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View Full Version : Texans Trade for Phillip Buchannon (second thread)


Vinny
04-20-2005, 11:56 AM
We need a new thread. The other one is getting too big and it is full of off-topic posts.

Now, the 3WR set is one of the dominant sets in the NFL now, especially in the new no-touch era. Looks like we have Dunta as the slot/blitz nickel, Buchannon and Glenn on the outside WR's and Faggins will take the Dime when we go to a 4 WR set-up. No longer will we have to worry about covering Brandon Stokley with a 2nd rate corner.

Try to make an effort to stay on topic this time guys. Thanks!

O.G.
04-20-2005, 11:58 AM
We need a new thread. The other one is getting too big and it is full of off-topic posts.

Now, the 3WR set is one of the dominant sets in the NFL now, especially in the new no-touch era. Looks like we have Dunta as the slot/blitz nickel, Buchannon and Glenn on the outside WR's and Faggins will take the Dime when we go to a 4 WR set-up. No longer will we have to worry about covering Brandon Stokley with a 2nd rate corner.

My point exactly. He's another piece that teams will have to game plan for. You can never have enough good corners.

El Tejano
04-20-2005, 11:59 AM
Okay here is my take on all of this. We basically got a 4th rounder for a 6th round pick and this years 2nd. Now we have 4 very capable CBs and he possibly could provide some future talent should Glenn get hurt(remember Glenn has bad hammies). He provides a KR/PR with the "break away speed" everyone here says JJ Moses doesn't possess. If he sux, he is a nickel or even dime back at best for the next two years and we can always draft a corner later, we can then cut him and his money is not a big cap hit.

As far as the cons to this trade, well we don't get to move up for DJ and we don't get to pick in the second round. Who knows, we could still trade draft spots somehow and for all we know, Texans may not even really be sold on him to make that kind of move. At worst in the first round, we trade down and get the lineman we all think we need or stay put and see what falls in our lap. Anything can happen on draft day.

By the way I like the idea of your last sentence. I feel it really does make this trade worthy of what we gave up for it.

What is your opinion and view of what you believe the Texans are pushing for this season?

cptnbreakdance
04-20-2005, 12:07 PM
Dom is one of the best at coaching secondary players. Look what he did for D-Rob in his rookie season. I know he is very tallented, but I still feal that Dom is a big reason for his success. Buhcannon will end up being a great pick up.

All we need now is a pass rusher with good speed to get at the QB.

Errant Hothy
04-20-2005, 12:09 PM
The DBs coach, Hoak (mispelled?) did more for D-Rob then anybody; which is a good sign since he also helped recruit Buchanon caoming out of college.

Honoring Earl 34
04-20-2005, 12:09 PM
:thumbup It seems PB is a big play corner like Glenn and Dunta . The thing that creates these situations is a pass rush . With the secondary seemingly set and after signing Bradford , they'll take Merriman , Johnson , or Ware . The one thats on the board at 13 will be a Texan . That gives them Babin ,Peek and ? to chase the QB. They're also young and talented .

TexanBacker93
04-20-2005, 12:11 PM
I think this will turn out to be a great move by the Texans. They get a 2nd young corner to shore up that spot for the next few years and add some solid depth. Plus, he's very cap friendly for the next 2 years. He's better than anything we could have gotten in the 2nd round and leaves us with plenty of options in the 1st round. Great job, Mr. Casserly.

The only person I see saying this is a bad move is Raider Fan. I think most of them are jealous because their team is bad and they can't get traded like Buchanon did. I don't know enough about his attitude, but I can't imagine being a Raider brings out the nice guy in someone.

infantrycak
04-20-2005, 12:16 PM
:thumbup It seems PB is a big play corner like Glenn and Dunta . The thing that creates these situations is a pass rush . With the secondary seemingly set and after signing Bradford , they'll take Merriman , Johnson , or Ware . The one thats on the board at 13 will be a Texan . That gives them Babin ,Peek and ? to chase the QB. They're also young and talented .

The Texans had the 5th most INT's in the league last year with the 32nd # of sacks. Now they have added another ballhawk with the wheels to put defensive TD's on the board. If the Texans can improve to even middle of the pack pass rush, QB's should be very afraid next year.

LikeABoss
04-20-2005, 12:30 PM
Great pick up :thumbup

This dude certainly has good potential and he can also return punts.

But I kinda get the feeling that Casserly might trade back a few spots in the first round to regain back that second round pick though idonno:

Doesn't look like we are gonna draft Thomas Davis either :(

infantrycak
04-20-2005, 12:42 PM
Doesn't look like we are gonna draft Thomas Davis either :(

How does this affect Thomas Davis?

LikeABoss
04-20-2005, 12:47 PM
If we trade out of 13, the the Saints will draft Thomas Davis at 16.

LBC_Justin
04-20-2005, 12:54 PM
This was a good trade for the Texans. No if's, and's or but's.

I live in the LA area. Unfortuantely I get to see all of the Raider games. My co-workers (who are all Raiders fans) are upset about the trade. The Raiders gave up a solid #1 pick from a strong draft class for two unknowns from a much weaker draft class.

This guy is only 24 years old!!!!!!! <---That is a key point. He has only played for 3 seasons. The texans did not mortgage the future for a Old player. They got a guy who has not hit his prime yet and is not in a huge contract.

As for his attitude problem. That will change. He has worn two uniforms. The Miami Hurricanes and the Oakland Raiders. Those teams both encourage show boating, cockiness, and individual play. The raiders pride themselves on their "Bad Boy" image and the fact that they are the most pentalized team in the league. Hey it sells jerseys. With the coaching staff in Houston, and a more "Blue Colar" type environment Phillip Buchanan will come around.

Andre Johnson played with Phillip Buchanan for several years at Miami. I am sure Phillip covered AJ in practice all the time and the Texans got a lot of input from AJ who got to see PB in action every day.

Speed, Youth and Playmaking ability were needed in the Texans Secondary. They just got it. Glenn is still good but history shows he doesn't have much time left.

Some other things to keep in mind regarding the Texans (They make very informed decisions):
"The Texans might have the largest scouting department in the NFL, and it gives them a distinct advantage in their coverage of players in free agency and the draft. They have nine college scouts who cover the country and three pro scouts who handle free agency and veteran organizations."
"This is not a front office that takes a lot of risks or gambles in both free agency and the draft. The Texans let the process come to them, and they rely on their preparation to make smart final decisions."

as with all off seasons moves only time will tell.

Good trade Texans

El Tejano
04-20-2005, 01:10 PM
This was a good trade for the Texans. No if's, and's or but's.

I live in the LA area. Unfortuantely I get to see all of the Raider games. My co-workers (who are all Raiders fans) are upset about the trade. The Raiders gave up a solid #1 pick from a strong draft class for two unknowns from a much weaker draft class.

This guy is only 24 years old!!!!!!! <---That is a key point. He has only played for 3 seasons. The texans did not mortgage the future for a Old player. They got a guy who has not hit his prime yet and is not in a huge contract.

As for his attitude problem. That will change. He has worn two uniforms. The Miami Hurricanes and the Oakland Raiders. Those teams both encourage show boating, cockiness, and individual play. The raiders pride themselves on their "Bad Boy" image and the fact that they are the most pentalized team in the league. Hey it sells jerseys. With the coaching staff in Houston, and a more "Blue Colar" type environment Phillip Buchanan will come around.

Andre Johnson played with Phillip Buchanan for several years at Miami. I am sure Phillip covered AJ in practice all the time and the Texans got a lot of input from AJ who got to see PB in action every day.

Speed, Youth and Playmaking ability were needed in the Texans Secondary. They just got it. Glenn is still good but history shows he doesn't have much time left.

Some other things to keep in mind regarding the Texans (They make very informed decisions):
"The Texans might have the largest scouting department in the NFL, and it gives them a distinct advantage in their coverage of players in free agency and the draft. They have nine college scouts who cover the country and three pro scouts who handle free agency and veteran organizations."
"This is not a front office that takes a lot of risks or gambles in both free agency and the draft. The Texans let the process come to them, and they rely on their preparation to make smart final decisions."

as with all off seasons moves only time will tell.

Good trade Texans

Now that was an awesome post. :thumbup . The more I look at it the harder I am finding negatives about this. Or at least negatives that outweight the bad. Alot of teams wanted this guy. We got him for cheap.

Nawzer
04-20-2005, 01:11 PM
In a weak draft this year I think this was a very good trade for us. Buchanon is a proven NFL player who has shown flashes of his potential. With a 2nd and 3rd rounder this year we might've drafted a player who may not be on our roster two or three years from now. I know it's a risk but I think this was a good risk. Buchanon is still only 24 years old and he has a lot of room to grow. With this move we can rule out Antrell Rolle or Pac man Jones wearing a Texans uniform. We will most likely pick a linebacker, running back or wide receiver. We may also move down in the draft.

Dionysus22
04-20-2005, 01:17 PM
I haven't stopped smiling since I heard the news last night. :excited:

ThaShark316
04-20-2005, 01:37 PM
Every minute I keep loving this trade....

I look at it like this, we traded basically a 3rd for PB31....if you think about it, the Texans may have used their #2 pick (#47 overall) on a CB, so we made a damn good trade. Now that the NFL is using alot of 3WR sets, this is huge. It's kinda better to get a player thats proven himself to be a good CB and potentially a Pro Bowl caliber Corner.

Good Job Cass, all we do now is trade for MORE picks. :thumbup

keyfro
04-20-2005, 01:52 PM
all i'm gonna say is that we now have the secondary to match the colts recievers and tight ends...the only question is do we have the front seven to match them...and more importantly do we have the depth at the front seven to match them...they are the the best team in our division and if we are gonna start making playoff pushes we need to be able to rivial them in talent and ability...pb gives us that...now we need more depth at d-line and linebacker...we need a solid number 2 reciever...we need joppru to stay healthy and we need our o-line to really come together this season...we also need to add some serious depth to our o-line...so in order this is how i see our team needs being:
WR
LB
DL
OL
RB
S

dagr8whitehope
04-20-2005, 01:53 PM
What exactly did the trade involve? I just saw that the Texans acquired Buchanon, which is fine by me as long as they didn't trade this year's number 1, which they didn't. With that 13, do you think we go OL or DL, both could use some help, but I see more D-linemen available later in the draft but only 1 dominant O-lineman, that being Barron. I think that we should go after Barron at 13, due to the fact that the secondary won't need as much help with Phillip as a 3rd corner. The offense, in my eyes, is only 1 or 2 pieces away from being great, so I say take these pieces this year early, and with your 3rd's, grab one of the hybrids that's left, as there are 3 or 4 that could be good who will still be there. That's all i got for now, later.

D-ReK
04-20-2005, 01:56 PM
So it looks like it's pretty much a concensus: Texans fans like the trade, but Titan and Raider fans don't :hmmm: ...I like that...If we can keep his attitude in check, then we may have gotten a steal...

canadiantexan
04-20-2005, 02:07 PM
I think Hoke can bring out something in him, if anybody can it's Hoke he did recruit him out of high school and look what he's done for Robinson. Buchanan is a good football player with great speed. The only thing against him is he played in a terrible Raider defense that had virtualy no pass rush and could'nt stop the run. Buchanan also brings with him big play capabilities something this teams defense and special teams could use more of.

Porky
04-20-2005, 02:10 PM
I love the trade myself. I knew nothing about it until I got my Chronic this morning. After almost choking on my Oatmeal, a big smile appeared on my face, and is still there. This now gives us 3 former #1 draft picks at CB, all with well above average speed, quickness, and cover ability. In addition, Dunta may already be the most phyicial corner in the league. Maybe PB can learn a thing or two on tackling technique from him. I would put our top 5 group of CB's against any team in the league. More than anything, this tells me the Texans are interested in competing against the Colts. Depending on the outcome of the draft, this might also put us above the Jags in the central pecking order. We shall see.

Without trying to get too far off topic, I agree with Nawzer. I see a LB, RB, or WR with our #1 this year. I also think it is more likely now we trade down and try to recover one of the picks. Think about someone like Demarcus Ware, and his speed. We will have totally turned around our team speed on defense. Add Ware into a mix with Drob, PB, Glenn, Greenwood, and Peek. WOW! Or imagine getting the speed of a Troy Williamson, or the bruising, run over you style of Ced Benson. I am pumped! Bring on the season!
:whoohoo:

Hervoyel
04-20-2005, 02:21 PM
I agree Porky. I think that Dunta and Buchanon being close in age and coming up at the same time will push them together and make them want to be better than each other. Ideal situation is they grow up together and make each other better and Glenn mentors them both for the next couple of years as he slides gracefully into being a backup, and then into retirement.

It's all speculation on my part but when I originally read how much Faggins had to say about Glenn being a good teacher and example I just have assumed that Dunta getting so good so fast must have been helped along by Aaron Glenn working with him. I expect the same thing to happen with Buchanon.

Grid
04-20-2005, 02:24 PM
And the fact that Hoke was the guy who recruited him out of highschool.. and hoke has done wonders for our secondary.

this is gonna be great :).


I also agree with LB, RB, or CB. We could trade down just a few slots and grab Pollack and an extra #2 or #3.. would depend on who fell to us though.

El Tejano
04-20-2005, 02:39 PM
I
It's all speculation on my part but when I originally read how much Faggins had to say about Glenn being a good teacher and example I just have assumed that Dunta getting so good so fast must have been helped along by Aaron Glenn working with him. I expect the same thing to happen with Buchanon.
This is something I was starting to think about. I remember Glenn being so ready to teach Dunta the ropes and I assume he will do this with Buchannon. Key is Buchannon wanting to learn from him. :hmmm:

nunusguy
04-20-2005, 02:41 PM
brandon: Did Houston make a good deal with Oakland?
Rick Gosselin: The Texans obviously wanted a corner to become the heir apparent to 33-year-old Aaron Glenn. They got a good one in Buchanan. But I think the price they paid was a tad steep. I think the second and third rounds are going to be strong in this draft and the Texans gave the Raiders two choices there.
*******************
The above is from a chat session on the Morning News in Dallas - either Gosselin is not too quick on his feet or he is reluctant to give the Texans
credit for an astute trade. After all, if you say a team "got a good one in
Buchanan" (and we know that CB is one of the most important and difficult
positions on the field to staff), and if the only consideration you part with is a
2 & 3 in a weak draft hey, you done good. Common Rick, give up that attah
boy.

fresno8
04-20-2005, 02:42 PM
Great trade. Buchanon will be very good. We are getting close to being a really really good team. Go Texans, can't wait for Saturday.

D-ReK
04-20-2005, 02:45 PM
This is something I was starting to think about. I remember Glenn being so ready to teach Dunta the ropes and I assume he will do this with Buchannon. Key is Buchannon wanting to learn from him. :hmmm:

To be honest, I question his willingness to learn from Glenn as well...Buchanon has made it clear throughout his career that he wants to be the next "Primetime" and I heard he was receiving coaching from Deion as well...While Glenn has had a great career, he doesn't have the reputation that Deion has/had and I could see PB thinking, "Who is this guy? He's no Deion" and not listening to him...I'm optimistic, though...

Youngstown Colt
04-20-2005, 02:48 PM
There was talks that Buchannon didn't like being considered second fiddle to chuck woodson. So it's a **** shoot as to how he acts when he hears that he's still the second best CB on his team.

canadiantexan
04-20-2005, 03:01 PM
There was talks that Buchannon didn't like being considered second fiddle to chuck woodson. So it's a **** shoot as to how he acts when he hears that he's still the second best CB on his team.

It could all be part of that famous Raider "in fighting" . I think Raider fans just turned on him because he did'nt want to be there anymore. I'm confident that we will not see any outburst or off feild shananigans from PB in his time here.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
04-20-2005, 03:07 PM
We traded a 2nd and 3rd round pick for a first round talent. Jon Hoke will get Phillip Buchanan to play up to his potential and the Texans will look like geniuses for making this move. D-Rob and C-Buch will be the best young CB tandem in the NFL.

Vinny
04-20-2005, 03:09 PM
By Carter Toole
www.HoustonTexans.com

Dom Capers has always said the simplest route to the postseason is winning your division.

The Texans took a large step towards that goal in 2004, sweeping two division opponents (Jacksonville and Tennessee) for the first time. But it wasn’t enough, considering the proverbial bully on the playground still stole their lunch money.

That would be the Indianapolis Colts, who won their second consecutive AFC South title by riding the league’s most prolific passing attack. Colts quarterback Peyton Manning set a single-season NFL record with 49 touchdown passes. He had three receivers with more than 1,000 receiving yards.

“When you’re playing in a division with the best passing offense in the National Football League, you cannot have enough good cover people,” Houston’s head coach said Wednesday. “There’s nothing more frustrating than when you fall short in that area.”

So it stands to reason that if the Texans are going to have any chance of knocking the Colts from their perch, they need to load up on defensive backs. Good defensive backs. And on Wednesday, the Texans knocked the Astros, Rockets, U.S. Clay Court Championships and Shell Houston Open below the fold with a potential blockbuster acquisition.

Houston traded two draft picks – their second-round pick (47th overall) and their first of two third-round selections (74th overall) – to the Raiders for cornerback Phillip Buchanon. The trade isn’t yet official, pending the usual logistics that surround such transactions.

“It will probably be another 24 hours before this thing would be officially announced and completed,” general manager Charley Casserly said this afternoon before his annual pre-draft press conference. “What needs to be done is the physical and then the paperwork cleared by the league. Once we get that done, there will be an official announcement, but we don’t anticipate any issues.”

Buchanon, the 17th overall selection of the 2002 draft, is one of the most athletic young defensive backs in the league. He owns 11 career interceptions, returning four for touchdowns. He has also returned three punts for scores.

“As you look at the trade, this is nothing more than an attempt to upgrade our football team,” Capers said. “We scouted Phillip in our first year back in 2002 and we really liked him. We think he has the speed, the quickness and the athletic ability and he’s also doubled as a punt return man and done very well at that.”

Buchanon made an instant impact as a rookie, collecting 21 tackles and two picks, returning the second 81 yards for a touchdown at Buffalo to earn AFC Defensive Player of the Week honors. In one game against Tennessee, he returned a punt 83 yards for a touchdown and lateraled another punt to running back Terry Kirby for a 79-yard score. But Buchanon injured his wrist in Week 6 and landed on injured reserve.

In 2003, Buchanon started 11 of 16 games at right cornerback, tying for second in the AFC with six interceptions. He returned two of those for scores, totaling 176 yards on the six picks. Buchanon also returned two punts for touchdowns, averaging 13.6 yards per return.

Last season Buchanon started the first 14 games of the season and still paced the Raiders with three picks. But it was at times a bumpy ride. New head coach Norv Turner yanked Buchanon from the secondary in a game at Carolina on Nov. 7 and later replaced him on punt returns with Doug Gabriel. In the days leading up to the draft, the Raiders decided to gauge interest in Buchanon in the trade market.

“We became aware a short time ago that he was available in a trade,” Casserly said. “This week we talked to the Raiders and discussed what they were looking for and we had another discussion about it yesterday. Last night at the baseball game – we took our scouts to the game -- we completed the trade. It happened pretty fast over the past couple of days.”

With his playmaking ability, Buchanon has the opportunity to make a strong Texans secondary even stronger. Second-year pro Dunta Robinson tied for the lead among NFL rookies last season with six picks. Veteran Aaron Glenn intercepted five passes last season and has picked off 11 since coming to Houston in 2002. Whether Buchanon plays nickel at the outset or starts remains to be seen. But at just 24 years of age, if he doesn’t start right away, he can be groomed to replace Glenn, who turns 33 a few weeks before training camp.

“You’re always going to try and generate as competitive a situation as you can,” Capers said. “If you can do that, it brings out the best in everybody. It gives us a good mix and cover people and it certainly gives us another young corner.

“I met with Aaron this morning and his reaction was positive. Aaron is a competitor and Aaron has a lot of confidence in his ability. I think like everything, Aaron looks forward to the challenge.”

Buchanon can also boast an 11-yard career average on punt returns, although his average dipped from 13.6 in 2003 to 5.8 in 2004. He has three punt return touchdowns to his credit, the last coming in the 2003 season finale. The Texans signed veteran returner Reggie Swinton earlier this week to compete with incumbent J.J. Moses. Where Buchanon fits in on that front also remains to be seen.

“He certainly can get in the mix as a punt returner,” Capers said. “Whether he would end up being our punt returner, we’ll just have to see how this all works out.”

It’s no surprise that Buchanon has proved to be a versatile pro, considering his background as a four-sport standout at Lehigh High School in Fort Myers, Fla. Besides all-state honors in football, he hit .463 at the plate, scored 20 points per game on the hardwood and ran a 10.5 100m. Buchanon eventually signed at Miami, where lined up opposite new teammate Andre Johnson in practice and helped the ‘Canes win the 2001 national title. He applied for the draft as a junior after that season.

Cornerback was one of the positions the Texans were looking at come draft day. But at the 13th selection, the draft’s top two corners – Miami’s Antrel Rolle and West Virginia’s Adam Jones – would have likely been off the board. Now the Texans have the luxury of a young corner with experience and, in reality, it cost them just one pick, considering they had acquired an additional third-rounder from Dallas in last year’s Drew Henson trade.

“Are you going to acquire a player as talented as Phillip Buchanon in the second round of the draft?” Casserly asked. “The answer is no.”

And now Casserly will have to slightly amend his plans for Saturday. But he doesn’t mind.

“I guess I have to add something to what I said before today,” Casserly said. “We’re going to take any position in the first round except quarterback…and now cornerback.”

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=1633

LBC_Justin
04-20-2005, 03:11 PM
To be honest, I question his willingness to learn from Glenn as well...Buchanon has made it clear throughout his career that he wants to be the next "Primetime" and I heard he was receiving coaching from Deion as well...While Glenn has had a great career, he doesn't have the reputation that Deion has/had and I could see PB thinking, "Who is this guy? He's no Deion" and not listening to him...I'm optimistic, though...

Deion might have been the best CB ever. I don't blame Buchanon for wanting to be him. But he needs to Forget being the best in the league, he is going to have his hands full trying to top a hungry young Dunta Robinson if he wants to be the top dog on the Texans. Hopefully they will push each other to be better, with Glenn(if he is still around) mentoring along the way.

Panther5407
04-20-2005, 03:14 PM
Alright, can someone get this strait for me. Who are gonna be the #1 corner, #2 corner, slot and so forth? Thanks.

TEXANS84
04-20-2005, 03:28 PM
Thanks to my Raiderfans at their board, they've agreed that this is the most honest description of Phillip Buchanan:

Posted by De-Cleater:
1st....he calls himself "showtime" that should tell you something
2nd ...he asked for a trade publicly...that should tell you something
3rd....he is 5'9" and has trouble covering the slant, he also bites on pump fakes (Always trying to make the big play and gets burned)
4th. Guy had an amazing year returning punts for us....a real shaker...but LY he let 5-6 balls bounce in front of him or missed the catch.
5th....he has upside if someone can get his head screwed on straight.....he is a "quick" player and I have seen no lack of tackling on his part..he is small but sticks his head in there.

basicly this....very quick...has good hands has all the physical things you want except height....mentaly he is a mess...Bites on pump fakes....cant stick a reciver due to his size on slants....will gamble and give up 30 yds instead of play it safe and tackle him for a 7 yd gain.........has returned numerous picks for td's.......bottomline is he GAMBLES WAY to much.....if someone can get in his head he is a talent but remember what I said...he calls himself "Showtime"....his head is screwed up. In an interview with a TV reporter he refered to himself in the 3rd person his quote "Well Showtime just needs to get ready for this weeks game"....he has issues but is talented....he wore thin here

D-ReK
04-20-2005, 03:34 PM
Deion might have been the best CB ever. I don't blame Buchanon for wanting to be him. But he needs to Forget being the best in the league, he is going to have his hands full trying to top a hungry young Dunta Robinson if he wants to be the top dog on the Texans. Hopefully they will push each other to be better, with Glenn(if he is still around) mentoring along the way.

D-Rob and Buchanon are both cocky guys and I could see them developing some sort of friendly rivalry in the future...It should be fun to watch...

Alright, can someone get this strait for me. Who are gonna be the #1 corner, #2 corner, slot and so forth? Thanks.

I think the LCB spot is still Glenn's, but the staff may trust Dunta enough to have him there...The other will be the RCB...Buchanon will be third on the depth chart, but play on the outside on nickle situations, with Dunta playing inside...Our fourth CB will be Petey Faggins...

D-ReK
04-20-2005, 03:38 PM
Thanks to my Raiderfans at their board, they've agreed that this is the most honest description of Phillip Buchanan:

Posted by De-Cleater:

I may be naive, but I think most of his "mental" problems can be ironed out by Hoke and Capers...When he's in, we should have the FS behind him though in case he gambles and loses...

canadiantexan
04-20-2005, 03:39 PM
I think the LCB spot is still Glenn's, but the staff may trust Dunta enough to have him there...The other will be the RCB...Buchanon will be third on the depth chart, but play on the outside on nickle situations, with Dunta playing inside...Our fourth CB will be Petey Faggins...

I think that's exactly were they will play. no suprises here that's really the only way to play it.

canadiantexan
04-20-2005, 03:40 PM
Thanks to my Raiderfans at their board, they've agreed that this is the most honest description of Phillip Buchanan

would that have been their "honest description a week ago?

TigerBait
04-20-2005, 04:03 PM
Both D-Rob and Buc are 5'10'' 185. Both are extremely fast, quick, and have "fluid hips" making them exellent in the open field. Not to mention they both have cocky attitudes as said above...Deja Vu!

Youngstown Colt
04-20-2005, 04:17 PM
I know plenty of raiders fans, and these desecriptions you're getting of PB, were there long before he asked for a trade.

Don't chalk this up to "a colts fan is lying because he's scared" many raiders fans got over this guys novelty after the first year, and many of them gave him the nickname "toast" for the way he gambles on everything.

Unless, you can fix his mental problems and actually get him to buy into something and get over his "da U" mentality (I know andre doesn't have it) then you will have a scary corner.

TigerBait
04-20-2005, 04:22 PM
I know plenty of raiders fans, and these desecriptions you're getting of PB, were there long before he asked for a trade.

Don't chalk this up to "a colts fan is lying because he's scared" many raiders fans got over this guys novelty after the first year, and many of them gave him the nickname "toast" for the way he gambles on everything.

Unless, you can fix his mental problems and actually get him to buy into something and get over his "da U" mentality (I know andre doesn't have it) then you will have a scary corner.
So they nicknames him "Toast"?, how awsome it doesnt even have anything to do with his name! unlike the infamous nickname, "P-Burnt". How original, how great, how clever these Raider fans are!

Hervoyel
04-20-2005, 04:25 PM
He just finished his third season right? Well, it's not like I've never watched a young DB get toasted before and I can tell you honestly I wanted Chris Dishman's head on a platter for some of the things he did in his first couple of seasons.

If a bunch of Raider fans are ready to give up on this guy after three years then great, bring him on. Typical instant gratification demanding fans. We're going to get him at just the right time and two years from now the Raider Nation is going to be bitching about how the gave away this guy.

TigerBait
04-20-2005, 04:30 PM
The bottom line is Texans fans will continue to believe they have gotten the better end of the deal, while Raiders fans think that they have. People are naturally biased. Until Buc has a horrible year, and the picks the Raiders recieved went to good use and for effective players, or Buc does verry well next year and the picks the Raiders recieved were use completely uselessly, we cannot make an accurate decision regarding who "stole" what.

Hervoyel
04-20-2005, 04:33 PM
The bottom line is Texans fans will continue to believe they have gotten the better end of the deal, while Raiders fans think that they have. People are naturally biased. Until Buc has a horrible year, and the picks the Raiders recieved went to good use and for effective players, or Buc does verry well next year and the picks the Raiders recieved were use completely uselessly, we cannot make an accurate decision regarding who "stole" what.


100% correct.

wiley2002
04-20-2005, 04:37 PM
This PB trade is just the medicine I needed to get over the whole Sharper Image drama.

Nawzer
04-20-2005, 04:38 PM
Look, the reason the Raiders traded Phillip Buchanon was because he simply did not play well for them. Forget about the mental issue but if Buchanon played well last year they wouldn't have traded for him. I like this trade based on Buchanon's potential and because in a weak draft class this year we can afford to trade a 2nd and a 3rd. I mentioned earlier on this thread that there is no guarantee that these 2nd and 3rd rounders will become viable starters for us. So in those terms I like this trade. But at the same time I realize that the Texans better be sure about Buchanon because he was not good last year. But I trust in Charley Casserly and our scouting department and hopefully they will turn Buchanon's career around.

El Tejano
04-20-2005, 04:42 PM
I think for the time being you will see Dunta and Glenn as #1 and #2 and Buch as #3 on nickels.

Gilly
04-20-2005, 04:45 PM
the more I ponder this trade the more I like it. Now we need Barron at 13.

DR, Faggins, Buhcannon, and Glen, I like it. 3 young guys and a classy vet to teach them, its hard to go wrong.

TigerBait
04-20-2005, 04:50 PM
the more I ponder this trade the more I like it. Now we need Barron at 13.

DR, Faggins, Buhcannon, and Glen, I like it. 3 young guys and a classy vet to teach them, its hard to go wrong.
u know what, i really dont mind picking Barron anymore, now that we have PB , however i wish we could just trade down.

tiger06
04-20-2005, 04:56 PM
Unless a guy like Benson, Ware, or Merriman falls to us at 13, I like the idea of trading down and gaining the 2nd round pick we lost. We could then use our later 1st rounder to get a WR like Clayton or White or an OL like Baas.

wiley2002
04-20-2005, 04:57 PM
Barron or Baas. What's it matter anymore? Make these picks count! :woot

D-ReK
04-20-2005, 04:57 PM
The point remains that Barron isn't an impact guy and we could use impact guys at WR and OLB, but this is draft talk in the Bull Pen, so I digress and strongly recommend you take all draft talk to the 2005 NFL Draft forum...

So with Buchanon in the fold, what does everyone think the over/under is on Glenn's remaining years here? I'm almost positive he'll be starting here this year, but what if Buchanon shows well next season? Would we ask Glenn to restructure, cut him, trade him, or reduce his role here? I like Glenn a lot since we're from the same area, so I'd love to see him retire here...

aj.
04-20-2005, 05:01 PM
The environment here will be much better than what it was in Oakland. Going through that disastrous year in 2003 would have tested anyone's patience. Players were calling out coaches. Then Norv comes in with a new staff. That place has been a disaster since Gruden left.

Here, he comes into a more stable situation with people he knows - AJ is a close friend from what I've heard. Hoke knows him. He's always had a lot of upside but I don't think he's had the structure or system around him in the NFL the last two years to maximize his potential - and minimize the selfish part. He's also three years older and maybe he's at that age where he can start to figure it out. He was a young pup of 21 when he went to Oakland. He's only 3 months older than Gaffney.

AndroidRaider24
04-20-2005, 05:15 PM
Too bad you guys didnt still have Sharper , i wouldnt mind taking him, but like Tiger said both teams fans think they got the better. IMO both teams did great , PB is still 24 and cheap , Raiders need some draft picks to draft the massive shortage at LBs... im sorry i came off as a troll yesterday, i wish the Texans good luck with him !

Enormo
04-20-2005, 05:18 PM
So it looks like it's pretty much a concensus: Texans fans like the trade, but Titan and Raider fans don't :hmmm: ...I like that...If we can keep his attitude in check, then we may have gotten a steal...

Of course both Raider and Texan fans are going to have opinions. But take a look at the posts from other teams' fans in the first thread... especially the AFC West Teams that watch the Raiders all season. Buchanon for a 2nd and a 3rd is highway robbery.

Who knows, maybe your front office saw something in him that the Raiders didn't. Maybe they will know how to use him. It happens. Look at Steve Foley after he came to the Chargers. He's been a monster for us. But don't base your optimism on his past play. It stunk. It stunk so much that Buchanon was fodder for the Chargers' foums whenever the Gayders came to town.

And, yes, I am biased... against the Raiders. I would love to say that they got the shaft. Nothing would please me more. But a 2nd and a 3rd in a draft that may not be great in star quality but has plenty of depth... man, that just seems exhorbitant.

Vinny
04-20-2005, 05:20 PM
The Texans have dedicated scouts that just scout the pro game. Most of us are not going to worry what a bunch of net-fans think. We should be fine.

Enormo
04-20-2005, 05:20 PM
Unless a guy like Benson, Ware, or Merriman falls to us at 13, I like the idea of trading down and gaining the 2nd round pick we lost. We could then use our later 1st rounder to get a WR like Clayton or White or an OL like Baas.

I'm not up to date on your need situation but I think this would be your best move... if available.

Between Dallas and us I think it would be a real gamble to hope for one of those two guys.

Enormo
04-20-2005, 05:22 PM
The Texans have dedicated scouts that just scout the pro game. Most of us are not going to worry what a bunch of net-fans think. We should be fine.

Yeah but the Raiders' had scouts too. Plus a whole coaching staff evaluating multiple seasons of play.

Vinny
04-20-2005, 05:26 PM
Yeah but the Raiders' had scouts too. Plus a whole coaching staff evaluating multiple seasons of play.I kinda assumed as much. My point is I'm not going to worry about all the derog net quotes from anonymous fans who range from 14 year olds to people who may or may not know what they are looking at when they watch a football game. Casserly likes to take extra picks like this extra Henson 3rd and package for players or picks. He stated that we would not find a player ready to play like Buchannon in the 2nd round. Mission accomplished, Buchannon is our 2nd round pick now. We will just have to wait for rounds 1 and 3 on Saturday.

D-ReK
04-20-2005, 05:29 PM
Of course both Raider and Texan fans are going to have opinions. But take a look at the posts from other teams' fans in the first thread... especially the AFC West Teams that watch the Raiders all season. Buchanon for a 2nd and a 3rd is highway robbery.

I guess you didn't know that there is a 50% chance that a 2nd round pick will ever become a starter and a 30% chance that a 3rd rounder will ever become a starter...The Redskins were thinking about giving up the 9th overall for Buchanon and the 38th overall, so based on that, we got a steal...Is there going to be a 2nd or 3rd rounder that has the measurables that Buchanon has? Of course not...This is a weak draft, and I couldn't care less about our 2nd round pick and our second 3rd round pick...He is a proven game breaker, like it or not...But ummm, yeah, we got got raped in this deal :rolleyes: ...Get real dude...

AndroidRaider24
04-20-2005, 05:31 PM
The Redskins were thinking about giving up the 9th overall for Buchanon and the 38th overall, so based on that, we got a steal...
Im sorry D-Rek but you are sadly mistaken, they never were going to do that, the even denied the trade rumors publicly ...

MojoX
04-20-2005, 05:37 PM
Yeah but the Raiders' had scouts too. Plus a whole coaching staff evaluating multiple seasons of play.
That's not saying much... it's the Raiders--the same guys who thought Sapp could be a 3-4 end. PB was an arrogant, young kid in a poisonous environment. His game was waning, his attitude was worsening and in the end he wanted out and he got out.

D-ReK
04-20-2005, 05:39 PM
Im sorry D-Rek but you are sadly mistaken, they never were going to do that, the even denied the trade rumors publicly ...

Of course they would deny those rumors...Making that trade would make them look dumber than everyone already percieves them to be...

blockhead83
04-20-2005, 05:40 PM
It was a good trade for both teams. They get depth picks in a decent depth draft (not alot of star power here), and we get a young, proven corner. He's by no means a pro-bowler, but as alot of you have pointed out, he basically represents our 2nd round pick, and he's better than any CB's available in the 2nd round of the draft in my, and Casserly's, opinion. He's got alot of upside, and he could flourish in Houston and eventually become a very good #2 for us.

Enormo
04-20-2005, 05:42 PM
I kinda assumed as much. My point is I'm not going to worry about all the derog net quotes from anonymous fans who range from 14 year olds to people who may or may not know what they are looking at when they watch a football game. Casserly likes to take extra picks like this extra Henson 3rd and package for players or picks. He stated that we would not find a player ready to play like Buchannon in the 2nd round. Mission accomplished, Buchannon is our 2nd round pick now. We will just have to wait for rounds 1 and 3 now.

Derogatory quotes? The only derogatory quotes I have heard are from you. The quotes from other Teams fans seem to be pretty balance and well intentioned... and not "from 14 year olds and know nothings".

Personally, I just felt like chiming in on this forum because I follow other AFC West teams pretty closely and Buchanon frequently gets discussed on the Chargers boards I belong to. I thought some people on this board might find an opinion outside a Raider/Texan opinion to be interesting.

I like the Texans and I hate the Raiders... I have no interest in "sticking it to you guys."

I just think that based on PBs performance a 2nd and a 3rd was too much. I think it would have been better spent on trading up (seems like plenty of teams would be willing to trade down in this draft) and grabbing Rolle or Jones . Especially Jones because he seems to be in the same mould as PB... except he's not a headcase yet.

Granted, you wouldn't get the experience that your GM wanted. But IMO (and opinions *are* what these forums are about) I would rather have incredible potential with his head on his shoulders than a poor player who is a lockerroom cancer but has a couple of years under his belt. Especially, if he is going to be starting out covering the slot in a nickel role.

AndroidRaider24
04-20-2005, 05:42 PM
Of course they would deny those rumors...Making that trade would make them look dumber than everyone already percieves them to be...
true , after all , they just got robbed by the Broncos......

Vinny
04-20-2005, 05:47 PM
Derogatory quotes? The only derogatory quotes I have heard are from you. You need not be that defensive. I wasn't talking about you. I know you have read the two threads. My posts are not derogatory, just matter of fact.

LikeABoss
04-20-2005, 05:49 PM
I'm still trying to understand why Charger and Raider fans are posting in here more than the Texan fans :wacko:

Fiddy
04-20-2005, 06:10 PM
Well, we cant argue one thing: Buchanon has style. :D
The Raiders had been trying to trade Buchanon in recent weeks. The team talked to the Washington Redskins about the self-assured Buchanon, who typically refers to himself in the third person and arrived at training camp in 2003 as a second-year pro in a limousine and wearing a fancy pajama suit. http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8401694

texan279
04-20-2005, 06:24 PM
I might be crazy for thinking this, but does anyone else think that we might have traded for Buchanon to use him in a trade on draft day, maybe sending Buchanon and our #13 to one of the teams that are picking maybe #1-#6 or #7? Or does Buchanon not have the attitude problem that some people try to say that he has?

D-ReK
04-20-2005, 06:29 PM
I might be crazy for thinking this, but does anyone else think that we might have traded for Buchanon to use him in a trade on draft day, maybe sending Buchanon and our #13 to one of the teams that are picking maybe #1-#6 or #7? Or does Buchanon not have the attitude problem that some people try to say that he has?

The idea has been brought up before, and I wouldn't mind trading him if we could get a guy like Antrel Rolle since he has the size that our CBs don't have, so he could match up with bigger WRs...

texasguy346
04-20-2005, 06:30 PM
That's an interesting idea especially since the Titans are likely looking to pick up a CB at #6. It's tough to say though because we've got no idea how the Titans have the CBs like Rolle or Pac Man or Rodgers graded out compared to Buchannon. I'd like to say that it isn't likely to happen, but with CC at the helm draft day is always unpredictable.

MikeMc
04-20-2005, 06:32 PM
Issues people keep bringing up that are critical of the Trade:

1) PB was a "cancer" for OAK.

--- He is now in a "family" environment surrounded with people he is familiar with. Good friend from college & Miami (AJ), and familliarity with DB coach (Hoke) who happened to form a relationship with PB when he was a coach at Florida trying to recruit PB.

2) PB has not played up to his potential.

--- The coaching staff was a wreck and the lockerroom was already a problem. Being with a team that is as structured and disciplined as the Texans will do nothing but bring out the best from PB.

AJ, canadian and others touched on these facts. I myself have begun to embrace this trade. Now, if the Texans trade down and pickup a 3rd rounder, I'd say the 2nd round pick was worth it for PB. However, after last years' draft surprise (trading up for Babin), I would not rule anything out for this weekend. One thing is for sure, the Texans staff sure know how to play the Drama and keep the fans in suspense!

texan279
04-20-2005, 06:35 PM
Well, I was just wondering. I have been thinking about this trade today, and it seems weird to me. Even though I don't know a lot about Buchanon, he does not seem to be the type of player (character wise) that I am not used to seeing on our team, he seems like a "me" type of player, like nicknaming himself "Showtime" and talking about himself in the 3rd person, but like I said I don't know much about him at all. I was thinking maybe we trade up into the top 5 or 6 and pick up DJ if he is still there. :hmmm: Sorry if my thoughts on the Buchanon thing are a little off, don't get me wrong whatever we can do to improve our team I am all for it, my brain is a little fried this week... :wacko:

scourge
04-20-2005, 06:35 PM
I would suspect that if he played well this season he'd get a decent contract extension for the '06 season. I like this trade, but one thing bothers me. Since its a trade and not a FA signing, does he really want to be a Texan? Because if he doesnt want to be here then he'll probably try and leave when this contract is up...

Grid
04-20-2005, 06:41 PM
Well we have built a solid foundation of character for this team. We have hard working, humble, sportsmanlike players.

However, you would be shooting yourself in the foot if you avoided players with Egos. The NFL is full of egos and alot of the best players in the league are sporting some of the biggest egos.

All we can hope is that the foundation we have built will allow us to convert the egomaniacs that we sign into good, mature players.

Grid
04-20-2005, 06:48 PM
Derogatory quotes? The only derogatory quotes I have heard are from you. The quotes from other Teams fans seem to be pretty balance and well intentioned... and not "from 14 year olds and know nothings".

Personally, I just felt like chiming in on this forum because I follow other AFC West teams pretty closely and Buchanon frequently gets discussed on the Chargers boards I belong to. I thought some people on this board might find an opinion outside a Raider/Texan opinion to be interesting.

I like the Texans and I hate the Raiders... I have no interest in "sticking it to you guys."

I just think that based on PBs performance a 2nd and a 3rd was too much. I think it would have been better spent on trading up (seems like plenty of teams would be willing to trade down in this draft) and grabbing Rolle or Jones . Especially Jones because he seems to be in the same mould as PB... except he's not a headcase yet.

Granted, you wouldn't get the experience that your GM wanted. But IMO (and opinions *are* what these forums are about) I would rather have incredible potential with his head on his shoulders than a poor player who is a lockerroom cancer but has a couple of years under his belt. Especially, if he is going to be starting out covering the slot in a nickel role.




Two words for ya.

Steve.. Foley..

think about it.



as for a 2nd and 3rd being too much.

we had 2 3rds. We got one of those thirds from the drew henson trade (6th for a 3rd)

so really.. we traded a 2nd and a 6th. and moved up in the 3rd (we kept the cowboy's #73)

This is great value for a young player with Buchanan's talents, who just wants a new start somewhere else.

TigerBait
04-20-2005, 06:49 PM
So the Raiders traded Jolly and three 2005 draft picks for the 26th overall? 2 seconds and a third mabye? any1 have anymore info on this trade?

*Edit* well they still have a second rounder, so.....

texan279
04-20-2005, 06:54 PM
Looks like things are going to get interesting in the next 72 hours...I have never really followed the draft like this before, I never realized so much went on, or is this just a busy year?

scourge
04-20-2005, 07:05 PM
I would suspect that if he played well this season he'd get a decent contract extension for the '06 season. I like this trade, but one thing bothers me. Since its a trade and not a FA signing, does he really want to be a Texan? Because if he doesnt want to be here then he'll probably try and leave when this contract is up...

Buchanon's agent told Casserly that Buchanon is happy to be headed to Houston, where he will be teammates with close friend Andre Johnson.
nfl.com (http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/HOU/8403867)

I knew they had played together at the U, but didnt know they were all that close... his agent saying he's happy to be heading here makes me like this all the more.

Enormo
04-20-2005, 07:15 PM
Two words for ya.

Steve.. Foley..

think about it.



as for a 2nd and 3rd being too much.

we had 2 3rds. We got one of those thirds from the drew henson trade (6th for a 3rd)

so really.. we traded a 2nd and a 6th. and moved up in the 3rd (we kept the cowboy's #73)

This is great value for a young player with Buchanan's talents, who just wants a new start somewhere else.


I have thought about it. I already brought up Foley in one of my earlier posts and I've been saying all this with the caveat of "I hope whatever the Texans front office sees in Buchanon pans out".

But in all honesty there's not much to "think about." Just because one poorly performing player turns out to be a diamond in the rough doesn't mean that every player like this will be the same.

And I don't know much about Foley pre-Charger days but I would bet that he wasn't a lockerroom cancer like Buchanon has been.

And no... you didn't give away a 6th. You gave away a third. If I had an accountant who worked numbers like that he would be looking for another job.

If it makes all of you glass half full guys happy, there are some on the Chargers boards who think that Buchanon under the right circumstances will perform well. If he has regular support over the top and you can put some pressure on the QB he will come up with some big plays for you guys. But don't do those two things and he will get burned... just like I've watched him get burned since near the beginning of his career. Or maybe your coaches can convince him to settle down and not bite on every pump fake by the QB and move by a WR.

I hope he pans out for you guys. But if you think this was simply a great deal for a player who simply needed a change I think you've got a case of the "Go Texans! Rah! Rahs!". This guy has problems on and off the field. He is a risk and a project.

infantrycak
04-20-2005, 07:16 PM
The idea has been brought up before, and I wouldn't mind trading him if we could get a guy like Antrel Rolle since he has the size that our CBs don't have, so he could match up with bigger WRs...

It would appear the Texans' coaching and scouting staffs do not share many fans' opinions on the advantages of matching bigger CB's on bigger WR's:

Aaron Glenn--5' 9" 185 lbs
Dunta Robinson--5' 10" 174 lbs
Demarcus Faggins--5' 10" 178 lbs
Phillip Buchanon--5' 10" 185 lbs

Seems like they are pretty consistant in what they are looking for and it ain't big CB's.

D-ReK
04-20-2005, 07:23 PM
It would appear the Texans' coaching and scouting staffs do not share many fans' opinions on the advantages of matching bigger CB's on bigger WR's:

Aaron Glenn--5' 9" 185 lbs
Dunta Robinson--5' 10" 174 lbs
Demarcus Faggins--5' 10" 178 lbs
Phillip Buchanon--5' 10" 185 lbs

Seems like they are pretty consistant in what they are looking for and it ain't big CB's.

We did have Coleman playing CB though, and he's 6'2"...Casserly has already said he liked Rolle and he was brought in for a visit, though it is possible that it was all just positioning on his part...I think size may be overrated though, and can be made up for by a good vertical and proper positioning, which is what Glenn excels at...Hopefully he can teach a few things to Buchanon, assuming we keep him, of course...

Wolf
04-20-2005, 07:25 PM
not sure if we will try to get a CB...I mean cap wise it would cost us (for top10 pick)... (meaning why not trade up for DJ if that is who we are targeting instead of CB)

Buchanon has two years remaining on the contract he signed with the Raiders as a rookie. His base salaries will pay him $700,000 this season and $800,000 in 2006. The $4 million signing bonus Buchanon received as a rookie will not affect the Texans' cap, as it will accelerate to the Raiders' cap this year.

www.houstonprofootball.com

Grid
04-20-2005, 07:32 PM
But in all honesty there's not much to "think about." Just because one poorly performing player turns out to be a diamond in the rough doesn't mean that every player like this will be the same.

And I don't know much about Foley pre-Charger days but I would bet that he wasn't a lockerroom cancer like Buchanon has been.

And neither you or I can say who will do better somewhere else, and who wont. So its kinda pointless for you to say he will keep sucking when you have nothing to base that on.

And he has been playing for the Raiders :P. Of course he became a "lockerroom cancer".. but he is coming to Houston where NO ONE is a lockerroom cancer, and he will be playing alongside his Andre Johnson (who was at the U with him) and training under John Hoke (who recruited him)

I would say that puts him in a very good position to finally get rid of some of that attitude and show his true potential.



If it makes all of you glass half full guys happy, there are some on the Chargers boards who think that Buchanon under the right circumstances will perform well. If he has regular support over the top and you can put some pressure on the QB he will come up with some big plays for you guys. But don't do those two things and he will get burned... just like I've watched him get burned since near the beginning of his career. Or maybe your coaches can convince him to settle down and not bite on every pump fake by the QB and move by a WR.

I hope he pans out for you guys. But if you think this was simply a great deal for a player who simply needed a change I think you've got a case of the "Go Texans! Rah! Rahs!". This guy has problems on and off the field. He is a risk and a project.

For one.. its pretty stupid of you to come to a Texans fan board and accuse them of being positive about the Texans. :wacko:

Two.. he has been in the league THREE seasons. he looked good his first season.. he developed his attitude and bad habits in his second season.. and he wanted to leave and refused to play hard in his third season. I would hardly say that that is enough info to call him a bust. If he can come here and get a fresh start.. there is no reason to beleive that he cant become the player he had the potential to be when he was drafted.

Why I am even bothering to write this is beyond me. You are a charger fan, on our bourd, telling us we are homers :rolleyes: . And on top of that.. we are talking the merits of a player who played for one of your rival teams, and got burned by you last year (when he wasnt playing hard, remember?)


It is all conjecture at this point.. and you are no more right than I am on this subject. So quit flingin around the stereotypes eh?

wiley2002
04-20-2005, 07:35 PM
For the Texans to get the biggest steal since the Louisianna Purchace and want to trade him off for moving up in the draft now would just be insane IMO. Let's see what happens come draft day.

Grid
04-20-2005, 07:35 PM
not sure if we will try to get a CB...I mean cap wise it would cost us (for top10 pick)... (meaning why not trade up for DJ if that is who we are targeting instead of CB)


Any chance of us getting DJ fell through the roof when we made this trade. Unless DJ falls to 13.

That is fine though because DJ was sound more and more questionable as the draft got closer :P. I think Merriman and Pollack are as good a prospect(s) as DJ... and one or both could be available to us at 13.

Erratic Assassin
04-20-2005, 07:37 PM
With that 13, do you think we go OL or DL, both could use some help, but I see more D-linemen available later in the draft but only 1 dominant O-lineman, that being Barron.

As much as I would love to see us upgrade our LT on offense, we REALLY need a defensive lineman or a linebacker. Our defensive line got real old real fast and our linebackers aren't making plays.

Defense is our most pressing need. Besides a rookie LT is going to make a lot of costly mistakes. I could handle rookie mistakes the last 3 years, but not next year. We should be making a serious run at the playoffs next year, so I'm not going to have a lot a patience for a rookie LT giving up sacks and penalties.

rdbrem
04-20-2005, 07:53 PM
I guess my big disappointment is that I'd like to see us upgrade the OL, and having given up two picks, I'm not sure we'll do that. On the other hand, Capers and Co. may have already figured out exactly how to upgrade the line without those picks.

Maybe they're waiting to pick up somebody June 1, or maybe they've got something in the works now. Just feel like after they went after Pace, they were intent on fixing part of the line this year.

Somehow, I think they've got a little more savvy than me. Hopefully will feel better Saturday or Sunday.

texan279
04-20-2005, 08:02 PM
I guess my big disappointment is that I'd like to see us upgrade the OL, and having given up two picks, I'm not sure we'll do that. On the other hand, Capers and Co. may have already figured out exactly how to upgrade the line without those picks.

I will admit, I have been ranting and raving the last few weeks about how we need to improve the O line and draft O line, but after thinking about it, I don't think this year's draft is the way to improve the O line. Our O line now has one full year together under their belt, so I am willing to give them one more year to see how they pan out, and if they don't pan out, we could draft O line in next year's draft, which should have much better O line talent than this year's draft. I am all for drafting defense with our first pick in this year's draft, I say we draft someone who could come in and start and be a monster on defense with our 1st pick this year, add him to Babin who has a year under his belt, DRob, Buchanon now and our defense should be good to go. And I know Vinny, this thread is getting off topic, but it was off topic when I got here... :whistle:

JustBonee
04-20-2005, 08:34 PM
Wonder what other surprises CC is going to spring on us.

Don't know if it's been posted in here somewhere, BUT Oakland traded that #47 to the Jets tonight.
Interesting week!

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/04/21/RAIDERS21.TMP

Enormo
04-20-2005, 08:47 PM
And neither you or I can say who will do better somewhere else, and who wont. So its kinda pointless for you to say he will keep sucking when you have nothing to base that on.

And he has been playing for the Raiders :P. Of course he became a "lockerroom cancer".. but he is coming to Houston where NO ONE is a lockerroom cancer, and he will be playing alongside his Andre Johnson (who was at the U with him) and training under John Hoke (who recruited him)

I would say that puts him in a very good position to finally get rid of some of that attitude and show his true potential.


For one.. its pretty stupid of you to come to a Texans fan board and accuse them of being positive about the Texans. :wacko:

Two.. he has been in the league THREE seasons. he looked good his first season.. he developed his attitude and bad habits in his second season.. and he wanted to leave and refused to play hard in his third season. I would hardly say that that is enough info to call him a bust. If he can come here and get a fresh start.. there is no reason to beleive that he cant become the player he had the potential to be when he was drafted.

Why I am even bothering to write this is beyond me. You are a charger fan, on our bourd, telling us we are homers :rolleyes: . And on top of that.. we are talking the merits of a player who played for one of your rival teams, and got burned by you last year (when he wasnt playing hard, remember?)


It is all conjecture at this point.. and you are no more right than I am on this subject. So quit flingin around the stereotypes eh?

Sorry you feel it necesary to lash out like that.

I think you guys have a good team and I said that I hope your coaches find the key to unlocking Buchanons potential.

Stereotypes? Buchanon a bust? Hey, you said it. I didn't.

Nice talking to all of you who wanted to have a discussion. Enjoy your board.

keyfro
04-20-2005, 08:53 PM
i think after hearing the press conference with casserly and capers it definitly sounds like we are trading down unless a true impact player falls to us...like benson or one of the top recievers...dj won't fall...i think we trade down somewhere between 16-24 and pick either clayton, spears, or one of the remaining DE/OLB's...the main question now is who is starting next to D-Rob...capers hinted that aaron might be placed as the third corner due to buchanan's ability...personally i see PB being our nickelback for a year but after that i'd say it's just up to competition to see who's better between him and glenn...either way i'm looking forward to the draft on saturday...it's the only good thing that seems to be going on this week

canadiantexan
04-20-2005, 08:54 PM
Wonder what other surprises CC is going to spring on us.

Don't know if it's been posted in here somewhere, BUT Oakland traded that #47 to the Jets tonight.
Interesting week!

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/04/21/RAIDERS21.TMP

what did they get for it ? sorry did'nt see the link

Wolf
04-20-2005, 08:56 PM
what did they get for it ?
it was their TE jolley and the no.2 to the Jets for the Jets #25 overall pick

Trapped
04-20-2005, 09:00 PM
kinda old stuff, but i don't like how the Raiders fan come in here and say we don't know how to draft in the past 3 years or so. LOL

they are the ones who drafted Nmandi Asomugha and Derick Gibson in the 1st rounds. lol.

TexanTom
04-20-2005, 09:09 PM
Buchanon's agent told Casserly that Buchanon is happy to be headed to Houston, where he will be teammates with close friend Andre Johnson.
nfl.com (http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/HOU/8403867)

I knew they had played together at the U, but didnt know they were all that close... his agent saying he's happy to be heading here makes me like this all the more.

Isn't his agent Rosenhaus? Has there been any talk that he wants a new contract or anything? I don't necessarily see anything he's done that deserves a bigger contract but I was just curious if we've actually heard "from the horse's mouth" that renegotiating his contract was/was not involved in this deal? Rosenhaus just makes me nervous....

outofhnd
04-20-2005, 09:11 PM
I love this trade.

This shows initiative Its telling me we are tired of projects and we are gonna get impact players now.

Buchanon was a cancer in the lockeroom so was Woodson, Barrett (missing in action) Robbins, and most of the Defense last year. You cant blame Buchanon for the whole defense last year Sapp was even disgusted at how the unit performed. I think the raiders are cleaning out the players they didnt like who have potential but were not happy so they are gone. Harris, Buchanon, had value so they traded for what they could get.

So lets look at needs now

WR - Bradford Resigning - Not our #1 Pick
OL - Barron - could be our target who knows.
LB - Plethora of mega athletic Tweeners this year most like where we go with #1 pick
CB - Well I think this deal tells all we need to know.
S - Davis too high at 13
RB - No way we need instant defensive starters.
TE - no fantastic TE
DL - Depends if Spears falls to us if we trade down then this is our #1

JustBonee
04-20-2005, 09:12 PM
what did they get for it ? sorry did'nt see the link

from that link:
Raiders deal tight end Jolley to Jets
Trade puts Oakland back in the first round

Nancy Gay, Chronicle Staff writer
Thursday, April 21, 2005

The Raiders moved back into the first round of Saturday's NFL Draft, agreeing to a trade deal with the Jets on Wednesday that will send fourth-year tight end Doug Jolley to New York, along with three 2005 picks, for the No. 26 overall pick and a seventh-round selection.

Once Jolley passes a physical and the trade becomes final, the Raiders will have a first-round pick, a second-round pick (No. 38 overall), two third-round selections (Nos. 69 and 78) and two sixth-round picks (Nos. 212 and 214).

In return, two NFL sources said the Jets will receive the second-round pick the Raiders acquired on Tuesday from Houston in the Phillip Buchanon deal (No. 47 overall), the 182nd and 185th picks overall (both in the sixth-round) as well as Jolley, 26, a former second-round pick out of Brigham Young in the 2002 draft.

The deal satisfies the Raiders' desire to jump back into the first round after surrendering the No. 7 overall pick to the Minnesota Vikings as part of the Randy Moss deal. It also gives them value for a player who had fallen off the map in Norv Turner’s deep ball offense.

utahmark
04-20-2005, 09:23 PM
as for a 2nd and 3rd being too much.

we had 2 3rds. We got one of those thirds from the drew henson trade (6th for a 3rd)

so really.. we traded a 2nd and a 6th. and moved up in the 3rd (we kept the cowboy's #73)

This is great value for a young player with Buchanan's talents, who just wants a new start somewhere else.

i hope the front office doesnt think like that. we work hard to get those extra picks. even though we turned our 6th into a 3rd. its a third now and should not be though of as a 6th.

two years ago we worked hard to get an extra pick from the raiders and spent it on hollings and a lot of people rationalized that it was a free pick so it would not matter if it was a bust. free pick or not it was a second round pick and should have been thought of as such. not much use in working to get those picks if you devalue them once you have em'.

dalemurphy
04-20-2005, 09:41 PM
Isn't his agent Rosenhaus? Has there been any talk that he wants a new contract or anything? I don't necessarily see anything he's done that deserves a bigger contract but I was just curious if we've actually heard "from the horse's mouth" that renegotiating his contract was/was not involved in this deal? Rosenhaus just makes me nervous....

Another reason why this is such a great deal. Once the team is convinced Buchanan is going to be a good player for us, they can offer to renegotiate his contract. Instead of signing him to a, hypothetically, 5 year $25 mill contract with a $10 million signing bonus in 2007, they can say... In addtion to the money you've already made for this season and next we'll extend it three more years. We'll give you an $8 million signing bonus and a 5 year deal worth $18 million starting today...

that would be a better deal for Buchanan because of what is left on his current deal and it would also be a bargain for the Texans.

chuckm
04-20-2005, 09:43 PM
I've heard all my life that your first instinct is usually right. I hope that doesn't apply to football trades because my first reaction was .......... OMG NOOOOOOO

chuckm
04-20-2005, 09:48 PM
Well mine was OMG YES!!!!!!!!!


Cool then since of our first impressions is sure to be wrong let's make it mine ....

UberDork
04-20-2005, 10:02 PM
two years ago we worked hard to get an extra pick from the raiders and spent it on hollings and a lot of people rationalized that it was a free pick so it would not matter if it was a bust. free pick or not it was a second round pick and should have been thought of as such. not much use in working to get those picks if you devalue them once you have em'.

The thing is we had no idea the Raiders would bend over so much the next year. We were looking at a late 2nd round pick when we went for Hollings. Weren't the Raiders in the Superbowl in 2003? We had no idea it would be the 2nd pick in the 2nd round or whatever that pick would have been. The Texans were playing it smart and one upping the other guys by offering a LATE 2nd round pick, until bam the Raiders, in a four point stance, get raided themselves the next season.

A late 2nd round pick was right along the lines of what Hollings was valued...many teams were offering up early 3rds for him.

infantrycak
04-20-2005, 10:28 PM
two years ago we worked hard to get an extra pick from the raiders and spent it on hollings and a lot of people rationalized that it was a free pick so it would not matter if it was a bust. free pick or not it was a second round pick and should have been thought of as such. not much use in working to get those picks if you devalue them once you have em'.

I don't recall anyone rationalizing it as a free pick. There were a number of people, myself included, that said it was very reasonable to guess the pick had the value of a very low 2nd rounder since the Raiders had just been in the Superbowl. Is there anyone who really wants to claim they forsaw them going from 31st pick in the round to #1?

This has some bearing on Buchanon's circumstances as well. The kid comes out and is having a great rookie season and then gets hurt preventing him from playing out the season and going to the Superbowl. He comes back as a lone shining figure with 6 INT's, 2 run back for TD's and 2 punt returns for TD's as the team disintegrates around him with the QB figting the coach, the coaches fighting each other, players hitting players, Woodson in his yearly salary gripe and public coaching criticism. Real conducive environment to learning and feeling appreciated there. New coach comes in his third year, new system, bad personnel moves--heck forget AJ beating Buchanon, Gaffney beat Woodson in that game. Yeah, he could have been more patient, but I can also completely understand why he would want to play somewhere else--like for a team with a top DB coach that knows him, a good buddy, an experienced mentor who likes teaching more than TV interviews. Seems like a good gamble (and there is some risk to it) on having one of the strongest secondaries around--how many teams sport three top 20 draft picks in their secondaries?

mean mark8
04-20-2005, 10:33 PM
Speed, Youth and Playmaking ability were needed in the Texans Secondary. They just got it. Glenn is still good but history shows he doesn't have much time left.


:

I don't know that I'd write off Glenn too soon. Darrel Green played until he was in his 40s. :cool:

WWJD
04-20-2005, 10:37 PM
There will be no way till Phillip gets on the field to know if this is a good trade or not...the nature of the business is that sometimes you take chances and I'm sure that is what the Texans are doing. They see that he's got alot of talent and took a chance.

I would not put Glenn in the same class as Darrell Green. That guy was a genetic freak playing as long as he did and so well. He represented the Redskins quite nicely.

michaelm
04-20-2005, 11:03 PM
. I think it would have been better spent on trading up (seems like plenty of teams would be willing to trade down in this draft) and grabbing Rolle or Jones . Especially Jones because he seems to be in the same mould as PB... except he's not a headcase yet.


If we used the exact same picks to trade up to get an unproven corner, then we would have spent three picks on him... the 2nd and the 3rd that were involved in the trade and the 1st that we got in the trade. You think that's what we should've done? WRONG!!!
Where we are sitting in the 1st, we wouldn't be able to get Rolle or Jones... and 13 is too early for any of the other CBs IMO. So, we would have been faced with taking (possibly) a second round CB @ #47... most likely, P.B. will turn out to be a better player than any CB we would draft @ that pick...

jacquescas
04-21-2005, 01:43 AM
with the 2 pick we had the best we could have done is move up to the 30 spot and there would not be a better prospect than buchanon at that spot, and definately not at that price.

scourge
04-21-2005, 04:11 AM
"My whole view is to come in and learn as much as I can learn from Aaron and to do everything I can to help," Buchanon said. "There was another team involved (Washington), but I'm glad it worked out here. Everything happened so quickly. I'm really hyped about it."

"I see myself fitting in like any other player," Buchanon said. "Some things went on (in Oakland) that I wasn't very happy with. It was mainly with some of the players. Some of them weren't ready to play."



article by Carlton @ the Chronic (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3145953)

TexanExile
04-21-2005, 07:35 AM
I got a kick out of DeAngelo Hall from the Falcons, who D-Rob completely eclipsed as a top-round DB draftee last year, talking about the Texans' acquisition of PB on NFL Total Access last night. Hall said the Texans were "crazy" to do that, because they have two established starters in Glenn and D-Rob. He added gravely that "somebody's gonna have to go inside" now to play the slot/nickel, like it was a huge insult that would destroy team chemistry.

Of course, he also said that he was given "instant respect" as a rookie DB and couldn't get the same INT numbers that "other rookies" did (meaning D-Rob, probably) because other teams didn't want to challenge him. Uh, dude, think it might also be because your backside was warming the bench due to injury for most of the regular season last year?

donbmt
04-21-2005, 08:36 AM
NFL.com (www.nfl.com) says nothing about the trade, I wonder why?

Vinny
04-21-2005, 08:47 AM
Hey Don, I think Buchannon needs to pass the physical and finalize the paperwork. That should happen today.

Blake
04-21-2005, 08:53 AM
NFL.com (www.nfl.com) says nothing about the trade, I wonder why?

Its there. Under the Raiders Jets trade link.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/HOU/8403867

Blake
04-21-2005, 08:58 AM
I got a kick out of DeAngelo Hall from the Falcons, who D-Rob completely eclipsed as a top-round DB draftee last year, talking about the Texans' acquisition of PB on NFL Total Access last night. Hall said the Texans were "crazy" to do that, because they have two established starters in Glenn and D-Rob. He added gravely that "somebody's gonna have to go inside" now to play the slot/nickel, like it was a huge insult that would destroy team chemistry.



Wow. You would think that Hall, a CB in the NFL would know Dunta played the slot/blitz position last year.

The Preacher
04-21-2005, 08:59 AM
Texans definitely got hosed on ESPN draft coverage yesterday. All they did was mention the trade with Lions' acquisition of Kevin Johnson. Then they went on to fuel talk in Washington with what's going on there for the next ten minutes. No respect it's never too early for bulletin board material.

texasguy346
04-21-2005, 09:04 AM
I really don't find it too surprising that Hall doesn't know how effective DRob is on the blitz. He's probably turned a blind eye to DRob since he had such a good year, and Hall was out with an injury. If he doesn't see Dunta's success then he doesn't have to acknowledge that DRob might have been the best CB coming out of the draft last year. The fact that he implied playing inside was an insult shows that he doesn't follow the NFL that closely. Ronde Barber played inside when the Bucs went to nickle and dime packages because he, too, excelled at blitzing. Yet he was the Bucs starting CB. The more versatile the player the better.

CaptainPatriot
04-21-2005, 09:59 AM
What exactly did the trade involve? I just saw that the Texans acquired Buchanon, which is fine by me as long as they didn't trade this year's number 1, which they didn't. With that 13, do you think we go OL or DL, both could use some help, but I see more D-linemen available later in the draft but only 1 dominant O-lineman, that being Barron. I think that we should go after Barron at 13, due to the fact that the secondary won't need as much help with Phillip as a 3rd corner. The offense, in my eyes, is only 1 or 2 pieces away from being great, so I say take these pieces this year early, and with your 3rd's, grab one of the hybrids that's left, as there are 3 or 4 that could be good who will still be there. That's all i got for now, later.


DL!!!!! Need more DL`s.You can never have enough DL`s

edo783
04-21-2005, 10:02 AM
It was pretty clear watching MeAngelo on TV that he was VERY aware that DRob had made him look shabby with his 6 ints. Couldn't even seem to get out his name when talking about it. Then of course he says "I couldn't show MY stuff cause I was injured". Which while true, is just him making an excuse rather that giving DRob props. IMO, it was clear he was not happy that DRob had such a good first year.

Youngstown Colt
04-21-2005, 11:12 AM
Hall wasn't necessarily talking down about Dunta, you know. Other rookies had some picks as well like jason david.

El Tejano
04-21-2005, 11:54 AM
But Dunta also had a couple of sacks from that Nickle position and actually forced a couple of fumbles but they were called back because the league wanted that QB to break a record that game.

Hervoyel
04-21-2005, 12:11 PM
DL!!!!! Need more DL`s.You can never have enough DL`s


You have a point, though on this team, in this system it's a combination of DL and LB's. We've got ourselves one hell of a secondary now so the next thing we need to do is give those guys a decent pass rush. Without it they'll look very ordinary.

Youngstown Colt
04-21-2005, 12:11 PM
But Dunta also had a couple of sacks from that Nickle position and actually forced a couple of fumbles but they were called back because the league wanted that QB to break a record that game.But Hall didn't say anything about sacks, I'm not sure where you're going with this.

LikeABoss
04-21-2005, 12:56 PM
article by Carlton @ the Chronic (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3145953)

That article is the truth :thumbup

canadiantexan
04-21-2005, 01:16 PM
That article is the truth :thumbup

Thanks for the link, I'm pumped about the trade. If PB is "pumped to be here" then I'm pumped to have him here. I am one of the fans who thought this trade was great as soon as I heard it, Casserly put it perfectly you are not going to draft anyone better than PB in the second round. I personally dont think you could get a better corner in the entire draft. We basically gave up a 2nd round pick and Drew Henson for PB ! what a deal, we'll have PB intercepting passes and taking punts back to the house instead of a 2nd and 3rd rounder trying to learn NFL football for their first couple years. This trade shows us the front office wants to win now and that is an encouraging thing.

chuckm
04-21-2005, 01:48 PM
There's a small poll going on ...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/index

about which team (Oakland, Jets, Texans) won the trade battle .... we're winning as of 1:45 ...

Nawzer
04-21-2005, 01:57 PM
Not only do we face the Colts high powered offense twice but we play some teams that have outstanding receivers. For example, the St.Louis Rams have Tory Holt, Isaac Bruce, and bunch of guys who will make plays for Marc Bulger. Then there are the Cardinals who have Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, and Bryant Johnson. Those guys should be even more better this year. Seattle has guys like Darrell Jackson, Bobby Engram, etc. Hence, you need more than 2 good corners to have success this year and the future and this trade gives us 3 very good corners.

D-ReK
04-21-2005, 02:02 PM
There's a small poll going on ...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/index

about which team (Oakland, Jets, Texans) won the trade battle .... we're winning as of 1:45 ...

As of 2:00, we're still winning by 5% :woot

El Tejano
04-21-2005, 02:48 PM
Not only do we face the Colts high powered offense twice but we play some teams that have outstanding receivers. For example, the St.Louis Rams have Tory Holt, Isaac Bruce, and bunch of guys who will make plays for Marc Bulger. Then there are the Cardinals who have Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, and Bryant Johnson. Those guys should be even more better this year. Seattle has guys like Darrell Jackson, Bobby Engram, etc. Hence, you need more than 2 good corners to have success this year and the future and this trade gives us 3 very good corners.
That is something I didn't think about. On paper now we look like we can win pretty much all of those games.

AndroidRaider24
04-22-2005, 12:04 AM
I thought you guys mite want to know : PB may legally change his name to "ShowTime" :D
Meanwhile, the Texans were raving about their acquisition of Buchanon, whom the team hopes will challenge veteran Aaron Glenn and second-year cornerback Dunta Robinson for a starting job.

"He's a great young player and I think he'll fit really well in our system here,'' Texans general manager Charley Casserly said. "We're excited about the deal.''

As for Buchanon's self-aggrandizing personality -- he has spoken recently about legally changing his name to "Showtime" and once arrived at Raiders' training camp in a stretch limousine wearing a Playboy pajama suit -- Casserly said Houston has the kind of disciplined coaching staff that can handle such an over-the-top character.

"He'll fit in well here. He's already close with (Texans wide receiver) Andre Johnson,'' Casserly said of Buchanon. "I think we'll get the best out of him.''

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/04/21/RAIDERS.TMP


Im all for it :D

D-ReK
04-22-2005, 12:13 AM
:rofl: So would his name be "Showtime Buchanon" or "Phillip Showtime"?

OzzO
04-22-2005, 08:17 AM
That's Mr. Time to you. He can change his name to "Greatest Showon Earth" for all I care, as long as he does what he was brought here to do.

WWJD
04-22-2005, 08:35 AM
Changing his name? How silly. :rolleyes: