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View Full Version : Up? Down? Or Stand Pat?


Shaft75
04-18-2011, 11:43 PM
Just wanted some opinions from y'all about how we should work the draft this year.

With a scheme overhaul and such a weak defense, we're lucky to have a draft that can provide some new defensive talent to work with. Do we move up to grab Peterson or Miller? Stand pat and maybe reach a little? Or move back to pluck a pass rush specialist and some areas of need guys?

I feel we need to move back. This draft is pretty heavy in pass rushing specialists. We can address maybe some dt or safety depth if we sacrifice our 11th pick.

And I know... We are going to need a trade partner. Who could it be and what could we get for our 11th pick?

And for the trade up crowd... What picks will we have to sacrifice to move up?

DocBar
04-19-2011, 06:26 AM
This is such a fluid situation, I find it hard to decide. I guess stand pat but be flexible.

Seņor Stan
04-19-2011, 06:52 AM
I think Minnesota and Miami drafting behind the Texans puts them in a really good spot for a potential trade down.

If one of the top prospects drops to where the Texans are, or if 3 QBs go in the top 10 and Miami gets antsy and wants to trade up then the Texans are in a sellers market.

Based off value charts, the Dolphins would have to give up a 3rd. I could even see trading 1 spot with Minnesota and picking up a 3rd or 4th round pick so they could ensure they got the QB they wanted. That would be a great move because it would be a no risk deal where the Texans would still get the guy they wanted at 11 in the 12 spot.

DocBar
04-19-2011, 09:20 AM
I think Minnesota and Miami drafting behind the Texans puts them in a really good spot for a potential trade down.

If one of the top prospects drops to where the Texans are, or if 3 QBs go in the top 10 and Miami gets antsy and wants to trade up then the Texans are in a sellers market.

Based off value charts, the Dolphins would have to give up a 3rd. I could even see trading 1 spot with Minnesota and picking up a 3rd or 4th round pick so they could ensure they got the QB they wanted. That would be a great move because it would be a no risk deal where the Texans would still get the guy they wanted at 11 in the 12 spot.A scenario like that makes sense.

HOU-TEX
04-19-2011, 09:30 AM
Trade down, if not, stand pat. However, I don't think there's going to be a lot of moving around this year. I think teams might be holding draft picks a bit tighter to their chest than in the past. The Patriots have around 50 picks so they might move a little, but doubtful

Ole Miss Texan
04-19-2011, 09:47 AM
I think if there is a prospect that the FO really really likes then we take him at #11. If it's looking like we may not have that opportunity or we may not get the value we like out of it, I'd be on the phone calling some other teams and telling them I'm open to trading down.

Virtually every team immediately behind us could probably use a good DE/Pass Rusher. Or there could be all the OT's still on board. If some team is enamored with a guy they may need to trade up for him. The 11th overall is not a bad spot to go to if you think you're getting yourself a franchise LT or DE.

awtysst
04-19-2011, 10:43 AM
There are too many holes on this team to fill. Trade back, pick up an extra pick or two and go get some players!

Dutchrudder
04-19-2011, 11:22 AM
I think we can fill our needs without moving around in the 1st. Just gotta hope the chips fall the right way.

ArlingtonTexan
04-19-2011, 11:29 AM
This is such a fluid situation, I find it hard to decide. I guess stand pat but be flexible.

This is always the answer.

eriadoc
04-19-2011, 11:40 AM
Trade down or stand pat. The Texans are not merely one or two players from winning it all. They are at least half a defense from winning it all. They don't need one impact player, they need a couple impact players and a couple solid players. They need to hit this draft like they did in '06.

Corrosion
04-19-2011, 01:13 PM
Trade up or trade back - standing pat I dont see much value at 11.

Trading up using only future picks if at all possible. There are too many holes to fill to give up picks in this draft.

Trading back is probably the ideal situation but who's your target and who's your trade partner?


Again , at 11 I see little value , the top prospects are gone and those that remain are very close in talent thru the middle of round two.

Seņor Stan
04-19-2011, 01:30 PM
Trade up or trade back - standing pat I dont see much value at 11.

Trading up using only future picks if at all possible. There are too many holes to fill to give up picks in this draft.

Trading back is probably the ideal situation but who's your target and who's your trade partner?


Again , at 11 I see little value , the top prospects are gone and those that remain are very close in talent thru the middle of round two.

NO.

What you do is go corner with your first pick and then trade back into the first with your 2nd 3rd and 4th round picks to get that tweener rush linebacker you covet. Also swap 5ths just to make sure you can seal the deal. With a division rival. That is all.

Sincerely,

Charles Casserly

Goatcheese
04-19-2011, 01:43 PM
I would trade up and get a guy I love like Miller or Peterson. Most of the talent outside of my top 5 have huge questions about them.

This team is in desperate need of playmakers that can completely change a game. They have plenty of 'whatever' blue collar guys to surround them with already on the team, so having another mid round pick does nothing for me.

The1ApplePie
04-19-2011, 01:47 PM
If Miller or Peterson drop, trade up.

The Texans apparently interviewed Bowers (according to the radio this morning) and if they like him, maybe he drops.

They need a game-changer, not a few more medicore pieces.

Ole Miss Texan
04-19-2011, 01:55 PM
NO.

What you do is go corner with your first pick and then trade back into the first with your 2nd 3rd and 4th round picks to get that tweener rush linebacker you covet. Also swap 5ths just to make sure you can seal the deal. With a division rival. That is all.

Sincerely,

Charles Casserly

I see what you did there. :foottap:

TexCanada
04-19-2011, 03:12 PM
I picked stand pat because I don't think a trade down will be available.

HTown2ATX
04-19-2011, 03:19 PM
Voted stand pat only because I don't know who they have targeted though I can guess....

This is not the year to hold back IMO. We need at least 1 sure fire pick as opposed to 4 medium picks if that makes sense. The time to win is now for this regime.

Moving down seems more to me to build for the future, which there is none if this team loses this year like they did last year.

All chips down IMO. If they want someone, they need to go balls out and get him. This moving down to get quantity over quality is fine if we were even close as a frnachise to doing jack squat and had a nother year or 2 on the ol 5 year plan.

This is year 6 in the 5 year plan = FAIL

No more waiting....sorry.....

So, I think they may need to move up, and I wouldn't mind seeing them do that. However, who they want may fall to them, so that is why I put stand pat.

If Miller or Peterson drop, trade up.

The Texans apparently interviewed Bowers (according to the radio this morning) and if they like him, maybe he drops.

They need a game-changer, not a few more medicore pieces.

^^^THIS

drs23
04-19-2011, 05:20 PM
I picked stand pat because I don't think a trade down will be available.

I'm gonna respectfully disagree. I think there'll be more movment than Granny's junk in the trunk. :D

Wolf6151
04-19-2011, 06:01 PM
It all depends on who's available to us. If Peterson falls to #6, then go get him because San Fran. will surely take him at #7. If Amukamara and Quinn are gone then trade down to about #20 for an extra 2nd round pick and pick Justin Houston in the 1st round. If Amukamara or Quinn are available at #11 then take Amukamara.

Like DocBar said it's a fluid situation. As a GM you have to constantly be alert and thinking, which means we're screwed.

disaacks3
04-19-2011, 06:10 PM
If Miller or Peterson drop, trade up.

The Texans apparently interviewed Bowers (according to the radio this morning) and if they like him, maybe he drops.

They need a game-changer, not a few more medicore pieces. Your scenario gets my vote.

drs23
04-19-2011, 06:11 PM
It all depends on who's available to us. If Peterson falls to #6, then go get him because San Fran. will surely take him at #7. If Amukamara and Quinn are gone then trade down to about #20 for an extra 2nd round pick and pick Justin Houston in the 1st round. If Amukamara or Quinn are available at #11 then take Amukamara.

Like DocBar said it's a fluid situation. As a GM you have to constantly be alert and thinking, which means we're screwed.

Fluid situation, most assuredly. I don't think Prince is all that. IMO I was really warming up to Quinn but all the talking heads I've listened to say he won't transition well from hand in the dirt to space. What do you folks think? Obviously there are two camps. Just trying to get a handle on if you guys think he can or can't.

Yankee_In_TX
04-19-2011, 06:29 PM
I think we should move BACK - not sure if I voted right based on that.

Hagar
04-19-2011, 06:46 PM
The only thing I'm going to say is that someone always falls in the draft. The Texans have to be ready for any scenerio. If Miller or Peterson fall below say the 5th pick, we will want to know what are our options.

steelbtexan
04-19-2011, 07:06 PM
Just wanted some opinions from y'all about how we should work the draft this year.

With a scheme overhaul and such a weak defense, we're lucky to have a draft that can provide some new defensive talent to work with. Do we move up to grab Peterson or Miller? Stand pat and maybe reach a little? Or move back to pluck a pass rush specialist and some areas of need guys?

I feel we need to move back. This draft is pretty heavy in pass rushing specialists. We can address maybe some dt or safety depth if we sacrifice our 11th pick.

And I know... We are going to need a trade partner. Who could it be and what could we get for our 11th pick?

And for the trade up crowd... What picks will we have to sacrifice to move up?

I would sign ASO in FA. If he didn't want to sign then I would target Taylor.

Then trading up to 5/7 and taking Peterson would be the way I would go.

Trading #11 and #43, plus a 2012 3rd. for Peterson.

Rd.1 Peterson
Rd.3 C.Carter or Moch
Rd.4 Powe or Williams
Rd.5 Culliver or Clifford
Rd.6. Scott Lutrus or Akeem Dent

The Secondary would be much better and Faster. Taylor-Quin-Culliver-Peterson.

A LB corps of Barwin- Cushing-Ryans-Carter or Moch would also be a great improvement.

This would add much needed speed that was sorely needed in last yrs defense.

steelbtexan
04-19-2011, 07:08 PM
The only thing I'm going to say is that someone always falls in the draft. The Texans have to be ready for any scenerio. If Miller or Peterson fall below say the 5th pick, we will want to know what are our options..

Agreed

If this happens the Texans need to be agressive and add one of these premium playmakers. That the defense was lacking last yr.

Wolf6151
04-19-2011, 09:52 PM
Fluid situation, most assuredly. I don't think Prince is all that. IMO I was really warming up to Quinn but all the talking heads I've listened to say he won't transition well from hand in the dirt to space. What do you folks think? Obviously there are two camps. Just trying to get a handle on if you guys think he can or can't.


Amongst the 1st round DE prospects trying to transition to OLB (Quinn, Kerrigan, A. Smith, etc...) I think Quinn has the best chance of success. Kerrigan is to slow and is a 4-3 LDE, and Smith is a 4-3 RDE who should have stayed in school another year and been a top 10 pick in 2012. I think the best 2 candidates that we have a shot at for OLB in the 1st round are Quinn and Houston. If Amukamara were gone and Quinn is available in the 1st then I'd take him. I'd want him to lose about 10-15 lbs. and hopefully gain some quickness. Quinns downfall in transitioning to OLB will be in pass coverage or in space and again losing some weight/gaining some quickness can only help here. I think he can make the transition to OLB.

mussop
04-20-2011, 12:45 AM
Amongst the 1st round DE prospects trying to transition to OLB (Quinn, Kerrigan, A. Smith, etc...) I think Quinn has the best chance of success. Kerrigan is to slow and is a 4-3 LDE, and Smith is a 4-3 RDE who should have stayed in school another year and been a top 10 pick in 2012. I think the best 2 candidates that we have a shot at for OLB in the 1st round are Quinn and Houston. If Amukamara were gone and Quinn is available in the 1st then I'd take him. I'd want him to lose about 10-15 lbs. and hopefully gain some quickness. Quinns downfall in transitioning to OLB will be in pass coverage or in space and again losing some weight/gaining some quickness can only help here. I think he can make the transition to OLB.

Really?
40 yard dash
Kerrigan 4.71
Quin 4.70

This notion that Karrigan is just an un athletic hustle player is ridiculous. He compares athletically with Quin and Smith and any other DE/OLB in this draft.
Same goes for JJ Watt and the other 5 teqs. In fact his numbers compare very favorably to Mario Williams combine results. Hate to say it but, you have to wonder if both of these guys were black if they would have the same stigma surrounding their name.

Wolf6151
04-20-2011, 06:27 AM
Really?
40 yard dash
Kerrigan 4.71
Quin 4.70

This notion that Karrigan is just an un athletic hustle player is ridiculous. He compares athletically with Quin and Smith and any other DE/OLB in this draft.
Same goes for JJ Watt and the other 5 teqs. In fact his numbers compare very favorably to Mario Williams combine results. Hate to say it but, you have to wonder if both of these guys were black if they would have the same stigma surrounding their name.


I guess maybe I worded it wrong when I say slow I don't mean straight line speed, I'm talking first step explosiveness off the line of scrimmage. I'd like to see all these players 10 yd. splits from the Combine but don't know where to find it. I think Kerrigan can be a very good DE, I just don't see him as a 3-4 OLB.

rmartin65
04-20-2011, 08:19 AM
I guess maybe I worded it wrong when I say slow I don't mean straight line speed, I'm talking first step explosiveness off the line of scrimmage. I'd like to see all these players 10 yd. splits from the Combine but don't know where to find it. I think Kerrigan can be a very good DE, I just don't see him as a 3-4 OLB.

10 yard splits:

Watt- 1.64
Kerrigan- 1,61
Smith- 1.66
Quinn- 1.61

bah007
04-20-2011, 09:10 AM
The idea that Kerrigan is slow or lacks quickness is ridiculous. I honestly think the only reason for a comment like that is because he is a white guy from Purdue with a great work ethic and a nonstop motor. Let's face the music right here for a second. For the great majority of cases, white athletes are not as explosive as black athletes. Fact. But that does not mean that just because a guy is white he cannot be a great athlete. And there seems to be a stereotype against guys who work hard. Like that is the only reason they are successful. As hard as it is to believe, a guy can be a great athlete and still work his ass off.

Kerrigan has been facing double teams for the last two years. He is basically the ONLY player on his defense worth anything. And he still gets it done. In three years as a starter he had 33.5 sacks, 57 TFLs, and forced 14 fumbles. In the Big Ten.

Now, stats aren't everything. But when you are the only guy on your unit who makes plays then people will probably gameplan for you. And when your numbers only continue to get better after that then you might be pretty good. This guy sacked Denard Robinson FOUR times this year. Now everybody knows that Michigan sucks, but if this guy is such a poor athlete, then how did he take down the NCAA's best running QB in space four different times? Robinson was only sacked 7 times in the other 12 games he played! Kerrigan also sacked Terrelle Pryor three times last year and has six total sacks on him in the three times they have played each other.

Nobody who has actually studied Kerrigan on tape will tell you that he lacks explosiveness and athleticism. What they will tell you is they see a guy who is a great, but not elite, athlete who has an elite attitude and works his ass off to make himself an elite player.

This is just my philosophy, but I'll take an elite football player over an elite athlete every time.

The1ApplePie
04-20-2011, 11:21 AM
The best case scenario would be Bowers dropping to the Texans.

Either:

1. They take him
2. Or they trade the pick to the Lions or Bucs that want to jump over the Vikes. Texans take Aldon Smith

HOU-TEX
04-20-2011, 11:55 AM
The idea that Kerrigan is slow or lacks quickness is ridiculous. I honestly think the only reason for a comment like that is because he is a white guy from Purdue with a great work ethic and a nonstop motor. Let's face the music right here for a second. For the great majority of cases, white athletes are not as explosive as black athletes. Fact. But that does not mean that just because a guy is white he cannot be a great athlete. And there seems to be a stereotype against guys who work hard. Like that is the only reason they are successful. As hard as it is to believe, a guy can be a great athlete and still work his ass off.

Kerrigan has been facing double teams for the last two years. He is basically the ONLY player on his defense worth anything. And he still gets it done. In three years as a starter he had 33.5 sacks, 57 TFLs, and forced 14 fumbles. In the Big Ten.

Now, stats aren't everything. But when you are the only guy on your unit who makes plays then people will probably gameplan for you. And when your numbers only continue to get better after that then you might be pretty good. This guy sacked Denard Robinson FOUR times this year. Now everybody knows that Michigan sucks, but if this guy is such a poor athlete, then how did he take down the NCAA's best running QB in space four different times? Robinson was only sacked 7 times in the other 12 games he played! Kerrigan also sacked Terrelle Pryor three times last year and has six total sacks on him in the three times they have played each other.

Nobody who has actually studied Kerrigan on tape will tell you that he lacks explosiveness and athleticism. What they will tell you is they see a guy who is a great, but not elite, athlete who has an elite attitude and works his ass off to make himself an elite player.

This is just my philosophy, but I'll take an elite football player over an elite athlete every time.

Well said, bah. Gotta spread the rep 1st

bah007
04-20-2011, 12:03 PM
The best case scenario would be Bowers dropping to the Texans.

Either:

1. They take him
2. Or they trade the pick to the Lions or Bucs that want to jump over the Vikes. Texans take Aldon Smith

I think you're right. Tampa Bay needs pass rushers bad. And if Bowers fell to us they would probably find it worth their while to make the trade.

If we were sitting at #20 though, I'm looking at Justin Houston instead of Smith. Just my personal preference.

steelbtexan
04-20-2011, 12:41 PM
Houston/Reed should be considered at 11.

Give me a great player. I'm not as concerned with the thought of value.

Guys like McShay/Kiper/Mayock dont set the value of a player, teams do. But if Reed/Houston were selected at 11 I wouldn't be upset. But I can hear the media now talking about how bad the Texans draft was. Because some know it all like Kiper said so.

steelbtexan
04-21-2011, 03:17 PM
The reason to trade up for Peterson or Miller is they are as sure a thing as there in this draft.

I have no confidence if the Rick and Gary make picks at 11 and 43 they will get playmakers. With Peterson and Miller I know they got atleast 1 playmaker.

I mean would you rather draft as rumored Aldon Smith at 11 and another maybe like Rahim Moore at 43 vs Miller or Peterson.

Rick and Garys draft history stinks.

Ole Miss Texan
04-21-2011, 03:56 PM
The reason to trade up for Peterson or Miller is they are as sure a thing as there in this draft.

I have no confidence if the Rick and Gary make picks at 11 and 43 they will get playmakers. With Peterson and Miller I know they got atleast 1 playmaker.

I mean would you rather draft as rumored Aldon Smith at 11 and another maybe like Rahim Moore at 43 vs Miller or Peterson.

Rick and Garys draft history stinks.

I'd rather have Cameron Jordan + Sam Acho + 2012 2nd/3rd round pick than Von Miller/Patrick Peterson. But I know that's not a popular opinion. :cool:

kiwitexansfan
04-21-2011, 04:00 PM
I'd rather have Cameron Jordan + Sam Acho + 2012 2nd/3rd round pick than Von Miller/Patrick Peterson. But I know that's not a popular opinion. :cool:

Make that Watt + Acho + pick and you have a deal. Especially for Miller.

kiwitexansfan
04-21-2011, 04:18 PM
Make that Watt + Acho + pick and you have a deal. Especially for Miller.

All these tasty prospects is starting to get me all fired up for the draft. Only 1 week to go people.

Knowing the Texans though we'll probably come away with Gabe Carimi and Jonathon Baldwin.......

beerlover
04-22-2011, 01:53 PM
I'd rather have Cameron Jordan + Sam Acho + 2012 2nd/3rd round pick than Von Miller/Patrick Peterson. But I know that's not a popular opinion. :cool:

I like the way you think :bluesbro:

It would be a crying shame if Texans don't come away with one of this years premium 3-4 DE's. Besides Watt & Jordan I also like Cameron Heyward & Muhammad Wilkerson. Only Jordan @ #11, Watt @ #15 Heyward @ #18 & Wilkerson in the 20's (at least that's how they rank on my board).

Then they get that pass rushing DE/OLB in 2nd. or possibly move back up late first to get a Brooks Reed/Justin Houston?

In my final mock I choose Sheard over Acho. Jabaal is just tough as nails, slightly larger frame, sets the edge better, his off field issue was cleared up & received A+ marks going forward. I think he will be the surprise OLB of this class if a 3-4 team drafts him.

BigBull17
04-26-2011, 11:03 AM
This is a draft where you trade up or trade down