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View Full Version : Do you really think Foster's Success is Linked to Leach?


Schaub2Dre
07-30-2011, 12:44 PM
Vonta has been here since the beginning of the Kubiak era and has started all 16 games for the past four seasons.

Here is the breakdown for total team rushing yards for since the Texans began play in 2002:

2002: 1,347
2003: 1,651
2004: 1,882
2005: 1,816
2006: 1,687
2007: 1,586
2008: 1,846
2009: 1,475
2010: 2,042

If you average the 4 Capers years, the average team rushing yards was 1,674.

Now if you just average the first 4 years Leach has been here(2006-2009) the average was 1649. 25 yards lower than the Capers era.

You guys obviously know that in 2010, it was the largest rushing total for the team ever when Arian Foster started.

So it brings me to my point, is Leach honestly the key to Foster's success? or are there other reasons why he had the season he did (ie; Fosters actual talent and drive to succeed, the addition of Wade Smith, O-line Chemistry, Chris Meyers' improvement, etc.)

If Leach is gone because of the money, I honestly would be okay with that. The team found Leach from the scrapheap, i'm sure they can find a competent replacement to him.

In conclusion, if Leach comes back, great. If not, i'm not going to be crying over him and proclaiming our rushing game is over.

DX-TEX
07-30-2011, 12:46 PM
It has been repeated a lot:this offense Kubiak runs can make a godo RB. Terrell Davis in Denver was another great example. The RB still has to run it though but it does make it easier.

Doppelganger
07-30-2011, 12:51 PM
It has been repeated a lot:this offense Kubiak runs can make a godo RB. Terrell Davis in Denver was another great example. The RB still has to run it though but it does make it easier.

The Denver offense makes mediocre RBS look good, good look great, and great look like top players. During the Shanny run in Denver they only had 2 elite rbs: Portis and Davis. When they were there they were top RBs in the league.

But, the key to the offense is creating a hole. Having a stud FB to bash a hole makes it easier for everyone involved. Leach has always been great at busting up a hole. The problem is he has never had anyone quick enough to take advantage of it. While Ron Dayne would get to the hole and get 3 yards, Foster gets 9. While Dayne broke off a 15 yard run, Foster broke off 55.

We need to resign Leach.

TheBigpaki
07-30-2011, 12:53 PM
I heard a stat on sports radio 610 saying Leach was only on the field for 38% of offense plays, and not all the plays were running play. So I don't know how much he really made an impact. I think Foster's success can be attributed to having the perfect guy for a system. Foster is an ideal one-cut and go Running Back.

badboy
07-30-2011, 12:55 PM
For me it is both Leach's devastating blocks and Foster's power. We have had runners behind Leach who did nothing compared to Foster. I think Foster behind another good if not great Fb woud do almost as well. I would still sign Leach if possible. I would trade a 2&4 for Asante Samuel & try to work something For Shane Lechler.

DocBar
07-30-2011, 12:57 PM
The Denver offense makes mediocre RBS look good, good look great, and great look like top players. During the Shanny run in Denver they only had 2 elite rbs: Portis and Davis. When they were there they were top RBs in the league.

But, the key to the offense is creating a hole. Having a stud FB to bash a hole makes it easier for everyone involved. Leach has always been great at busting up a hole. The problem is he has never had anyone quick enough to take advantage of it. While Ron Dayne would get to the hole and get 3 yards, Foster gets 9. While Dayne broke off a 15 yard run, Foster broke off 55.

We need to resign Leach.Until I see proof that Dayne had a 15 yd run, I'm hollering BS on this. LOL

b0ng
07-30-2011, 12:58 PM
It's not a 100% or 0% proposition. Yes Fosters success is linked to Leach but not so much so that we need to do whatever he demands.

DocBar
07-30-2011, 12:59 PM
Foster got quite a few of his yds out of a single back set. I think Leach is an important piece of the puzzle, but not the key piece. I hope we can re-sign him.

DX-TEX
07-30-2011, 01:04 PM
Better hope not:

nfldraftupdate #Broncos reportedly up the ante on their offer for #Texans free agent FB Vonta Leach. The 2010 All-Pro FB is highly sought after right now.

DocBar
07-30-2011, 01:12 PM
Better hope not:Within reason, of course.

CloakNNNdagger
07-30-2011, 01:15 PM
I believe his value in short yardage and goal line situations is too easily underestimated. Especially in the latter where the field is so compressed, the light weight nimble O-line looses it effectiveness and a lead plow with mass and power becomes invaluable.

Doppelganger
07-30-2011, 01:18 PM
Until I see proof that Dayne had a 15 yd run, I'm hollering BS on this. LOL

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaynRo00.htm

Take a look at LNG rushing in 2006 and 2007(when he was in Htown). 19 yards was his longest carry in 2006 and 39 in 2007!

DocBar
07-30-2011, 01:19 PM
I believe his value in short yardage and goal line situations is too easily underestimated. Especially in the latter where the field is so compressed, the light weight nimble O-line looses it effectiveness and a lead plow with mass and power becomes invaluable.We should gameplan to stay out of these situations on offense and defense. :fieldgoal

Scooter
07-30-2011, 01:23 PM
something that cant be overstated is vonta's health over his career, including playing in every game the last 4+ seasons. for a human battering ram, that's quite a feat and one of the things making his request to be highly paid a somewhat reasonable one.

Playoffs
07-30-2011, 01:28 PM
I think we'll lose an element of smashmouth, ball(clock) control without Leach .... and I do think we lose him on dollars.

There's a team chemistry loss too as he's tight with AJ/Foster/etc.

DX-TEX
07-30-2011, 01:31 PM
something that cant be overstated is vonta's health over his career, including playing in every game the last 4+ seasons. for a human battering ram, that's quite a feat and one of the things making his request to be highly paid a somewhat reasonable one.

Law of averages says he is overdue for a breakdown then.

Sorry to be a debbie downer but it is true.

mussop
07-30-2011, 01:34 PM
There are plenty of good FB's available for cheap. Save the money and use it on defense. That is if he sticks to his current demands to be the highest payed FB.

SheTexan
07-30-2011, 02:05 PM
YES! Simply because Arian Foster said so!! Don't ask the fans, ask the man Vonte blocked for!!

Trail.Blazr
07-30-2011, 02:21 PM
The biggest reason is the O-Line. I'm going to try and remember the last time a Texans line was as good as it was last year?

TheMatrix31
07-30-2011, 02:27 PM
Losing him would be devastating. Not because Foster isn't capable of doing it by himself, but....it would be a really bad thing.

welsh texan
07-30-2011, 02:40 PM
Vonta Leach is an O-lineman wearing the wrong number. Sure he's got reasonable hands to catch a ball occasionally but I think its wrong to seperate his performance from the O-lines.

When you start saying, 'he played well' and 'the O-line played really well' it makes you think they were completely seperate things.

I'd be hesitant to let Leach go, but then again everyone has their value ceiling.

Texans_Chick
07-30-2011, 04:39 PM
Here's the numbers that I have:


http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/2011/04/vonta-leach-texans-tight-ends-affect-on-arian-foster-short-yardage-runs/ (http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/2011/04/vonta-leach-texans-tight-ends-affect-on-arian-foster-short-yardage-runs/)

The biggest effect isn't so much the numbers but rather that we have a short off-season and you don't want to have to learn up someone new or worry that that the replacement isn't as good. We know that Leach/Foster can be effective. Demonstrated last year. So, barring injury, it would be nice not to have to think about that and focus on other issues.

Hardcore Texan
07-30-2011, 04:44 PM
Yes! Plus I took this pic:

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa216/pnettles74/SDC10017.jpg

JamesBill
07-30-2011, 04:46 PM
I think without Leach you lose locker room leadership, and on field attitude.

I also feel long term that Arian will have a longer career running behind Leach.

ObsiWan
07-30-2011, 05:03 PM
Until I see proof that Dayne had a 15 yd run, I'm hollering BS on this. LOL

I remember that play. There was a cheeseburger and fries 15 yds downfield.
:D

ObsiWan
07-30-2011, 05:22 PM
There are plenty of good FB's available for cheap. Save the money and use it on defense. That is if he sticks to his current demands to be the highest payed FB.

First, are any of those Wal-Mart priced FBs Pro Bowl quality??
Second, think about what you're saying. We're not talking highest paid QB money or highest paid CB money or highest paid DE/sack artist money. We're talking highest paid FB money. How much could that possibly be... 4 mil, 5 mil? Maybe not even that... When I Googled "Highest paid NFL FB" this came up...


The Eagles have agreed to terms with FB Leonard Weaver on a three-year deal worth $11 million (and could be valued at $12 million with incentives) and includes $6.5 million guaranteed, according to league sources.
Weaver is coming off a Pro Bowl season and becomes the highest-paid fullback in NFL history. He became a key cog in the Eaglesí offense, catching and running with the ball, as well as blocking. He had 70 carries for 323 yards and two touchdowns on the ground to go along with two receiving scores in 2009.So we lock him up for 3-4 years at 3.5M per; maybe half guaranteed. That hardly breaks the bank. And he's the highest paid at his position.

And frankly, IMHO, he's earned it.

Worse case, if our offense changes significantly in a couple of years and we don't need him, we got two good years out of him because we all know he always comes to play and, as someone else pointed out, he hardly misses a game due to injury. Seems like a good investment to me.

my :twocents:

MEGA SWATT
07-30-2011, 05:25 PM
It's not a 100% or 0% proposition. Yes Fosters success is linked to Leach but not so much so that we need to do whatever he demands.

agreed.

Brisco_County
07-30-2011, 05:43 PM
From Brian Cushing's Facebook:

"Locker room isn't the same without vonta leach... need him back on the squad!!"

Playoffs
07-30-2011, 06:20 PM
Yes! Plus I took this pic:


I haven't seen that "HT" t-shirt before ... where can I buy???

Pantherstang84
07-31-2011, 07:31 AM
First, are any of those Wal-Mart priced FBs Pro Bowl quality??
Second, think about what you're saying. We're not talking highest paid QB money or highest paid CB money or highest paid DE/sack artist money. We're talking highest paid FB money. How much could that possibly be... 4 mil, 5 mil? Maybe not even that... When I Googled "Highest paid NFL FB" this came up...

So we lock him up for 3-4 years at 3.5M per; maybe half guaranteed. That hardly breaks the bank. And he's the highest paid at his position.

And frankly, IMHO, he's earned it.

Worse case, if our offense changes significantly in a couple of years and we don't need him, we got two good years out of him because we all know he always comes to play and, as someone else pointed out, he hardly misses a game due to injury. Seems like a good investment to me.

my :twocents:

I fully agree with this post. Pay the man. Also, I'm thinking he and his agent are finding out the market is not where they thought it would be.

Bring back the Coke machine.

b0ng
07-31-2011, 08:50 AM
agreed.

One thing I should've added:

If he's only demanding to be the highest paid and nothing else then I don't see the problem with that. That will take up roughly 3% of the cap and I think he brings enough to the table to warrant that.

GlassHalfFull
07-31-2011, 09:13 AM
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Vonta-Leach/113950288666852?ref=ts&sk=wall

His facebook page. Let's show him some love. Let him know Houston fans want him back.

Trail.Blazr
07-31-2011, 09:16 AM
The biggest reason is the O-Line. I'm going to try and remember the last time a Texans line was as good as it was last year?

I tried... got nothing.


Vonta Leach is an O-lineman wearing the wrong number. Sure he's got reasonable hands to catch a ball occasionally but I think its wrong to seperate his performance from the O-lines.

When you start saying, 'he played well' and 'the O-line played really well' it makes you think they were completely seperate things.

I'd be hesitant to let Leach go, but then again everyone has their value ceiling.

THIS... he is/should be considered part of the O-Line... so for the poll question, Vonta in himself, no.. Foster's success is not linked to Vonta(in itself), but more to the Line as a whole, to which Vonta is arguably the best performer in respect to the role he has, and despite my "No" opinion, I DO believe it would be risky, cheap and downright insane to think you could improve or even maintain the running game by letting Vonta walk away.

Don't mess with the one thing this team has that works... especially to save $$$. b0ng makes an excellent point in that respect.

Rey
07-31-2011, 09:42 AM
Only difference is that the o-line blocks for foster 100 percent of the time.

I guess the wr's and te's are part of the ol too?

Look I think we should bring vonta back at this point, but I do know that plenty of running games have been successful without vonta and before foster our running game sucked.

Yes vonta helps. Key piece? IMO no. I don't think we would suffer tremendously but he is a weapon and if it's reasonable bring him back.

ObsiWan
07-31-2011, 09:42 AM
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Vonta-Leach/113950288666852?ref=ts&sk=wall

His facebook page. Let's show him some love. Let him know Houston fans want him back.

Done.
And I noticed there are a considerable amount of posts from NYC folks begging him to come east.

Hardcore Texan
07-31-2011, 10:11 AM
http://www.iteachyou.com/rosebud/bear%20in%20woods.jpg

srrono
07-31-2011, 10:23 AM
I think saying Leach is the cause of Fosters success is a wrong statement but at the same time you can not say Leach isnt the cause of Fosters success. we wil see Foster running well again this year no matter who his FB is Foster is too hungry and talented to fail in my opinion.