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View Full Version : According to Adam Schefter: Patriots and Eagles looking to trade up


Tx Longhorn
04-25-2011, 05:43 PM
It's believed the Eagles could look to move up into the top ten to get Patrick Peterson or Prince Amukamara, while the Pats seem to be targeting Aldon Smith, Cameron Jordan or Tyron Smith.

Both teams have draft picks to spare and in the Eagles' case, they could dangle Kevin Kolb as bait to trade up with a team like Arizona or San Francisco, who are coveting QB upgrades.

From a Texan perspective, I'd not in the least be opposed to seeing to swap the 11th with New England and get the 28th and 33rd picks. Could take Aaron Williams at 28 and Brooks Reed at 33.. Or Justin Houston, depending on who falls.

I honestly could see the Cards and Eagles swapping picks with Arizona netting Kolb, a second and third.

kiwitexansfan
04-25-2011, 06:34 PM
Kolb could only be traded if the lockout is over by draft day.

Rey
04-25-2011, 06:56 PM
Honestly, I don't like trading down in this draft...Maybe the Texans have evaluated the players and feel their isn't much difference between the ones they covet later in the first round...

But I just don't like the idea of dropping down and picking up the best guy that falls to us...Unless of course they think that some of the guys slated to go later are actually better than some of the guys that will be available where they are at...

But just trading down and picking up the best guy that falls to you seems like FAIL. Especially when we are in need of differnce makers.

Not knowing how free agency is going to go, I would like to be more aggressive in the draft. If we are counting on a late first round pick, and a couple second rounders tho come in and play prominent roles I don't think we will be successful anyways. Those seem like great moves for the future, but we need to win immediately.

JimBaker488
04-25-2011, 09:02 PM
From a Texan perspective, I'd not in the least be opposed to seeing to swap the 11th with New England and get the 28th and 33rd picks. Kolb, a second
I think I'd also make that trade.

Lucky
04-25-2011, 11:28 PM
Could take Aaron Williams at 28 and Brooks Reed at 33.. Or Justin Houston, depending on who falls.
On paper it looks like a good deal. I just don't know if the Texans can get a top flight pass rusher that far down. I like some of the corners. But Duane Akina-coached CBs scare me. And at FS, Williams is a projection.

The more I look at it, I would be inclined to stay at #11.

Texecutioner
04-26-2011, 11:50 AM
On paper it looks like a good deal. I just don't know if the Texans can get a top flight pass rusher that far down. I like some of the corners. But Duane Akina-coached CBs scare me. And at FS, Williams is a projection.

The more I look at it, I would be inclined to stay at #11.

Why is that??

Michael Griffin has been a great player.

Aaron Ross has been a pretty good player.

Quentin Jammer has been one of the best CB's in the league I'd say for the most part of the decade.

Quentin griffin who was a 3rd round pick has been a servicable starter.

Nathan Vasher was pretty good for a few years, but I'm not sure what happened to him now.

On the other side............

Michael Huff has been a total bust for the most part

I don't know what Tarrell Brown is doing, but he might be starting for all I know.



So, you take into account that Michael Griffin and Jammer have been pretty outstanding and then a few others have been pretty nice starters I don't see what is to be afraid of really. Sure there have been some of those guys that didn't measure up, but I don't think there has been really a pattern to be afraid of anyone.

The1ApplePie
04-26-2011, 11:52 AM
Honestly, I don't like trading down in this draft...Maybe the Texans have evaluated the players and feel their isn't much difference between the ones they covet later in the first round...

But I just don't like the idea of dropping down and picking up the best guy that falls to us...Unless of course they think that some of the guys slated to go later are actually better than some of the guys that will be available where they are at...

But just trading down and picking up the best guy that falls to you seems like FAIL. Especially when we are in need of differnce makers.

Not knowing how free agency is going to go, I would like to be more aggressive in the draft. If we are counting on a late first round pick, and a couple second rounders tho come in and play prominent roles I don't think we will be successful anyways. Those seem like great moves for the future, but we need to win immediately.

If it was the 18th and the 33, then it might be worth it.

Trading down to the 28th essentially removes the Texans from a shot at the elite players

El Tejano
04-26-2011, 12:14 PM
this proves to me that the Texans have been serious about trading with Dallas and perhaps the only smoke screen is the players they have interest in.

Blake
04-26-2011, 12:22 PM
When 2 teams that are great on draft day want to make a deal, I hang up.

beerlover
04-26-2011, 12:30 PM
When 2 teams that are great on draft day want to make a deal, I hang up.

:phone:

BigBull17
04-26-2011, 12:48 PM
When 2 teams that are great on draft day want to make a deal, I hang up.

This. 1000 times this.

DocBar
04-26-2011, 12:49 PM
Why is that??

Michael Griffin has been a great player.

Aaron Ross has been a pretty good player.

Quentin Jammer has been one of the best CB's in the league I'd say for the most part of the decade.

Quentin griffin who was a 3rd round pick has been a servicable starter.

Nathan Vasher was pretty good for a few years, but I'm not sure what happened to him now.

On the other side............

Michael Huff has been a total bust for the most part

I don't know what Tarrell Brown is doing, but he might be starting for all I know.



So, you take into account that Michael Griffin and Jammer have been pretty outstanding and then a few others have been pretty nice starters I don't see what is to be afraid of really. Sure there have been some of those guys that didn't measure up, but I don't think there has been really a pattern to be afraid of anyone.You gotta remember, we're talking about Smithiak here, not a GM and HC with an eye for talent. :kitten:
They could screw up a one car parade on draft day or game day.

Second Honeymoon
04-26-2011, 12:57 PM
#11 is worth more than #28 and #33. I would take #17 and #33 though.

Unless Quinn is there at #11 or unless they are in love with Julio Jones at #11, I would like a trade down. They seem in love with Aldon Smith, but I don't want him at #11. We need guys with lean and speed, not another bullrusher at #11. He just smells like a JAG. Just another guy.

Quinn is special but has risks. They may have been burned by Cushing re:risks, so maybe they pass on him if available. I dunno. Getting more and more excited for this draft though.

Dutchrudder
04-26-2011, 12:58 PM
Value charting for trades 1st-4th round:

Houston picks (number - points):
#11 - 1250
#42 - 480
#73 - 225
#105 - 84
Total points: 2039

Patriots picks:
#17 - 950
#28 - 660
#33 - 580
#60 - 300
#74 - 220
#92 - 132
#125 - 47
Total points: 2889

-----------------------------

Trade 1 - Big swap:
If you were to take out the #17 pick, you would have 1939 points for the rest of the Patriots picks up to #125, then trade all of the Houston 1-4 picks (2039) and you're losing 100 points in perceived value, but picking up 6 players in the top 125 instead of 4. I doubt NE would go for that, but why not ask? We need more depth, and the 2-4th rounds offers a lot of solid backups and potential starters 1-3 years from now. Might be able to swap the Texans 6th for their 5th as well, but I'm willing to leave those points out there if we can get some extra picks in the process.

Trade 2 - Get a 1st and two 3rds:
Trade the 11th pick and a 5th (1287 points) for the Patriots #17, 74 and 92 picks - total of 1302. We get the better value of this trade by a small margin, but we come out with another 3rd in the process. The Pats can get the DE or OT they are looking for, and the Texans may be able to grab a good OLB at 17. Use the two 3rd round picks to help bolster whatever positions that have not been addressed at this point. Probably WR, S and NT.

Trade 3 - get a 1st/2nd/3rd:
Houston trades 11 & 42 (1730 points) for the Patriots #17, 33 and 74 picks (1750 points). Getting an extra 3rd is important, because we need to fill holes. Moving up to the top of the second round means we will have our pick of the litter on day 2, or more importantly, may have other teams calling about X player who fell out of the 1st round. It gives us a special opportunity to trade down again in the second and pick up another 3rd in the process. Of course this would take some shrewd GM work, but if it happened, it may save Rick Smith's job.

Second Honeymoon
04-26-2011, 01:00 PM
it is nice that it looks like teams are looking to move up into our range. i just worry about the current regime mortgaging draft futures, without worrying about the repercussions. after all, if this year sucks they will be gone and it would retard the development of the next regime.

just stay at #11 or trade down. no Ricky Williams type deals to move up. I love Ditka but that was a blunder..almost as bad a blunder as hiring MasterP to be your sports agent.

Texecutioner
04-26-2011, 01:04 PM
You gotta remember, we're talking about Smithiak here, not a GM and HC with an eye for talent. :kitten:
They could screw up a one car parade on draft day or game day.

Personally I don't see the Texans ever taking one of the UT stud DB's in the first round ever. They had a shot at Michael Griffin and passed him right up when we desperately needed a safety. I don't think that Earl Thomas was even on their radar.

fiasco west
04-26-2011, 03:58 PM
When 2 teams that are great on draft day want to make a deal, I hang up.

Not only do you hang up, right after that you draft the player they are after.

Also why every year does everyone want to trade down? I sort of agree with Rey, the Texans need a impact player on defense. Trading down lowers our chances of doing that.

Second Honeymoon
04-26-2011, 06:21 PM
Not only do you hang up, right after that you draft the player they are after.

Also why every year does everyone want to trade down? I sort of agree with Rey, the Texans need a impact player on defense. Trading down lowers our chances of doing that.

I think it's gonna be tough to find an impact player at 11 unless a Quinn or Julio drop. If they can still get their guy, like Aldon Smith, at 23 why not trade down?

There is a logic to not trading with Belichik but as long as it's for their earlier 1stRder, I would take the call and at least listen.

Texecutioner
04-26-2011, 08:07 PM
I think it's gonna be tough to find an impact player at 11 unless a Quinn or Julio drop. If they can still get their guy, like Aldon Smith, at 23 why not trade down?

I don't know about trading up. I agree with you that I'd hate to lose picks for next year's draft. I don't think trading up is worth losing a 1st rounder for next year.

There is a logic to not trading with Belichik but as long as it's for their earlier 1stRder, I would take the call and at least listen.

Do you honestly want Rick Smith anywhere near a negotiation with Bill Billicheck on draft picks? That would be like taking candy from a baby for Bill Billicheck. Hells no.

Dutchrudder
04-26-2011, 08:21 PM
I don't know about trading up. I agree with you that I'd hate to lose picks for next year's draft. I don't think trading up is worth losing a 1st rounder for next year.



Do you honestly want Rick Smith anywhere near a negotiation with Bill Billicheck on draft picks? That would be like taking candy from a baby for Bill Billicheck. Hells no.

Last year Houston traded the 62nd pick (Brandon Spikes) and 150th (5th round - Zoltan Mesko) to New England for the 58th pick (Ben Tate).

Not a great deal, but I think there was at least one other team vying for Tate after Gerhart went off the board.

Tx Longhorn
04-26-2011, 08:24 PM
I think the trade is contingent on who's available when the pick is made.

To me, Brooks Reed at 28 isn't THAT far of a drop in talent from Aldon Smith. At worst; Reed's work ethic, motor and football IQ will make him a guy who can net 7-8 sacks a year. At best, I see a lot of Clay Matthews in him. I doubt any of us would be too disgusted with this.

Smith is coming off a major injury and is virtually a pup in the game of football. Robert Quinn, another who MAY be there at 11, has looked like a beast on the gridiron, but that tumor scares the hell out of me.

Now if Prince Amukamara is there, all bets are off. I'm high on the guy, the Blackmon beating not withstanding. If Patrick Peterson by some miraculous stroke of luck falls to 11, obviously they'd be a fool to trade down.

I also just floated Williams' name up there. I'd not be opposed to seeing them go with Reed at 28, Phil Taylor or Stephen Paea at 33 and Brandon Harris/Curtis Brown with their second pick in the 2nd round.

My view this year anyhow is that it's such a deep draft defensively that outside of Von Miller, Peterson and maybe Amukamara, there's not much of a drop in talent between the names outside the top ten and the ones slated in the low 20s. I also don't think there's THAT far of a drop between Amukamara and Williams to be honest. One man's opinion though.

Tx Longhorn
04-26-2011, 08:29 PM
Michael Huff has been a total bust for the most part.

Perhaps I'm biased here, but I also think Huff's biggest failures have been because he's been put out of position. When the Raiders actually used him at CB and SS, he was pretty solid. However, at FS, something seems missing, yet Oakland kept putting him there thinking that's where his upside was best.

I agree with everything else you said though.

Lucky
04-26-2011, 10:28 PM
So, you take into account that Michael Griffin and Jammer have been pretty outstanding and then a few others have been pretty nice starters I don't see what is to be afraid of really. Sure there have been some of those guys that didn't measure up, but I don't think there has been really a pattern to be afraid of anyone.
Michael Griffin is a FS. Earl Thomas is also a safety and probably the best DB the Horns have sent to the NFL since Jerry Gray.

Jammer has been an average CB since he entered the league. He was overdrafted and has been overrated. Ross hasn't been a starter in 2 years. Cedric Griffin is similar to Aaron Williams in that he should probably be moved to safety. Again, Williams could be a good NFL safety. I just wouldn't want to project that with a high 2nd round pick.

Last year Houston traded the 62nd pick (Brandon Spikes) and 150th (5th round - Zoltan Mesko) to New England for the 58th pick (Ben Tate).

Win for Belichick. Spikes and Mesko would fill two holes on the Texans, right now.

Texecutioner
04-26-2011, 11:38 PM
Perhaps I'm biased here, but I also think Huff's biggest failures have been because he's been put out of position. When the Raiders actually used him at CB and SS, he was pretty solid. However, at FS, something seems missing, yet Oakland kept putting him there thinking that's where his upside was best.

I agree with everything else you said though.

I'm as big of a Huff supporter as you'll find, but lets cut to the chase here. The only people still trying to act like Huff hasn't been a bust are UT fans. I mean, I love the guy but it's been enough years now to write the guy off as a bust considering where he was drafted. He's had his chances at SS, FS, and at CB has he not?? He still isn't and never has been the bonafied play maker that he was expected to be.

Texecutioner
04-26-2011, 11:42 PM
Michael Griffin is a FS. Earl Thomas is also a safety and probably the best DB the Horns have sent to the NFL since Jerry Gray.

Jammer has been an average CB since he entered the league. He was overdrafted and has been overrated. Ross hasn't been a starter in 2 years. Cedric Griffin is similar to Aaron Williams in that he should probably be moved to safety. Again, Williams could be a good NFL safety. I just wouldn't want to project that with a high 2nd round pick.


Win for Belichick. Spikes and Mesko would fill two holes on the Texans, right now.

My point was that I don't think we should feel afraid of Duane Akina coached DB's based on history. I can see where you were going with this when you were initially making the statement and I do think there is some history of failure when it came to the NFL level there, but I don't think it's been all that bad. If we looked at every other college's top DB's that went early on in the draft in the last ten years I think that we'd see quite a few failures there as well. It's just that Texas has had so many talented DB's come out of their secondary that peaked at the right time going into the draft and they all had very high expectations.

c10x
04-26-2011, 11:43 PM
I'm as big of a Huff supporter as you'll find, but lets cut to the chase here. The only people still trying to act like Huff hasn't been a bust are UT fans. I mean, I love the guy but it's been enough years now to write the guy off as a bust considering where he was drafted. He's had his chances at SS, FS, and at CB has he not?? He still isn't and never has been the bonafied play maker that he was expected to be.

It's true that Huff hasn't lived up to expectations or draft position, but if you actually watched the games, you'd see that Huff actually put together a really nice 2010 season. He was selected as All Pro as well.

I don't know whether or not he continues to progress, or what, but lets at least be fair in the evaluation.