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drs23
08-12-2011, 04:04 PM
Vance Joseph on Brandon Harris:

High football I.Q.
He's performed in practice like he belongs garnering attention and the praise of cornerbacks coach Vance Joseph - and put himself in position to get playing time this season.

"He's showed that he has a high football I.Q. and good instincts on the field lately," Vance Joseph said. "He's above his time and plays like a veteran so that inside nickel spot is going to be his."

Thought this was pretty telling. I know alot of folks here were really excited about Rick Smith moving back into the2nd to get him. Sounding more and more like a great move all the time.

Read more: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7694103.html#ixzz1UqnKsRRr

Rey
08-12-2011, 05:16 PM
Damn. The nickel spot is his.

That's a pretty strong statement. Looks like everyone else, besides he and Joseph, will have to get in where they fit in.

Competition for that outside corner spot just got a little more heated.

Harris may indeed be the starter sooner rather than later. He would probably still slide into the nickel though. But Saying that the nickel spot is his speaks volumes.

Dutchrudder
08-12-2011, 05:25 PM
We got Harris late in the 2nd round, and prior to the draft, many mocks had him as a borderline 1st. He was a great value for the cost of our 3rd and 5th. I'm glad to see he was worth it, and I hope he continues to improve and impress the coaches.

welsh texan
08-12-2011, 05:26 PM
Well all the signs are bad for KJ, which is good for our team, the possibility that you're #1 CB from last year might not even be #3 this year, that kind of improvement in monumental and something any team would be ecstatic to achieve in 1 year.

I still have this nagging doubt that the Texans might do something crazy like keep on starting him year after year in the hope that he turns the corner and gets better, but now that kubes isn't in control of the D i'm fully hopeful that the best man will start.

If Kjax does start, he'd better do well because for all Jason Allen's faults if you take him out of the lineup you are losing a huge turnover potential that all things being equal could be worth a W or 2 come the end of the season.

thunderkyss
08-12-2011, 07:35 PM
Well all the signs are bad for KJ, which is good for our team, the possibility that you're #1 CB from last year might not even be #3 this year, that kind of improvement in monumental and something any team would be ecstatic to achieve in 1 year.

I still have this nagging doubt that the Texans might do something crazy like keep on starting him year after year in the hope that he turns the corner and gets better, but now that kubes isn't in control of the D i'm fully hopeful that the best man will start.

If Kjax does start, he'd better do well because for all Jason Allen's faults if you take him out of the lineup you are losing a huge turnover potential that all things being equal could be worth a W or 2 come the end of the season.

Brandon Harris being firmly in the lead for the nickel position says nothing about KJac not being the #2. I think maybe we are getting ahead of ourselves.

I also think anyone who thinks Brandon Harris is the perfect nickel is way off. Glover Quin was the perfect nickel. Kareem is more like Quin than Harris is, so Kareem is the perfect nickel.

Harris is more like Joseph, a true cover corner.

If they kick Jackson in on nickel situations like they did Glover, then that will be a bad sign for Jackson, IMO.

So watch for that Monday night.

badboy
08-12-2011, 08:46 PM
Brandon Harris being firmly in the lead for the nickel position says nothing about KJac not being the #2. I think maybe we are getting ahead of ourselves.

I also think anyone who thinks Brandon Harris is the perfect nickel is way off. Glover Quin was the perfect nickel. Kareem is more like Quin than Harris is, so Kareem is the perfect nickel.

Harris is more like Joseph, a true cover corner.

If they kick Jackson in on nickel situations like they did Glover, then that will be a bad sign for Jackson, IMO.

So watch for that Monday night.Way to go TK! I agree 100% & think Jackson might follow Quin to safety both as a position and for his career. As a back up with less stress, KJ could work on safety and corner skills.

Rey
08-12-2011, 09:04 PM
Brandon Harris being firmly in the lead for the nickel position says nothing about KJac not being the #2. I think maybe we are getting ahead of ourselves.

I also think anyone who thinks Brandon Harris is the perfect nickel is way off. Glover Quin was the perfect nickel. Kareem is more like Quin than Harris is, so Kareem is the perfect nickel.

Harris is more like Joseph, a true cover corner.

If they kick Jackson in on nickel situations like they did Glover, then that will be a bad sign for Jackson, IMO.

So watch for that Monday night.

I disagree.

The coach didn't say Harris was in the lead. He said the spot is his. Huge difference. That means that he has been consistently better than every other candidate.

Either way, Kareem isn't going to the nickel and he's not going to safety. If he doesn't win the starting job he's likely going to the bench and special teams. He has two guys challenging him for his spot.

The excuse time is over for kjax. Time for him to put up. Hopefully he can play to the level of expectations, but if he can't he's just going to be a bench rider/spot duty.

srrono
08-12-2011, 09:27 PM
My biggest concern with KJax is is lack of speed or recovery speed that cant be taught so this may prove to be a dead pick.

badboy
08-12-2011, 09:39 PM
My biggest concern with KJax is is lack of speed or recovery speed that cant be taught so this may prove to be a dead pick.It is my opinion, he does have recovery speed, it is a psychological delay that is his downfall. When he misses a bump or gets flummoxed by a WR he mentally kicks himself that split second before turning on the "recovery" burners. Not sure if he can get past this. I think he'd do better playing off the WR a couple feet rather than bumping.

76Texan
08-13-2011, 12:43 AM
Brandon Harris being firmly in the lead for the nickel position says nothing about KJac not being the #2. I think maybe we are getting ahead of ourselves.

I also think anyone who thinks Brandon Harris is the perfect nickel is way off. Glover Quin was the perfect nickel. Kareem is more like Quin than Harris is, so Kareem is the perfect nickel.

Harris is more like Joseph, a true cover corner.

If they kick Jackson in on nickel situations like they did Glover, then that will be a bad sign for Jackson, IMO.

So watch for that Monday night.

Remember that I said Harris looks like Jackson's younger brother.
Both Harris (Miami) and Jackson (Alabama) played in the pattern matching concept in coverage.
Joseph played in the same system with the Bengals.

This is what Wade employs in his coverage scheme.

The reason Harris seems like a cover corner to you is because in that coverage, he would lock on a receiver and follows him like in man coverage.

In this system, one or both of the safeties (especially the FS) can be free to make plays (on occasions).
This is why Wade's safety tandem averaged nearly 6 INTs per year (and that included all the years he didn't have good safeties on the roster); something the Texans never had.

The safety tandem from Alabama had 11 INTs last year, and the duo from the Hurricanes had 6.

silvrhand
08-13-2011, 02:31 AM
My biggest concern with KJax is is lack of speed or recovery speed that cant be taught so this may prove to be a dead pick.

Brandon Harris was actually slower than KJ in the 40 @ the combine..

Wolf6151
08-13-2011, 02:50 AM
I think the fact that Harris is playing very well and might be the nickle, Allen seems to be playing well and might be the CB2, and the fact that Joseph will be CB1 means that the Texans can afford to be a little patient with KJ and that KJ will have good CB's around him to learn from along with much better coaching. Like many other players KJ looks to be one of those players that takes some time to develope. Lets be patient with him and be very glad that Harris is a Texan.

fiasco west
08-13-2011, 06:28 AM
I'm just happy there is so much competition all over the field. So now guys know that lackluster play should mean that they will not be a Texan for long. Last year Kareem and Quinn were locked into their spots and really, what was behind them was not much better if at all.

Not only at the CB spot but even at the WR spot we seem to have a lot of comp there...just all over the field. That is a good thing, and the only rookie we will be starting I think is Watt. Harris playing the nickle is what Kareem should have done last year but our lack of talent forced him to literally be a key player and thats asking a lot of a rookie CB.

rmartin65
08-13-2011, 06:28 AM
Brandon Harris was actually slower than KJ in the 40 @ the combine..

Track speed does not equal football speed.

LikeMike
08-13-2011, 06:51 AM
I don`t really know much about DB rotations, but even if KJax isn`t starting at CB1, CB2, CB3 - wouldn`t he still get much playing time backing all those spots up? In the end, it`s only good that we actually have a competition at this spot this year - let`s not forget we still have some other guys competing for playing time. Someone should step up and be a competent #2 opposite Joseph.

Rey
08-13-2011, 09:26 AM
Track speed does not equal football speed.

Not only that but the forty doesn't take into account instincts and the ability to diagnose plays.

leebigeztx
08-13-2011, 11:02 AM
I was at the Friday open practice and he has shown he's the 3rd best corner on the team. His acceleration out of the break, and aggression are really good. In this league today, the 3rd corner is a starter because he plays 60% of the snaps. That's more tha the sam. To me, kareem is a cover 2 corner. His transition out of his break is ok when the play is in front of him, but when he comes out the backpedal on a 9 route, its not good.

thunderkyss
08-13-2011, 12:11 PM
I disagree.

The coach didn't say Harris was in the lead. He said the spot is his. Huge difference. That means that he has been consistently better than every other candidate.

We went back into the second round to get him. There is no way he will not play significant minutes. His draft spot makes him the nickel, period. Any "camp competition" is a farce.

My point was Harris being the nickel isn't saying much... he was expected to be the nickel. If he gets moved into the #2 spot, then we're saying something.

Or are you surprised that Harris has beaten out McMannis, Moulden, Carmichael & McCain?

If you answer yes you are surprised, my response is "Really?"

Either way, Kareem isn't going to the nickel and he's not going to safety. If he doesn't win the starting job he's likely going to the bench and special teams. He has two guys challenging him for his spot.

Allen is a scrub, his best days are behind him. If he is truly challenging Jackson for a spot, things don't look good for KJac.

& I'm fine with that.

Don't believe it, but it matters not to me if KJac is on the field or not. I only want the best options out there at game day.

Harris IMO is the only true competition for Jackson. I think he looked better coming out of college than Jackson did. I think the heat is on Jackson & it's coming from Harris. I don't see Allen as a viable #2.

The excuse time is over for kjax. Time for him to put up. Hopefully he can play to the level of expectations, but if he can't he's just going to be a bench rider/spot duty.

I don't know about this either. The kid can play. He's got skills. He is at least the third best corner on the team.

thunderkyss
08-13-2011, 12:16 PM
Remember that I said Harris looks like Jackson's younger brother.
Both Harris (Miami) and Jackson (Alabama) played in the pattern matching concept in coverage.
Joseph played in the same system with the Bengals.


I've seen you mention this before.. I'm sorry, but I don't agree. I think Harris' man coverage skills are much better than Jackson's. They may have played in similar systems in college. & this may be the same system. But I would rarely ask KJac to man up with a quality receiver.

I need to see how Harris handles NFL talent, but from what I've seen I think he'll be better in man situations. He's a rookie, so I don't think we'll see him take that #2 spot until late in the season, or next year.

But I do think we'll see Jackson moving inside on the slot receiver where the goal is to be more physical.

thunderkyss
08-13-2011, 12:21 PM
I was at the Friday open practice and he has shown he's the 3rd best corner on the team. His acceleration out of the break, and aggression are really good. In this league today, the 3rd corner is a starter because he plays 60% of the snaps. That's more tha the sam. To me, kareem is a cover 2 corner. His transition out of his break is ok when the play is in front of him, but when he comes out the backpedal on a 9 route, its not good.

Are you saying Jackson is the 3rd best corner? Talent wise, I don't doubt that. I'd still like to see Harris play against NFL WRs for 60 minutes before I say he's better than KJac.

I would call Jackson a zone corner, I think cover 2 corner is similar.

But there is nothing wrong with zone corners in the right system.

I think Nnamdi is a zone corner.... Revis is a cover corner.. but I think they are neck & neck for best CB in the league. I'm not saying they are system CBs, but the DC has to be able to utilize their skills correctly otherwise they'll look like KJac in 2010.

Lucky
08-13-2011, 03:53 PM
I think Nnamdi is a zone corner....
Nnamdi is a press coverage corner. That's all he does. They never played zone in Oakland. His role won't change in Philly.

drs23
08-13-2011, 06:15 PM
Nnamdi is a press coverage corner. That's all he does. They never played zone in Oakland. His role won't change in Philly.

Lucky,

The preseason scuttlebut was the new DC and former O-line coach , Juan Castillo , is/was going to implement zone coverage for the most part. IIRC this was a selling point as Aso being a better fit for the Texans defense because Wade won't be using much zone as opposed to the Iggles using it as a "base defense".

Did a quick search and didn't find the reference I was looking for but it was included in a thread here.

Perhaps he changed his philosophy.

edo783
08-13-2011, 08:19 PM
Lucky,

The preseason scuttlebut was the new DC and former O-line coach , Juan Castillo , is/was going to implement zone coverage for the most part. IIRC this was a selling point as Aso being a better fit for the Texans defense because Wade won't be using much zone as opposed to the Iggles using it as a "base defense".

Did a quick search and didn't find the reference I was looking for but it was included in a thread here.

Perhaps he changed his philosophy.

ASO might cause that to have happened.

76Texan
08-14-2011, 12:00 AM
Nnamdi is a press coverage corner. That's all he does. They never played zone in Oakland. His role won't change in Philly.

1. Namdi played quite a bit off-man coverage in Oakland.

2. Even when a CB play man-under, in Cover 2 (which the Raiders used quite a bit), it's still a zone. The CB still receives safety help either over the top or underneath.

3. When Namdi dropped in Cover 3, that's a zone.

4. Even in Cover 1, Namdi still can expect help in the middle.

Overall, the term "press coverage corner" is definitely unsuitable to describe Aso.

76Texan
08-14-2011, 12:04 AM
I've seen you mention this before.. I'm sorry, but I don't agree. I think Harris' man coverage skills are much better than Jackson's. They may have played in similar systems in college. & this may be the same system. But I would rarely ask KJac to man up with a quality receiver.

I need to see how Harris handles NFL talent, but from what I've seen I think he'll be better in man situations. He's a rookie, so I don't think we'll see him take that #2 spot until late in the season, or next year.

But I do think we'll see Jackson moving inside on the slot receiver where the goal is to be more physical.

You probably missed the Sun Bowl against the Fighting Irish.
This one game alone showed Harris with more bad plays than KJ in a whole year with the Tides (and KJ was a Junior.)

thunderkyss
08-14-2011, 04:44 PM
Overall, the term "press coverage corner" is definitely unsuitable to describe Aso.

The man plays one side of the field. That says zone corner to me... like Dunta.

I know he can play either side. I know he plays some press coverage, & I know he can play man-to-man well.

But his best game is facing the QB & run support.

He's a zone corner.

I don't know why some people would think that is an insult, or somehow a derogatory statement. He's one of the best corners in the league, but does not play the same game as Revis.... Revis is totally different. Revis is a cover corner. Deion was a cover corner.

Wolf
08-14-2011, 04:48 PM
X's and O's: Joseph on secondary (4:46) (http://www.houstontexans.com/media-lounge/videos/Xs-and-Os-Joseph-on-secondary-/01fd92ca-8428-4d2d-8fba-b5b520ce1c09)

EllisUnit
08-14-2011, 05:04 PM
Remember that I said Harris looks like Jackson's younger brother.
Both Harris (Miami) and Jackson (Alabama) played in the pattern matching concept in coverage.
Joseph played in the same system with the Bengals.

This is what Wade employs in his coverage scheme.

The reason Harris seems like a cover corner to you is because in that coverage, he would lock on a receiver and follows him like in man coverage.

In this system, one or both of the safeties (especially the FS) can be free to make plays (on occasions).
This is why Wade's safety tandem averaged nearly 6 INTs per year (and that included all the years he didn't have good safeties on the roster); something the Texans never had.

The safety tandem from Alabama had 11 INTs last year, and the duo from the Hurricanes had 6.

:wadepalm:

ObsiWan
08-14-2011, 05:10 PM
X's and O's: Joseph on secondary (4:46) (http://www.houstontexans.com/media-lounge/videos/Xs-and-Os-Joseph-on-secondary-/01fd92ca-8428-4d2d-8fba-b5b520ce1c09)

That was helpful for me. Thanks.
Rep.

Lucky
08-14-2011, 10:52 PM
1. Namdi played quite a bit off-man coverage in Oakland.

2. Even when a CB play man-under, in Cover 2 (which the Raiders used quite a bit), it's still a zone. The CB still receives safety help either over the top or underneath.

3. When Namdi dropped in Cover 3, that's a zone.

4. Even in Cover 1, Namdi still can expect help in the middle.

Overall, the term "press coverage corner" is definitely unsuitable to describe Aso.
Seriously, you are completely wrong on this. Oakland was infamous for rolling coverage to the opposite corner (be it Routt or whoever). Nnamdi's game is to get on a WR at the LOS and take him out of his route. That's why he is coveted.

And please, don't go off on a zillion screen shots of a single play to make your "point". I've seen plenty of Raider games over the past several years and I know what Asomugha does to a team.

Rey
08-14-2011, 11:06 PM
Seriously, you are completely wrong on this. Oakland was infamous for rolling coverage to the opposite corner (be it Routt or whoever). Nnamdi's game is to get on a WR at the LOS and take him out of his route. That's why he is coveted.

And please, don't go off on a zillion screen shots of a single play to make your "point". I've seen plenty of Raider games over the past several years and I know what Asomugha does to a team.

This.

Aso is a man press corner.

drs23
08-14-2011, 11:37 PM
This.

Aso is a man press corner.

Granted. Does this mean the Iggles aren't really going to a zone base since they snagged Aso?

BullNation4Life
08-15-2011, 12:22 AM
Being a Nickel corner means you are 3 bad plays from the #2 cb from being the starter, and we know 3 bad plays are defiantly in Jackson's repertoire...

Allen or Harris will be the #2 by week 6....

76Texan
08-15-2011, 10:13 AM
Seriously, you are completely wrong on this. Oakland was infamous for rolling coverage to the opposite corner (be it Routt or whoever). Nnamdi's game is to get on a WR at the LOS and take him out of his route. That's why he is coveted.

And please, don't go off on a zillion screen shots of a single play to make your "point". I've seen plenty of Raider games over the past several years and I know what Asomugha does to a team.

First of all, your original description of Aso as a press corner (to which I responded) can be proven incorrect by a single screen shot of him playing off-man, because by definition a CB playing the press technique is on the LOS with the receiver.
You may use a term like "predominantly a press corner" then I will agree.

Secondly, in 2010, it doesn't even look to me like the Raiders treated Routt any differently then Aso. If they rolled safety help more one way, it wasn't by much, so your second term "infamously rolling coverage to the oppsosite corner" is utterly wrong. Besides, You can find Namdi in the nickel sometimes, and in the nickel, there's always safety help unless a team is in zero coverage or the receiver's route happens to take the nickel into such situation where the safety can't provide help.

Thirdly, I maintained that the Raiders did play some true zone last year.
(Forget about the other coverages that I mentioned, we don't even need to go indepth about those.)

badboy
08-15-2011, 10:27 AM
I think ASO was coveted because he can play man or zone. He can bump and run or mirror.