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Dime
04-17-2005, 04:59 PM
Folks.. I hear alot about 'DD doesnt have the durability' and we need to pick up benson. Personally, I think we have a back that is very good, even better then DD. Who might you say, Jonathon Wells. Ok... Some might be laughing, but lets look at a few things. Carr was sacked a record amount of times in the first year, and it got little better in the second year before DD made a bit of a impact. Last year, when we went to zone blocking, DD did ok, but when Wells touched the ball, he was showing good vision and pounding the ball. He even would have had a break away TD if not got called back to a penalty on the other size of the field. I think Wells should get a three game test, if he aint producing, he goes back to last string. I think from what I have seen of late though, he will be even better then DD for us.

Wolf
04-17-2005, 05:19 PM
I am not sure

Personally I think Wells got a bad wrap early on after being drafted
no offensive line which led to him being 'shell shocked" and not hitting the holes hard and tip toeing instead of exploding through the hole..he has the size of Eddie George but doesn't deliver the pounding that eddie gave. we still see him tip toe ...

If Wells could get tough and run like DD does (i.e. keep legs moving and keep falling forward instead of back)..It would go a long way with him moving up the depth chart..

One thing I learned about Wells being in the backfield and starting while DD was injured.. Carr had to learn to look elseware to get rid of the ball.. instead of looking at AJ then throwing to DD

Wolf
04-17-2005, 05:26 PM
here is his split stats
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/playerSplits?categoryId=101816

here is davis...
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/playerSplits?categoryId=140815

depressing looking at the stats esp on 1st down and less than 2 (or anydown less than 2 yards to go)

Grid
04-17-2005, 05:26 PM
I would love to give Wells the start in every game this preseason.. lets see what he can do.

Corrosion
04-17-2005, 06:21 PM
I would love to give Wells the start in every game this preseason.. lets see what he can do.


This is a good idea . I think this may be the last shot at being the 2nd RB .
Giving Wells the majority of the work this pre-season would also keep DD fresh for the opener . Wells taking the starting position from DD is just not going to happen . The main reason Wells is still a Texan is that he excells on special teams , this will keep him around the league for quite a few seasons to come .

For those of you complaining about DD's durability issues ..... only 8 backs in the whole of the NFL had more carries last season , only one had more pass receptions . Only 5 backs with 300 or more carries played in 16 games last year . Of the 8 backs with 300+ carries DD and Curtis Martin had the fewest fumbles (2) , all the others had at least 4 ........so you guy's can prepare for another season of complaining about DD . He'll be the starter come opening day.

Wolf
04-17-2005, 06:31 PM
hopefully with permission from Vinny to reprint this ... and I am not saying Benson is the answer,or DD is bad, it is just that teams know how to handle us. last half of his quote is so truthful... we have seen 2 years of it.Nothing against DD but this is the trend... Yet I would like to see DD run behind a line that a center can hold his own and open holes up.
Vinny
I'm hoping Benson falls to us badly. He would totally change this offense. No longer will you see cover-2 shells with the Safeties way back over the top of the CB's 20 yards down field capping our passing game. They will be forced up into the box to defend Bensons inside bashing, opening up the downfield tosses. Davis doesn't force anyone out of their scheme. The way to beat the Texans is to sit back in a cover2 and let the front-7 handle Davis. That would be over to some extent.
http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=8119&page=1&pp=20

thegr8fan
04-17-2005, 08:13 PM
Wells = WHIMP

Only time you saw Wells reel off some good runs last year was cause the other team was devastated with injuries they had their Punter playing MLB. The Punter still tackled Wells for a loss, Wells falling backwards, as USUAL.

keyfro
04-17-2005, 09:12 PM
i'm all for bringing in benson...i think if benson isn't our guy in the first round then capers will probably give wells the majority of snaps during pre-season...we might see some carries split between these two guys...or we might see wells tip toe to the hole again...i admitt last year he looked more aggressive...but maybe that was because he wasn't getting the playing time...what happens when he does is my concern

Dime
04-17-2005, 09:35 PM
Wells = WHIMP

Only time you saw Wells reel off some good runs last year was cause the other team was devastated with injuries they had their Punter playing MLB. The Punter still tackled Wells for a loss, Wells falling backwards, as USUAL.


Rofl... I like to see you say that to his face...

Bah... the line isnt perfect, but better, only fair to give him a chance behind a better line. Zone blocking I believe is the key for Wells.. I think he handles it better then the other formation.

