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badboy
07-16-2011, 03:18 PM
Wade Phillips turns defense as around as he has other teams and Gary Kubiak is able to focus on the offense and do his thing. Few will disagree that Kubes is an offensive guru & the O has looked good last few years and despite losing LT Duane Brown for several games, OD coming off injury and JJ missing some games due to injury in 2010. JJ may not return but the others should have better 2011 & don't forget how good Joel Dreesen looked. I'm thinking O will be even better now that Kubes knows what he has in Foster & that Arian can catch the ball. Only ifI see is if Tater Salad is all that he can be. This big fast RB could give us a 1-2-3 punch like no other team has had in my memory.

We go 12-4 and Gary could be coach of the year. For me this remains Kubiak final shot at doing what he was hired to do. Build a perennial play off machine.

EllisUnit
07-16-2011, 03:21 PM
Wade Phillips turns defense as around as he has other teams and Gary Kubiak is able to focus on the offense and do his thing. Few will disagree that Kubes is an offensive guru & the O has looked good last few years and despite losing LT Duane Brown for several games, OD coming off injury and JJ missing some games due to injury in 2010. JJ may not return but the others should have better 2011 & don't forget how good Joel Dreesen looked. I'm thinking O will be even better now that Kubes knows what he has in Foster & that Arian can catch the ball. Only ifI see is if Tater Salad is all that he can be. This big fast RB could give us a 1-2-3 punch like no other team has had in my memory.

We go 12-4 and Gary could be coach of the year. For me this remains Kubiak final shot at doing what he was hired to do. Build a perennial play off machine.

Agree. I do believe now that kubiak has someone who actually knows how to run a defense we will be a big time contender. BUT if we do turn it around and make the play-offs and possible more i think Wade is the man you can think for that.

Allstar
07-16-2011, 03:24 PM
Alright we're getting ahead of ourselves now.

EllisUnit
07-16-2011, 03:26 PM
Alright we're getting ahead of ourselves now.

But dont we every season :hurrah:

redwhiteANDblue
07-16-2011, 03:28 PM
Alright we're getting ahead of ourselves now.

this

gary
07-16-2011, 03:29 PM
My marijuana is not as good stuff as you guys but this should be a do or die year for Kubiak it has to be.

badboy
07-16-2011, 03:31 PM
maybe but I also get criticised for my early mocks of draft. Season will be starting soon so why not make predictions?

jshabang
07-16-2011, 03:45 PM
O_o

Corrosion
07-16-2011, 03:52 PM
maybe but I also get criticised for my early mocks of draft. Season will be starting soon so why not make predictions?

19-0 :trophy:

thunderkyss
07-16-2011, 04:07 PM
We go 12-4 and Gary could be coach of the year. For me this remains Kubiak final shot at doing what he was hired to do. Build a perennial play off machine.

What made Denver's offense exciting to watch, was their "go for the throat" attitude. Just when the other team thought they could relax, it's the first play of the game, Denver had a big lead & was going to run the clock out..... Bam, Denver would kick them in the gnads with a big play. Either break a big run off the cut-back lane, or give them the rope-a-dope with the play action pass.

Kubiak's too damned conservative. & personally I think conservative is the wrong attitude for a young team of Alpha-Males.

& so is Wade.

DocBar
07-16-2011, 04:21 PM
What made Denver's offense exciting to watch, was their "go for the throat" attitude. Just when the other team thought they could relax, it's the first play of the game, Denver had a big lead & was going to run the clock out..... Bam, Denver would kick them in the gnads with a big play. Either break a big run off the cut-back lane, or give them the rope-a-dope with the play action pass.

Kubiak's too damned conservative. & personally I think conservative is the wrong attitude for a young team of Alpha-Males.

& so is Wade.TK, I'm going to McDonald's and getting you a damned Happy Meal. You need to listen to the "Happy,Happy,Joy,Joy" song, man.

steelbtexan
07-16-2011, 04:28 PM
Is a UFL team hiring Gary?

TexansBlood
07-16-2011, 04:41 PM
Hype!!!

Clamp
07-16-2011, 04:48 PM
If the Defense has a turnaround and performs well but we still miss the playoffs and Kubiak gets the boot, is Wade just gonna be moved up into the Head Coaching spot? I really hope not bc while he is a great coordinator, i think its become pretty clear that he isnt any better of a Head Coach than Kubiak. We will just end up making excuses for him based in stats for another 3 years or so. If Kubes goes then we HAVE to get a person for outside the organization. But when he was hired everyone was saying that he was an insurance policy in case Kubes had to go.

I realize this is the complete opposite as the original point of the thread but I just wanted yalls thoughts on Wades future here.

KA4Texan
07-16-2011, 05:08 PM
What made Denver's offense exciting to watch, was their "go for the throat" attitude. Just when the other team thought they could relax, it's the first play of the game, Denver had a big lead & was going to run the clock out..... Bam, Denver would kick them in the gnads with a big play. Either break a big run off the cut-back lane, or give them the rope-a-dope with the play action pass.

Kubiak's too damned conservative. & personally I think conservative is the wrong attitude for a young team of Alpha-Males.

& so is Wade.

This....... part of the reason I loved watching the Saints SB win, I loved the on-side...... NOT because it worked (that it worked only proves it was the right call) but because it took HUGE balls to call that. Knew they had to do something so made the call to give his guys the chance.

Do I want someone wreck less...... NO! but this league is not won by the faint of heart (usually), IF the Texans were at the SB and needing an equally gutsy call...... I think we would ride the conservative coat tails all the way to a loss or an ALMOST come from behind only to leave with a "well at least we were there" consolation.

I do think they will be much improved, dont get me wrong, but COTY? COTY!?!

If the Defense has a turnaround and performs well but we still miss the playoffs and Kubiak gets the boot, is Wade just gonna be moved up into the Head Coaching spot? I really hope not bc while he is a great coordinator, i think its become pretty clear that he isnt any better of a Head Coach than Kubiak. We will just end up making excuses for him based in stats for another 3 years or so. If Kubes goes then we HAVE to get a person for outside the organization. But when he was hired everyone was saying that he was an insurance policy in case Kubes had to go.

I realize this is the complete opposite as the original point of the thread but I just wanted yalls thoughts on Wades future here.

I said it before in another thread, I fear Wade being moved to HC would be a can of worms best left unopened (emotional ties). He would be a slight upgrade from GK but...... IF the slot is opened, why settle for a slight upgrade and more years of excuses when you have the opportunity to chase great?

Clamp
07-16-2011, 05:35 PM
I said it before in another thread, I fear Wade being moved to HC would be a can of worms best left unopened (emotional ties). He would be a slight upgrade from GK but...... IF the slot is opened, why settle for a slight upgrade and more years of excuses when you have the opportunity to chase great?

I agree. Wade has shown he is competent, be we need more. We need someone who will bring a little more toughness to the team. Mental and physical toughness. I'm tired of losing games bc we couldnt close even though we had the lead.

badboy
07-16-2011, 08:01 PM
If the Defense has a turnaround and performs well but we still miss the playoffs and Kubiak gets the boot, is Wade just gonna be moved up into the Head Coaching spot? I really hope not bc while he is a great coordinator, i think its become pretty clear that he isnt any better of a Head Coach than Kubiak. We will just end up making excuses for him based in stats for another 3 years or so. If Kubes goes then we HAVE to get a person for outside the organization. But when he was hired everyone was saying that he was an insurance policy in case Kubes had to go.

I realize this is the complete opposite as the original point of the thread but I just wanted yalls thoughts on Wades future here.If Kubes goes imo Wade is next HC.

TimeKiller
07-16-2011, 08:06 PM
My marijuana is not as good stuff as you guys but this should be a do or die year for Kubiak it has to be.

lol....mine's pretty good and i don't buy it either...

MEGA SWATT
07-16-2011, 11:27 PM
I hope so. I just can't bear to watch us lose numerous close games that should be Ws.

b0ng
07-17-2011, 12:18 PM
If Kubes goes imo Wade is next HC.



This. I think Wade's multi year contract is going to kill any chance of Cowherds coming here.

Wolf
07-17-2011, 12:22 PM
What made Denver's offense exciting to watch, was their "go for the throat" attitude. Just when the other team thought they could relax, it's the first play of the game, Denver had a big lead & was going to run the clock out..... Bam, Denver would kick them in the gnads with a big play. Either break a big run off the cut-back lane, or give them the rope-a-dope with the play action pass.

Kubiak's too damned conservative. & personally I think conservative is the wrong attitude for a young team of Alpha-Males.

& so is Wade.

getting a big lead, doesn't that play in the hands of the opposition? forcing them to pass?


besides as fast as our offense could score, the defense was letting the opposition score faster .

gary
07-17-2011, 12:25 PM
At least with Wade the Texans will make the playoffs and then lose in the first round.

Doppelganger
07-17-2011, 12:30 PM
At least with Wade the Texans will make the playoffs and then lose in the first round.

I thought that was Marty ball.

gary
07-17-2011, 12:32 PM
I thought that was Marty ball.Wade has done it too.

GP
07-17-2011, 02:21 PM
Is a UFL team hiring Gary?

LOL. Good one.

:ahhaha:

badboy
07-17-2011, 03:08 PM
I want to hear Kubiak say that he has changed his philosophy of remaining close enough in game to take advantage of opponent's errors to win in 4th.

Lucky
07-17-2011, 03:28 PM
I want to hear Kubiak say that he has changed his philosophy of remaining close enough in game to take advantage of opponent's errors to win in 4th.
Funny, because I want to hear Kubiak say that he has changed his philosphy of staying close enough in the game for opponents to take advantage of his errors.

Actually, if Kubiak no longer has to say "It's on me", I'll be satisfied.

Texecutioner
07-17-2011, 04:24 PM
Gary Kubiak being the coach of the year is the most hilarious thing I've heard all year. Going 12-4 in your 6th season as HC of a team and having your first real winning season doesn't even make you a good coach. He'd still be one of the worst coaches in the league.

thunderkyss
07-17-2011, 05:08 PM
getting a big lead, doesn't that play in the hands of the opposition? forcing them to pass?


besides as fast as our offense could score, the defense was letting the opposition score faster .

Not exactly.

Clamp
07-18-2011, 02:49 AM
This. I think Wade's multi year contract is going to kill any chance of Cowherds coming here.

Since when does any NFL team care about how long an employees contract is actually supposed to last?

gafftop
07-18-2011, 09:33 AM
Gary Kubiak being the coach of the year is the most hilarious thing I've heard all year. Going 12-4 in your 6th season as HC of a team and having your first real winning season doesn't even make you a good coach. He'd still be one of the worst coaches in the league.

Yep gotta agree. Kubiak will always be in the lower percentile of NFL head coaches. He has shown us that for the last 5 years with almost every decision he has made. Combine that with Smith and we have an 8-8 team at best. I could easily see this team going 5-12 or worse this year. This is based on them making idiotic assumptions/decisions like they do every year.

DocBar
07-18-2011, 09:56 AM
I would do back flips if Kubiak won Coach of the Year. That means the Texans either won the SB or went to the AFC Championship game.
:fingergun:

ChampionTexan
07-18-2011, 10:04 AM
I would do back flips if Kubiak won Coach of the Year. That means the Texans either won the SB or went to the AFC Championship game.
:fingergun:

It would definitely mean good things for the Texans, but it's voted on based on the regular season (last year it was announced on January 13th), so there's no way that playoff results could impact it.

Txn_in_FL
07-18-2011, 10:07 AM
Are we so far gone that we think Kubiak is the 2011 Coach of the Year?

Lock out... please... for all that is grounded in reality... please end.

:vincepalm:

ChampionTexan
07-18-2011, 10:12 AM
Are we so far gone that we think Kubiak is the 2011 Coach of the Year?

Lock out... please... for all that is grounded in reality... please end.

:vincepalm:

GaryKubiak Movie (http://ow.ly/i/etYS)

DocBar
07-18-2011, 02:50 PM
It would definitely mean good things for the Texans, but it's voted on based on the regular season (last year it was announced on January 13th), so there's no way that playoff results could impact it.OK, so we finally make the playoffs and do it as division champs. I'm still happy and doin back flips.
:hurrah::hurrah::hurrah:

badboy
07-18-2011, 03:15 PM
Are we so far gone that we think Kubiak is the 2011 Coach of the Year?

Lock out... please... for all that is grounded in reality... please end.

:vincepalm:So if Texans go 12- 4 you don't think he would be a candidate? How could he not be? The award is about the previous season not a career.

Texecutioner
07-18-2011, 03:18 PM
So if Texans go 12- 4 you don't think he would be a candidate?


No it wouldn't.

Wolf6151
07-18-2011, 03:55 PM
Wade Phillips turns defense as around as he has other teams and Gary Kubiak is able to focus on the offense and do his thing. Few will disagree that Kubes is an offensive guru & the O has looked good last few years and despite losing LT Duane Brown for several games, OD coming off injury and JJ missing some games due to injury in 2010. JJ may not return but the others should have better 2011 & don't forget how good Joel Dreesen looked. I'm thinking O will be even better now that Kubes knows what he has in Foster & that Arian can catch the ball. Only ifI see is if Tater Salad is all that he can be. This big fast RB could give us a 1-2-3 punch like no other team has had in my memory.

We go 12-4 and Gary could be coach of the year. For me this remains Kubiak final shot at doing what he was hired to do. Build a perennial play off machine.


I see someone has been drinking the battle red kool-aid early this year.

Allstar
07-18-2011, 03:56 PM
The only way Kubiak wins COTY is if the Texans have a truly spectacular season with at least 12 wins, and all the other coaches shit the bed.

Texecutioner
07-18-2011, 04:21 PM
The only way Kubiak wins COTY is if the Texans have a truly spectacular season with at least 12 wins, and all the other coaches shit the bed.

Yeah, you don't get coach of the year because you sucked every other year and then all of a sudden have a good year when you should have been fired in the first place. Not gonna happen.

The Pencil Neck
07-18-2011, 05:06 PM
Yeah, you don't get coach of the year because you sucked every other year and then all of a sudden have a good year when you should have been fired in the first place. Not gonna happen.

Sure you do. The COY is only on that year's performance. Previous years performance are irrelevant.

Signed,
Dick Jauron (2001)
Dom Capers (1996)
Ray Rhodes (1995)
Lindy Infante (1990)
...

Texecutioner
07-18-2011, 05:08 PM
Sure you do. The COY is only on that year's performance. Previous years performance are irrelevant.

Signed,
Dick Jauron (2001)
Dom Capers (1996)
Ray Rhodes (1995)
Lindy Infante (1990)
...

I'd have to have seen how many previous years of suckage all these guys had and see how it compared to Kubiak's tenure here to see how legit these examples are. I don't think going back 20 years in a different era of the NFL is a comparable example to use either.

He won't be coach of the year. You can bet the bank on that.

The Pencil Neck
07-18-2011, 05:09 PM
He won't be coach of the year. You can bet the bank on that.

I strongly doubt he'll be coach of the year.

But stranger things have happened.

badboy
07-18-2011, 05:12 PM
I'd have to have seen how many previous years of suckage all these guys had and see how it compared to Kubiak's tenure here to see how legit these examples are. I don't think going back 20 years in a different era of the NFL is a comparable example to use either.

He won't be coach of the year. You can bet the bank on that.If he goes 12- 4 and Texans win first round they attend in playoffs but lose in the next why do you think he would not? Don't just say he won't or Texans will not win 12 because that would become yes he will, no he won't debate.

Double Barrel
07-18-2011, 05:22 PM
As a Texans fan, I hope you're right, badboy! Nothing would make me happier, because that means a decade of mediocre is behind us and we are actually talking about success around these parts!

As an NFL fan, though, I honestly don't see it happening this year. Kubiak is a great OC, but unfortunately, he's our HC. He still seems to be making bad game management decisions after 5 years on the job. And to be quite honest, I'm just not convinced that he's a leader of men that will get them to run through walls for him.

Reminds me of this quote:

"Coaches who can outline plays on a black board are a dime a dozen. The ones who win get inside their player and motivate."
~ Vince Lombardi

I can only hope that Kubiak has finally figured out how to get inside our players and motivate them accordingly. This will be key to him becoming the 2011 coach of the year.

Texecutioner
07-18-2011, 05:28 PM
If he goes 12- 4 and Texans win first round they attend in playoffs but lose in the next why do you think he would not? Don't just say he won't or Texans will not win 12 because that would become yes he will, no he won't debate.

Going 12-4 doesn't all of a sudden make you HC of the year. I've got news for ya, there will be other HC's that go 14-2 and about 3 others who do 12-4 or better possibly. Kubiak becoming coach of the year would probably be the worst thing that could happen in my eyes any way, because Bob would extend him and we'd be in for another 4 years of failures and you guys that like to flip flop every season on whether or not you think he's a good coach would all of a sudden act like he's some god because he finally took this team to the playoffs and he'd be thought of as this great coach again in this city when he never earned that reputation in his first place when people were heralding him as this savior of the Texans organization.

I don't expect the Texans to do anything special this season any way, and I just hope that it's bad enough in Mcnair's eyes to get rid of him finally. If he finally had a decent enough season to make the playoffs this year and got extended again that would just further the dark hole of suckage with this organization and will set us back another decade possibly. Kubiak and Wade Phillips together as coaches is not a good combination at all in my eyes and I want it broken up sooner than later.

badboy
07-18-2011, 05:29 PM
As a Texans fan, I hope you're right, badboy! Nothing would make me happier, because that means a decade of mediocre is behind us and we are actually talking about success around these parts!

As an NFL fan, though, I honestly don't see it happening this year. Kubiak is a great OC, but unfortunately, he's our HC. He still seems to be making bad game management decisions after 5 years on the job. And to be quite honest, I'm just not convinced that he's a leader of men that will get them to run through walls for him.

Reminds me of this quote:

"Coaches who can outline plays on a black board are a dime a dozen. The ones who win get inside their player and motivate."
~ Vince Lombardi

I can only hope that Kubiak has finally figured out how to get inside our players and motivate them accordingly. This will be key to him becoming the 2011 coach of the year.Oh, I agree. I don't think I have offered my opinion here just asked what others thought and why. If Wade's defense leads to more wins, why would not the head coach get credit for the season, just like other teams?

I really was down on Gary last season and he needs to have a huge year to keep him as HC imo.

SteveSlaton20
07-18-2011, 05:31 PM
Don't y'all already know by now that Kubiak sucks?

Texecutioner
07-18-2011, 05:35 PM
Don't y'all already know by now that Kubiak sucks?

I keep wondering that myself. He isn't even supposed to be coaching here anymore any way. The only reason why he is because we have the nicest owner in the league that feels firing someone is to tramatic for him and being being average is good enough as long as you're selling tickets. That's where Mcnair sets the bar.

badboy
07-18-2011, 05:35 PM
Going 12-4 doesn't all of a sudden make you HC of the year. I've got news for ya, there will be other HC's that go 14-2 and about 3 others who do 12-4 or better possibly. Kubiak becoming coach of the year would probably be the worst thing that could happen in my eyes any way, because Bob would extend him and we'd be in for another 4 years of failures and you guys that like to flip flop every season on whether or not you think he's a good coach would all of a sudden act like he's some god because he finally took this team to the playoffs and he'd be thought of as this great coach again in this city when he never earned that reputation in his first place when people were heralding him as this savior of the Texans organization.

I don't expect the Texans to do anything special this season any way, and I just hope that it's bad enough in Mcnair's eyes to get rid of him finally. If he finally had a decent enough season to make the playoffs this year and got extended again that would just further the dark hole of suckage with this organization. Kubiak and Wade Phillips together as coaches is not a good combination at all in my eyes and I want it broken up sooner than later.Bolded is recognised but will these coaches have a record the year before of 6-10? I doubt it. I like Kubiak and Phillips but never fillped flopped on Kubiak. I defended him until last season and called him out on this board to step up and be a coach making good decisions. I feel like I always give fair reviews of all players and management in all sports. He does not have to be given another extension as I think he was extended two more years after this last one of his old deal. In other words 3 more seasons left. If he goes 12-4, McNair would be a fool to extend him; give him at minimum another year (2nd year on this deal and first of his two year extension and see hw he does in 2012.

Texecutioner
07-18-2011, 05:46 PM
Bolded is recognised but will these coaches have a record the year before of 6-10? I doubt it. I like Kubiak and Phillips but never fillped flopped on Kubiak. I defended him until last season and called him out on this board to step up and be a coach making good decisions. I feel like I always give fair reviews of all players and management in all sports. He does not have to be given another extension as I think he was extended two more years after this last one of his old deal. In other words 3 more seasons left. If he goes 12-4, McNair would be a fool to extend him; give him at minimum another year (2nd year on this deal and first of his two year extension and see hw he does in 2012.

Dude, if we went 12-4 and made the playoffs, you'd see confetti at Reliant and that would be the equivalent to winning the SB at this point. This city simply doesn't have high expectations anymore and average is okay. I don't know if it's because of Bud taking his team years ago or if it's because of the Capers era or both, but fans have dropped their standards big time. When we went 9-7 all because the Pats took their starters out everyone acted like we had this great season completely forgetting the 3 games that Kubiak completely destroyed with his bad decisions at the end of games that kept this team out of the playoffs. The Texans went 9-7 despite Kubiak. Not because of him. But the fans celebrated as if we went to the 2nd round of the playoffs that year and that was year 4 of no playoffs for Kubiak. Most HC's are gone by year 3 if they're not on the way up and certainly are by year 4. We're headed into year 6 with this guy all because of the attendance at games being high and because Kubiak is that "nice guy" type of coach that Mcnair likes that won't be controversial.

The reality is that he should not be working here right now. If he has a great season this year record wise, he'll get at least a 3 year extension and you can forget about Kubiak being fired here no matter how bad this team could be after a season like that. Sorry, but I'd rather get one more bad season over with now, in hopes that we can finally get a guy in here that can win consistently.

disaacks3
07-18-2011, 06:28 PM
Dude, if we went 12-4 and made the playoffs, you'd see confetti at Reliant and that would be the equivalent to winning the SB at this point. This city simply doesn't have high expectations anymore and average is okay. Alright now, you've taken this a bit too far.

12-4 isn't "average" anywhere in the NFL. There has never been a team to my recollection that went 12-4 and didn't make the playoffs.

Texecutioner
07-18-2011, 06:33 PM
Alright now, you've taken this a bit too far.

12-4 isn't "average" anywhere in the NFL. There has never been a team to my recollection that went 12-4 and didn't make the playoffs.

Where did I ever say that 12-4 was an average record? I didn't suggest that.

I was talking about the fact that if the Texans did that in the regular season, that would be the equivalent to them winning a SB here. What happened in the playoffs after that wouldn't mean a thing, but just that we got there and even if we got smoked and Kubiak had a bunch of bad decisions on game day, his reputation would automatically go back to being this savior of Houston football and this great HC that needs just a few more years of learning on the job. He should have been fired two years ago when they had that 9-7 season, and instead of getting fired there was confetti thrown and people acted like it was a reason to celebrate. The standards for success here are extremely low for a sports city this big. I don't like that being a fact, but it's true. In my opinion any way.

Allstar
07-18-2011, 06:39 PM
Yeah, you don't get coach of the year because you sucked every other year and then all of a sudden have a good year when you should have been fired in the first place. Not gonna happen.

While I agree that there is no way in hell that Kubiak wins COTY, I don't think that your previous track record has much affect on the voting (not saying it doesn't have any affect).

Ole Miss Texan
07-18-2011, 06:49 PM
I think if the Texans go 12-4, win the division and advance to our first ever playoffs that Kubiak will be in the running to get coach of the year and could easily win it. He'd probably be the front runner, barring a coach taking his 16-0 or a 'young' coach taking his team to the Super Bowl.

Marvin Lewis won it in '09 with an 10-6 record and a loss in the wildcard game. His previous 3 seasons they went 4-11, 7-9, and 8-8.

Allstar
07-18-2011, 06:51 PM
I think if the Texans go 12-4, win the division and advance to our first ever playoffs that Kubiak will be in the running to get coach of the year and could easily win it. He'd probably be the front runner, barring a coach taking his 16-0 or a 'young' coach taking his team to the Super Bowl.

Marvin Lewis won it in '09 with an 10-6 record and a loss in the wildcard game. His previous 3 seasons they went 4-11, 7-9, and 8-8.

You and a number of other posters are forgetting that the votes are cast before the playoffs. Playoff berth would be in consideration. Playoff performance is not.

Texecutioner
07-18-2011, 08:10 PM
I think if the Texans go 12-4, win the division and advance to our first ever playoffs that Kubiak will be in the running to get coach of the year and could easily win it. He'd probably be the front runner, barring a coach taking his 16-0 or a 'young' coach taking his team to the Super Bowl.

Marvin Lewis won it in '09 with an 10-6 record and a loss in the wildcard game. His previous 3 seasons they went 4-11, 7-9, and 8-8.

This post right here would probably be the best counter argument to what I have previously stated, and this is probably not near as close to impossible as I thought. Great post Ole Miss Texan.

The Pencil Neck
07-18-2011, 09:35 PM
This post right here would probably be the best counter argument to what I have previously stated, and this is probably not near as close to impossible as I thought. Great post Ole Miss Texan.

Dude.

Did you read my post earlier?

Did you see the Signees at the end? Dick Jauron, Dom Capers, Ray Rhodes, etc...

All of them had worse track records than Marvin Lewis... hell, they all had worse track records than Kubiak. And all of them won the Coach of the Year on their first good season.

thunderkyss
07-19-2011, 01:48 AM
I think if the Texans go 12-4, win the division and advance to our first ever playoffs that Kubiak will be in the running to get coach of the year and could easily win it. He'd probably be the front runner, barring a coach taking his 16-0 or a 'young' coach taking his team to the Super Bowl.

Marvin Lewis won it in '09 with an 10-6 record and a loss in the wildcard game. His previous 3 seasons they went 4-11, 7-9, and 8-8.

IF we make it through the season relatively healthy, I doubt he'll get a mention. That's what is expected.

If his mother died or something happened team wise, losing many key players, or something along those lines & the Texans manage to go 12-4.....

Then he'll be considered.

But if Peyton Manning has a season ending groin injury in the preseason & Chris Johnson develops fumblitis.... we could go 14-2 & Kubiak won't get any extra credit for doing it.

DocBar
07-19-2011, 04:06 AM
IF we make it through the season relatively healthy, I doubt he'll get a mention. That's what is expected.

If his mother died or something happened team wise, losing many key players, or something along those lines & the Texans manage to go 12-4.....

Then he'll be considered.

But if Peyton Manning has a season ending groin injury in the preseason & Chris Johnson develops fumblitis.... we could go 14-2 & Kubiak won't get any extra credit for doing it. Did you just compare Kubiak to Brett Favre?

Ole Miss Texan
07-19-2011, 10:50 AM
You and a number of other posters are forgetting that the votes are cast before the playoffs. Playoff berth would be in consideration. Playoff performance is not.

Thanks, I couldn't remember when voting takes place. Kinda like the Heisman before bowl games huh!? In this case, I think it would give Kubiak that much more of an edge if we got the division wrapped up. Bilichick, Ryan, Harbaugh, Tomlin are EXPECTED to win 12 games or the division basically each year. Although everyone anticipates the Texans reaching the playoffs or whatnot... that's been anticipated each of the past several seasons. If the Pats, Jets, Ravens, Steelers don't make the playoffs its a huge upset. All else equal I'd think Kubiak gets the nod as he's done something for his team that's never happened. As bad as that is, I think it plays a part in things.

I just hope this is the year the Texans finally kick some ass. I hope this is the year we finally play with an attitude that we're pissed off and want to hit people on every single play.

But hey, if Kubiak does win Coach of the Year, at least we'll know we're on the right track. :tomato:

powda
07-19-2011, 11:50 AM
Kubiak 2011 coach of year?

http://theroadlesstaken.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/This_Is_Sparta.jpg

Madness? This is Houston! Why wouldnt we believe the same fairly tale crap year after year?

bckey
07-19-2011, 12:16 PM
If Phillips turns the defense around and the Texans actually make the playoffs then Phillips should get coach of the year. Kubiak has been a terrible head coach. He needs to go back to being an offensive cordinator. He is terrible at being in charge of the whole process.

The Pencil Neck
07-19-2011, 01:52 PM
I'm just going to throw this out there so I won't be accused of flip-flopping later (as some people are already starting to say.)

I don't think Kubiak is a bad head coach at all. I would have fired him after last season because 6-10 was simply not good enough and ultimately that defense is his fault -- those were the coaches that he wanted and their decisions were his decisions.

But every coach has good and bad years -- Cowher had several 6-10 seasons. Sometimes all their decisions seem to turn out good and sometimes they turn out bad. A lot of people have gotten their panties in a wad about things I don't consider bad decisions (like the half-back throw) but ultimately, it's the end-result that counts and that hasn't been good enough. That's why i would have fired him fully expecting him to go to another team as an HC and win a SB.

I think this team has been built to a point where it is just a piece or two away from being a perennial winner and that's a long way away from where it was when Kubiak took over. So, I'm not going to go out of my way to defend him like I used to but I still don't think that the ire a lot of people on this board have for Kubiak is justified.

Rey
07-19-2011, 02:06 PM
I'm just going to throw this out there so I won't be accused of flip-flopping later (as some people are already starting to say.)

