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Wolf
07-18-2011, 08:09 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d820d760e/Top-5-QB-WR-combos?campaign=Facebook_videos


5 Vick/Jackson
4 Ryan/White
3 Manning/Wayne
2 Brady/Welker
1 Rogers/Jennings

probably the :homer: in me, but I thought Johnson/Schaub would be atleast #5 or 4

they mention them at the end of the clip... now they look at team success as part of the list

Lucky
07-18-2011, 09:57 PM
How are Matt Ryan and Roddy White or Vick & Jackson considered to be better than Schaub & AJ? Ridiculous.

Manning & Wayne should have been #1.

brakos82
07-18-2011, 10:07 PM
6: Palmer/Polamalu

Allstar
07-18-2011, 11:20 PM
Vick and Jackson have played 1 year together. Ryan and White is ridiculous. Matt Ryan is not a very good player. He checks down every play and they were last in the league in plays more than 20 yards because of him. He gets the golden boy treatment for no reason.

Like the top 100, this is more evidence that Schaub just does not command respect around the league.

DX-TEX
07-19-2011, 12:23 AM
6: Palmer/polamalu

lol.

Dutchrudder
07-19-2011, 09:09 AM
6: Palmer/Polamalu

7. Cromartie/Strippers

El Tejano
07-19-2011, 09:16 AM
So appearantly leading the league in receptions or yards no longer qualifies as a top 5 combo!

Dutchrudder
07-19-2011, 01:06 PM
So appearantly leading the league in receptions or yards no longer qualifies as a top 5 combo!

Well to be fair, this list is just Kurt Warner and Torry Holt's combined opinion. It doesn't really mean all that much, but the NFL channel has a lot of time to fill during this lockout.

Allstar
07-19-2011, 02:59 PM
Well to be fair, this list is just Kurt Warner and Torry Holt's combined opinion. It doesn't really mean all that much, but the NFL channel has a lot of time to fill during this lockout.

To continue to be fair, Warner stressed that helping your team win was a big part of the ranking process, which AJ and Schaub haven't done.

infantrycak
07-19-2011, 04:00 PM
To continue to be fair, Warner stressed that helping your team win was a big part of the ranking process, which AJ and Schaub haven't done.

Which to continue to continue to be fair is kind of BS because how does he know the Texans wouldn't have won 25 less games over the last 5 years without that combo? Overall record shouldn't be the indicator. Differential record should be. What would happen if these one or two players were gone. Manning is clearly #1. Brady while great is questionable since he left and the team barely noticed. Saying Schaub and AJ haven't helped their team is absurd.

Texecutioner
07-19-2011, 04:23 PM
You guys acting like Matt Ryan and Roddy WHite being on there as some sort of problem are out of your minds. Roddy White is barely behind AJ and I'd take Matt Ryan over Scahub any day of the week. For someone to say that Ryan isn't even any good is just asinine. The kid has only played in 3 seasons and in two of them had one of the best records in the entire NFC and has shown great leadership right off the bat and he went to a team that was awful when he got there. Roddy White has been lighting it up for years now and him and Ryan have been easily one of the best combos in the league.

I'd put

1. Manning/Wayne
2. Ryan/White
3. Schaub/Johnson
4. Brady/Welker
5. Rodgers/Jennings

Manning and Wayne are easily #1 here for the simple fact that they've been a great combo for way more years than anyone else on this list.

Brady and Welker would be higher, but White, Johnson, and Wayne are all that much better than Welker so they get bumped higher.

Ryan and White go higher than Schaub and Johnson to me because Roddy White is just a hair behind AJ as a receiver. He arguably had a better season than AJ last year as well. Matt Ryan has has led his team to two more post season appearences than Schaub has who has yet to even make the post season and Matt Ryan has only played in 3 seasons and just last year his numbers were right there with Schaub's numbers and over all he was a better QB in my opinion. He certainly has had a much better start to his career than Schaub has had.

Texecutioner
07-19-2011, 04:26 PM
So appearantly leading the league in receptions or yards no longer qualifies as a top 5 combo!

This isn't about just AJ by himself. You've got to consider the QB and the WR and how long they've played great together and what they've both accomplished statistically and as far as wins. I put Schaub and Johnson in my top 3 personally and I don't think that is anything to sneeze at or have a problem with. It's top 3.

Goatcheese
07-20-2011, 03:48 PM
You do know that Schaub was 6th in the NFL in YPA and Ryan was 26th right?

Schaub was 5th in Yards/Game Ryan was 15th.

Schaub was 2nd in plays of 20+ yards Ryan was 24th.

I would take Schaub 9,001 out of 9,001 times over Captain Checkdown.

Texecutioner
07-20-2011, 04:29 PM
You do know that Schaub was 6th in the NFL in YPA and Ryan was 26th right?

Schaub was 5th in Yards/Game Ryan was 15th.

Schaub was 2nd in plays of 20+ yards Ryan was 24th.

I would take Schaub 9,001 out of 9,001 times over Captain Checkdown.

These stats don't prove anything other than the fact that you can cherry pick some stats. I could do the same for Matt Ryan, but it would be a waste of time. Ryan came out the gate as a starter and didn't even struggle like most rookies do in his first season. He's been a true leader since day one. Schaub wasn't even an NFL starter until he was traded while Ryan has already been to two playoff appearances in only 3 seasons and changed the dynamics of that franchise at the time. Ryan went through his learning curve in his first two seasons, and last year he had a great statistical season showing that he can hang with some of the elite QB's statistically and in the wins category. Holler at me when Schaub can at least make it to his first post season where he actually plays. Hopefully he can do it by year 10 or has that already happened? Scuab is good and he is top 10, but to act like he is worlds better than Matt Ryan is one of the most homerish things I've ever heard honestly. I could understand someone thinking he is better and saying it's real close, but to say some of the things you're saying comes off like a person who has never watched Ryan play before and is speaking out of fan worship and not logic.

infantrycak
07-20-2011, 05:24 PM
Schaub wasn't even an NFL starter until he was traded ...

Oh c'mon. Schaub was behind the man with the highest contract in the NFL. If Vick's arrest had come a little earlier Schaub would be the starting QB for the Falcons and Ryan would be on some other team. Many fans were already clamoring for Schaub to start over Vick which is what got him traded. And I am not putting Ryan down at all. He has been very good.

And yeah it is fun to demean stats but having a career average full yard less on yards per attempt is meaningful. And it is reflected in Ryan having half of the long balls Schaub has over the last three years even with a top tier WR.

Texecutioner
07-20-2011, 05:41 PM
Oh c'mon. Schaub was behind the man with the highest contract in the NFL. If Vick's arrest had come a little earlier Schaub would be the starting QB for the Falcons and Ryan would be on some other team. Many fans were already clamoring for Schaub to start over Vick which is what got him traded. And I am not putting Ryan down at all. He has been very good.

Well he didn't start and he never won the job over Vick who played barely above average his last two seasons before the dog thing. You can say what you want, but those are the facts. He wasn't a starter coming into the league and Ryan not only was, but was damn good right out the gate leading one of the worst teams in the league to one of the best records in the NFC that season.

And yeah it is fun to demean stats but having a career average full yard less on yards per attempt is meaningful. And it is reflected in Ryan having half of the long balls Schaub has over the last three years even with a top tier WR.

I've stated that they are very close as far as where I'd rank them. I don't see how that is a knock on Schaub. Saying he is very close and almost as good as Ryan is a compliment in my eyes. But for folks acting like Schaub is way better and all of this other stuff can't even be taken seriously as an informed fan at all. Ryan, Schaub, and Romo are all very close right behind Big Ben and Phillip Rivers. What Ryan has done in his first 3 seasons simply can't be denied though and he's putting up great stats along with wins. Schaub has yet to see the post season and hasn't shown the ability to carry his team to that next level as well as Matt has. He simply hasn't. Schaub has shown that he can be clutch at times and come up big, but more times than none he has made some bad plays at the end of games when he had opportunities. Matt Ryan reminds me of a poor version of Tom Brady while Schaub reminds me of a poor version of Kurt Warner. They're both very good, but not quite elite. Matt Ryan just might sneak into that elite category very soon though.

infantrycak
07-20-2011, 05:49 PM
I'm not accusing you of slighting Schaub. I think they are close and it comes down to personal choice. I would put Schaub slightly over Ryan and you would reverse that. I was really reacting to the one comment I quoted as I don't think being an immediate starter is a reasonable standard. Ryan could have been drafted by Indy and he wouldn't have been the immediate starter there. The circumstances not the talent largely dictate whether that happens. And seriously, the Falcons were not going to pay Vick $11 mil to sit on the bench behind Schaub. Schaub had zero chance to beat Vick out for the starting job. That is no reflection on Schaub.

Allstar
07-20-2011, 05:53 PM
These stats don't prove anything other than the fact that you can cherry pick some stats. I could do the same for Matt Ryan, but it would be a waste of time.

Please do. Matt Ryan was drafted in a good situation and has the luxury of a good team around him. Sure his team "won" but so did Mark Sanchez's.

Texecutioner
07-20-2011, 06:06 PM
Please do. Matt Ryan was drafted in a good situation and has the luxury of a good team around him. Sure his team "won" but so did Mark Sanchez's.

Drafted to a good team? Lol!

They were terrible and in disarray. They had gone like 3-13 the year before he got there. He wasn't even expected to start as a rookie until pre season started and he impressed his teammates and coaches so much just in his first game of pre season that he gained the starting job and led a team that wasn't expected to do **** to an impressive 11-5 record. You put a new rookie Qb in who has great leadership skills and all of a sudden you've got a team that goes from being one of the worst in the league to a playoff team.

EllisUnit
07-20-2011, 06:17 PM
You guys acting like Matt Ryan and Roddy WHite being on there as some sort of problem are out of your minds. Roddy White is barely behind AJ and I'd take Matt Ryan over Scahub any day of the week. For someone to say that Ryan isn't even any good is just asinine. The kid has only played in 3 seasons and in two of them had one of the best records in the entire NFC and has shown great leadership right off the bat and he went to a team that was awful when he got there. Roddy White has been lighting it up for years now and him and Ryan have been easily one of the best combos in the league.

I'd put

1. Manning/Wayne
2. Ryan/White
3. Schaub/Johnson
4. Brady/Welker
5. Rodgers/Jennings

Manning and Wayne are easily #1 here for the simple fact that they've been a great combo for way more years than anyone else on this list.

Brady and Welker would be higher, but White, Johnson, and Wayne are all that much better than Welker so they get bumped higher.

Ryan and White go higher than Schaub and Johnson to me because Roddy White is just a hair behind AJ as a receiver. He arguably had a better season than AJ last year as well. Matt Ryan has has led his team to two more post season appearences than Schaub has who has yet to even make the post season and Matt Ryan has only played in 3 seasons and just last year his numbers were right there with Schaub's numbers and over all he was a better QB in my opinion. He certainly has had a much better start to his career than Schaub has had.

Well thats saying a lot since AJ did spring his ankle in week 2 and missed the last 2 games of the season :thisbig:

Texecutioner
07-20-2011, 06:20 PM
Well thats saying a lot since AJ did spring his ankle in week 2 and missed the last 2 games of the season :thisbig:

I don't really see what your point is. AJ got hurt for a few games. So what. Roddy White is a complete stud and has been for years. AJ has been slightly better than him but just slightly I'd say and last season alone White was arguably just as good or better. He dominated all year long. The difference in the top 4 to 5 WR's in the NFL is very very minimal. It's more of a matter of preference. There are many people that would still put Larry Fitzgerald over AJ. Not me, but I could certainly understand why. I'd say AJ and Fitz are both 1A and 1B as the best two guys in the league at WR.

EllisUnit
07-20-2011, 07:17 PM
I don't really see what your point is. AJ got hurt for a few games. So what. Roddy White is a complete stud and has been for years. AJ has been slightly better than him but just slightly I'd say and last season alone White was arguably just as good or better. He dominated all year long. The difference in the top 4 to 5 WR's in the NFL is very very minimal. It's more of a matter of preference. There are many people that would still put Larry Fitzgerald over AJ. Not me, but I could certainly understand why. I'd say AJ and Fitz are both 1A and 1B as the best two guys in the league at WR.

Hurt for a few games. He was hurt the whole season, Didnt know if he was gonna play many games until right before kick off and then when we were for sure out of the play-offs he went ahead and called it a season 2 games early. So A.J missed 3 total games in 2010 and had Surgery on it during the off season and u say that White arguably has a better season than A.J. HAHAHAHAHA

Allstar
07-20-2011, 08:37 PM
Drafted to a good team? Lol!

They were terrible and in disarray. They had gone like 3-13 the year before he got there. He wasn't even expected to start as a rookie until pre season started and he impressed his teammates and coaches so much just in his first game of pre season that he gained the starting job and led a team that wasn't expected to do **** to an impressive 11-5 record. You put a new rookie Qb in who has great leadership skills and all of a sudden you've got a team that goes from being one of the worst in the league to a playoff team.

He was drafted in a good situation, and now thanks to mike Smith and the Atl FO, has a good team around him. Ryan isn't a bad QB, but please watch some Falcons games. He's a game manager that doesn't do anything spectacular. Roddy white bails him out constantly and even then their offense is the least explosive in the league. Like I said before, he's Sanchez tier and gets the golden boy treatment for not being Joey Harrington.

Dutchrudder
07-20-2011, 11:07 PM
Hurt for a few games. He was hurt the whole season, Didnt know if he was gonna play many games until right before kick off and then when we were for sure out of the play-offs he went ahead and called it a season 2 games early. So A.J missed 3 total games in 2010 and had Surgery on it during the off season and u say that White arguably has a better season than A.J. HAHAHAHAHA

:kubepalm:

Do you know what the word 'arguably' means?

EllisUnit
07-20-2011, 11:32 PM
:kubepalm:

Do you know what the word 'arguably' means?

are you seriously asking me that :whip:. thats funny. It means its debatable. And i havent seen to many people debate that A.J is the #1 WR in the NFL, and to do what he did last season on a bad ankle just proves that he is the best, so no argument needed.

Dutchrudder
07-21-2011, 10:16 AM
are you seriously asking me that :whip:. thats funny. It means its debatable. And i havent seen to many people debate that A.J is the #1 WR in the NFL, and to do what he did last season on a bad ankle just proves that he is the best, so no argument needed.

Homerism at its best. Giving the guy a handicap due to injury is a joke when comparing a single season performances. Here are the 2010 stats:

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/wrstats2010.jpg

In 2010, whether I'm a GM of an NFL team or a Fantasy Football owner, I will take Roddy White over AJ. White wins in receptions, yards and TDs, and he played in all 16 games. That equals a better season that what AJ did in 2010.

Texecutioner
07-21-2011, 10:44 AM
Hurt for a few games. He was hurt the whole season, Didnt know if he was gonna play many games until right before kick off and then when we were for sure out of the play-offs he went ahead and called it a season 2 games early. So A.J missed 3 total games in 2010 and had Surgery on it during the off season and u say that White arguably has a better season than A.J. HAHAHAHAHA

are you seriously asking me that :whip:. thats funny. It means its debatable. And i havent seen to many people debate that A.J is the #1 WR in the NFL, and to do what he did last season on a bad ankle just proves that he is the best, so no argument needed.

You obviously don't know anything about Roddy White or other WR's around the NFL. No sense in even continuing this discussion than. AJ is a Texan so he is the best no matter what to you. I get it.

Texecutioner
07-21-2011, 10:51 AM
He was drafted in a good situation, and now thanks to mike Smith and the Atl FO, has a good team around him. Ryan isn't a bad QB, but please watch some Falcons games. He's a game manager that doesn't do anything spectacular. Roddy white bails him out constantly and even then their offense is the least explosive in the league. Like I said before, he's Sanchez tier and gets the golden boy treatment for not being Joey Harrington.

He wasn't drafted to any good situation. That team was a mess and had a brand new coach. They weren't expected to do anything. In what world is going to a team that had just gone 3-13 the season prior with a brand new coach and new system a "good situation?" That's just ignorant. Even after they had a great season that year, many people acted like it was luck or something. After their 2nd season people continued to write them off as one year wonders and up and behold, they come out with the best record in the NFC last season? Coincidence?? Only to people like yourself that want to discredit Matt Ryan, but QB's who have great stats and get their team to 13 wins aren't just game managers.

