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View Full Version : AJ:Examining Steve Slaton's trade value


Wolf
07-14-2011, 10:24 PM
It seems like a day doesn't go by without some buzz about the Texans trying to trade Steve Slaton before the start of the 2011 season - if there is a season.

Allow me to throw in my two cents, and consider this your daily buzz on Slaton trade talk.

Slaton (5-9, 210) is 25 years old and entering his fourth season in the league. The Texans third round pick in 2008 is in the final year of his contract and is part of a very crowded backfield with Arian Foster, Ben Tate and Derrick Ward. He is due to make $1.2 million this season.

After a sensational rookie season, Slaton sustained a neck injury in 2009 which led to off-season surgery to repair a disk and fuse two vertebrae in his cervical spine. The neck injury and symptomatic weakness in his right arm and hand were perceived to have contributed to his fumbling problems during the 2009 season.

Despite the season ending injury to Ben Tate in the first game of preseason in 2010, Slaton's role was reduced significantly last year as Derrick Ward took over the RB2 spot. Slaton, who was given a clean bill of health following the neck surgery, had only 22 touches in 12 games along with 39 kickoff returns for a meager 19.7 yards per return.

So what could the Texans reasonably expect in trade for Slaton?

Like the real estate market, let's look at some comps - although there aren't many recent running back trades that compare well to Slaton.

Leon Washington (5-8, 195) might be the best in a weak set of comparisons. Washington is 28 years old and 5 year veteran. The Jets received a fifth round pick from Seattle in exchange for Washington and a seventh-round pick in April 2010. Primarily a third-down back and kick returner when with the Jets, Washington had received a second round tender from the Jets prior to the trade and was coming off a compound leg fracture suffered mid-way through the 2009 season. Washington had three kickoff returns for touchdown last season for Seattle and has only six fumbles in five seasons as a pro.

J.J. Arrington (5-9, 212) may not be a fair straight-up comparison to Slaton but it's a data point



Lawrence Maroney (5-11, 220) isn't a good role-comparison to Slaton but his trade last season is another data point.





http://www.examiner.com/houston-texans-in-houston/examining-steve-slaton-s-trade-market

DocBar
07-14-2011, 10:54 PM
Nothing like a cold dose of reality for all the guys thinking we could get a 2nd or 3rd rnd pick for him.

Wolf
07-14-2011, 11:45 PM
Nothing like a cold dose of reality for all the guys thinking we could get a 2nd or 3rd rnd pick for him.

very true

Norg
07-15-2011, 01:41 AM
a six pack and two slices of Bubble gum

Wolf6151
07-15-2011, 01:57 AM
I'll take 2 hot cheerleaders with implants and a groundskeeper.

thunderkyss
07-15-2011, 02:37 AM
Nothing like a cold dose of reality for all the guys thinking we could get a 2nd or 3rd rnd pick for him.

Who is thinking we can get a 2nd or 3rd for him?

Clamp
07-15-2011, 03:14 AM
I heard a good analogy for trading young players. Drafting a player is like buying a new car, you draft/buy them based on potential and a short test drive. You have seen other people drive it but until you get it home and have it for a few weeks you really don't know. Once you drive it off the lot though, it loses value. Same as with a draft pick, we took slaton in the 3rd but now that we've got him everyone in the neighborhood has seen how he drives. It might have seemed like we got a good deal at first but he stalled out a few times now and everyone knows it. A few years go by and you wanna sell the car to your neighbor, he has seen you driving it (and that you have been driving your other car more often). No way is he gonna pay anywhere near what you paid for it. On the other hand he might still want it bc he feels like he knows cars and maybe he just might be able to fix it up and run better for him that in did for you.

We arent getting more than a 6th rounder for slaton, but he is a back up at the moment and thats most likely what a 6th rounder would get us, but in a position we need more depth in. And there is always the off chance that you hit it big and find a good player there that can do more. Either way its cutting from where we are deep for potential help where we are thin.

Corrosion
07-15-2011, 03:36 AM
I'll take 2 hot cheerleaders with implants and a groundskeeper.

You'll be lucky to get a bag of chips with nothing left but a few crums .... or maybe the backwash remaining in a two day old can of cheap beer .... complete with cigarette butts and ashes.

:texanbill:

thunderkyss
07-15-2011, 05:00 AM
We arent getting more than a 6th rounder for slaton, but he is a back up at the moment and thats most likely what a 6th rounder would get us, but in a position we need more depth in. And there is always the off chance that you hit it big and find a good player there that can do more. Either way its cutting from where we are deep for potential help where we are thin.

I agree with this.

However, I believe he has more value to us as a back up to the back up of our back up than a 6th round pick.

He'll be the highest paid 4th string running back in the league.... but that's ok, not my money.

If something happens to any one of the RBs ahead of Slaton on the depth chart (one of the most brutal positions mind you) we are ahead of the game with Slaton on the bench, than a 6th round pick in the bank.

Try to remember, last year our strongest position was LB. By game 7 we were signing people off the street to suit up on Sunday (hyperbole).

Arian Foster is special. There is no doubt about that. We know Ward is not a feature back. We have no clue what Tate is going to look like, much less if he has to carry the load. We know Slate had an injury that caused some fumbles.... he had corrective surgery... & we know Kubiak won't play an UDFA rookie until week 14.

I don't want to lose that 6th round pick.

All I'm saying is keep him until the trade deadline.

DocBar
07-15-2011, 05:20 AM
Slaton could have good value going to a team that needs him for the same reasons we drafted him: 3rd down back. He had a GREAT rookie season, but teams now know what he can do. He's a poor man's Reggie Bush, only better or a poor man's Barry Sanders, only worse. Get him in space and he's a playmaker. Run him between the tackles, he's a liabilty. Kubiak runs too balanced of an attack for SS to be effective as a RB on a consistent basis.
I've been saying that since his rookie year.

Scooter
07-15-2011, 05:45 AM
edit.

thunderkyss
07-15-2011, 07:15 PM
Slaton could have good value going to a team that needs him for the same reasons we drafted him: 3rd down back. He had a GREAT rookie season, but teams now know what he can do. He's a poor man's Reggie Bush, only better or a poor man's Barry Sanders, only worse. Get him in space and he's a playmaker. Run him between the tackles, he's a liabilty. Kubiak runs too balanced of an attack for SS to be effective as a RB on a consistent basis.
I've been saying that since his rookie year.

That's not true.

We'll show case him in the preseason as a competent back-up/3rd down back, and a play-maker at that.

DocBar
07-15-2011, 07:19 PM
That's not true.

We'll show case him in the preseason as a competent back-up/3rd down back, and a play-maker at that. You just moved to Homerville Heights with this post, TK.:kitten:
Anyone who's watched SS run knows he's a bounce it outside kinda guy. When he tries it up the gut, most of the time he gets flung to the ground like a sticky booger by a DT.

ATXtexanfan
07-15-2011, 07:25 PM
why would anyone trade for slaton when we dont need him?

thunderkyss
07-15-2011, 07:43 PM
You just moved to Homerville Heights with this post, TK.:kitten:
Anyone who's watched SS run knows he's a bounce it outside kinda guy. When he tries it up the gut, most of the time he gets flung to the ground like a sticky booger by a DT.

If you/ve got evidence of this, I'd love to see it.

This is a Steve Slaton highlight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmNfcyy3NXo). Most of it is from 2008, but were questioning his toughness. He's not MJD, but he is one tough little Son.

The fumbling issue was his only real problem. He had surgery to correct that, we haven't seen enough since, to know if that has been fixed or not.

As a third down back, his carries would not be like what he experienced in 2008, which probably caused the problem to begin with. But every time he's been on the field since, he's shown that he might be that guy.

badboy
07-15-2011, 07:50 PM
I agree with this.

However, I believe he has more value to us as a back up to the back up of our back up than a 6th round pick.

He'll be the highest paid 4th string running back in the league.... but that's ok, not my money.

If something happens to any one of the RBs ahead of Slaton on the depth chart (one of the most brutal positions mind you) we are ahead of the game with Slaton on the bench, than a 6th round pick in the bank.

Try to remember, last year our strongest position was LB. By game 7 we were signing people off the street to suit up on Sunday (hyperbole).

Arian Foster is special. There is no doubt about that. We know Ward is not a feature back. We have no clue what Tate is going to look like, much less if he has to carry the load. We know Slate had an injury that caused some fumbles.... he had corrective surgery... & we know Kubiak won't play an UDFA rookie until week 14.

I don't want to lose that 6th round pick.

All I'm saying is keep him until the trade deadline.What I was gonna post. i would not take a 5th round for him right now. He is more valuable on this roster. Now as season starts... backs start going down league wide we may get more or maybe trade player for a need position.

badboy
07-15-2011, 07:56 PM
why would anyone trade for slaton when we dont need him?Team A wants him but know team B and maybe team C could use him. Does team A wait for Texans to cut him and hope they outbid B & C? That is pretty risky. If you can fill a need position with say a mid to late 4th
or a backup at a deep position.
We don't need Slaton now but a Ben Tate injury happens in pre-season (theoretically) & you are down to 2 RBs.

thetexanator
07-15-2011, 08:01 PM
slaton's value is worth a 7th at most. we should just let the guy walk with a big thank you for the one good season and give him a shot somewhere else. still might have something left

badboy
07-15-2011, 08:02 PM
slaton's value is worth a 7th at most. we should just let the guy walk with a big thank you for the one good season and give him a shot somewhere else. still might have something leftWhat are you talking about? Can you back that up with anything?

Wolf
07-15-2011, 08:03 PM
bad part with slaton is no extra value on kick returns


*edit* from original post link

The pros on Slaton is that he's young, his knees are good, he's not expensive, and he's proven that he can be a very productive player in the NFL, given his rookie season performance.

The cons on Slaton are primarily that he hasn't played well since his rookie season and although he was healthy last year he was not able to emerge as a viable backup to Arian Foster. Slaton was below average as a kickoff returner and if he wants to resurrect his NFL career he still needs to prove over the course of a season that his fumbling issues are behind him.

All things considered, a fifth round pick for Slaton is probably the top end of his market range with the most likely being a sixth or a conditional fifth depending on Slaton's production in 2011. A strong preseason would obviously help his marketability.




kinda hard to argue with that. esp with the examples given

thetexanator
07-15-2011, 08:06 PM
What are you talking about? Can you back that up with anything?

i didnt think i needed to. am i missing something?? didnt he average like 20/kr and did nothing as a rb the last couple of years?

DocBar
07-15-2011, 08:16 PM
If you/ve got evidence of this, I'd love to see it.

This is a Steve Slaton highlight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmNfcyy3NXo). Most of it is from 2008, but were questioning his toughness. He's not MJD, but he is one tough little Son.

The fumbling issue was his only real problem. He had surgery to correct that, we haven't seen enough since, to know if that has been fixed or not.

As a third down back, his carries would not be like what he experienced in 2008, which probably caused the problem to begin with. But every time he's been on the field since, he's shown that he might be that guy. I was wondering when you were gonna break out the highlight reel. You can make any player look like a HOFer that way. The fact remains that most of his games had him averaging 3 YPC until he would break a big one. I'll see if I can google a lowlight reel for comparison.
BTW, weren't you one of the guys saying we could get a 2-4th pick for him in a trade in another thread?

badboy
07-15-2011, 08:44 PM
i didnt think i needed to. am i missing something?? didnt he average like 20/kr and did nothing as a rb the last couple of years?Uh, you probably forgot but Foster was a power back that led the nation. Usually that type player gets the majority of the carries. Ward is a power back for red zone and 3rd & short. SS is a completely different type runner. The fact that he has been in the system 3 years and knows the playbook rate him ahead of a 5th round. Most people acknowledge he has not been used to accentuate his skills. His returns were nothing to brag about but unless Holliday is as successful as I hope when he returns from injury, Slaton will be our best option.

Not trying to make him into a starter but he can be a cheap option especially if one of the 3 other guys go down.

thunderkyss
07-15-2011, 08:58 PM
I was wondering when you were gonna break out the highlight reel. You can make any player look like a HOFer that way. The fact remains that most of his games had him averaging 3 YPC until he would break a big one. I'll see if I can google a lowlight reel for comparison.
BTW, weren't you one of the guys saying we could get a 2-4th pick for him in a trade in another thread?

Try to stay on track. I asked you to prove that he would go down like Reggie Bush on Prom Night if he attempted to run between the tackles.

Forget the "highlight reel" & what him take contact & keep on going.

Show me, or tell me during which game he crumbled & I'll see if I can find it.

& no, I never said we could get a 2-4th pick for Slaton. I agree with the 6th conditional 5th grade he's getting. I agree with the questionable 3rd down back assessment of who/what he is now.

I do not agree with some fans value of a 6th round pick. To me, it's worth keeping him on the roster for a few weeks into the season, trade him at the deadline & get that 6th/5th rounder.

They feel like we should "capitalize" now, while the getting is good.

I have said I'd trade him now, if someone would offer us a 4th or better, a 5th & a player, a 6th and a player..... but just a 5th or 6th, he's worth more to me as insurance till the deadline.

thunderkyss
07-15-2011, 09:00 PM
His returns were nothing to brag about but unless Holliday is as successful as I hope when he returns from injury, Slaton will be our best option.

Not trying to make him into a starter but he can be a cheap option especially if one of the 3 other guys go down.

No one was able to return squat for the Texans in 2011. Kubiak says it's because injury forced them to substitute ST players every week. Marciano is probably the best pure coach on the staff..... one of the best in the league. Kubiak's excuse is plausible.

badboy
07-15-2011, 09:03 PM
No one was able to return squat for the Texans in 2011. Kubiak says it's because injury forced them to substitute ST players every week. Marciano is probably the best pure coach on the staff..... one of the best in the league. Kubiak's excuse is plausible.Agreed but we both realize this area has to be fixed.

DocBar
07-15-2011, 09:19 PM
Try to stay on track. I asked you to prove that he would go down like Reggie Bush on Prom Night if he attempted to run between the tackles.

Forget the "highlight reel" & what him take contact & keep on going.

Show me, or tell me during which game he crumbled & I'll see if I can find it.

& no, I never said we could get a 2-4th pick for Slaton. I agree with the 6th conditional 5th grade he's getting. I agree with the questionable 3rd down back assessment of who/what he is now.

I do not agree with some fans value of a 6th round pick. To me, it's worth keeping him on the roster for a few weeks into the season, trade him at the deadline & get that 6th/5th rounder.

They feel like we should "capitalize" now, while the getting is good.

I have said I'd trade him now, if someone would offer us a 4th or better, a 5th & a player, a 6th and a player..... but just a 5th or 6th, he's worth more to me as insurance till the deadline.Go back and watch any game in '08 and in 13 or 14 of them, you'll see his stats read something like 20/65 until he busts 1 big one. I don't need to point out a specific game because that was the case in nearly all of them.
I remember now you saying that about the draft picks. I still think it's bat sh*t crazy to think we'd ever get that offered to us.

thunderkyss
07-15-2011, 09:46 PM
Go back and watch any game in '08 and in 13 or 14 of them, you'll see his stats read something like 20/65 until he busts 1 big one. I don't need to point out a specific game because that was the case in nearly all of them.

First, a lot of those runs was after initial contact at the line, he managed to stay on his feet & make something out of nothing.

Second, the 2008 OL was pretty bad, Steve's success was due more to Slaton than the OL. Steve's burst allowed him to get to & through the hole, while the OL was able to hold their blocks which wasn't long.

Our OL is doing a much better job in 2010 than they did in 2011. If you watch the highlights, you see what Steve can do when he gets through the LOS untouched.


I remember now you saying that about the draft picks. I still think it's bat sh*t crazy to think we'd ever get that offered to us.

I don't think anyone is going to make that offer. We'd be stupid not to jump on it is all I'm saying.

A 5th or a 6th... is worthless, wait till the deadline.

If we have to cut Slaton to sign Aso, I'm fine with that, trade him before the season. But if it is just to get a pick that could improve our position in the 2012 draft????

We've never had a problem (as fans critiquing roster moves) with going into the season with 4 RBs on the roster. Why now?

badboy
07-15-2011, 09:55 PM
Go back and watch any game in '08 and in 13 or 14 of them, you'll see his stats read something like 20/65 until he busts 1 big one. I don't need to point out a specific game because that was the case in nearly all of them.
I remember now you saying that about the draft picks. I still think it's bat sh*t crazy to think we'd ever get that offered to us.But he did bust the big one and that does count. He had a great rookie year and was hurt in second year with a scary neck injury. We have two good backs ahead of him and Tate could be great. Why not hold onto Slaton until you see how the 3 do? A 5th is nothing compared to having Slaton at a cheap wage as insurance? If as I said we get offered a good deal later into season, move him then? He is reportedly 100%.

Corrosion
07-15-2011, 10:56 PM
We've never had a problem (as fans critiquing roster moves) with going into the season with 4 RBs on the roster. Why now?

I dont think we've ever had this much talent in the backfield ....

The cost of keeping Slaton Vs some rookie UDFA could be significant.

Another reason one could argue for Slaton not remaining on the roster is his lack of ability to perform on special teams - Most #4 backs are expected to contribute there .... We saw his lack of ability last season as a returner. Im not so sure he could contribute to ST otherwise.

Other than that .... I got nuttin. Having a lot of talent at the RB position sure cant hurt considering the attrition rate of RB's.

DocBar
07-15-2011, 10:59 PM
But he did bust the big one and that does count. He had a great rookie year and was hurt in second year with a scary neck injury. We have two good backs ahead of him and Tate could be great. Why not hold onto Slaton until you see how the 3 do? A 5th is nothing compared to having Slaton at a cheap wage as insurance? If as I said we get offered a good deal later into season, move him then? He is reportedly 100%.
That "bust a big one" once a game worked out pretty well for Barry Sanders. Not so much for the rest of NFL RB's. I would trade SS mostly because he's probably not going to make much of a contribution to the team. If he were a better returner, I'd say keep him.

Lucky
07-15-2011, 11:04 PM
The cost of keeping Slaton Vs some rookie UDFA could be significant.

Slaton is due $1.2 mil this season. Trading or releasing Slaton would induce a cap hit of $166K. While a rookie UDFA would pull likely less than $400K. So, there's a 600K+ difference. Is that significant? I don't know. When you're going after the big fish in free agency, every lit bit has to help.

badboy
07-15-2011, 11:10 PM
I dont think we've ever had this much talent in the backfield ....

The cost of keeping Slaton Vs some rookie UDFA could be significant.

Another reason one could argue for Slaton not remaining on the roster is his lack of ability to perform on special teams - Most #4 backs are expected to contribute there .... We saw his lack of ability last season as a returner. Im not so sure he could contribute to ST otherwise.

Other than that .... I got nuttin. Having a lot of talent at the RB position sure cant hurt considering the attrition rate of RB's.I see Slaton as a Deep Snapper type player who is used occasionally but could step up and play right tackle or a guard or maybe replace Myers if hurt. DS do not usually play ST.

Depending on the UDFA or lower round pick, I'd agree. In an earlier post another thread I predicted SS would not be on final roster but that was when I thought we'd have more off season to work up our newer guys. I still do not see just cutting him.

thunderkyss
07-15-2011, 11:20 PM
I dont think we've ever had this much talent in the backfield ....

The cost of keeping Slaton Vs some rookie UDFA could be significant.


To me, the cost is the play-offs, what's that worth?

Kubiak will not play an UDFA with the play-offs on the line.

Won't do it.

He'll bring in Ron Dayne, he'll sign Ahman Green..... he'll play Steve Slaton.

Think about it, We get three games into the season, Tate has a season ending surgery, & Ward has been a no-show all year. We'll have Foster, crap, & a 5th/6th round pick as a backup.

I'd rather see what Ward is going to do in year two.

I'd rather see Tate fight like he has something to prove.

Before we get rid of our last safety net.

Let's trade Slaton, I'm in agreement with that. But if it's going to be for something as worthless as a 5th/6th round pick of the 2012 draft, let's not be in a big hurry to do so.

ObsiWan
07-15-2011, 11:36 PM
Tate seems brittle. Missed most of camp with a hammie and then went down for the year during the first game he was supposedly healthy. I'd like to see Tate last for a season before I'd trade Slaton. Especially if all I get is a 3rd day pick.

Corrosion
07-15-2011, 11:52 PM
To me, the cost is the play-offs, what's that worth?

Kubiak will not play an UDFA with the play-offs on the line.

Won't do it.

He'll bring in Ron Dayne, he'll sign Ahman Green..... he'll play Steve Slaton.

Think about it, We get three games into the season, Tate has a season ending surgery, & Ward has been a no-show all year. We'll have Foster, crap, & a 5th/6th round pick as a backup.

I'd rather see what Ward is going to do in year two.

I'd rather see Tate fight like he has something to prove.

Before we get rid of our last safety net.

Let's trade Slaton, I'm in agreement with that. But if it's going to be for something as worthless as a 5th/6th round pick of the 2012 draft, let's not be in a big hurry to do so.

I dont disagree at all. I was just playing devils advocate.

Big Lou
07-15-2011, 11:56 PM
I say keep him until the deadline unless:

1. There is a GM high on Crack that calls and offers a 3rd or better or a decent playe at a position of need.

2. It interferes with us signing a significant FA at a position of great need.

3. He looks like Slaton circa 2008 in camp.

Slaton, was a pretty damn good rookie that got hurt in his second year and had issues ever since. Are all the issues related to the injury I don't know but there are hundreds of pages on the topic in here so read all you want.

However I'm sure when Slaton was rushing for over a 1,000 yards his first year all the haters didn't have sh*t to say. I've made fun of him a little bit, but man some in here have been down right hateful towards the guy. A little loyalty would be nice. Slaton may not be the SS of 2008, but do we really need to kick the guy in the nuts and wish him a slow painful death, you'd think he was Carr, Faggins, or Boselli for goodness sakes.:fingergun:

Eugene Wilson gets more respect than Slaton and thats just plain sad.

thunderkyss
07-16-2011, 12:03 AM
I say keep him until the deadline unless:

1. There is a GM high on Crack that calls and offers a 3rd or better or a decent playe at a position of need.

2. It interferes with us signing a significant FA at a position of great need.

3. He looks like Slaton circa 2008 in camp.


Exactly.

I say we run him into the ground during the preseason....... help us feel comfortable that he's gotten over his fumbling problems & show other teams that he can help their team.

If they feel like giving us a 3rd, jump on it.. pick up some aging vet on the cheap.

I'd even take the deal if it's a 4th.

But a 5th??

drs23
07-16-2011, 02:07 PM
Exactly.

I say we run him into the ground during the preseason....... help us feel comfortable that he's gotten over his fumbling problems & show other teams that he can help their team.

If they feel like giving us a 3rd, jump on it.. pick up some aging vet on the cheap.

I'd even take the deal if it's a 4th.

But a 5th??

JMO TK, but I doubt he'd bring that. Guess we'll hafta wait and see. If he would bring more than that, color me surprised.

Clamp
07-16-2011, 04:01 PM
Tate seems brittle. Missed most of camp with a hammie and then went down for the year during the first game he was supposedly healthy. I'd like to see Tate last for a season before I'd trade Slaton. Especially if all I get is a 3rd day pick.

Isnt it weird calling it a thrid day pick now? lol

Wolf
07-28-2011, 05:28 AM
well If I heard right, Minn gave up a 6th for McNabb so..I can't imagine Slaton having more value than that, IF the Texans were going to trade him