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beerlover
04-17-2011, 02:58 PM
My draft partners want no part of this one but who could blame them, this draft stuff has finally pushed me over the edge :crazy: many would argue for some time now :um: but that's what makes it fun or maybe its the double bastard :wesmantexanfan:

On a serious note, in my last mock of 2011, I've addressed as many needs as possible which I feel are critical moving forward into Wade Phillips 3-4 scheme. Adding a big proto-typical press corner, athletic pass rushing DE to convert (OLB) monster pocket run stuffer @ nose, two safeties each who will compete for starting positions @ SS & FS, depth @ OLB & ILB, replacement punter & developmental QB for Kubiak to groom.

1. Cameron Jordan, DE, California, 6040 287 (Traded to San Diego for picks #18 & #50)

Man Crush aside, I think the Texans use him as trade bait. He is perfect fit here or for any 3-4 team needing premier DE who can press the corner, attack the QB, filter through trash & make plays next level. I even feel he can be moved around including OLB position standing up both as edge pass rusher & in coverage. The physical attributes he inherited from his dad Steve ( Pro-Bowl TE) are undeniable, for anybody who watched him destroy blocks & force defensive players to run away from him know what Im talking about one word describes his dad was fierce competitor I see the same things with young Cameron his personality is more his moms, but the inner drive & ability is all there.

1A. Jimmy Smith, CB, Colorado, 6022 211(via San Diego #18)

All that will matter end of the day is fixing secondary needs & I dont want to miss taking a prospect with such a high ceiling, despite off field issues, who could transition to the NFL as the next Darrelle Revis type of press corner. Ive not seen his name mentioned on the Texans board but when I compare tape of him to Prince Amukamara I see a more prototypical NFL corner who has the size, athletic ability & technique to mirror the bigger & faster NFL WR's. Are there issues & risks? heck yes but despite all the warts Jimmy Smith may wind up being the premier CB in this draft, much better all-around measureable than Devin McCourty too who I had mocked to Texans last year. This is a hard pick to make, trust me, the interview session would be a critical missing ingredient I do not have access to but all accounts suggest hes cleaned up his act & is ready to become a serious pro moving forward.

2A. Jabaal Sheard, OLB, Pittsburgh, 6027 264

Really wanted Brooks Reed, ready to pull the trigger if he falls past the 1st but doubt he gets by all those 3-4 teams who need OLB help/fortification. Sheard background checks have cleared (which should satisfy Texans FO). Ideal size for DE to project as a 3-4 OLB in the NFL. Natural pass rusher who can bend & skim the edge showing flexibility needed to take the angles getting to QBs. Has longer arms than Brooks (33 ) same size & speed). Good production numbers @ Pitt too, had 9 sacks & 14.5 TKL both numbers higher than Brooks. Sneaky, under-rated, intense, quick edge rusher.

2B. DeAndre McDaniel, SS, Clemson, 6001 217 (via San Diego #50)

Like Pollard, Aggressive & competitive on film, strong in run support & communication with peers. Physically & mentally tough, in short a man who is ready to step in the league & contribute day one which is something Texans will need especially with a shortened training camp/pre-season with CBA lockout. Much better in coverage than Pollard, able to read & react because hips are more fluid, slightly better speed as well.

3. Ellis Kenrick, NT, Hampton, 6047 346

Texans can solidify their future middle (NT/NG) needs by developing Ellis a raw, athletic big man who can push the pocket inward, has plenty of sand in his pants. Struggles with technique but believe Wade & staff can turn him into one hell of a starting 3-4 nose tackle. Over 35 arm length & big hands for position.

4. Chris Culliver, FS, South Carolina 6003 199

Opened eyes with a 4.40 & is one of the prospects Texans actually brought in to take another look at. FS is obviously a need both starting & back-up roles even if Glover Quinn makes the transition from Cornerback. Based on game film he is a late 3rd to mid 4th round FS prospect but does have injury history that is a concern which should drop his stock into the 5th rd. missed a lot of action senior season. Actually his best year was 2008 (3 ints) average around 60 tackles (exception senior year with loss time) but like his ability to close & cover-up corners with good range. Not the answer but solid return with some ability to compete with better speed in a slow Texans secondary.

5. Bruce Miller, OLB, Central Florida, 6014 254

High motor, blue collar work ethic, extremely strong upper body, recorded 42 reps at 225 lbs., adds much needed depth in pass rushing skills. Situational pass rusher, special teams standout, giving Texans a nice pair of young OLBs to go along with young pair of young CBs (Smith & Jackson). Excellent instincts, doesnt stay blocked. Two-time USA Defensive Player of the Year. Tremendous production in his four year career (34 sacks, 3 INT & 6 forced fumbles). Impressive 42 reps in the weight room, situational pass rusher and special teams contributor. We feel despite his slower than expected forty time of 4.85 (which is reason he drops this far) his actual football speed is much faster dues to natural instincts & pass rushing skills.

6. Michael Mohamed, ILB, California, 6030 239

Has experience running the 3-4 defense @ California (w/Cameron Jordan) see him as quick study & solid foundation/depth piece( can swing inside or outside). Smart/aware player smaller & quicker than what Texans currently have on roster to help solidify roster transition to 3-4 which cannot be undervalued. Team leader (Cal) in tackles with 96 very productive in short simple terms dude is a Football Player who is a system fit.

7A. Aaron Bates, Punter, Michigan State, 6000 200

Matt Turk is facing retirement, this is a must need/replacement so why not select your #1 rated player in the draft @ a position of need even if Punters are not considered Football Players, special teams, last I checked are still important facets of the game. Solid guy both on & off the field no character issues here, excellent ball placement skills inside the 20 with good power & was elected Spartan team captain.

7B. Mr. Irrelevant- Scott Tolzien, QB, Wisconsin, 6020 209

Not another TE from Wisconsin but he is the QB who threw to those TEs (post Owen Daniels) so give me high marks OK. Kubiak loves the Badger offense almost as much as Colorado State. Scott is his typical play action, smart, system QB who also has a very accurate arm, something people seem to be missing when they evaluate position.

DocBar
04-17-2011, 03:32 PM
Meh...this has as much chance as the 5,000,000,000.01 other mock drafts out there. :)

DocBar
04-17-2011, 03:33 PM
The .01 is my personal mock that iosn't worth publishing. :)
Hell, it isn't even worth my .02!!

Lucky
04-17-2011, 03:35 PM
1. Cameron Jordan, DE, California, 6040 287 (Traded to San Diego for picks #18 & #50)

Man Crush aside, I think the Texans use him as trade bait.
Without a CBA, players cannot be traded. Thus, a team cannot trade a player that they have already drafted. They can trade the pick prior to using it. Therefore, the Texans could not draft Jordan and trade him to San Diego. But, they could move the 11th pick for the Chargers picks at 18 & 50.

awtysst
04-17-2011, 04:02 PM
Without a CBA, players cannot be traded. Thus, a team cannot trade a player that they have already drafted. They can trade the pick prior to using it. Therefore, the Texans could not draft Jordan and trade him to San Diego. But, they could move the 11th pick for the Chargers picks at 18 & 50.

I think that only pertains to signed players, since signed players are part of the decertified union. Since the rookies are unsigned, I believe they CAN be traded.

beerlover
04-17-2011, 04:12 PM
I think that only pertains to signed players, since signed players are part of the decertified union. Since the rookies are unsigned, I believe they CAN be traded.

typical Lucky, he misses the point: point being Texans come so close to finally picking "my guy" then twist the rope tightly around my neck :choke: then pull the trade down with the Chargers (who have a track record for targeting a player & trading up to acquire him). I do stand behind my draft evaluations, I'm just preparing for another Day One Draft surprise :flowers:

Lucky
04-17-2011, 04:34 PM
I think that only pertains to signed players, since signed players are part of the decertified union. Since the rookies are unsigned, I believe they CAN be traded.
Nope (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/01/picks-cant-be-traded-this-year-after-theyre-used/).

This year, picks may not be traded after they are made, if the lockout has not ended.


