PDA

View Full Version : Rose Bowl TCU Wisc and JJ Watt


gafftop
07-16-2011, 05:45 PM
They are replaying game NOW. 2nd time to watch. Not very impressed with JJ Watt. Looks SLOW. Sorry to bring this up. Want an opinion from somebody else.

axisv
07-16-2011, 08:07 PM
That's exactly what I thought too. I want to believe he will be great but NFL speed might make him look average at best. We will see.

dinkatoid
07-16-2011, 09:53 PM
Let me start this off by saying I did not actually see this game, but there is one small thing I wanted to point out. If I recall correctly, at Wisc he played a 4-3 end. One of the reasons they wanted him moved to a 3-4, where he seemed better suited to play because of his size and lack of speed. I have also read about him moving inside on passing downs, making him effectively a 4-3 DT at times. His speed should be file for that IMO.

For what it is worth, according to this site (I an not verify how accurate this is, it is just what came up on google): http://40-yard-dash-times.com/jj-watt-40-yard-dash-time.html

40 Yard Dash Times:

JJ Watt - 4.84
Nick Fairley (who is comparable in size and weight) - 4.87
Steven Paea - 4.88
Ndamukong Suh - 4.98

Granted, Paea and Suh are about 15-20 lbs heavier, and a few inches shorter.

Dutchrudder
07-16-2011, 10:02 PM
I just hope he turns into a Haoli Ngata. Maybe not his rookie year, but by year 4.

axisv
07-16-2011, 10:08 PM
The ten yard split comparison might be more appropriate for a D-lineman. I really want this guy to be special but being a Texans fan I am somewhat jaded when it comes to the defensive side of the ball. Let's get this darn lockout over and get back to unrealistic preseason expectations!

badboy
07-16-2011, 10:08 PM
I expect the linemen to immobilize the Oline & LBs and safeties to disrupt QB. JJ will be just fine.

IDEXAN
07-17-2011, 09:05 AM
I heard this guy talking on a podcast for one of the Houston-area radio stations the other day and he's such an intelligent, articulate, thoughtful young man who will be great in community affairs in Houston, but all of that gives me pause because one wonders if that's why the Texans drafted him ?
You know, it sounds like the kind of guy Bob McNair would fall in love with -
class act, superior character guy who's only average on the gridiron, and you just have to do better than that with the 11th overall in the NFL Draft ?
Also, some really good OLineman have come out of the Big 10 in recent years, but I'd much rather look to the SEC for a top DLineman, generally speaking.

m5kwatts
07-17-2011, 09:41 AM
JJ's game aint speed people. He's all about his heavy hands and strength. Jim Tressel said he thought JJ had the strongest hands he'd ever seen on tape.

The Texans need Watt to hold the point of attack on the strong side of the defense. He's playing LDE (5-tech) and will have Brooks Reed/Connor Barwin rushing free a lot of the time right off of him. It'll be JJ's job to hold the right tackle in check to free up our SAM OLB. This is totally NOT what he did at Wisconsin. JJ was a projection pick - the Texans are projecting/assuming JJ can handle a more appropriate role for his skill set, which is the 5 tech.

We need a guy like JJ vs. the Jags/Titans/Ravens/Steelers/Pats of the world who grind it out running the ball all game off right tackle. JJ's motor (which the Texans didn't have any "motor" players on defense before the 2012 draft, this is obvious) will be a huge asset late in games when teams want to slug the Texans in the mouth.

Watch JJ at the end of games. He's still going full-boar and he doesn't lose strength even though you know he's tired as a dog.

Also, an earlier poster was correct in saying his speed will show up the farther inside he goes. He and Antonio will be inside on 3rd down.

So you're curious to see how JJ plays vs. a center/guard? Watch the last drive of the Ohio State game, specifically the last 2 plays. He swims past the center Mike Brewster before the center can even get out of his stance and burns past him untouched, hits the QB. The next snap? JJ bursts past him even faster and more untouched, hits the QB, Wisconsin wins. By the way, Mike Brewster is the best center in college football and will be a 1st round pick in 2012.

badboy
07-17-2011, 09:48 AM
JJ's game aint speed people. He's all about his heavy hands and strength. Jim Tressel said he thought JJ had the strongest hands he'd ever seen on tape.

The Texans need Watt to hold the point of attack on the strong side of the defense. He's playing LDE (5-tech) and will have Brooks Reed/Connor Barwin rushing free a lot of the time right off of him. It'll be JJ's job to hold the right tackle in check to free up our SAM OLB. This is totally NOT what he did at Wisconsin. JJ was a projection pick - the Texans are projecting/assuming JJ can handle a more appropriate role for his skill set, which is the 5 tech.

We need a guy like JJ vs. the Jags/Titans/Ravens/Steelers/Pats of the world who grind it out running the ball all game off right tackle. JJ's motor (which the Texans didn't have any "motor" players on defense before the 2012 draft, this is obvious) will be a huge asset late in games when teams want to slug the Texans in the mouth.

Watch JJ at the end of games. He's still going full-boar and he doesn't lose strength even though you know he's tired as a dog.

Also, an earlier poster was correct in saying his speed will show up the farther inside he goes. He and Antonio will be inside on 3rd down.

So you're curious to see how JJ plays vs. a center/guard? Watch the last drive of the Ohio State game, specifically the last 2 plays. He swims past the center Mike Brewster before the center can even get out of his stance and burns past him untouched, hits the QB. The next snap? JJ bursts past him even faster and more untouched, hits the QB, Wisconsin wins. By the way, Mike Brewster is the best center in college football will be a 1st round pick in 2012.What I was trying to say but you worded much, much better!

c10x
07-17-2011, 12:34 PM
If you watch the games during the season, where teams didn't have 2 months to game plan against him, Watt was absolutely dominant. Like someone already posted, watch the Ohio State game. He just took that game over and closed it out. It was very impressive to watch.

Allstar
07-17-2011, 02:04 PM
I just hope he turns into a Haoli Ngata. Maybe not his rookie year, but by year 4.

They play completely different positions. Completely.

76Texan
07-17-2011, 05:19 PM
Here are some of my observations of the Rose Bowl:

1. It was said that the field condition is not very good.
That ought to be more difficult fr big men.

2. TCU only ran 49 offensive plays.

3. Watts played as either a 4-3 DE or a stand up OLB (on a 4-man front).
These won't be his main positions. He's not fast and quick like Freeney or Mario to be very effective in the NFL on the edge; that's whythey pegged him as a 3-4 DE.

4. TCU went mostly with the short and quick passing game.
5 times Watt got in the backfield, but the pass was already gone.
One one long pass play, they double-teamed him. On another long pass attempt, he beat the LT, but was held (no holding call, however).

5. He caused 2 false starts; he forced a hold by an O-lineman.
He deflected a pass. He made 2 tackles and one assist in the run game, all near the LOS.
TCU basically tried to avoid him or double-team in the run game, or forced him to make a decision on the zone read or option run.
(He's not going to have to worry about that as a 3-4 DE.)

6. The quickness you want to see can be found on the one option run by TCU, where Watts held off Dalton long enough, forcing him to make the pitch, and was still able to make the tackle on the RB. That's pretty quick for me.

.......
Obviously, he still needs to work on his game; but there were enough in his plays at the collegiate level (at 3-4 DE and occasionally at NT) to think that he can be at least a decent NFL player in a couple of years.

m5kwatts
07-17-2011, 07:38 PM
Here are some of my observations of the Rose Bowl:

1. It was said that the field condition is not very good.
That ought to be more difficult fr big men.

2. TCU only ran 49 offensive plays.

3. Watts played as either a 4-3 DE or a stand up OLB (on a 4-man front).
These won't be his main positions. He's not fast and quick like Freeney or Mario to be very effective in the NFL on the edge; that's whythey pegged him as a 3-4 DE.

4. TCU went mostly with the short and quick passing game.
5 times Watt got in the backfield, but the pass was already gone.
One one long pass play, they double-teamed him. On another long pass attempt, he beat the LT, but was held (no holding call, however).

5. He caused 2 false starts; he forced a hold by an O-lineman.
He deflected a pass. He made 2 tackles and one assist in the run game, all near the LOS.
TCU basically tried to avoid him or double-team in the run game, or forced him to make a decision on the zone read or option run.
(He's not going to have to worry about that as a 3-4 DE.)

6. The quickness you want to see can be found on the one option run by TCU, where Watts held off Dalton long enough, forcing him to make the pitch, and was still able to make the tackle on the RB. That's pretty quick for me.

.......
Obviously, he still needs to work on his game; but there were enough in his plays at the collegiate level (at 3-4 DE and occasionally at NT) to think that he can be at least a decent NFL player in a couple of years.

All good points.

Watt had tons of holding calls go uncalled against him all last year too. In the Iowa game alone I think I counted 7 or 8. This gives me reason to believe he'll be an even better NFL player where holding is called much more strictly.

Also I think it's worth noting that the Wisconsin defensive line is pretty bad outside of Watt. I've watched a lot of Wisconsin since the Watt pick and he's the only dude in the backfield ever on their line. Even more reason to believe he'll be better in the NFL where he'll get more one on one matchups.

thunderkyss
07-17-2011, 09:31 PM
JJ's game aint speed people. He's all about his heavy hands and strength. Jim Tressel said he thought JJ had the strongest hands he'd ever seen on tape.

The Texans need Watt to hold the point of attack on the strong side of the defense. He's playing LDE (5-tech) and will have Brooks Reed/Connor Barwin rushing free a lot of the time right off of him. It'll be JJ's job to hold the right tackle in check to free up our SAM OLB. This is totally NOT what he did at Wisconsin. JJ was a projection pick - the Texans are projecting/assuming JJ can handle a more appropriate role for his skill set, which is the 5 tech.

We need a guy like JJ vs. the Jags/Titans/Ravens/Steelers/Pats of the world who grind it out running the ball all game off right tackle. JJ's motor (which the Texans didn't have any "motor" players on defense before the 2012 draft, this is obvious) will be a huge asset late in games when teams want to slug the Texans in the mouth.



The problem with the Texans' run defense was not the 5 tech not being able to hold the point of attack. Mario did as fine a job as anyone in the league. The problem was usually the other sided... that guy that everybody loves... he's the one they ran past. The guy is very good at disrupting the backfield on passing downs, but on run downs he is a liability on the backside.

I would concede your points, if we were going to play JJ Watt & Mario at DE in the 3-4. We'd probably have the best run defense in the league, they will not get outside.

But all this talk about Antonio as the other end...... puh lease.

Granted, Mario will have backside contain so maybe it's the same thing. We'll see.

gafftop
07-17-2011, 10:17 PM
Can't wait for season to start and see this new defense. Just hoping for the best.

Allstar
07-17-2011, 11:10 PM
Can't wait for season to start and see this new defense. Just hoping for the best.

Well the good news is that the only way to go is up.

76Texan
07-17-2011, 11:30 PM
All good points.

Watt had tons of holding calls go uncalled against him all last year too. In the Iowa game alone I think I counted 7 or 8. This gives me reason to believe he'll be an even better NFL player where holding is called much more strictly.

Also I think it's worth noting that the Wisconsin defensive line is pretty bad outside of Watt. I've watched a lot of Wisconsin since the Watt pick and he's the only dude in the backfield ever on their line. Even more reason to believe he'll be better in the NFL where he'll get more one on one matchups.

I'm also quite high on Watts.
However, I'm afraid he might not get the calls as a rookie.
Also, the good O-linemen in the NFl have a lot of tricks up their sleeves.
They know how to keep their hands/arms inside the pad in order to avoid the holding calls.
How soon can Watts figure it out, we can't tell.

In regards to TK's comment on Antonio Smith, I do feel the same.
It was quite likely that Smith was asked to just go ahead and penetrate.
Sometimes, he would get hooked to the inside;
at other times, he didn't stay home on the cut back.
Playing him at 3-4 DE will help.

Both Smith and Watts can penetrate.
IMHO, I think they can help the NT that way.
It should also make it more difficult for the guards to release to the second level (or less effective).

I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that they all can stay healthy.

thunderkyss
07-18-2011, 02:57 AM
Trust in Wade, this ain't his first rodeo.

m5kwatts
07-18-2011, 03:20 AM
The problem with the Texans' run defense was not the 5 tech not being able to hold the point of attack. Mario did as fine a job as anyone in the league. The problem was usually the other sided... that guy that everybody loves... he's the one they ran past. The guy is very good at disrupting the backfield on passing downs, but on run downs he is a liability on the backside.

I would concede your points, if we were going to play JJ Watt & Mario at DE in the 3-4. We'd probably have the best run defense in the league, they will not get outside.

But all this talk about Antonio as the other end...... puh lease.

Granted, Mario will have backside contain so maybe it's the same thing. We'll see.

From what I saw on all the Reggie Herring videos on HT.com, it looks like Antonio will be a full-time 3-tech now, even in their 3-4 sets (or 5-2 as they sometimes call it). That suits him best and really he's at his best as a pass rusher when he's rushing the outside shoulder of the guard. I saw the same problems on weak side contains that you did, but I think that's a moot point now with the scheme switch.

HuttoKarl
07-19-2011, 01:05 AM
From everything I've read on the guy, he's a good person and I think good things will happen for him as a result. It helps that he's beastly big and strong and never quits. I really want to see him succeed, not just because I'd like our team to not suck, but because I like seeing good things happen for good people.