I don't think Kubiak is a bad head coach at all. I would have fired him after last season because 6-10 was simply not good enough and ultimately that defense is his fault -- those were the coaches that he wanted and their decisions were his decisions.

But every coach has good and bad years -- Cowher had several 6-10 seasons. Sometimes all their decisions seem to turn out good and sometimes they turn out bad. A lot of people have gotten their panties in a wad about things I don't consider bad decisions (like the half-back throw) but ultimately, it's the end-result that counts and that hasn't been good enough. That's why i would have fired him fully expecting him to go to another team as an HC and win a SB.

I think this team has been built to a point where it is just a piece or two away from being a perennial winner and that's a long way away from where it was when Kubiak took over. So, I'm not going to go out of my way to defend him like I used to but I still don't think that the ire a lot of people on this board have for Kubiak is justified.

Good post.

At one point I was a big kubiak supporter. But after all these years Ive seen a pattern. And that pattern is losing and for the most part coming up short In key situations.

I hope that changes this year with a competent d coordinator on board.

infantrycak
07-19-2011, 02:13 PM
I'm just going to throw this out there so I won't be accused of flip-flopping later (as some people are already starting to say.)

I don't think Kubiak is a bad head coach at all. I would have fired him after last season because 6-10 was simply not good enough and ultimately that defense is his fault -- those were the coaches that he wanted and their decisions were his decisions.

But every coach has good and bad years -- Cowher had several 6-10 seasons. Sometimes all their decisions seem to turn out good and sometimes they turn out bad. A lot of people have gotten their panties in a wad about things I don't consider bad decisions (like the half-back throw) but ultimately, it's the end-result that counts and that hasn't been good enough. That's why i would have fired him fully expecting him to go to another team as an HC and win a SB.

I think this team has been built to a point where it is just a piece or two away from being a perennial winner and that's a long way away from where it was when Kubiak took over. So, I'm not going to go out of my way to defend him like I used to but I still don't think that the ire a lot of people on this board have for Kubiak is justified.

Pretty much what I feel. Don't know about SB winner but I would say that about Jimmy Johnson or Bill Belicheck as well. You just can't predict what a coach will do with a new team.

Dutchrudder
07-19-2011, 02:28 PM
I bet Jason Garrett gets Coach of the Year in 2011. Turning around a 6-10 Cowboys team in 'the toughest division of the NFL'. It's a good setup for a team in that position.

The Pencil Neck
07-19-2011, 02:56 PM
I bet Jason Garrett gets Coach of the Year in 2011. Turning around a 6-10 Cowboys team in 'the toughest division of the NFL'. It's a good setup for a team in that position.

There is an implicit assumption in that statement.

wildroot
07-19-2011, 03:53 PM
Coach of the year for turning a team around in 6 years? I think that award may be reserved for the coaches who do it in their first year or two.

wildroot
07-19-2011, 03:58 PM
But every coach has good and bad years -- Cowher had several 6-10 seasons.

Don't mean to split hairs but Cowher had TWO 6-10 seasons. "Several" is MORE than two, sometime more than three, but never less than three.

And he did it in a span of 15 years. Kubiak managed to equal him in 5.

mussop
07-19-2011, 04:00 PM
Well I guess if Obama can be elected president anything is possible.

The Pencil Neck
07-19-2011, 04:03 PM
Coach of the year for turning a team around in 6 years? I think that award may be reserved for the coaches who do it in their first year or two.

Not if you look at the history of the people who've won the award.

Most notably is Dick Jauron. With the Bears he went:

1999- 6-10
2000- 5-11
2001- 13-3
2002- 4-12
2003- 7-9

In 2001 after two horrible seasons and then on bright spot blip in the radar, he won coach of the year.

Ray Rhodes went:

1998- 3-13
1999- 6-9-1
2000- 10-6
2001- 10-6

He won COTY in 2000 after just going 10-6.

If the Texans were to go 14-2 or 13-3, Kubiak would be in the running.

The Pencil Neck
07-19-2011, 04:10 PM
Don't mean to split hairs but Cowher had TWO 6-10 seasons. "Several" is MORE than two, sometime more than three, but never less than three.

And he did it in a span of 15 years. Kubiak managed to equal him in 5.

My memory is irrelevant to the point which is that even good coaches sometimes have down years.

And Cowher took over a team that was in much better condition than the team Kubiak took over.

Texecutioner
07-19-2011, 05:52 PM
My memory is irrelevant to the point which is that even good coaches sometimes have down years.

And Cowher took over a team that was in much better condition than the team Kubiak took over.

The difference is that Kubes has never shown that he's a good coach. Only the opposite.

And Cowher didn't take over some great team either. They weren't as bad as the 2-14 Texans, but they weren't a great team at the time.

Nawzer
07-19-2011, 05:58 PM
I can actually see this happening if the Texans make the playoffs. I don't like Kubiak but love the Texans so I would be happy if he did win because it would mean that the Texans had a pretty good season. Although going to the playoffs is simply not enough to warrant Kubiak keeping his job imo. What if we make the playoffs and get absolutely demolished? Kubiak is in a position where I think he has to not only take the Texans to the playoffs but also demonstrate some success at that point. I don't envy the man.

The Pencil Neck
07-19-2011, 06:01 PM
The difference is that Kubes has never shown that he's a good coach. Only the opposite.

And Cowher didn't take over some great team either. They weren't as bad as the 2-14 Texans, but they weren't a great team at the time.

A 7-9 team is a lot better than a 2-14 team.

Texecutioner
07-19-2011, 06:09 PM
A 7-9 team is a lot better than a 2-14 team.

I said they weren't as bad, but you guys need to stop acting like Kubiak took over some HS team. He took over a very bad team just like a ton of other coaches have and we've seen time and time again just since Kubes got hired other coaches take their teams to playoffs even in one season, but several in two. That whole myth around here got debunked several times already and Kubiak's poor decisions are why this team missed the playoffs especially two seasons ago by letting Chris Brown the RB be the savior of 3 different games in which he failed miserably every time. Those calls were on Kubes. He's had 5 years now and outside of Denver and Houston where his homers are, he is thought of as one of the worst HC's in the league. I've had a ton of friends from other states who root for other teams ask me again and again why he is still here.

badboy
07-19-2011, 06:47 PM
Just a reminder, as I understand COTY is based on one year not a historical review. I do think voters look at the revious year, in other words if coach A was 10-6 in 2010 coach B was 6-10, coach B would get the nod. I think other factors such as injuries play a part. So saying Kubiak had 4 losing seasons has nothing to do with 2011 COTY.

Lucky
07-19-2011, 07:49 PM
If the Texans were to go 14-2 or 13-3, Kubiak would be in the running.
Any coach that goes 14-2 or 13-3 is in the running for COY.


But every coach has good and bad years -- Cowher had several 6-10 seasons.
Cowher had two 6-10 seasons. Not several. What he had several of were playoff appearances. 10 in 15 seasons. Please, please do not make comparisons of Gary Kubiak to Bill Cowher. It's foolish.

thunderkyss
07-19-2011, 11:53 PM
I bet Jason Garrett gets Coach of the Year in 2011. Turning around a 6-10 Cowboys team in 'the toughest division of the NFL'. It's a good setup for a team in that position.

Speaking of which....

Ever hear that old saying, "There's nothing in Texas but Steers & Queers?"

I heard, I'm only telling you what I heard now.....

The Steers call themselves Texans.

http://chriscreamer.com/images/logos/7/157/thumbs/570.gif

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0bqv9soagufi4/610x.jpg

http://fantasyknuckleheads.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/texans-mascot-200x300.jpg

& the Queers..... let's just say they wear silver pants.
http://d.yimg.com/i/ng/sp/ap_photo/20101121/all/l4863046.jpg

http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/game-on/2011/07/12/irvinx-inset-community.jpg

I'm just sayin'

badboy
07-29-2011, 06:10 PM
How do you like me now?

The Pencil Neck
07-29-2011, 06:13 PM
How do you like me now?

Let's get double digit wins before we jump back on this thing.

Kimmy
07-29-2011, 06:16 PM
Ummm .. no

badboy
07-29-2011, 06:38 PM
Let's get double digit wins before we jump back on this thing.A lot of posters are saying we are bound for playoffs & maybe not as cautious as you.
lol

Double Barrel
07-29-2011, 07:56 PM
Cowher had two 6-10 seasons. Not several. What he had several of were playoff appearances. 10 in 15 seasons. Please, please do not make comparisons of Gary Kubiak to Bill Cowher. It's foolish.

What blows my mind about Cowher is 108–1–1. This is his record in games in which they built a lead of at least eleven points.

Yeah, I get that he inherited a better team than Kubiak (although Cowher did inherit a losing team, 7-9, and went 11-5 with them. The first of six playoff appearances in a row, making him only one of two coaches to lead his team to the playoffs in each of his first six seasons as head coach in NFL history).

But no way can anyone ever convince me that Kubiak would have been 108–1–1 with that same Steelers team.

Agreed about the foolishness of such comparisons. It's comparing a Fiat to a Ferrari at this point.

Hardcore Texan
07-29-2011, 08:00 PM
How do you like me now?

I liked you better in the Asomugha has already signed with the Texans thread.......you are on a roll G!

Allstar
07-29-2011, 08:04 PM
How do you like me now?

Still pretty dumb.

Doppelganger
07-29-2011, 08:05 PM
How do you like me now?

Your team has done very well in the Off season, no doubt. But you didn't win the offseason. Thus far the Iggles are winning it.

DX-TEX
07-29-2011, 08:07 PM
Alright we're getting ahead of ourselves now.

Youknow?

ObsiWan
07-29-2011, 08:12 PM
Your team has done very well in the Off season, no doubt. But you didn't win the offseason. Thus far the Iggles are winning it.

yeah, they stole DRC and a 2nd rd pick from AZ for a backup QB and then won the Nnamdi sweepstakes over Rex Ryan and Jerruh Jones (if Jerruh was actually ever in it). They'll probably unload Asante Samuel for a 2nd day pick... The Walrus is Dealin'

thunderkyss
07-29-2011, 08:55 PM
How do you like me now?

can we get that in pink soap.

badboy
12-05-2011, 10:36 PM
Thought I'd bump this thread. I enjoyed reading some of the slams I got. Still long ways to go; well not really. 4 games and we should sweep.

edo783
12-06-2011, 12:33 AM
IMO, he certainly should be in the running. I doubt he would get it. The Harbaugh at the 49ers will likely be the one.

Corrosion
12-06-2011, 12:58 AM
Good post.

At one point I was a big kubiak supporter. But after all these years Ive seen a pattern. And that pattern is losing and for the most part coming up short In key situations.

I hope that changes this year with a competent d coordinator on board.

The one constant has been that he has put his players in a position to win games / make critical plays ..... those players havent done that until this season.

Sometimes the breaks go your way ..... sometimes they dont. Two games that stand out to me from last season are Jax and Baltimore. Jax needed a miracle on the final play ..... and had JJ caught a damn ball that hit him in the hands in the endzone in Baltimore that game never goes to OT. Those plays were left on the field last season ..... those same plays are going the Texans way this season.



Don't mean to split hairs but Cowher had TWO 6-10 seasons. "Several" is MORE than two, sometime more than three, but never less than three.

And he did it in a span of 15 years. Kubiak managed to equal him in 5.

Cower didnt take over a 2-14 team either .....

badboy
12-06-2011, 11:11 AM
IMO, he certainly should be in the running. I doubt he would get it. The Harbaugh at the 49ers will likely be the one.

Would not injuries play into that? Don't really keep up with SF but doubt they had same issues.

Double Barrel
12-06-2011, 11:42 AM
While I understand the desires of Texans fans to crown our head coach, it is premature at this point simply because this season has not played out.

We are assuming that the Texans clinch the AFC South and make the playoffs, but it has not happened, yet. All that is certain right now is that the Texans have matched their best win total.

Let's give it a few weeks and then revisit this discussion. Kubiak might be the clear favorite when this team goes 13-3 and is the top seed in the AFC.

thunderkyss
12-06-2011, 12:38 PM
While I understand the desires of Texans fans to crown our head coach, it is premature at this point simply because this season has not played out.

We are assuming that the Texans clinch the AFC South and make the playoffs, but it has not happened, yet. All that is certain right now is that the Texans have matched their best win total.

Let's give it a few weeks and then revisit this discussion. Kubiak might be the clear favorite when this team goes 13-3 and is the top seed in the AFC.

I agree completely. When does the award get handed out?



I'm really all about balance. Sometimes I'll take one side of an argument, sometimes the other. Usually I'm on the homer side. So I can understand how some people will misconstrue what I am saying.

So to be clear.


I don't think Kubiak deserves COY.

Double Barrel
12-06-2011, 01:15 PM
I agree completely. When does the award get handed out?



I'm really all about balance. Sometimes I'll take one side of an argument, sometimes the other. Usually I'm on the homer side. So I can understand how some people will misconstrue what I am saying.

So to be clear.


I don't think Kubiak deserves COY.

yeah, I do the same thing on topics that I do not have 100% conviction. Sometimes it's just fun to discuss things from all angles.

Do you think he should get CotY if we go 13-3 and have top seed in the playoffs?

TexanSam
12-06-2011, 01:18 PM
yeah, I do the same thing on topics that I do not have 100% conviction. Sometimes it's just fun to discuss things from all angles.

Do you think he should get CotY if we go 13-3 and have top seed in the playoffs?

I think it all depends on what Harbaugh does in San Francisco. If they finish with only 2 or 3 losses then he'll definitely get it since it's his first season. Kubiak definitely deserves to be in the discussion though.

Texan_Bill
12-06-2011, 01:22 PM
I bet Jason Garrett gets Coach of the Year in 2011. Turning around a 6-10 Cowboys team in 'the toughest division of the NFL'. It's a good setup for a team in that position.

Coaches that freeze their own kicker don't recieve much consideration in COY!! :lol:

J/K Dutch!

Texan_Bill
12-06-2011, 01:24 PM
IMO, he certainly should be in the running. I doubt he would get it. The Harbaugh at the 49ers will likely be the one.

Agreed. Before Harbaugh showed up, San Fran was a train wreck, although he did inherit some talent.

thunderkyss
12-06-2011, 01:34 PM
Do you think he should get CotY if we go 13-3 and have top seed in the playoffs?

Like you, I think Harbaugh deserves it if he can finish. I also think McCarthy deserves it if they go 16-0 after a SuperBowl

If Buffalo can get into the play-offs even as a wild card I think Gailey is more deserving.

If Fox & Tebow win that division, I think they would be more deserving.

Marvin Lewis with Dalton & Green

There's a lot of great coaching going on. Kubiak deserves to be in the conversation, but since this is year 6 (I know this is supposed to be in a bubble) I think that cancels out the injury thing.

Porky
12-06-2011, 01:36 PM
Kubiak has been brilliant this year. Did I just say that? Of course, much of that brilliance can be explained by :wadepalm: however, looking at the injury situation at key positions and key players and yet they keep rolling along... and he has in general done much better at every area I saw him as weak in before this year.

I dare say the light bulb seems to have finally been lit. At this point, I want Kubes here next year, and Kubes and Phillips are a dynamic duo that will be a periennial contender for years imo. We have finally hit the mother lode, and I definetely think he is a COTY candidate even if they split the last two.

Bring on the kool-aid!:fans:

thunderkyss
12-06-2011, 03:39 PM
Kubiak has been brilliant this year.

I'm thinking, the way he's been playing Schaub over his last 3 or 4 games, he's got to be clairvoyant. Like he knew we'd be getting down to our third string (practice squad) QB.

badboy
12-06-2011, 10:49 PM
So all the other coaches listed could be 9-3 or better with same loss of players we have had? You got to be kidding me. SF with 3rd string QB last 5 games? Each team loses it's #1 WR and arguably one of its best defensive players? Somebody got some splaining to do Lucy.

MEGA SWATT
12-06-2011, 11:02 PM
So all the other coaches listed could be 9-3 or better with same loss of players we have had? You got to be kidding me. SF with 3rd string QB last 5 games? Each team loses it's #1 WR and arguably one of its best defensive players? Somebody got some splaining to do Lucy.

MSR

I was positive in my July post on page 1 btw. You called it like a mo-fo, bro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If he does not get it, it's just more Houston hate/lack of respect.

badboy
12-06-2011, 11:12 PM
MSR

I was positive in my July post on page 1 btw. You called it like a mo-fo, bro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If he does not get it, it's just more Houston hate/lack of respect.

Yes, you did. I liked Gary from beginning but his stubborness on holding onto his coaches especially on Defense was losing me fast. I was disgusted & ready to turn off team. The hiring of Wade Phillips was the turnaround. Few head coaches have to be the OC while the DC does nothing. The negative is I don't think Gary would have gone to McNair and said "I want Wade Phillips." I believe that talk went the other way. We could be building a dynasty.

SF49erFaithful
12-07-2011, 04:53 AM
So all the other coaches listed could be 9-3 or better with same loss of players we have had? You got to be kidding me. SF with 3rd string QB last 5 games? Each team loses it's #1 WR and arguably one of its best defensive players? Somebody got some splaining to do Lucy.

:homer:

The Texans are LEGIT this year but I haven't even heard of Kubiak as even in the discussion until I glanced over this thread. It is awesome that they have played through such significant injuries, and I do think Kubiak deserves credit for helping them through that, but to think of him as the favorite is just being a homer. Bottom line, he has a very poor track record with defensive head coaches and lucked out when Wade, probably the best DC in the NFL, hit the market in the same state. So I'd say he is too reliant on Wade to be considered COY. In all like likelihood, if Wade leaves for another HC job/retires, the defense is probably back in the dumps if history is any indicator. Plus, this is Kube's 6th year as a HC and only his first year to the playoffs...no? That certainly doesn't bode well for his case.

Even if McCarthy runs the table, he won't get it either. Nobody even knows of that guy. He is probably an above average head coach and not much more. They do a great job drafting talent and have a good system, but that team was average without Rodgers. Definitely good fortune that he inherited him. Correct me if I'm wrong, but McCarthy wasn't even sold on Rodgers when he was at GB. He kept Favre, drafted Brohm, and I believe there were even rumors circulating that Rodgers was on the block. Don't quote me on that though. Bottom line, that team is awesome but McCarthy doesn't deserve too much of the credit. AR foremost and then the GM. Kudos to McCarthy for developing the talent, though.

Fox won't get it. No way. The Broncos are 7-5 in a pretty bad division and haven't beat one good team. None that I can think of, at least. Aren't their last 3 wins that are being hyped up so much against the likes of Minne, SD, and Miami? Again, pathetic, especially considering they needed a miracle each time. Don't forget about his stubborn ways earlier in the season either, refusing to unseat Orton. His comments to the media about Tebow sucking don't help him, either.

I heard Chan Gailey mentioned somewhere....:facepalm: Seriously? I don't think much an explanation is needed there. It is like his 3rd year as HC and Buffalo hardly looks improved. After starting off hot, they've lost like 5-6 in a row and stand at 5-7 overall. If anything, that is a Dishonorable Coach of the Year candidate. Aaron Maybin's resurgance only makes him look worse, on top of all that.

Marvin Lewis? No way. He has been the HC for an eternity and hasn't done shit. One of the worst HCs in the NFL. This is like his 3rd winning season in the past 10. Bengals aren't dominant by any means. Good, but not special. They are 7-5, I think.

Harbaugh has it locked up. I think there is about a 5% chance anyone even comes close, let alone gets it. If it's not him, it will probably be McCarthy. Depending on how the rest of the season and playoffs go, Hue Jackson, John Fox, and Kubiak could be considered.

TheMatrix31
12-07-2011, 06:57 AM
This is Coach of the Year. Not coach of the last 6 years. What Kubiak or the Texans did from 2006 through 2010 doesn't mean a lick of shit when it comes to discussion about who is the 2011 Coach of the Year.

Grams
12-07-2011, 07:52 AM
yeah, I do the same thing on topics that I do not have 100% conviction. Sometimes it's just fun to discuss things from all angles.

Do you think he should get CotY if we go 13-3 and have top seed in the playoffs?

I read the title of this and thought - no way!!!

But after reading some of the posts and thinking about it - if we go 13-3 with a 3rd string 5th round rookie QB, losing Mario, AJ, Foster and others, learning a new defense - I think he should.

I thought he should have been fired after last year.

ObsiWan
12-07-2011, 08:14 AM
This is Coach of the Year. Not coach of the last 6 years. What Kubiak or the Texans did from 2006 through 2010 doesn't mean a lick of shit when it comes to discussion about who is the 2011 Coach of the Year.

If that's the case then whether or not the Niners sucked for the last umpteen years should be irrelevant.

Both coaches have turned around 6-10 teams to be division leaders. And since the NFC West doesn't have any other team with even a .500 record, let alone a winning record (like the Titans do) then I submit the Texans have accomplished more than the Niners.

This is irrelevant anyway. McCarthy is going to be CotY.
...and Rodgers will be MVP.

SF49erFaithful
12-07-2011, 09:32 AM
This is Coach of the Year. Not coach of the last 6 years. What Kubiak or the Texans did from 2006 through 2010 doesn't mean a lick of shit when it comes to discussion about who is the 2011 Coach of the Year.

Um, except it does. It is very relative and puts things into context.

I'll use an example to demonstrate my point. Let's say a coach of an NBA franchise hasn't had a winning season before. His team ranks near the bottom of the league in wins ever year since he took over. It is his 8th year with the club, and after using the no.1 overall pick on Jon Doe, his team makes the playoffs with Jon Doe lighting the league up and winning MVP in his rookie year. Are you telling me you'd think the coach in this scenario would be deserving of Coach of the Year? All things held constant, it looks like he is not a great coach, and the team is winning because of Jon Doe.


If the Texans have not been to the playoffs since Kubiak took over, which was 5 years ago now, and then this year they get who is considered the best D coordinator in the business, how much success can you attribute to Kubiak? It sure looks like everything is held constant here, with Wade being the independent variable. Sure, Joseph was a big signing, and Watt looks good, but they alone couldn't have caused the complete turn-around in the defense, especially in such short time.

Keep in mind the example I used to illustrate my point was quite extreme. I don't feel the Texans' case is to that degree.....it was just to exaggerate my argument.

thunderkyss
12-07-2011, 10:57 AM
:homer:

Even if McCarthy runs the table, he won't get it either. Nobody even knows of that guy. He is probably an above average head coach and not much more.
...but that team was average without Rodgers. Definitely good fortune that he inherited him. ...Kudos to McCarthy for developing the talent, though.

Fox won't get it. No way. The Broncos are 7-5 in a pretty bad division and haven't beat one good team. None that I can think of, at least. Aren't their last 3 wins that are being hyped up so much against the likes of Minne, SD, and Miami? Again, pathetic, especially considering they needed a miracle each time.

Sounds a little contradictory to me. First, no one knows the coach of the Super Bowl Champs who happen to be undefeated after week 12. Really?

Second, lucky that he inherited Rogers? Then you go on & drag the Chargers through the mud? That's Phillip Rivers with as talented a group of receivers & defense as what they have in GB. GB is knocking down all comers, NO, NYG, Chicago, Atlanta (those are all the NFC Contenders minus SF).

That's coaching. San Diego can't win in the AFC West & GB is taking names in the NFC North & you don't see the value of good coaching?

Harbaugh has it locked up. I think there is about a 5% chance anyone even comes close, let alone gets it. If it's not him, it will probably be McCarthy. Depending on how the rest of the season and playoffs go, Hue Jackson, John Fox, and Kubiak could be considered.

Sounds like homers come in all shapes, sizes, & logos.

infantrycak
12-07-2011, 11:06 AM
:homer:

The Texans are LEGIT this year but I haven't even heard of Kubiak as even in the discussion until I glanced over this thread.

Then you haven't been looking. There is an ESPN article discussing Kubiak in this context up right now. I don't think he will win it but he is in the discussion.

Dutchrudder
12-07-2011, 11:21 AM
Sounds a little contradictory to me. First, no one knows the coach of the Super Bowl Champs who happen to be undefeated after week 12. Really?

Second, lucky that he inherited Rogers? Then you go on & drag the Chargers through the mud? That's Phillip Rivers with as talented a group of receivers & defense as what they have in GB. GB is knocking down all comers, NO, NYG, Chicago, Atlanta (those are all the NFC Contenders minus SF).

That's coaching. San Diego can't win in the AFC West & GB is taking names in the NFC North & you don't see the value of good coaching?


Sounds like homers come in all shapes, sizes, & logos.

To add on to the McCarthy argument, one thing that is important is that most teams that win the Super Bowl tend to have a 'hangover' the next year. I think a lot of that has to do with motivation of the players and a even some great coaches don't overcome that. The Packers are playing lights out this year despite just winning a Super Bowl. I think that's pretty amazing too, especially if they go 16-0. No way could you give it to anyone else at that point, 16-0 is so uncommon and difficult that it alone makes the case for best coach of the year.

Dutchrudder
12-07-2011, 11:23 AM
Coaches that freeze their own kicker don't recieve much consideration in COY!! :lol:

J/K Dutch!

Eh... I said that back in July. It's just a combination of hype around the Cowboys, visibility, and media attention that it was a good setup for Garret to prove himself this year. Doubt it will happen now even if they win out. I'd say McCarthy or Harbaugh get it this year.

ChampionTexan
12-07-2011, 11:36 AM
:homer:

Even if McCarthy runs the table, he won't get it either. Nobody even knows of that guy. He is probably an above average head coach and not much more. They do a great job drafting talent and have a good system, but that team was average without Rodgers. Definitely good fortune that he inherited him.

In 2006, McCarthy took over a Packers team that had been 4-12 the year before. In his second year, he took them to 13-3 and the NFC Championship game - which they lost to the eventual Super Bowl Champion Giants. This occurred before Aaron Rodgers ever started a game for the Pack.

In terms of nobody knowing of him, if this were true, it would have been difficult to finish second in the 2007 Coach of the year voting - yet he did that. In what could possibly end up being a foreshadowing of this years award, the coach that beat him to win in 2007 was Bill Belichick - who's team had just completed the first (and as of right now only) 16-0 regular season the NFL has seen.

Maybe Harbaugh will get it, maybe someone other than Harbaugh or McCarthy will get it (there is still four weeks to go after all), but to dismiss McCarthy in the manner that you have is ludicrous and uninformed.

bckey
12-07-2011, 12:13 PM
Take away Wade Phillips and then look at where the Texans would be this year. Kubiak is still the same ol Kubiak of years past. Absolutely no way the Texans beat Atlanta last week without Phillips defense. I said it last year when Bob stepped in and hired Wade and kept Kubiak. The only way the Texans will make the playoffs and/or superbowl is if Wade Phillips can build an elite defense. An elite defense can make up for offensive mistakes and weaknesses. You can punt the ball when maybe you would have gone for it on 4th because your defense couldn't be trusted to stop the opposing team's offense. A long field goal try is more of an option because the defense can be counted on to stop the opposing offense. QB sacks, 3rd and 4th down stops, hurried qbs, repeatedly hit qbs, interceptions, batted passes, fumbles and hard hits on receivers win games.

Kubiak is an average coach that has had the benefit of an overly patient owner. 10 years
(6 for Kubiak) to get to the playoffs is way too long. Yes it is sweet but there were some bad decisions that set the Texans back a few years here and there. And I really think if the dc decision would have been left to Kubiak we wouldn't be talking about playoffs this year. Bob knew it too and stepped in. I didn't like the way he went about it but I did like the hire.

I really don't see how Kubiak can even be discussed as coach of the year. My vote goes to Harbaugh. He has done something in San Fran that Kubiak could never do. Turn a team completely around in 1 year on both sides of the ball and clinch a division title by week 12. Phenomenal job. If you take off the koolaid glasses there really is no comparison.

thunderkyss
12-07-2011, 01:10 PM
I really don't see how Kubiak can even be discussed as coach of the year. My vote goes to Harbaugh. He has done something in San Fran that Kubiak could never do. Turn a team completely around in 1 year on both sides of the ball and clinch a division title by week 12. Phenomenal job. If you take off the koolaid glasses there really is no comparison.

So, they fired their GM & got a new guy at the recommendation of Jim Harbaugh?

They turned over close to 50% of the roster?

They went from being the 30th ranked offense & the 30th ranked defense to top 10 on both counts?

Because that's where the Texans were.

SF49erFaithful
12-07-2011, 01:28 PM
So, they fired their GM & got a new guy at the recommendation of Jim Harbaugh?

They turned over close to 50% of the roster?

They went from being the 30th ranked offense & the 30th ranked defense to top 10 on both counts?

Because that's where the Texans were.

And it only took about 6 years and the best DC in the NFL to do so.

bckey
12-07-2011, 01:28 PM
Wow just wow. You just can't ever take those homer glasses off for even a second. 6 years compared to 1 and a better record with a division clinched. No matter what the differences were when each coach was hired that is awesome. Heck I don't even care for Harbaugh but at least I can see that he has done a fantastic job there. If Kubiak had taken over the 49ers I really don't think they would be 12 and 1 with a division title clinched already. What about you TK?

SF49erFaithful
12-07-2011, 01:42 PM
Sounds a little contradictory to me. First, no one knows the coach of the Super Bowl Champs who happen to be undefeated after week 12. Really?

Second, lucky that he inherited Rogers? Then you go on & drag the Chargers through the mud? That's Phillip Rivers with as talented a group of receivers & defense as what they have in GB. GB is knocking down all comers, NO, NYG, Chicago, Atlanta (those are all the NFC Contenders minus SF).

That's coaching. San Diego can't win in the AFC West & GB is taking names in the NFC North & you don't see the value of good coaching?

You wanna go down that road? Please, be my guest. Because by your logic, Jim Caldwell is a great HC. He lead the Colts to a 13-0 record before resting his starters and an appearance to the Super Bowl. That must be because the Colts needed him in addition to Peyton Manning to get that far, right? Oh wait, that's right, their 0-12 now without him. As an AFC South fan, I thought you'd pick up on that one. The reason the Chargers aren't winning is because Phillip Rivers isn't NEAR the QB Manning/Rogers are, AND Norv Turner is an awful HC.

But to be fair, I didn't give McCarthy nearly enough credit, I concede that much. After giving myself a refresher course, and by some of the observations pointed out on the previous page, he had achieved some things that slipped my memory. Still, he had the luxury of inheriting TWO of the greatest QBs of all time. But I can't ignore the possibility that AR's gifted passing is a product of his tutelage, and that Favre did have an incredible year under him in 07. And GB did go 4-12 the year before, but for a long stretch ending just the year before that, were perennial playoffs contenders. The point being it wasn't a bad team. Although to say the team is improved now with better depth is an understatement. A 12-0 start following a SB win is impressive, period. Still, McCarthy won't get the award, I don't think. I think that is AR's team...obviously not even close to the degree of PM and the Colts though. Plus, 16-0 isn't as special as it used to be, since BB accomplished that milestone so recently. But if he does go the full 19-0 I wouldn't be surprised to see him get it, since that hasn't happened before.


Sounds like homers come in all shapes, sizes, & logos.

So a Packer's fan would be a homer by your criteria if he stated that Green Bay was the best team in the league? Because casual fans and NFL "experts" alike are in almost complete agreement that Harbaugh is a virtual lock, just as they believe GB to be the team to beat.

Thorn
12-07-2011, 01:52 PM
When Kubiak wins the super bowl this year with all the injuries he's delt with, and with Yates or (God forbid) one of those other two guys, then I can see him in the discussion. But not now, and not until then. Right now I'd vote for Harbaugh before Mcarthy.

thunderkyss
12-07-2011, 04:09 PM
Wow just wow. You just can't ever take those homer glasses off for even a second. 6 years compared to 1 and a better record with a division clinched. No matter what the differences were when each coach was hired that is awesome. Heck I don't even care for Harbaugh but at least I can see that he has done a fantastic job there. If Kubiak had taken over the 49ers I really don't think they would be 12 and 1 with a division title clinched already. What about you TK?

That's not the point.

I'm fine with Harbaugh getting coach of the year & I don't think Kubiak deserves to be in the conversation, read my posts in this thread, I said exactly that.

It's that comment, "He's done something Kubiak could never have done." We don't know that.

Turning a team completely around in one year? That's not what happened in San Francisco. That was the 13th ranked defense, not the 30th like Kubiak took over.

That's a young team, with young talent, not at all like what Kubiak took over.

It's not that I think Kubiak is a great coach or anything like that. But that one statement of yours, the part I quoted, is way off base imo.


If Kubiak took over that team with the schedule they played.... I think it's possible. This team has played as hard as they could have I think, since Kubiak has been here. They've never quit on him as far as I can tell.

But Kubiak didn't take over that team, so we don't know.

gary
12-07-2011, 10:10 PM
McCarthy or Harbaugh deserve it this year hands down. End thread.

spurstexanstros
12-08-2011, 09:54 AM
I think Kubiak deserves it because of all the adversity this team has faced this year. Marion (gone) Foster out 2 to 3 weeks AJ misssed 6 games (so far), not only did he lose Mat Shcaub for the year, but his back up as well and now they are rollin in to stretch run with 5th round rookie....If that doesnt scream coach of the year I dont know what does.

txns4lf
12-08-2011, 12:06 PM
McCarthy or Harbaugh deserve it this year hands down. End thread.

i agree with this...but i think harbayugh may deserve it a little more given his circumstances...

ziggy29
12-08-2011, 12:09 PM
....If that doesnt scream coach of the year I dont know what does.
Maybe what Harbaugh has done in San Fran? Nothing from the job Kubes has done this year, but if the season ended today Harbaugh would be a stone cold lock. A lot of people predicted the Texans would make the playoffs even before Peyton went down. No one expected the 49ers to be 10-2 with the fewest points allowed in the NFL (by a wide margin).

drs23
12-08-2011, 12:49 PM
i agree with this...but i think harbayugh may deserve it a little more given his circumstances...

And what team does this mystery coach, coach?? :worm:

Jeeze.

chicagotexan2
12-08-2011, 01:31 PM
It's been a great ride so far but there are still 4 games to go so.....

let's not start mucking each other's wrist quite yet. (TBS version)



http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/94294/The_Wolf_2_medium.jpg

thunderkyss
12-11-2011, 12:25 AM
76Texans posted a link to an article (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d824c21fa/article/texans-keep-the-good-times-rolling-with-qb-no-3) on NFL.com, I didn't think much about the article itself, but two comments posted afterwards got me thinking.

I think the NFL analysts should stop surround teams with drama like the colts, falcons, the bears because they suck and stop giving the 49ers and packers all the "unstoppable" title Because we all know who they both play, they have easy schedules like look what happen to the 49ers when they played baltimore, they got whooped! The packers havnt played a top 10 defense team. UNLIKE the Texans now they have played 7 top 10 defenses and lost only against the ravens they will soon play their 8th TOP 10 defense team this coming up sunday. So i think hands down the Texans can beat the "Unstoppable" Green Bay Packers in a heart beat because the packers cant handle Foster and Tate or the Number 1 underrated defense in the NFL. Like they say Offense wins games Defense wins championships so in February we'll see who is the Champion.

i think its funny with the colts they lose one player peyton manning yes hes good but they still got their defense and everybody was all freaking out with the colts 0-12 the chicago bears lose jay cutler then lose matt forte everybody started freaking out about them 7-5 the texans lost mario williams for the season lost arian foster for a couple games lost andre johnson for 6 games and he comes back and injures his other hamstring and might be out a couple weeks then they lose daniel manning foe a few games hes a safety they lose there QBS matt shaub and matt lineart for who knows how long and then lose are punter brett hartman and aint nobody freaking out with the texans nobodys talking about them and how they cant lose it just shows nobody likes the texans yet the only good thing i noticed is that the texans now QB is t.j. yates thankfully his name dont start with matt and the texans are 9-3

I'm changing my vote. Gary Kubiak should be Coach-of-the-Year.

ObsiWan
12-11-2011, 01:07 AM
Wow just wow. You just can't ever take those homer glasses off for even a second. 6 years compared to 1 and a better record with a division clinched. No matter what the differences were when each coach was hired that is awesome. Heck I don't even care for Harbaugh but at least I can see that he has done a fantastic job there. If Kubiak had taken over the 49ers I really don't think they would be 12 and 1 with a division title clinched already. What about you TK?

Harbaugh lucked in to what Singletary had started building the two years before. When Singletary sat Vernon Davis down after seeing him slack off in a game, that set the tone for the Niners you see today. And as for building a team, the current Niner team you see today has been in the works since they picked Alex Smith and Frank Gore in 2005 and Vernon Davis in 2006 and Patrick Willis in 2007 (0r 2008?)... anyway, that team has been stacking up 1st round picks since before Kubiak got to Houston.

And if you just want to compare improvement from last year to this, the I submit Kubiak has done a better job. Both teams were 6-10 last year and are leading their divisions this year. So that's a wash. Wait... no it isn't. There's no team in the NFC West that has better than a 5-7 record. At least we go against the Titans who are still in the playoff hunt.

I give the Niners one, maybe two, quality wins this year. The first one was when they beat the Lions when both teams were 5-0. The second one was when the defense shut down the Giants' attempt at a comeback a couple of weeks ago. And since the Lions have only two wins since their fast start and are now 7-5 and the schizo Giants are 6-6, those wins aren't all that impressive when you look closer.

I said it before and I'll say it again:
The reigning champs always get everyone's best shot. That's always the case. Every team wants to see how they do against the best. You all know this. And it is doubly the case when the reigning champs are undefeated.

If the Pack finishes 16-0, McCarthy gets CotY. Harbaugh and Fox and Kubiak and maybe Marvin Lewis will be in the discussion but McCarthy will win.

Big Lou
12-11-2011, 01:08 AM
Harbaugh took over a solid team with talent in a weak division. I don't see a lot of huge wins on thier schedule so far. Not saying Kubes deserves it but Harbaugh is a flash in the pan.

Lucky
12-11-2011, 09:45 AM
76Texans posted a link to an article (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d824c21fa/article/texans-keep-the-good-times-rolling-with-qb-no-3) on NFL.com
Those quotes were from the comment section. Not the actual article.

Harbaugh lucked in to what Singletary had started building...
And Kubiak lucked into Wade Phillips.
Harbaugh took over a solid team with talent in a weak division. I don't see a lot of huge wins on thier schedule so far. Not saying Kubes deserves it but Harbaugh is a flash in the pan.
Why do we have to knockdown the accomplishments of other coaches? Harbaugh took over a franchise that hadn't won in 9 years. Without the benefit of minicamps and OTAs to install his system. And turned the Niners into big winners. Something many said was impossible. It didn't take him 6 years. Jim Harbaugh has had one of the more special coaching seasons in recent memory.


Actually, if Kubiak no longer has to say "It's on me", I'll be satisfied.
After 5-3/4 years, I'm satisfied. And yes, Kubiak deserves more consideration due to the excessive injuries to key players. In a normal season, Kubiak would probably win. This isn't a normal season.

ObsiWan
12-11-2011, 10:20 AM
Those quotes were from the comment section. Not the actual article.


And Kubiak lucked into Wade Phillips.
McNair fired Bush and went for an ungrade. That's not luck. That was a conscious decision. By most accounts it wasn't Kubiak's decision it was McNair. No CotY points for Kubiak on that hire.

Why do we have to knockdown the accomplishments of other coaches? Harbaugh took over a franchise that hadn't won in 9 years. Without the benefit of minicamps and OTAs to install his system. And turned the Niners into big winners. Something many said was impossible. It didn't take him 6 years. Jim Harbaugh has had one of the more special coaching seasons in recent memory.
Why do we overblow what should have been the obvious outcome if you did a little homework and did a talent comparison up & down that division? Who in the NFC West has the talent, top to bottom, that the Niners have amassed since 2005?
Now, having said that, the one thing I will give Harbaugh credit for is the transformaton of Alex Smith. He has turned Smith from "bust" into a top ten QB. Smith had been under defensive minded coaches his whole career and we know how that works out don't we? Now that Alex Smith finally got with a coach that understands QBs, he is doing very well. I would give Harbaugh CotY consideration for that accomplishment alone. Because that's all coaching.
But no CotY points for running a talent-laden team thru a weak schedule and an even weaker division.

I'm tellin' ya guys. Coach of the Year is McCarthy's to lose.

Lucky
12-11-2011, 10:50 AM
Why do we overblow what should have been the obvious outcome if you did a little homework and did a talent comparison up & down that division?
Arizona doesn't have talent (Fitzgerald, Wilson, Dockett)? I don't see the big talent disparity there with the Niners. The Niners are winning because they do the little things. Take care of the ball. Create turnovers. Excel on special teams. That's coaching. Harbaugh has turned the mentality of this franchise around. In 5 months time.

BTW, the Texans currently play in the league's weakest division ( I did my homework). The AFC South has a worse collective record than both the NFC or AFC South.

thunderkyss
12-11-2011, 10:52 AM
Those quotes were from the comment section. Not the actual article.



I thought I made that clear.
76Texans posted a link to an article (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d824c21fa/article/texans-keep-the-good-times-rolling-with-qb-no-3) on NFL.com, I didn't think much about the article itself, but two comments posted afterwards got me thinking.


Next time I'll type slower for you.

Lucky
12-11-2011, 11:10 AM
Next time I'll type slower for you.
I would appreciate that.

Not to start a new thread, but we all must realize that a division title means a contract extension for Kubiak. We're probably looking at him signed through the 2015 season. I hope McNair can get Wade signed for that length of time. Based on merit, Phillips deserves another shot as a head coach in the NFL. Based on age and image, I don't think Wade will ever be a head coach again. Not fair to Phillips, but it is good for this franchise.

ObsiWan
12-11-2011, 11:33 AM
Arizona doesn't have talent (Fitzgerald, Wilson, Dockett)? I don't see the big talent disparity there with the Niners. The Niners are winning because they do the little things. Take care of the ball. Create turnovers. Excel on special teams. That's coaching. Harbaugh has turned the mentality of this franchise around. In 5 months time.

BTW, the Texans currently play in the league's weakest division ( I did my homework). The AFC South has a worse collective record than both the NFC or AFC South.

Arizona would have been the Niners only real competition if Kolb had clicked with his receivers sooner... And they don't have nearly the caliber of defense that the Niners do. Three teams in our division have top ten defenses. Outside of the Niners - who are #1 - none of the NFCW teams have a defense in the top half of the league. I'll grant you, record-wise, the AFCS can be viewed as the worse division. We can thank the Oh-fer Colts for that. Let me ask you this: do you actually believe that the Niners have had to face division foes with the caliber of defense that we have? I don't.

And I still say CotY is McCarthy's to lose so this whole Harbaugh vs. Kubiak this is an academic exercise anyway.

ObsiWan
12-11-2011, 11:36 AM
I would appreciate that.

Not to start a new thread, but we all must realize that a division title means a contract extension for Kubiak. We're probably looking at him signed through the 2015 season. I hope McNair can get Wade signed for that length of time. Based on merit, Phillips deserves another shot as a head coach in the NFL. Based on age and image, I don't think Wade will ever be a head coach again. Not fair to Phillips, but it is good for this franchise.

While I agree, I thought someone posted a Wade quote where he said, he wasn't really interested in another head coaching gig...?

I just hope, given his age, he's grooming a successor. I mean another extension would mean he's coaching in his late sixties - nearly seventy! I would think he'd want to hang 'em up in the not-to-distant future.

TexansBull
12-11-2011, 11:43 AM
It won't bother me if Kubes doesn't get it this year. Kubes will get it when we are repeat Superbowl Champions!:texanbill:

Lucky
12-11-2011, 11:48 AM
I just hope, given his age, he's grooming a successor. I mean another extension would mean he's coaching in his late sixties - nearly seventy! I would think he'd want to hang 'em up in the not-to-distant future.
Why? It's not like he has to do press conferences or interviews. All he has to do is coach. Dick LeBeau is 10 years older than Wade, and still going strong.

Lucky
12-11-2011, 11:52 AM
Let me ask you this: do you actually believe that the Niners have had to face division foes with the caliber of defense that we have? I don't.
What does that mean? The Niners have and will face opponents that have a higher winning % than the Texans have and will face. I'm not knocking what the Texans have done. They've beaten the teams in front of them. So why knock the Niners for doing the same thing?

TexansBull
12-11-2011, 12:00 PM
While I agree, I thought someone posted a Wade quote where he said, he wasn't really interested in another head coaching gig...?

I just hope, given his age, he's grooming a successor. I mean another extension would mean he's coaching in his late sixties - nearly seventy! I would think he'd want to hang 'em up in the not-to-distant future.

Age may not matter. I think Dick LaBeau is in his mid to late sixties and still going strong. Correct me if I am wrong. Also, how old was Parcells in Miami? And what is the name and age of Payton Manning's x-offensive coordinator that is now at the Jets? Marty Schottenheimer was up there in San Diego too wasn't he? I think 68-70 tends to be the retirement age of successful coordinators because of longevity. I would look up those guys and ages but I am on my "Pinto-like" Blackberry.

Those guys have been in a stressful job, but their bodies haven't been broken down like us in various jobs or been exposed to chemicals in the plants so they can work longer.

thunderkyss
12-11-2011, 12:48 PM
I would appreciate that.

Not to start a new thread, but we all must realize that a division title means a contract extension for Kubiak. We're probably looking at him signed through the 2015 season.

I'm not seeing that. McNair locked Kubiak through this season & next (right?) I doubt we'll see a contract extension until next season, depending on how the team plays.

With Wade, I think you may as well sign the extension now, because we've got the beginning of a dynasty & I doubt we'll drop off next year, even though our division will be tougher & we'll play tougher Divisions (NFC North & AFC East I think)

At least if I were McNair, I would wait unless we get to the AFC Championship game.

Lucky
12-11-2011, 01:20 PM
I'm not seeing that. McNair locked Kubiak through this season & next (right?) I doubt we'll see a contract extension until next season, depending on how the team plays.


Mcnair won't let Kubiak coach on the last year of a contract. Kubiak getting an extension is a lock.

thunderkyss
12-11-2011, 07:15 PM
Mcnair won't let Kubiak coach on the last year of a contract. Kubiak getting an extension is a lock.

I think it depends on what message McNair wants to put out.

That we're being tough & going to make Kubiak prove that it isn't a fluke.


or that he was right all along & Kubiak is no fluke.


I'm going to withdraw my previous assumption.

I think you're right & Kubiak will be extended before next season starts.

TexansFanatic
12-11-2011, 07:19 PM
I'm going to withdraw my previous assumption.

I think you're right & Kubiak will be extended before next season starts.

Yep.

That's a move that has McNair written all over it.

No way he lets Kubiak coach without job security.

houstonspartan
12-11-2011, 07:25 PM
Kubiak deserves to keep his job.

He does not deserve a freaking EXTENSION. No way.

This guy has been given more extensions and chances than anyone. Let him earn his next contract. Let this contract play out and then see.

Wade's going to be getting head coaching job offers up the wazoo during the off season. If he takes one of them, Kubiak is in deep doo do.

Congrats to Kubiak on this season, but, let's be clear here, people: 2011 belongs to Wade Phillips.

tielahr
12-12-2011, 02:06 PM
What do y'all think of Kubiak's chances of making the Coach of the Year award?
He's going against the rookie, Jim Harbaugh, who is the front runner of the race for obvious reasons. But with the turn around we have had this year along with the TONS of injuries we have endured throughout the season you can make a strong case for Kubiak to be the rightful winner.

With the week 14 loss to the Cardinals the 49ers are 10-3 along with the Texans. The next 3 weeks look like this

Week 15: Steelers
Week 16: @ Seahawks
Week 17: @ Rams

If we win out and they lose against the Steelers, would that do the trick?

DBCooper
12-12-2011, 02:10 PM
We are having this discussion today because of the son of Bum.

That is all.

The Pencil Neck
12-12-2011, 02:11 PM
Kubes is in the discussion but Harbaugh (both of them really), Fox, and McCarthy are also in the mix.

You could go just about any way and make a case.

Personally, if the Packers go undefeated, I don't see how you don't give it to McCarthy.

ziggy29
12-12-2011, 02:12 PM
I see four realistic candidates: Kubiak, Harbaugh, McCarthy and Fox.

Fox wasn't even in the picture a few weeks ago and still has no chance if Denver misses the playoffs. But if they continue to win, "Tebowtime" or not, and take the division after that horrendous start he's a legitimate candidate.

McCarthy had a loaded team, but it still takes great coaching to hold a team together with NO let downs in a season, and it doesn't take much of a letdown on any given Sunday to lose in the NFL.

Harbaugh may have looked like the favorite a few weeks ago, but the 49ers seem to be weakening down the stretch and Alex Smith is again becoming what we thought he was.

If Green Bay goes undefeated, I think it goes to McCarthy -- it's hard to go against ANY coach that leads a team to an undefeated season in the NFL. If they don't, the next three weeks with Houston, San Fran and Denver may determine it.

tielahr
12-12-2011, 02:17 PM
I see four realistic candidates: Kubiak, Harbaugh, McCarthy and Fox.

Fox wasn't even in the picture a few weeks ago and still has no chance if Denver misses the playoffs. But if they continue to win, "Tebowtime" or not, and take the division after that horrendous start he's a legitimate candidate.

McCarthy had a loaded team, but it still takes great coaching to hold a team together with NO let downs in a season, and it doesn't take much of a letdown on any given Sunday to lose in the NFL.

Harbaugh may have looked like the favorite a few weeks ago, but the 49ers seem to be weakening down the stretch and Alex Smith is again becoming what we thought he was.

If Green Bay goes undefeated, I think it goes to McCarthy -- it's hard to go against ANY coach that leads a team to an undefeated season in the NFL. If they don't, the next three weeks with Houston, San Fran and Denver may determine it.

Completely forgot about McCarthy :vincepalm:
It may just be my Texans bias, but having all the injuries to our key players and STILL clinching a division title for the first time ever. That's crazy. I could be wrong but the ONLY time where we have had Aj, Matt, Mario, and Foster was the length of a quarter and a half. If the packers lost Clay Matthews, Arod, Woodson, and like Greg Jennings and still kept winning, that'd be impressive. But what the Texans have done is something special.

Thorn
12-12-2011, 02:18 PM
Individual awards for coaches and players are all fine, and I hope they get a lot of them. But winning the division, winning an AFC Conferance title and a Super Bowl is better. I think Kubiak at least deserves to be mentioned when talking about coach of the year, but I don't see him winning it unless he wins the super bowl. Which would be nice.

BigBull17
12-12-2011, 02:31 PM
How could it not be Kubiak? Who could overcome THIS MUCH? This is honestly one of the better coaching jobs I have ever seen.

Goatcheese
12-12-2011, 02:34 PM
My Ballot

#1 McCarthy - undefeated, 'nuff said.
#2 Kubiak - Looking at 13-3 without Schaub, AJ or Mario
#3 Harbaugh West - Great turnaround story, falling off in the home stretch
#4 Harbough East - Talented team that has a tendency to CHOKE against bad teams on the road

Corrosion
12-12-2011, 02:39 PM
My Ballot

#1 McCarthy - undefeated, 'nuff said.
#2 Kubiak - Looking at 13-3 without Schaub, AJ or Mario
#3 Harbaugh West - Great turnaround story, falling off in the home stretch
#4 Harbough East - Talented team that has a tendency to CHOKE against bad teams on the road

I pretty much agree with this ..... but if GB loses a game .....

Nawzer
12-12-2011, 03:14 PM
He's definitely in the running and if he can finish 13-3 it would be hard to vote against him.

Ole Miss Texan
12-12-2011, 03:42 PM
I think each of these coaches being mentioned definitely would be deserving of the 'prize'.

Harbaugh - Surprise to me the 49'ers are doing so well. The Niners were 6-10 last year just like the Texans, both are now 10-3. I'd think Harbaugh might get an edge simply because he's a rookie NFL head coach, while this is Kubiak's 6th season with the Texans.

McCarthy - If he goes 16-0 I think his chances skyrocket. 16 is tough to do in this league. Kudos.

Fox - If he wins out I can see some merit to it... but that would be 11 wins max. The "turn around" is staggering but they were 2-4 their first 6 games with 3 of those losses being by a combined 11 points (3,3,5). The Texans were 3-3 through their first 6 games and are on a 7 game win streak.

Kubiak - Turned a 6-10 team around to now sitting at 10-3 with just clinching the division and earning a playoff spot for the first time in team history. Many will point to Wade Phillips as the biggest reason for the turnaround and I'd say that's true. Don't forget part of a HC's job is to continually improve the team not only by players but coaches and assistants as well. Sure McNair wanted Wade but you'd be kidding yourself if you think Kubiak didn't want to hire him here. A big plus for Kubiak has been his ability to lead the team week in and week out. Foster started the season injured. Andre has been injured and missed half the season. Danieal Manning misses time. Mario gets put on Injured Reserve. Schaub gets injured and put on injured reserve, backup Leinart goes out. 3 games with our 3rd string rookie QB and we're still winning. We've overcome SO much adversity that it boggles my mind. And with 3 games left in the season, we're still very VERY much in the talks of being the 1st seed - the #1 team in the AFC. To add to it, the fanbase was calling for his head this offseason, wanting a new head coach.

This may totally be a homer pick, but that's fine. I'd vote Kubiak at this point. We've just overcome so much to be sitting where we're at right now. Our team is so resilient this year, just like Kubes.

Double Barrel
12-12-2011, 04:24 PM
I was arguing for Harbaugh last week, but man, after watching this team clinch it's first division title with a rookie QB and many of our pro bowlers on the bench, I think a solid case should be made for Kubiak. That might be homerism talking, but what the heck. I think he's got a good as a shot as anyone with the exception of McCarthy at 16-0.

Playoffs
12-12-2011, 05:00 PM
What other HCs have their 3rd string QBs game ready just in case???

badboy
12-12-2011, 05:08 PM
If Gary gets blame for Bush then he should get credit for Wade Phillips. Thread doesn't sound so stupid now does it? Not guaranteeing he will but is good to be able to have a talk about it.

Ole Miss Texan
12-12-2011, 05:43 PM
If Gary gets blame for Bush then he should get credit for Wade Phillips. Thread doesn't sound so stupid now does it? Not guaranteeing he will but is good to be able to have a talk about it.
Sure is nice just being able to mention his name in there!

I don't think what Wade has done should detract from Kubiak as Head Coach of the Year. We don't think any less of Bill Cowher because he had Dick LeBeau as DC do we!?

texanway
12-12-2011, 06:02 PM
I think the Yates situation and how Kubiak utilized him perfectly shows he's the COY. So happy what he's doing with the situation. Could've handled it other ways but he played his cards right.

Rey
12-12-2011, 07:12 PM
This thread should include a poll.

But I said Kubiak a while back and I'll stick with that.

Corrosion
12-12-2011, 07:27 PM
What other HCs have their 3rd string QBs game ready just in case???

Just look at the Dolts for a prime example of what can happen when your starting QB goes down and you have nothing behind him. 0Fer13 and counting.

thunderkyss
12-12-2011, 08:15 PM
Sure is nice just being able to mention his name in there!

I don't think what Wade has done should detract from Kubiak as Head Coach of the Year. We don't think any less of Bill Cowher because he had Dick LeBeau as DC do we!?

Or Sean Peyton

Top 10 defenses:

Houston
Pittsburgh
Baltimore
Jacksonville
San Francisco
New York Jets
Cincinnati
San Diego
Cleveland
Washington


The teams in Bold are on the outside looking in. Only Cincinnati has a reasonable chance of making the play-offs & San Diego a slim chance. Great defensive personnel (& let's be honest, most of ours were here before Wade was), great defensive coordinators...

NFL Football is the ultimate team sport. We're not 10-3 right now, because we have a great defense, we're 10-3 because we have a great team.

I don't think Kubiak has earned the CoTY, I don't think he's close to being the favorite. He should be in the conversation, but there is a lot of football left for Gary Kubiak, Jim Harbaugh, Mike McCarty, John Fox, etc... etc.. etc...

Corrosion
12-12-2011, 08:23 PM
Or Sean Peyton

Top 10 defenses:

Houston
Pittsburgh
Baltimore
Jacksonville
San Francisco
New York Jets
Cincinnati
San Diego
Cleveland
Washington


The teams in Bold are on the outside looking in. Only Cincinnati has a reasonable chance of making the play-offs & San Diego a slim chance. Great defensive personnel (& let's be honest, most of ours were here before Wade was), great defensive coordinators...

NFL Football is the ultimate team sport. We're not 10-3 right now, because we have a great defense, we're 10-3 because we have a great team.

I don't think Kubiak has earned the CoTY, I don't think he's close to being the favorite. He should be in the conversation, but there is a lot of football left for Gary Kubiak, Jim Harbaugh, Mike McCarty, John Fox, etc... etc.. etc...

To the bold - Much of the talen on the defensive side was added this past offseason.

Watt , Reed , J-Jo and Manning may as well add Barwin to that group since he played a half of football last season.


Other than that , I agree with your assessment of the COY situation - there's a long way to go.

thunderkyss
12-12-2011, 08:38 PM
To the bold - Much of the talen on the defensive side was added this past offseason.

Watt , Reed , J-Jo and Manning may as well add Barwin to that group since he played a half of football last season.


Other than that , I agree with your assessment of the COY situation - there's a long way to go.

Not trying to downplay the addition of those 4 guys..... Watt, Reed, Jjo, & Manning.

I'm saying it's 11 guys on defense: Cody, Antonio, Barwin, Demeco, Cushing, Quin, Kjac........ all were here before Wade got here, so while Wade's 4 guys are great, the guys Kubiak brought in weren't all that bad, especially if you include Mario, Sharpton, McCain, Nolan, Demps (kinda)

QB75
12-12-2011, 09:05 PM
My vote would go to Harbaugh for the immediate turnaround in his first season.

Corrosion
12-12-2011, 09:33 PM
Not trying to downplay the addition of those 4 guys..... Watt, Reed, Jjo, & Manning.

I'm saying it's 11 guys on defense: Cody, Antonio, Barwin, Demeco, Cushing, Quin, Kjac........ all were here before Wade got here, so while Wade's 4 guys are great, the guys Kubiak brought in weren't all that bad, especially if you include Mario, Sharpton, McCain, Nolan, Demps (kinda)

Oh I dont dispute that at all .... just pointing out that ~50% of the defense is new players or players at new positions.

Gotta give both Kubiak and Wade a lot of credit for a job well done thus far .... and hope we have a lot of football left to watch , all the way to Feb 5th 2012.

DocBar
12-12-2011, 09:39 PM
I stand behind my vote for Harbaugh in SF. The Texans have had talented payers but lacked a talented coordinator.

thunderkyss
12-12-2011, 10:31 PM
I stand behind my vote for Harbaugh in SF. The Texans have had talented payers but lacked a talented coordinator.

The same can be said about SanFran. That's the same team Nolan was building, that Singletary continued building. There may be three new starters on both sides of the ball.

gary
12-12-2011, 11:24 PM
If the Packers end up 19-0 then it should be McCarthy hands down.

Lucky
12-12-2011, 11:26 PM
If the Packers end up 19-0 then it should be McCarthy hands down.
True, but Coach of the Year is a regular season award voted on prior to the playoffs.

gary
12-12-2011, 11:35 PM
True, but Coach of the Year is a regular season award voted on prior to the playoffs.OOPS. Sorry.

steelbtexan
12-12-2011, 11:45 PM
If the Packers end up 19-0 then it should be McCarthy hands down.

16-0

Undefeated = COY

McCarthy

thunderkyss
12-13-2011, 12:39 PM
If Gary gets blame for Bush then he should get credit for Wade Phillips. Thread doesn't sound so stupid now does it? Not guaranteeing he will but is good to be able to have a talk about it.

I don't necessarily think this is true. We all know Wade was McNair's hire.

But I don't think that minimizes Kubiak's accomplishments. Cleveland & Jacksonville both have top 10 defenses, neither of them are in the play off hunt. Atlanta has a top 10 defense & their play-off future is in jeopardy. Cincy have top 10 defenses, & they are on the outside looking in for play-off spots.

Not to minimize Wade's contribution, but I don't think we'd have turned this thing around so thoroughly, even with Wade as the cook, if Kubiak & Smith didn't do as good a job with the groceries. Those high character guys that we see some posters complaining about.

ObsiWan
12-19-2011, 12:34 PM
I stand behind my vote for Harbaugh in SF. The Texans have had talented payers but lacked a talented coordinator.

The same can be said about SanFran. That's the same team Nolan was building, that Singletary continued building. There may be three new starters on both sides of the ball.

16-0

Undefeated = COY

McCarthy

Now that GB has lost can McCarthy still get CotY with a 15-1 record?

I don't think SF beats Pittsburgh tonight ... The Steelers will be on a mission since a Pittsburgh win means they go to the top of the AFC North. And Big Ben is supposed to start.

So you have McCarthy at 15-1, Harbaugh at 11-5 (I don't think they beat the redhot Seahawks up in Seattle next week either), or Kubiak at 12-4.

Who's Coach of the Year??

I still say McCarthy.

badboy
12-19-2011, 03:05 PM
I think loss against Panthers hurt Kubiak's chances. He needed to win out and at least one PO win.

ATXtexanfan
12-19-2011, 09:27 PM
why would anyone pick kubiak for coach of the year when we all know wade saved is ass?

ObsiWan
12-20-2011, 10:32 AM
why would anyone pick kubiak for coach of the year when we all know wade saved is ass?

Wade's defense without Kubiak's offense = Jacksonville

badboy
12-20-2011, 11:04 AM
Wade's defense without Kubiak's offense = JacksonvilleThis is why. Texans offense is very good and we have been winning with many key injuries. I still challenge anyone supporting another head coach to compare our injurires to the other candidates injury list.

dream_team
12-20-2011, 11:12 AM
Wade's defense without Kubiak's offense = Jacksonville

If the Texans win out... no matter what happens with the other teams, I'd still give COTY to Kubiak. What he has done, despite all of the injuries, is a minor miracle. Every week, the team had a reason to lose and blame the injuries... but they didn't, they accepted the "next man up" mantra and continued on their mission.

The COTY award is awarded for this season, and this season only. So you can't judge him on past seasons.

And in the past, we kept blaming all of the defensive woes on Kubiak, regardless who he had at DC. But now that the defense is playing well, Kubiak doesn't get any credit?

thunderkyss
12-20-2011, 11:23 AM
And in the past, we kept blaming all of the defensive woes on Kubiak, regardless who he had at DC. But now that the defense is playing well, Kubiak doesn't get any credit?

I think Kubiak definitely deserves consideration.

However, I do understand the argument here. Kubiak & Rick Smith didn't go too far outside their circle of friends when they attempted to fill the DC position. They didn't bring Greg Williams in for a talk. They didn't bring Nolan in for a talk.

They brought Frank Bush in 2008, but didn't get rid of Richard Smith until 2009, then automatically promoted Bush while presenting a weak attempt to look outside the organization.

As far as anyone knows, Kubiak & Rick Smith did not reach out to Wade Phillips. McNair did & McNair landed him.

So, I do understand fans not giving Kubiak credit for the defense (even though the majority of the ingredients were already here, even though the draft looked just like any Kubiak/Smith draft since 2007). I don't agree, but I understand.

From what I gather, the way Kubiak & Smith talk, every decision is a decision agreed upon by a certain group. Sometimes it's Smith, Kubiak, McNair & Cal. Sometimes it's Kubiak & his coaching staff. But it is rarely ever just Kubiak's decision for this, or Smith's decision for that. By that same token, I do not buy it was McNair's decision to bring in Wade. I think they all came to the conclusion that we would have a great team with Wade running the defense. Kubiak's job may have been held as leverage, I don't know, but it is plausible.

ObsiWan
12-20-2011, 05:01 PM
I think Kubiak definitely deserves consideration.

However, I do understand the argument here. Kubiak & Rick Smith didn't go too far outside their circle of friends when they attempted to fill the DC position. They didn't bring Greg Williams in for a talk. They didn't bring Nolan in for a talk.

They brought Frank Bush in 2008, but didn't get rid of Richard Smith until 2009, then automatically promoted Bush while presenting a weak attempt to look outside the organization.

As far as anyone knows, Kubiak & Rick Smith did not reach out to Wade Phillips. McNair did & McNair landed him.

So, I do understand fans not giving Kubiak credit for the defense (even though the majority of the ingredients were already here, even though the draft looked just like any Kubiak/Smith draft since 2007). I don't agree, but I understand.

From what I gather, the way Kubiak & Smith talk, every decision is a decision agreed upon by a certain group. Sometimes it's Smith, Kubiak, McNair & Cal. Sometimes it's Kubiak & his coaching staff. But it is rarely ever just Kubiak's decision for this, or Smith's decision for that. By that same token, I do not buy it was McNair's decision to bring in Wade. I think they all came to the conclusion that we would have a great team with Wade running the defense. Kubiak's job may have been held as leverage, I don't know, but it is plausible.

The red and the blue statements are in direct conflict. Are you saying the red statement is the "conventional local wisdom" and the blue is what you believe actually went down...?
:thinking:

Dutchrudder
12-20-2011, 06:55 PM
The AP COTY award is awarded before the Super Bowl is played, and it seems the voting is concluded just after the conference championships (can't find specifics on it, but if someone else can please post). So playoff performance could have something to do with who wins the award, but looking at past winners it seems to deal more with regular season accomplishments. If you look at past award winners you can see that the voters love turn-around years and regular season domination.

Past few winners:
2010 Bill Bellichek New England Patriots - 14-2 Pats domination
2009 Marvin Lewis Cincinnati Bengals - Turnaround to a playoff team
2008 Mike Smith Atlanta Falcons - 11-5 turnaround year for that team
2007 Bill Belichick(2) New England Patriots - 16-0 domination
2006 Sean Payton New Orleans Saints - Big year for NO 13-3
2005 Lovie Smith Chicago Bears - 11-5 after going 5-11 last season
2004 Marty Schottenheimer San Diego Chargers 12-4 after going 4-12 last season
2003 Bill Belichick New England Patriots - 14-2 domination

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Coach_of_the_Year_Award#A P_NFL_Coach_of_the_Year

I don't think the Texans are quite as big of a turnaround as the 49ers, but I'd put Kubiak at #3 overall behind them and McCarthy. However, AP does have a Coordinator of the Year award, which should go to Wade unanimously.

badboy
12-21-2011, 10:16 AM
The AP COTY award is awarded before the Super Bowl is played, and it seems the voting is concluded just after the conference championships (can't find specifics on it, but if someone else can please post). So playoff performance could have something to do with who wins the award, but looking at past winners it seems to deal more with regular season accomplishments. If you look at past award winners you can see that the voters love turn-around years and regular season domination.

Past few winners:
2010 Bill Bellichek New England Patriots - 14-2 Pats domination
2009 Marvin Lewis Cincinnati Bengals - Turnaround to a playoff team
2008 Mike Smith Atlanta Falcons - 11-5 turnaround year for that team
2007 Bill Belichick(2) New England Patriots - 16-0 domination
2006 Sean Payton New Orleans Saints - Big year for NO 13-3
2005 Lovie Smith Chicago Bears - 11-5 after going 5-11 last season
2004 Marty Schottenheimer San Diego Chargers 12-4 after going 4-12 last season
2003 Bill Belichick New England Patriots - 14-2 domination

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Coach_of_the_Year_Award#A P_NFL_Coach_of_the_Year

I don't think the Texans are quite as big of a turnaround as the 49ers, but I'd put Kubiak at #3 overall behind them and McCarthy. However, AP does have a Coordinator of the Year award, which should go to Wade unanimously.I think COTY is based upon regular season only. On your SF pick is the team on it's 3rd string QB? Has it's # 1 WR missed 9 games (includes Dec 22nd)? Did SF lose a starting LB? Did the starting FS break his leg? Did the starting RG break his leg? Just as a starting point.

Not jumping on you but do you look at this aspect or just the W/L turn around from year before?

Ole Miss Texan
12-21-2011, 10:36 AM
The AP COTY award is awarded before the Super Bowl is played.....
Thanks for compiling this Dutch, great info!
On your SF pick is the team on it's 3rd string QB? Has it's # 1 WR missed 9 games (includes Dec 22nd)? Did SF lose a starting LB? Did the starting FS break his leg? Did the starting RG break his leg? Just as a starting point.

Not jumping on you but do you look at this aspect or just the W/L turn around from year before?
I agree badboy.

I think SF is getting a big boost because of Rookie HC and them starting off so hot. I keep hearing "what a big turn around for the Niners" But it's not like they went from an 0-16 team to 16-0 or anything. If we're looking at past seasons I would say yes the Texans have underperformed BUT we've been very comparable to SF.

2011: HOU (10-4) vs SF (11-3)
2010: HOU (6-10) vs SF (6-10)
2009: HOU (9-7) vs SF (8-8)
2008: HOU (8-8) vs SF (7-9)

The way the Texans have dealt with so much adversity this season is the trump card for me.

Double Barrel
12-21-2011, 12:08 PM
Now that GB has lost can McCarthy still get CotY with a 15-1 record?

I don't think SF beats Pittsburgh tonight ... The Steelers will be on a mission since a Pittsburgh win means they go to the top of the AFC North. And Big Ben is supposed to start.

So you have McCarthy at 15-1, Harbaugh at 11-5 (I don't think they beat the redhot Seahawks up in Seattle next week either), or Kubiak at 12-4.

Who's Coach of the Year??

I still say McCarthy.

Now that the 49ers beat down one of the AFC's best teams and the Packers lost to the lowly Chiefs, do you feel any different?

I would give it #1 to Harbaugh and #2 to Kubiak.

McCarthy, great coach, but he's working with the Super Bowl champions this season. That's much different than taking two clubs like the Texans and 49ers to their first playoff berths in a decade.

Dutchrudder
12-21-2011, 02:46 PM
I think COTY is based upon regular season only. On your SF pick is the team on it's 3rd string QB? Has it's # 1 WR missed 9 games (includes Dec 22nd)? Did SF lose a starting LB? Did the starting FS break his leg? Did the starting RG break his leg? Just as a starting point.

Not jumping on you but do you look at this aspect or just the W/L turn around from year before?

They haven't had near the amount of injuries the Texans have this year. In fact, I'd say only about 3 teams have had more IR players than them (Bills, Seahawks and Jags). Although I'm not sure which are starters and which are not. I don't even recognize a few of the Texans' names.

List of all team's IR players:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/injuries/pup

In any case, I think the 49ers will wind up with a 13-3 (seahawks & rams left) record and the Texans will likely be 11-5 or 12-4. I'd still give it to Harbaugh for turning around that team in 1 year, not 6. Wade is the rudder that has righted the course of the Texans ship, not Kubiak. He is without a doubt the Coordinator of the Year. Kubiak is riding his defense at this point.

thunderkyss
12-21-2011, 04:44 PM
In any case, I think the 49ers will wind up with a 13-3 (seahawks & rams left) record and the Texans will likely be 11-5 or 12-4. I'd still give it to Harbaugh for turning around that team in 1 year, not 6. Wade is the rudder that has righted the course of the Texans ship, not Kubiak. He is without a doubt the Coordinator of the Year. Kubiak is riding his defense at this point.

Did Sean Payton win a Super Bowl for the Saints or is that Greg Williams' Super Bowl?

Dutchrudder
12-21-2011, 05:14 PM
Did Sean Payton win a Super Bowl for the Saints or is that Greg Williams' Super Bowl?

Super bowl win = team accomplishment

COTY award = individual contribution

Look, if Harbaugh had been the 49ers coach for the past 6 years, then yeah he wouldn't be in the conversation. But it took him 1 year to do what it took Gary 6 years. That's the difference, end of story.

thunderkyss
12-21-2011, 05:52 PM
Super bowl win = team accomplishment

COTY award = individual contribution

Look, if Harbaugh had been the 49ers coach for the past 6 years, then yeah he wouldn't be in the conversation. But it took him 1 year to do what it took Gary 6 years. That's the difference, end of story.

I don't have a problem with picking Harbaugh over Kubiak for COTY. I would be upset, if Kubiak got the COTY, for personal reasons.

But to say:
Wade is the rudder that has righted the course of the Texans ship, not Kubiak.

Is just like saying Greg Williams won the Super Bowl, not Sean Payton.

COTY is about the team, keeping the team together & having them play good, competitive football consistently. Wade didn't do that in Dallas.... hence he is not a head coach right now.

Dutchrudder
12-21-2011, 06:24 PM
I don't have a problem with picking Harbaugh over Kubiak for COTY. I would be upset, if Kubiak got the COTY, for personal reasons.

I agree with that to some extent. I don't hate Kubiak, but I do wish he was an OC rather than an HC.

But to say:


Is just like saying Greg Williams won the Super Bowl, not Sean Payton.

COTY is about the team, keeping the team together & having them play good, competitive football consistently. Wade didn't do that in Dallas.... hence he is not a head coach right now.

If Kubiak won a Super Bowl this year, I would say he's a super bowl winner along with everyone else on the team. It's a team accomplishment. COTY is an individual award to recognize an individual coach's contribution to the team. There's a difference, and it's not to say that the team doesn't matter, but I don't think Kubiak did anything special or different this year. He handed the draft over to Wade to bring in guys for his defense. The best thing he did this year was letting go of control of the draft for the first 4 rounds.

Grabbing Yates may turn out to be a steal, but I don't think that alone is worth the award. In contrast, Harbaugh took a mediocre Alex Smith and turned him into an above average QB. A guy most people had declared a bust (and still is somewhat) and turned the offense around with him at the helm. That's pretty amazing to do in 1 season. Smith has a 91.1 QBR this year, and is on track for his first 3000+ yard season.


Also before someone throws out the inevitable "NFC West is a crappy division" argument, the 49ers Strength of Victory so far is .449 and the Texans is .400.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/standings/_/type/playoffs/sort/strengthOfVictory/order/true

Kaiser Toro
12-21-2011, 08:01 PM
Kubiak is in the discussion, which is a huge achievement.

thunderkyss
12-21-2011, 09:50 PM
I agree with that to some extent. I don't hate Kubiak, but I do wish he was an OC rather than an HC.

For the record, I don't hate Kubiak. My personal reasons has nothing to do with hate.

If Kubiak won a Super Bowl this year, I would say he's a super bowl winner along with everyone else on the team. It's a team accomplishment. COTY is an individual award to recognize an individual coach's contribution to the team. There's a difference, and it's not to say that the team doesn't matter, but I don't think Kubiak did anything special or different this year.

I'm sure this makes perfect sense to you. Please try to understand some of us may find it difficult to understand.

He handed the draft over to Wade to bring in guys for his defense. The best thing he did this year was letting go of control of the draft for the first 4 rounds.

This is speculative. The 2011 draft was really no different than any draft since 2006. High character guys, team leaders..... defense heavy, which is probably the main reason Wade was able to turn the defense around so fast.

Grabbing Yates may turn out to be a steal, but I don't think that alone is worth the award. In contrast, Harbaugh took a mediocre Alex Smith and turned him into an above average QB. A guy most people had declared a bust (and still is somewhat) and turned the offense around with him at the helm. That's pretty amazing to do in 1 season. Smith has a 91.1 QBR this year, and is on track for his first 3000+ yard season.

& you attribute that directly with Harbaugh? People were thinking Cushing was one-&-done, a product of steroids.... he's now leading the team in tackles, some saying he's the best LB in the game.

We took Cincinnati's "other" corner & he's having an all-pro season.

If you want to go offensively, "people" are talking about Chris Myers like he'll be an All-Pro, this "no-name" offensive line is regarded as the best in the league (by some) (San Francisco has 3 first rounders on their OL; Staley, Iupati, Davis. Plus they have a first rounder in Michael Crabtree, & Vernon Davis.

Oh yeah, Alex Smith was a first overall pick.

Then We've got an Undrafted free agent as our leading rusher (& starting RG until recently).


Also before someone throws out the inevitable "NFC West is a crappy division" argument, the 49ers Strength of Victory so far is .449 and the Texans is .400.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/standings/_/type/playoffs/sort/strengthOfVictory/order/true

Like I said, I have no problem giving the award to Harbaugh, I think he is more deserving. I just don't undertand thinking Kubiak doesn't belong in the conversation....

Fangio, Aldon Smith, Patrick Willis has just as much to do with Harbaugh's success as Wade, Joseph, & Cushing.

BullBlitz
12-21-2011, 10:18 PM
Wade was the difference this year in the Texans. Harbaugh would get my vote.

ObsiWan
12-21-2011, 11:48 PM
Now that the 49ers beat down one of the AFC's best teams and the Packers lost to the lowly Chiefs, do you feel any different?

I would give it #1 to Harbaugh and #2 to Kubiak.

McCarthy, great coach, but he's working with the Super Bowl champions this season. That's much different than taking two clubs like the Texans and 49ers to their first playoff berths in a decade.

I suspect the CotY voting will go the way you predict.

I respect McCarthy at 15-1 (assuming they win out) because, as the champs, you get everyone's best shot.

I respect Kubiak's record, because, like the Niners, we were 6-10 last year and have been able to keep winning despite numerous injuries. Keeping the team focused and winning while star after star are lost for numerous games (if not for the season) is a coaching accomplishment. It's akin to what McCarthy did with the Packers last year when they kept losing starters. He kept them focused on the goal.

I'm just not sold on Harbaugh as a "mastermind" because of all the talent he inherited; plus his team has been relatively injury free this year.

So I wouldn't be surprised or consider it some sort of travesty if he wins it.

Personally, I think Kubiak's best decision all year might be chosing not to speak over the headset when the defense is on the field. :D

Edit: I think Tomlin ought to be up for anti-CotY for starting a very, very gimpy Roethlisberger. When I predicted a Steelers victory, I had no idea Ben R. was THAT bad off. He could barely get off the damned bus.

Big Lou
12-22-2011, 01:26 AM
Super bowl win = team accomplishment

COTY award = individual contribution

Look, if Harbaugh had been the 49ers coach for the past 6 years, then yeah he wouldn't be in the conversation. But it took him 1 year to do what it took Gary 6 years. That's the difference, end of story.

Not advocating for Kubes here but you give Hairball, I mean Harbaugh the 2007 Texans and he aint winning 12 games, hell he might not even have topped Gary. It takes time to correct what Casserly and Capers did. Honestly who was here in 2007 besides Andre and a solid crop of Rookies? I can't think of anyone, but I'm thinking there was no running game since DD was hurt, sacks galore, HWWNBN, a defense thats only talent was getting long in the tooth. The ST was probably the only bright spot.

Let's be honest Kubes can piss you off sometimes, but if we had a solid D Coordinator from day one, this would probably be Houston's 3rd or 4th season in the playoffs. Kubes deserves criticism for the friends and family approach to hiring, "thats on him", but look what a difference one piece to the puzzle made. Injuries are part of the game and everyone has them, but if we had lost just half the key guys for games or part of the year and we'd be kicking the door in on the playoffs. Opponents would be damn near scared sh*tless of playing Houston right now.

ObsiWan
12-22-2011, 06:00 AM
For the record, I don't hate Kubiak. My personal reasons has nothing to do with hate.

I'm sure this makes perfect sense to you. Please try to understand some of us may find it difficult to understand.

This is speculative. The 2011 draft was really no different than any draft since 2006. High character guys, team leaders..... defense heavy, which is probably the main reason Wade was able to turn the defense around so fast.

& you attribute that directly with Harbaugh? People were thinking Cushing was one-&-done, a product of steroids.... he's now leading the team in tackles, some saying he's the best LB in the game.

We took Cincinnati's "other" corner & he's having an all-pro season.

If you want to go offensively, "people" are talking about Chris Myers like he'll be an All-Pro, this "no-name" offensive line is regarded as the best in the league (by some) (San Francisco has 3 first rounders on their OL; Staley, Iupati, Davis. Plus they have a first rounder in Michael Crabtree, & Vernon Davis.

Oh yeah, Alex Smith was a first overall pick.

Then We've got an Undrafted free agent as our leading rusher (& starting RG until recently).


Like I said, I have no problem giving the award to Harbaugh, I think he is more deserving. I just don't undertand thinking Kubiak doesn't belong in the conversation....

Fangio, Aldon Smith, Patrick Willis has just as much to do with Harbaugh's success as Wade, Joseph, & Cushing.

M.S.R.

Look, last year the AP CotY award went to Belicheat ...with spygate still relatively fresh in folk's memory banks. Why? 14-2 is why. Even though Raheem Morris turned a sucky Tampa Bay team into a winner with far less talent. and it ain't like Belichick was handicapped at QB...

By that same thinking - from those same folks - McCarthy, should GB finish with a 15-1 record, could still win over Harbaugh with the best record in all of football.

But, as I said earlier, I wouldn't be surprised if Harbaugh won.

thunderkyss
12-22-2011, 08:27 AM
Injuries are part of the game and everyone has them, but if we had lost just half the key guys for games or part of the year and we'd be kicking the door in on the playoffs. Opponents would be damn near scared sh*tless of playing Houston right now.

Two things I have concluded because of our season.

1) Frank Bush is an idiut. The 2009 defense was spectacular in my mind. We played on the offensive line's side of the LOS more than the other team did. We saw all that talent we had doing what they were brought here to do.

Then in 2010, we questioned that talent because those same guys were asked to play on their heels. We saw spurts of 2009, when the game looked lost & our backs were against the wall. The defense would shut the other team out & allow our offense to get back in the game.

We saw it time & time again, but he never made the decision to play "our style" of football for 4 Qtrs. & Gary never made him.

All because they wanted to protect a rookie.

Wade, not so much. He throws them out there, rookie or not, doesn't change a thing. We play an aggressive style of defense....... PERIOD!!

Doesn't matter who is out there, they sink or swim.

2) I think that has rubbed off on Kubiak. We're not trimming the play-book for Tj Yates. he's going to sink or swim. The goal is the same, win games, & we're not going to do that playing safe & protecting rookies.

.

Dutchrudder
12-22-2011, 02:22 PM
M.S.R.

Look, last year the AP CotY award went to Belicheat ...with spygate still relatively fresh in folk's memory banks. Why? 14-2 is why. Even though Raheem Morris turned a sucky Tampa Bay team into a winner with far less talent. and it ain't like Belichick was handicapped at QB...

By that same thinking - from those same folks - McCarthy, should GB finish with a 15-1 record, could still win over Harbaugh with the best record in all of football.

But, as I said earlier, I wouldn't be surprised if Harbaugh won.

Raheem Morris got the 2nd most votes last year:

Belicheck 30
Morris 11.5
Todd Haley 4.5

Edit:(People are allowed to split their votes?? odd...)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81e139ee/article/patriots-belichick-is-aps-nfl-coach-of-the-year-for-third-time

But that's what I was getting at a while ago, the voters love regular season domination and turnaround stories. Right now the 49ers have 1 game on us with the Hawks and Rams left. They will likely be 13-3 at the end of the year in their 1st season with a new head coach and a 7 game upswing. I predict either Harbaugh or McCarthy will get it and Kubiak will get 3rd place.

ObsiWan
12-22-2011, 03:43 PM
Raheem Morris got the 2nd most votes last year:

Belicheck 30
Morris 11.5
Todd Haley 4.5

Edit:(People are allowed to split their votes?? odd...)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81e139ee/article/patriots-belichick-is-aps-nfl-coach-of-the-year-for-third-time

But that's what I was getting at a while ago, the voters love regular season domination and turnaround stories. Right now the 49ers have 1 game on us with the Hawks and Rams left. They will likely be 13-3 at the end of the year in their 1st season with a new head coach and a 7 game upswing. I predict either Harbaugh or McCarthy will get it and Kubiak will get 3rd place.

agreed
:cowboy1:

ChampionTexan
12-22-2011, 04:07 PM
Raheem Morris got the 2nd most votes last year:

Belicheck 30
Morris 11.5
Todd Haley 4.5

Edit:(People are allowed to split their votes?? odd...)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81e139ee/article/patriots-belichick-is-aps-nfl-coach-of-the-year-for-third-time

But that's what I was getting at a while ago, the voters love regular season domination and turnaround stories. Right now the 49ers have 1 game on us with the Hawks and Rams left. They will likely be 13-3 at the end of the year in their 1st season with a new head coach and a 7 game upswing. I predict either Harbaugh or McCarthy will get it and Kubiak will get 3rd place.

So one of the three top finishers couldn't even make it through the following season, and a second is on thin ice and may or may not be back in 2012?

:thinking:

ObsiWan
12-22-2011, 04:55 PM
So one of the three top finishers couldn't even make it through the following season, and a second is on thin ice and may or may not be back in 2012?

:thinking:

I think the phrase is "going from sugar to sh..."
:rake:

thunderkyss
12-23-2011, 12:22 AM
I think Kubiak has moved up a notch, we're one game closer to the Super Bowl.

Ghostform
12-23-2011, 02:27 PM
I thought it was appropriate to bring this thread back up :kitten:

badboy
12-27-2011, 02:24 PM
Yeah, rats are leaving ship and I may be one of them if we lose to Tenn and the first round. I think we lose first then win the second

Hervoyel
12-27-2011, 02:40 PM
I think Kubiak definitely deserves consideration.

However, I do understand the argument here. Kubiak & Rick Smith didn't go too far outside their circle of friends when they attempted to fill the DC position. They didn't bring Greg Williams in for a talk. They didn't bring Nolan in for a talk.

They brought Frank Bush in 2008, but didn't get rid of Richard Smith until 2009, then automatically promoted Bush while presenting a weak attempt to look outside the organization.

As far as anyone knows, Kubiak & Rick Smith did not reach out to Wade Phillips. McNair did & McNair landed him.

So, I do understand fans not giving Kubiak credit for the defense (even though the majority of the ingredients were already here, even though the draft looked just like any Kubiak/Smith draft since 2007). I don't agree, but I understand.

From what I gather, the way Kubiak & Smith talk, every decision is a decision agreed upon by a certain group. Sometimes it's Smith, Kubiak, McNair & Cal. Sometimes it's Kubiak & his coaching staff. But it is rarely ever just Kubiak's decision for this, or Smith's decision for that. By that same token, I do not buy it was McNair's decision to bring in Wade. I think they all came to the conclusion that we would have a great team with Wade running the defense. Kubiak's job may have been held as leverage, I don't know, but it is plausible.


I think it's ridiculous to even entertain the notion that he should be considered. He's been the coach here for 6 years (in one more game) and is just now backing his way into the playoffs for the first time.

That's not the whole story though. He gets a pass in year one because he took over a 2-14 team which he immediately added four wins to.That's about right in my eyes. This was followed by 8-8. 8-8. 9-7, and 6-10.

Why?

Because we had no defense. Why did we have no defense? Because we had no defensive coordinator. Why did we have no defensive coordinator?

Because your coach of the year candidate couldn't tell shit from shinola. Four years of Andre Johnson's career (among others) wasted playing on half a team. Can anyone honestly say that we would be just now getting to the playoffs if we'd hired a legitimate defensive coordinator from the start instead of Richard Smith followed by Frank Bush?

What do those 8-8 seasons look like (or the 9-7 season) if we could have stopped anybody..... ever? 10-6? 11-5?

No. This man is no coach of the year candidate. Wade Phillips has done the kind of job you reward with that kind of award but not Gary Kubiak. He's just now finding a nut after dicking around the yard for half a decade. He took the Texans from 2-14 to 6-10 in one year. If he'd won the division the next year or even made the playoffs as a wild card then sure, he'd deserve consideration. He doesn't get consideration for this after his boss (who has been in professional football for all of 9 years) has to go find him a real DC because Gary doesn't know what one looks like.

Double Barrel
12-27-2011, 04:32 PM
Nobody should ever be considered CotY if they let their 10 win team set a brand new stinking NFL record by losing to a 1 win team. Good job, Gary. Congrats on another record feather for your hat.