Calling him Mark Sanchez is just silly. The guy threw for like 28 TD's and only 9 INT's for 3,700 yards. By what standard is that not great for a QB in the NFL especially in their 3rd season while having the best record in the NFC?? Sorry, but you're shooting nothing but blanks here. Matt Ryan is a proven commodity in this league and to call him a game manager with stats like that is a freaking joke.

Texecutioner
07-21-2011, 10:59 AM
Homerism at its best. Giving the guy a handicap due to injury is a joke when comparing a single season performances. Here are the 2010 stats:

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/wrstats2010.jpg

In 2010, whether I'm a GM of an NFL team or a Fantasy Football owner, I will take Roddy White over AJ. White wins in receptions, yards and TDs, and he played in all 16 games. That equals a better season that what AJ did in 2010.

There are certain fans in here that will always argue that the Texans are a top team or that our players are always the best in whatever the discussion is. This is obviously one of them.

Wolf
07-21-2011, 04:59 PM
but could White do this?

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/139795/andre-johnson-o.gif
:runaway: :kitten:

EllisUnit
07-21-2011, 05:30 PM
Homerism at its best. Giving the guy a handicap due to injury is a joke when comparing a single season performances. Here are the 2010 stats:

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/wrstats2010.jpg

In 2010, whether I'm a GM of an NFL team or a Fantasy Football owner, I will take Roddy White over AJ. White wins in receptions, yards and TDs, and he played in all 16 games. That equals a better season that what AJ did in 2010.

AJ better avg. more yards per game. more gains of 20+ yards. more gains of 40+ yards. I'd say that the NFL is lucky AJ missed 3 games otherwise he could of broken that 1,500 yards mark for 3 seasons in a row. I'd take AJ over white any day of the week. And AJ played with the injury most NFL players arent that dedicated.

Texecutioner
07-21-2011, 05:33 PM
but could White do this?

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/139795/andre-johnson-o.gif
:runaway: :kitten:

I don't think any WR in the league could do that other than maybe Megatron.

AJ is great because of his size and because of how he man handles DB's and out muscles them. He isn't as good as a route runner as Larry Fitzgerald in my opinion though, and he definitely doesn't have as good of hands at pure catching. Fitz doesn't have the size that AJ does, nor can he do what you just saw in that video. Over all it's more about preference with the top WR's. I think someone could make a very good argument that Reggie Wayne is the best in the league. I wouldn't agree, but I'd listen and hear it out. I'd put AJ and Fitz as i! and 1B though personally and I'd put Roddy White and Wayne just barely below the two of them. For all we know though, Megatron might blow everyone away this season.

Texecutioner
07-21-2011, 05:35 PM
And AJ played with the injury most NFL players arent that dedicated.

Seems like this has been your only argument this entire time. AJ was hurt, AJ was hurt, Aj was hurt!!!

I guess it's impossible to think that another WR might have gotten nicked up in a 16 game season and played hurt as well in your world. That could only happen to AJ. Lol!

infantrycak
07-21-2011, 05:52 PM
I don't think any WR in the league could do that other than maybe Megatron.

In oh say 37 years of watching football I have never seen any WR pull off anything close to that. That says something by itself.

Although I agree with your fundamental idea that the top 5 are different but not that far apart. I think the route running comment relates more to early AJ than recent AJ. He has become a great route runner rather than just a size and speed receiver.

EllisUnit
07-21-2011, 05:56 PM
Seems like this has been your only argument this entire time. AJ was hurt, AJ was hurt, Aj was hurt!!!

I guess it's impossible to think that another WR might have gotten nicked up in a 16 game season and played hurt as well in your world. That could only happen to AJ. Lol!

Roddy white 7 seasons pro has 8 fumbles - AJ 9 seasons Pro 6 fumbles

Roddy white 63.3 yards per game - AJ 79.7 yards per game

Roddy white had 5 100 yard receiving games last season in 17 total games
AJ had 6 100 yard receiving games last season in 13 total games



SINCE 2005
Roddy White has 23 100 yard receiving games in his career - including play-offs :)
AJ has 30 100 yard receiving yard games and thats with him missing 9 games.

Texecutioner
07-21-2011, 06:07 PM
In oh say 37 years of watching football I have never seen any WR pull off anything close to that. That says something by itself.

Although I agree with your fundamental idea that the top 5 are different but not that far apart. I think the route running comment relates more to early AJ than recent AJ. He has become a great route runner rather than just a size and speed receiver.

Oh, I'm not saying that AJ isn't a great route runner or that he doesn't have great hands. I think he is great at both. I just watch Larry Fitzgerald and I think he's got better hands than any receiver in the league and he runs the best routes I've ever seen next to Jerry Rice. Fitz is sort of like AJ in that he is everything you'd want in a receiver as far as having a great work ethic and attitude as well. Just all around great athlete like AJ. AJ is better at using his body and out muscling DB's physically than Fitz though. He is better running after the catch as well.

infantrycak
07-21-2011, 08:04 PM
I just watch Larry Fitzgerald and I think he's got better hands than any receiver in the league and he runs the best routes I've ever seen next to Jerry Rice.

I would need to look at Fitz more to comment on the routes. Hands is a funny issue. If I wanted to pick a WR to grab a mis-thrown ball on a leaping or diving catch I would probably pick Fitz. If I wanted a WR to go up in traffic and catch the ball with DB's jacking with him I would pick AJ. Different kinds of hands as well. And you gotta give AJ the one-handed end-zone catch against the Tacks.

Texecutioner
07-21-2011, 08:36 PM
I would need to look at Fitz more to comment on the routes. Hands is a funny issue. If I wanted to pick a WR to grab a mis-thrown ball on a leaping or diving catch I would probably pick Fitz. If I wanted a WR to go up in traffic and catch the ball with DB's jacking with him I would pick AJ. Different kinds of hands as well. And you gotta give AJ the one-handed end-zone catch against the Tacks.

Fitz is just fluid on the routes man. The only guy I think is possibly as good is maybe Reggie Wayne. Marvin Harrison was just as good, but he isn't in the league anymore, but Harrison was just sick. Johnson and Roddy White are better at using their size and physical strength and just man handling guys. I hear ya on catching in traffic. No one tougher than AJ, that's for sure. But hands, man I got to give that to Fitz for sure. AJ is good but he drops passes occassionally that he shouldn't. Over all I think that Calvin Johnson has the most potential if their QB situation ever gets consistent.

EllisUnit
07-21-2011, 09:30 PM
Roddy white 7 seasons pro has 8 fumbles - AJ 9 seasons Pro 6 fumbles

Roddy white 63.3 yards per game - AJ 79.7 yards per game

Roddy white had 5 100 yard receiving games last season in 17 total games
AJ had 6 100 yard receiving games last season in 13 total games



SINCE 2005
Roddy White has 23 100 yard receiving games in his career - including play-offs :)
AJ has 30 100 yard receiving yard games and thats with him missing 9 games.

:foottap:

Mr teX
07-22-2011, 07:22 AM
Fitz is just fluid on the routes man. The only guy I think is possibly as good is maybe Reggie Wayne. Marvin Harrison was just as good, but he isn't in the league anymore, but Harrison was just sick. Johnson and Roddy White are better at using their size and physical strength and just man handling guys. I hear ya on catching in traffic. No one tougher than AJ, that's for sure. But hands, man I got to give that to Fitz for sure. AJ is good but he drops passes occassionally that he shouldn't. Over all I think that Calvin Johnson has the most potential if their QB situation ever gets consistent.

reggie wayne is monster running routes...that's pretty much his hallmark as a WR...Fitz is a smidge below.

infantrycak
07-22-2011, 09:50 AM
But hands, man I got to give that to Fitz for sure. AJ is good but he drops passes occassionally that he shouldn't.

The thing about AJ's hands is if you look back at it, it isn't over the course of the entire year. For some reason he'll have one really bad game some seasons. Not going to bother to look it up but 2-3 years ago for instance he had 7 drops in a season and 5 of them came in one game against the Tacks. If you aren't on one of those days his hands are fantastic. I guess it falls into the everyone has a bad day category.

But overall I think we are in agreement. Year to year there are people who compare to AJ. I don't think it is homerism at all though to say AJ is on a consistent basis the best WR in the NFL at this time and most likely will be the first Texan Hall of Famer.

But again, damn I have never seen a WR truck people like that clip above.

Goatcheese
07-25-2011, 11:06 AM
These stats don't prove anything other than the fact that you can cherry pick some stats. I could do the same for Matt Ryan, but it would be a waste of time.

Those are the 3 where there are big differences but Schaub leads Ryan in almost every QB statistic.

Stats----------Schaub-----Ryan
Completion %----63.6------62.5
Yards----------4,370------3,705
Yards/attempt---7.6-------6.5
Touchdown--------24-------28
INT--------------12-------9
First down %-----38.7%----34.9%
20+--------------59-------32
40+--------------9--------6
QB rating-------92.0------91.0

Even on a slightly down year for Schaub with his #1 target playing on one foot and his go to TE recovering from a season ending injury Schaub is ahead in all but two catagories.

Ryan isn't bad, but he isn't a game changer either. Schaub is a QB that can completely take over a game and dominate.

Texecutioner
07-25-2011, 11:15 AM
Those are the 3 where there are big differences but Schaub leads Ryan in almost every QB statistic.

Stats----------Schaub-----Ryan
Completion %----63.6------62.5
Yards----------4,370------3,705
Yards/attempt---7.6-------6.5
Touchdown--------24-------28
INT--------------12-------9
First down %-----38.7%----34.9%
20+--------------59-------32
40+--------------9--------6
QB rating-------92.0------91.0

Even on a slightly down year for Schaub with his #1 target playing on one foot and his go to TE recovering from a season ending injury Schaub is ahead in all but two catagories.

Ryan isn't bad, but he isn't a game changer either. Schaub is a QB that can completely take over a game and dominate.

You just made my point for me with these stats. They're very close in almost all categories and Ryan is the younger QB who was only in his 3rd season. And you say 2 categories, what about the top category which is wins?? Schaub has yet to sniff the playoffs as a starter, and Matt Ryan went to a blackhole of a team just like Schaub did and Ryan led a terrible team to the post season in his first season as a rookie. He led his team to the best record in the NFC last season. I'm sorry, but those are accomplishments that out due stats like yards any day of the week.

You can call Schaub a guy that dominates or takes over games, but Schaub hasn't dominated anything other than being a 2nd half stat guy who comes real close to making come backs but usually falters or finds his team in situations where they can't quite do enough. Ryan has flourished in those situations and he did several times as a rookie which is exactly why he got as much praise as he did as a rookie. It wasn't just because his team was winning games that year. It was because he had like 3 or 4 come from behind victories that season that were very impressive for any QB, but especially a rookie.

The fact is that Ryan and Schaub are very close in how they have been able to perform, but Ryan has had more success when it counts. They're very close to one another currently. For you or anyone else who is a Texans fan to act like Schuab is way better hands down without any room for argument is nothing short of a homer's argument for the hometown guy.

Rey
07-25-2011, 11:16 AM
Those are the 3 where there are big differences but Schaub leads Ryan in almost every QB statistic.

Stats----------Schaub-----Ryan
Completion %----63.6------62.5
Yards----------4,370------3,705
Yards/attempt---7.6-------6.5
Touchdown--------24-------28
INT--------------12-------9
First down %-----38.7%----34.9%
20+--------------59-------32
40+--------------9--------6
QB rating-------92.0------91.0

Even on a slightly down year for Schaub with his #1 target playing on one foot and his go to TE recovering from a season ending injury Schaub is ahead in all but two catagories.

Ryan isn't bad, but he isn't a game changer either. Schaub is a QB that can completely take over a game and dominate.

They are about the same biggest difference is attempts if I recall correctly.

I think schaub is among the league leaders in attempts year in and years out.

Goatcheese
07-25-2011, 11:26 AM
You just made my point for me with these stats. They're very close in almost all categories and Ryan is the younger QB who was only in his 3rd season. And you say 2 categories, what about the top category which is wins?? Schaub has yet to sniff the playoffs as a starter, and Matt Ryan went to a blackhole of a team just like Schaub did and Ryan led a terrible team to the post season in his first season as a rookie. He led his team to the best record in the NFC last season. I'm sorry, but those are accomplishments that out due stats like yards any day of the week.

You can call Schaub a guy that dominates or takes over games, but Schaub hasn't dominated anything other than being a 2nd half stat guy who comes real close to making come backs but usually falters or finds his team in situations where they can't quite do enough. Ryan has flourished in those situations and he did several times as a rookie which is exactly why he got as much praise as he did as a rookie. It wasn't just because his team was winning games that year. It was because he had like 3 or 4 come from behind victories that season that were very impressive for any QB, but especially a rookie.

The fact is that Ryan and Schaub are very close in how they have been able to perform, but Ryan has had more success when it counts. They're very close to one another currently. For you or anyone else who is a Texans fan to act like Schuab is way better hands down without any room for argument is nothing short of a homer's argument for the hometown guy.

I keep forgetting that QBs also play all 11 spots on defense. Stupid me. :rolleyes:

They are about the same biggest difference is attempts if I recall correctly.

I think schaub is among the league leaders in attempts year in and years out.

Schaub threw 574 times to Ryan's 571.

Texecutioner
07-25-2011, 11:42 AM
I keep forgetting that QBs also play all 11 spots on defense. Stupid me. :rolleyes:

Well sorry, but you just posted stats and for some reason you didn't seem to notice how similar they were. You seem to perfectly be comfortable in discounting wins for some reason as if the Falcons only won games because of their defense when they had a QB that threw for almost 4,000 yards and 28 TD's. Sorry, I was unaware that the Falcons all of a sudden became the 2001 Ravens on defense last year and won all their games with nothing but defense. Somehow I missed that when Ryan and Roddy White were connecting all season long with a great running game to go with it.

All you've done is repped your guy who plays for Houston and put out an argument that lacked substance. :homer:

infantrycak
07-25-2011, 12:01 PM
Schaub has yet to sniff the playoffs as a starter, and Matt Ryan went to a blackhole of a team just like Schaub did and Ryan led a terrible team to the post season in his first season as a rookie.

Already said up thread I think both are very good and it is basically a pick who you like but this is an overstatement to me. The Falcons were artificially down below their overall talent level due to the arrest of Vick (and trade of Schaub) and the obvious disinterest of their coach who couldn't even make it through one season before resigning. Plus much of the turn around has to be credited to acquiring Michael Turner who only had 1699 yards rushing and 17 TD's. Ascribing wins and losses to one player is generally folly.

Goatcheese
07-25-2011, 12:12 PM
Well sorry, but you just posted stats and for some reason you didn't seem to notice how similar they were. You seem to perfectly be comfortable in discounting wins for some reason as if the Falcons only won games because of their defense when they had a QB that threw for almost 4,000 yards and 28 TD's. Sorry, I was unaware that the Falcons all of a sudden became the 2001 Ravens on defense last year and won all their games with nothing but defense. Somehow I missed that when Ryan and Roddy White were connecting all season long with a great running game to go with it.

All you've done is repped your guy who plays for Houston and put out an argument that lacked substance. :homer:

I did note that they were similar in the other catagories when I said the first 3 stats I posted were the ones where there was a big difference. I also noted that while closer Schaub came out ahead in just about all of them.

The Texans had the 4th best passing offense and the 30th worst overall defense. The Falcons had the 15th best passing offense and the 16th best overall defense. It's clear for anyone to see that having an absolute ****e defense is why the Texans have struggled to put together wins. A QB can only control one thing and that is his own play on the field. Schaub has an edge over Ryan in almost every QB performance metric and big leads in several key areas.

Ryan is a game manager who doesn't make a lot of mistakes but also passes up a lot of chances that are high reward. Maybe he will learn to trust himself as he developes but right now he's just not a playmaker or a game changer.

I will take a playmaker like Schaub over him any day. If I'm behind by two scores with minutes to go Ryan is near the bottom of my list among quality QBs who I would want. Schaub is only behind the elite guys like Manning, Brees, Rivers, Brady and Rodgers.

Allstar
07-25-2011, 01:47 PM
You can look at all the stats you want, including Matt Ryan's 0-2 playoff record with an incredible 385 combined yards, 3 TDs and 4 INTs, but What anyone should do is watch the damn games. It is then where you automatically notice Matt Ryan is nothing special.

Texecutioner
07-25-2011, 03:28 PM
I did note that they were similar in the other catagories when I said the first 3 stats I posted were the ones where there was a big difference. I also noted that while closer Schaub came out ahead in just about all of them.

The Texans had the 4th best passing offense and the 30th worst overall defense. The Falcons had the 15th best passing offense and the 16th best overall defense. It's clear for anyone to see that having an absolute ****e defense is why the Texans have struggled to put together wins. A QB can only control one thing and that is his own play on the field. Schaub has an edge over Ryan in almost every QB performance metric and big leads in several key areas.

No he doesn't. You just posted the stats that you cherry picked. Don't you remember. Hell, I don't even have to look at the stats on this subject, because I already know that stats are very similar. In some of the most important stats which are TD"s and INT"s, you somehow want to downplay. Schaub plays in an offense that passes more because they had to pass more from being behind. And to say that the Texans didn't put wins together more being all because of the defense is a silly notion as well when the offense played horribly in a ton of games in the first half. Playing from behind in almost every game in the 2nd half because you're offense gave up bad field position and couldn't move the ball is not playing consistently on offense. The Texans were never consistent on offense.

Ryan is a game manager who doesn't make a lot of mistakes but also passes up a lot of chances that are high reward. Maybe he will learn to trust himself as he developes but right now he's just not a playmaker or a game changer.

Sorry, but you're shooting blanks by calling a guy a game manager who threw for almost 4,000 yards and 28 TD's. By your definition almost every QB in the league was a game manager other than about 4 or 5 other QB's. Get back to me when you watch Matt Ryan or understand stats better, because a guy who throws for those kinds of statistics is not a game manager.

I will take a playmaker like Schaub over him any day. If I'm behind by two scores with minutes to go Ryan is near the bottom of my list among quality QBs who I would want. Schaub is only behind the elite guys like Manning, Brees, Rivers, Brady and Rodgers.

Well, Ryan has been a lot better in the clutch so I'll take Ryan. And I'd gladly take Big Ben over Matt Schaub any day of the week as well.

Texecutioner
07-25-2011, 03:32 PM
You can look at all the stats you want, including Matt Ryan's 0-2 playoff record with an incredible 385 combined yards, 3 TDs and 4 INTs, but What anyone should do is watch the damn games. It is then where you automatically notice Matt Ryan is nothing special.

Are you honestly trying to use two playoff games where his team lost as evidence here when schaub still hasn't even been to a playoff game? Go check Manning's first few playoff games and see how well that works. You're trying to discredit someone that has accomplished more and using games that Matt hasn't even been able to lead his team to. I don't need a QB that is a stat god, and Matt Ryan is already getting great stats and winning games. Montana and Elway were never stat gods when they played. They knew how to win and could play well at the end of games in the clutch. They were consistent for 4 quarters as well which is something Matt Scahub has struggled with.

Dutchrudder
07-25-2011, 03:39 PM
More fun stats from 2010 for comparison:

Schaub - Sacked 32 times for a loss of 226 yards
- Fumbled 9 times, 3 fumbles lost
- 22 rushes for 28 yards

Ryan - Sacked 23 time for a loss of 158 yards
- Fumbled 4 times, 3 fumbles lost
- 46 rushes for 122 yards

Texecutioner
07-25-2011, 03:53 PM
More fun stats from 2010 for comparison:

Schaub - Sacked 32 times for a loss of 226 yards
- Fumbled 9 times, 3 fumbles lost
- 22 rushes for 28 yards

Ryan - Sacked 23 time for a loss of 158 yards
- Fumbled 4 times, 3 fumbles lost
- 46 rushes for 122 yards

Other than Icak in this discussion, I don't really think the people that are acting like Schaub is way better even care about the stats unless they are stats that favor Schaub. Last year in the off season I had several folks making these very same types of arguments for Matt Schaub against Aaron Rodgers saying how Matt Schaub was better and all this stuff. They're going to argue for the guy who plays for the Texans no matter what unless it's a guy who already won a SB or Brady and Manning.

Goatcheese
07-25-2011, 03:57 PM
I "cherry picked" the stats where there was a significant difference.

Matt Schaub threw exactly 3 more passes than Matt Ryan. I don't know where you get that we threw a lot more. :rolleyes:

I don't downplay the TDs, but the lower number of INTs are because Ryan is a game manager who does not take chances.

So the defense was among the worst in league history but the #2 offense in the NFL is why we lost? Put the crack pipe down.

I call Matt Ryan a Game Manager because he is not a Game Breaker. 6.5 yards/attempt is flat out DAVID FREAKING CARR territory. 3,700 yards is AVERAGE for a QB who starts 16 games in the modern NFL. You keep saying "almost 4,000" like it's something special. No, 3,700 yards is not special in the pass happy 21st century NFL. Ryan was 15th in yards per game. FIFTEENTH. ONE FIVE. AVERAGE.

And Montana wasn't a stat god? 1989 70.1% completions, 270 yards/game, 26 TD, 8 INT, 9.1 YPA , 112.4 QB rating aren't great stats? He put those up against defenses that weren't handicapped by offense friendly rules.

Texecutioner
07-25-2011, 04:12 PM
I "cherry picked" the stats where there was a significant difference.

And you still didn't prove your point with those stats. The most important ones in my book were in Matt's favor.

