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Texans34Life
06-21-2011, 10:58 AM
It's long, but very informative. Thanks, LZ.

http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2011/06/unsolicited-damage-control-for-rick-smith/

To me, it should be a forgone conclusion that the Bob McNair will empty out the front office and the coaching staff if the Texans have yet another disappointing season, but McNair is maybe the most patient owner in sports history so maybe I shouldn’t be so quick to make that assumption.

If the Texans do fail and Gary Kubiak and Rick Smith are both fired, I know for a fact that there are teams who would love to add Gary Kubiak as an offensive coordinator the first day he is on the market. Would a team hire Kubiak as a head coach? I don’t know that. I do know that he is respected around the league as an offensive mind.

The interesting question would be where would Rick Smith catch on and in what capacity? The worst thing I’ve heard about Kubiak is that “he’s boring”. Rick Smith, on the other hand, has people ready to shots at him in high and low places. I think it is safe to say that Smith’s tenure as general manager of the team is not strong enough to warrant consideration in that capacity for any other team at this time and his interpersonal relationships are not what they need to be according conversations I’ve had over the years with former players and coaches, current players and coaches, agents and a couple of personnel people.

Let me lay all my cards out on the table for you so you know that what I’m writing today doesn’t have an agenda behind it.

I’ve spoken with Rick Smith on a few occasions over the years and we’ve exchanged emails regarding a couple of football-related issues in the past. When I found out how disappointed Aaron Schobel was with how his dealings with the Texans and Rick Smith went, I contacted Rick to get his side of the story and he answered. Am I buddy-buddy with Rick Smith? No. Do I dislike him? No. Rick Smith will tell you right out front that the organization believes in the “once voice” concept and Kubiak is that public voice. While I think that Smith needs to be more accessible to the media so that the fans can hear directly from him, I really don’t care if Smith is difficult to deal with for the media or not – as long as he does his job well.

Voices of Dissension

Last Thursday, Ahman Green called into Sean Pendergast’s show on 1560 The Game to talk about a blog that Sean had written about him (Green) and to talk about his side of the story regarding why his time in Houston went poorly as a free agent. You can listen to the interview here, but Green spoke of some difficult personal issues he was going through at the time that made things tough on him. He also said that he was warned by some former players to keep an eye on Rick Smith as he might not be trust-worthy. The real eye-opener during the interview was that Ahman Green claimed that Rick Smith called him into his office during the 2007 season and asked him directly if he was faking injuries. BAD. MOVE.

Ahman Green was injury-prone… we all knew that when the Texans signed him. Whether any or all of us (including the Texans) were frustrated with Green over his injuries, Rick Smith should have never questioned whether Green was faking them if that is what happened. By even asking, you are raising doubts about the player’s integrity/toughness and Green wasn’t some okie-doke rookie, he was a respected veteran. Players talk and I will guarantee you that Texans from that roster as well as other players around the league heard that story. Granted, this was just one side to the story, but we were about to hear more.

The next morning on the radio, we were discussing Ahman Green’s interview and comments and former Texans’ defensive back Marcus Coleman called into the show to give his opinion of Rick Smith and how the Texans are run. Coleman has no axe to grand with Smith as he was gone from the Texans before Smith came along, but Marcus has spoken with players who have played under Smith and he’s still tight with a few people inside the organization who have given him info over the years. If you’re thinking of trying to discredit Marcus Coleman with some type of “DUI” blast, save it.

I’ve spoken to Marcus at length over the last two years and he’s simply frustrated at what he sees. Coleman came from the Bill Parcells school of building and coaching a team and he played under then defensive coordinator Bill Belichick. As a Houstonian, Marcus shares the same frustration that we all feel while watching this regime operate, but he has the added burden of understanding how things should and could be done differently.

Rick Smith Must Build Bridges

There are two keys to being a good general manager (or team builder in any business) and those keys are respect and communication. I’m not sure that Rick Smith has the respect of the players based on some of the run-ins he’s had with veterans. With contract issues, you can’t make everyone happy but guys like Dunta Robinson and Aaron Schobel seemed to really be frustrated with how things went down and both have hinted that they didn’t think things were dealt with honestly. Once players think a head coach or GM is dishonest, they have a tough time bouncing back from that. Perception becomes reality around the league.

I think Rick Smith was overwhelmed when he was hired as the Texans GM. Hell, who wouldn’t he have been? Smith was a first time general manager and he was working with a first time head coach. Nobody comes in ready at those two positions; you simply sink or swim as the years go on. The best way to “swim” is to build relationships with agents and personnel people around the league and to assemble an intelligent scouting department whose opinions and experience you can utilize when it comes time to evaluate talent.

When agents call, you have to call them back. You can’t leave an agent waiting for a return call no matter what he’s calling about because he may have a free agent or even an undrafted free agent you might covet down the road and it is best to be on good terms with as many agents as possible. When it comes time to land that big free agent, you have to be in position to land the first visit if you want win that battle. When a GM networks around the league properly, he will have a better chance of knowing which players can be had for cheap on the trading block (i.e. safety Chris Harris being dealt from Bears to Panthers for a 5th rounder in 2008), which players are going to be cap casualties and what the general scuttlebutt around the league is.

As for the scouting department, I’ve met and become friends with many scouts from around the league over the last 10 years and I’ve seen just how good many of the scouting departments around the league are. While there are some teams (like the Texans) who believe that the coaches and front office should handle much of the draft evaluation, other teams find it valuable to rely on their experienced scouting departments to handle most of the legwork in terms of evaluation. My feeling is that the more intelligent football minds you surround yourself with, the greater your chances are for success come draft day.

Can Rick Smith Succeed?

Rick Smith can absolutely succeed and I think he’s learned quite a bit on the job over the years. There is a perception around some league circles that Smith is aloof and cocky and Smith should go out of his way to break down this image of him. If he feels like that is a mis-characterization, then prove people wrong. Smith is still young and trying to build a reputation in the league so it wouldn’t hurt to have people around the league like him. The Texans organization has a reputation for being somewhat cliquish, but Smith has intelligence, confidence and the ability to charm when he wants to.

As I stated before, I think Smith needs to really focus on making sure that everyone in that organization – from players to coaches – believe that he has their backs and is working with them to build the best team possible. Whether he realizes it or not, some players on the current roster are unsure in that regard. I also believe that despite the “one voice” approach by the Texans, Smith has an opportunity to become a more prominent voice/face within the Texans organization if he’s willing to open up and become more personable.

Despite what you might think, Gary Kubiak doesn’t make all of the personnel decisions for the Texans. Rick Smith is heavily involved. I hope that Rick Smith eventually reads this and I hope he realizes that it isn’t meant as a slam, but merely an honest critique based on comments I’ve received from others around the league. I have friends who work for other teams around the league and I’ve watched their teams fail and succeed over the years and I’ve learned quite a bit through their failures and success. I want desperately for the Texans to have success and I want Rick Smith to help build a strong, balanced roster.

When it is all said and done, just draft good players, make smart free agent signings, keep your good players under contract and be the GM for a playoff team and we can forget I ever wrote this long, meandering post.

disaacks3
06-21-2011, 11:22 AM
but guys like Dunta Robinson and Aaron Schobel seemed to really be frustrated with how things went down and both have hinted that they didn’t think things were dealt with honestly. ...and I don't think either one of them dealt very honestly with the Texas, where does that leave us? :kitten:

The Ahman Green thing was originated by his former coach while at the Packers...who just happened to be coaching here. While I don't think his (Rick's) approach was very smooth, it sure didn't come out of nowhere and 'originate' with him.

