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View Full Version : Resign Leach or Elite WR 2?


mugrakers
07-15-2011, 07:20 PM
So the basic Idea is that if we can only afford to resign Leach or sign a bonafide number 2 receiver. Someone like Santonio Holmes to play opposite AJ. Which way would you go?

ATXtexanfan
07-15-2011, 07:23 PM
wr #2, full back is a dinosaur, to be honest bring in a few wrs

DocBar
07-15-2011, 07:24 PM
So the basic Idea is that if we can only afford to resign Leach or sign a bonafide number 2 receiver. Someone like Santonio Holmes to play opposite AJ. Which way would you go? You're gonna have to do better than Santonio Holmes if you want a bona fide #2 WR. Holmes wouldn't be rd on our depth chart and maybe not even 4th. Now if it came down to a healthy Steve Breaston or Leach, I might pause. Then I would sign Leach and hope like hell Dorin Dickerson puts it together this year.

Allstar
07-15-2011, 07:48 PM
You know I wonder if the fact that we slash our 1st round pick price in half will allow us to spend that extra money on Leach and still have the same flexibility as we always would have any other year...

ArlingtonTexan
07-15-2011, 07:50 PM
You're gonna have to do better than Santonio Holmes if you want a bona fide #2 WR. Holmes wouldn't be rd on our depth chart and maybe not even 4th. Now if it came down to a healthy Steve Breaston or Leach, I might pause. Then I would sign Leach and hope like hell Dorin Dickerson puts it together this year.

Santonio Holmes is a number 1 Wr for at least 12-15 teams in the NFL. He is not coming here because someone is going to pay him a lot of money to be their top dog. The other reason he won't be here that Holmes is not a good guy. Santonio Holmes as a number 2 WR makes this unit top 5, if not the top duo in the NFL.

thetexanator
07-15-2011, 07:56 PM
holmes v. leach at same price??? id take holmes.

SheTexan
07-15-2011, 08:05 PM
Leach!! Without him Foster is toast! JMO! We need our running game to STAY strong, not get weak AGAIN!!!

m5kwatts
07-15-2011, 08:07 PM
The free agent WR market doesn't excite me. I'd rather make go with what we have, see what Dickerson has to offer, and next year spend a 1st round pick on a WR when there's like 7-8 1st round caliber studs.

Re-sign Leach and put to bed any worries of the running game dropping off.

DocBar
07-15-2011, 08:11 PM
Santonio Holmes (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/413021/santonio-holmes) a #1 receiver on how many teams? Put down the :koolaid: and step away from the keyboard. The dude has had one good year and the rest are pretty pedestrian. Leach brings more to the table IMO.
I'd rather not find out if one of our reserve TE's cab play FB. I KNOW Leach can and he's one of the best at it.

GlassHalfFull
07-15-2011, 08:16 PM
Leach. Down field blocking is awesome.

Don't fall for the glitz. Stay in the trenches.

Texan_Bill
07-15-2011, 08:17 PM
Leach!! Without him Foster is toast! JMO! We need our running game to STAY strong, not get weak AGAIN!!!

Never, ever overpay for a FB... Do I think Vonta is a beast? YES! Do I love watching Vonta absolutely blow people up? YES!!! That said, FB is a position that it's a bad, bad move to overpay for...

2slik4u
07-15-2011, 08:35 PM
You're gonna have to do better than Santonio Holmes if you want a bona fide #2 WR. Holmes wouldn't be rd on our depth chart and maybe not even 4th. Now if it came down to a healthy Steve Breaston or Leach, I might pause. Then I would sign Leach and hope like hell Dorin Dickerson puts it together this year.

Breaston over Holmes?

I disagree.....big time. I would do it for Holmes.

2slik4u
07-15-2011, 08:37 PM
The free agent WR market doesn't excite me. I'd rather make go with what we have, see what Dickerson has to offer, and next year spend a 1st round pick on a WR when there's like 7-8 1st round caliber studs.

Re-sign Leach and put to bed any worries of the running game dropping off.

Yeah, not to mention we are going to be at the end of the first round next year too...I mean, deep playoff runs do that to you...

ArlingtonTexan
07-15-2011, 08:44 PM
Santonio Holmes (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/413021/santonio-holmes) a #1 receiver on how many teams? Put down the :koolaid: and step away from the keyboard. The dude has had one good year and the rest are pretty pedestrian. Leach brings more to the table IMO.
I'd rather not find out if one of our reserve TE's cab play FB. I KNOW Leach can and he's one of the best at it.

Whether you think it or not

1) His peers think he is top 100 player in the league

http://top100.nfl.com/

2) He will sign for Number 1 money in the NFL

See me in a couple of weeks

3) I will take his 9/131 game winning Superbowl performance and take my chances over Walter and Jacoby

I have already outlined why he won't be a Texan, and it is not because of his pure skill and talent.

badboy
07-15-2011, 08:49 PM
Leach hands down. We have #1 RB with a probowl blocker devastating people in front of him; why break that up? It can be improved but I am ok with AJ/Walter and probably JJ. Throw in OD and Dreesen with Tate and Foster catching out of back field....

CharloTex
07-15-2011, 09:01 PM
How about FA Mike Sims-Walker? He might be had for a reasonable fee and he can stretch the field opposite AJ. Walter could be the blocking/slot/possession receiver. That's perfect in my eye.

VTexan
07-15-2011, 09:05 PM
I'd take a flyer on Sidney Rice. Could pick him up on the cheap and has huge potential as stretching the field for us.

DocBar
07-15-2011, 09:15 PM
Whether you think it or not

1) His peers think he is top 100 player in the league

http://top100.nfl.com/

2) He will sign for Number 1 money in the NFL

See me in a couple of weeks

3) I will take his 9/131 game winning Superbowl performance and take my chances over Walter and Jacoby

I have already outlined why he won't be a Texan, and it is not because of his pure skill and talent. Are you seriously using the Top 100 silliness and a good SB performance to justify saying Holmes is #1 receiver material? That's funny. The Top 100 nonsense is no more accurate than fan voting for evaluating talent. Holmes has had some good games, but so has just about every other player in the NFL. He might sign for #1 money, but that doesn't always equal out to #1 talent or production. Just look at the many FA busts out there if you need further proof.

beerlover
07-15-2011, 09:33 PM
Depends on the WR. Vincent Jackson over Sidney Rice. Leach over rest of field.

