PDA

View Full Version : Carr OR HARRINGTON


Barryfan20
04-18-2005, 05:44 AM
Hello everyone! As we approach the draft it got me to thinking about carr and harrington (both by the way will be great QB's!) The question is who either has emerged as the better talant or who will be first to become great? In my opinion both are fairly equel at this point! Last year you guys played us tough and we escaped with a victory. I believe your team like ours is very young and has the potential of exploding this thing wide open! Good Luck with in the upcoming draft and season!! GO LIONS!!

D-ReK
04-18-2005, 06:51 AM
I honestly think it's unfair to really judge either of them at this point since Carr has been playing behind an inconsistent O-Line and Harrington's weapons haven't been able to stay healthy...2005 will either be the year that he proves that he's Detroit's franchise or he proves that he should be on the sideline holding a clipboard...I think the first scenario is more likely...All Carr needs to succed is consistent pass protection...Both have similar numbers so far, but I'll give the edge to Carr, since he has shown more leadership and has made more out of a worse scenario...That may just be my biased Texan fan opinion though :) ...

texanfan2002114
04-18-2005, 06:51 AM
Hello everyone! As we approach the draft it got me to thinking about carr and harrington (both by the way will be great QB's!) The question is who either has emerged as the better talant or who will be first to become great? In my opinion both are fairly equel at this point! Last year you guys played us tough and we escaped with a victory. I believe your team like ours is very young and has the potential of exploding this thing wide open! Good Luck with in the upcoming draft and season!! GO LIONS!!

I'm sorry to say but its really not that even. I believe Carr has done WAY better with alot less. Carr took over a brand new offense that had never played together, while Harrington had an established o-line and team. Harrington was almost cut by the Lions this year and has been rumored to have confindence problems, while Carr is the Texans franchise QB. Just the way I see it.
:)

threetoedpete
04-18-2005, 07:49 AM
I honestly think it's unfair to really judge either of them at this point since Carr has been playing behind an inconsistent O-Line and Harrington's weapons haven't been able to stay healthy...2005 will either be the year that he proves that he's Detroit's franchise or he proves that he should be on the sideline holding a clipboard...I think the first scenario is more likely...All Carr needs to succed is consistent pass protection...Both have similar numbers so far, but I'll give the edge to Carr, since he has shown more leadership and has made more out of a worse scenario...That may just be my biased Texan fan opinion though :) ...

Nice post. I think that's a thread killer.

rittenhouserobz
04-18-2005, 08:05 AM
I'm sorry to say but its really not that even. I believe Carr has done WAY better with alot less. Carr took over a brand new offense that had never played together, while Harrington had an established o-line and team. Harrington was almost cut by the Lions this year and has been rumored to have confindence problems, while Carr is the Texans franchise QB. Just the way I see it.
:)

I believe that Mariucci can turn Joey around. Right now Carr has a bit more experience and confidence, because he knows the organization backs him up.

Sco-tai
04-18-2005, 11:30 AM
I don't think it's even close. Harrington is worried about his job (thought he denies caring that they brought in Garcia). Carr is more accurate...stronger arm...better decisions...and behind a WORSE O-Line. Sure, C-Rogers has been hurt, but they had a chance to take AJ, and didn't.

BuffSoldier
04-18-2005, 12:11 PM
Carr has better physical tools, plain and simple. I think Harrington has way better weapons in Rogers(if he can stay healthy) Williams and Jones, but he still needs to produce, which he hasnt been doing.

wiley2002
04-18-2005, 12:15 PM
I can't really say one is better than the other because both have their strengths and weaknesses. They're both young and have taken some good hits. One of them suffered an irregular heartbeat and was out for a while. The other has suffered an ankle injury, a shoulder injury, and quite a few others that I am surely unaware of. They've both bounced back from that so I have to say they have lived up to what they were drafted for.

gwallaia
04-18-2005, 12:22 PM
This topic again!!

wiley2002
04-18-2005, 12:29 PM
Now that you mention it, this was asked last year. I guess we'll be seeing this even after both of them retire.

Diehardtexan
04-18-2005, 12:32 PM
This topic again!!
I agree!!! Put it to rest. Harrington is not even in the same league as Carr, and Carr still needs to get better or I would say ship both of them to Europ to learn how to play at a developmental league and compete for their jobs again.

Huge
04-18-2005, 12:50 PM
Still too early.

Both have had obstacles blocking their paths towards success (Harrington's teammates can't stay healthy...Carr's OL can't block).
Both showed marginal improvement in their 2nd season.
Both showed very good improvement in their 3rd season.
Both have statisticaly categories that point in their favor over the other.

4th season should provide more answers.

DocBar
04-18-2005, 07:41 PM
IMPO, I think both started out on fairly even playing fields(pun intended). The Lions aren't much morethan an expansion team. They weren't much more when they had Barry Sanders and Herman Moore. I think both have done a good job in difficult circumstances. I give Carr the edge on maturity level and decision making in the face of German Panzer battallions blitzkrieging across poland(or the line of scrimmage).

gg no re
04-18-2005, 08:18 PM
I would think the fact that the Lions signed Garcia shows how they feel about Harrington's development. The fact that fans also chanted for Mike McMahon to replace Harrington shows their feelings towards Harrington's development. heck, you got those rumors that said Joey was going to be cut.