I've got a great deal of respect for LZ (and lord knows I'm not defending Smith), but this comes across like somebody who's chummy with former players who all have an axe to grind here or there.

Tell you what, let's survey all the NFL players and ask them about their pay. Give 'em three options:

1) I'm Overpaid
2) I'm paid exactly what I'm worth
3) I'm underpaid

....I'm guessing that option #3 will be vastly appealing.

euro-Texan
06-21-2011, 11:27 AM
...and I don't think either one of them dealt very honestly with the Texas, where does that leave us? :kitten:The Ahman Green thing was originated by his former coach while at the Packers...who just happened to be coaching here. While I don't think his (Rick's) approach was very smooth, it sure didn't come out of nowhere and 'originate' with him.

I've got a great deal of respect for LZ (and lord knows I'm not defending Smith), but this comes across like somebody who's chummy with former players who all have an axe to grind here or there.

Tell you what, let's survey all the NFL players and ask them about their pay. Give 'em three options:

1) I'm Overpaid
2) I'm paid exactly what I'm worth
3) I'm underpaid

....I'm guessing that option #3 will be vastly appealing.

Since when do players deal honestly with teams? How many players use free agency visits just to establish a base price with no real intention of signing with us? This is a business right? That's what the players preach; I could care less if he is less than honest with them.

dalemurphy
06-21-2011, 11:35 AM
It's a fabulous article! I am a Rick Smith supporter and though I realize he did not earn another year as GM of the Texans, I quickly got behind the decision once it was made. One thing I like about Kubiak and Smith is that I believe they learn and grow from mistakes. If we ever get to the off-season and 2011 season, it is going to be a very enlightening one, I think.

Double Barrel
06-21-2011, 11:38 AM
I judge a GM on the job he does, especially as it pertains to bringing in much needed talent.

And based on last year's "we're going young" with our secondary and the subsequent poor results, I'm not impressed with him at all.

All this behind the scenes speculation is interesting, but ultimately irrelevant to me as a fan. I want positive results, and so far, he and Kubiak have built nothing more than a mediocre team that knows how to lose but cannot seem to win as a team. As a collective front office, they are nothing special at this time.

Maybe this personality conflict stuff is relevant to bringing in or repelling talent from our franchise, but it's still speculation and opinion right now.

Hopefully he can acquire the talent that Wade needs to build a solid defense, and then we can re-evaluate the results after a season (or two, since they will probably be here through 2012).

Rey
06-21-2011, 12:29 PM
I'm with DB...

Doesn't really matter what has happened behind the curtains....

If the play sucks, then the play sucks...

Rick Smith Could be the most anti-social, awkward, people repelling GM in the league, but none of that would matter if he was winning. In fact people would try to turn that into the reason he was so great.

Look at Tom Landry and Vince Lombardi. Two guys who were almost polar opposites when it came to dealing with their players and people in their organization around them.

Kubiak is the same way. If he was winning people would probably look at his "aw shucks" attitude and think it was cute or something....

But becauase he's been the coach of a losing franchise he just looks like a big ol' dummy.

Texecutioner
06-21-2011, 12:55 PM
I don't blame the Texans or Rick Smith on what happened with Schobel. From all the reports I read, it seemed like Schobel was out of shape and didn't have the drive to play a full season really. The Texans did have talks with him, but when it never happened I wasn't surprised. The guy just didn't seem to have his heart in it anymore and had we signed him we probably would have vastly over paid for his services.

GP
06-21-2011, 01:06 PM
Really liked what rey posted earlier in this thread.

When you're winning as a GM or HC, people have a lot more tolerance.

This goes back to what I said in the Ahman Green thread: When you're the league's doormat for so long, you're gonna' get people like Green/Carr/Robinson who see an opportunity to boost themselves by blasting their former team.

It's like punching a blind man and acting like you're tough.

I don't think there's as much of a problem with the HC and GM as there is with how I think (key word here is "think") the OWNER wants his HC and GM to do their jobs.

I think McNair has conditioned everyone in the FO to never approach Casserly levels ever again, to the point of over-correcting and going too far the other way. Rick Smith unfortunately is just playing the game like he knows his boss wants him to. Add Gary's name to that list, too.

They're all guilty, but the chief enabler is McNair. He makes everything go.

EDIT: The Casserly era was marked by lots of free agents (mostly aging vets like Payne and Walker and Coleman and Glenn etc.) and more aging vets (Todd Wade, for example). The Rick Smith era is marked by mostly building through the draft and only a handful of free agents who serve as depth and fringe-type contributors. IMO, McNair tried one way and now he's trying another. Maybe the next era will see McNair with a Fox News mindset: Fair & Balanced.

HoustonFrog
06-21-2011, 01:23 PM
I'll admit. I'm stunned by the spin I'm seeing in these threads. Recruiting is a big part of free agency. Players talk. As I said in the last thread this isn't the first time I've heard the guy is a know it all, world class prick. It has been said in many circles for years and LZ alluded to it. Yeah it makes it better if he is a prick but winning but there is a difference in being a Jimmy Johnson type ball buster where players want to play for you and being a losing team that has a GM that is standoffish and is known as not being totally honest. As a player why would you want to throw your hat into that ring if you don't trust the people in the organization. The fact that this is a topic a year or more after this guy should have been fired shows you why this organization hasn't been on the right track. Alot of players leave their teams over disputes. You don't see many of them going off on the people running the teams.

Rey
06-21-2011, 01:57 PM
As a player why would you want to throw your hat into that ring if you don't trust the people in the organization.

Because they win and they pay you well.

People go into deals all the time where the reward outweigh the potential risks.

Alot of players leave their teams over disputes. You don't see many of them going off on the people running the teams.

If the team is a winning team, why would they go off on that organization. They'd just look like fools.

I can assure you that there have been plenty of players from losing teams that leave and badmouth the organization. We probably just don't hear about them all just as I'm sure there are many fans from other teams who have not heard anything about this shit.

HoustonFrog
06-21-2011, 02:03 PM
Because they win and they pay you well.

Sure, that is an easy answer. But that then begs the question of "how do you get to that winner status?" So if you are recruiting FAs and one choice is a young organization with a good fan base and great perks but their GM is a dbag who you are iffy about and the other team is close in everything else but their GM is known around circles as a guy who has it together and who is doing the right stuff, who do you go with?That is what people are missing. There is no reason for Smith to be Smith until he wins so saying winning cures all sounds great unless the people you have are preventing that.

disaacks3
06-21-2011, 02:22 PM
Sure, that is an easy answer. But that then begs the question of "how do you get to that winner status?" So if you are recruiting FAs and one choice is a young organization with a good fan base and great perks but their GM is a dbag who you are iffy about and the other team is close in everything else but their GM is known around circles as a guy who has it together and who is doing the right stuff, who do you go with?That is what people are missing. There is no reason for Smith to be Smith until he wins so saying winning cures all sounds great unless the people you have are preventing that.

What "circles"? We have reports from how many top-tier believable guys here?

Schoebel? (everybody is convinced he wasn't ready to get into playing shape)

Robinson? (wah, wah, I had to play for 9 million..nuff said)

Green? (His old coach thought he was tanking it)

Coleman? (A guy who NEVER, EVER interacted with Smith)

The most believable guy here is LZ, but if he's basing his premise on the feedback from this pack of clowns alone, he's nuts (or simply advertising for 1560).

I get what you (and LZ) are saying, but find me ONE FA guy who gave Rick Smith as a reason he wouldn't want to come to Houston.

HoustonFrog
06-21-2011, 02:33 PM
What "circles"? We have reports from how many top-tier believable guys here?

Schoebel? (everybody is convinced he wasn't ready to get into playing shape)

Robinson? (wah, wah, I had to play for 9 million..nuff said)

Green? (His old coach thought he was tanking it)

Coleman? (A guy who NEVER, EVER interacted with Smith)

The most believable guy here is LZ, but if he's basing his premise on the feedback from this pack of clowns alone, he's nuts (or simply advertising for 1560).

I get what you (and LZ) are saying, but find me ONE FA guy who gave Rick Smith as a reason he wouldn't want to come to Houston.


Seriously, are people really this defensive about Smith?

I know people here hate Justice....I'm his #1 hater...but he has been saying the same thing for 3 years now about Smith. Now that could be personal with him but I find it strange that it matches up with all of this. Where there is smoke there is fire when it gets past 1, 2 and 3 guys. We don't know how many FAs aren't coming here but even if these guys alone told their friends and Coleman was right, then guys aren't even entertaining the Texans. I won't take Ritchie's word but Coleman is saying he is hearing it from his player buddies. So all of these guys are just grinding an axe? This makes a difference...especially considering the poor track record + the attitude. I don't buy into everything LZ and others say but with his Dad's connections and all I trust he hears more from sources than anyone on this board. His article wasn't even a hatchet job...he wants the guy to succeed. It is basically laying out what is being said...and it makes a difference when bringing in players.

Rey
06-21-2011, 03:11 PM
Sure, that is an easy answer. But that then begs the question of "how do you get to that winner status?" So if you are recruiting FAs and one choice is a young organization with a good fan base and great perks but their GM is a dbag who you are iffy about and the other team is close in everything else but their GM is known around circles as a guy who has it together and who is doing the right stuff, who do you go with?That is what people are missing. There is no reason for Smith to be Smith until he wins so saying winning cures all sounds great unless the people you have are preventing that.

I'm not saying Rick Smith isn't a factor at all.

I'm saying that his attitude isn't as big a factor as it's made out to be. His bad drafts, not retaining Dunta and having Jackson and Quinn as starters, lack of experience, and his lack of results have hurt this team more than any pissy attitude problem he may have.

Success comes in many different packages. Hitler may have been one of the most evil souls to ever inhabit the planet, but that didn't stop him from inspiring and obtaining hundreds of thousands of followers.

HoustonFrog
06-21-2011, 03:21 PM
I'm not saying Rick Smith isn't a factor at all.

I'm saying that his attitude isn't as big a factor as it's made out to be. His bad drafts, not retaining Dunta and having Jackson and Quinn as starters, lack of experience, and his lack of results have hurt this team more than any pissy attitude problem he may have.

Success comes in many different packages. Hitler may have been one of the most evil souls to ever inhabit the planet, but that didn't stop him from inspiring and obtaining hundreds of thousands of followers.

We agree on alot of this. But I'm not worried as much about his attitude in general as his attitude regarding dealing with players...honesty, etc. To me the guy comes across as the smartest guy in the room despite the fact that he hasn't done a thing. Disingenuous is the word.

disaacks3
06-21-2011, 03:23 PM
Seriously, are people really this defensive about Smith?

I know people here hate Justice....I'm his #1 hater...but he has been saying the same thing for 3 years now about Smith. Now that could be personal with him but I find it strange that it matches up with all of this. Where there is smoke there is fire when it gets past 1, 2 and 3 guys. We don't know how many FAs aren't coming here but even if these guys alone told their friends and Coleman was right, then guys aren't even entertaining the Texans. I won't take Ritchie's word but Coleman is saying he is hearing it from his player buddies. So all of these guys are just grinding an axe? This makes a difference...especially considering the poor track record + the attitude. I don't buy into everything LZ and others say but with his Dad's connections and all I trust he hears more from sources than anyone on this board. His article wasn't even a hatchet job...he wants the guy to succeed. It is basically laying out what is being said...and it makes a difference when bringing in players.

Therein lies your false assumtion, I'm anything BUT a Smith defender. I just fail to see how these few REALLY LOUSY examples point out a bad GM in ANYbody's book. Point to wasted picks and lousy (or lack of) FA pickups, but not this garbage. If these are the best examples that LZ's got, well, he's gotta keep busy somehow with the lockout still on, doesn't he?

Once again, give me ONE (uno, ein, etc) example of a FA that chose not to come to Houston because of Rick Smith. I don't think LZ can. Why? The only time players deal with the GM is trying to get a contract signed. If they're bright players, they let their agents handle it. Handling an Agent roughly? Who'd care?

GP
06-21-2011, 03:29 PM
Bob McNair is escaping so much blame right now, it's not even funny.

Find me a turd-head teenager out there and I'll show you a set of parents who were either too soft on the kid OR were too hard on the kid.

One way or another, Rick Smith is McNair's creation. He continues to have him around, it's McNair's baby. Therefore, I'm growing tired of worrying about Kubiak this and Smith that, etc., etc. Because ya' know what? At the end of the day, they're here (still) because their boss McNair for some insane reason wants to believe there's no way he (McNair) could get it wrong two times in a row: Once with Capers/Casserly and now with Kubiak/Smith.

In fact, Kubiak's improvement of the offense, the rare find of Arian Foster, and now Wade Phillips has only emboldened McNair to feel good about things.

I can't muster the strength to ***** and piss and moan about the guys McNair hired and retains, in spite of their obvious and consistent flaws, because my sole focus of frustration is placed squarely upon Bob McNair himself.

Therefore, I could give two shits about what several bottom feeder has-beens and never-will-be's have to say about a situation only McNair can solve but refuses to out of God only knows what motives and "belief system."

To me, this isn't about how Rick Smith has hurt us. This is about how our owner has allowed a lot of dumb crap to hurt us...and thinks we're on a glorious road to fame and superstardom. Smith and Kubiak are symptoms of the illness, IMO.

HoustonFrog
06-21-2011, 03:35 PM
Therein lies your false assumtion, I'm anything BUT a Smith defender. I just fail to see how these few REALLY LOUSY examples point out a bad GM in ANYbody's book. Point to wasted picks and lousy (or lack of) FA pickups, but not this garbage. If these are the best examples that LZ's got, well, he's gotta keep busy somehow with the lockout still on, doesn't he?

Once again, give me ONE (uno, ein, etc) example of a FA that chose not to come to Houston because of Rick Smith. I don't think LZ can. Why? The only time players deal with the GM is trying to get a contract signed. If they're bright players, they let their agents handle it. Handling an Agent roughly? Who'd care?

As I said above I agree with you and Rey on alot of this. It isn't an assumption though, it was the response and the many responses so far. It doesn't mean you like Rick Smith the GM but in a way you are coming to bat for how he works by saying it doesn't matter. That bothers me considering the Texans need every advantage they can get. There is a difference between a guy who plays hard ball and a guy who thinks he is a badass yet is a horrible GM. If a player and his agent thinks the guy isn't aboveboard than they might avoid the situation altogether. Right, we don't know a number on guys who didn't come because of Smith...just like we don't know who the Texans secretly courted over the years (like they have lied...errr...claimed to have done). It is all so hush, hush you know...on the right track. Again, I'll take LZ and who he knows more than any knowledge I have or anyone else here has on the situation. That is his job and he has alot more connections. Being judged as a GM is the #1 criteria but it doesn't help to be judged bad and then be a dbag on top of it who is considered dishonest.

disaacks3
06-21-2011, 03:46 PM
It isn't an assumption, it was the response and the many responses so far. It doesn't mean you like Rick Smith the GM but in a way you are coming to bat for a guy who has seemed to rub people the wrong way for a long time now. That bothers me considering the Texans need every advantage they can get. There is a difference between a guy who plays hard ball and a guy who thinks he is a badass yet is a horrible GM. If a player and his agent thinks the guy isn't aboveboard than they might avoid the situation altogether. Right, we don't know a number on guys who didn't come because of Smith...just like we don't know who the Texans secretly courted over the years (like they have lied...errr...claimed to have done). It is all so hush, hush you know...on the right track. Again, I'll take LZ and who he knows more than any knowledge I have or anyone else here has on the situation. That is his job and he has alot more connections.

Once again, you're making an assumption that I'm coming to bat for ANYONE. GM's deal with this garbage year-in/year-out. I think Bill Polian is an *********, but the Colts get it done on the field. He's a KNOWN ********* to the entire media. Here, LZ is trying to lump Smith into that same fray without the baggage folks like Polian have accrued. How about Jerry Jones (and son Steven), how about the Dolphins GM that asked a player if his mom was a prostitute? Find me stories like that about Rick Smith and I'll see the demon that's being portrayed, rather than a guy that 'jilted players' are upset about.

Do I think he's a good/great GM? Not by a long shot. Do I think he could be adequate? Certainly.

gary
06-21-2011, 03:47 PM
I agree with Frog we are so quick to dismiss these statements just because none of these players were not ever Pro bowlers when they played here.

disaacks3
06-21-2011, 03:51 PM
I agree with Frog we are so quick to dismiss these statements just because none of these players were ever Pro bowlers when they played here.

That list (of Texans Pro Bowlers) is unfortunately short. The rub with that is this....are the Texans where careers come to die? Are we the NFL equivalent of an ambassador posting?

gary
06-21-2011, 03:59 PM
That list (of Texans Pro Bowlers) is unfortunately short. The rub with that is this....are the Texans where careers come to die? Are we the NFL equivalent of an ambassador posting?Does that mean we should just quickly dismiss anything and everything they spout out on a daily bases?

Rey
06-21-2011, 04:07 PM
I agree with Frog we are so quick to dismiss these statements just because none of these players were not ever Pro bowlers when they played here.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not dismissing the statements. In fact, I believe where there is smoke there is ususally fire. I actually believe that these statements are true.

What I'm saying is that I don't think it has a huge affect on the outcome of games on any given Sunday.

When Schaub came here I don't even think he spent a lot of time talking to Smith. He spent his time with Kubiak at the Golf course.

Even though there has been this speculation about Smith, Schoebel still openly said he wanted to play for us. It never got worked out, but Smith being an ass didn't deter him from wanting to be a part of the organization. Dunta said he didn't mid coming back....Ahman Green decided to come here...

There have been opprotunities out there to make the team better. The Texans haven't capatalized.

HoustonFrog
06-21-2011, 04:11 PM
Once again, you're making an assumption that I'm coming to bat for ANYONE. GM's deal with this garbage year-in/year-out. I think Bill Polian is an *********, but the Colts get it done on the field. He's a KNOWN ********* to the entire media. Here, LZ is trying to lump Smith into that same fray without the baggage folks like Polian have accrued. How about Jerry Jones (and son Steven), how about the Dolphins GM that asked a player if his mom was a prostitute? Find me stories like that about Rick Smith and I'll see the demon that's being portrayed, rather than a guy that 'jilted players' are upset about.

Do I think he's a good/great GM? Not by a long shot. Do I think he could be adequate? Certainly.

I'm not making an assumption, your statements say it all. You claim you aren't defending or coming to bat for him but then you go on to say that other guys are worse and you have yet to see him being a bad guy. That is coming to bat for him compared to others. Doesn't mean you like Smith in general. This is the Texans. A losing franchise. What do any of these players get out of saying stuff about Smith? Green was considered a consummate professional in GB before coming here. Coleman isn't even in the league and is just restating what he is hearing from other players. Scheobel was considered one of the good guys out there and a local guy. Smoke and fire to me. That is all I'm saying. This type stuff has been talked about for 3 years now and is only coming to light because of Green's comments. I think people need to separate the idea of Smith the ahole and Smith the dishonest guy. One doesn't make a difference if he is doing a good job, the other can come back and bite you when dealing with players at anytime.

infantrycak
06-21-2011, 04:14 PM
I agree with dissack the player testimony is pretty thin. But that has been pretty well hashed out.

For consideration though is that Smith was named to the Competition Committee. Evidently he gets along well enough at times to get that appointment which is regarded as a plum.

Ole Miss Texan
06-21-2011, 04:36 PM
How often do players deal with the GM? Pretty much during contract negotiations? Even at that, the players' agent is the one doing most of the wheeling and dealing. Agents can be your friends or enemies. They can spread rumors, they can spin things to their clients (the free agent you want), they can lead their clients to teams that "may pay better" or "easier to get a deal done". Personally if I'm the owner, I want my GM to be a hard ass. He's the one that's running the show like a business. I love "players coaches" but my GM is a business man. With that said, there's a very fine line and you don't want to turn off potential free agents in the future due to a reputation of playing hardball or overly tough negotiator.

gary
06-21-2011, 04:55 PM
How much affects does these alleged conflicts actually have on the games? No one knows. But it is still not good.

houstonspartan
06-21-2011, 05:03 PM
Sigh. And around and 'round we go...

1) Schoebel never wanted to play. He was done with football. He showed up fat.

2) Dunta wanted to go to another team. We offered him WAAAAAY above his fair price. He said no, THEN, when the fans turned on him, he tried to turn himself into a victim. Nope. Not buying it.

3) Most GM's are hard-asses.


4) I was in Smith's corner up until this past season. Sorry, but there has to be come accountability with BOTH the GM AND the Head Coach.


5) If Kubiak is fired after next season, he will never, ever, ever be a head coach again. Ever. His record is too out there for inspection. Had McNair fired him a couple of years ago instead of extended him, then, sure, he could have eased his way into a head coaching gig. But, if he fails next year, that will be six years with no playoff run. That's blatant and inexcusable and hard to ignore. He will never live that down.

6) To DaleMurphy, who says that Smith and Kubiak always learn from their mistakes, I will say this: 6-10.

gary
06-21-2011, 05:15 PM
Hopefully the football season will begin very soon and this debate will then end.

GP
06-21-2011, 05:36 PM
Does that mean we should just quickly dismiss anything and everything they spout out on a daily bases?

How do we dissect and analyze the vast volume of a man's everyday life?

The things he says. The things he makes faces at. If he's grumpy some of the day, or all of the day, or is always happy all the time. What if he's JUST a turd to people he senses are being turds to him? To address a recurring theme in this thread thus far: It's possible that Richard Justice is the world's biggest turd himself, and so I can't really base my opinion on Rick Smith just by whether RJ gets along with him well or not. I've never seen Rick Smith make an ass of himself in public (such as in a written column or radio or TV appearance) the way RJ has...so the score for me is like Rick 0 and RJ 1,235.

We're to believe that none of these ex-players brought any hardships upon themselves? What if Ahman had told several fellow players about how he wasn't really THAT hurt (or they sensed it or overheard it from him sometime) and one or more of those players got fed up with it and tattled on him to a coach and then the coach told the GM and the GM confronted him on it? There could be lots we don't know about; lots that a stellar man such as Ahman Green (old Loose Lips himself) might be failing to include in his gossip session with his audience.

I speculate all the time around here, and there's one person who always reminds me that it's just not possible to know--with utmost certainty--what goes on inside the Texans main offices and with people like Rick Smith and how everything is truly handled each day, or weekly, or within the scope of a whole year.

I wish that person would take a moment to inform some of you guys that you're doing the same thing I get my ass scolded for all the time around here.

I must be in the Twilight Zone because I'm usually all about taking the chance to rag on Smithiak, but I guess with this owner-imposed lockout it's made me just tune out what those guys are or aren't doing right...and my ire is raised against the owner. Not only am I looking at misery if an owner like McNair signs off on continuing the lockout, but I am probably looking at misery if there is a season and McNair continues to cry and pat players' backs when they lose overtime games because it's a sign of how far we've come as a team.

Either way, I'm a paper bag, some horse crap, a cigarette lighter, and a doorstep at midnight away from showing Bob McNair how much I believe in his "right track" state of mind. LOL.

gary
06-21-2011, 05:52 PM
How do we dissect and analyze the vast volume of a man's everyday life?

The things he says. The things he makes faces at. If he's grumpy some of the day, or all of the day, or is always happy all the time. What if he's JUST a turd to people he senses are being turds to him? To address a recurring theme in this thread thus far: It's possible that Richard Justice is the world's biggest turd himself, and so I can't really base my opinion on Rick Smith just by whether RJ gets along with him well or not. I've never seen Rick Smith make an ass of himself in public (such as in a written column or radio or TV appearance) the way RJ has...so the score for me is like Rick 0 and RJ 1,235.

We're to believe that none of these ex-players brought any hardships upon themselves? What if Ahman had told several fellow players about how he wasn't really THAT hurt (or they sensed it or overheard it from him sometime) and one or more of those players got fed up with it and tattled on him to a coach and then the coach told the GM and the GM confronted him on it? There could be lots we don't know about; lots that a stellar man such as Ahman Green (old Loose Lips himself) might be failing to include in his gossip session with his audience.

I speculate all the time around here, and there's one person who always reminds me that it's just not possible to know--with utmost certainty--what goes on inside the Texans main offices and with people like Rick Smith and how everything is truly handled each day, or weekly, or within the scope of a whole year.

I wish that person would take a moment to inform some of you guys that you're doing the same thing I get my ass scolded for all the time around here.

I must be in the Twilight Zone because I'm usually all about taking the chance to rag on Smithiak, but I guess with this owner-imposed lockout it's made me just tune out what those guys are or aren't doing right...and my ire is raised against the owner. Not only am I looking at misery if an owner like McNair signs off on continuing the lockout, but I am probably looking at misery if there is a season and McNair continues to cry and pat players' backs when they lose overtime games because it's a sign of how far we've come as a team.

Either way, I'm a paper bag, some horse crap, a cigarette lighter, and a doorstep at midnight away from showing Bob McNair how much I believe in his "right track" state of mind. LOL.I don't know how you came up with this based on my post. I am looking at it from one prospective and you are looking at it from another when honestly no one here will ever know for sure.:wadepalm::chili:

GP
06-21-2011, 06:08 PM
I don't know how you came up with this based on my post. I am looking at it from one prospective and you are looking at it from another when honestly no one here will ever know for sure.:wadepalm::chili:

You're offering up one-sentence posts and leaving it up to interpretation, gary.

Plus, you'll side with one idea today and then you'll come back tomorrow and post something that says you're now thinking differently.

I'm fine with that, I really am. We can change our minds 125 times if we want to. But if you say you think what ex-players "think" about Rick Smith is very important and has an impact on the Texans, then I have to say that I disagree with that.

None of us know what baggage Carr/Robinson/Green brought to the table. All we hear from them is how BAD old Rick Smith is and how their lives were ruined by him to some degree. I never hear Rick Smith coming onto a telecast and sharing gossip about Carr-Robinson-Green.

From that standpoint, I at least have to give credit to Bob, Kubiak, and Smith for at least refusing to trade shots with those poor, victimized disgruntled ex-players who would have been bound for glory had it not been for the dastardly Rick Smith standing in their way.

I guess I just hate the whole "victimization" angle that I see being portrayed here. They're all adults, for crying out loud. Big boys. And yet they're acting like children who had their candy stolen from them.

gary
06-21-2011, 06:24 PM
You're offering up one-sentence posts and leaving it up to interpretation, gary.

Plus, you'll side with one idea today and then you'll come back tomorrow and post something that says you're now thinking differently.

I'm fine with that, I really am. We can change our minds 125 times if we want to. But if you say you think what ex-players "think" about Rick Smith is very important and has an impact on the Texans, then I have to say that I disagree with that.

None of us know what baggage Carr/Robinson/Green brought to the table. All we hear from them is how BAD old Rick Smith is and how their lives were ruined by him to some degree. I never hear Rick Smith coming onto a telecast and sharing gossip about Carr-Robinson-Green.

From that standpoint, I at least have to give credit to Bob, Kubiak, and Smith for at least refusing to trade shots with those poor, victimized disgruntled ex-players who would have been bound for glory had it not been for the dastardly Rick Smith standing in their way.

I guess I just hate the whole "victimization" angle that I see being portrayed here. They're all adults, for crying out loud. Big boys. And yet they're acting like children who had their candy stolen from them.I might be offering up one you're taking my posts and running with them. I won't change my opinion unless I know all of the facts nor do you and we never will. Does it make me a baby to go on the radio or an article to talk about someone or a law I don't like? I thought I reserve the right to do so please inform me otherwise.

GP
06-21-2011, 07:38 PM
I might be offering up one you're taking my posts and running with them. I won't change my opinion unless I know all of the facts nor do you and we never will. Does it make me a baby to go on the radio or an article to talk about someone or a law I don't like? I thought I reserve the right to do so please inform me otherwise.

Don't do this, please.

You say it's bad for the Texans. I see lots of Texans (53 of them every year) and some on the practice squad, and the guys we sign off the street when we need to, and none of them have refused the paycheck and opportunity just because Rick Smith wasn't taking them out for ice cream and miniature golf on the weekends.

This whole thing is just getting absurd, IMO. I'm supposed to care about a few bench warmers and one overpaid CB for the Falcons and how they say Rick Smith is single-handedly ruining the Texans because he's not nice to people.

I disagreed with you before, and I still do now.

Argue the topic, please. I've made my case as best I can. And I see no way that the Texans are bad because Rick Smith is somehow driving players away from this team. This sucky team is a product of bad football tactics and a slowness to change direction, not bad interpersonal communication skills.

I wonder what this team would have looked like had we not had the extra Carr season, and had we fired Richard Smith after only one year of his pathetic defense that Frank Bush gleefully came along and tried to re-package as a new one. THAT is what has hurt us, not Rick Smith being a cranky person to get along with.

gary
06-21-2011, 08:01 PM
Don't do this, please.

You say it's bad for the Texans. I see lots of Texans (53 of them every year) and some on the practice squad, and the guys we sign off the street when we need to, and none of them have refused the paycheck and opportunity just because Rick Smith wasn't taking them out for ice cream and miniature golf on the weekends.

This whole thing is just getting absurd, IMO. I'm supposed to care about a few bench warmers and one overpaid CB for the Falcons and how they say Rick Smith is single-handedly ruining the Texans because he's not nice to people.

I disagreed with you before, and I still do now.

Argue the topic, please. I've made my case as best I can. And I see no way that the Texans are bad because Rick Smith is somehow driving players away from this team. This sucky team is a product of bad football tactics and a slowness to change direction, not bad interpersonal communication skills.

I wonder what this team would have looked like had we not had the extra Carr season, and had we fired Richard Smith after only one year of his pathetic defense that Frank Bush gleefully came along and tried to re-package as a new one. THAT is what has hurt us, not Rick Smith being a cranky person to get along with.Have you ever worked for Smith? Keep on with your chapter books on here. NOBODY KNOWS HOW DEEP THE PROBLEMS RUN FOR THE TEXANS. Got it? Andre Johnson has never bashed the front office here but if you ever had dinner with him in his house and he quietly started to open up to you about front office issues I don't know about you but I'd be all ears because AJ is normally plight and low keyed so something must have really gotten his goat.

GP
06-21-2011, 08:18 PM
Have you ever worked for Smith? Keep on with your chapter books on here. NOBODY KNOWS HOW DEEP THE PROBLEMS RUN FOR THE TEXANS. Got it? Andre Johnson has never bashed the front office here but if you ever had dinner with him in his house and he quietly started to open up to you about front office issues I don't know about you but I'd be all ears because AJ is normally plight and low keyed so something must have really gotten his goat.

You're looking for things that might not even exist. Period.

And how long I type is not the issue here. Save it for a private message if you want to make fun of me. I won't make fun of you on here, but you go right ahead if you want to try and get over with some people with that sort of talk.

AJ might open up to me? Why? I bet he's pretty happy with his situation when he sees me in my Kohl's clothes and knows I wake up every day without getting the chance to do what he can do. He's a rare guy because he's not only great talent, but it seems he also knows it's a business. Not a charity.

I guess we just live in a sensationalized culture where we just don't really know the whole story until one day when we find out how bad Rick Smith's attitude has cost the Texans every Sunday.

I don't think there's any bombshells in terms of BIG NEWS that will blow the lid off the Rick Smith era. He and Kubiak are doing just fine with their inability to out-maneuver opponents...they don't have to worry about whether their inability to be nice guys to every player 24 hours-a-day is impacting how many free agents we have missed out on.

Looking for an axe to grind? Start with the guy who hired them and keeps them.

gary
06-21-2011, 08:32 PM
You're looking for things that might not even exist. Period.

And how long I type is not the issue here. Save it for a private message if you want to make fun of me. I won't make fun of you on here, but you go right ahead if you want to try and get over with some people with that sort of talk.

AJ might open up to me? Why? I bet he's pretty happy with his situation when he sees me in my Kohl's clothes and knows I wake up every day without getting the chance to do what he can do. He's a rare guy because he's not only great talent, but it seems he also knows it's a business. Not a charity.

I guess we just live in a sensationalized culture where we just don't really know the whole story until one day when we find out how bad Rick Smith's attitude has cost the Texans every Sunday.

I don't think there's any bombshells in terms of BIG NEWS that will blow the lid off the Rick Smith era. He and Kubiak are doing just fine with their inability to out-maneuver opponents...they don't have to worry about whether their inability to be nice guys to every player 24 hours-a-day is impacting how many free agents we have missed out on.

Looking for an axe to grind? Start with the guy who hired them and keeps them.I used an example with AJ and now you want to know why he would open up too you it was just an example not real man.. You're right none of this might exist but you nor I know enough to know who is right or wrong.

CloakNNNdagger
06-21-2011, 08:35 PM
How often do players deal with the GM? Pretty much during contract negotiations? Even at that, the players' agent is the one doing most of the wheeling and dealing. Agents can be your friends or enemies. They can spread rumors, they can spin things to their clients (the free agent you want), they can lead their clients to teams that "may pay better" or "easier to get a deal done". Personally if I'm the owner, I want my GM to be a hard ass. He's the one that's running the show like a business. I love "players coaches" but my GM is a business man. With that said, there's a very fine line and you don't want to turn off potential free agents in the future due to a reputation of playing hardball or overly tough negotiator.

Especially if you are not a winning franchise.

badboy
06-21-2011, 10:14 PM
I don't blame the Texans or Rick Smith on what happened with Schobel. From all the reports I read, it seemed like Schobel was out of shape and didn't have the drive to play a full season really. The Texans did have talks with him, but when it never happened I wasn't surprised. The guy just didn't seem to have his heart in it anymore and had we signed him we probably would have vastly over paid for his services.

This is my opinion also. It is up to McNair to step up and say sign Nnamdi A. I'll write the check. I am not real pleased with Smith or Kubiak but Schoebel not on them

GP
06-21-2011, 10:16 PM
I used an example with AJ and now you want to know why he would open up too you it was just an example not real man.. You're right none of this might exist but you nor I know enough to know who is right or wrong.

So if neither of us know for sure, why would we just 100% believe what a few ex-players try to say (especially when it comes off as them just being mad about being fired from playing for the Texans)?

I'd be pissed off, too, if a sorry excuse for a team (The Texans) cut me or wanted me gone. It hits at a man's pride when you think you're being booted from a place that you think should be glad to have you.

Some people choose to not try and paint their former employer as being evil and worthless. I was fired from a very prominent organization right out of college (it was my first job after college). For awhile, all I could do was talk bad about them and say how wrong they were, and blah blah blah. After several years, I just realized that really I wasn't a good fit in that place. A lot of people are, but I was not. So be it. Today, I talk very neutral about that organization--I limit by hate speech when someone asks me about what it was like to work there.

I just think it's wisdom to move on from a place you were fired from, and to not let it get so under your skin that you can only gripe to everybody about how "bad" it is to have worked there. To me, Ahman Green did more harm to his character than he did to Rick Smith's. That's the last of what I want to post on this topic. I think everyone knows how we all feel, even if our opinions are different. I respect your position.

Shaft75
06-21-2011, 11:06 PM
So if neither of us know for sure, why would we just 100% believe what a few ex-players try to say (especially when it comes off as them just being mad about being fired from playing for the Texans)?

I'd be pissed off, too, if a sorry excuse for a team (The Texans) cut me or wanted me gone. It hits at a man's pride when you think you're being booted from a place that you think should be glad to have you.

Some people choose to not try and paint their former employer as being evil and worthless. I was fired from a very prominent organization right out of college (it was my first job after college). For awhile, all I could do was talk bad about them and say how wrong they were, and blah blah blah. After several years, I just realized that really I wasn't a good fit in that place. A lot of people are, but I was not. So be it. Today, I talk very neutral about that organization--I limit by hate speech when someone asks me about what it was like to work there.

I just think it's wisdom to move on from a place you were fired from, and to not let it get so under your skin that you can only gripe to everybody about how "bad" it is to have worked there. To me, Ahman Green did more harm to his character than he did to Rick Smith's. That's the last of what I want to post on this topic. I think everyone knows how we all feel, even if our opinions are different. I respect your position.

GP man I love your posts sometimes bro, but do you have to essay all of them?!?!

Lucky
06-21-2011, 11:30 PM
One thing I like about Kubiak and Smith is that I believe they learn and grow from mistakes.
What??? They hire a first time DC, and after being forced to fire him...then they hire another first time DC. Or they struggle with the league's youngest defense, and their answer is...to get even younger. I see zero growth from either man in regards to their profession. They still seem like rookies.

But, if he fails next year, that will be six years with no playoff run. That's blatant and inexcusable and hard to ignore. He will never live that down.
Kubiak become David Shula with another losing season. I hope Kubiak's dad has a steakhouse that needs a manager.

Norg
06-22-2011, 12:45 AM
If Kubes and rick fail

then Wade is our HC i for see this

its the since of streamline approach that mcnair wanted

GP
06-22-2011, 02:44 AM
GP man I love your posts sometimes bro, but do you have to essay all of them?!?!

I know, I know.

I start off like this....

Then I throw in a few more things that I think I want to say.

And I should stop right there, but then I think of more stuff. Then I go back and edit the post because one paragraph would fit better at the top instead of at the end of the post. Then I go and realize I used bad grammar or need to correct some spelling.

After awhile, it likes like this.

"I. Am a lover of sentences. I love to think of them. To write them down, and just re-organize the structure of them. I'm sorry...I just get so, uh, emotional about sentences. (wipes tears from eyes) I just LOVE SENTENCES!...." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTTwcCVajAc)

GP
06-22-2011, 02:45 AM
If Kubes and rick fail

then Wade is our HC i for see this

its the since of streamline approach that mcnair wanted

So, let me ask you guys something.

Am I the antithesis of Norg?

disaacks3
06-22-2011, 06:53 AM
What??? They hire a first time DC, and after being forced to fire him...then they hire another first time DC. Or they struggle with the league's youngest defense, and their answer is...to get even younger. I see zero growth from either man in regards to their profession. They still seem like rookies.


Kubiak become David Shula with another losing season. I hope Kubiak's dad has a steakhouse that needs a manager.

I'm honestly not sure if that points more at Kubiak/Smith or the man who signs BOTH of their checks.

Ole Miss Texan
06-22-2011, 09:00 AM
I see Rick Smith as the "last man standing" if we're talking about McNair getting rid of guys. I think he's tied pretty closely to Bob and Cal.

Texecutioner
06-22-2011, 09:13 AM
I know, I know.

I start off like this....

Then I throw in a few more things that I think I want to say.

And I should stop right there, but then I think of more stuff. Then I go back and edit the post because one paragraph would fit better at the top instead of at the end of the post. Then I go and realize I used bad grammar or need to correct some spelling.

After awhile, it likes like this.

"I. Am a lover of sentences. I love to think of them. To write them down, and just re-organize the structure of them. I'm sorry...I just get so, uh, emotional about sentences. (wipes tears from eyes) I just LOVE SENTENCES!...." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTTwcCVajAc)

I like the longer posts in many cases. That usually shows that the poster is willing to explain and ellaborate on his thoughts and why they came to the conclusion of their opinion instead of just writing a simple statement without examples or a thorough explanation of why their opinion became what it is. Sometimes short, sweet, and simple is better fit and the easier way to go, but I'd rather get a better understanding of why someone thinks the way they do.

Now go write an essay! :kingkong:

infantrycak
06-22-2011, 09:54 AM
I like the longer posts in many cases. That usually shows that the poster is willing to explain and ellaborate on his thoughts and why they came to the conclusion of their opinion instead of just writing a simple statement without examples or a thorough explanation of why their opinion became what it is. Sometimes short, sweet, and simple is better fit and the easier way to go, but I'd rather get a better understanding of why someone thinks the way they do.

Now go write an essay! :kingkong:

Stated another way - I like people who explain their opinions.

steelbtexan
06-22-2011, 10:19 AM
Truth hurts, The 2 reasons Smith still has his job are.

1. Billionaire BoBBy doesn't want to admit he made a mistake and pay off his contract. Same goes with Gary.

2 People dont want to talk about this but race has a place in him keeping his job. Billionaire BoBBy wants to come across as a guy who is forward thinking when it comes to hiring minorities within the Texans organization. This also played a part in Smith getting a seat on the competition committee.

This is more important to Billionaire BoBBY than winning and losing. Because if Smith was judged by his record on draft/FA/coaches/hiring scouts/ WL record like most other GM's in the NFL Smith and Gary would've been fired after the 2009 season. Smit has accomplished next to nothing in his 4 yrs on the job. Other than structuring contracts so that Billionaire BoBBY can mke a whole lot more $$$$ than he has already made of the backs of his fanbase and the city/county.

BTW, what were Smiths qualifications when he was hired for the GM position? FOG, (Friend of Gary) or he works cheap would be the only reasons I can think of. Maybe someone can give me better reasons why Billionaire BoBBY would hire a novice HC and the next yr hire a rookie GM to run the on field operations of his organization. No team in NFL history has 2 newbies running a team.

Other than Billionaire BoBBY, this is the root cause of the Texans not being able to put a winning product on the field. IMHO

gary
06-22-2011, 10:30 AM
GP, I just want to be clear that I am not just believing Ahman or Rick but my position might have gotten lost through this thread which is opinions are out there. While I have not heard from Rick Smith but I am definitely willing to do so. But, why just dismiss one side or the other without ever being there or hearing both sides or some independent source of information who might have been there that's all I'm saying.

steelbtexan
06-22-2011, 10:45 AM
I see Rick Smith as the "last man standing" if we're talking about McNair getting rid of guys. I think he's tied pretty closely to Bob and Cal.

Rick is BoB's yes man and he's helped make Bob alot of $$$$ over the last 4 yrs in the way he structure contracts. BoBBY doesn't fire people who help him make $$$$.

But this tean will never win a SB with Rick Smith as its GM. Both he and Gary are in way over their heads. Which makes since since he and Gary are friends.

Gary needs to watch his back though. Because if the Texans start out slowly and it looks like Garys going to be fired Smith will stab him in the back to save his own hide. This process has already started at the end of last yr. Rick started distancing himself from Gary and you could see Smiths nose firmly planted up Billionaire BoBBy's butt.

Double Barrel
06-22-2011, 11:25 AM
Once again, give me ONE (uno, ein, etc) example of a FA that chose not to come to Houston because of Rick Smith.

FAs never reveal why they did not sign with any particular team. I do not expect current players to air their dirty laundry when they never know what their future holds. So many teams change FO personnel that most of these guys understand the game of not burning bridges.

I can't say that Smith is the problem, but it is clear that he is part of the problem with this perpetual mediocre franchise.

disaacks3
06-22-2011, 11:54 AM
FAs never reveal why they did not sign with any particular team. I do not expect current players to air their dirty laundry when they never know what their future holds. So many teams change FO personnel that most of these guys understand the game of not burning bridges.

I can't say that Smith is the problem, but it is clear that he is part of the problem with this perpetual mediocre franchise. So, in the future we may find out....if we wait for one of the guys we made a FA offer to actually retire? :)

Smith is definitely an issue, but I'm basing that on (lack of) successful players, not these ego-bruise incidents.

GP
06-22-2011, 11:57 AM
I see Rick Smith as the "last man standing" if we're talking about McNair getting rid of guys. I think he's tied pretty closely to Bob and Cal.

Yep. I've said this for oh...about two, maybe even three years now.

Gary is expendable, especially with Wade Phillips in the house. Rick? Bob loves him some Rick.

HCs come and go. GMs run aspects of the team that make them able to weather the storm if they do things just like the big boss man wants it done. And Rick, IMO, has achieved that.

This is Gary's game to lose. Rick isn't going anywhere even if Gary is fired. For whatever measure of instability that firing Kubiak would tragically bring to McNair, I foresee McNair insatiably having the need to retain Rick Smith to prove that not all is lost on the Good Ship Lollipop.

Appearances are everything to Bob McNair. He was so proud of an overtime loss to the Ravens because some owners patted his back and told him his widdle fwanchise was all gwown up and big now! He's not going to fire both guys at the same time...he'll keep Rick around as long as Rick makes the numbers look right.

steelbtexan
06-22-2011, 12:21 PM
Yep. I've said this for oh...about two, maybe even three years now.

Gary is expendable, especially with Wade Phillips in the house. Rick? Bob loves him some Rick.

HCs come and go. GMs run aspects of the team that make them able to weather the storm if they do things just like the big boss man wants it done. And Rick, IMO, has achieved that.

This is Gary's game to lose. Rick isn't going anywhere even if Gary is fired. For whatever measure of instability that firing Kubiak would tragically bring to McNair, I foresee McNair insatiably having the need to retain Rick Smith to prove that not all is lost on the Good Ship Lollipop.

Appearances are everything to Bob McNair. He was so proud of an overtime loss to the Ravens because some owners patted his back and told him his widdle fwanchise was all gwown up and big now! He's not going to fire both guys at the same time...he'll keep Rick around as long as Rick makes the numbers look right.

Unless he hires a Cowher/Gruden/Parcells type. They may insist that they bring in their own talent evaluators. Then BOB would probably make up a title and keep Smith on boarrd as a defacto GM.

Rick Smith isn't going anywhere and the Texans wont be winning a SB anytime soon. He's in over his head.

Porky
06-22-2011, 12:21 PM
At one time, I was a Smith supporter. That started changing in 2009, and completely changed last year. Whose decision was the baby brigade in the secondary. TERRIBLE decision. That alone should have warranted a firing, but I'm sure McIdiot just fired up the campfire and they all held hands and sang kumbaya.

I will say this. Bob McNair as an owner makes Rick Smith look like Vince Lombardi as a GM.

My point is that I feel like the GM is interchangable to some degree because the real root of the problem is ownership. That's the elephant in the room. It's like changing the tires on a car bought at a junkyard and expecting it to run in the Indy 500. The problem is way more fundamental than this GM.

steelbtexan
06-22-2011, 12:23 PM
At one time, I was a Smith supporter. That started changing in 2009, and completely changed last year. Whose decision was the baby brigade in the secondary. TERRIBLE decision. That alone should have warranted a firing, but I'm sure McIdiot just fired up the campfire and they all held hands and sang kumbaya.

I will say this. Bob McNair as an owner makes Rick Smith look like Vince Lombardi as a GM.

My point is that I feel like the GM is interchangable to some degree because the real root of the problem is ownership. That's the elephant in the room. It's like changing the tires on a car bought at a junkyard and expecting it to run in the Indy 500. The problem is way more fundamental than this GM.

This organization is almost Oileresque.

HJam72
06-22-2011, 12:28 PM
Not saying that he hasn't, but somebody give me one example of Rick Smith actually bringing a good to great player here....that is not attributable to Gary Kubiak building his offense. I don't want to hear about Kube's draft picks and Kube's choosing a UDFA like Foster. I want to hear who Smith himself has brought to the team that made a difference. I know that he brought in some decent FA some odd years back that played decent and filled a major hole, but I don't remember who or even what position they played. Other than that, it doesn't seem to me that Smith does a whole lot other than tick veteran players off and ride his subordinate's (Kubiak) coattail.

Maybe I'm wrong. So who has he brought in (from what we know)?

Cushing? Unproven?

Mario was the old GM's pick.

Ryans was also before Smith.

Connor Barwin? (Who IS unproven.)

Brown? Leach? Kubiak's picks?

What does Smith actually accomplish for this organization?

All I know is that he got his job in the first place because Kubiak was hired as our HC. That much is obvious...

gary
06-22-2011, 12:42 PM
I used wonder why Gary and Rick don't work well together they are newbies who tend to be on the soft side and both lack the experience and the intangibles which are needed in or to co exist in the NFL. Rick Smith might have worked with a hard nosed coach like a Bill Cowher or a Jon Gruden type but Smithiak just does not gel well together and more than likely never will.

gary
06-22-2011, 12:50 PM
Not saying that he hasn't, but somebody give me one example of Rick Smith actually bringing a good to great player here....that is not attributable to Gary Kubiak building his offense. I don't want to hear about Kube's draft picks and Kube's choosing a UDFA like Foster. I want to hear who Smith himself has brought to the team that made a difference. I know that he brought in some decent FA some odd years back that played decent and filled a major hole, but I don't remember who or even what position they played. Other than that, it doesn't seem to me that Smith does a whole lot other than tick veteran players off and ride his subordinate's (Kubiak) coattail.

Maybe I'm wrong. So who has he brought in (from what we know)?

Cushing? Unproven?

Mario was the old GM's pick.

Ryans was also before Smith.

Connor Barwin? (Who IS unproven.)

Brown? Leach? Kubiak's picks?

What does Smith actually accomplish for this organization?

All I know is that he got his job in the first place because Kubiak was hired as our HC. That much is obvious...I'll give him Wade Smith who was just meant to come here a fight for a job and ended up started on the offensive line. Antonio Smith has also been a solid free agent pick up too IMO.

Second Honeymoon
06-22-2011, 01:27 PM
This organization is almost Oileresque.

The Houston Oilers were run far better than this current franchise is. To even compare the two is laughable. You had the Oilers trying to compete for championships. They failed to have much postseason success but they were always looking at ways of improving the team and did a lot to try and bring a winner here. Just a cursed franchise, but at least they tried and had some success and good times.

The Texans are a running joke around the league and have done nothing to distinguish themselves. The sad thing is that teams that were bad like the Texans a few years back (Rams, Lions, and Bucs) all look to be on the upswing and have assembled some good talent and coaching, while we stay on the right path with these losers in charge right now.

The problem is Smithiak but that is just a symptom of us having Bob McNair as an owner. He just doesn't seem truly committed to putting the best product on the field. He can say that is his goal all he wants, but he hasn't shown enough. Talk is cheap, Bob.

LZ is spot on with his critique of Rick. He even sugarcoated a lot of the criticism in order to inspire some honest dialogue about Rick's performance, rather than make it a flame war. Rick has been an ahole. Rick hasn't drafted well. Rick hasn't recruited FAs well. Rick (and Gary) took 6 years to bring in a decent defensive co-ordinator and probably only agreed after a gun was put to their head. Rick and Gary are both employed for one reason. It's not those 6 wins last year. It's Arian Foster. He made them look really smart last year and that has got to be the only thing that saved their jobs.

I like Brandon Harris and JJ Watt, but to think they are going to come in and make a serious impact is wishful thinking. They could start to factor in later in the season but by then will we be 4-7 again? I am sick of meaningless football in December and especially sick of meaningless wins at the end of the season to help perpetuate this suckitude we are all being forced to live through as Texans fans.

It's on you, Rickiak. If you fail to do anything in FA worth a crap, then no amount of excuses will belay the fact that you are an awful excuse for a GM. Just keep lapdogging up to McNair and sitting with the Bushes in yet ANOTHER big loss. Nothing new. I hope the Texans win but when that pipedream inevitably comes crashing down around me, I want Smithiak gone, once and for all and immediately after Week17. It should have happened this year, but we just have to crappy an owner for something smart and obvious to happen.

ugh,

@DougVanHorne (twitter)