PDA

View Full Version : Jason Allen bad plays


76Texan
08-09-2011, 12:29 AM
It gives me no joy to post these plays, even though I may take a good nature rib here and there. :strangle:

The first one was against the Jets.
Allen fell down and gave up a 67-yd TD to Edwards.

The Jets were in white.
The TE and FB both were on Allen's side.
As both of them released (along with the RB), there was absolutely no chance that the SS can give help.
Edwards ran a simple route out to the flat anf caught the ball about 11 yards from the LOS.

As Allen whiffed quickly in this fashion, a TD was a sure thing for the offense.
His falling down was not aided by a receiver pushing/pulling on his arm (as in the R. Williams's play against Jackson) or on his helmet (as in the S. Smith's play against Jackson).

The whole sequence can be found here:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Edwatds%2067yd%20TD%20%20Allen%20fell%20down/

The start of the play is depicted in this photo:

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Edwatds%2067yd%20TD%20%20Allen%20fell%20down/vlcsnap-191771.jpg

Rey
08-09-2011, 12:37 AM
What isthe point?

That Jason Allen had some bad plays?

Trap_Star
08-09-2011, 12:42 AM
jayden james is yummy.

Allstar
08-09-2011, 12:47 AM
What isthe point?

That Jason Allen had some bad plays?

Do you really have to ask? It's to make his boy KJ look adequate.

Rey
08-09-2011, 12:47 AM
The fullback being "on his side" doesn't matter. The fb is in an off set I. Pretty much never are you asking your corner to make a pre snap read in a fb in the backfield.

You are making up your own narration for the coverage just like you were in the k jax threads.

You sat he can't expect safety help because of the formation the offense is in and that is a ridiculous assumption.

Also, Roy williams handled kjax at the line. Kjax footwork was bad and he was easily thrown off balance.

As far as Allen is concerned, everyone knows he isn't a shutdown in an island guy. Most folks know he has struggled in Miami.

I really don't get the point and I'm trying to not assume that this is to make kjax look better so I'll just let you explain.

76Texan
08-09-2011, 12:48 AM
What isthe point?

That Jason Allen had some bad plays?

There shall be several points.
For now, let just say that the first two points are:
- Allen had more bad plays than Jackson per pass targeted (especially when considering a "true" one-on-one situation.
- Allen fell down, probably more than Jackson just by pure counts and definitely more per pass plays involved (especially when considered that he wasn't pushed and pulled the way Jackson was; ie. it's all on him.)

Some other points will manifest themselves or will be brought up by me later as I post more plays.

76Texan
08-09-2011, 12:50 AM
The fullback being "on his side" doesn't matter. The fb is in an off set I.

You are making up your own narration for the coverage just like you were in the k jax threads.

You sat he can't expect safety help because of the formation the offense is in and that is a ridiculous assumption.

Also, Roy williams handled kjax at the line. Kjax footwork was bad and he was easily thrown off balance.

As far as Allen is concerned, everyone knows he isn't a shutdown in an island guy. Most folks know he has struggled in Miami.

I really don't get the point and I'm trying to not assume that this is to make kjax look better so I'll just let you explain.1. I'd like to hear your take about the coverage the Dolphins might be in?

2. People want Allen to start over Jackson because they think he can make more plays vs. giving up more plays. It isn't so!

Rey
08-09-2011, 12:55 AM
There shall be several points.
For now, let just say that the first two points are:
- Allen had more bad plays than Jackson per pass targeted (especially when considering a "true" one-on-one situation.
- Allen fell down, probably more than Jackson juts by pure counts and definitely more per pass plays involved (especially when considered that he wasn't pushed and pulled the way Jackson was; ie. it's all on him.)

Some other points will manifest themselves or will be brought up by me later as I post more plays.

So this is a Kareem Jackson doesn't suck thread in disguise?

C'mon man.

Like I said, I like talking football with you, but you make it difficult with this stuff.

Even if Allen sucks to high hell, what on earth does that have to do with Kareem being bad?

And are you seriously complaining about Kareem being pushed and shoved in a football game?

You do realize that within the first 5 yards db's and receivers get physical right?

76Texan
08-09-2011, 01:00 AM
In the fourth quarter, Allen got beat deep by Edwards in either cover 1 or cover 3, but the pass was just long.

The Jets were in a 2-TE set and the Dolphins brought the SS safety down to counter.

Somehow, Allen allowed Edwards to cut back to the outside where it's almost impossible for the lone deep safety to get to.

Yet, the safety managed to get pretty close.
This bring up the next point: that if the Texans' deep safety had this kind of range, our CBs would have fared better last year.
(And therefore, Jackson wouldn't have looked so bad.)

Here's the line-up:

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Edwards%20beat%20Allen%20deep%20pass%20just%20long/vlcsnap-231075.jpg



And here's the whole sequene:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Edwards%20beat%20Allen%20deep%20pass%20just%20long/

76Texan
08-09-2011, 01:02 AM
So this is a Kareem Jackson doesn't suck thread in disguise?

C'mon man.

Like I said, I like talking football with you, but you make it difficult with this stuff.

Even if Allen sucks to high hell, what on earth does that have to do with Kareem being bad?

And are you seriously complaining about Kareem being pushed and shoved in a football game?

You do realize that within the first 5 yards db's and receivers get physical right?

You want to see which CB deserve to be the starter, don't you?

Playoffs
08-09-2011, 01:03 AM
I'm all ears. http://hfboards.com/images/smilies/bigear.gif

Rey
08-09-2011, 01:08 AM
1. I'd like to hear your take about the coverage the Dolphins might be in?

2. People want Allen to start over Jackson because they think he can make more plays vs. giving up more plays. It isn't so!

1) You can't even see the coverage so I'd just be giving a wild guess.

2) People want the best # 2 cb to start and a lot of people have given other options besides Jason Allen.

Some folks believe Kareem is trash and will never get it, but some think it's too early to close the door on him.

But you seem to be in a very, very small minority saying Kareem being bad is basically an illusion.

Jason Allen may not be a world beater but he is probably a better option than Jackson at this point.

I wish you'd come to grips with that so we could discuss some other areas of the team because I like the technical aspect and breaking down plays.

76Texan
08-09-2011, 01:13 AM
The third play in the Jets game were on third and ten.
Dolphins were in cover two, which means Allen can afford to play closer to the vet to try to prevent the conversion... but he didn't, or couldn't.

Allen lined up outside the receiver and still allowed the catch to be make to the outside for a 19-yd gain and a first down.

And yes, he fell down again (the second time in one game.)

Here, you can see that he does have "on-time" safety support.

The line-up:
http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Allen%20fell%20down%20again%20against%20Jets%20Edw ards/vlcsnap-236189.jpg

The sequence:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Allen%20fell%20down%20again%20against%20Jets%20Edw ards/

Rey
08-09-2011, 01:14 AM
You want to see which CB deserve to be the starter, don't you?

Sure. And I think that pre season will be a good gauge.

If we are going to base this years decisions strictly on last years performances the Kareem probably should be cut.

But he isnt going to be. He'll be given every chance to be a starter, and if he performs well, like you seem supremely confident he will, then you shouldn't be worried.

The best man (hopefully) will start.

Rey
08-09-2011, 01:17 AM
I still have not seen you give a legit criticism of anything kj has done.

76Texan
08-09-2011, 01:18 AM
1. Jason Allen may not be a world beater but he is probably a better option than Jackson at this point.

2. I wish you'd come to grips with that so we could discuss some other areas of the team because I like the technical aspect and breaking down plays.\

1. See, I don't agree that Allen is a better option because in his fifth year, he's still making what his coach Soprano called "fundamental" mistakes (over and over again.) I will come to that another time when I post some more plays.

2. If people realize that Allen fell down more than Jackson then I woul quit this thread straight away.

vupac1
08-09-2011, 01:40 AM
When year exactly was this particular NYJ/MIA game? I don't think there is any question that Jason Allen was a disappointment in MIA, probably considered a bust for a first rounder, but what do we as fans always preach.. "maybe all he needs is a change of scenery" It's the same reason Jason Babins and Amobi Okoyes get picked up by other teams..

Look, everyone knows that KJ was thrown into a bad situation last year, we've heard it over and over and over.. rookie corner relied on to step in and become an impact starter with terrible safety play behind him... we all agree that was a bad decision last year, so why are you so against letting a veteran corner start ahead of him this year? Sure, JA isn't as good as our new CB1 in Jonathan Joseph, but he IS still a veteran with more game experience than KJ (and drafted 8 spots ahead of JoJo ;) ) who knows, maybe he can finally develop into the player he was projected to be.. and thus allowing KJ more time to learn and even possibly doing the same

Malloy
08-09-2011, 02:03 AM
Do you really have to ask? It's to make his boy KJ look adequate.

Until this thread I thought you guys were going overboard on the KJ-love... now... not so much :)

76Texan
08-09-2011, 02:34 AM
I wish I had enough reps so my neg would actually leave a dent in your bars.

You made several highly-detailed, analytical posts through the off-season, that had shed lights on K-Jack troubles last season, which I admire a great deal, I'm sure I even rep you a couple of times for it.

Now all of a sudden, you made a thread like this, coinciding with the fact that KJack is having a terrible camp and Jason Allen is shining like a Emerson light bulb powered by a thousand lithium-ion cell batteries. Face it dude, Jason Allen is slated to be the starter while K-Jack is mostly going to be the 4th CB, and potentially going the being Okoye'd by the Texans within the next few years.

This thread has tarnished your credibility as a poster, and further proving to everyone that you are a true Kareem Jackson nut-hugger, first and foremost.

P.S: I didn't negged, but was tempted due to the bias-phaggotry of the OP

First of all, you might want to read my first post again.
It read, "it gives me no joy!"

Secondly, this is not suddenly-a-thread that appears; I had promised Docbar (and a couple other posters) who wanted to know "about" how much the other DBs fell down.

Thirdly, even though I've completed all the Texans game analysis some time ago so that we can see all the plays that involved each CB to analyze their plays "somewhat more truthfully" (rather than just one or two plays here and there), I haven't taken all the screen shots on all of them yet.
The ones that I had were big and I need time to convert them.
In the meantime, I just can't let this "Kareem Jackson just fell down again" to stick while nobody mentioned about "Jason Allen just fell down again".

76Texan
08-09-2011, 02:36 AM
I still have not seen you give a legit criticism of anything kj has done.

I did, and I still don't know why you can't remember as I had quoted you directly to respond.

76Texan
08-09-2011, 02:47 AM
When year exactly was this particular NYJ/MIA game? I don't think there is any question that Jason Allen was a disappointment in MIA, probably considered a bust for a first rounder, but what do we as fans always preach.. "maybe all he needs is a change of scenery" It's the same reason Jason Babins and Amobi Okoyes get picked up by other teams..

Look, everyone knows that KJ was thrown into a bad situation last year, we've heard it over and over and over.. rookie corner relied on to step in and become an impact starter with terrible safety play behind him... we all agree that was a bad decision last year, so why are you so against letting a veteran corner start ahead of him this year? Sure, JA isn't as good as our new CB1 in Jonathan Joseph, but he IS still a veteran with more game experience than KJ (and drafted 8 spots ahead of JoJo ;) ) who knows, maybe he can finally develop into the player he was projected to be.. and thus allowing KJ more time to learn and even possibly doing the sameAll the plays I've been posting (and will continue to) are from this year.

The main thing is that I've watched these games some time after we signed Allen, and I saw him as a stop-gap measure that is better than Jacques Reeves.
He was here so that Brice McCain can play the dime instead of starting.

What his coach Soprano said after the Jets game tells a lot.
(The game I watched is an NFL Network Replay. They inserted comments from coaches and players here and there.)

This is what Soprano had to say about the Edward's TD pass:
"We go 13 plays down the field on the first drive after the half; it was a heck of a drive, you got momentum on your side and then we gave one (big TD) up on one play. Those kinds of things you just can't do. And it comes down to basic fundamentals. Although we're preaching those things; there's just nothing you can take for granted."

Allen would continue to make that same basic mistake again in other games that no doubt let to his release.
And he would do it again with the Texans on another TD pass.

76Texan
08-09-2011, 02:57 AM
Here's a 20-yd pass to Bernard berrian (Vikings) along the side line.
Jason Allen just fell down again (and I don't know why I can't make fun of him when everybody has been making fun of Jackson - Remember, I've seen these Allen's plays last year; I just didn't want to bring them up.)

The sequence:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Bernard%20Berrian%20Vikings%20%20Allen%20fell%20do wn/

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Bernard%20Berrian%20Vikings%20%20Allen%20fell%20do wn/vlcsnap-1846977.jpg

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Bernard%20Berrian%20Vikings%20%20Allen%20fell%20do wn/vlcsnap-1847149.jpg

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Bernard%20Berrian%20Vikings%20%20Allen%20fell%20do wn/vlcsnap-1847162.jpg

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Bernard%20Berrian%20Vikings%20%20Allen%20fell%20do wn/vlcsnap-1847167.jpg

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Bernard%20Berrian%20Vikings%20%20Allen%20fell%20do wn/vlcsnap-1847171.jpg

76Texan
08-09-2011, 03:05 AM
And here's Allen falling down on a 36-yd catch by rookie Hernandez (Pats).
It was 36 yards only because of safety help.

The sequence:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Allen%20fell%20down%20against%20Pats%20rookie%20He rnandez/

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Allen%20fell%20down%20against%20Pats%20rookie%20He rnandez/vlcsnap-888772.jpg

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Allen%20fell%20down%20against%20Pats%20rookie%20He rnandez/vlcsnap-888776.jpg

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Allen%20fell%20down%20against%20Pats%20rookie%20He rnandez/vlcsnap-888781.jpg

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Allen%20fell%20down%20against%20Pats%20rookie%20He rnandez/vlcsnap-888786.jpg

Ghostform
08-09-2011, 03:09 AM
http://i54.tinypic.com/2qmp1kg.png

BigBull17
08-09-2011, 04:14 AM
And I could post a hundred pictures of KJ falling down randomly with no move and just flat getting run by. KJ has not looked like a first round pick once. Allen was beat by Edwards and Hernandez while KJ made Ajiritutu look like Jerry Rice. Not the same. I watched KJ and Allen in the games they both played last year and try were two different players. Sorry, KJ looked awful. I know he was a rookie, but just looked like a non-athlete.

Allstar
08-09-2011, 04:24 AM
I can't wait for actual games to start so we can see who is outplaying who.

playa465
08-09-2011, 07:21 AM
I get 76Texan's point, KJ has been disappointing but no other CB is getting the same ratio of negativity on here. Maybe the reason is:
A)the situation of his draft status (most people were not even mentioning him)
B)the spot light of replacing a mediocre vet (Dunta) who was here for awhile and a onetime fan favorite
C)the perceived ineptitude of Kubiak and 1st rd picks
D)he really played bad
E)all of the above
Whatever the reason people gonna say what they wanna say...he is going to get every opportunity to succeed even if it takes 2 or 3 yrs, but if that means sittin his butt on the bench and observing then so be it...this thread would be better if you remove the mentioning of KJ altogether b/c it makes it seem as though you are trying to justify his shortcomings by comparing similar mistakes to other players even if done inadvertently...hopefully the infusion of better players and coaching will make the ENTIRE secondary better.

TEXANRED
08-09-2011, 08:37 AM
What isthe point?

That Jason Allen had some bad plays?

No that Jason Allen sucks. Which I agree with.

GuerillaBlack
08-09-2011, 09:01 AM
And I could post a hundred pictures of KJ falling down randomly with no move and just flat getting run by. KJ has not looked like a first round pick once. Allen was beat by Edwards and Hernandez while KJ made Ajiritutu look like Jerry Rice. Not the same. I watched KJ and Allen in the games they both played last year and try were two different players. Sorry, KJ looked awful. I know he was a rookie, but just looked like a non-athlete.

Didn't Allen have six picks last year, and four of them with us? Our backfield and KJ immediately improved once Allen came in. Allen is better than KJ no doubt. KJ will get the start in the preseason games, but Allen will get the starting job once the season starts alongside Joseph.

Perki-Perk
08-09-2011, 09:28 AM
The coolest part about this thread, is that if you go to the link, you can print out all the pictures on 8.5x11 card stock. Then you can flip threw them like a picture show. Awesome!

ArlingtonTexan
08-09-2011, 10:06 AM
Keep this thread to merits of Jason Allen play or not.

The Kareem Jackson angle has posted multiple time and discussed repeatedly. The regular posters have gotten the point.

Ole Miss Texan
08-09-2011, 10:57 AM
76Texan is the only poster on here that puts up pictures and breaks down the play.... not just give his opinion of what he thinks he saw 10 months ago.

I love seeing some analysis on other players and not the typical "KJ fell down". There were a lot of problems in our secondary last year, not just one player. I'm surprised by the amount of people that don't want to hold Allen, Quin, et al to a higher standard. They're not pro bowlers and all have their faults, they all made mistakes last year.

I'm surprised by the amount of people puffing out their chest in Allen's defense over this. I for one thought he played pretty well last year and was one of our better DBs. But I'm completely open to looking at the mistakes he made just as I am with every other player on this team.

Keep up the grood work 76

dsorc
08-09-2011, 11:12 AM
I think people have short memories. Jason Allen is the same story we have had for 4 years now in the secondary. Look at what happened with Will Demps, Eugene Wilson, and Bernard Pollard. All of them were in-season pickups that did a good job that first year and everybody anointed them as the solution for our DB problems. And yet, the next year they all flopped hard. Given the history, I think people are jumping on the Allen train too fast. There is a reason why he was cut from Miami even after getting 3 interceptions for them last year. Let's wait until preseason and see who actually earns the CB2 spot.

Kaiser Toro
08-09-2011, 11:14 AM
I can't wait for the Jonathan Joseph bad plays thread.

XI CMURDER IX
08-09-2011, 11:18 AM
So, you are dogging Jason Allen... On a few plays... When he still played for Miami....

The Pencil Neck
08-09-2011, 11:33 AM
So, you are dogging Jason Allen... On a few plays... When he still played for Miami....

No. He's trying to get people to shut up with the "KJ just fell down" jokes.

A losing battle.

steelbtexan
08-09-2011, 12:02 PM
76 Tex, If your point is that Jackson and Allen both stunk last yr, then point taken. This is why I'm hoping Harris lights it up this TC and wins the CB2 position. It could happen.

You know who sucks worse than KJ and Allen at their jobs? Rick and Gary. If this wasn't true then KJ/JA wouldn't be on the team. (Incompetence)

drs23
08-09-2011, 04:22 PM
It gives me no joy to post this, but your cream provider, K-Jack, is falling* down to 4th CB on the depth chart. While Allen is locomotive-ing his way to #2. (http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2011/08/tuesday-am-practice-notes-for-the-texans-and-antonio-smiths-new-playmates/)



And if you ain't down with that, everyone not named 76Texans has two words for you...

http://img.buzznet.com/assets/imgx/9/0/3/6/2/6/1/orig-9036261.jpg

I couldn't listen to the podcast. Who did Smith not mention/talk about?

Ole Miss Texan
08-09-2011, 04:32 PM
I couldn't listen to the podcast. Who did Smith not mention/talk about?
LOL I don't know. He mentioned himself, Damien Lewis, Earl Mitchell, Shaun Cody, JJ Watt and even brought up Mario (as a hybrid). So of "notable" names he left off Bulman and Jamison. Not sure where LZ was going with that...

drs23
08-09-2011, 04:37 PM
LOL I don't know. He mentioned himself, Damien Lewis, Earl Mitchell, Shaun Cody, JJ Watt and even brought up Mario (as a hybrid). So of "notable" names he left off Bulman and Jamison. Not sure where LZ was going with that...

Thanks Ole Miss.

Ole Miss Texan
08-09-2011, 04:43 PM
Yep. I was sure Z was alluding to Mario, before I played the podcast. not really sure who he was indicating, Okoye?

He did made a comment, below the podcast, about Mitchell showing more aggression than Okoye in last season TC.
Yea I was kind of thinking he could be referring to Okoye but the guy isn't even on the team anymore, he's on the Bears. THere's no reason for Antonio to mention anyone else but who's on the DL as that unit's "junkyard dog" types. Okoye definitely didn't fit the bill anyways

SteveSlaton20
08-09-2011, 05:48 PM
uh...this was when he was with the Dolphins?...who cares?

EllisUnit
08-09-2011, 08:07 PM
Well Allen dont play for Miami anymore, he plays for the texans, and i didnt see many bad plays when he played for us, 2 i can think of for sure. Who care what he did in miami, how bout what that no name WR did to K. Jac last season, atleaset Allen played against some talent.

gary
08-09-2011, 09:21 PM
Toan, you must feel quite high and mighty with your pure insults and your neg rep threats. Rock on dude you have a lot to be proud of. NOT.

DocBar
08-09-2011, 09:29 PM
Just saw a John McLame tweet: KJ just tripped over a Jason Allen bad plays thread. Sorry76. Couldn't resist. Seriously though, do you have a time frame for the games?

EllisUnit
08-09-2011, 10:05 PM
Just saw a John McLame tweet: KJ just tripped over a Jason Allen bad plays thread. Sorry76. Couldn't resist. Seriously though, do you have a time frame for the games?

:lol: would rep u if i could

EllisUnit
08-09-2011, 10:09 PM
wish he'd break down the Game where J. Allen covered Randy Moss, he gave up a few bad plays but actually played Moss Damn well, and this was back in The season Moss set the record for most receiving TDs

Allstar
08-10-2011, 12:28 AM
The thing is, if 76 is right about KJ, we'll all be happy that our first round pick didn't bust. If he's wrong we all just laugh anyways at his misled homerism.Win-win! :ahhaha:

EllisUnit
08-10-2011, 12:31 AM
The thing is, if 76 is right about KJ, we'll all be happy that our first round pick didn't bust. If he's wrong we all just laugh anyways at his misled homerism.Win-win! :ahhaha:

:fingergun:

TexansSeminole
08-10-2011, 02:12 AM
Dude, Jason Allen totally locked down Randy Moss. Get educated. Jason Allen is pro bowl material. Please learn football. What he did prior to last year doesnt mean jack shit. His below average season in 2010 proves his pro bowl status. Face it.

:sarcasm:

Your wasting your time. People don't want to talk analysis on here anymore, they simply want to go into a mob mentality where they lose all critical thinking ability if try ever had it at all. Alot of the posters are that way, especially the ones that joined in the last 2 years.

Funniest part is that most of you guys didn't even know who the hell Jason Allen was before he became a Texan. Same goes for Bernard Pollard. Doesn't keep y'all from getting hyped about absolutely nothing.

Same shit, different player.

powda
08-10-2011, 09:42 AM
couple of points...

I appreciate the effort 76 puts into his threads. Even if you dont agree with what he thinks you should respect the fact that hes basing his opinion off game film he puts on display for everyone else.

I think its juvenile for some posters to ambush his thread before he even has a chance to make his point. Your pissed off about something from another thread and you brought it to this one.

If just one person in the secondary blows an assignment its suddenly difficult to know for sure what coverage was called. All that can be done is speculation.

Over the course of a single game the defense can get anywhere form 40-80 plays x 16 games x 2 seasons ago x 2 defensive coordinators/ defensive backs coachs ago. I'm not sure I see the merit in criticizing or evaluating a player based on 1 (or a couple) of plays on that scale. All players will occasionally blow an assignment...I'm more concerned about what Allen did last season (even if it was under pee wee league coaching)...

TimeKiller
08-10-2011, 10:38 AM
Good write up of Allen coming out of college, found at: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/405466

Positives: Well-built athlete with long limbs, lean muscle tone and explosive moves … Has loose hips to turn and run coming out of his backpedal … Stays in control in man coverage and has no trouble with his speed in attempts to mirror tight ends … Can press, turn and trail effectively vs. wide receivers on deep routes … Side shuffles quite a bit in his backpedal, but has above average foot quickness and control out of his breaks … His plant-and-drive agility allows him to generate explosive acceleration when closing … Has the range to cover ground from sideline-to-sideline, demonstrating the second gear needed to recover and make up ground going deep … Uses his size well to combat receivers for the ball and has the natural hands and ball skills to adjust and maintain position tracking the ball in flight … Thanks to his experience on offense during his prep days, he easily catches the ball outside his frame … Punishing tackler who charges hard to close in run support and is not timid taking on blockers in the box … Stays low in his pads and hits with good pop on contact … Has the strength to stack and control, showing the ability to split double teams when trying to apply pocket pressure.

Negatives: Has a history of shoulder problems and while he has made steady progress recovering from his dislocated left hip, he has yet to put on the pads to see if the injury can stand up to constant pounding … Slow to recognize plays, but shows good urgency to close once he locates the ball … Needs to refine his backpedal technique (eliminate the side shuffle), but does have the speed to recover … Best in man coverage, as he is sometimes influenced by play-action and makes decisions late, getting caught out of position before he can react … Has very good timed speed, but struggles a bit to maintain position when trying to cover on the perimeter … Makes too many recognition errors working in the zone … Must settle on one position so he can work on technique refinement in that area.

Rey
08-10-2011, 12:10 PM
In the clip against the patriots Hernandez, you my left out the way he fell.

Looks like he attempted a tackle and the te shook him off. All you show is him running and then he's on the ground.


Big difference between that and losing your footing due to bad footwork.

But I think that giving up big plays is bad either way. If it comes down two guys both making mistakes I want the guy who makes plays.

leebigeztx
08-10-2011, 02:05 PM
Good write up of Allen coming out of college, found at: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/405466

Positives: Well-built athlete with long limbs, lean muscle tone and explosive moves … Has loose hips to turn and run coming out of his backpedal … Stays in control in man coverage and has no trouble with his speed in attempts to mirror tight ends … Can press, turn and trail effectively vs. wide receivers on deep routes … Side shuffles quite a bit in his backpedal, but has above average foot quickness and control out of his breaks … His plant-and-drive agility allows him to generate explosive acceleration when closing … Has the range to cover ground from sideline-to-sideline, demonstrating the second gear needed to recover and make up ground going deep … Uses his size well to combat receivers for the ball and has the natural hands and ball skills to adjust and maintain position tracking the ball in flight … Thanks to his experience on offense during his prep days, he easily catches the ball outside his frame … Punishing tackler who charges hard to close in run support and is not timid taking on blockers in the box … Stays low in his pads and hits with good pop on contact … Has the strength to stack and control, showing the ability to split double teams when trying to apply pocket pressure.

Negatives: Has a history of shoulder problems and while he has made steady progress recovering from his dislocated left hip, he has yet to put on the pads to see if the injury can stand up to constant pounding … Slow to recognize plays, but shows good urgency to close once he locates the ball … Needs to refine his backpedal technique (eliminate the side shuffle), but does have the speed to recover … Best in man coverage, as he is sometimes influenced by play-action and makes decisions late, getting caught out of position before he can react … Has very good timed speed, but struggles a bit to maintain position when trying to cover on the perimeter … Makes too many recognition errors working in the zone … Must settle on one position so he can work on technique refinement in that area.

Allen was considered a safety with corner skil to defend the flex te's in the league. Heap,gates,winslow,whitten,clark, and guys like that. In fact, he,huff,and whitner were all drafted high for this reason. Once they stopped shifting him back and forth, he beat out smith. Smith actually had a better rookie year than davis, but for some reason smith regressed and davis progressed the next season. Honestly, I think jackson is a zone corner. He's better in his backpedal and action in front of him, but when he has to turn and run, its over.

HTown2ATX
08-10-2011, 02:07 PM
personally, I prefer youjizz.

:backsout:

DocBar
08-10-2011, 07:03 PM
It gives me no joy to post this, but your cream provider, K-Jack, is falling* down to 4th CB on the depth chart. While Allen is locomotive-ing his way to #2. (http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2011/08/tuesday-am-practice-notes-for-the-texans-and-antonio-smiths-new-playmates/)



And if you ain't down with that, everyone not named 76Texans has two words for you...

http://img.buzznet.com/assets/imgx/9/0/3/6/2/6/1/orig-9036261.jpgYou can't be doin judy chops down there. That ain't safe. There ain't much call for no nutted players in the NFL.
Learn the judy chop here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j1-xQA_ufE)

ToroTimes
08-10-2011, 07:27 PM
Per NFL scout Jayson Braddock for what its worth both Jason Allen and Sherrick McManis are really pushing Kareem Jackson. (which shouldnt be hard at this point)

Doubt they give up on a first rounder so early in his career but the Texans want to win this year so there's no telling what the depth chart at corner could look like come September.

thunderkyss
08-10-2011, 10:18 PM
The thing is, if 76 is right about KJ, we'll all be happy that our first round pick didn't bust. If he's wrong we all just laugh anyways at his misled homerism.Win-win! :ahhaha:

Right about what?

What is it that 76 is trying to say?

76Texan
08-11-2011, 12:55 AM
Just saw a John McLame tweet: KJ just tripped over a Jason Allen bad plays thread. Sorry76. Couldn't resist. Seriously though, do you have a time frame for the games?

Don't worry, before this thread is done with, Jason Allen will take over the falling down crown from Kareem!

As far as time frame, are you talking about all the Texans games from last year?
I have no time frame on those, but I should start some time this weekend.

All the plays by Allen in this thread so far are from last year (2010) when he played CB for the Dolphins.

His lowlights in the time with the Texans will come later.

Allstar
08-11-2011, 01:02 AM
Right about what?

What is it that 76 is trying to say?

Kareem Jackson is a quality starting corner.

76Texan
08-11-2011, 01:17 AM
Kareem Jackson is a quality starting corner.

I did not say anything like that.
Especially in this thread.

But once I'm done with showing all the games breakdowns (if I have enough time), I wish to reaffirm what I had been saying after the season: that Jackson is a solid overall CB (run support, help defense on a receiver that is not his main responsibility, and he played adequate as a cover corner - especially considering he was a rookie.)

If he continues to progress, as a rookie should, he can be a part of the solution.

76Texan
08-11-2011, 01:23 AM
Well Allen dont play for Miami anymore, he plays for the texans, and i didnt see many bad plays when he played for us, 2 i can think of for sure. Who care what he did in miami, how bout what that no name WR did to K. Jac last season, atleaset Allen played against some talent.

wish he'd break down the Game where J. Allen covered Randy Moss, he gave up a few bad plays but actually played Moss Damn well, and this was back in The season Moss set the record for most receiving TDs

You're contradicting yourself right here.

