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thunderkyss
03-24-2011, 07:30 PM
Early 2009.

The GM/owner (whoever) asks you how long it would take you to make that a playoff team, what would you tell him?

Remember, the Packers are up & comers at this time, not the hands down favorite to reach the Super Bowl, the Bears look dysfunctional & on a downward slide, and the Vikings look like the teAm to beat.

You don't have Ndamakung Suh, & though you have the first pick in the draft, at the time of this interview, it isn't guaranteed Suh would be that pick.

So, "Im very interested in having you coach my team. How long would it be before you would have my team in the play-offs?"
.

Lucky
03-24-2011, 10:50 PM
So, "Im very interested in having you coach my team. How long would it be before you would have my team in the play-offs?"
.
Playoffs? Playoffs? You gotta be kidding me? Playoffs?

Signed,
Gary Kubiak

You've got the years mixed up. The Lions drafted Matthew Stafford #1 in 2009 and Ndamukong Suh #2 in 2010.

HJam72
03-25-2011, 10:35 AM
Answer:

I don't know, but my real plan is to let this team continue to suck until I get fired and am offered a lesser position with a better team. Eventually, I will be the HC of that other team....or another good team. That way, I get what I want and the Lions don't lose anything....because, you know....you suck already...

TimeKiller
03-25-2011, 10:49 AM
5 years at least....

The Pencil Neck
03-25-2011, 11:28 AM
5 years.

There's a lot that needs to be fixed and we've got to change a culture that's been around for a long time.

Texecutioner
03-25-2011, 11:39 AM
I wouldn't hire any potential coach that told me 5 years. Interview would be over. That would tell me that the coach is a loser with a poor ambition, and unfortunately that's the same thinking Gary Kubiak had when he was hired.

I'd tell the GM that we're probably looking at 3 years, but if things bounce the right way and we can over achieve some, then 2 years wouldn't be out of the question since quick turn arounds happen a lot more frequently than people especially in here like to give credit for. I'd tell the GM that we'd be out there playing very competitive football and that the culture was going to completely change there and the Lions would no longer look like a bunch of jokes and that they'd be feared after one season and that any player or coaches on the staff that can't move as fast as I expect to and roll with the pace that I'd be setting for this team's turn around and potential run at the SB would be getting possibly traded or shipped out of there for players who are ready to make a run.

gary
03-25-2011, 11:44 AM
The Lions are on the right track if Stafford would just stay healthy.

rmartin65
03-25-2011, 11:57 AM
I would say 3, but in my mind I would be thinking 4. Turnarounds can happen quickly in the NFL, but the Lions had a lot of suckitude back then.

gary
03-25-2011, 12:01 PM
I would say 3, but in my mind I would be thinking 4. Turnarounds can happen quickly in the NFL, but the Lions had a lot of suckitude back then.I don't think they are like that anymore and ought to continue to improve.

The Pencil Neck
03-25-2011, 12:32 PM
If I was the GM or owner of the 2008 0-16 Lions and someone told me less than 4 years, I'd think they were a liar just trying to feed me some sunshine to get a job. Or maybe brain damaged.

It had been 9 years since that team had been to the playoffs and 8 years since their last winning record. They were coming off the worst season in NFL history.

Even 4 years would be optimistic to me. 5 years is doable but doubtful.

The Pencil Neck
03-25-2011, 12:34 PM
I don't think they are like that anymore and ought to continue to improve.

Yeah, they're not like that 2 years removed from the 0-16 season but the question is how long would you expect it to take to build a playoff team from the 2008 Lions... not the 2010 Lions.

Doppelganger
03-25-2011, 12:43 PM
I'd look at them square in the eye, tilt my head to the side, raise my arms so they outstretched to either side and say,

What’s that? Ah — Playoffs? Don’t talk about — playoffs? You kidding me? Playoffs? I just hope we can win a game!

http://www.tedsarmy.com/.a/6a01310f9ede0b970c0134868db035970c-800wi

Texecutioner
03-25-2011, 12:46 PM
If I was the GM or owner of the 2008 0-16 Lions and someone told me less than 4 years, I'd think they were a liar just trying to feed me some sunshine to get a job. Or maybe brain damaged.

It had been 9 years since that team had been to the playoffs and 8 years since their last winning record. They were coming off the worst season in NFL history.

Even 4 years would be optimistic to me. 5 years is doable but doubtful.

And see that's the problem with a lot of Texans fans. It's a "it will take a decade" mentality to find success and possibly greatness attitude that simply is an under achieving mind set. It's been proven time and time again that you can turn a team around in the NFL if you get the right coach in place and who can make enough off season moves to fill holes and have a good draft and more importantly change the attitude and the grit of an entire team. Teams have been changed from horrible offenses or horrible defenses into very good ones in one off season. It just depends on what changes are made and what new personal gets added. But to have a mentality that it takes 4 to 5 years on the quick end is like living in the stone age of the NFL.

And what the Lions did 6 or 7 years prior to the new coach coming in is completely irrelevant. That just tells that there has been a losing culture there for a while, but the only thing that really matters is what is there now and what needs to be done from last season to this first season for the new coach. Changing the culture of being a loser into a team with a ton of confidence is the first thing that needs to be done and every coach isn't capable of that. Some are and that's exactly why teams like the Chiefs and the Saints turned their teams around very quickly and over achieved. Taking a bottom feeder and turning it into a playoff team can be done pretty fast with a good HC/GM and staff that won't accept losing and has high goals from the start.

rmartin65
03-25-2011, 12:47 PM
I don't think they are like that anymore and ought to continue to improve.

The prompt is set a couple years in the past. I think the Lions have a real shot at the playoffs not this upcoming year, but the one after.