You look at Carr, I doubt anyone has demanded that Tony Banks or Dave Ragone replace him immediately, or that we should sign Kurt Warner or Brad Johnson to push Carr to perform better.

dcarr08sprtsmedchik
04-18-2005, 09:54 PM
I live in Michigan and in a house full of Lions fans. I'm a huge Texans fan. I'd choose Carr over Harrington any day, even if Harrington wasn't on the Lions.

DocBar
04-18-2005, 11:54 PM
How about a HarriCarr like they had in Dumb and Dumber??? Just an intemperate thought.

Barryfan20
04-20-2005, 01:28 AM
Still too early.

Both have had obstacles blocking their paths towards success (Harrington's teammates can't stay healthy...Carr's OL can't block).
Both showed marginal improvement in their 2nd season.
Both showed very good improvement in their 3rd season.
Both have statisticaly categories that point in their favor over the other.

4th season should provide more answers.
Hi, and thanks for all of the opinions and I apologize for the "repeat" thread! As far as the Lions being like an expansion team, I strongly dissagree. The lions have always been very competitive and hold a tradition that is steeped in history. As far as Joey goes, last year he had no running game untill the 2nd half of the season, CR out so basically Joey had RW And OZ! He through for over 3000 yds and I believe 21 TDS not bad with a hobbled team! As I said before when all is said and done I believe both Carr and Harrington will be pro bowl QB's! Thanks again for the imput and good luck in the upcoming draft and season!! Go Lions!!

jacquescas
04-20-2005, 03:42 AM
This completely goes to Carr, Harrington isn't even assured the starting job next year, at this point Carr has the lead by a lot, he has been at the helm of an expansion team which gave him a muligan on most of the losses til now and he has put up better numbers and doesn't have Jeff Garcia and Mooch breathing down his neck and a new offensive scheme to boot. Harrington might bounce back, but i have a sneaking suspicion it wont be in detriot

TexansTrueFan
04-20-2005, 03:54 AM
hmm since i'm a texans fan,,,,and since i'm a homer,,,i'd have to say :hmmm: Let me see,,,,,CARR :thumbup no doubt about it, plus he'll prolly lose the starting job to Garcia.

spence425
04-20-2005, 04:25 PM
here's my input. i live in michigan, and am a lions fan, but have also become a huge fan of houston...i like the team makeup, and the whole attitude. my answer to both questions is Carr. i think he's closer to being there than joey, and i also think he will get there first. I agree with the first post however, both will be good...i just hope the lions stick with joey long enough to see it. for some reason he's taking longer than carr. no doubt about it though, carr can play, and he will definitely be a solid QB for quite a while...possibly even a pro-bowler if he can get another stud WR.

TopTexanFan16
04-20-2005, 04:29 PM
yea that and the O-line to gel together and play as a whole unit.

FILO_girl
04-20-2005, 04:40 PM
I'm sorry to say but its really not that even. I believe Carr has done WAY better with alot less. Carr took over a brand new offense that had never played together, while Harrington had an established o-line and team. Harrington was almost cut by the Lions this year and has been rumored to have confindence problems, while Carr is the Texans franchise QB. Just the way I see it.
:)

I agree. Put Harrington in Carr's spot the last 3 years...would you have gotten similar or better results? NO. David has yet to show us what he can do, I believe that Joey has. Jeffy Garcia may just sit him back in #2 position. Ain't no way Garcia would do that to Carr (if he was landed here for some unknown reason).
I hope that David is indeed of Favre theory (playing his career here) because while I have said a few critical things about him thus far, it is because I believe he hasn't played to potential yet. But he will soon and I am anticipating that potential to be great. :)
This year will answer alot of questions for some about the Texans and David's future..and if Casserly and Capers will be apart of it.

TopTexanFan16
04-20-2005, 04:45 PM
i dont think joey will be good....he'll be average at best. i think in the next 2 years he'll be a nobody a flop like rob johnson. IMO

TexansCanes
04-20-2005, 04:50 PM
do we need to have one of these every month. we all know that us texans will carr and then the detroit faithful with come back with how great joey is going to do this year. whats next another rogers/johnson debate? for the record carr and johnson as of right now.

TheOgre
04-20-2005, 05:09 PM
The Lions were in shambles and looked like an expansion team going into the 2002 draft. It seems like their progress has parelleled that of the Texans. I think both teams have the potential to make big jumps in the standings either this season or next.

Barryfan20
04-21-2005, 01:23 AM
I would think the fact that the Lions signed Garcia shows how they feel about Harrington's development. The fact that fans also chanted for Mike McMahon to replace Harrington shows their feelings towards Harrington's development. heck, you got those rumors that said Joey was going to be cut.

