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b0ng
05-03-2011, 12:14 AM
I was thinking about this tonight and I was wondering, have we ever had a good safety starting for us? I know Pollard was decent in 2009, and Demps was okay in 2007, but before that it was C. C. Brown and before that Matt Stevens was in there and I have to go vomit.

Have we ever had anybody who was worth even. . . a shit back there in either safety spot?

MadBurgerMaker
05-03-2011, 12:31 AM
At some point Marcus Coleman and Marlon McCree both played FS for the Texans, but I may have blocked it out because I can't, for the life of me, remember how good/terrible they were.

E: 03 for McCree, 04 for Coleman?

Jackie Chiles
05-03-2011, 12:45 AM
I think the best single season we have ever gotten out of a safety was Bernard Pollard in 09 BY FAR and he was pretty much exposed this past season. The answer to your question is no.

Brandon420tx
05-03-2011, 12:49 AM
Best FS - Marcus Coleman,

Best SS - Bernard Pollard

Allstar
05-03-2011, 02:10 AM
09 Pollard made a huge impact on our Defense. 2010 Pollard was exposed, much like the rest of the defense.

Lucky
05-03-2011, 06:47 AM
I posted this in the Donte Whitner thread (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1692065&postcount=18), and it seems to be more appropriate here:


Pollard gets a lot of bashing here, and somewhat deservingly. Did he bust assignments? Probably. But, he also made plays. And while the other Texans DBs get the benefit of the doubt that improved coaching will raise their level of play (see: Jackson, Kareem), Pollard is deemed hopeless. I look back at the 2009 Pollard (when he didn't go through Texans training camps or mini camps), and he was one of the best players on the team. A "coached up" 2010 Pollard was much worse. Why couldn't Bernard improve under Wade Phillips and staff?
So I pose the question, why can't Pollard get better under Phillips? Everyone else on the defense can improve, but not Bernard? Does that make sense? The Texans are sitting with a huge hole at the SS spot and are letting the best safety they ever had go. Not tendering Pollard was a mistake, IMO, if 2011 is played under the 2010 salary rules. I'm not suggesting Pollard should of been handed the starting job without competition. Just that the Texans may have let their best option walk away.

El Tejano
05-03-2011, 07:21 AM
Marlon Mcree was the best we ever had. Our dumb staff let him go and he went on to have a very decent tenure with San Diego. Marlon was just on a very crappy defense with absolutely no pass rush. If you thought our pass rush was bad now, oh it was much worse then.

My favorite memory of Marlon Mcree was when he returned a Steve Mcnair interception 95 yards for a late 4th quarter TD.....of course Mcnair came back and beat us with a TD to Drew Bennett.

thunderkyss
05-03-2011, 07:28 AM
I'm going to go against the grain, & say I think we've always had good safeties. Not great, not spectacular, not special.

Bernard I think was the only above average safety we've had & that is the problem. Same with Dunta, slightly above average, these were "team leaders" & the team was satisfied with that for a long time.

Ndevine7
05-03-2011, 07:35 AM
I posted this in the Donte Whitner thread (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1692065&postcount=18), and it seems to be more appropriate here:


So I pose the question, why can't Pollard get better under Phillips? Everyone else on the defense can improve, but not Bernard? Does that make sense? The Texans are sitting with a huge hole at the SS spot and are letting the best safety they ever had go. Not tendering Pollard was a mistake, IMO, if 2011 is played under the 2010 salary rules. I'm not suggesting Pollard should of been handed the starting job without competition. Just that the Texans may have let their best option walk away.

I completely agree Pollard should have been tendered and given the chance to start if he drastically improved. Worst case scenario is he could be a solid ST and help on running plays. With SS such a question mark this season i think Pollard shouldve been tendered

thunderkyss
05-03-2011, 07:38 AM
I completely agree Pollard should have been tendered and given the chance to start if he drastically improved. Worst case scenario is he could be a solid ST and help on running plays. With SS such a question mark this season i think Pollard shouldve been tendered

or hopefully they are saying we not going to settle for "good enough" anymore.

