PDA

View Full Version : Time might be near for Colts to draft a quarterback


CloakNNNdagger
04-09-2011, 09:03 AM
The inevitable, although maybe not in the next year or so, is something that the Colts can't ignore nor fail to address early.

With Manning entering 14th season, time might be drawing near to find his eventual successor

If the time isn't right for the Indianapolis Colts to seriously address a position occupied by a future Hall of Famer, that time is drawing near.

Team vice chairman Bill Polian conceded earlier this week he "couldn't dismiss" the possibility of looking for a quarterback during the April 28-30 draft.

That's been the domain of Peyton Manning since the Colts selected him with the first pick of the 1998 draft. He is the NFL's only four-time MVP, an 11-time Pro Bowl selection, was MVP of the team's Super Bowl XLI win over the Chicago Bears and has started all 227 games, including the playoffs, since '98.

But there's no denying Manning, 35, is closer to the end than the beginning of his record-breaking career. He is entering his 14th season.

The Colts reportedly put Nevada quarterback Colin Kaepernick through a private workout Friday in Reno. Earlier this week, coach Jim Caldwell and general manager Chris Polian oversaw a private workout with TCU quarterback Andy Dalton.

The team has six picks in the draft, including No. 22 overall. Most draft analysts rate Kaepernick and Dalton as second- to fourth-round prospects.

The only other quarterback on the Colts roster is Curtis Painter, who has served as Manning's backup since being chosen in the sixth round of the 2009 draft.

"Quarterback's an issue, probably not a front-burner issue, but an issue nonetheless because while Peyton's not at the end of his career, it's approaching faster than it has in the past," Polian said. "I wouldn't rule that out in the right situation."

The prevailing question is: How soon should the process of acquiring Manning's eventual successor and grooming him begin? "You don't know," Polian said, "but you know it's sometime soon. You begin to think about it."

So, might the Colts be in the market for a Manning successor or backup in the draft?

"I don't know that you're going to find his eventual replacement drafting 22nd," Polian said. "And whether or not you would use that choice on a quarterback in an unsettled labor situation, where you don't know what kind of contract that's going to be signed, is another issue.

"That said, I don't think you can dismiss it."

The Green Bay Packers faced a similar dilemma in 2005. Brett Favre was 35 and heading into his 15th season. The Packers, unsure how much longer Favre might play, selected Aaron Rodgers with the 24th pick in the draft.

The grooming process lasted longer than expected. Rodgers appeared in just seven games and attempted only 59 passes in his first three seasons.

It's assumed Manning will finish his career with the Colts, but his future remains unsettled. His contract expired at the end of the 2010 season and the team used the "exclusive franchise" tag to keep him from hitting the open market. That guarantees Manning a one-year, $23.1 million contract, but the former NFL Players Association contends the ability of teams to use the franchise and transition tags ended when the collective bargaining agreement expired last month.

Owner Jim Irsay said last month he fully anticipates the franchise tag to remain valid.

"I have never seen a situation where the tag is in jeopardy," he said while reiterating his commitment to make Manning the highest-paid player in NFL history, surpassing the $18 million-a-year extension the New England Patriots gave quarterback Tom Brady in September.
INDYSTAR (http://www.indystar.com/article/20110409/SPORTS03/104090350/Is-time-Colts-draft-QB-?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|p)

CloakNNNdagger
04-09-2011, 09:09 AM
Future events may also be influenced by a recent revelation.

A secret no more: Fulmer confirms Manning twins (http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2011/apr/09/secret-no-more-fulmer-confirms-manning-twins/)

Texan4Ever
04-09-2011, 09:16 AM
Isn't this the most difficult thing for a team to accomplish? Replacing a star quarterback that was the cornerstone of your franchise has set many teams backwards (e.g. 49ers).

Might be good for the Texans! :thinking:

infantrycak
04-09-2011, 11:08 AM
I'm betting Manning starts until he is at least 40. Smart QB's last longer than athletic ones. While I hope they spend a high pick on a replacement I think the Colts would be foolish to do it before he is 39.