You look at Carr, I doubt anyone has demanded that Tony Banks or Dave Ragone replace him immediately, or that we should sign Kurt Warner or Brad Johnson to push Carr to perform better.
The lions signing of Garcia is 2 fold 1 probably the best back- up QB avalible and 2- to push Joey's talents! As far as any rumers of Joey being cut, I never heard this! I mean are you gunna cut a guy who through for as many yards as joey with basically no one to throw too? Thanks again for all of the responses and opinions! You all obviously know your football!! Go Lions!!

bubbajaxonbrown
04-21-2005, 01:41 AM
He's not going to be cut. That is ridiculous. I don't think he's that great but the Lions have invested too much time and patience to cut him this year. They'll give him 1 or 2 more with a veteren QB who knows the Mariucci system. If he doesn't get it by then....snip...snip...snip

By the way, Carr is better by far (I made a rhyme).

I've watched the Lions play and haven't ever heard a commentator compliment Harrington on his elusiveness, savvy, grit, or even how great his arm is. Carr has had all of these compliments while playing on national TV.

outofhnd
04-21-2005, 04:03 AM
we need to cut Joey a tad bit of slack.here

My honest comparison is this

Offenses learned over career

Carr 1 Harrington 2 Advantage Carr But Cut Joey a little slack I dont think your whole job description has ever totally changed on you to this magnitude and be expected to not only do your job but do your job better than you ever have.

Quality Star recievers

Carr 1 Harrington 1 (would have 2 if Rogers would quit breaking his collarbones) Advantage Harrington since we have yet to find that quality #2

Offensive Line

Carr 0 Harrington 1 Advantage Harrington there is no more tinkering there like we seem to have here at this point.

Decision Making

Carr 1 Harrington 0 Advantage Carr this stems from the playbook comparison earlier but also Carr isnt the reckless gunslinger Harrington can be when he tries to be to fine with his throws.

Arm Strength

Tie - they both have fabulous Arms

Toughness

Tie - Both play banged up i think harrington even had his finger relocated between snaps.

End result - niether guy honestly has been noticeably better than the other. Garcia was brought in because he knows the offense and can help Joey as well as push him. Joey has better tools than Garcia hands down.

Who would I rather Have? Well at first I liked Harrington alot in college he just impressed me. But I am glad we chose Carr and stick with him as our guy. Harrington is the Lions QB and will show a remarkable spike in play with incresed playbook knowledge and hopefully a healthy supporting cast.

Barryfan20
04-21-2005, 04:10 PM
The Lions were in shambles and looked like an expansion team going into the 2002 draft. It seems like their progress has parelleled that of the Texans. I think both teams have the potential to make big jumps in the standings either this season or next. Since Matt Millen took the GM spot, I really believe the lions are heading in the right direction! To me they are being very methodical in there dicision making. They are putting together a puzzle one piece at a time! The Texans are also a very young team and I look for them to improve greatly in 05. There are alot of lion fans who wish we would have gotten Carr, but I am still banking that Joey can get us to the promise land!! Go Lions!!

TheOgre
04-21-2005, 04:20 PM
Barry Sanders is my favorite back of all time, and I grew up with Earl Campbell as my team's RB here in Houston (who is a very close second). That should tell you something!!

I remember when Sanders beat the hell out of A&M when he was at OSU. The guy was so fun to watch. I don't know how many direct hits he ever took, he was so elusive. Can you believe Thurman Thomas and Barry Sanders shared the same backfield? And at OSU of all places?

TopTexanFan16
04-21-2005, 05:47 PM
"Originally Posted by gg no re
I would think the fact that the Lions signed Garcia shows how they feel about Harrington's development. The fact that fans also chanted for Mike McMahon to replace Harrington shows their feelings towards Harrington's development. heck, you got those rumors that said Joey was going to be cut."

hate to rain on ur parade but i've been to plenty of texans games when the fans chanted tony or ragone. its happened i think it'll happen to any QB that messes a few plays up in a row.

infantrycak
04-21-2005, 05:57 PM
hate to rain on ur parade but i've been to plenty of texans games when the fans chanted tony or ragone. its happened i think it'll happen to any QB that messes a few plays up in a row.

Ummm, sure you did. Unless it was some kind of localized chant being led by you in your section, I have been to every home game and have never heard anyone chant Tony or Ragone.

TopTexanFan16
04-21-2005, 06:00 PM
yea so have i, every home game and i hear it alot. espeacially during the browns game when everyong booed him. yea.

TopTexanFan16
04-21-2005, 06:03 PM
and yea i admit i've yelled it to when it seems like all he's doin is holding on to the ball and gettin sacked. u get a bunch of disgruntled fans together adding half of them r drunk ur gonna get that. so no its not just my section either but it has def. happened P.S. i've yelled it but never started it haha

TexansNeedRBin05
04-21-2005, 07:04 PM
Plain and Simple!

Harrington=Ryan Leaf

Carr=Peyton Manning!

:thumbup

TopTexanFan16
04-21-2005, 07:23 PM
hahaha carr= peyton manning as much as i want to beilive so i dont, at least not yet he hasnt reached his full potential yet and i think he'll be a great QB and have a good career.

disaacks3
04-21-2005, 07:57 PM
yea so have i, every home game and i hear it alot. espeacially during the browns game when everyong booed him. yea.
...and yea i admit i've yelled it to when it seems like all he's doin is holding on to the ball and gettin sacked. u get a bunch of disgruntled fans together adding half of them r drunk ur gonna get that. so no its not just my section either but it has def. happened P.S. i've yelled it but never started it haha I'm with Infantry on this one, I've got no idea what you're talking about w/ the Calling for Banks or (gasp!) Ragone. There's defnitely been no "organized chanting" as such.

Back to topic - When we drafted Carr, I said at the time that I'd been happy with either one, but time has definitely favored Carr (even in far less-favorable circumstances).

HoustonLionsFan
04-21-2005, 10:31 PM
Oh Geez....

I would like to prefice this by saying that D-Rek probably had the best post as far as, well, everything and I agree with everything he said....There were several posts that had similar ideas, and I agree 100%. Some posts like Filo-Girl leads me to think that some are posting opinions from a completely homer point of view (nothing wrong with that) without either ever having watched more than 1 or 2 Lions games or do not know much about football.

Some of you here recognize me, and you've probably heard alot of what I'm going to say, but I'm going to say it again for those that have not.

First off, Barry Fan- The Lions were like an expansion team. Millen came in and cleaned house. And Joey had 19 TD's last year, not 21.

OK, the biggest argument is Joey has had a 'team' around him, and Carr has had no Oline. This is the opinion of someone who has not watched the Lions for the past 3 yrs.

Let's start with the OLine- Houston has had trouble there ever since Boselli (sp?), no argument here.
Lions have had a decent (mediocre, average, etc...) line the past 3 seasons, although it did get better last season. Proof you ask? The Lions have not had a 1000 yd rusher in Joey's 3 seasons. In fact, they were last (I believe) in rushing in the NFL in 2002 and 2003, and KJ got most of his yds the last 8-9 games of the season. I will also say Joey threw the ball away, into coverage, or INT's sometimes instead of taking the sack. This also contributed to his lower sack total (it is not always in the stats). He corrected this alot last season. Advantage Joey

Running Game- Like I said above, last (or nearly (?)) in the NFL in Joey's first 2 seasons, Carr- 1000 yd runner in past 2 seasons. Advantage Carr

WR's- here is the difference in passing stats IMO. Joey has never had a true #1 WR in 3 seasons, or at least one that stayed healthy. In his rookie season, Joey had Hakim as his #1 WR (before he got hurt), then Bill Shroeder was #1 (think he's goog? Got cut by Tampa last year who was hurting for WR's), plus other no names that are not even in the league anymore. Second season, CRog goes down in the 5th game, Hakim is again the #1 WR, coming back after injury. And Joey was left with the like of Swinton (you guys have heard of him right? lol) who was picked up mid season off waivers, and a bunch of scrubs. Last year, CRog goes down on the third play of the first game, but we have RW, Hakim is back in the slot where he belongs, all is well, Lions are 4-2, Joey has the highest rated 4th quarter QB rating, until...RW goes down with an ankle injury. He only missed two games, but if you watched games after he came back, he was still hobbling and was basically a decoy. Hakim also got hurt in game 9 I think. Swinton, Kircus (practice squad) and Vines (Rookie) were starting for several weeks. I don't know how much ya'll know about the WCO, but it is founded on timing and reads at the LOS. QB and WR's all have to make reads at the line, WR's can run up to 3 different routes depending on the D. It is kind of hard to create any continuity with WR's when there is a revolving door at that position. But you don't here about the scrub WR's on sportscenter, so you have no idea how bad they were, hence my you don't watch Lions games comment.

I should also mention Lions led the NFL in drops the past 2 seasons (2 last year in the endzone that were game winners)

Now Carr has had AJ for two years, and Bradford, Gaffney have been here all 3 years (right?). Carr has better continuity with his WR's. While Bradford and Gaffney may not be the best, they are better than midseason waivers WR's, practice squad WR's and the Lions #4-6 WR's. Advantage Carr

Offensive philosophy- The seven step drop is what is killing Carr, more than the oline, IMO. I believe they are instituting more 3 and 5 step timing routes this year. That will help.
Like I said, WCO is about timing and reads, no continuity among WR's makes it hard for a QB to get into any type of rythmm. If you don't see that, you are who I was reffering to when I said you don't know much about football. Advantage Wash

Now, who is better? Honestly, I will say Carr, but not by as much as some on here think. As I have pointed out, both QB's have had problems. Some on here think the Oline is the problem with Carr and that is more important than Joey's lack in continuity at the WR position. I disagree, I think they are different but equal. Joey has no WR's to throw the ball to with his extra time and Carr has no time to get the ball to his good WR's. I call that a wash.

As far as Garcia is concerned, several thoughts on that. 1- had to have a quality backup, 2- he is familiar with the system, 3- came cheap. Garcia is there to backup Joey, mentor him, and come in if Joey falls on his face or gets hurt. That is all there is to it.