I know there is a little scapegoating going on here.

Post draft (Kubiak's comments withstanding) looks like the onus is on Rick Smith to fix our secondary through FA.

Ndevine7
05-03-2011, 07:42 AM
or hopefully they are saying we not going to settle for "good enough" anymore.

I know there is a little scapegoating going on here.

Post draft (Kubiak's comments withstanding) looks like the onus is on Rick Smith to fix our secondary through FA.

Wasnt Pollard a probowl candidate in 2009? To me being a candidate for the pro bowl after not even starting the year on the team is something ill take considering the potential SS we have so far. No knock on Keo or Nolan but if Pollard proved he was a better player in training camp he shouldve started thats why i think we shouldved tendered him

thunderkyss
05-03-2011, 07:46 AM
Wasnt Pollard a probowl candidate in 2009? To me being a candidate for the pro bowl after not even starting the year on the team is something ill take considering the potential SS we have so far. No knock on Keo or Nolan but if Pollard proved he was a better player in training camp he shouldve started thats why i think we shouldved tendered him

Roy Williams was a true pro-bowler when used in the manner we used Bernard Pollard in '09.

But he limits what you can do scheme-wise. I completely understand the idea that we should have kept Bernard & coached him up. I'm just throwing out possibilities.

TimeKiller
05-03-2011, 07:46 AM
I can't believe Pollard wouldn't take a contract with a demotion from starter. He must really, really, really not fit what Wade wants.

dsorc
05-03-2011, 07:50 AM
I posted this in the Donte Whitner thread (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1692065&postcount=18), and it seems to be more appropriate here:


So I pose the question, why can't Pollard get better under Phillips? Everyone else on the defense can improve, but not Bernard? Does that make sense? The Texans are sitting with a huge hole at the SS spot and are letting the best safety they ever had go. Not tendering Pollard was a mistake, IMO, if 2011 is played under the 2010 salary rules. I'm not suggesting Pollard should of been handed the starting job without competition. Just that the Texans may have let their best option walk away.

The move is a little odd but not unexpected. Pollard is a good in the box SS. He was good in 09 because he was able to come in and play the run. Last year, his coverage shortcomings (which were also there in 09) were exposed and it didn't help that to my eyes we played more cover 2. Phillips systems will be cover 2 based as far as I know which pulls Pollard away from his strength and would highlight his weakness. Pollard is very similar to Roy Williams, another very good in the box safety, who struggled in Phillips scheme.

The main thing that doesn't make sense to me is why we drafted Keo or have kept Barber who look to be in the same mold as Pollard.

steelbtexan
05-03-2011, 08:12 AM
Wasnt Pollard a probowl candidate in 2009? To me being a candidate for the pro bowl after not even starting the year on the team is something ill take considering the potential SS we have so far. No knock on Keo or Nolan but if Pollard proved he was a better player in training camp he shouldve started thats why i think we shouldved tendered him

Safties have to be able to cover in Phillips scheme. Pollard proved last yr that he wasn't the man for the job.

I'm with TK, it's on R.Smith to find a CB and S in FA. Veteran leadership that can play is badly needed on the back end.

CloakNNNdagger
05-03-2011, 08:12 AM
I've followed Weddle and he could definitely be someone that Wade could incorporated into his D (even in a "twin" responsibility system) and deliver immediate impact.

Maybe try Eric Weddle

Assuming the worst would leave Tampa Bay without Tanard Jackson and Aqib Talib. Many ideas are being thrown around as far as getting a free agent cornerback like Antonio Cromartie, Nnamdi Asomugha, and Jonathan Joseph. Concerning safeties- there hasn't been nearly as much speculation.

The free agent safety crop is by no means stellar this off season, but the name that jumps out is Eric Weddle. San Diego placed a first round tender on him in March, however established tenders may not be binding depending on the outcome of the new collective bargaining agreement. Should the new agreement render the tenders void, Weddle will be courted by several clubs.

