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Brisco_County
04-14-2011, 01:31 PM
From the Pittsburgh-Post Gazette and Redzone.org:

Ed Bouchette of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reports that the Houston Texans will try to sign 30-year-old cornerback Ike Taylor this offseason. Taylor would be significantly closer to home as he lives in New Orleans.

Link (http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/16374/Texans-eye-Steelers-cornerback/Default.aspx)

kiwitexansfan
04-14-2011, 01:51 PM
Wow, who would of dreamed the Texans would go after an experienced CB in FA.

You could substitute the name of pretty much every FA CB in the league and you would be pretty close to the truth.

HOU-TEX
04-14-2011, 01:51 PM
Interesting, but I think it'll have a lot to do with what the Steelers do in the draft too. Last I heard, the Steelers wanted him back. If that's the case, most players would rather stay with a winner. Unless of course the Texans pay out the nose for him.

Texan4Ever
04-14-2011, 01:53 PM
I would sign him and Aso if possible. Now that would be a hell of a CB tandum...:smiliedance:

Ole Miss Texan
04-14-2011, 01:59 PM
I've had this penciled in for a long time... I think it was Lance that mentioned this months ago. I have a feeling Smith/McNair will pay more than the Steelers are willing to. I just think this makes too much sense.

Would hugely upgrade our secondary. Taylor - Jackson at CB, Quin at FS! woo!

Mr teX
04-14-2011, 02:01 PM
if the only knock on him is that he doesn't catch enough ints (per the link) i'll take that in a heartbeat.....so long as he can cover & locate the ball when it's in the air, i'll settle for a pass defensed :fingergun:.

El Tejano
04-14-2011, 02:07 PM
if the only knock on him is that he doesn't catch enough ints (per the link) i'll take that in a heartbeat.....so long as he can cover & locate the ball when it's in the air, i'll settle for a pass defensed :fingergun:.

You got that right. How many times would we have loved for a pass to be even knocked down so we could get a win?

Ole Miss Texan, I've had this penciled in for a while. I believe in a few FA tracker threads I've mentioned going with Ike Taylor over Aso because he will not cost as much and seems to be a bit more physical CB.

Part of me wants to tell me not to get too happy about this report because A)The Texans never do what I'd like to see them do. B) Taylor's agent could be leaking this so that Pittsburgh tries to give him the deal he wants.

CloakNNNdagger
04-14-2011, 02:16 PM
Ike Taylor: Steelers should be able to re-sign Ike Taylor Ike Taylor - DB - PIT - Mar. 23 - 2:52 pm et

The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review predicts that the Steelers won't struggle to re-sign free agent RCB Ike Taylor.

"The reason? Simple," writes beat reporter Scott Brown. "The veteran cornerback wants to stay in Pittsburgh and the Steelers want him back." Taylor, 31 in May, may want to consider a deal similar to the one signed by Sheldon Brown, 31 at the time, in Cleveland last spring. Taylor is better than Brown, but the three-year, $15.25 million pact could be a jump-off point. Mar. 23 - 2:52 pm et

Source: Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

DocBar
04-14-2011, 02:34 PM
He could be a good addition to the team. I wouldn't mind over paying for a guy like him as much as if the Texans had paid D-douche(drob) the money.

Ole Miss Texan
04-14-2011, 03:16 PM
Ike Taylor: Steelers should be able to re-sign Ike Taylor Ike Taylor - DB - PIT - Mar. 23 - 2:52 pm et

I'm thinking the Texans will offer Taylor a contract that's basically double that of Sheldon Browns. I'm sure he wants to stay with Pitt and they'd love to keep him but we see this time and time again - money often wins.

HOU-TEX
04-14-2011, 03:19 PM
I can see it being like the Bodden situation. We'll up the contract, Steelers will match and he'll remain a Steeler.

infantrycak
04-14-2011, 03:21 PM
The funny thing is just about everyone would endorse signing Ike Taylor this off-season but a year or two from now he won't count as a significant free agent signing if/when we have that discussion again.

dtran04
04-14-2011, 03:30 PM
Yeah people will turn on him and blast him for never catching interceptions. Plus, who knows how he looks without the Steeler pass rush.

DocBar
04-14-2011, 03:31 PM
Sigh....no faith...or maybe too realistic....

Ole Miss Texan
04-14-2011, 03:34 PM
I can see it being like the Bodden situation. We'll up the contract, Steelers will match and he'll remain a Steeler.

Ugh that would be such a tease 2.0 I'm hoping Smith has that in the back of his head and doesn't play around once we're allowed to start talking.

beerlover
04-14-2011, 03:35 PM
The funny thing is just about everyone would endorse signing Ike Taylor this off-season but a year or two from now he won't count as a significant free agent signing if/when we have that discussion again.

Another wet blanket cast over the flame by one of our most be-loved moderators

Guess it's really happened that Texan fan base has been beaten into apathy & state of submission :dangit:

CloakNNNdagger
04-14-2011, 03:46 PM
I'm thinking the Texans will offer Taylor a contract that's basically double that of Sheldon Browns. I'm sure he wants to stay with Pitt and they'd love to keep him but we see this time and time again - money often wins.

I can see it being like the Bodden situation. We'll up the contract, Steelers will match and he'll remain a Steeler.

It's all in the PRESENTATION, Texans!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xMpWlkDFvRU/TVWY8Nmoo-I/AAAAAAAAAgs/AOfZ4vwZZgQ/s1600/stripper%2Bmoney.jpg

gary
04-14-2011, 03:47 PM
I'll believe it when I see it.

infantrycak
04-14-2011, 03:51 PM
Another wet blanket cast over the flame by one of our most be-loved moderators

Nah really. Just an observation this is all so predictable.

We have to get a veteran CB (or whatever).

Yay, we signed Ike Taylor.

The Texans paid too much.

[Texans have an underwhelming season]

Next off-season.

Ike was overrated to begin with and the Texans were stupid for getting such an old CB.

The Texans never do anything in free agency.

McNair is cheap.

False Start
04-14-2011, 04:04 PM
Nah really. Just an observation this is all so predictable.

We have to get a veteran CB (or whatever).

Yay, we signed Ike Taylor.

The Texans paid too much.

[Texans have an underwhelming season]

Next off-season.

Ike was overrated to begin with and the Texans were stupid for getting such an old CB.

The Texans never do anything in free agency.

McNair is cheap.

Spot on! That is exactly how it would play out.

What a hell of a fanbase we have. lol :dontknowa

CloakNNNdagger
04-14-2011, 04:08 PM
Just dug this up on Russell's twitter account. He shows some great insight.:thinking:

The motivation for me, is them telling me what I can not be.... O well!!

8:07 AM Mar 9th via Twitter for iPhone

disaacks3
04-14-2011, 04:21 PM
The funny thing is just about everyone would endorse signing Ike Taylor this off-season but a year or two from now he won't count as a significant free agent signing if/when we have that discussion again.Is he Aso? No, not really close. Zero Pro Bowls and a guy who was benched by Cowher (after starting) aren't exactly the perfect things I look for in a CB. Would he be an improvement for the WORST pass-defense in the league..sure.

Nah really. Just an observation this is all so predictable.

We have to get a veteran CB (or whatever).

Yay, we signed Ike Taylor.

The Texans paid too much.

[Texans have an underwhelming season]

Next off-season.

Ike was overrated to begin with and the Texans were stupid for getting such an old CB.

The Texans never do anything in free agency.

McNair is cheap. The two bolded wouldn't exactly be a stretch for a 30 yr-old CB with his resume.

Hey, I'd love to have him, but he's nowhere near the top of the CB heap.

Hagar
04-14-2011, 04:25 PM
Looks like some nice offseason chatter, but that's about it.

Also, here's another perspective:

Steelers' Ike Taylor ready to cash in? (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/NFL-offseason-tip-sheet-Ike-Taylor-Pittsburgh-Steelers-021111)

Given their uncanny ability to draft, develop and advance players, the Pittsburgh Steelers rarely lose a veteran for whom they don't have a ready and able replacement. But the AFC champions might be out of luck in supplanting corner Ike Taylor if he departs via free agency.

Taylor's agent, Joel Segal, told The Sports Xchange this week that there have been "zero negotiations" to date and that he expects the eight-year veteran to be "a very hot guy" in free agency.

As we all know, Texans' don't pay big money to FA.

Mr teX
04-14-2011, 04:26 PM
Nah really. Just an observation this is all so predictable.

We have to get a veteran CB (or whatever).

Yay, we signed Ike Taylor.

The Texans paid too much.

[Texans have an underwhelming season]

Next off-season.

Ike was overrated to begin with and the Texans were stupid for getting such an old CB.

The Texans never do anything in free agency.

McNair is cheap.

Ding Ding Ding we have a winner!!

Somebody please rep this man b/c i can't.

infantrycak
04-14-2011, 04:38 PM
Is he Aso? No, not really close.

I agree but then again part of the observation was on age and Aso is one year younger.

Hey, I'd love to have him, but he's nowhere near the top of the CB heap.

Actually he is in the top of this off-season pool and that's what counts. There is Aso and then a bunch of guys. To me Brent Grimes is the best prospect after Aso. Then you have Taylor, Jonathon Joseph (no pro-bowls but younger), Carlos Rogers (no pro-bowls and hands of stone), Ronde Barber (36 years old) and Cromartie. And at least half those guys will probably sign up with their current teams.

ChampionTexan
04-14-2011, 05:26 PM
I agree but then again part of the observation was on age and Aso is one year younger.



Actually he is in the top of this off-season pool and that's what counts. There is Aso and then a bunch of guys. To me Brent Grimes is the best prospect after Aso. Then you have Taylor, Jonathon Joseph (no pro-bowls but younger), Carlos Rogers (no pro-bowls and hands of stone), Ronde Barber (36 years old) and Cromartie. And at least half those guys will probably sign up with their current teams.

Barber already did - he signed a one year contract before the lockout was imposed.

The Pencil Neck
04-14-2011, 05:43 PM
Hey, I'd love to have him, but he's nowhere near the top of the CB heap.

He's one of the best options available in FA this offseason. Probably top 2-3 guy.

It's like when people knocked getting Ahman Green. He didn't work out but he was one of the top free agents available at the time.

Hopefully, we get this guy and he turns out better than Ahman Green did.

GP
04-14-2011, 07:16 PM
Meh.

I figure if your biggest weakness is Z, then you better get the best Z you can.

Our biggest weakness is a savvy CB presence. The greatest CB practitioner available is Aso. Proven track record, smart player, no off-the-field problems, multiple Pro Bowls. The best of Z that's available. Possibly the CB equivalent of Andre Johnson--Two guys who continuously over-achieve on perennially awful teams.

I want the best CB available. Grimes as a Plan B.

In a year when you can get Aso without having to do a trade and sacrifice draft picks, you do it. Especially if you're the Houston Texans and you haven't had a competent CB since Aaron Glenn.

Look, Bob, you paid big money for David Carr and kept him a year longer than logistically necessary--An $8 million one-year "last chance for redemption" shot for Carr. A tale of two different career tracks, eh?

But yeah, let's go after Ike Taylor. It's the smart move. :fingergun:

disaacks3
04-14-2011, 07:35 PM
He's one of the best options available in FA this offseason. Probably top 2-3 guy.

It's like when people knocked getting Ahman Green. He didn't work out but he was one of the top free agents available at the time.

Hopefully, we get this guy and he turns out better than Ahman Green did.

"Top 2-3" of those AVAILABLE, but nowhere near the top overall. Just like Ahman Green. ....and several other signings the Texans have made over the years.

infantrycak
04-14-2011, 07:38 PM
Meh.

I figure if your biggest weakness is Z, then you better get the best Z you can.

Our biggest weakness is a savvy CB presence. The greatest CB practitioner available is Aso. Proven track record, smart player, no off-the-field problems, multiple Pro Bowls. The best of Z that's available. Possibly the CB equivalent of Andre Johnson--Two guys who continuously over-achieve on perennially awful teams.

I want the best CB available. Grimes as a Plan B.

In a year when you can get Aso without having to do a trade and sacrifice draft picks, you do it. Especially if you're the Houston Texans and you haven't had a competent CB since Aaron Glenn.

But yeah, let's go after Ike Taylor. It's the smart move. :fingergun:

OK, you are GP the GM. Is there any cut-off on Aso? What if he wants $20 mil per year? What if he wants his entire 7 year, $140 mil contract guaranteed? Where would you draw the line if there is any line other than having Aso sign his own check out of McNair's wallet?

The Pencil Neck
04-14-2011, 07:53 PM
"Top 2-3" of those AVAILABLE, but nowhere near the top overall. Just like Ahman Green. ....and several other signings the Texans have made over the years.

That's the whole point of AVAILABLE.

The guys that aren't available are guys that you can't get so you shouldn't get yourself bent out of shape when you don't get them.

Lucky
04-14-2011, 07:53 PM
I'm thinking the Texans will offer Taylor a contract that's basically double that of Sheldon Browns. I'm sure he wants to stay with Pitt and they'd love to keep him but we see this time and time again - money often wins.
Don't get crazy.

We're not going to do something we think is crazy
If and when freen agancy hits, it will be crazy. Some teams will not find a seat when the game of cornerback chairs ends. The Texans should be considering every vet CB available. From Aso, down to Taylor. If not Aso, I would prefer Joseph or Cromartie. But, beggars are rarely choosers.

awtysst
04-14-2011, 08:10 PM
Taylor would be a breath of fresh air in our secondary. He may not be as great as he was last year, but he would instantly be the best CB the Texans have EVER had.

If the Texans sign one of the following CBs:Aso, Jonathan Joseph, Chris Carrr, or Ike it will be a major improvement for their secondary.

ATXtexanfan
04-14-2011, 08:16 PM
i'm sure his agent planted this story to drive up the price

Hervoyel
04-14-2011, 08:28 PM
I'm kind of in the "Nothing short of Aso is going to get my attention" group. Look, the Texans have demonstrated a consistent ability to find and sign the one guy who doesn't even come close to what they want. They don't want to do anything crazy. They don't want to sign an over the hill player for too much. They are committed to getting better through the draft. They want to win as much if not more than any of the fans.

Yet time and time again they screw this stuff up. Can't get it done, won't take a chance, refuse to pay the going rate. That's the Houston Texans. They find diamonds when they luck into them. They sign important, franchise changing free agents... well, "never" really.

The Texans will consider signing Steelers CB Ike Taylor. If he's really worth signing the Steelers will somehow find a way to sign him. If he ends up playing for the Houston Texans he'll be a waste of a roster spot signed a year too late, collecting more money than he's worth and not living up to expectations. We've seen this same story play out over and over again.

Meanwhile somebody will sign Aso to a contract that will appear high and in 2-3 years will be commonplace and lock their secondary down for the rest of AJ's career.

Was Denver able to field a team despite having to pay for Champ Bailey? Did the Raiders manage to field a team with Aso on the roster? Are the Redskins able to go play Free Agent Shenanigans year after year and yet somehow continue to make moves and sign players? Sure but the Houston Texans can't go out and pay big money ONE TIME for the only sure thing I've maybe ever seen at the CB position.

Story of their existence guys.

2slik4u
04-14-2011, 08:40 PM
Yeah people will turn on him and blast him for never catching interceptions. Plus, who knows how he looks without the Steeler pass rush.

This is the big deal right here, although Im still more than willing to take that chance with Wade's pass rush.

Im an optimist.

Brisco_County
04-14-2011, 09:09 PM
Part of Taylor's value is in on-the-field coaching. It's a good acquisition, and we'll offer more than the Steelers. I would think that part of McNair's offer to Phillips would've been to loosen the wallet just a tad for FA's this season.

buddyboy
04-14-2011, 09:13 PM
Is he Aso? No, not really close. Zero Pro Bowls and a guy who was benched by Cowher (after starting) aren't exactly the perfect things I look for in a CB. Would he be an improvement for the WORST pass-defense in the league..sure.

The two bolded wouldn't exactly be a stretch for a 30 yr-old CB with his resume.

Hey, I'd love to have him, but he's nowhere near the top of the CB heap.

Oh look, it's already happening

steelbtexan
04-14-2011, 09:21 PM
I'll believe it when I see it.

Me too

While Taylor would be an OK signing.

I'm with Herv, BoB needs to shoot for the best (ASO) if he's serious about winning.

BoB, think of all of the good will you would get if you signed ASO. Instead of most of the fans in Houston ? your motives.

Come on BoB open your wallet. You can afford it.

CloakNNNdagger
04-14-2011, 09:43 PM
I'm kind of in the "Nothing short of Aso is going to get my attention" group. Look, the Texans have demonstrated a consistent ability to find and sign the one guy who doesn't even come close to what they want. They don't want to do anything crazy. They don't want to sign an over the hill player for too much. They are committed to getting better through the draft. They want to win as much if not more than any of the fans.

Yet time and time again they screw this stuff up. Can't get it done, won't take a chance, refuse to pay the going rate. That's the Houston Texans. They find diamonds when they luck into them. They sign important, franchise changing free agents... well, "never" really.

The Texans will consider signing Steelers CB Ike Taylor. If he's really worth signing the Steelers will somehow find a way to sign him. If he ends up playing for the Houston Texans he'll be a waste of a roster spot signed a year too late, collecting more money than he's worth and not living up to expectations. We've seen this same story play out over and over again.

Meanwhile somebody will sign Aso to a contract that will appear high and in 2-3 years will be commonplace and lock their secondary down for the rest of AJ's career.

Was Denver able to field a team despite having to pay for Champ Bailey? Did the Raiders manage to field a team with Aso on the roster? Are the Redskins able to go play Free Agent Shenanigans year after year and yet somehow continue to make moves and sign players? Sure but the Houston Texans can't go out and pay big money ONE TIME for the only sure thing I've maybe ever seen at the CB position.

Story of their existence guys.

Me too

While Taylor would be an OK signing.

I'm with Herv, BoB needs to shoot for the best (ASO) if he's serious about winning.

BoB, think of all of the good will you would get if you signed ASO. Instead of most of the fans in Houston ? your motives.

Come on BoB open your wallet. You can afford it.

Confucius say

When it is obvious that the goals cannot be reached, don't adjust the goals, adjust the action steps.

imatexan
04-14-2011, 10:58 PM
As a Steelers fan between when we lost the Oilers and when the Texans came I still keep up with them and Ike would be a good pickup.

30 is not that old of an age but he is obviously a vet and has played on a winning team his whole career. I will take someone who can cover, which he can, over someone who makes a few more INT's.

Tonaaayyyy
04-15-2011, 12:43 AM
Is Ike getting a free dinner yet?

VTexan
04-15-2011, 01:02 AM
Or even Champ Bailey (for a 2-3 year deal)

SAMURAITEXAN
04-15-2011, 01:45 AM
When you are 30yrs old and what about 4-5yrs left in your tank and an offer from Texans is about a half mil higher per year, wouldn't you seriously consider moving to Houston where his home is much more closer? It is solely depends on contract structure but if everything is same and only difference is the amount you get paid for. I would strongly consider moving to Houston. Because, the difference in total come to 2-2.5mil in 4-5yrs span and no state tax. The difference is bigger the better but key is not to over pay but enough to persuade the guy to move.

Go Texans!!!

Lucky
04-15-2011, 05:45 AM
Or even Champ Bailey (for a 2-3 year deal)
Bailey re-signed with Denver prior to the lockout going into effect.

Ole Miss Texan
04-15-2011, 08:55 AM
Bailey re-signed with Denver prior to the lockout going into effect.

And I think Brent Grimes and Johnathan Joseph got the highest tenders (1st round pick or a 1st + 3rd). That could be a moot point though when a new CBA is agreed to but you never know.

GP
04-15-2011, 08:56 AM
OK, you are GP the GM. Is there any cut-off on Aso? What if he wants $20 mil per year? What if he wants his entire 7 year, $140 mil contract guaranteed? Where would you draw the line if there is any line other than having Aso sign his own check out of McNair's wallet?

I don't know the ins and outs of how to structure and NFL contract when weighed against the team's other roster contracts and how it mingles with the salary cap.

I've tried to click on the links, on this board, and follow the trail down into the rabbit hole (to see how it all works) and I just get more confused by all the clauses and legal mumbo jumbo. I'm not a numbers guy, that's why I hired a GM--To do the numbers.

But I don't think the owner is serious about the serious problems on this team. In his mind, he made the ultimate STEAL by signing Wade Phillips who openly stated that he can work with what he had without doing too much damage to the roster as it currently stands. In Bob's world, the Wade Phillips acquisition will transform this defense and nullify any real need to overhaul the defensive players. We've been signaled what bob's mindset is: Wade Phillips can make things all better, make the boo-boo not hurt anymore.

Can I answer your question directly? Not with any semblance of accuracy as it pertains to how the numbers work. But I can say that the proverbial "line in the sand" should be a very generous amount. Will it be Aso's last contract, therefore a big doozy of an amount as a one-last-ride contract? Maybe it should be. Might as well lock up a gentleman who plays his position very well and let him play AND coach up his fellow secondary players while he's here (a two-for-one idea). What if it's a short contract, loaded up like a keg stuffed with TNT in the cartoons, and therefore you don't have years and years of dead money like the longer contracts designed by Casserly that took us a long time to be rid of? Maybe it would work. I dunno.

All I know is that I think we should have let Owen Daniels walk due to how we always have depth at TE. I don't recall Demeco Ryans' situation--if he's signed already, which I think he did so recently (last season?)-- but I would try and do something to get him off my team's payroll too (that's a nasty injury he sustained, and I think it will negatively affect his speed on the field) and then I'd also go with a LB in round 1 of this year's draft to grab a 3-4 guy for Wade to shape up. Pair him up with Barwin to make a great duo, then you got Cushing in there too.

The premiere, no-hassle "Andre Johnson in CB clothes" guy is out there and all I can think is that somehow the Texans already know that his asking price is too high. And "asking price" is a relative term when it comes to how the NFL teams decide to spend their money.

Bob is an ultra-loyal guy to his current players, which is good. It's the "getting here" part that seems to be the most daunting challenge to any available NFL player who might come here to play.

I'm a Grimes guy, too, but that Steelers defense has been so historically full of depth and talent that I don't know if Ike Taylor is as good as the whole unit that surrounds him. That's why I like Aso and Grimes: Two guys who stand out among their teammates.

HoustonFrog
04-15-2011, 08:59 AM
Nah really. Just an observation this is all so predictable.

We have to get a veteran CB (or whatever).

Yay, we signed Ike Taylor.

The Texans paid too much.

[Texans have an underwhelming season]

Next off-season.

Ike was overrated to begin with and the Texans were stupid for getting such an old CB.

The Texans never do anything in free agency.

McNair is cheap.

The funny part about this isn't that you are predicting it but the fact that many think that Ike Taylor is mediocre to start with and just had a better cast...Jacques Reeves anyone? Just saying he has holes. The scenario above works because it is true almost every year. Just because it is now trendy to guess what realists will say doesn't mean it isn't true.

GP
04-15-2011, 09:28 AM
The funny part about this isn't that you are predicting it but the fact that many think that Ike Taylor is mediocre to start with...Jacques Reeves anyone? Just saying he has holes. The scenario above works because it is true almost every year. Just because it is now trendy to guess what realists will say doesn't mean it isn't true.

Yeah, I noticed the same thing. I like how it gets turned around and projected back onto the fans in a way that we're the ones left holding the bag at the end of the day.

We just can't be pleased. We're whiners. No matter what happens, we just sit here and complain and say the team's administrative personnel didn't do enough for us. Bad fans.

Griping by fans is a "situation of degrees." Fans of perennial losers are going to naturally scrutinize with a harsh tone and maybe get extreme in their criticism. Fans of perennial playoff teams are going to be critical, but acknowledging that "at least we're not the Texans!" And fans of Super Bowl contenders are going to focus upon those few areas that they think should be tweaked in order to win the whol enchilada. Each type of fan is going to weigh in with what he thinks can get his team to the next level.

We're stuck in the bottom tier of the NFL fan base population. We're not happy with pretty much the whole team, because we're not advancing to the playoffs every year. It's a total "team" problem, as opposed to just needing a competent run defense to get us to the top of the heap and win a title next year. BIG difference, and as such this team's fans have every right to villify the Texans until the "team" strings together enough wins to show that it can compete with the top teams who contend for a title every season.

IMO, this "team" is not just a Cornerback away from being awesome. It's a great start, though. IMO, this team has problems in many areas on both sides of the ball. While Kubiak has created a competent offense and competent players to run it...I think he micro-manages the weekly gameplan AND the gameday playcalling too much. At some point, he has to let Schaub lead more than Schaub is being allowed. So I want to clarify that while Aso is THE best remedy for our secondary woes, we're still way off track in term of what the "team" has to do in order to be better on Sundays.

SAMURAITEXAN
04-15-2011, 10:16 AM
Daniel san, you have to keep practice if you want to win the tournament. Wax on, Wax off. Do you understand? Ohhh Daniel san, if you have a high expectation without practice, you will lose. Reality is the key Daniel san. If you have a high expectation and lose, you will be disappointed and angry to yourself. But, if you realize your current level, you will be less angry and less disappointment. Remember, Expectation vs Reality Daniel san!

By Mr. Miyagi

Malloy
04-15-2011, 10:48 AM
It's all in the PRESENTATION, Texans!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xMpWlkDFvRU/TVWY8Nmoo-I/AAAAAAAAAgs/AOfZ4vwZZgQ/s1600/stripper%2Bmoney.jpg

Where do you find these pictures, seriously ;)

The Pencil Neck
04-15-2011, 11:00 AM
Okay, so according to Walter Football, the guys that are currently available in FA are:

1. Nnamdi Asomugha
2. Jonathon Joseph
3. Chris Carr
4. Ike Taylor
5. Antonio Cromartie
6. Josh Wilson

Aso can go anywhere he wants and he can basically write his own contract. I don't think there's a team in the league that wouldn't want him and wouldn't give him a ton of cash. I don't think it's physically possible to out-bid another team for his services because whatever we bid, someone else will match. I think it's going to come down to Aso deciding to go to a team that he wants to play on. I don't think that's going to be the Texans but it would be great if it was.

I thought Joseph was tendered for the max, a first and a third. And I was expecting them to franchise him. I'm not sure what's up with the CBA and how that impacts those moves. I would love to get this guy but I'm not sure he's really available.

For any of the rest of these guys, you can find something about them not to like.

We need to end up with one of these guys by the time the season starts. But if we don't end up with one of the top 2 guys, then a lot of people are going to be upset and say bad things about the FO even if it wasn't actually possible to get them.

disaacks3
04-15-2011, 11:00 AM
That's the whole point of AVAILABLE.

The guys that aren't available are guys that you can't get so you shouldn't get yourself bent out of shape when you don't get them. I'm not bent out of shape and honestly, he'd be an improvement over what we have. But, let's not delude ourselves into thinking that Ike Taylor is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Don't get crazy.

If and when free agency hits, it will be crazy. Some teams will not find a seat when the game of cornerback chairs ends. The Texans should be considering every vet CB available. From Aso, down to Taylor. If not Aso, I would prefer Joseph or Cromartie. But, beggars are rarely choosers. Agreed, we should get all the help we can.

I'm kind of in the "Nothing short of Aso is going to get my attention" group. Look, the Texans have demonstrated a consistent ability to find and sign the one guy who doesn't even come close to what they want. They don't want to do anything crazy. They don't want to sign an over the hill player for too much. They are committed to getting better through the draft. They want to win as much if not more than any of the fans.

Yet time and time again they screw this stuff up. Can't get it done, won't take a chance, refuse to pay the going rate. That's the Houston Texans. They find diamonds when they luck into them. They sign important, franchise changing free agents... well, "never" really.

The Texans will consider signing Steelers CB Ike Taylor. If he's really worth signing the Steelers will somehow find a way to sign him. If he ends up playing for the Houston Texans he'll be a waste of a roster spot signed a year too late, collecting more money than he's worth and not living up to expectations. We've seen this same story play out over and over again.

Meanwhile somebody will sign Aso to a contract that will appear high and in 2-3 years will be commonplace and lock their secondary down for the rest of AJ's career.