Now here is some interesting thoughts for ya'll. I have a feeling many of you have formed your opinion of Joey from ESPN, the newspaper, rumors, etc...and have never seen him play (much). The difference is, even though Joey and Carr have very, very similiar stats through 3 seasons, why is Carr still 'developing' and Joey sucks?

2 thoughts on this. 1- Carr is the 'All-American' kid, good christian, married, 4 (?) kids, etc... Joey is bashed as a quirky, wine and cheese eating weirdo. Carr is the media darling, much better for promotion.

2- Houston fans are much easier on Carr than Joey. Yes, Carr has been booed or whatever, but I was at a game where the Lions were 2 - 0, and he was booed during intros....In Detroit. The 'blue collar' fans in Detroit cannot relate to this guy. They call for his head, nevermind the rebuilding the team went through or the rash of injuries. It is much easier for the national media to form there opinons based on fans reactions than to actually watch all his games. I don't know, maybe Texans fans are just smarter ;)

Filo- would Joey have been as good as Carr on this team? I don't know, but I don't think he would have been much worse. The question is, could Carr have done better in a more complex O with no WR help? I don't think he could have done much better there either. BTW- they say the WCO takes 3 yrs to learn. Look at McNabbs #'s his first 3 yrs, or Steve Youngs, not hugely different than Joeys (except running yds).

To sum up, both TEAMS have had issues, Carr gets the slight edge, but they are both young and have alot to prove this year.

I tried to stay as objective as possible, I just focused on Joey because I know more about the Lions than ya'll and you already know about Carr. Hope you can take this as a learning experience as opposed to so and so is better.

HoustonLionsFan
04-21-2005, 10:38 PM
Oh, and BarryFan- There have been rumors of Joey being cut (although mostly by fans and Detroit media), but that is because he has a $10 mil cap number this year.

Texans fans- When is Carr's salary cap # going to skyrocket? Next year? He signed a significantly larger contract than Joey, 36 mil vs 60 mil, but Carr's is only 1 yr longer (and he hasn't had a very large salary yet). I'm just curious that if Carr has another mediocre season, despite Oline issues, but is due say 12 mil, what ya'll will be saying.

Barryfan20
04-22-2005, 01:40 AM
Oh Geez....

I would like to prefice this by saying that D-Rek probably had the best post as far as, well, everything and I agree with everything he said....There were several posts that had similar ideas, and I agree 100%. Some posts like Filo-Girl leads me to think that some are posting opinions from a completely homer point of view (nothing wrong with that) without either ever having watched more than 1 or 2 Lions games or do not know much about football.

Some of you here recognize me, and you've probably heard alot of what I'm going to say, but I'm going to say it again for those that have not.

First off, Barry Fan- The Lions were like an expansion team. Millen came in and cleaned house. And Joey had 19 TD's last year, not 21.

OK, the biggest argument is Joey has had a 'team' around him, and Carr has had no Oline. This is the opinion of someone who has not watched the Lions for the past 3 yrs.

Let's start with the OLine- Houston has had trouble there ever since Boselli (sp?), no argument here.
Lions have had a decent (mediocre, average, etc...) line the past 3 seasons, although it did get better last season. Proof you ask? The Lions have not had a 1000 yd rusher in Joey's 3 seasons. In fact, they were last (I believe) in rushing in the NFL in 2002 and 2003, and KJ got most of his yds the last 8-9 games of the season. I will also say Joey threw the ball away, into coverage, or INT's sometimes instead of taking the sack. This also contributed to his lower sack total (it is not always in the stats). He corrected this alot last season. Advantage Joey

Running Game- Like I said above, last (or nearly (?)) in the NFL in Joey's first 2 seasons, Carr- 1000 yd runner in past 2 seasons. Advantage Carr

WR's- here is the difference in passing stats IMO. Joey has never had a true #1 WR in 3 seasons, or at least one that stayed healthy. In his rookie season, Joey had Hakim as his #1 WR (before he got hurt), then Bill Shroeder was #1 (think he's goog? Got cut by Tampa last year who was hurting for WR's), plus other no names that are not even in the league anymore. Second season, CRog goes down in the 5th game, Hakim is again the #1 WR, coming back after injury. And Joey was left with the like of Swinton (you guys have heard of him right? lol) who was picked up mid season off waivers, and a bunch of scrubs. Last year, CRog goes down on the third play of the first game, but we have RW, Hakim is back in the slot where he belongs, all is well, Lions are 4-2, Joey has the highest rated 4th quarter QB rating, until...RW goes down with an ankle injury. He only missed two games, but if you watched games after he came back, he was still hobbling and was basically a decoy. Hakim also got hurt in game 9 I think. Swinton, Kircus (practice squad) and Vines (Rookie) were starting for several weeks. I don't know how much ya'll know about the WCO, but it is founded on timing and reads at the LOS. QB and WR's all have to make reads at the line, WR's can run up to 3 different routes depending on the D. It is kind of hard to create any continuity with WR's when there is a revolving door at that position. But you don't here about the scrub WR's on sportscenter, so you have no idea how bad they were, hence my you don't watch Lions games comment.

I should also mention Lions led the NFL in drops the past 2 seasons (2 last year in the endzone that were game winners)

Now Carr has had AJ for two years, and Bradford, Gaffney have been here all 3 years (right?). Carr has better continuity with his WR's. While Bradford and Gaffney may not be the best, they are better than midseason waivers WR's, practice squad WR's and the Lions #4-6 WR's. Advantage Carr

Offensive philosophy- The seven step drop is what is killing Carr, more than the oline, IMO. I believe they are instituting more 3 and 5 step timing routes this year. That will help.
Like I said, WCO is about timing and reads, no continuity among WR's makes it hard for a QB to get into any type of rythmm. If you don't see that, you are who I was reffering to when I said you don't know much about football. Advantage Wash

Now, who is better? Honestly, I will say Carr, but not by as much as some on here think. As I have pointed out, both QB's have had problems. Some on here think the Oline is the problem with Carr and that is more important than Joey's lack in continuity at the WR position. I disagree, I think they are different but equal. Joey has no WR's to throw the ball to with his extra time and Carr has no time to get the ball to his good WR's. I call that a wash.

As far as Garcia is concerned, several thoughts on that. 1- had to have a quality backup, 2- he is familiar with the system, 3- came cheap. Garcia is there to backup Joey, mentor him, and come in if Joey falls on his face or gets hurt. That is all there is to it.

Now here is some interesting thoughts for ya'll. I have a feeling many of you have formed your opinion of Joey from ESPN, the newspaper, rumors, etc...and have never seen him play (much). The difference is, even though Joey and Carr have very, very similiar stats through 3 seasons, why is Carr still 'developing' and Joey sucks?

2 thoughts on this. 1- Carr is the 'All-American' kid, good christian, married, 4 (?) kids, etc... Joey is bashed as a quirky, wine and cheese eating weirdo. Carr is the media darling, much better for promotion.

2- Houston fans are much easier on Carr than Joey. Yes, Carr has been booed or whatever, but I was at a game where the Lions were 2 - 0, and he was booed during intros....In Detroit. The 'blue collar' fans in Detroit cannot relate to this guy. They call for his head, nevermind the rebuilding the team went through or the rash of injuries. It is much easier for the national media to form there opinons based on fans reactions than to actually watch all his games. I don't know, maybe Texans fans are just smarter ;)

Filo- would Joey have been as good as Carr on this team? I don't know, but I don't think he would have been much worse. The question is, could Carr have done better in a more complex O with no WR help? I don't think he could have done much better there either. BTW- they say the WCO takes 3 yrs to learn. Look at McNabbs #'s his first 3 yrs, or Steve Youngs, not hugely different than Joeys (except running yds).

To sum up, both TEAMS have had issues, Carr gets the slight edge, but they are both young and have alot to prove this year.

I tried to stay as objective as possible, I just focused on Joey because I know more about the Lions than ya'll and you already know about Carr. Hope you can take this as a learning experience as opposed to so and so is better.
Being from mich, Battle Creek to be specific, I have been a fan for almost 40 years! This discription and comparision is right on the money. Just another example of how stats can be deceiving, and how the "intangibles" are so important to making an educated evaluation. I know these young men get paid a butt-load of money, but there is so much pressure laid on these guys that It's a wonder more don't wash out like a leaf. Obviously these 2 QBs have the charector to play through adversity and critisism and says alot about there integrity. Again I feel both will do fine and when all is said and done they will be at the top. Everybody thinks Brady is so good but plug either Carr or Joey in with NE offense and watch both shine! Thanks again for all of the imput as I have found all most interesting!! Go Lions!!

JacksonvilleJaguar4
04-23-2005, 04:34 PM
screw them both! I want Jared Lorenzen! :thumbup

Barryfan20
04-24-2005, 02:19 AM
I've had a bet for the last 3yrs on this very thing with a lions
fan.. Time to re-new it for this year.. easy money betting on
Super Dave.. Will make my phone call as soon as I post this.
Thanks again... :thumbup I'm not sure I understand, are you saying that it's money in the bank to bet on your QB or against ours? I wouldn't want to bet on either right now as the wins are not consistant and at least as far as the lions go, we lost to teams that we should have beat and won those games we shouldn't have! You will have a much improved "D" this year and I believe are play-off bound!! Good luck- Go Lions!!

Barryfan20
04-24-2005, 04:43 AM
Yeh, harrington just flat out SUCKS!
Well partner, he did manage to come out with a win from the texans last year, and tha was minus a running game, and a #1 WR out! I'm not saying he's a pro- bowl QB YET, but I think to say he sucks couldn't be further from the truth! Go Lions!!

LoNghoRn-TeXaN
04-24-2005, 04:49 AM
Well partner, he did manage to come out with a win from the texans last year, and tha was minus a running game, and a #1 WR out! I'm not saying he's a pro- bowl QB YET, but I think to say he sucks couldn't be further from the truth! Go Lions!!

Well a guy named Jeff Garcia has been brought in to improve the Lions. He does suck!

gg no re
04-24-2005, 02:19 PM
Well partner, he did manage to come out with a win from the texans last yearWhen you're given 3 turnovers to work with, a KR for a TD, and a healthy Roy Williams on a hot streak, there is no reason you should lose that game.

TexansNeedRBin05
04-24-2005, 02:25 PM
Oh, and BarryFan- There have been rumors of Joey being cut (although mostly by fans and Detroit media), but that is because he has a $10 mil cap number this year.

Texans fans- When is Carr's salary cap # going to skyrocket? Next year? He signed a significantly larger contract than Joey, 36 mil vs 60 mil, but Carr's is only 1 yr longer (and he hasn't had a very large salary yet). I'm just curious that if Carr has another mediocre season, despite Oline issues, but is due say 12 mil, what ya'll will be saying.

I think Carr has looked great top 10 QB in the leauge and deserves 12 mill (if any NFL player deserves 12 mill.) first team in NFL history to use 3 1st round picks in the last 3 years to draft at WR. Harrington better show something!

Barryfan20
04-25-2005, 01:20 AM
Well a guy named Jeff Garcia has been brought in to improve the Lions. He does suck! Once again Garcia was brought in to BACK Joey up,not to replace him. As far as the comment that someone made about the outcome of our 2 teams meeting last year; I was responding to a Joey sucks thread, and simply pointed out that he must not suck to bad as we managed to come out with a win. To make excuses such as turnovers returned kicks and such, is obsurd! Last time I checked that is called football and there is no * beside the win saying this or that is why. I truly feel that these 2 QB's have similar great qualitys and will be great one day, thanks for all of the imput as it's most interesting to hear all of your comments! Go Lions!!

Barryfan20
04-25-2005, 03:14 PM
My roll is fat: My Lion buddy wallet is cleaned out.. We let
the quarterback rating's, settle who wins.. Oh, by the way
he's really hot too bet this year... Sic em Super Dave... :thumbup
I'm happy for you, but I don't understand how you cleaned your lions buddys wallet out? I have been known to make a friendly wager or two, maybe we can talk further as the season gets closer! That is a great idea well let the stats decide who is the better QB! Thanks again for the great comments and good luck stay injury free!! Go Lions

JacksonvilleJaguar4
04-25-2005, 11:41 PM
hey Kerry Collins is pretty good too! :thumbup

JacksonvilleJaguar4
04-25-2005, 11:42 PM
^Chris Chandler also comes to mind..... :thumbup

HoustonLionsFan
04-25-2005, 11:46 PM
first team in NFL history to use 3 1st round picks in the last 3 years to draft at WR. Harrington better show something!

Absolutely



Well since it will take Joey 3 1st round WRs to even come close to Carr, then good luck to you too.

Well, if either of the past two could have stayed healthy for more than 6 games (CR- 6 games in 2 season, RW- Healthy for ~6 games last season)....How many games has AJ been injured in 2 seasons? Bradford? Gaffney? Probably help if you read my long post, but then again, you wouldn't be able to 'prove' your point if you had. Actually, sounds more like an early excuse to me

Again, not saying who is better, but I am objective. I think Carr gets a slight edge, but not as much as many of you would like to believe

Wolf
04-25-2005, 11:54 PM
what gets me about the lions.. is what do they do in about 3 or 4 years?... They are developing WR's for another team right now.. being they aren't going to be able to pay these guys.. Just alot of money put up for 3 at the same position...

Unless Rogers' injury is worse than I am hearing about

but we would love to take the Texas boy back to Texas in about 3 to 4 years :rolleyes:

BTW.. I am not saying Carr is better or Worse than the piano man.. but I'd like to see Carr run an offense with those studs at WR :shocked

Barryfan20
04-26-2005, 01:33 AM
what gets me about the lions.. is what do they do in about 3 or 4 years?... They are developing WR's for another team right now.. being they aren't going to be able to pay these guys.. Just alot of money put up for 3 at the same position...

Unless Rogers' injury is worse than I am hearing about

but we would love to take the Texas boy back to Texas in about 3 to 4 years :rolleyes:

BTW.. I am not saying Carr is better or Worse than the piano man.. but I'd like to see Carr run an offense with those studs at WR :shocked
I kinda feel the same way, if these guys turn out to be as good as I feel they will be. There is no way we will be able to afford all of them. On the up-side though, its pretty easy to trade talented players!! As far as your "likeing to see Carr with these guys, Joey would like to see how that would feel too! Go Lions!!

HoustonLionsFan
04-27-2005, 12:51 AM
what gets me about the lions.. is what do they do in about 3 or 4 years?... They are developing WR's for another team right now.. being they aren't going to be able to pay these guys.. Just alot of money put up for 3 at the same position...

Unless Rogers' injury is worse than I am hearing about

but we would love to take the Texas boy back to Texas in about 3 to 4 years :rolleyes:

BTW.. I am not saying Carr is better or Worse than the piano man.. but I'd like to see Carr run an offense with those studs at WR :shocked

Yeah, there are alot of Lions fans singing that tune right now too. But CR and RW are under contract for 4 more years, and MW will probably sign a 5-6 yr deal. IMO, this means they will probably only keep RW OR CR, not both. Unless one ends up not being as great as the hype (hopefully CR). But, maybe winning will cure all that ails. Ok, I can't even say that wwith a straight face.

I don't think CR's injury is more serious than is reported, I think it is more a concern over injury period. I mean CR injured 2 seasons and superman, I mean Roy hurt an ankle in game 6 and that was the season. Lions had no depth at WR (Hakim was hurt for several games too, starting about game 8). I think the Lions were going to wait to take a WR, but when MW was there they just couldn't pass on it.

And I can't wait to see what Joey can do with these WR's. One way or another it will end the nonstop QB debate in Det (and maybe Houston, lol)

Trogdor014
04-27-2005, 01:07 AM
And I can't wait to see what Joey can do with these WR's. One way or another it will end the nonstop QB debate in Det (and maybe Houston, lol)

How would it end the QB debate in Houston involving Carr and Harrington?

Barryfan20
04-27-2005, 04:19 AM
:thumbup Hey Barryfan20 keep telling yourself Garcia was JUST brought in to backup Bloey. Last year our back up was Mike Mcmahon, personally I really liked him alot. Great mobility, strong arm, great attitude. I knew he would not remain a lion, and feel he will be great for phi. The lions were looking for someone with experience, winning experience, and Garcia has a proven winning record. In my opinion, the lions want joey to have some competition, and learn from a west coast guy who's won and has mastered the system. If Harrington does not show that he can take his game to the next level this year, meaning 4 or 5 games into the season, he will be replaced! I have faith that Joey is the QB of the lions future and like Carr will be a hall of famer one day! Hey, I can dream if I want too!!! Go Lions!!

ATX
04-27-2005, 04:40 AM
will this thread ever end? i don't care about joey harrington, and i'd think and probably accurately predict that most texans don't care about harrington. it's like apples and oranges. carr went to an expansion team and harrington went to a team thats been around for a long time. who should have played better? harrington who has played better? carr

TexanExile
04-27-2005, 09:32 AM
Heh...for some folks, it'll end when either Harrington or Carr is out of a starting job. This is like the "Fire Capers! Fire Palmer!" threads on Sunday afternoons...regular as clockwork. Had Ryan Leaf not flamed out, Colts fans would be dealing with a similar debate all the time.

JfromthaTray
04-27-2005, 09:35 AM
3 years in:
TD'S Harrington 48 Carr 34
Completions Harrington 798 Carr 685
Harrington also has more yards, I need that formula you're using to say that Carr has played better.

infantrycak
04-27-2005, 09:59 AM
3 years in:
TD'S Harrington 48 Carr 34
Completions Harrington 798 Carr 685
Harrington also has more yards, I need that formula you're using to say that Carr has played better.

Wow, nice selection of stats there. Harrington has a whopping 100 more yards--think that has anything to do with the two less games Carr has played in?--and by the way Carr had almost 500 yds more last year. Harrington has 110 more completions--well, duh--he has only attempted 270 more passes. Harrington does have more TD's, but then again he has 8 more INT's too. How about--completion %--61.2% Carr, 56 % Harrington (in an offense designed to have a high completion %); ypa--7.58 Carr, 6.23 Harrington; QB rating--83.5 Carr, 77.5 Harrington. Carr has also rushed for more yards in two different seasons than Harrington has rushed for his whole career. This while Carr has been sacked 140 times and Harrington 53 times.

Barryfan20
04-28-2005, 02:30 AM
will this thread ever end? i don't care about joey harrington, and i'd think and probably accurately predict that most texans don't care about harrington. it's like apples and oranges. carr went to an expansion team and harrington went to a team thats been around for a long time. who should have played better? harrington who has played better? carr
you know, it's funny how everyone views things differently, when I posted this thread, the "expansion team" vs the "established franchise team" never crossed my mind. Actually, I feel our teams have alot in common, both young, good QBs, and improving defenses. Carr and Harrington have a alot in common also, both in there 4th year, both, have niether proven if they can meet the expectations, and both feel this pressure of these expectations! Both are pretty close stat's wise, and have similar style's. Anyway, I appreciate everyones opinions!! On another note your new DT is quite a story, really great that he has overcome some tough issues in his young life. He should be an impact player from day 1. Go Lions!!

HoustonLionsFan
04-28-2005, 09:24 PM
How about--completion %--61.2% Carr, 56 % Harrington (in an offense designed to have a high completion %); ypa--7.58 Carr, 6.23 Harrington; QB rating--83.5 Carr, 77.5 Harrington. Carr has also rushed for more yards in two different seasons than Harrington has rushed for his whole career. This while Carr has been sacked 140 times and Harrington 53 times.

Do you know what this tells me?

Exactly what I said earlier, Joey had a better Line and Carr had better weapons. No more, no less.