I like Weddle for Tampa because of his intelligence. He's quick, has adequate ball skills, and is a sure tackler. Weddle performs well in coverage and against the run- this set of skills would upgrade the position for the Bucs substantially. He's only 26 years old and hasn't any character concerns. Given his awareness on the field and the schematic positional similarities, I believe he could play either FS or SS in Tampa's defense.

Mostly I cannot stress the importance of his tackling ability. Cody Grimm performed well in that regard while Sean Jones was merely satisfactory. Having a safety on the roster who breaks down and wraps up saves a lot of points. Weddle could help guide Grimm with his covering techniques and turn him into a serviceable starter who could be reasonably better than Jones.

link (http://www.bucsnation.com/2011/5/2/2134751/maybe-try-eric-weddle)

rmartin65
05-03-2011, 08:21 AM
If we can land both Weddle and Aso, there is no doubt in my mind that the Texans are Super Bowl contenders. A top 5 offense, and a revamped D? Awesome. Only Kubes is curbing my enthusiasm in this scenario.

thunderkyss
05-03-2011, 08:31 AM
I've followed Weddle and he could definitely be someone that Wade could incorporated into his D (even in a "twin" responsibility system) and deliver immediate impact.



link (http://www.bucsnation.com/2011/5/2/2134751/maybe-try-eric-weddle)

I wonder what kind of relationship Wade had with Weddle & if that will help us any.

HOU-TEX
05-03-2011, 08:34 AM
Boy, seems a few around here have had a little memory loss after last season. Pollard was our worst DB this past season. He bit on the PA every damn time a team ran a PA pass. Always lookin for the big hit, which is fine as long as your job is covered 1st. He and our other safety's were always behind when they were supposed to be over the top with help. Sure, our CB's were below average but the play from our safety's and coverage from our LB's were horrible.

IDEXAN
05-03-2011, 08:34 AM
The front 7 (whether in a 3-4 or 4-3 alignmnet) are more important than the back-end, and the corners are the most important positions in the back-end.
Therefor that should give all of you wondering about the safety position what the priorites Wade and Co have in staffing their defense.

Ndevine7
05-03-2011, 08:34 AM
If we can land both Weddle and Aso, there is no doubt in my mind that the Texans are Super Bowl contenders. A top 5 offense, and a revamped D? Awesome. Only Kubes is curbing my enthusiasm in this scenario.

while it would be awesome, i doubt BoB would be willing to open the wallet and land both of these guys

steelbtexan
05-03-2011, 09:13 AM
Boy, seems a few around here have had a little memory loss after last season. Pollard was our worst DB this past season. He bit on the PA every damn time a team ran a PA pass. Always lookin for the big hit, which is fine as long as your job is covered 1st. He and our other safety's were always behind when they were supposed to be over the top with help. Sure, our CB's were below average but the play from our safety's and coverage from our LB's were horrible.

The LB play was atrocious last yr as well as the DB play. Hopefully Whitner can be signed in FA. Along with another vet CB.

This is on BoB and Rick to get the players needed to improve the secondary.

While I like the Keo pick a vet should be signed to kind of show Keo the ropes. This will allow Keo time to develop. Unlke what Gary,Rick and Bush did with K.Jackson.

Allowing Harris and Carmicheal a yr to get their feet wet would be the prudent thing to do. IMHO I expect Harris to be the nickle DB this yr and become a starter in 2 yrs. Carmichel will then be ready to take over the Nickle DB responsibities after next yr and contribute on ST's this yr.

Regardless the less I see of Molden,McCain,Barber on the field the better.

Texan_Bill
05-03-2011, 09:29 AM
At some point Marcus Coleman and Marlon McCree both played FS for the Texans, but I may have blocked it out because I can't, for the life of me, remember how good/terrible they were.

E: 03 for McCree, 04 for Coleman?

McCree was decent but not spectacular for us. Coleman was on the downside of his career when he moved to safety. That said, he played well but again, not spectacular..

rmartin65
05-03-2011, 09:34 AM
while it would be awesome, i doubt BoB would be willing to open the wallet and land both of these guys

Oh, no doubt. It was just my best case scenario. I hope we get at least one, but I am not banking on it.

Brandon420tx
05-03-2011, 10:26 AM
People need to start warming up to the idea that Sensabaugh will be our FA safety acquisition. While I would prefer Weddle, Dawan Landry or Huff as most people would. Judging by the draft, Wade seems to pull for guys he's had some sort of experiance with. Which in my view probably puts Sensabaugh as the frontrunner FA, We'll bring in 1 or 2 other safeties but we won't seriously offer them what they want, it'll be just a show for the fans

After a little research, I found that Sensa might have a few attitude problems, and Wade never really praised him to a large extent (He did in 2009, called him out in 2010) so we actually might be looking somewhere else. This probably just puts him equal with the other FA safeties then.

TimeKiller
05-03-2011, 10:33 AM
Boy, seems a few around here have had a little memory loss after last season. Pollard was our worst DB this past season. He bit on the PA every damn time a team ran a PA pass. Always lookin for the big hit, which is fine as long as your job is covered 1st. He and our other safety's were always behind when they were supposed to be over the top with help. Sure, our CB's were below average but the play from our safety's and coverage from our LB's were horrible.

I mean as a backup/special team captain. He would be awesome in that role.

badboy
05-03-2011, 10:46 AM
Is it possible that Pollard played so well in 2009 since he had just been cut by former team and was in a "show you" mood? I am hoping to get a bump in productivity from Mario as this is his last season and he should be in a "show you" mood.

disaacks3
05-03-2011, 10:47 AM
I'm going to go against the grain, & say I think we've always had good safeties. Not great, not spectacular, not special.

Bernard I think was the only above average safety we've had & that is the problem. Same with Dunta, slightly above average, these were "team leaders" & the team was satisfied with that for a long time. I don't hink the Texans have ever had a good FS (other than McCree), and SS has always lacked in one area or another.

The move is a little odd but not unexpected. Pollard is a good in the box SS. He was good in 09 because he was able to come in and play the run. Last year, his coverage shortcomings (which were also there in 09) were exposed and it didn't help that to my eyes we played more cover 2. Phillips systems will be cover 2 based as far as I know which pulls Pollard away from his strength and would highlight his weakness. Pollard is very similar to Roy Williams, another very good in the box safety, who struggled in Phillips scheme.

The main thing that doesn't make sense to me is why we drafted Keo or have kept Barber who look to be in the same mold as Pollard. Yep, Pollard was a great 4th linebacker, but doesn't have the speed (or instincts) for coverage.

b0ng
05-03-2011, 10:58 AM
Bernie was alright in '09 but having 2 safeties who can't cover really sucked, and besides the occasional big hit, he really doesn't bring anything else to the table.

To me it seems pretty obvious that there are maybe 2 great safeties in the entire league (Polamalu, Reed) then there's about 3 or so guys who are really good (Rolle, Berry, Collins I guess?) and then the rest are just there. I'd like for the Texans to not get killed by TE's for once and it seems like the best bet would be to find somebody in FA who can cover.

kiwitexansfan
05-03-2011, 11:14 AM
I posted this in the Donte Whitner thread (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1692065&postcount=18), and it seems to be more appropriate here:


So I pose the question, why can't Pollard get better under Phillips? Everyone else on the defense can improve, but not Bernard? Does that make sense? The Texans are sitting with a huge hole at the SS spot and are letting the best safety they ever had go. Not tendering Pollard was a mistake, IMO, if 2011 is played under the 2010 salary rules. I'm not suggesting Pollard should of been handed the starting job without competition. Just that the Texans may have let their best option walk away.

Same reasons Roy Williams didn't. Not in their football DNA.

ChampionTexan
05-03-2011, 11:34 AM
I posted this in the Donte Whitner thread (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1692065&postcount=18), and it seems to be more appropriate here:


So I pose the question, why can't Pollard get better under Phillips? Everyone else on the defense can improve, but not Bernard? Does that make sense? The Texans are sitting with a huge hole at the SS spot and are letting the best safety they ever had go. Not tendering Pollard was a mistake, IMO, if 2011 is played under the 2010 salary rules. I'm not suggesting Pollard should of been handed the starting job without competition. Just that the Texans may have let their best option walk away.

The "Great Frank Bush experiment" gave us a flicker or two of hope, but ended up as a flaming pile of wreckage in a short period of time. Maybe it's just me, and granted it's with the benefit of seeing what's transpired since the season ended, but in addition to Bush himself, the two who most personified that failed experiment were Pollard and David Gibbs. Given the culture change that needs to take place, I can't argue with both of those guys being shown the door along with Bush - even if an argument can be made that Pollard's talents could have warranted him staying.

I will add that the remaining player I associate the most with this two year failure is Antonio Smith. Not that he's been bad at all - I think I probably have a higher opinion of his two years with us than most - but even at that, he's drenched in the stink of the past two years. He's still under contract, and he's probably got some trade value, so I understand why he's still here. Even though he may very well be a Texan for all of the 2011 season, I have a hard time seeing him as a Texan much longer than that - and under the right circumstances, wouldn't mind if he were gone earlier.

I know there are other starters - guys like Cushing and Quinn whose entire NFL career currently consists of playing in a Frank Bush coordinated defense, but Pollard was tied in previously via Gibbs, and Smith was tied in previously via Bush in AZ, and I just view them differently.

powda
05-03-2011, 11:36 AM
I don't hink the Texans have ever had a good FS (other than McCree),



It's a sad state of affairs when anyone can say that and be right. McCree was the best of a bad bunch...but make no mistake...McCree was not good.

Its clear to me the Texans do not value this postion and elect not to dedicate any cap space to it. They would rather spend resources on other positions. I was shocked with the Keo draft selection as he is similar to Pollard in his skill set.

Perhaps with a new coaching staff we can finally end this trend. All anyone has to do is look to the more successfull playoff teams. Many of them have at least 1 quality safety. If we put someone with legitimate ball skills on the back end we might actually get more turnovers.............

b0ng
05-03-2011, 11:47 AM
It's a sad state of affairs when anyone can say that and be right. McCree was the best of a bad bunch...but make no mistake...McCree was not good.

Its clear to me the Texans do not value this postion and elect not to dedicate any cap space to it. They would rather spend resources on other positions. I was shocked with the Keo draft selection as he is similar to Pollard in his skill set.

Perhaps with a new coaching staff we can finally end this trend. All anyone has to do is look to the more successfull playoff teams. Many of them have at least 1 quality safety. If we put someone with legitimate ball skills on the back end we might actually get more turnovers.............

I honestly think that a good portion of our turnover problems on defense can be related to not getting consistent pressure on the QB. We did once last year, and that was in the first game against Manning who still torched us for 400+ yards. If we make the pass rush good for consistent pressure our turnovers will probably go up. Is it a wonder that a terrible QB can come into Reliant and have a career game against us?

EDIT: Vince Young, Alex Smith, Tim Tebow, Joey Harrington, Kerry Collins, Quin Gray, JAMARCUS RUSSELL. Let that list sink in and then realize that's probably not even half of the terrible QB's who have played against the Texans and looked like Joe Montana. God forbid we bring up what Manning has done to us over the course of a decade.

Texecutioner
05-03-2011, 03:31 PM
I honestly think that a good portion of our turnover problems on defense can be related to not getting consistent pressure on the QB.

There is a lot of truth to this Bong, but we've just had trash at safety since our inception for the most part. I've gone on and one about this for years and it's driven me nuts on how we passed on Michael Griffin that season for Okoye. We also had opportunities where we could have gone after Sharper and Dawkins when they were available in free agency. They wouldn't have been long term solutions, but they would have been nice fill ins and great guys to have in the locker that could have helped the youth on the team. Sharper ended up being DPOY if I'm not mistaken in that season. 12 INT's and had huge plays that won games for the Saints that season.

You're right though, that the pass rush has contributed to the guys we've had as being worse. A lack of pass rush will make any secondary unit worse. The Steelers have never had top notch corners, but they're pass rush has been so damn good that it makes them look better. It's one of the reasons why I never thought Ike Taylor would be a "great" upgrade here since we don't have a pass rush like the Steelers have. He would be an upgrade over what we have though.

El Tejano
05-03-2011, 03:41 PM
There is a lot of truth to this Bong, but we've just had trash at safety since our inception for the most part. I've gone on and one about this for years and it's driven me nuts on how we passed on Michael Griffin that season for Okoye. We also had opportunities where we could have gone after Sharper and Dawkins when they were available in free agency. They wouldn't have been long term solutions, but they would have been nice fill ins and great guys to have in the locker that could have helped the youth on the team. Sharper ended up being DPOY if I'm not mistaken in that season. 12 INT's and had huge plays that won games for the Saints that season.

You're right though, that the pass rush has contributed to the guys we've had as being worse. A lack of pass rush will make any secondary unit worse. The Steelers have never had top notch corners, but they're pass rush has been so damn good that it makes them look better. It's one of the reasons why I never thought Ike Taylor would be a "great" upgrade here since we don't have a pass rush like the Steelers have. He would be an upgrade over what we have though.

True! Jamar Fletcher was considered a much better corner when he played in San Diego.

cland
05-03-2011, 06:39 PM
Assuming the RFA period drops back down to 4 years, I'm looking for Vance Joseph to bring along a Free Agent from the Niners. His old FS, Dashon Goldson, is a free agent and while not a pro-bowler, he ranks as 'good to very good' in pass coverage.

Goldson already knows the system, so can bring some direction with the shorter learning period the CBA conflict has caused. He will also provide a much better safety net for our younger CBs and is young enough to justify a longer term contract.

CloakNNNdagger
05-03-2011, 06:59 PM
Assuming the RFA period drops back down to 4 years, I'm looking for Vance Joseph to bring along a Free Agent from the Niners. His old FS, Dashon Goldson, is a free agent and while not a pro-bowler, he ranks as 'good to very good' in pass coverage.

Goldson already knows the system, so can bring some direction with the shorter learning period the CBA conflict has caused. He will also provide a much better safety net for our younger CBs and is young enough to justify a longer term contract.

He has the height/body of a FS. But he has not developed an interception/breakup prowess. He seems to be a solid tackler. With that in mind, the Niners were seriously considering moving him to STRONG safety while moving Taylor Mays to FS. I have never read about him being specifically referred to as good in pass coverage. He had one decent year in 2009. The pass coverage net is what our CBs will most benefit from.

cland
05-03-2011, 08:19 PM
He has the height/body of a FS. But he has not developed an interception/breakup prowess. He seems to be a solid tackler. With that in mind, the Niners were seriously considering moving him to STRONG safety while moving Taylor Mays to FS. I have never read about him being specifically referred to as good in pass coverage. He had one decent year in 2009. The pass coverage net is what our CBs will most benefit from.

2009 was the first year he started and he had a nice performance (4 ints/3 ffs/6 pds). In 2010, he banged up (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4444/player?r=1) his knee, ankle, and wrist and it bothered him for the first half of the season (sprained an ankle in Game 15 as well.) His numbers were impacted, but coaches still graded him highly on film review (http://http://ninernoise.com/2011/05/03/49ers-free-agents-who-stays-who-goes/).

Just one person's opinion but a quote from this link: (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/604334-nfl-free-agency-2011-top-fives-the-best-available-safeties/page/4) The 26-year-old Goldson has nice coverage skills and good play-making ability, making him a very appealing addition for any team in need of a starting-caliber free safety.

As I mentioned before, I think his familiarity with our defensive scheme (and coach) make him a quick impacting FA pickup.

TexanSam
05-03-2011, 08:44 PM
Will Demps wasn't bad a few years ago when we signed him as a FA during the season. He even made the Pro Bowl as alternate IIRC.

CloakNNNdagger
05-03-2011, 08:54 PM
2009 was the first year he started and he had a nice performance (4 ints/3 ffs/6 pds). In 2010, he banged up (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4444/player?r=1) his knee, ankle, and wrist and it bothered him for the first half of the season (sprained an ankle in Game 15 as well.) His numbers were impacted, but coaches still graded him highly on film review (http://http://ninernoise.com/2011/05/03/49ers-free-agents-who-stays-who-goes/).

Just one person's opinion but a quote from this link: (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/604334-nfl-free-agency-2011-top-fives-the-best-available-safeties/page/4)

As I mentioned before, I think his familiarity with our defensive scheme (and coach) make him a quick impacting FA pickup.

Goldson was tendered..........do you know at what level?

gary
05-03-2011, 09:15 PM
Wilson did OK with the Patriots and was decent when he first got here but age has gotten the best of him now along with maybe our very crappy defense.

badboy
05-03-2011, 09:15 PM
Yes we have had a FS but he has played corner his first two years. I think many will be pleased if Quin is moved to FS and given a game or two to adjust. I see him as a natural safety. No one should be shocked if Wade decides not to ask Smith to spend much money on a FA. This will allow them money for a corner.

devo-x
05-03-2011, 10:11 PM
Here's some of the Texans drafted as Safeties since 2002 according to the Texans wiki

Matt Stevens Safety New England Patriots
Ramon Walker Safety Pittsburgh
Curry Burns Safety Louisville
Glenn Earl Safety Notre Dame
Jammal Lord Safety Nebraska
C.C. Brown Safety Louisiana-Lafayette
Brandon Harrison Safety Stanford
Dominique Barber Safety Minnesota
Troy Nolan Safety Arizona State

Most of these players aren't in the NFL today:foottap:

cland
05-04-2011, 12:32 AM
Goldson was tendered..........do you know at what level?

My understanding is that tendering at this point is basically undefined. The only thing that they could be used for is if a judge rules that the lockout is illegal, and play will continue under the rules of 2010. I also haven't seen any specific draft values or compensation values that the Niners used.

HJam72
05-04-2011, 01:55 AM
Teams who place a low value at certain positions will continue to have a "problem" at those positions (whether they realize that position is the "problem" or not)....until they learn that all of them matter.

I recall many years with this team (seemingly through 2 coaching staffs) having "tweeners" at both safety positions. That used to drive me crazy and, having said that, one might think that Bernard Pollard is just what we needed at SS. I don't know how I feel about BP, but I know that I have always felt that this team REALLY, SERIOUSLY needs to get a good, ball-hawking FS. I don't know if it's Quinn, Nolan, a free agent that we need to pay for, or a high draft pick to groom, but I feel like that is a crucial piece of the puzzle....especially when compared to our draft history, which I will slightly exaggerate by quoting "DT, DE, DT, DT, SS, DT, OLB, DT, DE, DT, DT, DT, DT, DT..."

If it don't work at all after years of trying, TRY SOMETHING ELSE. Heck, this is joking, but we created a great offense while drafting 80% front 7 defense, LOL. I just don't think we are going to fix the secondary by drafting DTs. I just really don't.

Lucky
05-04-2011, 06:29 AM
My understanding is that tendering at this point is basically undefined.
The Texans had tendered Owen Daniels with a 1st round tender, prior to signing him to a long term contract. I couldn't find if Goldson was tendered higher than a minimum tender. Goldson was drafted in the 4th round in 2007.

b0ng
05-04-2011, 08:51 AM
Will Demps wasn't bad a few years ago when we signed him as a FA during the season. He even made the Pro Bowl as alternate IIRC.

I think that more spoke to just how terrible the safety play in the NFL is. "Smoove" Will Demps hasn't had a job in the NFL since after the 2008 season.

EDIT: I think that we do need people in our S spots who are better than "terrible". They don't have to be hall of famers or even pro bowlers, they just need to be able to grasp simple concepts such as "Cover the TE", and "help out the rookie CB's". I have a feeling that we will grab some bodies for the CB and FS spots, but I have no idea if they are going to spend any nominal amount of money to get those guys in here. You'd have to think that Smith is going to go aggressive in FA and grab somebody of note to put back there. Without a good pass rush, we'd need hall of famers back there or it'd be 2010 all over again.

CloakNNNdagger
05-04-2011, 09:11 AM
I think that more spoke to just how terrible the safety play in the NFL is. "Smoove" Will Demps hasn't had a job in the NFL since after the 2008 season.

EDIT: I think that we do need people in our S spots who are better than "terrible". They don't have to be hall of famers or even pro bowlers, they just need to be able to grasp simple concepts such as "Cover the TE", and "help out the rookie CB's". I have a feeling that we will grab some bodies for the CB and FS spots, but I have no idea if they are going to spend any nominal amount of money to get those guys in here. You'd have to think that Smith is going to go aggressive in FA and grab somebody of note to put back there. Without a good pass rush, we'd need hall of famers back there or it'd be 2010 all over again.

I believe that the importance of the free safety position is still being minimized on this team as to its importance. It is the last call of defense on a handful of plays per game........one play alone potentially devastating to the results of a game in the same way that an interception could be to a QB.

disaacks3
05-04-2011, 09:22 AM
I believe that the importance of the free safety position is still being minimized on this team as to its importance. It is the last call of defense on a handful of plays per game........one play alone potentially devastating to the results of a game in the same way that an interception could be to a QB.

Agree 100% - The FS blew lots of big plays last year and our "last line of defense" was about as effective (and mobile) as the Maginot Line.

steelbtexan
05-04-2011, 09:26 AM
The Texans have undervalued the big NT and S positions since their inception and continue to do so.

This is why they have problems stopping the run and have to bring an extra S in the box for help. This has led to big plays because this team has never had a FS that can cover the back end. So that when the CB's get beat deep there's no help.

Bushes solution to this problem was to drop the CB's off 8 yds or so to insure they wouldn't get beat deep. Unfortunately I fell down Jackspon would break on the 1st move and fall down as great WR's like Siryg Ahanatou (SP) would put a double move on him and can you say instant TD.

badboy
05-04-2011, 09:35 AM
I think this team tries to get by with less. I think the gamble with David Carr really shook Bob McNair and he goes for the "safer, less of a splash" guy. I think the team would rather wait and hope for that 4th round or less player to go big like Foster or Quin than go all in for a more risky first round guy. I think this impacted McNair's decision to hire Kubes and Rick SMith, Frank Bush and so forth. This is implied in going with safeties that do a little of both rather than a specialist.

scourge
05-04-2011, 09:37 AM
Have we ever had a good safety?
Marlon McCree - stupid of us to let go.
Marcus Coleman had one good year and then was subpar. He was a much better cb.

BigBull17
05-04-2011, 02:25 PM
I think that more spoke to just how terrible the safety play in the NFL is. "Smoove" Will Demps hasn't had a job in the NFL since after the 2008 season.

EDIT: I think that we do need people in our S spots who are better than "terrible". They don't have to be hall of famers or even pro bowlers, they just need to be able to grasp simple concepts such as "Cover the TE", and "help out the rookie CB's". I have a feeling that we will grab some bodies for the CB and FS spots, but I have no idea if they are going to spend any nominal amount of money to get those guys in here. You'd have to think that Smith is going to go aggressive in FA and grab somebody of note to put back there. Without a good pass rush, we'd need hall of famers back there or it'd be 2010 all over again.

Wait, you mean covering tight ends isn't illegal? I thought it was a penalty.

DocBar
05-04-2011, 03:24 PM
A better question would be have we ever had a real defensive coordinator that knew what he was doing, had a clue about what to look for in position coaches and could design a scheme around his player's strengths. I don't include Capers in this cuz he was the HC of an (I hate this term) expansion team. The answer would be YES. But due to the current BS over billions of dollars, that the bleeping fans spend, he hasn't been able to do much but net the Texans the best draft the have ever possibly had. That includes the '06 draft. Definitely precludes the rest of the drafts.

cland
05-04-2011, 05:10 PM
The Texans have undervalued the big NT and S positions since their inception and continue to do so.


I think it's a bit too early to use the 'continue to do so' with the new Wade Phillips regime. His one-gap 3-4 doesn't require the typical 330lb NT, and the draft had a terrible year for safeties. Now, if FA comes about and nobody is signed at that position I'll agree with you.