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beerlover
08-15-2011, 12:38 AM
Who is the one player in danger of being cut that you hope the Texans keep & why?

WR is an obvious position in both young talent, depth & need. This roster decision could be a key move down the line in a couple years so its imperative Kubiak & his assistants come together & make the right decision. Andre Johnson, Jacoby Jones & Kevin Walter already locked in 1-2-3. WR roster positions 4-5 are up for grabs.

As much as I like 2010 6th rd. pick Trindon Holiday & 7th rd. pick Dorin Dickerson I feel they've been unable to prove themselves as important members of this team moving forward, unless they really standout & produce this pre-season, otherwise its probably practice squad for them?

Derrick Townsel & Terrence Toliver will be cut in a numbers game early & be allowed to catch on with another team.

By releasing fan favorite David Anderson Kubiak opened the door for another slot type of WR, one that I feel confident will turnout to be ready is Jeff Maehl, undrafted rookie from Oregon. Texan fans are going to love this kid, very aware with great intangibles.

My diamond in the rough however, is Lestar Jean, Florida Atlantic, 6030 212. Specialist in over the head catch, red zone target, a willing blocker & someone who can hold up physically including special teams. Eventually I beleive he will move his way up the depth chart, remember too this is Andre Johnson's 9th season & another big play, red zone target helps relieve some of the pressure off Andre. He reminds me a little of Marques Colston how he can control his body, adjust to the ball in air, letting his natural instincts take over in pressure situations. :twocents:


Andre Johnson
Jacoby Jones
Kevin Walter
Lestar Jean
Jeff Maehl

aussie_texan
08-15-2011, 12:55 AM
by all accounts DD has been performing very well at camp, extremely doubtful he gets dropped.
holiday has no chance.
Jean will make the squad.
Toliver even though he hasn't had a great camp i think they will try keep him on the PS but someone else will take a chance on him before we can do that.

Rey
08-15-2011, 01:00 AM
I don't even want to think about roster cuts.

GP
08-15-2011, 01:34 AM
Who is the one player in danger of being cut that you hope the Texans keep & why?

WR is an obvious position in both young talent, depth & need. This roster decision could be a key move down the line in a couple years so its imperative Kubiak & his assistants come together & make the right decision. Andre Johnson, Jacoby Jones & Kevin Walter already locked in 1-2-3. WR roster positions 4-5 are up for grabs.

As much as I like 2010 6th rd. pick Trindon Holiday & 7th rd. pick Dorin Dickerson I feel they've been unable to prove themselves as important members of this team moving forward, unless they really standout & produce this pre-season, otherwise its probably practice squad for them?

Derrick Townsel & Terrence Toliver will be cut in a numbers game early & be allowed to catch on with another team.

By releasing fan favorite David Anderson Kubiak opened the door for another slot type of WR, one that I feel confident will turnout to be ready is Jeff Maehl, undrafted rookie from Oregon. Texan fans are going to love this kid, very aware with great intangibles.

My diamond in the rough however, is Jean Lestar, Florida Atlantic, 6030 212. Specialist in over the head catch, red zone target, a willing blocker & someone who can hold up physically including special teams. Eventually I beleive he will move his way up the depth chart, remember too this is Andre Johnson's 9th season & another big play, red zone target helps relieve some of the pressure off Andre. He reminds me a little of Marques Colston how he can control his body, adjust to the ball in air, letting his natural instincts take over in pressure situations. :twocents:


Andre Johnson
Jacoby Jones
Kevin Walter
Jean Lestar
Jeff Maehl


Much respect to your knowledge of college players (I know you keep a close watch on recruits all year long).

But I don't agree that DD slips off the 53 man, much less onto our PS. If he is waived, he gets claimed. FAST.

AJ, KW, JJ, DD, and Lestar Jean will be the 5 WRs.

Townsel has, reportedly, some ST skills and Kubiak might want to put him on Joe Ma's ST squad as an emergency 6th WR in case we get depleted as the season wears on.

Maehl and Toliver, IMO, are going to be two guys whom the Texans waive and claim and place on PS. Remember this, guys: The Texans have a good shot at retaining UDFAs like Toliver and Maehl because they came in off-the-radar (via UDFA route) and they know the Texans system...which is something the other 31 teams will do, too--The other 31 teams will pass on taking most other teams' cuts because each team wants to retain its own guys they cut, because their own guys put in the work and know the system and can be plug-and-play IF NEEDED in the reg season. No need in going after other teams' cuts who might not fit your team and will be behind on learning your plays, the signals, the style, the rapport with the teammates, coaches, etc.

I just don't think Maehl and Toliver pose a risk to be claimed like Lestar Jean does. They are GOOD, but there are 62 other Maehls and Tolivers out there who are going to get cut and then brought back on PS (31 teams x 2 guys at WR who get cut, but brought back for PS = 62 similar type WRs).

I think this is why Kubiak doesn't mind going with only 5 WRs. He knows he's getting a 6th WR on Joe Ma's ST squad, and he'll bring back at least 1 or 2 more WRs (Toliver and Maehl) onto the PS.

The only kicker here, is if Kubiak has a hard-on for a David Anderson type slot guy--small, quick cutting, slant and curl guy--and to me, that's where things could get goofy on us. Personally, I think it's time we left behind that philosophy that we need a Wes Welker, Amendola, David Anderson type guy. Go for reach, height, vertical, bigger body frame if you're going to put a WR out there. I just think it's time to abandon that sacred "little guy" idea.

El Tejano
08-15-2011, 08:07 AM
The only kicker here, is if Kubiak has a hard-on for a David Anderson type slot guy--small, quick cutting, slant and curl guy--and to me, that's where things could get goofy on us. Personally, I think it's time we left behind that philosophy that we need a Wes Welker, Amendola, David Anderson type guy. Go for reach, height, vertical, bigger body frame if you're going to put a WR out there. I just think it's time to abandon that sacred "little guy" idea.

Agreed. To me, if we could get one of the guys behind Walter to step up, Walter becomes a very explosive slot guy. He runs precise routes and he has good hands.

TimeKiller
08-15-2011, 08:27 AM
I don't think a guy who physically resembles AJ has much of a chance of getting beat out by rookies unless he just falls flat on his face. Dickerson has to work but the guy will be productive sooner than later. He could turn out to be AJ v.2, I'm not willing to let that slip just yet...

aj, kw, jj, dd, ?

Assuming they roll with 5, who makes the last spot? I think the most impressive figure at camp has been L-Jean, at least there has been more noise about him than any other udfa WR. Game time will matter though, so I'm sure they'd like to see him produce when the bullets go live.

Maehl, IMO, would make it if they ran 6 deep, which is totally possible. Maehl might even make the 5 on the basis that with AJ, KW, JJ, DD Jean isn't really bringing anything different. Maehl IS that quick, little guy who will get open, catch the ball and run for a few yards.

Interesting stuff.

painekiller
08-15-2011, 10:26 AM
From being out at the practices, DD seems to be a lock. Jean is ahead of the other UDFA guys, but not by much. Maehl has looked solid. He catches everything, and he just has a knack for getting open. Maehl should be on the PS at the very least.

I agree that Toliver is interesting but he has not had the camp that Jean and Maehl have had.

Holiday is gone, unless he blows up a few punts during the games. Then he might be trade bait.

badboy
08-15-2011, 10:39 AM
Everyone is talking WR but I re-read the first two sentences in the thread and am going with a different position. Sherrick McMannis is my player and I think cornerback has some of the same issues all are talking about at receiver.

beerlover
08-15-2011, 11:13 AM
Much respect to your knowledge of college players (I know you keep a close watch on recruits all year long).

But I don't agree that DD slips off the 53 man, much less onto our PS. If he is waived, he gets claimed. FAST.

AJ, KW, JJ, DD, and Lestar Jean will be the 5 WRs.

Townsel has, reportedly, some ST skills and Kubiak might want to put him on Joe Ma's ST squad as an emergency 6th WR in case we get depleted as the season wears on.

Maehl and Toliver, IMO, are going to be two guys whom the Texans waive and claim and place on PS. Remember this, guys: The Texans have a good shot at retaining UDFAs like Toliver and Maehl because they came in off-the-radar (via UDFA route) and they know the Texans system...which is something the other 31 teams will do, too--The other 31 teams will pass on taking most other teams' cuts because each team wants to retain its own guys they cut, because their own guys put in the work and know the system and can be plug-and-play IF NEEDED in the reg season. No need in going after other teams' cuts who might not fit your team and will be behind on learning your plays, the signals, the style, the rapport with the teammates, coaches, etc.

I just don't think Maehl and Toliver pose a risk to be claimed like Lestar Jean does. They are GOOD, but there are 62 other Maehls and Tolivers out there who are going to get cut and then brought back on PS (31 teams x 2 guys at WR who get cut, but brought back for PS = 62 similar type WRs).

I think this is why Kubiak doesn't mind going with only 5 WRs. He knows he's getting a 6th WR on Joe Ma's ST squad, and he'll bring back at least 1 or 2 more WRs (Toliver and Maehl) onto the PS.

The only kicker here, is if Kubiak has a hard-on for a David Anderson type slot guy--small, quick cutting, slant and curl guy--and to me, that's where things could get goofy on us. Personally, I think it's time we left behind that philosophy that we need a Wes Welker, Amendola, David Anderson type guy. Go for reach, height, vertical, bigger body frame if you're going to put a WR out there. I just think it's time to abandon that sacred "little guy" idea.

From your valued comments, is Jeff Maehl then your Diamond in the Rough? They have a guy on from NY right now (610) who just talked about how Texans have built their WR corp the right way, everyone knows their roles. Nobody is crying for touches, Andre sets the tone & leads by example, everyone else blocks, plays special teams & supports passing game around him. This is Why I choose this route despite both Holliday & Dickerson being worthy developmental prospects. Its based not just on talent but how they compliment & fit with players already on team.

Maehl is a "Diamond in the rough" because people don't know his college career with Oregon. I know what he is & think he is capable in this system of being another Kevin Walter (will need to add strength & size to his frame) but can assume David Anderson role because he can best replicate that style now. We can discuss Dickersons athletic ability all day & I could easily buy him being labeled as a player who is still a "Diamond in the Rough". Yet even when Andre was shutdown end of last season he never made the progress in practice to make meaningful impact in actual games. I asked myself, WHY? many, many many times & this is how I rationalized it- Dorin Dickerson is a dynamic, athletic physical specimen who is a TE (stuck on a team loaded @ his position) being converted to WR @ the highest level of competition. So I'm not going to even argue with your feeling he will not be cut, that's a trait of Kubiak, his loyalty to players. Lestar Jean is proving, very early on, he is a pure WR with a dynamic skill set that transcends to the next level.

Place Maehl, Dickerson or Jean on PS they're gone. I chose to put Dickerson out there because he is taking longer to develop (changing positions) Maehl is ready to contribute immediately & Jean is a "Diamond in the Rough" who compliments Andre Johnson best. Keeping thee QB's plus other tough roster cuts, I just can't see the Texans keeping 6 WR's?

281
08-15-2011, 11:19 AM
sorry dude... dorin is a lock.

beerlover
08-15-2011, 11:20 AM
Everyone is talking WR but I re-read the first two sentences in the thread and am going with a different position. Sherrick McMannis is my player and I think cornerback has some of the same issues all are talking about at receiver.

Good one. McMannis is caught in a tight battle for a roster spot. I would give him an edge over Brice McCain if for no other reason he has better size. "Roc" Carmichael going on PUP may save him though. McMannis, in this scheme, as a "Diamond in the Rough" a definite possibility.

beerlover
08-15-2011, 11:22 AM
sorry dude... dorin is a lock.

then Texans will keep 6 WR? or do they put Maehl/Jean on PS?

badboy
08-15-2011, 11:24 AM
Good one. McMannis is caught in a tight battle for a roster spot. I would give him an edge over Brice McCain if for no other reason he has better size. "Roc" Carmichael going on PUP may save him though. McMannis, in this scheme, as a "Diamond in the Rough" a definite possibility.WHoa, I missed this. What happened to Carmichael? I think McCain is going to be gone.

76Texan
08-15-2011, 11:24 AM
From your valued comments, is Jeff Maehl then your Diamond in the Rough? They have a guy on from NY right now (610) who just talked about how Texans have built their WR corp the right way, everyone knows their roles. Nobody is crying for touches, Andre sets the tone & leads by example, everyone else blocks, plays special teams & supports passing game around him. This is Why I choose this route despite both Holliday & Dickerson being worthy developmental prospects. Its based not just on talent but how they compliment & fit with players already on team.

Maehl is a "Diamond in the rough" because people don't know his college career with Oregon. I know what he is & think he is capable in this system of being another Kevin Walter (will need to add strength & size to his frame) but can assume David Anderson role because he can best replicate that style now. We can discuss Dickersons athletic ability all day & I could easily buy him being labeled as a player who is still a "Diamond in the Rough". Yet even when Andre was shutdown end of last season he never made the progress in practice to make meaningful impact in actual games. I asked myself, WHY? many, many many times & this is how I rationalized it- Dorin Dickerson is a dynamic, athletic physical specimen who is a TE (stuck on a team loaded @ his position) being converted to WR @ the highest level of competition. So I'm not going to even argue with your feeling he will not be cut, that's a trait of Kubiak, his loyalty to players. Lestar Jean is proving, very early on, he is a pure WR with a dynamic skill set that transcends to the next level.

Place Maehl, Dickerson or Jean on PS they're gone. I chose to put Dickerson out there because he is taking longer to develop (changing positions) Maehl is ready to contribute immediately & Jean is a "Diamond in the Rough" who compliments Andre Johnson best. Keeping thee QB's plus other tough roster cuts, I just can't see the Texans keeping 6 WR's?

It's just difficult to pick two out of these four.

281
08-15-2011, 11:24 AM
then Texans will keep 6 WR? or do they put Maehl/Jean on PS?

i think either maehl/jean will be put on PS.

jaayteetx
08-15-2011, 11:25 AM
sorry dude... dorin is a lock.

what he said

beerlover
08-15-2011, 11:27 AM
WHoa, I missed this. What happened to Carmichael? I think McCain is going to be gone.

I believe he separated his shoulder which would put him back around time Texans would need to designate status. I'm projecting they keep him & stash him away on PUP while secondary shakes itself out.

rmartin65
08-15-2011, 11:31 AM
Nice thread topic.

This sucks to say, but we there is a solid chance the Texans lose a talented young receiver- Dickerson, Jean, Maehl, Holliday (yep, still holding onto the pick until I see some preseason snaps).

I think Dickerson is a lock for the team. He has freakish athleticism, can contribute on ST due to his experience as both a LB and a TE, and by all accounts is having a good camp.

The real competition is between Maehl and Jean. Maehl gives the Texans a sure handed route-runner with excellent body control, while Jean is a more explosive player. They fill different holes, but only one will make it. I gave the nod to Maehl earlier, but Jean is blowing the socks off of people. I really cant say who will make it, but I hope the other guy lands on the PS.

Holliday is an interesting player to project. He brings the breakaway return ability that the other guys dont. I think if Holliday makes the team, the Texans go with 6 WRs, meaning one of Maehl/Jean make the team.

beerlover
08-15-2011, 11:32 AM
i think either maehl/jean will be put on PS.

Original question.
Who is the one player in danger of being cut that you hope the Texans keep & why?
Let me rephrase this.
So out of all the players who don't make the cut, who is the diamond in the rough?

badboy
08-15-2011, 11:34 AM
Nice thread topic.

This sucks to say, but we there is a solid chance the Texans lose a talented young receiver- Dickerson, Jean, Maehl, Holliday (yep, still holding onto the pick until I see some preseason snaps).

I think Dickerson is a lock for the team. He has freakish athleticism, can contribute on ST due to his experience as both a LB and a TE, and by all accounts is having a good camp.

The real competition is between Maehl and Jean. Maehl gives the Texans a sure handed route-runner with excellent body control, while Jean is a more explosive player. They fill different holes, but only one will make it. I gave the nod to Maehl earlier, but Jean is blowing the socks off of people. I really cant say who will make it, but I hope the other guy lands on the PS.

Holliday is an interesting player to project. He brings the breakaway return ability that the other guys dont. I think if Holliday makes the team, the Texans go with 6 WRs, meaning one of Maehl/Jean make the team.
Trindon need to exhibit some of the skills we drafted him on our mock.

badboy
08-15-2011, 11:35 AM
I believe he separated his shoulder which would put him back around time Texans would need to designate status. I'm projecting they keep him & stash him away on PUP while secondary shakes itself out.I had him making final roster, this will shake it up a bit. Did not know about the shoulder.

76Texan
08-15-2011, 11:35 AM
I believe he separated his shoulder which would put him back around time Texans would need to designate status. I'm projecting they keep him & stash him away on PUP while secondary shakes itself out.

The Roc needs a year to build himself into a rock! :lol:

Seriously, I do think that Carmichael needs to build up his strenght and to learn to play more physical.

Somebody finally realizes that McCain's lack of size is not helping him :)

281
08-15-2011, 11:42 AM
Original question.

Let me rephrase this.

interesting question. i really don't know. perhaps jean.

beerlover
08-15-2011, 12:19 PM
I really liked Shelly Smith last year, was dissapointed when he was placed on PS instead of active roster, but he passed through waivers & is still with the team (PS). They also drafted Derek Newton this year OG/OT. This is an interesting battle too throwing Studdard/Brisiel into equation. Newton is another "Diamond in the Rough" & Texans invested a pick on him, but is he more battle ready than Shelly Smith? Once again gotta throw in Kubiak loyalty to current roster players. :hmmm:

GP
08-15-2011, 01:14 PM
Maehl would be the "Roster CUT Diamond In The Rough."

Toliver might be a close 2nd.

I just don't see putting Maehl on the 53 man roster because he's the new David Anderson or something. It looks like we're going bigger at WR. Which, if Schaub continues to loft deep passes instead of hitting guys in stride...we need leapers who can outreach CBs and Safeties.

We need guys near the goal line who can go up and get a tall pass and haul it in.

And I think Holliday gets cut in favor of some other guy who will be primarily a ST squad guy (Maehl or Townsel getting that spot, for example). And then Holliday will be on the PS again. Just keep holding onto him as long as we can.

Remember: Holliday spent every damn day last years camp being in Kubiak's doghouse for fumbling and lack of big play ability in the return game.

CretorFrigg
08-15-2011, 01:21 PM
I don't believe Dorin Dickerson is going to be cut. There's too much talent and potential there to part ways with him. He's big and quick with great hands and reminds me of Andre Johnson.

If you guys have forgotten, here's an amazing catch Dickerson made in the preseason last year that flashed his speed and great hands: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf8pkmagg5c

1. Andre Johnson
2a. Kevin Walter
2b. Jacoby Jones
4. Dorin Dickerson
5. Jean or Maehl

Trindon Holliday is the odd man out. He's got great speed but his size won't cut it in the NFL. He's listed generously at 5'5", but in reality, he's probably around 5'3" or 5'4". As a KR, he has to be able to hold on to the ball. At his size, it seems almost impossible for him to manage to do that with a 250 lb. linebacker sprinting full-speed towards him without getting hurt.

The Pencil Neck
08-15-2011, 02:06 PM
then Texans will keep 6 WR? or do they put Maehl/Jean on PS?

I said early on in another thread, I expect us to keep 6 WR. I think DD is a lock.

I still don't know who gets those two spots, though. We've got 4 guys fighting for those 2 spots: Maehl, Jean, Toliver, and Townsel.

I can't wait to see them play.

beerlover
08-15-2011, 02:10 PM
Maehl would be the "Roster CUT Diamond In The Rough."

Toliver might be a close 2nd.

I just don't see putting Maehl on the 53 man roster because he's the new David Anderson or something. It looks like we're going bigger at WR. Which, if Schaub continues to loft deep passes instead of hitting guys in stride...we need leapers who can outreach CBs and Safeties.

We need guys near the goal line who can go up and get a tall pass and haul it in.

And I think Holliday gets cut in favor of some other guy who will be primarily a ST squad guy (Maehl or Townsel getting that spot, for example). And then Holliday will be on the PS again. Just keep holding onto him as long as we can.

Remember: Holliday spent every damn day last years camp being in Kubiak's doghouse for fumbling and lack of big play ability in the return game.

I thought they used PUP designation on Holiday last season because of hand surgery?

GP
08-15-2011, 02:56 PM
I thought they used PUP designation on Holiday last season because of hand surgery?

They did, but was thinking you could PS someone for up to like 3 years or as long as they had not accrued a certain number of Active Roster games, whichever came first???

I admit that it would be nice to have a sticky thread about Practice Squad rules. I ask for it every year (to be stickied). Everybody is about to start asking 1,000 questions about it when cuts start happening. It's a TexansTalk tradition. LOL.

beerlover
08-16-2011, 01:05 PM
Bryan Braman, undrafted rookie out of West Texas A&M impressed me last night. Has the makings of a "Diamond in the Rough". Great first step off snap count uses good leverage & body lean to cut under & around his man.

Jean did nothing but reaffirm his status as someone the Texans cannot cut or place on the PS. He is next to Andre the Texans WR with the most ability to make difficult catches & adjust to the ball in mid-flight.

michaelm
08-16-2011, 06:25 PM
AJ
KW
JJ
DD
Lestar Jean

I don't think Kubes wants to go into the season with two of his top five receivers being UDFA rookies, so DD makes the team regardless of what the rooks do.
As far as Jean is concerned, he is clearly the most talented of the group of rookies, and makes the team despite how any other player fits the mold, or suits the system.
I suppose it might be true that Kubes wants a DA type of player, but I just can't see any of the other guys being good enough to beat out Jean.

beerlover
08-16-2011, 07:17 PM
AJ
KW
JJ
DD
Lestar Jean

I don't think Kubes wants to go into the season with two of his top five receivers being UDFA rookies, so DD makes the team regardless of what the rooks do.
As far as Jean is concerned, he is clearly the most talented of the group of rookies, and makes the team despite how any other player fits the mold, or suits the system.
I suppose it might be true that Kubes wants a DA type of player, but I just can't see any of the other guys being good enough to beat out Jean.

Yeah, really like Maehl but he needs more time to develop & get stronger. Not strong enough to block & seal the edge. Holliday needs to get back out there & at least show some return skills, special teams look deceidley worse than Jets with their rookie return man.

beerlover
08-20-2011, 12:46 PM
Given arguements discussed in the 53 man roster thread lets throw TJ Yates into the discussion as well. If Texans lose him via practice squad & he turns up a couple years from now as the starter of another team, we can all remember this point in time as reference for a "Diamond in the Rough" who got away. As we head into another pre-season game another opportunity to sit & judge I suppose. For now this is BL's list, those young guns who make it & those who do not.


LeStar Jean, WR
Bryan Braman, OLB
TJ Yates, QB
Chris Ogbonnaya, RB


practice squad - Jeff Mahel WR, Steven Friday OLB, John Graves DE, Tori Williams S, Jason Teague CB

vupac1
08-20-2011, 02:57 PM
Given arguements discussed in the 53 man roster thread lets throw TJ Yates into the discussion as well. If Texans lose him via practice squad & he turns up a couple years from now as the starter of another team, we can all remember this point in time as reference for a "Diamond in the Rough" who got away. As we head into another pre-season game another opportunity to sit & judge I suppose. For now this is BL's list, those young guns who make it & those who do not.


LeStar Jean, WR
Bryan Braman, OLB
TJ Yates, QB
Chris Ogbonnaya, RB


practice squad - Jeff Mahel WR, Steven Friday OLB, John Graves DE, Tori Williams S, Jason Teague CB


I didn't read the other thread, but I'll say that there is absolutely no way TJ Yates is getting waived.

I'm fairly certain that he is the FO's QB of the future and will be groomed for now slowly as the QB3, and while Leinart gets showcased as a very serviceable backup with potential to start he will be traded for something whenever we feel Yates is ready to be QB2, ala a Kevin Kolb type deal