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View Full Version : Talent or coaching (ST)


badboy
08-17-2011, 03:06 PM
I know injuries played a part last season but the special teams ain't so special recently. Marciano used to get high complements for coaching this part of team. DId he get stupid or....? It is only one pre-season game but think we have to have better effort or plan this season or we could be toast.

As a team, I am not pleased with the tackling or blocking of ST. Is this coach's job on line this season or am I over reacting?

AnthonyE
08-17-2011, 03:08 PM
There have been some radical rule changes on special teams. Ever sense the wedges were banned, our ST hasn't looked the same.

CloakNNNdagger
08-17-2011, 03:10 PM
I know injuries played a part last season but the special teams ain't so special recently. Marciano used to get high complements for coaching this part of team. DId he get stupid or....? It is only one pre-season game but think we have to have better effort or plan this season or we could be toast.

As a team, I am not pleased with the tackling or blocking of ST. Is this coach's job on line this season or am I over reacting?


One thing that is evident is that Marciano, as opposed to many other teams, has not adapted his schemes very well to the new "no wedge" rule. Those strategy changes can have significant changes on angles of attack and blocking on both sides of the ball.

badboy
08-17-2011, 03:23 PM
One thing that is evident is that Marciano, as opposed to many other teams, has not adapted his schemes very well to the new "no wedge" rule. Those strategy changes can have significant changes on angles of attack and blocking on both sides of the ball.

This is what I see also and as I had fits with Kubiak not adapting well between run and passing game, I don't want to see more of same. I know that Phillips creates a good defensive plan but want to see how he adjusts when things do not go well. In this area (adapting within a game) I still have my doubts on all three game areas.

AnthonyE
08-17-2011, 03:30 PM
This is what I see also and as I had fits with Kubiak not adapting well between run and passing game, I don't want to see more of same. I know that Phillips creates a good defensive plan but want to see how he adjusts when things do not go well. In this area (adapting within a game) I still have my doubts on all three game areas.

Don't mean to turn this into an offensive thread, but I feel like Gary's best quality is adapting in the game. He sucks at the initial gameplan, imo. His scripted plays are always ineffective but he finds a way to adapt and brings this offense back into the game.

HJam72
08-17-2011, 03:45 PM
Don't mean to turn this into an offensive thread, but I feel like Gary's best quality is adapting in the game. He sucks at the initial gameplan, imo. His scripted plays are always ineffective but he finds a way to adapt and brings this offense back into the game.

He needs to either stop scripting, or allow Schaub a lot of audibles. You can't decide what play to run in any situation before the game even starts. That part of his coaching is a seriously weak link. Otherwise, he'd be a darn good HC....well, offensively anyway.

badboy
08-17-2011, 03:47 PM
Don't mean to turn this into an offensive thread, but I feel like Gary's best quality is adapting in the game. He sucks at the initial gameplan, imo. His scripted plays are always ineffective but he finds a way to adapt and brings this offense back into the game.I think if Gary could adapt during the game we would not have gone into half time so many games the last 3 years without him changing the plan. Many times the first quarter is a give away to the opponent.

What is yourf thoughts on Marciano?

HJam72
08-17-2011, 03:47 PM
One thing that is evident is that Marciano, as opposed to many other teams, has not adapted his schemes very well to the new "no wedge" rule. Those strategy changes can have significant changes on angles of attack and blocking on both sides of the ball.

I don't disagree at all, but isn't it also possible that we have more O and D talent these days and less ST talent? It seems that way anyway. I still think you make a good point and that is likely the biggest problem.

ChampionTexan
08-17-2011, 04:01 PM
I came out of last season saying that in addition to whatever defensive changes the Texans made, the biggest keys to improving in 2011 were going to be field position, and special teams play - two very related areas.

It wouldn't have bothered me a bit to see last year be Coach Joe's final season, as I agree that it appears he's done a poor job of adjusting to rule changes.

What concerns me right now is that I can name half a dozen things off the top of my head that the Texans have done to address the defensive shortcomings, but aside from having a new punter (which may or may not have been by choice), I'm not sure I could name a single thing that makes me feel better about special teams. I know beyond a new ST coach, there's not really anything high profile that you can do, but let's just say Monday night's game didn't do anything to alleviate my concerns.

Norg
08-17-2011, 04:15 PM
Im going to say both play a mix in it coach on st should be the first one 2 go tho imo

Rey
08-17-2011, 04:58 PM
Ummm they were bringing kicks out of the back of the endzone. . .

Looked like they were more interested in getting good looks vs. Making huge returns.

They could have knelt every single kick off.

The Pencil Neck
08-17-2011, 05:13 PM
Ummm they were bringing kicks out of the back of the endzone. . .

Looked like they were more interested in getting good looks vs. Making huge returns.

They could have knelt every single kick off.

Define "they".

Because the Jets were bringing out every single kickoff (except 1, iirc) and they were easily getting out past the twenty. They were running through our coverage team like it was swiss cheese.

Before last year, we were a pretty good ST team. We scored points on ST. Last year? Nothing.

So it's an interesting question. Has our fringe talent regressed giving Marciano less to work with or is it just a statistical fluke or is Coach Joe losing touch?

Rey
08-17-2011, 05:37 PM
Define "they".

Because the Jets were bringing out every single kickoff (except 1, iirc) and they were easily getting out past the twenty. They were running through our coverage team like it was swiss cheese.

Before last year, we were a pretty good ST team. We scored points on ST. Last year? Nothing.

So it's an interesting question. Has our fringe talent regressed giving Marciano less to work with or is it just a statistical fluke or is Coach Joe losing touch?

The jets kicker was kicking the ball deeper into the endzone than rackers was.

And I don't know who was returning kicks for them, but we were trying guys out in the return game. Not to mention we were rotating guys around on coverage teams.

And I'm well aware of the problems from last year. I started a thread about it but I was ahead of my time.

badboy
08-17-2011, 06:06 PM
I try to keep in mind that ST players are usually 2nd & 3rd best players.

ChampionTexan
08-17-2011, 06:48 PM
Ummm they were bringing kicks out of the back of the endzone. . .

Looked like they were more interested in getting good looks vs. Making huge returns.

They could have knelt every single kick off.

Ummm there was only one kick-off that was even fielded in the endzone and that was only three yards deep.

Texans returns:
Opening kickoff - fielded at -3, returned 21 yards to the 18.
Second kickoff - fielded at the 1 returned 9 yards to the 10.
Third kickoff - fielded at the 4 returned 17 yards to the 21
Fourth kickoff - fielded at at the 2 returned 20 yards to the Houston 22

LINK (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011081551/2011/PRE1/jets@texans/analyze/box-score#analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay)

That's all of them - the Jets scored three times and kicked to open the game - four kick-offs.

CloakNNNdagger
08-17-2011, 07:17 PM
Ummm there was only one kick-off that was even fielded in the endzone and that was only three yards deep.

Texans returns:
Opening kickoff - fielded at -3, returned 21 yards to the 18.
Second kickoff - fielded at the 1 returned 9 yards to the 10.
Third kickoff - fielded at the 4 returned 17 yards to the 21
Fourth kickoff - fielded at at the 2 returned 20 yards to the Houston 22

LINK (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011081551/2011/PRE1/jets@texans/analyze/box-score#analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay)

That's all of them - the Jets scored three times and kicked to open the game - four kick-offs.


Hang time seemed to be somewhat lacking on even the kicks into the EZ (by the Texans). Then all the missed tackles didn't help their cause. Most of the returns seemed be directed right through the middle, into greatest traffic. I saw no developing pattern of blocking for our return man, nor an option to follow the sideline when it appeared to be wide open.

TimeKiller
08-18-2011, 07:46 AM
Don't mean to turn this into an offensive thread, but I feel like Gary's best quality is adapting in the game. He sucks at the initial gameplan, imo. His scripted plays are always ineffective but he finds a way to adapt and brings this offense back into the game.

Isn't that the point of scripting? Find out what kind of look they will throw at you if you line up a certain way, then line up like that again later knowing which plays will be better suited to beat their set.

Malloy
08-18-2011, 07:48 AM
One thing that is evident is that Marciano, as opposed to many other teams, has not adapted his schemes very well to the new "no wedge" rule. Those strategy changes can have significant changes on angles of attack and blocking on both sides of the ball.

I think you're spot on, he seems to have a problem ajusting to this new reality of returns.

CloakNNNdagger
08-18-2011, 08:56 AM
Isn't that the point of scripting? Find out what kind of look they will throw at you if you line up a certain way, then line up like that again later knowing which plays will be better suited to beat their set.

The problem with that logic is that you would expect to see that script-driven "adjustment" to be evident way before the 3rd quarter of games.

badboy
08-18-2011, 09:13 AM
Hang time seemed to be somewhat lacking on even the kicks into the EZ (by the Texans). Then all the missed tackles didn't help their cause. Most of the returns seemed be directed right through the middle, into greatest traffic. I saw no developing pattern of blocking for our return man, nor an option to follow the sideline when it appeared to be wide open.This has been my complaints for last 2 seasons. Anyone should be able to block in NFL and our tackling is sloppy.

badboy
08-18-2011, 09:16 AM
I think you're spot on, he seems to have a problem ajusting to this new reality of returns.I would think the "no wedge" rule would benefit the defense so adaption should be rather easy.