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ArlingtonTexan
04-04-2011, 12:10 PM
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/GM-Smith-Texans-preparing-for-month-of-draft-meetings/76bcff47-79ad-45ff-a0a2-36e90d8c48fd

Largely, a fluff piece with nothing earth shattering. The only I will pull out is his philosophy about player visits and drafting for need/bpa



Each NFL team can invite up to 30 players to their respective facilities for pre-draft visits. The Texans are looking for the same things in those visits that they were looking for at the Combine.

“You’re either checking something out medically or you are just wanting to spend a little bit more time and get a little bit better feel,” Smith said. “If you don’t think you’ve got a good feel on a particular player, then you bring him in and spend a little more time. It’s just, at that point, to validate something that you think you already know, or to clear up any kind of medical issues.”


Smith reiterated on Wednesday that it hasn’t affected how the Texans have set their draft board, and it won’t affect their strategy on draft weekend.

“We’ve said for years that you don’t draft for need,” he said. “If you get a need position in the draft, then that’s great. I think that it is a little odd and it’s backwards that typically you’ve filled your team, at least some of the positions of need, via free agency. But this year being a little bit different, it doesn’t change our approach with respect to how we approach the draft and filling the needs on our team.”

El Tejano
04-04-2011, 12:20 PM
That answers alot of questions for me. Thanks.

nero THE zero
04-04-2011, 12:34 PM
I read an article from a former Bears scout talking about the draft process and the amount of disinformation at this point in the process. He said he would vary it up every year. Some years he would only bring in guys they were interested in. Some years he would only bring in guys they weren't interested in. Some years he would only bring in guys, as Smith suggests, they had incomplete information on.

If he was asked about specific players, he would only make positive comments on guys he didn't like and no comment on guys he did like. If asked about a medical concern, it was always a medical concern. If asked about a player's draft projection, the player was always projected a round later.

He also made it a point that this is the way of "experienced guys" and emphasized the importance of having experienced guys in the draft process. So, I don't know how much Smith adheres to this philosophy, but I don't know that I'd take much of it with more than a grain of salt.

IDEXAN
04-04-2011, 12:47 PM
It's downright insulting for the Texans GM to tell us they don't draft for need, when everybody who knows anything about the Texans knows that atleast 2 of their top picks since Smith has been here, Duane Brown and Kareem Jackson, were based much more on need than what the available talent was on the Board when the Texans picked in the first round in each of those 2 Drafts.

OzzO
04-04-2011, 12:51 PM
Maybe I'm not following, but doesn't "We’ve said for years that you don’t draft for need" counter the "we build through the draft" statements heard in the past? When building a team, don't you work on areas to improve / needs?

ArlingtonTexan
04-04-2011, 01:04 PM
I don't know the last time I heard a GM or scout or coach not say we draft BPA or mostly use tape as our evalution. In terms of strategy, he has to at least leave the door open for some odd draft pick or so that teams with needs at the same position don't just jump in front of them.

ArlingtonTexan
04-04-2011, 01:09 PM
Maybe I'm not following, but doesn't "We’ve said for years that you don’t draft for need" counter the "we build through the draft" statements heard in the past? When building a team, don't you work on areas to improve / needs?

Actually, the BPA pure theory says, it is the secondary concern. This has some age to it, but does a good job of getting at BPA theory and kinda why we fans think "wrongly" about how a team approaches stuff.



http://www.gbnreport.com/drafttheories.htm

Dutchrudder
04-04-2011, 01:32 PM
It's downright insulting for the Texans GM to tell us they don't draft for need, when everybody who knows anything about the Texans knows that atleast 2 of their top picks since Smith has been here, Duane Brown and Kareem Jackson, were based much more on need than what the available talent was on the Board when the Texans picked in the first round in each of those 2 Drafts.

BPA and need drafting are not necessarily mutually exclusive. I know this is just beating a dead horse around here, but the fact is that different people evaluate players differently. The Texans big board might actually rate a LT at a bit of a premium due to the need, so they push him up the board before the draft, which makes him the BPA at the time. They might consider things like the scheme he played in college (see every CSU player drafted), and give him extra points for that. So while others may see a guy like Brown with raw talent scored as an 89 overall, his prior knowledge and experience of a similar scheme may bump him up to a 92 on the Texans board.

I think that's why they went with Jackson last year and we heard all about the 'most NFL ready corner', because they put a premium on that in evaluating him. So according to their board they went "BPA", while filling a need, but in reality they are drafting based on needs due to the way they evaluate players - if that is in fact how their evaluation process works...

Ole Miss Texan
04-04-2011, 02:00 PM
Actually, the BPA pure theory says, it is the secondary concern. This has some age to it, but does a good job of getting at BPA theory and kinda why we fans think "wrongly" about how a team approaches stuff.

http://www.gbnreport.com/drafttheories.htm

I'm glad you posted this. I remember reading this when I first starting getting into the draft, and it's something that I've always agreed with.

As fans, we're so fixated on filling weaknesses and trying to find quick fixes that it's easy to lose sight of the big picture and that is building the best possible team.

I love the example they use in the BPA description and that is taking the WR. Another reason why I like Julio Jones and would completely support his selection over most other players, including an OLB that's rated lower than him (even though OLB is a bigger need).

I also really believe in the 'build from strength' idea... a reason why I think a JJ Watt or Cameron Jordan could be a very solid selection. If we can build a Super Unit along the DL, it causes such a ripple effect that only helps the rest of the team. We can't just have one elite player that a team focuses on but a Unit that forces the opposing team to game plan around. Having a TE constantly in to help block, or a RB in to block, etc.... that helps our LBs in coverage situations (1 less player to cover) as well as our secondary.

disaacks3
04-04-2011, 02:05 PM
It's downright insulting for the Texans GM to tell us they don't draft for need, when everybody who knows anything about the Texans knows that atleast 2 of their top picks since Smith has been here, Duane Brown and Kareem Jackson, were based much more on need than what the available talent was on the Board when the Texans picked in the first round in each of those 2 Drafts. Maybe they think their fanbase is rather....uhm....slow?

BPA and need drafting are not necessarily mutually exclusive. I know this is just beating a dead horse around here, but the fact is that different people evaluate players differently. The Texans big board might actually rate a LT at a bit of a premium due to the need, so they push him up the board before the draft, which makes him the BPA at the time. They might consider things like the scheme he played in college (see every CSU player drafted), and give him extra points for that. So while others may see a guy like Brown with raw talent scored as an 89 overall, his prior knowledge and experience of a similar scheme may bump him up to a 92 on the Texans board.

I think that's why they went with Jackson last year and we heard all about the 'most NFL ready corner', because they put a premium on that in evaluating him. So according to their board they went "BPA", while filling a need, but in reality they are drafting based on needs due to the way they evaluate players - if that is in fact how their evaluation process works... To me, that's simply "justifying" a NEED move by moving guys up more slots than they deserve. I'm NOT buying that the Texans don't draft for need...and I expect more of the same this year. In the Texans current state-of-affairs (and our sorry FA results), drafting for need is actually the right thing to do.

ArlingtonTexan
04-04-2011, 02:09 PM
Couple of blogs/articles on BPA and draft theories

http://dallascowboystimes.com/2011/03/why-selecting-best-player-available-in-nfl-draft-a-myth/

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2011/3/21/2063069/dallas-cowboys-draft-strategies-pt-1-bpa-vs-need

Wolf6151
04-04-2011, 02:17 PM
If they've been using the draft BPA strategy (which I don't believe), then they need to start using the draft for need strategy because what they've been doing hasn't been working.

ArlingtonTexan
04-04-2011, 02:21 PM
I said something similar in another thread, but I think that the Texans draft the "best player who fits a need" in the early part of the draft (I estimate through round 3). Once 4th round or so hits, that when the picks look more like pure BPA (insert your own TE, CBs who can't play or Colorado State joke).

Dutchrudder
04-04-2011, 02:34 PM
To me, that's simply "justifying" a NEED move by moving guys up more slots than they deserve. I'm NOT buying that the Texans don't draft for need...and I expect more of the same this year. In the Texans current state-of-affairs (and our sorry FA results), drafting for need is actually the right thing to do.

Oh, I'm not justifying it, I'm just speculating on how Rick can claim BPA drafting given his track record. We never actually see the big board they use, so it's nearly impossible to contend that they do or don't generally draft BPA.

My point is that evaluations are generally subjective, and there are all sorts of ways to move players up and down your board. A mid-round guard that looks great on paper, but may not do well in run-blocking for a ZBS, might get a lower grade than a guy like Shelley Smith, who has the experience. So really, if a GM says they are drafting on BPA, I believe them to an extent - in the same way I believe Rick Perry when he says he lowered property taxes while in office, but neglects the concerted effort to increase appraisal values across the board.

Hottoddie
04-04-2011, 02:49 PM
I also really believe in the 'build from strength' idea... a reason why I think a JJ Watt or Cameron Jordan could be a very solid selection. If we can build a Super Unit along the DL, it causes such a ripple effect that only helps the rest of the team. We can't just have one elite player that a team focuses on but a Unit that forces the opposing team to game plan around. Having a TE constantly in to help block, or a RB in to block, etc.... that helps our LBs in coverage situations (1 less player to cover) as well as our secondary.


I'm of the opinion that CB, OLB or NT should be our 1st round pick. I'm a firm believer that you select the BPA for a position of need. If #11 is too high to select someone like Phil Taylor, then you trade down to the pick he's worthy of. As for getting equal value for the #11 pick, I've always had an issue with adhering to the point value chart for draft picks. For instance, do you have to get 3000 points for the #1 overall pick if you're able to trade down to #15, get the player you truely want & pick up an extra 2nd or 3rd round pick in the process? I don't think so.

However, your argument is one of the few I've read that makes sense. I like JJ Watt & wouldn't be disappointed if we drafted him at #11. If we're able to get a solid NT like Powe or Ellis in a later round then the line won't have a gaping hole in the middle of it & these stud DE's should be well rested & able to constantly put all kinds of pressure on the offense. That alone would improve our secondary by robbing the opposing offense of 2-3 seconds to make a play. That would be huge. You've made a great point.

As for WR, I can't see any possible argument that would justify the Texans taking a WR with the #11 pick in this year's draft, no matter how good he might be. Our offense has been the #3 offense in the NFL for the last 2 years & has finally gotten a running game that they can count on. The offense doesn't need an impact player as desperately as the defense does.

Ole Miss Texan
04-04-2011, 03:22 PM
As for WR, I can't see any possible argument that would justify the Texans taking a WR with the #11 pick in this year's draft, no matter how good he might be. Our offense has been the #3 offense in the NFL for the last 2 years & has finally gotten a running game that they can count on. The offense doesn't need an impact player as desperately as the defense does.
I don't think WR is an area of particular need but I do think it could be upgraded and not be considered a luxury. I'd definitely prefer we go defense early and often and I don't look to target a WR in the first few rounds UNLESS it's Julio Jones. I really think highly of him and think he fits exactly what we want in a WR. This is a perfect example of BPA vs. Need, IMO. Say I have him rated a 9 and the best OLB is an 8.

Although our offense has been excellent at moving the ball, we could definitely stand to score more. We've been 3rd or 4th best in the league in yards per game. But the past 2 seasons hovered around 10 overall in scoring at 24 pts. Elite offenses score closer to 30 a game. I don't think we'll truly be elite until we can score "at will" and a Julio/Andre combo with Daniels over the middle and the threat of Foster breaking 200 yard games would take us close to 30pts a game and be truly elite.

Then add in some defensive picks by Wade in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th that could all potentially impact... a veteran FA once free agency opens up, proper coaching by one of the best in the business and our defense, at worst, becomes "respectable" and isn't the leagues 29th worst in pts/game.

I think Julio might be a combination of the "Best Player Available" and "Draft to Strength" drafting mentality. If even available, I'd suspect he'd be the highest rated on my board and, if selected, would create a ton of opportunities for our offense to create mismatches. Defense would have to stay spread out in coverage to deal with Andre, Julio, Walter, Daniels. Could open up even more lanes for Foster.

For the record, I'm not against the BPA method at an area of need at all. I think Duane Brown is a perfect example there and I do like that pick. Like you said, if we could trade down, gain another selection or two and still pick up our targeted player... that would be excellent value.

IDEXAN
04-04-2011, 04:22 PM
I really don't why the Texans (and teams in general) just don't say something like, "we're going to draft the player(s) that help our team the most at this time", instead of coming up with this baloney about we have a philosophy of taking the BPA ? It's almost like it's a PC-type response ?

gary
04-04-2011, 04:59 PM
I am of the opinion that if I have information that a player has better stats than the guy you were targeting and he is still on the board then you draft that guy unless you feel you have a good enough to coach up the player who might just need a little extra help.

ArlingtonTexan
04-04-2011, 05:08 PM
I really don't why the Texans (and teams in general) just don't say something like, "we're going to draft the player(s) that help our team the most at this time", instead of coming up with this baloney about we have a philosophy of taking the BPA ? It's almost like it's a PC-type response ?


Well, the next questions will be

"How does the team determine which player will help more?" (We will take the one we think is better).

"What if there are have players at two positions that you like, how does the figure out which one to pick?" (We will take the one we think is better).


In a lot of ways, it is easier to tell the lie that everybody is familair. No extra explaining is needed and asker just moves on to the next question.

BTW, you are right to judge Rick Smith's actual philosophy by his drafting actions, since every NFL team takes BPA (let them tell it).

wildroot
04-04-2011, 05:14 PM
The problem with drafting the BPA is that you can go for years without addressing your "need" positions. Never have understood that phiosophy. If for example you go into the draft needing a RB, CB and OT then for crying out loud draft the best one available when it's your turn to pick! Don't pick a LB cause he's the BPA when you're stacked at that position!

Ole Miss Texan
04-04-2011, 05:19 PM
I am of the opinion that if I have information that a player has better stats than the guy you were targeting and he is still on the board then you draft that guy unless you feel you have a good enough to coach up the player who might just need a little extra help.
I think there is just so many variables that stats are incredibly misleading and these guys face so many different kinds of competition, you can't make 1 sack against division II equal to 1 sack against the best LT in college. I think if you just viewed stats then there would be zero reason for scouts to watch gamefilm and I want my hometown team doing nothing but watching gamefilm on these guys and finding out about their character.

I'd rather a DE/OLB that has 4 sacks on the season but was constantly taking on double teams that opened things up for his teammates; or was able to shed those blocks and tackle the ball carrier; etc.... than a DE/OLB that faced inferior competition and had 10 sacks.

gary
04-04-2011, 05:24 PM
I think there is just so many variables that stats are incredibly misleading and these guys face so many different kinds of competition, you can't make 1 sack against division II equal to 1 sack against the best LT in college. I think if you just viewed stats then there would be zero reason for scouts to watch gamefilm and I want my hometown team doing nothing but watching gamefilm on these guys and finding out about their character.

I'd rather a DE/OLB that has 4 sacks on the season but was constantly taking on double teams that opened things up for his teammates; or was able to shed those blocks and tackle the ball carrier; etc.... than a DE/OLB that faced inferior competition and had 10 sacks.I don't mean just stats alone but also flim, workouts, ect. I should have made it more clear.

Lucky
04-04-2011, 07:16 PM
I said something similar in another thread, but I think that the Texans draft the "best player who fits a need" in the early part of the draft (I estimate through round 3)..
Exactly. There's no way Kareem Jackson was the "Best Player Available" when the Texans drafted at #20. They had to have a CB. Everyone knew it. A year later and they still need a CB. Or two.


BTW, you are right to judge Rick Smith's actual philosophy by his drafting actions, since every NFL team takes BPA (let them tell it).
It's all B.S. Just look at last year's 1st round, when the Giants, Cowboys, and the Colts actually didn't draft for need. Of course, sometimes need and BPA meet. And sometimes, a team is so talent deficient that just about any position is needed.

Are the Texans talent deficient at DE? Or WR? I don't think so. And again, the talent available at the Texans need position is not inferior to what is avialable at WR or 5 technique DE.

CloakNNNdagger
04-04-2011, 09:39 PM
Smith said that the Texans’ draft board won’t change much between now and then.

“(That’s) because the bulk of our evaluation, and we believe that this is the right approach, is based on football, the resume that he’s put on the field,” he said. “And so that is the major portion of it: What kind of football player is he? And that evaluation has already obviously been done.

.................after we've weeded out all the great players with a mark in detention or a jay-walking citation.

Hottoddie
04-04-2011, 09:45 PM
I just wish the draft would hurry up & get here. 3-1/2 weeks to go. :d: I've got two blanks in my signature that need to be filled in. :D

Corrosion
04-04-2011, 11:31 PM
Im not too confident in Smiths draft preperation .... They havent really nailed a pick in recent memory.