Matt Schaub threw exactly 3 more passes than Matt Ryan. I don't know where you get that we threw a lot more. :rolleyes:

Then how in the hell is he a game manager to you?? Do you not notice how many times you contradict yourself?? If the Texans were one of the most pass happy offenses in the league, but Matt threw right around the same number off passes, UUUUUMMM that shows that he had to throw the ball around just as much. Game managers are guys that play for teams where they barely throw the ball around and hand the ball off all of the time like what Kerry Collins was in Tennessee or what Brad Johnson was for the Bucs when they won the SB.

I don't downplay the TDs, but the lower number of INTs are because Ryan is a game manager who does not take chances.

Lol!! Is that going to be all you keep saying? You just said yourself that he had to throw the ball just as much, so how is he taking less chances?? DO you hear what you're saying? No, that means he was more careful and made better decisions as a passer and didn't commit as many TO's. And even if Matt threw way less passes, that doesn't mean he threw less picks just because of that either. You seem to think that throwing bombs all day are what make a guy the best QB. I've got news for you. It's not.

So the defense was among the worst in league history but the #2 offense in the NFL is why we lost? Put the crack pipe down.

Show me where the Texans were the #2 scoring offense per game. That is the only stat that matters when comparing the best offenses in the league. Points win games. Not yards.

I call Matt Ryan a Game Manager because he is not a Game Breaker. 6.5 yards/attempt is flat out DAVID FREAKING CARR territory. 3,700 yards is AVERAGE for a QB who starts 16 games in the modern NFL. You keep saying "almost 4,000" like it's something special. No, 3,700 yards is not special in the pass happy 21st century NFL. Ryan was 15th in yards per game. FIFTEENTH. ONE FIVE. AVERAGE.

3,700 yards is damn good in any season for a QB. It's not elite as far as stats go, but it was okay for Elway, Montana, and Tom Brady when they were having great seasons. If you can put up yards like that and lead your team to 13 wins, you're out of your mind if you're going to say that a QB who did that didn't have a very good season.

And Montana wasn't a stat god? 1989 70.1% completions, 270 yards/game, 26 TD, 8 INT, 9.1 YPA , 112.4 QB rating aren't great stats? He put those up against defenses that weren't handicapped by offense friendly rules.

He wasn't a stat god with yards and TD passes year to year. He always threw a very low # of INT's and made very little mistakes. Montana never tried to do much and that's what made him great. He was the king of poise and being calm. He was Joe Cool.

And are you suggesting that Ryan and Schaub aren't playing against great defenses none the less? We've seen some of the greatest defenses of all time just in the last ten years in the Ravens, Steelers, and the Bucs.

EllisUnit
07-25-2011, 04:18 PM
Whenever our running game SUCKED in 2009 teams knew we were gonna throw, and YET he still lead the league in passing yards. So even with teams knowing what was coming he still leads the league in passing. Seriously someone needs to take off their Matt Ryan underwear and breathe a little, theyre to tight and cutting off circulation. :kitten:

Texecutioner
07-25-2011, 04:35 PM
Whenever our running game SUCKED in 2009 teams knew we were gonna throw, and YET he still lead the league in passing yards. So even with teams knowing what was coming he still leads the league in passing. Seriously someone needs to take off their Matt Ryan underwear and breathe a little, theyre to tight and cutting off circulation. :kitten:

Yeah, I'd rather debate with facts and logic than start a thread about how the entire forum is trash because people don't agree with me. That usually comes off better.

EllisUnit
07-25-2011, 05:39 PM
Yeah, I'd rather debate with facts and logic than start a thread about how the entire forum is trash because people don't agree with me. That usually comes off better.

i stated a fact. Though we had one of the worst running games in the NFL in 2009, Matt Schaub still finished first in passing yards. So even though teams knew we were throwing the ball they couldnt stop us/schaub. That is a fact.

Texecutioner
07-25-2011, 05:47 PM
i stated a fact. Though we had one of the worst running games in the NFL in 2009, Matt Schaub still finished first in passing yards. So even though teams knew we were throwing the ball they couldnt stop us/schaub. That is a fact.

I'm sorry, but I just don't care to engage with you on this. This doesn't feel like an objective conversation we're having here and you've began to get childish.

EllisUnit
07-25-2011, 05:52 PM
I'm sorry, but I just don't care to engage with you on this. This doesn't feel like an objective conversation we're having here and you've began to get childish.

I'm sorry i brought some MORE reality into the thread for you. I will take my childish ass else where. Although neither have won even 1 play-off game so who really cares whos better, we dont play to MAKE the play-offs we play to win the Superbowl. So who cares, we'll all see in time.

Rey
07-25-2011, 06:24 PM
Schaub threw 574 times to Ryan's 571.

not sure how that changes my comments.

Which is that year in and year out Matt is among the leaders in pass attempts.

Is Ryan always that close to him? I dunno

infantrycak
07-25-2011, 06:32 PM
not sure how that changes my comments.

Which is that year in and year out Matt is among the leaders in pass attempts.

Is Ryan always that close to him? I dunno

Maybe, just maybe, folks should start using last names in this thread as the debate is between two Matt's.

Texecutioner
07-25-2011, 06:35 PM
not sure how that changes my comments.

Which is that year in and year out Matt is among the leaders in pass attempts.

Is Ryan always that close to him? I dunno

The year prior to that Ryan threw for only 451 times to Schaub's 583 attempts. However Ryan was hurt and played two less games, but that was still a pretty significant difference. Last season they seemed to let Ryan throw the ball a lot more since it was his 3rd year when most QB's and WR's get real comfortable in the NFL. The Texans throw a lot in general because Kubiak likes to pass and because we've got pretty good weapons in the passing game. ATL had Michael Turner running the ball a lot as well before last season.