Was Denver able to field a team despite having to pay for Champ Bailey? Did the Raiders manage to field a team with Aso on the roster? Are the Redskins able to go play Free Agent Shenanigans year after year and yet somehow continue to make moves and sign players? Sure but the Houston Texans can't go out and pay big money ONE TIME for the only sure thing I've maybe ever seen at the CB position.

Story of their existence guys. I'm with you Herv, but I really hope we're wrong.

Oh look, it's already happening I'm a realist, what can I say. All the message board chest-thumping in the world isn't going to make Ike Turner into the corner that Aso is.

The Pencil Neck
04-15-2011, 11:05 AM
i'm not bent out of shape and honestly, he'd be an improvement over what we have. But lets not delude ourselves into thinking that Ike Taylor is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I'm a realist, what can I say. All the message board chest-thumping in the world isn't going to make Ike Turner into the corner that Aso is.

I don't think anyone thinks that Ike Taylor approaches being in Aso's class. No one's making that argument.

But odds are, he's the best we can get and he's an improvement over what we have. And our goal this offseason should be to improve our team.

And all of this ignores the fact that we might not even be able to get him. He's on a Steeler team that has a defense that the Texans can only fantasize about having. We can offer him a lot of money and he cold still turn us down to stay somewhere he knows he can be more successful. He could turn us down to go to another team with a better shot at getting to the SB.

We're not exactly in a position of strength, bargaining-wise.

disaacks3
04-15-2011, 11:22 AM
I don't think anyone thinks that Ike Taylor approaches being in Aso's class. No one's making that argument.

But odds are, he's the best we can get and he's an improvement over what we have. And our goal this offseason should be to improve our team.

And all of this ignores the fact that we might not even be able to get him. He's on a Steeler team that has a defense that the Texans can only fantasize about having. We can offer him a lot of money and he cold still turn us down to stay somewhere he knows he can be more successful. He could turn us down to go to another team with a better shot at getting to the SB.

We're not exactly in a position of strength, bargaining-wise. No argument here. My point was that some on here would consider signing Ike a "Big Move", when I see it as a relatively "small splash". I would never classify it as a big, bold move to get better.

gary
04-15-2011, 11:26 AM
When you are 30yrs old and what about 4-5yrs left in your tank and an offer from Texans is about a half mil higher per year, wouldn't you seriously consider moving to Houston where his home is much more closer? It is solely depends on contract structure but if everything is same and only difference is the amount you get paid for. I would strongly consider moving to Houston. Because, the difference in total come to 2-2.5mil in 4-5yrs span and no state tax. The difference is bigger the better but key is not to over pay but enough to persuade the guy to move.

Go Texans!!!Here is the thing if you are Taylor and you are on a team which is filled with very rich history then you should probably get the deal you want and then just resign. Winning is also very ciritcial and that would rather be on a winner then just being closer to home and making a lot of money. If you are making millions of dollars and saving your money correctly and you are on a winning team to boot then you probably just want to stay put and not move.

HoustonFrog
04-15-2011, 11:32 AM
No argument here. My point was that some on here would consider signing Ike a "Big Move", when I see it as a relatively "small splash". I would never classify it as a big, bold move to get better.

That was my point too. Ike Taylor to me is a slightly better version of Reeves. Both had their moments in their scheme but there were/are knocks on them. I did this same warning on Reeves because I watched him play alot. They may improve the talent level but it doesn't mean that the system or Team D then improves greatly. I don't think it is negative to point these things out or to say that this is how the FA signings in the past have panned. If you think about it Antonio Smith was a name out there because of his playoff push but overall he wasn't a top guy in any regular season time he got. I like him but it isn't a top signing to me. It is a piece.

SAMURAITEXAN
04-15-2011, 11:34 AM
Here is the thing if you are Taylor and you are on a team which is filled with very rich history then you should probably get the deal you want and then just resign. Winning is also very ciritcial and that would rather be on a winner then just being closer to home and making a lot of money. If you are making millions of dollars and saving your money correctly and you are on a winning team to boot then you probably just want to stay put and not move.

Gary, I understand what your saying. Like I said if I was in his shoes, I would strongly consider to move. Because, Taylor may be 4-5 years away from retirement. If he was a few years younger, I can see him staying. But soon or later, you have to think about your life after football and I thought he might be in that age range.

Go Texans!!!

gary
04-15-2011, 11:42 AM
Gary, I understand what your saying. Like I said if I was in his shoes, I would strongly consider to move. Because, Taylor may be 4-5 years away from retirement. If he was a few years younger, I can see him staying. But soon or later, you have to think about after football and I thought he might be in that age range.

Go Texans!!!I am sure Ike has thought about after football and he does so through out the offseason I am sure he has his family helping him out with his future already.

CloakNNNdagger
04-15-2011, 11:44 AM
We're not exactly in a position of strength, bargaining-wise.

It all has to do with our pitiful history. And most of this has nothing to do with "bad luck," and more to do with the fact that the FO was convinced that they could sell FA's on the "Well, FIRST and FOREMOST, we've got a great owner and a grade AAA excercise facility."

CloakNNNdagger
04-15-2011, 11:52 AM
A little insight into this young man's family history and character. (a 2009 article)

Pittsburgh Steelers' Ike Taylor returns to where the hard work started (http://blog.nola.com/tpsports/2009/06/pittsburgh_steelers_ike_taylor.html)
Published: Friday, June 26, 2009, 8:23 PM Updated: Friday, June 26, 2009, 8:28 PM
By Phil Wehrle The Times-Picayune

Many nights, when Ike Taylor was living with his Uncle Herman and Aunt Judy in Harvey, he would rouse from the sound of Herman going to work.

His uncle woke up before daylight to clean buildings for the family janitorial business -- which the couple still runs today.

"He taught me a lot about hard work, " Taylor said before heading into a gym to run his fifth annual Face Me Ike youth camp at Arden Cahill Academy in Gretna on Friday. "He woke up 2 or 3 every morning. I didn't know what was going on then, but I did know he worked hard, and I would, too."

There are more luxuries today thanks to Taylor's success at cornerback for the world champion Pittsburgh Steelers. He took his family and friends out to a local upscale steakhouse Thursday evening, and even his uncle slept in Friday morning -- sort of.

"I got up at 4 a.m. this morning, " Herman said. "I had a lot of work to do, and I have to go to work after this (camp)."

Taylor said it's that background that helped propel him through the rigors of walking on at Louisiana-Lafayette and then through the NFL to win a starting position in 2005. Taylor, who prepped at Abramson, had 63 tackles and one interception last season.

"My mom (Cora) worked so hard, too, " Taylor said. "It's more my family and their hard work that have been a backbone for me."

Herman said Taylor would fill in for him on nights he couldn't work, and he made sure Taylor wouldn't be a stranger to sweat.

"If I had to get up early and get to work, he was going to work, too, stripping floors, cleaning, whatever, " Herman said.

As the kids filed in through the stormy Friday afternoon weather, Taylor stood by his uncle, who would point out whose family this child is from and whose son that child is.

Taylor said he gets a kick out of seeing the same kids return year after year, and spotting new faces in the bunch.

"You see them grow up year to year, " Taylor said. "They really enjoy it, and it's all for them. Everybody here is my family, this is my home though I live in Orlando (Fla.) now."

It isn't until one of the campers asks questions about the NFL or wants to see his rings that he realizes how far he's come in his career.

"That's the only time I think about it, " Taylor said.

On Friday, Taylor was excited to show off the latest hardware -- his newly issued 2009 Super Bowl ring.

"It's beautiful, " Herman said. "It's big, almost too heavy."

Some of Taylor's teammates and NFL friends also were in attendance, showing kids how to shuffle or lift knees high on speed drills. James Farrior, captain of the Steelers' defense, was a big hit with the kids, goofing it up during dull moments and chatting with the little ones. This is one of about six camps Farrior does during the summer.

Former Brother Martin football coach Jay Pittman and several of his players ran the drills Friday, something that is a pleasure, Pittman said.

"Ike's been coming down for five years and doing this, " Pittman said. "We've got to give back to these youngsters, too. What Ike does is show these kids that anything is possible, with him you're going to get that message across."

SAMURAITEXAN
04-15-2011, 11:56 AM
I am sure Ike has thought about after football and he does so through out the offseason I am sure he has his family helping him out with his future already.

I ain't football player so I don't know how they value things. But for a normal business man, you would be surprise to find there are many people change jobs when they hit in the fifties for better opportunity(mostly for money). People want some assurance for better living after retirement.

Ole Miss Texan
04-15-2011, 11:58 AM
If we were to sign him, It's my opinion he'd probably be the best free agent we've ever landed. No Ike Taylor isn't an elite CB, but he's pretty damn good. Antonio Smith was just brought up and honestly I think he and Taylor are fairly similar at their respective positions - I think that's a good comparison.

We all want Nnamdi, I'd say the hell with it and make him a Texan if I were the owner - but that's not reality. The way I see it is that Taylor is actually a very viable option for us and fits with Smith/Kubiak/McNair look for in a FA. His style of play fits this team, he's not a trouble maker, he's a team player. He's going to be like a Smith signing. Not the best at his position but arguably the 2nd or 3rd best that was available. A decent sized contract and will play a huge role on this team, and will play every single snap (barring injury and short short break).

gary
04-15-2011, 12:14 PM
I ain't football player so I don't know how they value things. But for a normal business man, you would be surprise to find there are many people change jobs when they hit in the fifties for better opportunity(mostly for money). People want some assurance for better living after retirement.I think he can still plan while playing for a good team.

SAMURAITEXAN
04-15-2011, 12:27 PM
I think he can still plan while playing for a good team.

From Doc's posted article, he may be the kind of people you are talking about. I am just saying that there are some people move for other reasons.

gary
04-15-2011, 12:32 PM
From Doc's posted article, he may be the kind of people you are talking about. I am just saying that there are some people move for other reasons.
We will see what happens soon enough or maybe not soon enough for some. Who knows?

SAMURAITEXAN
04-15-2011, 12:36 PM
We will see what happens soon enough or maybe not soon enough for some. Who knows?

Hopefully soon, before draft so that we will be able to look into FA market. We need to find veterans to fill our needs.

Go Texans!!!

Hottoddie
04-15-2011, 12:40 PM
I'm going to play the devil's advocate for a moment. :stirpot:

Everyone (including me) wants us to go out & sign the best CB (Aso) available in free agency, no matter what it costs. However, that's the emotional fan speaking & not the way you run a business. For the price it's most likely going to cost to get one of the top 2-3 CB free agents, we could sign the top 2 safeties.

With the release of Pollard & Wilson we are in need of a starting FS & SS. Why not put the same amount of money we're wanting to spend on a single CB into a proven starting FS & SS like Eric Weddle (FS) & Dawan Landry (SS)? We could even consider Daniel Manning at SS due to his flexibility to play the KR postion. According to WalterFootball, Weddle might be the 3rd best safety in the league. All 3 players are young (26, 28 & 29 years old), talented & would almost immediately make our current CB's look much better. Add to that the expected improvement in our front seven's aggresiveness under Wade & our young CB's should show a remarkable improvement next year.

With the 11th pick we should be able to land an instant starter at OLB (Quinn, Smith, Kerrigan), D'line (Watt, Jordan, Bowers, Fairley) or CB (Amukamara, Jimmy Smith). Common sense says take the 2 for 1 deal.

gary
04-15-2011, 12:42 PM
Hopefully soon, before draft so that we will be able to look into FA market. We need to find veterans to fill our needs.

Go Texans!!!
I agree.

El Tejano
04-15-2011, 02:58 PM
As a Steelers fan between when we lost the Oilers and when the Texans came I still keep up with them and Ike would be a good pickup.

30 is not that old of an age but he is obviously a vet and has played on a winning team his whole career. I will take someone who can cover, which he can, over someone who makes a few more INT's.

You must not've been a REAL Oiler fan. That's straight blasphemy! :aggressive:

CloakNNNdagger
04-15-2011, 05:18 PM
From McClain's blog (http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2011/04/were_heading_down_home_stretch.html)

One more thing: Many of you write wanting to know who the Texans bring in before the draft. Most teams bring in the top prospects. The Texans don't. They visit their top prospects if they think it's necessary. Their philosophy on who to bring in involves players not at the combine or players they might want a second look at after their pro day.

Here are the players the Texans have brought in: Dontavia Bogan, WR, South Florida; Antareis Bryan, CB, Baylor; Chris Culliver, CB, South Carolina; Anthony Elzy, RB, North Carolina; Korey Lindsey, CB, Southern Illinois and
Raymond Webber, WR, Arkansas Pine-Bluff.

Rey
04-15-2011, 08:36 PM
If we were to sign him, It's my opinion he'd probably be the best free agent we've ever landed. No Ike Taylor isn't an elite CB, but he's pretty damn good. Antonio Smith was just brought up and honestly I think he and Taylor are fairly similar at their respective positions - I think that's a good comparison.

We all want Nnamdi, I'd say the hell with it and make him a Texan if I were the owner - but that's not reality. The way I see it is that Taylor is actually a very viable option for us and fits with Smith/Kubiak/McNair look for in a FA. His style of play fits this team, he's not a trouble maker, he's a team player. He's going to be like a Smith signing. Not the best at his position but arguably the 2nd or 3rd best that was available. A decent sized contract and will play a huge role on this team, and will play every single snap (barring injury and short short break).

Honestly, I think Ike Taylor is better at his position than Antonio Smith is at his...That's not a knock on Antonio, I just think that Ike is a really good player...

If we aren't going to go after a Nmamdi then I'd love to have a guy like Ike...

Rey
04-15-2011, 08:38 PM
From McClain's blog (http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2011/04/were_heading_down_home_stretch.html)


Seems as if they have been looking at quite a few CB's and WR's....

CloakNNNdagger
04-15-2011, 09:05 PM
Seems as if they have been looking at quite a few CB's and WR's....

........and they are still looking for "nuggets" from small schools........

Texan_Bill
04-15-2011, 09:06 PM
Interesting, but I think it'll have a lot to do with what the Steelers do in the draft too. Last I heard, the Steelers wanted him back. If that's the case, most players would rather stay with a winner. Unless of course the Texans pay out the nose for him.

This is not true!!

Respectfully,
Rosevelt Colvin

Lucky
04-15-2011, 09:20 PM
From McClain's blog (http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2011/04/were_heading_down_home_stretch.html)

From a McClain reply to a reader's comment:

John,

Looking forward to all the draft coverage.

Regarding the comment of "They visit their top prospects if they think it's necessary."

Have you heard of any vists made to show interest in any of the first round defensive talents? Specifically I think Aldon Smith is the most impactful player we have a chance at getting at 11. I also wouldn't mind trading down if that meant we could get the NT from Baylor and then target Brooks Reed in the 2nd.

Nothing against Prince but I hope we can pick up a veteran CB in free agency and then a 3rd rounder to challenge Kareem on the other side.

{Chris, I don't know who they've checked out in person, but I know they won't be drafting the Baylor nose tackle, Phil Taylor. -- JOHN}
He doesn't know whom the Texans have checked out in person? Either he's lying and won't say or he's completely incompetent as a reporter.

Geez, it would be so sweet if the Texans somehow come up with Phil Taylor.

nytexan
04-15-2011, 11:22 PM
From a McClain reply to a reader's comment:

He doesn't know whom the Texans have checked out in person? Either he's lying and won't say or he's completely incompetent as a reporter.

Geez, it would be so sweet if the Texans somehow come up with Phil Taylor.

To be fair, he also said this in the same blog

"One more thing: Many of you write wanting to know who the Texans bring in before the draft. Most teams bring in the top prospects. The Texans don't. They visit their top prospects if they think it's necessary. Their philosophy on who to bring in involves players not at the combine or players they might want a second look at after their pro day.

Here are the players the Texans have brought in: Dontavia Bogan, WR, South Florida; Antareis Bryan, CB, Baylor; Chris Culliver, CB, South Carolina;
Anthony Elzy, RB, North Carolina; Korey Lindsey, CB, Southern Illinois and
Raymond Webber, WR, Arkansas Pine-Bluff."

I'm all for disagreement with everyone and anyone but tone down the hate please. He was answering a question concerning the top prospects. I'm sure the Texans as well as other organizations keep as much quiet as possible.

Lucky
04-16-2011, 12:38 AM
I'm all for disagreement with everyone and anyone but tone down the hate please.
I've read John McClain's tripe for close to 30 years. He was a crap reporter, then. He's a crap reporter, now. Every other football city in America gets better coverage than Houston receives. The best information out of the Texans comes from an amatuer blogger (Texans_Chick, aka Stephanie Stradley) and a radio host/blogger (Lance Zierlein).

In no way am I knocking their efforts. They are extremely appreciated. But, it shouldn't be like that. It's not like that in NYC, Boston, or Chicago. The print journalists there cover the team. They break news and uncover information for their readers. John McClain reads the Texans press releases. We deserve better. And if calling it like it is is considered hateful, then I guess I am a hater. Sorry.

SteveSlaton20
04-16-2011, 02:44 AM
If we're gonna get a CB in the FA, we need to go after
1. Aso
2. Champ Bailey
3a. Jonathan Joseph
3b. Brent Grimes
5. Ronde Barber
6. Antonio Cromartie
7. Ike Taylor
8. Brandon Carr
9. Carlos Rogers

Would be nice to go after Melvin Bullitt too for FS

Surreal McCoy
04-16-2011, 05:17 AM
Nah really. Just an observation this is all so predictable.

We have to get a veteran CB (or whatever).

Yay, we signed Ike Taylor.

The Texans paid too much.

[Texans have an underwhelming season]

Next off-season.

Ike was overrated to begin with and the Texans were stupid for getting such an old CB.

The Texans never do anything in free agency.

McNair is cheap.

I literally LOLed at this. Well done ;)

CloakNNNdagger
04-16-2011, 07:28 AM
If we're gonna get a CB in the FA, we need to go after
1. Aso
2. Champ Bailey
3a. Jonathan Joseph
3b. Brent Grimes
5. Ronde Barber
6. Antonio Cromartie
7. Ike Taylor
8. Brandon Carr
9. Carlos Rogers

Would be nice to go after Melvin Bullitt too for FS

If you read previous posts in this thread, you will see that Bailey and Barber needs to be off of your list (already signed).

CloakNNNdagger
04-16-2011, 08:06 AM
I've read John McClain's tripe for close to 30 years. He was a crap reporter, then. He's a crap reporter, now. Every other football city in America gets better coverage than Houston receives. The best information out of the Texans comes from an amatuer blogger (Texans_Chick, aka Stephanie Stradley) and a radio host/blogger (Lance Zierlein).

In no way am I knocking their efforts. They are extremely appreciated. But, it shouldn't be like that. It's not like that in NYC, Boston, or Chicago. The print journalists there cover the team. They break news and uncover information for their readers. John McClain reads the Texans press releases. We deserve better. And if calling it like it is is considered hateful, then I guess I am a hater. Sorry.


To re-inforce your comments, what does McClain in his most recent article bring to the table.............that we didn't already know?


Crankin' it up at 11
Following a 6-10 season, the Texans have plenty of room for improvement, especially on defense. Here's a look at how the team might use its first pick (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7524360.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+houstonchronicle%2Fspfbtxfron t+%28HoustonChronicle.com+--+Houston+Texans+Football%29#finalframe)

By JOHN McCLAIN
Copyright 2011 Houston Chronicle
April 15, 2011, 11:44PM

One of the biggest surprises of the first round of the NFL draft would be for the Texans to use the 11th pick on an offensive player. The team is coming off a disappointing 6-10 season, and the root of the problem was a defense that blew five games and finished 30th overall, including 32nd against the pass.

To make matters worse, the Texans ranked 29th in points allowed with 427.

The defensive makeover began with the firing of coordinator Frank Bush and the hiring of his replacement, Wade Phillips.

Now it's up to general manager Rick Smith and coach Gary Kubiak to use the draft to improve the team, particularly its defense, on April 28-30.

"It doesn't get any better than this," Smith said of preparing for the draft. "(The draft is) the most impact I can make on our team short term and long term."

Smith and his staff of scouts have been working for months on their draft board. The coaches also are involved in an evaluation process that's heading down the homestretch.

"We want to make sure we get everyone evaluated the right way," said Smith, who's overseeing his fifth draft with the Texans. "We've had the scouts in the office tweaking our board, then we met with our coaches.

"I want to know how the scouts and coaches have the players stacked. That way, when it comes time to make the decision, I'll be clear about how each scout and coach feels about the individual players."

Trade a possibility

Expect Smith to talk with other teams about trading up. Texas A&M outside linebacker Von Miller would fill the Texans' biggest need, but they likely would have to move into the second spot to guarantee getting him. If the price is too high, Smith won't do it. He has been inclined to trade down in the past.

Nobody will be surprised if the Texans select a defensive player. They need an outside linebacker to play opposite Connor Barwin. They need a cornerback. Last season's starting safeties, Bernard Pollard and Eugene Wilson, won't return.

In six of their last seven drafts, the Texans have taken a defensive player with their first pick.

Since Kubiak became head coach in 2006 and defensive end Mario Williams was the No. 1 overall pick, each of the team's first-rounders became an immediate starter and started at least 14 games as a rookie.

In Kubiak's five drafts, the only offensive player taken in the first round was left tackle Duane Brown in 2008.

The Texans have eight draft choices, including the last one Mr. Irrelevant.

Added incentive

Free agency won't begin until the lockout ends, and since nobody knows when that might happen, teams have to try to fill their needs in the draft.

"We want to get eight good players," Kubiak said. "There's a whole new light shining on the draft. Obviously, it looks like the draft will be before free agency, so it makes this draft different from that standpoint.

"We've got a change in scheme on defense. We're trying to rebuild the defense with Wade's scheme. That's a big priority."

If the Texans stay at No. 11 and go for an outside linebacker, North Carolina defensive end Robert Quinn and Missouri defensive end Aldon Smith - both underclassmen - could be candidates. They have the ability to make the transition to outside linebacker in a 3-4.

If the Texans seek a cornerback, the second-best prospect is Nebraska's Prince Amukamara, who might be available.

A lot of fans want the Texans to bypass defense and take Alabama receiver Julio Jones if he's available.

"We want to get more explosive on offense," Kubiak said. "To go into this draft thinking we're OK offensively would be a big mistake. We've got some players who could be (free agents)."

If free agency is like last season, players must be six-year veterans to be unrestricted. That means quarterback Matt Leinart, offensive tackle Rashad Butler and receiver Jacoby Jones would return.

Special note

When a new collective bargaining agreement is signed, free agency likely will return to four years. That means the Texans could lose Leinart, Butler and Jones.

One offshoot of selecting eight players is improving special teams. The Texans' were terrible on kick returns last season.

"We didn't affect games on special teams," Kubiak said. "A lot of our key special-teams players became starters.

"We'll be linebacker-heavy (because of the 3-4), and that should help special teams."

Norg
04-17-2011, 12:34 PM
i say we get Prince Amukamara, CB and build are own Shutdown corner

houstonspartan
04-17-2011, 05:24 PM
The funny thing is just about everyone would endorse signing Ike Taylor this off-season but a year or two from now he won't count as a significant free agent signing if/when we have that discussion again.

Fair point. There's a guy on the team named Matt Schaub that everybody was after, and the Texans aggressively signed him over a weekend. We sometimes forget that.

GP
04-17-2011, 08:03 PM
Fair point. There's a guy on the team named Matt Schaub that everybody was after, and the Texans aggressively signed him over a weekend. We sometimes forget that.

That was eerily juuuuust before the Mike Vick thing became big news.

We "went after" a team's second string QB (sort of their version of Sage R.) before the Mike Vick thing broke the news wire. Had we waited a little longer, there's no way we get Matt Schaub.

Therefore, by the pure luck of it all...we got a 2nd string QB and Arthur Blank thought he had moved a 2nd string QB for TWO 2nd round picks--A nice move at the time, then the Mike Vick thing happened and WHAMMO! it wasn't lookin' so good when the fit hit the shan there in Atlanta. Luckily for Arthur, he got Matt Ryan and a better head coach and did OK without Schaub.

All this is to say that we shouldn't inflate the Schaub signing. The Falcons, considering that the Vick thing had not surfaced at that time of the Schaub acquisition by the Texans, were moving a second string QB for a nice payday of two straight 2nd round picks.

We didn't necessarily nab a "hot commodity" at the time--I fail to see where there had been three or four other teams in a bidding war for Matt Schaub with us. We were taking a risk on a guy that Kubiak felt had the potential. That's a big difference, IMO, and I'm not just saying this to be argumentative either. This example doesn't fit.

CloakNNNdagger
04-17-2011, 09:05 PM
That was eerily juuuuust before the Mike Vick thing became big news.

We "went after" a team's second string QB (sort of their version of Sage R.) before the Mike Vick thing broke the news wire. Had we waited a little longer, there's no way we get Matt Schaub.

Therefore, by the pure luck of it all...we got a 2nd string QB and Arthur Blank thought he had moved a 2nd string QB for TWO 2nd round picks--A nice move at the time, then the Mike Vick thing happened and WHAMMO! it wasn't lookin' so good when the fit hit the shan there in Atlanta. Luckily for Arthur, he got Matt Ryan and a better head coach and did OK without Schaub.

All this is to say that we shouldn't inflate the Schaub signing. The Falcons, considering that the Vick thing had not surfaced at that time of the Schaub acquisition by the Texans, were moving a second string QB for a nice payday of two straight 2nd round picks.

We didn't necessarily nab a "hot commodity" at the time--I fail to see where there had been three or four other teams in a bidding war for Matt Schaub with us. We were taking a risk on a guy that Kubiak felt had the potential. That's a big difference, IMO, and I'm not just saying this to be argumentative either. This example doesn't fit.


People quickly forget that Schaub was going on the open market pretty soon, and the Falcons could have gotten nothing, especially since the Texans were essentially bidding against themselves. They were thrilled with this unbelievably generous deal. Vick was exciting, but wasn't exactly the most reliable or productive QB around at the time. Among other things, Vick had at the time become a repeated public embarrassment, flipping off the fans, his Ron Mexico escapade, or whatever you call it, and then the infamous water bottle mystery. And the option, even if they wanted to take it, was not to get rid of Vick with his $70 million anchor he had tied around Blank's neck.

GP
04-17-2011, 09:12 PM
...and the Falcons could have gotten nothing, especially since the Texans were essentially bidding against themselves. They [the Falcons] were thrilled with this unbelievably generous deal.

Well, Bob McNair IS a gentleman, after all.

He's in the business of being generous to everyone he comes into contact with. Gotta' make friends and be a pal to those inside the NFL circle of trust; show 'em that the Texans are citizens in good standing. Then it all pays off, and one day your fellow owners are patting your back and telling you how they were rooting for you in that Ravens overtime game at Reliant.

It's like Bob thinks the NFL is some freakin' Sunday ice cream social where we all sit on the porch and drink sweet tea and fan ourselves from the heat of the day. LOL.

Bob continually finds himself scrambling for what he needs because he held onto what he had for too damn long.

Patterns, I'm tellin' ya. Patterns.

Rey
04-17-2011, 10:41 PM
Nah really. Just an observation this is all so predictable.

We have to get a veteran CB (or whatever).

Yay, we signed Ike Taylor.

The Texans paid too much.

[Texans have an underwhelming season]

Next off-season.

Ike was overrated to begin with and the Texans were stupid for getting such an old CB.

The Texans never do anything in free agency.

McNair is cheap.

So you too are predicting an underwhelming season from the Texans....:kitten:

:fans:

infantrycak
04-18-2011, 09:54 AM
That was eerily juuuuust before the Mike Vick thing became big news.

We "went after" a team's second string QB (sort of their version of Sage R.) before the Mike Vick thing broke the news wire. Had we waited a little longer, there's no way we get Matt Schaub.

Therefore, by the pure luck of it all...we got a 2nd string QB and Arthur Blank thought he had moved a 2nd string QB for TWO 2nd round picks--A nice move at the time, then the Mike Vick thing happened and WHAMMO! it wasn't lookin' so good when the fit hit the shan there in Atlanta. Luckily for Arthur, he got Matt Ryan and a better head coach and did OK without Schaub.

All this is to say that we shouldn't inflate the Schaub signing. The Falcons, considering that the Vick thing had not surfaced at that time of the Schaub acquisition by the Texans, were moving a second string QB for a nice payday of two straight 2nd round picks.

We didn't necessarily nab a "hot commodity" at the time--I fail to see where there had been three or four other teams in a bidding war for Matt Schaub with us. We were taking a risk on a guy that Kubiak felt had the potential. That's a big difference, IMO, and I'm not just saying this to be argumentative either. This example doesn't fit.

Wow, nice way to recreate history to put down the Texans. Schaub was a hot commodity. He had been high RFA tendered. The year prior there were reports two different teams had offered 1st round draft picks for him and the Falcons refused. And while the dog thing hadn't broken Vick was on uncertain ground. Many fans were calling for Schaub to start over Vick and there were reports Blank dealt Schaub in part to end the controversy. And Sage and Schaub shouldn't be compared. Not all 2nd string QB's are equal. A better comparison would be Vick's backup right now, Kevin Kolb who there is also a market for.

disaacks3
04-18-2011, 10:09 AM
i say we get Prince Amukamara, CB and build are own Shutdown corner Only if he gets better than he was in college. Against two top receivers...he got SCHOOLED. In the first round, the only CB worth it is Petersen.

Texecutioner
04-18-2011, 10:27 AM
The funny thing is just about everyone would endorse signing Ike Taylor this off-season but a year or two from now he won't count as a significant free agent signing if/when we have that discussion again.

That's because Taylor wouldn't be one.

HoustonFrog
04-18-2011, 11:12 AM
I've read John McClain's tripe for close to 30 years. He was a crap reporter, then. He's a crap reporter, now. Every other football city in America gets better coverage than Houston receives. The best information out of the Texans comes from an amatuer blogger (Texans_Chick, aka Stephanie Stradley) and a radio host/blogger (Lance Zierlein).

In no way am I knocking their efforts. They are extremely appreciated. But, it shouldn't be like that. It's not like that in NYC, Boston, or Chicago. The print journalists there cover the team. They break news and uncover information for their readers. John McClain reads the Texans press releases. We deserve better. And if calling it like it is is considered hateful, then I guess I am a hater. Sorry.

So dead on. I bring it up all the time but a perfect example is a few years back when Smith was still running the D. McClain was told by someone early in the season that the Texans couldn't blitz because of their personnel. People would call in and try and discuss scheme, etc where blitzes might work and he just kept repeating this over and over like a tape recorder....even to the point of being surly. Finally near the end of the year they started blitzing and when it worked to some extent he just went silent. He has no practical football knowledge and no real source. He just seems like a bitter guy out of the loop now who can spin an old yarn from the Oiler days.

steelbtexan
04-18-2011, 11:37 AM
........and they are still looking for "nuggets" from small schools........

Looks like Gary and Rick are looking for their 3rd rd small school guy.

SOS

gary
04-18-2011, 11:40 AM
I just hope they sign someone who does not fall down.

Porky
04-18-2011, 12:06 PM
After drafting the worst CB I have ever seen last year, we're now supposed to suddenly trust this regime? They couldn't evaulate boobs at a topless joint. They would pick size A - for almost. Mcnoob and his organization is a joke.

maddogmrb
04-18-2011, 12:42 PM
Not gonna happen:

A- Too much $$$.
B- He's still got game!
C- He's healthy!
D- He's not a TE.
E- No Colorado connection.

Tailgate
04-18-2011, 02:33 PM
After drafting the worst CB I have ever seen last year, we're now supposed to suddenly trust this regime? They couldn't evaulate boobs at a topless joint. They would pick size A - for almost. Mcnoob and his organization is a joke.

I really have no qualms about the offensive decisions this regime has made. And when it comes to the D, now its up to what Wade and his staff wants. Not much to go off of other than Wades defensive drafting history. Which I dont know much about.

Texecutioner
04-18-2011, 03:34 PM
I really have no qualms about the offensive decisions this regime has made. And when it comes to the D, now its up to what Wade and his staff wants. Not much to go off of other than Wades defensive drafting history. Which I dont know much about.

INteresting.

so you had no qualms with the fact that Kubiak felt like he could win with Carr and wanted to keep him for a year?

You had no qualms with Kubes thinking that Lundi was the answer to our running game?

You had no qualms wiyh Kubes thinking that Green was the answer to our running game?

You had no qualms with Kubes thinking that Taylor was the answer to our running game?

You had no qualms with Kubes thinking that Chris Brown was the answer to our running game?

You had no qualms with Kubes using Brown in crucial situations at the end of games after he had shown nothing for a year and half and trusting him to close out games?


Really???

CloakNNNdagger
04-18-2011, 04:07 PM
Just a thought inspired by Pat Kirwan of NFL.com .


The Texans needed a cornerback in 2004 and Robinson was a good player, but, for whatever reason, the FO didn't want to pay him when his rookie contract was up. He was drafted at #10. Imagine if they had just drafted Schaub (the Falcon's 90th pick in the 2004 draft) instead of trading two second-round picks for him and switching spots with the Falcons in the first round in 2007. The Falcons got better as a team with that compensation package. If only Houston had those picks ... and Schaub.:thinking:

gary
04-18-2011, 04:22 PM
Just a thought inspired by Pat Kirwan of NFL.com .


The Texans needed a cornerback in 2004 and Robinson was a good player, but, for whatever reason, the FO didn't want to pay him when his rookie contract was up. He was drafted at #10. Imagine if they had just drafted Schaub (the Falcon's 90th pick in the 2004 draft) instead of trading two second-round picks for him and switching spots with the Falcons in the first round in 2007. The Falcons got better as a team with that compensation package. If only Houston had those picks ... and Schaub.:thinking:How bright is this? Whatever reason, huh? People need to get off the Robinson bandwagon already.

Tailgate
04-18-2011, 04:24 PM
INteresting.

so you had no qualms with the fact that Kubiak felt like he could win with Carr and wanted to keep him for a year? We can debate all day on whether that was McNair or Kubiak that truly wanted to keep Carr. And what does it matter? He was gone after 1 year and this regime brought us our current starting QB. Any qualms there?

You had no qualms with Kubes thinking that Lundi was the answer to our running game? I dont remember anyone saying this 6th rounder was the answer to all of our problems at RB. Hes a sixth rounder for crying outloud, whats there to be upset about?

You had no qualms wiyh Kubes thinking that Green was the answer to our running game? No qualms with bringing Green in, he just came off a 1,000 yard season and was always a stop gap solution, NOT the answer. Do you have qualms with our current RB situation that this regime has put together?

You had no qualms with Kubes thinking that Taylor was the answer to our running game? Who? And who said that he was the answer? And what did we give up for him? Nothing. No qualms at all.

You had no qualms with Kubes thinking that Chris Brown was the answer to our running game? Another stop gap solution to our current RB situation. Any qualms with our current RB stock? I sure as heck would not change it.

You had no qualms with Kubes using Brown in crucial situations at the end of games after he had shown nothing for a year and half and trusting him to close out games? Brown was very solid for us for years. It was only in 2009 he had a melt down, and NOBODY could have saw it coming. Insert NEW KICKER 2010. No qualms
Really???

Your whole argument was basically based around the RB situation which is all but fixed and then some, and we havent even really seen Ben Tate yet. Are they supposed to bat 100% in everything? Because these are really reaching. Especially considering the fact that we currently have one of the top offenses in the NFL.

Do you have qualms with Matt Schaub, Kevin Walter, Derrick Ward, Owen Daniels, Arian Foster, our ENTIRE offensive line, etc,etc...

The only real issues I have with them is in regards to back up QB, and the fact that Jacoby Jones hasn't panned out as hoped. But again, you cant win every single one of em. This offense has been very well put together. Not sure what there really is to debate in regards to personell here.

Hottoddie
04-18-2011, 04:57 PM
Can we start the draft this week instead of next week? All the whining around here is driving me :wacko:.

Ole Miss Texan
04-18-2011, 05:16 PM
Just a thought inspired by Pat Kirwan of NFL.com .

The Texans needed a cornerback in 2004 and Robinson was a good player, but, for whatever reason, the FO didn't want to pay him when his rookie contract was up. He was drafted at #10. Imagine if they had just drafted Schaub (the Falcon's 90th pick in the 2004 draft) instead of trading two second-round picks for him and switching spots with the Falcons in the first round in 2007. The Falcons got better as a team with that compensation package. If only Houston had those picks ... and Schaub.:thinking:
That is just some terrible reasoning by Kirwan and you can do that with EVERY SINGLE team. I guess Bill Bilichick and the Patriots are dumb*sses for not drafting Arian Foster in the 7th round? come on now.


Your whole argument was basically based around the RB situation which is all but fixed and then some, and we havent even really seen Ben Tate yet. Are they supposed to bat 100% in everything? Because these are really reaching. Especially considering the fact that we currently have one of the top offenses in the NFL.

Do you have qualms with Matt Schaub, Kevin Walter, Derrick Ward, Owen Daniels, Arian Foster, our ENTIRE offensive line, etc,etc...

The only real issues I have with them is in regards to back up QB, and the fact that Jacoby Jones hasn't panned out as hoped. But again, you cant win every single one of em. This offense has been very well put together. Not sure what there really is to debate in regards to personell here.
Agreed tailgate. I know people are upset with Kubiak and don't want him to be the coach. Its easy to point out some of the misses but its very very hard for some to acknowledge the good. Developing Foster, Schaub, Owen Daniels, the OL improvement...

CloakNNNdagger
04-18-2011, 06:57 PM
That is just some terrible reasoning by Kirwan and you can do that with EVERY SINGLE team. I guess Bill Bilichick and the Patriots are dumb*sses for not drafting Arian Foster in the 7th round? come on now.

I understand your point. But Bilichick didn't end up with Foster. He didn't end up paying through the nose after initially bypassing him.

thunderkyss
04-18-2011, 10:15 PM
The funny thing is just about everyone would endorse signing Ike Taylor this off-season but a year or two from now he won't count as a significant free agent signing if/when we have that discussion again.

Sounds like you're talking from experience.

Little Deja Vu maybe?

Just imagine if we did something like sign him to a contract worth basically double the Sheldon Brown contract.

thunderkyss
04-18-2011, 10:22 PM
Don't get crazy.

If and when freen agancy hits, it will be crazy. Some teams will not find a seat when the game of cornerback chairs ends. The Texans should be considering every vet CB available. From Aso, down to Taylor. If not Aso, I would prefer Joseph or Cromartie. But, beggars are rarely choosers.

If we don't get Aso, I want the Texans to do something crazy, like hedge their bets & sign two of the remaining players.

Grimes & Taylor.

Cromartie & Joseph.

Joseph & Taylor.

But that's crazy.

The Pencil Neck
04-18-2011, 10:30 PM
INteresting.

so you had no qualms with the fact that Kubiak felt like he could win with Carr and wanted to keep him for a year?

You had no qualms with Kubes thinking that Lundi was the answer to our running game?

You had no qualms wiyh Kubes thinking that Green was the answer to our running game?

You had no qualms with Kubes thinking that Taylor was the answer to our running game?

You had no qualms with Kubes thinking that Chris Brown was the answer to our running game?

You had no qualms with Kubes using Brown in crucial situations at the end of games after he had shown nothing for a year and half and trusting him to close out games?


Really???

The thing I've got qualms about is you thinking that you knew what Kubes was thinking. There are several things on here that I don't think Kubiak ever thought.

Ole Miss Texan
04-19-2011, 08:42 AM
I understand your point. But Bilichick didn't end up with Foster. He didn't end up paying through the nose after initially bypassing him.

I hear what you're saying. I still think Kirwan is tarded in his reasoning. No sh*t that would be better! We're talking about a draft that was 3 years earlier though. Plus there was a coaching change. Who knows if Kubiak was the HC during 2004 he very well could have drafted Schaub in the 3rd round. Oh wait.... we didn't have our 3rd because we had already traded up for Jason Babin! :kubepalm:

Texecutioner
04-19-2011, 08:42 AM
The thing I've got qualms about is you thinking that you knew what Kubes was thinking. There are several things on here that I don't think Kubiak ever thought.

Well I really don't care what your qualms are with what I know from what Kubiak stated himself over the years and with what he tried to pull off. I don't have to justify what I think of what Kubes thought to you either. This is history and these are things he said and things he tried in games and he failed plenty. But we can all sit back and act like we're not headed in year 6 with a losing HC and act like we've got all these great reasons to optimistic at Reliant theme park. I hear the Kool Aid is great.

Texecutioner
04-19-2011, 08:47 AM
Your whole argument was basically based around the RB situation which is all but fixed and then some, and we havent even really seen Ben Tate yet. Are they supposed to bat 100% in everything? Because these are really reaching. Especially considering the fact that we currently have one of the top offenses in the NFL.

Do you have qualms with Matt Schaub, Kevin Walter, Derrick Ward, Owen Daniels, Arian Foster, our ENTIRE offensive line, etc,etc...

The only real issues I have with them is in regards to back up QB, and the fact that Jacoby Jones hasn't panned out as hoped. But again, you cant win every single one of em. This offense has been very well put together. Not sure what there really is to debate in regards to personell here.

It took him 5 years to get our running game straight. Yeah, I've got qualms with that kind of time table. And when Kubiak learns to close out games and have his team ready to finish in crucial moments on offense I'll have less qualms regarding his alleged great offense.

infantrycak
04-19-2011, 09:38 AM
Well I really don't care what your qualms are with what I know from what Kubiak stated himself over the years and with what he tried to pull off. I don't have to justify what I think of what Kubes thought to you either. This is history and these are things he said and things he tried in games and he failed plenty. But we can all sit back and act like we're not headed in year 6 with a losing HC and act like we've got all these great reasons to optimistic at Reliant theme park. I hear the Kool Aid is great.

It isn't history at all.

2006 Lundy was not supposed to be the answer - Dommanik Dais was supposed to be the answer with Dayne and then Lundy providing backup with Taylor as 4th string.

2007 Taylor was not supposed to be the answer and neither he nor Lundy even had a carry - Green was supposed to be the answer with Dayne and Walker as his backups.

2008 Green was supposed to be the answer but it turned out Slaton was with Moats as backup.

2009 Slaton was supposed to be the answer with Moats, Brown and Foster as backups.

It took him 5 years to get our running game straight. Yeah, I've got qualms with that kind of time table. And when Kubiak learns to close out games and have his team ready to finish in crucial moments on offense I'll have less qualms regarding his alleged great offense.

No it took him 3 years to get a running game going, then it regressed, then they rebuilt it even better.

Mr teX
04-19-2011, 09:52 AM
It isn't history at all.

2006 Lundy was not supposed to be the answer - Dommanik Dais was supposed to be the answer with Dayne and then Lundy providing backup with Taylor as 4th string.

2007 Taylor was not supposed to be the answer and neither he nor Lundy even had a carry - Green was supposed to be the answer with Dayne and Walker as his backups.

2008 Green was supposed to be the answer but it turned out Slaton was with Moats as backup.

2009 Slaton was supposed to be the answer with Moats, Brown and Foster as backups.



No it took him 3 years to get a running game going, then it regressed, then they rebuilt it even better.


Don't bother I-cak its a lost cause. Some are so blinded by their hate that it makes them impossible to give this regime credit for anything regardless if its the truth or not.

Ole Miss Texan
04-19-2011, 10:06 AM
It isn't history at all.

2006 Lundy was not supposed to be the answer - Dommanik Dais was supposed to be the answer with Dayne and then Lundy providing backup with Taylor as 4th string.

2007 Taylor was not supposed to be the answer and neither he nor Lundy even had a carry - Green was supposed to be the answer with Dayne and Walker as his backups.

2008 Green was supposed to be the answer but it turned out Slaton was with Moats as backup.

2009 Slaton was supposed to be the answer with Moats, Brown and Foster as backups.



No it took him 3 years to get a running game going, then it regressed, then they rebuilt it even better.
How quickly people forget. Slaton ranked 6th in the league in rushing during 2008 and Foster was 1st during 2010. It sure would have been nice if he found the answer at RB his first or second year and that stayed constant. It's pretty evident though that our Passing game developed extremely quickly.

2006: 27th
2007: 11th
2008: 4th
2009: 1st
2010: 4th

Texecutioner
04-19-2011, 10:07 AM
It isn't history at all.

2006 Lundy was not supposed to be the answer - Dommanik Dais was supposed to be the answer with Dayne and then Lundy providing backup with Taylor as 4th string.

Kubes was very high on Lundi and at that point it was known that Davis wasn't going to be back in any real form that we needed. Lundi was who he gambled with and had confidence in when we had Carr at QB. That had fail written all over it.

2007 Taylor was not supposed to be the answer and neither he nor Lundy even had a carry - Green was supposed to be the answer with Dayne and Walker as his backups.

Taylor was always like Kubiak's special little gem he thought he had. He always talked about pulling his prize stallion in Taylor at some point and what kind of potential he thought he had with him. I remember him having like one or two good games at the end of the season and Kubiak made comments about him possibly being the future where he failed to address the running game. And yeah he brought in Green to be the guy as well. Talk about a pathetic and idiotic move at the time and spare me with the "he was coming off a 1,000 yard season stuff." Green had looked like shit the two years before that and had injuries off and on. He had beaten up written all over him and that's exactly what we got in Green. A beaten up RB.

2008 Green was supposed to be the answer but it turned out Slaton was with Moats as backup.

We've talked about this before, and Kubiak got lucky with Slaton that season. Slaton wasn't supposed to be anything but a 3rd down change of pace guy and he over achieved for the Texans that season. Kubiak still thought that Green was going to be the guy that season though and that really showed what kind of dumb coach he was. Slaton helped to save the embarrassment of Kubes a little that year though.

2009 Slaton was supposed to be the answer with Moats, Brown and Foster as backups.

Oh the famous season where the confettie was thrown for a 9-7 season when the Texans should have been in the playoffs but Kubiak's idiocy couldn't stop him from strutting Chris Brown out there inside the 5 yard line where he literally blew two games for the Texans and then blew another one with that epic INT he let Brown throw in the end zone. That was 3 games blown because Kubiak kept this ridiculous trust in Chris Brown who never did a thing here and was another banged up RB when we got him that KKubes thought was the answer. Kubiak single handily kept the Texans from making the playoffs that season with his unconditional support and loyalty to Chris Brown the RB. Then at the end of the season we he benched Foster because of one fumble like a fool. We lost that game as well if I'm not mistaken. Foster shoudl have been playing all season for us, and you guys like to sweep that one under the rug for some reason. Then we find out how good Foster was in the next two games where he tears it up and everyone's wondering where the hell was this guy all season when we needed a running game?



No it took him 3 years to get a running game going, then it regressed, then they rebuilt it even better.

Slaton saved his ass and but was his last quarter in the slot machine at the time. He proved that he wasn't the answer either though. Foster is the real deal and finally we had a great running game, but lets not forget how bone headed Kubiak was in so many games where he abandoned the running game as well. It's absolutely nuts that people give Kubiak all this credit for finally finding a bonafied stud at RB but it didn't show until season 5 and that same guy sat on the bench all season before that while Chris Brown was ruining games.

Texecutioner
04-19-2011, 10:14 AM
Don't bother I-cak its a lost cause. Some are so blinded by their hate that it makes them impossible to give this regime credit for anything regardless if its the truth or not.

6-10 in year 5 is the only real truth that means anything. All of your sprinkled cup cake stats from an offense that consistently fails in the clutch that people try and pull to put some gloss over the fail that has been Smithiak means nothing. It just means that we're a losing franchise until our owner decides he's committed to winning.

infantrycak
04-19-2011, 11:15 AM
Foster is the real deal and finally we had a great running game, but lets not forget how bone headed Kubiak was in so many games where he abandoned the running game as well.

Not going to go round and round on the other stuff but the above perception doesn't meet reality.

1st half - 161 att, 777 yds, 4.8 ypc, 5 TDs 42 1st downs 28 rec. 213 yds 7.6 ypr 0 TD's 14 1st downs
2nd half - 161 att. 821 yds, 5.1 ypc, 11 TDs 46 1st downs 38 rec. 391 yds 10.3 ypr 2 TD's 20 1st downs

So Foster touched the ball more in the 2nd half of games and did more with those touches this despite us often being substantially behind and needing to score quickly.

Mr teX
04-19-2011, 11:22 AM
6-10 in year 5 is the only real truth that means anything. All of your sprinkled cup cake stats from an offense that consistently fails in the clutch that people try and pull to put some gloss over the fail that has been Smithiak means nothing. It just means that we're a losing franchise until our owner decides he's committed to winning.

Yeah, i keep forgetting your agenda is to strong to really think about thinks in an objective, rational manner lol.

Texecutioner
04-19-2011, 11:25 AM
Yeah, i keep forgetting your agenda is to strong to really think about thinks in an objective, rational manner lol.

Darn right it is. I've said that Smithiak wasn't worth a damn for years now and I've yet to be proven wrong. My opinions have been as objective as one can get on this regime. 37-43 indicates that all of the spin that's occured around here for years on behalf of Smithiak has been a fail. There's some objectivity for you.

Mr teX
04-19-2011, 11:28 AM
Darn right it is. I've said that Smithiak wasn't worth a damn for years now and I've yet to be proven wrong.

But you'll give Morey every excuse in the book...

but but but, there's a lack of superstars in the NBA

but but but, Yao got hurt & T-mac was a Puh-ce

but but but..all these players want to do is create super teams now...

ridiculous..

disaacks3
04-19-2011, 11:31 AM
It isn't history at all.

2006 Lundy was not supposed to be the answer - Dommanik Dais was supposed to be the answer with Dayne and then Lundy providing backup with Taylor as 4th string.

2007 Taylor was not supposed to be the answer and neither he nor Lundy even had a carry - Green was supposed to be the answer with Dayne and Walker as his backups.

2008 Green was supposed to be the answer but it turned out Slaton was with Moats as backup.

2009 Slaton was supposed to be the answer with Moats, Brown and Foster as backups.



No it took him 3 years to get a running game going, then it regressed, then they rebuilt it even better.

My issue is this, if we're going to give him "Credit" for finding a UDFA who led the league in rushing, then he also deserves the criticism for his other moves. You don't get one without the other. I sat in a luncheon where Kubiak told the crowd that Wali Lundy was good-to-go as a starter.

Texecutioner
04-19-2011, 11:39 AM
But you'll give Morey every excuse in the book...

Geez, do you ever get tired of sounding completely foolish with this back and forth garbage of trying to compare the Texans situation to the NBA? It's the most ridiculous constant attempt I've seen out of any poster on this site and it's completely counter productive to any discussion because they're two completely different leagues with all types of different factors involved and yet that's the only thing you continue to try and fall back on. You're just making yourself sound less educated and logical to any football discussion. What's next, a comparison to the MLB and the Astros?? A comparison to the NHL?

Mr teX
04-19-2011, 11:40 AM
Geez, do you ever get tired of sounding completely foolish with this back and forth garbage of trying to compare the Texans situation to the NBA? It's the most ridiculous constant attempt I've seen out of any poster on this site and it's completely counter productive to any discussion because they're two completely different leagues with all types of different factors involved and yet that's the only thing you continue to try and fall back on. You're just making yourself sound less educated and logical to any football discussion. What's next, a comparison to the MLB and the Astros?? A comparison to the NHL?

Then my goal here is achieved...

Deal with it..we have to deal with your incessant rants about why kubiak/Smith are satan reincarnated as a HC/GM & are the worst HC/GM tandem this side of marty morniwheg/Matt Millen.

Texecutioner
04-19-2011, 11:47 AM
Then my goal here is achieved...



Confirmation that you're trolling. At least you finally admit it instead of creating phony NBA comparisons and deflecting random diversions of different sports as some sort of spin. Stop wasting people's time and acting like you want to have a discussion that's productive.

This statement right here says everything anyone needs to know about what you spew.

infantrycak
04-19-2011, 11:58 AM
My issue is this, if we're going to give him "Credit" for finding a UDFA who led the league in rushing, then he also deserves the criticism for his other moves. You don't get one without the other. I sat in a luncheon where Kubiak told the crowd that Wali Lundy was good-to-go as a starter.

Sure you have to take the bad with the good. My point is simply there is enough real bad so none needs to be made up. Lundy wasn't drafted in the 6th with the intention he would be the day 1 starter. I give them less credit for finding Arian than some but the flip side is I am not going to nail them with they cared so little they only through a 6th rounder to get their intended starter.

Ole Miss Texan
04-19-2011, 12:05 PM
Sure you have to take the bad with the good. My point is simply there is enough real bad so none needs to be made up. Lundy wasn't drafted in the 6th with the intention he would be the day 1 starter. I give them less credit for finding Arian than some but the flip side is I am not going to nail them with they cared so little they only through a 6th rounder to get their intended starter.
Absolutely there's been plenty of bad and plenty of good. The one thing I'll agree with all the soapers, and I think most everyone will, is we've never made the playoffs and that's unacceptable.

In regards to Foster, I don't credit Kubiak with being some brilliant person... I do credit him with the tough love he showed Arian and developed him into a real professional - to which Foster has publicly aknowledged the progress he made due to Kubiak. I do have a problem with people thinking we could have just plugged Foster in day 1 as an undrafted rookie and that he'd be the same Foster we saw this past season. That's completely ignorant.

nero THE zero
04-19-2011, 12:21 PM
I do have a problem with people thinking we could have just plugged Foster in day 1 as an undrafted rookie and that he'd be the same Foster we saw this past season. That's completely ignorant.

So true. That's a Dylan Gwyn talking point there, and a microcosm of why I can't listen to him; complete disregard for facts and circumstance in favor of sensationalism.

Hell, I don't think Foster is even out of the woods with maturity issues. In fact, in the future I fully expect something comparable to, if not worse than the Oakland incident last season. Full credit for Kubiak in handling him the way he has.

Texecutioner
04-19-2011, 12:27 PM
Not going to go round and round on the other stuff but the above perception doesn't meet reality.

1st half - 161 att, 777 yds, 4.8 ypc, 5 TDs 42 1st downs 28 rec. 213 yds 7.6 ypr 0 TD's 14 1st downs
2nd half - 161 att. 821 yds, 5.1 ypc, 11 TDs 46 1st downs 38 rec. 391 yds 10.3 ypr 2 TD's 20 1st downs

So Foster touched the ball more in the 2nd half of games and did more with those touches this despite us often being substantially behind and needing to score quickly.

I can't remember the games right off the top of my head specifically, but I remember like 3 different games where fans were all over the place raving about how Foster barely touched the ball in the 2nd half of games that we lost while he had been very effective in the first half.

gary
04-19-2011, 12:32 PM
I can't remember the games right off the top of my head specifically, but I remember like 3 different games where fans were all over the place raving about how Foster barely touched the ball in the 2nd half of games that we lost while he had been very effective in the first half.The Monday night game in Indy was one of those games.

nero THE zero
04-19-2011, 12:33 PM
I can't remember the games right off the top of my head specifically, but I remember like 3 different games where fans were all over the place raving about how Foster barely touched the ball in the 2nd half of games that we lost while he had been very effective in the first half.
I know the Giants and Colts (away) games were two games where fans were up in arms about Foster not getting enough touches. But, so far as I recall it had nothing to do with 1st half/2nd half, and in the Giants game in particular nothing we did that day was going to work.

Mr teX
04-19-2011, 01:08 PM
Confirmation that you're trolling. At least you finally admit it instead of creating phony NBA comparisons and deflecting random diversions of different sports as some sort of spin. Stop wasting people's time and acting like you want to have a discussion that's productive.

This statement right here says everything anyone needs to know about what you spew.

please...nearly every thread you post in there's a "i'm right" in it in some form or another. You hate me & my comparisons b/c they don't jive with your crap just like i hate your labeling of posters & your sky is falling mentality. Get over yourself. At least now you know how many of us feel in here.

& Troll......L.O.L. Well that's a 1st, i've never been called a troll before.

HoustonFrog
04-19-2011, 01:14 PM
I know the Giants and Colts (away) games were two games where fans were up in arms about Foster not getting enough touches. But, so far as I recall it had nothing to do with 1st half/2nd half, and in the Giants game in particular nothing we did that day was going to work.

There was definitely a discrepency in many games. Reporters actually confronted Kubiak with the stats in different press conferences. You just can't take full season stats and say they are similar so it didn't happen. They completely went away from the run in multiple games in the 4th. I can do the research because you have to go play by play online..losses. I picked these randomly and if you look ply by play you can see how many 4th quarters was all Schaub in shotgun. Some games Foster got them back in it and then bye. There are more. If I missed a direct snap hwere and there...sorry, hard to go through details and work..lol

Giants

1st-4
2nd-4
3rd-0
4th-2

Colts game

Of course Mr. Brilliant, after the first Colt game came out first series throwing..not one run. Then they settled in and in the
1st quarter had 6 attempts.
2nd quarter he had 2 attempts.
3rd quarter-4 attempts and
4th -3 attempts despite being back in game. It was mostly throw all 4th.

San Diego Game

1st-6
2nd-11
3rd-7
4th-1

J'Ville

1st-3
2nd-4
3rd-4
4th-3

Philly
1st-2
2nd-8
3rd-11
4th-0

Texecutioner
04-19-2011, 01:19 PM
& Troll......L.O.L. Well that's a 1st, i've never been called a troll before.

You said it yourself.

infantrycak
04-19-2011, 02:01 PM
I know the Giants and Colts (away) games were two games where fans were up in arms about Foster not getting enough touches. But, so far as I recall it had nothing to do with 1st half/2nd half, and in the Giants game in particular nothing we did that day was going to work.

Giants yeah only 11 attempts but he was only averaging 2.3 ypc that day.

Colts 7 of 15 rushing attempts in 2nd half with a TD and 8 of 9 passing completions.

nero THE zero
04-19-2011, 02:40 PM
Reporters actually confronted Kubiak with the stats in different press conferences.

You're talking about Granato, right? From what I remember (take that for what it's worth, heh), the beef was more about not running at all as opposed to getting away from the run.

Your numbers don't really support the idea that we were a first half-heavy run team.

Tx Longhorn
04-19-2011, 06:07 PM
Wow, nice way to recreate history to put down the Texans. Schaub was a hot commodity. He had been high RFA tendered. The year prior there were reports two different teams had offered 1st round draft picks for him and the Falcons refused. And while the dog thing hadn't broken Vick was on uncertain ground. Many fans were calling for Schaub to start over Vick and there were reports Blank dealt Schaub in part to end the controversy. And Sage and Schaub shouldn't be compared. Not all 2nd string QB's are equal. A better comparison would be Vick's backup right now, Kevin Kolb who there is also a market for.

Funny how revisionist history works sometimes huh?

I remember the Browns, Vikings and Dolphins coveted Schaub. If I recall correctly, San Francisco had him on their wish list too.

Regarding the topic at hand: I feel it's obvious Houston realizes the secondary upgrades are essentially. While Ike Taylor certainly lacks the prestige and sizzle of Aso, don't be fooled in to thinking he's a bad cornerback and that the Texans would be settling.

The Ike Taylor I see was the guy who kept Greg Jennings in check a majority of the Super Bowl. He's a player with decent cover skills and ability to go man-on-man with most WR in the league. Does he get burnt? Sure. However, he's more apt to keep his WR in check than people realize.

View it this way.. Is Ike Taylor going to make this secondary better? Is he going to be an upgrade fro Glover Quin? I think in both cases, you can emphatically say yes.

I'll be the first to tell you, Taylor better be attached with the term "and (insert name/names here)" when talking about the new and improved Texan secondary. However, I say the same thing for all the names Houston could wind up landing... Including Aso.

This wasn't the case of the Texans outbidding themselves. There was a legitimate market for Schaub, and Houston came with the best offer.

The Pencil Neck
04-19-2011, 08:07 PM
Well I really don't care what your qualms are with what I know from what Kubiak stated himself over the years and with what he tried to pull off. I don't have to justify what I think of what Kubes thought to you either. This is history and these are things he said and things he tried in games and he failed plenty. But we can all sit back and act like we're not headed in year 6 with a losing HC and act like we've got all these great reasons to optimistic at Reliant theme park. I hear the Kool Aid is great.

Yeah, you can straight out lie all you want to. It doesn't make it true.

Lucky
04-19-2011, 10:16 PM
I remember the Browns, Vikings and Dolphins coveted Schaub. If I recall correctly, San Francisco had him on their wish list too.
I believe the Jets to get Schaub included in the Abraham deal, the year prior. Schaub was a commodity in 2006-2007. And the Texans paid a market price (2 2nds = mid 1st). I think the key was getting Schaub to agree to a long term deal. QBs wanted to play for Kubiak.

Still can't see the Texans coming away with Taylor. If they are going over market to get a vet (and they probably should), I would prefer Joseph. And say what you want about his character, but Cromartie is a better player.

Texecutioner
04-19-2011, 10:50 PM
Yeah, you can straight out lie all you want to. It doesn't make it true.

Huh! You can keep your head in the sand all you want and act like kubiak hasn't made bone headed decisions at rb all you want. You cant change facts or history though. It's amazing at how you sunshiners give this unconditional support just because they're employed in Houston. I won't be surprised when plenty of you are doing it for wade Phillips when he is the next hc either even though he was a laughing stock around here before he was hired by McNair. Now he is this great defensive savior all of a sudden on this site which is no surprise.

beerlover
04-19-2011, 11:07 PM
I've heard Joseph name come up on several occasions & for a nice change, agree with Lucky.

steelbtexan
04-19-2011, 11:11 PM
Don't bother I-cak its a lost cause. Some are so blinded by their hate that it makes them impossible to give this regime credit for anything regardless if its the truth or not.

I give them the credit they deserve.

Four 5-7 starts to seasons in a row.

Lucky
04-19-2011, 11:43 PM
I've heard Joseph name come up on several occasions & for a nice change, agree with Lucky.
You were bound to get something right, eventually. :)

Ole Miss Texan
04-20-2011, 09:06 AM
I don't really see much with Cromartie. I much prefer Ike Taylor and think he would be better on this team. Joseph would be an excellent pick up but not much has been discussed about him because he was tendered for a 1st and 3rd. Obviously the CBA could/will change all this but Taylor is more attainable it seems.

HoustonFrog
04-20-2011, 10:09 AM
You're talking about Granato, right? From what I remember (take that for what it's worth, heh), the beef was more about not running at all as opposed to getting away from the run.

Your numbers don't really support the idea that we were a first half-heavy run team.

My numbers support that they abondoned it in the 4th when they could have stuck with it. And those were random games where I combed through the play by play. I could hit all 16, or more specifically the 10 losses.

As far as DBs, here is the ESPN rankings of DBs. On a side note I've heard both LZ and another NFL guy say that Cromartie would work best in the new scheme but do you really think the Texans would go after the baby maker? Me neither.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/23050/power-rankings-top-10-nfl-cornerbacks

1. Darrelle Revis, New York Jets
2. Nnamdi Asomugha, Oakland Raiders
3. Charles Woodson, Green Bay Packers
4. Asante Samuel, Philadelphia Eagles
5. Champ Bailey, Denver Broncos
6. Antoine Winfield, Minnesota Vikings
7. Tramon Williams, Green Bay Packers
8. Devin McCourty, New England Patriots
9. DeAngelo Hall, Washington Redskins
10. Cortland Finnegan, Tennessee Titans


Others Receiving Votes
11 Stanford Routt 6 -- -- 10 -- -- -- -- 6
12 Johnathan Joseph -- -- 7 -- -- 10 -- -- 5
12 Antonio Cromartie 8 -- -- -- 9 -- -- -- 5
12 Brent Grimes -- 9 8 -- -- -- -- -- 5
15 Jabari Greer -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 7 4
16 Brandon Flowers 10 -- 9 -- -- -- -- 3
16 D. Rodgers-Cromartie -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 8 3
16 Charles Tillman -- -- -- -- -- -- 8 -- 3
19 Leon Hall 9 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 2
19 Dunta Robinson -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 9 2
21 Ron Bartell -- -- 10 -- -- -- -- -- 1
21 Corey Webster -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 10 1
21 Quentin Jammer -- -- -- -- -- -- 10 --

nero THE zero
04-20-2011, 10:41 AM
My numbers support that they abondoned it in the 4th when they could have stuck with it. And those were random games where I combed through the play by play. I could hit all 16, or more specifically the 10 losses.


According to the numbers you presented, the only game where you could make a reasonable case that they "abandoned the run in the second half," which was the original assertion, was the San Diego game.

Abandoning the run in the second half is not the same as not running enough in the second half. This is a petty distinction, but a legitimate one, nonetheless.

HoustonFrog
04-20-2011, 11:05 AM
According to the numbers you presented, the only game where you could make a reasonable case that they "abandoned the run in the second half," which was the original assertion, was the San Diego game.

Abandoning the run in the second half is not the same as not running enough in the second half. This is a petty distinction, but a legitimate one, nonetheless.

You aren't getting the point. The original assertion was second half. Then Cak brought out first and second half stats. You can't do it that way without knowing what went on during each game. If you are running effectively in the 3rd quarter and it helps get you back in a game and then you go shotgun the whole 4th...that is an issue and the one that was broached all last year and that I proved with the stats. How is 0 runs against Philly not another game when they ran it 11 times in the 3rd? Again random games. It isn't like people are making this up. I picked those 5 at random...all losses. If you have something that is working and then don't use it or underuse it (say 3 times when it is your best weapon) during the crucial quarter of the game, then it is an issue. One they had.

As a whole they were never consistent from game to game as to what the strategy was, especially when you had the leading rusher. I didn't have time but there were some drives in the play by play that had 3-4 Arian runs and then TD. Then the next 2 series or in the next quarter...Schaub in the shotgun, Schaub in the shotgun, etc, etc. I recommend that people spend some time looking at it and you will see a startling inconsistency.

Tailgate
04-20-2011, 11:26 AM
Here is my question and in relation to what started all of this by Texecutioner. If we had even a mid level D last year would we have been a solid team and very strong possibility of a playoff team? I think so. Why? Because our offense is basically SET. It is one of the top offenses in the league. The peronel on the O side is very set and you cant really dispute the current roster here.

The problem was and always has been mainly with the D. This regime now has a PROVEN coach who will be making the decisions on this side of the ball now, and you cant simply just go off of the past mistakes this regime has made on D to predict the future here. Things have changed and this draft and free agency will determine where we go now, and the decisions will be made with a fresh perspective. Much needed.

HoustonFrog
04-20-2011, 11:31 AM
Here is my question and in relation to what started all of this by Texecutioner. If we had even a mid level D last year would we have been a solid team and very strong possibility of a playoff team? I think so. Why? Because our offense is basically SET. It is one of the top offenses in the league. The peronel on the O side is very set and you cant really dispute the current roster here.

The problem was and always has been mainly with the D. This regime now has a PROVEN coach who will be making the decisions on this side of the ball now, and you cant simply just go off of the past mistakes this regime has made on D to predict the future here. Things have changed and this draft and free agency will determine where we go now, and the decisions will be made with a fresh perspective. Much needed.

I never bought into this theory. It takes revisionism back another step. Overall each game is played inside a bubble. The Texans, for a majority of games last year, fell behind early, started slow on offense and basically failed on O and D to start games. Then the O would kick it up a notch to try and win some games but they would fail. This also takes into account the other team changing their D with a lead, etc. So if your hinest some scores were more a levekl of trash time. Not alot but some. If the Texans had a decent D and they were only down 7-10 instead of 17 and the other team changed their D to blitz more we still don't know if they would have lost by 3 or 14. That is the rub. Each game is game planned from quarter to quarter so just saying an improved D means playoffs is a farce. Alot of it comes down to consistency of offense and defense for 4 quarters...their main issue last year..

infantrycak
04-20-2011, 12:33 PM
You aren't getting the point. The original assertion was second half. Then Cak brought out first and second half stats. You can't do it that way without knowing what went on during each game. If you are running effectively in the 3rd quarter and it helps get you back in a game and then you go shotgun the whole 4th...that is an issue and the one that was broached all last year and that I proved with the stats.

You didn't prove it with the stats and you hit on why - knowing what went on each game. Down 21 points at half and running effectively in the 3rd but only manage 3 pts it's time to crank up the pace. The Texans were down deep often in the 4th quarter and you know that. Trying to isolate out that quarter defies NFL logic. Even teams built to run three quarters of the time will drop their 4th quarter rushing attempts to go to the air if they enter it down 14, or even if they enter down by 7 and then the other team eats 8 minutes off the clock and scores. On the NFL Network they said the Texans set an NFL record of coming back from 14 or more points to tie or take a lead.

I never bought into this theory. It takes revisionism back another step. Overall each game is played inside a bubble.

So it is OK to get outside the bubble and say Kubiak is stupid becuase XYZ would have happened if only he had run Arian more...but it isn't OK to say if our secondary was middle of the league last year (much less the entire D) ABC would have happened.

HoustonFrog
04-20-2011, 12:39 PM
You didn't prove it with the stats and you hit on why - knowing what went on each game. Down 21 points at half and running effectively in the 3rd but only manage 3 pts it's time to crank up the pace. The Texans were down deep often in the 4th quarter and you know that. Trying to isolate out that quarter defies NFL logic. Even teams built to run three quarters of the time will drop their 4th quarter rushing attempts to go to the air if they enter it down 14, or even if they enter down by 7 and then the other team eats 8 minutes off the clock and scores. On the NFL Network they said the Texans set an NFL record of coming back from 14 or more points to tie or take a lead.



So it is OK to get outside the bubble and say Kubiak is stupid becuase XYZ would have happened if only he had run Arian more...but it isn't OK to say if our secondary was middle of the league last year (much less the entire D) ABC would have happened.

What do you mean "and you know that." Some of the games I looked at they were down in the first big, ran and were actually back in it by running. I really don't get having to defend EVERY thing a coach or team does. All I'm pointing out is that you doing a full season half and half look is a very broad piece and shows nothing about how they actually ran the ball when it counted. Do you think announcers, commentators, writers, and fans all just make this up because of an agenda? When you have an offensive MVP type guy and you don't mix him in it points to inconsistencies. The play by play I looked at bore this out.

Seriously? Can someone bring back old Cak and not Bob and Gary's Cak. Your go-go gadget arms are reaching here. :) I NEVER said they lost games or should have won games because they didn't run Arian. I said it is a legitimate criticism when you have a great runner and he isn't used. I was responding to your broad half by half assessment. That is a chasm of a difference compared to "if we had a mediocre D we make it to the playoffs." One is a known..Arian Foster was productive and could be used. The other is a fantasy scenario where having an alright D changes the face of every game without knowing how each teams strategy would account for it or if it would make a difference. We know how good Foster could be and we know if he was effective in certain games. Get realistic. Kubiak has done alot of stupid stuff. That is a fact. He has been outcoached. We all know that..I hope. It is a legitimate discussion point on what happened. Just like it is legitimate to say that Ike Taylor has many question marks and to me is just like bringing in a guy like Jacques Reeves. You take your chances if he helps or not. Of course you guys will fit my opinion into "an agenda" just like when I warned against Reeves.

Tailgate
04-20-2011, 01:17 PM
I never bought into this theory. It takes revisionism back another step. Overall each game is played inside a bubble. The Texans, for a majority of games last year, fell behind early, started slow on offense and basically failed on O and D to start games. Then the O would kick it up a notch to try and win some games but they would fail. This also takes into account the other team changing their D with a lead, etc. So if your hinest some scores were more a levekl of trash time. Not alot but some. If the Texans had a decent D and they were only down 7-10 instead of 17 and the other team changed their D to blitz more we still don't know if they would have lost by 3 or 14. That is the rub. Each game is game planned from quarter to quarter so just saying an improved D means playoffs is a farce. Alot of it comes down to consistency of offense and defense for 4 quarters...their main issue last year..

Its purely speculation and a matter of opinion of course. The flipside to your argument is that the Texans were dead last in take-aways with 18. Not hard to see where I am going with that. The only reason we were above average in terms of turnover differential was due to our offense. Thats quite an imbalance.

http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/football/nfl/stats/turnovers

Texecutioner
04-20-2011, 01:18 PM
[QUOTE=HoustonFrog;1681799] Just like it is legitimate to say that Ike Taylor has many question marks and to me is just like bringing in a guy like Jacques Reeves. You take your chances if he helps or not. Of course you guys will fit my opinion into "an agenda" just like when I warned against Reeves.

Oh, remember when Reeves was brought here? I remember being extremely ticked off that "Reeves" was the guy that Kubiak and company thought was somehow an answer to our problems we had at CB. I got ripped in here by the homers who just believed in Reeves for no reason at all other than the fact that he was now employed by this franchise. Reeves was nothing but a Cowboys cast off when we brought him here and I told folks that and people acted like they wanted to kill my family for it because I wasn't being optimistic about how much he could possibly improve. You knew that as a Cowboys fan obviously and Cowboys fans laughed at us as usual at the time, because they knew we were stupid for thinking we plugged a hole with him. The part that's even more sad is that since getting Reeves, we haven't even gotten anyone better since. We've actually regressed from the poor quality of Reeves.

Tailgate
04-20-2011, 01:47 PM
[QUOTE=Texecutioner;1681799]

Oh, remember when Reeves was brought here? I remember being extremely ticked off that "Reeves" was the guy that Kubiak and company thought was somehow an answer to our problems we had at CB. I got ripped in here by the homers who just believed in Reeves for no reason at all other than the fact that he was now employed by this franchise. Reeves was nothing but a Cowboys cast off when we brought him here and I told folks that and people acted like they wanted to kill my family for it because I wasn't being optimistic about how much he could possibly improve. You knew that as a Cowboys fan obviously and Cowboys fans laughed at us as usual at the time, because they knew we were stupid for thinking we plugged a hole with him. The part that's even more sad is that since getting Reeves, we haven't even gotten anyone better since. We've actually regressed from the poor quality of Reeves.

Exactly. Thanks for reiterating my original point. Jacques Reeves was let go by Wade Phillips.

HoustonFrog
04-20-2011, 01:49 PM
Its purely speculation and a matter of opinion of course. The flipside to your argument is that the Texans were dead last in take-aways with 18. Not hard to see where I am going with that. The only reason we were above average in terms of turnover differential was due to our offense. Thats quite an imbalance.

http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/football/nfl/stats/turnovers

And I don't want to come across as saying that a Good D would not have helped. I mean that is why you go and get a new D coordinator and players..to improve a weakness and to get you over the top. I was just going off how the Texans found ways to lose games last year and how the offense was also inconsistent at times. So I'm not convinced that they might not have found themselves in the same spot even with a decent D. I won't bridge the gap of Decent D equals playoffs. But of course a better defense helps.

steelbtexan
04-20-2011, 06:37 PM
2009 the defense was ranked in the top 15. Results 9-7

2011 If the Texans have a top 15 defense (Doubtful) another 8-8,9-7 record could be in the offing. Is this good enough for Gary and Rick to keep their jobs?

CloakNNNdagger
04-20-2011, 07:03 PM
After reading this last page about last year's O and D, the main question I haven't seen answered is why the O was so terrible in the 1 st quarters...........it wasn't because they were too tired.:thinking:

infantrycak
04-20-2011, 08:54 PM
What do you mean "and you know that."

I meant exactly what I said in the part outside your quote. The Texans were down a lot in the 4th quarter and that logically leads to a drop off in rushing.

I really don't get having to defend EVERY thing a coach or team does. All I'm pointing out is that you doing a full season half and half look is a very broad piece and shows nothing about how they actually ran the ball when it counted.

Seriously? Can someone bring back old Cak and not Bob and Gary's Cak.

I responded to an a specific assertion about halves and on halves it was false. And PS - I said Rick Smith should be fired and Kubiak should be fired if we could get what looked like a substantial upgrade. I just don't like false factual assertions.

I NEVER said they lost games or should have won games because they didn't run Arian. I said it is a legitimate criticism when you have a great runner and he isn't used.

Theoretical statement - if the assertion isn't going to make a difference in a game then how is it a legitimate criticism. C'mon, the vast majority of make allegations like "Arian wasn't run enough" mean we would have won more if Kubiak wasn't so stupid. That's perfectly fine as an opinion.

I was responding to your broad half by half assessment.

I didn't choose that assessment. If you had put yours out and given circumstance I most likely would have said nothing at all.

Just like it is legitimate to say that Ike Taylor has many question marks and to me is just like bringing in a guy like Jacques Reeves. You take your chances if he helps or not. Of course you guys will fit my opinion into "an agenda" just like when I warned against Reeves.

My personal feeling is Ike Taylor won't help much. I was making two comments (a) you play in the available pool and (b) when #2 or even #1 free agent available at a position is only mediocre it isn't fair to say the team makes no free agent moves.

HoustonFrog
04-21-2011, 08:11 AM
I meant exactly what I said in the part outside your quote. The Texans were down a lot in the 4th quarter and that logically leads to a drop off in rushing.



I responded to an a specific assertion about halves and on halves it was false. And PS - I said Rick Smith should be fired and Kubiak should be fired if we could get what looked like a substantial upgrade. I just don't like false factual assertions.



Theoretical statement - if the assertion isn't going to make a difference in a game then how is it a legitimate criticism. C'mon, the vast majority of make allegations like "Arian wasn't run enough" mean we would have won more if Kubiak wasn't so stupid. That's perfectly fine as an opinion.



I didn't choose that assessment. If you had put yours out and given circumstance I most likely would have said nothing at all.



My personal feeling is Ike Taylor won't help much. I was making two comments (a) you play in the available pool and (b) when #2 or even #1 free agent available at a position is only mediocre it isn't fair to say the team makes no free agent moves.

I understand those counters. Well written. I understand and for the record was playing about old and new Cak..thus the smiley...but I do think they relied on Schaub in some games where I think they could have kept pounding the ball while staying in the game. Overall my issue with them last year was more the slow starts on both O and D. Agree completely on Ike. Without going into too much detail, my comparison on he to Reeves was due to basics I saw. When I warned about Reeves here it was because while watching the Cowboys I had watched him make some great plays and breaks on the ball where people got excited about him but in reality those plays were few and far between. There were many times when he was just lost or beat. The guy was nothing more than a decent nickel type guy to me that could make plays here and there. I believe Ike Taylor is slightly better but I get the same feeling from him. When I've watched him I have thought "really solid...typical Steeler." But at the same time I've seen him get turned around and seemingly lost. I think the rest of the D kind of covers for him. So I don't mind guys like him coming in, I just don't expect them to turn the D around or be a massive upgrade. He is a "piece" type guy, not THE piece or upgrade.

steelbtexan
04-21-2011, 09:52 AM
I understand those counters. Well written. I understand and for the record was playing about old and new Cak..thus the smiley...but I do think they relied on Schaub in some games where I think they could have kept pounding the ball while staying in the game. Overall my issue with them last year was more the slow starts on both O and D. Agree completely on Ike. Without going into too much detail, my comparison on he to Reeves was due to basics I saw. When I warned about Reeves here it was because while watching the Cowboys I had watched him make some great plays and breaks on the ball where people got excited about him but in reality those plays were few and far between. There were many times when he was just lost or beat. The guy was nothing more than an decent nickel type guy to me that could make plays here and there. I believe Ike Taylor is slightly better but I get the same feeling from him. When I've watched him I have thought "really solid...typical Steeler." But at the same time I've seen him get turned around and seemingly lost. I think the rest of the D kind of covers for him. So I don't mind guys like him coming in, I just don't expect them to turn the D around or be a massive upgrade. He is a "piece" type guy, not THE piece or upgrade.

Agreed with you on Taylor.

Cak is close to being an apologist for Gary. LOL I mean how hard is it to find a HC that can get his team to play more than half a game. The thing that makes this sad is that it's been going on for 5 yrs and counting.

infantrycak
04-21-2011, 11:44 AM
Cak is close to being an apologist for Gary. LOL I mean how hard is it to find a HC that can get his team to play more than half a game.

I said get Cowher if you could. I hate Gruden so no I would not have gone that route. I guess Wade was available but hell a lot of folks aren't thrilled with him as DC would you have been excited if he was HC?

But what makes me come across apologist to you guys is I recognize Kubiak is here this year. Continuing to carp about him, throw everything at his doorstep, etc. isn't going to make a difference and more specifically as I have said on many occasions, making things up to complain about won't change either the past or the future. I mean seriously, when it gets to the point of blaming Antonio Smith jumping off-sides on one particular play on Kubiak then yeah, the bitching and moaning has gotten out of hand.

HoustonFrog
04-21-2011, 11:50 AM
I said get Cowher if you could. I hate Gruden so no I would not have gone that route. I guess Wade was available but hell a lot of folks aren't thrilled with him as DC would you have been excited if he was HC?

But what makes me come across apologist to you guys is I recognize Kubiak is here this year. Continuing to carp about him, throw everything at his doorstep, etc. isn't going to make a difference and more specifically as I have said on many occasions, making things up to complain about won't change either the past or the future. I mean seriously, when it gets to the point of blaming Antonio Smith jumping off-sides on one particular play on Kubiak then yeah, the bitching and moaning has gotten out of hand.

I can see this. I'm bored. I do think Kubes' system and how he works and the GM/owner stuff is fair game though. He is here but for some reason it still makes me a little tense. I just see this constant spinning of wheels even if he finds his nut one season. As for stuff like the offsides...Didn't do that. That game was purely a bad ending no matter how you slice it.

2slik4u
04-21-2011, 11:55 AM
I said get Cowher if you could. I hate Gruden so no I would not have gone that route. I guess Wade was available but hell a lot of folks aren't thrilled with him as DC would you have been excited if he was HC?

But what makes me come across apologist to you guys is I recognize Kubiak is here this year. Continuing to carp about him, throw everything at his doorstep, etc. isn't going to make a difference and more specifically as I have said on many occasions, making things up to complain about won't change either the past or the future. I mean seriously, when it gets to the point of blaming Antonio Smith jumping off-sides on one particular play on Kubiak then yeah, the bitching and moaning has gotten out of hand.

Bro, Ive stayed off of these boards since the beginning of the off season because the bitching and moaning gets very old. I 100% agree with everything you said and I feel the same way. Kubiak is here. Nothing can be done about it.

Give it a rest fellas.

Rep to you Infantry.

infantrycak
04-21-2011, 11:56 AM
I can see this. I'm bored. I do think Kubes' system and how he works and the GM/owner stuff is fair game though. He is here but for some reason it still makes me a little tense. I just see this constant spinning of wheels even if he finds his nut one season. As for stuff like the offsides...Didn't do that. That game was purely a bad ending no matter how you slice it.

I know it wasn't you. I just didn't want to call anyone out in particular and the you guys wasn't meant just for you and steele either. Notch it up to I don't like runaway trains rather than I have any affinity for Kubiak.

:worldpeace:

Mr teX
04-21-2011, 12:09 PM
I said get Cowher if you could. I hate Gruden so no I would not have gone that route. I guess Wade was available but hell a lot of folks aren't thrilled with him as DC would you have been excited if he was HC?

But what makes me come across apologist to you guys is I recognize Kubiak is here this year. Continuing to carp about him, throw everything at his doorstep, etc. isn't going to make a difference and more specifically as I have said on many occasions, making things up to complain about won't change either the past or the future. I mean seriously, when it gets to the point of blaming Antonio Smith jumping off-sides on one particular play on Kubiak then yeah, the bitching and moaning has gotten out of hand.


Damn, this is just too spot on & i would rep you if i could...

HoustonFrog
05-12-2011, 09:02 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/204422/football-headlines?r=1

Free agent Ike Taylor suggested Thursday that he will give the Steelers first dibs on re-signing him once the league year begins.
"I'm pretty sure we're on the same page," said Taylor. "The ball's in their court ... I've been in Pittsburgh longer than any other city since I was born. That's home to me. Steelers Nation is crazy." Beat writer Scott Brown notes that Taylor is "father-son close" to owner Dan Rooney, and the Steelers are "too smart to try and lowball him." Source: Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

CloakNNNdagger
05-12-2011, 09:26 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/204422/football-headlines?r=1

never mind