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View Full Version : Prediction: Robert Quinn will be on the Board before and after Texans pick @ 11


IDEXAN
04-16-2011, 09:38 AM
There is no known precedent for this: When Robert Quinn takes the field for an NFL team this fall, he will do so with a brain tumor still inside his skull. Sporting News contacted officials at the National Brain Tumor Foundation and the American Brain Tumor Association, a historian at the Pro Football Hall of Fame and a doctor renowned for his knowledge of sports head injuries. None of them ever had heard of a football player—or athlete in any sport, for that matter—competing with such a condition.



Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-03-06/quinn-despite-brain-tumor-a-terror-to-quarterbacks#ixzz1JhEqCl4M
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As if it's not risky enough given the tremendous uncertainty of a person with this kind of medical situation and just when we are having all of this controversy on concussions and various kinds of injuries especially to the brain within the NFL, do you really think the Texans or anybody takes this guy in the top 11 ? Or for that matter anywhere in the first round ?

DocBar
04-16-2011, 10:10 AM
Wow!! That's a new one for sure. I guess if he's medically cleared and the MRI's look OK, he could have a great career. I'm sure CND will chime in with his usual sound opinion.

CloakNNNdagger
04-16-2011, 11:03 AM
Wow!! That's a new one for sure. I guess if he's medically cleared and the MRI's look OK, he could have a great career. I'm sure CND will chime in with his usual sound opinion.

This "brain tumor" seems to be descriptive of what is called an arachnoid cyst. It is a cystic structure (not a classic solid tumor) of the tissue layer between the brain itself and the skull, and creates symptoms by expanding in volume and placing increasing pressure on the brain. Theses can be treated in several ways.

The simplest is by minimally invasive needle through the skull and drawing out the fluid to relieve the pressure on the brain. Some surgeons will drill 1-2 cm burr holes through the skull to affect the same (sometimes with endoscopic assistance). The problem with these 2 approaches is that they can carry significant chance for rebuild up.

There is also another simple method that shunts the fluid from the cyst through silicone tubes connecting the cyst with various cavities (such as another part of the brain (where free normal drainage occurs or the abdominal cavity), to keep the cyst continually drained. This method though carries a life long risk of infection, since the shunt is a "foreign body"......and an infection communicating with the brain is alway serious. Not likely to be used in a contact sports athlete at any age.

The definitive way of dealing with this condition is cutting a large "window" out of the skull, lifting it up and removing the cyst (wall) en bloc (in one piece). Then the skull is securely replaced or replaced with a titanium plate.

It appears likely that it was the burr hole drainage approach that was taken....and no significant fluid build up has recurred. Although not 100% predicatable, it is probably unlikely that the cyst will continue to be a problem. However, his surgeon is wise to follow things with regular MRI's.

With modern techniques used for skull "window" replacement and secure refastening, even using this technique which has carried the greatest concern for return to contact sports, is felt to allow return safely after 1 year. (Going along with the burr hole technique, Quinn was allowed back to heavy-weight wrestling within 4 months).

I feel that this "brain tumor" SHOULD have very little effect on where Quinn SHOULD go. Whether it will or not??????................

DocBar
04-16-2011, 11:14 AM
The tumor certainly didn't affect his play. I wouldn't be butt hurt at all if we drafted him at #11.

IDEXAN
04-16-2011, 12:17 PM
I feel that this "brain tumor" SHOULD have very little effect on where Quinn SHOULD go. Whether it will or not??????................
Thank you C&D for your comprehensive and graphic comments, but may I respectfully suggest that the key word in DocBars observation that "the tumor certainly didn't affect his play" is "didn't" ? And even if GMs & owners in this Draft get the same kind of expert medical advise/consultation as yours, don't those people still have the human tendancy to avoid the risk of that long-shot, that one in a thousand or whatever chance this condition manifests itself into something very serious and dangerous ? Again ? Afterall it's not like there wouldn't be alternatives in the Draft choices ?

CloakNNNdagger
04-16-2011, 12:49 PM
Thank you C&D for your comprehensive and graphic comments, but may I respectfully suggest that the key word in DocBars observation that "the tumor certainly didn't affect his play" is "didn't" ? And even if GMs & owners in this Draft get the same kind of expert medical advise/consultation as yours, don't those people still have the human tendancy to avoid the risk of that long-shot, that one in a thousand or whatever chance this condition manifests itself into something very serious and dangerous ? Again ? Afterall it's not like there wouldn't be alternatives in the Draft choices ?