Rey
03-25-2011, 12:53 PM
Things can turn very quickly for teams in the NFL.

The Texans weer supposed to make the play-offs a few years ago when Capers was still the coach. An up and coming team can become a bottom feeder just as quickly as an 0-16 team can become a contender.

2-3 years is a long time to get a team to reach the play-offs. Especially in a division where there is no team that is consistently dominant.

gary
03-25-2011, 12:57 PM
Yeah, they're not like that 2 years removed from the 0-16 season but the question is how long would you expect it to take to build a playoff team from the 2008 Lions... not the 2010 Lions.Yhea, but they are making great strides in just about two years. If they sign a top tier free agent or two and have a good draft then you just never know this year if there is any football.

Rey
03-25-2011, 01:05 PM
Yhea, but they are making great strides in just about two years. If they sign a top tier free agent or two and have a good draft then you just never know this year if there is any football.

Good point.

I could easily see Detroit making the play-offs next year as a wild card

gary
03-25-2011, 01:11 PM
Good point.

I could easily see Detroit making the play-offs next year as a wild cardJust think if Stafford stays under center as well.

Hervoyel
03-25-2011, 02:05 PM
I'd tell them that I could have the Lions in the playoffs within three years or.... if the owner thought we were on the right track (stop laughing) and believed in what I was doing I'd coach the fourth year for a token salary of a dollar or something like that.

That's assuming I had what I thought was the necessary input into personnel decisions and/or believed in the GM/owner who was hiring me. I think that no truly competent coach with a capable and determined owner/GM should take longer than 3 years to win with a team. Sure there are teams that win but still miss the playoffs but I think if you're winning 10 games by year 3 you're pretty much there.

The Pencil Neck
03-25-2011, 02:53 PM
And see that's the problem with a lot of Texans fans. It's a "it will take a decade" mentality to find success and possibly greatness attitude that simply is an under achieving mind set. It's been proven time and time again that you can turn a team around in the NFL if you get the right coach in place and who can make enough off season moves to fill holes and have a good draft and more importantly change the attitude and the grit of an entire team. Teams have been changed from horrible offenses or horrible defenses into very good ones in one off season. It just depends on what changes are made and what new personal gets added. But to have a mentality that it takes 4 to 5 years on the quick end is like living in the stone age of the NFL.

And what the Lions did 6 or 7 years prior to the new coach coming in is completely irrelevant. That just tells that there has been a losing culture there for a while, but the only thing that really matters is what is there now and what needs to be done from last season to this first season for the new coach. Changing the culture of being a loser into a team with a ton of confidence is the first thing that needs to be done and every coach isn't capable of that. Some are and that's exactly why teams like the Chiefs and the Saints turned their teams around very quickly and over achieved. Taking a bottom feeder and turning it into a playoff team can be done pretty fast with a good HC/GM and staff that won't accept losing and has high goals from the start.

There are so many things that you've written here that I disagree with that we'll just have to agree to disagree.

But I just wanted to say this about the bolded part.

How can a fan's attitude be a problem? My attitude isn't what caused us to go 6-10 last season. My attitude means absolutely nothing. Do you think that if everyone felt the way you did and all of us Texan fans were beating the "Fire Kubiak" drum 2-3 years ago that we'd have a winning team here now? Do you think that every coach should be given 2 years and then fired if they're not in the playoffs? Really?

Runner
03-25-2011, 03:00 PM
... I'd tell the GM that we'd be out there playing very competitive football and that the culture was going to completely change there and the Lions would no longer look like a bunch of jokes and that they'd be feared after one season and that any player or coaches on the staff that can't move as fast as I expect to and roll with the pace that I'd be setting for this team's turn around and potential run at the SB would be getting possibly traded or shipped out of there for players who are ready to make a run.

I had trouble keeping up with the pace of this sentence!

GP
03-25-2011, 03:24 PM
1. Do nothing crazy in free agency. That's the big thing. Find this year's Leigh Bodden, go after him hardcore, then lose him to another team and just settle with "the kids" again. Easy math.

2. Draft multiple TEs, hoping that one of them is healthy enough to actually play on a regular basis.

3. Expectations of me? Well, let's just remember that Rome wasn't built in a day. I think a nice 25-year contract with incentives and escalators based on ranking in the top 10 on offense will do just fine.

4. I'd like to have a sheet of two-way glass the whole length of the sideline (from one end zone to another) between me and the field...that way I can watch non-dramatic moments and then flip a switch and be shielded from watching those tense, game-deciding plays that just make you feel all squishy inside. Nobody needs to be faced with the reality that we're just gonna find a way to eff it up somehow. With the two-way glass, it would make my life a lot easier. It would give my palm a vacation (that's what she said).

5. I'll need the best hair wax money can buy. Not much else to say on that issue. Bad hair days are a pain.

6. Look, defense is overrated. That was 1985, this is 2011. I'll do it all on offense: draw up each week's plan, call the plays, whatever. For my d-coord, I'm going to need someone who fits under a bus well. I think we all know why.

7. On the issue of press conference podiums, go ahead and have the top of it surfaced with a sound-deadening material. Maybe even go hard plastic. I'm gonna' be wearing a deep dent into that thing.

8. Oh, I forgot about the issue of paid leave. I'm gonna' have an annual procedure done right around the draft combine. Not sure what it'll be, but I won't be there. My GM can handle that anyways, great guy.

9. I'm going to request that you don't hire any coaches who have the last name Fontes. I had a deal back in 2011 where a guy's son, we'll call him "Pade Willips," came in and yanked the rug right out from underneath me. I should have seen it coming, but didn't catch on until the last four weeks of the reg season--Those first three quarters always get me sidetracked. LOL.