The fans might need some Preperation H after they screw this draft up and give us another season like the last one ..... $8 beer's , $10 nacho's and the worst defense in a decade to go along with a 6-10 season.

dalemurphy
04-05-2011, 12:08 AM
Im not too confident in Smiths draft preperation .... They havent really nailed a pick in recent memory.
The fans might need some Preperation H after they screw this draft up and give us another season like the last one ..... $8 beer's , $10 nacho's and the worst defense in a decade to go along with a 6-10 season.

including UDFA, the '09 class could end up being very good to great:

Cushing
Barwin
Caldwell
Quin
Casey
Nolan
AFoster
Jamison

Corrosion
04-05-2011, 12:27 AM
including UDFA, the '09 class could end up being very good to great:

Cushing
Barwin
Caldwell
Quin
Casey
Nolan
AFoster
Jamison

Maybe Im just blinded by another losing record and an increase in ticket prices ..... But honestly , what did anyone on that list outside of Foster and Quin really contribute to last seasons success .... other than Cushing getting suspended. Yeah , Nolan made a few plays and Jamison saw a bit of action ....


Cushing could return to form .... maybe.

Barwin might make a recovery and an impact .... maybe.

Caldwell may be the C of the future ... maybe.

Nolan might work out at one of the S spots .... or just continue to play ST. Thats better than nuttin.

Quin had a good season .... but the coaching staff / FO might move him and screw up two positions in the process.

Foster had a hell of a year .... can he repeat it - Where the hell is his FB and why didnt they ink him ASAP. But he wasnt drafted and we were talkin about the draft , if they saw so much in him why did he slide by so many teams to become a UDFA ? Homerun as a UDFA but a swing and a miss by .... every team in the draft.

Jamison - does he fit the 3-4 or .... :rake:

HJam72
04-05-2011, 01:03 AM
If they do draft a player for need, the first thing they're going to say is, "He was the Best Player Available," whether it's true or not.

ObsiWan
04-05-2011, 01:06 AM
The problem with drafting the BPA is that you can go for years without addressing your "need" positions. Never have understood that phiosophy. If for example you go into the draft needing a RB, CB and OT then for crying out loud draft the best one available when it's your turn to pick! Don't pick a LB cause he's the BPA when you're stacked at that position!

The problem with we fans is that we like to think it's as simple as insert top RB, CB, or OT into that slot and problem solved. We can all name examples where that didn't really work.

Suppose, to use your example your team needs to upgrade those three spots but the BPA is a WR, LB, or DE. Doesn't it depend on how much of a talent drop-off between the "BPA" and the guys still on the board that fit your need spots?? Say it's round 2 and the best available CB or OT left on the board grade out with low 3rd or top 4th round grades because the few studs at your need positions got snapped up in round one (don't say it can't happen; remember the 1st rd run on OTs when we drafted Duane Brown?) Anyway, the two BPAs are a stud OLB and a solid WR - steals or at least solid 2nd round talent level. Is it really wise to reach one or two rounds and address that need?

Will the CB or OT left on the board (remember they graded out as 3rd/4th rd picks by the draftnik talking heads) have enough to beat out who you have in place? Do the CB or OT fit your system? Did the best OT available come from a run-first college offense when you run a pass-happy offense?

Personally, I'd be on the phone looking to trade down in this example. But if no trade down opportunity shows up I'd be more apt to pick the stud - who I feel could possibly start and certainly contribute - than to reach and pick the "need" guy who may be only marginally better, if that, than who I've got.

All that to say, I don't think it's always as straightforward as we like to think it is.
:texflag:

IDEXAN
04-05-2011, 06:59 AM
The problem with drafting the BPA is that you can go for years without addressing your "need" positions.
And conversely, by passing the BPA(s) on its Board year after year a team is addressing its short-term needs each year while populating it's roster over the long-term with inferior talent.

TEXANRED
04-05-2011, 07:08 AM
Rick Smith's preparation consists of one large bowl of popcorn and watching Mel Kiper Jr in high def while copying down his big board. Once thats done he cuts out the names, throws them in a hat and who ever he draws from said hat we draft.

Rumor has it that it's the talking hat from those Harry Potter movies.

Blake
04-05-2011, 07:25 AM
BS. Teams draft for need. Including Rick Smith. We needed a RB, here comes Ben Tate. We needed a cornerback, here comes Kareem Jackson.

HOU-TEX
04-05-2011, 08:24 AM
including UDFA, the '09 class could end up being very good to great:

Cushing
Barwin
Caldwell
Quin
Casey
Nolan
AFoster
Jamison

Key word "could". This group hasn't proven jack squat. Cushing and Foster did it one year. I like them both, but they aren't there yet. Barwin had a serious injury. Caldwell coundn't win the RG position. Quin, our best CB, has been average at best. Casey's a STer and rotation TE. Jamison, your new man-crush, hasn't done jack.

dalemurphy
04-05-2011, 08:44 AM
Key word "could". This group hasn't proven jack squat. Cushing and Foster did it one year. I like them both, but they aren't there yet. Barwin had a serious injury. Caldwell coundn't win the RG position. Quin, our best CB, has been average at best. Casey's a STer and rotation TE. Jamison, your new man-crush, hasn't done jack.

"could" was the word I chose.... Most drafts that are only two years old are going to be full of players that have shown promise, had a good season, but haven't "proven jack squat", as you put it.... especially when one of the seasons have been an utter disappointment for the team.

Jamison had 2 sacks and a number of pressures in very limited playing time late in the year.

Foster and Cushing have both been the best player at their position in the NFL for one of their two seasons.

Caldwell heavily participated in, by far, the best OLine in the AFC south last season.

Quin, a 4th round pick, was very good as a rookie and still solid (despite the fiasco in the secondary) last season.

Casey has looked good in his limited opportunities and has a special skill set.

Nolan, in his one year, quickly became our best safety (not much worth bragging about, I realize)

Barwin is going to be great, barring further injury issues... mark it down.

Ole Miss Texan
04-05-2011, 08:49 AM
Key word "could". This group hasn't proven jack squat. Cushing and Foster did it one year. I like them both, but they aren't there yet. Barwin had a serious injury. Caldwell coundn't win the RG position. Quin, our best CB, has been average at best. Casey's a STer and rotation TE. Jamison, your new man-crush, hasn't done jack.

Cushing was Defensive Rookie of the Year and made the Pro Bowl in 2009.

Foster was the NFL's leading rusher this past year and made the Pro Bowl in 2010.

Barwin led all rookie DE's in sacks his rookie season, then got injured.

Caldwell, while not nailing down a starting spot, has provided quality depth and rotated in when needed.

Glover has contributed well to this team since he got here. Perfectly fits the nickle role he was originally drafted for and may even convert to FS and be able to cover slot receivers at the line next year.

Casey - I don't think you can ask for a better 3rd string TE, and he was a 5th round pick.

Nolan - A guy that has a ton of upside and witnessed increased snaps last year. That's all you can ask for in a 7th rounder.


Should, could, or has... that has already turned out to be an above-average draft. Teams would love to hit on 2-3 picks and there's no doubt we've done that... including 2 pro bowlers.

GP
04-05-2011, 09:41 AM
Cushing was Defensive Rookie of the Year and made the Pro Bowl in 2009.

Foster was the NFL's leading rusher this past year and made the Pro Bowl in 2010.

Barwin led all rookie DE's in sacks his rookie season, then got injured.

Caldwell, while not nailing down a starting spot, has provided quality depth and rotated in when needed.

Glover has contributed well to this team since he got here. Perfectly fits the nickle role he was originally drafted for and may even convert to FS and be able to cover slot receivers at the line next year.

Casey - I don't think you can ask for a better 3rd string TE, and he was a 5th round pick.

Nolan - A guy that has a ton of upside and witnessed increased snaps last year. That's all you can ask for in a 7th rounder.


Should, could, or has... that has already turned out to be an above-average draft. Teams would love to hit on 2-3 picks and there's no doubt we've done that... including 2 pro bowlers.

I am going to stamp my unprofessional approval upon every player you listed, with the exception of Barwin and Casey.

I can't really debate Barwin very well, basically since he didn't have a 2010 season to debate on here. I am eager to see what he does now, but I just can't begin to say that he has already proven to be a solid pick (yet). I know we have the whole "he was leading all DE rookies in sacks" thing, but I wanted to see what he did in his sophomore season to see if that rookie season was legit or a fluke. I actually think he can excel even more in a 3-4 under Wade Phillips, so he's one of the main guys I'm watching this year to see if it happens. Therefore, I will say that I think he CAN be on your list, I can see reasons why, but I still need to see one more season for myself.

James Casey is a player whom I think is JAG (just a guy). Does he run a route? Yes. Does he catch the ball? Yes. Can he block? Yes, and I've seen him put out some brutal blocks on defenders. But I don't see the breakaway, big play, distance-himself-from-the-crowd output that I expected of him. I want him to be that Dallas Clark kinda' guy; the guy you just don't want to cover and who can lower is shoulder and bulldoze people for extra yards. I'm not sure that him being a great 3rd string TE is proof that he was a good pick. I was hoping he would challenge and maybe even seriously contend for the starting TE job. As seasons go by, he looks more and more like JAG to me.

Until then, I don't think James Casey deserves to be on the list.

Troy Nolan has shown flashes, to me, but I again want to see what he does THIS season.

Anyways, just my thoughts on your post.

Ole Miss Texan
04-05-2011, 09:44 AM
James Casey is a player whom I think is JAG (just a guy). Does he run a route? yes. Does he catch the ball? Yes. Can he block? Yes, and I've seen him put out some brutal blocks on defenders. But I don't see the breakaway, big play, distance-himself-from-the-crowd output that I expected of him. I want him to be that Dallas Clark kinda' guy; the guy you just don't want to cover and who can lower is shoulder and bulldoze people for extra yards.

Until then, I don't think James Casey deserves to be on the list.

Troy Nolan has shown flashes, to me, whereas I haven't seen that from James Casey, otherwise I would debate Troy Nolan on your list.

Anyways, just my thoughts on your post.
Thanks, I don't disagree one bit. It really really sucks Barwin got injured because I think he can be a HUGE part of this teams success.

In regards to Casey and Nolan... they were 5th and 7th round selections, respectively. Worst case scenario I think they provide quality depth. I don't expect Rick Smith nor any other GM to be able to draft the Dallas Clarks with every selection in the draft.

HOU-TEX
04-05-2011, 09:47 AM
"could" was the word I chose.... Most drafts that are only two years old are going to be full of players that have shown promise, had a good season, but haven't "proven jack squat", as you put it.... especially when one of the seasons have been an utter disappointment for the team.

Jamison had 2 sacks and a number of pressures in very limited playing time late in the year.

Foster and Cushing have both been the best player at their position in the NFL for one of their two seasons.

Caldwell heavily participated in, by far, the best OLine in the AFC south last season.

Quin, a 4th round pick, was very good as a rookie and still solid (despite the fiasco in the secondary) last season.

Casey has looked good in his limited opportunities and has a special skill set.

Nolan, in his one year, quickly became our best safety (not much worth bragging about, I realize)

Barwin is going to be great, barring further injury issues... mark it down.

Cushing was Defensive Rookie of the Year and made the Pro Bowl in 2009.

Foster was the NFL's leading rusher this past year and made the Pro Bowl in 2010.

Barwin led all rookie DE's in sacks his rookie season, then got injured.

Caldwell, while not nailing down a starting spot, has provided quality depth and rotated in when needed.

Glover has contributed well to this team since he got here. Perfectly fits the nickle role he was originally drafted for and may even convert to FS and be able to cover slot receivers at the line next year.

Casey - I don't think you can ask for a better 3rd string TE, and he was a 5th round pick.

Nolan - A guy that has a ton of upside and witnessed increased snaps last year. That's all you can ask for in a 7th rounder.


Should, could, or has... that has already turned out to be an above-average draft. Teams would love to hit on 2-3 picks and there's no doubt we've done that... including 2 pro bowlers.

Y'all both basically reiterated what I posted. The only difference is y'all sound sold on players performing well for one year, I'm not.

*edit* BTW, just to clear this up before I get ripped. I really like Foster, Cushing, Casey, Quin and especially Barwin.

GP
04-05-2011, 09:51 AM
Worst case scenario I think they provide quality depth. I don't expect Rick Smith nor any other GM to be able to draft the Dallas Clarks with every selection in the draft.

True, true.

Maybe it was MY expectations that James Casey would evolve into a star caliber of player that is wrong here. And, some guys are late bloomers too.

I guess when we frame it with the "He was a 5th round pick" it kinda' puts it into better perspective. We have had more actual gameday output by this 5th round player out of Rice than we had out of a 1st round defensive lineman from Florida State who is no longer here. So there's THAT to think about.

gary
04-05-2011, 09:54 AM
Fire Rick Smith ok someone had to do it so here it is.

wildroot
04-05-2011, 05:28 PM
Suppose, to use your example your team needs to upgrade those three spots but the BPA is a WR, LB, or DE. Doesn't it depend on how much of a talent drop-off between the "BPA" and the guys still on the board that fit your need spots?? Say it's round 2 and the best available CB or OT left on the board grade out with low 3rd or top 4th round grades because the few studs at your need positions got snapped up in round one (don't say it can't happen; remember the 1st rd run on OTs when we drafted Duane Brown?) Anyway, the two BPAs are a stud OLB and a solid WR - steals or at least solid 2nd round talent level. Is it really wise to reach one or two rounds and address that need?

:texflag:

I dunno...I hear what you're saying but I find it hard to believe that if you've identified 3-5 need positions, that you can't find one of those needs within a few spots of where you're pick falls.

I'd rather grab a player a few spots early than take a BPA at LB and have him backup Ryans and Cushing for the next 5 years. The fact that we'd take someone a FEW PICKS early ought not cause too many ripples what with Gary's history of "reaching" on players in some cases a round or two before they were projected.

ArlingtonTexan
04-05-2011, 05:55 PM
I dunno...I hear what you're saying but I find it hard to believe that if you've identified 3-5 need positions, that you can't find one of those needs within a few spots of where you're pick falls.

I'd rather grab a player a few spots early than take a BPA at LB and have him backup Ryans and Cushing for the next 5 years. The fact that we'd take someone a FEW PICKS early ought not cause too many ripples what with Gary's history of "reaching" on players in some cases a round or two before they were projected.


Honestly, this is what happens more than not. In most cases, when a team is on the clock there are several players in a bunch say rated between 86-88. Here you just take the need player and move on even if the need player is 86.

The issues come when by your grading system there is a player who is a 94 sitting there. This player is CLEARLY better than the bunch. this is when BPA theory says take the guy at a so-called non-need position.

Texecutioner
04-05-2011, 06:35 PM
[QUOTE=dalemurphy;1675152]including UDFA, the '09 class could end up being very good to great:[QUOTE]

My responses are in red.


Cushing - Had a great first season and then was caught for PED's,because he wanted to give birth to a child or whatever the popular excuse is now around here. He was a shell of his former self when he returned last season. What he does next year is anyone's guess.

Barwin - Barwin hasn't done jack yet other than to show potential and a few flashy plays. He hasn't even been a starter for heaven's sake, so please (Not just you) stop acting like he's already a pro bowler when he played one rookie season and the coaching staff didn't even make him a starter. Last year he got hurt, but before annointing him as a pro bowler let the guy show that he's worth all the hype that he's been getting around here.

Caldwell - He's a decent O lineman and nothing more. Why is he on this list?

Quin - He's the best CB on one of the worst secondaries I've ever seen. That's not a compliment. He's a decent enough nickel corner that can hit, but he's nothing to toot the horn of the Texans GM.

Casey - How the hell does he make this list? Casey has been a completely worthless draft pick. Another guy that was given ridiculous hype in here that hasn't matched any of it. To his defense the coaching staff hardly lets him play, but this was a wasted pick, since the coaches don't hardly ever use him.
Nolan

AFoster - UDFA. As much credit that I might give the coaches for him I'll take just as much of it away considering the fact that we benched him his entire first season for Chris Brown and Steve Slaton and we were 3 running plays away from being in the playoffs, but Chris Brown ruined 3 different times.

Jamison- This guy hasn't done jack. Why is he on this list at all?

Mr. White
04-05-2011, 06:48 PM
Rick Smith's preparation consists of one large bowl of popcorn and watching Mel Kiper Jr in high def while copying down his big board. Once thats done he cuts out the names, throws them in a hat and who ever he draws from said hat we draft.

Rumor has it that it's the talking hat from those Harry Potter movies.

Looks to me like his preparation consists of reading John McClain's articles in the week leading up to the draft.

ChampionTexan
04-05-2011, 06:57 PM
Looks to me like his preparation consists of reading John McClain's articles in the week leading up to the draft.

Nah - given how poorly McClain's been able to predict the Texans draft in recent years, that's actually the one thing we know he's not doing.

HJam72
04-06-2011, 12:33 AM
Regarding guys not playing (unless they're injured), this coaching staff (as of our last game) has had a serious problem with waiting way too long to notice potential starters. It's very likely that many D players are either not being used correctly, not taught correctly (which isn't necessarily the same thing), not used nearly enough because somebody else is on the field that shouldn't be, or any combination.

Our last DC was just a guy who moved up from the staff before (which sucked) and really wasn't going to change much or improve anything because of that, and I'm hoping that a DC with a pedigree and EXPERIENCE like Phillips will "see the light." He has already mentioned players as either not playing enough or not being put in the best positions to succeed.

