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GP
07-21-2011, 10:30 PM
Peter King is painting a GRIM picture, guys.

This article is basically saying the players are supremely pissed off, especially at what COULD be an extra little "new" item the owners stashed into the agreement. Then there is an issue with several smaller items, like drug testing rules, etc., that the players are up in arms about--Not because it's been decided and they disagree, but rather because those items will STILL need to be negotiated and decided upon even with a new agreement in place.

It's easier to get 31 teams to vote yes than it is 1900 players.

Here's the article (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/07/21/labor-mayhem/index.html?eref=twitter_feed), and I don't know if Peter King is sensationalizing this stuff or if the players and De Smith are genuinely hacked off:

ATLANTA -- In less than two hours Thursday, euphoria over the 38-month labor dispute between National Football League players and owners being over began turning sour.

At 7:02 p.m. ET at an airport hotel here, after the league's owners voted 31-0 with one abstention (surprise -- the Raiders balked), the full roster of owners gave a standing ovation to Commissioner Roger Goodell and the negotiating team that got the deal done. But then USA Today reported the players were rejecting the deal, the union denied it, and SI's Jim Trotter reported union boss DeMaurice Smith emailed his executive board: "There is no agreement between the NFL and the players at this time."

That's the kind of day Thursday was, a crazy one with more twists and turns than a Stieg Larsson novel. And it's not over yet.

There were two long conversations between Smith and Goodell, an attempt to build a bridge that would result in a dual vote late in the day -- first by the owners here, next by the board of player representatives from the union offices in Washington -- resulting in a deal. The league, attempting to end a 132-day lockout of players and to stave off the first missed regular-season games in the league since 1987, slam-dunked the ratification of a 10-year collective bargaining agreement with players.

"We have crafted a long-term agreement that is good for the game of football," Goodell said 20 minutes after the vote was taken. "We are anxious to get back to football. It is time to get back to football. That is what everybody here wants to do."

"It's been long, it's been at times very, very difficult," the chair of the league's labor committee, Carolina owner Jerry Richardson, said of the long negotiation period. "We are confident the players and the teams have arrived at a good place."

Unlike the last deal, there would be no opt-outs in this deal. If approved by the players, there would be no labor interruptions, should the players ratify the agreement, until at least the summer of 2021.

Cries of "Hallelujah" could be heard throughout the land. Then just plain crying could be heard. Soon after the vote, player sources began saying they felt the deal had been shoved down their throats by the owners. Though the ownership side said every point had been discussed at length with the players, Smith, in the email Trotter saw, said otherwise. He [De Smith] wrote of the owners: "They apparently approved a supplemental revenue sharing proposal. Obviously, we have not been a part of those discussions. As you know ... issues that need to be collectively bargained remain open. Other issues such as workers compensation, economic issues and end of deal terms remain unresolved."

It sounded very much like the good-feeling balloon was bursting, but as of 9 p.m. ET, players were still on the conference call and the final result uncertain.

"I have no comment," said Dallas owner Jerry Jones, one of the last owners to leave the hotel. (translation: Jerry is pissed off -- Edit by GP)

How could he? The entire agreement was in limbo.

(Here's the scary part -- Edit by GP) Owners gave the decertified union until Wednesday to recertify, or else the deal would be pulled. Apparently, the players won't need until Wednesday to decide. If they weren't going to vote to kill it Thursday night -- FOX's Jay Glazer reported that was so -- there appeared to be significant opposition to it.

The rules the owners agreed to would have canceled the first preseason game of the year -- the Hall of Fame Game between St. Louis and Chicago Aug. 7 -- but kept the rest of the $800 million preseason intact. (That's how much revenue is generated by the preseason, a management source said.) If the players were to ratify the agreement, team facilities would open Saturday, undrafted rookies could be signed beginning Sunday at 2 p.m. ET, and the official league year would begin Wednesday at 2 p.m. ET, with free-agency kicking off then.

In another win for the owners, NFL legal counsel Jeff Pash said there be would no judicial oversight of this collective bargaining agreement by the federal judiciary, as there was in the last CBA, when owners were angered by several decisions by a federal judge, David Doty. Now appeals would be made in the more traditional ways of sports leagues-through independent special masters.

But then the monkey wrench got thrown in. The players had to recertify as a union to officially end the stalemate because the NFL can't institute important terms of the deal like a drug policy or disciplinary tenets without the players having a collective bargaining unit. That was part of the owners' vote -- that all unsigned players are free to sign with NFL teams, but with the proviso that if players do not approve the deal by Wednesday, the contracts wouldn't be valid.

A weekend of mayhem appears certain. That's the only certainty on the immediate horizon for the NFL.

EllisUnit
07-21-2011, 10:34 PM
:hankpalm: how come in a way I'm not surprised. I feel like someone just stole my new car i just drove off the lot :(

GP
07-21-2011, 10:44 PM
For some reason, I figured the owners would rush to present "a deal," and then put the spotlight on the players and make the players appear to be "on the clock" in the perception of the fans.

Another P.R. move, IMO. It's the owners crossing the finish line, high-fiving each other, getting that image seared into our minds...and now they're going to trash talk (in subtle ways) and essentially act like the players are just dragging their feet on accepting the deal.

I was under the impression that both sides were crafting the deal, together, via their lawyers, and then it would present situation where a final document is produced that each side would have to AGREE is representative/reflective of what was crafted for the past month or so.

But Peter King is saying that De Smith found something NOT originally agreed upon by his side (an item of "supplemental revenue sharing") according to the words of De Smith.

All I can hope for is that De Smith and his crew are so tired that they are mis-interpreting some language, and maybe it's just a mixup or bad language in the crafting of the legal mumbo jumbo. In short: He's trying to make triple-sure that the players are not getting hosed without knowing it.

I can see how he's trying to be very strict about it. His reputation is on the line for the next 10 years if the owners go "Nanny nanny boo boo! We tricked you!" on certain parts of the "deal that's good for football."

Agree? Or disagree?

cland
07-21-2011, 10:47 PM
IMO the NFLPA is just blowing a bunch of smoke after somebody convinced them that the owners were trying to pull one over on them. The worst was Heath Evans interview on NFLN, he was all over the map and basically made completely contradictory statements, complete with a two-year owner conspiracy theory.

Look the owners said we agree with the deal, we can't negotiate some of the small issues until there is a re-certified union to negotiate with. If we don't want to cancel pre-season games we have to get it done by this date.

The players heard "WE DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR ISSUES, YOU MUST RECONSTITUTE YOUR UNION WHEN WE SAY OR ELSE!!!!" Then they fired up their twitter accounts and blabbed with a bunch of propaganda and mixed facts. And of course the squeaky wheels get the grease. They weren't helped by a letter from an anonymous source (*cough that sounds like Lawyer Jeff Kessler*) that claimed the owners were violating the law by putting a re-certification date down.

Tomorrow everyone will calm it down, they'll figure out the ending punctuation, and it will all go down just fine.

PS. NFLN and ESPN's live analysis was terribly painful and mistake ridden. The worst was Adam Schefter claiming that the doors wouldn't open on Saturday if the Union didn't occur....this was the exact opposite of the truth.

cland
07-21-2011, 10:52 PM
But Peter King is saying that De Smith found something NOT originally agreed upon by his side (an item of "supplemental revenue sharing") according to the words of De Smith.

The revenue sharing agreement has nothing to do with the Player's Union. This is how the Teams split up their piece of the revenue pie. The NFLPA already has a strict cap max and cap min that sets their piece.

My favorite claim is the players claim that "We did not have a copy of the deal they approved to vote on" while at the same time claiming "There are items that the Owners slipped into the deal they approved." Well which is it??? Did you have a copy or not???

Every player that was asked "What did the owners slip in to the deal?" backed up and couldn't provide a specific item.

Nawzer
07-21-2011, 10:52 PM
This is good tv!

DX-TEX
07-21-2011, 10:54 PM
The players group has terrible leadership who have not communicated properly with its members. They are now trying to cover up this terrible leadership by placing the blame at the feet of the owners.

Plain and simple.

GP
07-21-2011, 10:55 PM
IMO the NFLPA is just blowing a bunch of smoke after somebody convinced them that the owners were trying to pull one over on them. The worst was Heath Evans interview on NFLN, he was all over the map and basically made completely contradictory statements, complete with a two-year owner conspiracy theory.

Look the owners said we agree with the deal, we can't negotiate some of the small issues until there is a re-certified union to negotiate with. If we don't want to cancel pre-season games we have to get it done by this date.

The players heard "WE DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR ISSUES, YOU MUST RECONSTITUTE YOUR UNION WHEN WE SAY OR ELSE!!!!" Then they fired up their twitter accounts and blabbed with a bunch of propaganda and mixed facts. And of course the squeaky wheels get the grease. They weren't helped by a letter from an anonymous source (*cough that sounds like Lawyer Jeff Kessler*) that claimed the owners were violating the law by putting a re-certification date down.

Tomorrow everyone will calm it down, they'll figure out the ending punctuation, and it will all go down just fine.

PS. NFLN and ESPN's live analysis was terribly painful and mistake ridden. The worst was Adam Schefter claiming that the doors wouldn't open on Saturday if the Union didn't occur....this was the exact opposite of the truth.

As I stated in my post, which I think coincides with your thoughts on this, it could very well be that some people need to get some sleep and have a nice breakfast and some coffee in the morning...to clear the cob webs and be clear-headed.

We all know that we get very unreasonable after having remained zeroed-in on something that's high pressure like this CBA deal is. You THINK you're at the finish line, but voices tell you that you're missing a key piece or you're overlooking a detail on something. So you wig out.

I'm hoping this is overblown. And Peter King, man I don't know about that guy, because I've just never been down with his stuff.

Cjeremy635
07-21-2011, 10:55 PM
Am I the only one that is bothered by the fact that there is no HOF game? I know it's only preseason and I normally don't pay attention to the whole game, but it signalizes the start of the football season. Now that's going to be postponed. Now I'm annoyed even more.

GP
07-21-2011, 10:59 PM
The revenue sharing agreement has nothing to do with the Player's Union. This is how the Teams split up their piece of the revenue pie. The NFLPA already has a strict cap max and cap min that sets their piece.

My favorite claim is the players claim that "We did not have a copy of the deal they approved to vote on" while at the same time claiming "There are items that the Owners slipped into the deal they approved." Well which is it???

Every player that was asked "What did the owners slip in to the deal?" backed up and couldn't provide a specific item.

Uh, it could be an issue if the revenue sharing eats into the PLAYERS entitlement--For all we know, the owners found a subtle way of siphoning off from the players' take and it shouldn't have been included in the deal.

THIS is the sort of thing that mayyyybe De Smith thinks he's found in the language the owners have provided. Maybe he's wrong. Maybe he's not. But he's not going to say "Done deal" until they feel everything is in order. An extra day or two will not bust the season.

You don't know anymore than I do. For all BOTH of us know, the players have either (a) poorly worded a section of the deal, or (b) intentionally re-worded a section and it affects the players in some capacity.

Try to have a dialogue here, instead of acting like you're in on the talks yourself. De Smith is apparently making damn sure that there's not a whoopie cushion being placed in the seats of his clients. I kind of appreciate that he's not just there in the room with the owners, high fiving them when the owners crossed their own finish line. He's dead dog serious, and he either has his wires crossed or he's found something legitimately odd in the deal.

hot pickle
07-21-2011, 11:01 PM
now the players backs are against the wall! if they dont vote tomorrow everyone will pin them as the bad guys in this whole situation!

Pantherstang84
07-21-2011, 11:03 PM
IMO the NFLPA is just blowing a bunch of smoke after somebody convinced them that the owners were trying to pull one over on them. The worst was Heath Evans interview on NFLN, he was all over the map and basically made completely contradictory statements, complete with a two-year owner conspiracy theory.

Look the owners said we agree with the deal, we can't negotiate some of the small issues until there is a re-certified union to negotiate with. If we don't want to cancel pre-season games we have to get it done by this date.

The players heard "WE DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR ISSUES, YOU MUST RECONSTITUTE YOUR UNION WHEN WE SAY OR ELSE!!!!" Then they fired up their twitter accounts and blabbed with a bunch of propaganda and mixed facts. And of course the squeaky wheels get the grease. They weren't helped by a letter from an anonymous source (*cough that sounds like Lawyer Jeff Kessler*) that claimed the owners were violating the law by putting a re-certification date down.

Tomorrow everyone will calm it down, they'll figure out the ending punctuation, and it will all go down just fine.

PS. NFLN and ESPN's live analysis was terribly painful and mistake ridden. The worst was Adam Schefter claiming that the doors wouldn't open on Saturday if the Union didn't occur....this was the exact opposite of the truth.

Yeah I think it is disingenous of the players to cry power play when they know full well the sticking points have to be collectively bargained. You can't collectively bargain without a union. The owners are merely proposing a timeline and voted on what they thought was a handshake deal. They adopted the proposal as an act of good faith knowing some issues still had to be settled.

GP
07-21-2011, 11:07 PM
now the players backs are against the wall! if they dont vote tomorrow everyone will pin them as the bad guys in this whole situation!

Yeah, isn't it weird that way? It's almost as if the owners knew this.

I stated awhile back (a week or so ago) that the owners started floating out a "schedule of events," such as free agency dates, so that they could wrangle the players and make the PLAYERS look like they are the ones holding up the stagecoach and making everybody poorer AND late to the station.

Now look what's happening! The owners celebrated, according to Peter King's article I posted, like it was midnight at a New Year's Eve party. To them, they figure they are just going to sit back and watch the players be put on the clock now.

I don't necessarily think the players are getting screwed. I just think the celebratory environment by the owners was a bad move. Should have been solemn and acting like they lost their pet dog and they found him dead in the road. Instead, their reaction(s) might have poured salt in the wound of what De Smith thinks is questionable language in the deal.

More "hard work" to be done? Maybe, maybe not. I hope it's just a case of everybody's cranky and it's the last gasp effort to make sure nobody slipped the other side a mickey.

HoustonFrog
07-21-2011, 11:09 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/AdamSchefter

AdamSchefter Adam Schefter
Bills S George Wilson on ESPN: "This is nothing more than an attempt to get the fans to turn on the players." Doesn't expect a vote Friday.

RTP2110
07-21-2011, 11:10 PM
Foster doing his part...

http://c0013874.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/x2_74c2079

CloakNNNdagger
07-21-2011, 11:11 PM
Just got home from making rounds..............to find that exactly what I THOUGHT would happen WOULD happen! Let's just say that it was predictable that fools and stubborn people on both sides of the fence would make the lawyers richer.

Now, the word of the day, from which all roads lead, will now have become the vicious cycle of "REVENGE."

http://www.emotionalcompetency.com/images/revenge.gif

GP
07-21-2011, 11:12 PM
Yeah I think it is disingenous of the players to cry power play when they know full well the sticking points have to be collectively bargained. You can't collectively bargain without a union. The owners are merely proposing a timeline and voted on what they thought was a handshake deal. They adopted the proposal as an act of good faith knowing some issues still had to be settled.

I think the extra negotiation items is a minor item that doesn't really stir the pot with De Smith and the players. It's being mentioned so that people know there is not a 100% certified "deal" yet.

The big news item is this part of the contract where De Smith is having trouble understanding if the section is just merely lawyer language that's confusing or if it's purposely trying to get more than what the "gentlemen's agreement" had spelled out before today. By De Smith's reaction, he thinks he's found some underhanded language that was not agreed upon previously.

Tonaaayyyy
07-21-2011, 11:13 PM
For some reason, I figured the owners would rush to present "a deal," and then put the spotlight on the players and make the players appear to be "on the clock" in the perception of the fans.

Another P.R. move, IMO. It's the owners crossing the finish line, high-fiving each other, getting that image seared into our minds...and now they're going to trash talk (in subtle ways) and essentially act like the players are just dragging their feet on accepting the deal.

I was under the impression that both sides were crafting the deal, together, via their lawyers, and then it would present situation where a final document is produced that each side would have to AGREE is representative/reflective of what was crafted for the past month or so.

But Peter King is saying that De Smith found something NOT originally agreed upon by his side (an item of "supplemental revenue sharing") according to the words of De Smith.

All I can hope for is that De Smith and his crew are so tired that they are mis-interpreting some language, and maybe it's just a mixup or bad language in the crafting of the legal mumbo jumbo. In short: He's trying to make triple-sure that the players are not getting hosed without knowing it.

I can see how he's trying to be very strict about it. His reputation is on the line for the next 10 years if the owners go "Nanny nanny boo boo! We tricked you!" on certain parts of the "deal that's good for football."

Agree? Or disagree?

Totally agree. The owners whipped this new deal up knowing it was in their favor and placed all the pressure on the players to make them look like the "bad guy." The players already knew the owners were trying to make them look bad, that's why they kept emphasizing how they were not looking towards a deadline but making sure the right deal was in place.

Good point GP!

jaayteetx
07-21-2011, 11:14 PM
Am I the only one that is bothered by the fact that there is no HOF game? I know it's only preseason and I normally don't pay attention to the whole game, but it signalizes the start of the football season. Now that's going to be postponed. Now I'm annoyed even more.

Yea, me too. Not to mention this years class of HOF'ers are kinda getting the shaft. Hope the league does the classy thing and invites them back to next years game.

GP
07-21-2011, 11:18 PM
I have a feeling that Monday or Tuesday will be make-or-break day.

I have a feeling that De Smith (and his side) will take Friday AND the weekend to review and consult and plan whatever response they feel is necessary--Whether it be a VOTE by players or a statement to the press that expresses there will not be an agreement until items A, B, and C are agreed upon and the contract is reflective of those agreements.

I could be wrong. He could wake up tomorrow, meet with Goodell over breakfast, and have his doubts removed.

I just wonder how the Kraft funeral will impact the timeline. Not saying I am mad about it, so nobody call me insensitive OK? I'm just saying that it might take longer than usual if Goodell and other higher-ups are out of town for the funeral of Mrs. Kraft.

It could be that Monday or Tuesday is a better day for everyone.

GP
07-21-2011, 11:23 PM
Totally agree. The owners whipped this new deal up knowing it was in their favor and placed all the pressure on the players to make them look like the "bad guy." The players already knew the owners were trying to make them look bad, that's why they kept emphasizing how they were not looking towards a deadline but making sure the right deal was in place.

Good point GP!

Just to clarify: This COULD be a minor misunderstanding by De Smith. He COULD somehow be guilty of being overly cautious and thinking he's found something there that's not really "there."

Or, it COULD be that the owners tried one small move that they thought would not be caught or be as big of a deal as they initially thought.

I think they need a good night's rest, some orange juice and an English muffin in the morning, and down a good cup of coffee to start their day tomorrow. Roll up their sleeves, discuss the sticking point(s) and go from there.

It might require a new contract (amended wording) and a new owner's vote, though??? And again: Will the funeral provide a day or two of pause???

Wolf
07-21-2011, 11:26 PM
why the hell are the players so worried? They each have the 200,000 dollar insurance deal if no season so they get paid :kitten:

Allstar
07-21-2011, 11:32 PM
Chris Mortensen on ESPN just reported that the NFLPA got the whole document from the owners side and they don't think any of the areas of contention are major issues. He said that they will vote on this tomorrow and there is a good chance that the players will agree to this deal. I don't know what the big deal was anyway, why would the players sign a deal without reading the whole thing? Seems like the owners tried to sneak a few things in, but nothing I think that will prevent a vote.

Nice 1000th post in the thread :fingergun:

CloakNNNdagger
07-21-2011, 11:32 PM
From NFL.com

NFLPA shows displeasure with league in email to player reps

By Albert Breer NFL Network
NFL Network Reporter


ATLANTA -- In the hours following NFL owners' 31-0 vote to ratify a settlement proposal that would end the four-month-old lockout, NFL Players Association general counsel Richard Berthelsen sent an email to player representatives Thursday night detailing the issues with the potential deal.

NFL Network obtained a copy of the email, which took issue with the league setting a rough timetable for the NFLPA to reform as a union.

"In addition to depriving the players of the time needed to consider forming a union and making needed changes to the old agreement, this proposed procedure would, in my view, also violate federal labor laws," Berthelsen said in the email. "Those laws prohibit employers from coercing their employees into forming a union and could result in any agreement reached through the procedure being declared null and void."

Berthelsen's email said the league "demands that the players reform as a union and provide evidence by Tuesday, July 26, that a majority of players have signed union authorization cards."

It also said that the new CBA includes "virtually all provisions of the old CBA" and that, after voting on it, by July 26, the players would have just three days to bargain changes in terms. The agreement, the email goes on, "would become final on Saturday, July 30. If the NFL does not agree to the players' proposed changes, the old CBA terms on benefits, discipline, safety, etc., will remain unchanged for another 10 years."

GP
07-21-2011, 11:32 PM
why the hell are the players so worried? They each have the 200,000 dollar insurance deal if no season so they get paid :kitten:

De Smith might write that number down on a piece of paper:

"Psst...just wanted to remind you: $200K-per-player is in place. Just sayin'..."

And then slide that piece of paper over to Goodell at the breakfast table.

ya' never know.....

Pantherstang84
07-21-2011, 11:33 PM
I think the extra negotiation items is a minor item that doesn't really stir the pot with De Smith and the players. It's being mentioned so that people know there is not a 100% certified "deal" yet.

The big news item is this part of the contract where De Smith is having trouble understanding if the section is just merely lawyer language that's confusing or if it's purposely trying to get more than what the "gentlemen's agreement" had spelled out before today. By De Smith's reaction, he thinks he's found some underhanded language that was not agreed upon previously.

Then he needs to put up or shut up. Call a press conference show the language he agreed to and the language that was "slipped in". Otherwise he needs to do his job and sell the deal he shook hands on.

However, the time for posturing is over. The players are whining that the owners are trying to force them to recertify. Everyone knows they are going to recertify. So they just need to shut up about that. The owners only said "Hey. If this deal is agreeable and you recertify so the remaining issues can be settled, we'll unlock the doors this Saturday." But SOMEHOW the players find this offensive.

They just need to realize they have lost the PR war so just zip it. Show the fans where the owners slipped them a mickey or get back to work.

GP
07-21-2011, 11:34 PM
So we have conflicting reports.

Nawzer is saying Mortensen is saying it's no big problem.

CND has a report saying there is definitely a problem.

Hmm......

Tonaaayyyy
07-21-2011, 11:34 PM
Just to clarify: This COULD be a minor misunderstanding by De Smith. He COULD somehow be guilty of being overly cautious and thinking he's found something there that's not really "there."

Or, it COULD be that the owners tried one small move that they thought would not be caught or be as big of a deal as they initially thought.

I think they need a good night's rest, some orange juice and an English muffin in the morning, and down a good cup of coffee to start their day tomorrow. Roll up their sleeves, discuss the sticking point(s) and go from there.

It might require a new contract (amended wording) and a new owner's vote, though??? And again: Will the funeral provide a day or two of pause???

I hope De Smith read it the wrong way...

Cjeremy635
07-21-2011, 11:36 PM
Then he needs to put up or shut up. Call a press conference show the language he agreed to and the language that was "slipped in". Otherwise he needs to do his job and sell the deal he shook hands on.

However, the time for posturing is over. The players are whining that the owners are trying to force them to recertify. Everyone knows they are going to recertify. So they just need to shut up about that. The owners only said "Hey. If this deal is agreeable and you recertify so the remaining issues can be settled, we'll unlock the doors this Saturday." But SOMEHOW the players find this offensive.

They just need to realize they have lost the PR war so just zip it. Show the fans where the owners slipped them a mickey or get back to work.

Agree 100% man.

GP
07-21-2011, 11:40 PM
Then he needs to put up or shut up. Call a press conference show the language he agreed to and the language that was "slipped in". Otherwise he needs to do his job and sell the deal he shook hands on.

However, the time for posturing is over. The players are whining that the owners are trying to force them to recertify. Everyone knows they are going to recertify. So they just need to shut up about that. The owners only said "Hey. If this deal is agreeable and you recertify so the remaining issues can be settled, we'll unlock the doors this Saturday." But SOMEHOW the players find this offensive.

They just need to realize they have lost the PR war so just zip it. Show the fans where the owners slipped them a mickey or get back to work.

Well, it's not like De Smith and his side had any daylight left in the media cycle to do what you're saying. The owner's vote didn't take place at 10 a.m.

In fact, I question why the vote by owners happened so late in the first place? Seems odd to me. It had the feeling of everybody showing up at 4:59 p.m. and all of a sudden everyone's headed for the showers a few minutes later.

Plus, you ought to know that De Smith is not going to let the next 10 years of his life be constantly judged over whether he "showed proof" on the same day as the owner's vote or even by the next day. Or even by the third day.

He's going to do what lawyers do: Sit down, read and re-read, and get counsel from his team, and ask his old college professor to look at it, and maybe even have his high school English teacher look at it, etc. You get the drift.

Everybody's so ramped up about having football again that it appears the owners COULD be guilty of pushing too quickly. You have to ask for that goodnight kiss, you can't just force it on her.

GP
07-21-2011, 11:43 PM
1. Sleep.

2. Have a GOOD breakfast, not a slice of re-heated pizza.

3. Take a deep breath: In through the nostrils, out through the mouth.

4. Wait for another statement by one, or both, sides.

Life is good. Life is short. "Football is but a distraction or diversion," to quote a few guys on here who have had to help me and others gain perspective.

Allstar
07-21-2011, 11:43 PM
Chris Mortensen

Good news. Players wrapped call, then leadership received final details. Reviewing. A vote can come tomorrow if they can satisfy a finishing detail or 2. Players want lockout lifted if/after they vote yes, then sign player union cards at team facility, collected by reps and regional directors

dtran04
07-21-2011, 11:44 PM
If the slip in was a sneaky power play and the deal breaker, surely it would have been leaked by now.

Allstar
07-21-2011, 11:45 PM
If the slip in was a sneaky power play and the deal breaker, surely it would have been leaked by now.
Honestly, if there really was sneaky stuff going on, the players would start leaking everything.

Pantherstang84
07-21-2011, 11:47 PM
Honestly, if there really was sneaky stuff going on, the players would start leaking everything.

Yep. The players got checked, and lost the PR battle. They don't like it. They just drug their feet too long and got one upped.

cland
07-21-2011, 11:51 PM
Uh, it could be an issue if the revenue sharing eats into the PLAYERS entitlement--For all we know, the owners found a subtle way of siphoning off from the players' take and it shouldn't have been included in the deal.

THIS is the sort of thing that mayyyybe De Smith thinks he's found in the language the owners have provided. Maybe he's wrong. Maybe he's not. But he's not going to say "Done deal" until they feel everything is in order. An extra day or two will not bust the season.

You don't know anymore than I do. For all BOTH of us know, the players have either (a) poorly worded a section of the deal, or (b) intentionally re-worded a section and it affects the players in some capacity.

Try to have a dialogue here, instead of acting like you're in on the talks yourself. De Smith is apparently making damn sure that there's not a whoopie cushion being placed in the seats of his clients. I kind of appreciate that he's not just there in the room with the owners, high fiving them when the owners crossed their own finish line. He's dead dog serious, and he either has his wires crossed or he's found something legitimately odd in the deal.

Revenue sharing is how the teams spread their part of the revenue to equalize income from big market and small market teams. You'll notice that it was an additional agreement, independent of the proposed CBA. The CBA contols the revenue split between the Owners and Players. The revenue split controls how teams share their part of the revenue. So it is impossible that it affects or "siphons" player revenue.

De Smith's comments: “As you know the Owners have ratified their proposal to settle our differences,” the e-mail states. “It is my understanding they are forwarding it to us. As you may have heard, they apparently approved a supplemental revenue sharing proposal. Obviously, we have not been a part of those discussions. As you know from yesterday, issues that need to be collectively bargained remain open other issues such as workers compensation, economic issues and end of deal terms remain unresolved. There is no agreement between the NFL and the Players at this time. I look forward to our call tonight.”

The comment "Obviously, we have not been a part of those discussions." can be interpreted that they don't have any reason to be part of the Owner's revenue sharing. The "issues that need to be collectively bargained" indicates that the union must re-certify before they can be addressed (re-certifying is the only way they CAN collectively bargain.)

He also doesn't make the claim that suspicious language was used in the owners proposed CBA. And then he states that there is no agreement, which is of course true before the union votes for agreement with the new CBA.

CloakNNNdagger
07-21-2011, 11:51 PM
When a man says that he approves something in principal, it means he hasn't the slightest intention of putting it in practice. ~ Otto Von Bismarck

GP
07-21-2011, 11:51 PM
I like Mort. I really do.

You guys know I have posted his tweets. A lot.

But I feel like I'm the only one who isn't buying one side or the other. I can see where confusion could have been felt on the players' side.

They watched the reports of the owners getting a unanimous vote and then celebrating it. And now it's their turn. And couple that with what might have been questionably terminology that De Smith or part of his counsel had concerns with. Everybody is shoving mics and cameras into the faces of De Smith, asking them when THEY will vote...since it's now "up to them," so to speak.

i just gotta' say that I think it's understandable if you look at it objectively.

dtran04
07-21-2011, 11:51 PM
Bills player rep said they need time to review the document and go over with the players. What in the world have they been doing the past months?

Makes it sound like the owners pulled an all nighter and churned a 500 page document overnight without any input from players. LOL

GP
07-21-2011, 11:57 PM
Revenue sharing is how the teams spread their part of the revenue to equalize income from big market and small market teams. You'll notice that it was an additional agreement, independent of the proposed CBA. The CBA contols the revenue split between the Owners and Players. The revenue split controls how teams share there part of the revenue. So it is impossible that it affects or "siphons" player revenue.

De Smith's comments:

The comment "Obviously, we have not been a part of those discussions." can be read that they don't have any reason to be part of the revenue sharing. The "issues that need to be collectively bargained" indicates that the union must re-certify before they can be addressed (re-certifying is the only way they CAN collectively bargain.)

He also doesn't make the claim that suspicious language was used in the owners proposed CBA. And then he states that there is no agreement, which is of course true before the union votes for agreement with the new CBA.

You're leaving out the part where he says there is an issue with a "supplemental revenue sharing" section. Go back and read Peter King. If you have a problem with that, contact Peter King--He's the one who has De Smith quoted on it. I doubt De Smith would be quoted on it if it were not pertaining to something that HIS side of the table needs to be in agreement with.

I know full well that revenue sharing is how teams "share revenue," but the revenue is partly attained by the players playing in the games and producing the product you and I see every week. Therefore, it's p-o-s-s-i-b-l-e that De Smith saw something tied to revenue sharing that causes him to take pause and want to examine further.

I'm not going to keep on with this. I'm not the best communicator in the world, but I think I've done a fairly good job of showing how it's p-o-s-s-i-b-l-e that the contract wording is confusing OR there is something there that good guys like Mortensen or Schefter or King or any other reporter does not see in full detail like De Smith does.

I'm trying to be fair and balanced. I won't hang one side or the other, though I do find it funny how the league presented the timeframe in great detail...and they got their vote over with as fast as they could...and they are putting a Wednesday deadline on the players....etc. Doesn't look good, if you connect a few dots--Especially the big dot that De Smith might be talking about.

GP
07-22-2011, 12:06 AM
Bills player rep said they need time to review the document and go over with the players. What in the world have they been doing the past months?

Makes it sound like the owners pulled an all nighter and churned a 500 page document overnight without any input from players. LOL

You'd do the due diligence, too, I bet.

Making sure that one small section didn't get bad/confusing language put into it. Or worse: A total re-write.

I've had situations where I negotiated a deal with a car salesmen, came back later that afternoon to sign the papers after the in-house financing team drew up the papers, and I made double-dog sure that I had every word spelled out to me and I was assured that I was signing off on what me and the salesman and his manager agreed upon.

The back automatic sliding glass of my Ford F-150 Lariat wasn't sliding, so I had them write into the contract that I could brig it back anytime and have it replaced/fixed. I go to them a few weeks later, after they had called me and said they had the part, and I dropped off the truck with the service guys. I looked right at the service manager, as I dropped the key in his hand, and said "If you review the papers on file, you'll see that I had it written into the contract that you guys will fix that item and it was not deemed an As Is item when I bought this truck. I don't want to come back here to pick up my truck and be presented with a bill." He said "No problem, sir. I'll double check the documents and contact you myself if I don't find everything in order. And I'll do it before we perform the work." I had no problems. Some extra time, some extra language, probably saved me having to jump someone's ass for a big repair bill I wasn't responsible for.

You have to do the due diligence up front. Yeah, it sucks. You come off as maybe being an ass to a few people, but at the end of the day it's my $369.00-per-month I'm spending. MINE.

Now think about being De Smith and you've got 10 years of future media speculation and expose style journalism trying to uproot why you didn't do the due diligence and why you didn't slow down and spend an extra day just to make sure of things.

You guys are looking at this through fan glasses, not through the owners or the players' glasses or the reps for both sides. This is big time stuff. This is the BIGGEST professional sports league, with the best product, the best future of any sport (maybe outside of UFC), and the pressure is insane.

dtran04
07-22-2011, 12:12 AM
The player side should go back and change something to their favor. That would be hilarious. Then it can go back and forth until the preseason is over.

Allstar
07-22-2011, 12:35 AM
The player side should go back and change something to their favor. That would be hilarious. Then it can go back and forth until the preseason is over.

You and I have different definitions of the word "hilarious."

TexCanada
07-22-2011, 12:48 AM
I've been one of the very patient fans. If they don't get this thing hammered out in the next day or two then I will pretty pissed off. Make it happen.

Nawzer
07-22-2011, 01:16 AM
Even though Mort's been reporting that there is a good chance that the NFLPA will vote and ratify the new CBA by tomorrow night, I no longer share his optimism. In all honesty, I haven't been following this lockout situation as closely as most of you are. Most of my sports attention has been diverted towards the soccer transfer period and all the tournaments going on right now. Anyway, today was the first day I decided to follow this story seriously mainly because the owners voted for the CBA. I thought this thing was going to be over by tomorrow afternoon or something. But after watching and reading a lot of these player rep comments, I don't think there will be a vote tomorrow. Bills player rep George Wilson made it really clear that there is no schedule on the table for them to get this deal done. They obviously want to and need to get it done asap, but they will not be hurried into signing something they haven't carefully gone over. Once Demaurice Smith, lawyers, and player reps have gone over the whole thing (500 pages apparently) they will then decide to vote. I don't think this is a bad thing necessarily because from the players perspective this is a 10 year deal that you can't change it or back out of it once it's ratified. There are small issues still and I think they will get solved once the CBA is agreed upon. I think if there is a vote tomorrow it would surprise me. I think tomorrow we'll see more meetings, conference calls, and things of that nature to make sure all all the players or at least most of them agree to the deal. I'm guessing on Monday they take a vote and the lockout will end.

Allstar
07-22-2011, 02:27 AM
Aaron Rodgers
Media spin on owners position in this lockout is ridiculous. Believe my colleagues tweets tonight about the events of the last 24 hours

DX-TEX
07-22-2011, 03:26 AM
ArianFosterArian Foster





I signed the CBA. http://lockerz.com/s/122429561

4 hours ago

You go Arian!:spin:

CloakNNNdagger
07-22-2011, 09:11 AM
Nothing is going to happen BEFORE the players recertify. The owners are not going to end to the lockout before the players reconstitute their union and vote to OK the deal. Obtaining player signatures at team facilities (which means that the lockout was essentially lifted) is not going to be accepted by the owners. Once the lockout is lifted, the owners lose their ability to force players to recertify. To try to do so at that point would open up the antitrust lawsuit avenue all over again. Furthermore, the recertification has to have occurred before CBA subjects such as drug testing and discipline and some safety issues can be negotiated. The bottom line is that neither side trusts the other..........and truthfully, from recent past history, they don't have much reason to do so.........and thus hope for even the proposed half-assed season prep time is quickly fading away.

CloakNNNdagger
07-22-2011, 10:44 AM
This email was sent out by the Bengal to all of their season ticket holders, immediately after the NFL vote yesterday..........Misrepresentative of the facts and disengenuous at very least. (http://www.cincyjungle.com/2011/7/22/2288012/bengals-send-letter-to-season-ticket-holders-after-owners-approved)

We are excited to let you know that the NFL has reached a new Collective Bargaining Agreement that allows the entire NFL season to be played this year.

The NFL is the most popular sport in America. Our games are intense, unifying and meaningful to fans in the stadium and to those watching at home. We are thrilled to have a labor deal in place that will provide fans with a decade of certainty and that will allow us to focus all our energies where they ought to be – on the playing field. The upcoming 2011 season will surely be exciting, and football work will begin shortly. Our coaches will begin meeting with players, and the Club will welcome back talented veterans along with exciting rookies from the April NFL Draft, like top picks A.J. Green and Andy Dalton. Whether all of that will take place in Cincinnati or Georgetown, Kentucky, will be decided shortly once we receive the NFL’s operating schedule.

Two years ago, our football team swept the AFC North—one of the toughest divisions in football—and many key components of that team remain, including defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer and a defense that ranked in the top half of the NFL for three straight seasons. The area of the team that will change the most will be the offense with a new direction under offensive coordinator Jay Gruden and new faces at quarterback and wide receiver. The mix of veterans and rookies should return our offense to the top level we need, and we are excited by the challenge.

This year—like others before it—we will focus our energies on returning to the Super Bowl again. That’s what we want and that’s what our fans want, and our franchise has been blessed with great support from fans for decades. Last season we reached a record-setting 57th straight sellout—a string we hope to restart soon—and our games have been the most-watched television program in the local market for the last applicable 96 ratings weeks. This is great football country, and incredibly: 95% of the Cincinnati population watched an NFL game during the 2009 season (third highest ranking among NFL markets).

We are very grateful to our fans, we thank you for your patience during the labor stoppage, and now we look forward to a great season together. Who Dey!

Sincerely,

Katie Blackburn

Marvin Lewis

An act of desparation or just plain stupidity.......of course, this IS the Bungles.

Double Barrel
07-22-2011, 11:53 AM
All this talk about a so-called "PR battle" cracks me up. Does anyone honestly think the fans - you know, the objects of the so-called "PR battle" - have any say in any of this?

It's not like an election, where each side needs more supporters than the other side. What do the owners care if fans are on their side or not? Fans will herd to games to spend their hard-earned money regardless if they like the owners or not.

There is no "PR battle". There might be a perception of one, but really look at it objectively and ask yourself what difference does it make what side the fans are on.

CloakNNNdagger
07-22-2011, 12:17 PM
"I'm pleased to report that the definitive agreement that we've negotiated with the union, the owners approved it today by a vote of 31, with one abstention, and I'm quite pleased. It's a 10-year agreement." -- Houston Texans owner Bob McNair on a conference call Thursday night

I realize Bob McNair has forgotten more about business than I will ever know. I realize he is the billionaire who brought football back to Houston. I realize that I am but a humble radio host. I know all of these things.

I also know that the word "agreement" generally means that both sides concur that a deal exists, that an "agreement" by definition requires multiple parties to AGREE with each other. Whatever it was that Bob McNair and his fellow owners approved Thursday, it may have been a lot of things.

An "agreement" was not one of them.

It may and should still become an agreement eventually, but for now it's still a proposal. Houston Press (http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2011/07/nfl_lockout_settlement.php)

Ole Miss Texan
07-22-2011, 01:01 PM
Houston Press (http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2011/07/nfl_lockout_settlement.php)
Come on, Pendergast. All McNair said was the owners approved the definitive agreement. Sure both sides have to sign it, McNair just said the owners did. A definitive agreement is a document that details all the terms and conditions of a "transaction" (for lack of better words). It's a pretty standard document in business. It's the 'definitive' document that expresses what the two parties are agreeing to. LOL

Errant Hothy
07-22-2011, 01:04 PM
Mort is reporting that one of the last issues is that the players want to add an opt out clause that can be activated after year 7 of the new deal.

per PFT

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/22/report-players-want-opt-out-clause-included-in-cba/

CloakNNNdagger
07-22-2011, 01:07 PM
Mort is reporting that one of the last issues is that the players want to add an opt out clause that can be activated after year 7 of the new deal.

per PFT

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/22/report-players-want-opt-out-clause-included-in-cba/

Oh good..........just a MINOR point..........so we can go through all of this AGAIN 3 years earlier! NO PROBLEM!:spin:

Errant Hothy
07-22-2011, 01:11 PM
Oh good..........just a MINOR point..........so we can go through all of this AGAIN 3 years earlier! NO PROBLEM!:spin:

If true, I find it funny that the players bitched when the owners opted out last time; but now they want the right to opt out.

CloakNNNdagger
07-22-2011, 01:13 PM
It's only PRACTICE........It's PRACTICE........It's only PRACTICE!

Also, practices have been severely reduced, especially during the regular season and, in particular, late in the season.

For starters, two-a-day practices in training camp have been eliminated, though teams can still hold a light walk-through practice in the morning. During the regular season, teams can practice in pads only one day a week. During the last five weeks of the regular season, they can practice in pads one day a week in only three of those weeks.

Previously, teams could practice in pads as many times as they wanted.

“You have to compromise on things you would prefer not to to get a deal done,” Rooney said. “They are significant changes. Everyone will have to adjust.”link (http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/110846-gerry-steelers-will-go-to-camp-wednesday)

CloakNNNdagger
07-22-2011, 01:17 PM
The owners and players have agreed to expand game day rosters from 45 to 46 active players. The No. 3 quarterback will no longer be an “emergency” inactive player.

In other words, a team can insert its third-string quarterback for a short period at any point in the game, then take him out and put the starter back in. Previously, the first and second quarterbacks couldn’t re-enter the game if the No. 3 quarterback played before the fourth quarter.

That rule came up most prominently last season when the Bears bungled the backup quarterback situation in the NFC Championship Game. After starter Jay Cutler went down and backup Todd Collins struggled, Bears coach Lovie Smith inserted No. 3 quarterback Caleb Hanie into the game just in time for him to hand off twice in the third quarter. Smith’s decision to put Hanie in the game in the third quarter instead of waiting for the fourth meant that if Hanie had suffered an injury, the Bears would have been without a quarterback for the rest of the game.

In 2011, the lack of a third-quarterback designation could be helpful for teams with third-string quarterbacks who are running threats: Now the third-stringer could be inserted as a wildcat quarterback for a play or two and then be replaced by the starter. That could be worth considering for whatever team selects Terrelle Pryor in the supplemental draft.

But the most likely result of the change to 46 active players on Sundays may just be that teams will add another active player at another position and keep two quarterbacks active on Sundays. For most teams, having extra depth at another position will be more useful than the ability to insert the third quarterback into the game whenever they please.link (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/22/nfl-drops-third-quarterback-rule-46-active-players-on-game-day/)

GP
07-22-2011, 02:15 PM
I'm against the opt-out clause at the 7-year mark.

I want both sides to live with it for the full term (10 years). Live with it, then change it at year 11 if you didn't like some aspects of it. Otherwise, this is just a 7-year agreement.

I don't think fans want to endure another 4+ months of this horseshit 7 years from now. I know I don't. 10 years is even pushing it for me, because by then we might just start hitting our stride and getting that playoff berth.

The opt-out needs to be a "no go" by the owners. I'm willing to endure scrubs every Sunday for 2011 if it means the players are told to accept 10 years or stay home and have fun with their $200K while scrubs take their places on TV every week.

Owners should concede the re-certification process the players want to use, but in return should ask them to drop the opt-out proposal. 50-50.