Arachnoid cysts are commonly present since early childhood and most are probably not diagnosed since they never become symptomatic. You are correct, "human nature" has a tendency to crop up in most decisions. However, with so many years removed from the procedure, with continued monitoring giving no significant concern to the operating surgeon, and with the review of medical records evidently revealing nothing to the contrary, "human nature" is the only factor that would preclude a logical approach. With the regular monitoring, it is extremely unlikely that this condition endangers his health. Even if this cyst does rebuild fluid in an extremely slow rate (years as would have to be in this case), and becomes symptomatic (still not a given) and it requires further treatment, redrainage would keep him off the field no longer than 4-6 months.

DocBar
04-16-2011, 12:53 PM
I really don't think this will be an issue for him. From what CND said and what I googled, I would be more concerned with Quinn getting himself banned from the NCAA and missing all of last season.
With this medical condition being unprecedented, I guess anything could happen.

CloakNNNdagger
04-16-2011, 01:03 PM
For anyone interested, here is a relevant article which identifies the concerns of the past and examples of surgeries some with formal "windows" performed through the skull.........including examples of athletes with arachoid cysts..........and their return to contact sports.

Participation in Contact or Collision Sports in Athletes: Craniotomy (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/553964_6)

beerlover
04-16-2011, 02:11 PM
nice effort IDEXAN, attempting to devalue his draft stock :cool:

Brisco_County
04-16-2011, 02:36 PM
I really don't think this will be an issue for him. From what CND said and what I googled, I would be more concerned with Quinn getting himself banned from the NCAA and missing all of last season.
With this medical condition being unprecedented, I guess anything could happen.

This would be the most likely reason he would not end up a Texan.

CloakNNNdagger
04-16-2011, 03:17 PM
This would be the most likely reason he would not end up a Texan.

Interesting story about the process of investigation, as well as the defense that the "gift" was not from an agent, but a "financial advisor."

Quinn: NCAA investigator searched text messages (http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/feed/2010-08/unc-investigation/story/quinn-ncaa-investigator-searched-text-messages)

edo783
04-16-2011, 05:36 PM
As I understand the Quinn tumor thing. It was a benign tumor found in high school. Not sure if it was the Cyst type CND spoke of. Operated on and removed. He has had MRI's every 6 months since with no issues seen. I think the operative word should be "Had" a tumor not has a tumor. Anyone know anything different?

Norg
04-16-2011, 05:44 PM
Who says we are picking him :P. Hopefully some of these teams below us snatch a qb. And leave some good defensive players to us

CloakNNNdagger
04-16-2011, 06:26 PM
As I understand the Quinn tumor thing. It was a benign tumor found in high school. Not sure if it was the Cyst type CND spoke of. Operated on and removed. He has had MRI's every 6 months since with no issues seen. I think the operative word should be "Had" a tumor not has a tumor. Anyone know anything different?


In medicine, tumors are considered an entity distinct from cysts. Cysts are sacs filled with fluid, air, or other materials. These would include structures such as ovarian cysts and sebaceous cysts (found just under the skin)......virtually always benign. Tumors are masses of abnormal growth of tissue......benign or malignant.

Both can be found anywhere in the body.

Some articles re: Quinn related that the structure was DRAINED and that it was NOT REMOVED (listen to Sporting News Video (http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-03-06/quinn-despite-brain-tumor-a-terror-to-quarterbacks)).

He never had a classic "tumor" (a term used by a nonmedical writer) at all and does not accordingly have one now. Likewise, he had a cyst structure which was drained, but the cyst wall itself was not removed. Most likely the cyst wall was intracranially shunted or fenestrated (holes were placed) so that any continued cystic wall fluid production would leak out into a surrounding area that had normal free drainage, thus disallowing recurrent fluid build up in a confined space with its accompanying expanding brain compression. With all this information, although never specifically identified, it is most probable that this is, indeed, an arachnoid cyst.

Lucky
04-16-2011, 11:16 PM
MSR in order to get back to CND.

Quinn has the most upside in Wade's system of any 3-4 OLB in the draft. He has the quickness, the size, the strength. He's the complete package. I just have zero confidence that the Texans medical staff will get this right, no matter what the recommendation on Quinn is.