The problem is one with Kubiak as well, but it took both Kubiak AND whatever DC to not see it on the D side for it to continue on that side. I don't think Phillips will let that problem continue. I wonder if every HC in the NFL is as clueless on the "other" side of the ball and it takes a really good OC or DC, depending on the HC's clueless "side" to win in this league. I know Kubiak is no exception. He won't win without a really good DC, at least for a LONG time. That's OK as long as we have one.

Corrosion
04-06-2011, 12:59 AM
Regarding guys not playing (unless they're injured), this coaching staff (as of our last game) has had a serious problem with waiting way too long to notice potential starters. It's very likely that many D players are either not being used correctly, not taught correctly (which isn't necessarily the same thing), not used nearly enough because somebody else is on the field that shouldn't be, or any combination.

Our last DC was just a guy who moved up from the staff before (which sucked) and really wasn't going to change much or improve anything because of that, and I'm hoping that a DC with a pedigree and EXPERIENCE like Phillips will "see the light." He has already mentioned players as either not playing enough or not being put in the best positions to succeed.

The problem is one with Kubiak as well, but it took both Kubiak AND whatever DC to not see it on the D side for it to continue on that side. I don't think Phillips will let that problem continue. I wonder if every HC in the NFL is as clueless on the "other" side of the ball and it takes a really good OC or DC, depending on the HC's clueless "side" to win in this league. I know Kubiak is no exception. He won't win without a really good DC, at least for a LONG time. That's OK as long as we have one.

Just gotta nitpick a bit ....

How quickly many forget it was that same DC who "Fixed" that defense the year before ..... after three games they were the worst in the NFL and finished very respectably.
Most expected the improvement to continue which is why we had such high hopes for last season .... It didnt , it went to **** and so did the season.

Ole Miss Texan
04-06-2011, 09:03 AM
[QUOTE=dalemurphy] including UDFA, the '09 class could end up being very good to great:[QUOTE]

My responses are in red. See the bolded above, "could end up being very good to great".


Cushing - Had a great first season and then was caught for PED's,because he wanted to give birth to a child or whatever the popular excuse is now around here. He was a shell of his former self when he returned last season. What he does next year is anyone's guess.The thing about Cushing for me is that he tested positive at the very beginning of his rookie season and was constantly tested thereafter. Now I don't know how long that stuff he took lasts and helps... but he played great all season even towards the end, while battling numerous injuries. While he definitely regressed his sophomore season, missing those first 4 games was a huge blow and hurt him... as did switching to MLB for 2 games. So he didn't really get in the swing of things to his comfortable self until midseason.

Barwin - Barwin hasn't done jack yet other than to show potential and a few flashy plays. He hasn't even been a starter for heaven's sake, so please (Not just you) stop acting like he's already a pro bowler when he played one rookie season and the coaching staff didn't even make him a starter. Last year he got hurt, but before annointing him as a pro bowler let the guy show that he's worth all the hype that he's been getting around here.True, he's shown potential, but lots of it as a pass rusher. HE wasn't drafted to be come out and be a full time DE and starter. He was drafted to be a pass rush specialist on passing downs. And with that he led all rookie DEs in sacks.

Caldwell - He's a decent O lineman and nothing more. Why is he on this list? He's on this list because he provides quality depth, is far from getting cut. It'd be nice if he was an all pro RG but he's not.... what a crappy draft pick I guess??

Quin - He's the best CB on one of the worst secondaries I've ever seen. That's not a compliment. He's a decent enough nickel corner that can hit, but he's nothing to toot the horn of the Texans GM. And that's exactly what he was drafted for. He's been forced into our #1 CB spot but he was drafted because they loved his ability to tackle and be the nickle corner.

Casey - How the hell does he make this list? Casey has been a completely worthless draft pick. Another guy that was given ridiculous hype in here that hasn't matched any of it. To his defense the coaching staff hardly lets him play, but this was a wasted pick, since the coaches don't hardly ever use him.
NolanCasey has been good on Special Teams. Another crappy draft pick I guess since he's not an All Pro TE?? He's a 5th rounder that's gotten playing time, made some great catches and contributes on STs... good for a 5th round pick.

AFoster - UDFA. As much credit that I might give the coaches for him I'll take just as much of it away considering the fact that we benched him his entire first season for Chris Brown and Steve Slaton and we were 3 running plays away from being in the playoffs, but Chris Brown ruined 3 different times. I don't blame them at all. Foster has said how that tough love has helped him. This isn't Madden where a player comes in and just performs well out of the gates. Sometimes players need time to develop, actually learn some stuff from the coaches, get their heads on straight, etc.

Jamison- This guy hasn't done jack. Why is he on this list at all?

See my responses in bold. Not every player is going to be a Pro Bowler but hell, we've got two out of them. The others fit in on this team and I don't see them getting cut. Sometimes you need depth and you can't expect every draft pick to come in and start immediately.

infantrycak
04-06-2011, 10:07 AM
The thing about Cushing for me is that he tested positive at the very beginning of his rookie season and was constantly tested thereafter. Now I don't know how long that stuff he took lasts and helps... but he played great all season even towards the end, while battling numerous injuries.

Just an FYI Ole Miss - what Cushing tested positive for isn't a PED. It is on the banned list as an adjunct used in recovery from steroid use.

Mr teX
04-06-2011, 10:16 AM
[QUOTE=Texecutioner;1675444][QUOTE=dalemurphy] including UDFA, the '09 class could end up being very good to great:
See my responses in bold. Not every player is going to be a Pro Bowler but hell, we've got two out of them. The others fit in on this team and I don't see them getting cut. Sometimes you need depth and you can't expect every draft pick to come in and start immediately.

rep your way. UDFA's rarely if ever come in and start. Furthermore, 1 of the reasons foster was an UDFA is b/c he had a questionable work ethic, attitude & injury issues coming off a disappointing senior season. He very well could've went the other way had the coaching staff inserted him immediately. If anything, you give the coaching staff credit for seeing that this guy could contribute early. Noone could've forseen what he did this past year. I predict that he'll come back to earth a little next year.

Ole Miss Texan
04-06-2011, 10:28 AM
Just an FYI Ole Miss - what Cushing tested positive for isn't a PED. It is on the banned list as an adjunct used in recovery from steroid use.
Yea that's true, I remember that (hCG). So going under the assumption that he actually DID use steroids... that likely would have occured preseason or just as the season started. He never tested positive for that but a non-PED that's linked to its usage. Anyways.... how long would steroids stay in your system once you get "cut off"? IIRC the test was from September and then he was tested regularly after that. Could steroids from Aug/Sept that never show up on any tests stay in your system through Sept/Oct/Nov/Dec and make you play like Hulk? I just don't fully buy the PED arguement being why Cushing was so good rookie season when he was monitored extremely closely the entire season and never failed a test. The timeline is what I always go back to.

Hottoddie
04-06-2011, 10:54 AM
[QUOTE=Texecutioner;1675444][QUOTE=dalemurphy] including UDFA, the '09 class could end up being very good to great:
See my responses in bold. Not every player is going to be a Pro Bowler but hell, we've got two out of them. The others fit in on this team and I don't see them getting cut. Sometimes you need depth and you can't expect every draft pick to come in and start immediately.

Amen

Corrosion
04-06-2011, 11:33 AM
Just an FYI Ole Miss - what Cushing tested positive for isn't a PED. It is on the banned list as an adjunct used in recovery from steroid use.

I thought it was a masking agent :thinking: .... still no PED but on the banned list none the less.

Edit: or was that Brown ?

infantrycak
04-06-2011, 11:55 AM
Yea that's true, I remember that (hCG). So going under the assumption that he actually DID use steroids... that likely would have occured preseason or just as the season started. He never tested positive for that but a non-PED that's linked to its usage. Anyways.... how long would steroids stay in your system once you get "cut off"? IIRC the test was from September and then he was tested regularly after that. Could steroids from Aug/Sept that never show up on any tests stay in your system through Sept/Oct/Nov/Dec and make you play like Hulk? I just don't fully buy the PED arguement being why Cushing was so good rookie season when he was monitored extremely closely the entire season and never failed a test. The timeline is what I always go back to.

Cloak and I had a bunch of discussions about this. Cushing tested negative for steroids both at the beginning of his rookie season and at the combine. I think our most likely conjecture was any PED use was well prior to the combine. So that is somewhat contrary to the rookie v. sophomore story line.

I thought it was a masking agent :thinking: .... still no PED but on the banned list none the less.

Edit: or was that Brown ?

hcg is not a masking agent. McClain just kept repeating that for some reason. It is supposed to kick start testosterone production which may have been diminished during a steroid cycle. In particular it is used by steroid users worried their golf balls are turning into marbles. I don't remember ever hearing specifically what Brown tested positive for.

ChampionTexan
04-06-2011, 12:23 PM
The thing about Cushing for me is that he tested positive at the very beginning of his rookie season and was constantly tested thereafter. Now I don't know how long that stuff he took lasts and helps... but he played great all season even towards the end, while battling numerous injuries.

The sad thing is, that's what I thought for a long time too, but it turns out the positive test that actually got him suspended happened in November of his rookie season - not before the season or early in the season:

[Update: 5/17: According to McClain, the facts most people are assuming about the test are wrong. He had measurable amounts of hCG in September but that wasn't a positive test because the B sample wasn't in high enough quantities. He had the true positive test (both A and B samples) in November.]

LINK (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2010/05/brian_cushing_confirmation_bia.html)

Texecutioner
04-06-2011, 12:33 PM
Yea that's true, I remember that (hCG). So going under the assumption that he actually DID use steroids... that likely would have occured preseason or just as the season started. He never tested positive for that but a non-PED that's linked to its usage. Anyways.... how long would steroids stay in your system once you get "cut off"? IIRC the test was from September and then he was tested regularly after that. Could steroids from Aug/Sept that never show up on any tests stay in your system through Sept/Oct/Nov/Dec and make you play like Hulk? I just don't fully buy the PED arguement being why Cushing was so good rookie season when he was monitored extremely closely the entire season and never failed a test. The timeline is what I always go back to.

Okay so it was a masking agent that's taken to cover up usage of PED's. It's the same thing to anyone who knows what athletes in the NFL take something like that for.

Cushing's been the poster boy for PED use, steroids, or whatever you'd like to call it since he was in HS. You don't have that much scrutiny and curiosity from coaches and scouts for nothing, and then all of a sudden after your first pro season test positive for a masking agent and call that a bunch of smoke where there was never a fire. That's being extremely naive and just making yourself not believe because he plays for the Texans. I'm a huge Cushing fan, but to act like he was just some victim that got railroaded or that he worked out to hard is laughable.

You can act like the suspension hurt him all you want or blame the move to MLB as well, but he wasn't as explosive last season. He didn't move sideline to sideline as well either, nor was he able to shed blockers as well. And this was all after his great MMA training he had been doing that was supposedly going to help him with that. Maybe he'll bounce back this season and return to full form. I wouldn't be surprised if he did, but I won't be surprised if he doesn't either. I've seen to many athletes have a drop in their production after being caught for PED's or for being exposed on taking these masking agents which are taken to hide PED usage to think that Cushing is just somehow to immortal for that. I think he'll be a very good player either way though. His football IQ is what I've always liked about him the most.

infantrycak
04-06-2011, 12:44 PM
Okay so it was a masking agent that's taken to cover up usage of PED's.

IT IS NOT A MASKING AGENT. Jesus how many times does that have to be said? Yes it points to steroid use. Not denying that but sheesh get the terminology correct. It does nothing to hide the use or presence of steroids, i.e. it is not a masking agent.

HOU-TEX
04-06-2011, 01:17 PM
HCG enhances the production of testosterone

Ole Miss Texan
04-06-2011, 01:20 PM
IT IS NOT A MASKING AGENT. Jesus how many times does that have to be said? Yes it points to steroid use. Not denying that but sheesh get the terminology correct. It does nothing to hide the use or presence of steroids, i.e. it is not a masking agent.
IIRC it is on the banned substance list because sometimes it can be used in conjunction with steroid use. It in and of itself is not a steroid, performance enhancing drug, nor is it a masking agent.

hCG helps increase testosterone levels. When an athlete takes steroids, testosterone levels can decrease... hCG will help build that back up. hCG DOES NOT "mask" steroids use though. In other words, if Cushing had taken steroids close to that test, the hCG that he tested above the league limits for would not have hidden the fact steroids were in his system.

I hope he bounces back next season. I worry with this layoff though that all the players will be slow to start. If they don't have mini-camp, practices, preseason, etc before the season starts its' going to be tough. I also really question the effectiveness of some rookies that will get thrown in without much time in the offseason to meet with coaches and practice the schemes.

HJam72
04-06-2011, 03:53 PM
Cloak and I had a bunch of discussions about this. Cushing tested negative for steroids both at the beginning of his rookie season and at the combine. I think our most likely conjecture was any PED use was well prior to the combine. So that is somewhat contrary to the rookie v. sophomore story line.



hcg is not a masking agent. McClain just kept repeating that for some reason. It is supposed to kick start testosterone production which may have been diminished during a steroid cycle. In particular it is used by steroid users worried their golf balls are turning into marbles. I don't remember ever hearing specifically what Brown tested positive for.

So maybe Cushing never used steroids and just has small nuts....or a nut size fetish or something. Please don't tell him I said that. :cutthroat:

Dutchrudder
04-06-2011, 03:59 PM
I wonder what happened to that SrslySirius guy. Rick Smith's draft preperation would be perfect for him to photoshop, just like Frank Bush's defesive schemes.

Corrosion
04-06-2011, 04:08 PM
I wonder what happened to that SrslySirius guy. Rick Smith's draft preperation would be perfect for him to photoshop, just like Frank Bush's defesive schemes.

:thinking:

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=646545224505&id=b3d9955bcd6aeeaa04c2cc6085644c23&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.speedysigns.com%2fimages%2fde cals%2fjpg%2fH%2f385%2f741.jpg



:rake::toropalm::rake:


:nolisten:

CloakNNNdagger
04-06-2011, 11:43 PM
Concerning the Cushing situation, keep in mind that the NFL is concerned about a player's steroid use well prior to a season's beginning. Although steroids may no longer be detectable after a relatively short period of time after cessation, it has been shown that some of its beneficial muscular effects may be there sometimes for months to years beyond the cessation.

Some of you may be interested in looking at this study. Here's an excerpt from the study Anabolic Steroids Provide A Competitive Edge In Power Lifting Years After Doping Has Ended (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080925072430.htm) published in October 2008.

Findings

The researchers found that several years after anabolic steroid withdrawal, and with no or low current strength-training, the muscle fiber area intensity, the number of nuclei per fiber in the quadriceps was still comparable to that of athletes that were currently performing high intensity strength-training. They also discovered that the shoulder-neck fiber areas were comparable to high-intensity trained athletes and the number of nuclei per fiber was even higher than found in the current steroid-using group.

Conclusions

According to the lead researcher, Dr. Eriksson, ”It is possible that the high number of nuclei we found in the muscle might be beneficial for an athlete who continues or resumes strength training because increased myonuclei opens up the possibility of increasing protein synthesis, which can lead to muscle mass.” He added, “Based on the characteristics between doped and non-doped power lifters, we conclude that a period of anabolic steroid usage is an advantage for a power lifter in competition, even several years after they stop taking a doping drug.”

In contrast, these times taken from different sources, reflect how long steroids are detectable when no masking agents are utilized.

4 days

Clenbuterol

1 week

Testosterone undecanoate

2 weeks

Testosterone propionate

3 weeks

oral Stanozolol
Oxandrolone - Anavar

5 weeks

Ethylestrenole
Mesterolone
Methandienone
Noretadrolone

2 months

Drostanolone propionate
Fluoxymesterone
Formebolone
injectable Stanozolol
Oxymetholone

3 months

Testosterone cypionate
Testosterone enanthate
Testosterone-mix (Sustanon & Omnadren)

5 months

Boldenone undecyclate injectable methandienone
Metehenolone enanthate
Trenbolone
Trenbolone acetate

12 months

Nandrolone phenylpropionate

18 months

Nandrolone decanoate

Norg
04-07-2011, 11:37 AM
o i thought he just picks names outta a Hat

or just picks any many miny mo style :toropalm:

or better yet just watches NFL network and lets them decide who da texans pick LOL

Second Honeymoon
04-07-2011, 01:40 PM
Rick Smith's draft preparation

1. Wake and bake with some sticky-icky and knock back 8 shots of Jagermeister
2. Prepare flawed rationalization of bad picks
3. Prepare a laundry list of excuses (he could just come to this board and get plenty)
4. Prepare to hide from media as usual
5. Prepare to get back up on Uncle Bob's lap
6. Prepare to fail again and again, as he has for half a decade now.

One day he needs to prepare his resume, and get his failure of a sorry excuse for a GM and get the hell out of our city and go work selling insurance or washing cars. That is about the only thing the guy is qualified before.

Dude has affirmative action hire written all over him. No credentials, no contacts, no track record of success, no success since taking over, YET he still has a job. I liked hiring a minority when they hired him, because there needs to be more minorities in management....HOWEVER, how about we give the jobs to guys that are actually qualified and capable....and its obvious to anyone with a pulse this guy is not qualified, in over his head, and incapable of doing anything to get this team on right track.

SMITHIAKNAIR, you suck.

GP
04-07-2011, 02:05 PM
Rick Smith's draft preparation

1. Wake and bake with some sticky-icky and knock back 8 shots of Jagermeister
2. Prepare flawed rationalization of bad picks
3. Prepare a laundry list of excuses (he could just come to this board and get plenty)
4. Prepare to hide from media as usual
5. Prepare to get back up on Uncle Bob's lap
6. Prepare to fail again and again, as he has for half a decade now.

:ohsnap:

Pulling no punches, eh?

djohn2oo8
04-07-2011, 02:10 PM
Wake up, put a blindfold on, and throw a dart at the players pictures. Or they could use their own "Wheel of fortune"

Corrosion
04-07-2011, 02:20 PM
Dude has affirmative action hire written all over him. No credentials, no contacts, no track record of success, no success since taking over, YET he still has a job. I liked hiring a minority when they hired him, because there needs to be more minorities in management....HOWEVER, how about we give the jobs to guys that are actually qualified and capable....and its obvious to anyone with a pulse this guy is not qualified, in over his head, and incapable of doing anything to get this team on right track.

SMITHIAKNAIR, you suck.

http://ryanexplainsitall.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/thats-racist.gif


In before Brakos :gamer:

GP
04-07-2011, 02:23 PM
In before Brakos :gamer:

I prefer the little girl eating watermelon, spinning a basketball on her finger, and wearing bling.

But hey, this kid is hilarious too.

HOU-TEX
04-07-2011, 02:25 PM
Rick Smith's draft preparation

1. Wake and bake with some sticky-icky and knock back 8 shots of Jagermeister
2. Prepare flawed rationalization of bad picks
3. Prepare a laundry list of excuses (he could just come to this board and get plenty)
4. Prepare to hide from media as usual
5. Prepare to get back up on Uncle Bob's lap
6. Prepare to fail again and again, as he has for half a decade now.

One day he needs to prepare his resume, and get his failure of a sorry excuse for a GM and get the hell out of our city and go work selling insurance or washing cars. That is about the only thing the guy is qualified before.

Dude has affirmative action hire written all over him. No credentials, no contacts, no track record of success, no success since taking over, YET he still has a job. I liked hiring a minority when they hired him, because there needs to be more minorities in management....HOWEVER, how about we give the jobs to guys that are actually qualified and capable....and its obvious to anyone with a pulse this guy is not qualified, in over his head, and incapable of doing anything to get this team on right track.



Have to admit, I lol'd

Corrosion
04-07-2011, 02:34 PM
I prefer the little girl eating watermelon, spinning a basketball on her finger, and wearing bling.

But hey, this kid is hilarious too.

I havent seen that one ..... :thinking:

dalemurphy
04-07-2011, 04:45 PM
Y'all both basically reiterated what I posted. The only difference is y'all sound sold on players performing well for one year, I'm not.

*edit* BTW, just to clear this up before I get ripped. I really like Foster, Cushing, Casey, Quin and especially Barwin.

Sounds like you agree that '09 was a very good draft.

HOU-TEX
04-07-2011, 04:52 PM
Sounds like you agree that '09 was a very good draft.

Not yet. They haven't proven much to date. I was speaking more of their potential.

Second Honeymoon
04-07-2011, 05:21 PM
This draft is going to be very unpredictable. Players are all over the place on people's draft boards.

I have always looked at production and the player's love of the game/competition when drafting. The measurables should only be used to re-affirm what you have seen on tape and to gauge players ability when they have played against lesser competition or are relatively new to the game or position.

It's hard to mock draft nowadays based on the early teams having so many needs. Hard to pinpoint.

The best defensive player I saw was Fairley and he is supposedly dropping due to questions of maturity and professionalism, so what do I know.

Corrosion
04-07-2011, 06:02 PM
This draft is going to be very unpredictable. Players are all over the place on people's draft boards.

I have always looked at production and the player's love of the game/competition when drafting. The measurables should only be used to re-affirm what you have seen on tape and to gauge players ability when they have played against lesser competition or are relatively new to the game or position.

It's hard to mock draft nowadays based on the early teams having so many needs. Hard to pinpoint.

The best defensive player I saw was Fairley and he is supposedly dropping due to questions of maturity and professionalism, so what do I know.

I think this draft is particularly difficult to mock for a many reasons.


First , there is no clear cut #1 player at those important positions generally see taken in the top of the draft - QB , DT , DE , LT. If you asked 8 GM's you would likely get 8 different answers.

Second , teams may be drafting for need with no FA period before the draft , this could really change the dynamics of this years selection process.
I think teams will be much more willing to reach on players at positions of need than in traditional seasons with FA prior to the draft.

The teams at the top have needs at several positions. If Carolina keeps the pick they could take one of at least six players - Gabbert , Newton , Fairley , Dareus , Quinn or Bowers - you could probably add Von Miller and Peterson to that group. The five teams following them are in pretty much the same situation.

Third , the QB position looks weak at the top and several teams are hurting for talent at the position. Where the top couple QB's are taken will impact at least the next two rounds.



Im hoping that two QB's , two WR's and an OT are taken before the Texans select.

CloakNNNdagger
04-07-2011, 06:16 PM
Since we have no FA rules and teams will therefore need to pick for need, and we have so many defensive needs ourselves, we should have no excuse for not being able to pick up an impact player in the 1st round at least.

HOU-TEX
04-11-2011, 03:20 PM
Just to ruffle a few feathers.

University of North Carolina tight end Ryan Taylor is visiting the Houston Texans today and the Green Bay Packers on Tuesday, according to a league source with knowledge of the situation.

But, I reckon this is the real reason we're looking at him. Possibly an UDFA? Depending on this CBA BS, of course.

A special-teams captain for the Tar Heels, Taylor offers positional versatility because he can play fullback or H-back and is regarded as a physical, aggressive player.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Ryan-Taylor-visiting-the-Texans-today-Packers-up-next.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

El Tejano
04-11-2011, 03:29 PM
Just to ruffle a few feathers.



But, I reckon this is the real reason we're looking at him. Possibly an UDFA? Depending on this CBA BS, of course.



http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Ryan-Taylor-visiting-the-Texans-today-Packers-up-next.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Okay, so based on that quote and the fact we were looking at another FB, I'm assuming we are starting to feel like we aren't going to be able to re-sign Leach. That will be a mistake if we don't. Or maybe they are just drafting with an understanding that anything can happen in FA.

HOU-TEX
04-11-2011, 03:37 PM
Okay, so based on that quote and the fact we were looking at another FB, I'm assuming we are starting to feel like we aren't going to be able to re-sign Leach. That will be a mistake if we don't. Or maybe they are just drafting with an understanding that anything can happen in FA.

Agreed! As long as Leach and his agent will be realistic with their asking price, I see no reason why he shouldn't be retained.

Ole Miss Texan
04-11-2011, 03:53 PM
If they want a FB/H-Back guy I hope they go after Stan Havili from USC.

steelbtexan
04-11-2011, 04:11 PM
Smith gives fans Preparation H before the draft.

CloakNNNdagger
04-12-2011, 09:11 AM
Over the years, despite all of the hard to take disappointments and inadequacies, most of us are still here. But the longer this goes on, the more I am reminded of John Raltson's statement sometime back in the late 70's, I believe. It went something like this. "I am resigning as the Bonco's head coach due to illness and fatigue. The fans are sick and tired of me."

DocBar
04-16-2011, 10:24 AM
It seems like Smith makes his draft picks the same way I pick racehorses: OOOH!!!! This one has a cool name!!!:fortune:

texanchris
04-16-2011, 11:16 AM
not sure if this is the right spot to post this but it is a pretty interesting article on Rick.

http://thexlog.com/201104140801/xtra-point-football/nfl/houston-texans-gm-rick-smith-the-new-matt-millen

Lucky
04-17-2011, 11:21 AM
not sure if this is the right spot to post this but it is a pretty interesting article on Rick.

http://thexlog.com/201104140801/xtra-point-football/nfl/houston-texans-gm-rick-smith-the-new-matt-millen
Absolutely the right spot. Thanks for looking for a current thread, rather than starting a new one. I wish more posters would follow your lead in this regard.

I don't know if Smith is in Matt Millen's class of horrific GMs. I do think that Smith hasn't done enough to keep his job. Boss McNair disagrees.

ArlingtonTexan
04-17-2011, 02:21 PM
not sure if this is the right spot to post this but it is a pretty interesting article on Rick.

http://thexlog.com/201104140801/xtra-point-football/nfl/houston-texans-gm-rick-smith-the-new-matt-millen

The author takes a lot of liberties to make his point (Probowl players Babin, williams and Mathis for instance), but the idea that Rick smith is a bwlow average GM is not an earthshattering idea.

DocBar
04-17-2011, 02:59 PM
The author takes a lot of liberties to make his point (Probowl players Babin, williams and Mathis for instance), but the idea that Rick smith is a bwlow average GM is not an earthshattering idea.Rick Smith has had his 3 years of grace. He's no Jokemarcus Russell, but he's no Aaron Rodgers, either. This is a deep, deep draft at positions we have a need at. Do or die time for the GM.

TEXANRED
04-19-2011, 01:03 PM
"It doesn't get any better than this," Smith said of preparing for the draft. "(The draft is) the most impact I can make on our team short term and long term."

Smith and his staff of scouts have been working for months on their draft board. The coaches also are involved in an evaluation process that's heading down the homestretch.

What I really enjoy doing is finding rough gems like McMannis, Hill, Diles, Studdard, Frye, Okoye and the like. I really dig these unproven athletes b/c should one of them succeed and become a big success I can parlay that into a multi year big money contract extension for myself. And if they don't work out? Hey, I just say it's the coach's fault and start looking for his replacement. Either way I stay pretty busy all year round.

And he went on to say:

"I want to know how the scouts and coaches have the players stacked. That way, when it comes time to make the decision, I'll be clear about how each scout and coach feels about the individual players. So that way when I reach for a player and he fails I have someone to blame it on. Accountability has always been one of my mottos. Always find someone else to hold accountable no matter the cost."



http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7524360.html

Ole Miss Texan
04-19-2011, 01:55 PM
And he went on to say:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7524360.html
I'd be careful there making up quotes...

TEXANRED
04-19-2011, 02:11 PM
I'd be careful there making up quotes...

Why? What's Smith gonna do? Draft 4 Tight End's instead of 3?

DocBar
04-21-2011, 03:04 PM
Why? What's Smith gonna do? Draft 4 Tight End's instead of 3?He might get pissed and draft 8!!! :mcnugget:

There's no way a professional scouting team can have as many misses as the Texans have had. Smith must be convinced of his choices going in and only uses the scouting reports that reinforce his opinion.

Second Honeymoon
04-21-2011, 03:59 PM
He might get pissed and draft 8!!! :mcnugget:

There's no way a professional scouting team can have as many misses as the Texans have had. Smith must be convinced of his choices going in and only uses the scouting reports that reinforce his opinion.

Yup. It's on Rick and Gary. Bad judgement and not enough contacts/friends around the league hurt them greatly.

CloakNNNdagger
04-22-2011, 10:15 AM
We're on our way.:texflag:

@MelKiperESPN
Mel Kiper Jr.
Houston Texans to the Super Bowl. I think they will be a legit contender with a strong defensive draft.
18 hours ago via web

Second Honeymoon
04-22-2011, 10:23 AM
We're on our way.:texflag:

@MelKiperESPN
Mel Kiper Jr.

Yeah, I saw that. I think it's a bit of hyperbole but that's his job. I do think we could make the playoffs if we can address our deficiencies and Kubiak could stop being such a poor head coach.

You put Aso and Quinn on this team, we are legit. If you don't, we go 7-9 or worse.

steelbtexan
04-22-2011, 11:41 AM
He might get pissed and draft 8!!! :mcnugget:

There's no way a professional scouting team can have as many misses as the Texans have had. Smith must be convinced of his choices going in and only uses the scouting reports that reinforce his opinion.

But this means Rick and Gary would have to do their own homework.

Atleast Gary found time to go to the scouting combine this yr. So combine this and adding Wade as a defensive voice in the war room and theoretically the Texans could have their best draft since 2006.

But I wouldn't hold my breath.

infantrycak
04-22-2011, 12:40 PM
God the TE thing is so overplayed.

And the combine is useless except when Kubiak doesn't attend.

Ole Miss Texan
04-22-2011, 12:50 PM
Why does it matter? I'll defend Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak all I can because I believe in what they're doing. And I'll say it right here on this board. If the Texans don't make the playoffs this year I, TEXANRED, will go a day wearing a red dress, lipstick and high heels. That's how strongly I believe in the Rick Smith-led Texans organization.

Can give people the wrong impression, eh?

CloakNNNdagger
04-22-2011, 09:40 PM
From the PFT series covering each team's needs.

Team needs: Houston TexansPosted by Evan Silva on April 22, 2011, 8:52 PM EDT

Jason Lisk of TheBigLead.com recently ran a piece that ranked Gary Kubiak as the worst coach in the NFL. We’ve always kind of liked Kubiak and respected his offensive mind, but the ranking is difficult to dispute. He’s been on the job for five years, and has zero playoff appearances. Kubiak hopes that changes with his defense now under the direction of Wade Phillips.

But Phillips needs some serious, serious help.

LB: The Texans ranked dead last in the league in pass defense last season. Part of it had to do with a secondary that can’t cover. Most of it was because Houston can’t rush the passer. Defensive end Mario Williams is the Texans’ only impact rusher, and few good defenses have just one double-digit sack threat. The Texans barely have two five-sack threats. Connor Barwin is an intriguing prospect, but he didn’t play last year and is coming off serious ankle surgery. We’d love to see what local product Von Miller could do in Phillips’ defense, but he won’t be there at No. 11. So the Texans will likely have to fall back with someone like Aldon Smith of Missouri.

DB: Kubiak and G.M. Rick Smith want to move cornerback Glover Quin to free safety. Trouble is, he was the team’s best corner a year ago, and CB is a considerably more valuable position. First-round pick Kareem Jackson’s confidence was obviously shot in his first season; few NFL corners performed more poorly or provided receivers with more cushion. The Texans have also cut ties with both of their starting safeties, Bernard Pollard and Eugene Wilson, so that too is a need position even with Quin potentially sliding “inside.” Frankly, the defensive backfield is a complete disaster.

NT: Phillips claims confidence that undersized Earl Mitchell can play the nose ala smallish Jay Ratliff, who excelled in Phillips’ scheme with the Cowboys. It’s purely a projection, however, and we suspect the Texans would be hard pressed to pass on Baylor nose tackle Phil Taylor if he’s available for them in the second round. This team will really struggle against the run if Mitchell can’t hold up as an every-down lineman. We’re not sure what Mitchell’s weight is now, but he was 6-foot-1, 294 at his Pro Day last year. He didn’t start a game as a rookie.

WR: We covered every level of the defense already. There’s an odd movement in Houston for the Texans to draft Julio Jones if he’s available at No. 11. It’s very hard to imagine them doing so, but behind Andre Johnson the team may be somewhat thin on receivers. Kevin Walter is just a guy, and Jacoby Jones is a free agent. Ultimately, this is a position the Texans can address later in the draft.

Overview: Another need spot is probably fullback, as All-Pro Vonta Leach, a free agent, recently indicated that the Texans won’t be retaining him. He’s one of the best in the business.

The Texans have a great offense. It’s legitimately Super Bowl-caliber. But they need major reinforcements on defense, and they know it. Look for 75-80 percent of Houston’s 2011 draft class to be devoted to defenders, followed by a couple of pricey free agent signings. Whenever those are allowed.

welsh texan
04-23-2011, 06:47 PM
"2010 Houston Texans Draft (Rick Smith)

Round 1 – CB – Kareem Jackson – (Current Starter)

Round 2 – RB – Ben Tate - (IR as a Rookie)

Round 3 – DT – Earl Mitchell – (Eventual Starter)

Round 4 – ILB – Daryl Sharpton – (Backup)

Round 4 – TE – Garrett Graham – (4th String)

Round 5 – CB – Sherrick McManis – (Backup)

Round 6 – OG - Shelley Smith - (Backup)

Round 6 – KR - Trindon Holliday – (IR as a Rookie)

Round 7 – WR – Dorin DIckerson – (Backup)

Added – Matt Leinart, Wade Smith, Mark Anderson

Lost – Dunta Robinson, Rex Grossman, Ryan Moats"

:toropalm:

TEXANRED
04-23-2011, 08:54 PM
Can give people the wrong impression, eh?

God how drunk was I?

DocBar
04-24-2011, 02:43 AM
God how drunk was I?Very!! :kubepalm:

BigBull17
04-26-2011, 09:52 AM
The author takes a lot of liberties to make his point (Probowl players Babin, williams and Mathis for instance), but the idea that Rick smith is a bwlow average GM is not an earthshattering idea.

Babin wasn't a pro bowl player till three years after we traded him. Junta never has been. Mathis is out the country. Tramon also took 5 years to develop, and smith wasnt here or was brand new when he was cut. Those are stupid arguments.