10. Do you guys have a Whataburger. That's sort of a big deal.

gary
03-25-2011, 03:49 PM
At least the Lions have gotten rid of the losing attitude and are now winning.

GP
03-25-2011, 03:50 PM
At least the Lions have gotten rid of the losing attitude and are now winning.

I wouldn't mind a little Suh on my defense. Man that guy is BEAST.

stingray
03-25-2011, 03:55 PM
I wouldn't mind a little Suh on my defense. Man that guy is BEAST.

Yes he is. He isn't a Texan but but I am glad the the Lions have then on their team. They finally got some good luck when they picked him.

gary
03-25-2011, 03:57 PM
I wouldn't mind a little Suh on my defense. Man that guy is BEAST.He is one player to build your defense around.

Mr teX
03-25-2011, 03:59 PM
At least the Lions have gotten rid of the losing attitude and are now winning......Oh, wait, they're not winning

fixed

gary
03-25-2011, 04:03 PM
fixedThey will be soon enough and they are winning more than in 2008.

Mr teX
03-25-2011, 04:10 PM
They will be soon enough and they are winning more than in 2008.

I doubt it...Look at their division

GB
Minny
Chicago

Minesota has new leadership & were just in the NFC championship game 2 years ago & chicago was just there last year. GB just won the SB with 16 people on IR - 6 were starters so they're only going to be better in the coming years.

Then if you look at the NFC playoff picture, TB has retooled & won 10 last year, STL is on the come up...If anything, Det. is our reflection except our division nemesis (Indy) is on the down side of their run where there is on the up swing..(GB).

gary
03-25-2011, 04:22 PM
I doubt it...Look at their division

GB
Minny
Chicago

Minesota has new leadership & were just in the NFC championship game 2 years ago & chicago was just there last year. GB just won the SB with 16 people on IR - 6 were starters so they're only going to be better in the coming years.

Then if you look at the NFC playoff picture, TB has retooled & won 10 last year, STL is on the come up...If anything, Det. is our reflection except our division nemesis (Indy) is on the down side of their run where there is on the up swing..(GB).I disagree. Minny is getting older and it should last year. As for the Bears, Eagles, Rams, ect they are all good but if the Lions continue to grow and I think they will then the NFC will only be better. Winning does not always mean the Superbowl either.

The Pencil Neck
03-25-2011, 04:54 PM
At least the Lions have gotten rid of the losing attitude and are now winning.

They aren't winning, yet. Their last winning season was 2000 when they went 9-7. They finished 6-10 this season, just like we did. And 2-14 the year before that.

And remember, there was a lot of excitement in Detroit prior to the 2008 season. Kitna was expecting that team to go to the playoffs. They'd gone 7-9 the previous year and some people were picking them to start making some noise. And then they went 0-16 in 2008.

gary
03-25-2011, 05:05 PM
They aren't winning, yet. Their last winning season was 2000 when they went 9-7. They finished 6-10 this season, just like we did. And 2-14 the year before that.

And remember, there was a lot of excitement in Detroit prior to the 2008 season. Kitna was expecting that team to go to the playoffs. They'd gone 7-9 the previous year and some people were picking them to start making some noise. And then they went 0-16 in 2008.They are not the world yet. All I am saying is that about two years ago they were 0-16 and have done better lately and Suh has helped out a lot.

ChampionTexan
03-25-2011, 05:10 PM
They are not the world yet. All I am saying is that about two years ago they were 0-16 and have done better lately and Suh has helped out a lot.

I think the whole point is don't assume anything until it's happened. Kubiak taking a 2-14 team to 6-10, and then 8-8 is arguably as impressive as the Lions ascent to 6 wins in the Head Coach's 2nd year. It's a whole lot harder to keep getting better than it is to start getting better.

gary
03-25-2011, 05:22 PM
I think the whole point is don't assume anything until it's happened. Kubiak taking a 2-14 team to 6-10, and then 8-8 is arguably as impressive as the Lions ascent to 6 wins in the Head Coach's 2nd year. It's a whole lot harder to keep getting better than it is to start getting better.I don't disagree but there has to be more hope than with John Kitna at QB and great young DT like Suh. We will see how things go from here.

ChampionTexan
03-25-2011, 05:37 PM
I don't disagree but there has to be more hope than with John Kitna at QB and great young DT like Suh. We will see how things go from here.

But there's always that "Yeah, but" as in "Yeah, but Matthew Stafford's missed more games injured in his first two seasons than he's played". While he's better than Kitna, I'm not sure either Shaun Hill or Drew Stanton are. This is compounded by the fact that if Stafford is truly injury prone, they'll likely need a couple more seasons to figure that out. This means that if he's not playing, whoever is will be a backup - and even a good backup isn't going to take an NFL team far.

gary
03-25-2011, 06:01 PM
But there's always that "Yeah, but" as in "Yeah, but Matthew Stafford's missed more games injured in his first two seasons than he's played". While he's better than Kitna, I'm not sure either Shaun Hill or Drew Stanton are. This is compounded by the fact that if Stafford is truly injury prone, they'll likely need a couple more seasons to figure that out. This means that if he's not playing, whoever is will be a backup - and even a good backup isn't going to take an NFL team far.I guess you are right but if Staffords holds up then anything might happen. It is the wait and see game for me right now but everything has to fall into place.

The Pencil Neck
03-25-2011, 10:17 PM
So does Schwartz get fired because he's had 2 years and hasn't gotten the Lions into the playoffs, yet?

Lucky
03-25-2011, 10:46 PM
Is this the "Yippee, we're better than the Lions!" thread? Because I'd like to point out that the Texans are actually drafting ahead of the Lions.

axman40
03-25-2011, 10:59 PM
Is this a new reality tv show, could find better than Matt Millen.
:kitten:

thunderkyss
03-25-2011, 11:08 PM
Things can turn very quickly for teams in the NFL.

The Texans weer supposed to make the play-offs a few years ago when Capers was still the coach. An up and coming team can become a bottom feeder just as quickly as an 0-16 team can become a contender.

2-3 years is a long time to get a team to reach the play-offs. Especially in a division where there is no team that is consistently dominant.

Truth be told, the right coach could have had the Texans winning in 2006 or 2007. If you remember the talk, we weren't going to have to do a complete rebuild, because we were already running a ZBS.

The decision to go with a 4-3, without a proven coordinator was a poor decision (in hindsight). Sure, Kubiak didn't get his guy, but a better defensive coaching staff, with Mario, Demeco, & a healthy Dunta should have allowed us to win more games than we did.

And see that's the problem with a lot of Texans fans. It's a "it will take a decade" mentality to find success and possibly greatness attitude that simply is an under achieving mind set.

Who said anything about a decade? If you're saying we should change HC/GMs every three years, the longest I've heard so far, is 5 years.


It's been proven time and time again that you can turn a team around in the NFL if you get the right coach in place and who can make enough off season moves to fill holes and have a good draft and more importantly change the attitude and the grit of an entire team.


& if frogs had wings, if my aunt had nuts, if, if, if....

The 49ers have followed your approach, when was their last winning season?

The Rams?

The Lions?

The Bills?

There are examples of teams who have gone from last to 1st in a short time, with a new coach, but many more that have not. You're talking exception, not the rule.

How many teams have gone from 4 years or more of loosing seasons to play-off appearance in 3 years or less after a coaching change?

Changing the culture of being a loser into a team with a ton of confidence is the first thing that needs to be done and every coach isn't capable of that.

Some are and that's exactly why teams like the Chiefs and the Saints turned their teams around very quickly and over achieved. Taking a bottom feeder and turning it into a playoff team can be done pretty fast with a good HC/GM and staff that won't accept losing and has high goals from the start.

I won't argue too much here. Culture change, absolutely first thing that has to be changed.

Sean Peyton did a wonderful job, & so did Scott Pioli.

Again, I think exeption to the rule. Again, how many teams with 4 or more losing seasons have been turned around in three or less?

& I'm saying 4, because that's what Kubiak took over, & the Lions job is even tougher than that.

The Pencil Neck
03-25-2011, 11:16 PM
Is this the "Yippee, we're better than the Lions!" thread? Because I'd like to point out that the Texans are actually drafting ahead of the Lions.

No, this is the "a really decent coach can turn any team around in a year because it's so easy to do" thread.

thunderkyss
03-25-2011, 11:17 PM
I don't disagree but there has to be more hope than with John Kitna at QB and great young DT like Suh. We will see how things go from here.

Matt Stafford isn't half the QB Jon Kitna was (at that time). He hasn't ever thrown for 3,000 yards in a season, much less two back to back 4,000+ yards.

Kitna wasn't a god, not even close. But Stafford has yet to prove he can play this game at this level & Kitna has.

and as far as Suh goes... we'll see. He looks good his rookie year, let's see if he can keep it up.

thunderkyss
03-25-2011, 11:22 PM
Is this the "Yippee, we're better than the Lions!" thread? Because I'd like to point out that the Texans are actually drafting ahead of the Lions.

Actually no.

I was trying to take the Texans out of the equation, and get an idea of how long it would take a bottom dweller to "turn it around," & get to a winning season.

I agree things are looking better for the Lions, but I doubt they'll have 9 wins in 2011, if they play in 2011. But we'll see.

steelbtexan
03-26-2011, 12:52 AM
The question is are the Lions going to make the playoffs before the Texans.

I wouldn't bet against it and the Lions are in a much harder division than the Texans.

Schwartz and Mayhew> Kubiak and Smith and it isn't even close.

TEXANRED
03-26-2011, 02:36 AM
Early 2009.

The GM/owner (whoever) asks you how long it would take you to make that a playoff team, what would you tell him?

Remember, the Packers are up & comers at this time, not the hands down favorite to reach the Super Bowl, the Bears look dysfunctional & on a downward slide, and the Vikings look like the teAm to beat.

You don't have Ndamakung Suh, & though you have the first pick in the draft, at the time of this interview, it isn't guaranteed Suh would be that pick.

So, "Im very interested in having you coach my team. How long would it be before you would have my team in the play-offs?"
.

If I were being interviewed to be the coach of the Lions I would have to put you on hold because there is a guy on line 1 about a set of white walls. (Major league ref.)

gary
03-26-2011, 12:44 PM
Actually no.

I was trying to take the Texans out of the equation, and get an idea of how long it would take a bottom dweller to "turn it around," & get to a winning season.

I agree things are looking better for the Lions, but I doubt they'll have 9 wins in 2011, if they play in 2011. But we'll see.Stafford just has to stay healthy for a full season for us to actually see how good he is. He looks like he might throw for 3,00 plus if he ever plays long enough which is the key.

thunderkyss
03-26-2011, 10:45 PM
Stafford just has to stay healthy for a full season for us to actually see how good he is. He looks like he might throw for 3,00 plus if he ever plays long enough which is the key.

When he does it, we can talk about it.

gary
03-26-2011, 11:12 PM
When he does it, we can talk about it.
I guess. Look, I have received a little heat/flack. in this thread and I want to make it very clear I am not crowning anyone champion just yet. I am just saying some talent is there a great wide receiver and an up and coming RB and DT as well so no one knows yet. This is not directed at you TK.