Pantherstang84
07-22-2011, 02:19 PM
I'm against the opt-out clause at the 7-year mark.

I want both sides to live with it for the full term (10 years). Live with it, then change it at year 11 if you didn't like some aspects of it. Otherwise, this is just a 7-year agreement.

I don't think fans want to endure another 4+ months of this horseshit 7 years from now. I know I don't. 10 years is even pushing it for me, because by then we might just start hitting our stride and getting that playoff berth.

The opt-out needs to be a "no go" by the owners. I'm willing to endure scrubs every Sunday for 2011 if it means the players are told to accept 10 years or stay home and have fun with their $200K while scrubs take their places on TV every week.

Owners should concede the re-certification process the players want to use, but in return should ask them to drop the opt-out proposal. 50-50.

Totally agree. A 10 year deal is a 10 year deal. Not a 7 year deal with an option for 3 more. The players will lose in the court of public opinion if they push this.

Allstar
07-22-2011, 02:23 PM
Sounds like the players are trying to make the game softer with these practice rules.

ChampionTexan
07-22-2011, 02:26 PM
All this talk about a so-called "PR battle" cracks me up. Does anyone honestly think the fans - you know, the objects of the so-called "PR battle" - have any say in any of this?

It's not like an election, where each side needs more supporters than the other side. What do the owners care if fans are on their side or not? Fans will herd to games to spend their hard-earned money regardless if they like the owners or not.

There is no "PR battle". There might be a perception of one, but really look at it objectively and ask yourself what difference does it make what side the fans are on.

Can you honestly say the press conference and the statements made by folks including Goodell, Bob McNair, and the Cincinnati Bengals weren't done at least in large part to make it appear to the general public that the ball was completely and totally in the players court, and any delay in completion would be totally their fault? Can you honestly say that responses by players such as Vonnie Holliday, George Wilson and others accusing the owners of tricking, duping and hoodwinking the players weren't done (again, at least in part) to communicate to the NFL fans that if the deal doesn't get approved by the players quickly, it's because the owners are the bad guys - not the players?

I'm in agreement that I don't really see how winning the PR battle benefits either side very much (other than we all love to be loved), but to assert that there is no PR battle taking place - even if we don't really see a payoff for the winner - is a stance I completely disagree with.

b0ng
07-22-2011, 02:33 PM
Sounds like the players are trying to make the game softer with these practice rules.

If we were in the 80's I would agree, but we live in an era of personal trainers and million dollar gyms I thin 2 a days in full gear is better at getting players injured th!n it is at coaching the players up.

GP
07-22-2011, 02:39 PM
One day, we'll have to pay a company (probably owned by McNair) for daily use of oxygen.

You can buy your own oxygen instead of paying for the natural stuff, but then again...somebody will be selling the bottled oxygen to you.

You need oxygen. You have to have it.

If you like watching NFL, and you want to keep watching it, a fan must buy the thing no matter who is selling it or what the price is. To that extent, I can understand what DB is saying: It don't matter who you're pissed at, you're going to have to live with the outcome.

This is where monopolies are bad. You have no recourse. With competition, consumers can pick and affect the outcome to a large degree via financial natural selection. If there was another football entity competing with the NFL, you wouldn't see the extent of what we're seeing from BOTH sides of the aisle in the NFL. But they got the corner on the market.

This is why I think the feds SHOULD be able to step in and affect the outcome, because it's practically a monopoly whose business practices are hurting the economy and the workers across the whole nation. This has national implications. The least that can be done is for a court to step in and say "The show must go on," and make the two sides table the argument until next off-season. Live in 2011 with the previous CBA rules and take another crack at it in 2012. Why is that so hard to do?

Both sides are losing the plot. They've become isolated and focused upon winning at the desk level. De Smith should come out and say "We're not happy with it. We want to play in 2011 under the currrent rules and re-visit the CBA restructuring in 2012. That's it. That's our final offer." This would give everybody closure. Either we get started with 2011 or we say To Hell With It and see what 2012 brings--Hopefully a new POTUS and a new CBA deal for 10 years. Which would be a relief for everybody.

Porky
07-22-2011, 02:52 PM
One day, we'll have to pay a company (probably owned by McNair) for daily use of oxygen.

You can buy your own oxygen instead of paying for the natural stuff, but then again...somebody will be selling the bottled oxygen to you.

You need oxygen. You have to have it.

If you like watching NFL, and you want to keep watching it, a fan must buy the thing no matter who is selling it or what the price is. To that extent, I can understand what DB is saying: It don't matter who you're pissed at, you're going to have to live with the outcome.

This is where monopolies are bad. You have no recourse. With competition, consumers can pick and affect the outcome to a large degree via financial natural selection. If there was another football entity competing with the NFL, you wouldn't see the extent of what we're seeing from BOTH sides of the aisle in the NFL. But they got the corner on the market.

This is why I think the feds SHOULD be able to step in and affect the outcome, because it's practically a monopoly whose business practices are hurting the economy and the workers across the whole nation. This has national implications. The least that can be done is for a court to step in and say "The show must go on," and make the two sides table the argument until next off-season. Live in 2011 with the previous CBA rules and take another crack at it in 2012. Why is that so hard to do?

Both sides are losing the plot. They've become isolated and focused upon winning at the desk level. De Smith should come out and say "We're not happy with it. We want to play in 2011 under the currrent rules and re-visit the CBA restructuring in 2012. That's it. That's our final offer." This would give everybody closure. Either we get started with 2011 or we say To Hell With It and see what 2012 brings--Hopefully a new POTUS and a new CBA deal for 10 years. Which would be a relief for everybody.

Bring back the USFL! That was actually really fun to watch imo. The Gamblers with Jim Kelly and the smurfs were some great times back in the day! :hurrah:

TD
07-22-2011, 02:57 PM
All this talk about a so-called "PR battle" cracks me up. Does anyone honestly think the fans - you know, the objects of the so-called "PR battle" - have any say in any of this?

It's not like an election, where each side needs more supporters than the other side. What do the owners care if fans are on their side or not? Fans will herd to games to spend their hard-earned money regardless if they like the owners or not.

There is no "PR battle". There might be a perception of one, but really look at it objectively and ask yourself what difference does it make what side the fans are on.

Anti-trust exemption = PR Battle.

Endorsement $$$ = PR Battle

Allstar
07-22-2011, 04:07 PM
If we were in the 80's I would agree, but we live in an era of personal trainers and million dollar gyms I thin 2 a days in full gear is better at getting players injured th!n it is at coaching the players up.

I'm talking about the new rules issued today. 14 padded practices allowed throughout the entire season.

Doesn't look like anything is going on this weekend:

Schefter:
AdamSchefter Adam Schefter
Player reps emailed a letter to players saying, "We will meet again Monday to discuss our options and the direction we want to go."

GP
07-22-2011, 04:12 PM
The one thing that might happen is that the weekend gives time for the bulk of players to contact the player leadership and say, "Look, thanks for representing us this whole time. We appreciate it. But get this done and get us onto the field because $200K and no playing time is not gonna' work for us."

I don't think the rookies are included in the so-called "player's insurance money" that is supposedly $200K-per-player, is it? You're going to have a rookie rep amongst the veteran player leadership reps, and he's going to want a deal to be done.

I actually just think the players are figuring they can take their sweet time and preseason is just for the owners to line their pockets with extra cash anyways. So it's no skin off the players' teeth to go slow and see if they can bargain some things such as the supposed 7-year opt-out clause, which I think is a bad deal for both sides.

Marcus
07-22-2011, 04:46 PM
Sounds like the players are trying to make the game softer with these practice rules.

I see lots more injuries taking place when the regular season begins, due to lack of conditioning.

All in all, a more inferior product. But what I expected.

Porky
07-22-2011, 05:18 PM
This is pure BS on the players part. First, this is at a critical stage, and they want to go play golf over the weekend like it's Feb? SEcondly, all this crap about not seeing the deal is BS. By now, that deal in it's entirety has been seen by at least the player reps if not the majority of the membership.

Lastly, this crap about the union is BS as well. That can be done inside of a day if not less.

The only chains being yanked are the players yanking on the fans chain and if they don't get this wrapped up Mon-Tue timeframe, fan sentiment is going to turn on them bigtime. They had a deal that was bargained by both sides in good faith and now they want a 7 yr buyout and are wanting other changes.

I think the players already got the better end of this deal overall, and if I am ownership I'm standing firm right where I am at. I'll take another scrub season if I have too rather than see the players keep jacking us around.

Allstar
07-22-2011, 05:20 PM
Schefter:

Although an email told players that reps would meet Monday, NFLPA sources say no meeting is planned and talks will continue through weekend.

Double Barrel
07-22-2011, 05:23 PM
Can you honestly say the press conference and the statements made by folks including Goodell, Bob McNair, and the Cincinnati Bengals weren't done at least in large part to make it appear to the general public that the ball was completely and totally in the players court, and any delay in completion would be totally their fault? Can you honestly say that responses by players such as Vonnie Holliday, George Wilson and others accusing the owners of tricking, duping and hoodwinking the players weren't done (again, at least in part) to communicate to the NFL fans that if the deal doesn't get approved by the players quickly, it's because the owners are the bad guys - not the players?

I'm in agreement that I don't really see how winning the PR battle benefits either side very much (other than we all love to be loved), but to assert that there is no PR battle taking place - even if we don't really see a payoff for the winner - is a stance I completely disagree with.

I think the so-called "PR battle" is an over-hyped myth perpetuated by a media machine that is lacking anything of substance to talk about these days with the NFL, so they continue to bleat on about making mountains from molehills. Sports talk radio and the blog-o-sphere has been abuzz for months regarding their delusion of self-importance and the PR angle, but yet season ticket sales remain high and seem impervious to the lock-out.

Has either the owners or players hired actual PR firms to make their side look better? This would seem prudent in a true PR battle. This is why I do not think one exists in the real sense of trying to sell it to the fans. What we think is ultimately irrelevant as long as we keep going to games.

Yeah, I agree that the owners and players might be doing things to influence a perception of a so-called "PR battle", but the end result is that they all get their money from the same place since it's all under the big NFL umbrella. I do not see fans avoiding games or not buying merchandise because they took one side over the other during the lockout, so ultimately, PR is irrelevant to any given side as it relates to the overall success of the league.

And owners have never really been popular, so for them to fight a public relations battle is a bit goofy. Maybe the ones trying to get stadium deals, but they are a small group at this point.

Anti-trust exemption = PR Battle.

Endorsement $$$ = PR Battle

The public has no sway regarding the anti-trust exemption, so I'm not sure that I follow your logic. The NFL's exemption is not even a minor platform subject to voters right now, so what would be the point of influencing PR in that regard? John Conyers tried to bring it up in May, but Lamar Smith refused to take up the legislation. If there was blood in the water and voters really cared about the anti-trust exemption, there is no doubt in my mind that those sharks in Wash DC would have capitalized on it. In the end, nothing happened.

As far as endorsements, these are directly tied to performance. As soon as this lock-out blows over - and it's just a matter of time - it's business as usual and advertisers are looking for the next star player to sign to endorsements. I do not see an individual player's position during the lock-out having any influence on an advertisement deal.

I see lots more injuries taking place when the regular season begins, due to lack of conditioning.

All in all, a more inferior product. But what I expected.

Yep, this ain't our fathers' NFL. Maybe one day they will make it so soft that girls can play, too. :winky:

Allstar
07-22-2011, 05:31 PM
Albert Breer
I will say this: NFLPA people are working over the weekend, and their office will be open. Communication with exec comm, reps is ongoing.

Judy Battista
Players spokesman George Atallah says neither he nor De Smith know anything about an email saying player reps won't meet until Monday.

TEXANRED
07-22-2011, 05:48 PM
I think the Owners have underestimated the players willingness to play preseason games when there are no game checks on the line for them.

Pantherstang84
07-22-2011, 06:22 PM
This is pure BS on the players part. First, this is at a critical stage, and they want to go play golf over the weekend like it's Feb? SEcondly, all this crap about not seeing the deal is BS. By now, that deal in it's entirety has been seen by at least the player reps if not the majority of the membership.

Lastly, this crap about the union is BS as well. That can be done inside of a day if not less.

The only chains being yanked are the players yanking on the fans chain and if they don't get this wrapped up Mon-Tue timeframe, fan sentiment is going to turn on them bigtime. They had a deal that was bargained by both sides in good faith and now they want a 7 yr buyout and are wanting other changes.

I think the players already got the better end of this deal overall, and if I am ownership I'm standing firm right where I am at. I'll take another scrub season if I have too rather than see the players keep jacking us around.


I'll buy that for a dollar. You still have Takeo Spikes claiming the owners slipped them a mickey. But who is really slipping who a mickey here?

Cjeremy635
07-22-2011, 06:51 PM
Albert Breer

Judy Battista

Somebody isn't telling the truth. Kyle Vandenbosh was on NFLN via phone. He's the player representative for the Lions and he said that the last he heard was they were going to talk again Monday. I think the players are full of shit right now and want to drag this out as long as possible. I think they want to miss preseason.

Showtime100
07-22-2011, 06:54 PM
Somebody isn't telling the truth. Kyle Vandenbosh was on NFLN via phone. He's the player representative for the Lions and he said that the last he heard was they were going to talk again Monday. I think the players are full of shit right now and want to drag this out as long as possible. I think they want to miss preseason.

This is what I've been thinking exactly. I still can't wrap my brain around their practice demands.

TEXANRED
07-22-2011, 06:55 PM
I think they want to miss preseason.

Yep. What do the vets have to lose? They don't get a game check and no preseason means they won't lose their job to a rookie.

Buffi2
07-22-2011, 06:57 PM
Somebody isn't telling the truth. Kyle Vandenbosh was on NFLN via phone. He's the player representative for the Lions and he said that the last he heard was they were going to talk again Monday. I think the players are full of shit right now and want to drag this out as long as possible. I think they want to miss preseason.

I heard old Kyle say that and I agree with you. Taking the weekend off isn't a really good move. It isn't as if they've been working hard for the last few months and need a rest.

thunderkyss
07-22-2011, 07:33 PM
It may and should still become an agreement eventually, but for now it's still a proposal.
Houston Press (http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2011/07/nfl_lockout_settlement.php)

I really don't understand this. What were they talking to Demaurice Smith for if he didn't have the power to negotiate on behalf of the players?

Were we just wasting time?

The agreement should be in place. What we should be waiting for is the players to recertify the union.