At any rate, do you have something to show us how Allen cover Moss damn well?

I know about the INT; he played safety and picked off an "arrogant" throw by Brady.
I haven't got time to watch the whole game yet, but I will.

Aso, in the fist game againt the Pats in 2007, Allen also played safety.
I just finished watching that game. And I will show you Allen falling down again!

76Texan
08-11-2011, 01:24 AM
Toan, you must feel quite high and mighty with your pure insults and your neg rep threats. Rock on dude you have a lot to be proud of. NOT.Thanks, buddy!

Also, thank you to those who helps with the points!

76Texan
08-11-2011, 01:37 AM
Didn't Allen have six picks last year, and four of them with us? Our backfield and KJ immediately improved once Allen came in. Allen is better than KJ no doubt. KJ will get the start in the preseason games, but Allen will get the starting job once the season starts alongside Joseph.

It was 3 and 3.
For the moment, let just give Allen all the credit for the INTs.

But just as with Jacques Reeves, some of the INTs (3 or 4, I can't remember off-hand) wouldn't have happened if the QB didn't make a mistake.

You give the CB credit for the INT in those instances, but you cannot use it (heavily) to evaluate a player. By that, I mean to say that you can't judge a player on his luck. You do consider his ball skill, but you also want to remember that any decent CB should make those INTs.

76Texan
08-11-2011, 01:40 AM
I get 76Texan's point, KJ has been disappointing but no other CB is getting the same ratio of negativity on here. Maybe the reason is:
A)the situation of his draft status (most people were not even mentioning him)
B)the spot light of replacing a mediocre vet (Dunta) who was here for awhile and a onetime fan favorite
C)the perceived ineptitude of Kubiak and 1st rd picks
D)he really played bad
E)all of the above
Whatever the reason people gonna say what they wanna say...he is going to get every opportunity to succeed even if it takes 2 or 3 yrs, but if that means sittin his butt on the bench and observing then so be it...this thread would be better if you remove the mentioning of KJ altogether b/c it makes it seem as though you are trying to justify his shortcomings by comparing similar mistakes to other players even if done inadvertently...hopefully the infusion of better players and coaching will make the ENTIRE secondary better.

Thanks for the response!

However, the thing about comparing sometimes just can't be helped.
I hope you understand.

76Texan
08-11-2011, 01:44 AM
I can't wait for the Jonathan Joseph bad plays thread.

Not a whole thread, but yes, I did mention 3 plays in which he "fell down" (with pics) and if I remember correctly, he gave up 3 TDs in "true" one-on-one situation (which is one more than Jackson.)

76Texan
08-11-2011, 01:50 AM
In the clip against the patriots Hernandez, you my left out the way he fell.

Looks like he attempted a tackle and the te shook him off. All you show is him running and then he's on the ground.


Big difference between that and losing your footing due to bad footwork.

But I think that giving up big plays is bad either way. If it comes down two guys both making mistakes I want the guy who makes plays.

You didn't follow the link that I gave.
Here it is again:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Allen%20fell%20down%20against%20Pats%20rookie%20He rnandez/

Allen was in man coverage and followed Hernandez.

EllisUnit
08-11-2011, 08:32 PM
Well i say just put K. Jackson in for the whole season let him be the #1, we can evaluate him in the off season after we go 1-15. Then ship the boy straight off to canton ;) cause he has to be the best CB to ever come out of college. No doubt

Rey
08-11-2011, 09:38 PM
You didn't follow the link that I gave.
Here it is again:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Allen%20fell%20down%20against%20Pats%20rookie%20He rnandez/

Allen was in man coverage and followed Hernandez.

No I did follow the link and it doesn't show how he ended up an the ground.

He up and running a few feet from the te one frame, then in the next he's on the ground on the other side of the te.

Defensive players end up on the ground when they are going for tackles. That's not the same as slipping in coverage.

The very first one you showed is borderline, but I can see that as being a coverage slip.

Either way, like I said in the list you quoted, they are all bad plays by Allen but that really has little bearing on the competition that is going on right now at cb2.

ArTex
08-11-2011, 11:41 PM
(Sorry if already posted before)

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2011/worst-cornerback-charting-stats-2010]

Bottom 10 Cornerbacks in Yards per Pass, 2010
#1 Worst: Kareem Jackson 11.1 YPP
#10 Worst: Jason Allen 9.3 YPP

Note about Jason Allen
Jason Allen actually had his best season in 2010, especially after Miami released him and Houston picked him up. His high yards per pass figure comes from just a handful of plays, mostly by Braylon Edwards. For some reason, Allen was dominated by Edwards, who had receptions of 67, 42, and 27 yards against Allen in two games (one with Miami, one with Houston).

It indicates Jason Allen had a couple of really bad games against one guy to skew his totals. Notice most of those snapshots are against the Jets.

Otherwise - (he's not a world beater since he's even in the ranking) - Allen was clearly better than the guy he's competing against in camp.

Do like the work to highlight the bad plays. Though, in my opinion, they don't necessarily do quite enough to move the CB from Alabama over Allen. It does show Texans have plenty mediocrity in the defensive backfield

76Texan
08-12-2011, 12:08 AM
No I did follow the link and it doesn't show how he ended up an the ground.

He up and running a few feet from the te one frame, then in the next he's on the ground on the other side of the te.

Defensive players end up on the ground when they are going for tackles. That's not the same as slipping in coverage.


True that, but I never said anything about being the same.

This play only shows further hat Allrn's fundamentals are lacking.
He ran with the receiver after the catch and no have the side line as extra help.
To fell down on his butt and let the receiver cut back inside and around him is simply bad.

Inside the red zone, and that could have been a TD.

His poor tackling skills can hurt more than you know!


Either way, like I said in the list you quoted, they are all bad plays by Allen but that really has little bearing on the competition that is going on right now at cb2.

Try tell that to a lot of folks around here who's been saying since the season ended that Jackson's "poor" play last year deserves a benching.
So as Allen played badl last year, why shouldn't he see the bench?

Rey
08-12-2011, 12:16 AM
Try tell that to a lot of folks around here who's been saying since the season ended that Jackson's "poor" play last year deserves a benching.
So as Allen played badl last year, why shouldn't he see the bench?

Well I'm not one of those folks. I think it should be open competition there.

May the least suckiest win.

Oh, and I also believe it should be kareem's spot to lose. Younger, more upside.

But if he isn't performing or if someone else is playing better I wouldn't hesitate to relieve him.

76Texan
08-12-2011, 12:21 AM
Next up is Allen tripping on himself and fell flat on his face against Lee Evans of the Bills.

Luckily for him, there were two D-linemen jumping up in the air trying to deflect the pass. The QB let the ball just out of reach of the receiver.

That could have easily been a TD if the QB had all the freedom in the world as most QBs did when Jackson was the target (it just happened that way, I don't know why, OK?)

The sequence:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Pass%20just%20long%20to%20Evans%20Allen%20tripped% 20and%20fell/

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Pass%20just%20long%20to%20Evans%20Allen%20tripped% 20and%20fell/vlcsnap-2314829.jpg

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Pass%20just%20long%20to%20Evans%20Allen%20tripped% 20and%20fell/vlcsnap-2315054.jpg

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Pass%20just%20long%20to%20Evans%20Allen%20tripped% 20and%20fell/vlcsnap-2315060.jpg

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Pass%20just%20long%20to%20Evans%20Allen%20tripped% 20and%20fell/vlcsnap-2315063.jpg

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Pass%20just%20long%20to%20Evans%20Allen%20tripped% 20and%20fell/vlcsnap-2315068.jpg

76Texan
08-12-2011, 12:22 AM
Well I'm not one of those folks. I think it should be open competition there.

May the least suckiest win.

Oh, and I also believe it should be kareem's spot to lose. Younger, more upside.

But if he isn't performing or if someone else is playing better I wouldn't hesitate to relieve him.

That I can agree with 110%

76Texan
08-12-2011, 12:35 AM
As somebody just mentioned the Jets, there were a couple more bad plays in the first game.

The first one illustrates Allen's poor run support ability.
For a big CB, he didn't do a good job getting off the block of the receiver.

The sequence:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Allen%20lost%20the%20edge%20vs%20Jets/

This gave the Jets first and goal to go at the 6.
The Dolphins D allowed 3 yards on 2 running plays before Allen committed PI as he pulled a Jacques Reeves.
Not knowing where the ball was, he ran right into the receiver.
It gave the Jets a new set of down and they scored on the ground.

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Allen%20Pi%20vs%20Jets/

Basically, one can say that Allen lost that game for the Dolphins (if one is a "hater".) At the least, Allen was a MAJOR reason for the lost.

thunderkyss
08-12-2011, 01:25 AM
(Sorry if already posted before)

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2011/worst-cornerback-charting-stats-2010]

Bottom 10 Cornerbacks in Yards per Pass, 2010
#1 Worst: Kareem Jackson 11.1 YPP
#10 Worst: Jason Allen 9.3 YPP

Note about Jason Allen


It indicates Jason Allen had a couple of really bad games against one guy to skew his totals. Notice most of those snapshots are against the Jets.

Otherwise - (he's not a world beater since he's even in the ranking) - Allen was clearly better than the guy he's competing against in camp.

Do like the work to highlight the bad plays. Though, in my opinion, they don't necessarily do quite enough to move the CB from Alabama over Allen. It does show Texans have plenty mediocrity in the defensive backfield

So what you are saying, is that since a 5 year vet was slightly better than a rookie we should roll with him?

I guarantee you that Jason Allen is a better CB now than he was in 2006 when he started as a rookie. Between then & now, surely he's learned a few tricks.

It only stands to reason that Jackson will be better than he was his rookie year.

How much better, I don't know. Enough to make him better than Allen by week 1.. maybe, maybe not.

But there are only 8 people between Allen & Jackson on that list. Jackson was a rookie...... Allen had 5 years to figure it out. He hasn't.. other wise he would be no where near #10.

I'd much rather start Brandon Harris if I'm not going to start Jackson. Why? Because after 5 years in the league Allen is only slightly better than Jackson who was pretty bad.

Rey
08-12-2011, 01:43 AM
Start the guy who's playing better at 2, but I think 2-5 should be rotated.

76Texan
08-12-2011, 10:06 AM
(Sorry if already posted before)

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2011/worst-cornerback-charting-stats-2010]

Bottom 10 Cornerbacks in Yards per Pass, 2010
#1 Worst: Kareem Jackson 11.1 YPP
#10 Worst: Jason Allen 9.3 YPP

Note about Jason Allen


It indicates Jason Allen had a couple of really bad games against one guy to skew his totals. Notice most of those snapshots are against the Jets.

Otherwise - (he's not a world beater since he's even in the ranking) - Allen was clearly better than the guy he's competing against in camp.

Do like the work to highlight the bad plays. Though, in my opinion, they don't necessarily do quite enough to move the CB from Alabama over Allen. It does show Texans have plenty mediocrity in the defensive backfield

I've said many times that we cannot look at stat to evaluate a player's performance.
You cannot isolate different situations the players were in and therefore cannot compare aple to aple.

For example, a secondary that has plenty of pass rush up front and help from the LB in the middle will have an easier time than a secondary that has none.

They both could end up with the same number of yards allowed and the same number of TDs allowed, but you cannot say that they both performed equally.

76Texan
08-12-2011, 10:14 AM
This next play continues to show Allen's subpar tackling skills.

The only reason it didn't end up in a TD was due to the fact that the safety was able to avoid the block of the receiver.

Or if the safety had been Wilson who was still standing looking in the backfield after the ball has already been thrown, Allen would have looked much worse (if that is even possible.)

This is a RB screen by the Packers.

And as uasual, Jason Allen just fell down again; sorry Docbar, I couldn't help it :)

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Allen%20missed%20a%20tackle%20vs%20Packers/vlcsnap-1305069.jpg

The sequence:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Allen%20missed%20a%20tackle%20vs%20Packers/

76Texan
08-12-2011, 10:25 AM
The next two plays show Allen as a question mark defending the short area.
(There are other plays in other games as well, these are just samples.)

In the first one, the receiver (Nelson-Packers) had both hands on the ball but dropped it.
A catch would have given the Packers goal to go and about 3 yards to score.
And it also could have been a TD with a better throw such that the receiver can catch it in stride.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Nelson%20Packers%20dropped%20a%20ball/vlcsnap-2150275.jpg


The sequence:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Nelson%20Packers%20dropped%20a%20ball/

76Texan
08-12-2011, 10:34 AM
The second play is a TD by Ocho Cinco on a simple slant.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Ochos%20TD%20on%20a%20slant/vlcsnap-3252995.jpg

The SS went with the TE on a flat route to the outside.
The slot receiver took the nickel back with him toward the middle, occupying the LB in the process.
The FS looked to help the RCB and also checked on the RB and couldn't give help either.


The sequence:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Ochos%20TD%20on%20a%20slant/

Surreal McCoy
08-12-2011, 10:37 AM
Why are all of these pics when Allen was with the Dolphins? Surely if he was as bad as being advertised in this thread there would be loads of images of him getting burned in Blue and White?

76Texan
08-12-2011, 10:47 AM
Why are all of these pics when Allen was with the Dolphins? Surely if he was as bad as being advertised in this thread there would be loads of images of him getting burned in Blue and White?

I've already said that those will come later, when I get to the Texans games.

All of these plays are from the 2010 year.

You can evaluate him for the whole year in order to compare his plays with Jackson (actually, Allen didn't play all 16 games, I'd say he played less than 13 games and he had more bad plays than Jackson... is what I'm saying!)

76Texan
08-12-2011, 12:54 PM
Next is a 53-yard TD pass to Wallace (Steelers).
For all we know, this could have been any distance.

This is a single back set.
As the slot receiver started out in a post route, the FS had no choice but to play him.
In any multi-receiver route, the CBs should know that he's most likely going to be on an island and should prepare as such.
The Dolphins were in cover 3 with a 4-underneath zone.

Allen is a guy who is well adapted with the shuffle technique, and yet he got outran (per the announcer as well).
IMO, the receiver can break down the CB's cushion pretty quickly, espcially when the CB doesn't know what route the receiver will be running.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Wallace%2053yd%20TD/111/vlcsnap-7325377.jpg


http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Wallace%2053yd%20TD/111/

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Wallace%2053yd%20TD/222/

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Wallace%2053yd%20TD/333/

76Texan
08-12-2011, 01:12 PM
The Packers game was in week 6 (game 5 for the Dolphins), Allen didn't have a bad game (he had an INT on a bad pass by Rodgers) especially if you don't think he had any responsibility on the 2-man route that I posted in the Kareem's Jackson Plight thread.

Yet, Sean Smith found the way onto the field late in the fourth quarter and in OT.

The Steeles game was in week 7 (game 6 for the Dolphins.)
A few days before the game, Sean Smith had said in an interview that "he was told he could start the game."
However, Allen started the game instead.
Afer the TD by Wallace (late in the first half), Sean Smith took over and played the second half.
(In previous games, he would come in as a nickel back.)

In the following week (week 8 and game 7 for the Dolphins), Allen gave up that TD to Ocho and almost got burned on a deep pass - to the same WR - early in the game.

That would be the last time he played as a CB for Miami.
(He did play ST in his last game with them against the Ravens.)

The long pass attempt to Ocho Cinco is to follow and will be the last play in this thread.

76Texan
08-12-2011, 01:23 PM
On this pass play to Ocho, Allen was again in the shuffle.
We can't see what happened as Ocho cut back to the outside and gained ground.
What we can tell is that in this techqniue, as the CB tries to read the QB's eyes, the receiver can make a cut to the outside just as the CB cross his feet.
(We can see this in many plays against all of the Texans CBs.)

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Ochos%20bpbble/vlcsnap-3256655.jpg


Ocho slowed down as the ball was thrown behind over his inside shoulder and then bobbled the ball.
That allowed Allen to recover and prevent the receier to pull in a clean catch before he was out of bound.
That had TD written all over it.
Allen benefited from a poor throw here.

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Jason%20Allen/Ochos%20bpbble/

leebigeztx
08-13-2011, 01:50 PM
76Texan, I really enjoy your effort to prove a point with the still shots. Of your point is allen didn't play well in miami, that could be true, but I think the totality of the pics are lost. Take the td by chad.

By alignment and personel, its a cover 3or shallow 2. Allen opened up to the inside route, but the safety bit the teaser route and left the alley open. Had the safety maintained his responsibilities and kept proper depth, different story on that play. Now if your point is safety play didn't help jackson, everyone can agree on that. We can also say lb coverage was poor and that didn't help. What can't be denied by the naked eye is right now without otas or minicamp that the rookie harris looks light yrs better than him. In fact, I will be surprised if he's anything gigher than the 4th cb. In reality, manning or quinn can cover the 4th wr better than jackson.

EllisUnit
08-13-2011, 11:25 PM
Wade Philips On a sad off season day, heading to the main WorkSource office, on the out skirts of houston. :wadepalm: "How did this happen, i read on TexansTalk.com that Jackson was the next Deion Sanders, what happened, what went wrong, why oh why did i listen to the fans ?"

Pantherstang84
08-13-2011, 11:31 PM
Boy we really need some 2011 Texans games to talk about around here. Monday night cannot get here soon enough.

76Texan
08-14-2011, 01:19 AM
76Texan, I really enjoy your effort to prove a point with the still shots. Of your point is allen didn't play well in miami, that could be true, but I think the totality of the pics are lost. Take the td by chad.

By alignment and personel, its a cover 3or shallow 2. Allen opened up to the inside route, but the safety bit the teaser route and left the alley open. Had the safety maintained his responsibilities and kept proper depth, different story on that play. Now if your point is safety play didn't help jackson, everyone can agree on that. We can also say lb coverage was poor and that didn't help. What can't be denied by the naked eye is right now without otas or minicamp that the rookie harris looks light yrs better than him. In fact, I will be surprised if he's anything gigher than the 4th cb. In reality, manning or quinn can cover the 4th wr better than jackson.

1. I'd love to talk more football plays, but I think it's about time to move on from this thread (even though I'm still thinking about a form of closure, could be long, could be short and sweet), so let's forget about his play for now at least.

2. The naked eyes miss a lot of things. Even guys like Jon Gruden and Bob Griese missed them sometimes. There's just not enough time for the brain to process something the eyes failed to see; in turn, the brain just tell the eyes "I trust you".

3. LZ, for example, is just one person (a nice person he is, and quite knowledgeable about football he is.) Still, his opinion is his. I definitely do not agree with such a statement as "Allen's ball skill alone should earn him the 2nd CB spot."

Allen got 3 INTs in less than 23 quarters of plays for the Dolphins; he also got 3 INTs for the Texans, but in 28 quarters.
His ball skills should earn him even higher praise in Miami?!?

Well, Tony Sparano and company certainly was not impressed with his ball skills; they didn't think it was enough to overcome his shortcomings ang gave him the pink slip.

I hope you see the point!

76Texan
08-19-2011, 01:43 AM
I can't help but to bring this thread back with a chuckle.

Jason Allen just fell down again:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/PS%201%20Jets/Bonus%20%20Allen%20fell%20down/

The poor boy tripped over himself and fell in ST play.
So be a good sport if you ever made fun of Jackson falling down, I'd like for you to call in to the Shiner Whiner line to report it. 713-881-5480


http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/PS%201%20Jets/Bonus%20%20Allen%20fell%20down/vlcsnap-2166322.jpg

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/PS%201%20Jets/Bonus%20%20Allen%20fell%20down/vlcsnap-2166331.jpg

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/PS%201%20Jets/Bonus%20%20Allen%20fell%20down/vlcsnap-2166338.jpg

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/PS%201%20Jets/Bonus%20%20Allen%20fell%20down/vlcsnap-2166345.jpg

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/PS%201%20Jets/Bonus%20%20Allen%20fell%20down/vlcsnap-2166351.jpg

Rey
08-19-2011, 07:45 AM
I think it doesn't matter.

Jackson was a first round pick by us and Allen was is a guy with one year left that we got off the scrap heap.

I've never made fun of Jackson falling down and I never even noticed it or thought it was an issue. BUT there is a big difference in falling down in coverage and falling trying to make a tackle or when chasing a guy with the ball in his hands.

vupac1
08-19-2011, 10:14 AM
I think it doesn't matter.

Jackson was a first round pick by us and Allen was is a guy with one year left that we got off the scrap heap.

I've never made fun of Jackson falling down and I never even noticed it or thought it was an issue. BUT there is a big difference in falling down in coverage and falling trying to make a tackle or when chasing a guy with the ball in his hands.

Allen was also a first round pick.. taken higher in the same draft class as JoJo and Cro.. jus sayin

thunderkyss
08-19-2011, 10:46 AM
I can't help but to bring this thread back with a chuckle.

Jason Allen just fell down again:


In all fairness, I think he saw Rackers coming with the wood & was just ducking for cover.

That's what I would've done.

:kitten:

EllisUnit
08-19-2011, 10:11 PM
well if we're comparing how many times jackson fell down to how many times allen fell down :vincepalm:. Kinda means both may be no good huh

76Texan
08-19-2011, 10:28 PM
In all fairness, I think he saw Rackers coming with the wood & was just ducking for cover.

That's what I would've done.

:kitten:

That's rough! :spit:

76Texan
08-19-2011, 10:30 PM
well if we're comparing how many times jackson fell down to how many times allen fell down :vincepalm:. Kinda means both may be no good huh

A 5th year (now going on his 6th) veteran who fell down more times and have more bad plays than a rookie... yeah, you can definitely say that the guy is no good!

76Texan
08-19-2011, 10:36 PM
I think it doesn't matter.

Jackson was a first round pick by us and Allen was is a guy with one year left that we got off the scrap heap.

I've never made fun of Jackson falling down and I never even noticed it or thought it was an issue. BUT there is a big difference in falling down in coverage and falling trying to make a tackle or when chasing a guy with the ball in his hands.

In general, I would say if a guy doesn't fall down, he doesn't try hard enough.
There are guys you don't see falling down, and that's because they are already TOTALLY out of the play. Those are really bad plays to me.

You know I'm just having a little fun here! :brando:

EllisUnit
08-19-2011, 10:40 PM
In general, I would say if a guy doesn't fall down, he doesn't try hard enough.
There are guys you don't see falling down, and that's because they are already TOTALLY out of the play. Those are really bad plays to me.

You know I'm just having a little fun here! :brando:

ok so are we saying the are both trying really hard ?

76Texan
08-19-2011, 10:53 PM
ok so are we saying the are both trying really hard ?

You can see that even when Allen was falling down, many times he was scratching and crawling, trying to do everything he can.

No, he didn't look pretty, but he was trying!
Up to a point though, as a veteran, you need to finish the play more often than just trying.

EllisUnit
08-19-2011, 10:55 PM
You can see that even when Allen was falling down, many times he was scratching and crawling, trying to do everything he can.

No, he didn't look pretty, but he was trying!
Up to a point though, as a veteran, you need to finish the play more often than just trying.

Ok ok i think we have come to common ground, i will stop bashing jackson, they both need to improve no doubt, for the texans sake hopefully they both do.

76Texan
08-19-2011, 11:37 PM
Ok ok i think we have come to common ground, i will stop bashing jackson, they both need to improve no doubt, for the texans sake hopefully they both do.

Basically, when the season starts I cheer for all the players in Texans uni.
I do display some displeasure about poor plays, but never to an extreme.

This thread is way way way too extreme to my standard! :brando::brando::brando:

But then again, the season has yet to start!

ArTex
08-21-2011, 03:07 AM
Responding to quotes, not really trying to bump the thread. (Though there's a nice Jason Allen play from the Saints game to break down if we need some early hints.)

The good news is we're not hearing much about 2nd year corner from SEC conference getting burned in game situations. So perhaps he's making his own case on the field.

So what you are saying, is that since a 5 year vet was slightly better than a rookie we should roll with him?

I guarantee you that Jason Allen is a better CB now than he was in 2006 when he started as a rookie. Between then & now, surely he's learned a few tricks.

It only stands to reason that Jackson will be better than he was his rookie year.

How much better, I don't know. Enough to make him better than Allen by week 1.. maybe, maybe not.

But there are only 8 people between Allen & Jackson on that list. Jackson was a rookie...... Allen had 5 years to figure it out. He hasn't.. other wise he would be no where near #10.

I'd much rather start Brandon Harris if I'm not going to start Jackson. Why? Because after 5 years in the league Allen is only slightly better than Jackson who was pretty bad.

I mostly AGREE with that. Upside > proven scrub.


If the Texans were coming off a playoffs season and are projected for double digit wins, then yes let youngster play his way through within a good system then the NEXT year you get the payoff.

I'm intentionally with "situational short-sightedness" here. The Texans, still, are in a win-now playoffs urgency mode and are not in great position to groom such an important position.

Though did it take Dunta Robinson a lot of time to get acclimated? Demeco Ryans, Amobi Okoye even? Last year the Texans season was lost by week 11 yet KJ still got benched in what should have been "development" time.

Not saying to cut him. He can learn as the 3rd CB and work his way in a little slower.

ArTex
08-21-2011, 03:18 AM
*Oops, NEWB double-post my mistake*

ArTex
08-21-2011, 03:19 AM
I've said many times that we cannot look at stat to evaluate a player's performance.
You cannot isolate different situations the players were in and therefore cannot compare aple to aple.

For example, a secondary that has plenty of pass rush up front and help from the LB in the middle will have an easier time than a secondary that has none.

They both could end up with the same number of yards allowed and the same number of TDs allowed, but you cannot say that they both performed equally.

You can look at the stats, sure. In CONJUNCTION with analysis.

Yes different players have different styles, different systems, different amounts of talent around them. Adrian Peterson's yards per carry is NOT the same as Maurice Jones-Drew. Jamal Charles didnt get his yards like Brandon Jacobs. You have to watch them. And some of them probably didnt hit all the holes they should of hit, maybe left yards on the field.

But its about looking for TELLING stats directly based on analysis. Such as a DB allowing what "looks" to be too many 3rd down conversions, a stat tally will tell you the actual number? If there was a stat that tracked falldowns and Jason Allen has 45 falldowns and Kareem Jackson far less at 30, you'd be inclined to support it.

I have nothing against KJ, I dont want to be "right". I want him to get his chance. But also just want the best chance to win.

Hervoyel
09-11-2011, 03:55 PM
Big catch by wayne on Kareem


Saw that. Kareem still sucks ass. Probably always will. His instincts are lousy.

DocBar
09-11-2011, 03:57 PM
Saw that. Kareem still sucks ass. Probably always will. His instincts are lousy.He looked like he was in a different coverage than the rest of the team on that play. If this is the case, it seems like his football IQ and instincts are both lousy.

foo82
09-11-2011, 04:14 PM
Wow talk about harsh. He gets caught napping on one play in a game that's pretty much over and you guys are all over him.

What about that one play where Joseph got completely burned, and was bailed out by Collins overthrowing it in the end zone? At least Jackson was within a yard from his man, Joseph was completely out of the picture on that one.

Talk about double standards here.

I've never seen so many generalizations on one play before. It's like watching Neil Rackers shanking the 35 yard from pre-season and saying he's got nothing left and that we cut him if he can't even hit from that close.

Fact of the matter is ALL CBs at some point or another gets burned, and you guys are jumping on a second year cb for one bad play.

EllisUnit
09-11-2011, 04:16 PM
Wow talk about harsh. He gets caught napping on one play in a game that's pretty much over and you guys are all over him.

What about that one play where Joseph got completely burned, and was bailed out by Collins overthrowing it in the end zone?

Talk about double standards here.

this is a Kareem Jackson thread. Go start a JOJO thread and thet will surely be discussed.

foo82
09-11-2011, 04:20 PM
this is a Kareem Jackson thread. Go start a JOJO thread and thet will surely be discussed.

Looks at thread title.

Wait what?

EllisUnit
09-11-2011, 04:21 PM
Looks at thread title.

Wait what?

haha yeah talk about a bad smart ass comment. i should of looked at the thread title :vincepalm:.

foo82
09-11-2011, 04:23 PM
haha yeah talk about a bad smart ass comment. i should of looked at the thread title :vincepalm:.

Look before you leap!:cool:

EllisUnit
09-11-2011, 04:27 PM
Look before you leap!:cool:

Yeah well look here. i had said something about that before you posted it :jogger:


http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84837

Hervoyel
09-11-2011, 04:28 PM
Wow talk about harsh. He gets caught napping on one play in a game that's pretty much over and you guys are all over him.

What about that one play where Joseph got completely burned, and was bailed out by Collins overthrowing it in the end zone? At least Jackson was within a yard from his man, Joseph was completely out of the picture on that one.

Talk about double standards here.

I've never seen so many generalizations on one play before. It's like watching Neil Rackers shanking the 35 yard from pre-season and saying he's got nothing left and that we cut him if he can't even hit from that close.

Fact of the matter is ALL CBs at some point or another gets burned, and you guys are jumping on a second year cb for one bad play.

Yes I am. That one bad play followed an entire year of bad plays. He wasn't within a yard of his man, he was lucky to have closed the distance to something like that but the WR ran right past him and Kareem just sort of stood there like he did so many times last season.

I'm going to crap all over Kareem until he has more good standout plays than bad. Hopefully I'm not here doing this all season. Try the veal, I'll at least be here all week.

Oh and one minor point directed at everyone. The thread title might be "Jason Allen bad plays" but the thread is just as much about Kareem Jackson as it is Jason Allen if you read between the lines

Rey
09-11-2011, 05:03 PM
I don't know what the call was. Looked like Kareem was releasing the wr to someone.

As far as Joseph, he did the right thing even though it could/should have cost him.

Defense brought a lot of pressure, you expect a quick throw there or a sack. Joseph is a gambler and at some point you will see a gamble like that pay off.

vupac1
09-18-2011, 05:24 PM
JA did nothing on that pass in the endzone.. BM merly dropped a sure TD

buddyboy
09-18-2011, 05:39 PM
We're talking about how Jason Allen got bailed out by Brandon Marshall dropping a ball that hit him square in both hands. Both players made poor plays, there's no need to be isolating one player or even one poster based on the game.

foo82
09-18-2011, 06:36 PM
One player gave up a huge chunk of yards, while the other did enough to save the opposing team from scoring in the EZ

One got bullied into an endzone, the other one stopped a drive with a nice hit and a force fumble.

foo82
09-18-2011, 06:39 PM
Glover Quin?

Oh look, Jackass just gave them a huge chunk of yards again to a 3rd string WR and put them within 3.

Color me surprise

Are you stupid? It was KJ who got the hit. Glover whiffed the tackle and recovered the fumble.

Also that play was actually well covered. QB put the ball at a damn good spot and WR made an amazing catch.

foo82
09-18-2011, 06:43 PM
Yea, obviously I'm the stupid one

herrrrrrrrrrrpaderrrrrrrp

Must be if you can't differentiate between 25 and 29. Classic if KJ does something good, must be someone else.

buddyboy
09-18-2011, 07:14 PM
Well, you got me. Being dyslexic makes me a huge bumbling moron

Oh well, at least I can still tell who gets burn on a daily basis, and has been putting the opposing team in range to score all day long in a single play. Actually, I'm not even checking the numbers anymore; I'm 90% sure it's always KJ on the receiving end of a pass play for huge yardages, and what do you know, I'm always right.

Classic fan who refuses to change what they believe, just because it would force them to admit they might have been wrong.

1. KJ gifted the Dolphins a ton of yardage on that PI call, no ifs ands or buts. He also prevented a TD on a long pass play across the middle that had no safety help.

2. Jason Allen got absolutely manhandled on the edge where he cannot expect help. If you can't tackle, why play defense?

3. Jason Allen "did enough to prevent a TD"? He did nothing, didn't lay a finger on Marshall, didn't jam a route, was barely in the area for that DROPPED BALL by Marshall.

4. KJ forced the fumble. You can claim it was someone else all you want, criticize other posters for your own mistakes, and "derp derp" all you want, but KJ outplayed Allen THIS GAME. I'm not saying he's the answer, I'm not even saying he's better than Allen as a player. I'm saying that THIS GAME, Allen was the whipping boy of the Dolphins.

LikeMike
09-18-2011, 07:29 PM
Allen can`t stop Marshall physically 1 on 1 - there are few guys in the league that can.

KJ has his fair share of problems in coverage, often playing it too soft or biting on PA or double moves. But he is one of the best tacklers on this team - and he showed that today, not only on that FF.

What did we learn? They both have a lot of things to learn... today, Iīd have to agree with buddyboy, today KJ played better. But Iīm sure glad that we have JJ back there now - that allows KJ and JA to play #2 and #3...

fiasco west
09-18-2011, 07:32 PM
Kareem Jackson is the 2nd best cornerback on the team.

thunderkyss
09-18-2011, 07:36 PM
I don't know what the hell I was thinking. I figured after that game, all the "Allen is the 2nd best corner", or "Allen is better than KJ" talk would stop.

I don't think Jackson is better than Allen. In all honesty, it's a wash. The only difference, is that Allen won't be getting any better. We can cross our fingers & hope against hope that we haven't seen Kareem Jackson's best game.

Allen needs to drop another rung, move McMannis & McCain up. Get those guys some snaps.

ArlingtonTexan
09-18-2011, 07:46 PM
Not really.. what plays has Jackass made as a cornerback (duty is to cover receivers for those unaware) that has helped us as a team this season, or overall in his career?

He is a decent tackler though, I wonder how well he would convert as a linebacker..

Calling one our players Jackass repeatedly is not cool nor funny. It is possible to talk X and O football w/o it.

TexansSeminole
09-18-2011, 07:53 PM
Jason Allen got completely torched today. He should be embarrassed.

Tried to tell yall that the only thing that Jason Allen does is disappoint. His inability to play football is obviously not a secret to the Dolphins.

EllisUnit
09-18-2011, 08:06 PM
Jason Allen got completely torched today. He should be embarrassed.

Tried to tell yall that the only thing that Jason Allen does is disappoint. His inability to play football is obviously not a secret to the Dolphins.

Yeah Marshall did have a few nice plays on him, BUT i saw marshall make 3 big catches against JoJo today as well. So did JoJo get torched as well.

buddyboy
09-18-2011, 09:03 PM
Yeah Marshall did have a few nice plays on him, BUT i saw marshall make 3 big catches against JoJo today as well. So did JoJo get torched as well.

At least one of those catches Marshall made with JoJo right in his grill. On those plays, you just have to shake your head and acknowledge that the offensive player made a great play.

Also, who remembers Allen completely whiffing on a tackle on Marshall out in space after the catch? Pitiful.

Lucky
09-18-2011, 09:40 PM
Wow, all of this bad corner play and the Texans still allow on 40% completions and 4.8 yards/pass play. Imagine how good they'll be when they get good CBs...

TexansSeminole
09-18-2011, 10:53 PM
Yeah Marshall did have a few nice plays on him, BUT i saw marshall make 3 big catches against JoJo today as well. So did JoJo get torched as well.

You cannot be serious with this insinuation.

I have given up on talking with you about cornerbacks.

EllisUnit
09-18-2011, 11:25 PM
You cannot be serious with this insinuation.

I have given up on talking with you about cornerbacks.

Its not an Insinuation its a fact that JoJo allowed a few big catches to Marshall. But does JoJo suck No. We have seen AJ make good CBs look bad, same instance here with JoJo and Allen. Marshall is a beast, i didnt see them put ole K.Jac on B.M very often. He would of had a field day if they had. Hell K.Jac gave up a 30 yard reception to a slow white dude.

TexansSeminole
09-18-2011, 11:43 PM
Its not an Insinuation its a fact that JoJo allowed a few big catches to Marshall. But does JoJo suck No. We have seen AJ make good CBs look bad, same instance here with JoJo and Allen. Marshall is a beast, i didnt see them put ole K.Jac on B.M very often. He would of had a field day if they had. Hell K.Jac gave up a 30 yard reception to a slow white dude.

????????

I think you need to get your eyes checked man. Marshall toasted Allen every time they lined up across from each other. Jason Allen played poorly on nearly every play in which he could possibly have had an impact. Im sitting with Dolphins fans while watching this game and they are all laughing at Allen, hoping that Henne continues to throw near him.

JoJo had a good game too.

Glasses, or contacts. Get em asap.


Sent from my DROID PRO using Tapatalk

EllisUnit
09-19-2011, 12:00 AM
????????

I think you need to get your eyes checked man. Marshall toasted Allen every time they lined up across from each other. Jason Allen played poorly on nearly every play in which he could possibly have had an impact. Im sitting with Dolphins fans while watching this game and they are all laughing at Allen, hoping that Henne continues to throw near him.

JoJo had a good game too.

Glasses, or contacts. Get em asap.


Sent from my DROID PRO using Tapatalk


I never said allen played good. Considering Allen played more than JoJo i assume that allen would of had a worse game. But in the little bit of time JoJo was in he gave up 3 big plays to marshall. For all its worth i know JoJo is better than Allen by a mile but i know Allen is better than K.Jac by a mile as well.

EllisUnit
09-19-2011, 12:06 AM
one more thing. Marshall was thrown to 11 times only caught 6 of them for a total of 79 yards and 1 TD. JoJo gave up 34 of those yards. So Allen gave up 45 yards to Marshall, ewww with Marshall getting thrown to 11 times i don't really see Allen giving up a whooping 45 yards getting torched.

mugrakers
09-19-2011, 12:22 AM
one more thing. Marshall was thrown to 11 times only caught 6 of them for a total of 79 yards and 1 TD. JoJo gave up 34 of those yards. So Allen gave up 45 yards to Marshall, ewww with Marshall getting thrown to 11 times i don't really see Allen giving up a whooping 45 yards getting torched.

Who gave up the TD to him? Who looked like crap against him in the 4rth? Enough said.

JamesBill
09-19-2011, 12:26 AM
Our fanbase has been so used to having a garbage secondary they cannot even recognize a quality one.

Manning and Joseph are the best we have ever had at their position people. Nnamdi allowed some catches tonight, did he "get scorched"? No.

Jackie Chiles
09-19-2011, 12:30 AM
one more thing. Marshall was thrown to 11 times only caught 6 of them for a total of 79 yards and 1 TD. JoJo gave up 34 of those yards. So Allen gave up 45 yards to Marshall, ewww with Marshall getting thrown to 11 times i don't really see Allen giving up a whooping 45 yards getting torched.

Can't really play that ball any better than J Jo did on the big reception by Marshall, not really sure what you getting at. The difference in separation when he was being covered by Allen was massive. It was pitch and catch. And the TD, good lord...

DocBar
09-19-2011, 12:44 AM
Our fanbase has been so used to having a garbage secondary they cannot even recognize a quality one.

Manning and Joseph are the best we have ever had at their position people. Nnamdi allowed some catches tonight, did he "get scorched"? No.Don't forget the pass rush. We're generating consistent pressure on the QB for the 1st time in...well, 10 yrs or so.
I did think Allen was giving way to big of a cushion to Marshall, especially down in the red zone. You can't give a 10 yd cushion when the LOS is the 10 yd line.

BigBull17
09-19-2011, 03:44 PM
There is no contest between KJ and JA yesterday. I thought KJ had a decent game, honestly. The PI was a smart play. Worth a shot to maybe get away with a flag or give up a td.

Norg
09-19-2011, 03:51 PM
Jason allen looks so Miami vice to me

He looks like hes from MIAMI he looks like that rapper Jim jones

TheDream34
09-19-2011, 04:00 PM
Up until yesterday I thought we were being to hard on Allen, now I know why he was cut by Miami

Yankee_In_TX
09-19-2011, 04:02 PM
Can anyone explained when Allen was lined up on about the 1 when the los was about the 12 (on the TD catch)?

I mean from a football/coaching point of view? Even if he makes the tackle on Marshal that puts them on like the 2?

EllisUnit
09-19-2011, 06:48 PM
Who gave up the TD to him? Who looked like crap against him in the 4rth? Enough said.

He gave up 45 yards and 1 TD to Brandon Marshall oh my lord he has got to be cut, seriously people. Marshall gets targeted 11 times, and allen only gets 3 caught against him. Remember that Allen played more than JoJo. 1 game really, if it was against a nobody then yes maybe but B. Marshall is no slouch !

Rey
09-19-2011, 06:55 PM
Can anyone explained when Allen was lined up on about the 1 when the los was about the 12 (on the TD catch)?

I mean from a football/coaching point of view? Even if he makes the tackle on Marshal that puts them on like the 2?

Because the coaches expect that if Marshall runs a short route Allen should be able to come up on the ball and make a play. He didn't and he sucked. You absolutely cannot let a guy bully you into the endzone like that....inexscusable...

gtexan02
09-19-2011, 07:00 PM
Wow, all of this bad corner play and the Texans still allow on 40% completions and 4.8 yards/pass play. Imagine how good they'll be when they get good CBs...

Hahaha exactly. Its like people expect our team to be able to throw an egg for "completion percentage"

Henne had a 57 QB rating with a miserable 5.6 ypa.

ArTex
09-21-2011, 05:16 AM
Decent game by Kareem. Nice forced fumble, not too mad at him on the interference play.

A so-so game by Allen. Didnt get torched. Got lucky with a WR he was covering dropping a TD .

Agree Allen might be just what he is, and Kareem you hope has upside to get incrementally better.

silvrhand
09-21-2011, 09:51 AM
So a few points of what I saw about the game.

- we are playing one of the premier WR in the game, easily in the top 5. The guy is simply put a monster.
- KJ was hurt that I saw at one point in the game anyone have details on that?
- KJ definitely looked better, JA looked down, and JJo was getting beat as well by Brandon Marshall.

Overall we won the game and we aren't getting torched like crazy, it's a good improvement and this week will be a real challenge. What more can we ask for, if we end up in the top 20 defenses and our offense is still clicking I like our chances.

michaelm
09-21-2011, 10:33 AM
Say what you will about KJ, but he made a good decision on the pass interference. I mean, every CB will get beat from time to time, and in a case like that, grabbing his jersey was probably the only thing that prevented a TD.
Happens all the time, even to the best CBs in the league.
It's a very similar decision to an OL taking a holding penalty instead of letting his QB get nailed.

welsh texan
09-21-2011, 10:44 AM
Jason Allen looked really bad on the Marshall TD, and the D looked terrible when he came in to replace the injured JJo.

I think KJ is showing some fantastic improvement this year, having not really been given a chance last year.

TBH, I was very skeptical about KJ going into this season, not because I thought the talent wasn't there, but because after the season he had last year, expected to be the #1 and surrounded by less than stellar talent and coaching, was he too damaged by it?

The early signs seem positive, the PI call was a sound decision the safety had been beat deep too & that will happen from time to time.

Hopefully KJ can become a really good #2 CB under Wade, and one of the other young CBs can prove themselves capable of the slot role eventually.

The sooner we manage to get Jason Allen out of the rotation the better, he's served a purpose for this team, improving a very poor unit mid-season last year, but I've come around to the point of view that the sooner we can train the next guy up the better, and from the number of young corners Wade has kept around (is it 6 or 7? more than will ever be needed to contribute this year) I'd say he shares that long term view.

HOU-TEX
09-21-2011, 11:47 AM
Allen's tackle attempt on Marshall's TD was borderline P-Burntish. Heck, the coverage itself was P-Burntish. Starting with a 10 yd cushion in a goal to go situation? And to back pedal from that cushion at the snap of the ball?

Eh, guess he didn't want to get beat off the bump, but damn.

beerlover
09-21-2011, 12:19 PM
He doesn't have good corner skills/instincts period. I have seen enough. He should be a safety reserve & special teams player only :vincepalm:

thunderkyss
09-21-2011, 12:32 PM
He doesn't have good corner skills/instincts period. I have seen enough. He should be a safety reserve & special teams player only :vincepalm:

Miami tried that too. :kitten:

Ole Miss Texan
09-21-2011, 03:09 PM
So is everybody bashing 76 still or what..... lol

silvrhand
09-21-2011, 05:25 PM
So is everybody bashing 76 still or what..... lol

That ship has sailed.. and I suspec 76Texan is posing his captain morgan picture right now...

EllisUnit
09-21-2011, 08:58 PM
That ship has sailed.. and I suspec 76Texan is posing his captain morgan picture right now...

dont know why KJ has still shown me nothing in 2 games.

dc_txtech
09-21-2011, 09:12 PM
dont know why KJ has still shown me nothing in 2 games.

Legitimate question Ellis, are you more of a Jason Allen fan than a Texans fan? It seems like most of your posts focus on KJ and Allen, plus you joined the board shortly after Allen joined the team.

Anyway, whether I agree with 76's views or not I always appreciate his detailed analysis. He goes very in depth and takes a lot of time to put together well articulated posts with solid visual evidence from the games.

Keep doing what you've been doing 76, love your perspective whether I always agree with you or not.

drs23
09-22-2011, 10:39 AM
dont know why KJ has still shown me nothing in 2 games.

Might wanna watch a little closer then, huh? KJ had a FF and is looking better in coverage. Seems as though you've got a personal grudge against him. Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure sounds that way. JMO

EllisUnit
09-22-2011, 07:00 PM
Legitimate question Ellis, are you more of a Jason Allen fan than a Texans fan? It seems like most of your posts focus on KJ and Allen, plus you joined the board shortly after Allen joined the team.

Anyway, whether I agree with 76's views or not I always appreciate his detailed analysis. He goes very in depth and takes a lot of time to put together well articulated posts with solid visual evidence from the games.

Keep doing what you've been doing 76, love your perspective whether I always agree with you or not.

Haha that is perfect timing. NO i used to be HoustonTexans4Life on the ORIGINAL texans board before they redid it. Then i went to the newer HT.com and was Ellisunit then Oilfieldmafia. I remember a lot of these people from the OLD message boards. I just call it like i see it. Jackson has shown me nothing still, we have faced 0 good QBs thus far. And it just amazes me how Allen is SOOOO terrible AGAIN for allowing just over 40 yards and 3 Rec and 1 TD to Brandon Marshall. And then Jackson can do no wrong. Even with his Dismal 2010 season he was still "#1 Shutdown CB in the NFL" :splits:

buddyboy
09-22-2011, 09:24 PM
Haha that is perfect timing. NO i used to be HoustonTexans4Life on the ORIGINAL texans board before they redid it. Then i went to the newer HT.com and was Ellisunit then Oilfieldmafia. I remember a lot of these people from the OLD message boards. I just call it like i see it. Jackson has shown me nothing still, we have faced 0 good QBs thus far. And it just amazes me how Allen is SOOOO terrible AGAIN for allowing just over 40 yards and 3 Rec and 1 TD to Brandon Marshall. And then Jackson can do no wrong. Even with his Dismal 2010 season he was still "#1 Shutdown CB in the NFL" :splits:

Please, I'd love to see a quote on someone who said that. Oh wait, you're full of...

EllisUnit
09-22-2011, 10:12 PM
Please, I'd love to see a quote on someone who said that. Oh wait, you're full of...

No one has said that :vincepalm:. BUT "people" have made up every excuse in the world for him. It was the safeties fault, it was the Coaches fault. It was the other CB, hell it was the refs like they had a personal vendetta against him. If u would check in more often you would see some of the 1,000 plus post threads that have said all that.

And i don't like Jason Allen that much, but how come it is always "someone" elses fault when its Jackson and always Allens fault when its Allen ?!?!? Double standard IMO

dc_txtech
09-22-2011, 10:56 PM
Haha that is perfect timing. NO i used to be HoustonTexans4Life on the ORIGINAL texans board before they redid it. Then i went to the newer HT.com and was Ellisunit then Oilfieldmafia. I remember a lot of these people from the OLD message boards. I just call it like i see it. Jackson has shown me nothing still, we have faced 0 good QBs thus far. And it just amazes me how Allen is SOOOO terrible AGAIN for allowing just over 40 yards and 3 Rec and 1 TD to Brandon Marshall. And then Jackson can do no wrong. Even with his Dismal 2010 season he was still "#1 Shutdown CB in the NFL" :splits:

What do you think of Jason Allens play on the TD?

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011091813/2011/REG2/texans@dolphins#menu=highlights&tab=recap

If it doesn't automatically direct you look at the 12 yard TD pass to Marshall. That is embarrassing, Marshall makes him look like a kid trying to tackle a man. At least KJ made his mistakes as a rookie and isn't embarrassing our team like this in his 6th season.

EllisUnit
09-22-2011, 11:38 PM
What do you think of Jason Allens play on the TD?

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011091813/2011/REG2/texans@dolphins#menu=highlights&tab=recap

If it doesn't automatically direct you look at the 12 yard TD pass to Marshall. That is embarrassing, Marshall makes him look like a kid trying to tackle a man. At least KJ made his mistakes as a rookie and isn't embarrassing our team like this in his 6th season.

if one play defines an embarrassment for the team , than lots of REALLY good players have embarrassed us. Let J. Allen have 1 bad full season like Jackson had then he will have no slack from me, BUT giving up 3 Rec for a little over 40 yards and 1 TD to Marshall isn't to bad. Yes he got man handled Allen on the TD, but how many good CBs have we seen Johnson abuse ??? More than i can count.

buddyboy
09-22-2011, 11:45 PM
No one has said that :vincepalm:. BUT "people" have made up every excuse in the world for him. It was the safeties fault, it was the Coaches fault. It was the other CB, hell it was the refs like they had a personal vendetta against him. If u would check in more often you would see some of the 1,000 plus post threads that have said all that.

And i don't like Jason Allen that much, but how come it is always "someone" elses fault when its Jackson and always Allens fault when its Allen ?!?!? Double standard IMO

Really? When you put things in quotes, it generally means someone has said it before. All you KJ haters go to the same hyperbolic thinking that everyone else thinks Kareem has proved something, or that we think he's gonna be the next star of the NFL.

Is it possible that these "people" just don't want to condemn the rookie defensive back? That we just simply don't believe that one season makes a career? People have crowed about KJ being a bust, that he'll never amount to anything, yet still, some believe Jason Allen on the flip side is far superior to Kareem.

Yet, here he is, multiple years into the league and showed just as much as Kareem. Just because people aren't ready to label Kareem as a failure, and pointing out the good things he's done this season so far, doesn't mean they're crowning him the "#1 Shutdown CB in the NFL". And if you haven't been able to see either a) JA's shortcomings, or b) KJ's relatively decent play as of late, I don't know what to say

EllisUnit
09-22-2011, 11:58 PM
Really? When you put things in quotes, it generally means someone has said it before. All you KJ haters go to the same hyperbolic thinking that everyone else thinks Kareem has proved something, or that we think he's gonna be the next star of the NFL.

Is it possible that these "people" just don't want to condemn the rookie defensive back? That we just simply don't believe that one season makes a career? People have crowed about KJ being a bust, that he'll never amount to anything, yet still, some believe Jason Allen on the flip side is far superior to Kareem.

Yet, here he is, multiple years into the league and showed just as much as Kareem. Just because people aren't ready to label Kareem as a failure, and pointing out the good things he's done this season so far, doesn't mean they're crowning him the "#1 Shutdown CB in the NFL". And if you haven't been able to see either a) JA's shortcomings, or b) KJ's relatively decent play as of late, I don't know what to say

i dont even know what u are talking about. I never said he was a failure. i said he sucked last season, and he did. BUT a lot of people on here say he didnt suck last season and "Some" say he was our best CB. I know its funny but its true. i wont say any names, but go through the KJ threads and u can easily see what i have been contesting. K.J was pure ass terrible last season, and he hasnt faced a REAL QB yet so until he shows me something my opnion will not change.

EllisUnit
09-23-2011, 12:11 AM
What do you think of Jason Allens play on the TD?

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011091813/2011/REG2/texans@dolphins#menu=highlights&tab=recap

If it doesn't automatically direct you look at the 12 yard TD pass to Marshall. That is embarrassing, Marshall makes him look like a kid trying to tackle a man. At least KJ made his mistakes as a rookie and isn't embarrassing our team like this in his 6th season.

its better than crap like this. Was this WR Jerry Rice, no but he made him look like it.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81bea623/Rivers-finds-Ajirotutu-for-long-TD

and heres jerry rice again

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81bec4c8/Rivers-28-yard-TD

this guy has been cut but he scores

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81ad673b/Williams-2nd-TD

This old man running with his cane

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81aa7e0d/Galloway-62-yard-catch

foo82
09-23-2011, 12:21 AM
its better than crap like this. Was this WR Jerry Rice, no but he made him look like it.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81bea623/Rivers-finds-Ajirotutu-for-long-TD

and heres jerry rice again

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81bec4c8/Rivers-28-yard-TD

this guy has been cut but he scores

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81ad673b/Williams-2nd-TD

This old man running with his cane

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81aa7e0d/Galloway-62-yard-catch

So, you are watching highlights of a rookie thrown on an island with no safety help in arguably one of the hardest positions to learn to prove your point that a 5 year vet is better? Never mind the fact we are arguing who is better this season?



:facepalm:

Ole Miss Texan
09-23-2011, 10:55 AM
So, you are watching highlights of a rookie thrown on an island with no safety help in arguably one of the hardest positions to learn to prove your point that a 5 year vet is better? Never mind the fact we are arguing who is better this season?

:facepalm:
Arguing over who's sh*t stinks worse is always a lose lose situation.

thunderkyss
09-23-2011, 12:13 PM
No one has said that . BUT "people" have made up every excuse in the world for him. It was the safeties fault, it was the Coaches fault. It was the other CB, hell it was the refs like they had a personal vendetta against him. If u would check in more often you would see some of the 1,000 plus post threads that have said all that.

And i don't like Jason Allen that much, but how come it is always "someone" elses fault when its Jackson and always Allens fault when its Allen ?!?!? Double standard IMO

Where are you getting this from? That was not & never was the point of 76Texans' posts, or any one on this board.

He was breaking down Jackson's game, period. That's all you should be taking from those breakdowns. It wasn't about pointing the finger at anyone but Jackson.

The whole premise, was that while irrational people were blaming Kareem Jackson for being the #1 pick of a historically bad defense, he didn't play any worse (& no better) than anyone should have expected a rookie to play.

He broke the film down to show us that Kareem was doing exactly what he was supposed to do most of the time. Then someone would inevitably ask why the pass to the WR on Jackson's side went for so many yards & blah, blah, blah... then you have to answer that question.. but it wasn't a Wilson screwed up on that play, just to say Wilson screwed up on that play.

Kareem screwed up, no one ever denied that he did. But when people started talking about Jason Allen being the best thing since Sliced bread.... he went on to break Allen's game down, which was on par with Kareem.

So then the question is if Allen sucks, but so many people here thinks he is the second coming of Nnamdi Asomugha, why are they so hard on Kareem.... they're the same player, but Kareem's got youth & the prototypical build of an NFL corner.

No, you've got something against Kareem, or (more likely) you're taking your frustrations over last season out on kid who had no say in where he was going to play.

thunderkyss
09-23-2011, 12:18 PM
if one play defines an embarrassment for the team , than lots of REALLY good players have embarrassed us. Let J. Allen have 1 bad full season like Jackson had then he will have no slack from me, BUT giving up 3 Rec for a little over 40 yards and 1 TD to Marshall isn't to bad. Yes he got man handled Allen on the TD, but how many good CBs have we seen Johnson abuse ??? More than i can count.

At least these guys put up a fight.

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/GIFs/35869374.gif

thunderkyss
09-23-2011, 12:22 PM
i dont even know what u are talking about. I never said he was a failure. i said he sucked last season, and he did. BUT a lot of people on here say he didnt suck last season and "Some" say he was our best CB. I know its funny but its true. i wont say any names, but go through the KJ threads and u can easily see what i have been contesting. K.J was pure ass terrible last season, and he hasnt faced a REAL QB yet so until he shows me something my opnion will not change.

Chad Hennie may not be a "REAL QB" but he put up 416 yards on Pro Bowler Devin McCourty & the New England secondary just the week before.

gary
09-23-2011, 01:18 PM
Well, maybe Carmichael or Harris will take a leap forward next off season and become the numer two corner along side Joseph.

foo82
09-23-2011, 02:36 PM
Well, maybe Carmichael or Harris will take a leap forward next off season and become the numer two corner along side Joseph.

Or how about Kareem Jackson taking a leap forward and justifying being the number 2 corner. Jesus I do not understand the hate here. I don't understand how you guys can write someone off in a position that takes about 3 years to develop in just one year.

gary
09-23-2011, 04:50 PM
Or how about Kareem Jackson taking a leap forward and justifying being the number 2 corner. Jesus I do not understand the hate here. I don't understand how you guys can write someone off in a position that takes about 3 years to develop in just one year.Fine with me if that is the case but both Harris and Carmichael are supposed to be great corners too.

EllisUnit
09-23-2011, 04:58 PM
Where are you getting this from? That was not & never was the point of 76Texans' posts, or any one on this board.

He was breaking down Jackson's game, period. That's all you should be taking from those breakdowns. It wasn't about pointing the finger at anyone but Jackson.

The whole premise, was that while irrational people were blaming Kareem Jackson for being the #1 pick of a historically bad defense, he didn't play any worse (& no better) than anyone should have expected a rookie to play.

He broke the film down to show us that Kareem was doing exactly what he was supposed to do most of the time. Then someone would inevitably ask why the pass to the WR on Jackson's side went for so many yards & blah, blah, blah... then you have to answer that question.. but it wasn't a Wilson screwed up on that play, just to say Wilson screwed up on that play.

Kareem screwed up, no one ever denied that he did. But when people started talking about Jason Allen being the best thing since Sliced bread.... he went on to break Allen's game down, which was on par with Kareem.

So then the question is if Allen sucks, but so many people here thinks he is the second coming of Nnamdi Asomugha, why are they so hard on Kareem.... they're the same player, but Kareem's got youth & the prototypical build of an NFL corner.

No, you've got something against Kareem, or (more likely) you're taking your frustrations over last season out on kid who had no say in where he was going to play.

I'm only interested in what actually happened.
I can't control what people think.

No matter what, I would be the first to call myself an ***** to think that Jackson can walk on water.

On top of that, I'm tired of people calling out Jackson as the guy who falls down the most while it was totally untrue.
There's nothing bias about counting the actual number of times a guy fell down and the number of times a guy got beat in one-on-one situation.
It's there, in vivid color; it's not in my imagination.

You haven't seen one tenth of the poor safety play last year.
I have yet to show the bad plays from Allen either (when he played for us.)
I have yet to show the times he fell down or gave up big plays (by himself where he can't count on safety help; ie. outside release by the receiver, when he played for us.)

Allen was poor in tackling and can hardly get off the receiver's block to support the run (there were some big fat running plays too).

And the famous 3rd and 19 where most people only remember Bentley.
I wanted to slap Allen on the head for that play!
He simply stood there and watched the TE stretch out and reach the ball for the first down.

If Ellisunit counted 20 bad plays by Jackson (in 16 games), I can count at least 30 by Allen (less than 13 games.)

On the last play of the game, Allen was also beaten by a slant.
Sanchez can go either way to get his TD!

Earlier, Allen had allowed a 27-yd pass to Edwards to give the Jets the ball at the Texans 10. They scored a TD a couple plays later.

(Allen had at least 3 more bad plays in the game, and got away with a couple more - including one that could have gone 77 yards for a TD; he also committed a PI and got away with one.)

So, yes, Allen and McCain both played very big parts in the lost!

i guess if jackson does it, ref Dolphins game, it is ok.

It should be easy to show if there were that many that contribute a major part in many losses, why can't EU or you show me?



Or at least tell me, for example, you may claim that Arijotutu's 2 TDs was a major reason that we lost to the Chargers.
To this, I've gone to the extent to show several CBs (including Pro-Bowlers like Aso, Rashean Mathis, and Newman) who played the coverage exactly the way Jackson played it.
If you insist to charge the long TD to these CBs then at least you need to explain to me why they did what they did.

You can't claim that one long TD pass in the Cowboys game was a major part.
That 63yd TD to R. Williams should be at most a 20yd gain.
Nobody can tell me that the safety Wilson who lined up outside the hashmarks against a one-receiver route is allowed not to get to the Numbers - which is a mere 7-8 yards away (only one other receiver went as far as some 3 yards accrosss the LOS and was responsible for by Quin and Pollard on the other side.)
You can claim a 20-yd catch on Jackson, but not the TD.
If Wilson had made some kind of contact, Jackson would have been there to join him.

I would also bring up the long pass play that Jackson played the rule well to drive Dez Bryant out of bound to force an incompletion.
He forced Bryant out of bound on anther pass play, against within the rule, that resulted in a penalty on Bryant for an illegal catch.
He mantained his landmark well on another pass play in which they flooded his zone hi-lo with 2 receivers; an incompletion that brougth up 3rd and 20 for the Cowgurls.

If you claim that he was a major contibutor to the loss, I strongly disagree.

Or you may claim the Giants game (as Lucky thought Nicks made Jackson his biatch based on a few short-medium plays, which I strongly disagree - I will get to this game later if I have some time.)

Don't forget that Jackson had an INT that gave the ball to the offense at the Jets 17 and we scored a TD off that.

Even if you add the long pass play to Smith, I would tell you the same way EU said about how Quin gave up the TD pass in the Jets game, and not Allen.
Well, the Giants only got a FG out of Smith's catch.

So a 6-yd back-shoulder fade TD to Nikcs is negated by the INT that led to 7 points for the Texans.
You can only point out a difference of 3 pointss on Jackson, and that can't be defined as MAJOR.

WHAT ELSE?
I don't think you can put much else on Jackson as MAJOR contributor to any loss.

Of course those 2 tds aren't why we lost :vincepalm:


I've already presented a couple of game analyis (Colst week 1) and Jets.
It showed that KJax was the CB that had the best performance of the day in each.
Give me time and and I will upload screenshots to show all of that.
(But why can't you show me anything that prove your point , that KJax sucked?)

Now, I don't have Sanders, but if you reread this whole thread, you can see Aso getting burned against the Chargers, not just by the same two-receiver route (in which he was much further away from the action than KJax), but also a 34-yd backshoulder fade on which he was also called for PI.
He also got called for holding and PI on two other seperate plays where he can't afford to let the receiver cut back to the outside. (These are in the gamebook at NFL.com, I don't need to post screenshots of penalties, do I?)
He also got beat as he allowed Floyd to cut back to the outside on another play, but Rivers left the ball just long due to pressure.

Or as Lucky put it, he was "owned" by Floyd the whole game.

Here's a slant route:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Asomugha/KJ%20or%20Aso/15yd%20slant/

Here's a post route:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Asomugha/KJ%20or%20Aso/13yd%20post%20route/

see KJ is better than Aso :turtle:

Well, if we don't know what the secondary was supposed to be playing then how can we blame KJax on these plays (the 2-receiver route)?

Should we just file it under questionable instead?

What I learn is the from either cover one or cover 3, the drop kick call was one of the ways to defend the pattern (safety staying back is the other).

I found the drop-kick call in Wade's playbook (when he was in Atlanta); it's not something that I made up.
We saw it in action in one of the example I gave.
The Yates' INT.

This thread isn't supposed to cover all the plays involving KJax;
its title is Jackson's plight.
It is meant to show certain plays KJax was being blamed for are at least questionable.

If I have time, I will get to all the important plays in each game.

PERFECT EXAMPLE

Allen can run with most receivers, but too often, he can't finish the play.
In a way, he's like JJ of the defense, dropping a few catches more than you would like to see.

I know you like Harris.
My opinion is that he's Jackson younger brother.

"Au contraire" to what you thought, I watched Aso about half a dozen times recently to study him. He's not in zero coverage at any time (The Texans were.) They rolled the safety over to help him just as much as the Texans did to Jackson. On the average, he received better safety help.

of course see safties fault as always

I have put down all the situations you said (on this play).

I talked about the LB not getting depth, and about the shuffle techqniue.
I also said Jackson was unable to squeeze the route more to the inside.
I didn't let him off the hook.

I still maintain the two more important points however:

1. In cover 3, the safety cannot break before the ball is thrown unless he made a great read or the D had a drop-kick call on.
Otherwise, they would just have to bide their time ang give up the crossing route like the Chargers safety did, giving up a 17yd gain to JJ and a 33-yd gain to Casey.
Jammer was a #5 pick overall in 2003; why can't the Chargers let him alone to cover the deep route?

2. If there was a drop-kick call, Quin needed to head directly toward the play.

....

You are asking too much of Jackson in this instance even though you've seen how far Aso was from the play (he was even further away than Jackson.)

You've seen that Walter could have had a TD if the ball was thrown to a receiver on stride.

So why can't Aso man-up and make a tackle before the receiver crossed the goal line?
What was the use of him being out there?

KJ is better than ASo again ?!?!?

i will post 100 more posts from 76 confirming all this later.

thunderkyss
09-23-2011, 05:24 PM
i guess if jackson does it, ref Dolphins game, it is ok.



Of course those 2 tds aren't why we lost :vincepalm:




see KJ is better than Aso :turtle:



PERFECT EXAMPLE



of course see safties fault as always



KJ is better than ASo again ?!?!?

i will post 100 more posts from 76 confirming all this later.

I'm reading all this, & I'm not seeing you proving your point. It's exactly what I said... he started the threads to show how KJac played & the Jason Allen fan club turned them into a KJac vs Allen slap-fight.

& he's not saying KJac is better than Aso, only that Aso played certain situations the same way.

It is meant to show certain plays KJax was being blamed for are at least questionable.
PERFECT EXAMPLE


Of what? Plus I haven't seen the "KJax was our best cornerback last year" that you claimed was in one of those threads somewhere.

KJax play was solid for a rookie playing the toughest position to learn, especially at the end of the season. I guarantee you people will be talking about how much he's improved this year, when the truth is he wasn't nearly as bad as many perceived. They have good reasons for their perception, because he was bad... But there are very few corners drafted outside the top 10 start from day 1 in the NFL that played as well as we expected Jackson to.

EllisUnit
09-23-2011, 05:28 PM
I'm reading all this, & I'm not seeing you proving your point. It's exactly what I said... he started the threads to show how KJac played & the Jason Allen fan club turned them into a KJac vs Allen slap-fight.

& he's not saying KJac is better than Aso, only that Aso played certain situations the same way.



Of what? Plus I haven't seen the "KJax was our best cornerback last year" that you claimed was in one of those threads somewhere.

KJax play was solid for a rookie playing the toughest position to learn, especially at the end of the season. I guarantee you people will be talking about how much he's improved this year, when the truth is he wasn't nearly as bad as many perceived. They have good reasons for their perception, because he was bad... But there are very few corners drafted outside the top 10 start from day 1 in the NFL that played as well as we expected Jackson to.

He started the thread about KJac and then everything wrong started getting blamed on everyone else. And i promise you that 76 said KJac was our best CB, said he was even better than Quin but i will find it. I have like 5 KJac is god threads i have to go through that were started by 76.

EllisUnit
09-23-2011, 05:41 PM
I also presented the safeties in these plays as they were.
I look at what their job assignments were and whether they were able to fullfill them.

On the R. Williams play, for example.
It was a one-receiver route with Wilson lining up on that side.
If a safety cannot provide any form of help in that instance, thre's no other conclusion that can be drawn other than he failed utterly at his job.

On the Jabar Gafney 50yd catch (which was actually on a different thread), the Texans were in cover 2 (5-underneath zone, not man).
There was only one receiver on that side and he (Gaffney) ran a skinny post right toward Nolan's landmark.
Nolan bit on the run fake and vacated his zone.

Jackson stretched his zone more than 30 yards and ran after the receiver.
But in an underneath zone, you can ask the CB to stretch only so much.
(I can show you a Dunta play I happen to found to show you how much further away from the receiver Dunta was.)

The mistake was unequivocally Nolan's.
It had nothing to do with Jackson's speed.

In a 5 underneath - 2 deep zone, the CB seeks his landmark, looks for the QB, and reacts.

It's not Jackson's fault that Nolan failed to keep his assignment.
But because Jackson ran after the receiver that he was blamed for the play.
(If only you remember who posted a link to that video in the first place, you would know that he's one of the harshest critics of Jackson, and he was completely bias there.)

Both Jackson and Harris play the same type of coverage in college (pattern matching).
They both play out of the backpedal or turn and run.

Harris split time between CB and nickel (against slot receivers whose speed and size are not the same as a wide-out.)
If you watch Jackson at Alabama, he was your description of Aso at the collegiate level.
Jackson never lost a foot race against the collegiate receivers he faced.
It's been awhile and I don't have my notes, so I can't remember if Harris ever did (I think he did).
Basically, I saw Jackson sticking with the receivers a little better than Harris.
Jackson played help defense (when he comes off his man to help another receiver) a little better than Harris.
Jackson gets off blocks to support the run quite better than Harris.

That's why I say I saw Harris as Jackson's younger brother.

Why do you think they are two different type of corners?
Maybe I missed something!?!

In about 8 games that I watched Aso, he wasn't on his own any more than we saw of Jackson (as of my estimate).
I never saw the Raiders play zero coverage (no safety help).
The Texans did.

all about Jackson ??? See perfect example of bringing a guy noone even mentioned in to make his boy look better.

Do you keep track of the times Jackson fall down?
I'm not sure I saw a lot of it.

The R.Williams play, he slipped because Williams pushed on the back shoulder and then pulled on the arm.

In the Giants game, I know there was a bubble screen in which he stepped inside Pollard and his man. I will take a much more detail look, but I'm pretty sure that as he made a change of direction while staying low to the ground. He put a hand on the ground in the proccess, which is a technique; I don't think he slipped.

There was one play I know he fell dwn on his own, but get right up (maybe the Oakland game, maybe on a run by Mcfaden.) It wasn't a big problem as the other guys; it was a run.

I don't keep track of them; there might be one or two more?

At any rate, I've seen other guys slip on their own.
Quin at least twice for sure, Allen at least twice (in just 7 ).
I've seen McCain slipped, Pollard slipped, Wilson slipped.

I'm still not sure what was the big deal with this.
Personally, I think it was just a good joke that caught on like wild fire.

Of course for K.Jac it was technique. Still only about Jackson ???

I really do appreciate your detailed response.

I understand and can see where you're coming from.

All we can do is to take a look of each seperate play and try to guess as to what the defense was trying to do. (But that goes for both you and I, and everybody else.)

At the end of the day, everything lies on the shoulder of CB.

I will find time respond to the bolded part, on a play by play basis soon as I can.


ok that is all you need to know, all his break downs all his Kjac is god because the safety blew his assignment our whoever is to blame besides Kjac is B.S. He analysis the plays and twists and turns them to fit his view. No need in arguing about it anymore if everyone wants to see the true 76 blind love for Kjace then just go through his 5 "Kjac is god" threads.

TexCanada
09-23-2011, 06:08 PM
ok that is all you need to know, all his break downs all his Kjac is god because the safety blew his assignment our whoever is to blame besides Kjac is B.S. He analysis the plays and twists and turns them to fit his view. No need in arguing about it anymore if everyone wants to see the true 76 blind love for Kjace then just go through his 5 "Kjac is god" threads.

Wow, you are way off base here. Any of your arguments are basically negated because of your crazy exaggeration of saying that 76 calls him "God". IMO 76 does a great job of relaying his opinions of the breakdowns. I know I enjoy the read.

EllisUnit
09-23-2011, 06:26 PM
Wow, you are way off base here. Any of your arguments are basically negated because of your crazy exaggeration of saying that 76 calls him "God". IMO 76 does a great job of relaying his opinions of the breakdowns. I know I enjoy the read.

:vincepalm: really. i think sarcasm has died in America along with Democracy :boogie:

thunderkyss
09-23-2011, 07:00 PM
Of course for K.Jac it was technique. Still only about Jackson ???


You're not hearing me. His threads started out, "look at KJ on this play. He does this.... he's supposed to. He did that.... that's what he should do. Then he did this & that..... again, like he should.

Then some Jason Allen enthusiast or KJ hater would turn the argument to the completion that occurred.

You are correct in thinking that if 76Texans' assumptions are not right & the coverage was not what he thought it should be, then his analysis is way off base.

But the point is that his premise holds water.

If you have another theory (which it sounds like you do) the right thing to do would have been to start your own thread, or at least provide the visual evidence that everyone else played their responsibilities as well as they should have, then you would have an argument.

If you have evidence of Kareem never playing one good down, then you would have an argument. Showing a few highlights of him getting beat (badly) doesn't help you, because we already concede he played badly, we already concede that he was not ready to start in 2010. We already concede there was a speed issue, a technique issue & a cleats issue.

kiwitexansfan
09-23-2011, 07:09 PM
:vincepalm: really. i think sarcasm has died in America along with Democracy :boogie:

Your post didn't read like sacracsm. It read like a rant against one of the more constructive posters on the board.

buddyboy
09-23-2011, 07:52 PM
all about Jackson ??? See perfect example of bringing a guy noone even mentioned in to make his boy look better.



Of course for K.Jac it was technique. Still only about Jackson ???




ok that is all you need to know, all his break downs all his Kjac is god because the safety blew his assignment our whoever is to blame besides Kjac is B.S. He analysis the plays and twists and turns them to fit his view. No need in arguing about it anymore if everyone wants to see the true 76 blind love for Kjace then just go through his 5 "Kjac is god" threads.

I don't understand how some posters can go into threads where the original poster puts time and effort into meticulously breaking down plays second by second, analyzing where players are, their positions, their assignments, how the play broke down, how they think the play was designed, what went wrong, and what could have caused the end result...

and then make some blanket comment like, "KJ sucks" or "KJ fell down again."

I appreciate 76's posts, even if I don't agree some of the time, because I know he put in time and effort to break down the play, not just look at it during the game, even just rewatch it on your DVR once. He breaks it down, presents his evidence, and people just make blanket statements without making comment on the proof he presented. The only proof they need is the confidence that they don't miss things when watching the game.

I'd put much more weight into your argument if you went into one of the plays he analyzed and said, "you know what, I don't think this play was drawn up like that because of this, this, and this. Look at the alignment, look at where teh safety is, you're off base." Instead, you throw around hyperbole, cry about how everyone think KJ is the second coming of Nnamdi, and throw out youtube clips of poor plays by KJ.

EllisUnit
09-23-2011, 08:28 PM
I don't understand how some posters can go into threads where the original poster puts time and effort into meticulously breaking down plays second by second, analyzing where players are, their positions, their assignments, how the play broke down, how they think the play was designed, what went wrong, and what could have caused the end result...

and then make some blanket comment like, "KJ sucks" or "KJ fell down again."

I appreciate 76's posts, even if I don't agree some of the time, because I know he put in time and effort to break down the play, not just look at it during the game, even just rewatch it on your DVR once. He breaks it down, presents his evidence, and people just make blanket statements without making comment on the proof he presented. The only proof they need is the confidence that they don't miss things when watching the game.

I'd put much more weight into your argument if you went into one of the plays he analyzed and said, "you know what, I don't think this play was drawn up like that because of this, this, and this. Look at the alignment, look at where teh safety is, you're off base." Instead, you throw around hyperbole, cry about how everyone think KJ is the second coming of Nnamdi, and throw out youtube clips of poor plays by KJ.

he speculates, gives his opnion on what he "thinks" the defense/coaches were trying to do. I could care less if you like my argument our not. But the fact of the matter is that according to him it is always the safties, LBs, coaches fault when it comes to a KJ break down in coverage. And the when it is Allens fault it is always allen and noone else. If he would give a fair assesment then fine but to always try to justify KJ failures with the bad play of everyone else is just not fair, nor true.

EllisUnit
09-23-2011, 08:33 PM
You're not hearing me. His threads started out, "look at KJ on this play. He does this.... he's supposed to. He did that.... that's what he should do. Then he did this & that..... again, like he should.

Then some Jason Allen enthusiast or KJ hater would turn the argument to the completion that occurred.

You are correct in thinking that if 76Texans' assumptions are not right & the coverage was not what he thought it should be, then his analysis is way off base.

But the point is that his premise holds water.

If you have another theory (which it sounds like you do) the right thing to do would have been to start your own thread, or at least provide the visual evidence that everyone else played their responsibilities as well as they should have, then you would have an argument.

If you have evidence of Kareem never playing one good down, then you would have an argument. Showing a few highlights of him getting beat (badly) doesn't help you, because we already concede he played badly, we already concede that he was not ready to start in 2010. We already concede there was a speed issue, a technique issue & a cleats issue.

i would like to see where 76 confessed all this stuff about KJ. Look T i like reading ur posts and agree with you on about 95% of everything. I just dont think it is right to say KJ was only bad because of everyone else failing to do their jobs. And then when its Allen everyone suddenly plays so well and he is the one who messes up. It is a double standard.

thunderkyss
09-23-2011, 08:51 PM
I just dont think it is right to say KJ was only bad because of everyone else failing to do their jobs. And then when its Allen everyone suddenly plays so well and he is the one who messes up. It is a double standard.

When that happens, I'm sure he's throwing your logic right back at you & you don't even see it.

76Texan likes Allen just as much as he likes KJax, because they are both Texans. He wouldn't be arguing one over the other if he wasn't coerced. At least that's the way I see it.

If everyone was unfairly accusing Allen of being the worst CB ever, he would have done the same thing for Allen, breaking down his plays & showing us that the really, really bad plays were not solely Allens fault, but some of the responsibility lies in the veterans behind him who were supposed to be "covering" for him.

If everybody was saying that KJax was undoubtedly much, much better than Allen, his argument would be the same & he would provide visual evidence and a frame by frame breakdown and analysis that would show they were more on par with each other than anything else.

Look, I don't know where you got off with this KJax rant... I haven't notice so much hatred from you towards any other player (who didn't deserve it). But you're one of the few hanging on to the KJax hate & I don't understand it.

I'm done with this, because I don't see this getting anywhere for the better anytime soon.

But think about what we are saying

buddyboy
09-23-2011, 09:16 PM
he speculates, gives his opnion on what he "thinks" the defense/coaches were trying to do. I could care less if you like my argument our not. But the fact of the matter is that according to him it is always the safties, LBs, coaches fault when it comes to a KJ break down in coverage. And the when it is Allens fault it is always allen and noone else. If he would give a fair assesment then fine but to always try to justify KJ failures with the bad play of everyone else is just not fair, nor true.

I don't think you're getting what I'm saying. I agree what he does is speculation and his opinion. I just wish you and the other people who maintain that KJ is a failure would simply look at the game film of the plays he broke down and state where they believe he is in error.

He'll show a play where he believed Kareem was supposed to have safety help over the top because of formation, and instead of an argument that no, the safety help was definitely supposed to roll to the other side, there's the argument that "NO, KJ SUCKS LOL".

So, in all these plays that you claim he is making unfair assessment...please, honestly, I'd like to see evidence and intelligent conversation of why based on game film you think he is incorrect.

drs23
09-23-2011, 10:28 PM
he speculates, gives his opnion on what he "thinks" the defense/coaches were trying to do. I could care less if you like my argument our not. But the fact of the matter is that according to him it is always the safties, LBs, coaches fault when it comes to a KJ break down in coverage. And the when it is Allens fault it is always allen and noone else. If he would give a fair assesment then fine but to always try to justify KJ failures with the bad play of everyone else is just not fair, nor true.

Just quoting this post but have read each and every one in this thread and have come to the conclusion that you're full of shit. :D

How many times do you need to be called out in a pissin' match to figure out ya maybe need to back up and look at things a little more objectively? I won't go as far as calling you out as a Jason Allen 'jock hanger' but it sure seems close.

I know everyone chooses their own battles but I personally think you could have found a better one, but maybe that's just me.

Carry on, I guess. :gun:

EllisUnit
09-23-2011, 11:15 PM
Just quoting this post but have read each and every one in this thread and have come to the conclusion that you're full of shit. :D

How many times do you need to be called out in a pissin' match to figure out ya maybe need to back up and look at things a little more objectively? I won't go as far as calling you out as a Jason Allen 'jock hanger' but it sure seems close.

I know everyone chooses their own battles but I personally think you could have found a better one, but maybe that's just me.

Carry on, I guess. :gun:

bingo.

EllisUnit
09-23-2011, 11:27 PM
When that happens, I'm sure he's throwing your logic right back at you & you don't even see it.

76Texan likes Allen just as much as he likes KJax, because they are both Texans. He wouldn't be arguing one over the other if he wasn't coerced. At least that's the way I see it.

If everyone was unfairly accusing Allen of being the worst CB ever, he would have done the same thing for Allen, breaking down his plays & showing us that the really, really bad plays were not solely Allens fault, but some of the responsibility lies in the veterans behind him who were supposed to be "covering" for him.

If everybody was saying that KJax was undoubtedly much, much better than Allen, his argument would be the same & he would provide visual evidence and a frame by frame breakdown and analysis that would show they were more on par with each other than anything else.

Look, I don't know where you got off with this KJax rant... I haven't notice so much hatred from you towards any other player (who didn't deserve it). But you're one of the few hanging on to the KJax hate & I don't understand it.

I'm done with this, because I don't see this getting anywhere for the better anytime soon.

But think about what we are saying

think about what i'm saying. Can it really be everyone else blows assignments and makes KJ look bad our did KJ contribute to him looking bad ??? thats all i'm saying !

thunderkyss
09-23-2011, 11:45 PM
think about what i'm saying. Can it really be everyone else blows assignments and makes KJ look bad our did KJ contribute to him looking bad ??? thats all i'm saying !

We're all saying (I know I said I was done with this, but... ) that KJ played bad.

But there were some good spots as well.

The thing he has to work on, is putting more of those good spots together. One of the reasons he looked better at the end of the year, is because he wasn't left out there all day, Allen came in to spell him from time to time..

If KJax played 44 snaps a game, only a handful of them were truly bad (highlight material for the other guy)....... maybe a twenty or so were very good. His biggest challenge is playing at a level 76Texans' breakdowns show he is capable of for 100% of the snaps he takes.

If he can do that, then he'll be hands down way better than Jason Allen who has the same problem today...... maybe Allen has never been in the environment where it was "cool" to work on your game & that is why he is the player he is today. Same problem as KJax.... too inconsistent. It's possible that he can get better, more consistent, but the odds are against it.

EllisUnit
09-23-2011, 11:57 PM
We're all saying (I know I said I was done with this, but... ) that KJ played bad.

But there were some good spots as well.

The thing he has to work on, is putting more of those good spots together. One of the reasons he looked better at the end of the year, is because he wasn't left out there all day, Allen came in to spell him from time to time..

If KJax played 44 snaps a game, only a handful of them were truly bad (highlight material for the other guy)....... maybe a twenty or so were very good. His biggest challenge is playing at a level 76Texans' breakdowns show he is capable of for 100% of the snaps he takes.

If he can do that, then he'll be hands down way better than Jason Allen who has the same problem today...... maybe Allen has never been in the environment where it was "cool" to work on your game & that is why he is the player he is today. Same problem as KJax.... too inconsistent. It's possible that he can get better, more consistent, but the odds are against it.

well i will say i hope KJ does pan out to be an all Pro. And yes it is obvious i do like Allen, i dont know why i just like his coverage skills. Many disagree but i noticed a big change last season when we signed him and he came into the games. That being said he may turn out to be just another bum like pollard/wilson. Who knows either way i want our secondary to be good so i hope both can turn things around. A few play off wins and maybe a superbowl and i doubt we care who is better then.

thunderkyss
09-24-2011, 07:04 AM
well i will say i hope KJ does pan out to be an all Pro. And yes it is obvious i do like Allen, i dont know why i just like his coverage skills. Many disagree but i noticed a big change last season when we signed him and he came into the games. That being said he may turn out to be just another bum like pollard/wilson. Who knows either way i want our secondary to be good so i hope both can turn things around. A few play off wins and maybe a superbowl and i doubt we care who is better then.

Personally, I don't think Pollard is a bum... I think he's a specific kind of player that will feast when certain conditions exist & die of famine when they don't.

He belongs in a pressure system, the way we played in 2009 suited him very well, what the Ravens do will suit him very well..... Asking him to play a cover 2 shell....... a Tampa two... ain't going to work.

Eugene... well, I think he was past his prime. Fans (not me) here saw the declining play before 2009, the Texans did a bad job of finding a replacement for him.

welsh texan
09-25-2011, 04:32 PM
Welcome to Toan's Blog!

I thought I'd post this question here as it seems to concern the DB's as a whole more than just JA;

Did I see Glover Quin playing CB on one of the Saints' TD's in the 2nd half? I thought I saw him lined up on the outside 1 on 1, the announcers called the play as having 'no safety help over the top' but Quin is the safety, was this a broken coverage where Quin had to come up and play CB because someone else wasn't where they were meant to be pre-snap or was it by design?

He got beaten pretty bad on the play, but was left on an island on his own so maybe a bad play call??

EllisUnit
09-25-2011, 04:34 PM
Welcome to Toan's Blog!

I thought I'd post this question here as it seems to concern the DB's as a whole more than just JA;

Did I see Glover Quin playing CB on one of the Saints' TD's in the 2nd half? I thought I saw him lined up on the outside 1 on 1, the announcers called the play as having 'no safety help over the top' but Quin is the safety, was this a broken coverage where Quin had to come up and play CB because someone else wasn't where they were meant to be pre-snap or was it by design?

He got beaten pretty bad on the play, but was left on an island on his own so maybe a bad play call??

yeah i saw that, but if i recall i have seen quin come up and play CB a few times this season. dunno why though.

thunderkyss
09-25-2011, 04:46 PM
yeah i saw that, but if i recall i have seen quin come up and play CB a few times this season. dunno why though.

They said when we go nickel or dime, sometimes we'll drop Quin to Corner & bring Nolan on

I think they're saying Nolan is a better safety than Brandon Harris is a CB

EllisUnit
09-25-2011, 05:14 PM
I didnt see to many J. Allen bad plays today, wont be much to add to this thread, where is the K. Jac bad play thread at ?

EllisUnit
09-25-2011, 05:19 PM
Just quoting this post but have read each and every one in this thread and have come to the conclusion that you're full of shit. :D

How many times do you need to be called out in a pissin' match to figure out ya maybe need to back up and look at things a little more objectively? I won't go as far as calling you out as a Jason Allen 'jock hanger' but it sure seems close.

I know everyone chooses their own battles but I personally think you could have found a better one, but maybe that's just me.

Carry on, I guess. :gun:

whats that you say Drs ????? Still so full of shit ?

thunderkyss
09-25-2011, 06:47 PM
I didnt see to many J. Allen bad plays today, wont be much to add to this thread, where is the K. Jac bad play thread at ?

There were several.....

but if you want a KJax bad play thread, if you do a search, I'm sure you can find one.

EllisUnit
09-25-2011, 06:51 PM
There were several.....

but if you want a KJax bad play thread, if you do a search, I'm sure you can find one.

hmm i didnt see many, 1 missed tackle and 2 receptions allowed is all i remember. But no i dont want the Kjac bad thread brought up, hell i'm pretty sure i started it. Hell it may be fun to bring it back up :)

thunderkyss
09-25-2011, 06:51 PM
To expand on my last post, there were several bad plays by the secondary, even my favorite, Glover Quin.

Hopefully everyone saw the bad angles Nolan takes, I think I saw three today, there was at least three last week.

Jonathan Joseph could have played better as well. But the biggest problem with our secondary, was that there was literally no pass rush in the second half.

I thought this would be an opportunity for Brooks Reed to show us some of what we saw in the preseason....... unless that was just preseason stuff.

Antonio had a great first half...... same as Watt.

But how many batted balls did we see?

The Saints adjusted, we didn't.

thunderkyss
10-04-2011, 06:24 PM
Some of those throws were just money balls. The back shoulder stuff is VERY hard to stop if the qb slings it like Ben does. Allen had a pretty good game overall.

Ok, sooner or later we're going to play a game where it matters. & if Jason Allen is playing serious minutes & he plays the way he played Sunday, it's going to matter.

He did not have a good game overall. The Texans' defense had a good game overall & Allen benefited a lot. Rothlisberger was off very often & that is why some ducks went sailing into never land..... never to be heard from again.

If we were playing against Drew Brees (which is the game we're judging KJax on) those same throws would have gone for much bigger gains.... maybe even touchdowns.

He flat out got beat too many times & he was lucky that the OL got beat & Ben couldn't make a better throw.

That final INT, wasn't good coverage. It was an overthrown ball & a heads up play for Allen to locate it & go get it.

EllisUnit
10-04-2011, 06:30 PM
Ok, sooner or later we're going to play a game where it matters. & if Jason Allen is playing serious minutes & he plays the way he played Sunday, it's going to matter.

He did not have a good game overall. The Texans' defense had a good game overall & Allen benefited a lot. Rothlisberger was off very often & that is why some ducks went sailing into never land..... never to be heard from again.

If we were playing against Drew Brees (which is the game we're judging KJax on) those same throws would have gone for much bigger gains.... maybe even touchdowns.

He flat out got beat too many times & he was lucky that the OL got beat & Ben couldn't make a better throw.

That final INT, wasn't good coverage. It was an overthrown ball & a heads up play for Allen to locate it & go get it.


again please show me all his bad plays, he gave up 5 rec out of 10 and 67 yards, hell JoJo who was on Wallace all day gave up 4 Rec on 4 targets for 77 yards. Saying he had a bad game is just not viable, regardless of if ben was under pressure all day, we all know he can move good in the pocket and still find an open man.

Rey
10-04-2011, 07:27 PM
Has Kareem made any impact plays close to what Allen did this past game since he's been here?

Both of them get beat.

But I'm going to take the guy that shows ability to make big plays all day everyday.

That's why jacoby still has a job. That's why slaton was given an opportunity. That's why trindon holiday is going to be given every opportunity to stick around and one day hopefully get it together and make the team. Play making ability is why teams drum up injuries to keep guys on IR.

Play making ability is what separates scrubs from guys with potential. If Kareem shows any kind of playmaking ability I'd want him on the field over Allen all day. He's more physical and he tackles 1000 times better. But as a corner back where you are guaranteed to be beat and get caught on, you have to show some playmaking or shutdown ability.

Kareem has shown neither. Allen has shown one of the two.

Start Allen. He will take his lumps and get beat like he stole something, but I have much more confidence that he can make a big momentum swing of a play.

thunderkyss
10-04-2011, 07:40 PM
Has Kareem made any impact plays close to what Allen did this past game since he's been here?

Both of them get beat.

But I'm going to take the guy that shows ability to make big plays all day everyday.


I agree with you. If the coaches decide to start Allen, to go with a 60-40 Allen/Kareem split, I can understand it & I'll have no problem with it.

Bernard Pollard was also a play-maker, but he couldn't cover. Allen's cover skills are better than Pollard's, but no where near what a #2 corner's should be. He's a liability.

As long as the plays made outnumber the plays lost.. his mistakes are going to be overlooked. This year, he might look really good, because all the good QBs are behind us now.

But when(if) we get to the play-offs, we're going to play the good QBs & Jason Allen won't be good enough (not saying KJ will be either).