GP
03-27-2011, 09:46 AM
When he does it, we can talk about it.

What a coincidence, some of us take the same thought process you just described and apply it to Gary Kubiak & Friends, as well.

thunderkyss
03-27-2011, 11:44 AM
What a coincidence, some of us take the same thought process you just described and apply it to Gary Kubiak & Friends, as well.

coincidentally, I've never implied otherwise.

I'm on the same page with you & several others as far as Kubiak & Co. are concerned.

I don't take my rhetoric to the same extent, but the sentiment is the same.

steelbtexan
03-27-2011, 12:27 PM
coincidentally, I've never implied otherwise.

I'm on the same page with you & several others as far as Kubiak & Co. are concerned.

I don't take my rhetoric to the same extent, but the sentiment is the same.


Good to see you come over to the dark side. LOL

GP
03-27-2011, 01:21 PM
coincidentally, I've never implied otherwise.

I'm on the same page with you & several others as far as Kubiak & Co. are concerned.

I don't take my rhetoric to the same extent, but the sentiment is the same.

I think you have a greater tolerance level, that's all.

You're a lot more open and gracious than most, which has its pros and cons.

Bob McNair, IMO, is the greatest inhibitor right now. He's trying to find a way to create a legacy-type NFL franchise, but isn't finding the right mix.

I honestly think he believes the Kubiak-Phillips combination will do it for him. But I happen to think there's too strong of a McNair-Kubiak culture on the team to allow ultimate success to occur--Too much "steady as she goes, slow wins the race, we'll get 'em next time" mentality.

Sure, it makes for a stable environment and allows time for proper "growth" but I think it's been carried to an extreme. When you have a kicker's competition rather than just releasing the guy outright, WTH? It's a freaking KICKER. That, to me, is the ultimate giveaway that these guys are rooted in downhome loyalty-to-a-fault mindset about building a team. It's. A. Damn. Kicker. Hooray, Kris Brown is a great guy. Yeehaw, he was an original Texans member from our inception as a team. He shanked kicks AND an extra point, and essentially crawled off the field and hid under the bench with a towel over his head--Cut him, wish him well, move on. But nooooo...that was too "traumatic" and mean-spirited. See what I mean? It's hilarious, honestly. It really is. The extent that this team's leadership goes to, in order to preserve appearances and avoid what they think is poor P.R.

Maybe I'm just a stickler for efficiency, but this current direction we began 5 years ago is grating on my nerves. If it pays off, and this team blows up big and then holds form for a decade, then I was wrong and I'll admit it for 10 years every day on here. I just don't think it's gonna' happen, but am here to see if it does, and would love to be proven wrong (since it would mean SB titles).

steelbtexan
03-27-2011, 02:24 PM
I think you have a greater tolerance level, that's all.

You're a lot more open and gracious than most, which has its pros and cons.

Bob McNair, IMO, is the greatest inhibitor right now. He's trying to find a way to create a legacy-type NFL franchise, but isn't finding the right mix.

I honestly think he believes the Kubiak-Phillips combination will do it for him. But I happen to think there's too strong of a McNair-Kubiak culture on the team to allow ultimate success to occur--Too much "steady as she goes, slow wins the race, we'll get 'em next time" mentality.

Sure, it makes for a stable environment and allows time for proper "growth" but I think it's been carried to an extreme. When you have a kicker's competition rather than just releasing the guy outright, WTH? It's a freaking KICKER. That, to me, is the ultimate giveaway that these guys are rooted in downhome loyalty-to-a-fault mindset about building a team. It's. A. Damn. Kicker. Hooray, Kris Brown is a great guy. Yeehaw, he was an original Texans member from our inception as a team. He shanked kicks AND an extra point, and essentially crawled off the field and hid under the bench with a towel over his head--Cut him, wish him well, move on. But nooooo...that was too "traumatic" and mean-spirited. See what I mean? It's hilarious, honestly. It really is. The extent that this team's leadership goes to, in order to preserve appearances and avoid what they think is poor P.R.

Maybe I'm just a stickler for efficiency, but this current direction we began 5 years ago is grating on my nerves. If it pays off, and this team blows up big and then holds form for a decade, then I was wrong and I'll admit it for 10 years every day on here. I just don't think it's gonna' happen, but am here to see if it does, and would love to be proven wrong (since it would mean SB titles).

Could the fact that Gary's teams only play one half of each game contribute to this feeling? Or is it the fact when Gary has to make decisions under pressure he wilts like a grade schooler?

The Pencil Neck
03-27-2011, 03:10 PM
Maybe I'm just a stickler for efficiency, but this current direction we began 5 years ago is grating on my nerves. If it pays off, and this team blows up big and then holds form for a decade, then I was wrong and I'll admit it for 10 years every day on here. I just don't think it's gonna' happen, but am here to see if it does, and would love to be proven wrong (since it would mean SB titles).

Let me state first that I was all for firing Kubiak at the end of last season. He needed to make the playoffs or at least win 10 games last year and he had a team good enough to do it. It didn't get done. So I was fine with cutting ties.

Personally, I've preferred trying this approach to the "change your coaches every 2-3 years" approach. I think most owners change their coaches too often at the slightest sign of losing and I think that causes them to not have as much long-term success. I think that's what's great about the Steelers; they gave Cowher a chance to keep coaching when a lot of teams would have fired him. That only bought them one SB win under his tenure but I think it laid the foundation for the SBs under Tomlin.

I think that McNair is trying to recreate that sort of patience. And you can see teams like the Bengals and Bears trying to use that same sort of patient strategy. But the teams are meeting with varying levels of success.

Since Smithiak has been given another year, I'm rooting for them to be successful. Adding Wade could be the piece that they need and this could be the right coaching chemistry. But I'm doing my part to "not accept" the losing that we did last season. I'm not going to any games next season or until we turn this thing around.

steelbtexan
03-27-2011, 04:30 PM
The Bears signed Peppers and made it to the NFC championship game

We as Texans fans can only wish BoB would do something like this. There's the difference between the 2 teams.

Wolf6151
03-27-2011, 06:55 PM
If it was early 2009, the Lions suck bad, and I'm interviewing for the head coaches position I'd tell them that we'll make the playoffs 3-4 yrs. after the Ford family sells the team to new ownership. They're some of the biggest tightwads in the NFL. I'd then build from the ground up and focus all my early picks on the D-line and O-line, a good RB can be found late in the draft behind a good O-line and I'd only draft a top QB once I had an O-line to protect him. I'd advise the interviewer that the team will continue to suck for a few more years so be prepared.

GP
03-27-2011, 10:41 PM
Let me state first that I was all for firing Kubiak at the end of last season. He needed to make the playoffs or at least win 10 games last year and he had a team good enough to do it. It didn't get done. So I was fine with cutting ties.

Personally, I've preferred trying this approach to the "change your coaches every 2-3 years" approach. I think most owners change their coaches too often at the slightest sign of losing and I think that causes them to not have as much long-term success. I think that's what's great about the Steelers; they gave Cowher a chance to keep coaching when a lot of teams would have fired him. That only bought them one SB win under his tenure but I think it laid the foundation for the SBs under Tomlin.

I think that McNair is trying to recreate that sort of patience. And you can see teams like the Bengals and Bears trying to use that same sort of patient strategy. But the teams are meeting with varying levels of success.

Since Smithiak has been given another year, I'm rooting for them to be successful. Adding Wade could be the piece that they need and this could be the right coaching chemistry. But I'm doing my part to "not accept" the losing that we did last season. I'm not going to any games next season or until we turn this thing around.

If the defense does a typical Wade Phillips turnaround, we could be legit.

I figure it's the last-gasp effort to keep Smithiak around.

Mr teX
03-28-2011, 09:22 AM
The Bears signed Peppers and made it to the NFC championship game

We as Texans fans can only wish BoB would do something like this. There's the difference between the 2 teams.

C'mon steelb...again with the oversimplifying....You do know bears fans have been clamoring to have Lovie fired since at least 2008 right?.

To top all this off your boy Gary Kubiak's record against the bears is 2-0.

They traded for & signed a "big time" qb in 2009 too in Jay Cutler.. how'd that work out for them? It didn't...at least not until they brought in Martz & all of sudden Cutler doesn't look as terrible. The fact of the matter is they finally broke through again last year after 2 garbage years...with a coach that is at best = to gary kubiak when it comes to game time strategy & X's & O's. Yet the bears FO didn't blink when its fans where about ready to jump off a cliff b/c they keep bringing him back.

GP
03-28-2011, 09:44 AM
C'mon steelb...again with the oversimplifying....You do know bears fans have been clamoring to have Lovie fired since at least 2008 right?.

To top all this off your boy Gary Kubiak's record against the bears is 2-0.

They traded for & signed a "big time" qb in 2009 too in Jay Cutler.. how'd that work out for them? It didn't...at least not until they brought in Martz & all of sudden Cutler doesn't look as terrible. The fact of the matter is they finally broke through again last year after 2 garbage years...with a coach that is at best = to gary kubiak when it comes to game time strategy & X's & O's. Yet the bears FO didn't blink when its fans where about ready to jump off a cliff b/c they keep bringing him back.

You're honestly going to sit there and compare the two coaches of two teams like this?

We've had 9 "garbage" years, bro. NINE. Even the glorious 9-7 season is just pathetic.

The Bears have been to the NFC Title game twice, AND had a Super Bowl appearance, and you're going to compare Gary Kubiak to Lovie Smith?

LOL. Wow.

HOU-TEX
03-28-2011, 10:04 AM
The Lions became relevant the moment Millen was fired.

Suh's a beast! I'd trade our entire defense for him. If he remains somewhat healthy throughout his career, I'm betting he'll end up one of the best DT's to play in the NFL.

Amobi Okoye = Back to reality *sigh*

Mr teX
03-28-2011, 10:29 AM
You're honestly going to sit there and compare the two coaches of two teams like this?

We've had 9 "garbage" years, bro. NINE. Even the glorious 9-7 season is just pathetic.

The Bears have been to the NFC Title game twice, AND had a Super Bowl appearance, and you're going to compare Gary Kubiak to Lovie Smith?

LOL. Wow.

Dude, read everything in the context of the post i responded to....

2nd, I wasn't aware that Kubiak had been here for all 9 years of our existence "bro"?

GP
03-28-2011, 10:52 AM
Dude, read everything in the context of the post i responded to....

2nd, I wasn't aware that Kubiak had been here for all 9 years of our existence "bro"?

You have nothing, but you're still trying to bluff.

You're trying to draw comparisons between the output of two coaches as it relates to the two owners of each team. You chose to bring Lovie Smith and "two garbage years" into the conversation. Not exactly a smart argument.

TWO NFC Title Games, and ONE Super Bowl appearance in 7 years after he inherited a bad Bears team. What has Gary Kubiak done in his 5 years here? I suppose he's going to rattle off TWO AFC Title Games and One Super Bowl appearance over the next two years of his career (getting to the 7-year mark that Lovie Smith had in order to get two title games and one SB appearance)?