Rey
07-15-2011, 09:36 PM
I'd take a flyer on Sidney Rice. Could pick him up on the cheap and has huge potential as stretching the field for us.

I know someone will post stats to prove otherwise, but this isn't a stretch the field offense. I'm pretty sure we pick up great yardage through the air, but we don't really run a lot of fly routes.

We run a lot of post routes and deep ins, but we rarely ask a receiver to outrun the guy holding him and let Matt throw it up to them and the fastest guy wins.

I think jacoby could probably do that, Aj too. But that isn't our offense and that isn't our qb's strong suit.

badboy
07-15-2011, 10:17 PM
I know someone will post stats to prove otherwise, but this isn't a stretch the field offense. I'm pretty sure we pick up great yardage through the air, but we don't really run a lot of fly routes.

We run a lot of post routes and deep ins, but we rarely ask a receiver to outrun the guy holding him and let Matt throw it up to them and the fastest guy wins.

I think jacoby could probably do that, Aj too. But that isn't our offense and that isn't our qb's strong suit.I'd like to see mopre of that myself especially with Trindon Holliday's speed If he only caught 30 % of paases thrown deep to him, the DC would have to account for him opening AJ.

ArlingtonTexan
07-15-2011, 10:33 PM
Are you seriously using the Top 100 silliness and a good SB performance to justify saying Holmes is #1 receiver material? That's funny. The Top 100 nonsense is no more accurate than fan voting for evaluating talent. Holmes has had some good games, but so has just about every other player in the NFL. He might sign for #1 money, but that doesn't always equal out to #1 talent or production. Just look at the many FA busts out there if you need further proof.

I don't know, when both players and GMs think a guy is a quality NFL player, I am going to listen to them over a guy typing on the internet (starting with myself).

If you don't understand that Holmes is better than Jacoby, Walter or Breaston, it is not a good starting point for a discussion. Even if I am overrating him and he is a knucklehead, Holmes is a legitimate NFL starting NFL WR who has made big plays in big situations. and yes teams like the Rams, Jags, Browns, etc would love to be running him out as their number 1. He is the perfect WR2 (see above average yard per catch in conservative offenses).

Nothing more for me to add to this one.

DocBar
07-15-2011, 10:52 PM
I don't know, when both players and GMs think a guy is a quality NFL player, I am going to listen to them over a guy typing on the internet (starting with myself).

If you don't understand that Holmes is better than Jacoby, Walter or Breaston, it is not a good starting point for a discussion. Even if I am overrating him and he is a knucklehead, Holmes is a legitimate NFL starting NFL WR who has made big plays in big situations. and yes teams like the Rams, Jags, Browns, etc would love to be running him out as their number 1. He is the perfect WR2 (see above average yard per catch in conservative offenses).

Nothing more for me to add to this one.ROFL....fair enough, my friend. We can just disagree on this one. :fingergun:

Lucky
07-15-2011, 10:55 PM
If you don't understand that Holmes is better than Jacoby, Walter or Breaston, it is not a good starting point for a discussion.
Since 2006, Holmes has had (9) games of 100+ receiving yards. That's not counting his Super Bowl MVP performance. Walter, Jones, and Breaston have combined for the same amount (9) over the same period. So, it's a no-brainer that Holmes is much better than what the Texans currently have, or what's available in the 2nd tier of free agency.

Forget the character issues for a moment. Would the Texans get the most out of Santonio Holmes? With AJ, Foster, and Daniels, the Texans already have a wealth of offensive weapons. And Schaub's forte isn't throwing downfield. I think Holmes has more value to other teams, and that's a legit reason he wouldn't wind up in Houston. Mix in the character issues, and he just doesn't make sense here.

And why is it Leach vs WR2? Leach will get nowhere near the $$$ that Holmes will pull. The premise of the thread is flawed. Elite WR2 or #1 CB? That's the legit tradeoff. And the answer should be obvious to anyone who watches the Texans on a semi-regular basis.

ObsiWan
07-15-2011, 11:21 PM
The ladies, SheTexan & GlassHalfFull, have nailed it. If this is truly a run-first offense then you do what is necessary to keep the running game strong. Re-sign Leach.

Can Santonio Holmes run block? Our WRs have to do that in this offense.

Leach brings positive chemistry to the locker room. I've a feeling that Holmes would bring unnecessary diva-type drama. Leach is a known and solid commodity. Holmes is a risky investment at best.
just my :twocents:

having said all that, I'm not sure why this needs to be an either/or situation anyway

Big Lou
07-15-2011, 11:35 PM
Whether you think it or not

1) His peers think he is top 100 player in the league

http://top100.nfl.com/

2) He will sign for Number 1 money in the NFL

See me in a couple of weeks

3) I will take his 9/131 game winning Superbowl performance and take my chances over Walter and Jacoby

I have already outlined why he won't be a Texan, and it is not because of his pure skill and talent.



As for that Top 100 thing I wouldn't put too much weight in it. They have Holmes in front of Dallas Clark. I'd take Clark over Holmes any day. Besides Ray Lewis in the top 10 really, really?


What is with all the Walter hate these days. He had a down this year, but he's still solid. I'd rather have Leach and Walter, over Holmes anyday. If OD is back healthy, Walter will be over 750 yards this year.


PS: I'll take Breaston in a heartbeat. Hell I'd rather give Sims-Walker a look over Holmes, we had 2 guys miss 4 games last year for various substance related reasons, we don't need him in the mix.

TheMatrix31
07-16-2011, 03:26 AM
Leach is critical.

nero THE zero
07-16-2011, 04:43 AM
Since 2006, Holmes has had (9) games of 100+ receiving yards. That's not counting his Super Bowl MVP performance. Walter, Jones, and Breaston have combined for the same amount (9) over the same period. So, it's a no-brainer that Holmes is much better than what the Texans currently have, or what's available in the 2nd tier of free agency.

Forget the character issues for a moment. Would the Texans get the most out of Santonio Holmes? With AJ, Foster, and Daniels, the Texans already have a wealth of offensive weapons. And Schaub's forte isn't throwing downfield. I think Holmes has more value to other teams, and that's a legit reason he wouldn't wind up in Houston. Mix in the character issues, and he just doesn't make sense here.

And why is it Leach vs WR2? Leach will get nowhere near the $$$ that Holmes will pull. The premise of the thread is flawed. Elite WR2 or #1 CB? That's the legit tradeoff. And the answer should be obvious to anyone who watches the Texans on a semi-regular basis.
I think when evaluating the small, quick WR (i.e. Steve Smith, Santonio Holmes) you constantly underrate their yards after catch ability. Obviously Schaub will have problems constantly hitting them downfield in stride, but their value to us is the short to mid range game and their ability to make plays with the ball in their hands. We don't currently have that guy on our team. 'Dre can do it, but he'd better using his size and physicality.

We could use a guy that can make people miss.

Wolf6151
07-16-2011, 06:41 AM
Leach vs. Elite #2 WR, I'd take Leach. Few things work well on this team and we're in no position to start F'n with something that works. Don't be stupid, if it works don't screw with it.

TexansSeminole
07-16-2011, 08:55 AM
You're gonna have to do better than Santonio Holmes if you want a bona fide #2 WR. Holmes wouldn't be rd on our depth chart and maybe not even 4th. Now if it came down to a healthy Steve Breaston or Leach, I might pause. Then I would sign Leach and hope like hell Dorin Dickerson puts it together this year.

Steve Breaston more valuable than Santonio Holmes? What are you smoking? Santonio Holmes is one of the top playmaking receivers in this league.

steelbtexan
07-16-2011, 10:46 AM
Give me Plax and Atari Bigby with the Leach $$$$.

While I appreciate what Leach does I believe Casey will do a good job in his place. Plus you get to fill 2 major holes on this team by letting Leach walk. (WR.2 and SS)

Not in the Leach case, but in other cases people over value some players already on the Texans roster. (See Pollard, DA, Slaton etc...) These guys are very replaceable.

Corrosion
07-16-2011, 02:26 PM
The ladies, SheTexan & GlassHalfFull, have nailed it. If this is truly a run-first offense then you do what is necessary to keep the running game strong. Re-sign Leach.

Can Santonio Holmes run block? Our WRs have to do that in this offense.

Leach brings positive chemistry to the locker room. I've a feeling that Holmes would bring unnecessary diva-type drama. Leach is a known and solid commodity. Holmes is a risky investment at best.
just my :twocents:

having said all that, I'm not sure why this needs to be an either/or situation anyway

Im with Obi and the girls ..... This is a game of inches won in the trenches.

DocBar
07-16-2011, 03:06 PM
Steve Breaston more valuable than Santonio Holmes? What are you smoking? Santonio Holmes is one of the top playmaking receivers in this league.So is Breaston when healthy and having a QB with a pulse to deliver the ball.

Lucky
07-16-2011, 03:57 PM
We could use a guy that can make people miss.
Jacoby Jones yards after catch average (4.9 YAC) is comparable to Holmes career average of 5.5 YAC.

El Tejano
07-16-2011, 05:12 PM
I know someone will post stats to prove otherwise, but this isn't a stretch the field offense. I'm pretty sure we pick up great yardage through the air, but we don't really run a lot of fly routes.

We run a lot of post routes and deep ins, but we rarely ask a receiver to outrun the guy holding him and let Matt throw it up to them and the fastest guy wins.

I think jacoby could probably do that, Aj too. But that isn't our offense and that isn't our qb's strong suit.

Eddie George with Lorenzo Neal = Awesome ground game that noone could stop.

Eddie George with no Lorenzo Neal = eventually went to play for the Dallas Cowboys and we haven't heard from him since.

Do the right thing, pay the man who has not only helped Foster look good but Steve Slaton and even Ryan Moats got to look like a stud every now and then. AJ can make any new WR we get (Steve Breaston) look pretty awesome.

gary
07-16-2011, 05:25 PM
The money is there to do both in my book.

TexansSeminole
07-16-2011, 06:02 PM
So is Breaston when healthy and having a QB with a pulse to deliver the ball.

Steve Breaston 2006-2010: 8 TDs, 13.51 YPC

Santonio Holmes 2006-2010: 24 TDs, 15.78 YPC

That's just regular season.

Postseason stats are as follows:

Steve Breaston 2006-2010 (6 games): 1 TD, 13.54 YPC

Santonio Holmes 2006-2010 (7 games): 6 TDs, 16.08 YPC

Breaston is the same type of player as Santonio, but not nearly as effective in my opinion. I don't think they are even in the same conversation. Santonio Holmes makes plays that end up in touchdowns and he does it in big situations.

Dutchrudder
07-16-2011, 07:58 PM
So is Breaston when healthy and having a QB with a pulse to deliver the ball.

I think you're wrong, but feel free to find some stats that support your claim.

DocBar
07-16-2011, 09:57 PM
I think you're wrong, but feel free to find some stats that support your claim.Steve Breaston (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/407024/steve-breaston) has had 1 good QB throwing to him and played behind Fitzgerald and Bolden. He has a reputation as a selfless player, tireless worker and great teammate. It's hard to imagine anyone having decent stats on a team like this (http://www.nfl.com/teams/arizonacardinals/statistics?team=ARI).
Look at how much AJ (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnAn02.htm) struggled when HWWNBN was throwing him the ball. He's the best receiver in football and he had a rough time with a poor QB.
Here (http://arizonasports.com/category/cardinals-articles/20110613/Steve-Breaston-is-an-underrated-wide-receiver/), and here (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=6648025) are some links that show he has good value.
Let's not forget that Holmes didn't put up eye-popping numbers despite being on a pass happy Pittsburgh team. I think some are going off of name recognition and watch too much ESPN.

Norg
07-16-2011, 10:37 PM
We don't Need a freaking #2 wr right now what we need is help on d

TexansSeminole
07-16-2011, 11:18 PM
Steve Breaston (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/407024/steve-breaston) has had 1 good QB throwing to him and played behind Fitzgerald and Bolden. He has a reputation as a selfless player, tireless worker and great teammate. It's hard to imagine anyone having decent stats on a team like this (http://www.nfl.com/teams/arizonacardinals/statistics?team=ARI).
Look at how much AJ (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnAn02.htm) struggled when HWWNBN was throwing him the ball. He's the best receiver in football and he had a rough time with a poor QB.
Here (http://arizonasports.com/category/cardinals-articles/20110613/Steve-Breaston-is-an-underrated-wide-receiver/), and here (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=6648025) are some links that show he has good value.


Steve Breaston is not a bad receiver, he should be considered for a fair WR2 salary.

Let's not forget that Holmes didn't put up eye-popping numbers despite being on a pass happy Pittsburgh team.

He had a 1,200 yard season in 2009. He was first or second for the Steelers in receiving yards and 20+ yard receptions from his rookie year in 2007 through 2009. Hines Ward is no slouch and the 1-2 punch he and Holmes provided was deadly. Cleary, as they won the Super Bowl in 2009.

He put up some good numbers there, even with Hines Ward, Heath Miller, Mike Wallace, and Nate Washington competing for catches.

I think some are going off of name recognition and watch too much ESPN.

I am not going off name recognition. I've seen him make play, after play, after play...

As ArlingtonTexan said, Holmes will go for #1 money. He will most likely get the best contract for a WR, as he is the youngest playmaker of the free agent group.

The Texans need to focus on getting one of the top 4 cornerbacks: Nnamdi, Joseph, Cromartie, or Ike Taylor. We will also need to sign atleast one other experienced and competent secondary player. After that, if we have money, then we can use it on a playmaker on offense. After we resign our key players, including Leach.

beerlover
07-16-2011, 11:44 PM
I am not going off name recognition. /

say it ain't so. not on this board :ahhaha:

steelbtexan
07-16-2011, 11:49 PM
Who else thinks Casey can do a fine job blocking and add a new denension to the offense in the passing game.

BTW, I love how Leach plays the game (Physical) But Casey can be a reasonable facsimile. IMHO

beerlover
07-16-2011, 11:51 PM
Who else thinks Casey can do a fine job blocking and add a new denension to the offense in the passing game.

BTW, I love how Leach plays the game (Physical) But Casey can be a reasonable facsimile. IMHO

Casey has some durability concerns that would make that move risky in my viewpoint.

ArlingtonTexan
07-17-2011, 12:09 AM
Who else thinks Casey can do a fine job blocking and add a new denension to the offense in the passing game.

BTW, I love how Leach plays the game (Physical) But Casey can be a reasonable facsimile. IMHO

I think those two guys would be different types of FBs. Leach is a really physical guy who catche a pass here or there, but is a blocker first. Casey would be more position style blocker who can catch and run above what most FBs do in the NFL.

Honestly, I have not made up my mind if Leach is so good that the Texans "can't do w/o him"

TexansSeminole
07-17-2011, 12:14 AM
I think those two guys would be different types of FBs. Leach is a really physical guy who catche a pass here or there, but is a blocker first. Casey would be more position style blocker who can catch and run above what most FBs do in the NFL.

Honestly, I have not made up my mind if Leach is so good that the Texans "can't do w/o him"

I like having Leach. He gives us a physical presence that no other FB in the league provides IMO. We could do without him, but how are we going to get to the Superbowl letting our advantages go?

Casey has value on this offense, especially if someone gets hurt and we are forced to rely on creating new ways to move the chains, etc. He can play TE (slot) and FB.

DocBar
07-17-2011, 12:35 AM
Steve Breaston is not a bad receiver, he should be considered for a fair WR2 salary.
We're talking about a #2 WR. I hope we're not looking to over pay a #2 WR with #1Wr money when we already have the best receiver in football.


He had a 1,200 yard season in 2009. He was first or second for the Steelers in receiving yards and 20+ yard receptions from his rookie year in 2007 through 2009. Hines Ward is no slouch and the 1-2 punch he and Holmes provided was deadly. Cleary, as they won the Super Bowl in 2009. Breaston had a 1,000 yd season behind Fitzgerald and Boldin. Both of those guys are head and shoulders above anyone the Steelers have fielded since Stallworth and Swann. The year Holmes led the Steelers in yds, he didn't crack 1,000.
He put up some good numbers there, even with Hines Ward, Heath Miller, Mike Wallace, and Nate Washington competing for catches.Now you can argue that the Steelers had a lot of weapons. What do you think the Cards had when Warner was tossing the ball? I guess you would say Fitz and Boldin aren't slouches, either. Talk about getting the lion's share of the touches.




I am not going off name recognition. I've seen him make play, after play, after play...

As ArlingtonTexan said, Holmes will go for #1 money. He will most likely get the best contract for a WR, as he is the youngest playmaker of the free agent group.

The Texans need to focus on getting one of the top 4 cornerbacks: Nnamdi, Joseph, Cromartie, or Ike Taylor. We will also need to sign atleast one other experienced and competent secondary player. After that, if we have money, then we can use it on a playmaker on offense. After we resign our key players, including Leach.
My point exactly is you could very well land Leach and Breaston and dramatically improve our #2 WR spot while keeping our battering ram. You won't find Breaston running sloppy routes or dropping routine passes.

TexansSeminole
07-17-2011, 01:01 AM
Breaston had a 1,000 yd season behind Fitzgerald and Boldin. Both of those guys are head and shoulders above anyone the Steelers have fielded since Stallworth and Swann. The year Holmes led the Steelers in yds, he didn't crack 1,000.

Holmes led the Steelers in receiving yards in 2007 with 942 and in 2009 with 1,248. Hines Ward also had 1,167 in 2009. What's the beef with Santonio Holmes? I'm not advocating we spend the money to get him, just that he is one of the better playmaking WRs in the league.

My point exactly is you could very well land Leach and Breaston and dramatically improve our #2 WR spot while keeping our battering ram. You won't find Breaston running sloppy routes or dropping routine passes.

I wouldn't be opposed to that if we can get some key defensive players.

badboy
07-17-2011, 09:33 PM
The free agency selections like our recent draft should overwhelmingly focus on defense imo. This is the year we can make huge gains in both team roster and fan approval. Git er done!

Allstar
07-17-2011, 11:12 PM
I'm a little puzzled by your lack of faith in Holmes, Doc. He isn't Andre Johnson, but he is a legit threat down the field and widely considered light years ahead of anyone else in the free agent market.

El Tejano
07-18-2011, 12:42 PM
Again, IMO, if we don't sign Leach - Foster gets Eddie George'd!

Second Honeymoon
07-18-2011, 01:19 PM
Never, ever overpay for a FB... Do I think Vonta is a beast? YES! Do I love watching Vonta absolutely blow people up? YES!!! That said, FB is a position that it's a bad, bad move to overpay for...

agreed. we need $ to improve the defense. we can find someone who can help at FB. let him go to a team that may be closer to winning and is more run-oriented. Ravens, Jets, Bears, or someone like that.

We CAN NOT afford to spend huge money at FB especially with the coming salary cap rule changes. Lots of teams are going to need to add payroll and chances are Leach will get some very rich offers. Some teams are going to be forced to add upwards of 40 or 50 million in payroll under assumed terms. Those teams will be very active and may be more willing to overpay for quality. Traditionally inactive FA players like the Bills, Bengals, Browns, Jags, etc. will be forced to sign FAs and re-sign existing players to lucrative contracts just to meet the minimum salary cap requirement.

Now what you hope is that some of the higher salary teams have to jettison quality players thus increasing the FA pond's stock. I really think these proposed new rules will inflate FA contracts this year. I'll pay an inflated market rate for a DB but a FB? not so sure.

I hope Smith is prepared. I hope McNair and Kubiak are prepared. These next 6 weeks are going to go a long way to determining our team's future. And to say the new rules favor teams that draft well is an understatement.

DocBar
07-18-2011, 01:33 PM
agreed. we need $ to improve the defense. we can find someone who can help at FB. let him go to a team that may be closer to winning and is more run-oriented. Ravens, Jets, Bears, or someone like that.

We CAN NOT afford to spend huge money at FB especially with the coming salary cap rule changes. Lots of teams are going to need to add payroll and chances are Leach will get some very rich offers. Some teams are going to be forced to add upwards of 40 or 50 million in payroll under assumed terms. Those teams will be very active and may be more willing to overpay for quality. Traditionally inactive FA players like the Bills, Bengals, Browns, Jags, etc. will be forced to sign FAs and re-sign existing players to lucrative contracts just to meet the minimum salary cap requirement.

Now what you hope is that some of the higher salary teams have to jettison quality players thus increasing the FA pond's stock. I really think these proposed new rules will inflate FA contracts this year. I'll pay an inflated market rate for a DB but a FB? not so sure.

I hope Smith is prepared. I hope McNair and Kubiak are prepared. These next 6 weeks are going to go a long way to determining our team's future. And to say the new rules favor teams that draft well is an understatement. What do you consider huge money for a pro bowl FB who just led the way for the NFL rushing champion? What would you reconsider as huge money if we don't sign him and the Texans have a subpar year running the football? I'm not talking about breaking the bank for Leach, but I do want the Texans to put an honest effort into re-signing him.

Second Honeymoon
07-18-2011, 01:51 PM
What do you consider huge money for a pro bowl FB who just led the way for the NFL rushing champion? What would you reconsider as huge money if we don't sign him and the Texans have a subpar year running the football? I'm not talking about breaking the bank for Leach, but I do want the Texans to put an honest effort into re-signing him.

so do I. I just don't want to invest too much of our efforts in a position that isn't as essential as your secondary. He is going to have to take a slight discount to stay based on the offers that I assume he will get from under cap teams with a need at FB.

I love Leach but paying a top FB top RB money may not be smart especially considering we still have yet to pay Foster. There are alot of good FBs out there that could fit our system. As good as Leach? Probably not, but he would also cost about 1/10th of Leach. Leaving the remaining 9/10 to more seriously pursue needs at positions far more critical than FB.

I do get what you are saying, and you just want to reward a good player. 9 times out of 10 I would agree, but it being about a FB changes that for me.

As for the original question. I would rather have Santonio Holmes over Leach. Without question. Leach or Braylon Edwards? Closer to call but still probably Edwards. I think he could be incredible if some of AJ's work ethic and professionalism rubbed off on him. Braylon has game and isn't a bad guy. In fact, he hated on LeBron LONG before it was fashionable. It got him run out of town....i am sure he was really sad going from Cleveland to New York and 2 straight AFC Championship Games.

I hope we can sign Leach and sign quality help for our secondary and defense, in general.

DocBar
07-18-2011, 02:00 PM
so do I. I just don't want to invest too much of our efforts in a position that isn't as essential as your secondary. He is going to have to take a slight discount to stay based on the offers that I assume he will get from under cap teams with a need at FB.

I love Leach but paying a top FB top RB money may not be smart especially considering we still have yet to pay Foster. There are alot of good FBs out there that could fit our system. As good as Leach? Probably not, but he would also cost about 1/10th of Leach. Leaving the remaining 9/10 to more seriously pursue needs at positions far more critical than FB.

I do get what you are saying, and you just want to reward a good player. 9 times out of 10 I would agree, but it being about a FB changes that for me.

As for the original question. I would rather have Santonio Holmes over Leach. Without question. Leach or Braylon Edwards? Closer to call but still probably Edwards. I think he could be incredible if some of AJ's work ethic and professionalism rubbed off on him. Braylon has game and isn't a bad guy. In fact, he hated on LeBron LONG before it was fashionable. It got him run out of town....i am sure he was really sad going from Cleveland to New York and 2 straight AFC Championship Games.

I hope we can sign Leach and sign quality help for our secondary and defense, in general. I think Leach is looking for around the $4 mil a year range. That's hardly top RB money. If we sign Braylon Edwards, I'm becoming a Saints fan until Smithiak is fired. There's no way in hell I want his bricks dropping Schaubs passes. We get enough of that with JJ.

Double Barrel
07-18-2011, 02:10 PM
Leach!! Without him Foster is toast! JMO! We need our running game to STAY strong, not get weak AGAIN!!!

This. Foster would not have won the rushing title without him.

He's another unsung hero of this offense. Do not underestimate his impact. JMO

Texecutioner
07-18-2011, 02:15 PM
You're gonna have to do better than Santonio Holmes if you want a bona fide #2 WR. Holmes wouldn't be rd on our depth chart and maybe not even 4th. Now if it came down to a healthy Steve Breaston or Leach, I might pause. Then I would sign Leach and hope like hell Dorin Dickerson puts it together this year.

You serious with this?? Holmes wouldn't even make a good #2 WR?? Have you ever watched the guy play?? He has been one of the most clutch performing WR's in the entire league the last few years making one huge game breaking play after another at the end of games and even did it to win a SB winning the MVP. He's easily a #1 WR on most teams. He'd be fantastic as a #2 WR and he's light years ahead of guys like Breaston.

Texecutioner
07-18-2011, 02:16 PM
This. Foster would not have won the rushing title without him.

He's another unsung hero of this offense. Do not underestimate his impact. JMO

Agreed. I say resign Leach. I don't know about Foster being toast or anything like that, but he is very big in this offense and the guy on the first page that said that the FB position is one of dinosaurs ask Foster what he feels about that or ask LT how he feels about that after losing his Pro Bowl FB that helped him become one of the beset RB's of all time all those years.

Second Honeymoon
07-18-2011, 02:18 PM
I think Leach is looking for around the $4 mil a year range. That's hardly top RB money. If we sign Braylon Edwards, I'm becoming a Saints fan until Smithiak is fired. There's no way in hell I want his bricks dropping Schaubs passes. We get enough of that with JJ.

Would have no problem with $4 million a year. Just offset the extra cost with a vet minimum backup FB. I think he will be offered more than that with this new deal going down. If you need to add payroll, getting arguably the best FB in league at 5 or 6million may seem like a good proposition. How about him blocking for Gore in San Fran. They aren't going to be able to throw the ball. They are a low salary team that Leach would make sense with. Harbaugh utilizes the FB or at least his coaches did at Stanford.

I think you are being a bit harsh on Edwards. He is an underachiever, no doubt. But put him with AJ and I think you get good bang for the buck if you want a new #2WR. Personally, I could care less about the offense. We move the ball and we score points. We have to address the defense and if it takes taking a step back on offense to take two steps forward on defense, you are at least moving forward as a team.

This defense was an embarassment to the game of football. That it took the end of the season to fire that failure of a hire Bush, is beyond me.

Matt should have been one of the hottest QBs in the league last year with multiple come-from-behind wins but instead we get come-from-ahead losses because of our defense. Matt is fine with what we got. everyone on the team knows the defense is where the problem is.

Whoever we get, we are going to have to overpay for them. Everyone is going to be overpaying to get guys locked up quick due to how much activity there is going to be by teams.

Second Honeymoon
07-18-2011, 02:29 PM
I agree with previous poster that Braylon Edwards makes sense if price is right. He has good return game skills too. Something we need.

Texecutioner
07-18-2011, 02:43 PM
I agree with previous poster that Braylon Edwards makes sense if price is right. He has good return game skills too. Something we need.

When has Braylen ever been a returner??

The dude is just an awful WR. Can't catch to save his life and on top of that he has an ego to go with it. No thanks. I'd rather keep Walter over Edwards any day of the week.

disaacks3
07-18-2011, 02:49 PM
Leach!! Without him Foster is toast! JMO! We need our running game to STAY strong, not get weak AGAIN!!! Yep!

Leach. Down field blocking is awesome.

Don't fall for the glitz. Stay in the trenches. Unless you consider the Texans secondary, the game is "usually" won/lost in the trenches.

Whether you think it or not

1) His peers think he is top 100 player in the league

http://top100.nfl.com/

2) He will sign for Number 1 money in the NFL

See me in a couple of weeks

3) I will take his 9/131 game winning Superbowl performance and take my chances over Walter and Jacoby

I have already outlined why he won't be a Texan, and it is not because of his pure skill and talent. Even THAT list has Leach ranked higher.

Leach hands down. We have #1 RB with a probowl blocker devastating people in front of him; why break that up? It can be improved but I am ok with AJ/Walter and probably JJ. Throw in OD and Dreesen with Tate and Foster catching out of back field.... Heck, why not trade AJ for more depth...who needs the number one guy at his position? :sarcasm:

Doppelganger
07-18-2011, 02:50 PM
Never, ever overpay for a FB... Do I think Vonta is a beast? YES! Do I love watching Vonta absolutely blow people up? YES!!! That said, FB is a position that it's a bad, bad move to overpay for...

Disagree here. Overpaying for a FB is not like overpaying for other positions. At the end of the day, its pretty cheap. Having Leach, opens up the running game which allows the Texans to control the clock and wear down the opposing D. It is psychologically draining as a D to watch a team march down the field by running the ball down your throats. By pounding the ball with multiple backs, we can open up the passing game to AJ, OD, and swing the pass out to Foster. Even if we got a very good #2 WR, they would still be a 3rd or 4th passing option. Leach is also a studly blocker on pass routes and has good enough hands to be a passing target.

For the money it would take Leach makes much more sense than a 3rd or 4th receiving target.

The Pencil Neck
07-18-2011, 03:10 PM
I'm very easy to please.

1) I want Leach re-signed.
2) I want a FA #2 WR brought in and KW moved down to #3 and JJ gone.
3) Although I would prefer Aso, I want at least one of the top 5-6 CBs signed.
4) Although I would prefer Weddle, I would accept one of the top 2-3 SSs.

And I want it all done as soon as FA starts.

Get it done.

Double Barrel
07-18-2011, 03:30 PM
Agreed. I say resign Leach. I don't know about Foster being toast or anything like that, but he is very big in this offense and the guy on the first page that said that the FB position is one of dinosaurs ask Foster what he feels about that or ask LT how he feels about that after losing his Pro Bowl FB that helped him become one of the beset RB's of all time all those years.

I don't think Foster would have been toast without Leach. But, I have no doubt that Leach helped Foster to the rushing title.

You're right, Foster said it himself, that Leach deserves major credit for his success. I'm not buying into the dinosaur angle. People like to write off old-school positions and styles all the time, but it is clear that FB is not extinct. (I remember when the run & shoot, cover 2, or running QBs, were all supposed to redefine the NFL...but things always have a way of evening out in the end.)

Leach was the only FB in the NFLN's Top 100 as voted by the players. FB might not be a premier position, but we have the best one available right now. Why give that up when he wants to be here? I think he's harder to replace than a #2 WR at this point.

Texecutioner
07-18-2011, 04:01 PM
I think he's harder to replace than a #2 WR at this point.

Yeah, and it's not like our passing game struggling any way. Hell, people forget that a healthy Owen Daniels is better in the passing game than most #2 WR's around the league. The combination of him and Walter is not bad at all. I do want to upgrade Walter though. Right now I'd rather focus using funds on defensive positions and if we were to upgrade at a #2 WR position than get a proven guy that would come here on the cheap. Stay away from clowns like Chad Johnson who would ask for a lot and aren't that good anymore. Guys like Breaston and Steve Smith would be good #2 WR's right now.

ArlingtonTexan
07-18-2011, 04:16 PM
I'm very easy to please.

1) I want Leach re-signed.
2) I want a FA #2 WR brought in and KW moved down to #3 and JJ gone.
3) Although I would prefer Aso, I want at least one of the top 5-6 CBs signed.
4) Although I would prefer Weddle, I would accept one of the top 2-3 SSs.

And I want it all done as soon as FA starts.

Get it done.

Now there is a man with a plan.

