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Rey
08-15-2011, 09:27 AM
The running back situation behind Foster intrigues me. Ward seems to have the #2 spot sewn up. After that it gets a little tricky.

By all accounts, Ben Tate is the most talented back up, but songstress he ha shown the least throughout camp. Slaton and obogannya have both been impressive. If the pre season games hold true to training camp observations, what do you do with Ben Tate?

Keep him because of his draft status/ potential? Trade him?

If slaton is looking good again and over his injuries he can produce some big, big plays in this offense. or he could be trade bait.

Would you entertain trades for ward? Would you carry 4 rb's and try to get bo27 onto the practice squad? Gonna be some painful cuts all over the place.

Kaiser Toro
08-15-2011, 09:34 AM
Keep Ward and Tate, trade Slaton. We can always find another Ogbonnaya.

CharloTex
08-15-2011, 09:36 AM
The RB situation should be perfectly clarified during the preseason. It is highly unlikely, IMHO, that we get through camp/preseason without one of the RBs being injured or demonstrating suckage. They can park the injured RB on the PUP list and postpone the decision until sometime in October I believe. Also, I think Tate can still be placed on the practice squad but he may not clear waivers to get there. He was after all a second round pick.

Playoffs
08-15-2011, 09:37 AM
This "Denver" offense needs RB numbers, IMO. You see guys go down.

Really looking forward to seeing Tate in action against ones.

Marcus
08-15-2011, 09:52 AM
What was the name of that tight end that they took in the second round that never made it onto the field because he was injured all the time.

Tate's already reminding me of him, but I can't remember his name.

Tailgate
08-15-2011, 09:53 AM
AGAIN, Tate is going nowhere and its a bit absurd to even speculate otherwise at this point.

badboy
08-15-2011, 09:55 AM
We are ok with what we have with plenty of time to look for cuts or trades. As others have said, Tate is going nowhere. Due to injury, he has not been able to show anything.

BuffaloglennTX
08-15-2011, 09:57 AM
What was the name of that tight end that they took in the second round that never made it onto the field because he was injured all the time.

Tate's already reminding me of him, but I can't remember his name.

Was it Benny Joppru?

HTown2ATX
08-15-2011, 10:00 AM
Was it Benny Joppru?


Yes, pretty sure it was.... :gun:

Marcus
08-15-2011, 10:02 AM
Was it Benny Joppru?

Yeah, that's right! Thank you!

Benny Joppru, Ben Tate, damn we gotta quit drafting these fricken Benjamins.

Tailgate
08-15-2011, 10:31 AM
Yeah, that's right! Thank you!

Benny Joppru, Ben Tate, damn we gotta quit drafting these fricken Benjamins.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83982

CloakNNNdagger
08-15-2011, 10:32 AM
For those who may have missed it, there is an entire thread on this subject.
Does Ben Tate's Situation remind you of Bennie Joppru ? (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83982)

My post in this thread:

Joppru demonstrated major injuries WITHOUT EVER BEING HIT. He suffered a sports hernia in training camp in '03, reinjured it in minicamp in '04, then tore his right ACL during the first coaching session of the offseason in May 2005.

Tate has had one major injury (caused by a tackle from behind with a violent torque of his ankle), the type of which with proper repair and adequate rehab should allow him to return at about 1 year post injury within 90% of pre-injury performance. This short offseason may prolong the typical rehab and training for that return. But it is realistic to ultimately happen.

Hopefully, the Texans will be patient with his hamstring episode, and allow for adequate rest and rehab before letting him back out there.

Joppru's case was a different animal all together. He could never get back to even practice/contact status throughout his entire professional career.

TimeKiller
08-15-2011, 11:10 AM
Some folk'll never pull a hammy but then again some folk'll. Come on folks, let's compare hamstring injuries for a RB to that one guy that made Antwaan Molden look like he was made of steel.

CloakNNNdagger
08-15-2011, 11:48 AM
The Texans entered training camp with a crowded backfield, but they’ll likely be down three key running backs in their preseason opener against the New York Jets on Monday night.

Arian Foster, Steve Slaton and Ben Tate are all expected to miss the game because of hamstring injuries. Texans coach Gary Kubiak said on Saturday morning that his team’s running back rotation will consist of Derrick Ward, Chris Ogbonnaya and newly-signed Javarris Williams.

“Tate just hasn’t come along,” Kubiak said. “Everybody thought he could – our trainers, our doctors – but he hasn’t. So, we’ll listen to him. Arian, we’ve been shooting for next week with Arian the whole time.”

Foster wouldn’t have played much anyway, since the Texans’ starters will take only 10-12 snaps against the Jets. But each preseason game could be invaluable to Slaton and Tate, who are fighting for playing time and perhaps a spot on the roster.link (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/RBs-Tate-Slaton-Foster-unlikely-to-play-against-Jets/e5612c62-7cb9-4469-8093-9d1c2f6a0f0a)

I wonder why Kubiak is calling out Tate like he's dogging it........and that's what it seems like? Is there something we don't know?

drs23
08-15-2011, 12:17 PM
link (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/RBs-Tate-Slaton-Foster-unlikely-to-play-against-Jets/e5612c62-7cb9-4469-8093-9d1c2f6a0f0a)

I wonder why Kubiak is calling out Tate like he's dogging it........and that's what it seems like? Is there something we don't know?

I've been noticing that as well. Kubiak has been riding Tate like a two bit fair pony. I've not heard GK say many, if any kind words about him. Sure seems as though Tate has made his way into the Coach's doghouse and that's never a good place to be.

Would they even consider cutting a 2nd rounder this early in his career?

TimeKiller
08-15-2011, 12:22 PM
link (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/RBs-Tate-Slaton-Foster-unlikely-to-play-against-Jets/e5612c62-7cb9-4469-8093-9d1c2f6a0f0a)

I wonder why Kubiak is calling out Tate like he's dogging it........and that's what it seems like? Is there something we don't know?

Well, you have to wonder if your roster spot was on the line, would you tough out an injury like a hamstring? I'm sure it could be done but at what point do you stop listening to the player saying 'I'm not ready'? He says no-go but I'm sure Kubiak has seen players tough out a hamstring before, so that's where he sits. Maybe it has something to do with Foster and how they handled him by comparison. Tate might think, "You shut him down for a week no questions asked but I've got the same injury and you expect me to play?"

El Tejano
08-15-2011, 12:34 PM
I think it has to do with the fact that he was drafted very high, mixed with OB27 must be really impressing, and now he's got a decision to make, combined that he already missed time last year.

Kubiak needs guys who are going to produce this year. HIS job depends on it possibly.

Also, anyone else curious about the fact that Vickers has been getting some carries in a one back formation? Vickers makes for that big body that Tate would provide to help in short yardage situations.

otisbean
08-15-2011, 12:52 PM
Well, you have to wonder if your roster spot was on the line, would you tough out an injury like a hamstring? I'm sure it could be done but at what point do you stop listening to the player saying 'I'm not ready'? He says no-go but I'm sure Kubiak has seen players tough out a hamstring before, so that's where he sits. Maybe it has something to do with Foster and how they handled him by comparison. Tate might think, "You shut him down for a week no questions asked but I've got the same injury and you expect me to play?"

There are different levels of hamstring injuries, some are minor and heal quickly and others do not. If you push an athlete to return too quickly you risk a more serious hamstring tear or additional injuries from compensation patterns. I had a hamstring injury that disappeared with a week of rest and another that took 1 month to semi- heal, I ran with a protective gait and eneded up with a groin pull because of it. I say trade Slaton and let the kid heal properly so we can see what he can do

rush2112mn
08-15-2011, 01:15 PM
I hope it is the reincarnation of benjamin bratt....i mean tate soon......sorry there was thinking of the iron maiden song.........

TexanSam
08-15-2011, 01:16 PM
What do you do with Tate if Slaton and/or Ogbonnaya outplay him? Do you cut a 2nd round pick the year after you draft him? Practice squad is unlikely because someone would probably sign him immediately.

Porky
08-15-2011, 01:19 PM
Ahh yes, I saw this one. This is where a RB is freshly drafted as an old, washed up, injury prone RB and slowly over time gets younger and less injury prone. By 2022, Tate will be playing in pee wee league. :ahhaha:

otisbean
08-15-2011, 01:22 PM
What do you do with Tate if Slaton and/or Ogbonnaya outplay him? Do you cut a 2nd round pick the year after you draft him? Practice squad is unlikely because someone would probably sign him immediately.

I think you trade Slaton, and keep 4 RBs in Ogbonnaya looks good. Ward played really well last year, BUT given his age I don't expect him to be with the team past this season.

m5kwatts
08-15-2011, 01:56 PM
By the way, is this the 5th or 6th time the "Curious Case of Benjamin Tate" thread title has been used?

Rey
08-15-2011, 02:05 PM
Ahh yes, I saw this one. This is where a RB is freshly drafted as an old, washed up, injury prone RB and slowly over time gets younger and less injury prone. By 2022, Tate will be playing in pee wee league. :ahhaha:

Lol.

Marcus
08-15-2011, 05:27 PM
I think you trade Slaton, and keep 4 RBs in Ogbonnaya looks good. Ward played really well last year, BUT given his age I don't expect him to be with the team past this season.

Trade him for what? In case y'all have forgotten, Slaton coughs up so many footballs, he could be a spokesman for Smith Brothers.

badboy
08-15-2011, 06:01 PM
IMO, you are starting season with Foster and Ward & can wait on Tate to make sure injury doesn't get worse. This is game one of PRE-season. Plenty of time.

otisbean
08-15-2011, 06:54 PM
Trade him for what? In case y'all have forgotten, Slaton coughs up so many footballs, he could be a spokesman for Smith Brothers.

Whatever you can get. Hopefully he plays well in the preseason.

HTown2ATX
08-18-2011, 09:03 AM
Tate in pads and practicing today. On the field now, as is Arian.

Also, J Joseph as well. Per Vandy and Lopez at camp on 610

Blake
08-18-2011, 09:21 AM
Tate isn't going anywhere unless he gets injured and is out for the season. Then you pay him out and cut his ass.

This team needs 4 running backs.

CloakNNNdagger
08-18-2011, 09:31 AM
Tate is out there in pads this morning!

Texas T
08-18-2011, 09:33 AM
Tate in pads and practicing today. On the field now, as is Arian.

Also, J Joseph as well. Per Vandy and Lopez at camp on 610

I'm sure this is because of what Kubs has been saying. I think this is the first time I've heard Kubs come close to calling a player out. I was kinda surprised about the disappointment he has been showing for Tate. But it was a good surprise.

Honoring Earl 34
08-18-2011, 10:05 AM
Tate is out there in pads this morning!

http://jesusfootprints.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/hallelujah.jpg

Thorn
08-18-2011, 10:12 AM
I'm happy to see these guys in pads and back out there. I'm also concerned about lingering injuries, especially hamstring issues.

Oh well, if Tate only plays two downs this season, it'll be twice what he did last year. :lol:

HuttoKarl
08-18-2011, 11:23 AM
So much piss and vinegar for a guy who's been injured through no fault of his own. There's a difference between playing "hurt" and being injured...why force the issue in the infancy of the preseason when it makes more sense to be healed?

CloakNNNdagger
08-18-2011, 11:33 AM
I'm happy to see these guys in pads and back out there. I'm also concerned about lingering injuries, especially hamstring issues.

Oh well, if Tate only plays two downs this season, it'll be twice what he did last year. :lol:

I always get concerned when the coaches appear to be pushing a previously injured player to get back on the field before the player himself feels he is ready.

Blake
08-18-2011, 11:44 AM
I always get concerned when the coaches appear to be pushing a previously injured player to get back on the field before the player himself feels he is ready.

I also do not want to see a player play before he is ready, but is Tate truly not ready, or is he being overly cautious? Not sure if Tate has ever battled back from a serious injury before. Simply just might not know how to do it.

CloakNNNdagger
08-18-2011, 12:00 PM
I also do not want to see a player play before he is ready, but is Tate truly not ready, or is he being overly cautious? Not sure if Tate has ever battled back from a serious injury before. Simply just might not know how to do it.

If I were to be wrong, I'd rather be wrong about the latter. If that left hamstring is still bothering him, he will compensate somehow placing extra stress on the opposite lower limb.......on the side of his previously repaired right ankle.

Hervoyel
08-18-2011, 12:44 PM
I think that the Texans should make every possible effort to find out if Slaton's got his groove back. If he does you have to keep him. You would be a fool to do otherwise. Getting "rookie" Steve Slaton back would be outstanding.

Foster is the starter, no question about that. Beyond Foster though you have Ward who is frankly just better than adequate. He's done a good job, I understand that but Tate needs to work out and won't go anywhere until he's proven not to. Look at how long Slaton has had to get back on track and then figure that Tate's going to get this season and probably next year to show he belongs here.

Unless someone gets hurt enough to go on the PUP or IR, or has an enormously suck preseason I would go into the season with four and quite possibly could see cutting Ward before either Tate or Slaton. IF of course Slaton is back on track.

Rey
08-18-2011, 01:02 PM
I think that the Texans should make every possible effort to find out if Slaton's got his groove back. If he does you have to keep him. You would be a fool to do otherwise. Getting "rookie" Steve Slaton back would be outstanding.

Foster is the starter, no question about that. Beyond Foster though you have Ward who is frankly just better than adequate. He's done a good job, I understand that but Tate needs to work out and won't go anywhere until he's proven not to. Look at how long Slaton has had to get back on track and then figure that Tate's going to get this season and probably next year to show he belongs here.

Unless someone gets hurt enough to go on the PUP or IR, or has an enormously suck preseason I would go into the season with four and quite possibly could see cutting Ward before either Tate or Slaton. IF of course Slaton is back on track.

Honestly, that's how I feel too. Almost word for word.

There are certain aspects of slaton's game I dislike, but the dude can catch and run and if he gets the ball in space he's dangerous.

Right now I want to take 4 backs into the season, but I need to see slaton play first.

JCTexan
08-18-2011, 01:32 PM
I think that the Texans should make every possible effort to find out if Slaton's got his groove back. If he does you have to keep him. You would be a fool to do otherwise. Getting "rookie" Steve Slaton back would be outstanding.

Foster is the starter, no question about that. Beyond Foster though you have Ward who is frankly just better than adequate. He's done a good job, I understand that but Tate needs to work out and won't go anywhere until he's proven not to. Look at how long Slaton has had to get back on track and then figure that Tate's going to get this season and probably next year to show he belongs here.

Unless someone gets hurt enough to go on the PUP or IR, or has an enormously suck preseason I would go into the season with four and quite possibly could see cutting Ward before either Tate or Slaton. IF of course Slaton is back on track.

Totally disagree. Ward was more than adequate last year as the #2 back. Would averaging 6.3 yards a carry be just above adequate? I see no way Ward doesn't make the roster, so if they keep only three RB's I would go with Foster, Ward & Tate. If they decide to keep four I would go Slaton over Ogbonnaya right now.

Hervoyel
08-18-2011, 02:08 PM
I certainly see where you're coming from JCTexan and like I said, Ward did good last year as evidenced by that gaudy ypc average you cited. He's been over 4.8 ypc in three of the last four seasons and I think you can safely chalk his one year in Tampa Bay up to a bad fit in their system. Before I got really, really comfortable with him though I'd like to see a good preseason out of him and then see him repeat that performance.

But if Steve Slaton is the guy we saw in 2008 then I take that player over Ward every time. If he's cleared that hurdle and has his fumble problem squared away then yes. I prefer him to Ward.

Truth be told I'd keep both before Tate at this point except that Tate is still riding his injured rookie season grace period. We've yet to see if Tate can be better than either of the guys you and I are talking about.

Marcus
08-18-2011, 02:13 PM
I always get concerned when the coaches appear to be pushing a previously injured player to get back on the field before the player himself feels he is ready.

Hmmm .. not sure where you're going with that, Cloak. So, if these guys "re-aggravate" their hamstrings, as I've indicated as much in another thread, that's on the coaches?

The Pencil Neck
08-18-2011, 02:17 PM
I certainly see where you're coming from JCTexan and like I said, Ward did good last year as evidenced by that gaudy ypc average you cited. He's been over 4.8 ypc in three of the last four seasons and I think you can safely chalk his one year in Tampa Bay up to a bad fit in their system. Before I got really, really comfortable with him though I'd like to see a good preseason out of him and then see him repeat that performance.

But if Steve Slaton is the guy we saw in 2008 then I take that player over Ward every time. If he's cleared that hurdle and has his fumble problem squared away then yes. I prefer him to Ward.

Truth be told I'd keep both before Tate at this point except that Tate is still riding his injured rookie season grace period. We've yet to see if Tate can be better than either of the guys you and I are talking about.

I don't.

Slaton in 2008 was the kind of runner that would get you a bunch of 1 yard runs and then randomly break a long one. He wasn't consistent enough for my taste. I'd prefer a guy that got us a more consistent 4-5 yards per carry.

I'd love for Slaton to have some good preseason games and then for us to deal him for something we have a greater need for.

beerlover
08-18-2011, 02:18 PM
Texans organization must move forward, these are tough decisions. If a player can't stay healthy, practice or play meaningful minutes it's time to move on. And I'm a big fan of Tate!

The Pencil Neck
08-18-2011, 02:30 PM
Texans organization must move forward, these are tough decisions. If a player can't stay healthy, practice or play meaningful minutes it's time to move on. And I'm a big fan of Tate!

He practiced today. He was looking good, according to reports, early in TC. I expect him to at least take the 3rd RB spot and possibly the second.

I think it's a bit early to talk about cutting him.

GP
08-18-2011, 02:46 PM
Texans organization must move forward, these are tough decisions. If a player can't stay healthy, practice or play meaningful minutes it's time to move on. And I'm a big fan of Tate!

Foster, Ward, Tate, and OgBo. Slaton in there, too, since he's still here.

Five guys we know who can play the position and do it within the parameters of the ZBL system. Why in the hell would we be talking about cutting one of those 5 guys right now?

In fact, I don't think all these hammies are as big of a deal as they're being made out to be. A guy feels soreness or strain, they say it feels funny, and they get shelved for a few days...big deal.

Let's watch the 3 remaining games, see how all 5 guys perform, and go from there.

JCTexan
08-18-2011, 03:56 PM
I certainly see where you're coming from JCTexan and like I said, Ward did good last year as evidenced by that gaudy ypc average you cited. He's been over 4.8 ypc in three of the last four seasons and I think you can safely chalk his one year in Tampa Bay up to a bad fit in their system. Before I got really, really comfortable with him though I'd like to see a good preseason out of him and then see him repeat that performance.

But if Steve Slaton is the guy we saw in 2008 then I take that player over Ward every time. If he's cleared that hurdle and has his fumble problem squared away then yes. I prefer him to Ward.

Truth be told I'd keep both before Tate at this point except that Tate is still riding his injured rookie season grace period. We've yet to see if Tate can be better than either of the guys you and I are talking about.

It's not that I don't like Slaton. He actually had a better ypc rate last year than he did in 2008. I think he's a valuable #3 RB, and would be quite fine with him if I didn't trust Ward more. Tate has too much potential right now, and he's a 2nd round pick who has yet to play. I don't see them cutting Tate because of his potential or Ward because of how valuable he was as a backup last year. So unless there's an injury or they decide to keep four RB's I don't foresee Slaton making the roster.

Foster, Ward, Tate, and OgBo. Slaton in there, too, since he's still here.

Five guys we know who can play the position and do it within the parameters of the ZBL system. Why in the hell would we be talking about cutting one of those 5 guys right now?

In fact, I don't think all these hammies are as big of a deal as they're being made out to be. A guy feels soreness or strain, they say it feels funny, and they get shelved for a few days...big deal.

Let's watch the 3 remaining games, see how all 5 guys perform, and go from there.

What else are we going to discuss? Football is finally here and this team has to get down to 53 players by opening day. There are likely only going to be 3 or 4 RB's making the roster, which means somebody is not going to make it. When would you like us to talk about it? Opening day when the decision is already made?

GuerillaBlack
08-21-2011, 11:54 AM
So, I guess the case has been solved?

JCTexan
08-21-2011, 12:11 PM
So, I guess the case has been solved?

About Tate? Yes. And if Houston doesn't keep four RB's it looks all but settled there too.

DocBar
08-21-2011, 12:21 PM
It's not that I don't like Slaton. He actually had a better ypc rate last year than he did in 2008. I think he's a valuable #3 RB, and would be quite fine with him if I didn't trust Ward more. Tate has too much potential right now, and he's a 2nd round pick who has yet to play. I don't see them cutting Tate because of his potential or Ward because of how valuable he was as a backup last year. So unless there's an injury or they decide to keep four RB's I don't foresee Slaton making the roster.



What else are we going to discuss? Football is finally here and this team has to get down to 53 players by opening day. There are likely only going to be 3 or 4 RB's making the roster, which means somebody is not going to make it. When would you like us to talk about it? Opening day when the decision is already made?Why would we not trust Ward anymore? As far as SS goes, he was used very sparingly last season and it's easy to have a higher ypc with fewer touches than with more. I'm not at all sold on SS making the team. My biggest problem is that he fumbles the bleeping ball too much. He's had that problem his entire career, including college. I'm fine with 3 RB's and keeping a 5th WR.

JCTexan
08-21-2011, 12:27 PM
Why would we not trust Ward anymore? As far as SS goes, he was used very sparingly last season and it's easy to have a higher ypc with fewer touches than with more. I'm not at all sold on SS making the team. My biggest problem is that he fumbles the bleeping ball too much. He's had that problem his entire career, including college. I'm fine with 3 RB's and keeping a 5th WR.

I don't know if this is just a question or if you mistook my post, so I will clarify: I was simply saying I trust Ward more than Slaton.

DocBar
08-21-2011, 12:56 PM
I don't know if this is just a question or if you mistook my post, so I will clarify: I was simply saying I trust Ward more than Slaton.I guess I misunderstood you.