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badboy
08-18-2011, 08:46 AM
Mods may merge this with "is this Texans year" and I almost posted this there. I think it may be a bit different so we will see.

1st, I want to say I was a big fan and defender of Kubiak for years but he pretty much lost me last season. Bringing Phillips aboard who has a tremendous draft and free agency signing period. SMith may have pulled in some UDFA also (Braman for one).

If Gary (as an offensive coordinator) can keep the O reving and scoring and nothing suggest yet he cannot (ok first pre-season game starters looked rusty) AND Wade's D does what he has historically shown, Texans should be in playoffs and go beyond first round.

*Note that Robert McNair surprised many with the approach this off season getting Manning and Joseph. If Texans win but Gary (as a head coach) looks unsure or makes several poor calls; will McNair go looking?

badboy
08-18-2011, 08:56 AM
This thread could closely follow the earlier one I posted asking if Kubiak could be NFL Coach of Year. For those unaware, I queried if Texan go deep in play offs could Gary win the award that is based on the past season not previous ones.

As of now, I think if team wins 10 games the owner will proudly point to his wise choice of head coach.

Corrosion
08-18-2011, 09:00 AM
Mods may merge this with "is this Texans year" and I almost posted this there. I think it may be a bit different so we will see.

1st, I want to say I was a big fan and defender of Kubiak for years but he pretty much lost me last season. Bringing Phillips aboard who has a tremendous draft and free agency signing period. SMith may have pulled in some UDFA also (Braman for one).

If Gary (as an offensive coordinator) can keep the O reving and scoring and nothing suggest yet he cannot (ok first pre-season game starters looked rusty) AND Wade's D does what he has historically shown, Texans should be in playoffs and go beyond first round.

*Note that Robert McNair surprised many with the approach this off season getting Manning and Joseph. If Texans win but Gary (as a head coach) looks unsure or makes several poor calls; will McNair go looking?

Highly doubtful that Kubiak goes anywhere if this team makes the playoffs or finishes with a 10-6 or better record.

Gary is McNairs guy ..... He has a lot of faith in him and the fact that he is still here after last season should tell you that.

Last years defensive failures are more the fault of GM Rick Smith not fixing the back end. He left Kubiak with a bunch of kids in the secondary and blew the pick on KJ to boot .... Gary did and said what he had to do under the circumstances.

Point blank , no one in the NFL holds himself more accountable than Gary ....

badboy
08-18-2011, 09:35 AM
Highly doubtful that Kubiak goes anywhere if this team makes the playoffs or finishes with a 10-6 or better record.

Gary is McNairs guy ..... He has a lot of faith in him and the fact that he is still here after last season should tell you that.

Last years defensive failures are more the fault of GM Rick Smith not fixing the back end. He left Kubiak with a bunch of kids in the secondary and blew the pick on KJ to boot .... Gary did and said what he had to do under the circumstances.

Point blank , no one in the NFL holds himself more accountable than Gary ....

The bolded eventually irritated many fans and was discussed on this MB as Kubiak kept repeating "it was on" him. Do you think he will change that approach? Not the being accountable but voicing it with no plan on how to be better.

steelbtexan
08-18-2011, 09:44 AM
There has been no accountability within the Texans organization as far as the on the field product goes. Otherwise Gary would've been fired after the 2009 season. (The 2nd yr that Gary/BOBBY said this is the yr the team was going to make the playoffs)

Hopefully this will change this yr. But they are going to have to prove it on the field.

To answer your question, no I dont believe the Texans can win a SB with Gary as HC. Of course the Colts won one in spite of Dungy. So I guess anything is possible.

Ole Miss Texan
08-18-2011, 09:48 AM
The bolded eventually irritated many fans and was discussed on this MB as Kubiak kept repeating "it was on" him. Do you think he will change that approach? Not the being accountable but voicing it with no plan on how to be better.

I'd like to add two things that I've spoken with a player on defense about (names will not be disclosed).

1. The softness issue - I've historically been on the fence with the 'team softness' issue. From what was said, most of the players on this team play hard, hit hard and are not "soft". There were a couple last year that did not play like they were focused every single day on winning the superbowl. What this team lacked last year was not the physical toughness... they weren't soft in that regard... it was the killer instinct/the mental toughness. Having the mental attitude to crush your opponent every snap of the game and never let up. Some players are not on this team anymore because of that. We've added several integral pieces that enbody this quality. MENTAL TOUGHNESS.