TexansSeminole
07-18-2011, 07:35 PM
Yeah, and it's not like our passing game struggling any way. Hell, people forget that a healthy Owen Daniels is better in the passing game than most #2 WR's around the league. The combination of him and Walter is not bad at all. I do want to upgrade Walter though. Right now I'd rather focus using funds on defensive positions and if we were to upgrade at a #2 WR position than get a proven guy that would come here on the cheap. Stay away from clowns like Chad Johnson who would ask for a lot and aren't that good anymore. Guys like Breaston and Steve Smith would be good #2 WR's right now.

Steve Smith would be a nice addition to this team for the right price. Either way we need to resign Leach and get some defensive players.

Sent from my DROID PRO using Tapatalk

Pantherstang84
07-18-2011, 07:54 PM
Steve Smith would be a nice addition to this team for the right price. Either way we need to resign Leach and get some defensive players.

Sent from my DROID PRO using Tapatalk

Totally agree. If anyone doubts Leach's value to the offense, see first game of last season. Watch the pony linebackers get out of his way in the 2nd half. THe running game and it's success is what opens up the passing game for this team and makes the offense go.

Allstar
07-18-2011, 11:15 PM
When has Braylen ever been a returner??

He's probably thinking of Brad Smith.

DocBar
07-19-2011, 12:01 AM
I agree with previous poster that Braylon Edwards makes sense if price is right. He has good return game skills too. Something we need. I'd rather give Holliday a shot at KO returns and that safety we drafted, Shiloh??, is supposed to be a good punt returner.

Rey
07-19-2011, 12:13 AM
Totally agree. If anyone doubts Leach's value to the offense, see first game of last season. Watch the pony linebackers get out of his way in the 2nd half. THe running game and it's success is what opens up the passing game for this team and makes the offense go.

I disagree with the last sentence.

Even if we are running the ball well a lot of times our passing game stinks.

When we got behind last year and we stopped running as much our passing game flourished.

DocBar
07-19-2011, 12:23 AM
I disagree with the last sentence.

Even if we are running the ball well a lot of times our passing game stinks.

When we got behind last year and we stopped running as much our passing game flourished.This is true. We also use the pass to set up the run quite often.

Rey
07-19-2011, 12:35 AM
I'm torn on leach.

I'd like to have him back, but I don't think he's as valuable as a lot of people seem to.

Last year when we took leach off the field and opened up the offense we moved the ball more effectively. Leach is like a specialty player in that he is not on the field as often as a lot of the other starters and he really only provides value in one aspect of the offense. Now his impact is tremendous in that area, he is a leader on the team. He adds a level of toughness. Leach is a monster at what he does. But leach has been here for a few years and he was not a player that people would have said was a main cog in our offense.

Arian foster made vonta known. Not the other way around. Leach is famous for running through fools, but a fb that simply blocks his man would probably be almost as effective. Arian would still have the burst to get to the second level and he'd still have the vision and ability to make people miss.

If vonta is blocking for Ajman green or samkon gado or Ron dayne his devastating blocks don't get the hype that they are getting.

Would love to have him back because he no doubt makes Arians job easier. I also like to see players become long time fixtures.

On the other hand I think the running game would be just fine with Casey blocking and I think the offense as a whole may be better because Casey is mote versatile. This offense has played better in recent years with a more wide open attack.

I think that if we don't have leach we'd open up the offense more. Casey could line up as a fb and motion to the slot or up on the line as a second te. He'd be a real threat in the passing game and he'd keep defenses from stacking the box just because he's in the game. He's a very talented guy and I think that this would be a great opportunity for him to showcase his skills.

On the other hand vonta is the hammer. He crushes people and that's something I love to see.

I think in the end though I'm leaning towards the unpopular opinion of letting him walk because I don't think he impacts the offense overall in the same way that I think Casey could.

Jmo.

Allstar
07-19-2011, 12:36 AM
Two years ago, we couldn't run the ball, period. Schaub led the league in passing, and had and overall successful offensive season. We don't necessarily need the run to set up the pass.

El Tejano
07-19-2011, 09:04 AM
Two years ago, we couldn't run the ball, period. Schaub led the league in passing, and had and overall successful offensive season. We don't necessarily need the run to set up the pass.


But it sure allowed us to beat Indy!

infantrycak
07-19-2011, 09:42 AM
Last year when we took leach off the field and opened up the offense we moved the ball more effectively. Leach is like a specialty player in that he is not on the field as often as a lot of the other starters and he really only provides value in one aspect of the offense. Now his impact is tremendous in that area, he is a leader on the team. He adds a level of toughness. Leach is a monster at what he does. But leach has been here for a few years and he was not a player that people would have said was a main cog in our offense.

Other than the first more effectively comment I am pretty much in agreement with this. I want Leach re-signed but at a reasonable price. He isn't on the field for more than half the offensive snaps. He does add value for non-playtime conduct. When AJ went of on Innigen Leach very calmly went and calmed AJ down first and then flew into the pile and chucked a dude out of it.

But to the original question, I think we have an elite #2 (I don't care if it he lines up at WR or TE) in OD and a very solid #3 in Walter so if the money was even I would sign Leach. He isn't indispensable but the need to upgrade a second receiver isn't that important either.

El Tejano
07-19-2011, 10:49 AM
Other than the first more effectively comment I am pretty much in agreement with this. I want Leach re-signed but at a reasonable price. He isn't on the field for more than half the offensive snaps. He does add value for non-playtime conduct. When AJ went of on Innigen Leach very calmly went and calmed AJ down first and then flew into the pile and chucked a dude out of it.

But to the original question, I think we have an elite #2 (I don't care if it he lines up at WR or TE) in OD and a very solid #3 in Walter so if the money was even I would sign Leach. He isn't indispensable but the need to upgrade a second receiver isn't that important either.

I agree with you here but in regards to your comment about non-playtime conduct value. I would also like to mention that appearantly he is an asset to the special teams as well. I'll admit I don't know how much value he brings there but I'd like to know exactly what it is because that's important too. I do recall that he handles the squib kicks rather well but that's all I've ever noticed but that's only because he's getting the ball. However the coaches have mentioned that he has alot of ST value.

El Tejano
07-22-2011, 08:57 AM
I got to thinking about the possibility of losing JJ and started looking around for possible replacements for our #2 receiver as well. The more I look at this list, the more I'm starting to see how Brad Smith from the Jets would be an awesome pick up. He's more than capable to challenge KW for the #2 but he is also a better receiver and has alot of return capabilities where he doesn't give you a heart attack when he goes back to receive a punt like JJ. On top of all that, he's also a former QB and I believe I've seen him run some out the backfield with NYJ.
To me he provides so much more than just a #2 WR and that brings up his value.

playa465
07-22-2011, 09:20 AM
I got to thinking about the possibility of losing JJ and started looking around for possible replacements for our #2 receiver as well. The more I look at this list, the more I'm starting to see how Brad Smith from the Jets would be an awesome pick up. He's more than capable to challenge KW for the #2 but he is also a better receiver and has alot of return capabilities where he doesn't give you a heart attack when he goes back to receive a punt like JJ. On top of all that, he's also a former QB and I believe I've seen him run some out the backfield with NYJ.
To me he provides so much more than just a #2 WR and that brings up his value.

Why do you think he could be a #2....I've seen nuttin out of him to warrant challenging to be a #2, maybe a#3 and special team ace. He does add versatility though but not JJ's explosiveness...jmo

El Tejano
07-22-2011, 10:31 AM
Why do you think he could be a #2....I've seen nuttin out of him to warrant challenging to be a #2, maybe a#3 and special team ace. He does add versatility though but not JJ's explosiveness...jmo

I agree with you that he isn't really a #2 but if we lose JJ, we have to replace him and showing Brad Smith that he would have the possibility of being a #2 would lure him to us. If he doesn't take KW's spot, then he more than effectively replaces JJ>

mussop
07-24-2011, 11:59 AM
dont sign Leech, let JJ go or trade him, go with what we have and use the saved money on our secondary.

mussop
07-24-2011, 12:07 PM
no offense, but you're retarded. braylon edwards had 53 receptions, 904 yards, and 7 touchdowns(the most AJ ever got was 9 in a season), and he average 17.1 yards per catch.

E: KW best season was almost 4 years ago, and had 899 yards, 60 receptions, 15 ypc, and 8 touchdowns.

E: And also, Edwards only had 2 drops last season.

Edwards is a loser. I'm surprised anyone would offer him a contract. He should of been black balled from the NFL for giving up on his team in 2008. Do you really want a guy that gives up when things arent going well?

SteveSlaton20
07-24-2011, 12:48 PM
I would want him on the Texans because he'd be easily the 2nd best WR on the team and KW would be more effective as the slot WR imo. And if we do get him/Plaxico/Holmes, we'll have AJ, OD, AF, and a good #2 receiver to be a threat in the Red Zone.

Norg
07-24-2011, 01:21 PM
What sucks is who ever we bring in might not know our system or Have the right timing and gel with Schaub and will deff struggle in year 1

thats why i think most teams are going to resgin most of there own players

H.C.4100-Bloc
07-24-2011, 09:52 PM
You have to resign him.....best FB in the game

Allstar
07-24-2011, 10:06 PM
I think we have better things to spend on than Braylon Edwards with the contract he'll demand.

TEXANRED
07-24-2011, 10:08 PM
Leach is the heart and soul of our run game. Not signing Leach means next off season we are asking ourselves who we should sign to be our new FB.

TEXANRED
07-24-2011, 10:11 PM
I think we have better things to spend on than Braylon Edwards with the contract he'll demand.

I don't get all the Edwards love. I think he is a chump. He drops passes, he's not clutch, and now he has a DWI to contend with.

Jacoby is the upgrade to Edwards.

El Tejano
07-25-2011, 08:21 AM
I was just watching NFL Network and found that Heath Evans, FB for the Saints is also a FA. Now, if for whatever reason we can't sign Leach, would picking him up be a real option for us?

El Tejano
07-25-2011, 10:32 PM
What do yall think about Heath Evans if Leach bolts on us?

beerlover
07-25-2011, 10:35 PM
What do yall think about Heath Evans if Leach bolts on us?

what do you think about the Texans just signing two, count that 2 FB's off undrafted free agent wire?

SteveSlaton20
07-26-2011, 12:42 AM
I don't get all the Edwards love. I think he is a chump. He drops passes, he's not clutch, and now he has a DWI to contend with.

Jacoby is the upgrade to Edwards.

Braylon Edwards:
53 Receptions, 904 yards, 7 Touchdowns, 17.1 YPC, 4 drops.

Jacoby Jones:
51 Receptions, 562 yards, 3 Touchdowns, 11 YPC, 7 drops.

From this article, Edwards was in the top 15 for drop percentage(6.06%), while JJ was in the bottom 15(12.07%).
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/23/drop-percentage/

So tell me how exactly JJ is an upgrade to Edwards. No really, tell me.

El Tejano
07-26-2011, 07:24 AM
what do you think about the Texans just signing two, count that 2 FB's off undrafted free agent wire?

I think they are insurance if Leach is gone or they already know Leach is gone. But if you can pick up a guy who, to me, is more athletic than Leach and is also a proven FB in the league, why not?

TEXANRED
07-26-2011, 07:32 AM
Braylon Edwards:
53 Receptions, 904 yards, 7 Touchdowns, 17.1 YPC, 4 drops.

Jacoby Jones:
51 Receptions, 562 yards, 3 Touchdowns, 11 YPC, 7 drops.

From this article, Edwards was in the top 15 for drop percentage(6.06%), while JJ was in the bottom 15(12.07%).
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/23/drop-percentage/

So tell me how exactly JJ is an upgrade to Edwards. No really, tell me.

JJ is faster, more athletic, younger, and our #3 reciever looks like their #1 receiver.

beerlover
07-26-2011, 08:52 AM
I think they are insurance if Leach is gone or they already know Leach is gone. But if you can pick up a guy who, to me, is more athletic than Leach and is also a proven FB in the league, why not?

:money:

Texans R building competition for camp in all positions 4 cheap where they have free agents who may command top market prices to keep, Leach, Jacoby & Butler. Houston is shedding contracts to strengthen position for Nnamdi Asomugha or next best proven CB services.

The Pencil Neck
07-26-2011, 08:55 AM
Remember that instead of 80 players going to camp, this year there are 90. We've got more room for camp bodies.

El Tejano
07-26-2011, 08:56 AM
:money:

Texans R building competition for camp in all positions 4 cheap where they have free agents who may command top market prices to keep, Leach, Jacoby & Butler. Houston is shedding contracts to strengthen position for Nnamdi Asomugha or next best proven CB services.

Can't get mad at that. Just hope it works out. At least they are showing to do something about a weakness if so.

SteveSlaton20
07-26-2011, 10:58 AM
JJ is faster, more athletic, younger, and our #3 reciever looks like their #1 receiver.

Edwards had a faster 40 times than JJ. you're just talking out of your a** dude.