Cynical? Yes. But, it's an earned cynicism.

beerlover
04-17-2011, 12:18 AM
MSR in order to get back to CND.

Quinn has the most upside in Wade's system of any 3-4 OLB in the draft. He has the quickness, the size, the strength. He's the complete package. I just have zero confidence that the Texans medical staff will get this right, no matter what the recommendation on Quinn is.

Cynical? Yes. But, it's an earned cynicism.

I would project Von Miller #1 3-4 OLB in the 2011 draft.

kiwitexansfan
04-17-2011, 11:12 PM
I would project Von Miller #1 3-4 OLB in the 2011 draft.

Think Quin's ceiling is higher but there are a lot of question marks to get there.

beerlover
04-18-2011, 12:12 AM
Think Quin's ceiling is higher but there are a lot of question marks to get there.

Quite simply, Quin is a natural 4-3 DE, upside is there but so is Von Miller as a 3-4 OLB. two different players, two different positions.

IDEXAN
05-03-2011, 07:27 AM
Any questions ?

Hottoddie
05-04-2011, 12:37 PM
Any questions ?

Yeah, can you answer the bolded question? :D

As if it's not risky enough given the tremendous uncertainty of a person with this kind of medical situation and just when we are having all of this controversy on concussions and various kinds of injuries especially to the brain within the NFL, do you really think the Texans or anybody takes this guy in the top 11 ? Or for that matter anywhere in the first round ?

IDEXAN
05-04-2011, 01:07 PM
Yeah, can you answer the bolded question? :D

You are obviously correct, as he did most certainly get drafted in the first round.
I thought he had a fair chance of being drafted before us but when he wasn't I was confidant we'd also pass on him. It's gonna be interesting to see what kind of career he now has in St Louis ?
And was I surprised that Aldon Smith was taken at #7, but it gave me some faith in Wade's ability to recognoze talent since we now know he wasn't the only one to see Smith's upside.

Trap_Star
05-04-2011, 01:08 PM
wasn't really a bold prediction....just sayin'.

IDEXAN
05-04-2011, 01:19 PM
wasn't really a bold prediction....just sayin'.

Nah man, you're mistaken. IMHO it was an utterly heart stopping call !

Ole Miss Texan
05-04-2011, 02:03 PM
And was I surprised that Aldon Smith was taken at #7, but it gave me some faith in Wade's ability to recognoze talent since we now know he wasn't the only one to see Smith's upside.
Smith to SF was a suprise to me too. I really did think he would go before us but had him pegged to Washington. I was thrilled when he was selected because I didn't really want him. I could get on board with the pick, it just wouldn't have been my favorite. So thankful for Watt.

IDEXAN
05-04-2011, 03:12 PM
Smith to SF was a suprise to me too. I really did think he would go before us but had him pegged to Washington. I was thrilled when he was selected because I didn't really want him. I could get on board with the pick, it just wouldn't have been my favorite. So thankful for Watt.
So you seem to be saying that Watt is a superior pick to Smith for the Texans ? Would you elaborate ? And was there a player(s) on the Texans Board at 11 that you prefered to Watt ?

Ole Miss Texan
05-04-2011, 03:39 PM
So you seem to be saying that Watt is a superior pick to Smith for the Texans ? Would you elaborate ? And was there a player(s) on the Texans Board at 11 that you prefered to Watt ?

I was a big proponent for Watt to be our selection and was yelling at the TV for it to be Watt when we were up. I think he's a much safer player than Smith who has quite a bit of bust potential (as does Quinn). I also think Watt has just as much upside as Smith or any other player in the draft for that matter, he does NOT have a low ceiling. I was also a big fan of Brooks Reed and advocated us trading up with NE at 28 or 33 if he was still there. I thought there would be a number of OLBs that would could get around our 2nd round pick that can be very successful.

I want an attitude change on this team. I want players that will work their freaking butt off and never give up. Will give 100% on every single play and that's why I'm thrilled we got Watt, Reed and Keo.

As far as other players I liked? I had Watt and Cameron Jordan as two targets and both fairly even. I kept going back and forth between the two. Leading up to the draft I settled in on Watt. I was hesitant about Smith/Quinn although if Wade really had liked one or gotten him I could have gotten on board. I was adamant against NOT taking Fairley or Prince Amukamara. I would have also liked a trade down if it had presented itself to us. I don't think Aldon Smith or Robert Quinn are THAT much better, if at all, than Brooks Reed and therefore didn't really want one at 11 when we could have gotten better value in the 20's or later.

beerlover
05-06-2011, 04:06 AM
I was a big proponent for Watt to be our selection and was yelling at the TV for it to be Watt when we were up. I think he's a much safer player than Smith who has quite a bit of bust potential (as does Quinn). I also think Watt has just as much upside as Smith or any other player in the draft for that matter, he does NOT have a low ceiling. I was also a big fan of Brooks Reed and advocated us trading up with NE at 28 or 33 if he was still there. I thought there would be a number of OLBs that would could get around our 2nd round pick that can be very successful.

I want an attitude change on this team. I want players that will work their freaking butt off and never give up. Will give 100% on every single play and that's why I'm thrilled we got Watt, Reed and Keo.

As far as other players I liked? I had Watt and Cameron Jordan as two targets and both fairly even. I kept going back and forth between the two. Leading up to the draft I settled in on Watt. I was hesitant about Smith/Quinn although if Wade really had liked one or gotten him I could have gotten on board. I was adamant against NOT taking Fairley or Prince Amukamara. I would have also liked a trade down if it had presented itself to us. I don't think Aldon Smith or Robert Quinn are THAT much better, if at all, than Brooks Reed and therefore didn't really want one at 11 when we could have gotten better value in the 20's or later.

I think Wade really wanted Aldon. SF caught them with their pants down, so to speak but had the presence to stick with their board & went to plan B. If Dallas had taken Watt then I think plan C would have been to trade down. I don't even know if Quinn was on their board? As for myself I never wavered on Cameron Jordan becoming a great player in this league but Watt is more a DT while Cameron mirrors Mario more so they wanted to stand him (Williams) up all along.

IDEXAN
05-06-2011, 04:30 PM
I think Wade really wanted Aldon. SF caught them with their pants down

I don't know how they "caught them with their pants down" ?
Had the Texans wanted him at 7, they probably could have got him from SF
had they thrown in their 3rd round pick, which I seriously doubt they would have done ? Maybe for Patrick Peterson, certainly for Von Miller neither of whom made it to 7, but I seriously doubt they'd have paid that price for Smith ? If so I think he'd now be our first round pick ?

beerlover
05-06-2011, 04:39 PM
I don't know how they "caught them with their pants down" ?
Had the Texans wanted him at 7, they probably could have got him from SF
had they thrown in their 3rd round pick, which I seriously doubt they would have done ? Maybe for Patrick Peterson, certainly for Von Miller neither of whom made it to 7, but I seriously doubt they'd have paid that price for Smith ? If so I think he'd now be our first round pick ?

doubt it, check Wade in presser, looks for sure to me like he expected him to still be on the board. which doesn't really matter to me cause I like Watt better anyway :wadepalm:

Rey
05-06-2011, 05:27 PM
I don't know how they "caught them with their pants down" ?
Had the Texans wanted him at 7, they probably could have got him from SF
had they thrown in their 3rd round pick, which I seriously doubt they would have done ? Maybe for Patrick Peterson, certainly for Von Miller neither of whom made it to 7, but I seriously doubt they'd have paid that price for Smith ? If so I think he'd now be our first round pick ?

Agreed.

I think the Texans knew it was a real possibility that Smith would go before their slot.

beerlover
05-06-2011, 05:33 PM
Agreed.

I think the Texans knew it was a real possibility that Smith would go before their slot.

Would like to see some evidence of that. If they thought that did they ever lob a call?

Rey
05-06-2011, 05:37 PM
Would like to see some evidence of that. If they thought that did they ever lob a call?

Do you have evidence to the contrary?

Do you know that they didn't lob a call?


It's just my opinion.

I just don't think the Texans were THAT unprepared as to expect a player like Aldon Smith to definitely be on the board when they picked. Really it doesn't even make much sense for them to do so...

I've heard a few people from the organization say they thought Watt would be off the board anyways...So even if they did expect Smith to be there, they probably had Watt as a higher rated player.

IDEXAN
05-06-2011, 06:06 PM
I seriously doubt the Texans would have payed additional consideration in the form of more draft picks for Smith, that's all I'm saying ? Rumors are they may have considered that for Miller or Peterson, but not Aldon Smith.
So why is there even an issue here about Smith ? Most said the #11 was rich for Smith, I've heard nobody suggest he was worth a top 7 pick ?
And this whole thing about drafting an edge-rusher with the first round pick was a mute issue anyway if you believe the story in the Houston Chronicle this morning which basically says that they didn't want to use their top pick on an edge-rusher to play the main rush position in Wades 3-4 because they'd already decided to go with Mario for that role.

badboy
05-06-2011, 06:10 PM
Do you have evidence to the contrary?

Do you know that they didn't lob a call?


It's just my opinion.

I just don't think the Texans were THAT unprepared as to expect a player like Aldon Smith to definitely be on the board when they picked. Really it doesn't even make much sense for them to do so...

I've heard a few people from the organization say they thought Watt would be off the board anyways...So even if they did expect Smith to be there, they probably had Watt as a higher rated player.I did not see anyone picking Smith that high and it stunned me. Worked out great as I like Watt & think Reed will be very good.

drs23
05-06-2011, 06:57 PM
I did not see anyone picking Smith that high and it stunned me. Worked out great as I like Watt & think Reed will be very good.

badboy,

How good do you see them playing in their 1st & 2nd seasons? Pro bowlers, "very good" you think?

Rey
05-06-2011, 07:38 PM
I did not see anyone picking Smith that high and it stunned me. Worked out great as I like Watt & think Reed will be very good.

I can understand a person or a team being a little shocked or surprised at what a team does on draft day.

But I just don't see any NFL team being caught completely off guard when a player they like goes ahead of where they are picking.

Doesn't matter if it was 10 spots ahead of you or 1 spot. You should not be caught completely off guard when a player you covet is taken ahead of you.

beerlover
05-06-2011, 08:05 PM
Giving me an excuse to watch DVR of NFL day one. So for no surprise Cam Newton w/first pick.... Just play along I want to hear led up to Texans as it happened.

beerlover
05-06-2011, 08:09 PM
Teams are wasting no time making picks so far. Von Miller #2 Dareus #3.

beerlover
05-06-2011, 08:12 PM
Bengals pick already in, are the Texans calling Arizona? Aj green gone. Less than 8 minutes, gotta hurry

beerlover
05-06-2011, 08:15 PM
Quick shot of Cardinal War Room, then ad, maybe Texans are calling?

beerlover
05-06-2011, 08:22 PM
Cleveland #6th pick Texans only 5 picks away maybe they trade up? Nope announced trade with Atlanta from 27. Texans never had a chance.

beerlover
05-06-2011, 08:24 PM
Network mentioned Blaine Gabbert there for the 49'ers

Quick shot of 49er war room & commercial break.

beerlover
05-06-2011, 08:31 PM
49ers pick while on break. Mayock mentioned both Prince & Smith. There goes Smith three years removed from his High School Prom. Guys seem to like pick no mention of any trade offers

beerlover
05-06-2011, 08:33 PM
Locker 8th first shocker of the draft to Titans.

beerlover
05-06-2011, 08:35 PM
Cowboys war room before commercial break look docile, did they want Aldon Smith too?

beerlover
05-06-2011, 08:41 PM
Cowboys on phone, taking all their time. Trying to trade out? Prince/Tyron? Nobody taking clock under one minute.

beerlover
05-06-2011, 08:46 PM
Quin is still available, so is Gabbert. Trade
With Jacksonville give up 2nd rd. Pick for Gabbert.

beerlover
05-06-2011, 08:54 PM
Network likes Prince to Texans. Some time coming off the clock.
No shots of Texans war room. Teams willing to trade up texans listening. 4:30 left on clock with JJ Watt. Network likes Prince says
WOW watt over prince.

That's it Texans content to let the draft
Come to them, no apparent attempt
To move
Up.
That's
My case.

b0ng
05-07-2011, 11:34 PM
I think if Nick Fairley was in the title instead of Quinn this would be much more impressive (Not to say that guessing right on Quinn isn't pretty good in of itself). I was really surprised that he was still available and that he didn't get scooped up by the Vikes.

As far as trades go, I do think the Texans had Smith as the #1 target until SF got him. They just went down their board (like a normal person would) and decided Watt was the guyn