Dime
04-17-2005, 09:39 PM
i'm all for bringing in benson...i think if benson isn't our guy in the first round then capers will probably give wells the majority of snaps during pre-season...we might see some carries split between these two guys...or we might see wells tip toe to the hole again...i admitt last year he looked more aggressive...but maybe that was because he wasn't getting the playing time...what happens when he does is my concern


Honestly, the first year when the o-line was so spread out that fans could have sacked Carr, I would tip toe to the line too so I wouldnt lose me head to a defense end or tackle. He had NO chance. Now the o-line is better (somewhat) and using a different scheme, I just feel he should be given a chance in pre-season to show if he can do it. All i am saying.

ccdude730
04-17-2005, 10:25 PM
i would like to see wells get alot of playing time this preseason also. to say he is a "whimp" is rediculous. i like the way he plays when he is on fire. he did show that he can pound it and run over a few people if given the proper motivation. he also can catch the ball out of the backfield and can run to the outside. if he doesnt challenge DD for carries this season, he is still a standout on special teams and a good backup.

thegr8fan
04-17-2005, 10:35 PM
I like to see you say that to his face I have :shocked

I have no problem with Wells getting almost ALL the snaps in Pre-season. It is preseason after all. Is it going to prove anything about his improved play making ability. Yeah, it is going to prove that even a 3rd string, soon to be practice roster player, can tackle him (Wells falling backwards as usual) without even trying too hard.

Wells couldn't run, with a razor sharp machete, through a wet paper sack that had a big 'X' on the side of the bag and sign saying 'cut here with machete' to escape, if his life depended on it. No O-line in the NFL is going to implant some huevos in him, and until that happens he will always be on the sidelines, where he belongs, IMHO. Right next to the cheerleader's. Who at least have an excuse for no huervos. :shocked

Dime
04-17-2005, 11:19 PM
I have :shocked

I have no problem with Wells getting almost ALL the snaps in Pre-season. It is preseason after all. Is it going to prove anything about his improved play making ability. Yeah, it is going to prove that even a 3rd string, soon to be practice roster player, can tackle him (Wells falling backwards as usual) without even trying too hard.

Wells couldn't run, with a razor sharp machete, through a wet paper sack that had a big 'X' on the side of the bag and sign saying 'cut here with machete' to escape, if his life depended on it. No O-line in the NFL is going to implant some huevos in him, and until that happens he will always be on the sidelines, where he belongs, IMHO. Right next to the cheerleader's. Who at least have an excuse for no huervos. :shocked

I hope Wells does all the snaps in pre-season. This way, if he beats out Hollings for number two, or becomes a good part of our system, I can mess with this guy for the rest of the year for these comments.. :loser

Vinny
04-17-2005, 11:22 PM
Wells does back into traffic a bit much for my taste. Those half-spin moves where he backs into the line are not the trademarks of most power runners.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
04-17-2005, 11:31 PM
Wells does back into traffic a bit much for my taste. Those half-spin moves where he backs into the line are not the trademarks of most power runners.




I was just about to say the same thing. :thumbup

infantrycak
04-17-2005, 11:42 PM
JMO, but Wells will go down as one of the weaker Texans' draft picks and after backing up here, will back up somewhere else and then go quietly into that good night. We can debate how good DD is, but Wells will never be a challenge to him.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
04-17-2005, 11:48 PM
JMO, but Wells will go down as one of the weaker Texans' draft picks and after backing up here, will back up somewhere else and then go quietly into that good night. We can debate how good DD is, but Wells will never be a challenge to him.



Finally something we can agree on. :heh:

Vinny
04-17-2005, 11:50 PM
hey, hey, HEY now....no agreements around here...ya hear me?

thegr8fan
04-17-2005, 11:53 PM
I hope Wells does all the snaps in pre-season. This way, if he beats out Hollings for number two, or becomes a good part of our system, I can mess with this guy for the rest of the year for these comments.. where you been, I been saying this for about 3 years now. So far, only one with black Crow feathers sticking out of their mouth's have been the rah-rah Wells supporters. You better hope the Texans don't draft a RB that takes Well's third string spot, as long as you are throwing out hope's and wish's there, Dime.:hmmm:

And taking Hollings spot ain't exactly a sign of improvement. Especially since Hollings doesn't seem to be improved enough himself to even keep the #2 spot consistantly without being injured. Heck, Wells even started a few games last year. Course that is what happens when you are the only RB on the roster, not on the injured list.

I hope Wells is saving some of those paychecks for his 'regular job' hunting after next season. Cause he sure ain't going to have a job in the NFL if he keeps doing ballareeni type dancing in the backfield. :shocked

infantrycak
04-17-2005, 11:53 PM
Finally something we can agree on. :heh:

Danger Will Robinson!!!! Shoot, now I think Wells will be a perenial pro-bowler. :woot

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
04-17-2005, 11:55 PM
Infantry agreed with me first. :cool:

infantrycak
04-18-2005, 12:03 AM
Infantry agreed with me first. :cool:

Even a blind hog...

and by the way, in this scenario, I am casting myself as a truffle. Ugly, but valuable.

That would make you the...

TexansTrueFan
04-18-2005, 02:36 AM
yeah theres no way wells takes the starting spot from D.D, he will be a solid back up for us or even another team but i dont see him as ever beign a starter in the nfl !

threetoedpete
04-18-2005, 07:54 AM
Rofl... I like to see you say that to his face...

Bah... the line isnt perfect, but better, only fair to give him a chance behind a better line. Zone blocking I believe is the key for Wells.. I think he handles it better then the other formation.

IMHO, we've seen what he can do time to move on. Second day pick will solve the Well's issue. A tennitive power back. Yeah that's going to work.

O.G.
04-18-2005, 08:10 AM
If we are unable to get C. Benson, who do you all think would be a good back to pick up in this years draft? What do you think about Eric Shelton of Louisville?

D-ReK
04-18-2005, 08:10 AM
Wasn't Wells the first RB we had get to 100 yards in a game last year? He'll probably never be a starter here, but I think he could develop into a decent change of pace, short yardage, or short term starter for us, plus he's good on special teams...

D-ReK
04-18-2005, 08:16 AM
If we are unable to get C. Benson, who do you all think would be a good back to pick up in this years draft? What do you think about Eric Shelton of Louisville?

If we don't get Benson, then Shelton would be the next guy I see us targeting, since he is relatively comparable to Benson...If we wanted to go with a second day guy, I think Kay-Jay Harris, 6'0" 243 4.56, or Brandon Jacobs, 6'4" 267 4.59 and was supposedly higher on Auburn's depth chart than Ronnie Brown before he transferred, would be good options...

threetoedpete
04-18-2005, 08:23 AM
I like Shelton. I think you can get the same thing from Broughton out of the Citidel. Just a big bod to play special teams and slam the line in short yard stuations.

Might be true ref, but even with the poor line, looked to me like he was looking for the softest grass to land on. Interesting to see how many times Wells was stuffed on third and short. That's his rice bowl. My instincts tells me the stats would not look good. I stand to be corrected.
I like those guys also Ref. The bottom line is DD needs a capable back up. If we take a back up RB, on the second day will be interesting to see who is in the final cuts in August. My money says Wells. If they take one on the first day my best guess is the Hollings experiment is over. JMHO.

D-ReK
04-18-2005, 08:42 AM
Upon further review, I'll probably have to retract my statement that he could make a good short yardage back since on 3rd and short (less than 2) last year, he had 5 attempts for 9 yards with a long of 8...Not too promising...

Dime
04-18-2005, 09:58 AM
Upon further review, I'll probably have to retract my statement that he could make a good short yardage back since on 3rd and short (less than 2) last year, he had 5 attempts for 9 yards with a long of 8...Not too promising...

Look at DD's.. his is worse.

D-ReK
04-18-2005, 10:03 AM
Look at DD's.. his is worse.

On 3rd and less than 2, DD had 15 attempts for 85 yards (5.7 YPC), a long of 23, 2 TDs, 10 first downs, and only 2 stops for loss...Looks pretty good to me...

O.G.
04-18-2005, 12:46 PM
If we don't get Benson, then Shelton would be the next guy I see us targeting, since he is relatively comparable to Benson...If we wanted to go with a second day guy, I think Kay-Jay Harris, 6'0" 243 4.56, or Brandon Jacobs, 6'4" 267 4.59 and was supposedly higher on Auburn's depth chart than Ronnie Brown before he transferred, would be good options...

Cool, here is the info on Eric Shelton for those who haven't seen it. Got it off ESPN. Not too bad at all:

Eric Shelton (Louisville)
Vital statistics: 6 feet 1, 246 pounds, 4.53 in the 40.
Numbers game: Began his career at Florida State in 2001 and transferred to Louisville the next season because of crowded Seminoles depth chart. In three college seasons, ran for 1,858 yards and 30 touchdowns on 341 carries. Never rushed for 1,000 yards in a season, and biggest year was in 2004, when he gained 938 yards. Scored 20 touchdowns, many in short-yardage situations, last year. Has only 12 career starts, including just five in 2004. Former all-state track performer in high school.

Upside: Huge, thick body, but definitely a tailback and not a fullback. Patient runner who demonstrates innate ability to let blocking develop in front of him before turning upfield. Good vision and balance and doesn't get knocked off his feet, or driven sideways, by the first contact. Deceptively athletic, can turn his hips and redirect; flashes nice quickness.

Downside: A late bloomer who played mostly in a rotation system in college and has never carried the ball more than 166 times in a season. Not very elusive, won't get to the second level very often, yet isn't a pure power runner, either. Absorbs more hits than he should. Not polished as a receiver or blocker. Past neck problems bear examination.

The dish: An intriguing guy who is visiting with a lot of teams. Scouts will have to project just how big a workload he can handle.

thegr8fan
04-18-2005, 01:25 PM
Upon further review, I'll probably have to retract my statement that he could make a good short yardage back since on 3rd and short (less than 2) last year, he had 5 attempts for 9 yards with a long of 8...Not too promising... just like I said, a Rottweiler sized guy with the heart of a Cha-wa-wa. :whistle:

Grid
04-18-2005, 01:29 PM
There have been RBs that struggled their first few seasons but became good eventually.

I dont think wells will take the start from DD.. that would take quite a bit of improvement.. but with his special teams play and his size.. if he can be an ADEQUATE runner.. then there is no reason he could not stay as our #3 back for the rest of his career.

Hervoyel
04-18-2005, 01:37 PM
If your opinion of Jonathan Wells was completely formed in 2002 and 2003 then I think you're just wrong.

There's more to him than what you saw trying to run behind that mess we had blocking in 2002. Answer a question for me if you think Wells has nothing in the way of potential to offer. Did you still think David Carr was a great QB, or could become a great QB after he took 76 sacks and finished far down the list of QB's in 2002? If you did (and we pretty much all did) then how come Jonathan Wells is so worthless as a RB?

Wells averaged over 5 yards a carry at Ohio State his senior year with 1294 yards and seven hundred-yard games. He can play in the NFL.

He's not a franchise back and he's not going to create plays when there's nothing there but he is returning to his former self. After 2002 Wells got demoted, watched Stacy Mack come in and be handed an improved line and then put out numbers that impressed nobody. Mack didn't look much better than Wells IMO. If Davis hadn't emerged I believe Wells would have finished up 2003 and looked pretty reasonable doing it. To his credit Wells became a real team player. He learned his role and dedicated himself to special teams until an opportunity came along. Last season he looked very good subbing for Davis.

I think we've got our change of pace back if we stick with Domanick Davis as our starter. If we get to draft one of the big three this year then sure, changes get made and Wells might be the odd man out but I'm not unhappy with what he's done by a longshot and niether should anyone else be.

Wells is going to have a job in the NFL and when he gets some carries he's going to do well. In relief I can see him having a season not unlike the one Stacy Mack had while subbing for Fred Taylor a few years back. Enough production to make some people wonder if he might be the answer. Like Mack he's not going to be that guy but teams need backups too.

thegr8fan
04-18-2005, 01:58 PM
only time my decision on Wells has fluctuated even slightly was when he actually fell FORWARD a couple of times last season. Truthfully, if he grows up and acts like the Large Sized RB he COULD be, I would gladly change my opinion of him. But a couple of games, in 3 years, of actually acting like he belongs in the NFL and not on the Cheerleading squad ain't gonna make me go, hmmm.

I don't care what his college stats are. They are like comparing apples and oranges. College stats get you a draft position in the NFL. He got his, and was drafted. Since then he ain't showed diddly squat of any type of actual RB talent, or potential.

He's not a franchise back and he's not going to create plays when there's nothing there but he is returning to his former self. What former self? ONLY former self he has shown won't get him a position on any NFL team for very long. You said it yourself, he isn't a franchise back, and he DEFINITELY won't make a play when there isn't a HUGE hole to run through. ANY Benchwarming RB in the NFL could be described in that manner. We could draft a 6th or 7th round pick to fill those kinds of needs.

Wells is gonna have to earn a reputation as a bruising type back, it ain't gonna be handed to him. And you don't earn that kind of reputation by falling backwards everytime a safety runs up to you and says 'Boo'. When/IF Wells ever decides to change his tu-tu and put on some football pads and act like the big back he was drafted to be, you will see me GLADLY posting how I have changed my opinion and Wells has truly became a GOOD backup RB.

Until that happens the only Texans uniform I think he SHOULD be wearing has a skirt on it and is commanly referred to as a CHEERLEADER. :shocked

edo783
04-18-2005, 03:49 PM
only time my decision on Wells has fluctuated even slightly was when he actually fell FORWARD a couple of times last season. Truthfully, if he grows up and acts like the Large Sized RB he COULD be, I would gladly change my opinion of him. But a couple of games, in 3 years, of actually acting like he belongs in the NFL and not on the Cheerleading squad ain't gonna make me go, hmmm.

I don't care what his college stats are. They are like comparing apples and oranges. College stats get you a draft position in the NFL. He got his, and was drafted. Since then he ain't showed diddly squat of any type of actual RB talent, or potential.

What former self? ONLY former self he has shown won't get him a position on any NFL team for very long. You said it yourself, he isn't a franchise back, and he DEFINITELY won't make a play when there isn't a HUGE hole to run through. ANY Benchwarming RB in the NFL could be described in that manner. We could draft a 6th or 7th round pick to fill those kinds of needs.

Wells is gonna have to earn a reputation as a bruising type back, it ain't gonna be handed to him. And you don't earn that kind of reputation by falling backwards everytime a safety runs up to you and says 'Boo'. When/IF Wells ever decides to change his tu-tu and put on some football pads and act like the big back he was drafted to be, you will see me GLADLY posting how I have changed my opinion and Wells has truly became a GOOD backup RB.

Until that happens the only Texans uniform I think he SHOULD be wearing has a skirt on it and is commanly referred to as a CHEERLEADER. :shocked

Sooo, let me get this straight, you don't seem to be real high on Wells???? :hmmm:

TexansNeedRBin05
04-18-2005, 04:02 PM
I think everyone knows how I feel! (if you dont look at my name!) I am agreeing with Vinny I PRAY TO GOD THAT BENSON IS AT 13 AND WERE SMART ENOUGH TO TAKE HIM!(or brown or williams for that matter) :thumbup I knew I said I wouldnt say anything about the RB suitation but I am going to. Wells is worse that Davis! and I think Davis is terrible. Dont give me this no O-line **** they have the same O-line and Davis does better. Course I love are O-Line! :cool:

Dime
04-18-2005, 05:56 PM
only time my decision on Wells has fluctuated even slightly was when he actually fell FORWARD a couple of times last season. Truthfully, if he grows up and acts like the Large Sized RB he COULD be, I would gladly change my opinion of him. But a couple of games, in 3 years, of actually acting like he belongs in the NFL and not on the Cheerleading squad ain't gonna make me go, hmmm.

I don't care what his college stats are. They are like comparing apples and oranges. College stats get you a draft position in the NFL. He got his, and was drafted. Since then he ain't showed diddly squat of any type of actual RB talent, or potential.

What former self? ONLY former self he has shown won't get him a position on any NFL team for very long. You said it yourself, he isn't a franchise back, and he DEFINITELY won't make a play when there isn't a HUGE hole to run through. ANY Benchwarming RB in the NFL could be described in that manner. We could draft a 6th or 7th round pick to fill those kinds of needs.

Wells is gonna have to earn a reputation as a bruising type back, it ain't gonna be handed to him. And you don't earn that kind of reputation by falling backwards everytime a safety runs up to you and says 'Boo'. When/IF Wells ever decides to change his tu-tu and put on some football pads and act like the big back he was drafted to be, you will see me GLADLY posting how I have changed my opinion and Wells has truly became a GOOD backup RB.

Until that happens the only Texans uniform I think he SHOULD be wearing has a skirt on it and is commanly referred to as a CHEERLEADER. :shocked


Looks like someone has Well's envy.

thegr8fan
04-18-2005, 06:56 PM
Looks like someone has Well's envy. ROFLMAO. and they say sarcasm is a lost form of humor. :heh:

DocBar
04-18-2005, 07:11 PM
This is a good idea . I think this may be the last shot at being the 2nd RB .
Giving Wells the majority of the work this pre-season would also keep DD fresh for the opener . Wells taking the starting position from DD is just not going to happen . The main reason Wells is still a Texan is that he excells on special teams , this will keep him around the league for quite a few seasons to come .

For those of you complaining about DD's durability issues ..... only 8 backs in the whole of the NFL had more carries last season , only one had more pass receptions . Only 5 backs with 300 or more carries played in 16 games last year . Of the 8 backs with 300+ carries DD and Curtis Martin had the fewest fumbles (2) , all the others had at least 4 ........so you guy's can prepare for another season of complaining about DD . He'll be the starter come opening day.
ummm....DD had quite a case of fumble-itis early last year...4 fumbles, four lost. I haven't checked the rest of the stats yet.

Wolf
04-18-2005, 07:27 PM
I have to agree with herv an gr8....

Wells has Eddie George body but doesn't use it...

I stand by my statement. IMO ..Wells was shell shocked behind our line in 2002.. He still doesn't have confidence in that...He doesn't hit the holes with authority like he should... If he would run like DD (fall forward and keep legs churning) ...i'd be as happy as a pig in slop...

Again as Herv...stated.. Wells isn't going to be a franchise back, and in my eyes DD isn't going to be either... Why? because Franchise backs make a defense change their gameplan when the running gets going... Way it is....(I got to go with Vinny's take) ....Defenses double on AJ and let the front 7 handle DD

DocBar
04-18-2005, 07:35 PM
I would think that 50% of the offense going through Davis means that the defenses are geared towards DD and tempting someone other than him or Johnson to beat them. With Johnson doubled all the time, that leaves 7-9 defenders to knock the snot out of DD. I have to question Wells' desire at this point.RB in the NFL is ROUGH to say the least. If he doesn't want to take(or deliver) the hits, maybe he should volunteer for full time special teams like Bill Bates of the Cowboys or Steve Tasker and let another back get in the mix.

infantrycak
04-18-2005, 10:23 PM
Wells isn't going to be a franchise back, and in my eyes DD isn't going to be either... Why? because Franchise backs make a defense change their gameplan when the running gets going...

OK this is the third time I will make this point (and maybe the last, then again, maybe not), maybe someone will provide a counter this time. Between the starting RB and #1 WR someone will always be better. AJ is not just good, he is freakishly elite. The only limitation on his stats are how good the OL and QB behind him are. The obvious result (well obvious IMO) is he will always be the focus of the defense so the idea that the RB is not good/franchise, whatever term you want to use, because the D doesn't shift its focus to the RB is just silly.

DocBar
04-18-2005, 10:47 PM
UNCLE!!!!!!! You have proven your point!!!!! LOL

Wolf
04-18-2005, 11:10 PM
OK this is the third time I will make this point (and maybe the last, then again, maybe not), maybe someone will provide a counter this time. Between the starting RB and #1 WR someone will always be better. AJ is not just good, he is freakishly elite. The only limitation on his stats are how good the OL and QB behind him are. The obvious result (well obvious IMO) is he will always be the focus of the defense so the idea that the RB is not good/franchise, whatever term you want to use, because the D doesn't shift its focus to the RB is just silly.

you answered my statement.. we need an upgrade at RB or WR#2. the whole offense is dependant on each other... AJ is dependant on DD... and also Bradford.. 2 out of 3 fail and AJ is still good.. eventhough defenses key on him full time...so we need an upgrade at RB and WR#2..

want more proof .... see Alvin Harper.. he benefited because of Smith and Irvin.. when he left...scrub.

BTW you can't tell me if you had an Alexander at RB (for example) it wouldn't take pressure off of AJ

TexansTrueFan
04-18-2005, 11:13 PM
depends if alexander could produce behind our O-Line or not, i mean the more time carr has the more open our recievers will get, just like manning, his recievers always seem to be open !

Wolf
04-18-2005, 11:18 PM
this could go back and forth.. but isn't our OL considered better run blockers than pass blockers?

Wolf
04-18-2005, 11:19 PM
OK this is the third time I will make this point (and maybe the last, then again, maybe not), maybe someone will provide a counter this time. Between the starting RB and #1 WR someone will always be better. AJ is not just good, he is freakishly elite. The only limitation on his stats are how good the OL and QB behind him are. The obvious result (well obvious IMO) is he will always be the focus of the defense so the idea that the RB is not good/franchise, whatever term you want to use, because the D doesn't shift its focus to the RB is just silly.


I see your point.. Earl Campbell had a hard time opening things up for Kenny B and Mike R.

infantrycak
04-18-2005, 11:20 PM
you answered my statement.. we need an upgrade at RB or WR#2. the whole offense is dependant on each other... AJ is dependant on DD... and also Bradford.. 2 out of 3 fail and AJ is still good.. eventhough defenses key on him full time...so we need an upgrade at RB and WR#2..

I agree, but IMO upgrading the #2 WR is easier than upgrading the RB. Anyone want to seriously argue Bradford is a better WR than DD is RB?

BTW you can't tell me if you had an Alexander at RB (for example) it wouldn't take pressure off of AJ

Well actually I can. I have used Clinton Portis as an example several times in a negative way. Nonetheless, IMO he is a very good RB. But, behind our line I am not sure he would have done substantially better (he certainly didn't do better behind Washington's OL). Go to the Seahawks' MB and their fans think Alexander is a soft runner (doesn't finish off his runs strongly) who only capitalizes on what his OL gives him. Think that kind of RB is really going to excel here and demand special attention?

DocBar
04-18-2005, 11:21 PM
you answered my statement.. we need an upgrade at RB or WR#2. the whole offense is dependant on each other... AJ is dependant on DD... and also Bradford.. 2 out of 3 fail and AJ is still good.. eventhough defenses key on him full time...so we need an upgrade at RB and WR#2..

want more proof .... see Alvin Harper.. he benefited because of Smith and Irvin.. when he left...scrub.

BTW you can't tell me if you had an Alexander at RB (for example) it wouldn't take pressure off of AJ
IMO Armstrong seems like he has potential #2 WR ability. He has speed, toughness and makes all the circus catches. I think Gaffney's biggest problem is being under utelized. If we stay at #13 and the BPA is one of the top receivers and one of the top OLB's, I say go D and see how the O-line does with a solid year together under its belt. That alone will allow Carr to make more( and better) reads so that one of our other receivers can show #2 ability. Dallas also had one of the most dominant O-lines of all time when Irving and Co. was doing all that damage. Might be a link in there somewhere.

Wolf
04-18-2005, 11:24 PM
I agree, but IMO upgrading the #2 WR is easier than upgrading the RB. Anyone want to seriously argue Bradford is a better WR than DD is RB?



Well actually I can. I have used Clinton Portis as an example several times in a negative way. Nonetheless, IMO he is a very good RB. But, behind our line I am not sure he would have done substantially better (he certainly didn't do better behind Washington's OL). Go to the Seahawks' MB and their fans think Alexander is a soft runner (doesn't finish off his runs strongly) who only capitalizes on what his OL gives him. Think that kind of RB is really going to excel here and demand special attention?
very true... Clinton would be horrible behind this line... I also feel if Wells and Davis were switched in the drafting days.. (Davis in 2002 and wells in 2003) peeps on this board would love wells.. Only because our OL was better later (2003 ) than early on(2002).. it is the Billy Miller syndrome.. (I like billy) ..but in 2002 he was the best we have ever seen in a Texan uniform)...much like DD right now.. (don't know why people have an infatuation with 1000 yards being it IS a milestone, it isn't what it used to be)

Wolf
04-18-2005, 11:27 PM
IMO Armstrong seems like he has potential #2 WR ability. He has speed, toughness and makes all the circus catches. I think Gaffney's biggest problem is being under utelized. If we stay at #13 and the BPA is one of the top receivers and one of the top OLB's, I say go D and see how the O-line does with a solid year together under its belt. That alone will allow Carr to make more( and better) reads so that one of our other receivers can show #2 ability. Dallas also had one of the most dominant O-lines of all time when Irving and Co. was doing all that damage. Might be a link in there somewhere.
agreed Dallas had (if not the best) OL in the history of football .... Emmitt can thank his record to that being Barry is the best but that is another story).... but Alvin was a good #2 WR with the cowboys and left to go to TB (I believe) and then Washington.. never panned out.. after riding the coattails of Irving.

DocBar
04-18-2005, 11:33 PM
very true... Clinton would be horrible behind this line... I also feel if Wells and Davis were switched in the drafting days.. (Davis in 2002 and wells in 2003) peeps on this board would love wells.. Only because our OL was better later (2003 ) than early on(2002).. it is the Billy Miller syndrome.. (I like billy) ..but in 2002 he was the best we have ever seen in a Texan uniform)...much like DD right now.. (don't know why people have an infatuation with 1000 yards being it IS a milestone, it isn't what it used to be)
Very good points made. I'm gonna keep making my same one. An O-line with some continuity(along with better play) will make the entire O better. You could have Walter Payton or Jim Brown the last 3 yrs and they would have struggled. And IMO, 1,000 yds is almost average these days. The benchmark should be closer to 1,500. That's an outstanding year for an RB.
REMEMBER: OFFENSE MAKES ESPN, DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS
:howdy:

infantrycak
04-18-2005, 11:34 PM
I also feel if Wells and Davis were switched in the drafting days.. (Davis in 2002 and wells in 2003) peeps on this board would love wells.. Only because our OL was better later (2003 ) than early on(2002)..

FA Stacy Mack didn't think the 2003 OL was so special. Sorry, but (and I like Wells on special teams and he certainly ran much, much harder in 2004 than previously) Wells in whatever year has not and never will be a threat to DD. DD is far shiftier, better receiver and hits as hard or harder than Wells does even though smaller.

(don't know why people have an infatuation with 1000 yards being it IS a milestone, it isn't what it used to be)

Is 1000 yds what it used to be when the season was 12 games?--of course not. But then again DD is the 19th RB ever, out of 1500+ RB's to start his career with two 1000 yd season--all except one (who had a 14 game season and then 16 game season) came during the 16 game era by the way. Is A 1000 yd season a milestone?--maybe not, but then again, doing something 1480 RB's who have made it to the NFL level have not might be considered a milestone.

DocBar
04-18-2005, 11:42 PM
FA Stacy Mack didn't think the 2003 OL was so special. Sorry, but (and I like Wells on special teams and he certainly ran much, much harder in 2004 than previously) Wells in whatever year has not and never will be a threat to DD. DD is far shiftier, better receiver and hits as hard or harder than Wells does even though smaller.



Is 1000 yds what it used to be when the season was 12 games?--of course not. But then again DD is the 19th RB ever, out of 1500+ RB's to start his career with two 1000 yd season--all except one (who had a 14 game season and then 16 game season) came during the 16 game era by the way. Is A 1000 yd season a milestone?--maybe not, but then again, doing something 1480 RB's who have made it to the NFL level have not might be considered a milestone.
Nobody thought Stacy Mack was all that special either. I'm also not trying to diminish what DD did in his 1st 2 years, but how many backs ran for over 1,000 yards last year? I have no idea....haven't checked the stats. IMO, 1,000 yds has been the benchmark for elite backs during a full season. I don't feel that it is a legitimate benchmark for that in this era. And unless some Aggies(or anyone else) light a bonfire under Wells, he'll never have the intensity to challenge DD.

Wolf
04-18-2005, 11:42 PM
FA Stacy Mack didn't think the 2003 OL was so special. Sorry, but (and I like Wells on special teams and he certainly ran much, much harder in 2004 than previously) Wells in whatever year has not and never will be a threat to DD. DD is far shiftier, better receiver and hits as hard or harder than Wells does even though smaller.



Is 1000 yds what it used to be when the season was 12 games?--of course not. But then again DD is the 19th RB ever, out of 1500+ RB's to start his career with two 1000 yd season--all except one (who had a 14 game season and then 16 game season) came during the 16 game era by the way. Is A 1000 yd season a milestone?--maybe not, but then again, doing something 1480 RB's who have made it to the NFL level have not might be considered a milestone.

I agree. Wells for his size does NOT pound people like you would think he would
I am not knocking DD...This is an OL issue.. we get into too many 3rd and long were we basically do a draw play..we get a lot of yards there. I am sure many teams do that.. I am not knocking DD.. but we get a lot of yards off of 3rd an long. or 2nd and long.
And that can be said for many backs I am sure.

DocBar
04-18-2005, 11:47 PM
DD is a VERY tough runner when healthy. Let's hope for improved O-line play to see if he can stay that way all year and also hope Derrek Johnson falls to #13. LOL.....I really like the guy

infantrycak
04-19-2005, 12:05 AM
IMO, 1,000 yds has been the benchmark for elite backs during a full season. I don't feel that it is a legitimate benchmark for that in this era. And unless some Aggies(or anyone else) light a bonfire under Wells, he'll never have the intensity to challenge DD.

Don't get me wrong--I certainly don't think DD has proven himself to be an elite RB, BUT just as a way of perspective, he has done something very few RB's have done--back to back 1000 yd seasons to start their careers--19 of 1500 is pretty rare atmosphere.

Something I am curious about. Lot's of folks seem down on DD. What would DD have gotten behind the KC or Denver OL's the past two years? JMO, but those OL's are worth at least 200 yds a season to any RB. So (since 1000 yds isn't good enough) would anyone be arguing DD was a 3rd down back if he had started on one of those teams with 1231 yds and 1388 yds? I'm not buying it.

DocBar
04-19-2005, 12:11 AM
Don't get me wrong--I certainly don't think DD has proven himself to be an elite RB, BUT just as a way of perspective, he has done something very few RB's have done--back to back 1000 yd seasons to start their careers--19 of 1500 is pretty rare atmosphere.

Something I am curious about. Lot's of folks seem down on DD. What would DD have gotten behind the KC or Denver OL's the past two years? JMO, but those OL's are worth at least 200 yds a season to any RB. So (since 1000 yds isn't good enough) would anyone be arguing DD was a 3rd down back if he had started on one of those teams with 1231 yds and 1388 yds? I'm not buying it.
VERY good point. I happen to like DD a lot. Few current RBs I would trade him for. As for DD on a team with a good O-line, He would excel and be in the yardages you mentioned. DD isn't the problem. Being an expansion team is the main contributing factor here. We're going in the right direction, regardless of John Lopez's opinion.

outofhnd
04-19-2005, 12:37 AM
its also a TE issue as well people we give the play away with the personnel we line up because niether TE could block and catch well, they had to come in and out which tipped defenses off what the playcall was going to be.

We need a TE that can play 85% of the plays so that defenses are less clued into what play we are calling.

When Miller was out there it was a large chance we would pass I think our line is ok but we need to disguise playcalling with 1 base personnel formation. that means a TE that can both block and catch the pass. Then we will run better and AJ won't be doubled because what may look like a run play was actually play action and now AJ is 1 on 1 with a corner because the safety cheated into the box or bit on the fake. when miller was out there safeties were not going to bite because miller isnt out there for run plays.

Wolf
04-19-2005, 01:00 AM
DD runs harder than Wells can't argue that.

but based on averages.. and being people are not high on Wells..give Wells the 302 carries that DD had.. well that means based on Wells 3.6 yards a carry.. he would have 1087 yards last season... compared to Dd's 1188 .... not much difference between the two...

I am not saying Wells is great or DD is bad (dd catches the ball very well and deserves the starting spot).. I am just putting in perspective that not much is different between the two...

Wells could get a 1000 yards (based on averages) out of this offense

DocBar
04-19-2005, 07:22 AM
DD runs harder than Wells can't argue that.

but based on averages.. and being people are not high on Wells..give Wells the 302 carries that DD had.. well that means based on Wells 3.6 yards a carry.. he would have 1087 yards last season... compared to Dd's 1188 .... not much difference between the two...

I am not saying Wells is great or DD is bad (dd catches the ball very well and deserves the starting spot).. I am just putting in perspective that not much is different between the two...

Wells could get a 1000 yards (based on averages) out of this offense
Isn't Wells like 5 feet taller than DD?? And a north/south rusher?

michaelm
04-19-2005, 10:18 AM
Upon further review, I'll probably have to retract my statement that he could make a good short yardage back since on 3rd and short (less than 2) last year, he had 5 attempts for 9 yards with a long of 8...Not too promising...

where do these stats come from? I'm not questioning them, just wondering where to find stats broken down like that. I haven't even tried looking for them, but it made me curious...

Davis37
04-19-2005, 10:21 AM
Isn't Wells like 5 feet taller than DD?? And a north/south rusher?

Wells is a bigger back but is only a south runner... Once he gets to the line he turns his back to the defenders and drops like a brick. He did have like 2 good games last year tho, Ill give him that. :loser

Hervoyel
04-19-2005, 11:21 AM
Wells could get a 1000 yards (based on averages) out of this offense


Yes he could. I believe that says as much about the blocking last season as it does about the running backs.

infantrycak
04-19-2005, 11:44 AM
where do these stats come from? I'm not questioning them, just wondering where to find stats broken down like that. I haven't even tried looking for them, but it made me curious...

If you go to any of the sports sites like NFL.com, ESPN.com, etc. they have stats for the players. There are usually buttons for situational stats and/or split stats.

For example: Yahoo-splits (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5985/splits)

Situational stats (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5985/situational)