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Texans34Life
06-27-2011, 09:08 AM
Damn, I would definitely give up a 3rd rounder for Steve Smith. Put him opposite Dre and have Walter in the slot??? :drool:

Unfortunately being a Texans fan, I'm going to feel like this..... :crying:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/06/25/2408020/when-the-nfl-gets-moving-5-things.html

Deal with Steve Smith

Or simply deal the disgruntled receiver.

Smith went to Panthers' management before the lockout to express his displeasure following a couple of frustrating seasons for the four-time Pro Bowler. Smith said recently he wants to play for a team committed to winning immediately, but would not say whether the Panthers were such a team.

At 32, Smith remains a big-play threat who could thrive in Panthers offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski's stretch-the-field system. But an unhappy Smith working with a first-year coach and quarterback might be more headache than it's worth.

The Panthers will try to get a proven player in return for Smith, who is due about $15million over the next two years. But a third-round pick might be enough to pull the trigger.

IDEXAN
06-27-2011, 10:19 AM
4th round pick, yes, but I'd be reluctant to cough up a third round pick for Smith.

DBCooper
06-27-2011, 10:34 AM
In a heartbeat!

Ole Miss Texan
06-27-2011, 10:38 AM
3rd rounder is too expensive for my liking.

Dutchrudder
06-27-2011, 10:42 AM
Give them a 5th + Steve Slaton and Amobi Okoye for Steve Smith and a 7th.

Texas T
06-27-2011, 10:56 AM
Why do some of you feel that a 3rd is too much?

Personally, it think he's worth it, he would give us a reliable #2 receiver to pair with AJ. How much better would our already good Offense be then??

I'm all for it!!

dalemurphy
06-27-2011, 11:16 AM
I'm a huge Steve Smith fan. However, the question isn't whether Smith would be an asset for the team but whether there are better options available. I concur with many that the Texans need another reliable playmaker at WR. However, I'd be reluctant to give up a mid round draft pick and take on his rather large contract and health concerns given this year's FA market.

The Texans have the opportunity to sign a very good and younger WR for similar or less money- without losing a draft pick. Here's a sampling of some of the better FA WRs this season (all but one of the list is 28 yrs or younger):

Sant. Holmes
Sidney Rice
Steve Smith (NYG)
B. Edwards
Lance Moore
James Jones
M. Sims-Walker
Steve Breaston
Santana Moss
Mark Clayton

Texecutioner
06-27-2011, 11:23 AM
I'm a huge Steve Smith fan. However, the question isn't whether Smith would be an asset for the team but whether there are better options available. I concur with many that the Texans need another reliable playmaker at WR. However, I'd be reluctant to give up a mid round draft pick and take on his rather large contract and health concerns given this year's FA market.

The Texans have the opportunity to sign a very good and younger WR for similar or less money- without losing a draft pick. Here's a sampling of some of the better FA WRs this season (all but one of the list is 28 yrs or younger):

Sant. Holmes
Sidney Rice
Steve Smith (NYG)
B. Edwards
Lance Moore
James Jones
M. Sims-Walker
Steve Breaston
Santana Moss
Mark Clayton

Other than Santonio Homes there is not one guy on that list better than Smith. I can't believe anyone would be against a 3rd rounder for Smith. That guy is a gamer and comes up huge in big games unlike the other ***** people have been clamoring for in here in Chad Johnson who always has come up short in the Bengals biggest games. Smith isn't about attention either. He works hard and probably has 3 good years left in him. A 3rd rounder? Lol! Please. I find it pretty funny how valuable people actually place 3rd round picks. Does anyone realize how many 3rd rounders around the league that get drafted that don't do anything?? Steve Smith is a proven commodity in this league and hasn't been garbage the last few years other than last season, but his team was in shambles before the season even started. A 3rd rounder would be getting Steve Smith on the cheap.

The Texans won't touch him with a ten foot pole though. He is to high profile for Rick Smith, and he isn't boy scout enough for Uncle Bob. He won't be here. Personally I hope the Patriots get him. He'd go off like hell with Tom Brady and he'd be that deep threat that the Pats are currently needing right now.

nero THE zero
06-27-2011, 11:25 AM
I'm a huge Steve Smith fan. However, the question isn't whether Smith would be an asset for the team but whether there are better options available. I concur with many that the Texans need another reliable playmaker at WR. However, I'd be reluctant to give up a mid round draft pick and take on his rather large contract and health concerns given this year's FA market.

The Texans have the opportunity to sign a very good and younger WR for similar or less money- without losing a draft pick. Here's a sampling of some of the better FA WRs this season (all but one of the list is 28 yrs or younger):

Sant. Holmes
Sidney Rice
Steve Smith (NYG)
B. Edwards
Lance Moore
James Jones
M. Sims-Walker
Steve Breaston
Santana Moss
Mark Clayton

The only player on that list that is better than Smith is Rice (and arguably Holmes who is nonstarter for a number of reasons), and he is a pretty big injury risk who will be getting a contract on par with AJ's.

I'd give a 3rd for Smith in an instant. No doubt about it. He not only provides what we need on the field, but off it as well. He's perfect.

ThaShark316
06-27-2011, 11:26 AM
I'm a huge Steve Smith fan. However, the question isn't whether Smith would be an asset for the team but whether there are better options available. I concur with many that the Texans need another reliable playmaker at WR. However, I'd be reluctant to give up a mid round draft pick and take on his rather large contract and health concerns given this year's FA market.

The Texans have the opportunity to sign a very good and younger WR for similar or less money- without losing a draft pick. Here's a sampling of some of the better FA WRs this season (all but one of the list is 28 yrs or younger):

Sant. Holmes Jets won't lose him
Sidney Rice He's going to want #1 money.
Steve Smith (NYG) Coming off knee surgery. Pass.
B. Edwards Drops too many passes.
Lance Moore Solid WR, but not sure if he's the answer at #2. Could be though.
James Jones Makes big plays but kind of has a case of the drops
M. Sims-Walker I'd be cool with this.
Steve Breaston 100 times yes, if possible!
Santana Moss He's 32 lol
Mark Clayton Nah no thanks. He's a slot WR

You got a decent list here, but you have to take a few off with their case of the drops. One thing we can't have is TWO WRs dropping passes. (Jones being 1)

houstonspartan
06-27-2011, 11:31 AM
Other than Santonio Homes there is not one guy on that list better than Smith. I can't believe anyone would be against a 3rd rounder for Smith. That guy is a gamer and comes up huge in big games unlike the other ***** people have been clamoring for in here in Chad Johnson who always has come up short in the Bengals biggest games. Smith isn't about attention either. He works hard and probably has 3 good years left in him. A 3rd rounder? Lol! Please. I find it pretty funny how valuable people actually place 3rd round picks. Does anyone realize how many 3rd rounders around the league that get drafted that don't do anything?? Steve Smith is a proven commodity in this league and hasn't been garbage the last few years other than last season, but his team was in shambles before the season even started. A 3rd rounder would be getting Steve Smith on the cheap.

The Texans won't touch him with a ten foot pole though. He is to high profile for Rick Smith, and he isn't boy scout enough for Uncle Bob. He won't be here. Personally I hope the Patriots get him. He'd go off like hell with Tom Brady and he'd be that deep threat that the Pats are currently needing right now.

Yeah. That incident where he got into a fight with his teammate has probably put him out of reach for the Texans, unfortunately. That would never fly here. Not a boy scout.

dalemurphy
06-27-2011, 11:58 AM
The only player on that list that is better than Smith is Rice (and arguably Holmes who is nonstarter for a number of reasons), and he is a pretty big injury risk who will be getting a contract on par with AJ's.

I'd give a 3rd for Smith in an instant. No doubt about it. He not only provides what we need on the field, but off it as well. He's perfect.

In the salary cap era, I think 2nd and 3rd round picks are very valuable. Teams get quality NFL players for pennies on the dollar of a 1st round pick or a second or third tier free agent. Obviously, Steve Smith is much better than 90% of the third round picks... However, he would also cost 7 times as much against the cap as the 3rd rounder.

Also, with A. Johnson, Foster, the deep crew of TEs... the Texans don't need a great player opposite Johnson (I'm not opposed to it, mind you)... They need a playmaker that can stress the defense opposite Johnson. I think they can get that for less money and without the loss of a draft pick via free agency. I also think they can get a guy heading into his prime for 5 years, instead of taking on a guy on the back side of his prime with only two years left on his contract.

All that being said: I would be pretty excited if the Texans grabbed Steve Smith this off-season. No doubt about that.

And, you guys are right. I think the Texans' organization wouldn't even consider acquiring him due to his brashness. That is unfortunate. While I generally agree with the Texans' policy regarding player character, sometimes they fail to recognize the difference between a bad guy and an intense one. Smith is intense and opinionated, but he'd be a positive influence in the locker room and on the field.

dalemurphy
06-27-2011, 12:00 PM
You got a decent list here, but you have to take a few off with their case of the drops. One thing we can't have is TWO WRs dropping passes. (Jones being 1)

Jacoby is a FA. I doubt he's back. His loss is the reason we desperately need a playmaker at WR. Fortunately, with the talent available, the Texans have an opportunity to upgrade from Jacoby (at least as a WR).

steelbtexan
06-27-2011, 12:11 PM
I cant believe you guys, not willing to give up a 3rd rd pick for Smith.

Yeah why would the Texans need another pro bowl WR? When they can use their 3rd rd pick on the likes of Antwaun Molden/Caldwell/J.Jones or the ever forgetable Charles Hill.

Yeah no need to add a guy like Smith who immediately woud become the 2nd best WR in Texans history. BTW, he would also become the best KR/PR in Texans history. Excluding the renowned animal abuser Jerome Mathis. (Even at 32 yrs old)

Nah lets keep that 3rd rd pick. It seems like a good idea. Saves Billionaire BoBBY about 13 mil.

dalemurphy
06-27-2011, 12:16 PM
I cant believe you guys, not willing to give up a 3rd rd pick for Smith.

Yeah why would the Texans need another pro bowl WR? When they can use their 3rd rd pick on the likes of Antwaun Molden/Caldwell/J.Jones or the ever forgetable Charles Hill.

Yeah no need to add a guy like Smith who immediately woud become the 2nd best WR in Texans history. BTW, he would also become the best KR/PR in Texans history. Excluding the renowned animal abuser Jerome Mathis. (Even at 32 yrs old)

Nah lets keep that 3rd rd pick. It seems like a good idea. Saves Billionaire BoBBY about 13 mil.

I don't care about McNair's financial status. I care about the salary cap.

I would rather have Lance Moore for the next 4 yrs instead of two, a 3rd round pick, and an additional $3million of room under the cap than Steve Smith. It's not a slam dunk, but I think it is what I'd prefer. I certainly haven't said I don't want Smith on the team. I'm only arguing that the deep and talented FA market offers an opportunity to address the need well without as high of a cost.

HoustonFrog
06-27-2011, 12:17 PM
I think management's way of thinking has crept into some of the fandom. I'm not saying that there aren't legit reasons why a 3rd rounder is valuable and should not be used....every debate has 2 sides. But in the NFL where every season is results oriented you do this deal in a second. Look at what Atlanta did just to move up and get Julio Jones. The sense that they are close and wanted to get the best players possible. I think that if you really belive Wade can make the defense presentable then you have to make some moves like this to get into the playoff zone. Saving picks for a rainy day with a GM like Smith is a waste. It is the same debate with CBs. People want to save cash and sign a bunch of 2nd tier guys hoping they fit when there isn't much time to take advantage of guys like AJ.

Blake
06-27-2011, 12:29 PM
We just drafted 1st round talent, Brandon Harris with our "3rd round" pick and people are ready to give up next years for Steve Smith who punched a teammate at practice, and has a history of injury...

Then yall will complain when we have to wait 64 picks from round 2 to round 4 in the 2012 draft.

steelbtexan
06-27-2011, 12:29 PM
I don't care about McNair's financial status. I care about the salary cap.

I would rather have Lance Moore for the next 4 yrs instead of two, a 3rd round pick, and an additional $3million of room under the cap than Steve Smith. It's not a slam dunk, but I think it is what I'd prefer. I certainly haven't said I don't want Smith on the team. I'm only arguing that the deep and talented FA market offers an opportunity to address the need well without as high of a cost.

What's the salary cap going to look like ? We dont know.

The FA WR corps isn't very good this yr. Moore is going to get overpaid by somebody and Smiths a better player. IMHO

Although Moore would be a great consilation prize, he's more of a slot guy than a true #2 like Smith would be. My point is with the Ricks 3rd rd draft record Smith would be a better choice than any player Rick would pick. Atleast that's what history tells me.

Blake
06-27-2011, 12:29 PM
Also, if we are giving up a 3rd round pick for anything, it will be to help out our defense.

HoustonFrog
06-27-2011, 12:30 PM
We just drafted 1st round talent, Brandon Harris with our "3rd round" pick and people are ready to give up next years for Steve Smith who punched a teammate at practice, and has a history of injury...

Then yall will complain when we have to wait 64 picks from round 2 to round 4 in the 2012 draft.

Really? I didn't know that the guy had played yet or that he worked out.

Blake
06-27-2011, 12:33 PM
Really? I didn't know that the guy had played yet or that he worked out.

Not sure what you mean here.

HoustonFrog
06-27-2011, 12:38 PM
Not sure what you mean here.

You are implying that Texans got a player in the 3rd round this year that has 1st round talent despite never seeing him play on the pro level yet. He might be average or suck or whatever. Steve Smith is a known quantity. That is all. When you hit a certain point as a franchise you have to pull some triggers.

gary
06-27-2011, 12:41 PM
Do it.

beerlover
06-27-2011, 12:43 PM
Cam Newton will need Steve Smith more than the Texans, doubt there is anything substantial to this rumor.

dalemurphy
06-27-2011, 12:47 PM
You are implying that Texans got a player in the 3rd round this year that has 1st round talent despite never seeing him play on the pro level yet. He might be average or suck or whatever. Steve Smith is a known quantity. That is all. When you hit a certain point as a franchise you have to pull some triggers.

Aren't Sidney Rice, Steve Smith (NYG), Santanio Holmes, Lance Moore, James Jones, Santana Moss "proven commodities"? My argument is that you can get a quality #2 WR without giving away draft pick compensation... and get him for more years and (in many instances) less money.

Once again, I love Steve Smith and would like to have him on the team. I just think there are better moves to be made. Especially with our need to attend to the secondary... What if the decision comes down to Steve Smith via trade and Richard Marshall at CB.... Or, a lesser WR via FA (Lance Moore perhaps or Santana Moss) and a strong bid for Asomugha or Johnathan Joseph? Whether we are talking about cap money or a budget born from Bob McNair's perceived greed, those are the kinds of decisions that every team has to make when entering into a massive FA market like this year's.

nero THE zero
06-27-2011, 12:48 PM
You're talking like he's signed at $10M per through age 37, Dale. He's 32 and is only signed through next season.

badboy
06-27-2011, 12:50 PM
I'm a huge Steve Smith fan. However, the question isn't whether Smith would be an asset for the team but whether there are better options available. I concur with many that the Texans need another reliable playmaker at WR. However, I'd be reluctant to give up a mid round draft pick and take on his rather large contract and health concerns given this year's FA market.

The Texans have the opportunity to sign a very good and younger WR for similar or less money- without losing a draft pick. Here's a sampling of some of the better FA WRs this season (all but one of the list is 28 yrs or younger):

Sant. Holmes
Sidney Rice
Steve Smith (NYG)
B. Edwards
Lance Moore
James Jones
M. Sims-Walker
Steve Breaston
Santana Moss
Mark ClaytonWhat DM says. Let's save those draft picks to deepen roster next year. Smith is good but also 32.

nero THE zero
06-27-2011, 12:52 PM
Aren't Sidney Rice, Steve Smith (NYG), Santanio Holmes, Lance Moore, James Jones, Santana Moss "proven commodities"? My argument is that you can get a quality #2 WR without giving away draft pick compensation... and get him for more years and (in many instances) less money.
.

What makes you think that these players are going to get less money than Smith? Smith is better than every guy on that list except Rice, whose contract is going to trump Smith's is year and dollars.

dalemurphy
06-27-2011, 12:56 PM
What DM says. Let's save those draft picks to deepen roster next year. Smith is good but also 32.

By the way, when I say "better options"... I don't mean better players, neccessarily. I simply mean better allocation of resources. I realize that Steve Smith is a much better WR than Lance Moore. I think Smith is easily one of the top 10 Wrs in the league right now... I'm factoring in his age, his contract, the likelihood that he won't play special teams at this point in his career, the PPG difference he would make on the Texans offense (Texans already score points well and move the ball exceedingly well... since he's not a dominant red zone player, his tangible impact on the offense would be relatively small assuming AJ stays healthy and the Texans sign a quality WR like Moore)

dalemurphy
06-27-2011, 12:58 PM
What makes you think that these players are going to get less money than Smith? Smith is better than every guy on that list except Rice, whose contract is going to trump Smith's is year and dollars.

A fllooded FA market is going to create opportunities in free agency that we haven't seen in the past decade or more. Not every player will be a bargain, but some very good bargains will be available.

gary
06-27-2011, 01:03 PM
Hopefully three or four free agents are strongly pursued by the Texans. I don't care which side of the ball they play on. I just want to see the front office being a go getter.

steelbtexan
06-27-2011, 01:10 PM
Great post

Smith is very good in the red zone. Not the last 2 yrs because of the Panthers QB problems. But check the stats when Carolina made the playoffs 3 yrs ago. BTW, Smiths game hasn't really fallen off and his contract will end sooner than the lesser FA WR's you listed. There is less risk involved with Smith on a short term contract. Also as you pointed out Smith is the better player. I would take S.Moss or Holmes as a consilation prize though.

Dutchrudder
06-27-2011, 01:42 PM
That 7 million for Steve Smith may preclude the Texans from getting any of the top 8 CBs on the market in free agency. I don't think it's worth it to get another 7 mill a year WR when we really need a 7 mill a year CB or safety. If they can get him for cheap, maybe, but not at a premium for a 3rd or more. The Panthers want to get young, which is why they were shopping him last year, so they probably won't get more than a 4th for him.

Blake
06-27-2011, 01:43 PM
You are implying that Texans got a player in the 3rd round this year that has 1st round talent despite never seeing him play on the pro level yet. He might be average or suck or whatever. Steve Smith is a known quantity. That is all. When you hit a certain point as a franchise you have to pull some triggers.

Well my statement is still accurate. I never tried to imply that he is guaranteed to be a superstar. And while Steve Smith is a know quantity, he is also known for breaking down with his aggressive style of play. And at 32 you can almost bet money on it.

I would have to agree that getting a Santana Moss for free would be a better idea.

Rey
06-27-2011, 02:06 PM
You give up a third rounder for Steve smith. That's not even a debate.

Dude instantly raises the credibility level of the entire offense. The guy brings passion, leadership, fire, attitude, and experience. Dude has been to the superbowl and is still at the least on the bottom end of elite receivers.
These are things that the other receivers you guys are naming don't bring. He's also not going to be that much more expensive than those guys.

He doesn't have a bunch of years on his deal and if you sign one of those guys you will have to give a long term deal. Plus there us no guarantee any of then would sign here during free agency.

Thats like saying you wouldn't trade a pick for Phillip rivers but you'd rather sign Matt Ryan in free agency.

Dutchrudder
06-27-2011, 02:15 PM
Salaries for 2011:
AJ: 6,000,000 + lots of incentives - 1 mill all but guaranteed, 800k for workouts, difficult escalators could give him nearly 2 million more
Steve Smith: 7,000,000
Kevin Walter: 3,000,000

That would be a hell of a lot of money to invest in WRs alone. I think there are some better ways to spend that money and still improve at WR. Several of these guys could be had for only a couple million a year.

2010 salaries of upcoming Free Agents:
Richard Marshall: 1,759,000
Jonathan Joseph: 875,000 + 2.5 mill escalator
Steve Breaston: 2,396,000
Carlos Rogers: $1,542,000
Chris Carr: 2,000,000
Dawan Landry: $1,759,000
Josh Wilson: 550,000 + some incentives

dalemurphy
06-27-2011, 02:16 PM
You give up a third rounder for Steve smith. That's not even a debate.

Dude instantly raises the credibility level of the entire offense. The guy brings passion, leadership, fire, attitude, and experience. Dude has been to the superbowl and is still at the least on the bottom end of elite receivers.
These are things that the other receivers you guys are naming don't bring. He's also not going to be that much more expensive than those guys.

He doesn't have a bunch of years on his deal and if you sign one of those guys you will have to give a long term deal. Plus there us no guarantee any of then would sign here during free agency.

Thats like saying you wouldn't trade a pick for Phillip rivers but you'd rather sign Matt Ryan in free agency.

While your point has some merit, I think there is an enormous difference between acquiring a franchise QB vs. a #2 WR... If we needed a #1 WR, then the urgency to get the absolute best WR available would be greater. However, we have a HOF caliber WR still in his 20s... My point is that a good WR with playmaking ability accomplishes (essentially) the same thing for our offense as Steve Smith would... Now, if we ended up with Lance Moore instead, then AJ was lost for the season in week #7, I might have a different opinion on the deal.

Rey
06-27-2011, 02:43 PM
While your point has some merit, I think there is an enormous difference between acquiring a franchise QB vs. a #2 WR... If we needed a #1 WR, then the urgency to get the absolute best WR available would be greater. However, we have a HOF caliber WR still in his 20s... My point is that a good WR with playmaking ability accomplishes (essentially) the same thing for our offense as Steve Smith would... Now, if we ended up with Lance Moore instead, then AJ was lost for the season in week #7, I might have a different opinion on the deal.

Yeah there is a difference.

Maybe a more apt comparison would have been the patriots not acquiring moss and instead waiting on tj houzmanzadeh to hit the market. Clearly moss propelled the NE offense into the upper stratosphere.

I could see if smith had many years left on his deal, but he doesn't. We are a team in search of an identity and credibility. I'm not calling those other guys bad options at all, but I think that if you are a franchise in the position that the texans are in and are really trying to assert yourself as a competitor in this league, smith is clearly the better option.

If kubiak is in win now mode (which I hope he is) then smith is the guy that will push this offense even further at the end of the year. And it's only a one year thing. If you win big resign him to a reasonable contract. If you win despite him, just move on and maybe draft a receiver. But if the texans have a legit shot to get him they should. Jmo.

Rey
06-27-2011, 02:49 PM
Salaries for 2011:
AJ: 6,000,000 + lots of incentives - 1 mill all but guaranteed, 800k for workouts, difficult escalators could give him nearly 2 million more
Steve Smith: 7,000,000
Kevin Walter: 3,000,000

That would be a hell of a lot of money to invest in WRs alone. I think there are some better ways to spend that money and still improve at WR. Several of these guys could be had for only a couple million a year.

2010 salaries of upcoming Free Agents:
Richard Marshall: 1,759,000
Jonathan Joseph: 875,000 + 2.5 mill escalator
Steve Breaston: 2,396,000
Carlos Rogers: $1,542,000
Chris Carr: 2,000,000
Dawan Landry: $1,759,000
Josh Wilson: 550,000 + some incentives

Texans have cap room. Smith has one yr left if I'm not mistaken.

Why couldn't they get smith and still sign a couple of those free agents?

It's not like smith is a long term investment. It's a one year type of thing unless he does really well and we resign him to a reasonable contract.

And most of those free agents are going to make a lot more than what their previous salary was. Sure they were a lot cheaper last year, but their price is about to go up.

As long as we are under the cap next year I dont care. Not even sure why that matters if it's not affecting the long term interest of the team. Why should I care if McNair spends a lot of money next year?

Ole Miss Texan
06-27-2011, 02:56 PM
Texans have cap room. Smith has one yr left if I'm not mistaken.

Why couldn't they get smith and still sign a couple of those free agents?

It's not like smith is a long term investment. It's a one year type of thing unless he does really well and we resign him to a reasonable contract.

And most of those free agents are going to make a lot more than what their previous salary was. Sure they were a lot cheaper last year, but their price is about to go up.

As long as we are under the cap next year I dont care. Not even sure why that matters if it's not affecting the long term interest of the team. Why should I care if McNair spends a lot of money next year?

If we're going to hypothetically trade a 3rd round pick, I would want to do it for a #1 CB or Safety. I love Steve Smith as much as the next guy but I'm not terribly overjoyous of trading a 3rd round pick for a 32 year old #2 WR on a 2 year $15,750,000 contract.

Smith is signed through the 2012 season so that's two seasons. He is a short term investment like you said. But for me that's why I don't like trading a 3rd round pick for him. If he was a long term investment I would feel more comfortable in that.

Dutchrudder
06-27-2011, 03:31 PM
Texans have cap room. Smith has one yr left if I'm not mistaken.

Won't know until the CBA has a cap number in it. Speculation is around 120-130 million a year. Most sites have the Texans 2010 total at 121-123 million spent. Subtract all the upfront money on the big deals for Ryans and a few others, add in OD's new deal, subtract Vonta's 4 mill, subtract other FA's like JJ, Butler, Davis, Leinart, Pollard, re-sign Foster?, re-sign Leach?, sign rookies, etc etc. It's not going to leave a lot of room to throw 7 mill at Smith and still get a starting veteran CB and/or Safety.



Why couldn't they get smith and still sign a couple of those free agents?

It's not like smith is a long term investment. It's a one year type of thing unless he does really well and we resign him to a reasonable contract.

Edit: nevermind, the NFL site is saying this:

Smith's current contract runs through 2012. He has base salaries of $7 million in 2011 and $7.75 million in 2012, with salary cap figures of $9.96 million and $10.71 million, respectively.


That's more than AJ will make those years (unless AJ is top 5 in some WR stats)!


And most of those free agents are going to make a lot more than what their previous salary was. Sure they were a lot cheaper last year, but their price is about to go up.

As long as we are under the cap next year I dont care. Not even sure why that matters if it's not affecting the long term interest of the team. Why should I care if McNair spends a lot of money next year?

Some surely will get paid more, especially with a 90% salary cap minimum in play. I think the Texans will be near that 90% at the start of the free agency though. I want them to spend 99.9% of the cap on salary, but I would rather see that free 10-20% go towards re-signing Leach, Foster and getting some vet CB and Safetys here.

Rey
06-27-2011, 04:03 PM
Won't know until the CBA has a cap number in it. Speculation is around 120-130 million a year. Most sites have the Texans 2010 total at 121-123 million spent. Subtract all the upfront money on the big deals for Ryans and a few others, add in OD's new deal, subtract Vonta's 4 mill, subtract other FA's like JJ, Butler, Davis, Leinart, Pollard, re-sign Foster?, re-sign Leach?, sign rookies, etc etc. It's not going to leave a lot of room to throw 7 mill at Smith and still get a starting veteran CB and/or Safety.




Edit: nevermind, the NFL site is saying this:


That's more than AJ will make those years (unless AJ is top 5 in some WR stats)!



Some surely will get paid more, especially with a 90% salary cap minimum in play. I think the Texans will be near that 90% at the start of the free agency though. I want them to spend 99.9% of the cap on salary, but I would rather see that free 10-20% go towards re-signing Leach, Foster and getting some vet CB and Safetys here.

I think it's pretty useless to discuss the cap ramifications right now.

We dont know what will be in the new cba.

But one thing I'm almost sure of is that the texans would be able to trade for smith and still have money to sign a vet corner. Only way I wouldn't do this is if it kept us from signing aso.

The league is not going to make it so that teams barely have enough money to sign their draft picks.

indiantexan
06-27-2011, 04:18 PM
Other than Santonio Homes there is not one guy on that list better than Smith. I can't believe anyone would be against a 3rd rounder for Smith. That guy is a gamer and comes up huge in big games unlike the other ***** people have been clamoring for in here in Chad Johnson who always has come up short in the Bengals biggest games. Smith isn't about attention either. He works hard and probably has 3 good years left in him. A 3rd rounder? Lol! Please. I find it pretty funny how valuable people actually place 3rd round picks. Does anyone realize how many 3rd rounders around the league that get drafted that don't do anything?? Steve Smith is a proven commodity in this league and hasn't been garbage the last few years other than last season, but his team was in shambles before the season even started. A 3rd rounder would be getting Steve Smith on the cheap.

The Texans won't touch him with a ten foot pole though. He is to high profile for Rick Smith, and he isn't boy scout enough for Uncle Bob. He won't be here. Personally I hope the Patriots get him. He'd go off like hell with Tom Brady and he'd be that deep threat that the Pats are currently needing right now.

This.

mussop
06-27-2011, 08:36 PM
This.

Second. Wonder if smith can/will still return kicks? Either way I would give next years third round pick for him and throw in omobie with it without hesitation. This team has never had a second wr as good as smith. He would instantly stop teams from doubling or rolling the defense to andre's side.

Andre, smith, Daniels with the threat foster poses out of the backfield would be tough to defend. Sign me up.

CloakNNNdagger
06-27-2011, 09:13 PM
As good as our O has been on paper, we desperately need a #2 receiver. Smith could definitely fill that role well.

Which NFL team has two good corners with one-on-one skills to cover AJ and Smith? The answer is a simple one........NO NFL team has two one-on-one corners who can match up. Having these two as a tandem will assure that opposing Ds will be left guessing on most plays......no longer being able to concentrate their attention to the area around the LOS.

gary
06-27-2011, 09:16 PM
McNair won't ever go for Smith.

Doppelganger
06-27-2011, 09:36 PM
Why do some of you feel that a 3rd is too much?

Personally, it think he's worth it, he would give us a reliable #2 receiver to pair with AJ. How much better would our already good Offense be then??

I'm all for it!!

3rd rounders are too valuable. Good teams build their corp around 3rd rounders. Here are our third rounders since 2006.

2006: Charles Spencer OT, Pitt
Eric Winston OT Miami

2007: Jacoby Jones WR Lane College

2008: Antawn Moulden, CB Eastern Kentucky

2009: Antoine Caldwell, C Alabama

2010: Earl Mitchell, DT, Arizona

2011: Brandon Harris(traded 3rd into 2nd for him)

Of that group only Moulden and Spencer were busts. Moulden was an outright bust whereas Spencer was an injury bust. Winston is our starting RT, Jones is a solid #2 or #3 WR, Caldwell is quality backup/spot starter, and Mitchell is our new NT.

Harris looks to be our nickel corner.

3rd rounders are VERY valuable.

CloakNNNdagger
06-27-2011, 09:45 PM
3rd rounders are too valuable. Good teams build their corp around 3rd rounders. Here are our third rounders since 2006.

2006: Charles Spencer OT, Pitt
Eric Winston OT Miami

2007: Jacoby Jones WR Lane College

2008: Antawn Moulden, CB Eastern Kentucky

2009: Antoine Caldwell, C Alabama

2010: Earl Mitchell, DT, Arizona

2011: Brandon Harris(traded 3rd into 2nd for him)

Of that group only Moulden and Spencer were busts. Moulden was an outright bust whereas Spencer was an injury bust. Winston is our starting RT, Jones is a solid #2 or #3 WR, Caldwell is quality backup/spot starter, and Mitchell is our new NT.

Harris looks to be our nickel corner.

3rd rounders are VERY valuable.

As we have already found out, so would be a legitimate #2 receiver to this team.

b0ng
06-27-2011, 10:15 PM
I'd rather not have to give up a draft pick for steve smith. I think the Panthers end up dealing him for less than a 3rd but it's possible nobody bites and he has to get cut.

Don't get me wrong, I think Smith can still contribute to almost all NFL teams, but I don't think his value is quite that high.

gary
06-27-2011, 10:22 PM
Smith might be a number two receiver on the Texans but he is the number one for Carolina which might play a role in how Carolina values him.

nytexan
06-27-2011, 10:31 PM
I'd rather not have to give up a draft pick for steve smith. I think the Panthers end up dealing him for less than a 3rd but it's possible nobody bites and he has to get cut.

Don't get me wrong, I think Smith can still contribute to almost all NFL teams, but I don't think his value is quite that high.

I agree with you, they won't get a 3rd for him not because of talent but because no-one will want that salary. Add the fact they may have a salary floor as well as a ceiling and that salary is a killjoy to anyone but the Eagles and Jaguars that have a boat load of money to spend, and I don't see either of those teams chasing him.

If the Texans are going to spend money, they NEED to do it for a CB and Safety. If Smith gets cut, pick him up for a much cheaper price but no way for that salary plus a 3rd round pick.

Rey
06-30-2011, 02:38 PM
I'd like to see the Colts trade for Smith just because I'd like to play with them on Madden.

steelbtexan
06-30-2011, 03:50 PM
3rd rounders are too valuable. Good teams build their corp around 3rd rounders. Here are our third rounders since 2006.

2006: Charles Spencer OT, Pitt
Eric Winston OT Miami

2007: Jacoby Jones WR Lane College

2008: Antawn Moulden, CB Eastern Kentucky

2009: Antoine Caldwell, C Alabama

2010: Earl Mitchell, DT, Arizona

2011: Brandon Harris(traded 3rd into 2nd for him)

Of that group only Moulden and Spencer were busts. Moulden was an outright bust whereas Spencer was an injury bust. Winston is our starting RT, Jones is a solid #2 or #3 WR, Caldwell is quality backup/spot starter, and Mitchell is our new NT.

Harris looks to be our nickel corner.

3rd rounders are VERY valuable.

How many pro bowls/Super Bowls/Confrence Championship Games have any of these guys been too?

Smiths been to a bunch, he's a better player at his position than any other player at their position on your list. Ex. Smith > J. Jones if you want an apples to apples comparison.

Blake
06-30-2011, 04:03 PM
Raiders trade Moss to Patriots for 4th, and you guys want to give up a 3rd for Steve freaking Smith...

/Thread fail

The Pencil Neck
06-30-2011, 04:05 PM
IF Steve Smith still has it, then hell, yeah.

I don't like losing a 3rd round pick, but I'd give up an Antwaun Molden for an aging Steve Smith.

And I think being here with AJ would rejuvenate Smith. He's also money in the red zone like some other people have posted.

If this deal is available, I'm all over it. We've got the space.

The Pencil Neck
06-30-2011, 04:05 PM
Raiders trade Moss to Patriots for 4th, and you guys want to give up a 3rd for Steve freaking Smith...

/Thread fail

You have to remember that it was the RAIDERS that made that deal.

Randy Moss was a big question mark. He'd been total crap for the Raiders.

steelbtexan
06-30-2011, 04:10 PM
I agree with you, they won't get a 3rd for him not because of talent but because no-one will want that salary. Add the fact they may have a salary floor as well as a ceiling and that salary is a killjoy to anyone but the Eagles and Jaguars that have a boat load of money to spend, and I don't see either of those teams chasing him.

If the Texans are going to spend money, they NEED to do it for a CB and Safety. If Smith gets cut, pick him up for a much cheaper price but no way for that salary plus a 3rd round pick.

Smith is on a short term deal, 2 yrs 15 mil I believe. So there's not that much risk involved.

Agreed about spending the $$$$ on a CB. Moving Quin to S will help the secondary more than you can imagine. IMHO The only way I dont trade for Smithis if it inhibits the ability to get the best FA CB possible.

Given the choice of FA CB and Smith or FA CB/ FA SS as this seasons vet offseason additions. Give me FA/CB and Smith. Adding Smith will add 3-7 ppg. and I believe the Texans finish 10-6. The other way CB/SS doesn't make as big an impact.

I just thought about this, the other S may be on the roster Allen played S some in Miami. Phillips should be able to find a starting S among the group of Allen, Nolan, Keo, Barber or a low cost vet FA. This yr is a buyers market in FA and after the 1st wave Phillips should be able to find a bargain.

Rey
06-30-2011, 04:13 PM
3rd rounders are too valuable. Good teams build their corp around 3rd rounders. Here are our third rounders since 2006.

2006: Charles Spencer OT, Pitt
Eric Winston OT Miami

2007: Jacoby Jones WR Lane College

2008: Antawn Moulden, CB Eastern Kentucky

2009: Antoine Caldwell, C Alabama

2010: Earl Mitchell, DT, Arizona

2011: Brandon Harris(traded 3rd into 2nd for him)

Of that group only Moulden and Spencer were busts. Moulden was an outright bust whereas Spencer was an injury bust. Winston is our starting RT, Jones is a solid #2 or #3 WR, Caldwell is quality backup/spot starter, and Mitchell is our new NT.

Harris looks to be our nickel corner.

3rd rounders are VERY valuable.

Just saw this and I LOL'd...

Are you seriously using this list as a reason why we shouldn't give up a third rd pick for Steve Smith?

You're talking about who's a bust and who's not but who on that list has actually done anything?

Basically what you're saying is you wouldn't trade most of those guys for Steve Smith, and I think I'd probably bundle most of them together and trade for him.

steelbtexan
06-30-2011, 04:18 PM
You have to remember that it was the RAIDERS that made that deal.

Randy Moss was a big question mark. He'd been total crap for the Raiders.

I look at talent and how it would fit the Texans. (Smith would be a great fit) and R.Smiths hoorible track record of drafting in the 3rd rd. That's why I'm glad they traded up in the 2011 draft and got a solid player like Harris. Instead of taking a talented small school guy like Molden/J.Jones. There's less % for failure.

Not whatever stupid deal Al Davis does as a baseline for a deal involving Smith.

The Pencil Neck
06-30-2011, 04:31 PM
I look at talent and how it would fit the Texans. (Smith would be a great fit) and R.Smiths hoorible track record of drafting in the 3rd rd. That's why I'm glad they traded up in the 2011 draft and got a solid player like Harris. Instead of taking a talented small school guy like Molden/J.Jones. There's less % for failure.

Not whatever stupid deal Al Davis does as a baseline for a deal involving Smith.

Exactly. You can't say "Moss was only worth a 4th so Smith isn't worth a 3rd." Smith, if he's healthy and still got "it", would be an invaluable addition to this team.

With AJ, Smith, and Daniels as targets and Foster/Tate/Ward running the rock, Schaub morphs into Joe Montana.

Ole Miss Texan
06-30-2011, 04:53 PM
Here's the thing about this "trade"... it's likely not going to happen soon into free agency. So if I'm the Texans GM, the first thing I do is go out and sign the best #1 CB I can. That's priority #1 for me, my HC, DC, Owner and fans and it HAS to be done and done quickly. After that I extend Leach and Butler if he doesn't ask for too much.

Then we get into the Smith trade talks once I've squared away earlier priorities. I don't think WR is a HIGH priority but I do think adding another weapon would be wise (remember I was a fan of Julio Jones in the 1st). Now it's just a matter of what the Cap situation will be. After my other signings plus anticipated rookie signings, if I could legitimately afford to pay Smith then I would do the trade for the 3rd rounder. However, it's very important that the other FA's get taken care of first before I spend this draft pick because if we're backed into a corner I'd spend it on a legit #1 corner.

Now Smith would have to restructure his contract for this trade to happen. He'll want a longer term contract and if I'm spending the 3rd I want him for longer than 2 years. I'd look for some sort of 4 year $25M deal. With over half guaranteed.

Kevin Walter's was 5 year $21.5M with $11M guaranteed. Smith deserves more but once we start getting into the $7-8M per year range I'm going to be shying away from it. That extra $1.5M is going to pay Leach/Swing Tackle/or extra for my CB.

Dutchrudder
06-30-2011, 05:05 PM
Here's the thing about this "trade"... it's likely not going to happen soon into free agency. So if I'm the Texans GM, the first thing I do is go out and sign the best #1 CB I can. That's priority #1 for me, my HC, DC, Owner and fans and it HAS to be done and done quickly. After that I extend Leach and Butler if he doesn't ask for too much.

Then we get into the Smith trade talks once I've squared away earlier priorities. I don't think WR is a HIGH priority but I do think adding another weapon would be wise (remember I was a fan of Julio Jones in the 1st). Now it's just a matter of what the Cap situation will be. After my other signings plus anticipated rookie signings, if I could legitimately afford to pay Smith then I would do the trade for the 3rd rounder. However, it's very important that the other FA's get taken care of first before I spend this draft pick because if we're backed into a corner I'd spend it on a legit #1 corner.

Now Smith would have to restructure his contract for this trade to happen. He'll want a longer term contract and if I'm spending the 3rd I want him for longer than 2 years. I'd look for some sort of 4 year $25M deal. With over half guaranteed.

Kevin Walter's was 5 year $21.5M with $11M guaranteed. Smith deserves more but once we start getting into the $7-8M per year range I'm going to be shying away from it. That extra $1.5M is going to pay Leach/Swing Tackle/or extra for my CB.

I would love to see a restructuring like that, but I don't think it's an option in this case. He's guaranteed nearly 15 million through 2012 including his signing bonus. His contract makes him paid almost as much as AJ each year, which is crazy. That's money what we should be throwing at ASO, not Steve Smith. Or go after Eric Weddle for about 5-6 million a year over 4 years and use the rest on a mid-level CB and a guy like Steve Breaston.

Smith's current contract runs through 2012. He has base salaries of $7 million in 2011 and $7.75 million in 2012, with salary cap figures of $9.96 million and $10.71 million, respectively.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-04-26/signs-point-to-steve-smith-not-returning-to-carolina-panthers

Rey
06-30-2011, 05:31 PM
Here's the thing about this "trade"... it's likely not going to happen soon into free agency. So if I'm the Texans GM, the first thing I do is go out and sign the best #1 CB I can. That's priority #1 for me, my HC, DC, Owner and fans and it HAS to be done and done quickly. After that I extend Leach and Butler if he doesn't ask for too much.

Then we get into the Smith trade talks once I've squared away earlier priorities. I don't think WR is a HIGH priority but I do think adding another weapon would be wise (remember I was a fan of Julio Jones in the 1st). Now it's just a matter of what the Cap situation will be. After my other signings plus anticipated rookie signings, if I could legitimately afford to pay Smith then I would do the trade for the 3rd rounder. However, it's very important that the other FA's get taken care of first before I spend this draft pick because if we're backed into a corner I'd spend it on a legit #1 corner.

Now Smith would have to restructure his contract for this trade to happen. He'll want a longer term contract and if I'm spending the 3rd I want him for longer than 2 years. I'd look for some sort of 4 year $25M deal. With over half guaranteed.

Kevin Walter's was 5 year $21.5M with $11M guaranteed. Smith deserves more but once we start getting into the $7-8M per year range I'm going to be shying away from it. That extra $1.5M is going to pay Leach/Swing Tackle/or extra for my CB.

How do you know what the new CBA will look like and what can be done as far as player contracts are concerned?

drs23
06-30-2011, 08:34 PM
I look at talent and how it would fit the Texans. (Smith would be a great fit) and R.Smiths hoorible track record of drafting in the 3rd rd. That's why I'm glad they traded up in the 2011 draft and got a solid player like Harris. Instead of taking a talented small school guy like Molden/J.Jones. There's less % for failure.

Not whatever stupid deal Al Davis does as a baseline for a deal involving Smith.

steelb, Did you just give Rick Smith props? :D :kitten:

The Pencil Neck
06-30-2011, 10:37 PM
steelb, Did you just give Rick Smith props? :D :kitten:

Dude.

That had to be Wade.

:smiliedance:

steelbtexan
06-30-2011, 11:02 PM
Dude.

That had to be Wade.

:smiliedance:

Rick and Gary were probably locked in a bathroom for rds 1-5 by BoB.

Gary escaped just in time to select his QB of another HC's future. (Yates) LOL.

Doppelganger
06-30-2011, 11:08 PM
How many pro bowls/Super Bowls/Confrence Championship Games have any of these guys been too?

Smiths been to a bunch, he's a better player at his position than any other player at their position on your list. Ex. Smith > J. Jones if you want an apples to apples comparison.

The problem with your argument is that the Steve Smith that went to Probowls is long gone. He is already 32 years old and his asset was as a speedy receiver. He is slowing down and only had 46 catches for 554 yards. Not good numbers. He will continue to slow down as he ages. He isn't the kind of wr you want when he gets older.


Just saw this and I LOL'd...

Are you seriously using this list as a reason why we shouldn't give up a third rd pick for Steve Smith?

You're talking about who's a bust and who's not but who on that list has actually done anything?

Basically what you're saying is you wouldn't trade most of those guys for Steve Smith, and I think I'd probably bundle most of them together and trade for him.


You can "LOL" as much as you want, but I ask you this: what did Steve Smith do last year? I don't know what he did in 3 or 4 years ago, what did he do last year? The answer is not much. He is getting up there in age and his biggest weapon: his speed is beginning to wane. If I was able to get the Steve Smith of 3 years ago, then yeah, I would definitely trade a third for that. But you aren't getting that.

Steve Smith 2011=Eric Moulds 2006.

And for the record, we gave up a 5th for that guy.

steelbtexan
06-30-2011, 11:24 PM
Who was Smiths QB the last 2 yrs?

2009-2010 Delhomme (hurt) Matt Moore, David Carr, 80 yr old Testaverde
2010-2011 Matt Moore, Jimmy Clausen, Brian St Pierre

Could these QB's have had anything to do with Smiths stats falling off?

Nah Smith was the reason all of these QB's stunk. LOL

Rey
06-30-2011, 11:28 PM
The problem with your argument is that the Steve Smith that went to Probowls is long gone. He is already 32 years old and his asset was as a speedy receiver. He is slowing down and only had 46 catches for 554 yards. Not good numbers. He will continue to slow down as he ages. He isn't the kind of wr you want when he gets older.





You can "LOL" as much as you want, but I ask you this: what did Steve Smith do last year? I don't know what he did in 3 or 4 years ago, what did he do last year? The answer is not much. He is getting up there in age and his biggest weapon: his speed is beginning to wane. If I was able to get the Steve Smith of 3 years ago, then yeah, I would definitely trade a third for that. But you aren't getting that.

Steve Smith 2011=Eric Moulds 2006.

And for the record, we gave up a 5th for that guy.

Wow.

Sigh.

Panthers haven't had a functional qb in ages. Eric moulds would have been much better had Carr not been throwing him the ball IMO. I think thats good evidence of terrible qb play affecting receivers. Look at moss on Oakland and what he did when he left.

Not even sure why you wouldn't take into account poorly run teams and atrocious qb play when evaluating a guy that has been as successful as smith.

steelbtexan
07-01-2011, 12:02 AM
He doesn't want Smith on the team.

Because he isn't one of our good rep kinda guys.

This is obvious because there isn't anybody currently on the team that's near as good as Smith. (Excluding AJ) He's probably OK with Walter as the #2 WR. Because Gosh Darnit Gary said Walter is one of the hardest workers on the team and this kid is really improving.

Same with J.Jones although I hold my breath every time he fields a punt or a pass is thrown his way. If he manages to catch the pass I just hope he goes down before he makes a move wildly swinging his arm that's carrying the ball allowing DB's the chance to force a fumble exposing the ball.

Does anybody else feel this way about JJ after watching him play for 4 yrs?

b0ng
07-01-2011, 03:10 AM
Raiders trade Moss to Patriots for 4th, and you guys want to give up a 3rd for Steve freaking Smith...

/Thread fail

Wes Welker went for a 2nd and a 7th when he was a lowly slot guy/special teamer in Miami. Somebody who is hard up for receiver talent could easily talk themselves into giving up a 3rd for Steve Smith.

drs23
07-01-2011, 11:30 AM
Dude.

That had to be Wade.

:smiliedance:

Rick and Gary were probably locked in a bathroom for rds 1-5 by BoB.

Gary escaped just in time to select his QB of another HC's future. (Yates) LOL.

Yeah, what the hell was I thinking? :wacko:

gary
07-01-2011, 11:41 AM
Schaub is much better than all of those above.

Ole Miss Texan
07-01-2011, 02:36 PM
How do you know what the new CBA will look like and what can be done as far as player contracts are concerned?
:wadepalm:

Wolf6151
07-02-2011, 02:51 AM
We just drafted 1st round talent, Brandon Harris with our "3rd round" pick and people are ready to give up next years for Steve Smith who punched a teammate at practice, and has a history of injury...

Then yall will complain when we have to wait 64 picks from round 2 to round 4 in the 2012 draft.

Agree completely. If we're using out 3rd round pick in a trade it had better be for a NT or FS/SS. This secondary still needs lots of help.

Wolf6151
07-02-2011, 02:54 AM
He doesn't want Smith on the team.

Because he isn't one of our good rep kinda guys.

This is obvious because there isn't anybody currently on the team that's near as good as Smith. (Excluding AJ) He's probably OK with Walter as the #2 WR. Because Gosh Darnit Gary said Walter is one of the hardest workers on the team and this kid is really improving.

Same with J.Jones although I hold my breath every time he fields a punt or a pass is thrown his way. If he manages to catch the pass I just hope he goes down before he makes a move wildly swinging his arm that's carrying the ball allowing DB's the chance to force a fumble exposing the ball.

Does anybody else feel this way about JJ after watching him play for 4 yrs?


Oh yea, I get a high pucker factor every time JJ touches the ball in any way.

mussop
01-19-2012, 10:48 AM
:mariopalm: hmmmmm!!!! I bet no one would be against that trade now.

Dutchrudder
01-19-2012, 11:06 AM
:mariopalm: hmmmmm!!!! I bet no one would be against that trade now.

Given his cap hit, I still am. Find me 9 million on the roster from the beginning of last camp.

eriadoc
01-19-2012, 11:35 AM
The problem with your argument is that the Steve Smith that went to Probowls is long gone. He is already 32 years old and his asset was as a speedy receiver. He is slowing down and only had 46 catches for 554 yards. Not good numbers. He will continue to slow down as he ages. He isn't the kind of wr you want when he gets older.

You can "LOL" as much as you want, but I ask you this: what did Steve Smith do last year? I don't know what he did in 3 or 4 years ago, what did he do last year? The answer is not much. He is getting up there in age and his biggest weapon: his speed is beginning to wane. If I was able to get the Steve Smith of 3 years ago, then yeah, I would definitely trade a third for that. But you aren't getting that.

Steve Smith 2011=Eric Moulds 2006.

And for the record, we gave up a 5th for that guy.

Sorry, I just find this funny.

eriadoc
01-19-2012, 11:37 AM
3rd rounders are too valuable. Good teams build their corp around 3rd rounders. Here are our third rounders since 2006.

2006: Charles Spencer OT, Pitt
Eric Winston OT Miami

2007: Jacoby Jones WR Lane College

2008: Antawn Moulden, CB Eastern Kentucky

2009: Antoine Caldwell, C Alabama

2010: Earl Mitchell, DT, Arizona

2011: Brandon Harris(traded 3rd into 2nd for him)

Of that group only Moulden and Spencer were busts. Moulden was an outright bust whereas Spencer was an injury bust. Winston is our starting RT, Jones is a solid #2 or #3 WR, Caldwell is quality backup/spot starter, and Mitchell is our new NT.

Harris looks to be our nickel corner.

3rd rounders are VERY valuable.

I also find this funny.

gary
01-19-2012, 11:41 AM
He said he does not want to go anywhere.

RazorOye
01-19-2012, 12:07 PM
Sorry, I just find this funny.

me too

the guy's production hasn't fallen off and I hate facing him. Hate it. Hate it. Hate it.

I would LOVE for a non-division team to give him a home.

i think that's less likely now, though, because of Cam's emergence and ability to deliver the ball to him. Cam likes Smith a lot and that opens things up for the WR in ways he hasn't seen for a while now.

I wish he would go somewhere other than the NFC South, but I just don't see it happening.

Dutchrudder
01-19-2012, 12:17 PM
Given his cap hit, I still am. Find me 9 million on the roster from the beginning of last camp.

Sorry, Smith's numbers in 2011 were actually 7 million in salary and 1.55 million in signing bonus. So if traded, only the 7 mill would count against the Texan's cap. In contrast, we went out and signed Daniel Manning to a deal worth 5 million a year and JJo to a deal that averages 9.75 million a year. So yeah, I'm glad the Texans went with a 27 year old CB and 28 year old SS instead of a 32 year old WR. At the end of their deals, they will both be younger than Smith is now. It was certainly the right call, addressed the critical need and didn't cost us any draft picks.

HOU-TEX
01-19-2012, 12:18 PM
I like Smith, but I'd rather go younger and cheaper using the draft.

steelbtexan
01-19-2012, 12:28 PM
This is why some people wanted to trade MW last yr.

To open up a spot and cap room for a WR like Smith and/or another CB.

Instead the Texans are stuck with MW and may have to let him walk. It's about making the team better as a whole.

gary
01-19-2012, 12:41 PM
This is why some people wanted to trade MW last yr.

To open up a spot and cap room for a WR like Smith and/or another CB.

Instead the Texans are stuck with MW and may have to let him walk. It's about making the team better as a whole.But Jones has potential. Got it? Trading for Smith last season or moving up in the draft this year to take someone like Blackmon who many are calling the next T.O. that is just not how Gary and Rick operates though.

Rey
01-19-2012, 12:48 PM
Sorry, Smith's numbers in 2011 were actually 7 million in salary and 1.55 million in signing bonus. So if traded, only the 7 mill would count against the Texan's cap. In contrast, we went out and signed Daniel Manning to a deal worth 5 million a year and JJo to a deal that averages 9.75 million a year. So yeah, I'm glad the Texans went with a 27 year old CB and 28 year old SS instead of a 32 year old WR. At the end of their deals, they will both be younger than Smith is now. It was certainly the right call, addressed the critical need and didn't cost us any draft picks.

If we could have made it work by trading away some players to make the money work out I'd go for it.

I could care less about his age as he was productive this year again when he finally got a functional QB again.


The goal every year should be to win the superbowl and Steve Smith running routes instead of Jacoby and Kevin would have given us a better chance to do that.

Dutchrudder
01-19-2012, 02:04 PM
If we could have made it work by trading away some players to make the money work out I'd go for it.

I could care less about his age as he was productive this year again when he finally got a functional QB again.


The goal every year should be to win the superbowl and Steve Smith running routes instead of Jacoby and Kevin would have given us a better chance to do that.

No question Smith makes us better, but where do you get 7 million to fit him in? Knock off 3 mill for not signing JJ back obviously. Then another save another 4 from re-upping Mario's contract, but extending him at the same time? Maybe let Lienart go to save 2.5 mill? It's not easy to find that money going into last year without depleting other positions. Furthermore, there's no way the Panthers let him go for just a 3rd. More likely a 1st and a late pick.

I just don't think it was reasonably feasible to make this deal last year.

steelbtexan
01-19-2012, 03:00 PM
If they would've let JJ walk and traded MW last yr. Then there was cap room to trade for Smith last yr.

Just like if they let MW and Leinhart walk there would be room to take on a contract like Smiths this yr. Not that the Panthers are going to be trading Smith this yr.

Rey
01-19-2012, 03:43 PM
No question Smith makes us better, but where do you get 7 million to fit him in? Knock off 3 mill for not signing JJ back obviously. Then another save another 4 from re-upping Mario's contract, but extending him at the same time? Maybe let Lienart go to save 2.5 mill? It's not easy to find that money going into last year without depleting other positions. Furthermore, there's no way the Panthers let him go for just a 3rd. More likely a 1st and a late pick.

I just don't think it was reasonably feasible to make this deal last year.

I think it's cool to talk about all this stuff and whatnot, but I just think that we will never know exactly what the cap situation looks like...

Ball park....sure....

I'm not saying that a GM can go out and sign whoever they want to or trade for anyone they desire, but I think we could have made it work. JMO.

Texecutioner
01-19-2012, 07:57 PM
Other than Santonio Homes there is not one guy on that list better than Smith. I can't believe anyone would be against a 3rd rounder for Smith. That guy is a gamer and comes up huge in big games unlike the other ***** people have been clamoring for in here in Chad Johnson who always has come up short in the Bengals biggest games. Smith isn't about attention either. He works hard and probably has 3 good years left in him. A 3rd rounder? Lol! Please. I find it pretty funny how valuable people actually place 3rd round picks. Does anyone realize how many 3rd rounders around the league that get drafted that don't do anything?? Steve Smith is a proven commodity in this league and hasn't been garbage the last few years other than last season, but his team was in shambles before the season even started. A 3rd rounder would be getting Steve Smith on the cheap.

The Texans won't touch him with a ten foot pole though. He is to high profile for Rick Smith, and he isn't boy scout enough for Uncle Bob. He won't be here. Personally I hope the Patriots get him. He'd go off like hell with Tom Brady and he'd be that deep threat that the Pats are currently needing right now.

I'll just let the first post in this thread from last season speak for itself.

Smith was a no brained and being available for 3rd rounder was such a no brainer. Instead we re upped on jj. What a complete wasted opportunity

Lucky
01-19-2012, 08:13 PM
What a complete wasted opportunity
There was never an opportunity. The Panthers never put Smith on the market, and Smith changed his tune about returning to Carolina and playing with Cam. It was mere speculation that turned out to be false.