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View Full Version : What I saw on the first 15 snaps


b0ng
08-18-2011, 01:22 AM
1st - 10: Mario Lined up at SOLB Watt LDE. 3 step drop Mario bullying RT into backfield, Watt pushing his man backwards as well.
2nd - 5 : Run play to Smith/Barwin side
1st - 10: (ESPN Coverage sucks BTW, this play was already snapped when the actual play came back into view on the tv but. Watt looks like he's pushing his man really far into the pocket and Mario was working on the same side as Smith. Barwin was covering RB. Screen pass to RB, pickup of 5.
2nd - 5 : Watt beat his man good almost batted the ball middle coverage was nowhere. Mario got stonewalled on his bull rush. 3 step drop again for sanchez
1st - 10: Run towards Mario/Watt side but both those players basically held em in check while Sharpton cleaned up. No gain
2nd - 9 : 3 step drop again for Sanchez. Mario got cut by Fergesun (straight to the knee), Smith got kind of run over to where Mario fell and was ineffective, Barwin didn't make it in enough time before he got the throw off.
3rd - 6 : 4 down lineman. Barwin, Smith, Watt, Mario, Adibi close to the line. They rushed 5 (Adibi extra rusher) Mario went in on a stunt and basically pressure from all sides, Sanchez had no choice.
FG
Grand Total: 7 snaps

next possession
1st - 10: Mario and Barwin switch sides so that Mario is over Smith and Barwin is over Watt. Barwin doesn't quite make it to his position in time before ball is snapped. Bootleg, everybody bites, Sanchez thorws an easy pass that is dropped.
2nd - 10: Barwin on the weakside quite a bit, lot of ILBs bunched up in the middle Mario outside technique. 3 step drop nobody had a shot to get near Sanchez before the throw. Completed
1st - 10: 1 Step out route throw to Jason Allen. One of the DB's had okay coverage and got him down without much YAC. Nothing the DLine could do
2nd - 5 : Infamous draw play that Mario Williams was responsible for as dubbed by ESPN. Suffice to say, I don't think Mario is the one you blame there, ILB's had a shot on him free for a short gain and didn't make the opportunity. Mitchell didn't
do so hot either
1st - 10: Watt gets huge pressure up the middle by beating his man badly, and then Earl Mitchell cleans up. RT handled Mario kept him out of the play.
2nd - 11: Watt and Mario working a lot to gether but it's on the left end. Run towards Barwin/Smith side, offensive penalty repeat down.
2nd - 20: Draw play to Barwin/Smith side. Cleaned up well.
3rd - 13: 4 Down lineman Barwin, Smith, Watt, Mario. Nickel packge. A. Smith encroachment.
3rd - 8 : Tomlinson run, right at Barwin, only good for 3. Punt

Grand Total 9 snaps

Overall I'm not as displeased with Mario's performance and I thought before. Jets just took a lot of 3 step drops and some screens and smokes. Get a better overall thought with Saints.

b0ng
08-18-2011, 01:30 AM
snap of the preseason

beerlover
08-18-2011, 01:49 AM
The Saints should be a much better measuring stick. Remember last year when the Texans played them I dropped my expectations which turned out to be exactly what happened. Also hope to see how Cameron Jordan is progressing?

Allstar
08-18-2011, 02:46 AM
Nice analysis. Must spread rep. Just FYI, I'm rewatching right now and I don't believe Mario ever lined up at SOLB. Don't know where you got that idea, not that it really matters anyways.

kiwitexansfan
08-18-2011, 04:07 AM
Sounds like a measured, knowledgeable take.

You sure you're on the right message board?

Wolf6151
08-18-2011, 05:31 AM
Bong, nice analysis. Thanks. Like you, I now feel a little better about Mario's performance. Please do the same analysis after the N.O. game.

El Tejano
08-18-2011, 05:46 AM
Wade saying that they didn't dial up one blitz makes me feel they aren't going to show everything they are going to do with Mario.

ObsiWan
08-18-2011, 07:00 AM
Nice analysis. Must spread rep. Just FYI, I'm rewatching right now and I don't believe Mario ever lined up at SOLB. Don't know where you got that idea, not that it really matters anyways.
I got him.
Agreed, very fair assessment. If there was any sub-par play (and that's probably too harsh a word for preseason game #1) it was with the ILBs and maybe the DTs. No one ran wide around Barwin or Mario. And the Fat Man dialed up quick hitters for Sanchez to execute because he knew his O-line was no match for our rush. Seven sacks (should have been nine if the 3rd stringers would wrap up) says it all.

b0ng
08-18-2011, 07:15 AM
Nice analysis. Must spread rep. Just FYI, I'm rewatching right now and I don't believe Mario ever lined up at SOLB. Don't know where you got that idea, not that it really matters anyways.

I swear to you, no BS, that Mario and Watt spent a lot of time over on the Jets right side of the line (Which is why I called it the SOLB spot). He did switch sides, no doubt a few snaps, but him and Watt were lined up it seemed like over the RT/RG more often than not, which was fairly surprising to me.

I honestly expected to see Mario and Watt lining up both almost exclusively to challenge the Jets left side of the line, but that happened on maybe a few snaps and that was it. I know there were a few plays where Mario didn't do much in rushing the passer but there were other plays I thought where if it was a longer step drop to let routes develop he would have gotten there no problem.

All in all the Jets passing game against the 1st stringers was pretty much all dink and dunk which is tough to get sacks when they run those sort of plays. I know the feeling around what a lot of people saw is that Mario isn't cut out to be an OLB, but honestly, to me he looked like a guy who can handle those duties, judging by his first action.

This whole "trade Mario" thing should probably cool it's heels until we see him getting beaten one on one more. If we get another set of dink and dunk plays it's going to be much more on our ILB's and secondary to punish those receivers running short routes.

b0ng
08-18-2011, 07:41 AM
Nice analysis. Must spread rep. Just FYI, I'm rewatching right now and I don't believe Mario ever lined up at SOLB. Don't know where you got that idea, not that it really matters anyways.

I looked at it like this:

Either the Texans DLine and OLBs were playing in opposite spots of where they normally will play, but on my screen going from bottom to top it was usually Mario/Watt on the bottom side while Antonio and Barwin were on the top side of the screen. If I'm Sanchez, I saw Watt/Mario almost exclusively coming from my right side, and Barwin/Smith coming on my left. To me that looked like Barwin played a lot more WOLB than Mario did in these 15 preseason snaps.

IDEXAN
08-18-2011, 07:41 AM
I can't help but imagine how much more effective and potent this 3-4 would be if Mario was a DE with either Reed or Braman playing right behind him ?

b0ng
08-18-2011, 08:00 AM
I can't help but imagine how much more effective and potent this 3-4 would be if Mario was a DE with either Reed or Braman playing right behind him ?

I'm not going to say that Mario can't be effective at that spot (And could be a good replacement for Smith who wasn't terribly impressive) but you can tell why Phillips put Mario where he did. With a 3 - 5 second play for route development, I think he's going to give a lot of tackles real problems. Obviously he can work on his speed moves more to improve but he looked like he has the ability to move Tackles around and possibly come off with an array of moves if he develops them. Obviously we need more of a body of work.

It's really hard to judge though because almost every one of the 1st string Jets passing plays were not long developing plays, it was mostly short stuff to whomever was open. In those two drives the Jets did not gain more than 30 - 40 yards of offense total, and had one FG and one punt. Sanchez's high completion % looked more like a product of the throws they were asking him to make, more than anything the Texans D did badly.

Allstar
08-18-2011, 02:51 PM
I swear to you, no BS, that Mario and Watt spent a lot of time over on the Jets right side of the line (Which is why I called it the SOLB spot). He did switch sides, no doubt a few snaps, but him and Watt were lined up it seemed like over the RT/RG more often than not, which was fairly surprising to me.



Just because he lined up on the right didn't mean he was playing SOLB. The offense dictates which side is strong, and which is weak. Mario lined up on the weak side every snap.

Ole Miss Texan
08-18-2011, 03:27 PM
Really great work bong! I was disappointed with all the 3 step drops and quick throws. I understand the Jets doing this with their starting C/G both out. If the Texans can show consistent pressure from the front 7... teams will be forced to make quicker throws. When that happens the DBs HAVE to understand what is going on and play closer to their receivers b/c the ball will come out soon. This also helps out with more batted balls as the QB is closer to the LOS and sWatt can get his hands straight up.

In regards to WOLB vs. SOLB. The strongside has the TE on it, weakside the opposite. Mario will be rushing from the weakside and not have coverage duties. Barwin will be strongside over the TE and may have to drop into coverage, which he did quite a bit game 1. All in all I think CB98 did a decent job at recognizing the play and dropping back, considering its preseason game 1.

BullNation4Life
08-18-2011, 11:28 PM
1st - 10: Mario Lined up at SOLB Watt LDE. 3 step drop Mario bullying RT into backfield, Watt pushing his man backwards as well.
2nd - 5 : Run play to Smith/Barwin side
1st - 10: (ESPN Coverage sucks BTW, this play was already snapped when the actual play came back into view on the tv but. Watt looks like he's pushing his man really far into the pocket and Mario was working on the same side as Smith. Barwin was covering RB. Screen pass to RB, pickup of 5.
2nd - 5 : Watt beat his man good almost batted the ball middle coverage was nowhere. Mario got stonewalled on his bull rush. 3 step drop again for sanchez
1st - 10: Run towards Mario/Watt side but both those players basically held em in check while Sharpton cleaned up. No gain
2nd - 9 : 3 step drop again for Sanchez. Mario got cut by Fergesun (straight to the knee), Smith got kind of run over to where Mario fell and was ineffective, Barwin didn't make it in enough time before he got the throw off.
3rd - 6 : 4 down lineman. Barwin, Smith, Watt, Mario, Adibi close to the line. They rushed 5 (Adibi extra rusher) Mario went in on a stunt and basically pressure from all sides, Sanchez had no choice.
FG
Grand Total: 7 snaps

next possession
1st - 10: Mario and Barwin switch sides so that Mario is over Smith and Barwin is over Watt. Barwin doesn't quite make it to his position in time before ball is snapped. Bootleg, everybody bites, Sanchez thorws an easy pass that is dropped.
2nd - 10: Barwin on the weakside quite a bit, lot of ILBs bunched up in the middle Mario outside technique. 3 step drop nobody had a shot to get near Sanchez before the throw. Completed
1st - 10: 1 Step out route throw to Jason Allen. One of the DB's had okay coverage and got him down without much YAC. Nothing the DLine could do
2nd - 5 : Infamous draw play that Mario Williams was responsible for as dubbed by ESPN. Suffice to say, I don't think Mario is the one you blame there, ILB's had a shot on him free for a short gain and didn't make the opportunity. Mitchell didn't
do so hot either
1st - 10: Watt gets huge pressure up the middle by beating his man badly, and then Earl Mitchell cleans up. RT handled Mario kept him out of the play.
2nd - 11: Watt and Mario working a lot to gether but it's on the left end. Run towards Barwin/Smith side, offensive penalty repeat down.
2nd - 20: Draw play to Barwin/Smith side. Cleaned up well.
3rd - 13: 4 Down lineman Barwin, Smith, Watt, Mario. Nickel packge. A. Smith encroachment.
3rd - 8 : Tomlinson run, right at Barwin, only good for 3. Punt

Grand Total 9 snaps

Overall I'm not as displeased with Mario's performance and I thought before. Jets just took a lot of 3 step drops and some screens and smokes. Get a better overall thought with Saints.

OMG! someone who actually payed attention to the game. ROCK & ROLL!!! Agree with everything you said. Barwin and Mario never really had a chance to get tot he QB cause was taking 3 step drops.

Great analysis....

b0ng
08-18-2011, 11:28 PM
Just because he lined up on the right didn't mean he was playing SOLB. The offense dictates which side is strong, and which is weak. Mario lined up on the weak side every snap.

Well from what I saw it looked like there was always a TE to the same side as Mario/Watt were doing their work. Is Sanchez a lefty?

thunderkyss
08-19-2011, 12:13 AM
I like the analysis fair enogh, thanks bong. But I don't see how this could ease anyone's mind about our 280lb LB.

The question was never his pass rsuh ability, we know he can do that & one of his best games he played standing up quite a bit.

The scary thing about Mario is what are we going to do when the other team tries to force him into coverage by motioning the tight end to his side. We didn't see the Jets try to force the mismatch, s0 the question is still unanswered.

Jackie Chiles
08-19-2011, 12:52 AM
I like the analysis fair enogh, thanks bong. But I don't see how this could ease anyone's mind about our 280lb LB.

The question was never his pass rsuh ability, we know he can do that & one of his best games he played standing up quite a bit.

The scary thing about Mario is what are we going to do when the other team tries to force him into coverage by motioning the tight end to his side. We didn't see the Jets try to force the mismatch, s0 the question is still unanswered.

Your answer:http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-media/videos/Herring-on-Williams-Cushing-3-4-advantages/de8d8813-1be7-4185-8129-6ff80d0682d1

Listen from the 2:50 mark.

The Pencil Neck
08-19-2011, 12:52 AM
I like the analysis fair enogh, thanks bong. But I don't see how this could ease anyone's mind about our 280lb LB.

The question was never his pass rsuh ability, we know he can do that & one of his best games he played standing up quite a bit.

The scary thing about Mario is what are we going to do when the other team tries to force him into coverage by motioning the tight end to his side. We didn't see the Jets try to force the mismatch, s0 the question is still unanswered.

That's pretty much what the Herring videos over on HT.com answered.

The coverage of the TE isn't dictated by which LB lines up over him. If WILL is designated to rush, then he rushes, regardless of what the TE does. Other positions (Mo, FS, SS, and possibly even SAM) will rotate to pick him up.

76Texan
08-19-2011, 01:09 AM
Well from what I saw it looked like there was always a TE to the same side as Mario/Watt were doing their work. Is Sanchez a lefty?

Sanchez is a righty.

Unlike many Texans fans, I'm not concerned about Mario.
I remember at some point during the telecast, when Jaws displayed his concern about Mario at OLB, Gruden quickly calmed him down.
I don't remember the exact words, but basically, Gruden said that you don't need to worry about Mario.
I'm in Gruden's camp on this call.

B0ng, I haven't isolated all the plays (been concentrating on the run plays), I can only tell you that out of the 6 snaps (all run plays), Mario was the WILL 4 times (no TE on his side).
One time, he lined up as the SDE (4-man front).
Another time, it was a 2-TE set.

76Texan
08-19-2011, 01:10 AM
That's pretty much what the Herring videos over on HT.com answered.

The coverage of the TE isn't dictated by which LB lines up over him. If WILL is designated to rush, then he rushes, regardless of what the TE does. Other positions (Mo, FS, SS, and possibly even SAM) will rotate to pick him up.

^^^ This!

Allstar
08-19-2011, 01:16 AM
Well from what I saw it looked like there was always a TE to the same side as Mario/Watt were doing their work. Is Sanchez a lefty?

Are you sure? I didn't see a TE on Mario's side at all.

thunderkyss
08-19-2011, 10:59 AM
Your answer:http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-media/videos/Herring-on-Williams-Cushing-3-4-advantages/de8d8813-1be7-4185-8129-6ff80d0682d1

Listen from the 2:50 mark.



That's pretty much what the Herring videos over on HT.com answered.

The coverage of the TE isn't dictated by which LB lines up over him. If WILL is designated to rush, then he rushes, regardless of what the TE does. Other positions (Mo, FS, SS, and possibly even SAM) will rotate to pick him up.

Oh.. Herring said so in a video.... Well that ends that discussion & we can stop beating the dead horse.

Say that reminds me, isn't there a video of several people saying that Wade has had success (a HOFer, & numerous Pro Bowlers) with light Nose Tackles?

I guess we can put that one to rest as well.

Or we can wait to see if the Saints try to force the mis-match (like the Jets didn't) & see how we respond.

To me, it looks like a regular 4-3 under, with Mario standing up. If the tight-end motions to Mario's side, I wonder if the other three LBs will shift the way they did when we were in the 4-3, where Cushing would back up off the line, Demeco would shift towards the new strong side, & Diles would drop to the line, becoming the SAM.

In our 3-4, I would imagine a similar shift, Connor (or whoever is the SAM) would drop back, Demeco would slide over, as would Cushing who would then be responsible for the TE.

So we're still basically looking at a 4-3 only the backside DE is standing up.

The Pencil Neck
08-19-2011, 11:39 AM
To me, it looks like a regular 4-3 under, with Mario standing up. If the tight-end motions to Mario's side, I wonder if the other three LBs will shift the way they did when we were in the 4-3, where Cushing would back up off the line, Demeco would shift towards the new strong side, & Diles would drop to the line, becoming the SAM.

In our 3-4, I would imagine a similar shift, Connor (or whoever is the SAM) would drop back, Demeco would slide over, as would Cushing who would then be responsible for the TE.

So we're still basically looking at a 4-3 only the backside TE is standing up.

That's what everyone (including guys like Gruden) has been saying. It's a 4-3 under with one of the guys standing. BUT... the offense doesn't know immediately which one is the one standing and which one is the LB. So that, along with the twin safety concept, allows us to disguise our defense more.

The Pencil Neck
08-19-2011, 11:41 AM
Say that reminds me, isn't there a video of several people saying that Wade has had success (a HOFer, & numerous Pro Bowlers) with light Nose Tackles?

I guess we can put that one to rest as well.

You asked a question and people point you to a video where one of the coaches "answers" your question and you get your panties in a wad?

Shall I point you to the post where I said we were beating a dead horse with the light NT thing?

FYI, I didn't like the size of our DTs when we were running a straight 4-3. Why would I like them now that we're in a 3-4 variation that's basically a 4-3 under? BUT... at least I've said we should let it go and watch the freaking games. Damn.

Jackie Chiles
08-19-2011, 12:29 PM
Oh.. Herring said so in a video.... Well that ends that discussion & we can stop beating the dead horse.

Say that reminds me, isn't there a video of several people saying that Wade has had success (a HOFer, & numerous Pro Bowlers) with light Nose Tackles?

I guess we can put that one to rest as well.

Or we can wait to see if the Saints try to force the mis-match (like the Jets didn't) & see how we respond.

To me, it looks like a regular 4-3 under, with Mario standing up. If the tight-end motions to Mario's side, I wonder if the other three LBs will shift the way they did when we were in the 4-3, where Cushing would back up off the line, Demeco would shift towards the new strong side, & Diles would drop to the line, becoming the SAM.

In our 3-4, I would imagine a similar shift, Connor (or whoever is the SAM) would drop back, Demeco would slide over, as would Cushing who would then be responsible for the TE.

So we're still basically looking at a 4-3 only the backside TE is standing up.

If this was the case why wasn't Demarcus Ware being forced into coverage the last few seasons? Was he racking up all those sacks and dropping half the time?

thunderkyss
08-19-2011, 04:58 PM
If this was the case why wasn't Demarcus Ware being forced into coverage the last few seasons? Was he racking up all those sacks and dropping half the time?

My point, is that Wade has been saying that Mario will rarely fall into coverage, ala Ware. Yet people here still don't believe. They have questions about Mario as a pass rusher.

If we're not going to believe Wade or Herring, then the only thing we can do is wait & see. Sean Peyton will test us, I have no doubt. He will try to dictate the match-ups, we'll see what kind of resolve Phillips has.

thunderkyss
08-19-2011, 05:05 PM
You asked a question and people point you to a video where one of the coaches "answers" your question and you get your panties in a wad?

My panties aren't in a wad. I didn't ask a question. I made an observation. Mario's ability to rush the passer isn't the issue. It's his ability to cover & how much will he be asked to do. The Jets didn't press the issue.

That video didn't provide anything the coaches haven't said since day one. They've been talking on the radio about Demarcus dropping 6 times over the entire season.

Obviously what ever the coaches are saying isn't enough to ease anyone's mind about our 280lb LB.

Some of us (obviously) had questions that this game supposedly answered.

If there was a question in my last post, it is what could someone have possibly learned from our first preseason game if the main question about Mario hasn't been tested.

Shall I point you to the post where I said we were beating a dead horse with the light NT thing?

FYI, I didn't like the size of our DTs when we were running a straight 4-3. Why would I like them now that we're in a 3-4 variation that's basically a 4-3 under? BUT... at least I've said we should let it go and watch the freaking games. Damn.

I do remember you specifically having the question, which is why I brought it up.

If you're satisfied with the coaches saying a 280lb beast won't be asked to drop into coverage much, why are you concerned when the same coaches say they can have success with a svelt NT?

Ω

hradhak
08-19-2011, 05:32 PM
I agree I'm not worried about Mario. He's going to be fine. The Jets have a terrible offense and they were worried that Sanchez was gonna get hurt if he dropped back.

Anyone see how Brooks Reed was playing? I saw him out there a few times and I thought he was a little lost, but I didn't pay attention as much as I wanted.

b0ng
08-19-2011, 05:34 PM
I agree I'm not worried about Mario. He's going to be fine. The Jets have a terrible offense and they were worried that Sanchez was gonna get hurt if he dropped back.

Anyone see how Brooks Reed was playing? I saw him out there a few times and I thought he was a little lost, but I didn't pay attention as much as I wanted.

Reed had a great first series then was decidedly "meh" the rest of the game.

Jackie Chiles
08-19-2011, 06:43 PM
My point, is that Wade has been saying that Mario will rarely fall into coverage, ala Ware. Yet people here still don't believe. They have questions about Mario as a pass rusher.

If we're not going to believe Wade or Herring, then the only thing we can do is wait & see. Sean Peyton will test us, I have no doubt. He will try to dictate the match-ups, we'll see what kind of resolve Phillips has.

And you are or are not one of these people? I'm confused.

House of Pain
08-19-2011, 07:04 PM
Reed had a great first series then was decidedly "meh" the rest of the game.

I think the Texans are fortunate that they don't have to put Reed into an every down, starting LB at this point. We can use him this year to spell the other LBs and let him do the things that he understands and feels comfortable doing. Unlike some other years, like last year, that we put a rookie in a position where he was very, very unlikely to succeed.

badboy
08-19-2011, 08:59 PM
Mario gets 13 sacks & Texans get to playoffs, what kind of contract could Williams be looking at?

b0ng
08-19-2011, 10:18 PM
Mario gets 13 sacks & Texans get to playoffs, what kind of contract could Williams be looking at?

Probably $10's of millions per year.

76Texan
08-19-2011, 10:42 PM
My panties aren't in a wad.
TK admits he's wearing panties! :scarygirl:

You put your foot in your mouth there, big guy! :brando:


:runaway::breakdance:

76Texan
08-19-2011, 10:49 PM
I agree I'm not worried about Mario. He's going to be fine. The Jets have a terrible offense and they were worried that Sanchez was gonna get hurt if he dropped back.

Anyone see how Brooks Reed was playing? I saw him out there a few times and I thought he was a little lost, but I didn't pay attention as much as I wanted.

I rewatch the game a few more times. The part where Jaws showed concern about Mario plyaing OLB, at which point Gruden retorted with a line I thought was funny: "If you worry about Mario, I worry about you!" :brando::brando::brando:

Reeds' plays are still raw, but he was very active. The potential is there.
Like some had said, Reeds will be in a better position than some other rookies (including Barwin). He will have time to hone his skills at OLB.

EllisUnit
08-19-2011, 10:56 PM
what i saw in the first 15 snaps, a defense that only gave up 3 points :) better than giving up 2 long TD receptions :whip:

infantrycak
08-20-2011, 09:09 AM
Reeds' plays are still raw, but he was very active. The potential is there.
Like some had said, Reeds will be in a better position than some other rookies (including Barwin). He will have time to hone his skills at OLB.

Is it something like extra an extra e being tacked on in New England that makes people tack an extra s on around here? It is Reed.