what it is. If he picks the position up and plays well as the season progresses then he'll make good money again. If he struggles, they'll either move him to DE or franchise him and trade him to a 4-3 team. I don't see this as a big issue. I hope he plays well, I just think you have to give the guy a little time to adjust and less than 3 quarters isn't much time.

great post... that's what it's all about here... it could go either way...

It's funny, with a whole new defensive system and coaches and not a lot of time to install it, some people are expecting every piece to be perfect and ready to go right now... I just don't think a little less than three quarters of total play tells me anything...

...and just because a back-up has a few better plays in a couple more quarters time doesn't mean I'm handing him the wheel at the position... I love Reed, and think he can be very special, but he's pretty much played 5 quarters, so he should have some decent numbers compared to Mario's... And I get it, he's fast off the ball... Well I bet KJax would be just as fast off of the ball, so why don't we replace Mario with him?

Give Mario more than three freakin' quarters is all I'm asking... give him more time to create a groove...

Mr teX
08-24-2011, 09:42 AM
If he can approach double digit sacks and consistently be disruptive, I'll probably be OK with it. My bad attitude has as much, or more, to do with a $14mil pricetag and the likelihood that we get nothing in return for him after the season. There are so many if's with this move it's not funny. Personally, I don't think the risk is worth the likely reward. We have enough ways to throw winnable games away without adding WOLB into the equation.


Here are Pittsburgh's premier pass rushering OLB's stats for the last 2 years. The stats listed are sacks, Ints, FF & tackles. Keep in mind that Pitt just gave 1 of these dudes a fat contract.


2009* 31 PIT ROLB 10.0 0 5 60
2010* 32 PIT ROLB 10.5 2 6 70

2009* 25 PIT LOLB 13.5 0 1 51
2010 26 PIT LOLB 10.0 2 3 35

Basically, 10 sacks a game comes out to a little over 1/2 a sack a game. Keep in mind that these guys play off 1 another & have a HOF d-coord. calling the shots & they blitz a ton...oh yeah, they've got the best safety in the game behind them as well.

You guys don't think that a player of mario's caliber who's been very good with trash players & coaches around him can't put up those kinds of numbers with upgrades in both departments? Even if it is a new position technically, he still will have his hand down at times so what i just can't wrap my head around is why people think that he'll be exclusive standing up rushing the passer all the time? D. Ware Doesn't do it, Pittsburgh's guys don't do it..what's the big deal with him taking a larger portion of his snaps from the standing position?

CloakNNNdagger
08-24-2011, 12:10 PM
Some interesting comments of Mario's reported by Fox Sports.


Williams just warming up with his stand-up act (http://www.foxsportshouston.com/08/23/11/Williams-just-warming-up-with-his-stand-/landing_texans.html?blockID=552704&feedID=3714)

Mario Williams didn't ask to move positions. Wasn't his idea. It's what defensive coordinator Wade Phillips considered best for the team, so Williams went along.

But after only two preseason games in which Williams has played in limited doses, some Houston Texans fans are ready to ditch the whole concept. They're bailing on the switch much faster that the guy making the change.

"I know I can do it," Williams said of the transition from defensive end in a 4-3 alignment to outside linebacker in a 3-4. "The more repetitions, the easier it will be. It'll become second nature to me. I definitely know I can do it. . . . It's just more reps."

Many stars in any sport would balk at making a position change in the final year of a contract. Williams said that's not a factor for him.

"We'll deal with that after my year is up," he said. "I'm not really worried about that right now. Right now, I'm worried about getting off the ball properly from a two-point stance."

In fact, Williams believes the move could elevate his value.

"I'll be able to do 3-4 and 4-3," he said. "Really that's the big reason why I'm excited about doing it. It'll make me more versatile . . . more options."

Williams, 26, is entering his sixth NFL season. The No. 1 overall pick of the 2006 draft, he has two Pro Bowl seasons to his credit.

"You know, a guy of his caliber," teammate Brian Cushing said, "he could have easily blown up about it — made a big deal about it, requested a trade or whatever. You've seen it happen before. He's a team player, and he's bought into it."

Williams ranks sixth in the NFL in sacks the past four seasons, with 43-1/2. The Cowboys' DeMarcus Ware is at the top of the list with 60-1/2. Ware, too, converted from end to linebacker, although he made the change at the outset of his NFL career.

"Most of these guys did it from day one," Williams said. "I did this with no OTAs, straight training camp. It's definitely a bigger adjustment for me, I think, just because I don't have as much time and there's more anxiety to try to get it done soon."

Williams said that once he masters the new spot, he'll be able to react more freely to situations. But getting down basics such as the linebacker's stance and the new footwork will take time. It's not a given that Williams will transition to linebacker with success, but it's too soon to make the determination that he's unable to handle the change.

"This is only the third week I've been standing up," Williams said. "I've never been up this much."

If Williams can, indeed, become the rush linebacker Phillips believes he can be, the Texans' linebackers could develop into one of the best units in the NFL.

Errant Hothy
08-24-2011, 12:17 PM
The next game will go a long way in telling us if Mario has progressed and how much.

I really really hope I'm eating some crow after that game.

C'mon. It's the 49ers with Alex Smith at QB. I would hope MW looks good this weekend.

thunderkyss
08-24-2011, 12:35 PM
Some interesting comments of Mario's reported by Fox Sports.


Williams just warming up with his stand-up act (http://www.foxsportshouston.com/08/23/11/Williams-just-warming-up-with-his-stand-/landing_texans.html?blockID=552704&feedID=3714)
But after only two preseason games in which Williams has played in limited doses, some Houston Texans fans are ready to ditch the whole concept. They're bailing on the switch much faster that the guy making the change.

Are we being watched?

beerlover
08-24-2011, 12:50 PM
Are we being watched?

He can point fingers at me if he wants to, don't really give a damn. Richard Smith, Frank Bush even in the 4-3 dropped Mario into coverage too much for my liking & that never worked either. 6'7" 290 is a test of pure physics trying to redirect, stop & change directions on a dime. One of the two or three plays he dropped off the line of scrimmage when he was in position to make that interception, his back leg was kicked out from underneath him because of his wingspan that could have snapped his ACL.

This is no time for changing positions & experimentation. When he says I can play both the 3-4 & 4-3 I want him to mean DE period. Why in the hell is it so impossible to see what he can do as a 5 tech in Wade Phillips 3-4 isn't the whole point to draw in both lineman/TE to create the pass rush lanes for OLB's?

80tothezone
08-24-2011, 01:49 PM
I agree with this. I was perfectly fine with Mario's complete game as a 4-3 DE. Today, we're talking about the 3-4 OLB formerly known as Super Mario.
He really hasn't produced in 2 yrs 9 sacks then 8.5 last yr.. Just trying to be objective... Honestly I want to keep all of our texans I like our players but if he is not going to cut it in the 3-4 then we need to send him somewhere for a player that will

Mr teX
08-24-2011, 01:55 PM
He can point fingers at me if he wants to, don't really give a damn. Richard Smith, Frank Bush even in the 4-3 dropped Mario into coverage too much for my liking & that never worked either. 6'7" 290 is a test of pure physics trying to redirect, stop & change directions on a dime. One of the two or three plays he dropped off the line of scrimmage when he was in position to make that interception, his back leg was kicked out from underneath him because of his wingspan that could have snapped his ACL.

This is no time for changing positions & experimentation. When he says I can play both the 3-4 & 4-3 I want him to mean DE period. Why in the hell is it so impossible to see what he can do as a 5 tech in Wade Phillips 3-4 isn't the whole point to draw in both lineman/TE to create the pass rush lanes for OLB's?

He could just as easily do that playing DE in with a mis step. Furthermore, U can say the bolded about any man 250 plus that drops into coverage playing a game as fast as NFL football. & there's alot of those. Mario's not a clumsy player where you maybe would worry about that a little bit. He's also not 1 of these guys that carries his weight badly like a Pat Williams or Gilbert brown; it's distributed well over his frame.

thunderkyss
08-24-2011, 02:06 PM
He really hasn't produced in 2 yrs 9 sacks then 8.5 last yr.. Just trying to be objective... Honestly I want to keep all of our texans I like our players but if he is not going to cut it in the 3-4 then we need to send him somewhere for a player that will

9 sacks, then 8.5 sacks.....

I'm not going to belittle the numbers, they are what they are. But Mario is not only better than average at getting to the QB, I think he is the best run stopping DE in the league which makes him the most well-rounded/versatile if you ask me.

Is that what you want from your #1 overall pick?

A beast of a player that plays every down... yeah, that's what I want.

& that's 8.5 sacks in 11 games which was good enough to lead the Texans.

80tothezone
08-24-2011, 02:23 PM
9 sacks, then 8.5 sacks.....

I'm not going to belittle the numbers, they are what they are. But Mario is not only better than average at getting to the QB, I think he is the best run stopping DE in the league which makes him the most well-rounded/versatile if you ask me.

Is that what you want from your #1 overall pick?

A beast of a player that plays every down... yeah, that's what I want.

& that's 8.5 sacks in 11 games which was good enough to lead the Texans.

Well leading the texans in sacks last yr ... I will leave that one alone... and he was getting blown up on the run last week too... I was in mario's camp last yr with the injury etc ... just think we have enough young talent behind him to shop some other teams and see what we can get for him. Would you really pay top shelf money for a guy who was 27th in the league in sacks last yr and not much better the yr before ? I hate to come to this realization but Mario seems more like regular small pre mushroom mario than Super big fireflower mario...

Mr teX
08-24-2011, 03:55 PM
Well leading the texans in sacks last yr ... I will leave that one alone... and he was getting blown up on the run last week too... I was in mario's camp last yr with the injury etc ... just think we have enough young talent behind him to shop some other teams and see what we can get for him. Would you really pay top shelf money for a guy who was 27th in the league in sacks last yr and not much better the yr before ? I hate to come to this realization but Mario seems more like regular small pre mushroom mario than Super big fireflower mario...

:vincepalm:

We had lots of young talent in the secondary behind Dunta last year too, how'd that work out for us? & why do you guys keep bringing up how much he makes like its an argument? He's in the last year of his contract. If it doesn't work out for him at olb, he can be released or signed for less money if he wants to come back to houston.......or he can be franchised & traded. You guys just need to relax & at least let the man get 1 or 2 meaningful & full games under his belt where Wade has all of his bullets in the gun before you can begin to say whether or not this guy'll be able to do it or not. As it is it just comes off ridiculously foolish to doom the guy before any of the above has happened yet.

80tothezone
08-24-2011, 04:31 PM
:vincepalm:

We had lots of young talent in the secondary behind Dunta last year too, how'd that work out for us? & why do you guys keep bringing up how much he makes like its an argument? He's in the last year of his contract. If it doesn't work out for him at olb, he can be released or signed for less money if he wants to come back to houston.......or he can be franchised & traded. You guys just need to relax & at least let the man get 1 or 2 meaningful & full games under his belt where Wade has all of his bullets in the gun before you can begin to say whether or not this guy'll be able to do it or not. As it is it just comes off ridiculously foolish to doom the guy before any of the above has happened yet.

If we were not riding the cap so close I would say w/e but 14 mil makes a big difference. The amount of money he makes does make a difference because 14 mil is caproom we could have potentially used for asumwah or some other CB or a NT or a lot of different ****. Lots of money to pay someone to learn ... lots of cap space that is why it matters...there are plenty of 4-3 teams that need a Mario and we could use their CB's or a person more built for the 3-4 that is all I am saying.... I don't want to get rid of him persay but if we could fill in one of the other holes on D and stay cap friendly why not if he is not getting it done as a OLB... Send him to Philly for samuels and a 2+4 or something... That said He needs to be an impact player on Sat (that is a month in the system), if he really wants to do this transition then he should be eating sleeping and ****ting 3-4 olb, We don't have 3 weeks into the season for him to "get it" we play the colts, saints steelers and ravens in the first 5 games... If he don't get it Sat we need another solution period end of story...

Also Dunta would not have made a big difference in last yr we got no pressure on the qb so having KJ 2.0 would not have helped us... ( 7 passes defended and one int ..... break out the 20 mil contract for that guy he is going places....)

thunderkyss
08-24-2011, 05:17 PM
Well leading the texans in sacks last yr ... I will leave that one alone... and he was getting blown up on the run last week too... I was in mario's camp last yr with the injury etc ... just think we have enough young talent behind him to shop some other teams and see what we can get for him. Would you really pay top shelf money for a guy who was 27th in the league in sacks last yr and not much better the yr before ? I hate to come to this realization but Mario seems more like regular small pre mushroom mario than Super big fireflower mario...

Yes.

infantrycak
08-24-2011, 05:24 PM
Criticizing HWWNBN = spot on.

All these Mario threads = stupid piled on stupid.

Grams
08-24-2011, 05:26 PM
criticizing hwwnbn = spot on.

All these mario threads = stupid piled on stupid.

amen!!!!

ObsiWan
08-24-2011, 05:33 PM
Criticizing HWWNBN = spot on.

All these Mario threads = stupid piled on stupid.
Repped.

Playoffs
08-24-2011, 05:42 PM
All these Mario threads = stupid piled on stupid.
Stupider & stupiderer.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_D2__HdsjZFA/TGKvsKTocXI/AAAAAAAABaU/5_Xy4zrN8yY/s400/Dumb-Dumber_l.jpg

ChampionTexan
08-24-2011, 05:51 PM
Criticizing HWWNBN = spot on.

All these Mario threads = stupid piled on stupid.

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae188/GraceMarie8/Gifs/10dy7et.gif

80tothezone
08-24-2011, 06:13 PM
Yes.

Well then I am glad ur not in the FO ..... hopefully they will have a little better judgement or I am wrong either way Texans make the play offs

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

GP
08-24-2011, 06:14 PM
Criticizing HWWNBN = spot on.

All these Mario threads = stupid piled on stupid.

Let's talk about how HWWNBN and how that fits within the context of this.

RECOGNIZING A PROBLEM
It took a few years, hell...it took the last year or two (his 3rd and 4th year) for people to generally see there was a fundamental problem with him. Very few on here were brave enough to state, early on, that there was a problem with him, and when they did...they got the treatment you're giving out for Mario criticizers.

LESSONS LEARNED
In fact, I argue that it was BECAUSE of the problem with HWWNBN that fans are better prepared to see when players are failing at their jobs and are being coddled or tolerated by ownership and the FO. I'm actually glad that we're acting less like mushrooms around here--Mushrooms need darkness and manure to grow, btw.

SAME OLD **** (from everybody involved!)
Then there's the media fluff piece that's recently posted on here by CND, which is so syrupy and sugary and yummy to eat (If you buy the propaganda being fed by coaches and players)...it all adds up to Same Old ****, which is "Don't panic. He just needs more time. It's too early. He doesn't have to do x-thing to be good, as long as he does y-thing instead." And my favorite of all, "Fans who voice a critical opinion on this are irrational and lack football knowledge."

DE JA VU ALL OVER AGAIN
Seems like we've been here before. Except some remember the past and try to not repeat it. Even if they get called names. They remember past failings and what the coaches, the owner, the coordinators, teammates, and local sympathetic "eager to win approval from Texans brass" media reporters all say and do when someone is not fitting a system or producing to a standard they should.

HONESTY vs. HOMER'ing
This team no longer needs a singular, heroic player to do all the heavy lifting and elevate the play of those around him. For as much talk about Mario that's taking place, it's fair to be critical of him.

What is the acceptable timeframe to look at a body of work for Mario? He says he's not used to standing up this much. Seriously, Mario? Standing up is a major hurdle in your transition? Seriously??? LOL. Wow.

All I see is people talking about what a radical departure for him this is--even Mario is saying it--and a coach (Kubiak) saying he's getting better and is taking to the teaching of the coaches. This same stuff was being said about another high-profile #1 overall pick by Texans.

SO.......
Sue us if we're a bit impatient and not as trusting of the "reports" about Mario Williams. I re-watched the Texans preseason game vs. Saints 4 times already (I get bored at night). I see Mario failing to shed his blocker, failing to make a swim move inward or outward (moves that Reed can already do) and just generally not progressing past the stage of engaging his man opposite him.

Players either got it, or they don't. And then there are those who just "look good" doing it in sub-standard manner. To me, David Carr and Mario Williams are eerily similar in that they never transformed games by themselves but they are highly vaunted for doing certain "things" well. I won't say the two players are equals on the same footing, that would be foolish beyond the pale. I am saying that both players have their own personal "ceiling of achievement" and don't seem to get near it...but we should just wait for that magical moment when it suddenly all comes together and appears before our eyes.

At this moment, there seems to be several LBs who "get it" and apply it consistently. Mario is not one of them. He still looks like a 4-3 DE trying to do the right thing, for right reasons, but getting wrong results. More reps he says? More reps say the fans? OK. I'm game. But remember that Brooks Reed looks verrrry comfortable out there. Looks fluid. Instinctive and not "reactive." I'm just sayin'......

DocBar
08-24-2011, 06:15 PM
9 sacks, then 8.5 sacks.....

I'm not going to belittle the numbers, they are what they are. But Mario is not only better than average at getting to the QB, I think he is the best run stopping DE in the league which makes him the most well-rounded/versatile if you ask me.

Is that what you want from your #1 overall pick?

A beast of a player that plays every down... yeah, that's what I want.

& that's 8.5 sacks in 11 games which was good enough to lead the Texans.MW is an above average DE by every definition of the term. I also agree with you on the run D. IMO, he's very underrated in that regard. He stretches the field, turns plays back inside and has run down virtually every RB in the league that tried to cut it back.
To clarify my position, I don't have any problem with MW's production as a DE. He's top 5 in the league at that position. My problem right now is that I want this team to win and win now. If we put his hand down and let him rush the passer, he's one of the best players on the team. Stand him and ask him to do the same right now? He's not. Next year? Maybe, maybe not. Wade Phillips commented, rather harshly, on MW's false 1st step when he was first asked about this. All indications are that WP's gut instinct was right and politics have overruled it.

thunderkyss
08-24-2011, 06:50 PM
Let's talk about how HWWNBN and how that fits within the context of this.

RECOGNIZING A PROBLEM
It took a few years, hell...it took the last year or two (his 3rd and 4th year) for people to generally see there was a fundamental problem with him. Very few on here were brave enough to state, early on, that there was a problem with him, and when they did...they got the treatment you're giving out for Mario criticizers.

LESSONS LEARNED
In fact, I argue that it was BECAUSE of the problem with HWWNBN that fans are better prepared to see when players are failing at their jobs and are being coddled or tolerated by ownership and the FO. I'm actually glad that we're acting less like mushrooms around here--Mushrooms need darkness and manure to grow, btw.


I don't know if the lessons been learned. I was among the first people who called out DC for what he was. I listed the problems with his game & juxtoposed those next to years of service.

Mario has no such issues. You can't point to any quantifiable problem in Mario's game. The naysayers simply state that he doesn't have a motor... he takes plays off... he takes himself out of plays..... If you listen to them, Mario is only really playing 30-40% of the snaps he takes... he's the Randy Moss of defense.

What I mean is that he generally gets them the results they're looking for anyway. Yes, he got hurt last year. & he played hurt in 2009. But he's the real deal.

I had no doubt that David Carr didn't make a pimple on a QBs ass. I won't lie. I tried to root for him in 2006 (bought a Carr Jersey... even wore it to a game). I tried to identify minute improvement in his game. But the fact remained that he did not comprehend the game or his role.

I have no doubt Mario is a premier pass rusher in this league. Hand down, hand up, hand behind his back. He'll figure it out.

fiasco west
08-24-2011, 06:57 PM
Criticizing HWWNBN = spot on.

All these Mario threads = stupid piled on stupid.

The guy makes two All-Pro teams and people think he's above average or underachieving...

Not Pro-bowl teams, great players can stack up those appearances...but All-pro is something else entirely. Andre Johnson has only made it 4x and is 4 years older than Mario. That should put it in perspective.

Can't even compare to Carr. Carr didn't accomplish a thing in the NFL beyond flashing his potential once in awhile.

thunderkyss
08-24-2011, 06:58 PM
Wade Phillips commented, rather harshly, on MW's false 1st step when he was first asked about this. All indications are that WP's gut instinct was right and politics have overruled it.

Rather harshly? really?

Anywho, I can't imagine politics winning out any decision for the Texans in 2011. They need to win & win now. Gary understands how lucky he is & I'm sure McNair does as well.

If Mario isn't getting to the QB on a regular basis standing up, He'll put his hand on the ground.

Pantherstang84
08-24-2011, 07:16 PM
Criticizing HWWNBN = spot on.

All these Mario threads = stupid piled on stupid.

http://people.consolidated.net/rolisr/Media/RonWhite_BW.jpg

nytexan
08-24-2011, 07:21 PM
Criticizing HWWNBN = spot on.

All these Mario threads = stupid piled on stupid.

Amen Brother and Repped

Errant Hothy
08-24-2011, 07:29 PM
Criticizing HWWNBN = spot on.

All these Mario threads = stupid piled on stupid.

Why?

Can you offer anything more than this?

Has he honestly looked good to you rushing the QB so far this preseason?

When Smith says that MW has been unblockable in practice I get scared about the performanc of the O-line. Because he has certainly been blockable during games.

Has Mario looked bad? Not at all but he has looked remarkable average. Could he improve? Certainly. But my biggest concern has been the lack of explosion at the snap, which I don't know if can improve. A quick first step should be one of the skills that MW already possessed.

infantrycak
08-24-2011, 07:59 PM
Let's talk about how HWWNBN and how that fits within the context of this. ...

I would respond but then you would claim some martyrdom in me responding to you.

Why?

Can you offer anything more than this?

Has he honestly looked good to you rushing the QB so far this preseason?

When Smith says that MW has been unblockable in practice I get scared about the performanc of the O-line. Because he has certainly been blockable during games.

Has Mario looked bad? Not at all but he has looked remarkable average. Could he improve? Certainly. But my biggest concern has been the lack of explosion at the snap, which I don't know if can improve. A quick first step should be one of the skills that MW already possessed.

Anything more? LOL. Sure. He has remarkable range and has been an exceptional run stopper. At the same time he has over his time in the league produced top tier QB pressures and sacks. Outside of Houston he is regarded as a top tier player who must be game planned for by commentators, fans and coaches. It is only around here he gets dogged. Dude is remarkably athletic learning a new position and folks won't give him even a complete game to judge him. It's f(*king stupid.

Rey
08-24-2011, 08:07 PM
I would respond but then you would claim some martyrdom in me responding to you.



Anything more? LOL. Sure. He has remarkable range and has been an exceptional run stopper. At the same time he has over his time in the league produced top tier QB pressures and sacks. Outside of Houston he is regarded as a top tier player who must be game planned for by commentators, fans and coaches. It is only around here he gets dogged. Dude is remarkably athletic learning a new position and folks won't give him even a complete game to judge him. It's f(*king stupid.

This.

I've criticized him for his play at times, but folks are acting like he's some scrub.

Dude is a premiere player.

Errant Hothy
08-24-2011, 09:03 PM
Anything more? LOL. Sure. He has remarkable range and has been an exceptional run stopper. At the same time he has over his time in the league produced top tier QB pressures and sacks. Outside of Houston he is regarded as a top tier player who must be game planned for by commentators, fans and coaches. It is only around here he gets dogged. Dude is remarkably athletic learning a new position and folks won't give him even a complete game to judge him. It's f(*king stupid.

As a 43 end all of that is true and than some in all honesty. Sadly he is longer a 43 end. As a 34 rush OLB all of his natural ability will stand him in good stead when dropping into coverage, stopping the run and covering the flat; but the most important of his game is to sack the QB. For all of athletic talent MW has he looked average coming off the line so far this pre- season. I don't think Wade was blowing smoke when he first got here and talked about MW being a 5 tech DE.

As for not giving him a complete game to judge him on. Dude is a 6 year vet who had ample time to prep for this. And while he did cut weight to get faster it hasnt seemed to have worked. He looks no quicker this year than he did last.

Do I think he is going to suck? No. Do I think he is going to have a big enough impact as a 34 OLB to justify matching the possible contract a team will likely offer him to go back to being a 43 end? That's the question that is going to have to be answered by the FO this year.

Pantherstang84
08-24-2011, 09:12 PM
I'm bookmarking this thread for future reference.

80tothezone
08-24-2011, 09:18 PM
My question also is why all the loyalty to him, to prove we were right to draft him over bush and VY... I think we were and most people would agree considering the dismal careers those guys have had and he is a good 4-3 DE .... I can understand being loyal to a guy like andre or OD or Schaub guys that have delivered recently and consistently but to keep loyal to a guy that really was only better than good two years of a 5 year career just doesn't make sense... and he makes 14 mil doing it..

Pantherstang84
08-24-2011, 09:25 PM
My question also is why all the loyalty to him, to prove we were right to draft him over bush and VY... I think we were and most people would agree considering the dismal careers those guys have had and he is a good 4-3 DE .... I can understand being loyal to a guy like andre or OD or Schaub guys that have delivered recently and consistently but to keep loyal to a guy that really was only better than good two years of a 5 year career just doesn't make sense... and he makes 14 mil doing it..

Come on. At least give the dude one freaking game for crying out loud. :clown: :clown:

Tango
08-24-2011, 09:26 PM
anything more? Lol. Sure. He has remarkable range and has been an exceptional run stopper. At the same time he has over his time in the league produced top tier qb pressures and sacks. Outside of houston he is regarded as a top tier player who must be game planned for by commentators, fans and coaches. It is only around here he gets dogged. Dude is remarkably athletic learning a new position and folks won't give him even a complete game to judge him. It's f(*king stupid.

qft

steelbtexan
08-24-2011, 09:43 PM
MW is an all pro DE.

He is and will be an avg OLB.

He's got very little burst off the edge. Hopefully he will get better. He could be a great 5 tech. Better than he was as a 4-3 DE. But he doesn't want to play that position and the Texans org. gave in to his wishes. (shocking)

MW is the same inconsistent player that he was at N.C. State.

80tothezone
08-24-2011, 10:11 PM
Come on. At least give the dude one freaking game for crying out loud. :clown: :clown:

To me it is not about this season.... when you look at it he might be the best DE on the texans the last couple of years but that doesn't say much... He really is not the same guy he was in the two 10+sack seasons, He has been good but by no means great recently. Again I hope I am wrong and the switch lights a fire under his ass but so far nothing impressive Like I said in another post or on another thread Sat is D-Day he must bring it...

Pantherstang84
08-24-2011, 10:21 PM
To me it is not about this season.... when you look at it he might be the best DE on the texans the last couple of years but that doesn't say much... He really is not the same guy he was in the two 10+sack seasons, He has been good but by no means great recently. Again I hope I am wrong and the switch lights a fire under his ass but so far nothing impressive Like I said in another post or on another thread Sat is D-Day he must bring it...

This season is the only one that matters right and it hasn't even.... Gahhh! What am I doing? Geez. I'm done. Thread bookmarked.

fiasco west
08-24-2011, 10:32 PM
To me it is not about this season.... when you look at it he might be the best DE on the texans the last couple of years but that doesn't say much... He really is not the same guy he was in the two 10+sack seasons, He has been good but by no means great recently. Again I hope I am wrong and the switch lights a fire under his ass but so far nothing impressive Like I said in another post or on another thread Sat is D-Day he must bring it...

How about one of the best DE's in the NFL. You do know he's made the All-Pro team twice right?

I also find it odd that you are loyal to OD before Mario considering OD has not been as good since 2008.

GP
08-24-2011, 10:46 PM
I would respond but then you would claim some martyrdom in me responding to you.



Anything more? LOL. Sure. He has remarkable range and has been an exceptional run stopper. At the same time he has over his time in the league produced top tier QB pressures and sacks. Outside of Houston he is regarded as a top tier player who must be game planned for by commentators, fans and coaches. It is only around here he gets dogged. Dude is remarkably athletic learning a new position and folks won't give him even a complete game to judge him. It's f(*king stupid.

He is spoken of outside of Houston because we've had **** elsewhere on this defense. Oh, excuse me...correction: We have had DeMeco Ryans (dogged by injuries) and Brian Cushing (dogged by over-training syndrome) and Dunta Robinson (dogged by being franchise tagged and pissed off about it) and we've had a craptastic secondary coordinated by crap coaches for FOUR years now.

Yeah, Mario Williams is spoken well of outside of Houston because he's a beauty queen amongst a squadron of drag queens. Let's be honest for a second: He's been a good player, the best we've had on defense, but he is not unstoppable nor is he a game altering presence out there. He's not.

At least I won't bathe in Kool Aid and pee Sunshine all over the place when Kubiak, certain media reporters, and fellow teammates of Mario practically try to SELL US on how swell it's going for Mario so far.

Question: Did anybody EVER have to speak such bilk about Andre Johnson his whole career? Where was this sales job when Andre Johnson was racking up stats with Carr at QB? Where was this talk when AJ had to learn Kubiak's offense and adjust to a new QB? It wasn't there, because it didn't have to be there. Because AJ was and IS a game altering presence out there.

To me, Andre Johnson is the barometer for what we're discussing here. And Mario doesn't fit that. He is the best on defense we HAD, but I think the riddance of Amobi Okoye and the emergence of some of these other LBs and JJ Watt and the presence of better secondary players (and the presence of a genuinely talented and savvy d-coordinator) is just begging Mario to get to that Andre Johnson level of being a consistently dominant, game altering presence out there.

This.

I've criticized him for his play at times, but folks are acting like he's some scrub.

Dude is a premiere player.

Oh Geez, rey. Are you serious with that?

Nobody is acting like he is a scrub.

Premiere player? That's unfitting. Not a scrub. But not Andre Johnson caliber, either.

You guys continue repping each other and having fun with that. LOL.

GP
08-24-2011, 10:53 PM
Why?

Can you offer anything more than this?

No, he can't.

He's right because others are "fvcking stupid" according to him.

Don't you see the genius in that? Others do, and are repping him for it.

It's so logical. To him, at least.

80tothezone
08-24-2011, 11:05 PM
How about one of the best DE's in the NFL. You do know he's made the All-Pro team twice right?

I also find it odd that you are loyal to OD before Mario considering OD has not been as good since 2008.

Best DE in the NFL or among them?
from 2010 stats are organized by tackles
92 Mario Williams HOU DE 28 22 6 8.5 -- -- -- -- -- -- 1 -- that 92 is 92 in the league in tackles among defensive lineman .... The 8.5 ranks 27th in the league 15th among DE's... OD Tore his ACL but has been a consistent player despite that plus he looks good this year and the Offense wasn't historically horrible last yr

Scooter
08-25-2011, 03:42 AM
Anything more? LOL. Sure. He has remarkable range and has been an exceptional run stopper. At the same time he has over his time in the league produced top tier QB pressures and sacks. Outside of Houston he is regarded as a top tier player who must be game planned for by commentators, fans and coaches. It is only around here he gets dogged. Dude is remarkably athletic learning a new position and folks won't give him even a complete game to judge him. It's f(*king stupid.

mario is an incredible talent and i would put him top 3 among all defensive ends in football. #1 in my unbiased as possible opinion as the most complete defensive end in the NFL.

i wouldnt even rank him as an OLB. dwight howard as a point guard would still be a great player, and he'd get his points, but playing an unnatural position weakens the team. for analogy's sake, instead of making dwight howard a power forward, we're making him a 2 guard.

forget everything else. take results and blockers out of the picture. ignore preseason or practice or last season in the same role (that everyone has forgotten). look at mario's reaction, burst, and skillset. he's got exceptional talent, but his talent doesnt lie in beating a quarterback to his 5th step (even unblocked), it lies in being the best pass rusher on a horrid line, overwhelming blockers in "mind off" settings and being a great run stopper. mario is an A to B player ... and the simpler and shorter that line is made, the greater his play is. by standing mario up, we've gone back to his rookie season and complicated a successful formula.

Lucky
08-25-2011, 06:18 AM
He is the best on defense we HAD, but I think the riddance of Amobi Okoye and the emergence of some of these other LBs and JJ Watt and the presence of better secondary players (and the presence of a genuinely talented and savvy d-coordinator) is just begging Mario to get to that Andre Johnson level of being a consistently dominant, game altering presence out there.
Emergence of other LBs? We've had 2 preseason games. No one has emerged as anything but a preseason flash. Let's actually play at least one real game before going chicken little on Mario (a guy who has accounted for 38% of this team's sacks over the past 4 seasons).

thunderkyss
08-25-2011, 07:15 AM
mario is an incredible talent and i would put him top 3 among all defensive ends in football. #1 in my unbiased as possible opinion as the most complete defensive end in the NFL.

i wouldnt even rank him as an OLB. dwight howard as a point guard would still be a great player, and he'd get his points, but playing an unnatural position weakens the team. for analogy's sake, instead of making dwight howard a power forward, we're making him a 2 guard.

forget everything else. take results and blockers out of the picture. ignore preseason or practice or last season in the same role (that everyone has forgotten). look at mario's reaction, burst, and skillset. he's got exceptional talent, but his talent doesnt lie in beating a quarterback to his 5th step (even unblocked), it lies in being the best pass rusher on a horrid line, overwhelming blockers in "mind off" settings and being a great run stopper. mario is an A to B player ... and the simpler and shorter that line is made, the greater his play is. by standing mario up, we've gone back to his rookie season and complicated a successful formula.

I like the fact that we are seeing some coverage sacks in the preseason. De or OLB, I think that means Mario will get to the QB more often. I agree that so far, it doesn't look promising, but I also think Wade & crew are as attuned to the situation as we are. I think they'll make the right call.

infantrycak
08-25-2011, 09:36 AM
Premiere player? That's unfitting. Not a scrub. But not Andre Johnson caliber, either..

No, he can't.

He's right because others are "fvcking stupid" according to him.

Don't you see the genius in that? Others do, and are repping him for it.

It's so logical. To him, at least.

Yeah I did. Yes statements like yours above are f$%king stupid. AJ is now the virtually undisputed best WR in the NFL. That's a ridiculous standard for premiere player. That's like saying Philip Rivers can't be a premiere player because he isn't as good as Peyton Manning. And Mario is spoken of outside of Houston because his play has been top tier and one of the most complete DE's in the league and because apparently the rest of the league and commentators aren't as brain dead as many Houston fans.

Whatever. I am done with Mario discussions until he actually gets to play a few games.

drunkcookie
08-25-2011, 09:43 AM
Do u even watch the games? im asking seriously b/c some of the crap you're spewing in here tells me that u dont. I mean really, you're bagging on this dude b/c he didn't intercept a ball while a 300 lber was trying to roll into his knee? Really? It wasnt enough for u that the guy blew up the play? Ridiculous.



Have to correct you here... just re-watched that play and remembered it had been discussed on this thread... the 300lber was actually rolling into Mario's upper-leg area, not his knees... it's important because Mario was leaning back in to catch the ball, and his left elbow was about even with his upper-leg... So, not only did Mario have his lower body taken out on that play, his left arm was pushed along with it... that makes it even more stupid that someone would complain he didn't come up with that INT... What, he didn't come across his body with his right arm to one-hand grab the ball?

DocBar
08-25-2011, 07:12 PM
Yeah I did. Yes statements like yours above are f$%king stupid. AJ is now the virtually undisputed best WR in the NFL. That's a ridiculous standard for premiere player. That's like saying Philip Rivers can't be a premiere player because he isn't as good as Peyton Manning. And Mario is spoken of outside of Houston because his play has been top tier and one of the most complete DE's in the league and because apparently the rest of the league and commentators aren't as brain dead as many Houston fans.
Whatever. I am done with Mario discussions until he actually gets to play a few games.You're wrong on this. MW is spoken of because he's the only player people know, and that's because of draft position. I work all over the country and talk NFL football everywhere I go. People know AJ, Schaub and MW, universally. Get any deeper than that, they are clueless. We have a much netter eye on our talent than anyone else in the US.

80tothezone
08-25-2011, 07:59 PM
To me it is not really about Mario's at the position ..... it is really about whatever makes our defense better.... personally I think if philly would give us Samuel (a ball hawkin cb) for Mario why not do it .... reed will be better than good as a olb and Samuel will be an awesome #2 cb for us.... I understand there is a learning curve but why go through three regular season games hoping Mario gets it when u can make ur defense better right now with a trade and free up cap room and possibly get a couple draft picks in the process

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk

Rey
08-25-2011, 08:49 PM
You're wrong on this. MW is spoken of because he's the only player people know, and that's because of draft position. I work all over the country and talk NFL football everywhere I go. People know AJ, Schaub and MW, universally. Get any deeper than that, they are clueless. We have a much netter eye on our talent than anyone else in the US.

I dunno about that.

I've seen many fans of other teams say they wanted Mario. I lurk a lot of other teams boards and when we announced we were going to a 34 I saw a lot of people proposing trades to get him.

My brother is a colts fan and he always rags on the texans. But he recognizes Mario as a good player.

Lucky
08-25-2011, 10:17 PM
I work all over the country and talk NFL football everywhere I go. People know AJ, Schaub and MW, universally. Get any deeper than that, they are clueless.

You're awful comfortable telling others that they don't know what they're talking about. Take a good look in the mirror. You have no more of a clue on this than anyone else.
:kitten:

First Mario was underrated by the national media and fans in general, and considered inferior to Bush and Vince. Now, he's overrated by the national media and fans, and erroneously labeled a blue chipper.

It's not easy being Mario. :mariopalm: