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GP
08-06-2011, 12:36 PM
Should be a lot of stuff in here (http://texans.studiotigaapps.net/1617.aspx), apologies if this has been posted already...

Houston Texans Transcripts
Training Camp Practice #11 (Morning)
Saturday, August 6, 2011
(Transcribed by Brett Maikowski, Brittany McCray and Jeremy Joseph)

Head Coach Gary Kubiak
TE Owen Daniels
RB Arian Foster
S Glover Quin
DE Antonio Smith

[B]Head Coach Gary Kubiak
(on how it felt to be out there with the fans) "It helps practice. It helps a great deal because obviously training camp is a grind and to get everybody out here, I think gets the players' juices flowing. I thought that was our best practice of the year as a football team. Good, glad to see them all out here."

(on how far along the players who started camp on Thursday are) "I think they're still a little behind the other guys. Their bodies are probably hurting a little bit more right now as they catch up, but I think as we get at it tomorrow morning, I'll give them a big break. I think by the time we get going again next week, we ought to all be about on the same page."

(on if he's happy with the team's performance after a week) "No, I wish we were a lot further along, but I know the process. I know the time we missed, but with what time we've had, we've had some really good work. I think, defensively, the progression has been excellent. I think they've practiced very well. I think, offensively, we're behind right now. We're missing some guys. We don't have Andre (Johnson) at practice. Arian (Foster) doesn't practice. This game's not easy. You got to be out there for us to get better. We need to get those guys healthy and back on the field, but we will get better through the problems too because younger guys are stepping up making plays."

(on the status of WR Andre Johnson and RB Arian Foster) "I think Andre (Johnson) could practice tomorrow. We'll see. I think Arian's (Foster) definitely going to miss a few days. I think he'll be day-to-day, but he won't be back before we come back from our break after tomorrow."

(on when ILB Brian Cushing will be back practicing) "Cush (Brian Cushing), we have a goal for him; the middle of next week. We'll see if it holds. That's what we're pushing to."

(on if RB Derrick Ward is sick) "Derrick's (Ward) just gassed. Derrick's taken a lot carries and he's just gassed. I tell you what, our three running backs practiced an hour and a half by themselves. It was impressive. Really good."

(on if it's the numbers game being out in the heat during training camp) "I think that's kind of training camp. It kind of goes on, but the fact that Arian (Foster) hasn't been a part of practice the whole time, that's not unusual for one of your backs to get worn out. It's exciting because I watched (Steve) Slaton practice today. Steve's practicing well. (Chris) Ogbonnaya is really making a push to make this team and to me, (Ben) Tate, that's as good as Tate has practiced around here. Our guys need to know that and I told them hey, we've got problems, whoever lines up at running back for us is going to play good and they did that today."

(on if anyone stuck out to him today) "I would say it's a team deal this morning because we put them through a good one. We pushed them. We asked them to give their best at the end of practice. I liked the attention to detail. I just think it was a good overall practice."

(on if he thinks about being only nine days away from playing a game) "That's the scary part. Don't remind me of that. That's unusual. I think it's one of the toughest decisions we're going to have to make as compared to other years about this time next week is who's ready to go play. Do we have some guys that aren't ready to step on the field yet? That'll be a little different than it has been in years past."

(on if not knowing who will be ready to play is going to dictate how much the starters play) "It could. It also could be on an individual basis. It's a tough decision to make for us as coaches, but there's a lot more things to put into it than there have been in the past. We'll wait and see. I can let you guys know more at the end of next week."

TE Owen Daniels
(on re-signing with the Texans in March) "It's just because it's a business and you see guys change teams where you never thought they ever would. It's just the unknown. I always tried to say to myself, if I could stay here I would. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. I've learned that in terms of moving to a different city, playing for another team, another coach. There's a lot of changes, a lot of unknowns there. I'm really comfortable playing in this offense with this team. I want to see it through. I want to help us get to where this franchise has never gotten before. That will weigh heavily in my decision."

(on if being a showcase player in this offense would be automatic) "I've had a lot of opportunities to make plays in the past. Tight ends are a big part of this offense, whether we're running one tight end, two tight ends, three tight ends at times, very tight-end friendly. I saw no point in going somewhere else where it might not be featured as much. I fit in well here. I have a great relationship with the quarterback and saw no reason to leave."

(on if he likes being in camp this year working) "Yeah, man, it's way better than being by myself working with the trainer and sitting around and watching. That's no fun. That's not what football players like to do. As much as camp is a grind, it's something that is necessary to a point. I think you'll see a lot more; I'll be a lot more consistent in the beginning of this year than I was last year just in terms of how I am physically and being really able to get this work in during camp."

(if there's a mental aspect of camp he needs) "Mentally it's always good to knock the rust off and refresh myself with the offense. It's good for everybody. I was able to do that in meetings last year. That wasn't anything that I missed. It was more the get-in-football-shape, knocking-rust-off-of-the-football-fundamentals. I'm able to do that now and feeling really good."

RB Arian Foster
(on if he is in a precautionary mode with his hamstring injury) "I think anytime you have a hamstring injury, you have to rest it. That's the only thing that can heal it. So that's what we're doing right now."

(on if he is worried about his hamstring injury) "No."

(on if he had a little too much energy or pent-up adrenaline when he injured his hamstring) "Probably. I probably was going a little bit too hard, feeling good being back on the first day, but that's part of life, so you have to roll with it."

(on his initial reaction when he realized he tweaked his hamstring) "I tweaked my hamstring."

(on head coach Gary Kubiak's comment that he has problems with his hamstring in the past) "Well, I popped my hamstring in the Senior Bowl and then I had tweaked in training camp my rookie year."

(on how long it took him to feel good the last time he tweaked his hamstring) "About a week."

(on if his last hamstring injury was on the same leg) "I can't even remember, actually. I think it might have been the other one."

(on if a hamstring injury is frightening for a running back) "No. Knee injuries are frightening. Hamstrings are part of the business."

(on what he can do to work his way back to health with his injury) "Rest. Lightly stretch it with a little bit of ice."

(on what he can gain from watching practice instead of participating) "You just get to sharpen your skills mentally. You get to see the plays before they're ran, so you see them. You just go over your assignment and get more detailed mentally."

(on if there is a part of him that wants to prove that his performance last year wasn't a fluke) "No. I'm not trying to prove anybody wrong. I'm trying to play the game of football. I can't go around trying to prove everybody right, or wrong."

(on if the media can expect to see 1,400- and 1,500-yard performances from him every year) "You can expect whatever you want. I'm just going to go play the game."

(on if he just goes out with the mindset to run to daylight) "Yeah. You can't worry about what people think. People are negative. People are dream-killers. You can't worry about what they think."

(on what he's seen from FB Lawrence Vickers since he joined the team) "Well, he's still learning the system and things like that but I'm more than confident he'll come along and be a valuable option for us."

(on his level of concern about his hamstring injury) "It's just a hamstring. It's a muscle, a soft-tissue injury that will heal, eventually."

(on how frustrating it is to pull his hamstring) "You want to be out here practicing with you teammates. It gets a little frustrating."

S Glover Quin
(on differences switching from cornerback to safety) "Just reads, because as a corner you're pretty much playing your receiver. As a safety you have to play tight ends, you have to read run game, you have to read pass game, you have to cover bigger bodies. It is getting your eyes right and making your reads quicker."

(on what he talks to S Danieal Manning about) "We just talk about a lot of stuff. Just football and things we want to do, things we like to do, and just how we can get better and work with each other. We just have good dialogue with each other and make it work."

(how CB Kareem Jackson has looked so far) "Great. He looks more focused to me this year. He looks better. He's in shape. He looks ready to go."

(on if CB Johnathan Joseph has set a tone with the defensive backs) "I mean, I think we're all setting a tone with each other. We have a good group of guys and we're all competing with each other and we're all battling. We're just pushing each other and pumping each other up and we're having fun."

DE Antonio Smith
(on DE J.J. Watt) "He works hard, he's a dog. He's got some quickness, he's got some power, he plays with leverage, good hands and he's got some of the raw talents that you would need to be a great defensive lineman in this game."

(on the things he's teaching DE J.J. Watt) "Technique stuff, little cheat stuff that you can do to help your game out. That has been about the extent of my teaching, the things I have picked up through the years that I can give to him."

(on if DE J.J. Watt has been receiving the rookie treatment) "Not as much; a little bit. He can carry a couple of pads but I don't see him with no pads right now, so he's slacking."

The Pencil Neck
08-06-2011, 02:48 PM
So, in the Training Camp Pictures, did I see Brandon Harris coming TWICE on CB blitzes and getting to the QB before the ball was out?

Rey
08-06-2011, 03:04 PM
BigRon
@BigRon281
And @JJWatt with nearly the second T/O on a batdown of Schaub and near INT of his own.

More pass deflections this year, jj watts or kjax?

JJ watts batting down passes will be huge for us this year IMO. That is a skill that he is very good at.

I expect him to catch at least one int, and cause three more.

Honoring Earl 34
08-06-2011, 03:08 PM
More pass deflections this year, jj watts or kjax?

JJ watts batting down passes will be huge for us this year IMO. That is a skill that he is very good at.

I expect him to catch at least one int, and cause three more.

JJ has size 11 hands , he shouls swap with Jacoby .

Texans_Chick
08-06-2011, 04:15 PM
Both Steph (TexansChick) and AJ mentioned BigRon in tweets earlier today, and recommended following him.
I'll take that as a good endorsement that BigRon is a quality source of info.

Ron is solid guy but I wouldn't agree with his assessment of Kareem Jackson from what I saw. Too early.

Texans_Chick
08-06-2011, 04:17 PM
Is there any merit to the rumor of Foster reporting to camp overweight and out of shape? Apparently my dad heard it on 610 but i've seen nothing to back that. And that's also apparently according to McLame so i think i've answered my own question.

I didn't see that or hear that. When he was going, he looked good on Friday.

McClain wasn't there on Friday. He was in Canton.

Texans_Chick
08-06-2011, 04:23 PM
More links on camp. AJ has good advice to people attending:

From AJ Burge on this morning: http://www.examiner.com/houston-texans-in-houston/training-camp-day-6-texans-fans-pack-training-facility

From me on yesterday AM: http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/2011/08/fridays-texans-training-camp-its-all-about-finishing/

Texans_Chick
08-06-2011, 04:24 PM
More pass deflections this year, jj watts or kjax?

JJ watts batting down passes will be huge for us this year IMO. That is a skill that he is very good at.

I expect him to catch at least one int, and cause three more.

Batted down a pass on Friday too. Lots of effort. Working on staying off the ground but more often than not, doing good things, getting in the backfield.

Wolf
08-06-2011, 05:00 PM
Training camp Day 6: Texans fans pack training facility
Alan Burge, Houston Texans Examiner


Training camp Day 6 for the Texans was Day 1 for fans attending the first open practice of the season at Methodist Training Center.

Gates opened a half-hour earlier than the advertised 7:00 a.m., because - as I was told - the Reliant Park people didn't want a long line of Texans fans on one side of Kirby mixing it up with Gov. Rick Perry non-fans who assembled on the stadium side of the street to protest Perry's prayer event.

One important note for fans attending training camp practice. Unlike past years, they are scanning the barcode on your ticket so if you made multiple copies of the same ticket or forwarded your pdf to someone else to print out, there's a chance it might not work.

The major disappointment of the day was the new bleacher configuration on the sideline. The Texans moved the VIP/sponsor tents from the south endzone area of the field to the prime mid-field sideline, pushing the fans to the redzones at each end.

The VIP/sponsor tent stretches from around the 35 yard line on the north end to around the 20 yard line on the south end. The bleachers are split into two sections, one at each end of the VIP tent.

The south sideline bleachers are smaller than those on the north sideline - so there's more seating in the north section. A major issue is that if you're seated in the south bleachers, the VIP tent obstructs the view of half the field. If you're in the north bleachers you have to slide down to about the 25 yard line to be able to see the entire field.

You could hear the fans in the south end letting out a sarcastic cheer when the team finally made their way to that end halfway through practice. Otherwise they could only guess what was going on down on the north end.

So basically your choices now, if you're a fan and not one of the beautiful people and members of "Houston Society" as the sign says at the entrance of the VIP tent, are redzone bleachers - in some cases with obstructed views, or stand 10 deep in the endzone in Africa heat.

I'm not sure who was in charge of that re-arrangement but they get a fail from me.

Random observations from the football side of things:
TJ Yates (#13), Jeff Maehl (#15) and Lestar Jean (#18) were among the first on the field today

and lots more
http://www.examiner.com/houston-texans-in-houston/training-camp-day-6-texans-fans-pack-training-facility

Lucky
08-06-2011, 05:05 PM
Just some notes from things I saw this morning in practice. Remember, it's just one practice and one guy's opinion:

1st team defense (No Cush):

SOLB: Barwin
LDE: Watts
NT: Cody
RDE: Smith
SILB: Sharpton
WILB: Ryans
WOLB: Mario
LCB: Kareem
RCB: Joseph
SS: Quin
FS: Manning

2nd team defense

SOLB: Nading
LDE: Lewis
NT: Mitchell
RDE: Jamison
SILB: Ozougwu
WILB: Adibi
WOLB: Reed
LCB: McCain
RCB: Allen
SS: Demps
FS: Nolan

D-Line - Got pushed around quite a bit in the run game, but got good penetration on pass rush. Mixed bag, I guess. Watt deflected a pass early. Bulman and Jamison looked pretty good at times. Both are a little undersized, but may be good fits in Wade's upfield scheme.

LB - Mario ran himself out of a lot of run plays. Does he have the instincts to play the position? That's going to be the key. The ILBs got pushed around as a group, though Cheta looks like a load when he reads the play correctly. But, he got beat twice in coverage. Reed looks smaller than the other OLBs.

DB - Not a bad day from Jackson, really. Nothing spectacular, good or bad. Joseph looked a little rusty, but has very good recovery speed. Love how Harris breaks on the ball. McManis looked solid, as well.
Didn't notice the safeties much, except they were late supporting the run. That may be by design.

QBs - Schaub was Schaub. Holding the ball too long at times, but mainly making accurate passes. Read a corner blitz perfectly and hit the open man. I'm much more comfortable with Leinart than Orlovsky as the backup. Leinart isn't going to win the game for you, but he's a good manager. Yates looks to have a strong arm and good feet. But, he's as lost as you would expect a guy with a week's worth of practices.

RBs - Ward took a few snaps, nothing special. Slaton looked quick. Chris O. looked like a very solid slasher. But, the star was definitely Ben Tate. It's not an overstatement to say he was the dominant force on the field. No one was really interested in tackling Ben. Tate also made a nice over the shoulder catch. It was his day. Casey looked solid as a blocker, but more technical than punishing. Vickers looked a little lost in the passing game.

WRs - Nothing special. Townsel looked quick coming out of his breaks and got open against Joseph late in the practice. Toliver found a seam in the zone and picked up a nice gain in the 2 minute drill. Looks the part of a WCO receiver.

TEs - Daniels and Dreessen seemed to get open at will. They just know this offense, and I expect to see more 2 TE formations this season. Maybe the most overlooked aspect of this team?

OL - Sprang some big holes, but missed some blitz pickups, as well. Going against a 3-4 defense is going to help this line in the long run. Caldwell running 1st team over Brisiel? Something to look for tomorrow.

Overall, kind a weird practice. Have you ever been to a practice where no one scores a TD? Didn't see one today. A lot of instruction and not a lot of big plays. Of course, without AJ, Arian, and Cush, there was not a lot of star power. Still, it was football and I was glad to be there. :)

GP
08-06-2011, 05:10 PM
Rep to Lucky for the recap.

I liked how you mentioned our offense might benefit from having to face a 3-4 look in practices. Nice job.

Lucky
08-06-2011, 05:15 PM
I liked how you mentioned our offense might benefit from having to face a 3-4 look in practices.
I think facing the same 4-3 look every camp was a detriment to the offense. It should help them going against a Phillips coached defense, rather than the Richard Smith defense they saw the previous 5 camps. And while Frank Bush tweaked Smith's 4-3, it was still Smith's defense.

ToroTimes
08-06-2011, 06:29 PM
Just seen this on twitter. It's a link to Notes on what NFL Scout Jayson Braddock has seen over the past week at Houston Texans Training Camp http://bit.ly/qc6gUh

Good details for anyone who's hungry for any & all TC info

GP
08-06-2011, 06:43 PM
I think facing the same 4-3 look every camp was a detriment to the offense. It should help them going against a Phillips coached defense, rather than the Richard Smith defense they saw the previous 5 camps. And while Frank Bush tweaked Smith's 4-3, it was still Smith's defense.

I had hopes that Frank Bush was going to diversify the Richard Smith 4-3 defense, but it never came. And our offense was practicing against a crappy 4-3 defense.

More QUALITY competition for both sides should, in theory, help both sides to sharpen their skill sets. Hell, just Joseph and Manning ALONE should make the QB and WRs step up their game.

I think we all wondered if Wade was going to truly have to perform with what we had on the roster last year, or if the free agency route would be used more than what we anticipated.

I am taking flak right now, for supposedly becoming a Sunshine Club member, but I have to call 'em like I see 'em...and what I see is that Wade Phillips is not being given crap to work with. He's got the tools he needs to build the defense he can build, and for that I have to say that I am the most excited about Texans football since I had been when Kubiak was here his first year.

It's that feeling of being given a new lease on life, and it's not a rationalized, self-medicated "I'm alright, you're alright!" type of feeling. It's a vibe of thinking that this defense shed a lot of dead weight and traded in a lot of parts for better and smarter pieces.

If Wade can do for the defense what Kubiak did for the offense, there's no reason this team can't become a lot better (in a hurry, too).

ObsiWan
08-06-2011, 07:30 PM
Just seen this on twitter. It's a link to Notes on what NFL Scout Jayson Braddock has seen over the past week at Houston Texans Training Camp http://bit.ly/qc6gUh

Good details for anyone who's hungry for any & all TC info

In this off-season Wade Phillips said that his 3-4 defense closely resembled a 4-3 defense and then later said that it has a 5-2 feel to it. I thought he was just playing coy and trying to throw opponents off the Texans path. That’s not the case. While the Texans have been known for one of the most vanilla defenses over the years, this will be a culture shock for fans and opponents alike. Phillips’ defense is a 3-4 base but at times becomes a 4-3 or a 5-2 as he said it would. I’ve seen alignments with Tim Bulman and Damione Lewis at defensive ends with Earl Mitchell at the nose. Mario Williams and Connor Barwin were up on the line with Brian Cushing and Ryans at the inside linebackers position. Then a switch that would have JJ Watt at defensive end with Tim Bulman and Antonio Smith at the nose with Mario playing with his hand down next to Bulman, while Barwin was lined up behind Watt next to Cushing and Ryans. There were so many different looks and alignments that it was amazing to watch.
Those alignments with Cushing participating must have been during the afternoon sessions. I thought Cushing wasn't due to go full speed until mid-next week...?

It is encouraging to see that Wade has that many flavors to his front alignment; that should drive opposing offenses nuts.

JimBaker488
08-06-2011, 08:07 PM
Anybody know if they are going pads tomorrow, or wearing shorts ?

Lucky
08-06-2011, 09:16 PM
I am taking flak right now, for supposedly becoming a Sunshine Club member...
Look, everyone wants to be in the Sunshine Club. steelbtexan, houstonspartan, even Second Honeymoon. It's just that the Texans won't let us in. They keep doing stupid crap that we know won't work, then expect us to buy into it. I want to go into the season with a clear, unblemished outlook. But, it's tough when you look out on the field and see some of the same coaches and players that are responsible for so much suckitude.

gary
08-06-2011, 09:24 PM
I was out there but I will report tomorrow because I have been out all day. Besides that I mostly just sat there and looked at the back of heads which was difficult me and not fun. It was crowed and rather humid and I got some autographs in the line but people were jumping over me like a herd of sheep or cows to get to see the players as they were exiting the field after practice. Oy.

Kimmy
08-06-2011, 09:50 PM
look, everyone wants to be in the sunshine club. Steelbtexan, houstonspartan, even second honeymoon. It's just that the texans won't let us in. They keep doing stupid crap that we know won't work, then expect us to buy into it. I want to go into the season with a clear, unblemished outlook. But, it's tough when you look out on the field and see some of the same coaches and players that are responsible for so much suckitude.

preach!!!

ObsiWan
08-07-2011, 04:34 AM
So, in the Training Camp Pictures, did I see Brandon Harris coming TWICE on CB blitzes and getting to the QB before the ball was out?

I saw a couple where McCain (#21) got in on a blitz; can't find the ones you speak of...
http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-06-TrainingCamp/Photos/thumbs/DSC_0278.JPG (http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-06-TrainingCamp/Photos/DSC_0278.JPG) http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-06-TrainingCamp/Photos/thumbs/DSC_0279.JPG (http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-06-TrainingCamp/Photos/DSC_0279.JPG) http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-06-TrainingCamp/Photos/thumbs/DSC_0280.JPG (http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-06-TrainingCamp/Photos/DSC_0280.JPG)

Lucky
08-07-2011, 05:14 AM
I saw a couple where McCain (#21) got in on a blitz;
Nice job on showing that series in a single post with the smaller images. You need to show 76Texan your technique. :)

Which reminds me of something I thought about at the practice: Why don't the Texans QBs wear red jerseys? I know they're on the "no touch" list. Are they just assuming the defenders will remember not to hit the QB? Or is it because they know the defense is "soft" and would never hit the QB? Is there another NFL team that doesn't put "no touch" practice jerseys on their QBs?

pbat488
08-07-2011, 08:20 AM
Which reminds me of something I thought about at the practice: Why don't the Texans QBs wear red jerseys? I know they're on the "no touch" list. Are they just assuming the defenders will remember not to hit the QB? Or is it because they know the defense is "soft" and would never hit the QB? Is there another NFL team that doesn't put "no touch" practice jerseys on their QB?

apparently the jaguars with garrard...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6835082/jacksonville-jaguars-david-garrard-leaves-practice-apparently-hurt

CloakNNNdagger
08-07-2011, 09:27 AM
apparently the jaguars with garrard...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6835082/jacksonville-jaguars-david-garrard-leaves-practice-apparently-hurt

Doesn't help when some on your team are color blind.........Garrard was wearing a red jersey during that practice when he was hit several times.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2011/8/5/2346111/david-garrard-injury-jacksonville-jaguars-news

ToroTimes
08-07-2011, 10:05 AM
NFL Scout Jayson Braddock from TC this morning
"#Texans JJ Watt is NFL ready as advertised. Brooks Reed is still struggling, bad. Earl Mitchell is most explosive MY on team."

ToroTimes
08-07-2011, 10:13 AM
Another tweet by @JaysonBraddock
"#Texans Lestar Jean goes up in endzone for great catch that was high & behind him."

In an earlier tweet Jean apparently makes a one handed catch over Keo.
Any chance Jean & TT both make the team? Both guys are 6'3" & 6'5". talk about big red zone targets.

GP
08-07-2011, 10:15 AM
Look, everyone wants to be in the Sunshine Club. steelbtexan, houstonspartan, even Second Honeymoon. It's just that the Texans won't let us in. They keep doing stupid crap that we know won't work, then expect us to buy into it. I want to go into the season with a clear, unblemished outlook. But, it's tough when you look out on the field and see some of the same coaches and players that are responsible for so much suckitude.

At some point, a person has to decide if he wants to stick with being cranky about the past and dwell in a swamp of misery...or, move forward and try to have some semblance of positive outlook.

Having a blind positive outlook is not my cup of tea.

Here's how I play back all that's happened since the first day of off-season:

1.) People within the first few weeks of knowing Kubiak was not going to be fired were on here saying "Oh well. It is what it is, we should move on and support him." Hell no.

2.) I raged against the machine when we found out Kubiak was still here. When Wade Phillips was hired, those people were begging us rebels to put down our muskets and powder horns and come back to our families. Hell no.

3.) When we drafted heavy on defense, well....it said something (to me, at least). Kubiak had his hands off the defense, and it was all Wade all weekend. With the exception of TJ Yates, IIRC.

4.)And when we picked up a combination of S and CB, and the two guys are GOOD at what they do, then and only then was I able to be convinced that it was safe to risk a trip to Happy Land again.

I do not make snap decisions and flip flop, as it has been proposed on here. It took a consistent, concerted effort by Bob McNair to prove to me that I can sit back and watch Texans football again without feeling like we weren't getting the best product we could get out there.

For all I know, the moves on paper won't do squat for us this year. The stink of mediocrity might have some lingering effects. However, I can't sit here and predict the end of the Texas world just because I have to defend a stance that is outdated and does not apply anymore. The hiring of a proven d-coord, a heavy draft on defense--ran by the new d-coord who knows what he's doing, the unceremonious cut of Amobi (our golden calf since Carr left), and the signing of truly competent and gifted secondary players renders a Pisser & Moaner outdated and archaic. At this point, anybody wishing to piss and moan is desiring to piss and moan for the sake of pissing and moaning.

I have my limits. I stuck to my guns as long as I felt it was warranted. It's time for me to just enjoy what we have and make my football talk about the x's and o's on the field and not the ideology of how McNair runs his team. Outside of canning Kubiak and starting over, this was about the best alternative to that plan. In my opinion.

But apparently, I can't do that. I've become a louse. A traitor to the cause. LOL. Oh well.

ToroTimes
08-07-2011, 10:40 AM
Today during camp at some point I'm assuming.

"@JaysonBraddock: When @Texandynasty asked Kubiak about who's pushing Kareem for his starting job, Gary responded "they all are". #Texans"

CloakNNNdagger
08-07-2011, 11:07 AM
Today during camp at some point I'm assuming.

"@JaysonBraddock: When @Texandynasty asked Kubiak about who's pushing Kareem for his starting job, Gary responded "they all are". #Texans"

That would be the same response given to "Who is ahead of Kareem for the starting job?":kitten:

Lucky
08-07-2011, 11:27 AM
More notes from things I saw this morning (Sunday 8/7) in practice:

Andre sighting! Didn't take him long to burn Kareem on a go pattern. Andre being Andre.

No Tate to go with no Foster. Ward, Slaton and Chris O. sharing 1st, 2nd, and 3rd team duties.

Caldwell and Brisiel are alternating 1st team snaps at RG. I guess they can't decide. Brisiel's better at holding, IMO.

Jacoby looked good throughout practice, including a leaping grab of an underthrown Leinart post.

Dickerson also very solid, beating Jason Allen on a much better thrown post by Leinart.

In 7-on-7 redzone drills, Schaub was near perfect. Near, because Joseph almost came away with a pick when jumping a slant ahead of Jacoby. Also, Schaub was forced to run when DeMeco blanketed the intended target Slaton out of the backfield.

My main concern with Leinart is holding on to the ball too long. And his deep arm. And the fact that this is his first Texan camp. Just keep saying to yourself "He's not Orlovsky, he's not Orlovsky."

Yates really needed the rookie camps and OTAs. He's pressing and just not very accurate, right now. You can see the reasons why he was drafted (arm, quickness). TJ's just not close to being there, yet. Still, he came away with a TD in 7-on-7s, with the help of a circus catch by Lester Jean in the right corner of the endzone.

Watt is blowing up people on occasion. An explosive athlete who can overmatch the Texans o-line at times.

Mario is getting held a lot. And when he's not being held, Williams will run himself out of a play and forget backside contain. It's going to be a problem if he doesn't figure this out.

I love how Derrick Townsel comes back for the ball. He has very good instincts for a WR. But, he's tiny. Maybe 2" taller than Holliday. Speaking of Holliday, he looked like a WR in the 2 minute drill. Made back-to-back 1st downs, including beating Kareem on a slant.

The defense was the winner in each 2 minute drill series. Nolan picked off Schaub giving the 2nd team defense the "win" over the 1st team offense. Antonio Smith abused Studdard and Wallace (two guys who likely won't be in the league next month) for back-to-back sacks. Danieal Manning sealed the 2nd team offense's fate with an interception (that's how it's done, Glover) on Leinart's hail mary.

Just one observation on Gary Kubiak during practice. When the offense and defense are going through positional workouts on different fields, Gary takes equal time observing each unit. Wait...no he doesn't. Kubiak didn't even glance over to the defense's field. Gary Kubiak, head coach of the Houston Texans offense. Always has been. Always will be.

Tailgate
08-07-2011, 11:39 AM
More notes from things I saw this morning (Sunday 8/7) in practice:

Andre sighting! Didn't take him long to burn Kareem on a go pattern. Andre being Andre.

No Tate to go with no Foster. Ward, Slaton and Chris O. sharing 1st, 2nd, and 3rd team duties.

....

Looks like Tate has a hammy issue too now....

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/07/ben-tate-not-ready-to-seize-his-opportunity/

But Tate isn’t quite ready to try to take over. Coach Gary Kubiak told reporters on Sunday that Tate wasn’t able to practice, due to a hamstring problem of his own.

“He came out, warmed up and said his hamstring was tight, so we moved on,” Kubiak said, via quotes distributed by the team. “Derrick [Ward] was back. That group right there has been impressive the last couple days in their work habits and getting the reps that they’re getting. Hopefully he’s back later on.”

b0ng
08-07-2011, 11:39 AM
Matt Jackson is in love with Watt. He will not shut the **** up about him on twitter. People have to strain to say something good about Jackson. Everybody except Lucky is talking about how good Mario looks rushing from the 2 point stance (conversely Lucky is the only one to talk about Mario vs the run).

Updates.

ChampionTexan
08-07-2011, 11:39 AM
More notes from things I saw this morning (Sunday 8/7) in practice:

No Tate to go with no Foster. Ward, Slaton and Chris O. sharing 1st, 2nd, and 3rd team duties.


Per Kubiak, Tate's also dealing with a hamstring issue.

While I wouldn't have been shocked to see him as a salary cap casualty, I'm glad Slaton's still around. It will be interesting to see how preseason touches are handed out - regardless of Foster & Tate's health.

Surreal McCoy
08-07-2011, 11:42 AM
Just one observation on Gary Kubiak during practice. When the offense and defense are going through positional workouts on different fields, Gary takes equal time observing each unit. Wait...no he doesn't. Kubiak didn't even glance over to the defense's field. Gary Kubiak, head coach of the Houston Texans offense. Always has been. Always will be.

Cowher delegates and trusts his subordinates while Gary is only concerned with one aspect of the team. lol Seriously, you couldn't make this stuff up.

gary
08-07-2011, 11:47 AM
This is why you don't cut Slaton who I think is making 1.2 million this year if I'm not mistaking. There aren't ever enough running backs on the team.

The Pencil Neck
08-07-2011, 11:47 AM
Cowher delegates and trusts his subordinates while Gary is only concerned with one aspect of the team. lol Seriously, you couldn't make this stuff up.

That's the way Gruden was with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. He was in charge of the offense and the HC and Kiffin was in charge of the defense.

ObsiWan
08-07-2011, 11:48 AM
From the Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7686931.html)

Apparently Optimus Prime has returned
(hey if Detroit's CJ can be Megatron, then our AJ must be Optimus)


Andre Johnson, ever the warrior, returned to practice Sunday and made a number of difficult catches, no matter that he's still dealing with a compound dislocation of his left index finger. Most impressive was a ball he pulled in despite solid coverage by new free safety Danieal Manning.
• Troy Nolan, Manning's backup, made the defensive play of the day, picking off a Matt Schaub pass in a crowd at the goal line.
• CB Jonathan Joseph, the Texans' top free-agent acquisition, had a strong practice. He drew a big roar from the crowd by breaking up a Schaub pass at the goal line that Jacoby Jones appeared to have caught.
• The offense still lacks timing, but the defense is looking strong. Gary Kubiak said he was "pleasantly surprised" at the progress new defensive coordinator Wade Phillips has made in just a week's time implementing his 3-4 system.
• There's nothing more fun than watching Joe Marciano run his special teams drills. The intense Marciano likes to mix it up himself, occasionally taking on a blocker to make a point about kick coverage. But he expects intelligent play, too. When things got a little chippy, he screamed, "Don't throw him down! It's a penalty!"
• LB Brian Cushing is still more than a week away from getting into the mix, it seems. But he's trying to get his surgically repaired knee strong enough by pushing a heavy sled up and down the field.
• Matt Leinart had a great week of camp. He's super accurate and very poised. He again looks like the All-American quarterback he was at USC, not the guy who fell on his face at Arizona.
• Mario Williams experienced some hamstring tightness during a pass-rush drill, but after getting a trainer to stretch him out, he appeared to be moving fine.
• With Ben Tate taking the morning off because of a tight hamstring and joining Arian Foster on the sidelines, rookie Chris Ogbonnaya got extra work and earned praise from Kubiak.
• The players are getting a break until meetings Monday night, returning to the practice field Tuesday morning. The "Youth Day" workout from 8 to 10 a.m. is open to the public. Go to the Texans' web site to print free tickets.



http://us.bc.yahoo.com/b?P=46c7ac24-c114-11e0-ae4c-a35f7c9cc2a6&T=19esggoq2%2fX%3d1312735365%2fE%3d2022776012%2fR% 3dncsprtftpr%2fK%3d5%2fV%3d8.1%2fW%3d0%2fY%3dPARTN ER_US%2fF%3d4060511452%2fH%3dYWx0c3BpZD0iOTY3MjgzM zMzIiBzZXJ2ZUlkPSI0NmM3YWMyNC1jMTE0LTExZTAtYWU0Yy1 hMzVmN2M5Y2MyYTYiIHNpdGVJZD0iNzYxMDUxIiB0U3RtcD0iM TMxMjczNTM2NTIxMDcyNiIgdGFyZ2V0PSJfdG9wIiA-%2fQ%3d-1%2fS%3d1%2fJ%3dE68D0D4C&U=129v6ds1n%2fN%3d_J3aE9FJpBs-%2fC%3d-1%2fD%3dAP173%2fB%3d-1%2fV%3d5

Read more: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7686931.html#ixzz1UMWHnUs7 (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7686931.html#ixzz1UMWHnUs7)

Doppelganger
08-07-2011, 11:48 AM
Cowher delegates and trusts his subordinates while Gary is only concerned with one aspect of the team. lol Seriously, you couldn't make this stuff up.

To be fair, Rex Ryan does the same thing in NY. He leaves his offense in the hands of his coordinators and micromanages his Defense. While he is the head coach, his fingerprints are all over the Jet D.

b0ng
08-07-2011, 11:58 AM
Cowher delegates and trusts his subordinates while Gary is only concerned with one aspect of the team. lol Seriously, you couldn't make this stuff up.

Pretty sure he learned it from Shanahan who has basically done the same thing. This is also how Sean Payton won a SB (needed a solid D coordinator).

The Pencil Neck
08-07-2011, 12:11 PM
I saw a couple where McCain (#21) got in on a blitz; can't find the ones you speak of...
http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-06-TrainingCamp/Photos/thumbs/DSC_0278.JPG (http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-06-TrainingCamp/Photos/DSC_0278.JPG) http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-06-TrainingCamp/Photos/thumbs/DSC_0279.JPG (http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-06-TrainingCamp/Photos/DSC_0279.JPG) http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-06-TrainingCamp/Photos/thumbs/DSC_0280.JPG (http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-06-TrainingCamp/Photos/DSC_0280.JPG)

That was one play; I thought that was Harris, my bad. The other play was Harris. Here's a sample of that:

http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-06-TrainingCamp/Photos/DSC_0295.JPG

That's a sack.

Tailgate
08-07-2011, 12:12 PM
A position of concern for me.... NT. Anyone have any observations on how the Cody/Mitchell pair has looked?

The Pencil Neck
08-07-2011, 12:12 PM
A position of concern for me.... NT. Anyone have any observations on how the Cody/Mitchell pair has looked?

People have been saying that Mitchell has been looking really good.

alphajoker
08-07-2011, 12:18 PM
• The players are getting a break until meetings Monday night, returning to the practice field Tuesday morning.

Psshhhh...soft.

:sarcasm:

Tailgate
08-07-2011, 12:18 PM
People have been saying that Mitchell has been looking really good.

Cant wait for Monday night to see the boys in action. The ability to plug the middle (however we can do it, 2 gap pen w solid lb support,etc) will be something to keep a close eye on this preseason.

redwhiteANDblue
08-07-2011, 12:18 PM
• Matt Leinart had a great week of camp. He's super accurate and very poised. He again looks like the All-American quarterback he was at USC, not the guy who fell on his face at Arizona.


Wow that's kind of hard to believe. Can't wait to see him play in pre-season then

BSofA04
08-07-2011, 12:30 PM
Anyone who's gone to camp, can you please let me know how Brooks Reed is doing? I read on Twitter that he's struggling, bad.

It's early, but I'm really hoping he comes in and provides the pass rush we need on 3rd down in his rookie season. Hopefully competes for a starting spot next season.

Thanks.

redwhiteANDblue
08-07-2011, 12:33 PM
Anyone who's gone to camp, can you please let me know how Brooks Reed is doing? I read on Twitter that he's struggling, bad.

It's early, but I'm really hoping he comes in and provides the pass rush we need on 3rd down in his rookie season. Hopefully competes for a starting spot next season.

Thanks.

I'm going on Tuesday. I'll try to get some videos in if possible

Lucky
08-07-2011, 12:38 PM
lol Seriously, you couldn't make this stuff up.
I'd probably laugh, too. If I hadn't watched 5 seasons of suckass defense while the head coach did absolutely nothing about it.

The other play was Harris. Here's a sample of that:
Harris came on a nickel CB blitz today during the 2 minute drill. Schaub got the ball out in time, but it's clearly going to be part of Wade's pass rush arsenal.

Lucky
08-07-2011, 12:44 PM
Anyone who's gone to camp, can you please let me know how Brooks Reed is doing? I read on Twitter that he's struggling, bad.
All of the OLBs are trying to learn the position. None have played LB before. Which I find odd. Wouldn't you expect the Texans to bring in at least one veteran who had 3-4 OLB experience? Just to show the rest of the guys how it's done, by example?

Having said that, Reed looks noticeably smaller than the other OLBs. Will he have a difficult time getting off blocks against NFL tackles? I don't know. I did see Dreessen handle Reed one-on-one on a running play. With no mini-camps or OTAs, it's a process that is being accelerated perhaps too quickly.

redwhiteANDblue
08-07-2011, 12:45 PM
Kjax v. Walter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjVFQCd8TzU)





:wadepalm:

ObsiWan
08-07-2011, 12:48 PM
That was one play; I thought that was Harris, my bad. The other play was Harris. Here's a sample of that:



That's a sack.

Aaah, found it
http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-06-TrainingCamp/Photos/thumbs/DSC_0293.JPG (http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-06-TrainingCamp/Photos/DSC_0293.JPG) http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-06-TrainingCamp/Photos/thumbs/DSC_0294.JPG (http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-06-TrainingCamp/Photos/DSC_0294.JPG) http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-06-TrainingCamp/Photos/thumbs/DSC_0295.JPG (http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-06-TrainingCamp/Photos/DSC_0295.JPG) http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-06-TrainingCamp/Photos/thumbs/DSC_0296.JPG (http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-06-TrainingCamp/Photos/DSC_0296.JPG)

BigBull17
08-07-2011, 12:51 PM
Kjax v. Walter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjVFQCd8TzU)





:wadepalm:

Shocker. Guy just doesn't look like a football player. Didn't last year, doesn't this year

ObsiWan
08-07-2011, 12:55 PM
All of the OLBs are trying to learn the position. None have played LB before. Which I find odd. Wouldn't you expect the Texans to bring in at least one veteran who had 3-4 OLB experience? Just to show the rest of the guys how it's done, by example?

Having said that, Reed looks noticeably smaller than the other OLBs. Will he have a difficult time getting off blocks against NFL tackles? I don't know. I did see Dreessen handle Reed one-on-one on a running play. With no mini-camps or OTAs, it's a process that is being accelerated perhaps too quickly.

Well, they did bring in that Dobbins guy (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DobbTi20.htm) from SD/Miami... albeit his stat line isn't very impressive, he has played in this system (or something like it) his whole career.

ObsiWan
08-07-2011, 12:58 PM
Kjax v. Walter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjVFQCd8TzU)





:wadepalm:

Perfect pattern and a perfect pass. No one would have defended that.

redwhiteANDblue
08-07-2011, 01:04 PM
Perfect pattern and a perfect pass. No one would have defended that.

It's not about that. His footwork is terrible. He keeps falling down. Notice right after the first cut he's already stumbling and then on the second cut where Walter goes back, Kareem just flat out falls. And yeah, maybe nobody could have broken that one up but a real NFL corner could have at least stayed in the vicinity of the pass to put pressure on the receiver to make the catch.

BSofA04
08-07-2011, 01:06 PM
All of the OLBs are trying to learn the position. None have played LB before. Which I find odd. Wouldn't you expect the Texans to bring in at least one veteran who had 3-4 OLB experience? Just to show the rest of the guys how it's done, by example?

Having said that, Reed looks noticeably smaller than the other OLBs. Will he have a difficult time getting off blocks against NFL tackles? I don't know. I did see Dreessen handle Reed one-on-one on a running play. With no mini-camps or OTAs, it's a process that is being accelerated perhaps too quickly.

It would make sense to bring in a veteran OLB to show Mario, Barwin, Reed and Nading how it's done.

I'm surprised you mentioned that he looks smaller than the other OLB's. But I guess that is true since Mario can make anyone look small and Barwin is 2" taller. Brooks height/weight is similiar to Cushing, but he played DE in college. Man I'm hoping he makes big strides over these next 4 weeks and can contribute similar to how Barwin contributed his rookie season.

If you put Barwin, Mario, Cushing, Watt, DeMeco, Reed and Smith in on 3rd down, how could any offense line contain that?

b0ng
08-07-2011, 01:09 PM
Kjax v. Walter (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjVFQCd8TzU)





:wadepalm:

CasteFootball just got an erection and they don't know why.

Rey
08-07-2011, 01:09 PM
Perfect pattern and a perfect pass. No one would have defended that.

If that was the case then you'd see that pattern run all the time.

Any route is defendable. Kj just didn't do a great job on that play. He did a bad job of feeling the receiver, poor job of changing directions, and he slipped.

He wasn't in good position to play that route. He took away the inside slant, but he has to know that type of route is a possibility.

It was a really good route, and a well timed pass. But it can still be played better.

The Pencil Neck
08-07-2011, 01:15 PM
If that was the case then you'd see that pattern run all the time.

Any route is defendable. Kj just didn't do a great job on that play. He did a bad job of feeling the receiver, poor job of changing directions, and he slipped.

He wasn't in good position to play that route. He took away the inside slant, but he has to know that type of route is a possibility.

It was a really good route, and a well timed pass. But it can still be played better.

^^^ This.

There's a reason Vance Joseph (I assume that's VJ) immediately walks up to him and starts coaching after the play is over.

ObsiWan
08-07-2011, 01:27 PM
It's not about that. His footwork is terrible. He keeps falling down. Notice right after the first cut he's already stumbling and then on the second cut where Walter goes back, Kareem just flat out falls. And yeah, maybe nobody could have broken that one up but a real NFL corner could have at least stayed in the vicinity of the pass to put pressure on the receiver to make the catch.

I see your point. And, IMHO, the only "cure" for KJ's ailments is studying the game more. Successful CBs know the WR route tree as well as the WRs do. And they know what routes are most likely to be run in a given game situation. It's painfully obvious that KJ ain't there yet. With better coaching and film study he may get there. Or he may never get there.

I sense that KJ has become the new Petey Faggins/Jacque Reeves

GP
08-07-2011, 01:27 PM
...Danieal Manning sealed the 2nd team offense's fate with an interception (that's how it's done, Glover) on Leinart's hail mary.

Well I have been told by about two dozen people on here that you're not supposed to try and catch the ball in that situation--That batting it down is how you're supposed to do it.

Seems Danieal Manning and I share the same philosophy: Put ten fingers around the ball or bat it down as a last resort.

I still don't know why people think deflecting a ball, in traffic, is better than securing it with both hands. Especially if it's lofted and you have a chance to get under it. Oh well. At least we have ONE defensive back who isn't afraid to catch the ball in crunch time. And you guys spare me the "That's how they are coached" crap. Manning doesn't share that opinion, obviously.


Just one observation on Gary Kubiak during practice. When the offense and defense are going through positional workouts on different fields, Gary takes equal time observing each unit. Wait...no he doesn't. Kubiak didn't even glance over to the defense's field. Gary Kubiak, head coach of the Houston Texans offense. Always has been. Always will be.

Did he go over and watch defense in previous camps? Asking because I can't remember, nor have been to any camps.

It could be that Gary and Wade, if morphed together, would be the perfect head coach. Instead, they can each be head coaches (essentially "o-coord and d-coord") of their own squads, with Gary making ultimate decisions. Though I doubt we'll ever see Gary interfering with Wade's decisions on the defense. Those two guys are probably going to be like self-contained, separate entities...which works if things are good (we're winning) and bad if things are not good (losing) because you're going to have one side pointing at the other, with two daddies on each side saying "It's not MY kid's fault!"

That's a concern I have: The isolation factor of having essentially a HC on offense and a HC on defense. On most teams, the HC is the HC and he has a OC and a DC under him. HC duties are relegated to planning and making sure his OC and DC are doing things he wants them to do--If he doesn't like things, he can fire and hire an OC and DC separately.

But with us, the HC is essentially the OC and now he has a legitimate DC (Wade) who will most likely function and be seen, by his defensive players, as being THEIR head coach. Gary cannot fire Wade, and I don't want anybody telling me that Wade was Gary's hire. Bullshit. That was a McNair hiring, which proves that Bob has his hand in things and isn't just letting Rick and Gary run free with all operations. McNair decided to keep Kubiak; McNair hired Wade to serve in a Kubiak-ish role for the defense. And with that, Kubiak lost a measure of control over the whole team.

With that hiring, only McNair can fire Phillips (and he isn't going to be one and done with Wade after one bad year here in 2011). And if the defense improves but the offense still struggles and can't get going until the 4th quarter, there'll be an increasing chance that Wade Phillips assumes the throne since this will be (IIRC) Kubiak's final year unless he gets a new deal. The thing McNair loses, if he cans Kubiak, is the ability to spot offense talent in the draft AND probably the continuity on offense--The guys on offense won't deal very well with losing Kubiak, IMO.

EDIT: Things are going badly in Washington for Shanny and Shanny, Jr. IF Kubiak gets axed after 2011, is it possible that McNair could lure Kyle Shanahan back to Houston to serve as OC with full OC control? I just feel like the playcalling with Kyle was a lot more diverse and less predictable than what we have now. Plus, from it sounds like in the things Steph Stradley shared about Kyle during his stay here, he is VERY smart on offense and is well-liked by the players. I wonder if McNair, in the back of his mind, isn't already thinking about Kyle the same way he might have been thinking about Wade when Wade was on thin ice with Dallas last season? I think it could work, if need be.

So we've got ourselves a bit of a situation here, IMO. If things work well, everybody is happy. If things fall apart, it could get ugly in a hurry. Houston's two prominent coaches--Kubiak and Phillips--will be front and center under a microscope for the media, fans, and ownership. It could get Highlander up in here.

The Pencil Neck
08-07-2011, 01:33 PM
Well I have been told by about two dozen people on here that you're not supposed to try and catch the ball in that situation--That batting it down is how you're supposed to do it.

Seems Danieal Manning and I share the same philosophy: Put ten fingers around the ball or bat it down as a last resort.

I still don't know why people think deflecting a ball, in traffic, is better than securing it with both hands. Especially if it's lofted and you have a chance to get under it. Oh well. At least we have ONE defensive back who isn't afraid to catch the ball in crunch time. And you guys spare me the "That's how they are coached" crap. Manning doesn't share that opinion, obviously.


Dude.

Go tell it to Deion Sanders.

Go watch the re-cap show on NFLN with Mariucci and with Deion.

Every time there's a hail mary pass, they start yelling "KNOCK IT DOWN! KNOCK IT DOWN!"

Why do they do that? A joke?

No. It's what 99.999% of the coaches out there teach their young DBs to do on a hail mary. The only coach I've ever heard of who didn't was YOURs.

GP
08-07-2011, 01:36 PM
Dude.

Go tell it to Deion Sanders.

Go watch the re-cap show on NFLN with Mariucci and with Deion.

Every time there's a hail mary pass, they start yelling "KNOCK IT DOWN! KNOCK IT DOWN!"

Why do they do that? A joke?

No. It's what 99.999% of the coaches out there teach their young DBs to do on a hail mary. The only coach I've ever heard of who didn't was YOURs.

Why didn't Manning knock it down?

It's not a 99.999% thing like it's being proposed.

I guess we have a dumbass Safety then? Did anybody sit Manning down and give him an ass chewing for catching the ball? Probably not.

It's not either/or, obviously. There's room for both ways.

Rey
08-07-2011, 01:40 PM
Why didn't Manning knock it down?

It's not a 99.999% thing like it's being proposed.

I guess we have a dumbass Safety then? Did anybody sit Manning down and give him an ass chewing for catching the ball? Probably not.

It's not either/or, obviously. There's room for both ways.

What was the situation?

You are supposed to knock it down when you are in traffic when it's an end of the game situation. The ball bounces off your hands a lot more softly when you try to catch it and don't vs violently slapping it to the turf.

Last year glover, IMO, was unlucky and I think he should have swatted the ball harder towards the sideline instead of serving a volley.

Just google search batting the ball down in end of the game situations.

Porky
08-07-2011, 01:43 PM
I see your point. And, IMHO, the only "cure" for KJ's ailments is studying the game more. Successful CBs know the WR route tree as well as the WRs do. And they know what routes are most likely to be run in a given game situation. It's painfully obvious that KJ ain't there yet. With better coaching and film study he may get there. Or he may never get there.

I sense that KJ has become the new Petey Faggins/Jacque Reeves

KJ wishes he could be that good. The guy flat out deserves to be cut. I've been saying since day one he is a bust. He is completely worthless crap as a football player. Get rid of him. Save whatever you can on the cap, and bring in another FA or two at positions of need. Of course, they will never admit how bad a selection that was. They will hold onto him, trying to save face instead of doing what's best for this team. Dump him. He stinks. Just another terrible defensive selection by the Smithiak regime who have proven over and over that they are clueless at evaluating defensive talent. At least Wade knows how to draft defensive players. KJ, go get a job with State Farm and let's move on for the best of this team.

gary
08-07-2011, 01:44 PM
This season will either be really good or really bad. If Gary is fired then all I'll hope for is Phillips not to be promoted but he probably would be.

SheTexan
08-07-2011, 01:45 PM
I see your point. And, IMHO, the only "cure" for KJ's ailments is studying the game more. Successful CBs know the WR route tree as well as the WRs do. And they know what routes are most likely to be run in a given game situation. It's painfully obvious that KJ ain't there yet. With better coaching and film study he may get there. Or he may never get there.

I sense that KJ has become the new Petey Faggins/Jacque Reeves

I'm beginning to wonder if he watches film, studies routes at all, or just isn't smart enough to "get it." Maybe he's not even coachable! Who knows! BUT, I sure as hell DO NOT want to go through another "KJ is learning year."

The Pencil Neck
08-07-2011, 01:46 PM
Why didn't Manning knock it down?

It's not a 99.999% thing like it's being proposed.

I guess we have a dumbass Safety then? Did anybody sit Manning down and give him an ass chewing for catching the ball? Probably not.

It's not either/or, obviously. There's room for both ways.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/17920/further-examining-jags-hail-mary-winner


1) Glover Quin’s “knockdown” of the pass from David Garrard has broached the topic of whether it’s the right play to try to knock that sort of pass down, as we always hear players are coached to do. He obviously would have been better off catching it. But Quin knocked the ball away more than he knocked it down. The angle was more out of the end zone than it was down to the ground, and that’s what created the possibility of Thomas catching the ricochet.

“That’s what you’re taught to do,” said Jaguars safety Sean Considine, whose forced fumble got the Jaguars the ball seconds earlier. “I think there might be some coaches reconsidering that right now.”

Jack Del Rio said Monday that his take on the knock-it-down philosophy is “being re-evaluated right now.”

GP
08-07-2011, 01:50 PM
KJ wishes he could be that good. The guy flat out deserves to be cut. I've been saying since day one he is a bust. He is completely worthless crap as a football player. Get rid of him. Save whatever you can on the cap, and bring in another FA or two at positions of need. Of course, they will never admit how bad a selection that was. They will hold onto him, trying to save face instead of doing what's best for this team. Dump him. He stinks. Just another terrible defensive selection by the Smithiak regime who have proven over and over that they are clueless at evaluating defensive talent. At least Wade knows how to draft defensive players. KJ, go get a job with State Farm and let's move on for the best of this team.

Man, I totally agree.

It's just a "Defend your first rounder" mentality that every team has. Nobody wants to admit they reached on a guy in round 1.

I think, honestly enough, that he could get cut after this season. Preseason will be the life or death of KJ for 2011, IMO. Plays good, he's CB2. Plays bad, and I can see Wade sitting him down in favor of Carmichael or Harris...or even Jason Allen (he's still with us, right?).

Makes no sense to put him at CB2 in reg season game 1 if he hasn't earned it. McNair signed off on the idea to cut Amobi, probably at Wade's request, and so I hope Wade sees what we see IF it turns out that KJ slumps in preseason like I think he will.

THAT is the one glaring spot on defense, for me, as is a bit of question at the NT position. Other than that, I'm good with everything else out there.

Rey
08-07-2011, 01:53 PM
I'm beginning to wonder if he watches film, studies routes at all, or just isn't smart enough to "get it." Maybe he's not even coachable! Who knows! BUT, I sure as hell DO NOT want to go through another "KJ is learning year."

I'm wondering if he can be a man to man corner in the NFL. If somehow we could infuse him and Brice McCain I think we'd have a really good nickel corner.

GP
08-07-2011, 01:58 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/17920/further-examining-jags-hail-mary-winner

1) Glover Quin’s “knockdown” of the pass from David Garrard has broached the topic of whether it’s the right play to try to knock that sort of pass down, as we always hear players are coached to do. He obviously would have been better off catching it. But Quin knocked the ball away more than he knocked it down. The angle was more out of the end zone than it was down to the ground, and that’s what created the possibility of Thomas catching the ricochet.

“That’s what you’re taught to do,” said Jaguars safety Sean Considine, whose forced fumble got the Jaguars the ball seconds earlier. “I think there might be some coaches reconsidering that right now.”

Jack Del Rio said Monday that his take on the knock-it-down philosophy is “being re-evaluated right now.”

All I am saying is that there is not a uniform, 100% across the board cult-like mentality on whether you knock it down or try to catch it. It's not automatic.

Obviously, the knock it down philosophy CAN cost you the game. I seriously have never been taught that you always knock it down 100% of the time. Yeah, maybe if you're doing it because you CAN'T get to the ball in time to get a good set of hands on it, for the catch.

We spent so much time on trying to cause turnovers that we were taught to cause a fumble or catch the ball if we could. I can never remember being told to simply bat the ball down in any situation where we had the chance, especially in traffic, to catch it and end the game right there. (I wasn't good enough to play on offense--Too small for the line, too slow for HB, too short for WR). Trying to undo what you've been drilled to do (go for the turnover) is counter-intuitive out there under the lights and under pressure.

Which is why Manning caught the ball instead of dinking it and giving the WR a shot at it. Obviously, Manning could give two shits about knocking the ball down if he can get his hands around it. Good for him.

The Pencil Neck
08-07-2011, 02:10 PM
All I am saying is that there is not a uniform, 100% across the board cult-like mentality on whether you knock it down or try to catch it. It's not automatic.

Obviously, the knock it down philosophy CAN cost you the game. I seriously have never been taught that you always knock it down 100% of the time. Yeah, maybe if you're doing it because you CAN'T get to the ball in time to get a good set of hands on it, for the catch.

We spent so much time on trying to cause turnovers that we were taught to cause a fumble or catch the ball if we could. I can never remember being told to simply bat the ball down in any situation where we had the chance, especially in traffic, to catch it and end the game right there. (I wasn't good enough to play on offense--Too small for the line, too slow for HB, too short for WR). Trying to undo what you've been drilled to do (go for the turnover) is counter-intuitive out there under the lights and under pressure.

Which is why Manning caught the ball instead of dinking it and giving the WR a shot at it. Obviously, Manning could give two shits about knocking the ball down if he can get his hands around it. Good for him.

What me and several other people on here have been saying is that DBs are taught to knock the ball down in a Hail Mary situation. And that's just what my quote said.

What you had said in another thread is that you were taught to go for the interception. And I've never, ever heard of any coach teaching that in that Hail Mary situation. A lot of defensive backs DO go for the interception and a lot of interceptions are made in that situation.

BUT that's not what they're taught to do and for most people, that's considered a grandstanding play because going for the pick has a higher chance of a bad play.

From what I remember seeing in the Bullpen Photos of Mannings interceptions, they didn't really look like Hail Mary's. They looked like normal passes into the end-zone... and that's a different animal than a jump ball when you're surrounded by a lot of other players all going for the ball.

EDIT: One of the plays I thought was a Manning interception was actually a Troy Nolan goal-line interception.

CloakNNNdagger
08-07-2011, 02:13 PM
People have been saying that Mitchell has been looking really good.

My skepticism with that is the light weight Dline is always going against a light weight Oline in practice.............:kitten:

CloakNNNdagger
08-07-2011, 02:21 PM
Did he go over and watch defense in previous camps? Asking because I can't remember, nor have been to any camps.

It could be that Gary and Wade, if morphed together, would be the perfect head coach. Instead, they can each be head coaches (essentially "o-coord and d-coord") of their own squads, with Gary making ultimate decisions. Though I doubt we'll ever see Gary interfering with Wade's decisions on the defense. Those two guys are probably going to be like self-contained, separate entities...which works if things are good (we're winning) and bad if things are not good (losing) because you're going to have one side pointing at the other, with two daddies on each side saying "It's not MY kid's fault!"

That's a concern I have: The isolation factor of having essentially a HC on offense and a HC on defense. On most teams, the HC is the HC and he has a OC and a DC under him. HC duties are relegated to planning and making sure his OC and DC are doing things he wants them to do--If he doesn't like things, he can fire and hire an OC and DC separately.

But with us, the HC is essentially the OC and now he has a legitimate DC (Wade) who will most likely function and be seen, by his defensive players, as being THEIR head coach. Gary cannot fire Wade, and I don't want anybody telling me that Wade was Gary's hire. Bullshit. That was a McNair hiring, which proves that Bob has his hand in things and isn't just letting Rick and Gary run free with all operations. McNair decided to keep Kubiak; McNair hired Wade to serve in a Kubiak-ish role for the defense. And with that, Kubiak lost a measure of control over the whole team.

With that hiring, only McNair can fire Phillips (and he isn't going to be one and done with Wade after one bad year here in 2011). And if the defense improves but the offense still struggles and can't get going until the 4th quarter, there'll be an increasing chance that Wade Phillips assumes the throne since this will be (IIRC) Kubiak's final year unless he gets a new deal. The thing McNair loses, if he cans Kubiak, is the ability to spot offense talent in the draft AND probably the continuity on offense--The guys on offense won't deal very well with losing Kubiak, IMO.

EDIT: Things are going badly in Washington for Shanny and Shanny, Jr. IF Kubiak gets axed after 2011, is it possible that McNair could lure Kyle Shanahan back to Houston to serve as OC with full OC control? I just feel like the playcalling with Kyle was a lot more diverse and less predictable than what we have now. Plus, from it sounds like in the things Steph Stradley shared about Kyle during his stay here, he is VERY smart on offense and is well-liked by the players. I wonder if McNair, in the back of his mind, isn't already thinking about Kyle the same way he might have been thinking about Wade when Wade was on thin ice with Dallas last season? I think it could work, if need be.

So we've got ourselves a bit of a situation here, IMO. If things work well, everybody is happy. If things fall apart, it could get ugly in a hurry. Houston's two prominent coaches--Kubiak and Phillips--will be front and center under a microscope for the media, fans, and ownership. It could get Highlander up in here.

The truth is that in previous camps, it was mentioned more than once on this board that Kubiak was leaving the D to the Dcord. At least, if he's still doing that now, his butt may be safer in that there is at least one person watching the D that knows what they're doing.:kitten:

Rey
08-07-2011, 02:26 PM
What me and several other people on here have been saying is that DBs are taught to knock the ball down in a Hail Mary situation. And that's just what my quote said.

What you had said in another thread is that you were taught to go for the interception. And I've never, ever heard of any coach teaching that in that Hail Mary situation. A lot of defensive backs DO go for the interception and a lot of interceptions are made in that situation.

BUT that's not what they're taught to do and for most people, that's considered a grandstanding play because going for the pick has a higher chance of a bad play.

From what I remember seeing in the Bullpen Photos of Mannings interceptions, they didn't really look like Hail Mary's. They looked like normal passes into the end-zone... and that's a different animal than a jump ball when you're surrounded by a lot of other players all going for the ball.

Cosign.

Porky
08-07-2011, 02:28 PM
My skepticism with that is the light weight Dline is always going against a light weight Oline in practice.............:kitten:

Yup. And my educated guess is that teams will try and attack our defense up the gut. At least I would. I think we will struggle against the big physical lines, and without an anchor in the middle we will be very vulnerable to traps, draws, and over the center or guard runs as well as screens right in the middle of our D. Yes, that and KJ (if he starts) will be our Achilles heels.

The strength will be on the outsides of the D, where I feel really good about. Speed, size and athleticism in spades there, but not on the inside - well, speed yes, but not size and brute strength to hold the point of attack. The inside NT position will be designed to be quick and penetrating, but I suspect that will make us vulnerable to those inside screens bigtime. Having said that, I see big improvement with this D over last years disaster.

Rey
08-07-2011, 02:42 PM
The truth is that in previous camps, it was mentioned more than once on this board that Kubiak was leaving the D to the Dcord. At least, if he's still doing that now, his butt may be safer in that there is at least one person watching the D that knows what they're doing.:kitten:

I think on gameday may be where it pays off the biggest.

if kubiak is able to not be worried about every defensive play call coming through, he may be able to focus on his area of expertise more.

I think wade is perfectly capable of handling that unit by his lonesome.

Lucky
08-07-2011, 03:58 PM
From what I remember seeing in the Bullpen Photos of Mannings interceptions, they didn't really look like Hail Mary's. They looked like normal passes into the end-zone... and that's a different animal than a jump ball when you're surrounded by a lot of other players all going for the ball.
Leinart heaved the ball into the end zone with 2 seconds on the clock. I call that a hail mary. I think we're talking about two different things. If all a DB can do is get a hand on the ball, knock it down rather than tip or deflect the ball. But if he can secure the football, by all means do so. Quin could have secured the football in Jacksonville. Manning did secure the ball in practice.

JCTexan
08-07-2011, 04:00 PM
From the Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7686931.html)

Apparently Optimus Prime has returned
(hey if Detroit's CJ can be Megatron, then our AJ must be Optimus)

A question: Andre was back in practice today, so why was Joseph against Jones? Was he going against dre at all or was he mainly on Jacoby?

Lucky
08-07-2011, 04:02 PM
A question: Andre was back in practice today, so why was Joseph against Jones? Was he going against dre at all or was he mainly on Jacoby?
Joseph pretty much stayed on the defensive right side. He took the WR on that side that was closest to the sideline, for the most part.

GP
08-07-2011, 04:16 PM
What me and several other people on here have been saying is that DBs are taught to knock the ball down in a Hail Mary situation. And that's just what my quote said.

What you had said in another thread is that you were taught to go for the interception. And I've never, ever heard of any coach teaching that in that Hail Mary situation. A lot of defensive backs DO go for the interception and a lot of interceptions are made in that situation.

BUT that's not what they're taught to do and for most people, that's considered a grandstanding play because going for the pick has a higher chance of a bad play.

From what I remember seeing in the Bullpen Photos of Mannings interceptions, they didn't really look like Hail Mary's. They looked like normal passes into the end-zone... and that's a different animal than a jump ball when you're surrounded by a lot of other players all going for the ball.

EDIT: One of the plays I thought was a Manning interception was actually a Troy Nolan goal-line interception.

Read Lucky's reply. He is saying what I am saying: Can't get a good read on the ball, or out of position? Flail away! But if you can, wrap two hands around it and secure it.

Quin could have caught the ball. Manning DID catch the ball.

Grandstanding play? Puhleeze! If catching the ball and falling to the ground with it, causing a turnover, and ending the game, is grandstanding...then I love me some grandstanding.

The world was once flat, too, ya' know. There's coaches out there right now who are not teaching the idea that every situation requires batting it down.

Just from a pure logical standpoint, it makes more sense to use two hands and try for the catch rather than simply playing volleyball with it. Unless, of course, other factors get in the way of that ideal situation. But to say Quin did the right thing, but just failed at it? Will never accept that as Gospel truth. he could have caught that ball. He did what he was coached to do, but that doesn't mean it's infallible and sacred to always do what you're coached to do.

And either Danieal Manning ignored that sacred command, or he was taught otherwise. Either way, he made a better play in a similar situation that Quin did vs. Jags. Just another reason why I have hope in the Texans this year--A d-coord who knows his shit, and at least ONE secondary player who is a baller and won't hesitate out there. Paralysis by analysis is what doomed the Texans defense for the past four years--Too much thinking and not enough instinct.

EllisUnit
08-07-2011, 04:21 PM
http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-07-TrainingCamp/Photos-album.htm

photo 62 confirms Vickers belly is big haha

GP
08-07-2011, 04:25 PM
http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-07-TrainingCamp/Photos-album.htm

photo 62 confirms Vickers belly is big haha

Holy smokes. There's a baby in there. Second trimester, for sure.

Geez, Lawrence. Lay off the Whataburger already. I bet he'll lose a good amount of that. Kubiak doesn't like fat kids.

EllisUnit
08-07-2011, 04:27 PM
Holy smokes. There's a baby in there. Second trimester, for sure.

Geez, Lawrence. Lay off the Whataburger already. I bet he'll lose a good amount of that. Kubiak doesn't like fat kids.

yeah i think he may be pregnant, i hope maternity leave is after the superbowl ;)

Playoffs
08-07-2011, 04:29 PM
http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-07-TrainingCamp/Photos-album.htm

photo 62 confirms Vickers belly is big haha
That's ballast. :aggressive:

b0ng
08-07-2011, 04:34 PM
Much like Rosencopter, I doubt that same unintentionally hilarious situation is going to happen again for a long time. Learn from it and move on but 99 times out of 100 that ball fallsincomplete regardless what technique is used.

Kimmy
08-07-2011, 04:46 PM
Much like Rosencopter, I doubt that same unintentionally hilarious situation is going to happen again for a long time. Learn from it and move on but 99 times out of 100 that ball fallsincomplete regardless what technique is used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54_U4VAxdC8&feature=related

I love this video ...

GP
08-07-2011, 05:38 PM
yeah i think he may be pregnant, i hope maternity leave is after the superbowl ;)

It will pop out and pump its fist in the air.

I imagine it too look like a mini Vickers, goatee and all. And it jumps out of the arms of the nurse and runs over the doctor, clearing a way for Lawrence to leave the delivery room. BAM!

EllisUnit
08-07-2011, 06:25 PM
It will pop out and pump its fist in the air.

I imagine it too look like a mini Vickers, goatee and all. And it jumps out of the arms of the nurse and runs over the doctor, clearing a way for Lawrence to leave the delivery room. BAM!

:lol:

playa465
08-07-2011, 06:48 PM
My skepticism with that is the light weight Dline is always going against a light weight Oline in practice.............:kitten:

Yup. And my educated guess is that teams will try and attack our defense up the gut. At least I would. I think we will struggle against the big physical lines, and without an anchor in the middle we will be very vulnerable to traps, draws, and over the center or guard runs as well as screens right in the middle of our D. Yes, that and KJ (if he starts) will be our Achilles heels.

The strength will be on the outsides of the D, where I feel really good about. Speed, size and athleticism in spades there, but not on the inside - well, speed yes, but not size and brute strength to hold the point of attack. The inside NT position will be designed to be quick and penetrating, but I suspect that will make us vulnerable to those inside screens bigtime. Having said that, I see big improvement with this D over last years disaster.

^^^ I agree with both of you...I hope all the concern with pass defense, sacks and QB pressure doesn't leave us vulnerable against the run. We're asking alot of this D with new coaching, scheme, players and new positions. Not going to beat a dead horse but big NT or not, the middle of a 3-4 D has to be stout with a tenacious player..if our NT can not hold the point of attack or penetrate with positive results its not going to work.

b0ng
08-07-2011, 07:07 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEvHC1eOdlo&feature=player_embedded

Matt Jackson's TC thoughts.

Honoring Earl 34
08-07-2011, 07:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEvHC1eOdlo&feature=player_embedded

Matt Jackson's TC thoughts.

GEEZ ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cakCcliNPXg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueugOWJ9aeo&feature=related

The Pencil Neck
08-07-2011, 08:55 PM
Leinart heaved the ball into the end zone with 2 seconds on the clock. I call that a hail mary. I think we're talking about two different things. If all a DB can do is get a hand on the ball, knock it down rather than tip or deflect the ball. But if he can secure the football, by all means do so. Quin could have secured the football in Jacksonville. Manning did secure the ball in practice.

Listen. All I'm saying is that every coach in the world (except for maybe 1) tells their DBs that in a Hail Mary situation -- knock the ball down. To support that, I just posted a quote from an NFL safety that said that he'd been taught that and that DBs are always taught that. An NFL head coach was re-evaluating the philosophy because of the GQ play... BUT that just underlines the point that it is the prevailing philosophy.

Go back to the quote. I don't understand why there's even a continuing discussion about this. Watch the highlight shows with Deion Sanders, every time there's a Hail Mary, he screams "Knock It Down" in chorus with Steve Mariucci. When Berman and Jackson used to do Primetime on ESPN, every time there was a Hail Mary, Berman would say something to the effect of "What do you do?" and Jackson would say, "Knock it down."

Do some guys go ahead and intercept it if they have the chance? Yes. But that's not what they're coached to do and there have been lots of games when a guy has tried to intercept and it's turned into a bad play: it's gone through their hands, it's bounced off their hands, they've intercepted it and then fumbled. That GQ play was the first time I can remember ever seeing a guy do what he was coached to do (Knock it DOWN) and it backfire.

The Pencil Neck
08-07-2011, 08:56 PM
Read Lucky's reply. He is saying what I am saying: Can't get a good read on the ball, or out of position? Flail away! But if you can, wrap two hands around it and secure it.

Quin could have caught the ball. Manning DID catch the ball.

Grandstanding play? Puhleeze! If catching the ball and falling to the ground with it, causing a turnover, and ending the game, is grandstanding...then I love me some grandstanding.

The world was once flat, too, ya' know. There's coaches out there right now who are not teaching the idea that every situation requires batting it down.

Just from a pure logical standpoint, it makes more sense to use two hands and try for the catch rather than simply playing volleyball with it. Unless, of course, other factors get in the way of that ideal situation. But to say Quin did the right thing, but just failed at it? Will never accept that as Gospel truth. he could have caught that ball. He did what he was coached to do, but that doesn't mean it's infallible and sacred to always do what you're coached to do.

And either Danieal Manning ignored that sacred command, or he was taught otherwise. Either way, he made a better play in a similar situation that Quin did vs. Jags. Just another reason why I have hope in the Texans this year--A d-coord who knows his shit, and at least ONE secondary player who is a baller and won't hesitate out there. Paralysis by analysis is what doomed the Texans defense for the past four years--Too much thinking and not enough instinct.

So what did an NFL safety say he'd been coached to do? Go back and read my quote.

Allstar
08-07-2011, 09:18 PM
I'm sure that in certain situations it might be better to secure the int, but you can bet your bottom dollar that David Gibbs and Frank Bush grabbed every DB before that play and told them to knock the ball down. You can't fault Quin for following the coach's orders.

drs23
08-07-2011, 10:40 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEvHC1eOdlo&feature=player_embedded

Matt Jackson's TC thoughts.

Thanks b0ng. Sounded like a non-biased evaluation. He had the same impression of Watt as everyone else I've heard report about him. Outside linebacker play sounds like a echo from this MB since the switch was announced. The FA pick ups sound really promising.

KJ fell down. Again.

GP
08-08-2011, 12:15 AM
So what did an NFL safety say he'd been coached to do? Go back and read my quote.

We can do this all year long if we want to.

I can go and find quotes to support my theory, too. Fire fights fire, etc.

If you have the chance to get under a ball, with plenty of time to put your ass into the WR's belly and basically "block out" the WR, would YOU, Pencil Neck, try to knock the ball down or would you try to time the jump and catch it with both hands (thumbs together, fingers spread wide like a catcher's mitt in front of your facemask)?

I'd wager that there are coaches out there right now who (a) teach what I'm saying, or (b) didn't teach it before but watched the lowlights of the Texans-Jags game and are teaching it NOW.

My argument is not if that's what David "I Suck And Get Fired From Every Team I Coach DBs For" Gibbs taught him or not. My argument is against the idea itself and if it's even the right thing to do or not.

You're trying to say it's LAW that you knock that ball down, and I call bullshit on that. It is a questionable teaching before Quin screwed it up, it is definitely questionable now, and there are coaches out there who had been teaching to "catch if you can" and there are some teaching it now who didn't previously.

All I'm saying is that a lot of you guys got on here and started piling on as if I didn't know anything about football, and it turns out that GP might not just be spitballin' on this particular topic. Fair enough? If not, then you're wanting to argue for the sake of arguing, IMO.

Allstar
08-08-2011, 12:17 AM
We can do this all year long if we want to.

I can go and find quotes to support my theory, too. Fire fights fire, etc.


I would very much like you to find a quote that supports intercepting a ball in a hail mary situation.

GP
08-08-2011, 12:28 AM
I would very much like you to find a quote that supports intercepting a ball in a hail mary situation.

I can find anything I want. Hell, I can go survey the Amarillo-area high school coaches and ask them personally.

This, of course, never satisfies the person who says "You're STILL wrong," because they can say my sources are weak or fake or whatever.

The point here is that there are some grown-ass men on here acting like there's an irrefutable, 10 Commandments Law on what to do when in a Hail Mary situation.

I have given this topic more time and energy than it deserves. I feel most people who don't have a dog in this fight can see what I'm saying, and they know that at this point this is just a pissing contest between me and 2 or 3 posters on here.

BFD. Look THAT up and tell me what it means.

This would be funny if it were not so terribly sad. Lucky goes and gives evidence of a pretty "decent" Safety (Manning) going up and bringing the ball back down in his hands, and somehow I still have to find ONE quote from some obscure coach somewhere in order to prove the world is not flat like everybody says it is. LOL.

Rey
08-08-2011, 01:49 AM
I can find anything I want. Hell, I can go survey the Amarillo-area high school coaches and ask them personally.

This, of course, never satisfies the person who says "You're STILL wrong," because they can say my sources are weak or fake or whatever.

The point here is that there are some grown-ass men on here acting like there's an irrefutable, 10 Commandments Law on what to do when in a Hail Mary situation.

I have given this topic more time and energy than it deserves. I feel most people who don't have a dog in this fight can see what I'm saying, and they know that at this point this is just a pissing contest between me and 2 or 3 posters on here.

BFD. Look THAT up and tell me what it means.

This would be funny if it were not so terribly sad. Lucky goes and gives evidence of a pretty "decent" Safety (Manning) going up and bringing the ball back down in his hands, and somehow I still have to find ONE quote from some obscure coach somewhere in order to prove the world is not flat like everybody says it is. LOL.

It's ok to disagree with people.

I completely disagree with you or anyone who says that you go for the int in an end of the game final heave situation.

I don't know every coach ever, but I have been around a lot of coaches and a lot football. I have always heard bat the ball down in end of the game situations like that. I have been on the winning team in college where a db tried to catch the ball and our wr caught it and the stands rushed the field.

We practiced that play "hope right" which was just a 'bunch' to the right. The lead wr was supposed to go up and high point the ball and the two trailing receivers were taught to look for the rebound. I never thought we'd run that play, but that that one play we ran like two times at the end of every practice paid off.

I have also been in quite a few games where we were the team yelling at the db's to knock the ball down and it worked.

Look you can have your opinion but I think you are wrong.

As an offensive player you'd rather the db go for the catch because that keeps the play alive. Batting the ball down is designed to end the play as quickly as possible. When people go up for catches balls ricochet softly. The slightest bobble can allow a receiver to get a hand in there.

If a receiver happens to get his hand on the ball and catches it with the db, the ball always goes to the offense.

Lots of crazy catches in football history where one player juggles it or tries to catch it and the other guy somehow lucks into a catchable ball.

It's about minimizing the possible negative outcomes. Spiking the ball away from traffic does that.

If you coach a team little league or whatever, you can teach them to go for the catch. I think it's safe to say that most coaches are going to stick with the swat the ball down approach though. It had worked many times over again. And if I coach little league again I will tell the defense what I have told them in the past. Swat the ball away as hard as you can.

Rey
08-08-2011, 01:57 AM
Just one more question.

I mentioned all of the crazy catches there have been when db's go for picks. I have been in and seen games where a db goes for a pick at the end of the game and a wr catches it off the rebound.

Exactly how many times have you seen a gq situation where the guy bats the ball right to a wr?

ObsiWan
08-08-2011, 02:03 AM
This whole spike it vs. make the INT is goofy. If the DB can make the catch, then he should catch it. To me that's the surest way to make sure no one else has it. As we witnessed to our horror, spiking the ball wasn't a 100% foolproof way of keeping it away from the WRs now was it? Defending that strategy smacks of a "that's the way we've always done it" thought process. And "the way we've always done it" led to us losing a game we could have/should have won.

Rey
08-08-2011, 02:19 AM
This whole spike it vs. make the INT is goofy. If the DB can make the catch, then he should catch it. To me that's the surest way to make sure no one else has it. As we witnessed to our horror, spiking the ball wasn't a 100% foolproof way of keeping it away from the WRs now was it? Defending that strategy smacks of a "that's the way we've always done it" thought process. And "the way we've always done it" led to us losing a game we could have/should have won.

I think I answered everything you mentioned here in my post above, but I'll answer it again.

It's not about it being 100 percent anything. It's about decreasing the chances.

No one is going to chew a player out if he catches it, but if he tries to and misses and the wr comes up with it the coach is going to say something.

It's not about the way you've wHs done it an sticking to it for that purpose alone. Its about a method that has worked a plethora of times, but the only time most everyone has seen it backfire happened to be when gq tried it and failed.

Exactly how many times have you guys seen that happen?

That was the only time ever for me.

So now people are supposed to change something they know mostly works because of one fluke play?

ObsiWan
08-08-2011, 02:41 AM
The ultimate goal of either technique is to make sure the other guy doesn't catch it.
If that means spiking the ball, then spike the hell out of it.
If that means the making the INT, then by all means catch the damned ball, wrap it up, and take a knee.
We've seen any number of DBs make the pick to end a game too.
:fans:

Allstar
08-08-2011, 03:05 AM
I'm not arguing whether or not you should or shouldn't go for the int, I'm saying that batting the ball down is the way it's taught at all levels, universally. I'd actually be surprised to find any coach that teaches otherwise.

There's just way too much uncertainty given each situation and way too may dumb players out there for you to tell your players "go for the pick if it feels right." The safe bet is to tell your guys to knock it on the ground to avoid bobbling/tipping it.

I can find anything I want. Hell, I can go survey the Amarillo-area high school coaches and ask them personally.


I still find this hard to believe. Everyone, and i mean Everyone teaches to swat it down in a hail mary.

djohn2oo8
08-08-2011, 08:04 AM
Sure we've all been taught to bat it down, however, the ball was heading for his chest as he jumped, to which he didn't even bat straight down. Batting the ball outwards to give extra hangtime is just poor technique.

GP
08-08-2011, 09:15 AM
The ultimate goal of either technique is to make sure the other guy doesn't catch it.
If that means spiking the ball, then spike the hell out of it.
If that means the making the INT, then by all means catch the damned ball, wrap it up, and take a knee.
We've seen any number of DBs make the pick to end a game too.
:fans:

Yet we're told that it's 100% "knock it down" 24/7/365.

If it's Gospel truth to knock it down and never go for the pick, then why do we see games end on a pick (whether it's a hail mary or not is not the issue either).

Do those players get suspended for violating coach's rules? No.

Nobody wants to admit that we could have won that game if Quin had just caught the ball and rolled to the ground. Instead, he was just doing what he was told...but did it poorly. Fine. He should have disobeyed orders.

thunderkyss
08-08-2011, 09:21 AM
This whole spike it vs. make the INT is goofy. If the DB can make the catch, then he should catch it. To me that's the surest way to make sure no one else has it. As we witnessed to our horror, spiking the ball wasn't a 100% foolproof way of keeping it away from the WRs now was it? Defending that strategy smacks of a "that's the way we've always done it" thought process. And "the way we've always done it" led to us losing a game we could have/should have won.

I agree 100%

But that is not the norm in the NFL.

For years, watching football. It has been my understanding that guys who are fast & can catch the ball play on the offensive side of the ball. They're wide receivers.

Guys who are fast, but can't catch a ball, play defense.

When you put your hands guys in on ST.. or a suspected hail mary, you'll see WRs out there, not DBs.... for a reason.

Some CBs have good hands, & can catch just as well as any WR.... maybe they can't run routes, or can't figure out a play book. Who knows.

But yes, if I've got Deon Sanders in the end-zone, in that situation, I want him to catch the ball & take it to the house.

If I've got Glover Quin, Kareem Jackson, Jason Allen, Bernard Pollard, Eugene Wilson or Troy Nolan, I want them to know the ball out of play... straight down if possible.

Glover didn't do either... so there you go.

The ultimate goal of either technique is to make sure the other guy doesn't catch it.
If that means spiking the ball, then spike the hell out of it.
If that means the making the INT, then by all means catch the damned ball, wrap it up, and take a knee.
We've seen any number of DBs make the pick to end a game too.
:fans:


Uh.. yeah, that's what I meant to say.

Doppelganger
08-08-2011, 09:25 AM
Shocker. Guy just doesn't look like a football player. Didn't last year, doesn't this year

I think he is a Nickle corner. Have the play in front of him and he can make the tackles. Have him try to run down the field and he will get blown up.

Doppelganger
08-08-2011, 09:28 AM
I'm beginning to wonder if he watches film, studies routes at all, or just isn't smart enough to "get it." Maybe he's not even coachable! Who knows! BUT, I sure as hell DO NOT want to go through another "KJ is learning year."

It may also be the case he plateaued.

GP
08-08-2011, 09:28 AM
I think he is a Nickle corner. Have the play in front of him and he can make the tackles. Have him try to run down the field and he will get blown up.

Nickel at best, off the team at worst.

I don't even want him as CB depth. He's not an NFL cornerback. He didn't look like one last year, he doesn't look like one in camp this year.

You either have it or you don't. The only guy on our team who shows flashes and has rightfully been given time to develop is Jacoby Jones, and even HE finds ways to score TDs, make first downs, make big gains, return punts for TDs, etc. Big play "stuff" that KJ can't claim. Although he did have one interception vs. Dallas, IIRC. Still, he's pretty piss poor out there.

Doppelganger
08-08-2011, 09:29 AM
http://www.texansbullpen.com/11photogallery/Preseason/2011-08-07-TrainingCamp/Photos-album.htm

photo 62 confirms Vickers belly is big haha

Vickers is on the Ron Dayne diet!

Doppelganger
08-08-2011, 09:32 AM
Nickel at best, off the team at worst.

I don't even want him as CB depth. He's not an NFL cornerback. He didn't look like one last year, he doesn't look like one in camp this year.

You either have it or you don't. The only guy on our team who shows flashes and has rightfully been given time to develop is Jacoby Jones, and even HE finds ways to score TDs, make first downs, make big gains, return punts for TDs, etc. Big play "stuff" that KJ can't claim. Although he did have one interception vs. Dallas, IIRC. Still, he's pretty piss poor out there.

He did only have 1 season though and piss poor coaching last year. Let's see what a year of real coaching do for him. If he can't hack it this year, then yeah he should probably be dumped.

Seńor Stan
08-08-2011, 09:32 AM
Vickers is on the Ron Dayne diet!

Nooooooooo!!!!

Sincerely,

Charles Spencer

BigBull17
08-08-2011, 10:25 AM
He did only have 1 season though and piss poor coaching last year. Let's see what a year of real coaching do for him. If he can't hack it this year, then yeah he should probably be dumped.

Piss poor coaching for sure, but that doesn't explain the lack of foot speed and falling down non stop.

Honoring Earl 34
08-08-2011, 10:38 AM
Piss poor coaching for sure, but that doesn't explain the lack of foot speed and falling down non stop.

These dudes train to hit a 4.4 forty one time at the combine . I'd say it's much more important to see if they play fast on film or have a track background .

bo orlando
08-08-2011, 12:26 PM
This whole spike it vs. make the INT is goofy. If the DB can make the catch, then he should catch it. To me that's the surest way to make sure no one else has it. As we witnessed to our horror, spiking the ball wasn't a 100% foolproof way of keeping it away from the WRs now was it? Defending that strategy smacks of a "that's the way we've always done it" thought process. And "the way we've always done it" led to us losing a game we could have/should have won.

knock it down is pretty much common sense when you think about it, the reason simply being that more things can go wrong when you try to catch a ball compared to when you try to knock it down. since catching a ball requires securing it with two hands and/or two hands and chest, you also need to get the ball slow and steady enough in order to secure it. when you try to knock it down, all you need to do is get one paw on it, and hit it in a fast, downward motion.

when trying for the catch you could bobble it, the opposing team could snatch it out of your grasp while trying to secure it, you could whiff (particularly troublesome on high passes), you could get hit hard while securing the catch and drop it. and all this is magnified, of course, when you consider that the offense is going to have its best receivers on the field in a hail mary and the defense is going to have DB's and perhaps the odd wide receiver.

dsorc
08-08-2011, 12:41 PM
I think people are overreacting on Kareem Jackson. After his bad year, everybody is just waiting for him to falter so every little mistake he makes has been magnified. Why don't we wait until the preseason games to see if he's gotten any better? I'm not saying he should be anointed as the starter, I'm just saying he's being looked as a scapegoat as the last remnant of last year's awful secondary. We should wait and see on who wins the competition for CB#2.

Wolf6151
08-08-2011, 01:13 PM
I agree with dsorc on this issue. KJ was thrown into an impossible situation last year, a rookie starting at the CB1 spot with no FS help and terrible coaching. No one would have succeded in that situation. Even Aso and Revis weren't great until their 3rd year in the league and they weren't put in the impossible/no win situation that Kubiak threw KJ into. Looking for someone to blame for our terrible secondary last year look at Kubiak and Smith. I agree that every time KJ does something wrong it's overblown as if he's the only player to make mistakes. Cut the guy some slack, again he didn't make that ridiculous comment about himself, "He's the most pro ready CB in the draft" that was Kubiak and KJ isn't responsible for the Texans taking him in the 1st round that was Kubiak as well. Give the guy a chance. If he's still terrible and not showing any signs of improvement by the end of this season then their should be reason for concern.

As for this season I think Joseph will be CB1, Allen CB2, Harris and Jackson will be nickle and dime. I'm wondering if there will be a 5th CB and if so who it will be. McMannis?

Grams
08-08-2011, 01:37 PM
I thought this thread was for training camp updates??
Hard to see any with all this debate over batted balls.

Did we not have page after page after page about the batted ball by Quinn last year?

Wolf6151
08-08-2011, 01:46 PM
I thought this thread was for training camp updates??
Hard to see any with all this debate over batted balls.

Did we not have page after page after page about the batted ball by Quinn last year?

Well said. Thank You.

Tailgate
08-08-2011, 02:26 PM
Texans 2 deep depth chart after week 1 according to the Chron....

Offense

WR1.....Andre Johnson........Dorin Dickerson
LT........Duane Brown..........Rashad Butler
LG.......Wade Smith............Shelley Smith
C.........Chris Myers.............Mike Brisiel
RG.......Antoine Caldwell......Mike Brisiel
RT........Eric Winston...........Rashad Butler
TE........Owen Daniels..........Joel Dreesen
WR2.....Kevin Walters..........Jacoby Jones

QB.......Matt Schaub............Matt Leinart
RB........Arian Foster............Derrick Ward
FB........James Casey...........Lawrence Vickers

Defense

LE.........J.J. Watt................Damione Lewis
NT.........Earl Mitchell...........Shaun Cody
RE.........Antonio Smith.........Tim Bulman

LOB.......Connor Barwin.........Brooks Reed
LIB........Brian Cushing..........Darryl Sharpton
RIB........Demeco Ryans.........Stanford Keglar
ROB.......Mario Williams.........Xavier Adibi

CB1.......Johnathan Joseph......Brandon Harris
CB2.......Kareem Jackson........Brice McCain
SS.........Glover Quin..............Dominique Barber
FS.........Danieal Manning........Troy Nolan

Special Teams
FG.........Neil Rackers
P...........Brad Maynard
DS.........Jon Weeks
KR.........Trindon Holliday
PR.........Jacoby Jones


http://www.chron.com/sports/photogallery/2011_Texans_depth_chart.html#27385970

redwhiteANDblue
08-08-2011, 04:17 PM
Texans 2 deep depth chart after week 1 according to the Chron....

Offense

WR1.....Andre Johnson........Dorin Dickerson
LT........Duane Brown..........Rashad Butler
LG.......Wade Smith............Shelley Smith
C.........Chris Myers.............Mike Brisiel
RG.......Antoine Caldwell......Mike Brisiel
RT........Eric Winston...........Rashad Butler
TE........Owen Daniels..........Joel Dreesen
WR2.....Kevin Walters..........Jacoby Jones

QB.......Matt Schaub............Matt Leinart
RB........Arian Foster............Derrick Ward
FB........James Casey...........Lawrence Vickers

Defense

LE.........J.J. Watt................Damione Lewis
NT.........Earl Mitchell...........Shaun Cody
RE.........Antonio Smith.........Tim Bulman

LOB.......Connor Barwin.........Brooks Reed
LIB........Brian Cushing..........Darryl Sharpton
RIB........Demeco Ryans.........Stanford Keglar
ROB.......Mario Williams.........Xavier Adibi

CB1.......Johnathan Joseph......Brandon Harris
CB2.......Kareem Jackson........Brice McCain
SS.........Glover Quin..............Dominique Barber
FS.........Danieal Manning........Troy Nolan

Special Teams
FG.........Neil Rackers
P...........Brad Maynard
DS.........Jon Weeks
KR.........Trindon Holliday
PR.........Jacoby Jones


http://www.chron.com/sports/photogallery/2011_Texans_depth_chart.html#27385970


That's CB2 line isn't looking good. Kjax and mmcain? And no sign of jason allen. Wow this is going to be interesting

ObsiWan
08-08-2011, 05:55 PM
That's CB2 line isn't looking good. Kjax and mmcain? And no sign of jason allen. Wow this is going to be interesting

Yeah... where is Jason Allen? What happened that he's not at least #2 at the CB-2 spot?

Public Enemy #1
http://images.chron.com/photos/2011/08/03/27379136/600xPopupGallery.jpg
:D

redwhiteANDblue
08-08-2011, 06:11 PM
Brandon Harris INT (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TQGsy9wASs)

texanchris
08-08-2011, 06:17 PM
Who's looking more impressive at nose tackle so far?

GP
08-08-2011, 06:18 PM
Brandon Harris INT (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TQGsy9wASs)

Ballhawking skills. He got 'em.

I know he's 2nd on the CB1 position (behind J Joseph) but in all seriousness, I think he could be CB2 by the time reg season hits. Gotta' have a good preseason, though. If he does, and KJ looks like KJ...I will be disappointed that we didn't put Harris at CB2 opposite J Joseph.

Play your best players, round you were picked in makes no difference. In theory, at least.

GP
08-08-2011, 06:19 PM
Brandon Harris INT (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TQGsy9wASs)

Rep your way, by the way. Thank you for posting the video.

redwhiteANDblue
08-08-2011, 06:25 PM
Rep your way, by the way. Thank you for posting the video.

lol well thanks for the rep but it wasn't me that uploaded it, I just found it. Tomorrow I'll be getting my own videos and it should be good quality too

GP
08-08-2011, 08:02 PM
lol well thanks for the rep but it wasn't me that uploaded it, I just found it. Tomorrow I'll be getting my own videos and it should be good quality too

You posted it, we wouldn't have seen it without you.

Also, I look forward to seeing YOUR videos when you can get 'em posted.

Wolf
08-08-2011, 08:11 PM
GEEZ ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cakCcliNPXg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueugOWJ9aeo&feature=related

first link is a 90 yard KO
second link that Earl put up was hangtime on KO of 4.4,4.56 and finally 4.63

nice find Earl

gary
08-08-2011, 08:52 PM
Ballhawking skills. He got 'em.

I know he's 2nd on the CB1 position (behind J Joseph) but in all seriousness, I think he could be CB2 by the time reg season hits. Gotta' have a good preseason, though. If he does, and KJ looks like KJ...I will be disappointed that we didn't put Harris at CB2 opposite J Joseph.

Play your best players, round you were picked in makes no difference. In theory, at least.Earl Mitchael has been the guy thus far.

Wolf
08-08-2011, 09:10 PM
AJ's:Texans training camp notes: Sunday, August 7

The Texans completed their first week of training camp with a two-hour practice Sunday morning in front of another packed house at Methodist Training Center.

Nearly 4,000 fans attended practice on Saturday, according to reports, and Sunday's crowd looked to be about the same.

Bleachers and endzones were packed with fans, but with a little more cloud cover and a nice breeze out of the south it didn't seem near as hot this morning as it did on Saturday.

Random observations from practice:

The team practiced in shells today (helmets, shoulder pads and shorts). Call it a light contact session.
During individual position work, the DBs worked on corner blitz drills. One player wearing a large pad on his outside arm lined up opposite the 'blitzing corner'. At the snap, the corner blitzed and worked on hand technique, chopping the blockers outside arm as he rushed the simulated QB which was played by a coach.

The linebackers did similar drills yesterday and today - there's lots of teaching going on with various hand techniques, i.e., slaps, chops, etc., associated with shedding and getting around blockers.

Heard in the crowd: "90 guys out here is crazy looking." Actually, 89 if new signing Dobbins made it into town, but yes it's a crowded practice field out there. Normally rosters are at 80 this time of year.

I'm not sure I'm buying into the James Casey at fullback experiment. Casey is a ripped 6-3, 245 but he doesn't have a fullback body - at least not a lead blocking back's body. I like those squatty 5-11, 250 lb guys with a lower center of gravity that can get up and under a linebacker's pads and into their chest.

Seventh round draft pick Derek Newton is one big fella. Listed at 6-6, 314 and looking every bit of it, Newton, a backup offensive tackle, doesn't have much of a chance to make the 53 but he should be a good candidate for the practice squad

Andre Johnson practiced and looked great. Brian Cushing did not practice and was wearing a large ice wrap on his right knee during part of the practice. WR Paul Williams and RB Arian Foster were on excercise bikes at the start of practice and watched from the sideline. Ben Tate came out but his hamstring tightened during warmups and he was excused. WR Terrence Toliver was out sick.

Linebackers did a little drop and cover drill where they had to shuffle laterally over pads on the ground, then drop and react to a ball thrown by Reggie Herring (who has a hard time throwing a spiral apparently)

Vance Joseph spent a fair amount of time with the DBs drilling foot and hand placement during press coverage. Wade Phillips was watching intently






Continue reading on Examiner.com Texans training camp notes: Sunday, August 7 - Houston Houston Texans | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/houston-texans-in-houston/training-camp-notes-sunday-august-7#ixzz1UUfdDDjx

badboy
08-08-2011, 09:14 PM
The best part today was during line drills. Antonio Smith was up and got his upper body too far forward on the rush. He did a beautiful face-plant in the grass.

Even better was Cody making fun of him afterward! :texflag:Did he get a personal foul for hitting the ground?

badboy
08-08-2011, 09:18 PM
These dudes train to hit a 4.4 forty one time at the combine . I'd say it's much more important to see if they play fast on film or have a track background .Don't disagree with your point but WRs, RBs, CBs and safeties are tested in the 40 in high school and college not just the combine. It is an important test for most if not all 32 teams.

badboy
08-08-2011, 09:22 PM
I think people are overreacting on Kareem Jackson. After his bad year, everybody is just waiting for him to falter so every little mistake he makes has been magnified. Why don't we wait until the preseason games to see if he's gotten any better? I'm not saying he should be anointed as the starter, I'm just saying he's being looked as a scapegoat as the last remnant of last year's awful secondary. We should wait and see on who wins the competition for CB#2.I will speak for myself after immediately blasting the pick when he was drafted. I react to him being a first round pick from a noted college coach (Saban) who ran a "pro style"defense. KJ was labeled by some as the most "NFL ready CB" in the draft.

I do agree we should give him more time but he should have made some progress by now & I have not reead one positive note on this.

Wolf
08-08-2011, 09:28 PM
http://thexlog.com/201108061851/xtra-point-football/nfl/houston-texans-training-camp-report/

Houston Texans Training Camp Report

Jayson Braddock
By Jayson Braddock
NFL Scout
August 6th, 2011

I waited until August 4th to finally head out to Houston Texans’ training camp. That’s the day the league year started and it also allowed enough time for players to put the pads back on. It’s my favorite time of the season. At this time of year every fan base has high hopes; rookies are living out their dreams, and the whole season ahead of us. I’m based out of Houston, so most of my work will be what I’ve seen at Texans camp.

The morning practice had all of the action in it but the afternoon saw Johnathan Joseph, Danieal Manning, Jacoby Jones, Matt Leinart, etc. all get to practice for the first time as the league had a rule to not allow free agents and restructured contracted player to practice until after 4 pm EST on August 4th. Let’s break down what I saw at both of them.


if this was quoted earlier, my apologizes

Crushing56
08-08-2011, 09:38 PM
Nickel at best, off the team at worst.


PS at best, off the team at worst.
Fixed it bro. :fingergun:

Rey
08-08-2011, 09:46 PM
Continue reading on Examiner.com Texans training camp notes: Sunday, August 7 - Houston Houston Texans | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/houston-texans-in-houston/training-camp-notes-sunday-august-7#ixzz1UUfdDDjx

A little hard to read, but some really good info in there.

mussop
08-08-2011, 10:09 PM
Mario is getting held a lot. And when he's not being held, Williams will run himself out of a play and forget backside contain. It's going to be a problem if he doesn't figure this out.



This was Marios biggest problem at DE. I'm hoping Phillips will break him of this. Hell maybe they should of moved him inside and put Cushing on the outside. Thd more I think about it the more that makes sense.

GP
08-08-2011, 10:14 PM
http://thexlog.com/201108061851/xtra-point-football/nfl/houston-texans-training-camp-report/



if this was quoted earlier, my apologizes

That was a great wrap-up you posted, even if it was from a few days ago!

I have a hunch that Jason Allen will be CB2, but the coaches are putting KJ and McCain in there with as many reps as they can get juuuuuust to make sure.

There is no way an honest man would start either those guys over Jason Allen. You just don't do it. I'm not saying KJ has to get cut THIS year, but he sure doesn't have to be the automatic CB2 out there in game 1.

Look for the Texans to start KJ in as many preseason games as they can, trying to watch him and see how he handles facing other offenses and their top QBs and WRs.

The more I think about this, and the more I hear people say how horribly mediocre KJ looks compared to others, I get to the point that I have to think they're doing everything they can to give KJ as many "live ammunition" sessions as they can...to see if he's going to sink or swim.

And that's going to continue into the preseason games too. People are going to freak out that he's out there running with the 1's in preseason, but I think you have to judge it as being done for evaluation purposes.

Sink. Or swim.

Rey
08-08-2011, 10:20 PM
This was Marios biggest problem at DE. I'm hoping Phillips will break him of this. Hell maybe they should of moved him inside and put Cushing on the outside. Thd more I think about it the more that makes sense.

When Mario was a rookie he did the same thing.

I think he just needs to get used to playing his new position. No reason other than a mental breakdown as to why he'd lose backside contain.

And really I'd have to see the play myself to say it's his fault. More people than Mario are responsible for the cutback.

Lucky
08-09-2011, 12:26 AM
I don't know where they came up with this depth chart, but there's a lot I'm not buying.

C.........Chris Myers.............Mike Brisiel (Has Brisiel taken any snaps at Center? Maybe he will, but Wallace is running 2nd team, right now)

NT.........Earl Mitchell...........Shaun Cody (It might shake out that way by the opener, but Cody has run with the 1st team more)

LOB.......Connor Barwin.........Brooks Reed (Reed has actually been playing the weakside, running 2nd team behind Mario. Nading has played behind Barwin)

RIB........Demeco Ryans.........Stanford Keglar (Adibi has gotten more snaps with the 2nd team at this spot)

ROB.......Mario Williams.........Xavier Adibi (And Adibi has not played OLB at all)

CB1.......Johnathan Joseph......Brandon Harris (This would be Jason Allen)

SS.........Glover Quin..............Dominique Barber (Nope, Quinton Demps has been 2nd team)

Did the Chronic even bother sending a reporter to watch the practices?

The Pencil Neck
08-09-2011, 12:27 AM
I don't know where they came up with this depth chart, but there's a lot I'm not buying.

C.........Chris Myers.............Mike Brisiel (Has Brisiel taken any snaps at Center? Maybe he will, but Wallace is running 2nd team, right now)

NT.........Earl Mitchell...........Shaun Cody (It might shake out that way by the opener, but Cody has run with the 1st team more)

LOB.......Connor Barwin.........Brooks Reed (Reed has actually been playing the weakside, running 2nd team behind Mario. Nading has played behind Barwin)

RIB........Demeco Ryans.........Stanford Keglar (Adibi has gotten more snaps with the 2nd team at this spot)

ROB.......Mario Williams.........Xavier Adibi (And Adibi has not played OLB at all)

CB1.......Johnathan Joseph......Brandon Harris (This would be Jason Allen)

SS.........Glover Quin..............Dominique Barber (Nope, Quinton Demps has been 2nd team)

Did the Chronic even bother sending a reporter to watch the practices?

I was wondering. From what I saw in the pictures and what people had said about different guys running with the 2s, it didn't seem to jibe to me.

Wolf6151
08-09-2011, 12:40 AM
Look for the Texans to start KJ in as many preseason games as they can, trying to watch him and see how he handles facing other offenses and their top QBs and WRs.

The more I think about this, and the more I hear people say how horribly mediocre KJ looks compared to others, I get to the point that I have to think they're doing everything they can to give KJ as many "live ammunition" sessions as they can...to see if he's going to sink or swim.

And that's going to continue into the preseason games too. People are going to freak out that he's out there running with the 1's in preseason, but I think you have to judge it as being done for evaluation purposes.

Sink. Or swim.


I've been thinking the same thing for a few days. Kubiak doesn't like admitting that he's wrong about a pick to the point of detriment to the team. I think they'll give KJ every chance they can in preseason to prove himself. People on this board really are going to freak out when they see KJ starting every game in preseason. The coaching staff will watch him like a hawk and analyze every move he makes trying to make him better. He might get better by the end of the season but I don't expect much improvement by the end of training camp, just not enough time. At best he's the nickle or most likely the dime.

pbat488
08-09-2011, 12:46 AM
Nickel at best, off the team at worst.

PS at best, off the team at worst.
Fixed it bro. :fingergun:

actually, you didn't. kjax has played more than 9 regular season games and been on the active roster for an entire year, therefore making him ineligible to be on the practice squad.

Rey
08-09-2011, 12:51 AM
I've been thinking the same thing for a few days. Kubiak doesn't like admitting that he's wrong about a pick to the point of detriment to the team. I think they'll give KJ every chance they can in preseason to prove himself. People on this board really are going to freak out when they see KJ starting every game in preseason. The coaching staff will watch him like a hawk and analyze every move he makes trying to make him better. He might get better by the end of the season but I don't expect much improvement by the end of training camp, just not enough time. At best he's the nickle or most likely the dime.

If Jackson sucks I can't see them not trying something different in the second or third game.

Hopefully kj plays well, but if he doesn't you have to figure out who can and the only way to do that is to test them out.

beerlover
08-09-2011, 01:25 AM
From a draft perspective once that particular draft has been completed, where they were drafted makes little difference it's history. Of course you hope scouting department is on the money, coaches can mold him to fit scheme & if everything goes to plan you have a productive football player.

Talking with Sabin (radio) when he was in town, mentioned Kareem strugled as a freshman, much like he did as a rookie with the Texans. His next season made the adjustment, never looking back, just a real solid corner. I would suggest Texans follow a similar path & don't just give up on Kareem. He needs more positive reps, strengthen his footwork & stay looser in his hips, so he can come in & out of his breaks smoother. He's got excellent size, tough & will compete. Now he is competiting to earn his old job against some serious corners, just the way he likes it as proven @ Alabama.

That's as close to endorsement as it gets, rest is up to him :fingergun:

ObsiWan
08-09-2011, 03:17 AM
I have a hunch that Jason Allen will be CB2, but the coaches are putting KJ and McCain in there with as many reps as they can get juuuuuust to make sure.

There is no way an honest man would start either those guys over Jason Allen. You just don't do it. I'm not saying KJ has to get cut THIS year, but he sure doesn't have to be the automatic CB2 out there in game 1.

Look for the Texans to start KJ in as many preseason games as they can, trying to watch him and see how he handles facing other offenses and their top QBs and WRs.

The more I think about this, and the more I hear people say how horribly mediocre KJ looks compared to others, I get to the point that I have to think they're doing everything they can to give KJ as many "live ammunition" sessions as they can...to see if he's going to sink or swim.

And that's going to continue into the preseason games too. People are going to freak out that he's out there running with the 1's in preseason, but I think you have to judge it as being done for evaluation purposes.

Sink. Or swim.

Yet one wonders who is pushing this strategy. Both Wade and DB coach Joseph just got here and (I suspect) pushed to draft Harris for CB. So they don't have any ties to KJ. Why would they give him so much rope? It's not just Kubiak's job on the line but Wade's rep as a defensive makeover magician is at stake too.

Something about this just doesn't add up. I hope Uncle Bob hasn't adapted a new "project".

thunderkyss
08-09-2011, 09:23 AM
Yet one wonders who is pushing this strategy. Both Wade and DB coach Joseph just got here and (I suspect) pushed to draft Harris for CB. So they don't have any ties to KJ. Why would they give him so much rope? It's not just Kubiak's job on the line but Wade's rep as a defensive makeover magician is at stake too.

Something about this just doesn't add up. I hope Uncle Bob hasn't adapted a new "project".

The first six weeks, we'll probably be playing the nickel more than anything. All three guys will be on the field alot.

So they probably don't care.

After that, I'm sure the CB situation will work itself out. & if KJac isn't the 2nd best guy on the roster, I don't think Wade would hesitate to play the best guys.

b0ng
08-09-2011, 09:35 AM
Lots of good tweets (and some bad)

BigRon281 BigRon
Manning, Holliday, McManis, and Townsel working KR. Manning clearly the guy. Just broke one. Holliday catching securely is a good sight.


PHABMK6 Patrick D. Starr
Schaub TD against Jackson. Hitch an stiff arm TD. #Texans
43 minutes ago

BigRon281 BigRon
Matt Leinart with the dime to Graham on a corner route. Lovely touch. #Texans made the right move w/ Matt over Dan O at #2 QB.
48 minutes ago

PHABMK6 Patrick D. Starr
Winston has to hold Barwin at the point of attack. Barrwin faster. #Texans
51 minutes ago

BigRon281 BigRon
Much more disruptive than what I saw Sat. In the backfield on several snaps, run and pass. RT @derekt529: what Mario out there doin?
26 minutes ago

BigRon281 BigRon
Good morning for @scorindorin out here also. Fade TD catch over J-Jo and another just now over McCain at about the 4-yd line. Both in 7-on-7
2 minutes ago

Patrick Starr's twitter handle is @PHABMK6

GP
08-09-2011, 10:20 AM
Yet one wonders who is pushing this strategy. Both Wade and DB coach Joseph just got here and (I suspect) pushed to draft Harris for CB. So they don't have any ties to KJ. Why would they give him so much rope? It's not just Kubiak's job on the line but Wade's rep as a defensive makeover magician is at stake too.

Something about this just doesn't add up. I hope Uncle Bob hasn't adapted a new "project".

We put KJ out at CB2 last season, right off the bat.

We just drafted Harris. I think they're going to sacrifice (let go of) evaluating what Harris can do against opposing 1st teamers (in preseason) so that (A) Kareem gets the most looks at CB2 vs. opposing 1st teamers, and (B) Harris gets to play 2nd teamers and build his confidence.

In short: Protect the psyche of Harris (as he slows down and learns) and make KJ prove that he can handle being CB2.

So far, I don't buy the lip service being served up by any of the Texans coaches. They're going to say the right things at all times, even up to the day KJ is demoted. An outside shot exists whereby we see KJ at CB2 in reg season, but I hope it never happens.

For me, I'm just praying they aren't taking J Joseph and Manning for granted...meaning that those two guys can cover for KJ's lack of talent.

At this point, you don't yoke a mule (KJ) to two horses (Maning/Joseph) on the speed buggy Wade is building. To do so, IMO, would be jeopardizing the things McNair set out to do: Hire a good d-coord who has a good system, draft heavy on defense, and acquire GOOD free agents at S and CB.

Kareem Jackson has a focus problem, an instinct problem, and just generally seems LOST out there. If he's going to watch games, he needs to do it from the stands and not out on the field where opposing o-coordinators are going to hammer his ass play after play.

Unless a switch flips in his head, I see no reason the guy should be a 1st teamer. But I have seen the Texans stick with guys for years and years (Amobi, Travis Johnson, etc.) and I am fully aware that we could see KJ at CB2 all this season just for the sake of seeing him perform a whole 2nd season out there. It's a pattern.

Honoring Earl 34
08-09-2011, 10:29 AM
We put KJ out at CB2 last season, right off the bat.

We just drafted Harris. I think they're going to sacrifice (let go of) evaluating what Harris can do against opposing 1st teamers (in preseason) so that (A) Kareem gets the most looks at CB2 vs. opposing 1st teamers, and (B) Harris gets to play 2nd teamers and build his confidence.

In short: Protect the psyche of Harris (as he slows down and learns) and make KJ prove that he can handle being CB2.

So far, I don't buy the lip service being served up by any of the Texans coaches. They're going to say the right things at all times, even up to the day KJ is demoted. An outside shot exists whereby we see KJ at CB2 in reg season, but I hope it never happens.

For me, I'm just praying they aren't taking J Joseph and Manning for granted...meaning that those two guys can cover for KJ's lack of talent.

At this point, you don't yoke a mule (KJ) to two horses (Maning/Joseph) on the speed buggy Wade is building. To do so, IMO, would be jeopardizing the things McNair set out to do: Hire a good d-coord who has a good system, draft heavy on defense, and acquire GOOD free agents at S and CB.

Kareem Jackson has a focus problem, an instinct problem, and just generally seems LOST out there. If he's going to watch games, he needs to do it from the stands and not out on the field where opposing o-coordinators are going to hammer his ass play after play.

Unless a switch flips in his head, I see no reason the guy should be a 1st teamer. But I have seen the Texans stick with guys for years and years (Amobi, Travis Johnson, etc.) and I am fully aware that we could see KJ at CB2 all this season just for the sake of seeing him perform a whole 2nd season out there. It's a pattern.


I think Saban converted him to CB from a RB . If he's not a top 5 CB on your team , do you cut him ?

b0ng
08-09-2011, 10:37 AM
I think Saban converted him to CB from a RB . If he's not a top 5 CB on your team , do you cut him ?

Unless you plan keeping 6 CBs on the roster but almost all 1sts get a fee seasons before they are cut no matter how bad they are ya know? That's not something only the Texans do.

Btw there are kjax threads for this kind of discussion.

Astew10112
08-09-2011, 10:44 AM
Just got back from the practice..here are some quick hits.

-JJ Watt looked amazing, he constantly beat Eric Winston 1 on 1.

-Brooks Reed looked better than I thought, disrupted a few runs and got pressure on the QB

-2nd team DL is awful, we have no depth

-Kareem Jackson.......:wadepalm:

-Jeff Mahel was the star of the day, 2 great catches..multiple TD's.

-Dorin Dickerson made an AMAZING jump ball TD on Joseph

-RB's looked good, Slaton still can't hold onto the football unfortunately.

-Schaub was accurate on every throw, he and Daniels hooked up quite a bit.

-Mario looked good at times, struggles on run plays at times.

-Demeco had a few pass break ups in 7 on 7, was nice to see.

-Brice McCain couldn't cover my grandma in a phone booth.

-Was impressed with McManis in man coverage, got beat a few times in zone

HOU-TEX
08-09-2011, 11:03 AM
Sounds like Tate had to leave practice again with a hammy. I also heard Ogbannaya's been looking really good and taking advantage of all the extra work with Foster and Tate out.

Rey
08-09-2011, 11:06 AM
I'm tired of hearing about Kareem getting beat every practice.

I know there are other corners being beat out there.

TEXANRED
08-09-2011, 11:07 AM
I'm tired of hearing about Kareem getting beat every practice.

I know there are other corners being beat out there.

Rumor has it CPS has been called and will be conducting an investigation.

SheTexan
08-09-2011, 11:25 AM
I'm tired of hearing about Kareem getting beat every practice.

I know there are other corners being beat out there.

He's unfortunately #2 and gonna start! I want EVERYONE to know, including the media, just how often this dude gets beat! Maybe, just MAYBE, the coaching staff will wake up and realize this kid might not make it as a CB in this league.

beerlover
08-09-2011, 11:59 AM
He's unfortunately #2 and gonna start! I want EVERYONE to know, including the media, just how often this dude gets beat! Maybe, just MAYBE, the coaching staff will wake up and realize this kid might not make it as a CB in this league.

Other than Joseph (who seems everything as billed, if he can stay healthy) its open competition in these practice sessions. I don't understand why people would hope Kareem fails? I just want him to get a fair chance with new coaching & players around him. If someone else beats him for a starting role, that's fine & dandy. To upgrade a position it takes time & continuity in a system. I hope we stick with the 3-4 & never go back to that 4-3 again.

In another news flash, the Texans offense if pretty good, especially with a healthy Andre the passing attack can be downright nasty. :)

thunderkyss
08-09-2011, 12:40 PM
Just got back from the practice..here are some quick hits.


-Kareem Jackson.......:wadepalm:

-Dorin Dickerson made an AMAZING jump ball TD on Joseph

-Brice McCain couldn't cover my grandma in a phone booth.

-Was impressed with McManis in man coverage, got beat a few times in zone


I'll admit, I read this with a little bias.

I wonder if anyone else can admit the same.

Kubiak & Bush started Dunta Robinson & Fred Bennet a few years back. They played the same.. "Bennet has stepped it up blah, blah, blah... " in the off-season.

But when it got down to losing games (that was our 9-7 season) They sat him down & Glover shined.

I have no doubt the same will happen here, if KJac doesn't cut the mustard... good thing is we have some good options behind him. McCain looked good that season as well & played most of the nickel downs. McMannis looks like a keeper. I've got high hopes for Harris & I hear good things about Carmichael.

& at the very least, we've got Jason Allen.

Ω

redwhiteANDblue
08-09-2011, 12:55 PM
As promised I took alot of videos! I also have that Dickerson catch on tape too! It might take me awhile to get them all uploaded so just wait a bit and you'll get them hopefully.


Heres one of them! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZoxzXbz1Hg)


Great catch by Jean. Really want this guy over Maehl and Tolliver


(btw not all the videos are this bad quality, I just took this with my phone after my camera ran out of card space or whatever)

The Pencil Neck
08-09-2011, 01:14 PM
I was really upset to hear that Roc Carmichael separated his shoulder.

It's on McClain's chat this morning.

HOU-TEX
08-09-2011, 01:20 PM
I was really upset to hear that Roc Carmichael separated his shoulder.

It's on McClain's chat this morning.

Hmm, I wonder what grade separation? If it's bad, they might PUP him. Or IR him if they didn't think he was going to be ready to contribute this season

ChampionTexan
08-09-2011, 01:42 PM
Hmm, I wonder what grade separation? If it's bad, they might PUP him. Or IR him if they didn't think he was going to be ready to contribute this season

Unless the new CBA changed the rules, you can't be placed on the PUP list once you've participated in practice. It would have to be IR.

HOU-TEX
08-09-2011, 02:17 PM
Unless the new CBA changed the rules, you can't be placed on the PUP list once you've participated in practice. It would have to be IR.

I'm talking about the regular season PUP. Not the practice PUP. Where he'd miss the first 6 games of the season. I might be wrong, but I don't think it was changed?

ChampionTexan
08-09-2011, 02:28 PM
I'm talking about the regular season PUP. Not the practice PUP. Where he'd miss the first 6 games of the season. I might be wrong, but I don't think it was changed?

Same deal - you can't be placed on the regular season (Reserve) PUP unless you're first placed on the preseason (Active PUP).

AJ has written a great article summarizing the PUP rules. Assuming they haven't changed, it's the best summary on this I've seen - probably a good time to post a link.

Link to PUP summary (assuming the new CBA hasn't changed them) (http://www.examiner.com/houston-texans-in-houston/clarifying-nfl-rules-on-the-physically-unable-to-perform-pup-list-1)

HOU-TEX
08-09-2011, 02:35 PM
Same deal - you can't be placed on the regular season (Reserve) PUP unless you're first placed on the preseason (Active PUP).

AJ has written a great article summarizing the PUP rules. Assuming they haven't changed, it's the best summary on this I've seen - probably a good time to post a link.

Link to PUP summary (assuming the new CBA hasn't changed them) (http://www.examiner.com/houston-texans-in-houston/clarifying-nfl-rules-on-the-physically-unable-to-perform-pup-list-1)

I stand corrected. Thanks, man. Unless I'm having a brain fart, I didn't know that. I always thought they could be PUP'd for the season during camp.

ChampionTexan
08-09-2011, 02:40 PM
I stand corrected. Thanks, man. Unless I'm having a brain fart, I didn't know that. I always thought they could be PUP'd for the season during camp.

Yeah, I don't think the Texans placed anybody on the active PUP (although I could have missed it). If that's the case, then the entire concept of the PUP list is irrelevant for them until 2012 training camp.

Astew10112
08-09-2011, 02:43 PM
I'm tired of hearing about Kareem getting beat every practice.

I know there are other corners being beat out there.

Brice McCain is an abortion as well. I mentioned him in my break down. The next good play that guy makes will be the first good play that guy makes.

HOU-TEX
08-09-2011, 03:09 PM
Here are a couple points from LZ on this morning's practice

•I probably can’t sit in a conversation with anyone for very long where they try and convince me that Kareem Jackson or any other CB not named Johnathan Joseph is one of the top two CBs on the team ahead of Jason Allen. Allen’s ball skills alone should give him a great shot at being a starter in Week 1.
•Glover Quin seems to be handling the transition from CB to safety pretty well. Quin showed a good deal of discipline by staying with his assignment and not being fooled by play-action passes on the backside. Quin was ready for bootleg rollout and did a good job of closing on the WR/FB/TE.

http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2011/08/tuesday-am-practice-notes-for-the-texans-and-antonio-smiths-new-playmates/

Interesting take on Allen.

Nice to hear Quin not biting on PA. Pollard was the worst. He bit on PA more than anyone I've seen. Hopefully we now have safety's that don't just go for the kill shot and can actually cover someone

GP
08-09-2011, 03:21 PM
I think Saban converted him to CB from a RB . If he's not a top 5 CB on your team , do you cut him ?

I would have to analyze the pros and cons.

Do I want him for depth purposes? Probably.

Do I want him starting? Hell no. And if he can't handle that, he can take his talents to Miami Beach or somewhere they will coddle him and treat him the way he wants to be treated. He's a gawker: Gets caught watching the play.

Texans34Life
08-09-2011, 03:24 PM
McLame's tweets:

McClain_on_NFL
Watt is quick, strong and instinctive. Sometimes he just grabs the OT and tosses him to the side. Also, Watt's motor never stops.

McClain_on_NFL
DE J.J. Watt, the first-round pick, looks tremendous. He's 6-5, 290 and has terrific athleticism, which he showed at the combine.

McClain_on_NFL
Texans signed veteran P Brad Maynard, but don't be surprised if Brett Hartmann, an undrafted rookie from Central Michigan, wins the job.

McClain_on_NFL
RB Steve Slaton, 3rd on depth chart behind Arian Foster and Derrick Ward, continues to look good in camp. Very quick and elusive.

McClain_on_NFL
Arian Foster is still riding a bike in practice to protect his hamstring injury. No need to rush him back. They already know what he can do.

McClain_on_NFL
So I'll say it again: I think OLB Connor Barwin, who plays the strong side, will be the Texans' breakout defensive player this season.

McClain_on_NFL
Last year, I predicted Connor Barwin would be their breakout player, but he suffered a season-ending broken foot in the first game.

McClain_on_NFL
Cushing said he wanted to lose 10 pounds so he'd be quicker in Wade Phillips' new defense. He hasn't been in team drills yet.

McClain_on_NFL
I don't see Cushing playing against the Jets Monday night after missing so much time. Cushing has lost 10 pounds to 252.

McClain_on_NFL
ILB Brian Cushing still can't practice after undergoing surgery in January to repair a patella tendon in his knee.

McClain_on_NFL
Dorin Dickerson (6-2, 227) is getting a firm hold on the 4th WR job that used to belong to David Anderson. Dickerson has caught everything.

McClain_on_NFL
Matt Leinart has looked outstanding in camp. He's made perfect throws on deep routes, slant routes and fade routes. The coaches love him.

Tailgate
08-09-2011, 03:30 PM
Here are a couple points from LZ on this morning's practice




http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2011/08/tuesday-am-practice-notes-for-the-texans-and-antonio-smiths-new-playmates/

Interesting take on Allen.

Nice to hear Quin not biting on PA. Pollard was the worst. He bit on PA more than anyone I've seen. Hopefully we now have safety's that don't just go for the kill shot and can actually cover someone

One more...

After watching him for much of the morning, I can safely say that DeMeco Ryan’s recognition and reaction against the run looks like it is back where it needs to be after coming back from an Achilles tear last year. What was less clear to me was whether or not he is going to be able to move in space effectively against the pass.

I will take it!

gary
08-09-2011, 04:04 PM
I saw some nice caches from Jacoby Jones this morning so he might finally be as good as we all thought he was going to be. I saw Vickers really lay the wood on an LB smash mouth style on a running play and he also caught some very nice passes out of the backfield from Shaub. AJ was just as pure as he always has been so no surprise there. Slaton still has butterfingers but the other backs looked very solid. It was nice to see Dickerson making great strides in only his second year in the league. Matt L. is the clear cut number two QB right now over Yates IMO. JJ Watt is a beast and he is going to be a force to be reckoned with based on what I saw for those who have not seen him play yet. Mario needs a little more work on staying involved on certain plays but nothing too bad from him. Just glad I am able to finally bring home some good stuff to report to you guys. And I'm just not felling the beat on Kareem Jackson right now either.

Playoffs
08-09-2011, 04:38 PM
JJ Watt is a beast ...

Watt is a beast ... :wild:

JJ Watt is a #%*$&!?@ beast ...

Heard that so many times!!! :kingkong:

Shaft75
08-09-2011, 05:02 PM
Got some vids I'm about to upload!

The Pencil Neck
08-09-2011, 05:05 PM
Got some vids I'm about to upload!

tease.

Shaft75
08-09-2011, 05:18 PM
Dorin Dickerson's TD Catch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43n2bV_nr68)

Seems like a reliable redzone target, 1-on-1 of course. Play was specifically called to go to him on our "shutdown" corner.

Shaft75
08-09-2011, 05:36 PM
Dre makes a catch, McCain looks lost (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aSzm8jrqJU)

Shaft75
08-09-2011, 05:41 PM
Dre beats Joseph for a TD across the middle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi2SDf9Zw6g)

Shaft75
08-09-2011, 05:46 PM
I'm just now noticing a majority of my videos are from 7 on 7 drills. I wish I would have taken more of the complete O vs. D.

I really didnt think they would turn out that well. Although I had to hold my phone up pretty high so they were a little shaky.

Shaft75
08-09-2011, 05:50 PM
Safety Blitz (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9swZp85ITpk)

I love this one. Can you believe we actually blitzed 2 safeties? I know the result was a td, but I don't know if the qb would have had the time to wait for the route to develop.

dream_team
08-09-2011, 05:52 PM
I'm just now noticing a majority of my videos are from 7 on 7 drills. I wish I would have taken more of the complete O vs. D.

I really didnt think they would turn out that well. Although I had to hold my phone up pretty high so they were a little shaky.

So how do these 7 on 7 drills work? With no pass rush, the receivers should always eventually get open.

The Pencil Neck
08-09-2011, 05:54 PM
So how do these 7 on 7 drills work? With no pass rush, the receivers should always eventually get open.

The 7-on-7 drills are almost always "won" by the offense. The defense is pretty much screwed.

thunderkyss
08-09-2011, 05:57 PM
McLame's tweets:

McClain_on_NFL
Watt is quick, strong and instinctive. Sometimes he just grabs the OT and tosses him to the side. Also, Watt's motor never stops.


Is that another way of saying our Offensive Tackles suck?

Shaft75
08-09-2011, 06:00 PM
Jacoby drops a TD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDAtaAkgK9k)

...which happens with him. The one thing that I liked is seeing the way Manning and Joseph worked Andre out of the picture when Schaub looked his way.

thunderkyss
08-09-2011, 06:01 PM
Dre makes a catch, McCain looks lost (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aSzm8jrqJU)

What do you think he was supposed to do?

Shaft75
08-09-2011, 06:07 PM
Dre shakes KJ, makes a catch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVnrflXcVJs)

redwhiteANDblue
08-09-2011, 06:12 PM
I'm just now noticing a majority of my videos are from 7 on 7 drills. I wish I would have taken more of the complete O vs. D.

I really didnt think they would turn out that well. Although I had to hold my phone up pretty high so they were a little shaky.

Don't worry I have a lot of O v D. I'm still trying to uploading them. a 5 minute video takes like 2 hours to upload! ridiculous!

Shaft75
08-09-2011, 06:20 PM
What do you think he was supposed to do?

Sit and stare at the qb.

Shaft75
08-09-2011, 06:32 PM
Ward finds a hole (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jt-Zzl9QV0)

Nice little cutback by Ward. Wish I could have seen it from the backside.

Ok, that's all... Hope you enjoyed!

Playoffs
08-09-2011, 06:42 PM
NickScurfield Nick Scurfield
Rookie CB Roc Carmichael (4th-rd pick/Va Tech), sprained a shoulder on Sunday. Kubiak said he'll miss "a week or so" of practice
17 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

NickScurfield Nick Scurfield
Kubiak also said 2nd-year CB Sherrick McManis is "having a really good camp." He and Allen are pushing Kareem Jackson for PT
19 minutes ago

NickScurfield Nick Scurfield
Allen, a 6th-year pro who had 6 INTs last season, has been making big plays in team drills throughout camp
21 minutes ago

NickScurfield Nick Scurfield
Texans coach Gary Kubiak said this afternoon "there's absolutely no doubt" that CB Jason Allen could push for a starting spot

Honoring Earl 34
08-09-2011, 07:24 PM
Jacoby drops a TD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDAtaAkgK9k)

...which happens with him. The one thing that I liked is seeing the way Manning and Joseph worked Andre out of the picture when Schaub looked his way.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PuZoLkvmBbc/SYpEBg793II/AAAAAAAACXw/XauVe1uVMvk/s320/Clifford+Franklin.jpg

EllisUnit
08-09-2011, 07:52 PM
Is that another way of saying our Offensive Tackles suck?

could be cause our first string D rarely plays the first string O. well from what i've seen from pics and video, BESIDES the 7 on 7

GP
08-09-2011, 07:58 PM
Jacoby drops a TD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDAtaAkgK9k)

...which happens with him.

Not as much as it's been perpetuated, actually.

Crushing56
08-09-2011, 08:16 PM
Still happens wayyyyy too often for him to be the #2 WR in my opinion.

redwhiteANDblue
08-09-2011, 09:18 PM
Heres some of the videos I got uploaded. There is still a lot more to go and I'll have all of them up by Tomorrow.

Not the best camera work but it is in HD so remember to switch to HD when your watching it looks a lot better.

Players just coming in. Just chilling and warming up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8_73hNC8Wg&feature=channel_video_title)

All the players stretching (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxnNGIlgWzY&feature=relmfu)

Players start doing position drills (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9bh8_BKewk&feature=channel_video_title)

Texans start their O v D (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSUZYPfqpbM&feature=channel_video_title)


O v D (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu_vjEfXt2M&feature=channel_video_title)


Lestar Jean Amazing grab (http://www.youtube.com/user/RWDtexans#p/u/5/-ZoxzXbz1Hg)




Lots more to come. More O v D and 7 on 7 tomorrow!! :fans:

Shaft75
08-09-2011, 10:35 PM
Not as much as it's been perpetuated, actually.

Is there another Jacoby on the team?

The Jacoby I know drops balls. I've read some of your posts, and I'm thinking you may have watched as many games as I have. How in the hell do you not remember the dude dropping passes/punts?

BSofA04
08-09-2011, 10:50 PM
I don't see how Studdard makes this team if he continues to 'ole his defender.

4:10 mark, Tim Jamison makes him look stupid and would've blown up Tate in a real game...:kubepalm:

http://www.youtube.com/user/RWDtexans#p/u/0/c1CU12NXb7I

b0ng
08-09-2011, 10:52 PM
Thanks for the vids and the reports you guys are killing it today. Repped a bunch of people for their contributions.

Rey
08-09-2011, 10:56 PM
Is there another Jacoby on the team?

The Jacoby I know drops balls. I've read some of your posts, and I'm thinking you may have watched as many games as I have. How in the hell do you not remember the dude dropping passes/punts?

Yeah.

Pretty much anytime jacoby and the football come together I hold my breath.

painekiller
08-09-2011, 11:02 PM
Heres some of the videos I got uploaded. There is still a lot more to go and I'll have all of them up by Tomorrow.

Not the best camera work but it is in HD so remember to switch to HD when your watching it looks a lot better.

Players just coming in. Just chilling and warming up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8_73hNC8Wg&feature=channel_video_title)

All the players stretching (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxnNGIlgWzY&feature=relmfu)

Players start doing position drills (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9bh8_BKewk&feature=channel_video_title)

Texans start their O v D (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSUZYPfqpbM&feature=channel_video_title)


O v D (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu_vjEfXt2M&feature=channel_video_title)


Lestar Jean Amazing grab (http://www.youtube.com/user/RWDtexans#p/u/5/-ZoxzXbz1Hg)




Lots more to come. More O v D and 7 on 7 tomorrow!! :fans:

You and I must have been sitting close to each other today, I was in the back row, that was a great catch by Lestar. And thank for the videos

Allstar
08-09-2011, 11:07 PM
off topic, but the worst drop I remember Jacoby had was in Week 17 against the Patriots in 09. Caused an interception in crunch time. If we lost that game I would have flipped shit.

EllisUnit
08-09-2011, 11:12 PM
I don't see how Studdard makes this team if he continues to 'ole his defender.

4:10 mark, Tim Jamison makes him look stupid and would've blown up Tate in a real game...:kubepalm:

http://www.youtube.com/user/RWDtexans#p/u/0/c1CU12NXb7I

at the 2.17 mark walter burns K. Jack

sbalderrama
08-10-2011, 01:06 AM
The Trio of Williams, Barwin, and Watt might become OC's worst nightmare. Lets hope.

keyser
08-10-2011, 01:56 AM
I don't see how Studdard makes this team if he continues to 'ole his defender.


I'm really surprised that he's back again. I had thought when he was not tendered or whatever that the coaches had finally realized that he has brought almost nothing to the table.

I feel bad being so hard on the guy - he seems to work hard and seems like a decent person - but I have yet to see anything, anytime, from him that would make me think he should be on the team. It's really a mystery to me how he has stayed on the team this long.

I'm always a big fan of continuously trying to improve the OL, and I'm a bit disappointed that we could not even drop what I consider the weak link this year...

BigBull17
08-10-2011, 02:29 AM
I'm really surprised that he's back again. I had thought when he was not tendered or whatever that the coaches had finally realized that he has brought almost nothing to the table.

I feel bad being so hard on the guy - he seems to work hard and seems like a decent person - but I have yet to see anything, anytime, from him that would make me think he should be on the team. It's really a mystery to me how he has stayed on the team this long.

I'm always a big fan of continuously trying to improve the OL, and I'm a bit disappointed that we could not even drop what I consider the weak link this year...

They needed depth for camp and he knew the offense enough to diminish the learning curve. If the offseason had been longer, maybe they go another direction.

playa465
08-10-2011, 06:48 AM
at the 2.17 mark walter burns K. Jack

disagree, looks like the secondary got beat not just KJ...thanks for the videos all!!!

Allstar
08-10-2011, 08:58 AM
At camp right now, defense is dominating. As I'm typing this I believe it was Watt that just blocked the first field goal attempt.

Ryan
08-10-2011, 09:02 AM
off topic, but the worst drop I remember Jacoby had was in Week 17 against the Patriots in 09. Caused an interception in crunch time. If we lost that game I would have flipped shit.


But he made up for it with that spectacular catch in the endzone that i believe tied the game. He has his ways of making up for it.

GP
08-10-2011, 09:07 AM
Is there another Jacoby on the team?

The Jacoby I know drops balls. I've read some of your posts, and I'm thinking you may have watched as many games as I have. How in the hell do you not remember the dude dropping passes/punts?

There's a thread from a few days ago where we compare stats between David Anderson and Jacoby Jones. The stats show everything but drops, and JJ wins the stat war by a landslide.

Then, I believe it was DutchRudder on here who posted a screenshot of the stat that shows drops. Jacoby isn't even on that list because his drops are so few compared to other brand name WRs out there.

Wes Welker drops more passes than Jacoby Jones. True, Wes Welker probably gets targeted more than Jacoby, but Wes drops a lot of passes out there. And he's deemed to be as "reliable" as David Anderson.

We get this image in our head of the tiny white guy (The Welkers and Andersons of the NFL) being the guy with sticky hands who catches everything thrown his way, and I think it's because we have this idea that small, slow white dudes just MUST be good at catching the ball since that's the only way they'd make an NFL roster. They can't outrun people, so their "angle" for making teams just has GOT to be their ability to never drop a pass out there. It's not necessarily a racist view, it's just that we should all be honest with ourselves about perceptions as it falls along the lines of athleticism for certain positions.

It's an urban legend about Jacoby Jones being the only guy in the NFL who drops every other pass thrown his way, IMO.

The problem is exacerbated by the "Wow" factor that Jacoby brings, at least that's my theory here. He's capable of being so electric and dynamic when he DOES catch the ball...that when he drops one, it sends us into cussing fits.

Matt Schaub throws several interceptions every year. He threw one in OT vs. Ravens last year that ended the game. RBs fumble the ball. I know Arian had at least one fumble last year. Blockers whiff on blocks and get their QB sacked and maybe even hurt. Defense holds a guy and it gives opposing offenses a second life out there when they should be punting.

Jacoby will drop another pass this year. He might drop two. He might drop three. But so will other WRs, and at a larger rate than JJ.

But it's fun to make him the whipping post around here. His talent is great, we want him to utilize 100% of it, and so we hold him to a standard. It's not a BAD thing, mind you, but I wanted to point out that the issue is being blown out of proportion. In my opinion.

BetaV1
08-10-2011, 09:11 AM
NickScurfield Nick Scurfield
Kubiak also said 2nd-year CB Sherrick McManis is "having a really good camp." He and Allen are pushing Kareem Jackson for PT
19 minutes ago

NickScurfield Nick Scurfield
Texans coach Gary Kubiak said this afternoon "there's absolutely no doubt" that CB Jason Allen could push for a starting spot[/I]

I know it's all coach speak, but at the end of the day, I've yet to hear or see something like "Kareem Jackson shutting it down." or Kubiak saying something along the lines of "The job is Jackson's to lose."

Ugh. :wadepalm:

michaelm
08-10-2011, 09:21 AM
Just saw an update. Cushing is on the field with the first team D. Good news.

Brisco_County
08-10-2011, 09:22 AM
I read this morning that Kubiak wanted to get Cushing on the field today rather than tomorrow.


EDIT:

Just saw an update. Cushing is on the field with the first team D. Good news.

Good timing, thanks.

michaelm
08-10-2011, 09:26 AM
Tweets by PHABMK6

Slaton TD, running good in between the tackles. #Texans

Reed showing some pass rush ability. #Texans

Quin is covering everything today, especially in the flats. #Texans

Nice run by ward during team drills. #Texans


Tweet from BigRon

@Steve20Slaton is lookin' like it's 2008 again. Just has to protect the pill like he's done today all the time #Texans

michaelm
08-10-2011, 09:27 AM
Holliday running with ones. Stretching the field. Dre abused Manning. #Texans

michaelm
08-10-2011, 09:28 AM
Barwin closing the backside cutback. Nice play. #Texans

michaelm
08-10-2011, 09:29 AM
If you don't have Twitter, get it.
Non-stop updates from people at practice.

OTOH, if you need to be productive at work, I STRONGLY recommend against it.

michaelm
08-10-2011, 09:30 AM
This RT @caplannfl: Andre Johnson is a rarity...a superstar who gives top effort every single play. His performance today is incredible.

The Pencil Neck
08-10-2011, 09:32 AM
disagree, looks like the secondary got beat not just KJ...thanks for the videos all!!!

Yeah, that may have been GQ biting on the play action and/or Manning not being able to get over in time to close down the inside seam.

b0ng
08-10-2011, 09:34 AM
The Kool-Aid is flowing strong and mighty from Texans training camp twitter updates. Everybody looks good, nobody is doing anything wrong, and Brooks Reed is letting his hair down (and apparently playing better).

From everything I have read, Earl Mitchell SHOULD be the starting NT very very soon. That makes me feel relieved for right now, until the preseason games start.

FOOTBALL GAMES TOMMORROW OMG OMG OMG

dream_team
08-10-2011, 09:37 AM
There's a thread from a few days ago where we compare stats between David Anderson and Jacoby Jones. The stats show everything but drops, and JJ wins the stat war by a landslide.

Then, I believe it was DutchRudder on here who posted a screenshot of the stat that shows drops. Jacoby isn't even on that list because his drops are so few compared to other brand name WRs out there.

Wes Welker drops more passes than Jacoby Jones. True, Wes Welker probably gets targeted more than Jacoby, but Wes drops a lot of passes out there. And he's deemed to be as "reliable" as David Anderson.

We get this image in our head of the tiny white guy (The Welkers and Andersons of the NFL) being the guy with sticky hands who catches everything thrown his way, and I think it's because we have this idea that small, slow white dudes just MUST be good at catching the ball since that's the only way they'd make an NFL roster. They can't outrun people, so their "angle" for making teams just has GOT to be their ability to never drop a pass out there. It's not necessarily a racist view, it's just that we should all be honest with ourselves about perceptions as it falls along the lines of athleticism for certain positions.

It's an urban legend about Jacoby Jones being the only guy in the NFL who drops every other pass thrown his way, IMO.

The problem is exacerbated by the "Wow" factor that Jacoby brings, at least that's my theory here. He's capable of being so electric and dynamic when he DOES catch the ball...that when he drops one, it sends us into cussing fits.

Matt Schaub throws several interceptions every year. He threw one in OT vs. Ravens last year that ended the game. RBs fumble the ball. I know Arian had at least one fumble last year. Blockers whiff on blocks and get their QB sacked and maybe even hurt. Defense holds a guy and it gives opposing offenses a second life out there when they should be punting.

Jacoby will drop another pass this year. He might drop two. He might drop three. But so will other WRs, and at a larger rate than JJ.

But it's fun to make him the whipping post around here. His talent is great, we want him to utilize 100% of it, and so we hold him to a standard. It's not a BAD thing, mind you, but I wanted to point out that the issue is being blown out of proportion. In my opinion.

If he's not one of the league leaders in drops (considering targets), I'd be shocked. Where can I see these stats?

michaelm
08-10-2011, 09:38 AM
The Kool-Aid is flowing strong and mighty from Texans training camp twitter updates. Everybody looks good, nobody is doing anything wrong, and Brooks Reed is letting his hair down (and apparently playing better).

From everything I have read, Earl Mitchell SHOULD be the starting NT very very soon. That makes me feel relieved for right now, until the preseason games start.

FOOTBALL GAMES TOMMORROW OMG OMG OMG

Earl Mitchell = Breakout Player 2011 (IMO)

b0ng
08-10-2011, 09:44 AM
Earl Mitchell = Breakout Player 2011 (IMO)

That would pretty much save the 2010 draft if he were lol.

EDIT:

There are many many many tweets of Matt Leinart being an improved QB as well. I am hoping that was money well spent.

The Pencil Neck
08-10-2011, 09:55 AM
According to Twitter, Brooks Reed just picked off Leinart who was pressured on a blitz by Brandon Harris but Maehl chased Reed down and knocked the ball out.

b0ng
08-10-2011, 10:01 AM
Lots of the twitter guys think Maehle makes the team. Practice squad at least if not on the 53.

michaelm
08-10-2011, 10:05 AM
That would pretty much save the 2010 draft if he were lol.

EDIT:

There are many many many tweets of Matt Leinart being an improved QB as well. I am hoping that was money well spent.

I've been surprised at the Leinart love on twitter, and also surprised it hasn't been mentioned more here. I guess I'm guilty of not posting any Leinart related updates, because there has clearly been a good amount of positive mention about him so far.

michaelm
08-10-2011, 10:09 AM
Love it!


PHABMK6

I like it. RT @Zepp1978: I've seen & heard the word "Motor" about 1,200 times this morning. It must be time for some #Texans football. #Highmotor #Battlefighter

michaelm
08-10-2011, 10:10 AM
PHABMK6

@BigRon281 @b0nger @StephStradley I agree with BIgRon Townsel adds another dimension to the O.

GP
08-10-2011, 10:11 AM
If he's not one of the league leaders in drops (considering targets), I'd be shocked. Where can I see these stats?

Here is the link to the thread: Link to Stat Breakdown (JJ vs. DA). (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83818)

I think that was a good thread that had lots of objective discussion. Usually, threads crumble and spiral down into silliness or name-calling. That thread, IMO, was a productive thread about a topic that's being going on for the past four years.

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj218/Hollyfeather/jjstats.jpg

Rey
08-10-2011, 10:12 AM
Wes Welker drops more passes than Jacoby Jones. True, Wes Welker probably gets targeted more than Jacoby, but Wes drops a lot of passes out there. And he's deemed to be as "reliable" as David Anderson.

.

I'm willing go bet that Wes drops balls that he has to extend himself to catch.

I think jacoby's drops are magnified due to the fact that he has had problems holding onto the ball period. Also the drops that I remember from jacoby were very catchable balls. I've seen him virtually sitting still and balls hit him in the bread basket and he's dropped it.

If jacoby didn't have a problem holding onto the ball, why do you think he did the old carry the ball around everywhere and had people randomly try to knock it out?

And I know you specified drops, but that goes back to my earlier point. His drops are magnified because he's had problems losing the ball period.

ChampionTexan
08-10-2011, 10:12 AM
If he's not one of the league leaders in drops (considering targets), I'd be shocked. Where can I see these stats?

For 2010 by itself, his drop rate was 5.1% according to this link (4 drops/78 targets):

LINK (http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=8327&team=34)

The best article I can find putting that in perspective is a FB Outsiders article written before the 2010 season saying the average drop rates for 2008 and 2009 were 5.9% and 5.7% respectively.

LINK (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2010/offensive-drop-rate)

Unless the average drop rate declined considerably during the 2010 season, this means Jacoby had a slightly better drop rate than the league average when looking at 2010 by itself. Granted, that could very well ignore a much higher than average drop rate in his first three years (Very difficult to find stats for), but it should also be viewed with the knowledge that in that 2010 season, Jacoby had more receptions than in those first three seasons combined.

Finally (and pretty obviously), this doesn't deal with drops/muffs/fumbles on punts, but that's actually a completely different subject.

GP
08-10-2011, 10:20 AM
I'm willing go bet that Wes drops balls that he has to extend himself to catch.

I think jacoby's drops are magnified due to the fact that he has had problems holding onto the ball period. Also the drops that I remember from jacoby were very catchable balls. I've seen him virtually sitting still and balls hit him in the bread basket and he's dropped it.

If jacoby didn't have a problem holding onto the ball, why do you think he did the old carry the ball around everywhere and had people randomly try to knock it out?

And I know you specified drops, but that goes back to my earlier point. His drops are magnified because he's had problems losing the ball period.

Not slamming you here, just trying to "think out loud" like you did.

1. I don't think we can judge drops based on catchable vs. uncatchable. Maybe we can, it would be interesting if the stat was kept like ERROR stats are kept in MLB.

2. You're going on memory. All of us can mis-remember things. I'm going off of stats on Passes Dropped league-wide.

3. I think JJ does have a problem catching passes AND punts whereby he is just standing still. I mentioned this back in the Stat Breakdown: JJ vs. Da thread (IIRC) and I seriously think he makes most his drops when he's not running in-stride. I don't know if it's a coordination thing with him or what.

4. Jacoby Jones is not the only guy in the NFL, or at any level, who has had a coach make him walk around with a football all the time. This is not, IMO, an indictment on Jacoby as it relates to his alleged standing in the league as being the worst pass dropping WR in the NFL. Any other player on any other team could be subject to that coaching technique at any time. And for good reason!

Ole Miss Texan
08-10-2011, 10:27 AM
There's a thread from a few days ago where we compare stats between David Anderson and Jacoby Jones. The stats show everything but drops, and JJ wins the stat war by a landslide.
Again, they're completely different types of WRs. JJ's stats will always be "better", even in a bad year.
Then, I believe it was DutchRudder on here who posted a screenshot of the stat that shows drops. Jacoby isn't even on that list because his drops are so few compared to other brand name WRs out there.

Wes Welker drops more passes than Jacoby Jones. True, Wes Welker probably gets targeted more than Jacoby, but Wes drops a lot of passes out there.
JJ had 4 drops last season on 78 targeted passes. Welker was targeted 138 times. By virtue Welker would likely have more dropped passes (as does Andre) but to JJ's credit his ratio is better.

And he's deemed to be as "reliable" as David Anderson. We get this image in our head of the tiny white guy (The Welkers and Andersons of the NFL) being the guy with sticky hands who catches everything thrown his way, and I think it's because we have this idea that small, slow white dudes just MUST be good at catching the ball since that's the only way they'd make an NFL roster. They can't outrun people, so their "angle" for making teams just has GOT to be their ability to never drop a pass out there. It's not necessarily a racist view, it's just that we should all be honest with ourselves about perceptions as it falls along the lines of athleticism for certain positions.
Anderson was targeted 18 times last season and had 0 drops. ZERO. That's fairly reliable.

The problem is exacerbated by the "Wow" factor that Jacoby brings, at least that's my theory here. He's capable of being so electric and dynamic when he DOES catch the ball...that when he drops one, it sends us into cussing fits.
I think a huge reason why Jacoby gets so many complaints about drops is because of his follies as a punt returner. He's fumbled 7 punt returns. That's what gets this fanbase. One minute he'll take a punt and return it for a TD. Then the next he'll fumble it. The inconsistency (huge high and huge low) is what kills us (me).

The Pencil Neck
08-10-2011, 10:36 AM
Texans owner Bob McNair: "J.J. (Watt) is more than what we expected."
-- HoustonTexans

steelbtexan
08-10-2011, 10:44 AM
Just a thought

With Slaton and Ward running so well and Leshoure getting hurt/out for the season, does anybody think the Lions would do a Sammie Lee Hill for Tate trade at the end of camp?

bo orlando
08-10-2011, 10:46 AM
Again, they're completely different types of WRs. JJ's stats will always be "better", even in a bad year.

JJ had 4 drops last season on 78 targeted passes. Welker was targeted 138 times. By virtue Welker would likely have more dropped passes (as does Andre) but to JJ's credit his ratio is better.


Anderson was targeted 18 times last season and had 0 drops. ZERO. That's fairly reliable.





You also have to consider that there is a greater 'degree of difficulty' on JJ's passes as compared to DA. JJ essentially runs #1 receiver routes, wheras DA runs possession receiver routes. And in line with that, it's reflective of their differing strengths and skillsets. JJ may not have the best hands, but he has the speed, quickness, and even size to get open deeper down the field. He's also a YAC threat. Anderson has great hands, and knows how to exploit holes in the zone. It's not really fair to compare the two.

infantrycak
08-10-2011, 10:54 AM
1. I don't think we can judge drops based on catchable vs. uncatchable.

Not going to jump into the merits of y'alls' discussion but being catchable is in the definition of a drop. That's the whole point. You could have and should have caught it but did not. Throw a ball a WR has to make a diving one handed reception on and even if he missed it, it wouldn't be considered a drop. It's a WR fault statistic which by nature has to attempt to eliminate QB fault.

GP
08-10-2011, 10:57 AM
All I care is that we're finally discussing the merits of the "Jacoby is a dunce" routine that has gone on for four years.

Is he clumsy? He can be. But it's not the defining trait of his. Ron Dayne will forever be known as the guy who ended Charles' Spencer's probable chances at being a GREAT o-linemen in the NFL, yet it was not his real defining trait. Jokes to begin in 3...2...1, LOL.

Apparently, the Texans are ready to gamble that we have enough possession-type receivers and we need homerun hitters (Jacoby).

Strangely enough, I think in the long run we have better Andre Johnson-type projects (Dorin Dickerson, Jean, Toliver) that could grade out better than Jacoby if those guys get the chance to stick around.

GP
08-10-2011, 11:00 AM
Not going to jump into the merits of y'alls' discussion but being catchable is in the definition of a drop. That's the whole point. You could have and should have caught it but did not. Throw a ball a WR has to make a diving one handed reception on and even if he missed it, it wouldn't be considered a drop. It's a WR fault statistic which by nature has to attempt to eliminate QB fault.

Why do you exclude the part where I said I think it would be neat to see ERROR type stats like they use in MLB?

Parsing much? All you had to do is hit the quote button and roll with it, instead you go in and cut out parts of what I said.

Acknowledge the complete thought, not an edited version of it please.

Back to the topic: People grouse about the ERROR stat in MLB, especially when you feel it wasn't an E and yet someone gets to decide it is...and it sticks. In the NFL, I think the game's officials should have instituted, long ago, the idea of a similar system to show errors on QBs, WRs/TEs, and RBs--The ones who must advance the ball.

dream_team
08-10-2011, 11:02 AM
Here is the link to the thread: Link to Stat Breakdown (JJ vs. DA). (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83818)

I think that was a good thread that had lots of objective discussion. Usually, threads crumble and spiral down into silliness or name-calling. That thread, IMO, was a productive thread about a topic that's being going on for the past four years.

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj218/Hollyfeather/jjstats.jpg

Thanks for the "eye-opener". I do give him credit for fixing his problem with muffing punts. I do notice a big improvement.

Someone mentioned he catches better when he's in stride, opposed to standing still. The problem I see is when standing still, he tries to catch the ball by trapping it in his chest. When in stride, he catches with his hands.

I also notice when he thinks he's about to get popped, he'll lose focus and drop the ball. This is where DA excelled.

GP
08-10-2011, 11:05 AM
Thanks for the "eye-opener". I do give him credit for fixing his problem with muffing punts. I do notice a big improvement.

Someone mentioned he catches better when he's in stride, opposed to standing still. The problem I see is when standing still, he tries to catch the ball by trapping it in his chest. When in stride, he catches with his hands.

I also notice when he thinks he's about to get popped, he'll lose focus and drop the ball. This is where DA excelled.

It was me who thinks there's a correlation between legs churning (in motion) and making better catches vs. standing still and bobbling the reception. I have no proof, but it SEEMS that's the case most of the times.

Again, just what I think I am seeing and not a scientific fact etc.

Another one of our posters here, Thunderkyss, was watching games awhile back and said he felt like Steve Slaton almost always tried to make a cutback to the LEFT and that's where his best cuts were made for his best gains. Again, he can talk better about it (better than I am) because it was something he apparently saw and started noticing. That's how it was with Jacoby. I started watching him to see if there was a reason or some sort of "tell" that explained when he was goofing up and when he was excelling at catching the ball.

Ckw
08-10-2011, 11:06 AM
People complaining about Jacoby should go look at some threads from 06 and prior about Andre Johnson. People were absolutely murdering the guy for some of his ridiculous drops. Then he became Andre Johnson and all that talk ended.

Now I am NOT saying Jacoby will become Andre, but I am saying almost every young receiver struggles with it. If Jacoby can't get it under control and become a reliable #2 in the next year or two, then he needs to go. But for now, the guy deserves a chance.

powda
08-10-2011, 11:09 AM
I think a huge reason why Jacoby gets so many complaints about drops is because of his follies as a punt returner.

I've rewatched a fair chunk of last seasons games...early in the season a lot of his drops were 3rd down drive killers. Breadbasket drops that deflated the entire offense...

JJ's best value is as a threat...his actual production rarely lives up to the billing.

Shaft75
08-10-2011, 11:31 AM
There's a thread from a few days ago where we compare stats between David Anderson and Jacoby Jones. The stats show everything but drops, and JJ wins the stat war by a landslide.

Then, I believe it was DutchRudder on here who posted a screenshot of the stat that shows drops. Jacoby isn't even on that list because his drops are so few compared to other brand name WRs out there.

Wes Welker drops more passes than Jacoby Jones. True, Wes Welker probably gets targeted more than Jacoby, but Wes drops a lot of passes out there. And he's deemed to be as "reliable" as David Anderson.

We get this image in our head of the tiny white guy (The Welkers and Andersons of the NFL) being the guy with sticky hands who catches everything thrown his way, and I think it's because we have this idea that small, slow white dudes just MUST be good at catching the ball since that's the only way they'd make an NFL roster. They can't outrun people, so their "angle" for making teams just has GOT to be their ability to never drop a pass out there. It's not necessarily a racist view, it's just that we should all be honest with ourselves about perceptions as it falls along the lines of athleticism for certain positions.

It's an urban legend about Jacoby Jones being the only guy in the NFL who drops every other pass thrown his way, IMO.

The problem is exacerbated by the "Wow" factor that Jacoby brings, at least that's my theory here. He's capable of being so electric and dynamic when he DOES catch the ball...that when he drops one, it sends us into cussing fits.

Matt Schaub throws several interceptions every year. He threw one in OT vs. Ravens last year that ended the game. RBs fumble the ball. I know Arian had at least one fumble last year. Blockers whiff on blocks and get their QB sacked and maybe even hurt. Defense holds a guy and it gives opposing offenses a second life out there when they should be punting.

Jacoby will drop another pass this year. He might drop two. He might drop three. But so will other WRs, and at a larger rate than JJ.

But it's fun to make him the whipping post around here. His talent is great, we want him to utilize 100% of it, and so we hold him to a standard. It's not a BAD thing, mind you, but I wanted to point out that the issue is being blown out of proportion. In my opinion.

You dug way to deep on this one Josh Ennis, and you are completely wrong. Just do the simple math. Who was targeted more? Watch some games, I bet you find a huge mistake by JJ.

Allstar
08-10-2011, 11:37 AM
I love how off topic we get in this thread. Football is back :)

Shaft75
08-10-2011, 11:40 AM
3. I think JJ does have a problem catching passes AND punts whereby he is just standing still. I mentioned this back in the Stat Breakdown: JJ vs. Da thread (IIRC) and I seriously think he makes most his drops when he's not running in-stride. I don't know if it's a coordination thing with him or what.


Then why did you ever disagree with my comment of dropping passes?

Dude, you're funny...

Cjeremy635
08-10-2011, 11:44 AM
Texans owner Bob McNair: "J.J. (Watt) is more than what we expected."
-- HoustonTexans

That's great to hear. I don't know anything about this kid (I don't follow college ball), but I'm glad we have him. I keep hearing that he has a motor that won't quit and that's something that you can't teach. Hopefully he'll be a solid player with us for years to come.

:fans:

Shaft75
08-10-2011, 11:45 AM
According to Twitter, Brooks Reed just picked off Leinart who was pressured on a blitz by Brandon Harris but Maehl chased Reed down and knocked the ball out.

The Maehl kid impressed me yesterday. I just don't even want to imagine that guy going over the middle in the NFL.

GP
08-10-2011, 11:51 AM
Then why did you ever disagree with my comment of dropping passes?

Dude, you're funny...

Was only saying that you guys act like he's isolated in a chamber and no other WR or PR on God's green earth does what JJ does.

I think you watch only OUR games or something???

The level of effort some people are going to, to show that Jacoby is a dunce is amazing. He's going to drop passes. Shocker. Other players are going to drop passes. Shocker. Why remain in this place of acting like Jacoby should be on the bubble every camp because HE drops passes? I find it interesting, that's all.

Let's ignore ALL of the TDs (9) he scored. Let's ignore all of the 20+ and 40+ gains he produced. Let's ignore total yards. Let's ignore average yards per catch. Let's ignore first downs he made. Let's say that David Anderson is RELIABLE and that, by golly, means Jacoby is broken.

Not even Andre Johnson is perfect. There's just so much bitching and snarkiness about something that other WRs have happen to them, too, that it's funny to watch the antics. It was funny then, and it's hilarious NOW to watch people ignore other stats and just focus on certain scenarios in certain games. As if Jacoby is the only one who ****s up plays at certain times in certain games.