The Manning-Rivers type of trade cannot happen this year due to the lockout rules, NFL spokesman Greg Aiello told PFT via e-mail on Friday. A trade at this time can involve only draft picks. Once a pick is made, the player cannot be traded (or signed) until a new league start begins. No player transactions are currently permitted.

typical Lucky, he misses the point: point being Texans come so close to finally picking "my guy" then twist the rope tightly around my neck :choke: then pull the trade down with the Chargers...
That's not what you typed. You had the Texans trading Jordan for the 18th and 50th picks. Maybe that's what you meant and it was poorly worded.

awtysst
04-17-2011, 04:39 PM
My draft partners want no part of this one but who could blame them, this draft stuff has finally pushed me over the edge :crazy: many would argue for some time now :um: but that's what makes it fun or maybe its the double bastard :wesmantexanfan:

On a serious note, in my last mock of 2011, I've addressed as many needs as possible which I feel are critical moving forward into Wade Phillips 3-4 scheme. Adding a big proto-typical press corner, athletic pass rushing DE to convert (OLB) monster pocket run stuffer @ nose, two safeties each who will compete for starting positions @ SS & FS, depth @ OLB & ILB, replacement punter & developmental QB for Kubiak to groom.

1. Cameron Jordan, DE, California, 6040 287 (Traded to San Diego for picks #18 & #50)

Man Crush aside, I think the Texans use him as trade bait. He is perfect fit here or for any 3-4 team needing premier DE who can press the corner, attack the QB, filter through trash & make plays next level. I even feel he can be moved around including OLB position standing up both as edge pass rusher & in coverage. The physical attributes he inherited from his dad Steve ( Pro-Bowl TE) are undeniable, for anybody who watched him destroy blocks & force defensive players to run away from him know what Im talking about one word describes his dad was fierce competitor I see the same things with young Cameron his personality is more his moms, but the inner drive & ability is all there.

1A. Jimmy Smith, CB, Colorado, 6022 211(via San Diego #18)

All that will matter end of the day is fixing secondary needs & I dont want to miss taking a prospect with such a high ceiling, despite off field issues, who could transition to the NFL as the next Darrelle Revis type of press corner. Ive not seen his name mentioned on the Texans board but when I compare tape of him to Prince Amukamara I see a more prototypical NFL corner who has the size, athletic ability & technique to mirror the bigger & faster NFL WR's. Are there issues & risks? heck yes but despite all the warts Jimmy Smith may wind up being the premier CB in this draft, much better all-around measureable than Devin McCourty too who I had mocked to Texans last year. This is a hard pick to make, trust me, the interview session would be a critical missing ingredient I do not have access to but all accounts suggest hes cleaned up his act & is ready to become a serious pro moving forward.

2A. Jabaal Sheard, OLB, Pittsburgh, 6027 264

Really wanted Brooks Reed, ready to pull the trigger if he falls past the 1st but doubt he gets by all those 3-4 teams who need OLB help/fortification. Sheard background checks have cleared (which should satisfy Texans FO). Ideal size for DE to project as a 3-4 OLB in the NFL. Natural pass rusher who can bend & skim the edge showing flexibility needed to take the angles getting to QBs. Has longer arms than Brooks (33 ) same size & speed). Good production numbers @ Pitt too, had 9 sacks & 14.5 TKL both numbers higher than Brooks. Sneaky, under-rated, intense, quick edge rusher.

2B. DeAndre McDaniel, SS, Clemson, 6001 217 (via San Diego #50)

Like Pollard, Aggressive & competitive on film, strong in run support & communication with peers. Physically & mentally tough, in short a man who is ready to step in the league & contribute day one which is something Texans will need especially with a shortened training camp/pre-season with CBA lockout. Much better in coverage than Pollard, able to read & react because hips are more fluid, slightly better speed as well.

3. Ellis Kenrick, NT, Hampton, 6047 346

Texans can solidify their future middle (NT/NG) needs by developing Ellis a raw, athletic big man who can push the pocket inward, has plenty of sand in his pants. Struggles with technique but believe Wade & staff can turn him into one hell of a starting 3-4 nose tackle. Over 35 arm length & big hands for position.

4. Chris Culliver, FS, South Carolina 6003 199

Opened eyes with a 4.40 & is one of the prospects Texans actually brought in to take another look at. FS is obviously a need both starting & back-up roles even if Glover Quinn makes the transition from Cornerback. Based on game film he is a late 3rd to mid 4th round FS prospect but does have injury history that is a concern which should drop his stock into the 5th rd. missed a lot of action senior season. Actually his best year was 2008 (3 ints) average around 60 tackles (exception senior year with loss time) but like his ability to close & cover-up corners with good range. Not the answer but solid return with some ability to compete with better speed in a slow Texans secondary.

5. Bruce Miller, OLB, Central Florida, 6014 254

High motor, blue collar work ethic, extremely strong upper body, recorded 42 reps at 225 lbs., adds much needed depth in pass rushing skills. Situational pass rusher, special teams standout, giving Texans a nice pair of young OLBs to go along with young pair of young CBs (Smith & Jackson). Excellent instincts, doesnt stay blocked. Two-time USA Defensive Player of the Year. Tremendous production in his four year career (34 sacks, 3 INT & 6 forced fumbles). Impressive 42 reps in the weight room, situational pass rusher and special teams contributor. We feel despite his slower than expected forty time of 4.85 (which is reason he drops this far) his actual football speed is much faster dues to natural instincts & pass rushing skills.

6. Michael Mohamed, ILB, California, 6030 239

Has experience running the 3-4 defense @ California (w/Cameron Jordan) see him as quick study & solid foundation/depth piece( can swing inside or outside). Smart/aware player smaller & quicker than what Texans currently have on roster to help solidify roster transition to 3-4 which cannot be undervalued. Team leader (Cal) in tackles with 96 very productive in short simple terms dude is a Football Player who is a system fit.

7A. Aaron Bates, Punter, Michigan State, 6000 200

Matt Turk is facing retirement, this is a must need/replacement so why not select your #1 rated player in the draft @ a position of need even if Punters are not considered Football Players, special teams, last I checked are still important facets of the game. Solid guy both on & off the field no character issues here, excellent ball placement skills inside the 20 with good power & was elected Spartan team captain.

7B. Mr. Irrelevant- Scott Tolzien, QB, Wisconsin, 6020 209

Not another TE from Wisconsin but he is the QB who threw to those TEs (post Owen Daniels) so give me high marks OK. Kubiak loves the Badger offense almost as much as Colorado State. Scott is his typical play action, smart, system QB who also has a very accurate arm, something people seem to be missing when they evaluate position.

First of all, I love the idea of the trade down.

1. Wow! That is a very brave choice. He has great measurables, but he also has major red flag issues. He tested positive for drugs in college (so I think he automatically goes into the NFL sub abuse program and the next failed drug test means suspension). However, what concerns me more than the failed drug test is that supposedly the way he talked about it at the Combine was poor. He took a "its not my fault" attitude rather than manning up and showing the steps he has taken to not do that again. To me, that is akin to him getting beat a few times and saying, eh, its not my fault vs manning up admitting fault and finding ways to get better. To me this is a classic High Risk/High Reward player.

2a. I like Jab. Good hard working, prospect. He needs some work at dropping into coverage, but a great OLB prospect. Some character issues in throwing a guy threw a window.

2b. Great selection! I like DD. He has a minor character issue as he was arrested for assault in 2008, but he would be an ideal S for Wade.

3. Another guy with character conscerns. BL, are you trying to turn the Texans into the Bungels?! Seriously man, four picks all with character issues?! I like the player and the pick, but maturity issues abound as he was dismissed from Spurrier's SC program. I would take him you didn't have Smith as the #1 pick. Too many red flags for me.

4.Good player, but I see him more as a CB than FS. He is not a good enough tackler as a saftey. With a CB, you can use the sideline as an extra defender, not so much with saftey.

5. LOVE IT! I love mid round situational pass rushers. High motor guys always get it done!

6. Good find. I forgot about him, but he would be an excellent piece to have. Very smart, heady, kind of player. I'd like to see him put a little weight on though, as a 3-4 ILB needs a little more bulk than 239.

7. Hard to argue with a need for a new punter. I don't know anything about the punter class, so I will defer to you here.

Mr. Irrelevant: Cabn sell play action, nice fast release, and is accurate. Would be a great career backup. Well done!

I like your effort, though am a bit concerned with a a lot of red flags for the first 4 selections. Taking 1 guy with character concerns is one thing, taking 4 with your first 4 picks may have us seeing red down the line.

awtysst
04-17-2011, 04:41 PM
Nope (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/01/picks-cant-be-traded-this-year-after-theyre-used/)

Thanks for educating me. I stand corrected. Texans could trade 11 for 18/50 though as you pointed out.

kiwitexansfan
04-17-2011, 05:29 PM
To be honest I struggle to take trade down mock seriously because it is wishlisting wishlisting.

A normal mock is pie in the sky but adding the extra unlikelihood of a trade down makes it worse.

As for the picks they are all good selection for our team.

beerlover
04-17-2011, 07:15 PM
Nope (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/01/picks-cant-be-traded-this-year-after-theyre-used/).


That's not what you typed. You had the Texans trading Jordan for the 18th and 50th picks. Maybe that's what you meant and it was poorly worded.

Is this better, Texans trade the 11th pick in the 2011 NFL Draft to the San Diego Chargers for the 18th & 50th overall selections?

Wolf6151
04-17-2011, 09:13 PM
1. I like the Smith pick, if we can keep his head out of his ass, so much potential and yet so stupid.

2. Sheard, I don't know much about this guy but I know enough to trust you.

2. McDaniels-I love this pick, instantly improves our SS position.

3. Ellis, you got his name backwards. I like the size but worry a little about his height at 6'05" and level of competition he's faced. I'd go for Jarvis Jenkins, Jerrell Powe, or Sione Fua here.

4. Culliver, I like the pick, we need depth in the secondary badly.

5. Miller, I don't know anything about him either, seems a little small at 6'01" especially in the 3-4. He could get killed by O-linemen.

6. Mohamed, I love this pick. I've had him in a couple of my mocks as well and feel that he has great size, decent speed, and experience in the 3-4. Should be great depth to the LB corp.

7. Bates, I don't know anything about him but it's a much needed position to fill.

7. Tolzien, I don't know anything about him but it's very plausible and I'll trust you.

Overall good job, I'd be very happy.

Hottoddie
04-17-2011, 10:05 PM
1A. Jimmy Smith, CB, Colorado, 6022 211(via San Diego #18)

I like your concept of trading down in this scenario. I've been intrigued by Smith lately & wouldn't mind taking him if he can get his head on straight. He could very well turn out to be the best CB in this draft.

2A. Jabaal Sheard, OLB, Pittsburgh, 6027 264

I like this pick & it fills a big hole on our roster.

2B. DeAndre McDaniel, SS, Clemson, 6001 217 (via San Diego #50)

This is the first one I disagree with. I would take Quinton Carter here due to his ability to play both FS/SS positions. He gives us more flexibility going into free agency to pursue either a FS or SS knowing that he can fill the other position. I guess it's becoming painfully obvious that I have a man crush on Carter.

3. Ellis Kenrick, NT, Hampton, 6047 346

Great pick here. I believe he fills a huge hole for us during our transition to the 3-4.

4. Chris Culliver, FS, South Carolina 6003 199

Another solid pick. He could develop into a CB down the road much like Asomugha did and if we're lucky, he might be as good. He also is a very good kick returner & should be able to contribute on special teams right away.

5. Bruce Miller, OLB, Central Florida, 6014 254

He sounds good. I'll default to your opinion of him since I'm not real familiar with him.

6. Michael Mohamed, ILB, California, 6030 239

You're definitely addressing our needs at the linebacking position. I'm not familiar with this guy. Does he have the frame to put on more weight without losing any speed?

7A. Aaron Bates, Punter, Michigan State, 6000 200

While I see your argument for taking a punter here, I'm of the opinion that you don't spend a draft pick on one. I'd rather look for some depth on the offensive line.

7B. Mr. Irrelevant- Scott Tolzien, QB, Wisconsin, 6020 209

Interesting prospect. Does this mean we can give up on the Orlovsky experiment? Great draft overall.

beerlover
04-17-2011, 11:14 PM
I like your concept of trading down in this scenario. I've been intrigued by Smith lately & wouldn't mind taking him if he can get his head on straight. He could very well turn out to be the best CB in this draft.



I like this pick & it fills a big hole on our roster.



This is the first one I disagree with. I would take Quinton Carter here due to his ability to play both FS/SS positions. He gives us more flexibility going into free agency to pursue either a FS or SS knowing that he can fill the other position. I guess it's becoming painfully obvious that I have a man crush on Carter.



Great pick here. I believe he fills a huge hole for us during our transition to the 3-4.



Another solid pick. He could develop into a CB down the road much like Asomugha did and if we're lucky, he might be as good. He also is a very good kick returner & should be able to contribute on special teams right away.



He sounds good. I'll default to your opinion of him since I'm not real familiar with him.



You're definitely addressing our needs at the linebacking position. I'm not familiar with this guy. Does he have the frame to put on more weight without losing any speed?



While I see your argument for taking a punter here, I'm of the opinion that you don't spend a draft pick on one. I'd rather look for some depth on the offensive line.



Interesting prospect. Does this mean we can give up on the Orlovsky experiment? Great draft overall.

excellent feedback, thanks!

beerlover
04-17-2011, 11:53 PM
I knew the Jimmy Smith pick would go down hard but here is the reasoning. Kareem needs a complimentary running mate to lock down the outside corners. Jimmy has much better speed of the two (4.42) plus size so he takes the other teams #1 & believe me has that type of mindset. Which allows Kareem to simplify his task concentrating on #2.

Notice I added two safeties with Quinn sliding over to help. McDaniel is a direct replacement for Bernard Pollard, as of this moment Texans do not have a starting caliber SS. He is a proven commodity in the ACC & brings the same physical presence we're losing in Pollard, yet with better coverage skills, plus he is a plug & start guy day one which is what the Texans need without FA to address needs. Yes Culliver could fill in some nickle corner reps but I see him as depth behind Glover & special teams player until he develops by staying healthy oppossed to Molden. I think he will have a tough job to beat out both Nolan & Barber but at least Texans take BPA here @ a position of need.

Wade you got to stand up man & make your case for a proto-typical nose tackle, who has the size & girth to be an elite run stuffer, that's something we've never enjoyed especially when Capers was here & ran the 3-4, Seth Payne could never stay healthy, which concerns me about Earl too. It's imperative this time around the Texans have enough talent & depth to last through a season. Gone are those days when the frontline player goes down & they have to insert _____________said scrub player. We need playmakers all positions plus depth to compete against the big boys.

Depth is key to run the 3-4 with linebackers too. DeMeco should return to full strength but I would like to minimize his reps along his rehab process plus build for the future. LB is probably the quickest payback of any position & since the Texans let Diles & Bentley go a resurgence of youth who fit Wade Phillips scheme seems appropriate. Anyone sold on Cushing being a inside linebacker is this the reason why the Texans selected him over Clay Matthews, keep it tuned we will see.

Why even bother drafting a punter or QB in the 7th the odds are astronomical that they even have a sliver of a chance. Well its half true, at least with the punter we know we need one & need him now so why not take the best of the lot who fits this teams chemistry & locker room while filling a special teams need? As far as the QB goes who knows? I was high, yes I'll admit it on Alex Brink, cause he went to the same High School? maybe, but more than anything I trust Gary Kubiak to identify & develop a QB. For him a guy who can read & run the play-book, execute the throws with accuracy & not turn the ball over as someone interesting to take a look at developing , Wisconsin runs a similar offensive set & he would blend in seamlessly without a high pick investment like some teams in dire need of QB help are bound to do.

Overall I'm very happy with this draft one because it fills a lot of needs, two with very good prospects & three is very realistic despite the trade down option. Thank You for all your feedback & enjoy it's about to be Christmas time in April :wesmantexanfan:

pbat488
04-17-2011, 11:56 PM
He is a proven commodity in the SEC

I like the draft though I don't see the Texans going for it with all the character flags brought up as others have pointed out. I think Smith will be a great player in the league if he matures on and off the field.

Also, McDaniel's a Clemson grad meaning ACC, not SEC.

beerlover
04-18-2011, 12:08 AM
I like the draft though I don't see the Texans going for it with all the character flags brought up as others have pointed out. I think Smith will be a great player in the league if he matures on and off the field.

Also, McDaniel's a Clemson grad meaning ACC, not SEC.

thanks, pbat. This is a difficult topic, we all know how careful Texans treat off field issues along with character concerns. As a draft evaluator I just see a kid who can play, he is an elite play-maker @ a position of need just waiting to strut his stuff & get paid, on a national football league stage. This is truly something the Texans have shy'ed away from but something they desperately need, a real play-maker in the secondary which in turn, I'm hoping would tie up all the loose ends.

beerlover
04-18-2011, 10:26 AM
Just a quick update where players are slotted from a Bleecher Mock draft that came out today. Funny both picks are projected to Jacksonville, guess besides sharing division they also share similar needs as Texans.

#16 Jimmy Smith, Cornerback, Colorado

Did any team have a worse secondary in 2010 than the Jacksonville Jaguars?

The team needs upgrades at cornerback opposite the underachieving Rashaen Mathis and at both safety positions.

Smith has the talent of a top-15 pick, but the attitude of a late-rounder. Like so many players before him, Smith has let his mouth hurt his draft stock in the months leading up to the draft

#49 Jabaal Sheard, Defensive End, Pittsburgh

In Round 1, the Jaguars grabbed a cornerback with the ability to lock down the opposition's best wide receiver.

In Round 2, the Jags must find a defensive end to pressure the quarterback.

Aaron Kampman can be a dominating pass rusher, but for the second straight year, he tore an ACL and had to have surgery. His long-term value has to be in question

beerlover
04-18-2011, 10:42 AM
I don't know the source but the Mighty Quin is reporting there are rumors Texans are in love with Patrick Peterson, which I kinda thought they would be but they would have to trade a lot to move up & get him. In my mock I have a similar player, same position & adding a pick. your choice what would you do?

bah007
04-18-2011, 12:39 PM
I don't know the source but the Mighty Quin is reporting there are rumors Texans are in love with Patrick Peterson, which I kinda thought they would be but they would have to trade a lot to move up & get him. In my mock I have a similar player, same position & adding a pick. your choice what would you do?

To get Peterson we would have to trade up to #2. Because Buffalo isn't trading down. They will take either Newton or Miller. Maybe Cincinnati would trade down at #4. But I think they want either Green or Jones, and they would risk losing both of them.

beerlover
04-18-2011, 01:09 PM
To get Peterson we would have to trade up to #2. Because Buffalo isn't trading down. They will take either Newton or Miller. Maybe Cincinnati would trade down at #4. But I think they want either Green or Jones, and they would risk losing both of them.

Draft Day, or should I say Draft Night, is going to be very interesting. Teams are chomping @ the bit to get their guy(s). There will be some significant trades we just have no way of knowing who to where to when only rumors to feed on over the next 10 days.

IDEXAN
04-18-2011, 01:18 PM
I don't know the source but the Mighty Quin is reporting there are rumors Texans are in love with Patrick Peterson.
But isn't every team in love with Peterson ?
^^^
But something just occured to me about the top pick in the Draft this year - this may the first year we really don't know who it is until the actual pick happens a week from Thursday, because without a new CBA, Carolina has no incentive or even the right to negotiate a deal before the pick from what I understand ? So why would they even announce early who there pick is ?

Goatcheese
04-18-2011, 03:37 PM
I saw J.Smith as a top 10 pick going into the 2010 season and he really didn't do anything to change my mind. I think Amukamara benefited from being on a good defense and has been overrated.

The Texans won't take Smith though.

drs23
04-18-2011, 04:35 PM
I saw J.Smith as a top 10 pick going into the 2010 season and he really didn't do anything to change my mind. I think Amukamara benefited from being on a good defense and has been overrated.

The Texans won't take Smith though.

I agree because of his background. I'd like the team to kinda get over that, a little. At the same time, I'm glad that I don't see any Dez Bryant/Kenny Britt stories from the Texans.

beerlover
04-18-2011, 05:20 PM
"Winning" Charlie Texan

The one thing that really stands out to me is Smith doesn' get beat deep. Even against top flight competition like aj green. Prince however was beaten deep sometimes in the same game, remember Blackman, OSU? Sound familiar? So when I graded out CB prospects Jimmy Smith's name Graded out #2 behind only Peterson

steelbtexan
04-18-2011, 11:05 PM
BL, I dont know if the trading will work out. But I would trust your board more than Rick and Garys.

Smith would be a good pick. But that's not what the Texans do.

The Texans should give up whar it takes (2011 2nd, 2012 2nd) to get either Peterson or Miller. Both of those 2nd rd picks could turn out to be Joppru/Hollings. You dont know how those picks will turn out. Peterson/Miller are safe picks. When you're as bad at drafting as Rick and Gary are. Give me the sure thing Miller/Peterson over a Rick/Gary 2nd and pray any day. LOL

But BoB has to be willing to spend the $$$$$ to move up and he's never made a bold move like moving up from #11 to # 5. I dont see this changing anytime soon.

beerlover
04-19-2011, 04:45 AM
You could be right, think about it, the Texans did trade down two spots in the Top 10 no less, plus 2007 & 2008 2nd rd. picks to Atlanta for Matt Schaub & that turned out pretty well. At the same time the Texans traded down in 08 from #18 to #26 for what turned out to be Duane Brown & Steve Slaton so that worked out pretty well for Rick Smith too. Lets give our GM some credit for the right moves he makes too.

Here I have tried to identify the CB with the highest ceiling going into this draft. Remember about this time in 2004 (I) was just learning about this draft stuff when came shooting up the boards one Dunta Robinson. I could not believe a player could seemingly come out of nowhere from a 2nd rd. grade all the way to the Top 10 & that team just so happened to be my (our) Houston Texans?????? Needless to say it was unfathomable. He was wiry thin, barley 182 soaking wet with so called jet speed & stood a meager 5'10". He turned out to be heck of a player until that unfortunate play, while he returned (credit to him for awesome rehab) he was never the same player, frustrated with loss of future revenue he went to the infamous pay me Rick card, got his meal ticket punched & out of here, now all the Texans have to show for it is Mr. Irrelevant.

But that's enough down memory lane, I bring that up only to point out that Jimmy Smith has a much higher ceiling in this league, off field transgressions aside, he is bigger, much bigger, just as quick in space, better long speed, elite fluidity makes it look effortless which is a problem sometimes cause it looks like he takes plays off, which does happen too. The only real weakness in his game I've seen is he will bite on play-action, he is very disruptive & likes to get physical, into the body early, disrupting route or ball flight which could lead to excessive PI calls. But like I said his recovery speed is elite & he can close quickly, does not get beat deep so safety help on his side can cheat to the other side (Kareem).

It's very hard to nail down a team he fits best because all teams really need a player @ his position who is a true Shut-down corner. I think more & more people like me when they finally finish their Big Board or position board will understand he is a better CB @ the next level than Prince & who knows for sure if Peterson remains a CB? depends on the team who drafts him & their needs, he could wind up being a safety in the mold of Sean Taylor, he is such a dynamic, athletic, physical playmaker. When I mocked this draft out I thought 18 was a pretty safe bet, now I'm not so sure could go to Jacksonville @ #16 while Miami is also a threat because they too need CB help. Who knows maybe in a week or so Jimmy Smith will move up to #11 pick straight up? Because he does have Top 10 talent.

awtysst
04-19-2011, 08:50 AM
BL, I dont know if the trading will work out. But I would trust your board more than Rick and Garys.

Smith would be a good pick. But that's not what the Texans do.

The Texans should give up whar it takes (2011 2nd, 2012 2nd) to get either Peterson or Miller. Both of those 2nd rd picks could turn out to be Joppru/Hollings. You dont know how those picks will turn out. Peterson/Miller are safe picks. When you're as bad at drafting as Rick and Gary are. Give me the sure thing Miller/Peterson over a Rick/Gary 2nd and pray any day. LOL

But BoB has to be willing to spend the $$$$$ to move up and he's never made a bold move like moving up from #11 to # 5. I dont see this changing anytime soon.

I have to disagree here. Moving up a few spots is one thing, but when teams give up a lot to move up for a unproven player, it usually doesn't work out. Here are some examples.

Texans give up multiple draft picks for Jason babin.
Saints give up multiple draft picks for Ricky Williams.
Browns give up multiple draft picks for Brady Quinn
Jets give up multiple picks for Dwayne Robertson.
Falcons give up multiple picks for Michael Vick.

When you move up a lot and give up multiple picks it generally does not work.

awtysst
04-19-2011, 08:57 AM
But that's enough down memory lane, I bring that up only to point out that Jimmy Smith has a much higher ceiling in this league, off field transgressions aside, he is bigger, much bigger, just as quick in space, better long speed, elite fluidity makes it look effortless which is a problem sometimes cause it looks like he takes plays off, which does happen too. The only real weakness in his game I've seen is he will bite on play-action, he is very disruptive & likes to get physical, into the body early, disrupting route or ball flight which could lead to excessive PI calls. But like I said his recovery speed is elite & he can close quickly, does not get beat deep so safety help on his side can cheat to the other side (Kareem).

It's very hard to nail down a team he fits best because all teams really need a player @ his position who is a true Shut-down corner. I think more & more people like me when they finally finish their Big Board or position board will understand he is a better CB @ the next level than Prince & who knows for sure if Peterson remains a CB? depends on the team who drafts him & their needs, he could wind up being a safety in the mold of Sean Taylor, he is such a dynamic, athletic, physical playmaker. When I mocked this draft out I thought 18 was a pretty safe bet, now I'm not so sure could go to Jacksonville @ #16 while Miami is also a threat because they too need CB help. Who knows maybe in a week or so Jimmy Smith will move up to #11 pick straight up? Because he does have Top 10 talent.

You are correct in all of that. However, there are two reaosnjs I wouldn't take him.

1. he had a substance abuse history in college. If I remember correctly, a college player with a substance abuse history automatically goes into the NFL substance abuse program. While other player get one failed drug test before they are asked to join the program, those with the history go in automatically. If he fails another drug test while in the program, he misses games.

2. When asked about it at the combine he did not man up, admit fault, and discuss the steps he was taking to rectify the problem. He instead either treated it like it was no big deal or blamed others. He has an opportunity to show he had learned a lesson and failed to demonstrate it. This can translate to the field where if he gets burned a couple of times, will he be coachable and try to see what he did wrong or will he blame try to blame his teamates?

For me, it is too risky to take a guy like that in the first round like that.

beerlover
04-19-2011, 02:14 PM
You are correct in all of that. However, there are two reaosnjs I wouldn't take him.

1. he had a substance abuse history in college. If I remember correctly, a college player with a substance abuse history automatically goes into the NFL substance abuse program. While other player get one failed drug test before they are asked to join the program, those with the history go in automatically. If he fails another drug test while in the program, he misses games.

2. When asked about it at the combine he did not man up, admit fault, and discuss the steps he was taking to rectify the problem. He instead either treated it like it was no big deal or blamed others. He has an opportunity to show he had learned a lesson and failed to demonstrate it. This can translate to the field where if he gets burned a couple of times, will he be coachable and try to see what he did wrong or will he blame try to blame his teamates?

For me, it is too risky to take a guy like that in the first round like that.

fair enough. I'll admit I'm off the reservation (Texans) but not in terms of need.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/09000d5d81f231d9/2011-Draft-Profile-CB-Jimmy-Smith-Colorado

Lucky
04-19-2011, 11:37 PM
he had a substance abuse history in college. If I remember correctly, a college player with a substance abuse history automatically goes into the NFL substance abuse program.
I think a player has to pop positive at the combine in order to enter the league under the substance abuse program (like Carlos Rogers did). A failed drug test in college isn't relevant. The NFLPA would never agree to that, because the league doesn't administer the tests.

Trap_Star
04-19-2011, 11:43 PM
drafting jordan wasn't necessary...in the nfl you don't draft for another team. it's not like the nba where prospects change hats minutes after being drafted by a team.

Lucky
04-19-2011, 11:51 PM
When you move up a lot and give up multiple picks it generally does not work.
Broncos give up multiple picks and get Elway.
Rams give up multiple picks and get Dickerson.
Oilers Broncos give up multiple picks and get Campbell.

It works. When you draft the right guy.

beerlover
04-20-2011, 04:58 AM
drafting jordan wasn't necessary...in the nfl you don't draft for another team. it's not like the nba where prospects change hats minutes after being drafted by a team.

necessary to me, I want to be on record that Cameron Jordan is my pick of choice #11 for the Texans.

if there is satisfactory offer to trade down the Texans probably would strongly consider it. These type of trades have happened in the NFL before, one example that comes to mind involved the Chargers, who selected Eli Manning 1st overall then when the Giants drafted Phillip Rivers they traded each others selection + Chargers made a haul in extra picks.

In regards to a team willing to trade up once again its the Chargers. Last year they moved from #28 to #12 to acquire RB Ryan Matthews. Jordan is a higher rated player than Ryan at a position of need for their 3-4 defense with the Patriots selecting with similar needs one slot before them.

beerlover
04-20-2011, 05:02 AM
Broncos give up multiple picks and get Elway.
Rams give up multiple picks and get Dickerson.
Oilers Broncos give up multiple picks and get Campbell.

It works. When you draft the right guy.

key word, generally. three isolated instances does not equal rule of thumb.

kiwitexansfan
04-20-2011, 08:15 AM
Broncos give up multiple picks and get Elway.
Rams give up multiple picks and get Dickerson.
Oilers Broncos give up multiple picks and get Campbell.

It works. When you draft the right guy.

Problem is you never know for certain when it is the right guy.

Trap_Star
04-20-2011, 10:11 AM
necessary to me, I want to be on record that Cameron Jordan is my pick of choice #11 for the Texans.

if there is satisfactory offer to trade down the Texans probably would strongly consider it. These type of trades have happened in the NFL before, one example that comes to mind involved the Chargers, who selected Eli Manning 1st overall then when the Giants drafted Phillip Rivers they traded each others selection + Chargers made a haul in extra picks.

In regards to a team willing to trade up once again its the Chargers. Last year they moved from #28 to #12 to acquire RB Ryan Matthews. Jordan is a higher rated player than Ryan at a position of need for their 3-4 defense with the Patriots selecting with similar needs one slot before them.

the whole eli thing was completely different situation with different circumstances. aside from him, can you recall the last player that was traded on draft day minutes after being selected? the whole drafting a player to use as trade bait just doesn't happen in the NFL. not trying to give you a hard time about it, but it's like i said, the NFL doesn't operate like the NBA. scouts, coaches and GMs put in too much work to be changing their mind on players after they already selected.

beerlover
04-20-2011, 11:11 AM
the whole eli thing was completely different situation with different circumstances. aside from him, can you recall the last player that was traded on draft day minutes after being selected? the whole drafting a player to use as trade bait just doesn't happen in the NFL. not trying to give you a hard time about it, but it's like i said, the NFL doesn't operate like the NBA. scouts, coaches and GMs put in too much work to be changing their mind on players after they already selected.

right. again, worded it to be on record who I want if Texans stand pat. of course, they will review offers then trade down only if agreeable to them before making actual pick. I'm not saying run to the podium with Jordan's name before actual due process or select him with intention to turn him later to another team.

now we could have taken this a whole other direction (assuming this trade was made) who would you want the Texans to pick up #18 & 50 to address secondary or OLB? I carefully evaluated my board, downgraded off field issues to attain the most elite athlete/playamkers weighing the greatest needs in order of importance. I'm more willing to assume these risks @ this stage to jump start this defense, no more Mr. nice guys I want impact players on Sundays who can actually shutdown or sack someone.

OrdinaryAvgGuy
04-20-2011, 12:39 PM
Broncos give up multiple picks and get Elway.
Rams give up multiple picks and get Dickerson.
Oilers Broncos give up multiple picks and get Campbell.

It works. When you draft the right guy.


It DOES work when you get the right guy. The right guy is a franchise quarterback or running back. I would have been glad to see a trade up to grab Adrian Peterson.

beerlover
04-20-2011, 01:28 PM
Funny thing, just noticed OURLADS have the Texans selecting Jimmy Smith in 2nd. wow, that would be a great pick/value there! FYI Ryan Kerrigan #11

Lucky
04-20-2011, 06:59 PM
key word, generally. three isolated instances does not equal rule of thumb.
The rule of thumb is that there is no rule of thumb. Orlando Pace. Clay Matthews. There are others on each side of the equation. The key isn't trading up or trading back. It's who you pick.

beerlover
04-20-2011, 07:55 PM
The rule of thumb is that there is no rule of thumb. Orlando Pace. Clay Matthews. There are others on each side of the equation. The key isn't trading up or trading back. It's who you pick.

Speaking in general terms, there are a lot of weak GM'S out there, easy pick-en's for those gifted who have a solid plan, foundation & relationship with an established successful Head Coach (see what Gary & Rick are up against). A good tandem can look 3-5 years down the road & build towards a common goal with a consistent game plan with/without credentials if they have the talent & bloodlines to do so.

For whatever reason I always look for comparable whether it be players, coaches, GM's or organizations. Since the Texans came into the league I've kept an interest to what Detroit has done during the same span, especially since 2003 when they had the 2nd pick & passed on Andre, which was the single biggest difference between the two, but then they got it right with Suh, now they both seem about = again. Talking HC/GM when the Texans made their coaching change, Atlanta soon after made their own with duo of Mike Smith & Thomas Dimitroff. Who of course have had a little more success, which raises the question why? Well Mike Smith is a defensive coach first, so he knows how to build his staff & run a system (like Gary knows offense) while offensively the GM went out & drafted a franchise QB (to replace not only Vick but Schaub as well) plus key FA offensive powerhouse Michael Turner & traded for Tony Gonzalez. So they addressed multiple needs a variety of ways & once aquired brought them in & plugged them into their system. This is the year we shall know the answer to Gary Kubiak & Rick Smith, not making it any easier for them in a lockout year, but color me cautiously optimistic, I really hope they get it right :koolaid:

badboy
04-21-2011, 03:00 PM
My draft partners want no part of this one but who could blame them, this draft stuff has finally pushed me over the edge :crazy: many would argue for some time now :um: but that's what makes it fun or maybe its the double bastard :wesmantexanfan:

On a serious note, in my last mock of 2011, I've addressed as many needs as possible which I feel are critical moving forward into Wade Phillips 3-4 scheme. Adding a big proto-typical press corner, athletic pass rushing DE to convert (OLB) monster pocket run stuffer @ nose, two safeties each who will compete for starting positions @ SS & FS, depth @ OLB & ILB, replacement punter & developmental QB for Kubiak to groom.

1. Cameron Jordan, DE, California, 6040 287 (Traded to San Diego for picks #18 & #50)

Man Crush aside, I think the Texans use him as trade bait. He is perfect fit here or for any 3-4 team needing premier DE who can press the corner, attack the QB, filter through trash & make plays next level. I even feel he can be moved around including OLB position standing up both as edge pass rusher & in coverage. The physical attributes he inherited from his dad Steve ( Pro-Bowl TE) are undeniable, for anybody who watched him destroy blocks & force defensive players to run away from him know what Im talking about one word describes his dad was fierce competitor I see the same things with young Cameron his personality is more his moms, but the inner drive & ability is all there.

1A. Jimmy Smith, CB, Colorado, 6022 211(via San Diego #18)

All that will matter end of the day is fixing secondary needs & I dont want to miss taking a prospect with such a high ceiling, despite off field issues, who could transition to the NFL as the next Darrelle Revis type of press corner. Ive not seen his name mentioned on the Texans board but when I compare tape of him to Prince Amukamara I see a more prototypical NFL corner who has the size, athletic ability & technique to mirror the bigger & faster NFL WR's. Are there issues & risks? heck yes but despite all the warts Jimmy Smith may wind up being the premier CB in this draft, much better all-around measureable than Devin McCourty too who I had mocked to Texans last year. This is a hard pick to make, trust me, the interview session would be a critical missing ingredient I do not have access to but all accounts suggest hes cleaned up his act & is ready to become a serious pro moving forward.

2A. Jabaal Sheard, OLB, Pittsburgh, 6027 264

Really wanted Brooks Reed, ready to pull the trigger if he falls past the 1st but doubt he gets by all those 3-4 teams who need OLB help/fortification. Sheard background checks have cleared (which should satisfy Texans FO). Ideal size for DE to project as a 3-4 OLB in the NFL. Natural pass rusher who can bend & skim the edge showing flexibility needed to take the angles getting to QBs. Has longer arms than Brooks (33 ) same size & speed). Good production numbers @ Pitt too, had 9 sacks & 14.5 TKL both numbers higher than Brooks. Sneaky, under-rated, intense, quick edge rusher.

2B. DeAndre McDaniel, SS, Clemson, 6001 217 (via San Diego #50)

Like Pollard, Aggressive & competitive on film, strong in run support & communication with peers. Physically & mentally tough, in short a man who is ready to step in the league & contribute day one which is something Texans will need especially with a shortened training camp/pre-season with CBA lockout. Much better in coverage than Pollard, able to read & react because hips are more fluid, slightly better speed as well.

3. Ellis Kenrick, NT, Hampton, 6047 346

Texans can solidify their future middle (NT/NG) needs by developing Ellis a raw, athletic big man who can push the pocket inward, has plenty of sand in his pants. Struggles with technique but believe Wade & staff can turn him into one hell of a starting 3-4 nose tackle. Over 35 arm length & big hands for position.

4. Chris Culliver, FS, South Carolina 6003 199

Opened eyes with a 4.40 & is one of the prospects Texans actually brought in to take another look at. FS is obviously a need both starting & back-up roles even if Glover Quinn makes the transition from Cornerback. Based on game film he is a late 3rd to mid 4th round FS prospect but does have injury history that is a concern which should drop his stock into the 5th rd. missed a lot of action senior season. Actually his best year was 2008 (3 ints) average around 60 tackles (exception senior year with loss time) but like his ability to close & cover-up corners with good range. Not the answer but solid return with some ability to compete with better speed in a slow Texans secondary.

5. Bruce Miller, OLB, Central Florida, 6014 254

High motor, blue collar work ethic, extremely strong upper body, recorded 42 reps at 225 lbs., adds much needed depth in pass rushing skills. Situational pass rusher, special teams standout, giving Texans a nice pair of young OLBs to go along with young pair of young CBs (Smith & Jackson). Excellent instincts, doesnt stay blocked. Two-time USA Defensive Player of the Year. Tremendous production in his four year career (34 sacks, 3 INT & 6 forced fumbles). Impressive 42 reps in the weight room, situational pass rusher and special teams contributor. We feel despite his slower than expected forty time of 4.85 (which is reason he drops this far) his actual football speed is much faster dues to natural instincts & pass rushing skills.

6. Michael Mohamed, ILB, California, 6030 239

Has experience running the 3-4 defense @ California (w/Cameron Jordan) see him as quick study & solid foundation/depth piece( can swing inside or outside). Smart/aware player smaller & quicker than what Texans currently have on roster to help solidify roster transition to 3-4 which cannot be undervalued. Team leader (Cal) in tackles with 96 very productive in short simple terms dude is a Football Player who is a system fit.

7A. Aaron Bates, Punter, Michigan State, 6000 200

Matt Turk is facing retirement, this is a must need/replacement so why not select your #1 rated player in the draft @ a position of need even if Punters are not considered Football Players, special teams, last I checked are still important facets of the game. Solid guy both on & off the field no character issues here, excellent ball placement skills inside the 20 with good power & was elected Spartan team captain.

7B. Mr. Irrelevant- Scott Tolzien, QB, Wisconsin, 6020 209

Not another TE from Wisconsin but he is the QB who threw to those TEs (post Owen Daniels) so give me high marks OK. Kubiak loves the Badger offense almost as much as Colorado State. Scott is his typical play action, smart, system QB who also has a very accurate arm, something people seem to be missing when they evaluate position.As one of your draft partners I want to say well done BL. You know due to our many pms that I like Jordan but see Watt as a better prospect although not by much. If I was convinced Cam could move to OLB successfully, he would rate above Watt on my board. He is pretty heavy for a LB. ALso, you may remember I brought Jimmy Smith and Chris Culliver to the attention of our mock partners and think you have done a great job in documenting their worth. Smith scares me, now. I have him rated better than Amukamara in skill sets but his off field antics make me think "hold up a bit." He can be a boom or bust making you look a hero or pretty stupid. In his last game of the college season, I focused on him wanting to see him stand out. He did but it he stood out as not looking like he knew what to do one one play and that really concerned me. Maybe it was one of those plays.

Kendrick Ellis would be a great pick despite his off field history & think he will be a great NT but doubt team will go that way.

I think the trade down with San Diego is a possibility. Again great work !!!!

kiwitexansfan
04-21-2011, 03:11 PM
As one of your draft partners I want to say well done BL. You know due to our many pms that I like Jordan but see Watt as a better prospect although not by much. If I was convinced Cam could move to OLB successfully, he would rate above Watt on my board. He is pretty heavy for a LB.

Has there been talk of Jordan playing OLB?

I can't say I have seen that mentioned. To be either a 5-tech or OLB seems a bit of a leap even for a freak such as Mario.

beerlover
04-21-2011, 03:49 PM
Has there been talk of Jordan playing OLB?

I can't say I have seen that mentioned. To be either a 5-tech or OLB seems a bit of a leap even for a freak such as Mario.

Before the end of Cal's Pro-Day, a few scouts requested Cameron to run some LB drills, dropping back in coverage, stuff that OLB's do & repoted'ly scouts where impressed. It's on YouTube if you want to look it up? I thought despite not practicing ahead of time he looked naturally fluid,
Dropped low, w/decent backpeddle. He really looked more like his dad playing TE. You know the Texans like their TE's :toropalm:

Mr teX
04-21-2011, 03:59 PM
This is the 1st mock draft that i've seen & like. Cam Jordan is the guy unless peterson or dareus somehow fall. I'd be ok with Smith in the 2nd..props BL..

kiwitexansfan
04-21-2011, 04:02 PM
Before the end of Cal's Pro-Day, a few scouts requested Cameron to run some LB drills, dropping back in coverage, stuff that OLB's do & repoted'ly scouts where impressed. It's on YouTube if you want to look it up? I thought despite not practicing ahead of time he looked naturally fluid,
Dropped low, w/decent backpeddle. He really looked more like his dad playing TE. You know the Texans like their TE's :toropalm:

Found a short clip of him, you're right he did look pretty smooth and natural.

beerlover
04-21-2011, 09:27 PM
This is the 1st mock draft that i've seen & like. Cam Jordan is the guy unless peterson or dareus somehow fall. I'd be ok with Smith in the 2nd..props BL..

Thanks. Jordan brings added value to a 3-4 defense. One, he's ready to plug & play (same system @ Cal) Two Jordan is willing, positive aptitude & flashes athletic abilty to fill other positions of need as he adjusts to new teammates. Three Cam is respectful of players like Mario & Antonio (he grew up around the NFL) so he will be accepted & fit in quickly here as well. Four, bloodlines. His father Steve was a feared physical pro bowl TE.

steelbtexan
04-21-2011, 10:23 PM
I have to disagree here. Moving up a few spots is one thing, but when teams give up a lot to move up for a unproven player, it usually doesn't work out. Here are some examples.

Texans give up multiple draft picks for Jason babin.
Saints give up multiple draft picks for Ricky Williams.
Browns give up multiple draft picks for Brady Quinn
Jets give up multiple picks for Dwayne Robertson.
Falcons give up multiple picks for Michael Vick.

When you move up a lot and give up multiple picks it generally does not work.

Babin = Played great this yr. Did he make the Pro Bowl? Texans coaching = stink

Williams = multiple pro bowls, teams got to do their homewrk and make sure of character issues. This is the reason I wouldn't take Jimmy Smith

Quinn = Bust, but he was a bottom of the 1st rd pick. #22 I believe.

Robertson= Bust, This is the only true high draft pick bust. The reason he busted was 1. Change in sheme the Jets drafted him as a 4-3 DT then the coaching staff got fired and Mangini brought in the 3-4 and Robertson wasn't a fit. Reason # 2 bad knees, The most important Robertson busted.

Vick= Had an MVP type season last yr. Atlanta needed to do their homework better. Although I'm not sure it would've mattered. Atlanta drafted Vick because he appealed to their fanbase and helped sell tickets.


Trading up in the top 10 for a high character players like Miller or Peterson isn't as big a risk as it might seem. IMHO This is in addition to Luckys later post.

beerlover
04-24-2011, 02:06 PM
Leading up to draft week I would like to discuss how players drafted in my trade down mock fit into Wade Phillips new Texans 3-4. Barring unforeseen CBA agreement in place before the draft actually begins, there will be less flexibility for teams to trade picks (cannot use current players) however on the flip side this puts addressing team needs as a priority by moving into slots to get their guy. I believe teams will be more strategical to identify their "guy" early to address that premium position of need. Take Tampa Bay for instance, Da'Quan Bowers is a top 10 prospect who's stock is slipping because of knee concerns, which I happen to believe is a smoke screen for some teams to see him fall further than he should so they can select him (not saying Tampa is one of them but could be a beneficiary). Jimmy Smith as expected has cleared background checks, as I expected, so his stock is climbing with most mock drafts having him selected #23 by the Eagles to shore up secondary. Anyway my point being is there is enough value @ the #11 spot for the Texans to receive phone calls when they go on the clock, just trying to prepare everyone.

The beauty of implementing a 3-4 is the tweener types "OLB's" can be picked up later to fill pass rushing needs because in the past they generally didn't fit a traditional 4-3 position, not big enough to line up with hand in the dirt & not fast enough in coverage, well things have changed haven't they? but one thing remains, high motor & instincts in passing downs. I think the Texans can address this position in the 2nd rd. given Wade Phillips experience. One thing we know from experience is its very difficult to start a rookie CB even if he's a first rounder. He is going to struggle, get beat, make poor decisions, draw numerous yellow flags & in short very well cost the Texans a game or two. But you can't give up on them, you need to assess their strengths & cover up the weaknesses putting them in a better situation to succeed, like New England did last season with Devin McCourty. This means not only scheme has to be adjusted but better safety help/support over the top & underneath.

I have addressed these needs/concerns in the first four rounds with quality, potential starting caliber prospects. Getting a big, physical press corner like Jimmy Smith will allow Glover Quinn to move into his natural FS position & Chris Culliver is an excellent FS prospect in the 4th to develop, providing depth behind Glover & flexibility should he move back to corner. While DeAndre McDaniel will come into camp & win out to become the Texans new starting SS. He is a man on a mission ready & physical enough to handle the pounding for Pollard vacant duties plus is an upgrade with play-making ability in coverage. Jabaal Sheard is a bit of a sleeper was double teamed when fellow Pitt DE/OLB Greg Romeus (another draft possiblity in 5th along with Miller for OLB position, remember his name too come 3rd day). What I like most about Sheard are his pass rush instincts, he is tenacious, high motor effort guy who would fit perfect as Wade Phillips OLB. Then of course I threw in a bigger NT/NG in Ellis which Texans will need in first/second down & goal line situations. I like Cody with Mitchell but its all about match-ups & the more physical teams will take advantage size wise & wear those two guys down without some extra beef to support. In the end with Wade Phillips ability to coach the position the Texans DL will no longer be a pushover.

Fred
04-24-2011, 06:42 PM
... One thing we know from experience is its very difficult to start a rookie CB even if he's a first rounder. He is going to struggle, get beat, make poor decisions, draw murmurous red flags & in short very well cost the Texans a game or two.

murmurous (adj) filled with or characterized by murmurs: low and indistinct

But I think you have created a new definition: a combination of murderous and numerous - causing the fans to murmur.

Best new use of a word ever!

kiwitexansfan
04-24-2011, 07:21 PM
I thought they drew yellow flags.....

Red flags is what I see when people talk about drafting Phil Taylor.

steelbtexan
04-24-2011, 08:01 PM
In regards to Taylor

The same things were said about Wilfork,Hampton,Rodgers,Raji etc...

There's always a risk to drafting a fatty. Some turn out to be Wilfork, others turn out to be Wilkinson.

This is why taking Powe/Ellis/Williams in rd 3/5 would be my choice over taking Taylor in the 1st. But if Wade chooses to trade back into the bottom of the 1st for Taylor I'm on board.

beerlover
04-24-2011, 09:27 PM
murmurous (adj) filled with or characterized by murmurs: low and indistinct

But I think you have created a new definition: a combination of murderous and numerous - causing the fans to murmur.

Best new use of a word ever!

:ahhaha: thanks for that, at least now I know people actually read this stuff, guess I'll have to proof read in the future, since spell check obviously failed :foottap:

beerlover
04-24-2011, 09:29 PM
I thought they drew yellow flags.....

Red flags is what I see when people talk about drafting Phil Taylor.

yellow, red, see how long its been since football season & it's not coming back anytime soon :penalty:

beerlover
04-24-2011, 09:51 PM
In regards to Taylor

The same things were said about Wilfork,Hampton,Rodgers,Raji etc...

There's always a risk to drafting a fatty. Some turn out to be Wilfork, others turn out to be Wilkinson.

This is why taking Powe/Ellis/Williams in rd 3/5 would be my choice over taking Taylor in the 1st. But if Wade chooses to trade back into the bottom of the 1st for Taylor I'm on board.

Taylor has a big frame & can carry 325-335 easily which will be in his contract for sure. From watching tape I don't even think he is a two gap penetrator, he is not really bulky but fairly athletic, his strength is one gap nose tackle position like Wade Phillips uses or in 4-3 UT over center.

Ellis who I have mocked to Texans in the 3rd is actually your more typical two gap penetrator. But his explosive first step can collapse even an NFL pocket on impact giving Wade a nice rotational NG against heavier match-ups.

awtysst
04-25-2011, 09:57 AM
Babin = Played great this yr. Did he make the Pro Bowl? Texans coaching = stink

Williams = multiple pro bowls, teams got to do their homewrk and make sure of character issues. This is the reason I wouldn't take Jimmy Smith

Quinn = Bust, but he was a bottom of the 1st rd pick. #22 I believe.

Robertson= Bust, This is the only true high draft pick bust. The reason he busted was 1. Change in sheme the Jets drafted him as a 4-3 DT then the coaching staff got fired and Mangini brought in the 3-4 and Robertson wasn't a fit. Reason # 2 bad knees, The most important Robertson busted.

Vick= Had an MVP type season last yr. Atlanta needed to do their homework better. Although I'm not sure it would've mattered. Atlanta drafted Vick because he appealed to their fanbase and helped sell tickets.


Trading up in the top 10 for a high character players like Miller or Peterson isn't as big a risk as it might seem. IMHO This is in addition to Luckys later post.

Babin had 4-5 sacks a year in Houston not great. He had 2 in KC, 0 in Seattle, and 2.5 in Philadelphia. He finally had his breakout year at the age of 30. Up till now he has been a bust, lets see if this year was a an outlier year or a true measure of his ability. Considering it has taken him this long to show the goods, I'd say one year wonder.

Ricky: a massive mistake by New Orleans. They essentially traded their entire draft for him. He had 1 ginormous year(1800 yards) and a very good year of 1300. Outside of that he has been very average in the 1000 yard club(which if you do the math is only 62.5 a game over a season). Overrated, and I am a UT fan.

Quinn: agreed. He is a bust.

Robertson: also a bust, agreed.

Vick: a running QB that had one great season in Atlanta before the leave figured him out. He was a horrible passer in Atlanta and the league basically dared him tot throw to win the big games. He couldn't do it. The reason he had a great year last year was becuase he finally realized to be a good QB you have to be an accurate passer. Being a running Qb is fine, but games are won on the arm, not the legs. Once he figured that out and worked on it he had a great season. BUT, remember, the man is also 30+ years old, and had injury concerns last year. Let's see if he can string a couple more seasons like this before we can say anything about him.

I do not doubt that VM is a high character player, but being a high character player does not always work out.

awtysst
04-25-2011, 10:00 AM
I think a player has to pop positive at the combine in order to enter the league under the substance abuse program (like Carlos Rogers did). A failed drug test in college isn't relevant. The NFLPA would never agree to that, because the league doesn't administer the tests.

Thank you for correcting me. I wish we knew who failed a drug test at the combine. I guess we may know as some players, who are expected to be top picks, begin to slide more than we expected.

beerlover
04-25-2011, 11:01 AM
2011 NFL Draft: 50 Bold Predictions - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/674831-2011-nfl-draft-50-bold-predictions/page/35


34. Jordan Will Be Drafted by the Houston Texans
http://nfldraftgeek.com/Images/camjordan.jpg

California's Cameron Jordan is a perfect fit in Houston.

Houston Texan's newly signed defensive coordinator Wade Philips will be installing his 3-4 defense, in which Jordan will thrive.

DocBar
04-25-2011, 12:43 PM
2011 NFL Draft: 50 Bold Predictions - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/674831-2011-nfl-draft-50-bold-predictions/page/35


34. Jordan Will Be Drafted by the Houston Texans
http://nfldraftgeek.com/Images/camjordan.jpg

California's Cameron Jordan is a perfect fit in Houston.

Houston Texan's newly signed defensive coordinator Wade Philips will be installing his 3-4 defense, in which Jordan will thrive.

If this happens, I will fart in your general direction.

Ole Miss Texan
04-25-2011, 12:52 PM
2011 NFL Draft: 50 Bold Predictions - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/674831-2011-nfl-draft-50-bold-predictions/page/35


34. Jordan Will Be Drafted by the Houston Texans
http://nfldraftgeek.com/Images/camjordan.jpg

California's Cameron Jordan is a perfect fit in Houston.

Houston Texan's newly signed defensive coordinator Wade Philips will be installing his 3-4 defense, in which Jordan will thrive.

If we can draft Jordan and then trade up to get Brooks, I would quickly learn how to do backflips and then do them. Oh em gee

beerlover
04-25-2011, 10:55 PM
Regarding questions why draft a punter or developmental QB late rounds its because after Texans select Mr. Irrelevant there will be no un-drafted free agent signing post midnight Texans (other teams as well) would be wise to draft for need, make sure they address their needs so once camp opens they have the bodies where they need to be. Aaron Bates would be the Texans favorite coming into camp (whenever that is maybe a very short practice window before they start playing games) he is one of last years highest rated punters, team captain Michigan State, avg. 45 yards per kick also excellent directional location which should improve ability to better control field position & game decisions by Kubiak if he can trust his kicker to pin an offense deep or a defense stout enough to make a stop. There might also be a mad rush for QB's, especially once CBA resolved so identifying their QB this late becomes, well, less irrelevant. Have no inside information to conclude that Scott Tolzien would be Kubiaks target to develop moving forward but he plays in a similar system, so should be able to pick up the offense quickly, decent size/arm strength, smart, accurate arm 72.9% & does not turn it over 16 TD's to only 3 Int's. Also on the move, once possible is free agent to be Matt Leinart leaving only Orlovsky to back up Schaub.

beerlover
04-26-2011, 01:02 PM
like to see smart money is coming in :money:

http://www.examiner.com/houston-texans-in-houston/2011-examiner-com-mock-draft-texans-select-cameron-jordan?CID=examiner_alerts_article

beerlover
04-26-2011, 01:25 PM
& more smart money, thanks asleep-

Gosselin's 2nd Mock Draft:

1. Carolina: Cam Newton, QB, Auburn
2. Denver: Nick Fairley, DT, Auburn
3. Buffalo: Marcel Dareus, DT, Alabama
4. Cincinnati: Von Miller, OLB, Texas A
5. Arizona : A.J. Green, WR, Georgia
6. Cleveland : Julio Jones, WR, Alabama
7. San Francisco: Patrick Peterson, CB, LSU
8. Tennessee: Robert Quinn, DE, North Carolina
9. Cowboys: J.J. Watt, DE, Wisconsin
10. Washington: Prince Amukamara, CB, Nebraska
11. Houston: Cameron Jordan, DE, Cal
12. Minnesota: Blaine Gabbert, QB, Missouri
13. Detroit: Tyron Smith, OT, Southern Cal
14. St. Louis: Ryan Kerrigan, OLB, Purdue
15. Miami: Mike Pouncey, C, Florida
16. Jacksonville: DaQuan Bowers, DE, Clemson
17. New England: Mark Ingram, HB, Alabama
18. San Diego : Anthony Castonzo, OT, Boston College
19. New York Giants: Nate Solder, OT, Colorado
20. Tampa Bay: Corey Liuget, DT, Illinois
21. Kansas City: Phil Taylor, NT, Baylor
22. Indianapolis: Aldon Smith, DE, Missouri
23. Philadelphia: Gabe Carimi, OT, Wisconsin
24. New Orleans: Marvin Austin, DT, North Carolina
25. Seattle : Derrick Sherrod, OT, Mississippi State
26. Baltimore: Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio State
27. Atlanta: Kenrick Ellis, DT, Hampton
28. New England: Danny Watkins, G, Baylor
29. Chicago: Muhammad Wilkerson, DT, Temple
30. New York Jets: Brooks Reed, OLB, Arizona
31. Pittsburgh : Aaron Williams, CB, Texas
32. Green Bay: James Carpenter, OT, Alabama