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awtysst
05-09-2011, 11:57 AM
Based on reading John McClain's interview with Phillips, I would not be surprised seeing Kareem Jackson getting moved to Safety. Here is why.

Wade has talked about Jackson's may problem being one of speed. Once he gets beat, he can't really recover. Tackling he is fine, mirroring receivers is fine. Other flaws can be smoothed out with coaching, but speed cannot be taught. Jackson has average speed.

Now, consider who the Texans drafted this year at CB. Brandon Harris and Rashad Carmichael who are both praised for their closing speed, ability to stay with wide receivers down the field, and being able to play the ball in the air (either knock it away or INT).

I may be completely wrong, but I have a feeling Wade sees Jackson as a better Safety than CB. As a Safety he would not get exposed in terms of his speed. He would be asked to rely on tackling and letting plays develop in front of him and then reacting as opposed to running down the field behind the receiver.

Knowing this, the picks of Harrison and Carmichael make a lot more sense. We may be seeing the Texans trying to sign a veteran CBs and retaining Allen. Harrison would be the Nickel CB and Carmichael the Dime. Jackson would then compete with Quinn, Nolan, and Keo for a safety spot.

eriadoc
05-09-2011, 12:07 PM
... Which means that Smithiak totally ****ed up last year, not that we didn't already know that.

Hardcore Texan
05-09-2011, 12:08 PM
I have had the same thought but with Quinn staying at CB and not competing with KJ for the FS spot.

BigBull17
05-09-2011, 12:10 PM
Yeah, I think KJ is way too slow for CB. That's why I wanted McCourty so bad. Good job slap nuts.

thunderkyss
05-09-2011, 12:21 PM
I think he can still turn out to be a fine corner.

Speed isn't everything & there are ways to account for it.

BigBull17
05-09-2011, 12:22 PM
I think he can still turn out to be a fine corner.

Speed isn't everything & there are ways to account for it.

Speed isn't everything, but you can't be super slow. See also Petey Faggins.

barrett
05-09-2011, 12:23 PM
Sure makes me wish we could have an offseason! If camp get's shortened I'm going to be devastated. This could be / would've been one of the most exciting off seasons in Texans history.

76Texan
05-09-2011, 12:25 PM
My sentiment has always been that Jackson can play safety or nickel well.
When I spent time on all the games, he's the best tackler on the team, whether in close quarter or in open space.)
He also did well when asked to drop into Cover 3 in which he's just like a safety.

However, when you consider his speed (4.48) vs Quin (4.50), Harris (4.53), and Carmichael (4.56), I don't see how you're gonna solve the speed problem with the other guys.

Don't forget that Asomugha's speed out of college was just 4.45, which is only a hair faster.

4.48 isn't bad.
You just play the technique and adapt a scheme to make use of the personnel you have.
If you're that concerned with speed, you can have Allen run with the fastest guy.

(Note that McCourty also ran a 4.48)

wolf123
05-09-2011, 12:28 PM
That would probably make a pretty darn good safety combo, but we'd have to go out and sign two starting CB's. Highly doubtful we'd spend that kind of money.

Jackson struggled at press and recovery downfield.

wolf123
05-09-2011, 12:29 PM
My sentiment has always been that Jackson can play safety or nickel well.
When I spent time on all the games, he's the best tackler on the team, whether in close quarter or in open space.)
He also did well when asked to drop into Cover 3 in which he's just like a safety.

However, when you consider his speed (4.48) vs Quin (4.50), Harris (4.53), and Carmichael (4.56), I don't see how you're gonna solve the speed problem with the other guys.

Don't forget that Asomugha's speed out of college was just 4.45, which is only a hair faster.

4.48 isn't bad.
You just play the technique and adapt a scheme to make use of the personnel you have.
If you're that concerned with speed, you can have Allen run with the fastest guy.

(Note that McCourty also ran a 4.48)

Jackson's timed speed is much faster then his playing speed. And Asomugha has perfect technique and is tall and long.

nero THE zero
05-09-2011, 12:39 PM
I wondered the same thing when I read the article. But, it could also mean that they just like him more in zone where he doesn't have run downfield with a receiver.

I think he can be a good player if he is schemed right, but hopefully whoever was responsible for that pick already lost their job.

76Texan
05-09-2011, 12:42 PM
Jackson's timed speed is much faster then his playing speed. And Asomugha has perfect technique and is tall and long.

1. Obviously, I was not trying to compare them. Jackson was only a rookie!

2. I don't know how we can ascertain that Jackson's playing speed is not what it's supposed to be.
I've brought up an example before: Jackson made up almost 3 yards on R. Williams (who has 4.37 speed).

In many other instances he played the trail technique and stayed behind the receiver.

The fact remains that he does not have top speed, so again you can always have Allen run with the fastest guy (and you'll find out that speed doesn't make any difference.)

b0ng
05-09-2011, 12:49 PM
Sure makes me wish we could have an offseason! If camp get's shortened I'm going to be devastated. This could be / would've been one of the most exciting off seasons in Texans history.

It's pretty much the most exciting time for the Texans. Offseason up until about week 6 or so.

badboy
05-09-2011, 12:50 PM
WHen I raced 1 BADBOY (120mph American Offshore CAT) I had to anticipate how the other boat would use his speed. Most slower boats (up to 100mph) are rigged for quick hole shots. Get out of water quick onto plane and have a shot at holding the other boat off for a win. Those 100mph and up are usually set for long distance speed. BADBOY was set to do both and a win usually against a comparable boat (wide reciever) was up to the driver (me).

KJ was trained in Alabama to be the hole shot type corner. He was to explode out and pop the WR off balance and then remain with him until end of the play. This worked ok in college but not so well in NFL & I put that on coaches. Too often when Jackson tried to bump a WR he either missed or was pushed off balance. He then went through a psychological second or two of blasting himself before his body went into catch up mode. My observations of him was he definitely has "make up speed" and most times was able to get back to WR just not quite in time. He may or may not be able to break his years long training to bump the WR. His career guarding the edge is at stake. I do not see him moving to FS this season barring injury to other safeties.

beerlover
05-09-2011, 12:53 PM
Yeah, I think KJ is way too slow for CB. That's why I wanted McCourty so bad. Good job slap nuts.

somehow we all need to get over this, "wanted McCourty so bad" when it comes to KJ. McCourty is property of the New England Patriots & Kareem Jackson is property of the Houston Texans. What is done is done, lets move on now with Kareem & give him a chance to improve :jogger:

badboy
05-09-2011, 12:55 PM
1. Obviously, I was not trying to compare them. Jackson was only a rookie!

2. I don't know how we can ascertain that Jackson's playing speed is not what it's supposed to be.
I've brought up an example before: Jackson made up almost 3 yards on R. Williams (who has 4.37 speed).
In many other instances he played the trail technique and stayed behind the receiver.

The fact remains that he does not have top speed, so again you can always have Allen run with the fastest guy (and you'll find out that speed doesn't make any difference.)Bolded is exactly what I am talking about. KJ does have the speed to run with most WR if allowed to "cover" not "bump & run".

b0ng
05-09-2011, 01:02 PM
KJ's bad play seems to be way more mental. I know good CB's slip and fall occasionally but he did it quite a bit, as well as getting faked and biting on double moves. If he has the work ethic and the drive to succeed I think he has the physical talents needed to be a starter and not be a total liability.

I really don't forsee a move to safety, especially with Kubiak actually dropping the hint about Quin possibly moving to the safety spot. Quin has the size to do it where as KJ would be on the smallish side even for an FS. Free agency could totally give your idea merit though.

wolf123
05-09-2011, 01:14 PM
1. Obviously, I was not trying to compare them. Jackson was only a rookie!

2. I don't know how we can ascertain that Jackson's playing speed is not what it's supposed to be.
I've brought up an example before: Jackson made up almost 3 yards on R. Williams (who has 4.37 speed).

In many other instances he played the trail technique and stayed behind the receiver.

The fact remains that he does not have top speed, so again you can always have Allen run with the fastest guy (and you'll find out that speed doesn't make any difference.)

Roy Williams does not have 4.37 speed at all anymore

Corrosion
05-09-2011, 01:26 PM
Speed isn't everything, but you can't be super slow. See also Petey Faggins.

Faggins was fast enough and could mirror recievers - His problem was not being able to turn around and make a play on the damn ball ....:texanbill:

b0ng
05-09-2011, 01:28 PM
Faggins was fast enough and could mirror recievers - His problem was not being able to turn around and make a play on the damn ball ....:texanbill:

You sure you aren't thinking of Jacques Reeves? I remember Faggins being caught out of position a lot as well as getting burned deep.

Hervoyel
05-09-2011, 01:38 PM
I think he can still turn out to be a fine corner.

Speed isn't everything & there are ways to account for it.

You know, when you're talking about a first round pick I don't think you should ever have to spin it like that. If you take somebody in the first round you should never be saying "____________ isn't everything & there are ways to account for it" after only a year.

You might as well just say "Well, we screwed that one up. What's next?"

Texan4Ever
05-09-2011, 01:42 PM
I on't care what position he plays so long as he gets onto the field and contributes. This team can't afford any more draft busts, every player we draft needs to contribute in some capacity.

From what I have seen, Brandon Harris is a good shutdown corner who just needs to learn how to grab potential INTs instead of swating them away. I see him as a starter towards the end of the season if not, before.

Wolf6151
05-09-2011, 02:20 PM
I think he can still turn out to be a fine corner.

Speed isn't everything & there are ways to account for it.

I agree holeheartedly. You don't have to be a speed demon to be a good CB. Jackson was thrown into an impossible situation last year by Kubiak.

Guys who think Jackson is a bust remember that Aso and Revis weren't great their rookie years either and they were on teams with a better overall defense than the Texans last year. It took until their 3rd year in the league before they developed into the players they've become. KJ will be fine. CB is the 2nd hardest position to transition from college behind QB.

76Texan
05-09-2011, 02:42 PM
I agree holeheartedly. You don't have to be a speed demon to be a good CB. Jackson was thrown into an impossible situation last year by Kubiak.

Guys who think Jackson is a bust remember that Aso and Revis weren't great their rookie years either and they were on teams with a better overall defense than the Texans last year. It took until their 3rd year in the league before they developed into the players they've become. KJ will be fine. CB is the 2nd hardest position to transition from college behind QB.

Aso was drafted in 2003.
He started one game as a rookie and 7 games n his second year.

"Nnamdi Asomugha has become one of the best man-to-man coverage cornerbacks in the NFL. But it wasn’t an easy journey for the unassuming talent, who did not emerge as a contributor until 2005. Stuck behind the likes of Phillip Buchanon and Charles Woodson early in his career, Asomugha took advantage of his opportunities when he became a full-time starter in ‘05...

He was quickly earning the reputation of being a tough defender who utilized his size and speed to shut down whoever he matched up against. But where were the interceptions?