I guess I fail to see what "context" you intended to portray in your post. It appeared you are trying to equate the two coaches, as I will demonstrate (below) via using your own words as you originally stated them earlier:

C'mon steelb...again with the oversimplifying....You do know bears fans have been clamoring to have Lovie fired since at least 2008 right? Well, Mr. Tex, maybe the Bears fans have higher expectations than just the NFC Championship Trophy? Could it be that they had a taste of the good life and wanted it back again, and wanted the full culmination--A SB Title? Hey, I give Bears fans props on this issue--They don't settle for less, and they are vocal about their aspirations and desires as sports fans.

To top all this off your boy Gary Kubiak's record against the bears is 2-0. Wow. Yeah, that's a deal clincher right there. Random stat = Epic Win.

They traded for & signed a "big time" qb in 2009 too in Jay Cutler.. how'd that work out for them? It's been average, I'll admit it. It didn't...at least not until they brought in Martz & all of sudden Cutler doesn't look as terrible. Yeah, that's an ownership deciding that he needs to get some things corrected. Bob is attempting to do the same thing, here, with bringing in Wade Phillips. I can only hope it has the same results...but we're talking about Lovie Smith's overall leadership vs. Gary Kubiak's overall leadership and the two are at odds with one another, IMO. The fact of the matter is they finally broke through again last year after 2 garbage years...with a coach that is at best = to gary kubiak when it comes to game time strategy & X's & O's. Lovie Smith had the 2nd ranked offense and 5th ranked defense in the NFL in 2006 when they went 13-3 and went to the Super Bowl vs. the Colts. And how does Gary and Lovie become equal in x's and o's? The Bears also went to the 2011 NFC Title game recently. Gary spends his winters near the fireplace. :( Yet the bears FO didn't blink when its fans where about ready to jump off a cliff b/c they keep bringing him back. How do you know this for sure? I bet there are fans unhappy and ready for a change. I bet they look at Bill Cowher and think "Man, THAT guy would be a good fit for the Bears with his background of having a stellar defense, cold weather, blue-collar culture, etc." I think your last statement is a stretch, as well. I don't think it was too bad to be a Bears fan the past 7 years, it's beating this Texans team in many aspects.

Mr teX
03-28-2011, 11:13 AM
You have nothing, but you're still trying to bluff.

You're trying to draw comparisons between the output of two coaches as it relates to the two owners of each team. You chose to bring Lovie Smith and "two garbage years" into the conversation. Not exactly a smart argument.

TWO NFC Title Games, and ONE Super Bowl appearance in 7 years after he inherited a bad Bears team. What has Gary Kubiak done in his 5 years here? I suppose he's going to rattle off TWO AFC Title Games and One Super Bowl appearance over the next two years of his career (getting to the 7-year mark that Lovie Smith had in order to get two title games and one SB appearance)?

I guess I fail to see what "context" you intended to portray in your post. It appeared you are trying to equate the two coaches, as I will demonstrate (below) via using your own words as you originally stated them earlier:

Dude, just stop.

You failed to see b/c you don't want to see. He said that the bears going after peppers is the difference between the 2 organizations ......as if that was the 1 & only deciding factor in their success last year. I countered that statement. What's so hard to understand about the post?

A team's success isn't always indicative of how good a HC coach is, stop being obtuse for the sake of winning a discussion. I'll use Mike Martz. He's been to a couple of NFC championship games & a SB, does anyone think he was a great/good HC? nope. How about Bill Callahan HC of the raiders a few years back when they went to the SB? Marvin Lewis anyone? How about Jim Caldwell & the colts in 2009? There are tons of head coaches who have been part of successful teams, doesn't mean that they are great HC's. Sometimes theirs too much talent for the HC not to succeed. & if a coach of Kubiak's caliber can own you head to head, Yes you fall in that category.

& the fact that the bears FO stayed the course with Smith despite thier fan base wanting him out was the other end of that. If he's as great a HC as you apparently think he is, well then i guess it was good that the FO said to hell with the fan base & kept him.

GP
03-28-2011, 11:25 AM
& the fact that the bears FO stayed the course with Smith despite thier fan base wanting him out was the other end of that. If he's as great a HC as you apparently think he is, well then i guess it was good that the FO said to hell with the fan base & kept him.

I'm excluding your Julius Peppers statements because you know full well that you didn't even mention the guy in your response to steelb. You're bringing him up as an "after the fact" defense of your excuse you gave about how I didn't take it in the right context to what steelb was saying.

You brought up three things for evaluation:

1. Bears fans and their clamoring for the FO to dump Smith after...
2. ...Two "garbage" years
3. Kubiak "owning" Lovie Smith in a two-game series

On all three points, I fail to see the merits of your arguments.

I've already discussed each of those three points. All I expect now is for you to bring up another topic in order to keep the wheels of this convo turning.

I don't have to win. I declare YOU to be the winner.

Mr teX
03-28-2011, 11:38 AM
I'm excluding your Julius Peppers statements because you know full well that you didn't even mention the guy in your response to steelb. You're bringing him up as an "after the fact" defense of your excuse you gave about how I didn't take it in the right context to what steelb was saying.

You brought up three things for evaluation:

1. Bears fans and their clamoring for the FO to dump Smith after...
2. ...Two "garbage" years
3. Kubiak "owning" Lovie Smith in a two-game series

On all three points, I fail to see the merits of your arguments.

I've already discussed each of those three points. All I expect now is for you to bring up another topic in order to keep the wheels of this convo turning.

I don't have to win. I declare YOU to be the winner.

I didn't say that I brought up peppers, I said he did in his post that i quoted. The post was in direct response to his insinuation that landing a top FA (peppers) last year was the difference. i countered by pointing out to him that they did the exact same thing (acquiring jay cutler, big name FA) the year prior & how did that work out for them...Was lovie a great/good coach then? how about the year before that?

nice try though.

Texecutioner
03-28-2011, 11:41 AM
Dude, just stop.

You failed to see b/c you don't want to see. He said that the bears going after peppers is the difference between the 2 organizations ......as if that was the 1 & only deciding factor in their success last year. I countered that statement. What's so hard to understand about the post?

A team's success isn't always indicative of how good a HC coach is, stop being obtuse for the sake of winning a discussion. I'll use Mike Martz. He's been to a couple of NFC championship games & a SB, does anyone think he was a great/good HC? nope. How about Bill Callahan HC of the raiders a few years back when they went to the SB? Marvin Lewis anyone? How about Jim Caldwell & the colts in 2009? There are tons of head coaches who have been part of successful teams, doesn't mean that they are great HC's. Sometimes theirs too much talent for the HC not to succeed. & if a coach of Kubiak's caliber can own you head to head, Yes you fall in that category.

& the fact that the bears FO stayed the course with Smith despite thier fan base wanting him out was the other end of that. If he's as great a HC as you apparently think he is, well then i guess it was good that the FO said to hell with the fan base & kept him.

You've got nothing to really fall back on at this point. The Texans have stunk despite your arguments you've made for them in the past. It's over. Your arguments are the same every off season and then they're the same all throughout every season and your track record now is about as good as the Lions record of 0-16.

I remember hearing all these ridiculous comparisons of Kubiak to this coach or to that coach and many times people did try and bash Lovie Smith to make an argument for Kubes, and those who did that can't even be taken seriously as a football observer. Lovie Smith has over achieved with the Bears twice now. He's never had the greatest rosters and him and Kubiak aren't even on the same planet as coaches. Smithiak is a 5 year loser now. All the stuff about him becoming a great coach and leader for this franchise in year 4 and 5 were failures. You've called yourself a homer before even, so you might as well put that in your sig so people will know when the optimistic "We're going to be a top team and Kubiak will become the next Fisher or Landry" spin is coming.

Mr teX
03-28-2011, 11:45 AM
You've got nothing to really fall back on at this point. The Texans have stunk despite your arguments you've made for them in the past. It's over. Your arguments are the same every off season and then they're the same all throughout every season and your track record now is about as good as the Lions record of 0-16.

I remember hearing all these ridiculous comparisons of Kubiak to this coach or to that coach and many times people did try and bash Lovie Smith to make an argument for Kubes, and those who did that can't even be taken seriously as a football observer. Lovie Smith has over achieved with the Bears twice now. He's never had the greatest rosters and him and Kubiak aren't even on the same planet as coaches. Smithiak is a 5 year loser now. All the stuff about him becoming a great coach and leader for this franchise in year 4 and 5 were failures. You've called yourself a homer before even, so you might as well put that in your sig so people will know when the optimistic "We're going to be a top team and Kubiak will become the next Fisher or Landry" spin is coming.

This all pretty much applies to you too buddy regardless of how "right" you feel.

Texecutioner
03-28-2011, 12:14 PM
This all pretty much applies to you too buddy regardless of how "right" you feel.

No, I've been proven right since I've been on this site as far as Smithiak and the Texans are concerned. You can go look back on any of my posts since I've been here and I've been critical of Smithiak since I've been here. I've been proven right over and over since then. The people that ripped me when I first joined this site and acted like Kubiak was the next Fisher or Landry have been the ones that were wrong. I've got a track record that's on point as far as Smithiak goes and just about everything I've predicted has been on point with what we did or didn't do with this team. Could I be wrong about the team this year? Sure, but I'd be willing to bet my bottom dollar that I won't be again. Go pull up old posts and old threads from 3 years ago and see what was said and what wasn't, and you won't be surprised to see a lot of the same posters saying the same ole stuff no matter what the situation is or was at the time. The results from the Texans tell you exactly who was right and who was wrong. Going back on history, it's not about what anyone thinks at this point. That's why it's history. It's fact now, and my criticisms year after year have been dead on. Until SMithiak is gone this franchise is in disarray.

GP
03-28-2011, 04:03 PM
I didn't say that I brought up peppers, I said he did in his post that i quoted. The post was in direct response to his insinuation that landing a top FA (peppers) last year was the difference. i countered by pointing out to him that they did the exact same thing (acquiring jay cutler, big name FA) the year prior & how did that work out for them...Was lovie a great/good coach then? how about the year before that?

nice try though.

But you never addressed PEPPERS, yet you're saying THAT was what your post was referring to. Not a drop of it makes sense, you're going in circles hoping I'll get dizzy and fall down.

You win, remember? At this point, you're just arguing with yourself.

Mr teX
03-28-2011, 05:11 PM
But you never addressed PEPPERS, yet you're saying THAT was what your post was referring to. Not a drop of it makes sense, you're going in circles hoping I'll get dizzy and fall down.

You win, remember? At this point, you're just arguing with yourself.

Yeah, b/c you couldn't/didn't correctly ascertain what was going, it doesn't make sense.....:lol:..:thumbup....:spit:

gary
03-29-2011, 10:59 PM
Wasn't the Superbowl with Rex Grossman? Yhea. Quiet. Sh.

thunderkyss
03-29-2011, 11:14 PM
Wasn't the Superbowl with Rex Grossman? Yhea. Quiet. Sh.

Yes, Grossman has had a better career than Stafford so far....... Yhea. Quit. Sh.

gary
03-29-2011, 11:34 PM
Yes, Grossman has had a better career than Stafford so far....... Yhea. Quit. Sh.Ya know, I am just fooling around? I hope.