If they don't want to recertify because they do not like the agreement, then Demaurice Smith wasted our time. The players time, & needs to get the F out of the way & let whoever the real negotiator is step to the table & get this done.

thunderkyss
07-22-2011, 07:37 PM
Bring back the USFL! That was actually really fun to watch imo. The Gamblers with Jim Kelly and the smurfs were some great times back in the day! :hurrah:

I think this would be a perfect time for that XFL group, or any of the wanna-bee pro football groups to come in & make an offer.

You have a bunch of players out there, with no where to go.

Actually February or March would have been the perfect time.

CloakNNNdagger
07-22-2011, 08:23 PM
Yep, this ain't our fathers' NFL. Maybe one day they will make it so soft that girls can play, too. :winky:

http://newsnetz-blog.ch/zumrundenleder/files/2011/01/how_handegg_should_be_played.jpg

dtran04
07-22-2011, 08:25 PM
I think this would be a perfect time for that XFL group, or any of the wanna-bee pro football groups to come in & make an offer.

You have a bunch of players out there, with no where to go.

Actually February or March would have been the perfect time.

There's the UFL, but it's going under apparently.

Allstar
07-22-2011, 08:31 PM
Somebody isn't telling the truth. Kyle Vandenbosh was on NFLN via phone. He's the player representative for the Lions and he said that the last he heard was they were going to talk again Monday. I think the players are full of shit right now and want to drag this out as long as possible. I think they want to miss preseason.
Jason La Canfora
Clearing up some stuff from earlier - was a false report about the nature of an alleged email from the NFLPA to player reps that quickly . Spread to the point where reps and players believed it to be true, including several I spoke to. Turned out to be erroneous and the NFLPA. In fact sent out nothing. PA got word to players it was not true and there is no conference call or meeting set for Monday.

Maybe that explains it?

CloakNNNdagger
07-22-2011, 08:38 PM
There's the UFL, but it's going under apparently.

Since NFLEurope is defunct, it wouldn't surprise me in the NFL buys out the UFL and transforms it into a true NFL developmental league.

Buffi2
07-22-2011, 08:58 PM
Since NFLEurope is defunct, it wouldn't surprise me in the NFL buys out the UFL and transforms it into a true NFL developmental league.

Cool! Then we can have two leagues that don't play.:foottap:

Allstar
07-22-2011, 08:58 PM
Adam Schefter
In touch with @georgeatallah: Roger, De, officials from both sides working all weekend to finish deal points, process for players reforming.

Cjeremy635
07-22-2011, 09:11 PM
http://newsnetz-blog.ch/zumrundenleder/files/2011/01/how_handegg_should_be_played.jpg

I played rugby for 3 years all over Texas. I can vouch that it's a rough sport and I do think it's harder than football. The continuous running plus the contact made it a great outlet. I've seen guys get their ear partially ripped off in a scrum, use electrical tape to hold it in place, and then finish the game. Played in numerous tournaments where legs were snapped. You could hear the loud pop. They'd just pull the guys to the sideline and keep playing. Good times, good times....

CloakNNNdagger
07-22-2011, 09:35 PM
I played rugby for 3 years all over Texas. I can vouch that it's a rough sport and I do think it's harder than football. The continuous running plus the contact made it a great outlet. I've seen guys get their ear partially ripped off in a scrum, use electrical tape to hold it in place, and then finish the game. Played in numerous tournaments where legs were snapped. You could hear the loud pop. They'd just pull the guys to the sideline and keep playing. Good times, good times....

I once took care of one of Australia's national team......and met the rest of the team.........never met a rougher, durable bunch in my life..........they seemed immune to pain.

Now, if the NFL would have 2-a-days.......and without helmets and pads like that........I could definitely live through that.........unfortunately, OUR players probably would never..........that is, live through that!:kitten:

Allstar
07-22-2011, 09:54 PM
Remember when the players were supposed to vote Wednesday? :ahhaha:

False Start
07-22-2011, 10:03 PM
I'm talking about the new rules issued today. 14 padded practices allowed throughout the entire season.

Schefter:

Really? Wow... http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/J4103V/k_hahaurgay1.gif


I understand wanting to cut down on injuries, that little amount of time in practice just seems it would mess with their technique, and conditioning.

CloakNNNdagger
07-22-2011, 10:45 PM
Really? Wow... http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/J4103V/k_hahaurgay1.gif


I understand wanting to cut down on injuries, that little amount of time in practice just seems it would mess with their technique, and conditioning.



It has been pointed out that the Texans were one of the teams that was always doing their second practice without pads or helmets, just walk-throughs anyway. So it won't change much for them. Certainly helped in the injury department.........and we sure showed great execution in games. :kitten:

Believe me, besides sloppier performance, it will result in MORE injuries........MANY MORE. That's what essentially happens when the inmates begin running the asylum.

Cjeremy635
07-22-2011, 11:10 PM
I think the lack of padded practices will definitely contribute to more injuries and sloppy technique as was mentioned above. With the lack of tackling skills that are league wide and the constantly changing contact rules that only allow you to contact someone in a 2 foot section of their torso, I forsee:

1) More fines
2) More penalties
3) More missed tackles and allowed touchdowns

This is turning into powderpuff football.

badboy
07-22-2011, 11:18 PM
After this is all over and signed off on, I would like to see a letter from the fans posted in newspapers of all major cities telling owners and players what we think of them. Probably would not bother any of them but would make me feel better by knowing "we told them!"

beerlover
07-22-2011, 11:21 PM
That's what essentially happens when the inmates begin running the asylum.

don't forget they're also run by the Devil :evilb:

CloakNNNdagger
07-22-2011, 11:50 PM
Posted by Mike Florio of PFT

On Thursday, the NFL annouThe open items before the league’s approval of the labor dealnced that it had approved a new labor deal, subject to acceptance of the deal by the players. Some players complained that they hadn’t seen the final version of the deal that was approved by the owners, other players complained that the NFL had slipped new terms into the final version of the deal that was approved by the owners.

A day before, the NFLPA* Executive Committee and board of player representatives saw a summary of the proposed deal, which included the open items, as of Wednesday. Howard Balzer of the Sports Xchange and 101espn.com has obtained a copy of the summary.

The open items are set forth below.

First, the minimum team expenditure would be only 89 percent of the salary cap. The term would be coupled with a guaranteed league-wide cash spend of 95 percent of the salary cap. If half of the teams spend 100 percent of the cap, half could spend 90 percent of the cap, preserving as a practical matter a 10-percent spread between the highest-spending and lowest-spending teams. If, alternatively, all teams have a minimum cash spend of 95 percent, the total cash spend would be 97.5 percent or more, assuming at least half of the teams spend 100 percent of their allotment, with the other half spending 95 percent.

Second, those offseason workout bonuses (such as the $750,000 due to Jets tackle D’Brickashaw Ferguson) would be paid if the player reports to training camp and performs the services required of him. Thus, under this term, players who report for work (and then work) would earn all offseason workout bonuses, despite the absence of an offseason workout program.

Third, for rookie pay, an escalator would be available to push the fourth-year salary to the lowest level restricted free agency tender, which is $1.2 million in 2011, but which will increase with the salary cap.

Fourth, players would be guaranteed up to $3 million for the second and third year after a catastrophic injury. Balzer reports that, in the deal approved by the league on Thursday, the number had been cut to $1 million in the second year and $500,000 in the third year.

Fifth, the California loophole for workers’ compensation benefits would continue.

Sixth, the possibility of an opt out was included as an open item. Balzer reports that the final version included no opt out, making it a firm 10-year deal. (It has been reported that the players want a potential opt out after seven years.)

Seventh, payment of $320 million in lost benefits would be made for the 2010 season. In the summary document, the lump sum expressly is linked to the “lockout insurance” case. Basically, the players are proposing the restoration of those lost benefits as the payment of damages for the league’s failure to max out TV money when persuading the networks to pay rights fees during a lockout.

Eighth, a settlement of the Brady antitrust case would need to be made, separate and apart from the labor deal.

Ninth, a player would be subject to the franchise tag only once in his career.

Tenth, short-term injured reserve would be available, along with a possible game-day roster of 47. The deal approved by the owners reportedly limits the game-day roster to 46.

I’ll be pulling out some of the settled items from the summary later tonight for discussion and analysis. Thanks again to Howard Balzer of the Sports Xchange and 101espn.com for passing it along.

CloakNNNdagger
07-23-2011, 12:01 AM
There are so many games being played now because different agendas within both sides are dictating the actions or inactions of the participants.

Owners care more than players about preseason revenue


In theory, the players should have no leverage at this point in the practice. Each lost week of the preseason results in a shared forfeiture of roughly $200 million. Under the proposed labor deal, that’s roughly $96 million for the players, and roughly $104 million for the owners.

In practice, it doesn’t matter because the owners care much more about the preseason revenue than the players do. For many players, their compensation for 2011 already is fixed; it doesn’t matter if the pot that funds the salary cap adds another $96 million or $192 million or $288 million or $384 million. For the owners, $104 million in lost revenue per week roughly equates (setting aside for these purposes revenue disparities) to $3.25 million per team, per week. Which increases to $13 million per team if the full preseason is lost.

What’s $13 million per team? For some, that’s most if not all of the profit margin for the entire year.

That said, the absence of preseason games would also result in reduced expenses for the owners. But with game checks not paid until the regular season, the expenses are a lot less during the preseason.

Then there’s the fact that, if a full preseason is played, some veterans (including possibly members of the Executive Committee and/or board of player representatives) could end up making zero percent of their 2011 salaries, if the full preseason gives a younger player enough time to persuade the coach that it’s time to cut the veteran. So why not skip a couple of weeks of preseason revenue and increase dramatically the chances of getting 17 weeks of regular-season pay?link (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/22/owners-care-more-than-players-about-preseason-revenue-more-than-players/)

badboy
07-23-2011, 12:02 AM
Thanks CND, I thought the "must pay" certain percentage was for each team not an average for NFl.

CloakNNNdagger
07-23-2011, 12:11 AM
New offseason rules carry stiff fines for violations (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/22/new-offseason-rules-carry-stiff-fines-for-violations/)


From time to time, teams have been punished for violating the terms of the offseason workout rules. Typically, the offending team loses a week of workouts.

Under the proposed labor deal adopted by the league (but not yet by the players, if you haven’t heard), it’ll cost more than a week of practice time.

The summary obtained by Howard Balzer of the Sports Xchange and 101espn.com shows that coaches would be fined $100,000 for a first offense, and $250,000 for a second offense. Teams will be fined $250,000 for a first offense, and $500,000 for a second offense.

That’s a total fine of $350,000 for a first offense, and $750,000 for a second offense.

And that’s a significant deterrence for any coach or team that decides to skirt these new rules, if/when they are adopted.

badboy
07-23-2011, 12:27 AM
New offseason rules carry stiff fines for violations (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/22/new-offseason-rules-carry-stiff-fines-for-violations/)I like this.

CloakNNNdagger
07-23-2011, 09:17 AM
Chris Mortensen posted this link of the 25 page PDF summary pending NFLPA reviewed with player reps Wednesday, Pre-owners' "final" document.

PDF (http://es.pn/nNutZK)

CloakNNNdagger
07-23-2011, 09:35 AM
What's funny is that the 7 year opt out has been reported initially by ESPN and subsequently by other independent sources as being requested by SOME, NOT MOST of the players. The "NFLPA" process has shown itself to be so poorly structured that it could potentially disrupt the entire CBA negotiation with a last minute demand by "SOME."...............PATHETIC!!!!!!

GP
07-23-2011, 11:56 AM
What's funny is that the 7 year opt out has been reported initially by ESPN and subsequently by other independent sources as being requested by SOME, NOT MOST of the players. The "NFLPA" process has shown itself to be so poorly structured that it could potentially disrupt the entire CBA negotiation with a last minute demand by "SOME."...............PATHETIC!!!!!!

That's why I said I hope the majority of players send about 1,890 texts to the player leadership and say "Hey, thanks for the ride. We want to stop here and stretch our legs awhile. Vote "Yes" on the deal, please. Thank you."

The players need to step in and tell their leadership to find a way to get a win-win for both sides--I floated the idea of the players giving up the opt-out clause if the owners allow them to re-certify the way the players want to (at camp, by passing out cards to each player).

And it IS looking like players don't care about preseason now.

GP
07-23-2011, 12:00 PM
I have a question.

If the preseason represents, for some teams, perhaps their entire profit margin for the year--Meaning the revenue they get from preseason is what they actually end up taking home at the end of the year, which means the reg season is almost LOSING them money--then why did the owners want to increase reg season games and decrease the amount of preseason games??? This would be like a restaurant owner deciding to decrease soda and liquor/beer sales and increase food production--The profit margin on those items is 98% of the time night-and-day different.

The 4-game preseason seems to be verrrrry valuable to the owners. The players know this, and unfortunately I think the players are making a big mistake by toying with the owners and putting preseason in jeopardy. I won't say that the owners are without fault, but am saying that if the players shaft the owners on even ONE week of preseason revenue, it could make for revenge-minded tactics the NEXT time around in 7 or 10 years from now.

GP
07-23-2011, 12:04 PM
@AdamSchefter Named plaintiff Vincent Jackson now is willing to release his claim without compensation - meaning no money or lifting of the franchise tag.

So there won't be a problem with this guy. I am sure Mankins will do likewise.

The Pencil Neck
07-23-2011, 12:11 PM
@AdamSchefter Named plaintiff Vincent Jackson now is willing to release his claim without compensation - meaning no money or lifting of the franchise tag.

So there won't be a problem with this guy. I am sure Mankins will do likewise.

I have this weird feeling that Jackson and Mankins are/were being jerks just to give the NFLPA some breathing space and they'll drop their suits when their peers want them to.

EDIT: "Peers" is probably the wrong word. NFLPA Management would probably be more accurate.

TexanSam
07-23-2011, 12:13 PM
I have this weird feeling that Jackson and Mankins are/were being jerks just to give the NFLPA some breathing space and they'll drop their suits when their peers want them to.

EDIT: "Peers" is probably the wrong word. NFLPA Management would probably be more accurate.

I dunno, Mankins seemed to have a beef with the Patriots last year for not signing him to a long term contract. Didn't report until halfway through the season. Wouldn't surprise me if he really did want a large sum of money.

ChampionTexan
07-23-2011, 12:56 PM
I have a question.

If the preseason represents, for some teams, perhaps their entire profit margin for the year--Meaning the revenue they get from preseason is what they actually end up taking home at the end of the year, which means the reg season is almost LOSING them money--then why did the owners want to increase reg season games and decrease the amount of preseason games??? This would be like a restaurant owner deciding to decrease soda and liquor/beer sales and increase food production--The profit margin on those items is 98% of the time night-and-day different.

The 4-game preseason seems to be verrrrry valuable to the owners. The players know this, and unfortunately I think the players are making a big mistake by toying with the owners and putting preseason in jeopardy. I won't say that the owners are without fault, but am saying that if the players shaft the owners on even ONE week of preseason revenue, it could make for revenge-minded tactics the NEXT time around in 7 or 10 years from now.

A key question in this answer is whether the revenues from pre-season games are included in the pie that is divided up to determine the salary cap. I've heard things in the past that lead me to believe they are, but I can't state that for a fact.

If the above is correct, than a dollar of preseason revenue is no more or less valuable than a dollar of regular season revenue, and the increased Television dollars from two additional regular season games would provide essentially the same margin as every other dollar - preseason dollars included. And if this is the case, it would mean that while some NFL teams profits may be essentially equal to their preseason revenues, it is the result of a coincidence, rather than the regular season being a break-even proposition.

Edit: A little bit of research turned up this:
Lost preseason hurts players financially, too (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/03/lost-preseason-hurts-players-financially-to/)

Ryan
07-23-2011, 01:38 PM
NFL.com took down preseason schedules for all the teams. Probably not a good sign.

Allstar
07-23-2011, 01:41 PM
NFL.com took down preseason schedules for all the teams. Probably not a good sign.

Wouldn't read too much into that, it's not like they'd cancel the whole thing at once. It would be week by week.

Showtime100
07-23-2011, 02:26 PM
Let's see.....the players get copies of the proposal and reads it today..........and tomorrow. Monday they get a lawyer to explain to them what they just read. Tuesday they get a friend to ask the lawyer what the **** the lawyer just said. Wednesday the friend reports back to the player to put in layman's terms what the lawyer told him.

Thursday the player goes public with his rejection of the deal saying he's not stupid enough to take such a deal.

FML

Allstar
07-23-2011, 03:15 PM
Let's see.....the players get copies of the proposal and reads it today..........and tomorrow. Monday they get a lawyer to explain to them what they just read. Tuesday they get a friend to ask the lawyer what the **** the lawyer just said. Wednesday the friend reports back to the player to put in layman's terms what the lawyer told him.

Thursday the player goes public with his rejection of the deal saying he's not stupid enough to take such a deal.

FML

:spit:

False Start
07-23-2011, 03:42 PM
Let's see.....the players get copies of the proposal and reads it today..........and tomorrow. Monday they get a lawyer to explain to them what they just read. Tuesday they get a friend to ask the lawyer what the **** the lawyer just said. Wednesday the friend reports back to the player to put in layman's terms what the lawyer told him.

Thursday the player goes public with his rejection of the deal saying he's not stupid enough to take such a deal.

FML

This is starting to piss me off....:yawn:

CloakNNNdagger
07-23-2011, 03:48 PM
Let's see.....the players get copies of the proposal and reads it today..........and tomorrow. Monday they get a lawyer to explain to them what they just read. Tuesday they get a friend to ask the lawyer what the **** the lawyer just said. Wednesday the friend reports back to the player to put in layman's terms what the lawyer told him.

Thursday the player goes public with his rejection of the deal saying he's not stupid enough to take such a deal.

FML

Later that night, Smith talks to the player and says "Yes you are!"

CloakNNNdagger
07-23-2011, 04:01 PM
This portion of the summary regarding in-season practices contains one more open issue we didn’t previously noticed. The players want five straight days off during the bye week; it’s not known whether the league included that provision in the labor deal that was approved Thursday.link (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/23/in-season-padded-practices-plummet-under-new-cba/)

Since I know so many players play Madden, I expect them to come back and demand that 4 season games be determined on the video game........and that they shall not be required to wear pads and helmets during that time, in return for agreeing to full contact..........with their keyboards.:kitten:

CloakNNNdagger
07-23-2011, 04:38 PM
This could certainly put a little dent into Bob's willingness to spend.

New revenue sharing plan features tax on highest-earning teams (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/23/new-revenue-sharing-plan-features-tax-on-highest-earning-teams/)


When the NFL approved a labor deal to which the NFLPA* hadn’t, and still hasn’t, agreed, the league surprisingly announced a new supplemental revenue sharing plan.

In hindsight, it shouldn’t be much of a surprise. With the salary floor rising to unprecedented heights, supplemental revenue sharing becomes more important than ever, given that all revenue — including unshared revenue — drives up the per-team salary cap. This necessarily forces low-revenue teams to devote a larger piece of their already lower earnings to player costs.

Per a source with knowledge of the details of the arrangement, the new supplemental revenue sharing plan includes a 10-percent tax on the “local revenue” of the highest-revenue teams. The money will be distributed to the lowest-revenue teams.

We haven’t yet gotten our eyeballs on the formula that determines the teams who’ll pay the tax — or the teams who’ll get the second half of the Robin Hood treatment.

We also haven’t seen the definition of “local revenue,” but it likely includes luxury suites, parking, and pretty much anything and everything other than ticket sales, TV money, all national sponsorships and media deals, and any sources of shared revenue.

The previous supplemental revenue sharing plan was funded by taking 40 percent of each team’s club seat sales and putting the money into a fund that serviced league-incurred stadium debt. The excess was distributed to low-revenue teams based on need.

The NFLPA* has objected, sort of, to the decision of the NFL to include revenue sharing in the approved deal. However, the NFLPA* had every opportunity to focus on this issue during negotiations, and the NFLPA* chose not to do so.

Ryan
07-23-2011, 04:42 PM
mortreport Chris Mortensen
John Clayton and I reporting major progress in talks today. Players committee meet Mobday in DC to hopefully recommend approval.

keyser
07-23-2011, 04:54 PM
I seem to remember lots of articles early on with a very pro-player slant, talking about how the owners had all these unreasonable and unfair requests of the players. I started with more of a pro-owner stance, then after reading some of that, starting having more sympathy for the players. But, after seeing lots of these details, I'm way more on the owners' side.

So, it seems that critical points that the players were/are negotiating for are that:

They don't want to have to practice as much
They don't want to have to practice as hard
They want more days off of work, especialy in the bye week
They want to be paid for stuff they didn't do (due to the lockout)
They want to be paid for things that they shouldn't have been paid for under the uncapped year of previous CBA, that they agreed to.

Some of these are reasonable enough - all workers generally want less work and more pay. But, they're not part of some highly principled stand as they were making it out to be. You can at least make high-sounding arguments for things like needing more money allocated to medical treatment for retired players, making sure that they get a "fair" amount of the revenue coming in to the NFL, or not playing games that might lead to more injuries. This is just raw "give us what we want" stuff.

Allstar
07-23-2011, 05:11 PM
ESPN News - Clayton/Mortensen: NFLPA tentatively agrees to vote on labor deal, union recertification next week

Recertification vote reportedly on Wednesday, with camp possibly opening on Friday. And apparently that's the best case scenario.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6796174/2011-nfl-lockout-nfl-sides-eye-camps-recertify-vote-source-says


Under the plan, players would begin reporting to training camps as early as Wednesday to physically vote on whether to recertify, with the hope that it will be done by Friday at the earliest, the source said.

Ryan
07-23-2011, 05:29 PM
Where's Kevin Mawae to kill the buzz this time? :foottap:

False Start
07-23-2011, 05:38 PM
Where's Kevin Mawae to kill the buzz this time? :foottap:

Wouldn't doubt it, never have liked the guy...the dirty SOB, on and off the field. :bat:

CloakNNNdagger
07-23-2011, 07:00 PM
ALL of the talking heads have been talking through their butts all along. Had they taken their daily "It's going to happen tomorrow" predictions to Las Vegas, they would have lost their butts. Predictions on this Board have at least matched their accuracy........and we aren't syndicated and making big bucks doing it. These people must have been weather men in their previous lives.

Pantherstang84
07-23-2011, 07:31 PM
With all of new practice and time off rules the players want implemented they should just change the name to the Nerf Football League.

CloakNNNdagger
07-23-2011, 08:05 PM
With all of new practice and time off rules the players want implemented they should just change the name to the Nerf Football League.

Due to his ongoing neck problems, Peyton, in the name of safety, has petitioned the league that Nerf be made the official maker of NFL footballs. Meanwhile, Manning has already been seen preparing for the transition.

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/payton_manning_smallpic_with_FB.jpg

GP
07-24-2011, 12:41 AM
@mortreport Goodell & Smith working directly on couple finishing details but trust is there & determined. In fact, Goodell may be invited to Mon. presser

--------------------

Goodell and Smith, IMO, perhaps working out a few rough spots. Entirely possible that the lawyers drafting the actual contract MIGHT have had a spot or two that was not jiving with the previous talks and handshakes. Or, at very least, it was poorly worded/constructed and led to confusion.

If it meant delaying it until Monday'ish, to make sure that the players are 100% certain that there's not any shenanigans contained in the contract, then I don't think either side should be vilified for the delays.

Both sides dilly-dallied and should have been at it like this throughout February, March, and April. But oh well.

I feel that our NFL lives will resume, in full, by next week. It's going to be good to know that NFL is on "the right track." This is the only pro sport, but MMA is a close 2nd place, that I truly yearn for every year. My best times every year? Summer training camps, preseason games, opening day NFL and college, the leaves turning and marching bands and homecoming parades, reg season, playoffs, bowl games, Super Bowl, and then it all goes "dark" until the draft combine and the draft. It's my circle of life.

Allstar
07-24-2011, 01:06 AM
Per NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d820ede10/article/nfl-owners-players-make-significant-progress-in-labor-talks?module=HP11_headline_stack)

Tentative 2011 league calendar*

Wednesday: Team facilities open,
free agency and trading period begins

Friday: Training camps open

Aug. 11-15: Preseason Week 1

Sept. 8: Kickoff game, Saints at Packers

*Assuming players ratify deal Tuesday


So looks like free agency might go down on Wednesday anyways.

GP
07-24-2011, 01:21 AM
It's going to be great to watch NFLN and NFL Live on ESPN again.

Haven't watched a single SECOND of it since end of Super Bowl. I couldn't even bring myself to watch draft combine footage. Didn't event watch the draft--Got my news from right here on the boards.

Can't wait to see the MASSIVE amount of actual, 100% REAL news on the greatest entertaining sport in my personal world. Should be packed with news once Wednesday hits. And no stopping or slowing down. It's going to be wicked awesome.

Dutchrudder
07-24-2011, 01:52 AM
I dunno, Mankins seemed to have a beef with the Patriots last year for not signing him to a long term contract. Didn't report until halfway through the season. Wouldn't surprise me if he really did want a large sum of money.

Mankins got the Owen Daniels treatment. Forced into an RFA deal after earning all-pro status. So he made a million or two last season, but is now stuck with the franchise tag.

thunderkyss
07-24-2011, 01:58 AM
Mankins got the Owen Daniels treatment. Forced into an RFA deal after earning all-pro status. So he made a million or two last season, but is now stuck with the franchise tag.

Owen Daniels was forced into a RFA deal because we offered him a deal that would make him a top 5 TE?

How does that work?

Allstar
07-24-2011, 02:17 AM
Owen Daniels was forced into a RFA deal because we offered him a deal that would make him a top 5 TE?

How does that work?

Point is, because of the opting out of the CBA, Mankins was forced to become a RFA, same as OD. any other year, both would have been UFA.

CloakNNNdagger
07-24-2011, 09:48 AM
The games continue as the fans continue to get played.
From PFT.

New CBA sets up eventual 18-game stare down


The NFL players successfully have beaten back the league’s desire to expand (i.e., enhance) the regular season from 16 to 18 games.

For now.

A source with knowledge of the terms of the deal approved by the owners on Thursday tells PFT that, while the new CBA removes the league’s unilateral right to expand from 16 to 18 games (while keeping four preseason games, if so desired), the agreement gives the league the ability to shift to a 16-and-2 format without the input or approval of the post-asterisked NFLPA.

The thinking is that, if the players decline in the future to agree to move to 18 games (which would push the season deeper into the winter months) and cut the preseason from four games to two, the league would simply invoke its right to cut the preseason in half. With the players now getting 48 percent of the gross, the players would lose 48 percent of the revenue lost from a reduced preseason.

And that’s where the owners once again are badly underestimating the players. As we’ve learned over the last 60 hours, the players don’t care about the preseason nearly as much as the owners do. Spread over 1,900 players, the financial impact of the loss of two preseason games is relatively small. Spread across 32 teams, the disappearance of two money-for-nothing games would chew deeply into the profit margin of many teams, especially since expenses in the preseason are minimal.

So when the league says to the players, “Well, our fans really don’t want four preseason games, and since this is all about the fans, we need to reduce the preseason to two games, even if that means keeping the regular season at 16,” the players should respond by saying, “Fine. Do it.”

And then the owners will decide, after further reflection, that they care about their profits more than they care about what the fans want when it comes to the preseason.

DX-TEX
07-24-2011, 10:06 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/24/report-player-reps-flying-to-d-c-sunday-final-deal-points-reached/

ESPN has upped the language and certainty of their report that says the process to end the lockout will start with a vote Monday.

No longer is a meeting between the NFLPA* executive committee “expected.” Now the players have bought tickets and are flying in Sunday for a Monday meeting.

No longer are there a few minor points left to figure out. Adam Schefter reports the two sides “have reached agreement” on the remaining issues.

“Despite the fact the new deal will require a majority vote from the players, that part of the deal between the two sides is considered a formality, according to sources,” Schefter writes.

The timeline we laid out last night remains. While it’s not official, some teams could potentially report to their team facilities Wednesday. The two sides would hope to have enough players officially vote to open free agency and training camp next Saturday. These dates remain subject to tweaking, but the report of an agreement apparently does not.

Either this is one of the biggest gaffes in sports journalism history or this thing is really going down Monday.
Could this be it? Could we all get our NFL back?

CloakNNNdagger
07-24-2011, 04:53 PM
The trend will carry itself well into the regular season.

July 24, 2011, 4:01 pm

Patriots linebacker Tully Banta-Cain underwent surgery to repair an abdominal tear, according to a report by the Boston Globe.

The injury felt "fine" a source told the Globe, but got worse during recent workouts.

ESPN Boston spoke with sources who hesitated to call the injury a "tear," and said Banta-Cain was expected to be out 4-5 weeks.

With the number of unsupervised workouts going on during the lockout, many are predicting that there will be more injuries that will be reported as the league gets closer to returning to work.

One note about the timing of the surgery: With the lockout expected to end later this week, Banta-Cain will soon be allowed to rehab his injury with Patriots staff. If he had surgery earlier this year, he would not have been allowed to use team facilities or visit team doctors to get ready for the season.

AlbertBreer Albert Breer

Good reporting by @shalisemyoung on Banta-Cain injury ... With all unsupervised workouts this offseason, expect more news like that to come.

35 minutes ago

Allstar
07-24-2011, 05:44 PM
Sucks for the already pass rush-depleted Pats.Though I find it very hard to feel sorry for them :)

Report: Franchise tags will now be % of salary cap, not average of top players. Starting 2012.

GP
07-24-2011, 08:07 PM
Not sure if anybody else had posted this, so here goes:

Major breakthroughs in Saturday discussions set up the timetable for the resolution to the 130-day lockout.

Owners tentatively agreed to a players-recommended plan for the NFLPA to bring players into team facilities starting as early as Wednesday to physically vote on whether to recertify the current trade association as a union, a source told ESPN.com's John Clayton. Edit by GP: IIRC, the owners wanted electronic signatures and were not "cool" with the idea of players being allowed at team facilities to sign union cards. This was an owners "give" and you'll see some players' "give" further down in this article.

The players' executive committee will meet in Washington on Monday, a move that, according to a high-ranking NFLPA official, was not communicated to the NFLPA executive committee until Saturday morning via phone.

Following that, a recommendation has to be made by the 32 player representatives, likely via conference call. As of late Saturday night, no time had been set for that vote, but it is expected to occur Monday after the executive committee votes to recommend approval, according to the high-ranking official.

The executive committee is also expected to vote to recommend recertifying itself as a union, according to the source. A recommendation also has to be made by the 32 player representatives on that count.

When the executive committee accepts the new CBA, players from certain teams will be granted permission to report to training camps Wednesday and players from other teams will be asked to report to training camps Friday, a source said. The hope from both sides is there are enough votes to recertify the union by as early as Friday.

For that to happen, a 50-percent-plus-one-vote majority of the players have to accept the NFLPA as its union and accept the terms of a CBA.

Much of the confidence in Monday's vote is due in part to the continued working relationship between Smith and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, a source said. The pair have been working with each other directly as the sides near an agreement and continued to do so through the weekend to ensure the remaining issues were resolved, according to a source. Edit by GP: This is important, because later in the article you read that Kessler has not had a good working relationship with the NFL. So was Kessler "bad cop" and De Smith "good cop?" Makes ya' wonder...

Edit by GP: And here is the players' "give" I spoke of earlier: Smith, a source said, has pledged to Goodell that he will also expedite the remaining issues before the first preseason game is played, creating optimism that those games will not be canceled. In that vein, Smith has personally taken on much of the work on the actual CBA-related documents, with his legal team, including NFLPA lawyer Jeffrey Kessler, assisting.

Edit by GP: Kessler doesn't play nice with others. According to the source, Smith took on this responsibility as a show of good faith, because the NFL's management council executive committee had been skeptical due to its prior experience with Kessler as legal counsel.

The NFL announced Thursday it would open its doors to players under contract two days after the NFLPA executive committee accepts the CBA and settlement terms from existing lawsuits. The league also said that free agency would start the day after the union is recertified.

Therefore, under this tentative schedule for recertification, the pre-league year buffer period could start Wednesday.

Under that scenario, teams could potentially open contract talks with their own unrestricted free agents, restricted free agents and draft choices Wednesday. However, no contracts could be signed until Saturday at the earliest. In that scenario, teams would also be able to renegotiate contracts with players from their own team starting as early as Wednesday.

Upon recertification of the union, free agency could start Saturday at 2 p.m. ET and rosters would be allowed to expand to 90 players.

It is still uncertain when teams would be able to sign undrafted free agents.

It was vital for the NFLPA to have enough time for recertification and have a period of time for the renewed union to work out final details of its benefit plans.

Only a union can negotiate benefits for its members and the NFLPA feared a Tuesday deadline to recertify would not leave enough time to properly negotiate changes in the benefits packages. Under terms of the owners' agreement from Thursday, players would have reverted back to the 2010 benefits plan if they didn't make adjustments within a certain time period.

As talks progressed Saturday, the sides removed one roadblock while moving the dial on another.

A league source said San Diego Chargers receiver Vincent Jackson, one of the 10 named plaintiffs in the players' antitrust lawsuit against the NFL, is now willing to release his claim without compensation, meaning no money or lifting of the franchise tag. Jackson was the last of the 10 named plaintiffs unwilling to drop his claim.

The sides also got closer to settling the $4 billion network television insurance case, according to a source....

Link to full article. (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6797238/2011-nfl-lockout-owners-players-come-deal-all-points-sources-say)

edo783
07-24-2011, 08:35 PM
GP, its not that Kessler doesn't play well with others it has been him trying to scuttle the whole thing from the git go so that he had a shot at getting the 30% he would get from a 12 BILLION dollar anti-trust lawsuit he wants to bring. Right from the git go he has been doing his best to push the players that way. As little as I think of De Smith, he at least a couple of weeks ago started pushing Kessler out of the way and got him to sign a flat fee for the negotiations. Personally, if I were the players, I would make damn sure Kessler had zero to do with any future negotiations. He drug this out for billing hours and was trying to set up the anti-trust deal and NEVER seemed to be working to move things forward in the best interests of his clients ... the players.

GP
07-24-2011, 08:42 PM
GP, its not that Kessler doesn't play well with others it has been him trying to scuttle the whole thing from the git go so that he had a shot at getting the 30% he would get from a 12 BILLION dollar anti-trust lawsuit he wants to bring. Right from the git go he has been doing his best to push the players that way. As little as I think of De Smith, he at least a couple of weeks ago started pushing Kessler out of the way and got him to sign a flat fee for the negotiations. Personally, if I were the players, I would make damn sure Kessler had zero to do with any future negotiations. He drug this out for billing hours and was trying to set up the anti-trust deal and NEVER seemed to be working to move things forward in the best interests of his clients ... the players.

I have a feeling THIS will be the last gig Kessler gets with NFLPA.

In 10 years, I doubt he's even on the radar.

Good details, edo! Thank you for sharing all that. Very enlightening.

I have learned SO MUCH about the NFL and the union and the CBA, etc., from this whole experience. Never knew this stuff before this year.

Allstar
07-24-2011, 09:09 PM
JasonLaCanfora
Email from Drew Brees to Saints players indicates "expected" deal and press conference Mon. Emails says its possible Tue/Wed/Th teams sign Their own players and that "the thought" is full free agency could start Fri, but Brees notes that's not final. The email notes the start Of the league year set for Sun 7/31 and says Saints will report 7/31 with a team meeting at 2pm. Full story on NFL Network and NFL.com

Nawzer
07-24-2011, 10:36 PM
Yay I predicted Monday we'd get this thing done!

Allstar
07-24-2011, 10:37 PM
De Smith and Roger Goodell would like to hold a joint presser tomorrow afternoon to announce ratified deal after vote... Camps to open Aug. 1, NFLPA wants free agency to begin ASAP


http://twitter.com/RavensInsider/status/95319769720422401
_________________

Allstar
07-25-2011, 12:10 AM
Ravens: Domonique Foxworth updates teammates on labor talks, upcoming schedule (http://www.carrollcountytimes.com/blogs/sports/ravens/ravens-domonique-foxworth-emails-teammates-on-labor-talks-upcoming-schedule/article_073f42a6-b66a-11e0-bca3-001cc4c002e0.html)

By Aaron Wilson, Times Staff Writer | 0 comments

OWINGS MILLS -- Updating teammates on the labor situation, Baltimore Ravens cornerback Domonique Foxworth outlined what they should expect after the NFL collective bargaining agreement is ratified.

Foxworth emphasized they should be prepared for a fairly chaotic transition from a lockout of four months to getting back to work. The labor deal is expected to be finalized as soon as Monday.

"I want you guys to be prepared for the possibility of this week being very crazy," Foxworth wrote in an email obtained by the Times. "None of this is set in stone, but this is how the week may look. Players who are on a roster may be asked to report Wednesday or Thursday. A report date will likely involve a full physical and possibly a conditioning test, but no practice. The next two days will be non-padded helmets only."

Foxworth added that teams won't get into full pads until the fourth day of training camp with very few padded practices until the end of the preseason.

As for free agency, Foxworth wrote: "Free agents may be able to talk to teams as early as Tuesday or Wednesday but not sign with the team or report to camp until after we vote to reconstitute the union, negotiate benefits and ratify a CBA."

It's going to be a flurry of activity as soon as the labor deal is ratified.

"The time crunch will be tough on all of us, but may work to the advantage of some free agents," Foxworth wrote."As I said, none of this is set in stone, but I want to give you guys the latest information so you can begin to plan."

According to a summary of the proposed collective bargaining agreement obtained by the Times, NFL practice guidelines are about to change significantly with fewer full-padded practices allowed.

There would only be 14 total padded practices during the regular season. That represents scaling back in a major way compared to previous years.

Eleven of those padded practices have to be held during the first 11 weeks of the season and teams can hold two padded practices during only one week. The remaining three can only be held during the final six weeks.

During the playoffs, just one padded practice per week is permitted.

Padded practices are limited to three hours.

During bye weeks, players must be given five consecutive days off.

During the preseason, there can only be one padded practice per day limited to three hours with the second practice up to a four-hour limit for a walkthrough session.

As for minicamps during the offseason, players can only be on the field for 3 1/2 hours per day with one practice per day up to 2 1/2 hours and the second practice limited to walkthroughs.

The offseason conditioning program is limited to nine weeks. It would be broken up into three phases.

The first phase is limited to strength and conditioning with only strength coaches allowed on the field. During the second phase, individual and 'perfect play' drills are allowed with no offense versus defense and all coaches are allowed on the field.

In the third phase that includes four weeks and 10 organized team activities, there's a maximum of three OTAs for the first two weeks, four for the third or four weeks and the other week designated for the minicamp.

There will be hefty fines for violations as well as losing workout times.

Coaches would be fined $100,000 for the first violation, $250,000 for the second.

And teams would be fined $250,000 for the first violation and $500,000 for the second one.

Bottom line: It's a new day in the NFL, one that's much less harsh on players' bodies.

EDIT: Brees sends another email, possible full free agency tuesday

Latest Brees e-mail suggests full free agency could start Tuesday (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/25/latest-brees-e-mail-suggests-full-free-agency-could-start-tuesday/#comments)



Saints quarterback Drew Brees has spent plenty of time composing e-mails to teammates of late. His most recent message, a copy of which we have obtained, suggests that full free agency could open as soon as Tuesday.

Here’s the full text of the message.

“As has been the case with this entire process, it looks like the details and schedule has changed for training camp and free agency,” Brees writes. “This is the latest although I cannot confirm anything at this point. I just want to make you aware as to what is being discussed so nothing catches you by surprise.

“Free Agency - It now looks like free agency will begin at noon on Tuesday and it will be open free agency. There will be no 3 day grace period for teams to sign their own players. It will be open for anyone to sign anywhere.

“Training Camp - It looks like the NFL is trying to force teams into camp on time. This would move us to a report date of Thursday, July 28. We would have physicals, conditioning, and meetings on this day. The day before would be a travel day and the hotel would be open that night for guys to check in as well as physicals but nothing mandatory until Thursday.

“I will keep you updated with the latest information. Unfortunately, it tends to change very quickly. Just stay prepared for anything.”

That last message applies to all of us, really. As the craziest week in recent memory comes to a conclusion, an even crazier week could be starting.

Allstar
07-25-2011, 05:03 AM
Well, looks like it's a done deal. Here are the details: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/07/24/labor/index.html

I'll edit tomorrow to quote it if things haven't taken off in this thread.

redwhiteANDblue
07-25-2011, 05:13 AM
ITS OVER!:hurrah:

Showtime100
07-25-2011, 05:32 AM
ITS OVER!:hurrah:

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r65/ShowtimeN15580/Pet%20Funny%20Misc/Michael_no_stop.gif

You'll jinx it. :winky:

BorrowMe
07-25-2011, 06:59 AM
It's all over! Thank you GOD!

TexansBull
07-25-2011, 07:58 AM
Well, looks like it's a done deal. Here are the details: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/07/24/labor/index.html

I'll edit tomorrow to quote it if things haven't taken off in this thread.

So who is responsible for telling Rick Smith? I don't want him to have to put away angry birds, but this may be kinda important for him to know.

BIG TORO
07-25-2011, 07:59 AM
:hurrah::turtle::ant::highfive::marionaner::clap:

pirbroke
07-25-2011, 08:04 AM
I can't wait for free agency this year and the few of ya'll that show up to training camp and give us your reports on this website, my favorite time of year because we ain't lost a game yet. I am so glad this is coming to a end.

TD
07-25-2011, 10:04 AM
Time to book my football trips. :)

HoustonFrog
07-25-2011, 10:15 AM
I just read this on MMQB with Peter King. I'm surprised. One thing people liked about Garrett taking over the Cowboys last season was he added some practices in pads to get guys a little tougher and used to gameday. Now this...Winston's comment can be seen both ways...you had the leading rusher but the team was soft and finished 5-11

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/07/24/labor/index.html?xid=cnnbin&hpt=hp_bn10

Padded practices. Teams can have 14 per regular season, including only three in the last six weeks of the season. Grumbling leaguewide has begun over the sissification of the NFL; coaches won't be able to toughen up soft teams anymore.

"Not sure this is a very big deal,'' Winston of the Texans said. "We had the leading rusher in the league last year [Arian Foster] and I bet we only had 17 padded practices all season.

HOU-TEX
07-25-2011, 11:31 AM
Breer's tweet

Just filed to NFLN: Final settlement document has been completed & is ready to go. The players will vote on it, presuming conf call goes OK.

The NFLPA's conference call with its player reps and executive committee is now underway.

Porky
07-25-2011, 11:46 AM
I don't want to say anything yet for fear of the Porky Jinx. :kitten:

gary
07-25-2011, 12:07 PM
The players vote today?

XI CMURDER IX
07-25-2011, 12:08 PM
The Texans and Jets training camps open last, on Sunday...

I actually kind of like this, because it allows the Texans to sign all their players before they go into practice and have a roster set!

HOU-TEX
07-25-2011, 12:10 PM
The players vote today?

Yes, the player reps are on conference call right now. Executive committee arriving there now

c10x
07-25-2011, 01:27 PM
The Texans and Jets training camps open last, on Sunday...

I actually kind of like this, because it allows the Texans to sign all their players before they go into practice and have a roster set!

Also, the Texans are installing a new defense. My guess is they want as many people who are likely to be on the team there for the very first classroom & practice sessions as possible.

False Start
07-25-2011, 01:33 PM
About damn time... :kitten:

CloakNNNdagger
07-25-2011, 01:58 PM
It's official, the lockout is over!!!!!!!!

AlbertBreer Albert Breer

Unanimous vote goes as a recommendation from the 32 player reps to the Brady plaintiffs, who have agreed to sign off on the settlement.

6 minutes ago

drs23
07-25-2011, 02:01 PM
It's official, the lockout is over!!!!!!!!

See False Start's post above this.

I agree.

Section516
07-25-2011, 02:01 PM
Lockout over. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6799301/source-nflpa-exec-committee-oks-deal

The NFL Players Association executive committee has voted to accept the labor settlement with the NFL, a source said Monday.

The vote was unanimous, the source said. The deal now goes to the 32 team player representatives for approval.

Dutchrudder
07-25-2011, 02:03 PM
It has been a wild ride, but I'm glad we're at the end of it!

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/GIFs/1267025904526-1.gif

Allstar
07-25-2011, 02:04 PM
Free Agency Tomorrow at noon Eastern time.

Dutchrudder
07-25-2011, 02:06 PM
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/GIFs/tumblr_ldp0jmKIrZ1qzsln6.gif

Section516
07-25-2011, 02:07 PM
Free Agency Tomorrow at noon Eastern time.

The NFL Players Association executive committee voted unanimously to accept the labor settlement with the NFL, NFLPA executive director DeMaurice Smith announced Monday.

Trades can be made beginning Tuesday and free-agent signings can be filed with the league office Friday at 6 p.m. ET, according to the timeline for league business to begin.

Teams may begin negotiating with unrestricted free agents beginning Tuesday.

A source at the highest-level had earlier told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter that those talks might begin as soon as Monday afternoon and the league year would have begun Aug. 2, if the NFL Players Association signed off on it.

NFL Transactions Analysis

The free-agent signings and trades will come fast and furious once the lockout ends. ESPN.com's division bloggers will react to all the big moves throughout this frenzied period. Blog

The updated timeline:

• Monday: The NFL will announce that teams can go to 90-man rosters and the official free-agent list will be distributed to teams.

• Tuesday: Trading begins. Teams can reach agreements with rookies and undrafted free agents beginning at 10 a.m. ET. Teams can reach agreements with all free agents and signed players are allowed to enter team facilities.

• Wednesday: Players can begin reporting to training camps 15 days before their first preseason games. According to the proposed timeline, 10 teams would report on Wednesday, 10 more on Thursday and 10 additional teams on Friday. The New York Jets and Houston Texans would be the last two teams to report, on Sunday.

• Thursday: Teams can begin to cut players at 4 p.m. ET.

• Friday: Teams can begin filing transactions to the league office at 6 p.m. ET.

• Aug. 4: Deadline for recertification and ratification of the collective bargaining agreement by the players.

The NFLPA executive committee began meeting at 11 a.m. Monday in Washington, D.C..

Mike and Mike in the Morning

ESPN NFL Insider Chris Mortensen says quarterbacks Matt Hasselbeck, Kyle Orton and Vince Young could all be playing for different teams this year. Plus, Mortensen says QB Brett Favre will not be coming back to football.

More Podcasts »

Smith, who hopes to mend fences with NFL's retired players, had a conference call Monday morning with the former players to share with them the gains that they made in this deal, including the unprecedented "legacy fund."

The final process for negotiating the new collective bargaining agreement will begin after the settlement agreement is passed and the NFLPA recertifies as a union. Benefits and health care, handling of grievances and the substance-abuse policy are all things that players will negotiate after they reform as a union, but the lack of a CBA will not hold up 2011 league business from beginning.

The NFL will hold two conference calls Monday afternoon, one for league general managers at 3 p.m. ET, and another for coaches at 5 p.m. ET, league sources told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter.

Owners overwhelmingly approved a proposal last week, but some unresolved issues still needed to be figured out to satisfy players; the owners do not need to vote again.

The major economic framework for the deal was worked out more than a week ago.

That included how the more than $9 billion in annual league revenues will be divided (about 53 percent to owners and 47 percent to players over the next decade; the old CBA resulted in nearly a 50-50 split); a per-club cap of about $120 million for salary and bonuses in 2011 -- and at least that in 2012 and 2013 -- plus about $22 million for benefits; a salary system to rein in spending on first-round draft picks; and unrestricted free agency for most players after four seasons.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6799301/nflpa-unanimously-approves-labor-deal

Allstar
07-25-2011, 02:15 PM
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/dance-party/dancing-baby.gif

TEXANRED
07-25-2011, 02:19 PM
Free Agency Tomorrow at noon Eastern time.

So at 10:59 am tomorrow all Texan fans will have built up excitement and anticipation. At 11:01 am Texan fans will swear off football and this team forever as Aso and Leach sign with different teams.

Marcus
07-25-2011, 02:20 PM
• Wednesday: Players can begin reporting to training camps 15 days before their first preseason games. According to the proposed timeline, 10 teams would report on Wednesday, 10 more on Thursday and 10 additional teams on Friday. The New York Jets and Houston Texans would be the last two teams to report, on Sunday.

Interesting. I wonder how this "timeline" was arranged.

MightyTExan
07-25-2011, 02:23 PM
http://i.imgur.com/VCHNb.gif

Goatcheese
07-25-2011, 02:25 PM
Interesting. I wonder how this "timeline" was arranged.

It's based on the preseason schedule. Camps will start 15 days before their first game.

Texans vs. Jets on Monday the 15th

keyser
07-25-2011, 02:27 PM
Interesting. I wonder how this "timeline" was arranged.

Texans and Jets play their first preseason game on Monday Night 8/15. Since camp is 15 days prior, they couldn't start any earlier than that.

edit: looks like Goatcheese beat me to it...

toronto
07-25-2011, 02:30 PM
One of my only posts in this thread.

PLAY ****ing ball :)

HOU-TEX
07-25-2011, 02:35 PM
Wow! I've never had so much fun reading Twitter since signing up. The players are giddy as hell right now. A lot of them are scrambling to head back to work, but loving it. It's great!

Dutchrudder
07-25-2011, 02:35 PM
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/GIFs/fat-kid-soccer-flash.gif

Allstar
07-25-2011, 02:40 PM
So should we start a new thread?

TD
07-25-2011, 02:47 PM
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/GIFs/fat-kid-soccer-flash.gif


lol...somebody has found his father's stash of Girls Gone Wild videos, but didn't quite grasp the concept.

drs23
07-25-2011, 02:59 PM
So should we start a new thread?

But, but, this one is All Encompassing! :D

Allstar
07-25-2011, 03:08 PM
But, but, this one is All Encomassing! :D

Yes, but this is the all encompassing lockout thread. The chains are broken! :wild:

Thorn
07-25-2011, 03:08 PM
I'm still not the least bit exicited by any of this. I'm sure once the first pre season game starts and I see the team in their uniforms hitting people, I'll feel different and some of the old "rah rah Houston Texans" will return to me.

I hope so at least. Right now I couldn't care less that this lock out is over with.

Shaft75
07-25-2011, 03:08 PM
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/GIFs/fat-kid-soccer-flash.gif

Dude, you so beat me to the punch with the gif!!!

http://i41.tinypic.com/14noi07.gif

valleytexfan
07-25-2011, 03:14 PM
<In Vandermeer voice> Rock and Roll!!! :fans:

hobie
07-25-2011, 03:15 PM
I'm still not the least bit exicited by any of this. I'm sure once the first pre season game starts and I see the team in their uniforms hitting people, I'll feel different and some of the old "rah rah Houston Texans" will return to me.

I hope so at least. Right now I couldn't care less that this lock out is over with.

I'm right there with you... to me, when the Commish said football is back, I was like, uhh... where did it even go.. we didn't miss anything, notta, nothing... oh yeah, a few OTA...and FA.. can't miss something we don't have a part in like going to games, which by my account, we never did... so, am I glad it is back.. heck, I never knew it left !

hobie
07-25-2011, 03:21 PM
So at 10:59 am tomorrow all Texan fans will have built up excitement and anticipation. At 11:01 am Texan fans will swear off football and this team forever as Aso and Leach sign with different teams.

Now that's funny !!!

SheTexan
07-25-2011, 04:09 PM
I'm glad it's over, but, I never had any doubt they would get the deal done before the season started. NO WAY those greedy bastards were gonna give up losing money! SO, it's just another day in the life of a diehard football fan to me. Let's get it on, IMHO!! The Jets game is the day before my birthday, and I'm gonna celebrate bigtime, preseason or not. I just wanna watch my team play football!!

Heath Shuler
07-25-2011, 04:15 PM
http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/355704814.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1311625508&Signature=B2ZW1M7lPNDBgR8eHHUfhdEVJYg%3D

politics makes strange bedfellows?




RIP Myra Kraft

Showtime100
07-25-2011, 04:18 PM
My "sports routine" went uninterrupted but when thinking of the NFL and having lived through other stoppages the cloud was looming this summer.

Now that it's done I feel I've gotten something back I never should have lost and hadn't wanted to use just yet. ^-----Having said that I'm still happy this crap is over. :hurrah: I even worried about what happens here if we didn't have football for another 365 days. I mean, you people are NUTS! :hides: :D

GP
07-25-2011, 04:50 PM
So...there are reports that teams are paying the salaries of the employees they had to furlough over this mess.

If I am an employee, I go and ask if they can pay me wages PLUS whatever percentage I pay on the credit cards I had to use while I was "on leave."

If my wages were $1,000 and I paid 10% interest while "on leave," then I want a total of $1,100 to make it right. I'm just sayin'.....

Is that legit thinking?

You know what? Screw this. Everybody stop right now. Put football BACK on hold. We need to get the employees handled in a more ethical manner before I can even begin to watching NFL once more.

Who's with me?!?!?!?? WHO IS WITH ME?!?!?!?

:cricket:

DexmanC
07-25-2011, 05:20 PM
So...there are reports that teams are paying the salaries of the employees they had to furlough over this mess.

If I am an employee, I go and ask if they can pay me wages PLUS whatever percentage I pay on the credit cards I had to use while I was "on leave."

If my wages were $1,000 and I paid 10% interest while "on leave," then I want a total of $1,100 to make it right. I'm just sayin'.....

Is that legit thinking?

You know what? Screw this. Everybody stop right now. Put football BACK on hold. We need to get the employees handled in a more ethical manner before I can even begin to watching NFL once more.

Who's with me?!?!?!?? WHO IS WITH ME?!?!?!?

:cricket:
:cricket::cricket::cricket::cricket::cricket:

GP
07-25-2011, 05:23 PM
:cricket::cricket::cricket::cricket::cricket:

LOL!

Bastards. You guys are all sellouts. Every damn one of ya'.

What about "the little man???" Few liberal Dems when it comes to the issue of putting football on hold for what is ETHICALLY RIGHT with the little man!

If Obama had just drunk a beer with Goodell and Smith, this would have been over long ago.

SheTexan
07-25-2011, 06:11 PM
So...there are reports that teams are paying the salaries of the employees they had to furlough over this mess.

If I am an employee, I go and ask if they can pay me wages PLUS whatever percentage I pay on the credit cards I had to use while I was "on leave."

If my wages were $1,000 and I paid 10% interest while "on leave," then I want a total of $1,100 to make it right. I'm just sayin'.....

Is that legit thinking?

You know what? Screw this. Everybody stop right now. Put football BACK on hold. We need to get the employees handled in a more ethical manner before I can even begin to watching NFL once more.

Who's with me?!?!?!?? WHO IS WITH ME?!?!?!?

:cricket:

Hell, I want my 1% regardless, just for the emotional trauma for the past four months!!:foottap::winky: I paid for my tickets ON TIME, reward me for being a loyal fan! A better deal would be to NEVER raise the price of my tickets!! How does that sound!! :hurrah:

Texecutioner
07-25-2011, 06:41 PM
Hopefully the new rookie wage scale makes rookies less rich when they haven't played a down yet and creates more room for teams to offer to trade for certain players in the draft.

The more I think about it, a 16 game season wouldn't be necessary, but I could totally do away with 2 pre season games or at least one. To many injuries in pre season.

The Pencil Neck
07-25-2011, 06:44 PM
Hopefully the new rookie wage scale makes rookies less rich when they haven't played a down yet and creates more room for teams to offer to trade for certain players in the draft.

The more I think about it, a 16 game season wouldn't be necessary, but I could totally do away with 2 pre season games or at least one. To many injuries in pre season.

I think they said it's going to cut some of those top rookie salaries in half. AND that money's supposed to be redistributed to vets.

The players want as few preseason games as possible because they don't really get paid for them and there's that risk of injury. Owners want as many preseason games as possible because they make more money than they do from a regular season game because there are no player salaries to pay. So that became a part of the negotiations.

Texecutioner
07-25-2011, 06:52 PM
I think they said it's going to cut some of those top rookie salaries in half. AND that money's supposed to be redistributed to vets.

The players want as few preseason games as possible because they don't really get paid for them and there's that risk of injury. Owners want as many preseason games as possible because they make more money than they do from a regular season game because there are no player salaries to pay. So that became a part of the negotiations.

Well the players dodged the 18 game season here. That would be cool for more football, but would cause more injuries going into the playoffs. Or it would help certain guys get healthy for the playoffs. You can look at it both ways. I hate to see records getting broken by guys who end up playing more games though.

The rookie players having their salaries cut in half is great news though as far as those top rookies. That was ridiculous. Matt Stafford has barely played and his salary has been one of the highest in the league I'm sure.

Showtime100
07-25-2011, 06:59 PM
Somebody e-mailed NFLN and said they can't wait for the Haynesworth fitness test. :spit:

TexanSam
07-25-2011, 07:56 PM
I even worried about what happens here if we didn't have football for another 365 days. I mean, you people are NUTS! :hides: :D

It would have been TexansTalk armageddon! I mean, at least we can all unite under the misery of being a Texans fan during the season. Without that...well the NSZ would be an even scarier place that it is now.

badboy
07-25-2011, 08:13 PM
In all these messages from different knowlegeable sources none show the salary cap limit? Hint at $120m but nothing firm? sheesh.

spurstexanstros
07-25-2011, 08:21 PM
The lockout is over and so is my self imposed exile...got a new job and now my team is back....i am soooo ready to grip it and rip it.

CloakNNNdagger
07-25-2011, 09:37 PM
It's interesting how the opt-out was nixed after the players adamantly wanted one.........It was nixed by the PLAYERS!

Albert Breer
AlbertBreer Albert Breer
RT @SI_PeterKing: So how did opt-out clause, which seemed so likely last night, disappear? Goodell dug in his heels early this morning ...

2 hours ago


Albert Breer
AlbertBreer Albert Breer
RT @SI_PeterKing: ... If 1 side had opt-out, then both should. Players thought it better to have no opt-out than to give owners chance at 1.

2 hours ago