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The Pencil Neck
08-16-2011, 02:39 AM
Somebody has to do it (even though it kinda leaked into the What I Liked thread) and it might as well be a Sunshine guy starting it:

The special teams were short bus special. The return teams were terrible.

Mario didn't get into the groove.

We looked weak up the middle to me. Although Earl seemed to pick it up against the 3rd stringers, he never played against their all pro #1 center. With Shonn Greene out there, we were getting gouged up the middle. If the NT isn't going to stop that, then the ILBs have to.

Molden made some good plays to almost make me think he was salvageable... and then he made some bone-head plays that made me want to cut him before the game was over.

I guess I expected way too much from Shiloh Keo. He was seriously not good.

Our TEs. I expected OD and Garrett Graham to make some of those tough catches that they didn't come up with.

Brandon Harris. I expected a lot from him but he looked like just another one of the guys out there.

KJ was KJ. He didn't fall down but he wanted to. I could tell.

Leinart. Yeah. He's a major upgrade over Orlovsky. And he played pretty good there for awhile. And then he started staring down receivers and making throws that didn't seem to make sense.

Jacoby Jones. Did not have a good day.

Dorin Dickerson. Looked good blocking on the goal line but I didn't see him catching anything. I wanted to see him catching things and using his freakish athletic ability to dominate our opponents. Didn't see it.

Our RBs. Mad props to Ogbonnaya for stepping in and manning up. Great game. But some guys better get healthy really, really quick.

YoungTexanFan
08-16-2011, 02:56 AM
Didn't like Mario or Barwin's play at OLB. I'm actually a little worried about Mario as I didn't see OLB speed, and he clearly needs time to slow the game down at his new position. That's not a great combo.

I thought Manning well and KJ played decently. Other than that, our secondary wasn't very good. We're still giving too much of a cushion. However, they are at least within a body's length of the receiver this season. That's a big step forward.

I didn't like our NT play, though I think most of us have tempered expectations for that position this year. We could only afford to upgrade so much. I was pleased with Smith and delighted with Watt.

I'm borderline disgusted by our WR play. The effort those guys gave today is embarrassing. Jean being the exception. Yes, Schaub and Yates left some balls high/long, but if you get a hand on it, you have to catch it. Also, nothing pisses me off faster than a WR breaking full stride only to reach up for the ball with one hand. Poor form and effort lead to poor results. I wasn't impressed at all with any WR not named Walter and Jean, and honestly, for as much hype as the other UDFA WR's were getting from y'all on here, I'd just as soon cut them all and give Jean more reps.

Our open field tackling is about as bad as last year, which worries me. Keo was the most outstanding example of this, but there was plenty of blame to go around, on all units. This is a mentality. They know how to tackle properly, but choosing to lead with the shoulder without dropping the hips square and wrapping up leads to a ton of what we saw tonight. Keo, on the quick slant right after he missed the sack, literally attempted to circle around his man and arm tackle him from an angle behind him rather than hold his angle and tackle the ball carrier straight on.

Both sides of our return units were terrible. Like, terrible enough to get the coach fired a few games into the season terrible. We need some solution to this, and quick.

That's about all the negative I'm going to pull from this game. I think we played well for the most part, and most of what's listed will be fixed through coaching in the next week and/or cuts. I can only recall one play were we absolutely blew a defensive coverage (TE rolled into flat w/no coverage while in cover-1), so I'm pleased with that. I think some guys just need more reps to get comfortable. There are a ton of positives I took from the game, but this is the negative thread, so I'll leave those for the other thread.

Scooter
08-16-2011, 03:15 AM
biggest disappointment for me was not seeing our receivers. being preseason i'd much rather see an incompletion to dickerson than a successful dump to 27 (i'm not going to attempt his name). speaking of 27, i actually liked our fullback play, but our run blocking from the line left plenty to be desired. i also didnt like our run defense from the first team. our base looked like a 3rd down unit against a draw - penetration but in a way that takes our heavies out of the play and leaves our ILB's exposed. cushing will help as an ILB strongman, but we leave 3 empty yards behind cody's attempted penetration and what may be a record number of tackles for our safeties needing to fill run lanes.

ObsiWan
08-16-2011, 05:39 AM
Biggest disappointment to me was Schaub. He was off all night. Missed OD and a couple of other guys who were open. Strangely reminiscent of last year when he'd come out flat in the first half.

The next most disappointing thing was the play of the first string ILBs. Going against the Jets' ones, they didn't really play the run well when they had to read and react. The OLBs - Mario and Conner - are spread wide in this defensive scheme (don't take my word for it, watch how wide Demarcus Ware is in the Cowboy defense - that's how Wade has his OLBs line up) so if there's a run, the OLBs have outside contain. If the ILBs aren't flying to the ball or get tangled up in traffic, the RB has a lane off tackle for a big gain. Neither DeMeco nor Sharpton were up to the task tonight. A lot of folks are all on Mario's and Conner's cases but where were our ILBs tonight?? If the linemen and TEs are tying up our OLBs then the ILBs should be free.

Special teams gets a mixed grade. Rackers seemed on his game and none of his kicks were close to being blocked so the FG unit seems ready to go. The punt team needs to sharpen up but the punters themselves did okay. None of those famous Matt Turk-style 20-yarders - they averaged 44-45 yds. The rook got off a 52-yarder; nice. The return teams flat out sucked. Any return guy who gives up 10 yards on a return needs to be cut. I hate that. Pick a damned lane and fly through it.

Tackling. Two words to the defense: WRAP. UP. Looks like Wade's scheme (hey, we actually can use that word seriously - feels good don't it?) defensive guys are in position to make plays. So wrap the hell up! While I'm on the defense, remember folks, we didn't play one of the better QBs tonight. Sanchez ain't really all that. Wait until Drew Brees comes to town. THAT will be a real test.

HJam72
08-16-2011, 06:05 AM
I don't see how anybody's KO return team is going to be any good this year. The new rule sucks.

Rey
08-16-2011, 06:55 AM
I don't see how anybody's KO return team is going to be any good this year. The new rule sucks.

Some of those kicks we brought out would have been kneeled last year. I like the aggressiveness of bringing them out though. If you get past thatvfirst wave you have a chance to take one.

Overall I was pleased with the first defense.

Sanchez rolled out to barwins side and barwin was kind of trapped in between rushing and covering and he surprised me with how fluid and natural he looked.

Ogbanaya was nothing special.

Over the course of the game I think Mario will play better. I was overall pleased with the db play.


I thought the receivers played ok. I think all of the qb's need to play better. Lots of overthrown balls. There were opprotunities to gash the jets, but we just missed. But I think that was just first game jitters.

Considering it was the first live action for wades new defense I think it was pretty good. Molden looked decent overall, Brice McCain made some plays. I reapply didn't notice Kareem.

Jj watt is a beast. The second team defense was very good.

Texanator
08-16-2011, 07:05 AM
Some of you would complain if you were handed a Super Bowl ring on a silver platter! Just once I'd like to come to this forum and see more positive posts then all the negative complaining.

thunderkyss
08-16-2011, 07:05 AM
Special teams.

I know it's gotta be tough for Marciano to have so many new people running his special teams, with the short off-season, they may not have spent much time on it, but it's definitely an are that is going to need work.

I'm getting tired of seeing our offense come out looking like crap. I can write a better script to go against the Jets defense. It's not like we don't know what they want to do.

Mario... Maybe he can be a good OLB. I don't know. But we've got plenty of options to throw out there. He is a great DE... a probowl DE.. why screw around with him?

thunderkyss
08-16-2011, 07:06 AM
Some of you would complain if you were handed a Super Bowl ring on a silver platter! Just once I'd like to come to this forum and see more positive posts then all the negative complaining.

Why couldn't we get it on a gold platter? & why only one ring?



:kitten:

Thorn
08-16-2011, 07:38 AM
Some of you would complain if you were handed a Super Bowl ring on a silver platter! Just once I'd like to come to this forum and see more positive posts then all the negative complaining.

Dude, re-read the thread title. This is the complaint department thread. LOL

Mario looked lost, and that worries me. If he isn't gonna jack it up if for no other reason it's a contract year for him, then he's lost. I was not very happy with Mario's performance last night.

Schaub looked rusty, but at least on this one I know it'll get fixed. Can't say that about Mario just yet.

Recievers dropped a lot of balls, and CBs were only slightly better.

Now that I've got that out of my system, I going to go post in the "What I liked" thread. :)

Blake
08-16-2011, 07:48 AM
Schaub was a little high on his throws.

Mario was a little slow off the line. (I'm not going to rip him too much though. Did anyone think the Jets weren't going to game plan for him, or leave him unblocked?)

Kickoff return looks just as bad as last year.

Behind Earl Mitchell I dont see alot of quality depth.

gtexan02
08-16-2011, 07:49 AM
Our first string pass D looked like last year. Big cushions, lots of completions, no real aggressiveness. We let Sanchez complete everything. He is a career 50% guy and he hit 90 against us. Again.

Rey
08-16-2011, 07:53 AM
Some of you would complain if you were handed a Super Bowl ring on a silver platter! Just once I'd like to come to this forum and see more positive posts then all the negative complaining.

Dude, your avatar is a visual complaint everytime you post.

El Tejano
08-16-2011, 07:56 AM
Run D was bad
Receivers were bad except for Lestar Jean
Matt wasn't good
OL run blocking not where it needed to be.
Defense still giving up slant routes
D still not coming off field on 3rd and 15.
We made their rookie QB look like he's played in the league before (I don't care if it was 3rd teamers, plays were still not being made).

Joe Marciano needed to suit up the ST for practice after the game or be let go himself.

CloakNNNdagger
08-16-2011, 08:27 AM
*Defensive line vs run-------"A kingdom for my fat boy in the middle.."

*Kickoffs by both kickers were more like line drives........they successfully got their kicks near or into the end zone......but hang time was horrible, not giving the time for the cover team to get down the field. Once the cover team did manage to get down, the angles taken and the tackling were a horrendous complement.

*Demeco looked like he was going nuts with so much confusion evident trying to get his guys into position........it appeared that the LBs were starring in a "Keystone Cops" episode. The starring movie roles went to Mario and even Barwin for "Lost in Space."

The1ApplePie
08-16-2011, 09:40 AM
Mario looked as smooth, fluid, and natural as an animatronic bear at OLB.

bckey
08-16-2011, 10:31 AM
*Defensive line vs run-------"A kingdom for my fat boy in the middle.."

I'm hoping that when the final cuts of preseason are made that the Texans find the "fat boy in the middle" that they sorely need.

Rey
08-16-2011, 10:39 AM
I don't get the Mario complaints. He looked fine to me.

On that long Shonn Greene run Earl Mitchell cannot let the double team uproot him like that, but Dobbins is the guy who let that play turn into the big yardage it did.

Demeco came down and took on the fullback's outside shoulder and closed the hole down. Dobbins was backside so he should have filled. Now he probably had a little trouble doing that since Mitchell was double teamed back into his lap.

Overall though I'm not worried about that being a problem. Mitchell is still young and learning and being fat is not the only way to beat double teams and to not allow the OL to get movement on you. He was much too high, and I was always taught that if you feel the double and are getting pushed back just go to the ground and cause a mess and let the LB's clean it up.

Two players were at fault on that play....Mitchell primarily and Dobbins taking second in a photo finish.

Lady.Gaga.3000
08-16-2011, 10:52 AM
Where was Trindon Holliday?

Even though it was only 1 quarter and the first game back, Barwin/Mario went against 1st team and were ineffective.

And we got beat on slants near the goal by the Jets again. Big SMH

TheCD
08-16-2011, 11:16 AM
Defense still giving up slant routes.

The nightmares about slant patterns are going to start up again, I just know it...


Reggie Wayne, Kenny Britt, Roddy White, Brandon Marshall, Hines Ward, Mike Williams, Steve Smith. Ugh...I'm tired of seeing easy slants for 1st downs on 3rd and ANYTHING!

Corrosion
08-16-2011, 11:31 AM
Special teams looked more like special ed ..... The Jets returning KO's from 8 yards deep and getting across the 20 .... :smiliepalm: Return teams looked unorganized ... :headhurts:


There were times when the run defense , especially up the middle was awful.

Lots of missed tackles .... Keo whiffed on at least two.

Run blocking looked a little off .... could be a lot of factors playing into this. Im not ready to venture a guess as to the reasons.

Thorn
08-16-2011, 11:58 AM
Special teams looked more like special ed ..... The Jets returning KO's from 8 yards deep and getting across the 20 .... :smiliepalm: Return teams looked unorganized ... :headhurts:


There were times when the run defense , especially up the middle was awful.

Lots of missed tackles .... Keo whiffed on at least two.

Run blocking looked a little off .... could be a lot of factors playing into this. Im not ready to venture a guess as to the reasons.

It's the 1st pre-season game, and they've had less time than usual to prepare for it. I saw things I didn't like as well, like Mario looking lost. But I'm not going to get nuts about it unless I'm still seeing it in the 3rd pre-season game. If I see it this coming Saturday (bad things, repeated from this week) I'm sure I'll get a tad irrated, but honestly, they need more than a few weeks to get this stuff down.

I'll save my serious temper tantrums until after the 3rd pre-season game.

Texecutioner
08-16-2011, 12:03 PM
Some of you would complain if you were handed a Super Bowl ring on a silver platter! Just once I'd like to come to this forum and see more positive posts then all the negative complaining.

Then why are you in this thread?? Did you not bother to read the title?

And in case you didn't notice this site is full of positive posts and positive threads all over the place. Maybe if you look around you might notice that.

michaelm
08-16-2011, 12:12 PM
Some of you would complain if you were handed a Super Bowl ring on a silver platter! Just once I'd like to come to this forum and see more positive posts then all the negative complaining.

Then why are you in this thread?? Did you not bother to read the title?

And in case you didn't notice this site is full of positive posts and positive threads all over the place. Maybe if you look around you might notice that.

[cue Clint Eastwood-esque spaghetti western music]

Gunfight at The TT corral.

Texanator and Texecutioner, mano-a-mano

CloakNNNdagger
08-16-2011, 12:13 PM
Where was Trindon Holliday?

Even though it was only 1 quarter and the first game back, Barwin/Mario went against 1st team and were ineffective.

And we got beat on slants near the goal by the Jets again. Big SMH

http://img2.smackjeeves.com/images/uploaded/comics/b/8/b87b2a2c9310.jpg

ObsiWan
08-16-2011, 12:14 PM
Held out because of a hamstring problem.

Geez, I think we need a hamstring smiley.

CloakNNNdagger
08-16-2011, 12:16 PM
Geez, I think we need a hamstring smiley.

Look up above, I adjusted things.........just for you!:bubbles:

Corrosion
08-16-2011, 12:16 PM
It's the 1st pre-season game, and they've had less time than usual to prepare for it. I saw things I didn't like as well, like Mario looking lost. But I'm not going to get nuts about it unless I'm still seeing it in the 3rd pre-season game. If I see it this coming Saturday (bad things, repeated from this week) I'm sure I'll get a tad irrated, but honestly, they need more than a few weeks to get this stuff down.

I'll save my serious temper tantrums until after the 3rd pre-season game.

Wont disagree with you at all Thorn ..... which is why I didnt bother to go into detail on the why's of the OL looking a bit off .... Shortened offseason , starters didnt play much , didnt have their top back and not much of the #2 , Playing against a Jets team that is usually very solid against the run .... Lots of reasons you could come up with.

Bottom line , they found a way to win .... The pass rush looked fantastic , KJ didnt fall down and no one got hurt.

Texecutioner
08-16-2011, 12:18 PM
[cue Clint Eastwood-esque spaghetti western music]

Gunfight at The TT corral.

Texanator and Texecutioner, mano-a-mano

:cowboy1:

ObsiWan
08-16-2011, 12:39 PM
Look up above, I adjusted things.........just for you!:bubbles:

I saw that right after I posted.
I salute you, good sir.

leebigeztx
08-16-2011, 12:59 PM
I have a few, but its only 1 preseason game.

Cody at nt won't work at all. If the point of having a smaller nt is to penetrate and disrupt, cody doesn't fit the bill. The straight power game was through him and it not like he was forcing a double team. The time I watched mitchell, he looked a lot better. Cody is garbage. On the 20 yard run by grene was classic conflict. 21 personel, straight lead power even with mitchell in the game. 2nd string center and guard combo block the nt, guard goes up and get sharpton, conner wipes out ryans, 20 yard run easy. I don't know if they're doing like last year and just believing bs or what, but that wasn't crhis johnson. Had it been cj, that would've been 6 or a 50 yd gainer.

3 and out offense. Once again,the passing game is manipulated by johnson. Against great corners or a good defense, they will take johnson out early and force the 2nd and 3rd guys to win. They can't, offense struggles early, defense back on the field. Its clear as day that defenses don't care about jones,walters, or whomever else the texans have opposite aj.

Poor lb coverage. Its easy to say mario,barwin struggled at pass coverage, but ryan and sharpton struggled big time also. The quick slants run by the jets were pop warner completions. Why? The ilb didn't close the windows. 3 step drop, the ilb has to find the lane on the pass play. On a 3 step drop, there are only 2 route that can be run by the wr, a stop, smoke screen, or slant. On all the slants compleed, except 1, the cb was in soft coverage. That mean the distance between that route should be covered by the ilb. 3&5, kj was in a press man against holmes. He didn't get his hands on him, holmes turned him around, skinny post, easy completion. It was just jackson because both ryans and sharpton bit on the run action and jackson didn't slow the route down.

Its easy to nitpick, but they did do some good things.

76Texan
08-16-2011, 01:38 PM
I don't get the Mario complaints. He looked fine to me.

On that long Shonn Greene run Earl Mitchell cannot let the double team uproot him like that, but Dobbins is the guy who let that play turn into the big yardage it did.

Demeco came down and took on the fullback's outside shoulder and closed the hole down. Dobbins was backside so he should have filled. Now he probably had a little trouble doing that since Mitchell was double teamed back into his lap.

Overall though I'm not worried about that being a problem. Mitchell is still young and learning and being fat is not the only way to beat double teams and to not allow the OL to get movement on you. He was much too high, and I was always taught that if you feel the double and are getting pushed back just go to the ground and cause a mess and let the LB's clean it up.

Two players were at fault on that play....Mitchell primarily and Dobbins taking second in a photo finish.

Sure, Mitchell needs to dig in better, but its' a one-gap scheme, Dobbins needs to fill the gap quickly so Quin can move in the other gap.
That would also give Manning (who dropped back into coverage) time to come up and help.

It has to be at least a tie betweenthem two, but I would put it on Dobbins more.

b0ng
08-16-2011, 01:41 PM
All the offensive linemen that got hurt (There was what. . . 3 of them?). The running game in a nut shell was pretty bad with the 4th stringer in there. None of the WR's looked like much of anything outside of Lestar Jean. TE's weren't really that impressive either in terms of run blocking or pass catching. The line did pass protect fairly well but it wasn't stellar or anything.

Short passes and inside runs seem like they are going to be easy pickings coming out of the gate at least, which has me worried. The Jets offense in the red zone isn't a work of art, they need to be able to tighten that kind of stuff up. Worried that we didn't generate much pressure until starters came out of the game.

Rey
08-16-2011, 01:49 PM
Sure, Mitchell needs to dig in better, but its' a one-gap scheme, Dobbins needs to fill the gap quickly so Quin can move in the other gap.
That would also give Manning (who dropped back into coverage) time to come up and help.

It has to be at least a tie betweenthem two, but I would put it on Dobbins more.

Mitchell cannot get pushed back into the LB's lap regardless of scheme.

Dobbins probably reads the play a lot better if he doesn't have three people pushing against him. Demeco is keying the FB and Dobins is keying the RB. The RB took a misdirection step in the backfield causing Dobbins to take that initial step to the right.

By the time he reacted and started to come back the other way mitchell, the gaurd and center were on top of him.

Now, he needs to do a better job of fighting through traffic and being an athlete, but no way can you say that the LB is more at fault when the NT is being pushed 4 yards of the ball right into his face.

Rey
08-16-2011, 01:57 PM
TE's weren't really that impressive either in terms of run blocking or pass catching.



Not calling you out, but what passes thrown to the TE's should they have caught but didn't?

To me it seems more like the QB's as a whole were a bit off on some of their passes.

b0ng
08-16-2011, 02:03 PM
Not calling you out, but what passes thrown to the TE's should they have caught but didn't?

To me it seems more like the QB's as a whole were a bit off on some of their passes.

I know Graham caught one from Leinart for a first but then he seemed to miss on one or two balls that Yates threw that I thought were catchable. OD had one chance and one incompletion, and he honestly didn't look ready for that pass when Schaub fired it out.

I just didn't see any plays being made by the TE's and I thought for sure Graham would show something playing against reserves and camp bodies. I seem to remember him being able to get good seperation and looked a lot more like Owen Daniels than Dreeson does last year in camp.

Rey
08-16-2011, 02:25 PM
I know Graham caught one from Leinart for a first but then he seemed to miss on one or two balls that Yates threw that I thought were catchable. OD had one chance and one incompletion, and he honestly didn't look ready for that pass when Schaub fired it out.

I just didn't see any plays being made by the TE's and I thought for sure Graham would show something playing against reserves and camp bodies. I seem to remember him being able to get good seperation and looked a lot more like Owen Daniels than Dreeson does last year in camp.

Ok...That makes sense...

Chance_C
08-16-2011, 02:28 PM
Not calling you out, but what passes thrown to the TE's should they have caught but didn't?

To me it seems more like the QB's as a whole were a bit off on some of their passes.
__________________


Certainly not piling on "the weatherman" but he could have and probably should have had the pass from Schaub. Yes he was led a little to far, but usually he catches those. Not a big deal because we know he will catch those more often than not.

BullsOnParade
08-16-2011, 02:59 PM
The whole "looking weak up the middle thing" is what worried me the most. I think Mario will eventually look a little better, when defenses learn they can't turn all their attention to him, but the Jets had a few runs where we got gashed up the middle.

This concerns me.

And of course special teams was awful, but I was expecting that.

BetaV1
08-16-2011, 04:46 PM
I did not like the play of the offense at all. It seems like each year the team makes a legit cause to fix the ills of the previous season. Going into last year, it was not being able to run the ball. That problem was solved. This year, it should be obvious that the biggest offensive flaw was coming flat. It looks like we still got work to do on that front. Some people will argue that Andre wasn't in the game, so it was our 2nd and 3rds against Revis and Cromartie. While that is true,we still blew a lot of golden opportunities to establish some offensive momentum. Schaub missed a wide open Owen Daniels that would've given us a first down. Walters dropped a catchable ball near the sideline that would've given us another first down. The team has got to fix this, because we have deal with the Colts and Saints in a few weeks, and those two teams aren't going to sit around and wait for us to get our swagger going.

Much like everyone else, I also didn't like Mario Williams' play, but I'm almost certain he'll improve, albeit baby steps. A big saving grace to Mario's play is that I also recall Wade mentioning that Mario will likely be rushing the quarterback a majority of the time anyways. Last night, it seemed to me that he was dropping back in coverage more than anything. I'm thinking Wade is letting Mario get as many reps in coverage as he can, which makes perfect sense. The guy already knows how to rush the quarterback. The pre-season is the time for him to work on his coverage game.

CloakNNNdagger
08-16-2011, 08:07 PM
http://img2.smackjeeves.com/images/uploaded/comics/b/8/b87b2a2c9310.jpg

Rashad Butler

Kimmy
08-16-2011, 08:12 PM
picture

Rashad Butler

Oh my gosh, so funny!

CloakNNNdagger
08-16-2011, 08:50 PM
Caldwell suffered a high-ankle sprain.

Studdard’s injury was characterized by Kubiak as a high ankle sprain, but qualified that is seems to be worse than Caldwell's. He refused to further characterize the injury when asked to do so, saying that he will need further tests. This doesn't sound good. A high ankle sprain is bad enough. An MRI will definitely be performed. If it demonstrates a high grade high ankle sprain with complete ligament tear, he's going to be out a very long time. If the MRI shows an accompanying fracture, he is likely done.

DocBar
08-16-2011, 09:06 PM
I didn't like the responses to the thread I started about Kubiak. Just sayin....:kitten:

76Texan
08-17-2011, 09:31 AM
Mitchell cannot get pushed back into the LB's lap regardless of scheme.

Dobbins probably reads the play a lot better if he doesn't have three people pushing against him. Demeco is keying the FB and Dobins is keying the RB. The RB took a misdirection step in the backfield causing Dobbins to take that initial step to the right.

By the time he reacted and started to come back the other way mitchell, the gaurd and center were on top of him.

Now, he needs to do a better job of fighting through traffic and being an athlete, but no way can you say that the LB is more at fault when the NT is being pushed 4 yards of the ball right into his face.

When the runner crossed the LOS, Mitchell was about 2 yards (or a little bit less) from the LOS.

This is how I saw it (JMO as usual.)

Mitchell was trying to penetrated the strongside A gap the whole time.

1. If Dobbins had shot the SS B gap, it would force the LG to come off the combo block and allow Mitchell to get through. The C wouldn't have been able to get off the block instead of moving downfield.
The weak side A gap would have been smaller.
Both Quin and Manning would have been able to react better.
(Also Mario needs to read the play and come back.)

2. Or if Dobbins had flowed to the weak side sooner (depending on his onfield read), he would have been able to take on the C's block better. Again, that would have allowed Mitchell a much better chance to get off the Guard's block. If the runner cut back to the strong side, there was Barwin (since the TE released) to close it down before Quin and Manning move in.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/PS%201%20Jets/SG%2019yd%20run/vlcsnap-1334908.jpg

Here's the sequence:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/PS%201%20Jets/SG%2019yd%20run/

Rey
08-17-2011, 09:44 AM
When the runner crossed the LOS, Mitchell was about 2 yards (or a little bit less) from the LOS.

This is how I saw it (JMO as usual.)

Mitchell was trying to penetrated the strongside A gap the whole time.

1. If Dobbins had shot the SS B gap, it would force the LG to come off the combo block and allow Mitchell to get through. The C wouldn't have been able to get off the block instead of moving downfield.
The weak side A gap would have been smaller.
Both Quin and Manning would have been able to react better.
(Also Mario needs to read the play and come back.)

2. Or if Dobbins had flowed to the weak side sooner (depending on his onfield read), he would have been able to take on the C's block better. Again, that would have allowed Mitchell a much better chance to get off the Guard's block. If the runner cut back to the strong side, there was Barwin (since the TE released) to close it down before Quin and Manning move in.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/PS%201%20Jets/SG%2019yd%20run/vlcsnap-1334908.jpg

Here's the sequence:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/PS%201%20Jets/SG%2019yd%20run/


I think you are missing the fact that the play was a misdirection. Most of the time one LB is keying FB and the other is keying the RB. On this play it seems pretty obvious which ILB was doing what.

If Dobbins is keying RB, then naturally he's going to flow a bit toward the misdirection and then try to come back the other way.

In no way, shape or form can you say that Dobbins should have come back quicker and allowed Mitchell to not get pushed that far back. That doesn't make any sense. Sure if he would have blitzed it would have caused the gaurd to come of quicker, but that wasn't the call. Earl needs to not let the double team get that much push and maybe Dobbins can come down and make a play....At the very least, the hole is not as big which would make the RB slow down a bit...

Doesn't matter where Mitchell was trying to penetrate. When he feels the double team coming from that side he needs to react accordingly...Even if you are playing a penetrating style you are taught to read certain keys. Double teams and pulling gaurds are two of those things.

76Texan
08-17-2011, 09:56 AM
I think you are missing the fact that the play was a misdirection. Most of the time one LB is keying FB and the other is keying the RB. On this play it seems pretty obvious which ILB was doing what.

If Dobbins is keying RB, then naturally he's going to flow a bit toward the misdirection and then try to come back the other way.

In no way, shape or form can you say that Dobbins should have come back quicker and allowed Mitchell to not get pushed that far back. That doesn't make any sense. Sure if he would have blitzed it would have caused the gaurd to come of quicker, but that wasn't the call. Earl needs to not let the double team get that much push and maybe Dobbins can come down and make a play....At the very least, the hole is not as big which would make the RB slow down a bit...

Less than two yards is not good, but NOT THAT FAR BACK.
No matter what the call was, Dobbins needs to know his position on the field.
He cannot allowed himself to get caught in the trash.
He knew the combo block is right there in front of him.

I never said "come back".
I gave two scenarios in the one-gap scheme.
Either Dobbins shot the SS B gap or flowed to the WS A gap quicker.
He did neither >>> FAIL

76Texan
08-17-2011, 10:11 AM
I think this is the call "WILL BULLETS"

Running flow to weak side (FB lead = Dotted Lines), MIKE flows to weak side A gap first.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Wades%20Defense/Will%20Bullets/WILLBULLET.png

Rey
08-17-2011, 10:18 AM
Less than two yards is not good, but NOT THAT FAR BACK.
No matter what the call was, Dobbins needs to know his position on the field.
He cannot allowed himself to get caught in the trash.
He knew the combo block is right there in front of him.

I never said "come back".
I gave two scenarios in the one-gap scheme.
Either Dobbins shot the SS B gap or flowed to the WS A gap quicker.
He did neither >>> FAIL

You are wrong IMO.

I disagree with you on both points.

Even in the screen shot you showed, Mitchell might as well tell Dobbins what he wants for Christmas because he is sitting in his lap.

As a DT, more specifically a NT, you cannot ever allow yourself to be driven back into the LB's -- double team or not. There are ways to combat that.

On your second point, I disagree again. There was misdirection action. He was not shooting gaps or blitzing. He was reading the play.

He would have been able to come back across a lot more cleanly had mitchell not been humping his leg on that play.

And I know you never said, "come back"....and that is why you are wrong. Go back and look at the play and you can see the RB take a misdirection step to his left...Dobbins is keying the RB wo when he initially went that way so did Dobbins...When the RB came back right to take the handoff Dobbins proceeded to try to come back, but by that time Mitchell was kissing him goodnight...

Demeco was keying the FB and that is why he flowed straight towards the gap. The FB took no misdirection step. Demeco did what he was supposed to do which was attack the FB's outside shoulder and try to close the gap down.

Rey
08-17-2011, 10:25 AM
I think this is the call "WILL BULLETS"

Running flow to weak side (FB lead = Dotted Lines), MIKE flows to weak side A gap first.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Wades%20Defense/Will%20Bullets/WILLBULLET.png

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that there was misdirection action in the backfield...It was not a lead, it was a misdirection play...

76Texan
08-17-2011, 10:27 AM
You are wrong IMO.

I disagree with you on both points.

Even in the screen shot you showed, Mitchell might as well tell Dobbins what he wants for Christmas because he is sitting in his lap.

As a DT, more specifically a NT, you cannot ever allow yourself to be driven back into the LB's -- double team or not. There are ways to combat that.

On your second point, I disagree again. There was misdirection action. He was not shooting gaps or blitzing. He was reading the play.

He would have been able to come back across a lot more cleanly had mitchell not been humping his leg on that play.

And I know you never said, "come back"....and that is why you are wrong. Go back and look at the play and you can see the RB take a misdirection step to his left...Dobbins is keying the RB wo when he initially went that way so did Dobbins...When the RB came back right to take the handoff Dobbins proceeded to try to come back, but by that time Mitchell was kissing him goodnight...

Demeco was keying the FB and that is why he flowed straight towards the gap. The FB took no misdirection step. Demeco did what he was supposed to do which was attack the FB's outside shoulder and try to close the gap down.

Go to the sequence of snapshots, the RB did not start left; he went right and followed the FB until he saw nothing there and cut back around the FB's block.

Here's the sequence:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/PS%201%20Jets/SG%2019yd%20run/

76Texan
08-17-2011, 10:41 AM
Also, the diagram is not of a blitz.
It merely shows the alignments and responsibilities of the front 7 when they read run.

The responsibility for the MIKE is spelled out:
RUN weak (away from TE) --> MIKE flows to WS A gap and then to the Ball.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Wades%20Defense/Will%20Bullets/WILLBULLET.png

Rey
08-17-2011, 11:18 AM
Go to the sequence of snapshots, the RB did not start left; he went right and followed the FB until he saw nothing there and cut back around the FB's block.

Here's the sequence:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/PS%201%20Jets/SG%2019yd%20run/

You are right. There was no misdirection action. I can admit when I'm wrong.

But in my initial post I said that Dobbins was at fault closely behind Mitchell.

Even if Dobbins reads the play correctly, Mitchell cannot get doubled back into him. Not sure why you are arguing that fact.

76Texan
08-17-2011, 11:24 AM
You are right. There was no misdirection action. I can admit when I'm wrong.

But in my initial post I said that Dobbins was at fault closely behind Mitchell.

Even if Dobbins reads the play correctly, Mitchell cannot get doubled back into him. Not sure why you are arguing that fact.

I didn't argue that Mitchell was without fault.
I just think that Dobbins was more at fault, that's all.
I think we can agree to that!

A better play by the MIKE and the D could have cut that gain in half (or something like that).

Rey
08-17-2011, 11:29 AM
I didn't argue that Mitchell was without fault.
I just think that Dobbins was more at fault, that's all.
I think we can agree to that!

A better play by the MIKE and the D could have cut that gain in half (or something like that).

No we can't agree to that..LOL...

I think Mitchell was more at fault for being driven back into his lap...

But what we can agree on is that they were BOTH at fault on the play.

This was my initial post:

On that long Shonn Greene run Earl Mitchell cannot let the double team uproot him like that, but Dobbins is the guy who let that play turn into the big yardage it did.

Demeco came down and took on the fullback's outside shoulder and closed the hole down. Dobbins was backside so he should have filled. Now he probably had a little trouble doing that since Mitchell was double teamed back into his lap.

Overall though I'm not worried about that being a problem. Mitchell is still young and learning and being fat is not the only way to beat double teams and to not allow the OL to get movement on you. He was much too high, and I was always taught that if you feel the double and are getting pushed back just go to the ground and cause a mess and let the LB's clean it up.

Two players were at fault on that play....Mitchell primarily and Dobbins taking second in a photo finish.

leebigeztx
08-17-2011, 10:18 PM
76texan, I enjoy ur Monday morning qb, but to say that play way more dobbins than mitchell is way off base. No matter what scheme a team play, the nt can't get blown 2 yds off the ball and allow the guard to get the lb. Dobbins couldn't fill because earl and the guard was in his lap, plain and simple as rey say. If greene had a legit burst, that's 40 or a td vs 17. I urge u to look at the 2 long runs by mcgahe and mcclain vs the cowboys a few yrs back and its a photo copy.

Center washed ratliff, rt and left guard got ilbs, fb took out safety, off to the races. when wade had williams, both pat and jamal, and big ted, you didn't see gashing, up the gut runs. Now if you want to say its ok and they have to make do, that's fine. On the 2 other good runs, cody was just as bad, if not worse. Btw, the guy has had a - rating vs the pass and the run the last 3 yrs. He brings as much to the table as okoye. The texans will have trouble stopping the run, which keeps the offense off the field. Good thing is wade has always allowed yards, but prevented points. The packers allowed a lot of rush yards, but they took the ball away and stopped points. A few yrs ago, the colts were #1 in points allowed, but had issues vs the run as usual.

DocBar
08-17-2011, 10:23 PM
76texan, I enjoy ur Monday morning qb, but to say that play way more dobbins than mitchell is way off base. No matter what scheme a team play, the nt can't get blown 2 yds off the ball and allow the guard to get the lb. Dobbins couldn't fill because earl and the guard was in his lap, plain and simple as rey say. If greene had a legit burst, that's 40 or a td vs 17. I urge u to look at the 2 long runs by mcgahe and mcclain vs the cowboys a few yrs back and its a photo copy.

Center washed ratliff, rt and left guard got ilbs, fb took out safety, off to the races. when wade had williams, both pat and jamal, and big ted, you didn't see gashing, up the gut runs. Now if you want to say its ok and they have to make do, that's fine. On the 2 other good runs, cody was just as bad, if not worse. Btw, the guy has had a - rating vs the pass and the run the last 3 yrs. He brings as much to the table as okoye. The texans will have trouble stopping the run, which keeps the offense off the field. Good thing is wade has always allowed yards, but prevented points. The packers allowed a lot of rush yards, but they took the ball away and stopped points. A few yrs ago, the colts were #1 in points allowed, but had issues vs the run as usual.I'm getting this sick feeling in my stomach that I owe CnD a big "you told me so". I hate it when I have to do those.:vincepalm:

disaacks3
08-17-2011, 11:27 PM
1. Tackling (or lack thereof) - Wade's system seemed to put people in the right places for the most part, but our players weren't taking advantage - I'm talking to YOU Shiloh Keo!

2. "Special" teams - Rackers is fine, but our return and coverage teams sucked hard. Kick it 7 yds deep and it keeps making it out to the 27...REALLY??

3. Schaub - Kept looking pissed off after every throw. I hope he was mad at himself, as I refuse to believe EVERY receiver was running his routes too short.

4. Secondary - While there were certainly some moments, there's no excuse for a 7 yard cushion at the goal line. If we don't start chucking guys at the line, it's gonna be a long year.

...all this stuff is "fixable", and I honestly liked the Defense overall, but you can really tell the team hasn't had the same number of reps.

CloakNNNdagger
08-18-2011, 07:40 AM
Have we gotten so excited about our D that we've looked past the 208 passing yards surrendered Monday night to Jets rookie quarterback Greg McElroy, making him the NFL leader during the preseason in yardage?


With Sanchez's 45 yds (in only 7 snaps, only being 1 incomplete), that's a game total of 253 yds passing yds given up. Last year the Texans came in at 32nd in passing defense with 267.5 yds given up per game (253 would have gotten them to 30th).

Of course, this is only the preseason game...........just saying.......

The Pencil Neck
08-18-2011, 10:03 AM
Have we gotten so excited about our D that we've looked past the 208 passing yards surrendered Monday night to Jets rookie quarterback Greg McElroy, making him the NFL leader during the preseason in yardage?


With Sanchez's 45 yds (in only 7 snaps, only being 1 incomplete), that's a game total of 253 yds passing yds given up. Last year the Texans came in at 32nd in passing defense with 267.5 yds given up per game (253 would have gotten them to 30th).

Of course, this is only the preseason game...........just saying.......

It's a preseason game. It's the FIRST preseason game. Remember the Cardinal's game last year? Most of us were excited that we finally had a good defense. Mario, Demeco, and Cush came out and we CRUSHED the Cardinal's 1s.

So, yeah, McElroy throwing for a bunch of yards is a problem. But there are 3 things:
1) Against the 2's, he didn't do so well. He was getting crushed by the 2's. He picked up most of his yardage against the 3's.

2) McElroy ended up playing a lot longer than most QBs this past weekend. Most teams played 3 QBs so the stats were a little more evenly spread out.

3) If you look at the team stats for last week, our passing D ended up 18th giving up 210 yards passing (remember to remove sack yardage) and 17th in passer rating. BUT last year, we finished 12th in the preseason giving up 209 yards per game BUT we finished 30th in passer rating. So although we gave up the amount of yardage, we forced more negative plays.

So, it's not great. The D still needs to gel. But it looks a little better than it did.

HOU-TEX
08-18-2011, 10:13 AM
Didn't McElroy throw about 40 times in the game? That had to be more than any QB in the preseason. A lot of dinkin and dunkin

BTW, I'm not making excuses. Just surprised they threw it so much when they were running the ball pretty well. McKnight got hurt so maybe that was the issue?

burro
08-18-2011, 06:04 PM
I didn't like how everyone tried to deduce something substantive about the starters from one quarter of the first game of post-lockout preseason football.