IDEXAN
04-09-2011, 11:39 AM
Along with Elway I rate Manning the greatest QB ever, but hate that the Texans get stuck having to face him twice a year, every year.
Surely he gets injured at some point and begins to miss some time, but it probably won't be from game-day contact because the refs are now almost to the point where they suspend a defender for half the seaon if he looks cross-ways at Peyton. Maybe he'll twist an ankle running to the sidelines ?
It always interested me how the refs let another old guy QB icon, Brett Farve, get knocked around pretty good without many flags, but Manning gets max protection from them ?

gary
04-09-2011, 11:41 AM
I am not sure if Peyton really decline as much as I am sure that injuries kept the Colts out of the playoffs last season which happens to be the case with most teams in the league no doubt.

infantrycak
04-09-2011, 11:43 AM
Along with Elway I rate Manning the greatest QB ever, but hate that the Texans get stuck having to face him twice a year, every year.
Surely he gets injured at some point and begins to miss some time, but it probably won't be from game-day contact because the refs are now almost to the point where they suspend a defender for half the seaon if he looks cross-ways at Peyton. Maybe he'll twist an ankle running to the sidelines ?
It always interested me how the refs let another old guy QB icon, Brett Farve, get knocked around pretty good without many flags, but Manning gets max protection from them ?

If you scramble you don't get calls. If you slide you do. It ain't fair but it is what it is.

And Roger Staubach was the greatest QB in history - he just shortened his career by six years serving his country (and by several more years taking hits like a RB while being Rodger the Dodger much to Landry's chagrin - many of Landry's most animated moments were aimed at Staubach for not sliding). If for nothing else, the Cowboys should be lauded for their patience in waiting for him.

The Pencil Neck
04-09-2011, 12:05 PM
I am not sure if Peyton really decline as much as I am sure that injuries kept the Colts out of the playoffs last season which happens to be the case with most teams in the league no doubt.

?

The Colts were in the playoffs last year. They lost in the first round to the Jets and might have gone further if they had been healthier, but they were there.

CloakNNNdagger
04-09-2011, 12:07 PM
?

The Colts were in the playoffs last year. They lost in the first round to the Jets and might have gone further if they had been healthier, but they were there.

...........and WE WEREN'T!:texflag:

IDEXAN
04-09-2011, 12:09 PM
And Roger Staubach was the greatest QB in history
Staubach ? Maybe the first time ever I've even heard/seen that name mentioned/appear in the same conversation with all-time greats Elway & Manning ? The altitude would surely give Staubach a headache.

Rey
04-09-2011, 12:19 PM
If I were the Colts I would not spend a late first on a QB in this draft...

I think Manning still has a good amount of time left...I think that he could probably play into his 40's if he wanted to...His playing style doesn't really require young legs.

But besides that, If I were them I'd be more inclined to let Curtis Painter get his crack at it...

gary
04-09-2011, 12:31 PM
?

The Colts were in the playoffs last year. They lost in the first round to the Jets and might have gone further if they had been healthier, but they were there.That is what I ment. My mistake.

HJam72
04-09-2011, 12:34 PM
I highly suggest the Colts get an experienced QB like David Carr. :)

gary
04-09-2011, 12:40 PM
I honestly would like to see Peyton receive another ring or two before he retires just because I enjoy seeing them do what they do best.

CloakNNNdagger
04-09-2011, 01:55 PM
Staubach ? Maybe the first time ever I've even heard/seen that name mentioned/appear in the same conversation with all-time greats Elway & Manning ? The altitude would surely give Staubach a headache.

I've seen Staubach mentioned on many of the all time lists. Here is only one............published in 2008. Their description of Staubach's history pretty much makes the case.

The definitive list: Top 10 NFL quarterbacks (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2103_The_definitive_list:_Top_10_NFL_quarterbac ks.html)

ROGER STAUBACH (Dallas, 1969-79)

Best season (1971): 126 for 211 (59.7%), 1,882 yards, 8.9 YPA, 15 TD, 4 INT, 104.8 passer rating
Career: 1,685 for 2,958 (57.0%), 22,700 yards, 7.7 YPA, 153 TD, 109 INT, 83.4 passer rating
Championships: 1971, 1977
Overview: Roger the Dodger did not become a fulltime NFL quarterback until the 1971 season – at age 29! One wonders what he might have done had he not spent five years in the service after his Heisman-winning 1963 season at Navy and two years sitting behind Craig Morton in Dallas.

Finally given a chance, he quickly proved to be a player for the ages. He took a Dallas club that “couldn’t win the big game” (five crushing playoff losses in five straight seasons, including three in NFL championship games or the Super Bowl) and turned it into a champion and “America’s Team” in his first full year at the helm.

In that 1971 season he played something of a caretaker role, attempting just 211 passes for 1,882 yards, but he tossed 15 TDs to just 4 INTs, averaged an astounding 8.9 YPA and posted a passer rating of 104.8, the second highest of the Dead Ball Era. It’s a truly remarkable number considering the season in which he did it. The league-wide passer rating in 1971 was just 62.2 – the second-lowest league-wide rating since 1956. Staubach shattered the standards of the era in his first full year playing NFL football – or football of any kind since 1963.

He also ended the 1971 season with an MVP performance in Super Bowl VI (a dominating 24-3 win over the Dolphins, who would not lose again until 1973) while placing himself high up on the pigskin pantheon of heroes who have defined America’s Team.

Staubach wasn’t quite done: he added passer-rating titles in 1973, 1978 and 1979, and another Super Bowl title in 1977. He’s one Jackie Smith dropped pass away from a third championship ring – in a game which might have earned Staubach and the Cowboys, not the Steelers, the title of team of the decade in the 1970s.

He also was a great scrambler and ballcarrier who rushed for 20 scores and 2,264 yards on 410 attempts. Most impressive: he played all but two years of his career in the depths of the Dead Ball Era, yet still racked up a career passer rating of 83.4 – No. 1 all time among pre-1980 quarterbacks.

Not bad for a guy who spent five years in the Navy during Vietnam.

For those of you not familiar with the DEAD BALL ERA, you might find this link somewhat interesting. LINK (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/7_631_The_greatest_defenses_of_the_Super_Bowl_Era. html)

Ryan
04-09-2011, 03:50 PM
I honestly would like to see Peyton receive another ring or two before he retires just because I enjoy seeing them do what they do best.


Say it ain't so, Gary. :toropalm:

IDEXAN
04-09-2011, 03:53 PM
I've seen Staubach mentioned on many of the all time lists. Here is only one............published in 2008. Their description of Staubach's history pretty much makes the case.

The definitive list: Top 10 NFL quarterbacks (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2103_The_definitive_list:_Top_10_NFL_quarterbac ks.html)



For those of you not familiar with the DEAD BALL ERA, you might find this link somewhat interesting. LINK (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/7_631_The_greatest_defenses_of_the_Super_Bowl_Era. html)
You did indeed find a list with Staubachs name on it CND, but a top 10 QB list without the name of John Elway ? C'mon man, how real can that list be ?

Carr Bombed
04-09-2011, 04:09 PM
You did indeed find a list with Staubachs name on it CND, but a top 10 QB list without the name of John Elway ? C'mon man, how real can that list be ?

Well here's a list with both players' names on it.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/the-10-greatest-qbs-of-all-time

CloakNNNdagger
04-09-2011, 04:38 PM
You did indeed find a list with Staubachs name on it CND, but a top 10 QB list without the name of John Elway ? C'mon man, how real can that list be ?


Playoffs and SBs?........Staubach in 9 years of starting vs. Manning in 13 years of starting?............and Staubach didn't have the privilege of facing the pitifull Texans twice a year!:toropalm:

CloakNNNdagger
04-09-2011, 04:58 PM
Just coincidentally was listening to EmDiggy for the interview with Barwin and heard his ALL TIME TOP 10 QBS.......#5 Staubach. http://www.footballgameplan.com/fbgp-radio

Nawzer
04-09-2011, 05:31 PM
I think Manning easily plays into his 40's if he can stay healthy. He's a cerebral qb and he can out think the other defenses as well as anyone who ever played this game. That aspect of his game will allow him to play for a long time.

gary
04-09-2011, 07:26 PM
Say it ain't so, Gary. :toropalm:So. Why? Because I look at it this way I live for a limited amount of time so greatness won't be in my life forever so, why not? I like watching Tiger when he is on his game because he is great when he wins just like Manning. Is that wierd? Maybe so but you might well watch/like it because tomorrow might not ever come. Just my point of view.

IDEXAN
04-10-2011, 10:49 AM
Well here's a list with both players' names on it.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/the-10-greatest-qbs-of-all-time
How can I argue with a man whos top 10 list says Elway is the best who ever played the position ? You got me on this one.

infantrycak
04-10-2011, 11:11 AM
I can see disagreement with calling Staubach best of all time. That's my personal opinion. But saying he shouldn't even be mentioned with the likes of Elway is just whack. Staubach had everything you could want in a QB - HUGE leadership, pass first but with an incredible ability to scramble, gigantic ability in crunch time such that another nickname was the Comeback Kid. I mean really, what was he lacking?

Lucky
04-10-2011, 11:36 AM
I mean really, what was he lacking?
All I can think of is the length of his career. Was Staubach the best QB in the league when he played? While acknowledging Bradshaw, Stabler, and Tarkington, the answer is yes. Roger Staubach was the best QB of his time. Was there ever a period when John Elway was the best QB of his time? Maybe. And maybe Elway just played in an era with other great QBs. In my mind, the only QB I would select over Staubach is Joe Montana.

ChampionTexan
04-10-2011, 12:11 PM
All I can think of is the length of his career. Was Staubach the best QB in the league when he played? While acknowledging Bradshaw, Stabler, and Tarkington, the answer is yes. Roger Staubach was the best QB of his time. Was there ever a period when John Elway was the best QB of his time? Maybe. And maybe Elway just played in an era with other great QBs. In my mind, the only QB I would select over Staubach is Joe Montana.

Staubach was never named first (or even second) team NFL All-Pro, nor did he ever win the AP MVP award.

Granted, he won some 1st team All Conference awards, and he received the Bert Bell award - which is "A" MVP award, but AP is considered "The" award when it comes to both All Pro teams and MVP awards.

I'm not saying Staubach isn't under-rated when it comes to the all-time great QB's, but I'm just saying this may be part of the reason why he doesn't get more mention as the all time #1.

IDEXAN
04-10-2011, 12:36 PM
Staubach was never named first (or even second) team NFL All-Pro, nor did he ever win the AP MVP award.

That's very interesting.
I know a lot of people would disagree with me, but I think too much importance is placed on post-season team play, especially SB games, in evaluating a QBs career.
How would Montana be rated if not for his SB wins ? I suspect not very highly ? On the other hand I'd still rate Elway & Manning the 2 best even if they didn't have a single SB win BETWEEN them. JMTOI.

b0ng
04-10-2011, 03:25 PM
You can't really "replace" Manning. He does too much for the offense and I don't there's ever been a player before or since he's been drafted that can do what he does.

Hopefully you can find a QB that is just as talented that can succeed with some talent around him, but I think the Colts would be going about it all wrong if they try to fit somebody in to a Manning2.0 role.

The Pencil Neck
04-10-2011, 07:29 PM
That's very interesting.
I know a lot of people would disagree with me, but I think too much importance is placed on post-season team play, especially SB games, in evaluating a QBs career.
How would Montana be rated if not for his SB wins ? I suspect not very highly ? On the other hand I'd still rate Elway & Manning the 2 best even if they didn't have a single SB win BETWEEN them. JMTOI.

Montana's whole thing is about being clutch and making the plays that had to be made when they needed to be made. Without the SBs, that reputation would have taken a serious blow.

I think Montana might surprise you, stat-wise. Over his career, he did throw for over 40,000 yards even though he didn't throw for a lot of yards in any given season, led 31 4th quarter comebacks and 33 game game winning drives, led the league in completion percentage 5 times and QB Rating twice. He was on a team that racked up a lot of wins in the regular season and dominated a lot of regular seasons and I think that would help his case.

Even without the SBs, he would be considered a really good QB but those SBs show what it was that he was about. Winning.

Double Barrel
04-11-2011, 12:28 PM
Montana's whole thing is about being clutch and making the plays that had to be made when they needed to be made. Without the SBs, that reputation would have taken a serious blow.

Yep.

"Noted for his ability to remain calm under pressure, Montana helped his teams to 31 fourth quarter come-from-behind wins. In the closing moments of the 1981 NFC Championship Game and Super Bowl XXIII, Montana threw game-winning touchdown passes. The touchdown at the end of the championship game was so memorable that sports journalists, fans, and many others, refer to the play simply as "The Catch". The touchdown in the closing moments of Super Bowl XXIII came at the end of a 92-yard drive." source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Montana)

3 Super Bowl MVPs (only player in NFL history to do so).

11 TDs and 0 INTs in Super Bowls, with a passer rating of 127.8

Montana epitomized "clutch" when it mattered the most.

Joe Montana = G.O.A.T., and y'all can argue about who to put at no. 2. :cowboy1:

Hardcore Texan
04-11-2011, 01:48 PM
Yep.

"Noted for his ability to remain calm under pressure, Montana helped his teams to 31 fourth quarter come-from-behind wins. In the closing moments of the 1981 NFC Championship Game and Super Bowl XXIII, Montana threw game-winning touchdown passes. The touchdown at the end of the championship game was so memorable that sports journalists, fans, and many others, refer to the play simply as "The Catch". The touchdown in the closing moments of Super Bowl XXIII came at the end of a 92-yard drive." source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Montana)

3 Super Bowl MVPs (only player in NFL history to do so).

11 TDs and 0 INTs in Super Bowls, with a passer rating of 127.8

Montana epitomized "clutch" when it mattered the most.

Joe Montana = G.O.A.T., and y'all can argue about who to put at no. 2. :cowboy1:

Agreed.

SAMURAITEXAN
04-11-2011, 02:05 PM
Staubach ? Maybe the first time ever I've even heard/seen that name mentioned/appear in the same conversation with all-time greats Elway & Manning ? The altitude would surely give Staubach a headache.

I would put Marino and Montana in there with Elway and Manning.

Mr teX
04-11-2011, 02:10 PM
Ehh..Jughead's not going anywhere any time soon...

I actually think this is just garbage polian was spewing to try & get 1 of the teams above to take a qb to help a certain player fall to them in this year's draft. No way can they be really think Manning is close to the end. He's got at least 4 years of top ball left in him.

& for the record Elway is my personal fave as greatest qb of all time, but Manning will surpass him once he gets that 2nd ring. Montana just had too much help imo. I mean the guy was throwing to THE greatest WR of all time...had THE greatest safety of all time playing on defense along with a bunch of other pro bowl defenders & a top 5 greatest coach of all time in Walsh. Hard to fail with all that around you.

Double Barrel
04-11-2011, 03:41 PM
& for the record Elway is my personal fave as greatest qb of all time, but Manning will surpass him once he gets that 2nd ring. Montana just had too much help imo. I mean the guy was throwing to THE greatest WR of all time...had THE greatest safety of all time playing on defense along with a bunch of other pro bowl defenders & a top 5 greatest coach of all time in Walsh.

Rice wasn't there when Montana won his first ring. And FYI, Ronnie Lott was a CB for that first Super Bowl (but obviously still a badass).

Manning had Marvin Harrison up until recently. And he's got one of the best DE's in the game right now.

Point being that most championship teams have more than one good player, so the logic can be spun however you want to spin it.

Walsh is one of the greatest coaches ever, but he also had one of the greatest QBs playing for him, as well. That certainly helps the resume.

I would like to point out that Montana never lost a Super Bowl. Manning has already lost 1, Elway lost 3, Marino lost 1, and Brady lost 1, as well.

Hard to fail with all that around you.

Then why didn't they win the Super Bowl every year? ;)

Mr teX
04-11-2011, 04:17 PM
Rice wasn't there when Montana won his first ring. And FYI, Ronnie Lott was a CB for that first Super Bowl (but obviously still a badass).

Manning had Marvin Harrison up until recently. And he's got one of the best DE's in the game right now.


Point being that most championship teams have more than one good player, so the logic can be spun however you want to spin it.

Walsh is one of the greatest coaches ever, but he also had one of the greatest QBs playing for him, as well. That certainly helps the resume.

I would like to point out that Montana never lost a Super Bowl. Manning has already lost 1, Elway lost 3, Marino lost 1, and Brady lost 1, as well.



Then why didn't they win the Super Bowl every year? ;)

I apply the same logic i do to Montana that everyone else applies with Terry Bradshaw. He never lost a SB. He had damn good stats & physically had better tools than Montana did. He was also the leader of the greatest dynasty in the SB era. But when people bring up the greatest qb's of all time, He's never mentioned. & if he is he's usually an afterthought. Why? mainly b/c He had a LB / DL / WR core for the ages & one of the greatest coaches of all time. All that applies to Montana as well imo.

The Pencil Neck
04-11-2011, 05:02 PM
I apply the same logic i do to Montana that everyone else applies with Terry Bradshaw. He never lost a SB. He had damn good stats & physically had better tools than Montana did. He was also the leader of the greatest dynasty in the SB era. But when people bring up the greatest qb's of all time, He's never mentioned. & if he is he's usually an afterthought. Why? mainly b/c He had a LB / DL / WR core for the ages & one of the greatest coaches of all time. All that applies to Montana as well imo.

No, Terry Bradshaw just wasn't that good. At least not early in his career. He was inaccurate and he was pretty much an interception machine. He didn't make great decisions. Over his entire career, he threw for less than 28,000 yards and for the length of his career, that's not good.

He was a gutsy QB who would give you everything he had. But if I was putting an offense together, he wouldn't be high on my list for guys I'd want.

Double Barrel
04-11-2011, 07:55 PM
I apply the same logic i do to Montana that everyone else applies with Terry Bradshaw. He never lost a SB. He had damn good stats & physically had better tools than Montana did. He was also the leader of the greatest dynasty in the SB era. But when people bring up the greatest qb's of all time, He's never mentioned. & if he is he's usually an afterthought. Why? mainly b/c He had a LB / DL / WR core for the ages & one of the greatest coaches of all time. All that applies to Montana as well imo.

lol! I almost disclaimered my post with the Bradshaw comparison, but honestly thought to myself that nobody is seriously going to try to make that simplistic jump in logic.

Guess I was wrong about that. :rolleyes:

Bradshaw was a good QB, regardless of public perception. Just go look up his stats. Yeah, he benefited from being on a great team, but most QBs on dynasty teams can be said the same.

But honestly, I'm not about to go down a rabbit hole with someone who is trying to make a case that Montana = Bradshaw. You are in the small minority of NFL fans in that regard, and I get the feeling that your emotions cloud your judgment. No way is it worth my time trying to unlock that mental cage.

No offense intended, but go ahead and crown Manning as GOAT, because that's your obvious agenda.

FYI:

As a rookie, Manning walked into a locker room that had future Hall of Famers Marshall Faulk and Marvin Harrison and the league's best GM, Bill Polian. By year six, Manning was working with veterans such as Harrison, Edgerrin James, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Marcus Pollard and Dwight Freeney. By year nine, when Manning finally qualified for and won a Super Bowl, he was carried by a Tony Dungy defense that covered up Manning's three-TD, seven-INT, subpar playoff run. Source (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/the-10-greatest-qbs-of-all-time)

BTW, the above article has Elway as no. 1, Montana no. 2.

Mr teX
04-12-2011, 09:43 AM
lol! I almost disclaimered my post with the Bradshaw comparison, but honestly thought to myself that nobody is seriously going to try to make that simplistic jump in logic.

Guess I was wrong about that. :rolleyes:

Bradshaw was a good QB, regardless of public perception. Just go look up his stats. Yeah, he benefited from being on a great team, but most QBs on dynasty teams can be said the same.

But honestly, I'm not about to go down a rabbit hole with someone who is trying to make a case that Montana = Bradshaw. You are in the small minority of NFL fans in that regard, and I get the feeling that your emotions cloud your judgment. No way is it worth my time trying to unlock that mental cage.

No offense intended, but go ahead and crown Manning as GOAT, because that's your obvious agenda.

FYI:


C'mon DB, you're at least more rational than some posters here. But you gonna act like i can't find games where Montana stunk it up in the playoffs?

Here's an article that kind of proves both of our points about these guys.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=5850

My point wasn't that Bradshaw was in the convo for greatest qb of all time. It was to bring up that his legacy is at least in part diminished as a qb b/c of the greatness that surrounded him.....despite all of his success & that for whatever reason (49ers beloved by everyone in the 80's?) people don't apply that same reasoning when talking about Montana though he had much of the same greatness around him.

When i rank qbs in this regard i rank them looking at how much they mean to their teams success & how much success they had is secondary to that. Elway & Manning imo clearly mean/meant more to their teams success than Montana did imo. Basically, when either of those guys don't play well, their respective teams lost/lose at least 90% of the time. Guys like Montana & Bradshaw, not so much. & again, i'm not saying that montana was a dime a dozen qb that could easily be replaced, i just think that with Walsh & the WCO maturing at the right time & then the talent that he was able to assemble around montana, it made him slightly less important to them winning than it did/does with those other 2. Put it like this, It's a helluva lot easier to see just a "good" qb coming in & having similar success (2 SB's) with those 49er teams of the 80's than it was/is with Elway's teams from the same era or Manning's teams now.


& For the record there's no agenda, but i did say that i thought Elway was the greatest qb....i just thought that manning would eventually get him when it's all said & done is all.

Double Barrel
04-12-2011, 06:29 PM
I see where you're coming from, Mr Tex. I think we just have different perspectives on "greatness" and how we perceive it. I think all of the QBs that we're talking about are certainly worthy of being mentioned, even Bradshaw. I'd put all of them in my Top 10 list.

I tend to lean toward Montana because of the collective body of work. His 31 fourth quarter come-from-behind wins speak volumes about his mental ability to remain calm and poised under pressure. His 127.8 QB rating and 11 TD/0 INT in Super Bowls reveals an ability to consistently perform well in a very high profile game.

And yeah, he had Jerry Rice...but honestly, part of what made him Jerry Rice was having Montana and Young pass to him for most of his career. He wasn't that impressive (still solid) when he left SF, although it was toward the end of his career.

I saw Elway a lot in his heyday as an Oilers fan. I used to really despise the guy, but I always respected him. I think a solid case could be made for Elway to be no. 1, all things considered. But I think a solid case could be made for about 4-5 QBs. I just choose Montana because of my chosen qualifications.

It's all good, though. I was just yanking your chain about agenda (because you're pimping Manning ;)). You've got my respect even in disagreement, so it's all good.

Norg
04-13-2011, 12:45 PM
If Manning plays has long has brett farve then naaa he will be there for a long time manning never gets hit alot and he knows when to drop to avoid da big hits

Mr teX
04-13-2011, 02:07 PM
I see where you're coming from, Mr Tex. I think we just have different perspectives on "greatness" and how we perceive it. I think all of the QBs that we're talking about are certainly worthy of being mentioned, even Bradshaw. I'd put all of them in my Top 10 list.

I tend to lean toward Montana because of the collective body of work. His 31 fourth quarter come-from-behind wins speak volumes about his mental ability to remain calm and poised under pressure. His 127.8 QB rating and 11 TD/0 INT in Super Bowls reveals an ability to consistently perform well in a very high profile game.

And yeah, he had Jerry Rice...but honestly, part of what made him Jerry Rice was having Montana and Young pass to him for most of his career. He wasn't that impressive (still solid) when he left SF, although it was toward the end of his career.

I saw Elway a lot in his heyday as an Oilers fan. I used to really despise the guy, but I always respected him. I think a solid case could be made for Elway to be no. 1, all things considered. But I think a solid case could be made for about 4-5 QBs. I just choose Montana because of my chosen qualifications.

It's all good, though. I was just yanking your chain about agenda (because you're pimping Manning ;)). You've got my respect even in disagreement, so it's all good.

Lol, i know & like you i just appreciate great football even though manning routinely gets in our home teams' ass.......*sighs* damn i can't wait until we can get there 1 day....

Double Barrel
04-13-2011, 04:53 PM
Lol, i know & like you i just appreciate great football even though manning routinely gets in our home teams' ass.......*sighs* damn i can't wait until we can get there 1 day....

You and me both, bro', without a doubt. The ReliantWorld GameDay Experience is fantastic and all, but it simply does not fill in the void of being a football fanatic for a perpetual mediocre team. Our day will come...just hope it's sooner than later.

Speaking of Rice with Montana/Young, can you imagine what AJ would be considered if he had Manning or Brady passing to him for the past 8 years? Maybe I'm going homer here, but I'd venture that he'd be considered no. 2 GOAT WR right behind Rice.

HOU-TEX
04-14-2011, 10:04 AM
VY's available and all he does is win, right. He could serve as Manning's fluffer until it's his time to shine

Mr teX
04-14-2011, 11:02 AM
You and me both, bro', without a doubt. The ReliantWorld GameDay Experience is fantastic and all, but it simply does not fill in the void of being a football fanatic for a perpetual mediocre team. Our day will come...just hope it's sooner than later.

Speaking of Rice with Montana/Young, can you imagine what AJ would be considered if he had Manning or Brady passing to him for the past 8 years? Maybe I'm going homer here, but I'd venture that he'd be considered no. 2 GOAT WR right behind Rice.

Easily imo. Just look at what he's considered right now without having played with an elite qb......ever. & when you compare his #'s to that of Moss & TO's, he's on their pace in everything....................except TD's.

It's a shame really & to a certain degree i do feel bad for him b/c even if he does win a SB here (:rolleyes:) or elsewhere someday, there is no doubt that his career, at least numbers wise, has been stunted b/c he's been playing for a perennial loser his entire career.

He's our version of barry sanders...........minus the playoff performances b/c we can't frickin' get there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:brickwall: