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m5kwatts
08-01-2011, 07:01 PM
This was Mike Lombardi on Bill Simmons' BS Report on Thursday 7/28

Keep in mind this was before Asomugha signed with the Eagles

Simmons asking Lombardi if signing Asomugha makes Houston a contender:

"No, because I thought the quote of the year was Eric Winston when he found out about the new practice rules he said 'you know, look, we have the leading rusher in the league and we never went in pads' and to me it proves why I don't like Houston as a team, they're not physical."

Simmons chimes in "yeah"

Lombardi continuing:

"...they've got to prove to me they can do some things that can be effective down the line in terms of they're physical toughness, and when I read the Winston quote I was like, this to me would be evidence to prove my point about the Houston Texans."

Simmons then tries to go on to ask him about another topic and Lombardi interrupts:

"They think they're being physical, when in reality they can't get physical because they never practice physical."

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=6813168

I actually think the problem is the exact opposite, it's MENTAL toughness that this team lacks. I think they proved physically they can do it better than anyone, evidenced by leading the league in rushing.

Also, is this even entirely true? I seem to remember them having pads atleast one day a week. Regardless, I don't mind not overworking players during the week. The wear and tear of a 20 game schedule preseason included is too much. And I don't see a correlation between being in pads hitting your own teammates on Wednesday translating to hitting on Sunday.

Also, "hitting" i.e. physicality really wasn't THAT big of an issue with this defense last year. We had hitters, we just didn't have coverers. THAT is the real issue.

To me, the "physical" knock on the Texans is so 2009. Which goes to show how much attention dunce cap Lombardi paid to the Texans last year.

badboy
08-01-2011, 07:05 PM
This was Mike Lombardi on Bill Simmons' BS Report on Thursday 7/28

Keep in mind this was before Asomugha signed with the Eagles

Simmons asking Lombardi if signing Asomugha makes Houston a contender:

"No, because I thought the quote of the year was Eric Winston when he found out about the new practice rules he said 'you know, look, we have the leading rusher in the league and we never went in pads' and to me it proves why I don't like Houston as a team, they're not physical."

Simmons chimes in "yeah"

Lombardi continuing:

"...they've got to prove to me they can do some things that can be effective down the line in terms of they're physical toughness, and when I read the Winston quote I was like, this to me would be evidence to prove my point about the Houston Texans."

Simmons then tries to go on to ask him about another topic and Lombardi interrupts:

"They think they're being physical, when in reality they can't get physical because they never practice physical."

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=6813168

I actually think the problem is the exact opposite, it's MENTAL toughness that this team lacks. I think they proved physically they can do it better than anyone, evidenced by leading the league in rushing.

Also, is this even entirely true? I seem to remember them having pads atleast one day a week. Regardless, I don't mind not overworking players during the week. The wear and tear of a 20 game schedule preseason included is too much. And I don't see a correlation between being in pads hitting your own teammates on Wednesday translating to hitting on Sunday.

Also, "hitting" i.e. physicality really wasn't THAT big of an issue with this defense last year. We had hitters, we just didn't have coverers. THAT is the real issue.

To me, the "physical" knock on the Texans is so 2009. Which goes to show how much attention dunce cap Lombardi paid to the Texans last year.I think this was discussed in another thread last week. Please remember that Mike Lombardi's mom was a tough old dude.

thunderkyss
08-01-2011, 07:06 PM
This was Mike Lombardi on Bill Simmons' BS Report on Thursday 7/28

Simmons asking Lombardi if signing Asomugha makes Houston a contender:

"No, because I thought the quote of the year was Eric Winston when he found out about the new practice rules he said 'you know, look, we have the leading rusher in the league and we never went in pads' and to me it proves why I don't like Houston as a team, they're not physical."


Well, you know what they say.

Those that can coach..... those that can't are like Michael Lombardi.

Who gives a shit what he says.

I actually saw the clip myself.... & I thought... he's got a point.

The worst part of the whole thing, is that the Texans keep saying, "But we are physical... we are!"

I don't hear the Ravens trying to convince people they're a physical football team.

They (Eric Winston included) need to just shut up & win. Then they can say, "no, we aren't "really" physical, but we just whupped your ass."

TheMatrix31
08-01-2011, 07:06 PM
I don't even know if we were mentally soft. We were resilient as shit last year, considering all the holes we put ourselves in. Shitty preparation and execution, but crazy resolve to get back into pretty much every game.

Double Barrel
08-01-2011, 07:13 PM
When I hear the term "physical toughness" as it pertains to a football team, I tend to think of a team like the Steelers imposing their will on opponents. If they need a yard, they are going to die trying to get that yard. If they need to make a stop on defense, they are going to go through a brick wall to make that stop.

The Texans have never been that kind of team.

Rey
08-01-2011, 07:14 PM
Truth hurts.

Grams
08-01-2011, 07:14 PM
I don't think we have mental toughness or a physical presence on the field.

The offense has some as they can and often do - march down the field and put the team in scoring position with 2 min left.

But then the defense gets out there and all they have to do is stop the opponent's offense - once. They always seem to fail.

Where is the smash mouth, kick them when they are down attitude? The Steelers, Ravens, Giants, etc always seem to play with much more intensity.The Texans look like high schoolers compared to them.

Hopefully with these "high motor" guys they drafted and a new DC and coaches we will see some of this.

If so - maybe we can win a lot more than we lose for a change.

barrett
08-01-2011, 07:51 PM
I always site Matt Schaub's first game back after his MCL. Green Bay, freezing cold. The Texans are tough. They didn't finesse that win. They beat the Packers up and took that game home by force.

TheMatrix31
08-01-2011, 07:52 PM
The Texans have never been that kind of team.


And they won't. And that's fine. We're a finesse team. Perfectly fine.

m5kwatts
08-01-2011, 07:58 PM
I just think people need to get out of their heads that PHYSICAL=WINNING. The Texans didn't need to be more "physical" last year, they needed to cover better, MUCH better in fact. Like I said, the "get physical and we'll win more" knock is so 2009.

This team led the league in rushing, and that was playing catch-up in a majority of their games. They can move defenses, they haven't even had Schaub-Andre-Foster-OD fully healthy together at once ever. If the Texans could improve their ability to cover, up to being in the top 16, it'll be playoffs and possibly more.

Grams
08-01-2011, 07:59 PM
I always site Matt Schaub's first game back after his MCL. Green Bay, freezing cold. The Texans are tough. They didn't finesse that win. They beat the Packers up and took that game home by force.

Too bad they don't play like that each game.

Doppelganger
08-01-2011, 08:04 PM
Well, you know what they say.

Those that can coach..... those that can't are like Michael Lombardi.

Who gives a shit what he says.

I actually saw the clip myself.... & I thought... he's got a point.

The worst part of the whole thing, is that the Texans keep saying, "But we are physical... we are!"

I don't hear the Ravens trying to convince people they're a physical football team.

They (Eric Winston included) need to just shut up & win. Then they can say, "no, we aren't "really" physical, but we just whupped your ass."

tough or soft doesn't make a difference. Wins and losses do. Nobody would say Indy is "physical" but they win games.

Cjeremy635
08-01-2011, 08:12 PM
I have to agree with him. Our defense has been soft. They don't impose any kind of will on the opposing team. They appear afraid of driving their helmet into their opponent's chest and burying them into the turf. I would like for them to change that this year and they have the perfect opportunity to do that. A new coach, scheme, and players may give them the confidence to not fall into the same old "here we go again" feeling. Time will tell what they are. They can talk all they want to, but actions speak louder than words. I hope they prove Lombardi and everyone else wrong.

Texans_Chick
08-01-2011, 08:18 PM
Without examples, Lombardi's statement is intellectually dishonest.

The Texans were among the best in the league in short yardage, esp in red zone. You can't do that if you are total wusses.

The primary reason why the Texans sucked last year is that their defense turned every opposing offense but for the Rusty Smith led Titans into an opponent that had a better offense than the Texans.

I don't care physical the Texans practiced. If you have inexperienced corners + significant injuries on defense + unproven coordinator = suckage.

Texans_Chick
08-01-2011, 08:20 PM
I have to agree with him. Our defense has been soft. They don't impose any kind of will on the opposing team. They appear afraid of driving their helmet into their opponent's chest and burying them into the turf. I would like for them to change that this year and they have the perfect opportunity to do that. A new coach, scheme, and players may give them the confidence to not fall into the same old "here we go again" feeling. Time will tell what they are. They can talk all they want to, but actions speak louder than words. I hope they prove Lombardi and everyone else wrong.

Bad doesn't equal soft. Bad equals bad. That was just bad defense. They were bad on first, second, third down.

Corrosion
08-01-2011, 08:39 PM
When I hear the term "physical toughness" as it pertains to a football team, I tend to think of a team like the Steelers imposing their will on opponents. If they need a yard, they are going to die trying to get that yard. If they need to make a stop on defense, they are going to go through a brick wall to make that stop.

The Texans have never been that kind of team.

How many teams can you think of in the history of the NFL that had that kind of toughness ?


Those 70's Steeler teams , the Shula Dolphins and maybe the Gibbs coached Redskins. Other than that , I think you have to go back to the Lombardi coached Packers to find a team that had that identity over a period of multiple years. I'd almost throw the recent Ravens teams into that group.

The few other teams that put together multiple championships were more finesse teams .... Cowboys & 49ers twice , Patriots , Rams and even the Dolts of today even tho they have only won one title.

HoustonFrog
08-01-2011, 08:43 PM
Ahem...cough, cough...ahem..I could have your job Lombardi..week earlier


http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83269&highlight=Winston

ThaShark316
08-01-2011, 08:52 PM
The Texans knocked people in the face...just couldn't stop a soul. I think there's a difference.

fiasco west
08-01-2011, 08:55 PM
I just think people need to get out of their heads that PHYSICAL=WINNING. The Texans didn't need to be more "physical" last year, they needed to cover better, MUCH better in fact. Like I said, the "get physical and we'll win more" knock is so 2009.

This team led the league in rushing, and that was playing catch-up in a majority of their games. They can move defenses, they haven't even had Schaub-Andre-Foster-OD fully healthy together at once ever. If the Texans could improve their ability to cover, up to being in the top 16, it'll be playoffs and possibly more.

Thank you.

Wuss teams don't lead the league in rushing.

The only non-physical part of the Texans were the secondary, and that's because they were usually too far from the receivers to even get physical so they never even had a chance.

HoustonFrog
08-01-2011, 09:02 PM
Thank you.

Wuss teams don't lead the league in rushing.

The only non-physical part of the Texans were the secondary, and that's because they were usually too far from the receivers to even get physical so they never even had a chance.

Not exactly true. They run a system that is built on cut blocks ands is more system blocking than smash mouth. They can do well in short yardage but that doesn't mean teams think they are physical. Look at the teams that have beat them down the last 2-3 years...physical teams...and when the Texans do comeback it is chucking it 30 times in a half. So I can kind of see where he is coming from on both sides of the ball. Even Rex Ryan said that was their thought process against the Texans 2 years back.

houstonspartan
08-01-2011, 09:21 PM
Well, you know what they say.

Those that can coach..... those that can't are like Michael Lombardi.

Who gives a shit what he says.

I actually saw the clip myself.... & I thought... he's got a point.

The worst part of the whole thing, is that the Texans keep saying, "But we are physical... we are!"

I don't hear the Ravens trying to convince people they're a physical football team.

They (Eric Winston included) need to just shut up & win. Then they can say, "no, we aren't "really" physical, but we just whupped your ass."

lol!!! Totally agree with you.

badboy
08-01-2011, 09:39 PM
Not exactly true. They run a system that is built on cut blocks ands is more system blocking than smash mouth. They can do well in short yardage but that doesn't mean teams think they are physical. Look at the teams that have beat them down the last 2-3 years...physical teams...and when the Texans do comeback it is chucking it 30 times in a half. So I can kind of see where he is coming from on both sides of the ball. Even Rex Ryan said that was their thought process against the Texans 2 years back.While true, Myers is the only player that probably would not prefer to play smash mouth drive them back football. I am not a big fan of the ZBS but it has been working.

The O should be even better with OD closer to 100%, Schaub's knowledge that Foster can also catch the ball, Tate to spell the other two & hopefully either Walter or JJ to have a better year.

The lighter Dline shut me up last two years as they were able to control the run pretty well & Phillips seems confident the 3-4 he utilizes can hold the scrimmage line while LBs clog the run & "disturb" the QB. IMO, the DBs should be better if only by having another year behind them. They were very young @ most positions. Manning and JJ? Bring it on!:thisbig:

GP
08-01-2011, 09:46 PM
Someone on here last year was talking about Lombardi's infatuation with talking trash on the Texans, and how it was not exactly unbiased analysis.

Was he ever seeking our GM job? Or was it because he was a bad GM himself or something? There was something there that made a person state that Lombardi is not being completely level.

Is he completely wrong? Maybe not. But is he completely right? No. So what is his beef with us? I mean, the guy gets noticeably angry when talking about how bad the Texans are.

He makes Herv look like Thunderkyss.

Wolf
08-01-2011, 09:50 PM
2009 TT talk thread about how Michael Lombardi thinks the Texans need to start over (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65354)

PhilpW
08-01-2011, 10:10 PM
Winning shuts up douche bags!

Ole Miss Texan
08-01-2011, 10:29 PM
You have to be tough to play in the league. What this team is missing are the true blue collar workhorse type of players that just want to be out there bleeding and knocking the piss out of people. Wade drafted 3 of them this year in Watt, Reed and Keo. We have Cushing and Barwin that are like that. We need the hard nosed Detroit and New Jersey type of guys that eat a bowl of nails every morning for breakfast. That's the defense I like. That's the kind of O-line I like.

jaayteetx
08-01-2011, 10:39 PM
You have to be tough to play in the league. What this team is missing are the true blue collar workhourse type of players that just want to be out there bleeding and knocking the piss out of people. Wade drafted 3 of them this year in Watt, Reed and Keo. We have Cushing and Barwin that are like that. We need the hard nosed Detroit and New Jersey type of guys that eat a bowl of nails every morning for breakfast. That's the defense I like. That's the kind of O-line I like.

Vickers would be a nice addition.

Rey
08-01-2011, 10:41 PM
Keo looked awful getting his neck ran through on the goal line by Boise states rb.

Good players get ran over sometimes but man. . .not like that. Not when you are set up and see the guy coming. Maybe he underestimated the guy.

I don't know what year it was from, but hopefully he left that junk on college.

JimBaker488
08-01-2011, 10:55 PM
I don't think he's really talking about toughness or being physical.
Probably the most successful franchise of the current period, the Patriots,
has never been described as a physical team but nobody criticizes them for not being so, and neither do they criticize them for being a finesse team, which is what they probably are. But they win, so everyone just calls them winners.

El Tejano
08-01-2011, 11:11 PM
Someone on the Texans organization needs to print out these quotes and make them wall paper in the Texans Facilities.

DocBar
08-01-2011, 11:18 PM
Did some televangelist channel Vince Lombardi in a seance?? If not, eho gives a rats ass what this guy thinks?

Lucky
08-01-2011, 11:24 PM
tough or soft doesn't make a difference. Wins and losses do. Nobody would say Indy is "physical" but they win games.
Right. So that makes the Texans both soft and losers.

I don't particularly care for Lombardi. I don't know if he's clued into the Texans or has even watched them play more than a handful of times the past couple of years. But, he's been nails on his evaluation of the Texans. The Texans don't compete with good teams. Under Kubiak, the Texans are 10-27 versus teams with a winning record.

Maybe other teams have won by playing a finesse style. The Colts, the Dolphins in the Marino era, The Niners with Montana and Rice. But, Joe Montana and Jerry Rice aren't walking through that door. ANd if they were, they'd still need physical players like Lott, Romanowski, And Haley on the defensive side. Don't tell me the Texans can win by playing a finesse style, because they have yet to win playing this style.

Maybe that can change this year. Maybe Wade can instill that toughness. But after watching the Texans lose their most physical player on offense, I'm beginning to believe in what Lombardi is saying. He's been right before.

Rey
08-01-2011, 11:28 PM
I don't think he's really talking about toughness or being physical.
Probably the most successful franchise of the current period, the Patriots,
has never been described as a physical team but nobody criticizes them for not being so, and neither do they criticize them for being a finesse team, which is what they probably are. But they win, so everyone just calls them winners.

The patriots are physical.

DocBar
08-01-2011, 11:31 PM
The patriots are physical.They are? I think they are probably the only team in the league that can do it all on any given Sunday. Out-physical them, they'll out finesse you and win. Take away the finesse, they'll out tough you and run the ball down your throat. The Pats have the luxury of the best damn HC in the business, by far.

MEGA SWATT
08-01-2011, 11:32 PM
Who cares what anyone thinks. Texans just need to win........:wadepalm:

80tothezone
08-02-2011, 02:53 AM
I talked about this with texanmike today all we need is the guy who steps up. It's not normally the same guy every week, but every week it needs to be somebody other than the stars. I expect dre and schaub and foster to bring it every week on O. But we also need Jones or daniels or dickerson to step up too. That is how you win, when ur stars are having a tough time because every one expects them and gameplans for them someone needs to take the load. The big question is who will that person be every week? Or will it be anyone. On D well in the past I would say mario and ryans and cushing but who knows now .... we need the every week stars and the unexpected guy that's it we need guys they never see coming.

HoustonFrog
08-02-2011, 08:31 AM
While true, Myers is the only player that probably would not prefer to play smash mouth drive them back football. I am not a big fan of the ZBS but it has been working.

The O should be even better with OD closer to 100%, Schaub's knowledge that Foster can also catch the ball, Tate to spell the other two & hopefully either Walter or JJ to have a better year.

The lighter Dline shut me up last two years as they were able to control the run pretty well & Phillips seems confident the 3-4 he utilizes can hold the scrimmage line while LBs clog the run & "disturb" the QB. IMO, the DBs should be better if only by having another year behind them. They were very young @ most positions. Manning and JJ? Bring it on!:thisbig:

Too add to my comments I think that people like Lombardi also see "soft" as a team who doesn't bring it to other teams. Most people here, if honest, know one of the Texans biggest downfalls is not showing up every week or for a minimal amount of quarters. They showed up probably 1 game last season..2 most and usually they were getting out hit until and played until they decided to play run and shoot. JMO

DBCooper
08-02-2011, 08:42 AM
The Texans have been soft. The Texans have been slow.

These are part of our problems. I hate seeing our team manhandled and out hustled.

The offense is better, but the defense has been putrid. I hope Wade brings a needed level of toughness.

And when we need 1 yard, I want 3!

TimeKiller
08-02-2011, 08:48 AM
Yeah right. Their losses stupefy me as much as they will anyone but I'm not going to make shit up about them. Winning heals all wounds I suppose but it's not like there aren't a few examples of PHYSICAL toughness, despite the lack of mental toughness. Because their techniques don't rely on brawn, power doesn't mean they aren't big, fast, stronger than an ox proffessional athletes. They lost and in obscene fashion. Soft? Nope. There were some years where it seemed like one thing went wrong and dominos would follow, those were soft teams. This team fights (literally) for every point on the board. Winners? No. Weak? Certainly not.

El Tejano
08-02-2011, 08:55 AM
Um...I think the Texans are plenty physical under Kubiak. I even had to sue them because I didn't like how we went full contact without pads sometimes.

Signed,

Jordan Black former OT that really sucked.

Blake
08-02-2011, 09:00 AM
"We're sitting here, Lombardi is a douche, and we're in here talking about practice?!"

El Tejano
08-02-2011, 09:24 AM
I don't know what Lombardi is looking at but I thought Eric Winston was plenty physical.

Signed,

Kyle Vanden Bosch

And let me add that Andre punked me pretty hard.

Signed,

Cortland Finnegan

IDEXAN
08-02-2011, 10:58 AM
Who's ever said the Colts were a physical team, or one of the greatest and most successful franchises of the leagues history, the 49ers. Show me where those great Montana/Rice San Fran teams were described as physical by anybody ?
Texans just gotta win, then Lombardi and ever one else will get off of their butts. Till they do, they are fair game for the critics.

Double Barrel
08-02-2011, 01:51 PM
And they won't. And that's fine. We're a finesse team. Perfectly fine.

It does not appear to be fine with fans that disagree with Lombardi. :winky:

Winning shuts up douche bags!

No, it doesn't. Dallas fans were louder than ever when they were consistently winning.

michaelm
08-02-2011, 01:53 PM
No, it doesn't. Dallas fans were louder than ever when they were consistently winning.


LOL, nice.

Must Spread Rep...

painekiller
08-02-2011, 01:54 PM
How many teams can you think of in the history of the NFL that had that kind of toughness ?


Those 70's Steeler teams , the Shula Dolphins and maybe the Gibbs coached Redskins. Other than that , I think you have to go back to the Lombardi coached Packers to find a team that had that identity over a period of multiple years. I'd almost throw the recent Ravens teams into that group.

The few other teams that put together multiple championships were more finesse teams .... Cowboys & 49ers twice , Patriots , Rams and even the Dolts of today even tho they have only won one title.

The Buddy Ryan Eagles a few years back was one of those teams, the Giants when LT was playing.

GP
08-02-2011, 02:02 PM
I only point out that Lombardi seems to have extra piss and vinegar when he starts talking about us. I mean, he transforms into an animated and rage-filled guy when he gets going on it.

It's like Steve Tasker when he calls our games. He can only praise us and what we're doing out there when we are solidly kicking someone's ass and it's apparent beyond the shadow of a doubt that we look golden out there from start to finish. But if not, he's dogging us and he's even finding things to rag on us about...things that are B.S.

He'll side with the refs when they make a bad call that goes against us. He'll say he disagrees with the ref when they make a call that benefits us. Only when he knows his bias would truly be revealed does he tone it down and call it fairly.

Paul MaGuire, back when he covered Oilers games on NBC, did that same shit all the time too. I dreaded MaGuire's pre-game commentary when he'd be up in the booth while the Oilers and their opponents were prepping for opening kickoff. He would just rag out the Oilers and find ticky tack stuff to trash them out with. I was a teenager back then and saw it. I'm 35 now and I see it with some TV guys. It's there.

Not a coincidence that both those guys (Tasker and MaGuire) were Bills players at one time.

I just want to know what Lombardi's beef is with us. Did the Texans blow a game and lose him a lot of money? Did he want the GM job and got passed up for it? Is he tired of picking the Texans as a "sleeper" and so he's venting about being duped every year for three years?

He has an axe to grind. It's plain to see.

DocBar
08-02-2011, 02:05 PM
I only point out that Lombardi seems to have extra piss and vinegar when he starts talking about us. I mean, he transforms into an animated and rage-filled guy when he gets going on it.

It's like Steve Tasker when he calls our games. He can only praise us and what we're doing out there when we are solidly kicking someone's ass and it's apparent beyond the shadow of a doubt that we look golden out there from start to finish. But if not, he's dogging us and he's even finding things to rag on us about...things that are B.S.

He'll side with the refs when they make a bad call that goes against us. He'll say he disagrees with the ref when they make a call that benefits us. Only when he knows his bias would truly be revealed does he tone it down and call it fairly.

Paul MaGuire, back when he covered Oilers games on NBC, did that same shit all the time too. I dreaded MaGuire's pre-game commentary when he'd be up in the booth while the Oilers and their opponents were prepping for opening kickoff. He would just rag out the Oilers and find ticky tack stuff to trash them out with. I was a teenager back then and saw it. I'm 35 now and I see it with some TV guys. It's there.

Not a coincidence that both those guys (Tasker and MaGuire) were Bills players at one time.

I just want to know what Lombardi's beef is with us. Did the Texans blow a game and lose him a lot of money? Did he want the GM job and got passed up for it? Is he tired of picking the Texans as a "sleeper" and so he's venting about being duped every year for three years?

He has an axe to grind. It's plain to see.Don't forget Chris Collingsworth. I swear that guy is related to Richard Justice...

Texecutioner
08-02-2011, 02:06 PM
I don't even know if we were mentally soft. We were resilient as shit last year,

Yeah, we just went 6-10 and lost all of these games at the end in totally embarrassing ways. The word resilient has never been an adjective to describe the Texans in any way, shape, or form.

Too add to my comments I think that people like Lombardi also see "soft" as a team who doesn't bring it to other teams. Most people here, if honest, know one of the Texans biggest downfalls is not showing up every week or for a minimal amount of quarters. They showed up probably 1 game last season..2 most and usually they were getting out hit until and played until they decided to play run and shoot. JMO

Why is it that people get so upset at writers and analysts who aren't confident in a team that has been awful for 9 years straight? Guys like Lombardi who are writing this stuff have history on their side and they're not going to start having all of this confidence in the Texans until the Texans go out there and prove something and give them reasons to instead of being annual underachievers.

The Pencil Neck
08-02-2011, 02:10 PM
Yeah, we just went 6-10 and lost all of these games at the end in totally embarrassing ways. The word resilient has never been an adjective to describe the Texans in any way, shape, or form.

We fought our way back out of the holes we'd dug for ourselves several times last year. Even though we lost those games, I always felt like we were in them. If we weren't resilient, we would have thrown up our hands and not even been in those games.

Texecutioner
08-02-2011, 02:15 PM
We fought our way back out of the holes we'd dug for ourselves several times last year. Even though we lost those games, I always felt like we were in them. If we weren't resilient, we would have thrown up our hands and not even been in those games.

They went 6-10. That isn't resilient. Blowing games to the Jags on a Hail Marry pass and to the Jets isn't resilient. That's called choking horribly.

GP
08-02-2011, 02:15 PM
If anything, I think we can say that it's just something different every year for these guys.

One year we have a defense that ranks pretty well. Next year, it falls apart.

One year we have an offense that stays consistent from start to finish, and the next year they get down 21-0 by halftime before they decide to sustain drives AND score TDs on them.

The law of averages says that at some point, everything has to come together.

Texecutioner
08-02-2011, 02:20 PM
The law of averages says that at some point, everything has to come together.

Possibly. But until that happens beat writers aren't going to be going out on the limb to say all these great things when the Texans have been coached by a failed regime going on 5 years now. I don't understand why fans get so pissy about this before every season starts completely failing to remember at the end of the season that the beat writers or analysts that predicted this stuff ended up being correct at the end of the year. When the Texans do start winning, then they'll get better predictions and analysis from Football analysts. And they have to do it consistently as well. Even if the Texans make the post season next year, there will still be writers saying it was an abberation or that they were one year wonders. Until they show that they are a team that can win consistently, there will be many doubters. I don't see fans in here getting all chippy about football analysts who are doubting the Detroit Lions every off season.

The Pencil Neck
08-02-2011, 02:21 PM
They went 6-10. That isn't resilient. Blowing games to the Jags on a Hail Marry pass and to the Jets isn't resilient. That's called choking horribly.

Choking horribly isn't a sign of a lack of resilience.

A lack of resilience is getting depressed and giving up and getting blown out in game after game.

Choking and record doesn't have anything to do with resilience.

Texecutioner
08-02-2011, 02:31 PM
Choking horribly isn't a sign of a lack of resilience.

A lack of resilience is getting depressed and giving up and getting blown out in game after game.

Choking and record doesn't have anything to do with resilience.

If they were resilient they would have found ways to win games and came out on top instead of losing them consistently even when they had leads or were in position to close out a game. Failing consistently at that isn't being resilient. It's choking. Agree to disagree.

Texan_Bill
08-02-2011, 02:43 PM
LOL, nice.

Must Spread Rep...

Got 'em for both of us!

DocBar
08-02-2011, 02:44 PM
It's been said several thousand times on here, but one more time won't hurt anything. Start winning and most of the complaining will go away. It's just amazing how much changes when you can string together some W's, especially for more than one season.

Texan_Bill
08-02-2011, 02:47 PM
Lombardi is a Douche. Being a douche doesn't preclude someone from being right!

HOU-TEX
08-02-2011, 03:05 PM
It's been said several thousand times on here, but one more time won't hurt anything. Start winning and most of the complaining will go away. It's just amazing how much changes when you can string together some W's, especially for more than one season.

Agreed!

Lombardi is a Douche. Being a douche doesn't preclude someone from being right!

And, yes

Double Barrel
08-02-2011, 04:03 PM
I just want to know what Lombardi's beef is with us. Did the Texans blow a game and lose him a lot of money? Did he want the GM job and got passed up for it? Is he tired of picking the Texans as a "sleeper" and so he's venting about being duped every year for three years?

He has an axe to grind. It's plain to see.

Maybe he feels the same way about the Texans that I do about Justin Bieber. Lots of hype, but in the end, just another crappy product that makes a lot of money through successful marketing strategies.

yeah, I just compared the Texans to Justin Bieber. Do something more than one winning season in a decade and maybe I'll elevate the team to Lady Gaga. Win a playoff game and become a real rock band.

Why is it that people get so upset at writers and analysts who aren't confident in a team that has been awful for 9 years straight? Guys like Lombardi who are writing this stuff have history on their side and they're not going to start having all of this confidence in the Texans until the Texans go out there and prove something and give them reasons to instead of being annual underachievers.

Being a fan of a team is a lot like blind nationalism. You can gripe about your team and country, but as soon as someone else does it, circle the wagons! This Lombardi thread and the Putin thread in the NSZ attest to this fact.

False Start
08-03-2011, 01:31 PM
Eric Winston on Lombardi's comment via TC. (http://storify.com/stephstradley/texans-rt-eric-winston-on-nfl-networks-michael-lom?awesm=sfy.co_EHx&utm_campaign=stephstradley&utm_medium=sfy.co-twitter&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_content=storify-pingback)

"I know this, you
don't luck into 1,660. You don't luck into 2,000 yards rushing as a team
so you can call it whatever you want, you can call it finesse, you can
call it whatever but, I'll take those yards, I'll take those touchdowns
and I"ll take that production so Mike Lombardi can call it whatever he
wants. He can come out here; I'"ve never seen him at practice before so,
he might have a different take on it if he's not 2000 miles away
commenting on something he"s never seen before.

GP
08-03-2011, 03:25 PM
He can come out here; I'"ve never seen him at practice before so,
he might have a different take on it if he's not 2000 miles away
commenting on something he"s never seen before. - Winston

Snap.

Double Barrel
08-03-2011, 03:38 PM
"I know this, you don't luck into 1,660. You don't luck into 2,000 yards rushing as a team so you can call it whatever you want, you can call it finesse, you can call it whatever but, I'll take those yards, I'll take those touchdowns and I"ll take that production so Mike Lombardi can call it whatever he wants. He can come out here; I'"ve never seen him at practice before so, he might have a different take on it if he's not 2000 miles away commenting on something he"s never seen before.

But your team still ended up 6-10. :thinking: scoreboard = the only stat that really matters...

michaelm
08-03-2011, 03:42 PM
But your team still ended up 6-10. :thinking: scoreboard = the only stat that really matters...

Agreed, but that doesn't necessarily equate to softness.

GP
08-03-2011, 03:57 PM
But your team still ended up 6-10. :thinking: scoreboard = the only stat that really matters...

Two things:

1. The defense was so Oy! that it's got to enter the equation on this topic.

2. The offense, IMO, has been more run-oriented since our new o-coord has arrived. Couple that with Arian's emergence, and the lack of dynamic pass playcalling due to Shanahan Jr. leaving, and our offense was prone to stutter and sputter out of the gate too much.

Those two things, IMO, swerve into one another. When you have a defense getting burned up to the tune of 21-0 by halftime...and your offense is less dynamic in the area of what I considered MORE creative pass playcalling when we had Shanny Jr. here, you have the makings of "scoreboard" type situations.

Facts run both ways, unfortunately. We did not win the games we should have. But we produced massive stats that Winston refers to in his retort to Lombardi. Some teams are pure grinders, and some teams are finesse, and some teams flip the switch back and forth.

Vickers will go a long way to infusing a more shark-like attitude on our offense. The Joseph/Manning combo will stabilize the defense and give the LBs and DL a better chance at success and raise everyone's confidence level.

Pretty much saying I am making the Kool Aid. Hot Kool Aid, that is. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwTsZHGQ6FE)

I made this. For you!!!

False Start
08-03-2011, 04:02 PM
Video (http://youtu.be/1JVoYk5hmbU), of Caveman's comments.

nero THE zero
08-03-2011, 05:11 PM
But your team still ended up 6-10. :thinking: scoreboard = the only stat that really matters...

That's a red herring.

The topic's about whether the Texans are "soft" or not. Not how many games they won.

I'm glad Winston came out about this. Soft (and finesse) has become code for non-power running teams. Just because a team runs zone or spreads it out 4-wide doesn't mean they're not tough and certainly doesn't mean they're not capable of being great (see NE and IND). Conversely, just because a team likes to employ a power running scheme doesn't mean they are superior (see CLE).

The Texans sucked last year because their defense sucked and couldn't cover anyone. Not because they were "soft."

HJam72
08-03-2011, 05:24 PM
The Texans sucked last year because our secondary included a rookie, a couple of nobodies, and Bernard Pollard. So, effectively, Lombardi is calling the Texans soft because we had Bernard Pollard. It's almost like calling Bernard Pollard soft. Yeah, say it to his face...

Way I see it, we're good if we can just keep KJ on his feet... :foottap:

steelbtexan
08-03-2011, 06:00 PM
The Texans have been soft. The Texans have been slow.

These are part of our problems. I hate seeing our team manhandled and out hustled.

The offense is better, but the defense has been putrid. I hope Wade brings a needed level of toughness.

And when we need 1 yard, I want 3!

The truth hurts,

Lombardi is right and Ryan even confirmed what Lombardi said. texan fans the truth is Gary runs his team with a country club atmosphere. It's up to the Texans to prove the naysayers like Lombardi/Ryan wrong.

Maybe this will be the yr of put up or shut up for Rick/Gary and the kids.

steelbtexan
08-03-2011, 06:08 PM
[QUOTE=nero THE zero;1742865]That's a red herring.

The topic's about whether the Texans are "soft" or not. Not how many games they won.

I'm glad Winston came out about this. Soft (and finesse) has become code for non-power running teams. Just because a team runs zone or spreads it out 4-wide doesn't mean they're not tough and certainly doesn't mean they're not capable of being great (see NE and IND). Conversely, just because a team likes to employ a power running scheme doesn't mean they are superior (see CLE).

Funny how the Physical teams like the Jets, Pittsburgh, Giants, Titans and to a lessr degree Jags seem to regularly kick Garys teams butts and most of the time the scores against non division physical teams isn't even close.

Double Barrel
08-03-2011, 06:17 PM
Agreed, but that doesn't necessarily equate to softness.

I agree. But, Winston got butthurt about some commentator's analysis, and getting butthurt makes him look soft. :winky:

He validates Lombardi by acknowledging his comments. Winston should be a pro and ignore the peanut gallery, but instead wants to play Twitter wars because he's positioning himself to be a part of that peanut gang when football is over. One day he will be the one making comments about teams that he has not visited.

We did not win the games we should have.

I disagree.

Should of, could of, would of...

We won the 6 games that we should have because we won 6 games. I do not recall any stats in the NFL that "should have" is a part of. That kind of statement is grasping for straws from a desperate fanbase trying to validate it's perpetual mediocre franchise.

I certainly hope that changes this year, but I'm not going to count the wins before they play the games.

That's a red herring.

The topic's about whether the Texans are "soft" or not. Not how many games they won.


A red herring is Winston throwing up a bunch of individual stats to deflect comments from an analyst talking about a team.

Wins and losses do matter. Show me the last Super Bowl champion that was considered "soft".

I'm just pointing out the old mantra that stats are for losers to celebrate, because the scoreboard is the only real stat that matters in the end. Scoreboard is for winners, which is why Winston did not bring it up. I have no doubt that if this was a 10+ wins team, Winston would have used that information in a heartbeat.

As far as being soft, this team dominates nobody and imposes it's will on nothing. That is a sign of a soft team, regardless of individual stats.

For clarification, we have many individual players that are not soft, and Winston is probably one of them (as well as many others). However, as a team, they have not been capable of being considered hardasses until they can win in spite of themselves.

TEXANRED
08-03-2011, 06:23 PM
I can't get mad at Lombardi and to be honest I can't disagree with him either. When the Texans do something and start proving these guys wrong is when people will start singing our praises.

4-12
5-11
7-9
2-14
6-10
8-8
8-8
9-7
6-10

Franchise record: 55-89

No respect is earned and no respect shall be given.

GP
08-03-2011, 06:25 PM
Funny how the Physical teams like the Jets, Pittsburgh, Giants, Titans and to a lessr degree Jags seem to regularly kick Garys teams butts and most of the time the scores against non division physical teams isn't even close.

What? I don't think so.

Jets, Pitt, Giants all had (key word "had") better players than we had.

We were on what I consider to be "equal footing" as teams like Jax and Tenn.

Not anymore.

With a competent secondary that has appeared out of thin air, cutting ties with Amobi Okoye and drafting JJ Watt who appears to be a real football geek and strong as an Ox (and already impressing coaches, which I never heard that about Amobi within his first week of camp), and a better d-coord to lead them, and lastly by filling in the FB spot with a true FB who has a proven track record, we're not on equal footing with Jax/Tenn and we're easily approaching talent level of the better teams out there.

All that has to happen is for Gary and Wade to handle their respective businesses out there.

All you do is degrade this team. And if GP is saying that, it means it's gotten bad with ya' bro. It's a new day, a new dawn. This time, there's no phony street free agents filling out our secondary. It's 2 legit now. And because it is legit, you must quit. Come on, desperado. Why don't you come to your senses? Been out ridin' fences. Open the gate. It may be rainin', but there's a rainbow above you, you better let somebody love you. Let somebody love you! Better let somebody love you, before it's tooo-ooo-ooooo laaaaate.

Dutchrudder
08-03-2011, 06:45 PM
So can anyone tell me what other teams would be considered 'finesse'? Like the Super Bowl winning 2006 Colts? Or the 2010 Saints? How about the 3 time Super Bowl champ Patriots? I don't see a lot of power running from any of them.

GP
08-03-2011, 06:56 PM
So can anyone tell me what other teams would be considered 'finesse'? Like the Super Bowl winning 2006 Colts? Or the 2010 Saints? How about the 3 time Super Bowl champ Patriots? I don't see a lot of power running from any of them.

You see great players coming together with great coaching. I look back on the Tampa Bay and the Ravens wins at the SB, and I don't see either finesse nor strength--I see lunch pail, consistently resilient teams right there.

Colts are not brutes. They finesses the hell out of opponents.

I wish he had a way to really measure finesse vs. strength. But we don't. Yet it's being used as if it's the Gospel Truth.

Our problem has been (was, actually) poor talent and poor coaching (d-coordinator side of the ball, mostly). It came together in a perfect turd storm for us. All of us knew, in about week 3 or 4 that 2010 was going to be rough.

I think the defense, overall, was so horrible that it was a cloud over the whole team. I really do. That was a lot of pressure to perform that was placed upon the offense in 2010. The idea that you can score 28 or 35 points, as an offense, and still probably lose the game? Damn.

I think maybe Bob heard an earful from lots of people who were tired of the status quo on defense. Because this is one helluva' drastic turnaround from the time Wade Phillips was hired until just a few months later. Things got "crazy" and Bob said "we won't go crazy."

gary
08-03-2011, 07:09 PM
I can't get mad at Lombardi and to be honest I can't disagree with him either. When the Texans do something and start proving these guys wrong is when people will start singing our praises.

4-12
5-11
7-9
2-14
6-10
8-8
8-8
9-7
6-10

Franchise record: 55-89

No respect is earned and no respect shall be given.I know there has yet to play a full season of winning football but as of right now we do stink. Hopefully that changes though.

TheDream34
08-03-2011, 07:15 PM
While i despise Michael Lombardi, he does have a point, this team just lacks toughness. Do people really expect this team to show the toughness to win in tough arenas in Pittsburgh or new england or in indy because i dont

SAMURAITEXAN
08-03-2011, 07:29 PM
The media including Lamebardi will stop commenting like this when we start winning and get to the playoffs. Just let them say whatever they want. Once we start to win, they will be on our bandwagon for sure.

Go Texans!!!

DocBar
08-03-2011, 07:41 PM
While i despise Michael Lombardi, he does have a point, this team just lacks toughness. Do people really expect this team to show the toughness to win in tough arenas in Pittsburgh or new england or in indy because i dontI think the Texans have shown toughness. They haven't shown the ability to put their foot on the throat of an opponent and absolutely crush them very often. Two different things imo.

thunderkyss
08-03-2011, 07:41 PM
The Texans knocked people in the face...just couldn't stop a soul. I think there's a difference.

I think this is the most accurate statement made so far (other than mine of course).

The Texans were in a lot of fights last season, they just couldn't stay in those fights, see them to the finish.

The Texans are going to have to know when to throw that punch, when to duck, and make it to the twelfth round.

thunderkyss
08-03-2011, 07:44 PM
While true, Myers is the only player that probably would not prefer to play smash mouth drive them back football. I am not a big fan of the ZBS but it has been working.
:thisbig:

Watch the man play. In this system it is his job to go hunting, find a LB/DB & blow him up.

He really does a good job of shedding the NT to the guards as well.

It would be stupid suicide for him to go one on one with a NT.

thunderkyss
08-03-2011, 07:46 PM
You have to be tough to play in the league. What this team is missing are the true blue collar workhorse type of players that just want to be out there bleeding and knocking the piss out of people. Wade drafted 3 of them this year in Watt, Reed and Keo. We have Cushing and Barwin that are like that. We need the hard nosed Detroit and New Jersey type of guys that eat a bowl of nails every morning for breakfast. That's the defense I like. That's the kind of O-line I like.

I'll take a handful of Texans who grew up wrestling longhorns.

DocBar
08-03-2011, 07:47 PM
Watch the man play. In this system it is his job to go hunting, find a LB/DB & blow him up.

He really does a good job of shedding the NT to the guards as well.

It would be stupid suicide for him to go one on one with a NT.He's a bit of a liability in pass pro, but you can't always have the best of both worlds. He does pretty good in ZBS and our whole approach is a balanced attack that keeps the D guessing. I'm OK with our entire OL. Continuity is a huge factor with that group and I believe this will be about 3 years with 4 of the 5 playing together.

thunderkyss
08-03-2011, 07:48 PM
"We're sitting here, Lombardi is a douche, and we're in here talking about practice?!"

Practice????!

thunderkyss
08-03-2011, 07:54 PM
I can't get mad at Lombardi and to be honest I can't disagree with him either. When the Texans do something and start proving these guys wrong is when people will start singing our praises.

4-12
5-11
7-9
2-14
6-10
8-8
8-8
9-7
6-10

Franchise record: 55-89

No respect is earned and no respect shall be given.

Is Mike Tyson soft?

He's a loser, but he ain't soft. The two words are not synonymous.

Lucky
08-03-2011, 07:54 PM
Should of, could of, would of...

We won the 6 games that we should have because we won 6 games. I do not recall any stats in the NFL that "should have" is a part of. That kind of statement is grasping for straws from a desperate fanbase trying to validate it's perpetual mediocre franchise.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Double Barrel again
When I get back from the gym, I'll start slinging some rep around.

Rey
08-03-2011, 07:55 PM
I agree. But, Winston got butthurt about some commentator's analysis, and getting butthurt makes him look soft. :winky:

He validates Lombardi by acknowledging his comments. Winston should be a pro and ignore the peanut gallery, but instead wants to play Twitter wars because he's positioning himself to be a part of that peanut gang when football is over. One day he will be the one making comments about teams that he has not visited.



I disagree.

Should of, could of, would of...

We won the 6 games that we should have because we won 6 games. I do not recall any stats in the NFL that "should have" is a part of. That kind of statement is grasping for straws from a desperate fanbase trying to validate it's perpetual mediocre franchise.

I certainly hope that changes this year, but I'm not going to count the wins before they play the games.



A red herring is Winston throwing up a bunch of individual stats to deflect comments from an analyst talking about a team.

Wins and losses do matter. Show me the last Super Bowl champion that was considered "soft".

I'm just pointing out the old mantra that stats are for losers to celebrate, because the scoreboard is the only real stat that matters in the end. Scoreboard is for winners, which is why Winston did not bring it up. I have no doubt that if this was a 10+ wins team, Winston would have used that information in a heartbeat.

As far as being soft, this team dominates nobody and imposes it's will on nothing. That is a sign of a soft team, regardless of individual stats.

For clarification, we have many individual players that are not soft, and Winston is probably one of them (as well as many others). However, as a team, they have not been capable of being considered hardasses until they can win in spite of themselves.

Excellent post.

Whether or not the texans are soft doesn't matter. They have sucked for most of their existence. When you have been consistently bad people are going to throw out all kinds of reasons for the suckage.

I can't believe that Winston actually had a retort.

It's like if someone says you are overweight because you eat too much junk, and you say "come watch me eat".

Unless you have a thyroid problem or some other health issue then you need to deal with what YOU can do and not worry about someone else's opinion on why you are the way you are.

Doesn't matter if the texans are soft, stupid or cheap. What ever the problem is they need to fix it this season. Then ppl will shut up and stop giving their opinion on why you suck.

thunderkyss
08-03-2011, 07:57 PM
He's a bit of a liability in pass pro, but you can't always have the best of both worlds. He does pretty good in ZBS and our whole approach is a balanced attack that keeps the D guessing. I'm OK with our entire OL. Continuity is a huge factor with that group and I believe this will be about 3 years with 4 of the 5 playing together.

He's about as good as Jeff Saturday in Pass Pro.... Our problem in Pass Pro for the last two years, (excluding the Kris Jenkin's rag toos) has not been the man in the middle. It's been those two GODs we put on the wings.

DocBar
08-03-2011, 07:59 PM
I agree. But, Winston got butthurt about some commentator's analysis, and getting butthurt makes him look soft. :winky:

He validates Lombardi by acknowledging his comments. Winston should be a pro and ignore the peanut gallery, but instead wants to play Twitter wars because he's positioning himself to be a part of that peanut gang when football is over. One day he will be the one making comments about teams that he has not visited.



I disagree.

Should of, could of, would of...

We won the 6 games that we should have because we won 6 games. I do not recall any stats in the NFL that "should have" is a part of. That kind of statement is grasping for straws from a desperate fanbase trying to validate it's perpetual mediocre franchise.

I certainly hope that changes this year, but I'm not going to count the wins before they play the games.



A red herring is Winston throwing up a bunch of individual stats to deflect comments from an analyst talking about a team.

Wins and losses do matter. Show me the last Super Bowl champion that was considered "soft".

I'm just pointing out the old mantra that stats are for losers to celebrate, because the scoreboard is the only real stat that matters in the end. Scoreboard is for winners, which is why Winston did not bring it up. I have no doubt that if this was a 10+ wins team, Winston would have used that information in a heartbeat.

As far as being soft, this team dominates nobody and imposes it's will on nothing. That is a sign of a soft team, regardless of individual stats.

For clarification, we have many individual players that are not soft, and Winston is probably one of them (as well as many others). However, as a team, they have not been capable of being considered hardasses until they can win in spite of themselves.The best thing Winston could've said is, "who?" or "HEY!!! That's what we call our tackling dummy!!"

PhilpW
08-03-2011, 08:15 PM
Soft is stopping a team on first and second downs, then dropping 7 into coverage to allow first downs. We've done this for years. Soft is playing teams close, no killer instinct. How many games have we won by 17 or more? Very damn few. I think Lombardi is a douche bag, but he'll be in line for the bandwagon when we start winning.

DocBar
08-03-2011, 08:17 PM
Soft is stopping a team on first and second downs, then dropping 7 into coverage to allow first downs. We've done this for years. Soft is playing teams close, no killer instinct. How many games have we won by 17 or more? Very damn few. I think Lombardi is a douche bag, but he'll be in line for the bandwagon when we start winning.
Every single one of them will be. And most of them will be angling for an "I told ya so."

TEXANRED
08-04-2011, 08:07 AM
Is Mike Tyson soft?

He's a loser, but he ain't soft. The two words are not synonymous.

Mike Tyson has 50 wins 44 knock outs and 6 losses. That's not even close to being the same. Mike Tyson was a champion, was feared, was Iron Mike. What have the Texans ever been but the door mat for the AFC South?

nero THE zero
08-04-2011, 09:09 AM
Wins and losses do matter. Show me the last Super Bowl champion that was considered "soft".

That's my point. Soft is finesse. When you're winning, you're "finesse" (i.e. Colts and Pats). When you're losing, you're "soft."

You can win the Steeler way and you can win the Colt way. It makes no difference. You do not have to be "tough" to win a Super Bowl.

We lose because we're not good enough, not because we're not tough enough.

DocBar
08-04-2011, 09:10 AM
If Lombardi found a loaded :hobie:, he'd blow his brains out.

HTown2ATX
08-04-2011, 11:33 AM
Vandy from 610 is doing a segment with Major Tool aka Lombardi today....hoping he refutes some of this.

Also, they are interviewing OD as I type on 610 asking him about it. Clearly the offense is pissed about these comments.....I doubt the defense could say much.

FWIW

Double Barrel
08-04-2011, 12:27 PM
The media including Lamebardi will stop commenting like this when we start winning and get to the playoffs. Just let them say whatever they want. Once we start to win, they will be on our bandwagon for sure.

Go Texans!!!

yep. Winning changes everything, especially perception.

That is what this is all about at the end of the day. Lombardi see the Texans hyped every pre-season as the up-and-coming team, but they never are that team in the end. So his analysis does not surprise me. It's his perception.

I think the Texans have shown toughness. They haven't shown the ability to put their foot on the throat of an opponent and absolutely crush them very often. Two different things imo.

QFT. This is why it's hard to defend the team against Lombardi's analysis. We've got some tough individuals, have the ability to play tough at times, but overall, they lack the so-called "killer instinct" as a team to dominate good teams.

That's my point. Soft is finesse. When you're winning, you're "finesse" (i.e. Colts and Pats). When you're losing, you're "soft."

You can win the Steeler way and you can win the Colt way. It makes no difference. You do not have to be "tough" to win a Super Bowl.

We lose because we're not good enough, not because we're not tough enough.

I do not disagree with you. "Soft" is subjective. Winning is the fine line between being "soft" and being "finesse". It is what it is, and until this team can prove itself with consistent success, they will continue to be perceived by national analysts as soft. But consistently winning by beating good teams is where the gut check comes in, where the heart of this team has to become warrior and refuse to lose. I have not seen that fighting spirit in this team (individual players, yes, but not in the team).

Hey, I'm a Texans fan and I don't like the label, either. But I'm not a happy, shiny fan that is going to wear blinders and swim in koolaide. I cannot fault Lombardi for his perspective, simply because it's an understandable position to take when looking at a perpetually mediocre franchise.

Hopefully Lombardi has to eat his words by the end of the season. Only time will tell. The proof will be on the field in the end, either way.

beerlover
08-04-2011, 01:07 PM
takes one to know one http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0708/3739/lombardi-king_crop_340x234.jpg

The Pencil Neck
08-04-2011, 01:17 PM
On the NFLN, Lombardi was just talking about SHANE Cody and DEMARCO Ryans.

I didn't necessarily disagree with anything he said (he just reiterated most of our fears) but at least get the names right.

Playoffs
08-04-2011, 01:21 PM
ML on NFLN spewing now that Mario will be taken out of the game by offenses.

McGinest, Davis agreeing and adding Vickers doesn't make up for Leach. Insinuating Texans can't convert 3rd or 4th and 1.

Eric Winston took homage to my comments... -- errr, that would be umbrage, Mike.

ML whining about Texans fans attacking him on Twitter. :crying:

Allstar
08-04-2011, 01:22 PM
On the NFLN, Lombardi was just talking about SHANE Cody and DEMARCO Ryans.

I didn't necessarily disagree with anything he said (he just reiterated most of our fears) but at least get the names right.

He said Cushing has lost weight, which is the first I've heard about it. Also he and McGuinest were talking about how we have no outside LBs. No mention of Reed or Barwin. He was treating Wade's 3-4 like it was any other 3-4, so naturally he thought that Cody was a poor fit at NT.

The Pencil Neck
08-04-2011, 01:25 PM
He said Cushing has lost weight, which is the first I've heard about it. Also he and McGuinest were talking about how we have no outside LBs. No mention of Reed or Barwin. He was treating Wade's 3-4 like it was any other 3-4, so naturally he thought that Cody was a poor fit at NT.

Someone had posted a pic of Cush and asked if he looked smaller. If he's had his knee worked on and wasn't able to work out hard, I'm not surprised if he's smaller. And that worries me a bit.

And, yeah. Wade knows what Wade wants to do. He's said from the very beginning that he wants his NT penetrating and not being a space eater so it's not prototypical. But most of us have been worried about the center of this defense with that small NT. BUT, what he said about having bigger DE's shading inside the tackles... Smith and Watt could be great for that.

So... we'll see.

False Start
08-04-2011, 01:35 PM
ML on NFLN spewing now that Mario will be taken out of the game by offenses.

Wilcots, Davis agreeing and adding Vickers doesn't make up for Leach. Insinuating Texans can't convert 3rd or 4th and 1.

Eric Winston took homage to my comments... -- errr, that would be umbrage, Mike.

ML whining about Texans fans attacking him on Twitter. :crying:


The guy is a dumb ass, I have never liked him. I'm not just saying this because of his recent comments either.

DX-TEX
08-04-2011, 01:44 PM
@KaraHendersonKara Henderson


Thx to @michaelombardi I'm now in the crosshairs after he called the Texans soft! ;) Also here to report camp being held on surface of sun.




1 hour agovia Twitter for iPhone

NFLN reporters are soft. Cant deal with our heat. Wimps.

C Madd
08-04-2011, 01:50 PM
takes one to know one http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0708/3739/lombardi-king_crop_340x234.jpg

Would you like an apple pie with that?

Playoffs
08-04-2011, 01:58 PM
Links for you to offer your input:

http://twitter.com/#!/michaelombardi

http://twitter.com/#!/KaraHenderson

:pissed:

False Start
08-04-2011, 02:09 PM
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/J4103V/staysoft1.jpg



http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/J4103V/boo-this-man.gif

GP
08-04-2011, 02:22 PM
On the NFLN, Lombardi was just talking about SHANE Cody and DEMARCO Ryans.

I didn't necessarily disagree with anything he said (he just reiterated most of our fears) but at least get the names right.

This is the thing: Those guys want to act like they know soooo much about us, yet they can't get the names right.

When we kick ass, they'll all be reversing their opinion and acting like they knew all along that we were good enough. They had to do it with the whole Mario/Bush/VY ordeal, they'll have to do it again with this new crop of free agents we just harvested.

Have those guys not watched film on Vickers? I suppose they saw we lost a one-time Pro Bowl fullback (Leach) and so they figure there's no way to replace what we had before.

They're just lazy. I do more work on this board, researching out film and analysis of players than they do. They just show up in a suit, repeat what's written for them, giggle and talk about their former playing days, and stare at the camera waiting to hear "We're clear!" so they can go spend the other 23 hours of their day doing whatever they want to.

They're also afraid to have dissenting opinions with one another. Whatever one guy says, they all echo/parrot it and agree with it, to make it look like they all did their homework on a guy or a situation with a team.

Someone should do a skit where one analyst says something bizarre and untrue, and the rest of the guys on set are just nodding and "Umm hmm'ing" everything the one idi0t says. That's about what goes on with these NFL analysis shows.

My favorite is how they rag out a team one week, then that Sunday the ragged out team wins...and they're on set the following Monday or Tuesday just raving and applauding what the team did. Reactionary hacks.

A few guys do their homework (Jaws does, as does Baldinger). Most are just hacks.

DX-TEX
08-04-2011, 02:28 PM
Best way to shut him up: Win. Clear, dominating wins.

When they do this and they are begging for interviews just say no and smile.

GP
08-04-2011, 02:38 PM
Best way to shut him up: Win. Clear, dominating wins.

When they do this and they are begging for interviews just say no and smile.

See, this is where I get pissed off.

The so-called "analysts" are always in a win-win. You know damn well they can sit there from the peanut gallery, like us fans, and say whatever in the hell they want to...and then if they're wrong, they know they STILL get the interview with the player(s) because your owner is going to damn sure make sure your team gets air time in a positive manner.

No way around it. They love to tear down players or teams, and then they love to build them back up again. See: Media treatment, before & after, with Mike Vick. Hypocrites. They play both sides of the fence. It's just inherent to their "profession." They want you to think that they are right 100% of the time, so you gotta' tune in to get the scoop on everything.

I'm waiting for the first ever sports show where the analysts really cover the teams and players from a more unbiased and objective standpoint each week. Right now, they know their peeps up in the northeast want to hear great things about Jets/Pats/Giants and they want to conversely hear about those hayseed hicks down in Texas and how awful they are.

DocBar
08-04-2011, 02:42 PM
See, this is where I get pissed off.

The so-called "analysts" are always in a win-win. You know damn well they can sit there from the peanut gallery, like us fans, and say whatever in the hell they want to...and then if they're wrong, they know they STILL get the interview with the player(s) because your owner is going to damn sure make sure your team gets air time in a positive manner.

No way around it. They love to tear down players or teams, and then they love to build them back up again. See: Media treatment, before & after, with Mike Vick. Hypocrites. They play both sides of the fence. It's just inherent to their "profession." They want you to think that they are right 100% of the time, so you gotta' tune in to get the scoop on everything.

I'm waiting for the first ever sports show where the analysts really cover the teams and players from a more unbiased and objective standpoint each week. Right now, they know their peeps up in the northeast want to hear great things about Jets/Pats/Giants and they want to conversely hear about those hayseed hicks down in Texas and how awful they are.This ain't ever gonna happen. All these guys care about are ratings and they'll say whatever they think will increase those ratings.

ChampionTexan
08-04-2011, 02:49 PM
Saw Lombardi on NFLN just now, and one of the things he brought up was that when New Orleans won the Super Bowl, they went thru the previous off-season emphasizing the fact that they had to get tougher at every opportunity. Had never heard that before, but fine - I'll take his word for it.

Here's my problem - if the Texans were talking up getting tougher, and it dominated the image they were trying to put forth to the press and public, they'd be getting ridiculed by many for attempting to address a problem with lip-service and "feel good" ways of doing things. Anybody remember before the 2008 season when they had the message "Protect the ball" emblazoned on the back of the offense's practice shorts, and "Take the ball away" on the defense? We finished 29th in turnover margin that year.

I don't want rah, rah lip service, or anything else that they could possibly do in the off-season/pre-season. I want 10 or more wins, and a playoff run. Give me that, and I don't care if your pre-season scrimmages are against teams from the Lingerie Football League. Don't give me that, and I don't care if your pregame meal consists of broken glass and live badgers.

But because there's nothing they could possibly do right now to show me what I want to see, I'm also going to try to refrain from being a whining, bitching a-hole. To paraphrase Jim Calhoun, Just go play some games and come back and see me.

DocBar
08-04-2011, 02:53 PM
Saw Lombardi on NFLN just now, and one of the things he brought up was that when New Orleans won the Super Bowl, they went thru the previous off-season emphasizing the fact that they had to get tougher at every opportunity. Had never heard that before, but fine - I'll take his word for it.

Here's my problem - if the Texans were talking up getting tougher, and it dominated the image they were trying to put forth to the press and public, they'd be getting ridiculed by many for attempting to address a problem with lip-service and "feel good" ways of doing things. Anybody remember before the 2008 season when they had the message "Protect the ball" emblazoned on the back of the offense's practice shorts, and "Take the ball away" on the defense? We finished 29th in turnover margin that year.

I don't want rah, rah lip service, or anything else that they could possibly do in the off-season/pre-season. I want 10 or more wins, and a playoff run. Give me that, and I don't care if your pre-season scrimmages are against teams from the Lingerie Football League. Don't give me that, and I don't care if your pregame meal consists of broken glass and live badgers.

But because there's nothing they could possibly do right now to show me what I want to see, I'm also going to try to refrain from being a whining, bitching a-hole. To paraphrase Jim Calhoun, Just go play some games and come back and see me. You can't walk around and call yourself tough. If you're tough, others will say that for you. The rest of the team needs to take a long look at AJ, then try to be just like him. Ain't no way anyone's saying AJ ain't tough.

GP
08-04-2011, 03:02 PM
Saw Lombardi on NFLN just now, and one of the things he brought up was that when New Orleans won the Super Bowl, they went thru the previous off-season emphasizing the fact that they had to get tougher at every opportunity. Had never heard that before, but fine - I'll take his word for it.

Here's my problem - if the Texans were talking up getting tougher, and it dominated the image they were trying to put forth to the press and public, they'd be getting ridiculed by many for attempting to address a problem with lip-service and "feel good" ways of doing things. Anybody remember before the 2008 season when they had the message "Protect the ball" emblazoned on the back of the offense's practice shorts, and "Take the ball away" on the defense? We finished 29th in turnover margin that year.

I don't want rah, rah lip service, or anything else that they could possibly do in the off-season/pre-season. I want 10 or more wins, and a playoff run. Give me that, and I don't care if your pre-season scrimmages are against teams from the Lingerie Football League. Don't give me that, and I don't care if your pregame meal consists of broken glass and live badgers.

But because there's nothing they could possibly do right now to show me what I want to see, I'm also going to try to refrain from being a whining, bitching a-hole. To paraphrase Jim Calhoun, Just go play some games and come back and see me.

I agree with you.

That's what I am trying to say, as well: Guys like Lombardi say it...so it must be true! They're trying to find the silver bullet that kills the beast of suckitude for the Texans, and that silver bullet is not "toughness" but is rather Bob deciding to be a Big Boy and get down tot he business of building a REAL defense for a change.

You can't cure the illness by treating the symptoms. You gotta' remove the illness and the symptoms disappear. Anything else is just knocking apples off the apple tree and yelling at it to start producing oranges instead--The fruit a tree produces is based on what it's genetics are programmed to produce.

This tree has long been an "offense only" tree and the fruit has been "offense only" for the past four years. Hopefully, we're about to be making some defense fruit out there, too.

EllisUnit
08-04-2011, 03:06 PM
I agree with you.

That's what I am trying to say, as well: Guys like Lombardi say it...so it must be true! They're trying to find the silver bullet that kills the beast of suckitude for the Texans, and that silver bullet is not "toughness" but is rather Bob deciding to be a Big Boy and get down tot he business of building a REAL defense for a change.

You can't cure the illness by treating the symptoms. You gotta' remove the illness and the symptoms disappear. Anything else is just knocking apples off the apple tree and yelling at it to start producing oranges instead--The fruit a tree produces is based on what it's genetics are programmed to produce.

This tree has long been an "offense only" tree and the fruit has been "offense only" for the past four years. Hopefully, we're about to be making some defense fruit out there, too.



Agree, hell with a top 18-20 defense we could easily make the play-offs, now if it is a top 10-15 defense i know we will make the play-offs.

Playoffs
08-04-2011, 03:35 PM
They're also afraid to have dissenting opinions with one another. Whatever one guy says, they all echo/parrot it and agree with it, to make it look like they all did their homework on a guy or a situation with a team.
So true. They all sing the same unoriginal song for the most part.

I was watching that segment on the Texans waiting for some balance -- expected Charles Davis to have his own thoughts because he has in the past -- but he just parroted Lombardi. Shame.

steelbtexan
08-04-2011, 04:00 PM
What? I don't think so.

Jets, Pitt, Giants all had (key word "had") better players than we had.

We were on what I consider to be "equal footing" as teams like Jax and Tenn.

Not anymore.

With a competent secondary that has appeared out of thin air, cutting ties with Amobi Okoye and drafting JJ Watt who appears to be a real football geek and strong as an Ox (and already impressing coaches, which I never heard that about Amobi within his first week of camp), and a better d-coord to lead them, and lastly by filling in the FB spot with a true FB who has a proven track record, we're not on equal footing with Jax/Tenn and we're easily approaching talent level of the better teams out there.

All that has to happen is for Gary and Wade to handle their respective businesses out there.

All you do is degrade this team. And if GP is saying that, it means it's gotten bad with ya' bro. It's a new day, a new dawn. This time, there's no phony street free agents filling out our secondary. It's 2 legit now. And because it is legit, you must quit. Come on, desperado. Why don't you come to your senses? Been out ridin' fences. Open the gate. It may be rainin', but there's a rainbow above you, you better let somebody love you. Let somebody love you! Better let somebody love you, before it's tooo-ooo-ooooo laaaaate.

Great post

After a decade of disappointment and half a decade of Gary/Rick led disappointment color me jaded. Talk is cheap the Texans (BoBBY/Gary/Rick/Winston) need to prove it on the field. In 2009 the Texans had a top 15 defense angainst a cupcake schedule and still couldn't make the playoffs. I expect Garys kids to go about 7-9.9-7 even with a much improved defense. 9-7 should be good enough for another round of excuses as to why Rick/Gary get to keep their jobs. LOL

With that said I'm very excited to see how the Texans revamped defense does with a DC that knows what he's doing. Football season is upon us and I'm ready for the smell/experience of the Friday/Saturday/Sunday at the stadium. Be it high school, college,Reliant it sure is good to have football back again. Hopefully I'm wrong and the Texans can bring a winning brand of football to Houston this yr. It'seen along time in coming.

TEXANRED
08-04-2011, 06:39 PM
When we kick ass, they'll all be reversing their opinion and acting like they knew all along that we were good enough.

We have been saying this for 10 off-seasons now. By law of averages if you say it enough someday it will be true right?

The only media guy who even likes us is Jamie Dukes and he gets flamed on this bored for being a dumb ass. TTFWIW.

thunderkyss
08-04-2011, 06:55 PM
We have been saying this for 10 off-seasons now. By law of averages if you say it enough someday it will be true right?


That's what I've been going on.

Double Barrel
08-04-2011, 07:03 PM
Right now, they know their peeps up in the northeast want to hear great things about Jets/Pats/Giants and they want to conversely hear about those hayseed hicks down in Texas and how awful they are.

Or, maybe, just maybe, the Jets, Patriots, and Giants are all playoff teams, where as the Texans have one winning season in it's history.

As a Texans fan, I hate to hear it. But, as an NFL fan, I recognize it for what it is at the end of the day. Analysis that is reflective of each team's recent history.

It's certainly nothing to get upset about if national talking heads don't shoot rainbows out of their butts for our hometown team. I don't expect them to, and to be quite honest, I wouldn't respect their opinions if they put the Texans on a pedestal at this point.

The Texans need to earn respect, not have it handed to them because the fanbase is upset about perception.

thunderkyss
08-04-2011, 07:56 PM
Or, maybe, just maybe, the Jets, Patriots, and Giants are all playoff teams, where as the Texans have one winning season in it's history.


Hey!!

That's three non-losing seasons pal!!

:foottap:

steelbtexan
08-04-2011, 08:01 PM
See, this is where I get pissed off.

The so-called "analysts" are always in a win-win. You know damn well they can sit there from the peanut gallery, like us fans, and say whatever in the hell they want to...and then if they're wrong, they know they STILL get the interview with the player(s) because your owner is going to damn sure make sure your team gets air time in a positive manner.

No way around it. They love to tear down players or teams, and then they love to build them back up again. See: Media treatment, before & after, with Mike Vick. Hypocrites. They play both sides of the fence. It's just inherent to their "profession." They want you to think that they are right 100% of the time, so you gotta' tune in to get the scoop on everything.

I'm waiting for the first ever sports show where the analysts really cover the teams and players from a more unbiased and objective standpoint each week. Right now, they know their peeps up in the northeast want to hear great things about Jets/Pats/Giants and they want to conversely hear about those hayseed hicks down in Texas and how awful they are.

Ryan and Kirwin know their stuff. They are more x's and o's as well as explaining a GM's thoughts. They're on Sirius, Moving the Chains at 2 pm.

drs23
08-04-2011, 08:47 PM
We have been saying this for 10 off-seasons now. By law of averages if you say it enough someday it will be true right?

The only media guy who even likes us is Jamie Dukes and he gets flamed on this bored for being a dumb ass. TTFWIW.

I'm not sure I agree Red. Soloman Wilcots has been in our corner more times than not IIRC. He's been pretty outspoken in the Texans defense on more than one occasion in disagreeing with his co-hosts from what I recall.

DX-TEX
08-04-2011, 08:51 PM
I'm not sure I agree Red. Soloman Wilcots has been in our corner more times than not IIRC. He's been pretty outspoken in the Texans defense on more than one occasion in disagreeing with his co-hosts from what I recall.

I would add Warren Sapp to that list. Everytime I see him talking about us its usually positive.

drs23
08-04-2011, 09:05 PM
I would add Warren Sapp to that list. Everytime I see him talking about us its usually positive.

Agreed. Just can't wait until the team gives them ALL something positive to say because there's nothing negative to say.

We can all dream, huh? :)

GP
08-04-2011, 09:21 PM
Or, maybe, just maybe, the Jets, Patriots, and Giants are all playoff teams, where as the Texans have one winning season in it's history.

As a Texans fan, I hate to hear it. But, as an NFL fan, I recognize it for what it is at the end of the day. Analysis that is reflective of each team's recent history.

It's certainly nothing to get upset about if national talking heads don't shoot rainbows out of their butts for our hometown team. I don't expect them to, and to be quite honest, I wouldn't respect their opinions if they put the Texans on a pedestal at this point.

The Texans need to earn respect, not have it handed to them because the fanbase is upset about perception.

I don't think it's a deal of us not getting the respect we think we want/deserve.

My problem is the idea that all of our failings are due to a lack of toughness.

Which team is tough every Sunday for 16 reg season games? Not many, and maybe none at all. They each have moments where they puss out and can't find the inner resolve to overcome their own troubles and beat the other team. The mighty Ravens had Hillis run on their ass for 140 yards--Where was the Ravens' toughness that day? Poof! It must have just been bad luck???

I watched us out-tough the Packers at Lambeau on a frigid windy day. Schaub was a rock of Gibraltar that day. We out-toughed them. See? The Packers couldn't out-tough us in their own home against an on-the-road un-tough team who plays in a semi-dome. Whoops.

Our misfortunes are laid squarely upon an owner who JUST NOW found the inner resolve to hire a proven d-coord. And with a proven d-coord has come two VERY proven secondary players and a draft heavy on defense under the direction of a guy who knows defense when he sees it.

If we succeed, it will be based more on Bob's ability to suck it up and be a Big Boy than it will for our players.

DX-TEX
08-04-2011, 09:23 PM
Well said GP, well damn said.

Rep +1

TheMatrix31
08-04-2011, 09:48 PM
Right on the money. Sick of this "toughness" crap.

DocBar
08-04-2011, 09:55 PM
You want tough? Go to Sears and buy some Toughskins. :kitten:

GP
08-04-2011, 10:19 PM
You want tough? Go to Sears and buy some Toughskins. :kitten:

LOL. :lol:

ObsiWan
08-05-2011, 12:55 AM
You want tough? Go to Sears and buy some Toughskins. :kitten:
Problem solved.
/thread.
We've dedicated enough electrons to that boob.

beerlover
08-05-2011, 01:09 AM
Lombardi should have just said what people already know, good guys finish last :kubepalm:

m5kwatts
08-05-2011, 10:31 AM
Ryan and Kirwin know their stuff. They are more x's and o's as well as explaining a GM's thoughts. They're on Sirius, Moving the Chains at 2 pm.

Thats the best radio program out there right now. Both have great perspective, don't jump the gun, well-informed and know x's and o's well and make it interesting. They also don't let dumb callers run the show amuck with ignorance like the 790s 610s and 1560s of the world, those stations are desperate sluts for listeners. Sirius NFL doesn't have to be.

Kimmy
08-05-2011, 10:34 AM
Thats the best radio program out there right now. Both have great perspective, don't jump the gun, well-informed and know x's and o's well and make it interesting. They also don't let dumb callers run the show amuck with ignorance like the 790s 610s and 1560s of the world, those stations are desperate sluts for listeners. Sirius NFL doesn't have to be.

I completely agree. I listen to Sirius 88 non stop.

b0ng
08-05-2011, 10:59 AM
He at least replies to twitter comments (michael lombardi) so at least he's not a *****.

DX-TEX
08-05-2011, 11:21 AM
Lance Z interviewed him this morning. Anyone catch it?

Lance says they will post a Podcast on his blog later today.

False Start
08-05-2011, 11:39 AM
Lance Z interviewed him this morning. Anyone catch it?

Lance says they will post a Podcast on his blog later today.

I just missed it, should be interesting. :rake:

Double Barrel
08-05-2011, 11:39 AM
I don't think it's a deal of us not getting the respect we think we want/deserve.


Sure, it is. Fans would not be getting so butthurt about some talking head's opinions if they felt like the team was respected.

Remember my statement was a direct reply to your point: "want to hear great things about Jets/Pats/Giants". Great things can be said because 1) they have success in recent history, and 2) this translates to respect.

You went on to say "they want to conversely hear about those hayseed hicks down in Texas and how awful they are".

Don't strawman the argument and take my points out of context. You were upset because the Texans were being disrespected by an analyst.

So Lombardi is not behind the Texans. Does it really matter? It doesn't change anything in my mind and it certainly has no impact on my rooting for our team.

If we succeed, it will be based more on Bob's ability to suck it up and be a Big Boy than it will for our players.

Bob doesn't play the game. I'm not even sure what your post is trying to say, to be honest. idonno:

noxiousdog
08-05-2011, 11:39 AM
Lance Z interviewed him this morning. Anyone catch it?

Lance says they will post a Podcast on his blog later today.

I caught some until I couldn't listen any more.

The logic was this:
You can't win a super bowl if you're soft.
Ergo
The Texans are soft.

They tried to pin him down on what he meant, and it was basically their coaches aren't Parcells or Ryan, they have bad line play, and their offensive linemen are small. Well, duh.

Lombardi has always rubbed me the wrong way. If he's such a good talent evaluator, why isn't he still in the NFL? Even Casserly got a second chance. Just because you're opinionated and sound good on TV doesn't make you a good analyst.

This whole thing strikes me as ridiculous. If they win, they won't be soft. If they lose they'll be soft. It's weak and poor analysis.

False Start
08-05-2011, 11:47 AM
their offensive linemen are small.

That "small" O-Line is pretty damn good IMO, if a small line gives the team the leading rusher, I'll take it.

DX-TEX
08-05-2011, 11:48 AM
I caught some until I couldn't listen any more.

The logic was this:
You can't win a super bowl if you're soft.
Ergo
The Texans are soft.

They tried to pin him down on what he meant, and it was basically their coaches aren't Parcells or Ryan, they have bad line play, and their offensive linemen are small. Well, duh.

Lombardi has always rubbed me the wrong way. If he's such a good talent evaluator, why isn't he still in the NFL? Even Casserly got a second chance. Just because you're opinionated and sound good on TV doesn't make you a good analyst.

This whole thing strikes me as ridiculous. If they win, they won't be soft. If they lose they'll be soft. It's weak and poor analysis.

I really hope you got this wrong. That is his arguement? They only led Arian to 1600 yards rushing last season....:toropalm:

DocBar
08-05-2011, 12:09 PM
I caught some until I couldn't listen any more.

The logic was this:
You can't win a super bowl if you're soft.
Ergo
The Texans are soft.

They tried to pin him down on what he meant, and it was basically their coaches aren't Parcells or Ryan, they have bad line play, and their offensive linemen are small. Well, duh.

Lombardi has always rubbed me the wrong way. If he's such a good talent evaluator, why isn't he still in the NFL? Even Casserly got a second chance. Just because you're opinionated and sound good on TV doesn't make you a good analyst.

This whole thing strikes me as ridiculous. If they win, they won't be soft. If they lose they'll be soft. It's weak and poor analysis.Oddly enough, Martyball was considered some of the toughest in the league, and while Schottenheimer had very good teams, they never, ever won a Super Bowl.

Rey
08-05-2011, 12:20 PM
Keith bullock called us soft before too.

I thought about it and what would make a player call a team soft, and I think it boils down to in between the tackles. If you consistently win battles on both sides of the line in the trenches you will never be considered soft. Whereas if you are bullied down there even a few times, that soft image will be hard to shake.

Traditionally that has been a bit of a struggle for us.

And I thought about the fact that winning teams or in this case a portion of a team has won AND been called soft. That is the colts. Even though they have consistently won a lot of games, their d line has been considered soft at certain points.

Basically if the texans lines win a lot more battles collectively, I think the soft label that some give us will disappear.

GP
08-05-2011, 12:27 PM
Bob doesn't play the game. I'm not even sure what your post is trying to say, to be honest. idonno:

Bob doesn't play the game? Shocker.

But he fields the team. He puts it out there. No need to marginalize the impact of the owner in a pro sports league. Mark Cuban could have imploded his Mavericks had he thought his squad of old guys wasn't cutting it, but he held onto them because he felt they were almost there--And they got there, indeed!

Owners impact the team. Owners sign the checks, they damn sure have direct control of operations. Am I to sit here and believe that Bob is out shopping for antiques with his wife while only Gary and Rick run the show without him? That's not how it happens. If Bob wants to retain David Carr for an extra year, he will. If he wants to retain Dunta Robinson for an extra year, he will. He will stick his nose into the mix where and when he wants to.

And this is evidenced by Bob sticking with Kubiak (refusing the siren song of Bill Cowher, which was obvious to everyone who watched CBS pregame coverage throughout the 2010 season) and evidenced by hiring a proven d-coordinator and letting him run the draft AND grab two premiere secondary players rather than the run-of-the-mill street free agents like we did before.

All of the aforementioned things were at Bob's discretion. He got us into this mess, and he got us out of it (on paper, for now). For all we know, Gary and Rick were grabbing coaching personnel that Bob and his upper crust cronies wanted. At worst, Bob could have been hiring so-called "consultants" like he did with Dan Reeves--which got us the extra Carr year, btw--who in turn got in Bob's ear enough to make Bob run the show "his way" and leaving Gary and Rick to hold the bag when it turns out how it eventually turned out.

I don't care to sit here and roll through all the various scenarios of who is ultimately responsible and who isn't, or to what degree each criminal played a role in this crime against football humanity for the past four years here. All I know is that there is a triumvirate of suck with Bob and Gary and Rick all three playing a role in it.

To that extent, "Yeah, I can't say this team is 'soft' per se." I can say that this team played competent football on offense but was weighed down by an atrocious defense that has three sets of fingerprints all over it--Bob, Gary, and Rick. They've all three gone back to the crime scene and have wiped their prints from it...but let's see how it plays out in a court of law this reg season. Will the charges stick? Will they get an acquittal? Who knows.

I just don't think the "soft" tag being placed upon the offense is the evidence that convicts the Texans of being soft. If anything, it's been incompetent mishandling of the defense that has been the death of this team.

b0ng
08-05-2011, 12:28 PM
Keith bullock called us soft before too.

I thought about it and what would make a player call a team soft, and I think it boils down to in between the tackles. If you consistently win battles on both sides of the line in the trenches you will never be considered soft. Whereas if you are bullied down there even a few times, that soft image will be hard to shake.

Traditionally that has been a bit of a struggle for us.

And I thought about the fact that winning teams or in this case a portion of a team has won AND been called soft. That is the colts. Even though they have consistently won a lot of games, their d line has been considered soft at certain points.

Basically if the texans lines win a lot more battles collectively, I think the soft label that some give us will disappear.

For what the Texans O-line is supposed to be I thought they were fantastic as a collective unit that won a lot of battles with what is supposedly much bigger and better opponents (Ravens, Jets come to mind, games in which the offense was pretty good).

False Start
08-05-2011, 12:38 PM
Saw these pics over on 790....we ARE soft..:toropalm:


http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/5266/sost3.jpg

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/3561/sosft2.jpg

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/3880/soft1v.jpg

michaelm
08-05-2011, 12:39 PM
Saw these pics over on 790....we ARE soft..:toropalm:



http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/3561/sosft2.jpg

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/3880/soft1v.jpg


Funny Shyte.
Must spread rep...

The Pencil Neck
08-05-2011, 12:39 PM
Saw these pics over on 790....we ARE soft..:toropalm:



http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/3561/sosft2.jpg

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/3880/soft1v.jpg

http://nerdnirvana.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/i-see-what-you-did-there.jpg

Rey
08-05-2011, 12:46 PM
For what the Texans O-line is supposed to be I thought they were fantastic as a collective unit that won a lot of battles with what is supposedly much bigger and better opponents (Ravens, Jets come to mind, games in which the offense was pretty good).

Right, but we need to do more of that on both sides of the ball. Gotta shake the stigma of many years past otherwise it's just an aberration.

Double Barrel
08-05-2011, 01:11 PM
Bob doesn't play the game? Shocker.


You flip-flop so much I'm not sure from day to day or week to week where you're going to land.

You were blasting McNair not that long ago, iirc. Now you've got him on the pedestal that he's a football mastermind.

But he fields the team. He puts it out there. No need to marginalize the impact of the owner in a pro sports league. Mark Cuban could have imploded his Mavericks had he thought his squad of old guys wasn't cutting it, but he held onto them because he felt they were almost there--And they got there, indeed!

Owners impact the team. Owners sign the checks, they damn sure have direct control of operations. Am I to sit here and believe that Bob is out shopping for antiques with his wife while only Gary and Rick run the show without him? That's not how it happens. If Bob wants to retain David Carr for an extra year, he will. If he wants to retain Dunta Robinson for an extra year, he will. He will stick his nose into the mix where and when he wants to.


Pure speculation. All accounts are that Bob is the CEO and hires people to run his team. He does not make day-to-day personnel decisions and does not gameplan. By his own words, he lets the professionals do their jobs. It's one of his endearing qualities as an owner.

Give me something more concrete that Bob is acting like a Mark Cuban-type of owner. Pulling stuff out of your ass does not qualify.

You still harping on HWWNBN and Robinson? Those stories are YEARS ago. "You're livin' in the past, man! You're hung up on some clown from the sixties, man!" (Seinfeld reference)

It's fine and dandy that you've joined the Sunshine Club. I won't rain on your parade. Just don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.

btw, I don't necessarily agree or disagree with Lombardi. I take his comments, like most commentators, with a grain of salt. I'm waiting to see the team on the field of play in the regular season. That is all that really matters to me, not getting upset about mere words.

False Start
08-05-2011, 01:30 PM
Heres the Lombardi podcast on 1560. (http://www.1560thegame.com/media/?p=4758)

b0ng
08-05-2011, 01:32 PM
Right, but we need to do more of that on both sides of the ball. Gotta shake the stigma of many years past otherwise it's just an aberration.

True and hopefully they do that by bringing back every piece of the Oline this year.

I think honestly unless the Texans go through and shit on teams like the Steelers/Pats/Ravens we'll always have this label no matter what style of football we play.

For people like Lombardi, what they know about the Texans mostly falls around what their record is so we get turd analysis like "they are soft" without any real world examples of what is and isn't soft.

Ryan
08-05-2011, 02:01 PM
I honestly couldn't disagree with anything Lombardi said in that interview.

b0ng
08-05-2011, 02:12 PM
I honestly couldn't disagree with anything Lombardi said in that interview.

I think somebody who is trying to talk about how the Texans practice, and trying to make points about how we practice, you'd think that he would've actually have been to a few practices before.

He's also going on and on about how smaller linemen don't work and is talking about pass protection as though we don't do that.

I'm pretty much disagreeing with everything I hear as he says it.

EDIT: He basically doesn't like the ZBS and therefore it is not physical and therefore they are soft.

EDIT2: Teams that don't have huge hulking linemen are apparently the only teams that win in the NFL.

thunderkyss
08-05-2011, 09:12 PM
You know, the guys saying we aren't soft, point to Arian Foster & his 1600 rushing yards. Or the Texans' 2000+ yards as a team.

But, what about the other side of the ball? How many 3rd & 13s did we give up? 3rd & 19?

How many tackles did we miss?

How far from the bottom were we?

If anyone thinks this team is soft, I would bet it was the defensive side of the ball he was talking about.

GP
08-05-2011, 10:43 PM
You flip-flop so much I'm not sure from day to day or week to week where you're going to land.

You were blasting McNair not that long ago, iirc. Now you've got him on the pedestal that he's a football mastermind.

Pure speculation. All accounts are that Bob is the CEO and hires people to run his team. He does not make day-to-day personnel decisions and does not gameplan. By his own words, he lets the professionals do their jobs. It's one of his endearing qualities as an owner.

Give me something more concrete that Bob is acting like a Mark Cuban-type of owner. Pulling stuff out of your ass does not qualify.

You still harping on HWWNBN and Robinson? Those stories are YEARS ago. "You're livin' in the past, man! You're hung up on some clown from the sixties, man!" (Seinfeld reference)

It's fine and dandy that you've joined the Sunshine Club. I won't rain on your parade. Just don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.

btw, I don't necessarily agree or disagree with Lombardi. I take his comments, like most commentators, with a grain of salt. I'm waiting to see the team on the field of play in the regular season. That is all that really matters to me, not getting upset about mere words.

Wow. I can only say that you must not pay much attention to what I say then.

I can't sit here and just endlessly bash this team, DB. If you want to buy into Lomtardy's comments and laugh at your own team, then go right ahead. I put down my haterade the day we signed a S/CB combo that was the sort of thing I have been bitching about for a long, long time. Everybody's been wanting it. Not a rookie draftee. No, a veteran Safety and a veteran Cornerback. We even found a way to make three guys re-structure so we could add a more than competent FB for Foster to run behind.

Meanwhile, the past four years have been filled with this offense putting up great numbers and watching the defense piss it away. Literally piss it away. We had to score somewhere between 21 and 28 (or more) points, and often had to do it as the last team holding the football in order to keep our defense from pissing it away. But yet Eric Winston is soft? Riiiiight.

Eric is targeted here, by Lomtardy, because he knows Eric is vocal in the media and he knows he's game for a verbal war. If anything, Lomtardy is showing that he has to bait and goad a vocal guy with the Texans in order to get airtime on The View.

Lomtardy comes around making fun of the Texans and I'm supposed to be a sad sack and agree with it? I don't agree with it. I think the only asshole who's been holding this team back is the guy who owns it. And even HE decided to stop being an asshole and get busy building a defense equal to the competent offense that was built over the past four years. Slow golf clap for Bob McNair, he just might have finally figured it out. Only took him five years, but hey...good job, Bob.

FOR THAT, I'm sorry to say that I must lay down the ***** stick and stop whacking at the Texans pinata. My bad for not being there to back up your assertions. Sue me.

I've supported everything else you've said and we've rubber stamped each other's gripes for a long time, but I'm just realizing that football is here again and I want to see if McNair can prove us wrong.

Go have a cookie and pet a puppy or something.

Here:

"We suck."

"We're soft."

"Lombardi is right. We're losers."

"I won't get excited and expect success until it happens, that way I can't be made out to be a fool for believing in such a sucky, soft team like Houston."

What the hell else can I do for you, man? What the hell do I owe you? Nothing.

CloakNNNdagger
08-05-2011, 10:59 PM
SOFT?..........DEM'S FIGHTIN' WORDS!!!!!!!!

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41n0G3VpnyL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

aussie_texan
08-05-2011, 11:43 PM
Aug. 05, 2011 7:20 p.m. - by Brandon Williams - DE Smith: Texans defense isn't soft
DE Antonio Smith on the "soft" label that some in the media have tagged the defense with: "Put on the pads...Oklahoma Drill. Take it back to college (and) let them see how it feels a little bit. I don't believe it. I don't see it and you can rest assured if I thought someone was soft on our defense, you would know it." Texans RapidReports

loving the attitude our teams has, but we gotta back it up though

GP
08-05-2011, 11:46 PM
Aug. 05, 2011 7:20 p.m. - by Brandon Williams - DE Smith: Texans defense isn't soft
DE Antonio Smith on the "soft" label that some in the media have tagged the defense with: "Put on the pads...Oklahoma Drill. Take it back to college (and) let them see how it feels a little bit. I don't believe it. I don't see it and you can rest assured if I thought someone was soft on our defense, you would know it." Texans RapidReports

loving the attitude our teams has, but we gotta back it up though

This means nothing.

How dare he speak up and debate the issue? He should just shut up and wait to say something when we're sitting at 12-2 and have two games left to go.

Meanwhile back on planet earth.......NFL players like to voice their opinions when they're called out as being a bunch of weenies by a flabby no-name on a TV show.

False Start
08-06-2011, 08:01 PM
SOFT?..........DEM'S FIGHTIN' WORDS!!!!!!!!

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41n0G3VpnyL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Apparently the Texans are coming out with their won TP, with Toro replacing that bear with toilet parer stuck to his ass on Charmin toilet parer.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/6109/charmintexans.jpg

:heh:

edo783
08-08-2011, 10:59 PM
Sometimes folks confuse physicality with toughness. Real toughness is mostly mental.

Texan_Bill
08-08-2011, 11:18 PM
I'm just gonna say this... There is a difference between "soft" and "sucking"!!! Does anyone think Bernard Pollard was 'soft'"??? Or did he just suck in coverage???? I'm leaning towards the "latter" NOT the "former"!!!

As far as Lombardi, he's not that far off, but on the otherhand he has to rely on sorta a national perception of the Texans and I can understand that........ That said, don't tell me for a minute that Ryans, Smith, Cushing or Mario are "soft"... I'm pretty sure that the new additions of J. Joseph or D Manning with a new "D" coordinator won't toughen that "D" up!!!?!???!?


11-5 / 12-4!!!! SERIOUSLY... The bulk of the losses are through the first 4 to 6 weeks..

Double Barrel
08-09-2011, 11:51 AM
Wow. I can only say that you must not pay much attention to what I say then.

Apparently that's a two way street.

I can't sit here and just endlessly bash this team, DB. If you want to buy into Lomtardy's comments and laugh at your own team, then go right ahead. I put down my haterade the day we signed a S/CB combo that was the sort of thing I have been bitching about for a long, long time. Everybody's been wanting it. Not a rookie draftee. No, a veteran Safety and a veteran Cornerback. We even found a way to make three guys re-structure so we could add a more than competent FB for Foster to run behind.


I don't drink "hatorade" or "koolaide". And that is a fundamental difference between you and I as fans. I don't ride waves. I watch and analyze and form my own conclusions based on history and trends, not just within the Texans world but as an NFL fan.

I'm as optimistic about the Texans as I've been in years, but that optimism does not come with a set of blinders.

My point about Lombardi was not to argue for or against his opinions. I don't get butthurt when someone doesn't like my team.

Eric is targeted here, by Lomtardy, because he knows Eric is vocal in the media and he knows he's game for a verbal war. If anything, Lomtardy is showing that he has to bait and goad a vocal guy with the Texans in order to get airtime on The View.

Winston is a target because he made himself a target. He's playing both sides against the middle by acting like a media figure on one hand (very well documented) and being a player on the other.

Do you understand why Lombardi targeted Winston? Eric went on national tv on a couple of shows to defend the new pads rule, even going so far as to say half the teams in the NFL, including the Packers, do not practice twice a day in pads.

In his own words, HOW DOES HE KNOW? DOES HE GO TO ALL THESE TEAMS' PRACTICES?

Do you see his hypocrisy? He put himself out there and then cops out when called to the carpet.

I never said he was soft. Look at my words. I said I can understand why someone sees the TEAM as soft. It's in our history of never dominating good teams. Crying about history is just silly. It is what it is.

Lomtardy comes around making fun of the Texans and I'm supposed to be a sad sack and agree with it? I don't agree with it. I think the only asshole who's been holding this team back is the guy who owns it. And even HE decided to stop being an asshole and get busy building a defense equal to the competent offense that was built over the past four years. Slow golf clap for Bob McNair, he just might have finally figured it out. Only took him five years, but hey...good job, Bob.

And here is another fundamental difference between us. You see an analyst "making fun" of the Texans, but I see an honest assessment that I am free to agree or disagree with.

"Making fun" would be what you do when you don't agree with someone. I do not see the "fun" in a media figure giving opinions about 1 of 32 teams that he has to cover. It's his JOB and he'd look like a dumbass and lose all credibility if he was talking up the Texans as being tough. Is it that hard to comprehend to you?

FOR THAT, I'm sorry to say that I must lay down the ***** stick and stop whacking at the Texans pinata. My bad for not being there to back up your assertions. Sue me.

I've supported everything else you've said and we've rubber stamped each other's gripes for a long time, but I'm just realizing that football is here again and I want to see if McNair can prove us wrong.

Go have a cookie and pet a puppy or something.

Here:

"We suck."

"We're soft."

"Lombardi is right. We're losers."

"I won't get excited and expect success until it happens, that way I can't be made out to be a fool for believing in such a sucky, soft team like Houston."

What the hell else can I do for you, man? What the hell do I owe you? Nothing.

See, here is YOU "making fun". You don't agree with my perspective, so you start going the route of the emo kid. Waaah. I won't take your cookie or your puppy. You obviously need these tools for your therapy. :fingergun:

"Lomtardy" ??? For real? Do you honestly expect to be taken seriously when you start using 6th grade humor? What does it even supposed to mean?

What's funny is that if the team doesn't live up to your expectations, you'll be the first to write 5000 word dissertations on everything wrong with the entire organization.

:mag:c'mon, you know it's true!

Meanwhile back on planet earth.......NFL players like to voice their opinions when they're called out as being a bunch of weenies by a flabby no-name on a TV show.

When NFL players sit in a radio booth and act like analysts, they should be more thick skinned about the reactions they get.

Sometimes folks confuse physicality with toughness. Real toughness is mostly mental.

QFT. Well said man. This is apparently incomprehensible to folks living a in a koolaide high.

TEXANRED
08-09-2011, 11:57 AM
I'm just gonna say this... There is a difference between "soft" and "sucking"!!!

From general experience those two things hardly ever go together.

Vinnie
08-09-2011, 12:08 PM
DB, I agree with most of what you're saying except I'd stop short of calling Winston a hypocrite. He is the player union rep for the Texans and as such is in contact with the other player reps around the league. Working conditions such as practices are exactly the types of things those guys discuss together. That's part of their job as union reps. Does he attend all the other training camps? Of course not, but between the two of them (Lombardi & Winston) I'd venture to guess Eric has a much firmer grasp on what other teams are doing practice wise than Mike.

HOU-TEX
08-09-2011, 12:15 PM
DB, I agree with most of what you're saying except I'd stop short of calling Winston a hypocrite. He is the player union rep for the Texans and as such is in contact with the other player reps around the league. Working conditions such as practices are exactly the types of things those guys discuss together. That's part of their job as union reps. Does he attend all the other training camps? Of course not, but between the two of them (Lombardi & Winston) I'd venture to guess Eric has a much firmer grasp on what other teams are doing practice wise than Mike.

Actually, D-Ryans is our player rep. Winston's the back up.

Mr. White
08-09-2011, 12:23 PM
Lombardi's just a guy calling it like he sees it.

I think the O-Line got a little more physical last year, but it's not like the Texans have turned a "toughness corner" yet.

Overall, the team hasn't shaken the "soft" label yet.....which is why I don't think Winston would make the same comments again if given the opportunity.

I sure hope the team is as fired up about this as the fans are.

Double Barrel
08-09-2011, 12:27 PM
DB, I agree with most of what you're saying except I'd stop short of calling Winston a hypocrite. He is the player union rep for the Texans and as such is in contact with the other player reps around the league. Working conditions such as practices are exactly the types of things those guys discuss together. That's part of their job as union reps. Does he attend all the other training camps? Of course not, but between the two of them (Lombardi & Winston) I'd venture to guess Eric has a much firmer grasp on what other teams are doing practice wise than Mike.

That's cool, man. I like Winston, so it's not a vendetta against the guy. I enjoy his media presence.

A lot of current and formers plays, as well as coaches, completely disagree with Winston about the effectiveness of more padded practices versus less. The proof of each perspective will be played out in the coming years. It'll definitely be a topic of interest for many seasons to come.

Mr. White
08-09-2011, 12:53 PM
Apparently that's a two way street.



I don't drink "hatorade" or "koolaide". And that is a fundamental difference between you and I as fans. I don't ride waves. I watch and analyze and form my own conclusions based on history and trends, not just within the Texans world but as an NFL fan.

I'm as optimistic about the Texans as I've been in years, but that optimism does not come with a set of blinders.

My point about Lombardi was not to argue for or against his opinions. I don't get butthurt when someone doesn't like my team.



Winston is a target because he made himself a target. He's playing both sides against the middle by acting like a media figure on one hand (very well documented) and being a player on the other.

Do you understand why Lombardi targeted Winston? Eric went on national tv on a couple of shows to defend the new pads rule, even going so far as to say half the teams in the NFL, including the Packers, do not practice twice a day in pads.

In his own words, HOW DOES HE KNOW? DOES HE GO TO ALL THESE TEAMS' PRACTICES?

Do you see his hypocrisy? He put himself out there and then cops out when called to the carpet.

I never said he was soft. Look at my words. I said I can understand why someone sees the TEAM as soft. It's in our history of never dominating good teams. Crying about history is just silly. It is what it is.



And here is another fundamental difference between us. You see an analyst "making fun" of the Texans, but I see an honest assessment that I am free to agree or disagree with.

"Making fun" would be what you do when you don't agree with someone. I do not see the "fun" in a media figure giving opinions about 1 of 32 teams that he has to cover. It's his JOB and he'd look like a dumbass and lose all credibility if he was talking up the Texans as being tough. Is it that hard to comprehend to you?



See, here is YOU "making fun". You don't agree with my perspective, so you start going the route of the emo kid. Waaah. I won't take your cookie or your puppy. You obviously need these tools for your therapy. :fingergun:

"Lomtardy" ??? For real? Do you honestly expect to be taken seriously when you start using 6th grade humor? What does it even supposed to mean?

What's funny is that if the team doesn't live up to your expectations, you'll be the first to write 5000 word dissertations on everything wrong with the entire organization.

:mag:c'mon, you know it's true!



When NFL players sit in a radio booth and act like analysts, they should be more thick skinned about the reactions they get.



QFT. Well said man. This is apparently incomprehensible to folks living a in a koolaide high.

Agreed like always, brutha. Must spread rep.

The Pencil Neck
08-09-2011, 12:54 PM
I don't much care what Lombardi says.

Teams that pass a lot (and well) are generally seen as soft, finesse types of teams. Teams that run the zone blocking system are generally seen as soft, finesse types of teams. Teams with bad defenses are seen as soft, finesse types of teams.

Lombardi's big mistake is his belief that you have to be a hard/smash-mouth team to win a Super Bowl or to be successful. And so he twists himself into a pretzel with stuff like the Saints WERE soft and then the year they won the SB, they weren't. The Colts were soft and then the year they won the SB, they weren't.

We are what we are.

Last year, we were a 6-10 team. 6-10 teams aren't "not" soft.

The only way we become not-soft in Lombardi's eyes if we win the SB.

mussop
08-09-2011, 06:30 PM
I wish more media members would question our toughness, desire, heart physicality or whatever so Maybe it would light a fire under some of our guys. We definitely don't have enough guys on this team that refuse to loose. We need more of all the above. We need guys that come out of the tunnel (first half) ready to destroy the other team.

We need to develop a personality. one where we don't just play games to win but we play with an attitude that we aren't only going to win but we are going to dominate and embarrass the other team and no matter what, we aren't going to loose.

drs23
08-09-2011, 07:35 PM
I wish more media members would question our toughness, desire, heart physicality or whatever so Maybe it would light a fire under some of our guys. We definitely don't have enough guys on this team that refuse to loose. We need more of all the above. We need guys that come out of the tunnel (first half) ready to destroy the other team.

We need to develop a personality. one where we don't just play games to win but we play with an attitude that we aren't only going to win but we are going to dominate and embarrass the other team and no matter what, we aren't going to loose.

From what I'm hearing from our very own observers as well as those from the local media we have at least one of those guys. He wears #99 and his name is JJ Watt(No "s"). The reports about this stud are making my ears hard. Sounds like the FO hit a home run right here. Can't wait to see JJ shreading O linemen!

As much as I wanted to restrain my enthusiasm and have a "Prove it to me" attitude, this guy is sounding like exactly what we needed. Can't wait to see him and the rest of the crew coming together. I, like some others have posted, feel really good about this draft.

I feel better about our team than I have in quite some time.

Does that make me a :homer:?

House of Pain
08-09-2011, 07:38 PM
We need to develop a personality. one where we don't just play games to win but we play with an attitude that we aren't only going to win but we are going to dominate and embarrass the other team and no matter what, we aren't going to loose.

I hate it when we loose!

GP
08-09-2011, 08:28 PM
I'm just going to hang 'em up on this topic.

All I have done is said that Lombardi is mis-identifying the problem, and that he's gaining traction on something that sounds suave and intellectual...but has no gas in the tank or legs to stand upon.

I don't think these guys are soft. And if one of them, or more, feel the need to respond to a guy in a suit on a studio somewhere, then that's their choice and THAT, as well, does not make them soft for doing it.

The end. (For me, at least). Others can carry on if they wish.

devo-x
08-09-2011, 08:37 PM
I want to see the Texans thoroughly dominate the Colts in the first game with a 'refuse to lose' mentality :foottap:

thunderkyss
08-10-2011, 10:36 AM
I don't much care what Lombardi says.

Teams that pass a lot (and well) are generally seen as soft, finesse types of teams. Teams that run the zone blocking system are generally seen as soft, finesse types of teams. Teams with bad defenses are seen as soft, finesse types of teams.

Lombardi's big mistake is his belief that you have to be a hard/smash-mouth team to win a Super Bowl or to be successful.

See, I didn't take his comments to mean that at all.

It is obvious Winston & several others have.

When he said we were soft, I'm thinking back to 2009, we had the game well in hand, then with no time left on the clock, we let Maurice Jones Drew hop-skip & waltz down the field & cap it off to do a freaky little shiver of a dance in the endzone.

When we need a score, we don't get it. When we need a stop.... 3 & 19 does that sound familiar to anyone.

The Pencil Neck
08-10-2011, 10:40 AM
See, I didn't take his comments to mean that at all.

It is obvious Winston & several others have.

When he said we were soft, I'm thinking back to 2009, we had the game well in hand, then with no time left on the clock, we let Maurice Jones Drew hop-skip & waltz down the field & cap it off to do a freaky little shiver of a dance in the endzone.

When we need a score, we don't get it. When we need a stop.... 3 & 19 does that sound familiar to anyone.

Except that Lombardi specifically said teams that run the ZBS are soft and it doesn't matter if they win the rushing title. Lombardi said that teams that pass a lot like we have are soft and teams like that don't win the Super Bowl.

If he was just talking about the defense not being able to shut out games, I'd agree with him totally. But he's saying we're soft because of our offense as much as because of our defense.

b0ng
08-10-2011, 10:42 AM
Lombardi's just a guy calling it like he sees it.

I think the O-Line got a little more physical last year, but it's not like the Texans have turned a "toughness corner" yet.

Overall, the team hasn't shaken the "soft" label yet.....which is why I don't think Winston would make the same comments again if given the opportunity.

I sure hope the team is as fired up about this as the fans are.

Not calling out anybody but. . .

The more games the Texans win, the less retarded "labels" get applied to them. That's it, when you don't win, people call you all sorts of shit that is and isn't true, and they don't even have to back it up because they just point to the record as though it gives them carte blanche to just call the Texans whatever they feel like.

Unfortunately nobody wins the offseason or the preseason, so these circular argument will go on and on until the Texans prove on the field that they are or are not soft. To me though, everybody is using the word "soft" to mask what they really mean, which is "not good".

HoustonFrog
08-10-2011, 10:49 AM
Apparently that's a two way street.



I don't drink "hatorade" or "koolaide". And that is a fundamental difference between you and I as fans. I don't ride waves. I watch and analyze and form my own conclusions based on history and trends, not just within the Texans world but as an NFL fan.

I'm as optimistic about the Texans as I've been in years, but that optimism does not come with a set of blinders.

My point about Lombardi was not to argue for or against his opinions. I don't get butthurt when someone doesn't like my team.



Winston is a target because he made himself a target. He's playing both sides against the middle by acting like a media figure on one hand (very well documented) and being a player on the other.

Do you understand why Lombardi targeted Winston? Eric went on national tv on a couple of shows to defend the new pads rule, even going so far as to say half the teams in the NFL, including the Packers, do not practice twice a day in pads.

In his own words, HOW DOES HE KNOW? DOES HE GO TO ALL THESE TEAMS' PRACTICES?

Do you see his hypocrisy? He put himself out there and then cops out when called to the carpet.

I never said he was soft. Look at my words. I said I can understand why someone sees the TEAM as soft. It's in our history of never dominating good teams. Crying about history is just silly. It is what it is.



And here is another fundamental difference between us. You see an analyst "making fun" of the Texans, but I see an honest assessment that I am free to agree or disagree with.

"Making fun" would be what you do when you don't agree with someone. I do not see the "fun" in a media figure giving opinions about 1 of 32 teams that he has to cover. It's his JOB and he'd look like a dumbass and lose all credibility if he was talking up the Texans as being tough. Is it that hard to comprehend to you?



See, here is YOU "making fun". You don't agree with my perspective, so you start going the route of the emo kid. Waaah. I won't take your cookie or your puppy. You obviously need these tools for your therapy. :fingergun:

"Lomtardy" ??? For real? Do you honestly expect to be taken seriously when you start using 6th grade humor? What does it even supposed to mean?

What's funny is that if the team doesn't live up to your expectations, you'll be the first to write 5000 word dissertations on everything wrong with the entire organization.

:mag:c'mon, you know it's true!



When NFL players sit in a radio booth and act like analysts, they should be more thick skinned about the reactions they get.



QFT. Well said man. This is apparently incomprehensible to folks living a in a koolaide high.

I agree with 100% of this message. This message has been approved by HF :)

I'm not sure why people are peeved at Lombardi. Rex Ryan called the Texans soft and that is how they prepared before playing them. Most hard nosed 3-4 type teams have taken it to the Texans. I think alot of the stigma isn't exactly "look how badass we are" but "do you start games punching a guy in the mouth and then do it for 4 quarters." When is the last time the Texans punched a team in the mouth, much less played a full 4 quarters? Most here have used the soft label before. From Gary in his pressers to McNair's comments last season, the "aura" is that of a very nice group of people who won't punch in the face. Not hating, that has just been the reality. As for Winston...I've already let loose on that guy. Not my favorite when it comes to being all things media, all the time..especially for an average/above average lineman.I actually think the Cushing pick and now the Watt pick are because the coaches know that soft is the stigma.

El Tejano
08-10-2011, 11:07 AM
I agree with 100% of this message. This message has been approved by HF :)

I'm not sure why people are peeved at Lombardi. Rex Ryan called the Texans soft and that is how they prepared before playing them. Most hard nosed 3-4 type teams have taken it to the Texans. I think alot of the stigma isn't exactly "look how badass we are" but "do you start games punching a guy in the mouth and then do it for 4 quarters." When is the last time the Texans punched a team in the moth, much less played a full 4 quarters? Most here have used the soft label before. From Gary in his pressers to McNair's comments last season, the "aura" is that of a very nice group of people who won't punch in the face. Not hating, that has just been the reality. As for Winston...I've already let loose on that guy. Not my favorite when it comes to being all things media, all the time..especially for an average/above average lineman.I actually think the Cushing pick and now the Watt pick are because the coaches know that soft is the stigma.

Can't argue that but we also haven't played any Moths.

michaelm
08-10-2011, 11:20 AM
Sometimes folks confuse physicality with toughness. Real toughness is mostly mental.

Texans players must be mentally tough, otherwise we'd have had about 20 player suicides last year.

HoustonFrog
08-10-2011, 11:30 AM
Can't argue that but we also haven't played any Moths.

That is going to be the new LA team...Los Angeles Moths :)

GP
08-10-2011, 11:44 AM
I agree with 100% of this message. This message has been approved by HF :)

I'm not sure why people are peeved at Lombardi. Rex Ryan called the Texans soft and that is how they prepared before playing them. Most hard nosed 3-4 type teams have taken it to the Texans. I think alot of the stigma isn't exactly "look how badass we are" but "do you start games punching a guy in the mouth and then do it for 4 quarters." When is the last time the Texans punched a team in the moth, much less played a full 4 quarters? Most here have used the soft label before. From Gary in his pressers to McNair's comments last season, the "aura" is that of a very nice group of people who won't punch in the face. Not hating, that has just been the reality. As for Winston...I've already let loose on that guy. Not my favorite when it comes to being all things media, all the time..especially for an average/above average lineman.I actually think the Cushing pick and now the Watt pick are because the coaches know that soft is the stigma.

Rex Ryan's team beat us on opening day because our defense was atrocious. A rookie QB starting his first NFL game ever was able to nickel and dime his way against us.

Our offensive line also didn't show up that day, so I guess there's a perceived "softness" problem.

I still come back to the problem of us having virtually NO defense whatsoever for the past four years. The thing that I love about NFL, or football in general, is that it's the only major sport where you have TWO teams within the team--You have an offense and its players, and you have a defense and its own players on it. One side can do great, but if the other side does poorly...it can take great and make it worthless. In football, you have to take 22 players and make them great at what each "team" does out there.

We just simply could not stop the bleeding on the defense side of our team. Great offenses seemingly can be undone by poor defenses (see the Oilers-Bills playoff game, and the Oilers altogether from that era). Our offense can generate points, so much so that they can even wait until the 4th quarter if they want to. But our defense? Oy. They almost let the Colts back into our opening game last year, except Arian and the offense kept pouring on the TDs for every TD the Colts got at the end of the game. It was that game that foreshadowed the year to come for us: If our offense didn't match other teams' point production, we were screwed. If we didn't hold the ball and score at the end of games, we were screwed.

The demise of our defense this past year looked almost like a mirror image of the demise of our offense at the culmination of the David Carr era. Both situations saw a semi-competent offense/defense that ultimately could not weather the multiple years of abuse inflicted upon it.

I can't sit here and call it "softness" that has been our enemy. I feel like ownership decisions played more of a role than anything else. Coaches? Players? Systems? It's all connected to the owner who signs off on it and says "Yes, this is what I like. Carry on." To me, Bob McNair had some sort of ideal in his head that he must have torn up and thrown into his fireplace at the end of 2010. Slow and steady seems to have been tossed aside.

I was watching an NFLN show that was behind-the-scenes of the Chiefs 2007 season. Carl Peterson, President, was running the show in the conference room when coaches (Herm Edwards, HC) were talking about who should be cut and who should make the 53-man roster. Was very interesting to watch how much Carl Peterson dominated that whole scene. He sat at the head of the table, and Herm Edwards looked like a dog begging for scraps. Every player Herm wanted, Carl would question him on it and then even go so far as to go around the table and see if his coaches agreed with Herm or not. Lots and lots of other scenes where you can see Herm Edwards pretty much kow-towing (sp?) to Peterson.

I won't say that Kubiak and Smith ALWAYS defer to McNair. But I also won't sit here and say that McNair always defers to Smithiak, either. All I am trying to say is that there are unique dynamics that affect the team much more than whether we have ball sack or not. I can't even understand how a tougher ball sack overcomes poor players and a poor system using those poor players.

Whether it was Bob, or Gary, or Rick, or all three of 'em is not relevant to me...What IS relevant to me is that they all own the problems of this team as it relates to a poor offense and poor players on offense in Carr era (McNair owns that one), coupled with poor players and poor defense in the Schaub era (Bob has a share in this one).

What's funny is that if our BETTER d-coord, our BETTER defensive system, and our BETTER defensive players actually cause this team to soar in 2011...people (Lombardi included) will say we toughened up our nut sack to the level of Kevlar armor. LOL. Riiiiiiiight.

HoustonFrog
08-10-2011, 11:54 AM
Rex Ryan's team beat us on opening day because our defense was atrocious. A rookie QB starting his first NFL game ever was able to nickel and dime his way against us.

We just simply could not stop the bleeding on the defense side of our team. Great offenses seemingly can be undone by poor defenses (see the Oilers-Bills playoff game, and the Oilers altogether from that era). Our offense can generate points, so much so that they can even wait until the 4th quarter if they want to. But our defense? Oy. They almost let the Colts back into our opening game last year, except Arian and the offense kept pouring on the TDs for every TD the Colts got at the end of the game. It was that game that foreshadowed the year to come for us: If our offense didn't match other teams' point production, we were screwed. If we didn't hold the ball and score at the end of games, we were screwed.

.

Sorry but I'm ignoring alot of that to concentrate on the quoted because I keep hearing that is because of the poor defense. It isn't. When I mentioned 3-4 type tough teams taking it to the Texans it was an offensive problem too. That is where the soft label comes in. Most of these teams had basically shut down the offense for a good part of the game and the Texans comebacks were late when they threw non-stop. The offense doesn't come out, punch teams in the mouth and then steps on the neck for a game. They come out and Gary "feels out his opponent", tries some new wrinkles and then when the game is getting out of control because the D sucks and the O has been uninspired and stagnent, they let it ride and start throwing and getting aggressive. Other teams know this. Look at the teams that have gotten to them..Giants, Cowboys, Jets, Ravens (early)etc...all had guys who got to the QB and who could force 3 and outs if needed. It is a team mindset..not one side is better than the other. It is how they start games and play throughout a game.

GP
08-10-2011, 12:16 PM
Sorry but I'm ignoring alot of that to concentrate on the quoted because I keep hearing that is because of the poor defense. It isn't. When I mentioned 3-4 type tough teams taking it to the Texans it was an offensive problem too. That is where the soft label comes in. Most of these teams had basically shut down the offense for a good part of the game and the Texans comebacks were late when they threw non-stop. The offense doesn't come out, punch teams in the mouth and then steps on the neck for a game. They come out and Gary "feels out his opponent", tries some new wrinkles and then when the game is getting out of control because the D sucks and the O has been uninspired and stagnent, they let it ride and start throwing and getting aggressive. Other teams know this. Look at the teams that have gotten to them..Giants, Cowboys, Jets, Ravens (early)etc...all had guys who got to the QB and who could force 3 and outs if needed. It is a team mindset..not one side is better than the other. It is how they start games and play throughout a game.

Even if we came out and punched defenses in the nose, OUR defense would give it back to the opposing offense. You know that. I know that. No better game shows that than the opening game vs. Colts.

We also had a 4-3 defense until now, which means Schaub & Co. faced a 4-3 mindset (even if our defense TRIED to emulate a 3-4 certain practices) during practices. The players in that system, specifically the Texans secondary would make Pee Wee Herman soar in practice and come crashing down come gameday vs. a legitimate 3-4 defense. Is it any surprise that the TC reports show a defense that is dominating every day? Nope. Because Wade is throwing the same things at Schaub and the o-line as what Rex Ryan threw at us and other 3-4 gurus threw at us in the past.

Schaub & Co. are getting a new education this year. And I think that's AWESOME. Better prep for the real thing in Sundays.

We beat the Patriots two years ago (at Reliant), final game IIRC. Did we toughen up and win that game, or did the Patriots just lay down and die for us? We need to go back and look at comments in that thread before you answer ;)

We beat the Packers at Lambeau that same season, IIRC, on what was a brutally cold and snowy day. Schaub and teammates were electric all game long. I feel our defense should have helped out more in that game, but the end result was a W for the soft guys.

Toughness is not the silver bullet here. It's shiny, it's metal, and it's a bullet. But it's not pure silver.

HoustonFrog
08-10-2011, 12:39 PM
Even if we came out and punched defenses in the nose, OUR defense would give it back to the opposing offense. You know that. I know that. No better game shows that than the opening game vs. Colts.

We also had a 4-3 defense until now, which means Schaub & Co. faced a 4-3 mindset (even if our defense TRIED to emulate a 3-4 certain practices) during practices. The players in that system, specifically the Texans secondary would make Pee Wee Herman soar in practice and come crashing down come gameday vs. a legitimate 3-4 defense. Is it any surprise that the TC reports show a defense that is dominating every day? Nope. Because Wade is throwing the same things at Schaub and the o-line as what Rex Ryan threw at us and other 3-4 gurus threw at us in the past.

Schaub & Co. are getting a new education this year. And I think that's AWESOME. Better prep for the real thing in Sundays.

We beat the Patriots two years ago (at Reliant), final game IIRC. Did we toughen up and win that game, or did the Patriots just lay down and die for us? We need to go back and look at comments in that thread before you answer ;)

We beat the Packers at Lambeau that same season, IIRC, on what was a brutally cold and snowy day. Schaub and teammates were electric all game long. I feel our defense should have helped out more in that game, but the end result was a W for the soft guys.

Toughness is not the silver bullet here. It's shiny, it's metal, and it's a bullet. But it's not pure silver.

Honestly, I'm not sure what any of this means :).

That Pats game was nothing for them. Not when you are pulling your most important players in stretches. As far as the D giving the points back...who cares? That isn't the point. The point is that the offense didn't do that and for a majority of games they come out flat and get punched instead of vice/versa. Thus the label. I mean this label isn't new and other teams/coaches have talked about it. Two-3 games over the years doesn't change that.

beerlover
08-10-2011, 01:53 PM
Here is a good podcast from LZ with Mike - http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2011/08/podcast-mike-lombardi-defends-his-comments-about-the-texans-and-bill-kollar-talks-defensive-line/

"If you want to be a physical team you've got to practice physical"

houstonspartan
08-10-2011, 02:47 PM
Even if we came out and punched defenses in the nose, OUR defense would give it back to the opposing offense. You know that. I know that. No better game shows that than the opening game vs. Colts.

We also had a 4-3 defense until now, which means Schaub & Co. faced a 4-3 mindset (even if our defense TRIED to emulate a 3-4 certain practices) during practices. The players in that system, specifically the Texans secondary would make Pee Wee Herman soar in practice and come crashing down come gameday vs. a legitimate 3-4 defense. Is it any surprise that the TC reports show a defense that is dominating every day? Nope. Because Wade is throwing the same things at Schaub and the o-line as what Rex Ryan threw at us and other 3-4 gurus threw at us in the past.

Schaub & Co. are getting a new education this year. And I think that's AWESOME. Better prep for the real thing in Sundays.

We beat the Patriots two years ago (at Reliant), final game IIRC. Did we toughen up and win that game, or did the Patriots just lay down and die for us? We need to go back and look at comments in that thread before you answer ;)

We beat the Packers at Lambeau that same season, IIRC, on what was a brutally cold and snowy day. Schaub and teammates were electric all game long. I feel our defense should have helped out more in that game, but the end result was a W for the soft guys.Toughness is not the silver bullet here. It's shiny, it's metal, and it's a bullet. But it's not pure silver.


I went up for that game. Had a blast. It was freezing as all get out, but the game was good, and Packer fans are cool as hell.

GP
08-10-2011, 03:32 PM
Honestly, I'm not sure what any of this means :).

That Pats game was nothing for them. Not when you are pulling your most important players in stretches. As far as the D giving the points back...who cares? That isn't the point. The point is that the offense didn't do that and for a majority of games they come out flat and get punched instead of vice/versa. Thus the label. I mean this label isn't new and other teams/coaches have talked about it. Two-3 games over the years doesn't change that.

Ah, yes. It's the "But THIS happened..." angle.

Just like ONLY Jacoby Jones drops the really pivotal, important passes (which means HIS drops are worse than others' drops) it was only because of several "perfect storm" situations in the Pats game that "allowed" the soft guys to win right?

This is endless. A construct of reality that fits the desired end result.

Are we going to have to go to mediation for this? I kid, I kid....

I just wonder how the Uber-Hardcore Ravens got ran the eff over to the tune of 140 rushing yards by some white guy who teleported from 1938 to 2010? Where did THEIR toughness go? Did we inherit it that week, but had to give it back to them the rest of the season? You can't gauge this Toughness factor that's being ballyhoo'd by the likes of Lombardi. It's swamp gas: You see it, but you reach out to grab it and slips through the fingers.

And you're right that "No, 2 or 3 games a year does not a pattern make..." Howevers, we have had a pretty putrid defense for the past four years that DID make a pattern, and it's that entity (the defense) that is the perpetrator of the crime that my client, Mr. Soft, is being framed for. It would be a gross miscarriage of justice to find Mr. Soft guilty of the crimes committed between the years of 2006 and 2010.

noxiousdog
08-10-2011, 04:25 PM
Rex Ryan called the Texans soft and that is how they prepared before playing them.

I have a feeling Rex Ryan calls every team except his own soft. It's a standard coaching technique.

Most hard nosed 3-4 type teams have taken it to the Texans.

By hard nosed 3-4 type teams, I assume you mean the Ravens, Steelers, and Jets.
2010
Over time loss to the Ravens
3 point loss to the jets

2009
Big loss to the Jets
Beat the Patriots

That's not exactly taking it to the Texans.

I think alot of the stigma isn't exactly "look how badass we are" but "do you start games punching a guy in the mouth and then do it for 4 quarters." When is the last time the Texans punched a team in the mouth, much less played a full 4 quarters?

This is a phrase that bothers me consistently. How, exactly, do you punch someone in the mouth, in full pads?

I mean, what exactly is the level of violence that turns it up from normal line play into a punch in the mouth?

noxiousdog
08-10-2011, 04:27 PM
That Pats game was nothing for them. Not when you are pulling your most important players in stretches.

If it wasn't important, why would they put Brady BACK in the game?

GP
08-10-2011, 05:08 PM
I have a feeling Rex Ryan calls every team except his own soft. It's a standard coaching technique.



By hard nosed 3-4 type teams, I assume you mean the Ravens, Steelers, and Jets.
2010
Over time loss to the Ravens
3 point loss to the jets

2009
Big loss to the Jets
Beat the Patriots

That's not exactly taking it to the Texans.



This is a phrase that bothers me consistently. How, exactly, do you punch someone in the mouth, in full pads?

I mean, what exactly is the level of violence that turns it up from normal line play into a punch in the mouth?

I think the Packers in 2009 (we won that game AT Lambeau) were also a 3-4 defense.

And in terms of how you could punch them in the mouth, or even begin to elevate the level of punched mouthedness, I think the equation goes something like this:

Px4=W

P = Punch in the mouth
4 = 4 quarters in length
W = Win

If you master THAT formula, it's a win. Every time. I wonder if Lombardi has access to this formula. He could become a very rich man, selling it to owners and coaches.

GP
08-10-2011, 05:09 PM
If it wasn't important, why would they put Brady BACK in the game?

Uh oh.

Double Barrel
08-10-2011, 06:44 PM
If it wasn't important, why would they put Brady BACK in the game?

If it was important, why was Brady (http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2010/01/03/patriots_lose_welker_blow_late_lead_to_texans/) taken out with 2 minutes left and the Patriots ball?

Brady started the game and started the second half. Normal protocol for teams headed to the playoffs to let their starters get into the groove of both the starts of the game and second half. Even the average football fan is aware of this common practice. Don't let your stars get rusty after you've secured a playoff spot.

The Patriots did not need that game for playoff spot or position.

DocBar
08-10-2011, 06:50 PM
This reminds me of the last one to post wins thread.

DocBar
08-10-2011, 06:54 PM
I think the Packers in 2009 (we won that game AT Lambeau) were also a 3-4 defense.

And in terms of how you could punch them in the mouth, or even begin to elevate the level of punched mouthedness, I think the equation goes something like this:

Px4=W

P = Punch in the mouth
4 = 4 quarters in length
W = Win

If you master THAT formula, it's a win. Every time. I wonder if Lombardi has access to this formula. He could become a very rich man, selling it to owners and coaches.GP, do you realize that we would have a negative yardage because of all the personal fouls we would get for punching the other team in the mouth for 4 quarters? The proper approach would be to have all of your scrubs go out in the 1st quarter, have them kick the hell out of the other teams starters. If you're gonna cheat, go all out.

GP
08-10-2011, 09:23 PM
If it was important, why was Brady (http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2010/01/03/patriots_lose_welker_blow_late_lead_to_texans/) taken out with 2 minutes left and the Patriots ball?

Brady started the game and started the second half. Normal protocol for teams headed to the playoffs to let their starters get into the groove of both the starts of the game and second half. Even the average football fan is aware of this common practice. Don't let your stars get rusty after you've secured a playoff spot.

The Patriots did not need that game for playoff spot or position.

But they still lost Welker. Why risk the injuries at all?

Don't tell me Belichick didn't try to win that game. He doesn't know how to NOT beat the hell out of someone if he can.

Belichick pulled and pushed Brady as he felt he needed to, but this still doesn't undo the fact that the Texans didn't go limp and fail to finish. A soft team would have found a way to fold in that situation.

These guys don't lay down and die. The idea put forth by Lombardi is flawed. He's acting like the Texans fold up their tent and go sit on the sideline and sulk because they are so bad and so soft. It doesn't wash. We can be upset with outcomes, but I think it's incorrect to say our guys are soft.

Austrian
08-30-2011, 12:40 PM
Sorry for bringing back that thread, but I found something interesting on NFL.com. They have a season prediction poll where from Monday through Friday their experts, among them Lombardi, give their predictions for the season and indiviual awards for 2011. As of now Lombardi picked Arian Foster for OPOY and JJ Watt for DROY. And he was the only one picking a Texan.

Jackie Chiles
08-30-2011, 12:52 PM
Sorry for bringing back that thread, but I found something interesting on NFL.com. They have a season prediction poll where from Monday through Friday their experts, among them Lombardi, give their predictions for the season and indiviual awards for 2011. As of now Lombardi picked Arian Foster for OPOY and JJ Watt for DROY. And he was the only one picking a Texan.

He does indeed:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d821ce69b/article/season-predictions-our-experts-make-their-picks?module=HP11_content_stream

But before we go forgiving him, I submit this:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d821ce176/article/xlvi-things-to-look-forward-to-this-nfl-season

Included is this little nugget: "XX. The soft Texans. I am really excited to see if the Texans can play with physical power and not lose leads in the fourth quarter. If they do, I'll remove the soft label."

Actually looks like he might be coming around and is just fanning the flames of his earlier comments.

Lucky
08-30-2011, 01:02 PM
Included is this little nugget: "XX. The soft Texans. I am really excited to see if the Texans can play with physical power and not lose leads in the fourth quarter. If they do, I'll remove the soft label."
Lombardi's already crawdadding, and it's not even Week 1.

Double Barrel
08-30-2011, 01:08 PM
We were 4-2 last season and ended up 5-7 (for the fourth year in a row). That's a soft team. Hopefully this year is different. Much, much different.

thunderkyss
08-30-2011, 01:13 PM
We were 4-2 last season and ended up 5-7 (for the fourth year in a row). That's a soft team. Hopefully this year is different. Much, much different.

You're saying we should start 5-1 then end up 5-7?

Double Barrel
08-30-2011, 01:17 PM
You're saying we should start 5-1 then end up 5-7?

I'm not saying anything other than what is written on the page.

We should have been better than 5-7 last year when we started 4-2. But, we weren't and that is what it is.

I can comprehend why national media perceives our team as soft and/or unable to finish games.

It doesn't mean that I like it or agree with it, but I can understand their perceptions.

Which is why I don't get butthurt when some doofus like Lombardi doesn't shower us with love.

thunderkyss
08-30-2011, 01:24 PM
I'm not saying anything other than what is written on the page.

We should have been better than 5-7 last year when we started 4-2. But, we weren't and that is what it is.

I can comprehend why national media perceives our team as soft and/or unable to finish games.

It doesn't mean that I like it or agree with it, but I can understand their perceptions.

Which is why I don't get butthurt when some doofus like Lombardi doesn't shower us with love.

Hey... hey.... I agree, we're soft until proven otherwise.

I should have put the little kitty after my last post.
I was just play'n

:kitten:

The1ApplePie
08-30-2011, 01:25 PM
The media has anointed the Texans as a playoff team the past few years, only to have them collapse and give up. I can see why plenty of media types have gotten tired of doing it.

It is up to the Texans to prove them wrong and I think they will

drs23
08-30-2011, 02:02 PM
We were 4-2 last season and ended up 5-7 (for the fourth year in a row). That's a soft team. Hopefully this year is different. Much, much different.

I'm looking forward to Dex's running tally sheet for the first 12 games. I'm in the "it'll look alot different this year" camp.

Go Texans!

Thorn
08-30-2011, 04:53 PM
The Texans nay-sayers in here have only been proven right year in and year out. I hope last year was their (and mine as well) swan song, because I'm as tired of it as anyone.

I want the Texans to kick ass for a change. We've been waiting long enough.

Double Barrel
08-30-2011, 04:58 PM
Hey... hey.... I agree, we're soft until proven otherwise.

I should have put the little kitty after my last post.
I was just play'n

:kitten:

It's all good, man. :)

The media has anointed the Texans as a playoff team the past few years, only to have them collapse and give up. I can see why plenty of media types have gotten tired of doing it.

It is up to the Texans to prove them wrong and I think they will

yep. QFT. I like hearing the Texans picked, but part of me wishes they were not given any of it because they should earn it.

I'm looking forward to Dex's running tally sheet for the first 12 games. I'm in the "it'll look alot different this year" camp.

Go Texans!

Man, I hope I don't see 5-7 for a long, long time!!!

The Texans nay-sayers in here have only been proven right year in and year out. I hope last year was their (and mine as well) swan song, because I'm as tired of it as anyone.

I want the Texans to kick ass for a change. We've been waiting long enough.

No doubt, man. A decade of this crap and 18 years of no playoffs can sure take it out of a football fan!

That being said, this is the year that it finally happens.

drs23
08-30-2011, 06:47 PM
It's all good, man. :)



yep. QFT. I like hearing the Texans picked, but part of me wishes they were not given any of it because they should earn it.



Man, I hope I don't see 5-7 for a long, long time!!!



No doubt, man. A decade of this crap and 18 years of no playoffs can sure take it out of a football fan!

That being said, this is the year that it finally happens.

DB, that I hope, is an indicator of this season. I've been somewhat surprised by the positive comments by yourself and "a few" others. I can only hope we're all correct in boarding this vessel one more time.

Hope that made sense. :)

Double Barrel
08-30-2011, 08:01 PM
DB, that I hope, is an indicator of this season. I've been somewhat surprised by the positive comments by yourself and "a few" others. I can only hope we're all correct in boarding this vessel one more time.

Hope that made sense. :)

yep, it makes sense, man. I'm a cynic, but I'm still taking that annual leap of faith that this is The Year.

And honestly, that leap is a little easier this year with Wade and seeing what he's already doing with the defense. I LOVE watching a good defense, and the thought of our D being feared and revered around the league just make me rabid!

drs23
08-31-2011, 10:50 AM
yep, it makes sense, man. I'm a cynic, but I'm still taking that annual leap of faith that this is The Year.

And honestly, that leap is a little easier this year with Wade and seeing what he's already doing with the defense. I LOVE watching a good defense, and the thought of our D being feared and revered around the league just make me rabid!

I agree verbatim. I've got the Kool-Aid on ice.

REP

HOU-TEX
08-31-2011, 11:06 AM
yep, it makes sense, man. I'm a cynic, but I'm still taking that annual leap of faith that this is The Year.

And honestly, that leap is a little easier this year with Wade and seeing what he's already doing with the defense. I LOVE watching a good defense, and the thought of our D being feared and revered around the league just make me rabid!

Me too! Love me some D! Which is why I watch SEC games over Big 12 all the time.

I'm still a bit reluctant to take that leap of faith. I've done it year in and year out. The only thing I've gained from it is a broken heart and a bit of resentment.

El Tejano
08-31-2011, 12:01 PM
Lombardi is just trying to get us back on board with his blogs.

Double Barrel
08-31-2011, 02:22 PM
Lombardi is just trying to get us back on board with his blogs.

Like a lot of media figures, he talks out of both sides of his mouth.

So if the Texans fail this season, he can point to July 2011 and say "see, I said they were soft!".

And if the Texas are successful, he can point to late August 2011 and say "see, I knew they'd be the team to beat!".

HTown2ATX
08-31-2011, 02:34 PM
Did he say more recently?

Was surprised to see this thread still breathing and am genuinely asking if he said anything else.

The guy is a friggin tool bag. anyhow Texans comments aside. He just always irritates me for some reason.

drs23
08-31-2011, 02:56 PM
Did he say more recently?

Was surprised to see this thread still breathing and am genuinely asking if he said anything else.

The guy is a friggin tool bag. anyhow Texans comments aside. He just always irritates me for some reason.

^^^^ +1 (at least) That tool gives me a rash but I will change my tune when our guys play to their potential and he HAS to give us the props we'll deserve. He'll still be a forked-tounged tool though.

HTown2ATX
09-01-2011, 04:40 PM
Looks like he thinks we will make AFC Wildcard....

And he picked JJ Watt as D ROY

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d821ce69b/article/season-predictions-our-experts-make-their-picks?campaign=Ext_Email_NL0901

michaelm
09-01-2011, 04:52 PM
Looks like he thinks we will make AFC Wildcard....

And he picked JJ Watt as D ROY

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d821ce69b/article/season-predictions-our-experts-make-their-picks?campaign=Ext_Email_NL0901

That's all well and good, but honestly I didn't give a rats ass when he said something negative about us, and I don't really care that he says something positive now, either.

(I realize that it's hard to gauge the tone of my comments via text, so I wanted to say that this is not a slam against anything you said. I'm just spring-boarding off your post. Didn't want you to think I was being a jackass to you...)


-

steelbtexan
09-01-2011, 05:40 PM
The Texans nay-sayers in here have only been proven right year in and year out. I hope last year was their (and mine as well) swan song, because I'm as tired of it as anyone.

I want the Texans to kick ass for a change. We've been waiting long enough.

I've been one of the biggest naysayers.

This yr has a different feel to it. They appear to be playing with alot more sense of urgency. Apparently this has alot to do with Rick and Garys jobs being on the line. As well as Wades hiring seems to have helped raise the overall intensity of the team. What this means record wise will probably be somewhere between 8-8 and 10-6. IMHO This takes into account the 1-2 games Gary screws up.

The question that needs to be answers is if Gary and Rick finish 8-8,9-7 and fails to make the playoffs, does BoBBy finally fire them and their mediocrity?

DocBar
09-01-2011, 07:31 PM
The Texans nay-sayers in here have only been proven right year in and year out. I hope last year was their (and mine as well) swan song, because I'm as tired of it as anyone.

I want the Texans to kick ass for a change. We've been waiting long enough.I do the annual roller coaster. Way up in pre season, way down during most of the season, way up at the end of the season cuz we "finished strong" and had "momentum". This year, maybe we actually ride some of that finishing momentum deep into the playoffs. A tsunami of steel blue and battle red.

Allstar
09-05-2011, 06:23 PM
evansilva Evan Silva
NFL Network's Mike Lombardi says #Titans are new favorites to win AFC South. Calls them the "most complete" team in the division.

drunkcookie
09-05-2011, 06:57 PM
evansilva Evan Silva
NFL Network's Mike Lombardi says #Titans are new favorites to win AFC South. Calls them the "most complete" team in the division.

Yah, just watched his back and forth on the NFL network about the subject and others... Said he believes in the Texans when he sees it... can't disagree with him there...

DocBar
09-05-2011, 07:06 PM
Yah, just watched his back and forth on the NFL network about the subject and others... Said he believes in the Texans when he sees it... can't disagree with him there...Sad but true. As TK would say, in a very slow and tedious manner, winning cures everything.
:bubbles:

Norg
09-05-2011, 07:08 PM
today on NFLN he said the titans were going to win the divison i was like what !!!!! yeah there a good young team with """some"""" good players but if your going on paper i think the JAGS look a bit better

and was all praising Hassleback man that fool aint going to stay healthy past WK 4 IMO

Norg
09-05-2011, 07:13 PM
yeah and ill beleive it when i see it with the titans most of the vets that were there during there that year they made it has a wc and got bounced by the Redskins are gone

they were 6-10 last year has well and couldnt finish games

or more like getting beat by more then 9+ points by teams like CHargers Miami Cheifs and getting Zero points vs the texans

drunkcookie
09-05-2011, 07:14 PM
today on NFLN he said the titans were going to win the divison i was like what !!!!! yeah there a good young team with """some"""" good players but if your going on paper i think the JAGS look a bit better

and was all praising Hassleback man that fool aint going to stay healthy past WK 4 IMO

Well I think people have been down on both the Titans and the Jags a little too much this year... I think both are average teams, which could mean 9-7, which isn't as bad as you hear on sports radio in Houston... I guess it could mean 7-9 as well, which I won't complain about... but I'm not expecting 5-11s for them this year...

The factor most aren't thinking about with the Titans this year is the whole "New HC Factor"... though the guy's been around the place for some time, he is fresh as the DC and the stale HC is now out... kind of a breath of fresh air effect that may loosen up the team...

I'll still pick the Texans to take the division, just think both the Tits and the Jags are being sold a tad low... we will see...

CloakNNNdagger
09-05-2011, 07:14 PM
evansilva Evan Silva
NFL Network's Mike Lombardi says #Titans are new favorites to win AFC South. Calls them the "most complete" team in the division.


I rather like being the "underdog" in a situation like this.

jaayteetx
09-05-2011, 07:16 PM
I rather like being the "underdog" in a situation like this.

Be interesting to see what Vegas says, I think I would value their collective opinions a little bit more.

DocBar
09-05-2011, 07:33 PM
Be interesting to see what Vegas says, I think I would value their collective opinions a little bit more.Here ya go. (http://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/futures/). Not exactly what you were looking for.

Pantherstang84
09-05-2011, 07:40 PM
Here ya go. (http://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/futures/). Not exactly what you were looking for.

I am not a gambler per say so I'm not sure I ever read these odds correctly. If I am reading these right, they show Houston to be a 8.5 to 9 point favorite depending on the betting house?

Corrosion
09-05-2011, 07:46 PM
evansilva Evan Silva
NFL Network's Mike Lombardi says #Titans are new favorites to win AFC South. Calls them the "most complete" team in the division.


I saw this mess earlier today and thought it .... stupid to be honest.

With or without Peyton , the Dolts are probably still a better team than Tenn.
Houston and Jax both improved while I think Tenn took a step back.

Hell I wonder if the Trailer Park Trash Boys win more than one game in the division ....

DocBar
09-05-2011, 07:47 PM
I am not a gambler persay so I'm not sure I ever read these odds correctly. If I am reading these right, they show Houston to be a 8.5 to 9 point favorite depending on the betting house?The one I looked at showed the Texans as 8.5 pt favorites and the over/under at 47.5

Pantherstang84
09-05-2011, 07:50 PM
The one I looked at showed the Texans as 8.5 pt favorites and the over/under at 47.5

So I am reading them right. Only one other game has a spread that big. San Diego is an 8.5 point favorite over Minn. These things will change over the next 6 days as the wagers come pouring in.

ObsiWan
09-05-2011, 07:53 PM
I rather like being the "underdog" in a situation like this.

Yeah, whut he said.

And asterisks be damned.

Austrian
09-05-2011, 07:54 PM
Meh he probably thought he had the most complete team in the AFC West when he was GM with the Raiders in the mid 2000s. Still it could happen and I can't get my confidence up too much because deep down I have the feeling that the Texans will disappoint me again. :roast:

Ryan
09-05-2011, 08:23 PM
I wonder what "innovative" ways Chris Palmer comes up with to use Chris Johnson. He may line him up at TE. And with Frank Bush on the staff you know their linebackers will probably be a joke. I don't know how anyone can call the Titans complete when there's question marks at every position outside of RB1.

Ryan
09-05-2011, 08:24 PM
I am not a gambler per say so I'm not sure I ever read these odds correctly. If I am reading these right, they show Houston to be a 8.5 to 9 point favorite depending on the betting house?


They were just 1.5 point favorites yesterday before that Manning info leaked.

CloakNNNdagger
09-05-2011, 08:26 PM
I saw this mess earlier today and thought it .... stupid to be honest.

With or without Peyton , the Dolts are probably still a better team than Tenn.
Houston and Jax both improved while I think Tenn took a step back.

Hell I wonder if the Trailer Park Trash Boys win more than one game in the division ....

I'll see your one tooth........and raise you one..........:kitten:

fiasco west
09-05-2011, 08:29 PM
yeah and ill beleive it when i see it with the titans most of the vets that were there during there that year they made it has a wc and got bounced by the Redskins are gone

they were 6-10 last year has well and couldnt finish games

or more like getting beat by more then 9+ points by teams like CHargers Miami Cheifs and getting Zero points vs the texans

Exactly. Can't you say that about most teams? "I'll believe it when I see it."

That's why the games are played. Sounds like the guy just doesn't like the Texans this year and will refuse to pick them.

Titans most complete team in the division? Come now, I guess that's why Lombardi is talking about teams instead of building them now.

Pantherstang84
09-05-2011, 08:31 PM
They were just 1.5 point favorites yesterday before that Manning info leaked.

I expect the gap to tighten up over the week. Once all the Colts fans call in to take the points and the money goes heavy there, the gap will narrow.

Playoffs
09-05-2011, 09:07 PM
9/11 1:00 ET At Houston -8.5 Indianapolis 43

ObsiWan
09-05-2011, 09:15 PM
9/11 1:00 ET At Houston -8.5 Indianapolis 43

Got a link or site name?

Pantherstang84
09-05-2011, 10:08 PM
Got a link or site name?

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/las-vegas/

thunderkyss
09-06-2011, 10:17 AM
9/11 1:00 ET At Houston -8.5 Indianapolis 43

I'm not a gambler...

does this mean they pick Houston to win by 8.5 points?

Showtime100
09-06-2011, 10:24 AM
I'm not a gambler...

does this mean they pick Houston to win by 8.5 points?

I'm not either but it has to be. No way Houston would be 8.5 dogs at home with Indy's uncertainties.

That, and a few posters on a previous page said as you supposed, that Houston is the favorite. :)

TejasTom
09-06-2011, 11:31 AM
He is on 790 right now defending his Titan's pick.

Texan_Bill
09-06-2011, 11:34 AM
Lombardi being blasted on Twitter.

The Pencil Neck
09-06-2011, 11:36 AM
I'm not a gambler...

does this mean they pick Houston to win by 8.5 points?

Yes.

What that means is that they're expecting the Texans to win by 8.5 points. And the total points to be scored is 43.

Doing the math, that means they expect a score like 25.75 to 17.25, or with rounding 26 to 17.

BigBull17
09-06-2011, 11:45 AM
it's funny he says we are soft because of ZBS, yet picked Washington to win NFC East. They have a worse running back, offensive line, receiving core, and QB than us and run the exact same offense. He is a hack who is mad we didn't give him a job.

DX-TEX
09-06-2011, 11:57 AM
Lombardi being blasted on Twitter.

He has Philly fans in an uproar as well.

beerlover
09-06-2011, 11:59 AM
All you have to do is prove yourself first to Lombardi to win his approval, he bases his opinion on facts, for the most part. Texans have let down the media as well as its fans for several years so now its put up or shut-up, nothing more nothing less. :barman: