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View Full Version : [PFF] Okoye - #1 Tackle Attempts per Miss


Texans34Life
07-22-2011, 02:08 PM
Sweet, something he excels at....

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/07/21/missed-tackles-three-year-bests-and-worsts/

http://i55.tinypic.com/2zdn2qc.jpg

disaacks3
07-22-2011, 02:32 PM
I don't know....any analysis that shows Jacques Reeves is "good" and Nnamdi asomugha is "bad" I can't take too seriously.

b0ng
07-22-2011, 03:22 PM
Shaun Cody ranks at the top. What does it mean?

Ole Miss Texan
07-22-2011, 03:29 PM
The lower the ratio, the worse. :foottap:

XI CMURDER IX
07-22-2011, 04:06 PM
The lower the ratio, the worse. :foottap:

He excels at being the worse, duh! :specnatz:

b0ng
07-22-2011, 07:58 PM
The lower the ratio, the worse. :foottap:

So Cody is great and Okoye is poo?

Lucky
07-22-2011, 10:56 PM
So Cody is great and Okoye is poo?
No and yes. Cody's not great, but serviceable. Okoye is probably a few days from being cut.

badboy
07-22-2011, 11:51 PM
No and yes. Cody's not great, but serviceable. Okoye is probably a few days from being cut.I wished we could get a 7th round pick before he goes.

HJam72
07-23-2011, 02:25 AM
The lower the ratio, the worse. :foottap:

Hilarious

The Pencil Neck
07-23-2011, 02:45 AM
Shaun Cody ranks at the top. What does it mean?

It means that if Shaun Cody gets his mitts on you, your ass is tackled.

If Amobi Okoye gets his mitts on you, you've got a pretty good chance of slipping out of his grasp.

Sounds like someone needs to either learn to wrap up OR work on their grip strength.

DocBar
07-23-2011, 09:02 AM
I find it odd that Bentley was the only Texans LB on here AND that he was top 15. Does this infer that Bentley is a better LB than Ryans? I know he missed most of last with an injury.
I also wouldn't put too much emphasis on the DB #'s. I wouldn't pay my CB's to be tackling machines. A dominant CB won't have enough passes thrown his way to be good at tackling. That's what I want to see.

This seems like a cherry picked article. It says 2008-2010 but it doesn't show MW or Ryans. They were definitely in the mix tackles wise. How come they don't show up? I'd like to see a full list not just top and bottom 15.

DocBar
07-23-2011, 09:50 AM
Posluszney should be available and would be a great fit in our 3-4 at ILB.

Doppelganger
07-23-2011, 10:48 AM
Someone needs to get Okoye some Stick 'Um

CloakNNNdagger
07-23-2011, 10:50 AM
I find it odd that Bentley was the only Texans LB on here AND that he was top 15. Does this infer that Bentley is a better LB than Ryans? I know he missed most of last with an injury.
I also wouldn't put too much emphasis on the DB #'s. I wouldn't pay my CB's to be tackling machines. A dominant CB won't have enough passes thrown his way to be good at tackling. That's what I want to see.

This seems like a cherry picked article. It says 2008-2010 but it doesn't show MW or Ryans. They were definitely in the mix tackles wise. How come they don't show up? I'd like to see a full list not just top and bottom 15.

As much as many fans revere Demeco, let's keep it real. Since his rookie year (2006), he has never had reached 100 tackles (125 in 2006, 99 in 2007, 86 in 2008, 93 in 2009, and 32 in 6 games in 2010). He has had only 8 sacks in 5 seasons, with 3.5 occurring in his rookie year.

The Pencil Neck
07-23-2011, 10:53 AM
I find it odd that Bentley was the only Texans LB on here AND that he was top 15. Does this infer that Bentley is a better LB than Ryans? I know he missed most of last with an injury.
I also wouldn't put too much emphasis on the DB #'s. I wouldn't pay my CB's to be tackling machines. A dominant CB won't have enough passes thrown his way to be good at tackling. That's what I want to see.

This seems like a cherry picked article. It says 2008-2010 but it doesn't show MW or Ryans. They were definitely in the mix tackles wise. How come they don't show up? I'd like to see a full list not just top and bottom 15.

Because it's not about the NUMBER of tackles, it's about the ratio of hits and misses. This number doesn't tell how GOOD a player is, it tells how good a player is at making the tackle when they have the chance.

When Bentley got a chance to tackle you, he tackled you. He wrapped you up and put you down. The problem is, he's not good enough to get into the right spot quick enough to put himself in position to make the tackle like Cush and Demeco. They aren't as sure at tackling as he is but they're better linebackers and see the field more.

This isn't an indication of how good or bad someone is at playing their position. It's just an indication of how good or bad they are at tackling.

TimeKiller
07-23-2011, 11:37 AM
I can't imagine what these clowns saw in Okoye to make him a top 10 pick ahead of some truly elite players. Cut him, admit mistake and cut him, save the money for guys who at least EARNED the right to ask for bookoobucks. Cut Okoye and make Leach a happy fullback. Make an offer to some REAL defensive backs.

Seriously, what was it? He's not a good tackler, he's not explosive off the line, his pass rush repetoire includes hoping the OL doesn't notice him, he's not productive, he's not capable of taking attention off of Mario or using the attention paid to Mario to his advantage, he's not over powering, he doesn't get his hands up.....geezus, should I go on? He hasn't progressed a single step since having the keys handed over to him, he costs a boatload and he totally sucks in every situation, every down.

Cut.

DocBar
07-23-2011, 11:40 AM
Because it's not about the NUMBER of tackles, it's about the ratio of hits and misses. This number doesn't tell how GOOD a player is, it tells how good a player is at making the tackle when they have the chance.

When Bentley got a chance to tackle you, he tackled you. He wrapped you up and put you down. The problem is, he's not good enough to get into the right spot quick enough to put himself in position to make the tackle like Cush and Demeco. They aren't as sure at tackling as he is but they're better linebackers and see the field more.

This isn't an indication of how good or bad someone is at playing their position. It's just an indication of how good or bad they are at tackling.I can't think of that many missed tackles for Ryans or MW. MW seems to be a very sure tackler. I do see a lot of RB's kick it back inside against MW. He's pretty good at staying at home and/or stringing plays out to the sidelines.
I would also have to say that tackling would be a very good indication as to how good a defensive player, that isn't a cb, is.

Doppelganger
07-23-2011, 12:10 PM
As much as many fans revere Demeco, let's keep it real. Since his rookie year (2006), he has never had reached 100 tackles (125 in 2006, 99 in 2007, 86 in 2008, 93 in 2009, and 32 in 6 games in 2010). He has had only 8 sacks in 5 seasons, with 3.5 occurring in his rookie year.

You are only looking at solo tackles. You need to consider total tackles.

In 2006, Meco had 126 solo and 30 assisted for 156 total (#2 overall)
In 2007, Meco had 99 solo and 29 assisted for 128 total. (# 6 overall)
In 2008, Meco had 86 solo and 26 assisted for 112 total. (# 28 overall)
In 2009, Meco had 93 solo and 30 assisted for 123 total. (# 8 overall)(Meco was one tackle out of the top 10).

It should be noted that in 2009 Cushing's numbers were:
86 solo, 47 assisted for 133 (#6) overall.

Meco is a top 10 tackler when healthy. He had one bad season in 2008 and did not play a full 2010. I expect him and Cushing to be back in the top 10 in 2011.

TimeKiller
07-23-2011, 12:12 PM
I can't think of that many missed tackles for Ryans or MW. MW seems to be a very sure tackler. I do see a lot of RB's kick it back inside against MW. He's pretty good at staying at home and/or stringing plays out to the sidelines.
I would also have to say that tackling would be a very good indication as to how good a defensive player, that isn't a cb, is.

Ha, when all we hear about is how good this corner is at tackling, willing tackler, yadayadayada nobody ever says "CAN HE COVER?!?!"

Wade's picks, Harris/Carmicheal seem like guys who are "Cover first" (like that should even be a question) type of corners. These guys like Quin and Jackson and Molden and Bennett all seemed like safeties who were just a little short of being able to play corner.

playa465
07-23-2011, 12:27 PM
not much weight here...DL are never tackling machines that ratio to miss is going to be high...they do the dirty work for LBs to make the plays (tackles)...the same argument can be made that if a DL has more attempts then he is more disruptive which again can lead to others making more plays or causing the offense to do something it didnt want to do.

DocBar
07-23-2011, 12:42 PM
not much weight here...DL are never tackling machines that ratio to miss is going to be high...they do the dirty work for LBs to make the plays (tackles)...the same argument can be made that if a DL has more attempts then he is more disruptive which again can lead to others making more plays or causing the offense to do something it didnt want to do.I don't think the number of tackles would be all that great an indicaator, but misses would be. You want a DL that puts the ball carrier on the ground when he gets his paws on him. Missing tackles allows a ball carrier to cut back and get lots of yards once they're in the 2nd level. Combining a high ratio of DL and LB missed tackles leads to a poor rushing defense, which leads us to the Texans in '08 and the start of '09. Hmmmmm....maybe there's something to this....:foottap:

playa465
07-23-2011, 01:05 PM
I don't think the number of tackles would be all that great an indicaator, but misses would be. You want a DL that puts the ball carrier on the ground when he gets his paws onhim. Missing tackles allows a ball carrier to cut back and get lots of yards once they're in the 2nd level. Combining a high ratio of DL and LB missed tackles leads to a poor rushing defense, which leads us to the Texans in '08 and the start of '09. Hmmmmm....maybe there's something to this....:foottap:

Yes of course you would always like to get a ball carrier down with any contact, but its just not going to be the case. Impacting the play that stops the offense from doing what it wants to do is my preference (turnovers, getting stops on 3rd downs, eliminating big plays etc.). I wonder how they are calculating missed tackles...in any case recent history has shown the Texans have not excelled at the fundamentals of tackling

DocBar
07-23-2011, 01:39 PM
Yes of course you would always like to get a ball carrier down with any contact, but its just not going to be the case. Impacting the play that stops the offense from doing what it wants to do is my preference (turnovers, getting stops on 3rd downs, eliminating big plays etc.). I wonder how they are calculating missed tackles...in any case recent history has shown the Texans have not excelled at the fundamentals of tackling

The poorest tackling techniques I see usually come from db's in open field situations where they try to dive at the legs and arm tackle or just run into the ball carrier and try to knock them down. This is across the NFL. I see very, very few plays where the defender actually wraps up and tackles through the ball carrier like you're taught to do from Pee Wee on up. Cushing usually does a good job of proper tackling.

thunderkyss
07-23-2011, 02:02 PM
not much weight here...DL are never tackling machines that ratio to miss is going to be high...they do the dirty work for LBs to make the plays (tackles)...the same argument can be made that if a DL has more attempts then he is more disruptive which again can lead to others making more plays or causing the offense to do something it didnt want to do.

According to the article, the DL are usually the best tacklers. At least they have the best tackling ratio.

CloakNNNdagger
07-23-2011, 02:33 PM
You are only looking at solo tackles. You need to consider total tackles.

In 2006, Meco had 126 solo and 30 assisted for 156 total (#2 overall)
In 2007, Meco had 99 solo and 29 assisted for 128 total. (# 6 overall)
In 2008, Meco had 86 solo and 26 assisted for 112 total. (# 28 overall)
In 2009, Meco had 93 solo and 30 assisted for 123 total. (# 8 overall)(Meco was one tackle out of the top 10).

It should be noted that in 2009 Cushing's numbers were:
86 solo, 47 assisted for 133 (#6) overall.

Meco is a top 10 tackler when healthy. He had one bad season in 2008 and did not play a full 2010. I expect him and Cushing to be back in the top 10 in 2011.

I should have qualified the word "solo." But I posted those numbers to demonstrate that the tackle machine we were expecting after the 2006 rookie season did not evolve. After his type of Achilles injury, I would not be counting on any return to "greatness." I would settle for being pleasantly surprised with "adequate."

playa465
07-23-2011, 02:36 PM
According to the article, the DL are usually the best tacklers. At least they have the best tackling ratio.

Less opportunities...

Wolf6151
07-23-2011, 04:31 PM
I should have qualified the word "solo." But I posted those numbers to demonstrate that the tackle machine we were expecting after the 2006 rookie season did not evolve. After his type of Achilles injury, I would not be counting on any return to "greatness." I would settle for being pleasantly surprised with "adequate."


This is what scares me about the upcoming season. Combine Demeco's injury with an undersized NT, Mitchell at 291 lbs., and Cushing minus the juice, and this is a recipe for disaster in the run game.

CloakNNNdagger
07-23-2011, 07:47 PM
This is what scares me about the upcoming season. Combine Demeco's injury with an undersized NT, Mitchell at 291 lbs., and Cushing minus the juice, and this is a recipe for disaster in the run game.

I agree 100%, especially without a space eating NT on 3rd/4th and 1 or less, and goal line stands. Scares me big time.

Doppelganger
07-24-2011, 12:39 PM
I should have qualified the word "solo." But I posted those numbers to demonstrate that the tackle machine we were expecting after the 2006 rookie season did not evolve. After his type of Achilles injury, I would not be counting on any return to "greatness." I would settle for being pleasantly surprised with "adequate."

I think it is also worth noting that Meco will be in a 3-4 with Cush right next to him. I imagine there will be a ton of group tackles between them. While he had an Achilles injury, having Cush next to him, will be helpful. He will not need to be the Super Meco, he will just have to be good, and I think he can do that.

dalemurphy
07-24-2011, 04:35 PM
This is what scares me about the upcoming season. Combine Demeco's injury with an undersized NT, Mitchell at 291 lbs., and Cushing minus the juice, and this is a recipe for disaster in the run game.

Let's see what happens in free agency. I'm sure they will address the DL or ILB position next week. I'm expecting at least two impact signings on the defensive side of the ball- with one being at CB... Also, they'll be adding depth at those positions as well. I think we are going to see a lot of roster turnover in the next two weeks.

Wolf6151
07-24-2011, 10:45 PM
I sure hope your right Dale. I see NT as just as big of a need as CB and FS/SS. I hope the Texans don't throw all their eggs in one basket if they land Aso or Joseph and expect that to be the answer on defense. NT and FS/SS are equally huge holes.

steelbtexan
07-24-2011, 11:19 PM
I sure hope your right Dale. I see NT as just as big of a need as CB and FS/SS. I hope the Texans don't throw all their eggs in one basket if they land Aso or Joseph and expect that to be the answer on defense. NT and FS/SS are equally huge holes.

If the Texans land one of the top tier DB's (not necessarily Aso) what position would you like to see filled? NT/SS/ILB/WR

If they dont sign a top tier CB and end up signing a guy like Josh Wilson they should be able to fill 3 of those holes.

They should be able to sign a FA like Aso and a SS on the cheap like Atari Bigby. He's got talent but got injured last yr. Quin and Bigby at S and Aso/Allen/Harris/Jackson at CB would be a much improved Secondary.

They probably need to sign a cheap street FA ILB and an undrafted FA like Herzlich for depth.

Which route would you go?

chicagotexan2
07-25-2011, 12:03 AM
I wished we could get a 7th round pick before he goes.

Why so Rick smith could draft a TE or qb from Texas tech. Okoye is here because our gm sucks.

Wolf6151
07-25-2011, 03:57 AM
If the Texans land one of the top tier DB's (not necessarily Aso) what position would you like to see filled? NT/SS/ILB/WR

If they dont sign a top tier CB and end up signing a guy like Josh Wilson they should be able to fill 3 of those holes.

They should be able to sign a FA like Aso and a SS on the cheap like Atari Bigby. He's got talent but got injured last yr. Quin and Bigby at S and Aso/Allen/Harris/Jackson at CB would be a much improved Secondary.

They probably need to sign a cheap street FA ILB and an undrafted FA like Herzlich for depth.

Which route would you go?


I agree with you about the cheap street FA at ILB and WR, they're not gaping holes for now. I'd like Aso on the team but honestly if he's as expensive as we think he'll be then I'd rather spread some of that money around and fill several holes with good talent instead of filling one hole with great talent. I'd make a serious play for Joseph-CB while the rest of the league fights over Aso and since Joseph shouldn't be quite as expensive as Aso I'd spend some of that money saved on Weddle at SS/FS. Safeties aren't near as expensive as CB's. I'd like to see Aubrayo Franklin-NT or Brandon Mebane-NT. Of course all of this is speculation since I don't know how much money the Texans have to spend, who they'll cut to make room for FA (hopefully they'll trim alot of fat), or how expensive those FA will be but I can always dream. Hopefully it shouldn't be to long til we find out, FA should only be a few days away.

Goatcheese
07-25-2011, 11:22 AM
I can has Vince Wilfork (10.33), Kevin Williams(10.92), Lance Briggs (7.63), and Nnamdi Asomugha (5.45) pl0x?

If they're that bad I'm sure they won't mind taking league minimum. :kitten:

Wolf
07-25-2011, 08:47 PM
One more performance worth noting, heaping yet more misery on the underachieving career thus far of Amobi Okoye – he was the poorest performing defensive lineman by some distance in the study, missing one in every 8.08 of his attempts over the past three seasons.




http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/07/21/missed-tackles-three-year-bests-and-worsts/

flipside Shawn Cody is in the top 15 with 88.00 attempts per miss

Reeves was in the top 15 in tackles