Entering the ’06 campaign, Asomugha had no career picks..."

Stuck behind Phillip Buchanon? :scarygirl:

Aso's only start in his rookie year was at safety!

76Texan
05-09-2011, 03:00 PM
Bolded is exactly what I am talking about. KJ does have the speed to run with most WR if allowed to "cover" not "bump & run".

Agree for his rookie year as I have noted that you don't want a smaller DB to hand-fight with bigger receivers.
If you really want your DB to play bump and run, you might want a bigger DB.
Or you let him (Jackson) play the technique against receivers his size or slightly bigger to start out (whether outside or in the slot) so he can improve his technique.

Let's not forget Jackson was only a Junior.

Also, last year, when I did the review on Jackson's college days, I mentioned that he wasn't tested against the wicked double move and that sort of things against quality receivers (and he also needs to work on defending the back shoulder fade.)
Well, actually, all the CBs out of college need to improve in those areas anyway!

76Texan
05-09-2011, 03:04 PM
Roy Williams does not have 4.37 speed at all anymore

You could be right but how do we know for sure what speed he has now?

badboy
05-09-2011, 03:07 PM
It would be sweet if corner suddenly became a strength as RB did. Just to add info to conversation, Harris has a 34 inch vertical at 5'91/2 inches. He should be able to leap with some of the heavier wide receivers. I can't wait to see him go against Andre Johnson. AJ will eat his lunch but I want Brandon to go VERTICAL.

76Texan
05-09-2011, 03:11 PM
Yeah, I think KJ is way too slow for CB. That's why I wanted McCourty so bad. Good job slap nuts.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2010/profiles/devin-mccourty?id=494287#tabs:tab-overview

McCourty is an average sized cornerback with good athleticism. He runs well but doesnít have premier speed out on and island. McCourty is a tough, competitive player that understands angles and route progressions. He is an active secondary defender that gets his hands on lots of balls but doesnít always make the interception. McCourty has great hips, agility and balance to turn and stay in the receiverís hip pocket. He does get overpowered at times versus larger receivers in block protection and on jump ball situations but he appears to know his limitations and is a defender. McCourty is a good football player that will likely contribute quickly at nickel back and special teams (returns as well as coverage units) in his rookie season.

McCourty has somewhat of a slight build and can be taken advantage of by taller, more physical receivers. Must improve his block protection in order to be more productive in run support. Only possesses average ball skills, will drop some catchable balls and wonít make many circus plays.

76Texan
05-09-2011, 03:15 PM
It would be sweet if corner suddenly became a strength as RB did. Just to add info to conversation, Harris has a 34 inch vertical at 5'91/2 inches. He should be able to leap with some of the heavier wide receivers. I can't wait to see him go against Andre Johnson. AJ will eat his lunch but I want Brandon to go VERTICAL.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=69167&draftyear=2010&genpos=CB

Jackson had a vertical of 37.5 at the combine.
He was timed as low as 4.34 in the 40

badboy
05-09-2011, 03:21 PM
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=69167&draftyear=2010&genpos=CB

Jackson had a vertical of 37.5 at the combine.
He was timed as low as 4.34 in the 40

Yep but rarely was Jackson in step with WR to go vert. That will change this season. Maybe we will look back towards the end of season and say we did not need a free agent corner. Look what Harris and Jackson did with better coaches. Whoops, spilled my drink. WHat gets grape Koolaide out of a shirt? :gun:

76Texan
05-09-2011, 03:27 PM
Yep but rarely was Jackson in step with WR to go vert. That will change this season. Maybe we will look back towards the end of season and say we did not need a free agent corner. Look what Harris and Jackson did with better coaches. Whoops, spilled my drink. WHat gets grape Koolaide out of a shirt? :gun:

If Wade continues with his pattern-matching scheme, we should find Jackson and Allen (or whoever else) turn and run immediately with the outside vertical threat more.

The CB will have a 3-7 yard cushion to begin with and free of run-support concern in those instances. That will allow the CB to concentrate more on defending the pass.

badboy
05-09-2011, 03:30 PM
If Wade continues with his pattern-matching scheme, we should find Jackson and Allen (or whoever else) turn and run immediately with the outside vertical threat more.

The CB will have a 3-7 yard cushion to begin with and free of run-support concern in those instances. That will allow the CB to concentrate more on defending the pass.

Man our brains are in parallel thinking! Allen had 5 INTs I think between both teams last season. Do you know how many were at corner and how many at safety?

76Texan
05-09-2011, 03:44 PM
Man our brains are in parallel thinking! Allen had 5 INTs I think between both teams last season. Do you know how many were at corner and how many at safety?

Allen played CB solely this past year for both teams (He came into the ofice of the Dolphins' HC to ask for another chance at CB.)

His downfall was when he seems to be in good position deep on the long ball and then lost it all with poor technique.

IMO, he's also a candidate to move to safety.
Now, how much he wants to get paid is another matter!

Porky
05-09-2011, 03:47 PM
I would rather have Kareem Abdul Jabbar playing corner instead of this Kareem. This Kareem couldn't cover a blanket or catch a cold.

Move him to safety. Better yet, I hear water boy has an opening. :texanbill:

Just another example of how team Smithiak cannot evualate defensive personell worth a shit. Another first rd wasted pick on defense. That's the one good thing with the Wade hiring. I don't like Wade at all as a HC, but as a DC he is one of the better ones and he knows how to draft for his defenses.

bah007
05-09-2011, 03:58 PM
Rarely does a guy's timed speed in shorts on a fast surface accurately portray how fast he can run in full pads while tracking a moving object in the air.

Trying to say that there is a difference between a 4.37 and a 4.40 is ridiculous in my opinion. What if the 4.37 guy can't turn his hips as fast? Sure he can run faster in a straight line but he won't be doing any better as a CB.

Having played CB I can tell you that far more goes into it than how fast you can run and how high you can jump.

I'm not saying that speed doesn't matter, because it does. What I am saying is that a guy's speed on a track has very little to do with his ability to play football.

76Texan
05-09-2011, 04:52 PM
Rarely does a guy's timed speed in shorts on a fast surface accurately portray how fast he can run in full pads while tracking a moving object in the air.

Trying to say that there is a difference between a 4.37 and a 4.40 is ridiculous in my opinion. What if the 4.37 guy can't turn his hips as fast? Sure he can run faster in a straight line but he won't be doing any better as a CB.

Having played CB I can tell you that far more goes into it than how fast you can run and how high you can jump.

I'm not saying that speed doesn't matter, because it does. What I am saying is that a guy's speed on a track has very little to do with his ability to play football.

I hope that people take in your words.
There's no avoiding "haters" though! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

awtysst
05-09-2011, 05:00 PM
That would probably make a pretty darn good safety combo, but we'd have to go out and sign two starting CB's. Highly doubtful we'd spend that kind of money.

Jackson struggled at press and recovery downfield.

I thought Jason Allen played decently enough last year. Good enough to resign. Sign Ike Taylor, put Allen as CB2, Harrison at Nickle, Carmichael at Dime and you have a very interesting CB corp.

Corrosion
05-09-2011, 06:02 PM
You sure you aren't thinking of Jacques Reeves? I remember Faggins being caught out of position a lot as well as getting burned deep.

Nope - I defended Petey numerous times here on TT .... His biggest downfall was his inability to get his head around and or make a play on the ball , He would have good position and still get beat.


I'd take Petey over what we had opposite Quin last season .... thats for damn sure.

Lucky
05-09-2011, 06:37 PM
Based on reading John McClain's interview with Phillips, I would not be surprised seeing Kareem Jackson getting moved to Safety. Here is why.
Here is why not. Jackson is a poor tackler, doesn't play the ball well, and has no instincts for the position.

Otherwise, he's a natural.


When I spent time on all the games, he's the best tackler on the team, whether in close quarter or in open space.

Unbelievable.


In many other instances he played the trail technique and stayed behind the receiver.
Kareem is one of the best in the league at staying behind the receiver.


Guys who think Jackson is a bust remember that Aso and Revis weren't great their rookie years either.
For every Revis or Asomugha, I can give you a list a mile long of 1st round corners who didn't cut it.

Allen played CB solely this past year for both teams (He came into the ofice of the Dolphins' HC to ask for another chance at CB.)

IMO, he's also a candidate to move to safety.
Now, how much he wants to get paid is another matter!
Allen is already under contract for 2011 per his initial 6 year rookie contract. Rick Smith confirmed that in a radio interview on 1560.

It's clear to me that Phillips is under no obligation to play Jackson. He's not Wade's pick. While I see him in no danger of being cut (Smith won't give Phillips that much leeway), Jackson could be at the end of the bench (ala Molden) if he doesn't vastly improve.

drs23
05-09-2011, 07:08 PM
Jackson could be at the end of the bench (ala Molden) if he doesn't vastly improve.

Lucky,

Do you even see Molden on the roster this season? I don't think he makes the cut.

Lucky
05-09-2011, 07:16 PM
Lucky,

Do you even see Molden on the roster this season? I don't think he makes the cut.
No, I mean as Molden was at the end of the bench in years past. Jackson as the new Molden, if you will.

drs23
05-09-2011, 07:33 PM
Gotcha. Kinda running on a slow bell today.

nytexan
05-09-2011, 09:40 PM
No, I mean as Molden was at the end of the bench in years past. Jackson as the new Molden, if you will.

Actually this begs the question, do the Texans play the young kids and hope they develop into something or do they go the free agent route and sit all the kids on the bench??? I'm not sure what the long term answer is, I know I'm so sick of watching this team find new ways to lose, I'm ready for some vets to come in.

Having said that, if the kids do have potential, do we let them learn on the fly and let them play?? This actually is a pretty young defense as a whole still and it'll be interesting to see what they decide to do. I'd feel better if OTA's were going on so they can see first hand how far along the kids are and make a decision from there but obviously that isn't going to happen or so it seems. This would be a better situation if Kubiak and/or Smith weren't on the hot seat so Philips can make an enlightened decision but if they decide to bring in a couple of low key vets, that tells me they're going to play the kids especially if they think they have no chance whatsoever to make a super bowl run in the next 2 years.

76Texan
05-09-2011, 10:19 PM
Actually this begs the question, do the Texans play the young kids and hope they develop into something or do they go the free agent route and sit all the kids on the bench??? I'm not sure what the long term answer is, I know I'm so sick of watching this team find new ways to lose, I'm ready for some vets to come in.

Having said that, if the kids do have potential, do we let them learn on the fly and let them play?? This actually is a pretty young defense as a whole still and it'll be interesting to see what they decide to do. I'd feel better if OTA's were going on so they can see first hand how far along the kids are and make a decision from there but obviously that isn't going to happen or so it seems. This would be a better situation if Kubiak and/or Smith weren't on the hot seat so Philips can make an enlightened decision but if they decide to bring in a couple of low key vets, that tells me they're going to play the kids especially if they think they have no chance whatsoever to make a super bowl run in the next 2 years.

A few people like Lucky think that I'm defending Jackson too much, but really, I do it only because there was so much harsh crticism.

First of all, before the season started, I was among those who dislike the release of Jacque Reeves (not that because he was great, but he does have experience and showed improvements in locating the ball.)

Next, I said that if they cut Reeves, it'd better be due to Molden showing something good in TC that we don't know about; ie. Moldern would better show that he's better than Reeves.

I'm the kind who has no problem with rookie riding the pine.
I even watched how some other rookie were developed.

I stated that the Browns started Haden out blitzing some, playing nickel some; and when he played CB, they were sure to give him help deep.
Haden actually started only 7 games for them.

The Pats played McCourty early like the Texans did Jackson, but his role was smaller. During the first half of the season, rarely was he asked to be on an island like Jackson. When he did, it was out of the 1/4 concept.
I had several posts already about how McCourty was babysat by the safety behind him, and/or the LB next to him, and/or the Pats would be sure to guard the passing lanes on his side.

I pulled up plays to describe those situations.
(And that's why I'd like to learn to take snapshots so I can show all those instances.)

I can prove that when McCourty was left on an island like Jackson, he got burned worse (as a proportion of the number of times they each were by themselves.)

EllisUnit
05-09-2011, 10:20 PM
76 you can hardly compare Combine Times/practice to what happens in games. He could run a straight 4.1 but if he isnt agile our dont have good feet he will get burned on every play, and i think thats the case with jackson. His practice/40 speed is descent. but his game time speed sucks. And dont talk about how FAST jackson is. i remeber a INT in pre season where he got easily ran down by a 4.6 running back in dallas to stop a TD.

Big Lou
05-09-2011, 10:27 PM
If he were to make the move he'd need to put 5-10 lbs on to take a little more abuse.

silvrhand
05-09-2011, 11:16 PM
That's just what we need to do after a year where he took a bunch of heat for bad safety play is to make him play a position he has never played before. Hell why don't we move Cushing to FS while we are at it, he's fast enough right?.

/sigh enough with experimenting.. just get players that can play their position without having to retrain on the job. There have been very *FEW* players in the history of the NFL to be great at more than on position..

The only one off the top of my head that moved to corner -> SS successfully was Ronnie Lott.

76Texan
05-09-2011, 11:19 PM
76 you can hardly compare Combine Times/practice to what happens in games. He could run a straight 4.1 but if he isnt agile our dont have good feet he will get burned on every play, and i think thats the case with jackson. His practice/40 speed is descent. but his game time speed sucks. And dont talk about how FAST jackson is. i remeber a INT in pre season where he got easily ran down by a 4.6 running back in dallas to stop a TD.

EU, actually I don't mind at all when folks like Lucky and yourself or anybody else get passionate about a certain point of view.

So here goes:

(1.)
You probably already guess that I do have game tape of that PS win over the Cowboys.

(2.)
3-14-HOU 17 (6:47) (Shotgun) 9-T.Romo pass short left intended for 82-J.Witten INTERCEPTED by 25-K.Jackson (31-B.Pollard) at HST 4. 25-K.Jackson pushed ob at DAL 32 for 64 yards (28-F.Jones).
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010082851/2010/PRE3/cowboys@texans#tab:analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay
Hightlight might still be there!

(3.)
Felix Jones ran a 4.44 at the combine (and as low as 4.34)
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profilexnews.php?pyid=56490&draftyear=2008&genpos=RB

(4.)
Jackson ran back about 14 yds (to the Texans 1) then forward some 67 yds, plus a stop here and there along the way due to traffic.
At the least, he ran 81 yds.
Jones started at our 23, ran diagonally toward the side line and diagonally again toward Jackson. He also encounter a little stop like Jackson.
At the max, he covered a total of 60 yds.
If I spot you 20 yards and then you catch up to me, claiming victory, I would just smile and say OK, fine, you sure did!

When my young friend Gary (you may know of him on this MB) finishes teaching me how to take screen shot and upload picture to the forum, I will!

Lucky
05-09-2011, 11:53 PM
A few people like Lucky think that I'm defending Jackson too much, but really, I do it only because there was so much harsh crticism.
A few people? What about Rick Smith (http://www.1560thegame.com/media/?p=3785) (the guy who drafted Jackson)? He said that Jackson didn't perform. What about Wade Phillips (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7556174.html), who is also questioning Kareem's speed? It's not like I'm the one out on the fringe regarding the Jackson evaluation. It's "a few people like" you and...you that are saying things like Jackson is as good or better than McCourty or Jackson was the teams best CB or Jackson was the teams best tackler. The only thing I've done is counter some of your more outrageous claims.

76Texan
05-10-2011, 12:18 AM
A few people? What about Rick Smith (http://www.1560thegame.com/media/?p=3785) (the guy who drafted Jackson)? He said that Jackson didn't perform. What about Wade Phillips (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7556174.html), who is also questioning Kareem's speed? It's not like I'm the one out on the fringe regarding the Jackson evaluation. It's "a few people like" you and...you that are saying things like Jackson is as good or better than McCourty or Jackson was the teams best CB or Jackson was the teams best tackler. The only thing I've done is counter some of your more outrageous claims.

Lucky, you contradict yourself from time to time.

At times, you would say "coach speech" or "GM speech", then you would turn around and turn "their speeches" to fit the need.

I believe I've been quite consistent.
I've never claimed Jackson to have top speed.
In fact, I was the one who raised the question pre-draft and put him as low first round, early second round even after the combine due to same concern.
(I've watched plenty of his college tapes pre-draft, thank you, I understand game speed).

Any "outrageous" claim I put up, I always try to back them up with game tape analysis (and with young Gary's help I will have screen shots to show - video clips are reserved for the future since I've admitted to be technical-challenged).

Trust me, as time permits, I will tally the scenarios around all the tackles the guys made or missed.

On the other hand, you brought up a few vids available on the net, which I had answers for.
(One of them I have not gotten to is the back shoulder fade TD pass in the Giants game - because that one was on Jackson; but if you listen to the commentators, it was impossible to defend when the Qb and the receiver get on the same page. During the draft period, a cetain TE came up on the NFL network to show how nasty it was - When Gary learns me how to do these technical stuffs, I will present it to you.)
I have stated this concern as well when I presented Jackson's college game analysis just after we drafted him.

Once, you claimed that the Texans edge rushers had never seen a single snap as OLB in the 3-4.
You never backed it up.
I had to bring up some games to show that they were.

Oddly, you were fine with Brooks Reed as an OLB when he had but 4 snaps at OLB throughout his college career (plus some at the Sr. Bowl).

I wonder if you can tally all the tackles and miss-tackles for Jackson to prove your point!?!

TimeKiller
05-10-2011, 07:26 AM
Another thread about how Kareem Jackson wasn't really that bad.

Yes he was.

Until next time!!

gary
05-10-2011, 10:43 AM
It just seems like to me 76 is not ready to give up on Kareem just yet. Maybe he should have been picked later on in the draft or maybe he should not have been a full time starter as a rookie but that is not his fault. That falls on Gary and Rick. The key is he needs to improve just like everyone on the defense does including the safeties and the defensive line or he should lose his job.

steelbtexan
05-10-2011, 11:16 AM
Lucky, you contradict yourself from time to time.

At times, you would say "coach speech" or "GM speech", then you would turn around and turn "their speeches" to fit the need.

I believe I've been quite consistent.
I've never claimed Jackson to have top speed.
In fact, I was the one who raised the question pre-draft and put him as low first round, early second round even after the combine due to same concern.
(I've watched plenty of his college tapes pre-draft, thank you, I understand game speed).

Any "outrageous" claim I put up, I always try to back them up with game tape analysis (and with young Gary's help I will have screen shots to show - video clips are reserved for the future since I've admitted to be technical-challenged).

Trust me, as time permits, I will tally the scenarios around all the tackles the guys made or missed.

On the other hand, you brought up a few vids available on the net, which I had answers for.
(One of them I have not gotten to is the back shoulder fade TD pass in the Giants game - because that one was on Jackson; but if you listen to the commentators, it was impossible to defend when the Qb and the receiver get on the same page. During the draft period, a cetain TE came up on the NFL network to show how nasty it was - When Gary learns me how to do these technical stuffs, I will present it to you.)
I have stated this concern as well when I presented Jackson's college game analysis just after we drafted him.

Once, you claimed that the Texans edge rushers had never seen a single snap as OLB in the 3-4.
You never backed it up.
I had to bring up some games to show that they were.

Oddly, you were fine with Brooks Reed as an OLB when he had but 4 snaps at OLB throughout his college career (plus some at the Sr. Bowl).

I wonder if you can tally all the tackles and miss-tackles for Jackson to prove your point!?!

Jackson was bad last yr. But Gary put him in a no win situation. I believe when it's all said and done Jackson will be a serviceable no.2 CB.

There's something about moving the 2 starting CB's to S that seems like a disaster waiting to happen. Doing this would be very Gary like though.

If Phillips moves Jackson/Quin to S I could get on board with the move. I trust Phillips knows what he's doing. In Phillips defense the S have to be able to cover and moving Quin and Jackson to S would accomplish this. But I'm not sure about Quin/Jacksons tackling abilities as the last line of defense.

A secondary of Taylor, Allen, Harris, Carmicheal at CB and Jackson, Quin, and Nolan at S would be much better in coverage and probably help in creating turnovers. Atleast they would be better than last yrs secondary.

b0ng
05-10-2011, 11:35 AM
When my young friend Gary (you may know of him on this MB) finishes teaching me how to take screen shot and upload picture to the forum, I will!

Find something you want to take a picture of. Press the "Print Screen" key on your keyboard (Should be up high on the keyboard, same row as your F1 - F12 keys). If you are using windows open up mspaint, easiest way to do that is press Start -> Run -> Type "mspaint.exe". Should open up a basic art program that you can immediately press "Ctrl + v" to paste the picture into the paint program. Save as "Kareem Jackson Fell Down.jpg" because you are almost assuredly taking a picture of Kareem Jackson falling down.

Hope this helps!

gary
05-10-2011, 11:38 AM
If one safety and vet CB is signed then that would great.

gary
05-10-2011, 11:42 AM
Find something you want to take a picture of. Press the "Print Screen" key on your keyboard (Should be up high on the keyboard, same row as your F1 - F12 keys). If you are using windows open up mspaint, easiest way to do that is press Start -> Run -> Type "mspaint.exe". Should open up a basic art program that you can immediately press "Ctrl + v" to paste the picture into the paint program. Save as "Kareem Jackson Fell Down.jpg" because you are almost assuredly taking a picture of Kareem Jackson falling down.

Hope this helps!I am already helping him via a PM just an FYI.

b0ng
05-10-2011, 11:45 AM
I am already helping him via a PM just an FYI.

Hopefully it helps others as well :)

gary
05-10-2011, 11:51 AM
Hopefully it helps others as well :)they have to upload the photo to a storage website like www.photobucket.com before posting it here on the forum so don't forget that step.

beerlover
05-10-2011, 12:10 PM
News Flash: Texans secondary bad from day one of this franchise. Texans have tried everything, from franchising their best corner (Dunta) overpaying free agents (Reeves) to over-value drafting 1st rd talent (Jackson). Now reality has set in they went about it intelligently & correctly identified starting caliber talent 2nd/3rd days on the 2011 draft (Harris, Carmichael).

Despite all the negativity I read concerning Jackson, some of it well deserved, its too early to give up on such a well rounded, athletic press corner, which is what he is. Texans will need to shade over him & do a better job covering up his long speed & deep routes teams will attack him with. Will also help to actually have a pass rush to prevent these deep routes from occurring in the first place.

The Texans have enough talent to get by for the first time & if they can add a quality veteran CB in free agency, these young guys will not be exposed to breakdowns in coverage like last season. I'll also predict one of these young corners will rise to the top & become that shutdown CB Texans have coveted, Kareem will be in that mix, but now he's got company in Brandon Harris & the Roc Carmichael. Patience required.

barrett
05-10-2011, 12:11 PM
I think much of the analysis of the secondary has to be taken with a grain of salt. I've tried to evaluate the talent from last year and apply it to next season but it's nearly impossible. When we watched this team last season there were times that you couldn't figure out what the hell anyone was doing. The defense was just so poorly designed. The position coaching in the secondary alone was just awful.

I don't know how you can look at guys like Quin, Pollard or McCain who all clearly regressed and not think there's more to it than their abilities.

Jackson's first season is almost a wash to me. You almost have to just start over with the rookies. I just don't think he got a fair shake. Is he any good? I don't know. I don't think we can know.

It was so apparent to me that guys were playing slow and confused. I just don't see how the entire unit got worse by themselves. I think it was just a massive failure from the staff as a whole.

thunderkyss
05-10-2011, 02:37 PM
It just seems like to me 76 is not ready to give up on Kareem just yet. Maybe he should have been picked later on in the draft or maybe he should not have been a full time starter as a rookie but that is not his fault.

I think it's a combination, forced into the role of full-time starter. Most rookie CBs aren't thrown into the game like that. Not even the special ones.

Then being on such a poorly coached secondary couldn't have helped,

Then not having a true mentor.

KJ is a rookie. He looked like a rookie.

Let's move on.

texanfan2002114
05-10-2011, 03:01 PM
Yeah, I think KJ is way too slow for CB. That's why I wanted McCourty so bad. Good job slap nuts.

How can you say you wanted McCourty so bad due to speed when they ran they exact 40 time at the combine.

KJ -

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/09000d5d816dcc5f/2010-Combine-workout-Kareem-Jackson

McCourty -

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/09000d5d816dd9ca/2010-Combine-workout-Devin-McCourty

badboy
05-10-2011, 03:04 PM
Jackson was bad last yr. But Gary put him in a no win situation. I believe when it's all said and done Jackson will be a serviceable no.2 CB.

There's something about moving the 2 starting CB's to S that seems like a disaster waiting to happen. Doing this would be very Gary like though.

If Phillips moves Jackson/Quin to S I could get on board with the move. I trust Phillips knows what he's doing. In Phillips defense the S have to be able to cover and moving Quin and Jackson to S would accomplish this. But I'm not sure about Quin/Jacksons tackling abilities as the last line of defense.

A secondary of Taylor, Allen, Harris, Carmicheal at CB and Jackson, Quin, and Nolan at S would be much better in coverage and probably help in creating turnovers. Atleast they would be better than last yrs secondary.What do you do with Dominique Barber?

badboy
05-10-2011, 03:09 PM
If one safety and vet CB is signed then that would great.I'm with ya Gary, but while I'm dreaming I will request a vet QB to back up Matt, A vet NT more than 320lbs, a vet #2 WR, a vet ILB to be insurance for Demeco and.....

texanchris
05-10-2011, 03:13 PM
No way, I wouldn't trust kareem to be our last line of defense.

badboy
05-10-2011, 03:16 PM
No way, I wouldn't trust kareem to be our last line of defense.Ok but explain why. His responsibilities would be different so make your case. Keep in mind I was the most vociferous voice against him being picked on the MB. I want to know why you made that decision. Please don't take this as me calling you out.

texanchris
05-10-2011, 03:42 PM
Ok but explain why. His responsibilities would be different so make your case. Keep in mind I was the most vociferous voice against him being picked on the MB. I want to know why you made that decision. Please don't take this as me calling you out.

The Texans have enough question marks on the defensive side of the ball without trying to switch a cornerback to saftey. I dont think hes enough of a ball hawk to play free saftey or physical enough to play strong saftey. Maybe in any other offseason i wouldnt mind the change but with the uncertainty of the lockout and considering how bad he played last year and how many times he fell down i would rather have some one with experience playing saftey as our last line of defense. I would rather keep him at the position he is most comfortable with and played at in college rather than teach him a new position that i dont think hes ever played before. I still think he can become a good number 2 cornerback and there are better options that could be signed in free agency like Weddle or Huff.

badboy
05-10-2011, 03:47 PM
The Texans have enough question marks on the defensive side of the ball without trying to switch a cornerback to saftey. I dont think hes enough of a ball hawk to play free saftey or physical enough to play strong saftey. Maybe in any other offseason i wouldnt mind the change but with the uncertainty of the lockout and considering how bad he played last year and how many times he fell down i would rather have some one with experience playing saftey as our last line of defense. I would rather keep him at the position he is most comfortable with and played at in college rather than teach him a new position that i dont think hes ever played before. I still think he can become a good number 2 cornerback and there are better options that could be signed in free agency like Weddle or Huff.What are your thoughts about Wade moving 3rd year CB Quin to FS?

gary
05-10-2011, 04:42 PM
Weddle and Huff will want too much money for the liking of Bob.

TimeKiller
05-10-2011, 04:47 PM
KJ to safety...

Quin to safety...

Mario to OLB...

Cushing to ILB...

Okoye to DE...

Jesus christ, wasn't anybody playing in the right position last year?!?!

texanchris
05-10-2011, 04:58 PM
What are your thoughts about Wade moving 3rd year CB Quin to FS?

There are better options out there but if the Texans decide not to sign any safteys in free agency then i would rather have Quin back there than Jackson. Some people have been asking to move Quin to saftey since we have drafted him and i think he cant be a solid saftey in the NFL. The only problem i see with switching Quin to saftey is that he was our best cornerback last year which isnt saying much but we would plug one hole on the defense and open up another at the cornerback position.

Lucky
05-10-2011, 08:55 PM
Despite all the negativity I read concerning Jackson, some of it well deserved, its too early to give up on such a well rounded, athletic press corner, which is what he is.

I'll also predict one of these young corners will rise to the top & become that shutdown CB Texans have coveted, Kareem will be in that mix, but now he's got company in Brandon Harris & the Roc Carmichael. Patience required.
For the record, I haven't "given up" on Jackson. I just don't think he should be handed a starting job, as he was last season. With the additions through the draft, and hopefully free agency, I don't think a starting will fall into his lap. If he's one of the best CBs the Texans have, that's great. If not, his draft status should not dictate his playing time.

Wolf6151
05-10-2011, 09:18 PM
What do you do with Dominique Barber?

IMO, Barber didn't make the team 2 yrs. ago because he was any good, he made the team because of the lack of talent or depth at the position. Barber is a terrible Safety and should be buying a ticket to the game like the rest of us.

HJam72
05-10-2011, 09:29 PM
KJ to safety...

Quin to safety...

Mario to OLB...

Cushing to ILB...

Okoye to DE...

Jesus christ, wasn't anybody playing in the right position last year?!?!

Well....no... :kubepalm:

Corrosion
05-10-2011, 10:03 PM
Shit let me play the SS spot ..... 6'3" 230 and I think I can run a 40 about as fast as the typical lineman ..... but I can make good reads , take good angles and tackle with good technique.

Dont know how long I'd last tho , Im kinda over the hill .... :runaway:

CretorFrigg
05-10-2011, 10:06 PM
Shit let me play the SS spot ..... 6'3" 230 and I think I can run a 40 about as fast as the typical lineman ..... but I can make good reads , take good angles and tackle with good technique.

Dont know how long I'd last tho , Im kinda over the hill .... :runaway:

Since we're signing up, I'll take the CB spot!

Who says we're too old? Matt Turk is older than we are. :D

thunderkyss
05-10-2011, 10:09 PM
There are better options out there but if the Texans decide not to sign any safteys in free agency then i would rather have Quin back there than Jackson. Some people have been asking to move Quin to saftey since we have drafted him and i think he cant be a solid saftey in the NFL. The only problem i see with switching Quin to saftey is that he was our best cornerback last year which isnt saying much but we would plug one hole on the defense and open up another at the cornerback position.

Unless the plan is to get a veteran CB through FA or trade, or both.

If they believe they have a better than good opportunity to bring in quality players (& with a coach like Wade on the defense, I think our chances will be better than they ever have been), so what if he was our best corner back? I think he can be a solid CB in this league.. maybe a pro bowl Safety.

& just like Gary was able to cobble together an offense with UDFAs like Briesel, and Foster, guys looking for an opportunity, like Walter & Leach, third/fourth round picks like Winston & OD..... Wade can probably take a guy you (or I) wouldn't think much of & putting together a helluva team.

thunderkyss
05-10-2011, 10:11 PM
Since we're signing up, I'll take the CB spot!

Who says we're too old? Matt Turk is older than we are. :D

I can play Kasey Studdard's position, we've got the same build.

:kitten:

Wolf6151
05-11-2011, 07:32 AM
I can play Antwaun Moldens position of injured reserve, bench warming, paycheck leach.

badboy
05-11-2011, 10:18 AM
Shit let me play the SS spot ..... 6'3" 230 and I think I can run a 40 about as fast as the typical lineman ..... but I can make good reads , take good angles and tackle with good technique.

Dont know how long I'd last tho , Im kinda over the hill .... :runaway:Ok, but $4million a year is my final offer. Take it or leave it.

:spit:

badboy
05-11-2011, 10:24 AM
I can play Antwaun Moldens position of injured reserve, bench warming, paycheck leach.

I will continue my role of General Manager, hey Bob, there's this cornerback out in Oakland I want to talk with you about....

Corrosion
05-11-2011, 10:52 AM
Ok, but $4million a year is my final offer. Take it or leave it.

:spit:

Thats a done deal .... I woulda done it for half that. :texanbill: