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DocBar
04-24-2011, 02:46 PM
This fits right in with what a lot of y'all say. Seems to be some truth to it. Enjoy the read.

http://houston.sbnation.com/houston-texans/2011/4/24/2130330/great-draft-results-or-not-the-current-texans-regime-isnt-building-to

CloakNNNdagger
04-24-2011, 02:56 PM
Thanks for the great read! It should be required reading for all MB members.

Would rep but must spread.

Wolf
04-24-2011, 03:24 PM
while I agree with the article it basically it sounds like we should trade everyone worth value and start over

bckey
04-24-2011, 03:31 PM
Great article from Chris. Sadly, I agree with just about everything in that article.

CloakNNNdagger
04-24-2011, 03:33 PM
This aspect is going to be a major so far minimized factor as to where our D goes.

On the field, the Texans simply aren't physical enough. We may be in for a bit of a sea change there on the defensive side, as stated previously because of Wade Phillips. However, his alleged confidence in Shaun Cody as a nose tackle in his 3-4 is a bad sign, if you ask me. I'm hoping that's still a smokescreen, and that the Texans are going to go after a road-grader at the NT position in the draft or free agency.

People like John McClain would counter that with "Wade likes undersized tackles like Jay Ratliff, he doesn't want a wide body!" My response to that is simple. The Cowboys also have DeMarcus Ware. Do the Texans have anyone even remotely approaching the outer rings of the universe of DeMarcus Ware as a rush linebacker? No, they do not. Not even close.

DocBar
04-24-2011, 03:38 PM
while I agree with the article it basically it sounds like we should trade everyone worth value and start overI didn't take that away from the article at all. Adding a few firebreathers and slobberknockerers to the mix can fire up the entire D, if not the team.

Blake
04-24-2011, 03:39 PM
That article could be written about alot of teams in the NFL.

"Baby steps don't cut it in the NFL. - maybe they COULD make the playoffs next year with a more physical defense and more consistent offense. But then what? Another season goes by. Maybe another wild card. Then another."

Even the Chargers could fall under this umbrella.

otisbean
04-24-2011, 04:21 PM
On the flip side look at teams like the Redskins, it seems every year they spend huge $$$, add players despite character issues and it's gotten them no where.

Our philosophy isn't wrong we've just made poor personnel/ assistant coach choices. Hopefully Wade will help and this draft will turn out well and we'll be heading in the right direction. As far as FA goes I would say most of the top teams in the league are conservative: Steelers, Colts, Pats, Ravens. Of the top teams only the Jets have been aggressive.

otisbean
04-24-2011, 04:29 PM
This aspect is going to be a major so far minimized factor as to where our D goes.

We definitely need a stud OLB to make this D run as it should, personally I'd draft 2 as insurance for Barwin. I do take exception to the article's assertion that we have no one close to D Ware. I think he's not giving Mario proper respect. I know Mario is playing as a DE, but I'd wager he'll still register double digit sacks provided he's healthy.

CloakNNNdagger
04-24-2011, 05:23 PM
We definitely need a stud OLB to make this D run as it should, personally I'd draft 2 as insurance for Barwin. I do take exception to the article's assertion that we have no one close to D Ware. I think he's not giving Mario proper respect. I know Mario is playing as a DE, but I'd wager he'll still register double digit sacks provided he's healthy.

Having a DOMINANT (not just adequate) NT would give Mario a heck of a boost in his potential.

CloakNNNdagger
04-24-2011, 05:36 PM
On the flip side look at teams like the Redskins, it seems every year they spend huge $$$, add players despite character issues and it's gotten them no where.

Our philosophy isn't wrong we've just made poor personnel/ assistant coach choices. Hopefully Wade will help and this draft will turn out well and we'll be heading in the right direction. As far as FA goes I would say most of the top teams in the league are conservative: Steelers, Colts, Pats, Ravens. Of the top teams only the Jets have been aggressive.

The Redskins may not be the best example in that they have had an owner who made so many dumb choices on all levels while spending like a
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcREodc3vgb43B-_NWpyQGTIzWjGnZNcV-8mBoxu5mZNH3byfhEc


I certainly agree that better personel/assistant coach choices are important from here on out with the Texans, and hopefully Wade, given loose reigns, will come up with distinctly better ones.

As for the other teams mentioned, for quite a while, they have been in a "maintainance" mode, rather than a perpetual building mode like the Texans. They don't need to be making spectacular moves. And they have a little more time to develop lesser personel up to the front lines.

Brisco_County
04-24-2011, 06:08 PM
This aspect is going to be a major so far minimized factor as to where our D goes.

It was a good article, but I can't completely buy the lack-of-physicality criticism for the defense. Should we consider Mario, Antonio Smith, Cushing, DeMeco, and (up until now) Pollard lacking in physical imposition? The problem was coaching, as exemplified by how none of our defensive players except Mario have improved from their rookie season.

otisbean
04-24-2011, 07:26 PM
The Redskins may not be the best example in that they have had an owner who made so many dumb choices on all levels while spending like a
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcREodc3vgb43B-_NWpyQGTIzWjGnZNcV-8mBoxu5mZNH3byfhEc


I certainly agree that better personel/assistant coach choices are important from here on out with the Texans, and hopefully Wade, given loose reigns, will come up with distinctly better ones.

As for the other teams mentioned, for quite a while, they have been in a "maintainance" mode, rather than a perpetual building mode like the Texans. They don't need to be making spectacular moves. And they have a little more time to develop lesser personel up to the front lines.

I agree about maintenance mode to an extent, I would just point out that most, if not all of their studs were acquired through the draft, which is our plan. Now, if we could kidnap one of their GMs... Lol

I do think, now more than ever we need to be aggressive in FA. In the past I thought we'd have to waaay overpay to get a top level guy. Now, with Wade coming in and a track record of top level offensive play I think we are a more attractive destination, at least that's my hope

otisbean
04-24-2011, 07:27 PM
Having a DOMINANT (not just adequate) NT would give Mario a heck of a boost in his potential.

Agreed, I'd love to add Dareus in the first rd. He could be a beast of an NT. Too expensive to trade though...

gary
04-24-2011, 07:44 PM
I don't really agree that the team hasn't ever been ever been tough enough but agree to extent.

Corrosion
04-24-2011, 07:52 PM
Not resigning Vonta Leach because they are cheap = Not building a championship roster. They need a half dozen more guy's like him ..... not less. :foottap:

gary
04-24-2011, 08:51 PM
They are just built to make the playoffs and that's all but so far they have not even done that.

steelbtexan
04-24-2011, 08:54 PM
Teams that are good are agressive.

Steelers-trade up for TP, Trade back getting more picks and Hampton.
Packers-Trade up for Matthews, Sign Woodson in FA
Saints-Sign Brees,Shraper,Shanle,Hargrove etc... in FA
Jets - Too many moves to talk about
Ravens-Trade up for Flacco,trade for Boldin,Wilson,Sign Stallworth in FA, Trade down for Cody/Kindle
Falcons-Sign Dunta/Turner/Peterson in FA, Trade for Gonzalez
Bears Sign Peppers in FA, Trade for Cutler

Not all of these moves worked out for these teams. But they were being agressive.

The Texans on the otherhand sit on their hands while Rome burns

gary
04-24-2011, 08:58 PM
Teams that are good are agressive.

Steelers-trade up for TP, Trade back getting more picks and Hampton.
Packers-Trade up for Matthews, Sign Woodson in FA
Saints-Sign Brees,Shraper,Shanle,Hargrove etc... in FA
Jets - Too many moves to talk about
Ravens-Trade up for Flacco,trade for Boldin,Wilson,Sign Stallworth in FA, Trade down for Cody/Kindle
Falcons-Sign Dunta/Turner/Peterson in FA, Trade for Gonzalez
Bears Sign Peppers in FA, Trade for Cutler

Not all of these moves worked out for these teams. But they were being agressive.

The Texans on the otherhand sit on their hands while Rome burns
Most of these moves have worked out quite nicely.

Rey
04-24-2011, 09:27 PM
I get a lot of what the article is saying....The Texans aren't aggressive enough, they aren't physical enough and they aren't tough enough mentally or physically...I agree with all of that...

But I think that the first step for this team is to get into the play-offs...They need to get that monkey off of their back...

I look at a team like Arizona, and they weren't really classified as physical...But they went all the way to the superbowl and they played a pretty good game against the Steelers...The Colts aren't really all that physical.....But they have a killer instinct...

I think that stuff comes with confidence. The Texans don't have that type of confidence.

CloakNNNdagger
04-24-2011, 09:34 PM
It was a good article, but I can't completely buy the lack-of-physicality criticism for the defense. Should we consider Mario, Antonio Smith, Cushing, DeMeco, and (up until now) Pollard lacking in physical imposition? The problem was coaching, as exemplified by how none of our defensive players except Mario have improved from their rookie season.

By the mere fact that our Dline specifically couldn't seem to overpower the opposing Olines makes for an overall evaluation of nonphysicality, independent of any inconsistent individual efforts.

gary
04-24-2011, 09:36 PM
Would McNair really try to sell making the playoffs as a victory to the fan base? Well, he has already tried to sell everything short of that as a win so I don't that one bit.

Rey
04-24-2011, 09:38 PM
I really don't care if we are not physical...I just want us to be good...

Norg
04-24-2011, 11:20 PM
i disagree with article

for one Greenbay patriots Colts and PIttsburg pretty much have the same model has the texans not big in F/A and a no CHar issue policy etc etc etc and TBO they seem to be doing pretty well

Look at the cardinals they dont see like a Physical team to me and they made it to the SB

and look all u got 2 do is punch your ticket in for the playoffs and anything goes after that

look at last year the seahawks punched there ticket in and Knocked off the Defending SB champs

DocBar
04-25-2011, 01:25 AM
It was a good article, but I can't completely buy the lack-of-physicality criticism for the defense. Should we consider Mario, Antonio Smith, Cushing, DeMeco, and (up until now) Pollard lacking in physical imposition? The problem was coaching, as exemplified by how none of our defensive players except Mario have improved from their rookie season.I wouldn't consider Mario, Ryans, Smith or Pollard to be "firebreathers". They have all the physical tools, but seem to be lacking that intangible that allows them to put a team on its back and carry them to victory. Mario CAN do that, but only seems to flash it after criticism or for prime time games. Maybe it's injury, I dunno that either. Who knows about Cush? Was '09 'roid rage in full bloom? Did the combination of a 4 game suspension, sophomore slump and playing a few games out of position make him think too much instead of just reacting? I dunno.
One thing is for sure, though. We now have the real deal at DC, with a proven track record. We will find out if it's nature or nurture, one way or the other.

otisbean
04-25-2011, 06:24 AM
Teams that are good are agressive.

Steelers-trade up for TP, Trade back getting more picks and Hampton.
Packers-Trade up for Matthews, Sign Woodson in FA
Saints-Sign Brees,Shraper,Shanle,Hargrove etc... in FA
Jets - Too many moves to talk about
Ravens-Trade up for Flacco,trade for Boldin,Wilson,Sign Stallworth in FA, Trade down for Cody/Kindle
Falcons-Sign Dunta/Turner/Peterson in FA, Trade for Gonzalez
Bears Sign Peppers in FA, Trade for Cutler

Not all of these moves worked out for these teams. But they were being agressive.

The Texans on the otherhand sit on their hands while Rome burns

Well, the Texans traded for Schaub, traded down and added extra picks in 08, and signed Antonio Smith to a hefty contract. They haven't sat on their hands, just made some bad choices, most recently going with an incredibly young secondary and a second rookie DC (bush).

Even the previous regime was aggressive, just not wise in the choices they made: Babin, Buchanon, Wade ect....

DocBar
04-25-2011, 12:18 PM
Well, the Texans traded for Schaub, traded down and added extra picks in 08, and signed Antonio Smith to a hefty contract. They haven't sat on their hands, just made some bad choices, most recently going with an incredibly young secondary and a second rookie DC (bush).

Even the previous regime was aggressive, just not wise in the choices they made: Babin, Buchanon, Wade ect....Aggressive and unwise could be characterized as stupid. :)

Hervoyel
04-25-2011, 01:12 PM
Can we look at the current Texans - or again, even the 2009 Texans - and say "you know, this team is really going to kick up the intensity and focus in the playoffs." Eh, I would guess not. Players talk about how much they love Gary Kubiak, and how they'd go to the mat for him - but the team doesn't back up those assertions with results on the field, similar to the Houston Rockets proclamation of their love for Rick Adelman, who they loved so much that they lost at home to Sacramento during a critical stretch late in the season.
So true. During the Kubiak regime (so far) there hasn't been a single Texan on the field (Andre Johnson excluded of course*) who even knew where the damn mat was.

Of course AJ knew before he got here. We always talk about how great he is but ultimately the one true sign of how great he is might be that he's maybe the only player in team history who arrived here and apparently was not affected by the Texans ability to coach whatever potential a player has right out of him. Sure Matt Schaub and some other players have improved since arriving. It's not as bad as we sometimes like to make it out to be. Still, no Texan has resisted the teams "talent disruption field" longer than AJ.

DocBar
04-25-2011, 01:15 PM
So true. During the Kubiak regime (so far) there hasn't been a single Texan on the field (Andre Johnson excluded of course*) who even knew where the damn mat was.

Of course AJ knew before he got here. We always talk about how great he is but ultimately the one true sign of how great he is might be that he's maybe the only player in team history who arrived here and apparently was not affected by the Texans ability to coach whatever potential a player has right out of him. Sure Matt Schaub and some other players have improved since arriving. It's not as bad as we sometimes like to make it out to be. Still, no Texan has resisted the teams "talent disruption field" longer than AJ.
I would have to add Demeco to that list. He's been damn good his entire career. Aaron Glenn was, also but he was a well established vet when he got here. But you're definitely right in that it's a very short list. Maybe

gary
04-25-2011, 01:34 PM
Robinson was another player and now we have Leach and Foster too.

Mr teX
04-25-2011, 01:38 PM
So true. During the Kubiak regime (so far) there hasn't been a single Texan on the field (Andre Johnson excluded of course*) who even knew where the damn mat was.

Of course AJ knew before he got here. We always talk about how great he is but ultimately the one true sign of how great he is might be that he's maybe the only player in team history who arrived here and apparently was not affected by the Texans ability to coach whatever potential a player has right out of him. Sure Matt Schaub and some other players have improved since arriving. It's not as bad as we sometimes like to make it out to be. Still, no Texan has resisted the teams "talent disruption field" longer than AJ.

Give me some other players who left the texans went to other teams & got better....immediately better. I'll give you a hint, There aren't many. That can only mean 1 thing..... they weren't that good to begin with.

We can say that about AJ b/c he's been a beast for us year in/out. But he was also arguably the top rated WR in his draft as well...we hit with him in the draft. Could you imagine how much worse we'd have looked over these years if we'd taken Charles Rodgers instead? All these other picks that are either no longer in the league or have been relegated to back ups on other teams proves that these guys were nothing to begin with so i can't blame it all on bad coaching....it's bad scouting more than anything else imo.

As far as the article is concerned...look we could & do sit in here pontificating about why we are in the state we are in but as i said in another thread, we just need to win. There have been plenty of "tougher" teams that haven't made the playoffs & likewise there have been "finesse" teams that have gone every year for the last 5 years. I don't care how they do it, they just need to get good & win.

DocBar
04-25-2011, 01:51 PM
Give me some other players who left the texans went to other teams & got better....immediately better. I'll give you a hint, There aren't many. That can only mean 1 thing..... they weren't that good to begin with.

We can say that about AJ b/c he's been a beast for us year in/out. But he was also arguably the top rated WR in his draft as well...we hit with him in the draft. Could you imagine how much worse we'd have looked over these years if we'd taken Charles Rodgers instead? All these other picks that are either no longer in the league or have been relegated to back ups on other teams proves that these guys were nothing to begin with so i can't blame it all on bad coaching....it's bad scouting more than anything else imo.

As far as the article is concerned...look we could & do sit in here pontificating about why we are in the state we are in but as i said in another thread, we just need to win. There have been plenty of "tougher" teams that haven't made the playoffs & likewise there have been "finesse" teams that have gone every year for the last 5 years. I don't care how they do it, they just need to get good & win.AJ is arguably the best receiver in the NFL, not just his draft. But I get your point.

CloakNNNdagger
04-25-2011, 06:44 PM
As far as the article is concerned...look we could & do sit in here pontificating about why we are in the state we are in but as i said in another thread, we just need to win. There have been plenty of "tougher" teams that haven't made the playoffs & likewise there have been "finesse" teams that have gone every year for the last 5 years. I don't care how they do it, they just need to get good & win.

And both of those types of teams that have been successful have had COACHES and PLAYERS that have been known for their FOCUS and DISCIPLINE on the field..........neither characteristics shared by the Texans thus far.

Rey
04-25-2011, 07:02 PM
Give me some other players who left the texans went to other teams & got better....immediately better. I'll give you a hint, There aren't many. That can only mean 1 thing..... they weren't that good to begin with.

If I'm not mistaken, under Kubiak the Texans have retained a great number of players that they've drafted...I think they were somewhere near tops in the league....

That said, a few of the players that we have released have actually gone on to show flashes or be more productive than when with us...

Texanmike02
04-25-2011, 07:14 PM
Give me some other players who left the texans went to other teams & got better....immediately better. I'll give you a hint, There aren't many. That can only mean 1 thing..... they weren't that good to begin with.

We can say that about AJ b/c he's been a beast for us year in/out. But he was also arguably the top rated WR in his draft as well...we hit with him in the draft. Could you imagine how much worse we'd have looked over these years if we'd taken Charles Rodgers instead? All these other picks that are either no longer in the league or have been relegated to back ups on other teams proves that these guys were nothing to begin with so i can't blame it all on bad coaching....it's bad scouting more than anything else imo.

As far as the article is concerned...look we could & do sit in here pontificating about why we are in the state we are in but as i said in another thread, we just need to win. There have been plenty of "tougher" teams that haven't made the playoffs & likewise there have been "finesse" teams that have gone every year for the last 5 years. I don't care how they do it, they just need to get good & win.

Teams that get to the playoffs and struggle can't win the big one.

Signed,
Indianapolis Fan

Hervoyel
04-26-2011, 02:15 PM
Give me some other players who left the texans went to other teams & got better....immediately better. I'll give you a hint, There aren't many. That can only mean 1 thing..... they weren't that good to begin with.

We can say that about AJ b/c he's been a beast for us year in/out. But he was also arguably the top rated WR in his draft as well...we hit with him in the draft. Could you imagine how much worse we'd have looked over these years if we'd taken Charles Rodgers instead? All these other picks that are either no longer in the league or have been relegated to back ups on other teams proves that these guys were nothing to begin with so i can't blame it all on bad coaching....it's bad scouting more than anything else imo.

As far as the article is concerned...look we could & do sit in here pontificating about why we are in the state we are in but as i said in another thread, we just need to win. There have been plenty of "tougher" teams that haven't made the playoffs & likewise there have been "finesse" teams that have gone every year for the last 5 years. I don't care how they do it, they just need to get good & win.

I've given this some thought and can't conclude that it "can only mean 1 thing". Think about this for a second. The Texans draft somebody and he has an unimpressive rookie season (for whatever reason). Do they cut him? Of course not. Not if they can help it. Draft picks don't grow on trees and the team was so thin when Kubiak got here that as long as a draft pick showed even a hint of life he got his rookie season for free.

Next year he's back and he has a better grasp of the system (such as it is here) and we get the "We're really looking for _______ to step up this year in camp and show us something" story from McClain or Justice. Now maybe he does step up (not likely) or maybe he doesn't (more often than not) but his competition is some rookies who suck like he did the year before, an old veteran or two (who chose to sign here instead of with the Patriots, Steelers, Colts, or Packers. Go figure), and that's about it.

My point is that by the time the Texans let go of somebody (unless they flushed him right out of the gate and then sometimes they still screw that up) do we really know that he was destined to be a lousy player? Isn't it possible that once the Texans coaching staff has spent 2-3 years with a player he's so far behind the curve and so full of bad habits that most teams aren't willing to go to the trouble of trying to fix him?

I'm speaking mostly about the defense of course. The two sides of the ball have very different personalities. On offense we turn chicken **** into chicken salad. We find mid to late round gems and undrafted free agents and get production out of them with Gary's patented system. On defense we do the exact opposite. There we hire dipsticks Gary thinks highly of to coach up players picked early with valuable draft choices we can ill-afford to miss on.

And it happened under Capers as well. The defensive stupidity I mean.

I think we make our share of bad picks but I also think we have ruined more than our share of players by not developing them. Few players get as much time or as many chances as Jason Babin did to recover from being a Texan.

Brandon420tx
04-26-2011, 02:36 PM
Give me some other players who left the texans went to other teams & got better....immediately better. I'll give you a hint, There aren't many. That can only mean 1 thing..... they weren't that good to begin with.

Tramon Williams

Although that's not really fair because the texans didn't really give him a chance, Babin has done well (at least better) as a 4-3 DE for other teams than he did as a 3-4 DE with us. Thats all I can really think of

Mr teX
04-26-2011, 02:39 PM
And both of those types of teams that have been successful have had COACHES and PLAYERS that have been known for their FOCUS and DISCIPLINE on the field..........neither characteristics shared by the Texans thus far.


But see you miss the point of that statement...doesn't matter what type of team they are (finesse or hard nosed) not all hard-nosed teams with focus & discipline make the playoffs & go on to dominate & not all finesse teams miss out on the playoffs.

Focus & discipline only come into play when you've got enough talent to get there. All the focus in the world wasn't going to propel a David Carr led team to the playoffs...extrapolate that to this years texans. The talent in our secondary simply wasn't going to allow us to get to the playoffs.

DocBar
04-26-2011, 03:03 PM
I've given this some thought and can't conclude that it "can only mean 1 thing". Think about this for a second. The Texans draft somebody and he has an unimpressive rookie season (for whatever reason). Do they cut him? Of course not. Not if they can help it. Draft picks don't grow on trees and the team was so thin when Kubiak got here that as long as a draft pick showed even a hint of life he got his rookie season for free.

Next year he's back and he has a better grasp of the system (such as it is here) and we get the "We're really looking for _______ to step up this year in camp and show us something" story from McClain or Justice. Now maybe he does step up (not likely) or maybe he doesn't (more often than not) but his competition is some rookies who suck like he did the year before, an old veteran or two (who chose to sign here instead of with the Patriots, Steelers, Colts, or Packers. Go figure), and that's about it.

My point is that by the time the Texans let go of somebody (unless they flushed him right out of the gate and then sometimes they still screw that up) do we really know that he was destined to be a lousy player? Isn't it possible that once the Texans coaching staff has spent 2-3 years with a player he's so far behind the curve and so full of bad habits that most teams aren't willing to go to the trouble of trying to fix him?

I'm speaking mostly about the defense of course. The two sides of the ball have very different personalities. On offense we turn chicken **** into chicken salad. We find mid to late round gems and undrafted free agents and get production out of them with Gary's patented system. On defense we do the exact opposite. There we hire dipsticks Gary thinks highly of to coach up players picked early with valuable draft choices we can ill-afford to miss on.

And it happened under Capers as well. The defensive stupidity I mean.

I think we make our share of bad picks but I also think we have ruined more than our share of players by not developing them. Few players get as much time or as many chances as Jason Babin did to recover from being a Texan.Damn. Good points, Herv. That's the same things as going to the driving range and whacking away with a horrible swing, expecting to get better if you just keep swinging. In reality, all you're doing is ingraining those bad habits further and further. I know from experience how hard those kind of bad habits are to break.

Mr teX
04-26-2011, 03:32 PM
I've given this some thought and can't conclude that it "can only mean 1 thing". Think about this for a second. The Texans draft somebody and he has an unimpressive rookie season (for whatever reason). Do they cut him? Of course not. Not if they can help it. Draft picks don't grow on trees and the team was so thin when Kubiak got here that as long as a draft pick showed even a hint of life he got his rookie season for free.

Next year he's back and he has a better grasp of the system (such as it is here) and we get the "We're really looking for _______ to step up this year in camp and show us something" story from McClain or Justice. Now maybe he does step up (not likely) or maybe he doesn't (more often than not) but his competition is some rookies who suck like he did the year before, an old veteran or two (who chose to sign here instead of with the Patriots, Steelers, Colts, or Packers. Go figure), and that's about it.

My point is that by the time the Texans let go of somebody (unless they flushed him right out of the gate and then sometimes they still screw that up) do we really know that he was destined to be a lousy player? Isn't it possible that once the Texans coaching staff has spent 2-3 years with a player he's so far behind the curve and so full of bad habits that most teams aren't willing to go to the trouble of trying to fix him?

I'm speaking mostly about the defense of course. The two sides of the ball have very different personalities. On offense we turn chicken **** into chicken salad. We find mid to late round gems and undrafted free agents and get production out of them with Gary's patented system. On defense we do the exact opposite. There we hire dipsticks Gary thinks highly of to coach up players picked early with valuable draft choices we can ill-afford to miss on.

And it happened under Capers as well. The defensive stupidity I mean.

I think we make our share of bad picks but I also think we have ruined more than our share of players by not developing them. Few players get as much time or as many chances as Jason Babin did to recover from being a Texan.

I hear ya hervy, but this is similar to something i've said in another thread.. to believe that the texans are in fact coaching players "down" is to believe that they are being grossly incompetent in doing their jobs....I'm talking on the level that all they're basically doing is telling their guys something like "just go out there & ball out fellas, don't worry about technique, coverage responsibilities & all that other technical crap" ....I find that hard to believe despite our results. They may not be very good coaches but i prefer to think (b/c it's down right scary to think otherwise) that is has more to do with the talent level of the player more than anything simply b/c talent will & does shine through....as long as there is enough of it there & it's given the opportunity to do so.

And as you know, you can fault the texans for many things, but one of the things the texans have done over the years (maybe to a fault) is give guys too much lattitude to develop when its apparent they aren't going to cut it.

DocBar
04-26-2011, 04:56 PM
I hear ya hervy, but this is similar to something i've said in another thread.. to believe that the texans are in fact coaching players "down" is to believe that they are being grossly incompetent in doing their jobs....I'm talking on the level that all they're basically doing is telling their guys something like "just go out there & ball out fellas, don't worry about technique, coverage responsibilities & all that other technical crap" ....I find that hard to believe despite our results. They may not be very good coaches but i prefer to think (b/c it's down right scary to think otherwise) that is has more to do with the talent level of the player more than anything simply b/c talent will & does shine through....as long as there is enough of it there & it's given the opportunity to do so.

And as you know, you can fault the texans for many things, but one of the things the texans have done over the years (maybe to a fault) is give guys too much lattitude to develop when its apparent they aren't going to cut it.

What have you seen to indicate that they aren't? Please, be specific. :kitten:

Second Honeymoon
04-26-2011, 05:38 PM
Example #1: brought Kubiak back
Example #2: brought Smith back

Bringing in Wade showed some level of commitment, so I will try and be optimistic about that. Finally some competent, experienced, and respected defensive leadership.

It will help because it's going to be a breath of fresh air for that locker room. Who knows? Maybe it all just magically comes together. We deserve better.

Rey
04-26-2011, 06:01 PM
I hear ya hervy, but this is similar to something i've said in another thread.. to believe that the texans are in fact coaching players "down" is to believe that they are being grossly incompetent in doing their jobs....

Mr. Tex...

Look at the results...

How can you not conclude that they have been grossly incompetent on the defensive side of the ball?

We've gone through 2 D-Coordinators, numerous position coaches, some awful awful players and we were one of the worst defenses to ever play last year...

There is no way that we cannot place some blame on the coaches for how some of the players have developed.

DocBar
04-27-2011, 05:49 PM
Mr. Tex...

Look at the results...

How can you not conclude that they have been grossly incompetent on the defensive side of the ball?

We've gone through 2 D-Coordinators, numerous position coaches, some awful awful players and we were one of the worst defenses to ever play last year...

There is no way that we cannot place some blame on the coaches for how some of the players have developed.No need to bring up facts. This is a popular opinion based forum. Get with the program!.

CloakNNNdagger
04-28-2011, 08:17 AM
Mr. Tex...

Look at the results...

How can you not conclude that they have been grossly incompetent on the defensive side of the ball?

We've gone through 2 D-Coordinators, numerous position coaches, some awful awful players and we were one of the worst defenses to ever play last year...

There is no way that we cannot place some blame on the coaches for how some of the players have developed.

Texans Historic Protocol for Building the Team

Bob (to Gary): Just get it done!

Gary: How?

Bob: I don't know......just DO IT!

********

Gary (to DC): Just get it done!

DC: How?

Gary: I don't know......just DO IT!

********

DC:(to Players): Just get it done!

Players: How?

DC: I don't know......just DO IT!

********

Players to Texans: Do WHAT?

Texans to Players: ANYTHING! Just DO IT!

Players to Texans: Gottcha!