2. Kubiak - Gary is not the same coach in the locker room as he is in front of the public camera. Don't be fooled that he is soft on players or does not hold them accountable. He deeply cares about his players but don't mistake that for softness.

Thorn
08-18-2011, 09:53 AM
I do not know what is wrong with the Texans, but something is. And whatever that something actually is, I blame the head coach and GM for it. We are in our 10th year now and the best we have to show for that is ONCE the team was 9-7. Once.

houstonspartan
08-18-2011, 10:00 AM
Highly doubtful that Kubiak goes anywhere if this team makes the playoffs or finishes with a 10-6 or better record.

Gary is McNairs guy ..... He has a lot of faith in him and the fact that he is still here after last season should tell you that.

Last years defensive failures are more the fault of GM Rick Smith not fixing the back end. He left Kubiak with a bunch of kids in the secondary and blew the pick on KJ to boot .... Gary did and said what he had to do under the circumstances.

Point blank , no one in the NFL holds himself more accountable than Gary ....

Just...wow.

Guess Gary get's off totally free then. Nothing is his fault. Ever. Never mind the defensive coordinator HE HIRED (this third in five years, btw).

Look, people, the NFL is designed to turn around teams in four, maybe five years. By "turn around" I mean taking a terrible team and getting them into the playoffs. Despite what you guys think, it is do-able.

At SOME point, someone is going to have to look at the fact that we've changed a) offensive coordinators, b) defensive coordinators, c) quarterbacks, d) various assistant coaches and realize that we need to take a firm look at the person who is the head coach.

At some point, something has to give. Gary just can't continue giving McNair excuses and firing people. Someone has to look at his job performance at some point.

GlassHalfFull
08-18-2011, 10:06 AM
Mods may merge this with "is this Texans year" and I almost posted this there. I think it may be a bit different so we will see.

1st, I want to say I was a big fan and defender of Kubiak for years but he pretty much lost me last season. Bringing Phillips aboard who has a tremendous draft and free agency signing period. SMith may have pulled in some UDFA also (Braman for one).

If Gary (as an offensive coordinator) can keep the O reving and scoring and nothing suggest yet he cannot (ok first pre-season game starters looked rusty) AND Wade's D does what he has historically shown, Texans should be in playoffs and go beyond first round.

*Note that Robert McNair surprised many with the approach this off season getting Manning and Joseph. If Texans win but Gary (as a head coach) looks unsure or makes several poor calls; will McNair go looking?

I hate these IF, IF types of threads. Let's play some real games before we start all the speculating and the if, if stuff. It is going to be what it is. I am excited about Sept. 11 arriving and getting to go to the games and see how the season unfolds. We are undefeated, baby. LOL. Enjoy it.

Just...wow.

Guess Gary get's off totally free then. Nothing is his fault. Ever. Never mind the defensive coordinator HE HIRED (this third in five years, btw).

Look, people, the NFL is designed to turn around teams in four, maybe five years. By "turn around" I mean taking a terrible team and getting them into the playoffs. Despite what you guys think, it is do-able.

At SOME point, someone is going to have to look at the fact that we've changed a) offensive coordinators, b) defensive coordinators, c) quarterbacks, d) various assistant coaches and realize that we need to take a firm look at the person who is the head coach.

At some point, something has to give. Gary just can't continue giving McNair excuses and firing people. Someone has to look at his job performance at some point.

I don't think there is any doubt that Gary's job is on the line this year. He needs to put a quality, focused product on the field week after week. Can he do it? I don't know. But I am rooting for him to succeed, not fail.

houstonspartan
08-18-2011, 10:12 AM
I hate these IF, IF types of threads. Let's play some real games before we start all the speculating and the if, if stuff. It is going to be what it is. I am excited about Sept. 11 arriving and getting to go to the games and see how the season unfolds. We are undefeated, baby. LOL. Enjoy it.



I don't think there is any doubt that Gary's job is on the line this year. He needs to put a quality, focused product on the field week after week. Can he do it? I don't know. But I am rooting for him to succeed, not fail.

I am rooting for the TEAM to succeed. The Texans as a team is more important than Gary, the coach.

Are we sure his job is on the line? It appears that they do have a sense of strong urgency, based on their moves in free agency. But a fear that the "lockout" excuse is waiting in the wings, ready to be used to justify another poor showing.

I don't want to get into a long, protracted Gary Kubiak debate. There are enough of those threads on there, and all they do is get repetitive. I'm just saying we have to keep the big picture in mind, and remember that this guy has had enough time and resources to do his job.

GlassHalfFull
08-18-2011, 10:21 AM
I am rooting for the TEAM to succeed. The Texans as a team is more important than Gary, the coach.

Are we sure his job is on the line? It appears that they do have a sense of strong urgency, based on their moves in free agency. But a fear that the "lockout" excuse is waiting in the wings, ready to be used to justify another poor showing.

I don't want to get into a long, protracted Gary Kubiak debate. There are enough of those threads on there, and all they do is get repetitive. I'm just saying we have to keep the big picture in mind, and remember that this guy has had enough time and resources to do his job.

The team is my priority also, I just am not separating the two at this point.

As far as are we sure, if by we you mean the message board, who knows. There are as many opinions on here are there are posters. I am sure. But what do I know? Nada. Just a fan. And I agree that the last thing we need is another Gary debate. I thought twice before posting in here at all, broke my normal policy of ignoring these types of threads. Should have gone with my first instinct.

The Pencil Neck
08-18-2011, 10:43 AM
A lot of teams have won in situations where the head coach was more involved in one side of the ball than the other. The key is getting into a situation where the DC on the other side of the ball is able to hold up his end.

With the Buccaneers, as long as Dungy was there, they were going to have problems because all the focus was on the defensive side of the ball. When Dungy left, you got into a situation where it was Gruden vs. Kiffen and that turned into a Super Bowl even if it didn't last long.

With the Ravens, Billick was the offense guy and the defense was its own thing. Billick was never able to recreate the offensive juggernaut he'd built in Minnesota but at least he was able to put up enough points and stay out of the defense's way to let it do what it did.

With the Saints, Payton needed to have the good DC to offset his offensive mnd. With the Colts, Dungy was more of a defensive guy and left the offense to Peyton and Moore.

Hopefully, now that we've got Wade, we can get into that same sort of split and attain the same sort of balance.

Can we win big with Kubiak as the HC and him concentrating more on the offense? Definitely. It's been done before and it will be done again.

Will we? I have my doubts.

Corrosion
08-18-2011, 10:45 AM
2. Kubiak - Gary is not the same coach in the locker room as he is in front of the public camera. Don't be fooled that he is soft on players or does not hold them accountable. He deeply cares about his players but don't mistake that for softness.

Im not sure you know how truthful that statement is .... Good post.

The fact that Gary deflects attention away from his players in front of the media is one thing. Notice this team has no media circus surrounding it - Thats because they keep it in house. You want circus sideshow .... watch the Jets ....
Thats what the average fan doesnt see which might give them the idea Gary is soft .... Close the door behind you on the way into that mans office and the Mr Niceguy suddenly left the building.

badboy
08-18-2011, 10:47 AM
Just...wow.

Guess Gary get's off totally free then. Nothing is his fault. Ever. Never mind the defensive coordinator HE HIRED (this third in five years, btw).

Look, people, the NFL is designed to turn around teams in four, maybe five years. By "turn around" I mean taking a terrible team and getting them into the playoffs. Despite what you guys think, it is do-able.

At SOME point, someone is going to have to look at the fact that we've changed a) offensive coordinators, b) defensive coordinators, c) quarterbacks, d) various assistant coaches and realize that we need to take a firm look at the person who is the head coach.

At some point, something has to give. Gary just can't continue giving McNair excuses and firing people. Someone has to look at his job performance at some point.Yes but if the team wins consistently, will anyone including McNair insist on improving the head coach position?

badboy
08-18-2011, 10:50 AM
I hate these IF, IF types of threads. Let's play some real games before we start all the speculating and the if, if stuff. It is going to be what it is. I am excited about Sept. 11 arriving and getting to go to the games and see how the season unfolds. We are undefeated, baby. LOL. Enjoy it.



I don't think there is any doubt that Gary's job is on the line this year. He needs to put a quality, focused product on the field week after week. Can he do it? I don't know. But I am rooting for him to succeed, not fail.So you're only concerned about W-L column and care nothing about the players, coaches, scouts, trainers or owner or how the wins are achieved?

Double Barrel
08-18-2011, 11:19 AM
So you're only concerned about W-L column and care nothing about the players, coaches, scouts, trainers or owner or how the wins are achieved?

At the end of the day, my friend, scoreboard is the only stat that really matters.

Most of y'all know that I've been hard on Gary, and I did not think he either earned or deserved to be retained in 2011. However, due to the obvious implications of the lockout and implementing a brand new staff overhaul, I can understand McNair's logic in keeping him for another season.

In spite of my own reservations about Gary as HC, I am as optimistic this season as I have been in a long time. If that optimism is misplaced, then what can I say? But, I see things that allow me to have hope, including the addition of Wade and quite a few defensive players that have the potential to really give us a defense that can defend leads and even win some games. And let's face it, Gary has a great offense.

Besides, we're fans! Short for fanatic, we are the reason why they play this game! If we can't get excited about a new season, and must continually blast the team for sins of the past, then what is the point? All teams are 0-0 right now, so anything is possible. We can debate probabilities, and we will, but we cannot deny that we have as good a shot of seeing something wonderful happen this season as any other season in our 10 year history.

So if I can do it, Texans faithful, so can you! Take the leap!! :texflag:

texas838
08-18-2011, 11:39 AM
Coach is getting fired if they don't make the playoffs this year. They are way too talented not to.

gary
08-18-2011, 11:45 AM
I am just in wait and see mode which means not too high and not too low right now.

GlassHalfFull
08-18-2011, 12:57 PM
So you're only concerned about W-L column and care nothing about the players, coaches, scouts, trainers or owner or how the wins are achieved?

Interesting extrapolation from what I have posted so far. But since you cared enough to ask, I will care enough to answer. Sadly, my answer will be long, involved and off point. However, I promise I will get to the point eventually.

If you care to remember (hehehe, see what I did there), I was objecting to the word IF in the original post and the subsequent theoretical out comings that may or may not ever come to pass.

My life philosophy is not to worry about the IFs, to me ifs and coulda's or shoulda's are counterproductive and a waste of my time and energy. I take care of what I have control of, worry about what is in my power to influence, and leave the rest to a higher power.

As I extrapolate that philosophy to my football fandom, I get frustrated by threads that seem overly speculative. To me, they are counterproductive and a waste of my time and energy. In the future I will stay out of these threads and stay in the threads that I enjoy and find informative. This has been an especially long difficult offseason, between our disappointing production on the field and the lockout. I am ready and anxious to move forward to the games and the resulting football discussions. I learn a lot reading the football discussion threads here. There is an amazing amount of football knowledge and news posted here. I find TexansTalk my best source for news and information. I don't necessarily post much in the football threads, but I do read pretty much every word.

Now back to your original accusation that I care nothing about the players, coaches........and how the win is achieved. If that is how you need to interpret my writings, more power to you. I actually care quite a bit about the players, coaches and team as a whole. I just do not believe that any postings of mine on an internet message board will have any effect on the above.

Thorn
08-18-2011, 01:21 PM
GlassHalfFull is far to reasonable and logical to be a poster on this board. :lol:

prostock101
08-18-2011, 03:02 PM
Did anyone watch Coach on the sidelines Monday night. He honestly looked different. JMO but his expression was more intent and he almost looked mad. The other noticeable difference is his calling out players in public to get their ass back on the field. Tate and Cushing for example. I cannot remember him ever doing that. He is definitely different this year.

2slik4u
08-18-2011, 03:25 PM
I do not know what is wrong with the Texans, but something is. And whatever that something actually is, I blame the head coach and GM for it. We are in our 10th year now and the best we have to show for that is ONCE the team was 9-7. Once.

At what point does that blame start heading toward the owner? He's the one who signs the checks. He hired Rick Smith. He hired Kubiak.

But when a crappy product is continually put on the field year in and year out, you have to start looking at the real root of the cause.

Its not like we kicked ass with Casserly and Capers....

badboy
08-18-2011, 03:30 PM
Interesting extrapolation from what I have posted so far. But since you cared enough to ask, I will care enough to answer. Sadly, my answer will be long, involved and off point. However, I promise I will get to the point eventually.

If you care to remember (hehehe, see what I did there), I was objecting to the word IF in the original post and the subsequent theoretical out comings that may or may not ever come to pass.

My life philosophy is not to worry about the IFs, to me ifs and coulda's or shoulda's are counterproductive and a waste of my time and energy. I take care of what I have control of, worry about what is in my power to influence, and leave the rest to a higher power.

As I extrapolate that philosophy to my football fandom, I get frustrated by threads that seem overly speculative. To me, they are counterproductive and a waste of my time and energy. In the future I will stay out of these threads and stay in the threads that I enjoy and find informative. This has been an especially long difficult offseason, between our disappointing production on the field and the lockout. I am ready and anxious to move forward to the games and the resulting football discussions. I learn a lot reading the football discussion threads here. There is an amazing amount of football knowledge and news posted here. I find TexansTalk my best source for news and information. I don't necessarily post much in the football threads, but I do read pretty much every word.

Now back to your original accusation that I care nothing about the players, coaches........and how the win is achieved. If that is how you need to interpret my writings, more power to you. I actually care quite a bit about the players, coaches and team as a whole. I just do not believe that any postings of mine on an internet message board will have any effect on the above.When I read this post, the word coming to mind was "fatalist". What will be will be. I describe myself as a dreamer with a dose of reality thrown in especially as I have become older.
I don't need to interpret your writings. I am simply trying to draw you into saying more about the subject. It gives me a more rounded understanding of people on this board when we have a conversation rather than just an exchange of statements. I do this in my world away from this MB.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda's can change the future IF (see what I did there?) we learn from mistakes. It is possible Kubiak is saying if I woulda called out (insert player of your choice) last season, things coulda been different.

Your opinions probably will not change anything on Texans but they could change me or someone else who reads them. I would like to see you post more in football forum.

The Pencil Neck
08-18-2011, 04:04 PM
At what point does that blame start heading toward the owner? He's the one who signs the checks. He hired Rick Smith. He hired Kubiak.

But when a crappy product is continually put on the field year in and year out, you have to start looking at the real root of the cause.

Its not like we kicked ass with Casserly and Capers....

So you're going to fire the owner? :toropalm:

There are owners out there who are bad, who don't really care. McNair is a good owner. He provides his players with nice facilities and training staff.

He's had 2 coaches and neither one of them was an obviously bad hire. And frankly, you're acting like he's hired a bunch of no-name scrubs who've come in here and taken us to a string of 2-14 seasons.

McNair is trying to be a patient owner, he's trying to model himself and this organization on owners and organizations that have been successful. He's trying to be a hands off owner. I can't see where anyone gets off "blaming" him for anything other than getting us a team.

badboy
08-18-2011, 04:12 PM
So you're going to fire the owner? :toropalm:

There are owners out there who are bad, who don't really care. McNair is a good owner. He provides his players with nice facilities and training staff.

He's had 2 coaches and neither one of them was an obviously bad hire. And frankly, you're acting like he's hired a bunch of no-name scrubs who've come in here and taken us to a string of 2-14 seasons.

McNair is trying to be a patient owner, he's trying to model himself and this organization on owners and organizations that have been successful. He's trying to be a hands off owner. I can't see where anyone gets off "blaming" him for anything other than getting us a team.and even that may become a thing of the past. Hopefully.

Double Barrel
08-18-2011, 04:28 PM
So you're going to fire the owner? :toropalm:

There are owners out there who are bad, who don't really care. McNair is a good owner. He provides his players with nice facilities and training staff.

He's had 2 coaches and neither one of them was an obviously bad hire. And frankly, you're acting like he's hired a bunch of no-name scrubs who've come in here and taken us to a string of 2-14 seasons.

McNair is trying to be a patient owner, he's trying to model himself and this organization on owners and organizations that have been successful. He's trying to be a hands off owner. I can't see where anyone gets off "blaming" him for anything other than getting us a team.

MSR

McNair was a football noob. The other owners probably convinced him to hire Casserly and Capers. They knew, which is why Casserly has not worked for an NFL team since he left the Texans.

The only real "fault" with McNair is his loyalty. And "fault" is a perception thing, because some folks find loyalty to be an admirable trait.

I have no doubt that McNair wants to win. Sure, he's wants to turn a profit. But who runs a team to lose money every year? And besides, what is more profitable than winning?

I just can't blame the guy. He's not a meddling owner like Jerrah or Spud, and I personally see that as a good thing. He's modeled himself to be an owner after his good friend, Robert Kraft. Hire the best people that you think can get the job done within a specified set of parameters (i.e. no troublemakers, etc.)

infantrycak
08-18-2011, 05:01 PM
Did anyone watch Coach on the sidelines Monday night. He honestly looked different. JMO but his expression was more intent and he almost looked mad.

Kubiak has often looked mad and often torn into players on the sidelines. I don't know where this soft stuff comes from other than how he does news conferences. I have seen him drop f bombs, spittle flying on many an occasion. Just because it isn't on TV doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Heck Sage was reported to have gone to Kubiak and asked that he not be so hard on him.

Yes his normal demeanor on the sideline is calm. But he goes from calm to pissed off in about .1 seconds and he lights players and refs up.

The Pencil Neck
08-18-2011, 05:36 PM
The other owners probably convinced him to hire Casserly and Capers. They knew, which is why Casserly has not worked for an NFL team since he left the Texans.

I can't fault him Capers. Casserly, ok. But Capers? Capers won Coach of the Year with the Panthers and took a second year Panthers club to the NFC Championship game. I can't fault him hiring Capers.

fikster
08-18-2011, 09:18 PM
Maybe I am conspiracy theorist but when I heard McNair on 610 last week he said something very interesting, in regards to coaching. He statement eluded to getting rid of a coach and having to start all over again when there wasn't a coach already on the staff with HC experience. It seemed to me that he was worried about pulling the trigger before because he didn't have a Wade "type " on his staff. Now that he does, I don't think he will be hesitant .

prostock101
08-18-2011, 09:29 PM
Speaking of Capers, the media slobbered all over themselves about how great a hire he was. Certainly seems as a DC he's done very well since he left here.

As far as Kubiak goes, I still think he sounds different during interviews when discussing players. I cannot remember him ever making a negative comment about one and he's definitely doing it now. On both Tate and Cushing he was on their butts about getting on the field and how displeased he was that they weren't.

2slik4u
08-19-2011, 09:06 AM
So you're going to fire the owner? :toropalm:

There are owners out there who are bad, who don't really care. McNair is a good owner. He provides his players with nice facilities and training staff.

He's had 2 coaches and neither one of them was an obviously bad hire. And frankly, you're acting like he's hired a bunch of no-name scrubs who've come in here and taken us to a string of 2-14 seasons.

McNair is trying to be a patient owner, he's trying to model himself and this organization on owners and organizations that have been successful. He's trying to be a hands off owner. I can't see where anyone gets off "blaming" him for anything other than getting us a team.

For the record, Im Pro-Kubiak, Pro-Smith, and Pro-Mcnair. Im just saying, if a car dealership doesnt sells the required number of cars for a decade but keeps hiring new salesmen, do you just keep hiring new salesmen to fix the cause?

Im not an ***** and Im not saying that we "fire" the owner as you and I both know that isnt possible. Im just saying, as some point the "boss man" needs to share some responsibility as he is the ultimate decision maker.

I know in my line of work (custom home building), if I keep putting out a crappy product and keep firing my trades and vendors and re-hiring new ones then my managers will start looking at me as the one doing the faulty hiring.

Just playing devil's advocate here and bringing up another discussion point (as if we have not ran any of these points into the ground as late).

The Pencil Neck
08-19-2011, 09:46 AM
For the record, Im Pro-Kubiak, Pro-Smith, and Pro-Mcnair. Im just saying, if a car dealership doesnt sells the required number of cars for a decade but keeps hiring new salesmen, do you just keep hiring new salesmen to fix the cause?

Im not an ***** and Im not saying that we "fire" the owner as you and I both know that isnt possible. Im just saying, as some point the "boss man" needs to share some responsibility as he is the ultimate decision maker.

I know in my line of work (custom home building), if I keep putting out a crappy product and keep firing my trades and vendors and re-hiring new ones then my managers will start looking at me as the one doing the faulty hiring.

Just playing devil's advocate here and bringing up another discussion point (as if we have not ran any of these points into the ground as late).

I wasn't saying you were an *****. I was using hyperbole to show the problem with the logic.

There are some owners that really don't care. They can lose and they're perfectly happy with that. They don't provide good facilities for their players and they want to minimize the outlay of cash for the team. Bob's not one of these guys.

There are some owners that just want to "play" at football. They want to win but in many ways, it's more about them getting to be involved in the process of football. Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder fall into this category.

Bob's trying. Bob's biggest fault is that he's patient. He's taken a look at certain franchises (most notably the Steelers) and he's tried to model himself and his owning style on that team. The hallmark of that team is continuity. It's a team that builds itself through the draft, doesn't make a lot of big flashes in FA, and doesn't fire coaches very often.

Is Bob the problem? He, himself, is not the problem but his strategy and approach to the game may be. He hires people that he trusts and he puts this into their hands. He allows people to do their job. And I think that's a good thing.

A lot of us, myself included, would have pulled the trigger earlier than Bob has on Kubiak. Bob might end up being right.

But whatever happens, I'm not blaming Bob for anything. He's trying to build a winner. He's not cheap. He's trying to do the right thing. Over time, he learns from his mistakes. So I wouldn't go after Bob. And I get somewhat tired of people talking about how Bob is a problem. He gets blamed for some things by some people incorrectly, I think.

2slik4u
08-19-2011, 10:12 AM
I wasn't saying you were an *****. I was using hyperbole to show the problem with the logic.

There are some owners that really don't care. They can lose and they're perfectly happy with that. They don't provide good facilities for their players and they want to minimize the outlay of cash for the team. Bob's not one of these guys.

There are some owners that just want to "play" at football. They want to win but in many ways, it's more about them getting to be involved in the process of football. Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder fall into this category.

Bob's trying. Bob's biggest fault is that he's patient. He's taken a look at certain franchises (most notably the Steelers) and he's tried to model himself and his owning style on that team. The hallmark of that team is continuity. It's a team that builds itself through the draft, doesn't make a lot of big flashes in FA, and doesn't fire coaches very often.

Is Bob the problem? He, himself, is not the problem but his strategy and approach to the game may be. He hires people that he trusts and he puts this into their hands. He allows people to do their job. And I think that's a good thing.

A lot of us, myself included, would have pulled the trigger earlier than Bob has on Kubiak. Bob might end up being right.

But whatever happens, I'm not blaming Bob for anything. He's trying to build a winner. He's not cheap. He's trying to do the right thing. Over time, he learns from his mistakes. So I wouldn't go after Bob. And I get somewhat tired of people talking about how Bob is a problem. He gets blamed for some things by some people incorrectly, I think.

Believe it or not, I dont see as a problem at all. You could put me in as a "sunshiner" or whatever it is some of these guys call it. Im not happy with the results of our franchise as of yet, but I am happy and with the direction we have been heading since Kubiak has taken over. I do believe it takes a few years to instill a system before it starts paying off. Case in point; the ZBS. I may get blasted by this but overall, when he continually puts one of the best offenses on the field year in and year out, things will start falling into place.

I do agree with the method and mold that Bob is following BUT if Kubiak fails yet again, and again another year but Bob keeps him around, would you STILL be blaming Kubiak or would that shift to Ol' Bob? I mean, if your boss keeps paying you to do a crappy job and everyone sees and notices the final product as being subpar, people would start blaming the head cheese instead of you.

I am ecstatic about football being back and just like every year, I think our Texans have the talent to take it all the way. Unfortunately I have been disappointed every year. Once again, I think this is the best squad we have fielded and see us going to the AFC championship game and I would be disappointed if we didnt.

Go Texans. Good debate.

gary
08-19-2011, 10:43 AM
What would Dom do with this team? A much better offense with Shaub light years ahead of Carr and a much better O line. The list goes on how much this team has improved on both sides of the football since Dom was let go. McNair does spend money but I would like to see him spend a little more wisely on free agents who are in their prime and not on their way out of the league. Gary Kubiak is a great person and I hope this is a good year for him and the team but I am not going to predict anything this year it is what it is.

The Pencil Neck
08-19-2011, 10:51 AM
I do agree with the method and mold that Bob is following BUT if Kubiak fails yet again, and again another year but Bob keeps him around, would you STILL be blaming Kubiak or would that shift to Ol' Bob? I mean, if your boss keeps paying you to do a crappy job and everyone sees and notices the final product as being subpar, people would start blaming the head cheese instead of you.

There are guys here who do blame Bob. There are guys here who would have fired Kubiak after his second year because they believe that's more than enough time to put a "real" team together and get it to the playoffs. There were guys pulling for Kubiak to get fired after his 9 win season.

Everybody has to make their own determination on how much patience they're going to have. I would have pulled the plug after last year -- not because I think that Kubiak can't put together a winner here but because he had plenty of time to get it together and couldn't get it done.

If Bob continues to stick with Kubiak even if we don't start winning, then we -- as fans -- have to make some sort of decision on what we're going to do to show our dislike of that. The only power we have as fans is to stop going to games and to stop talking about the team and to walk away until a change is made. That's all we've got. And each one of us has to determine when the team has crossed the line and we're going to start ignoring the team. Right now, this team is way too popular and making way too much money for Bob to have any incentive to radically change what he's doing... although I do think we saw a change in strategy this offseason.

badboy
08-19-2011, 11:00 AM
The DC has changed and I doubt that had little to do with Gary but rather McNair being fed up with lack of progress on that side of ball. I am certain Bob is sold that Phillips can turn defense around immediately. I think Texans can win without a head coach.

Thorn
08-19-2011, 11:06 AM
You know, it would really be nice if the Texans were to have a good year and make the playoffs. Maybe then we could quit arguing about all this.

badboy
08-19-2011, 11:19 AM
You know, it would really be nice if the Texans were to have a good year and make the playoffs. Maybe then we could quit arguing about all this.Why can not folks disagree on things and talk about them? Sometimes the interest and fun is in the debate and not necessarily reaching a resolution.

Scooter
08-19-2011, 11:26 AM
edit.

Thorn
08-19-2011, 11:31 AM
Why can not folks disagree on things and talk about them? Sometimes the interest and fun is in the debate and not necessarily reaching a resolution.

You right, but I'd rather be arguing about who's starting at DE in our first playoff game than this stuff. We've aruged it to death over the last few years.:gun:

badboy
08-19-2011, 11:41 AM
You right, but I'd rather be arguing about who's starting at DE in our first playoff game than this stuff. We've aruged it to death over the last few years.:gun:WHo are your DEs? :breakdance:

Thorn
08-19-2011, 11:42 AM
WHo are your DEs? :breakdance:

Da BRAman and some other guy. :lol:

El Tejano
08-19-2011, 12:38 PM
To answer the threads question...I don't know. I assume they'd have to have some sort of coach on the sidelines.

ObsiWan
08-19-2011, 12:44 PM
Interesting extrapolation from what I have posted so far. But since you cared enough to ask, I will care enough to answer. Sadly, my answer will be long, involved and off point. However, I promise I will get to the point eventually.

If you care to remember (hehehe, see what I did there), I was objecting to the word IF in the original post and the subsequent theoretical out comings that may or may not ever come to pass.

My life philosophy is not to worry about the IFs, to me ifs and coulda's or shoulda's are counterproductive and a waste of my time and energy. I take care of what I have control of, worry about what is in my power to influence, and leave the rest to a higher power.

As I extrapolate that philosophy to my football fandom, I get frustrated by threads that seem overly speculative. To me, they are counterproductive and a waste of my time and energy. In the future I will stay out of these threads and stay in the threads that I enjoy and find informative. This has been an especially long difficult offseason, between our disappointing production on the field and the lockout. I am ready and anxious to move forward to the games and the resulting football discussions. I learn a lot reading the football discussion threads here. There is an amazing amount of football knowledge and news posted here. I find TexansTalk my best source for news and information. I don't necessarily post much in the football threads, but I do read pretty much every word.

Now back to your original accusation that I care nothing about the players, coaches........and how the win is achieved. If that is how you need to interpret my writings, more power to you. I actually care quite a bit about the players, coaches and team as a whole. I just do not believe that any postings of mine on an internet message board will have any effect on the above.
Love it.
Repped.

ObsiWan
08-19-2011, 12:56 PM
You know, it would really be nice if the Texans were to have a good year and make the playoffs. Maybe then we could quit arguing about all this.

you're dreaming.
there are folks who would have Smithiak fired next season even if we won the Super Bowl this season.

ObsiWan
08-19-2011, 01:00 PM
Why can not folks disagree on things and talk about them? Sometimes the interest and fun is in the debate and not necessarily reaching a resolution.

That would be interesting and maybe even entertaining except that folks tend to get emotionally involved with their particular position and start insulting folks with opposing viewpoints. Then the bars of soap come out...
Then the next thing you know negative reps start flying, folks take sides... Start calling us Sunshine Clubbers (oh wait, I am one :))

At that point it stops being fun so I back away from the keyboard and find something else to do.

Double Barrel
08-19-2011, 02:14 PM
I can't fault him Capers. Casserly, ok. But Capers? Capers won Coach of the Year with the Panthers and took a second year Panthers club to the NFC Championship game. I can't fault him hiring Capers.

yep, I agree. I don't even fault him for hiring Casserly, either. That was my point, the guy was a football noob as an owner, so all he had to go on was resumes and advice from other owners. It's not like there is a manual on how to start an NFL franchise from scratch and make it successful in a specific period of time.

Most folks were excited about Casserly before the first season. His resume with the Redskins gave us a false impression that he knew what he was doing.