PDA

View Full Version : Johnson, Ryans & Smith Redo Contracts to get under the Cap


ThaJokaa
08-04-2011, 02:37 PM
Not sure if it was posted already. If so, just merge them.

Two more key Texans, inside linebacker DeMeco Ryans and defensive end Antonio Smith, had to join the spectator ranks Thursday morning as the team wrestled with salary cap issues resulting from the new collective bargaining agreement between the owners and players.

It would have been three, but Andre Johnson was already out after suffering a compound finger dislocation Monday. Ryans, Smith and Johnson all agreed to have their contracts re-done in order to get the Texans under the $120.4 million limit. They were $8.5 million over before asking the three veterans to help fix the problem.

The suddenly unsigned players couldn’t practice because they wouldn’t have been covered by insurance had they gotten injured.

“It’s win-win,” said Johnson, who, like the Ryans and Smith, will actually get more money up front in the form of a signing bonus that’s factored differently into the overall salary equation. “You do it to help sign more players. That’s just part of being a teammate. The more players we bring in, the more competition we have, the better the team gets. That’s just the way I look at it.

“We all want to be successful around here, and this is going to help the team be successful.”

Smith was already on the practice field when general manager Rick Smith called him aside to make his pitch for help.

“I didn’t understand it as first,” the eight-year veteran admitted. “I don’t have any recollection of anybody doing something like this before. It is what it is. I guess it has something to do with the structure of our contracts. I can’t say what made us candidates, but I want to win, so I want to help the team. That’s the main focus.”

Added Ryans: “It’s all good. Anything I can do to help us get better, to get where we need to be . . . I’ll do anything to help this team out.”

Smith and Ryans are expected to be back for this afternoon’s walk-through practice. It’s hoped the other veterans in limbo because of the CBA’s loose ends, including the two new defensive backs, Johnathan Joseph and Danieal Manning, will also be participating fully.

Head coach Gary Kubiak pushed back the workout, originally scheduled for 2:45 p.m. with just special teams, to 4:30 in the hopes that the matter would be fully resolved. The deadline for getting under the cap is 3:01 p.m.

Read more: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/7683315.html#ixzz1U5gQm1vu


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/7683315.html

TimeKiller
08-04-2011, 02:57 PM
Rick Smith: Hey Andre, how 'bout we just give you 2 mil per year for the rest of your life?

Ckw
08-04-2011, 03:00 PM
Man, I have a man crush on this dude.

“It’s win-win,” said Johnson, who, like the Ryans and Smith, will actually get more money up front in the form of a signing bonus that’s factored differently into the overall salary equation. “You do it to help sign more players. That’s just part of being a teammate. The more players we bring in, the more competition we have, the better the team gets. That’s just the way I look at it.

http://media.lehighvalleylive.com/sports_impact/photo/9083410-large.jpg

Porky
08-04-2011, 03:14 PM
While I commend these 3 guys for helping out the team, I wonder if they would have been so caring about the team if Smith had asked them to take a pay cut instead of a restructure that leads to more upfront cash. :kitten:

Mr. White
08-04-2011, 03:18 PM
I thought LZ had an interesting take on the restructurings.

@LanceZierlein

Lance Zierlein
The fact that the Texans didn't restructure and extend Mario Williams proves that they aren't married to him. He must impress this year.

Rey
08-04-2011, 03:43 PM
I thought LZ had an interesting take on the restructurings.

So does that mean that they are married to Antonio smith?

Maybe they thought Mario was the one who could least afford to miss practice time.

Ole Miss Texan
08-04-2011, 03:48 PM
How do you restructure a guy (to help the cap) that's playing in the last year of his contract?

EDIT: Nevermind I see LZ said "restructure and extend". I think the prudent thing would definitely be to see how Mario plays this season. Plus, that's going to be a huge high dollar deal that takes some time to negotiate. It's much much quicker and easier to restructure an existing contract than to work out a brand new deal extending a player like that. This had to get done today.

badboy
08-04-2011, 03:48 PM
So does that mean that they are married to Antonio smith?

Maybe they thought Mario was the one who could least afford to miss practice time.First thing popped into my mind was this could lower Smith's cap in 2012 if they decide to cut or trade him.

Mr. White
08-04-2011, 03:50 PM
How do you restructure a guy (to help the cap) that's playing in the last year of his contract?

That's why he said "restructure and extend." May not be a big deal, just thought it was an interesting way to look at it.

SheTexan
08-04-2011, 03:51 PM
Man, I have a man crush on this dude.



http://media.lehighvalleylive.com/sports_impact/photo/9083410-large.jpg

I've had a lady crush on him for years! :)

I know a lot of you guys aren't very religious, BUT, I truly thank GOD above for sending us AJ!! AND Demeco!! Two of the finest players in the league, and absolutely two of the finest MEN you will find anywhere!

IF we ever get to the SB, I will sell everything I own to be there, if I have to, just to see these two guys celebrate! They deserve it, as well as all us diehards who never give up!!

b0ng
08-04-2011, 03:52 PM
So does that mean that they are married to Antonio smith?

Maybe they thought Mario was the one who could least afford to miss practice time.

Since the CBA is now ratified Smith missed all of one practice. It's an educated guess on the part of LZ but it's somewhat based in reality.

Is there a franchise tag still? I imagine if Mario completely blows his stack and notches a big number in the sack dept he could get franchised then traded/re-signed. Definitely no point in trading him right now.

Ole Miss Texan
08-04-2011, 03:55 PM
That's why he said "restructure and extend."
LOL, I read that as soon as I posted. I don't disagree with what LZ is saying, I just find it hard to believe they'd be able to agree to something so quickly with Mario and his agent.

I can't see us letting Mario walk next offseason either. I think we either franchise him or work out a deal. If they don't want him or his 'new' contract on this team, I could see franchising him and finding a trade partner. He'd work out a long term deal with that team.

EDIT: Hah, I see Bong beat me to it. I'm so slow today!

Dutchrudder
08-04-2011, 03:59 PM
First thing popped into my mind was this could lower Smith's cap in 2012 if they decide to cut or trade him.

Yeah, I was thinking that too. I doubt he will be traded due to him being overpaid, but if nothing else, it gets him close to his guaranteed money and is available to be cut next year if he fails as a 3-4 DE.

Rey
08-04-2011, 04:03 PM
Since the CBA is now ratified Smith missed all of one practice. It's an educated guess on the part of LZ but it's somewhat based in reality.

Is there a franchise tag still? I imagine if Mario completely blows his stack and notches a big number in the sack dept he could get franchised then traded/re-signed. Definitely no point in trading him right now.

Mario is in the last year of his contract.

Lz isn't saying anything because if they planned on extending Mario they would have done it already.

They wouldn't use the fact that they have to be under cap to "extend" a player. Using that logic they aren't married to any player. No one got an extension, they just re worked the guys who had multiple years remaining.

Mario may have declined an extension for all we know. He may think that any extension he got now would be a low ball offer. The team may want to gauge his value before they offer him a fair market contract.

All I'm saying is that I disagree with lz here in that it "proves" anything. There are several other possibilities as to why they chose not to extend his contract at this time besides them wanting to remain open to the possibility to let him walk after the season.

Also smith isn't playing a position that's foreign to him. Mario is.

nytexan
08-04-2011, 04:09 PM
LOL, I read that as soon as I posted. I don't disagree with what LZ is saying, I just find it hard to believe they'd be able to agree to something so quickly with Mario and his agent.

I can't see us letting Mario walk next offseason either. I think we either franchise him or work out a deal. If they don't want him or his 'new' contract on this team, I could see franchising him and finding a trade partner. He'd work out a long term deal with that team.

EDIT: Hah, I see Bong beat me to it. I'm so slow today!

You were right to begin with. If Mario has a big year, 16M on the cap won't be coming down anytime soon after the contract Carolina gave Charles Johnson. They weren't going to save any money renegotiating Mario's contract and if they did, Mario's agent wouldn't be for long. LZ is way off base on this one.

badboy
08-04-2011, 04:12 PM
IMO Mario can be a key to Texans future by staying or going. IF he does very well as Phillips says he will in this last year, we can re-sign him or trade him for quite a bit. We can franchise or allow him to go leaving a bit of cap space in next off season. Can't see how Texans can lose. The new CBA should keep a future contract with Mario reasonably riced.

Rey
08-04-2011, 04:18 PM
IMO Mario can be a key to Texans future by staying or going. IF he does very well as Phillips says he will in this last year, we can re-sign him or trade him for quite a bit. We can franchise or allow him to go leaving a bit of cap space in next off season. Can't see how Texans can lose. The new CBA should keep a future contract with Mario reasonably riced.

Honest question,

Why would we trade Mario if he does very well like Phillips suggests?

b0ng
08-04-2011, 04:21 PM
Mario is in the last year of his contract.

Lz isn't saying anything because if they planned on extending Mario they would have done it already.

They wouldn't use the fact that they have to be under cap to "extend" a player. Using that logic they aren't married to any player. No one got an extension, they just re worked the guys who had multiple years remaining.

Mario may have declined an extension for all we know. He may think that any extension he got now would be a low ball offer. The team may want to gauge his value before they offer him a fair market contract.

All I'm saying is that I disagree with lz here in that it "proves" anything. There are several other possibilities as to why they chose not to extend his contract at this time besides them wanting to remain open to the possibility to let him walk after the season.

Also smith isn't playing a position that's foreign to him. Mario is.

LZ is basically guessing (As I alluded to in my previous post). It neither proves nor disproves anything other than they found 3 players besides Mario to work out their contracts. Hell, Schaub even said he was willing to re-work his deal and they skipped by him. So again, nobody knows, we are all just guessing here.

Rey
08-04-2011, 04:42 PM
LZ is basically guessing (As I alluded to in my previous post). It neither proves nor disproves anything other than they found 3 players besides Mario to work out their contracts. Hell, Schaub even said he was willing to re-work his deal and they skipped by him. So again, nobody knows, we are all just guessing here.

Well maybe I read his quote differently, but it sure read like a definitive statement to me. Not nit picking you, just saying that I thought his statement was off base.

b0ng
08-04-2011, 04:54 PM
Well maybe I read his quote differently, but it sure read like a definitive statement to me. Not nit picking you, just saying that I thought his statement was off base.

I honestly can't think of a beat writer in Houston that I would ever take at face value of being totally right all the time. LZ is good with X's and O's but he's not that keen on what's going on in free agency and roster movement. McClain is. . . well yeah, he's the Walrus goo goo g'joob. Justice could be replaced by any member of this MB and it would probably be better football analysis and Solomon is just your run of the mill pot-stirrer.

All in all, for good X's and O's discussion about the Texans I go here or BRB, and FA moves are almost always confirmed by Schefter/Glazer/Clayton those guys.

I'd say most of Houston's writers are largely forgettable and useless.

JimBaker488
08-04-2011, 09:41 PM
Of course I know nothing about the specifics of these restructurings, but it sounds like it could present the 3 players in this kind of a deal with some unfavrible situations re income recognition from an income tax perspective ?

Wolf
08-04-2011, 10:44 PM
AJ(Alan's) take on it
When an NFL contract is restructured, a significant portion of base salary from the old contract is converted to signing bonus which the player receives immediately. The signing bonus amount is then spread (prorated evenly) over the remaining years of the contract for cap accounting purposes.

Re-structures have win-win situation potential. The team gets immediate cap relief and the player gets a big check sooner instead of later. The only downside for the team is when the player is released with years remaining on his deal. When a player is released, the unrealized portion of the signing bonus 'accelerates' to the current year as 'dead money' on the cap.

But enough about cap accounting, what's noteworthy here isn't whose contract was re-structured, it was whose contract wasn't re-structured.

Mario Williams is in the final year of his six-year, $54 million ($26.5 million guaranteed) rookie deal he signed in 2006.

Williams' base salary this season is just under $14 million. That's a big cap number and is more than double the base salaries of Johnson, Ryans and Matt Schaub.

If there was ever a contract screaming for re-structure, it's a contract of of a player who's in the prime of his career, in the final year of his deal, and who counts a ton against the cap.

That is if the team wants to keep said player.

Texans fans were a bit skeptical when we first heard that Wade Phillips was moving to Mario to linebacker.

But we were reassured. Mario will become our version of DeMarcus Ware and he'd be rushing the passer 95% of the time and we'd all live happily ever after.

"He's got the talent," said Phillips. "With him standing up, he lines up a little wider, and he's coming every time on a different angle. This gives him the chance to be the premier rusher, just like DeMarcus." (chron.com)

So if the Texans have their version of Ware, why aren't they locking him up long-term?





http://www.examiner.com/houston-texans-in-houston/texans-re-structure-three-contracts-to-get-under-cap-mario-s-not-among-them

TexanSam
08-04-2011, 10:46 PM
I've had a lady crush on him for years! :)

I know a lot of you guys aren't very religious, BUT, I truly thank GOD above for sending us AJ!! AND Demeco!! Two of the finest players in the league, and absolutely two of the finest MEN you will find anywhere!

IF we ever get to the SB, I will sell everything I own to be there, if I have to, just to see these two guys celebrate! They deserve it, as well as all us diehards who never give up!!

I thank the almighty Matt Millen for choosing Charles Rogers instead of Andre Johnson.

Ole Miss Texan
08-05-2011, 08:48 AM
AJ(Alan's) take on it

http://www.examiner.com/houston-texans-in-houston/texans-re-structure-three-contracts-to-get-under-cap-mario-s-not-among-them
I'm still not convinced this says too much about Mario. That's a long term high dollar deal that will take a while to negotiate between the team and mario/his agent. It's adding 4-5 new years to the contract and committing a TON more money. Dre, Demeco and Smith's deals weren't really renegotiated and extended.... just restructured which is 100x easier and quicker to do. I think Alan and LZ are reading too much between the lines here, although there is some truth to what they're saying: Mario is kind of wait and see. I don't see how extending Mario right this second is a smart business move for the Texans. They can get under the cap in other easier and quicker methods that doesn't put out more money and more guaranteed money to a player.

PS - They could have done the same with Schaub, he's got 2 years left. Extend/restructure Schaub who said he was willing to do so. By not doing so what is it say about their thoughts on Schaub? (just stirring the pot a little)

noxiousdog
08-05-2011, 09:02 AM
I'm still not convinced this says too much about Mario. That's a long term high dollar deal that will take a while to negotiate between the team and mario/his agent. It's adding 4-5 new years to the contract and committing a TON more money. Dre, Demeco and Smith's deals weren't really renegotiated and extended.... just restructured which is 100x easier and quicker to do. I think Alan and LZ are reading too much between the lines here, although there is some truth to what they're saying: Mario is kind of wait and see. I don't see how extending Mario right this second is a smart business move for the Texans. They can get under the cap in other easier and quicker methods that doesn't put out more money and more guaranteed money to a player.

PS - They could have done the same with Schaub, he's got 2 years left. Extend/restructure Schaub who said he was willing to do so. By not doing so what is it say about their thoughts on Schaub? (just stirring the pot a little)

They didn't have to wait until the last minute, and if they wanted to lock up that money should have been working on it prior to (and during tbh) the lockout.

There's definitely some wait and see going on here.

edit: If nothing else, 4-3 defensive ends get paid significantly more than 3-4 outside linebackers. It may be regardless of wanting him back, they might not be able to afford him. Saying that, let me look up a few guys to verify.

The Pencil Neck
08-05-2011, 09:08 AM
By restructuring the contracts of Andre Johnson, DeMeco Ryans and Antonio Smith, the Texans are $2.6 million under the salary cap.

-- McClain.

Ole Miss Texan
08-05-2011, 09:10 AM
They didn't have to wait until the last minute, and if they wanted to lock up that money should have been working on it prior to (and during tbh) the lockout.

There's definitely some wait and see going on here.

edit: If nothing else, 4-3 defensive ends get paid significantly more than 3-4 outside linebackers. It may be regardless of wanting him back, they might not be able to afford him. Saying that, let me look up a few guys to verify.

I don't disagree. But during the lockout were they allowed to negotiate with Mario and give him a new contract? They weren't sure what the new CBA would look like either so it's smarter just to wait since its not a huge pressing issue.

As far as 4-3 vs 3-4, that's a good question. It will be interesting to see how that plays out just from a position/contract standpoint. Sounds like Mario's going to be playing DE in a 4-3 during passing situations anyways and be a pass rusher on every other down just about, so I don't think Rick Smith can pull that card too much. Time will tell.

Ole Miss Texan
08-05-2011, 09:12 AM
By restructuring the contracts of Andre Johnson, DeMeco Ryans and Antonio Smith, the Texans are $2.6 million under the salary cap.
-- McClain.
Great! Question though: They had to be under the cap by August 4th... what about when they have final roster cuts and the season starts? There will be a lot of players cut, we may sign a few more players. How do we manage against the cap then? If we have to slim down the roster, there could be extra space available unless the cap is adjusted for a different roster size. Has anybody read about that?

There's still room for another good player! lol

The Pencil Neck
08-05-2011, 09:15 AM
Great! Question though: They had to be under the cap by August 4th... what about when they have final roster cuts and the season starts? There will be a lot of players cut, we may sign a few more players. How do we manage against the cap then? If we have to slim down the roster, there could be extra space available unless the cap is adjusted for a different roster size. Has anybody read about that?

There's still room for another good player! lol

That's what I was saying in another thread earler. We need some wiggle room under the cap in case something comes up. And as we start going through our cuts, we're going to free up a little more space.

Probably for some street FAs or trades. :kingkong:

noxiousdog
08-05-2011, 09:28 AM
OLB
Ware: 2009 - 7 years 79 million. 40 guaranteed
Harrison: 2009 - 6 years 51 million. 20 guaranteed
Hali: 2011 - 5 year 60 million. 35 guaranteed
Suggs: 2009 - 6 year 62.5 million 38.1 guaranteed
Woodley: 2011 - 6 year 61.5 (27 in first two years)

DL
Freeney: 2007 - 6 years 72 million 31 guaranteed
Allen: 2008 - 6 years 74 million 31 guaranteed
Peppers: 2010 - 6 years 84 million 42 guaranteed
Johnson: 2011 - 6 years 76 million. 32 guaranteed

noxiousdog
08-05-2011, 09:31 AM
I don't disagree. But during the lockout were they allowed to negotiate with Mario and give him a new contract? They weren't sure what the new CBA would look like either so it's smarter just to wait since its not a huge pressing issue.

They weren't allowed to contact the player, nor sign a contract Regardless, there's a lot of wink wink, nudge nudge that goes on.

You saw how quickly Owen Daniels got done. Also, Jacoby's.

No way that happens if there's no contact during the lockout.