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Texecutioner
03-08-2011, 04:21 PM
Does anyone think this guy is going to be really good on the next level?

I sure as hell don't. This guy already had problems and character issues coming into college and he's not a QB that's not going to need a lot of grooming. That's always a risk there. Then you add this guy's attitude and his ego and I can't believe that teams are even thinking of taking him in the first round. This guy is already talking in 3rd person for god sakes. All the athletes that do that always seem to be the head cases. I wouldn't touch Cam Newton until like the 3rd round if that.

El Tejano
03-08-2011, 04:25 PM
Does anyone think this guy is going to be really good on the next level?

I sure as hell don't. This guy already had problems and character issues coming into college and he's not a QB that's not going to need a lot of grooming. That's always a risk there. Then you add this guy's attitude and his ego and I can't believe that teams are even thinking of taking him in the first round. This guy is already talking in 3rd person for god sakes. All the athletes that do that always seem to be the head cases. I wouldn't touch Cam Newton until like the 3rd round if that.

I saw a QB who left Florida, went to Blinn Jr College, get his way back into an Auburn program and get that Natl Championship. Everytime I've seen him I've only see him embracing the people and he looks pretty accurate to me.

Kulluminatii
03-08-2011, 04:26 PM
I seriously doubt he'll end up like JaMarcus Russell, but unless he's put into an ideal situation where he can sit behind a vet for a few years, he'll at best be a VY 2.0. I have a feeling some team will take him in the first, maybe not one in the top 10, but some team out there will think they can model him into the next Vick.

Texecutioner
03-08-2011, 04:30 PM
I saw a QB who left Florida, went to Blinn Jr College, get his way back into an Auburn program and get that Natl Championship. Everytime I've seen him I've only see him embracing the people and he looks pretty accurate to me.

He's not an accurate thrower at all when in comparison with other QB's that enter the league as top talent. He has no zip on his passes either. His attitude will cause problems for him. You'll see. Guys with egos like that who also have poor parenting and bad advice usually end up causing problems fir themselves. He'll be hard to coach and he's more of raw talent than he is a QB. QB's like him can be successful all day long in college, but the NFL is a much different game.

kiwitexansfan
03-08-2011, 07:31 PM
Question: How is Cam Newton a worse QB than Vince Young or Tim Tebow?

bah007
03-08-2011, 07:37 PM
Question: How is Cam Newton a worse QB than Vince Young or Tim Tebow?

He's not, imo. But then again, what have those guys ever done in the pros?

JB
03-08-2011, 07:48 PM
He's not, imo. But then again, what have those guys ever done in the pros?

Beat the Texans :toropalm:

kiwitexansfan
03-08-2011, 07:51 PM
Vince made Pro Bowls, his team won games..... if that is Cam Newton's floor, that is pretty good.

Spled
03-08-2011, 08:05 PM
I think he might develop into a Donovan McNabb type. Good, but turnover prone.

Texan_Bill
03-08-2011, 09:09 PM
I think he might develop into a Donovan McNabb type. Good, but turnover prone.

I can see the Donovan McNabb comparison!! Really good, but at the end of the day, won't deliver... That said, I think he'll be fairly productive... Not Jamarcus Russell.

kiwitexansfan
03-08-2011, 09:24 PM
I think he might develop into a Donovan McNabb type. Good, but turnover prone.

Wouldn't you take a Donovan McNabb career over 95% of the QBs in the league?

Texan_Bill
03-08-2011, 09:43 PM
Wouldn't you take a Donovan McNabb career over 95% of the QBs in the league?

:thinking: Ummmmmmm, NO!!!!

kiwitexansfan
03-08-2011, 10:15 PM
:thinking: Ummmmmmm, NO!!!!

McNabb led the Eagles to four consecutive NFC East division championships (2001, 2002, 2003, and 2004), five NFC Championship Games (2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2008), and one Super Bowl (Super Bowl XXXIX, in which the Eagles were defeated by the New England Patriots). Perhaps his most memorable play has become known as "4th and 26", which took place against the Green Bay Packers in the final minutes of a 2003 NFC Divisional playoff game.
He is the Eagles' all-time leader in career wins, pass attempts, pass completions, passing yards, and passing touchdowns.[1]

If Schaub ends up with this kind of record I'd be a happy fan.

Playoffs
03-08-2011, 10:28 PM
Beat the Texans :toropalm:

Hate to be the answer to that question. :mariopalm:

76Texan
03-08-2011, 11:10 PM
If this guy fails, it will be something like off-the-field issue or injury.
Best QB prospect (besides Sam Bradford) I've seen since the day of VY.

If you go through the qualification list that Sid Gilman, John Madden, and Bill Walsh had for QB, Newton met all the criteria.

It's Gabbert who was in the spread offense.

Newton was under center about 3-4 times a game (not counting the Championship game.)
It wasn't much, but I've seen him carry out those snaps flawlesly.
From handing the ball off to the RB in the I-formation, fake a hand off then give the ball to a receiver on a reverse, bootleg a la Schaub, play action fake, drop back pass... everything that a QB in a pro system sees.

Even when he was in the shotgun, he would take a 3-step drop from time to time. Also, the Tigers used 2 backs in their shotgun quite often, including the offset I.
(I did say I wouldn't mind Gus Malzan at all when the Cougars was looking for a HC. This guy is pretty crazily innovative.)

So in term of who needs more time to get use to the pro set, I say it would be Gabbert.

b0ng
03-09-2011, 01:40 AM
Does anyone think this guy is going to be really good on the next level?

I sure as hell don't. This guy already had problems and character issues coming into college and he's not a QB that's not going to need a lot of grooming. That's always a risk there. Then you add this guy's attitude and his ego and I can't believe that teams are even thinking of taking him in the first round. This guy is already talking in 3rd person for god sakes. All the athletes that do that always seem to be the head cases. I wouldn't touch Cam Newton until like the 3rd round if that.

He really has to evolve in the passing game by leaps and bounds in order to become a viable long time starting QB. I honestly don't think him doing what he did in college is going to work for more than a few games or so if it works at all. It'll be interesting to see where he goes (I don't believe Carolina is going to pick him #1 overall, that just seems so stupid), and whether he's thrown in early or not. The character concerns are a little bit more trivial to me than what I see of him on game tape. I'm not saying he has no shot whatsoever, but I think he's going to have to put a lot of work into it. If he's up for that then he could be good, but I don't think he's going to have a big impact his rookie year.

E: I do think he has better throwing mechanics and a better motion than VY or Tebow had coming out of college, so he has that going for him. I think he's going to be plagued by accuracy issues like he showed at the combine.

76Texan
03-09-2011, 02:42 AM
He really has to evolve in the passing game by leaps and bounds in order to become a viable long time starting QB. I honestly don't think him doing what he did in college is going to work for more than a few games or so if it works at all. It'll be interesting to see where he goes (I don't believe Carolina is going to pick him #1 overall, that just seems so stupid), and whether he's thrown in early or not. The character concerns are a little bit more trivial to me than what I see of him on game tape. I'm not saying he has no shot whatsoever, but I think he's going to have to put a lot of work into it. If he's up for that then he could be good, but I don't think he's going to have a big impact his rookie year.

E: I do think he has better throwing mechanics and a better motion than VY or Tebow had coming out of college, so he has that going for him. I think he's going to be plagued by accuracy issues like he showed at the combine.If he's going to evolve in the passing game by leaps and bounds, he will be the best QB ever to play the game!

IDEXAN
03-09-2011, 06:49 AM
So how did his Pro-Day go in Auburn yesterday ?

BigBull17
03-09-2011, 07:10 AM
Vince made Pro Bowls, his team won games..... if that is Cam Newton's floor, that is pretty good.


:rolleyes:


I think he might develop into a Donovan McNabb type. Good, but turnover prone.

Except his ego and sense of entitlement will hinder his development. VY is a head case and he wasn't like Cam is now.

El Tejano
03-09-2011, 07:18 AM
Question: How is Cam Newton a worse QB than Vince Young or Tim Tebow?

He's not. He's got better skills and can read a defense better.

kiwitexansfan
03-09-2011, 07:24 AM
He's not. He's got better skills and can read a defense better.

#3 overall and what #15?

And yet people are saying Newton should be a second rounder?

I don't get it.

b0ng
03-09-2011, 09:26 AM
If he's going to evolve in the passing game by leaps and bounds, he will be the best QB ever to play the game!

Nah, if he improves his passing game by leaps and bounds he'll be 2010 Michael Vick, with hopefully less injuries. That's an awfully big jump in skill that I don't think he's going to take. As I said before though, at least his mechanics aren't bad and his release is fairly quick. Other than that he's got his legs and QB's who use their legs too much in the NFL usually don't last too long.

Playoffs
03-09-2011, 09:46 AM
I like him. Like his attitude/demeanor. Like his release. A leader's personality.

Needs to become a detail fanatic. If he can "see" it, I think he becomes a winner.

El Tejano
03-09-2011, 09:58 AM
I like him. Like his attitude/demeanor. Like his release. A leader's personality.

Needs to become a detail fanatic. If he can "see" it, I think he becomes a winner.

And that about sums up how I feel about Cam Newton. I think with the right team, like say Tennessee or Minnesota where he can have a running game to rely on while he works on the small details of being an NFL QB he can be a really good QB in this league.

Texecutioner
03-09-2011, 12:39 PM
Well for one Cam Newton is not as good as VY was when Vince came out. Vince had only lost one game in his last two seasons of playing and came out early as a Junior. Vince had early success in the NFL because he sort of just winged it a lot of times and made plays with his feet. That worked for a while. But the minute that he went into his 2nd season and DC's and their players got to watch a ton of film on VY, that's when he started to really struggle. Teams knew how to game plan for the scrambles a lot better and when VY couldn't throw the ball all around the field it got a lot tougher and his immaturity started to show and things just got worse going into season 3.

VY didn't have a horrible ego going into the league. It was never documented anywhere. He hadn't been extremely immature either. His coaches loved him. Cam Newton on the other hand has already shown a ton of signs to have a huge ego, to be a "ME" first kind of guy, and to not listen to his coaches. He's had character issues where he could have gotten his school in trouble and his own parents were involved with that. I wouldn't touch this kid with a ten foot pole especially after seeing the problems and issues that Jamarcus Russell had who was also not a sound passer at QB either who got way overrated after his bowl game. Running QB's have proven time and time again that they don't end up having long term success in the NFL. Even Michael Vick hasn't had long term success in the NFL. His success went down big time before his dog scandal, and he came back and bounced back big time with the help of one of the best receiving cores in the NFL, but don't be surprised if teams start figuring out Vick again like they did right before his dog fighting scandal. This is a passer's league.

76Texan
03-10-2011, 12:13 AM
Nah, if he improves his passing game by leaps and bounds he'll be 2010 Michael Vick, with hopefully less injuries. That's an awfully big jump in skill that I don't think he's going to take. As I said before though, at least his mechanics aren't bad and his release is fairly quick. Other than that he's got his legs and QB's who use their legs too much in the NFL usually don't last too long.

I am not a fan of QB who likes to scramble just because he doesn't know what to do with the ball.
Newton knows what to do with the ball.
It's not his fault that Mazlan called running plays specifically for him.
On the other hand, he only scrambled when there was nobody open or pressure was coming heavily.
He scrambled and looked to pass first.
He does not have happy feet.

Remember that his passing efficiency rating of 182.05 was second only to Kelen Moore of Boise St. (182.63) who played against a much weaker schedule.
Gabbert was a mere 127.04

His 10.19 yd per attempt (not completion) was top in the country.
(Andrew Luck number was 8.97; Gabbert was 6.71)

His TD Pct of 10.71 was top in the nation (Gabbert was 3.37).
That means he threw for a TD pass every 9 attempts while it took Gabbert more than 3 times as many (roughly 28 attempts).

He attempted 280 passes as compared to:
McElroy 313, Dalton, 316, Tolzien 266, Ponder 299.

His poise in the pocket was 100 times better than VY.
He knew where the pressure can come from because his pre-snap read is very good.
He will slide away from the pressure to complete a pass.
VY cannot hold his jock as far as understanding the passing game and different defenses.
He went through multiple reads in his progression often.
On one play, he impressed the heck out of me by going through all 5 reads (in a short period of time).
That is, he looked at all 5 receivers before delivering the ball.
That's unheard of in college ball.
I'm not sure I've ever seen Schaub going thru 4 reads, let alone 5.

He had an arm that Schaub can only dream about;
he can zip the ball on the medium route while also has the touch on the short route.
This is also extremely rare.

In short, he's a whole lot more advanced in the passing game than all of the QBs that I have followed the last 5 years or so (beginning with Leinart and VY). I wasn't much into football for a long while since the Oilers left town so I didn't know much about guys like Rodgers who came out a year earlier.
The only other QB that I liked was Sam Bradford.

Gabbert isn't terrible.
I think he's a little short in a few areas.
If he can take the coaching, he could be a good one because he also got the tools.
The mental aspect; however, will be the biggest thing that he (Gabbert) needs to improve on.

Newton already has it!

bah007
03-10-2011, 10:07 AM
So 76, are you saying that you think Newton is more advance than Bradford was coming out?

Texecutioner
03-10-2011, 10:26 AM
I am not a fan of QB who likes to scramble just because he doesn't know what to do with the ball.
Newton knows what to do with the ball.
It's not his fault that Mazlan called running plays specifically for him.
On the other hand, he only scrambled when there was nobody open or pressure was coming heavily.
He scrambled and looked to pass first.
He does not have happy feet.

Remember that his passing efficiency rating of 182.05 was second only to Kelen Moore of Boise St. (182.63) who played against a much weaker schedule.
Gabbert was a mere 127.04

His 10.19 yd per attempt (not completion) was top in the country.
(Andrew Luck number was 8.97; Gabbert was 6.71)

His TD Pct of 10.71 was top in the nation (Gabbert was 3.37).
That means he threw for a TD pass every 9 attempts while it took Gabbert more than 3 times as many (roughly 28 attempts).

He attempted 280 passes as compared to:
McElroy 313, Dalton, 316, Tolzien 266, Ponder 299.

His poise in the pocket was 100 times better than VY.
He knew where the pressure can come from because his pre-snap read is very good.
He will slide away from the pressure to complete a pass.
VY cannot hold his jock as far as understanding the passing game and different defenses.
He went through multiple reads in his progression often.
On one play, he impressed the heck out of me by going through all 5 reads (in a short period of time).
That is, he looked at all 5 receivers before delivering the ball.
That's unheard of in college ball.
I'm not sure I've ever seen Schaub going thru 4 reads, let alone 5.

He had an arm that Schaub can only dream about;
he can zip the ball on the medium route while also has the touch on the short route.
This is also extremely rare.

In short, he's a whole lot more advanced in the passing game than all of the QBs that I have followed the last 5 years or so (beginning with Leinart and VY). I wasn't much into football for a long while since the Oilers left town so I didn't know much about guys like Rodgers who came out a year earlier.
The only other QB that I liked was Sam Bradford.

Gabbert isn't terrible.
I think he's a little short in a few areas.
If he can take the coaching, he could be a good one because he also got the tools.
The mental aspect; however, will be the biggest thing that he (Gabbert) needs to improve on.

Newton already has it!

Seriously, how in the world can you say that Cam Newton was more advanced in the passing game than Leinart was when Leinart came out of college? I honestly have to ask if you even watched the guy to say something like that. Leinart was a great passer in college. That's all he did was pass and that's what made him a great QB in college. He was slow as a snail and that was his only weapon in what was probably the most prolific offense in college football. Cam isn't even close to how Leinart was in college as far as passing.

And I'd say Cam is right on par with where VY was in college as far as his passing and that's exactly why I question this guy as much as I do. QB's with his skill set have proven time and time again that they struggle at the next level. And Cam's ego and attitude has shown to be ten times worse than anything VY eve showed back then. And Cam was not ever going through 5 reads on multiple plays in games. Let's get serious for a second. Cam had a very easy offense to run. There was nothing complicated at all about it.

b0ng
03-11-2011, 08:04 AM
I am not a fan of QB who likes to scramble just because he doesn't know what to do with the ball.
Newton knows what to do with the ball.
It's not his fault that Mazlan called running plays specifically for him.
On the other hand, he only scrambled when there was nobody open or pressure was coming heavily.
He scrambled and looked to pass first.
He does not have happy feet.

Remember that his passing efficiency rating of 182.05 was second only to Kelen Moore of Boise St. (182.63) who played against a much weaker schedule.
Gabbert was a mere 127.04

His 10.19 yd per attempt (not completion) was top in the country.
(Andrew Luck number was 8.97; Gabbert was 6.71)

His TD Pct of 10.71 was top in the nation (Gabbert was 3.37).
That means he threw for a TD pass every 9 attempts while it took Gabbert more than 3 times as many (roughly 28 attempts).

He attempted 280 passes as compared to:
McElroy 313, Dalton, 316, Tolzien 266, Ponder 299.

His poise in the pocket was 100 times better than VY.
He knew where the pressure can come from because his pre-snap read is very good.
He will slide away from the pressure to complete a pass.
VY cannot hold his jock as far as understanding the passing game and different defenses.
He went through multiple reads in his progression often.
On one play, he impressed the heck out of me by going through all 5 reads (in a short period of time).
That is, he looked at all 5 receivers before delivering the ball.
That's unheard of in college ball.
I'm not sure I've ever seen Schaub going thru 4 reads, let alone 5.

He had an arm that Schaub can only dream about;
he can zip the ball on the medium route while also has the touch on the short route.
This is also extremely rare.

In short, he's a whole lot more advanced in the passing game than all of the QBs that I have followed the last 5 years or so (beginning with Leinart and VY). I wasn't much into football for a long while since the Oilers left town so I didn't know much about guys like Rodgers who came out a year earlier.
The only other QB that I liked was Sam Bradford.

Gabbert isn't terrible.
I think he's a little short in a few areas.
If he can take the coaching, he could be a good one because he also got the tools.
The mental aspect; however, will be the biggest thing that he (Gabbert) needs to improve on.

Newton already has it!

If you are really trying to tell me that Cam Newton is more advanced at passing than all the other QB's in the draft then I'm not sure what to tell you. Newton is not a polished passer in the least and he has accuracy issues that would make any NFL QB coach cry. He was in a run-first spread offense that concentrates almost exclusively on shotgun sets. He did take a snap under center maybe twice or three times a game and that was it. Bringing up all these comparisons about how VY was better or vice versa is silly as they are two different players, albeit with a very similar skill set.

And talking about Newtons mental aspect after all of the hoopla surrounding his comments at the combine seems awfully silly. Those comments right there scream red flag everywhere they go. It's nice that he was able to play through all of the media scrutiny Auburn was receiving due to all the dirty deals associated with Newton and his father. But would you really draft that guy #1 overall? Really? That seems like such a more colossal blunder than taking VY at #3. One team may draft Newton high (I would think that Chan Gailey would be the coach who could get the most out of that guy), but in no way do I think a guy who has as checkered of a past as Newton with some inacurracy and not too great throwing mechanics as well as a run first mentality is not going to make it in the NFL.

And please don't bring up how awesome Newton was in college, there have been plenty of great college QB's that don't have a translateable game to the NFL. Pretty sure this is where Newton falls.

76Texan
03-11-2011, 10:48 AM
So 76, are you saying that you think Newton is more advance than Bradford was coming out?

Bah, I did say that the other QB that I liked was Sam Bradford.
I thought he could have come out a year earlier (meaning that he was ready),
even though I'm not among those who wants instant gratification.
When I take a guy at #1 to be a franchise QB, I still prefer the coaches to have a develomental program, playing a veteran QB and let the young guy catching a bit of the action when situations allow.
The sooner he can show that he's really ready, the more playing time he would get.

76Texan
03-11-2011, 11:01 AM
Seriously, how in the world can you say that Cam Newton was more advanced in the passing game than Leinart was when Leinart came out of college? I honestly have to ask if you even watched the guy to say something like that. Leinart was a great passer in college. That's all he did was pass and that's what made him a great QB in college. He was slow as a snail and that was his only weapon in what was probably the most prolific offense in college football. Cam isn't even close to how Leinart was in college as far as passing.

And I'd say Cam is right on par with where VY was in college as far as his passing and that's exactly why I question this guy as much as I do. QB's with his skill set have proven time and time again that they struggle at the next level. And Cam's ego and attitude has shown to be ten times worse than anything VY eve showed back then. And Cam was not ever going through 5 reads on multiple plays in games. Let's get serious for a second. Cam had a very easy offense to run. There was nothing complicated at all about it.

I just went back and rewatch the 06 Rose Bowl.
I agree with you that Leinart was a great QB in college.
There were two things that he can do very well:

1. Getting the ball to a wide-open receiver with no pressure up his face.

2. Getting the ball to receivers on quick, short or short-medium routes that were the core of the version of the WCO that they ran at USC.

Besides that, I can pick apart his game and shows why he was still lacking in many areas as an NFL prospect.

You may not be aware that I was fine with:
- not bringing Carr back the year that VY, Bush, Mario, and Leinart came out.
- trading Carr, most likely getting at least a 3rd pick - in 05, he still had some value.
- because of the want of a QB, bringing in a vet to start, trading down to draft Leinart and an extra pick for another position of need.

So it wasn't like I said that Leinart was trash.

What I can say is that "Yes, Newton is more advance than Leinart in the passing game as a prospect coming out of college".

Mazlan passing attack is more "vertical oriented" than the WCO at USC.
Leinart doesn't have the arm and therefore, his coaches didn't draw up much of the deep ball for him (35-40 yds and more).
As far as passing is concern, one of the important attributes that Newton has (and Leinart lacking at the time) is to get the ball out on time to the receiver.
The other important attribute, I've already stated: Newton played better under pressure.

I might have to break down a game from each so that people can see that the offense that Newton was in does not belong in the simple category.
Or at least, it involves more complex routes for the receivers than what Leinart saw in the WCO.

kiwitexansfan
03-11-2011, 11:17 AM
I think 76 is right that scheme really helped Lienart.

Whoever was plugged into Carrol's offense did well.

76Texan
03-11-2011, 11:17 AM
If you are really trying to tell me that Cam Newton is more advanced at passing than all the other QB's in the draft then I'm not sure what to tell you. Newton is not a polished passer in the least and he has accuracy issues that would make any NFL QB coach cry. He was in a run-first spread offense that concentrates almost exclusively on shotgun sets. He did take a snap under center maybe twice or three times a game and that was it. Bringing up all these comparisons about how VY was better or vice versa is silly as they are two different players, albeit with a very similar skill set.

And talking about Newtons mental aspect after all of the hoopla surrounding his comments at the combine seems awfully silly. Those comments right there scream red flag everywhere they go. It's nice that he was able to play through all of the media scrutiny Auburn was receiving due to all the dirty deals associated with Newton and his father. But would you really draft that guy #1 overall? Really? That seems like such a more colossal blunder than taking VY at #3. One team may draft Newton high (I would think that Chan Gailey would be the coach who could get the most out of that guy), but in no way do I think a guy who has as checkered of a past as Newton with some inacurracy and not too great throwing mechanics as well as a run first mentality is not going to make it in the NFL.

And please don't bring up how awesome Newton was in college, there have been plenty of great college QB's that don't have a translateable game to the NFL. Pretty sure this is where Newton falls.

The mistake that people normally thought of Newton is that he ran a spread offense. (Read my above post.)
That would be Gabbert's cup of tea.
There's nothing wrong with the spread offense anyway; just look at Brady and the Patriots.
Manning and the Colts also employ the spread a lot.

When you say that Newton has accuracy problem, it makes me cringe.
For a guy that is "inaccurate" his completion pct of 66% plus is higher than other guys who throw more short passes (Gabbert, for example, was at 63.37%).
(It was probably his showing at the combine that led you to such a misguided conclusion.)

Hagar
03-11-2011, 11:37 AM
Eventually, the NFL is going to come up with a scheme to fit an athletic QB and its going to revolutionize the game. It almost happened with Micheal Vick in Atlanta. If I remember correctly, the Falcon's didn't have alot of talent on the team until Vick took over and led them to the playoffs.

I thought it was going to happen with VY, but his personality and lack of foresight by the Titans screwed that situation. Still Vince has a 26-13 won loss record, which is pretty good.

If the NFL team that takes Newton develops a system that fits Newton's skill instead of trying to cram him into a set offense like what happened with Vick and Yound, the sky is the limit.

Now don't get me wrong, Newton has got to work hard. I mean, after all this is the NFL were talking about but all indications are that this kid has a pretty good work ethic. The other question always remains is what happens to him after he gets a ton of cash?

bah007
03-11-2011, 11:39 AM
Eventually, the NFL is going to come up with a scheme to fit an athletic QB and its going to revolutionize the game. It almost happened with Micheal Vick in Atlanta. If I remember correctly, the Falcon's didn't have alot of talent on the team until Vick took over and led them to the playoffs.

I thought it was going to happen with VY, but his personality and lack of foresight by the Titans screwed that situation. Still Vince has a 26-13 won loss record, which is pretty good.

If the NFL team that takes Newton develops a system that fits Newton's skill instead of trying to cram him into a set offense like what happened with Vick and Yound, the sky is the limit.

Now don't get me wrong, Newton has got to work hard. I mean, after all this is the NFL were talking about but all indications are that this kid has a pretty good work ethic. The other question always remains is what happens to him after he gets a ton of cash?

We already know the answer to that one. He picks Auburn.

kiwitexansfan
03-11-2011, 11:41 AM
We already know the answer to that one. He picks Auburn.

It was his daddy, Cam had NO idea.
:kitten:

beerlover
03-11-2011, 11:44 AM
The mistake that people normally thought of Newton is that he ran a spread offense. (Read my above post.)
That would be Gabbert's cup of tea.
There's nothing wrong with the spread offense anyway; just look at Brady and the Patriots.
Manning and the Colts also employ the spread a lot.

When you say that Newton has accuracy problem, it makes me cringe.
For a guy that is "inaccurate" his completion pct of 66% plus is higher than other guys who throw more short passes (Gabbert, for example, was at 63.37%).
(It was probably his showing at the combine that led you to such a misguided conclusion.)

there is a difference between making College throws vs Pro throws into tight windows 15-20 yards in 3 seconds or less. Most of Cam's success to support those numbers came when he extended plays, created time as needed, then delivered when WR came open. its a different thing & that is what he struggled with @ the combine. It was unwise for him to throw @ the combine but that was induced by his media day extravaganza he created in the first place. Suggests to me that he is a true diva which is not something most teams (coaches) really want to deal with regardless how well he looks in practice or in precious game film :shades:

76Texan
03-11-2011, 11:51 AM
I think 76 is right that scheme really helped Lienart.Whoever was plugged into Carrol's offense did well.

Not only that; look at what Leinart had to work with besides Bush and Lendale White:
FB David Kirtman, drafted at #163 in 06 (he contributed in the passing game in 06, including a couple of nice catches in the Rose Bowl)

WR Keary Colbert, drafted at #62 in 04
WR Mike Williams, drafted at #10 in 05
TE Dominique Byrd, drafted at #93 in 06
WR Dwayne Jarret, drafted at #45 in 07
WR Steve Smith, drafted at #51 in 07
TE Fred Davis, drafted at #48 in 08 (he contributed in 06, including the Rose Bowl)
And his O-line:
OT Jacob Rogers, drafted at #52 in 04
OT Winston Justice, drafted at #39 in 06
OG Fred Matua, drafted at #237 in 06
OG Taitusi Lutui, drafted at #41 in 06
C Ryan Kalil, drafted at #59 in 07
OT Sam Baker, drafted at #21 in 07
OG Chilo Rachal, drafted at #39 in 07

BTW, Leinart's completion percentage was 65% in 06 in that WCO

76Texan
03-11-2011, 11:55 AM
there is a difference between making College throws vs Pro throws into tight windows 15-20 yards in 3 seconds or less. Most of Cam's success to support those numbers came when he extended plays, created time as needed, then delivered when WR came open. its a different thing & that is what he struggled with @ the combine. It was unwise for him to throw @ the combine but that was induced by his media day extravaganza he created in the first place. Suggests to me that he is a true diva which is not something most teams (coaches) really want to deal with regardless how well he looks in practice or in precious game film :shades:

I wouldn't say that most of his success came from that.
But at any rate, that is another positive attribute that he possesses.
The ability to extend plays.

76Texan
03-11-2011, 12:00 PM
Eventually, the NFL is going to come up with a scheme to fit an athletic QB and its going to revolutionize the game. It almost happened with Micheal Vick in Atlanta. If I remember correctly, the Falcon's didn't have alot of talent on the team until Vick took over and led them to the playoffs.

I thought it was going to happen with VY, but his personality and lack of foresight by the Titans screwed that situation. Still Vince has a 26-13 won loss record, which is pretty good.

If the NFL team that takes Newton develops a system that fits Newton's skill instead of trying to cram him into a set offense like what happened with Vick and Yound, the sky is the limit.

Now don't get me wrong, Newton has got to work hard. I mean, after all this is the NFL were talking about but all indications are that this kid has a pretty good work ethic. The other question always remains is what happens to him after he gets a ton of cash?

Andy Reid and the Eagles did a pretty good job with Vick this year, I'm sure you'd agree with that.

76Texan
03-11-2011, 12:05 PM
there is a difference between making College throws vs Pro throws into tight windows 15-20 yards in 3 seconds or less. Most of Cam's success to support those numbers came when he extended plays, created time as needed, then delivered when WR came open. its a different thing & that is what he struggled with @ the combine. It was unwise for him to throw @ the combine but that was induced by his media day extravaganza he created in the first place. Suggests to me that he is a true diva which is not something most teams (coaches) really want to deal with regardless how well he looks in practice or in precious game film :shades:

Also, since you claim this point, can you bring up some examples in which you didn't see him being able to do this???

I've seen him done that!
And that's what I mean by getting the ball out on time to the receiver.

This is what his coach had to say:
Q: What are his strengths?
A: "He can throw the football on time. He's very good at that..."

infantrycak
03-11-2011, 12:09 PM
Also, since you claim this point, can you bring up some examples in which you didn't see him being able to do this???

I am just going to throw in there is a difference between college and the pros. VY was 65 % in his last year in college and then 51.5% his first year in the pros. Five years in he is 57.9 overall.

76Texan
03-11-2011, 12:15 PM
I am just going to throw in there is a difference between college and the pros. VY was 65 % in his last year in college and then 51.5% his first year in the pros. Five years in he is 57.9 overall.

Leinart was also in the low to mid 50s range in his first 3 years with the Cards.

And I has been giving a lot of reason why!

Hagar
03-11-2011, 12:27 PM
Andy Reid and the Eagles did a pretty good job with Vick this year, I'm sure you'd agree with that.I'd agree. The Eagles have done the best job of fitting thier system to an athletic QB then either the Titans or Falcons. I'd also say that Vick made more adjustments to his game to fit into the Eagles system now that he's older and had football taken away from him.

76Texan
03-13-2011, 01:07 PM
Former Cowboys personnel man Gil Brandt was a draft guru even before other NFL teams had true draft gurus.

So we take his accrued experience seriously, and his experience says that talent always wins out in the draft. And Brandt thinks Auburn quarterback Cam Newton is the most talented player available.

“It would shock me . . . if he’s not the first player picked,” Brandt told the Forth Worth Star-Telegram on Monday. “If I was drafting and I had Carolina’s [No. 1] pick, I’d feel really good about who I was getting as far as ability. I just hope he realizes how hard he needs to work.”




http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/22/gil-brandt-would-be-shocked-if-cam-newton-isnt-taken-first-overall

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/09/bills-dined-with-cam-newton-who-sets-up-carolina-visit

beerlover
03-13-2011, 11:05 PM
Former Cowboys personnel man Gil Brandt was a draft guru even before other NFL teams had true draft gurus.

So we take his accrued experience seriously, and his experience says that talent always wins out in the draft. And Brandt thinks Auburn quarterback Cam Newton is the most talented player available.

“It would shock me . . . if he’s not the first player picked,” Brandt told the Forth Worth Star-Telegram on Monday. “If I was drafting and I had Carolina’s [No. 1] pick, I’d feel really good about who I was getting as far as ability. I just hope he realizes how hard he needs to work.”




http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/22/gil-brandt-would-be-shocked-if-cam-newton-isnt-taken-first-overall

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/09/bills-dined-with-cam-newton-who-sets-up-carolina-visit

there in lies the rub & you of all people Brandt should know not to hope.

what I saw against a overwhelmed & undersized Oregon was a QB who lost his legs in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. The promotions, cross country tours & personal appearances finally caught up with him on the media circuit. no thanks, I'm not buying in.

Wolf6151
03-13-2011, 11:30 PM
Cam Newton has all the physical talents but he seems to be more intent on becoming a media star than on being a star QB. Jamarcus Russell, Michael Vick the early years, and VY part 2.

76Texan
03-14-2011, 12:46 AM
there in lies the rub & you of all people Brandt should know not to hope.what I saw against a overwhelmed & undersized Oregon was a QB who lost his legs in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. The promotions, cross country tours & personal appearances finally caught up with him on the media circuit. no thanks, I'm not buying in.

This is the bolded part where Brandt puts his disclaimer, that no matter what god-talent-given you have, you still need to work hard.

What I saw was a guy who went through a lot of difficulties to win a NJCAA championship, then a NCAA championship.
That was a different path from a Matt Leinart or David Carr, who get used to have a silver spoon in his mouth.

Those were facts.

I'm not in the business of judging people or character.
I'm not "predicting" the guy to go first in the draft.
I can only see what I saw on the field:
Newton is the best QB draft prospect this year based on talent and everything that he brings onto the field.

76Texan
03-14-2011, 01:01 AM
there is a difference between making College throws vs Pro throws into tight windows 15-20 yards in 3 seconds or less. Most of Cam's success to support those numbers came when he extended plays, created time as needed, then delivered when WR came open. its a different thing & that is what he struggled with @ the combine. It was unwise for him to throw @ the combine but that was induced by his media day extravaganza he created in the first place. Suggests to me that he is a true diva which is not something most teams (coaches) really want to deal with regardless how well he looks in practice or in precious game film :shades:

Once more, do you have evidence to support this claim that Newton was unable to do this?

76Texan
03-14-2011, 02:19 AM
what I saw against a overwhelmed & undersized Oregon was a QB who lost his legs in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. The promotions, cross country tours & personal appearances finally caught up with him on the media circuit. no thanks, I'm not buying in.

I don't know if you've read the posts that I analyzed the championship game.
It should have been a blow out already in the first half.

Except the Oregon defense was playing very, very well the whole game while the Auburn skill players were dropping a fews.

This is the complete opposite of the Insight Bowl, wherein Gabbert saw a softer zone than the Texans' even when Iowa dropped into a 5-3 zone.
When Gabbert didn't have a huge ocean to drop his rock into, his receivers (including the TE in title only) would bail him out time and again.

You claim that you saw a QB who lost his leg in the 4th, how about you analyze the 4th quarter for us spectator.
(The devil is in the minuscule details, I must forewarn.)
I don't enjoy putting people in a spot, so let me just spring my observations.
When I did the partial analysis in that game, I kinda said I don't need to finish the whole game (it's more or less the same, there was no need);
I kinda concluded that for the whole game, Newton's game was really all you can ask for: hardly any mistakes, no major mistake, timely plays here and there; he did pretty much everything except catching the ball himself.
I honestly do not understand how anybody can find anything near to a fault in his performance the whole game through.

b0ng
03-15-2011, 05:18 PM
Still Vince has a 26-13 won loss record, which is pretty good.



VY's win/loss record has so much more to do with the general makeup of that teams defense that it's not even funny. That's the same team Kerry Collins basically lead to a 13-3 season record.

b0ng
03-15-2011, 05:23 PM
The mistake that people normally thought of Newton is that he ran a spread offense. (Read my above post.)
That would be Gabbert's cup of tea.
There's nothing wrong with the spread offense anyway; just look at Brady and the Patriots.
Manning and the Colts also employ the spread a lot.

When you say that Newton has accuracy problem, it makes me cringe.
For a guy that is "inaccurate" his completion pct of 66% plus is higher than other guys who throw more short passes (Gabbert, for example, was at 63.37%).
(It was probably his showing at the combine that led you to such a misguided conclusion.)

Yes, just look at his throws at the combine. There have been plenty of QB's who could rock decent completion percentages in college but not in the pro game. I think you are misinterpreting what I am trying to say. I'm not saying Newton is going to be terrible as a pro and will amount to nothing, I am saying that Newton has a lot of ****ing flaws for a #1 overall pick to have.

Again, the college game and the pro game are different speeds much less different games in nuance and such. Taking a guy that high who made most of his money with his feet and shaking off pass rushers on the college level is inviting the worst sorts of disasters to befall your team. First round? Sure I'd take a flyer on the guy, he did a hell of a lot in college and you could probably work with him to make him serviceable and maybe even good. But at #1 you need a guy who can probably step in and start, and right now, Newton looks to be about the least NFL-ready QB in this draft.

Hagar
03-15-2011, 05:53 PM
VY's win/loss record has so much more to do with the general makeup of that teams defense that it's not even funny. That's the same team Kerry Collins basically lead to a 13-3 season record.
Oh, this is like a sound clip by a reporter who only looks at one side of the issue. Yes, Kerry went 13-3 in 2008, then went 0-6 in 2009. After which VY brought the team back with what record??? I don't think I'd hang my hat on Kerry Collin's reputation.

Do I think VY is an NFL caliber QB? No, he's got to grow up first. But to say this man doesn't have talent, is not exactly correct either. Let's face it, he's playing for Bud Adams who's main reason for drafting him was to get back at Houston (speculation of course, but I think I'm right).

76Texan
03-15-2011, 11:35 PM
Yes, just look at his throws at the combine. There have been plenty of QB's who could rock decent completion percentages in college but not in the pro game. I think you are misinterpreting what I am trying to say. I'm not saying Newton is going to be terrible as a pro and will amount to nothing, I am saying that Newton has a lot of ****ing flaws for a #1 overall pick to have.

Again, the college game and the pro game are different speeds much less different games in nuance and such. Taking a guy that high who made most of his money with his feet and shaking off pass rushers on the college level is inviting the worst sorts of disasters to befall your team. First round? Sure I'd take a flyer on the guy, he did a hell of a lot in college and you could probably work with him to make him serviceable and maybe even good. But at #1 you need a guy who can probably step in and start, and right now, Newton looks to be about the least NFL-ready QB in this draft.
I don't want to misinterpret what you want to say.
You are concerned that he hasn't been under center much, which is a legitimate concern if your team run a pro set.
But when you said that, you forgot about guys like Gabbert who has never been under center (correct me if I'm wrong).

I have repeated a few times that I am not talking about the number one prospect overall in the draft (because I don't study the top-rated defensive guys closely - to me that means at least seven games watched, isolating on the subject; learning about the oppositions that the guy faces; etc.)

Here, I'm only talking about who I think is the number one QB prospect in this draft; therefore, it is easy for me to choose Newton over Gabbert (and the rest.)

I've posted in a different thread that in the 3-4 snaps per game that Newton was under center, I had seen him perform all the tasks a pro-set QB is required to perform, including play action fake drop back pass, seven-step drop back pass, fake reverse then pass, play action fake then roll out pass, besides handing the ball off to the RB in a one-back or two back set.
Not one single mishap in those intances (correct me if I missed any of his mistake in this department.)

In the running game, Newton is more ready to adapt to the pro game (than Gabbert for example) since his offense operates with 2 and even 3 backs quite often.
It's a unique system in which there is an I-formation (among others) in their running game.
In other words, Newton already understands the concept of playing with a FB and a true TE (unlike some other QBs in this draft, including Gabbert who doesn't know what a FB nor a TE is.)
So when you said Newton is the least-NFL-ready QB, I have to strongly disagree, sorry!

76Texan
03-16-2011, 01:00 AM
there in lies the rub & you of all people Brandt should know not to hope.

what I saw against a overwhelmed & undersized Oregon was a QB who lost his legs in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. The promotions, cross country tours & personal appearances finally caught up with him on the media circuit. no thanks, I'm not buying in.

Here's what a "overwhelmed and undersized Oregon defense" does for you.

Before even attempting a pass, Newton was sacked twice (quickly) and had to pull up and run 5 times (because pressure was getting super hot).

The numbers that I gathered here may be incorrect, but any miscount only works against Newton.

Newton was 20-35 for the game (57%, which is under his norm) and 265 yards (7.6 yd per attempt, which is still good).

What you may not realize is that out of the 15 attempts that he didn't connect, I counted something like 13 when he was under pressure, mostly heavy, or enough to force him to throw a hair early, scramble and try to complete a pass, or simply just throw the ball away.
The other 3 were dropped passes (including the one in the end zone where the intended receiver should have turned around once he got into the end zone to look for the pass when he was wide open, but for whatever reason kept going toward the side line; and the one in which the receiver didn't pay attention to where he was along the side line - Newton was under some pressure on this one also.)

There were at least 4 occasions where Newton somehow completed the pass with heavy heavy pressure boring down on him.

There were at least 5 completed short passes in which the pressure was coming. You're talking about 1-1/2 second something like that. Without a quick release, and a couple of quick decisions, these would have resulted in incompletions as well.

It doesn't matter whether it was the SEC or the NFL or Pee Wee league, a QB under pressure is always less effective just the same.

Again, as I've said, this is the exact opposite of what Gabbert saw in the Insight Bowl or Leinart saw in the Rose Bowl (and other games for both of them).

And it's only the beginning of why I believe Newton is more advance than most QBs in the draft since the Texans organization first started.
I like Sam Bradford as well, but I am not sure (that I can recall) Bradford perform as well under constant pressure throughout the whole game like that

76Texan
03-16-2011, 01:19 AM
Now, I do admit here there's a plus but also a minus, the fact that he was able to avoid pressure.

The minus is we don't know how he will stand up to the hits in the NFL.
The plus is that he very well could continue to know how to apply himself to the situation, that is to avoid getting hit in the first place.
And this could prolong his career longer than those who's too willing to stand in the pocket to make a play (like Kolb when he was at UH and also with the Eagles.)

Texecutioner
03-29-2011, 02:45 PM
Here is one of the latest write ups on Cam Newton from Pro football Weekly which goes right along with what I described my opinions of the guy when I started the thread. Interesting take though and I stand pat that an early Cam Newton pick will be a huge mistake. Buyer Beware is all over Cam Newton.

Read Below.



Under "negatives" for Newton, Nawrocki writes, "Very disingenuous — has a fake smile, comes off as very scripted and has a selfish, me-first makeup. Always knows where the cameras are and plays to them. Has an enormous ego with a sense of entitlement that continually invites trouble and makes him believe he is above the law — does not command respect from teammates and will always struggle to win a locker room . . . Lacks accountability, focus and trustworthiness — is not punctual, seeks shortcuts and sets a bad example. Immature and has had issues with authority. Not dependable."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/PFW-Draft-Guide-rips-Newton-personally-8211-h?urn=nfl-wp657

Mr teX
03-29-2011, 03:32 PM
Here is one of the latest write ups on Cam Newton from Pro football Weekly which goes right along with what I described my opinions of the guy when I started the thread. Interesting take though and I stand pat that an early Cam Newton pick will be a huge mistake. Buyer Beware is all over Cam Newton.

Read Below.



Under "negatives" for Newton, Nawrocki writes, "Very disingenuous — has a fake smile, comes off as very scripted and has a selfish, me-first makeup. Always knows where the cameras are and plays to them. Has an enormous ego with a sense of entitlement that continually invites trouble and makes him believe he is above the law — does not command respect from teammates and will always struggle to win a locker room . . . Lacks accountability, focus and trustworthiness — is not punctual, seeks shortcuts and sets a bad example. Immature and has had issues with authority. Not dependable."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/PFW-Draft-Guide-rips-Newton-personally-8211-h?urn=nfl-wp657

He obviously has it in for the guy for whatever reason. Some of it is understandable, but i can't see Auburn being as successful as they were if the bolded was true. Teams typically come apart if that stuff is going on..Auburn did nothing but circle the wagons when all that crap was swirling around him.

I don't think he'll be all that good but my opinion of him is based purely off of his game & how it's going to translate to the NFL. This dude just did a pyschoanalysis on him..

beerlover
03-30-2011, 11:12 AM
He obviously has it in for the guy for whatever reason. Some of it is understandable, but i can't see Auburn being as successful as they were if the bolded was true. Teams typically come apart if that stuff is going on..Auburn did nothing but circle the wagons when all that crap was swirling around him.

I don't think he'll be all that good but my opinion of him is based purely off of his game & how it's going to translate to the NFL. This dude just did a pyschoanalysis on him..

Nawrocki is one of the most respected scouts out there, so his word does carry some weight.

kiwitexansfan
04-01-2011, 08:42 AM
He obviously has it in for the guy for whatever reason.

I think you meant to say, He obviously has it in for the guy for racists reasons.

You are Warren Moon aren't you?

76Texan
04-01-2011, 09:37 AM
Nawrocki is one of the most respected scouts out there, so his word does carry some weight.

It sounded more like an April fool joke, but if I run an organization, I wouldn't turn a blind eye on anything.

The fact is, however, that this is an entertainment business.
Each owner has a different business model.
Some may think of it more as family entertainment; others may think of it Hollywood style or Las Vegas style.
Some owner may have a zero tolerance policy on certain things, while others may not share the same view.

It is quite possible that Newton may be dropped off the list of some teams; but that is just pure speculation on my part.
I'm just saying that it's up to each team to decide what their policies are regarding recruitment/employment.
I'm not even saying that I would sign off on drafting Newton if I was an owner.

Mr teX
04-02-2011, 09:33 AM
I think you meant to say, He obviously has it in for the guy for racists reasons.

You are Warren Moon aren't you?

Don't put words in my mouth...As i understand it, he's never met Cam Newton & its irresponsible of him as a journalist to write some of what he did without even having met the guy. Furthermore, that "whatever reason" could be anything including what you suggest i mean.

kiwitexansfan
04-02-2011, 01:04 PM
Don't put words in my mouth...As i understand it, he's never met Cam Newton & its irresponsible of him as a journalist to write some of what he did without even having met the guy. Furthermore, that "whatever reason" could be anything including what you suggest i mean.

Ummm, I was using humour.

Have you not read that Moon came out on this being a race issue.

I was taking your post as an opportunity to poke fan at him, not you.

steelbtexan
04-03-2011, 09:51 AM
Warren: You are a wife beating scum,

You suck

Choker

Buffalo

Racist

Lucky
04-03-2011, 12:48 PM
There were rumors regarding JaMarcus Russell's (lack of) work ethic prior to the 2007 draft. But no one came out and put their name next to them, as Nawrocki has with Newton. I think with the instant news that's available (twitter, blogs, etc.), the internet journalists feel the need to one up each other. Fans are always craving more and more info, but sometimes we get what seems to be too much. I think you could find someone to say something negative about any prospect entering the draft, if you tried. Cam Newton's the biggest name in this draft, thus the biggest target.

Warren Moon playing the race card - :smiliepalm:

mussop
04-04-2011, 07:38 AM
He's not. He's got better skills and can read a defense better.

Newton was in a one read and go system. He has light years to go before he will be able to read pro defenses. He's going to be just like VY, he will have to rely on his athletic ability to survive. My bet is he is VY 2. He'll never make it. To much ego and not near enough drive or technique to be a succesful pro QB.

Mr teX
04-04-2011, 07:54 AM
Ummm, I was using humour.

Have you not read that Moon came out on this being a race issue.

I was taking your post as an opportunity to poke fan at him, not you.

oops..sorry..:backsout:

steelbtexan
04-04-2011, 08:01 AM
Has anybody considered that the Oilers would still be in Houston. If Moon spent as much time preparing for games as he did in the gentlemens clubs. (Sorry Bill)

Thanks Warren you wife beater/choker.

Blake
04-04-2011, 08:03 AM
How dare you people bash a kid with down syndrome!

Wait, he doesn't have down syndrome? He is just dumb? ....carry on.

Mr teX
04-04-2011, 08:03 AM
There were rumors regarding JaMarcus Russell's (lack of) work ethic prior to the 2007 draft. But no one came out and put their name next to them, as Nawrocki has with Newton. I think with the instant news that's available (twitter, blogs, etc.), the internet journalists feel the need to one up each other. Fans are always craving more and more info, but sometimes we get what seems to be too much. I think you could find someone to say something negative about any prospect entering the draft, if you tried. Cam Newton's the biggest name in this draft, thus the biggest target.

Warren Moon playing the race card - :smiliepalm:

i'm tired of people bringing this up..like it somehow makes it ok for him to say some of what he said. It also doesn't lend this enormous amount of credibility either. Anyone with eyes could've looked at Jamarcus Russell & guessed that his work ethic was trash...dude was a 260 lb qb for christs sakes.

Texecutioner
04-04-2011, 10:11 AM
i'm tired of people bringing this up..like it somehow makes it ok for him to say some of what he said. It also doesn't lend this enormous amount of credibility either. Anyone with eyes could've looked at Jamarcus Russell & guessed that his work ethic was trash...dude was a 260 lb qb for christs sakes.

There were a ton of people trying to present Jamarcus Russell as this next big thing. Right after he had that huge bowl game he got enormous hype. I never understood it at the time since he was never even a Heisman candidate. He was good in all in college but after that bowl game he became the filet Minon of QB's all of a sudden. Cam's a better athlete than Jamarcus Russell, but there are waaaayyyy more questions surrounding Cam Newton's character and his history already than what Jamarcus ever had. Cam may not be as lazy and he might be more athletic, but he's not more refined as a passer at all, and that's ultimately what you're looking for. Cam has already had the scandals in college, he's already talking about himself in 3rd person, and he already has a very poor reputation as far as his attitude is concerned way before this recent scout report was issued out. It's not weird that this one came out at all, and the fact that Warren Moon made this issue into one about race when black and white QB's are criticized coming into the draft every off season just puts a big egg on Warren Moon face and might have cost him a media job down the line since he's been trying to work up the ladder for quite a few years.

Lucky
04-04-2011, 11:36 PM
i'm tired of people bringing this up..like it somehow makes it ok for him to say some of what he said. It also doesn't lend this enormous amount of credibility either. Anyone with eyes could've looked at Jamarcus Russell & guessed that his work ethic was trash...dude was a 260 lb qb for christs sakes.
If you're tired, try taking a nap. Because I'm going to say pretty much what I want.

And it is OK for Nawrocki to say what he wants. Then, he will be judged by his own words and found credible or not. Everything Nawrocki said about Newton's personality could be true, and Newton could still be the top pick and an outstanding NFL player. Nothing says that someone must be a good person to be a good player (example: Moon, Warren).

mussop
04-06-2011, 04:14 PM
i'm tired of people bringing this up..like it somehow makes it ok for him to say some of what he said. It also doesn't lend this enormous amount of credibility either. Anyone with eyes could've looked at Jamarcus Russell & guessed that his work ethic was trash...dude was a 260 lb qb for christs sakes.

It is ok to say everything he said. Personality traits and character are on every players evaluation and there is nothing wrong with that.

Texecutioner
04-06-2011, 04:17 PM
i'm tired of people bringing this up..like it somehow makes it ok for him to say some of what he said. It also doesn't lend this enormous amount of credibility either. Anyone with eyes could've looked at Jamarcus Russell & guessed that his work ethic was trash...dude was a 260 lb qb for christs sakes.

He got evaluated just like hundreds of others year after year have before him. His just was more on the negative side because of his actions and his history among other things.

Mr teX
04-07-2011, 08:32 AM
If you're tired, try taking a nap. Because I'm going to say pretty much what I want.

And it is OK for Nawrocki to say what he wants. Then, he will be judged by his own words and found credible or not. Everything Nawrocki said about Newton's personality could be true, and Newton could still be the top pick and an outstanding NFL player. Nothing says that someone must be a good person to be a good player (example: Moon, Warren).

1st let me preface by saying I could care less what happens with Newton in the draft & what people think of him. But C'mon lucky, there is no way you can read what he wrote & not come away (at least initially) thinking "whoa, this dude just went in on him...". Then you find out that he hadn't even personally met the guy & you wonder even more. I mean with statements like "fake smile" & "plays to the camera.." what's that about? Furthermore, name me a player expected to go in the top 1/2 of the 1st round who was not prepped up by his agent & god knows who else that doesn't "know where the cameras are at this stage in the evaluation point." yet for some reason he felt the need to mention it in Cam's "negatives" report. We all know he had plenty of practice at it during the season at Auburn last year.

I don't know, I just don't think that being comfortable in front of camera (more so than most of these kids at this stage) is such a "negative" thing as he lists it...especially for a qb. Hell i remember BJ Raji crashing the set & practically doing stand up with Rich Eisen & company on the NFL Network the year he entered the draft.


My statement about being tired of people bringing up Russell was more towards folks bringing up Nawrocki being right about him as if that wasn't at all obvious to many. In reality, most people with a decent eye weren't buying the hype about him for 1 reason or another despite his last bowl performance & his amazing arm strength. At least bring up someone else that was a little less obvious like a Micheal Huff or a Vernon Gholston.

infantrycak
04-07-2011, 09:27 AM
I don't know, I just don't think that being comfortable in front of camera (more so than most of these kids at this stage) is such a "negative" thing as he lists it...especially for a qb. Hell i remember BJ Raji crashing the set & practically doing stand up with Rich Eisen & company on the NFL Network the year he entered the draft.

Being comfortable in front of a camera is one thing. Believing yourself to be an icon before playing down one in the NFL and giving off a real prima donna vibe are another. The latter points to guys who won't take coaching well because they believe they are already great, who may not be hard workers for the same reason, who will potentially lose their teammates, may be huge contract problems and may not deal with adversity well. Cam clearly has talent. The question is if he has any humility.

steelbtexan
04-07-2011, 09:40 AM
1st let me preface by saying I could care less what happens with Newton in the draft & what people think of him. But C'mon lucky, there is no way you can read what he wrote & not come away (at least initially) thinking "whoa, this dude just went in on him...". Then you find out that he hadn't even personally met the guy & you wonder even more. I mean with statements like "fake smile" & "plays to the camera.." what's that about? Furthermore, name me a player expected to go in the top 1/2 of the 1st round who was not prepped up by his agent & god knows who else that doesn't "know where the cameras are at this stage in the evaluation point." yet for some reason he felt the need to mention it in Cam's "negatives" report. We all know he had plenty of practice at it during the season at Auburn last year.

I don't know, I just don't think that being comfortable in front of camera (more so than most of these kids at this stage) is such a "negative" thing as he lists it...especially for a qb. Hell i remember BJ Raji crashing the set & practically doing stand up with Rich Eisen & company on the NFL Network the year he entered the draft.


My statement about being tired of people bringing up Russell was more towards folks bringing up Nawrocki being right about him as if that wasn't at all obvious to many. In reality, most people with a decent eye weren't buying the hype about him for 1 reason or another despite his last bowl performance & his amazing arm strength. At least bring up someone else that was a little less obvious like a Micheal Huff or a Vernon Gholston.

I get what you're saying and agree with you to an extent.

Newton is this yrs version of VY. He has the ability to be a great QB. However it will come down to work ethic. Just like it did with VY.

This is why I believe it is proper to question Newtons character. If the past is any indication I wouldn't touch Newton with a 10 ft pole.

Warren would consider me to be a racist for that statemnet. But Warren only views things thru race. NFL owners view things thru $$$$. That is why although Newton should not be the #1 pick in the draft he probably will be.

Texecutioner
04-07-2011, 11:57 AM
I get what you're saying and agree with you to an extent.

Newton is this yrs version of VY. He has the ability to be a great QB. However it will come down to work ethic. Just like it did with VY.

This is why I believe it is proper to question Newtons character. If the past is any indication I wouldn't touch Newton with a 10 ft pole.

Warren would consider me to be a racist for that statemnet. But Warren only views things thru race. NFL owners view things thru $$$$. That is why although Newton should not be the #1 pick in the draft he probably will be.

He's not VY at all. VY had a lot more success in college than Cam did. VY left by his Junior season having the best two Rose Bowl performances of all time back to back and never had any character issues in college. As far as his character went in college Vince was everything you'd look for in a QB as far as leadership goes. It wasn't until he had his spats with Fisher and Norm Chow where VY's immaturity started to show where he went off the deep end at times. Vince could have played another season at Texas if he wanted to though and would have probably won another NC.

Their skills sets are very similar though and I'll give you that, but as far as their personalities go comparing Cam to how VY was in college their not alike at all. VY's personality in the pros is another story.

76Texan
04-09-2011, 02:49 PM
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81f2bb8e/article/newton-receives-grudens-endorsement-after-personal-workout?module=HP_headlines

Newton receives Gruden's endorsement after personal workout
NFL.com Published: April 9, 2011 at 11:20 a.m. Updated: April 9, 2011 at 12:59 p.m.

Count Jon Gruden among those who believe in Cam Newton.

Gruden, a former NFL coach and current ESPN analyst, put the Auburn quarterback through passing drills Friday and came away impressed, telling The Tampa Tribune "I think Cam Newton's the best player in the country."
"I agree with the Heisman Trophy people that gave him the award," said Gruden, the famously quarterback-minded ex-coach of the Oakland Raiders and Tampa Bay Buccaneers. "He's got everything I'm looking for."But do the Carolina Panthers, who own the No. 1 overall pick, agree with Gruden? Panthers coach Ron Rivera said Friday that the team is beginning to narrow its candidates for the top selection in the April 28-30 draft.

Newton has met with the Panthers and hopes he makes the cut.

"To some degree, I'd like to go No. 1," Newton said after the 20-minute workout at the University of South Florida. "The most important thing is to come out each day and get better. That's what I can control. ... I can't control where I get picked."

Gruden's praise of Newton came just days after coach Marvin Lewis, whose Cincinnati Bengals own the No. 4 pick, backed the quarterback's credentials. Lewis said Newton is "a real fine NFL prospect" who has "kind of had that 'it,' been that kind of guy for awhile."

b0ng
04-10-2011, 01:09 PM
Oh, this is like a sound clip by a reporter who only looks at one side of the issue. Yes, Kerry went 13-3 in 2008, then went 0-6 in 2009. After which VY brought the team back with what record??? I don't think I'd hang my hat on Kerry Collin's reputation.

Do I think VY is an NFL caliber QB? No, he's got to grow up first. But to say this man doesn't have talent, is not exactly correct either. Let's face it, he's playing for Bud Adams who's main reason for drafting him was to get back at Houston (speculation of course, but I think I'm right).

Using the argument that he "Has talent" is stupid. Every player in the NFL "has talent". Even Jamarcus Russell "has talent". The fact is that Young is such an epic headcase that he is almost certain to never be able to utilize that "talent".

The fact is those Titans teams had enough talent outside of the QB position that they could get by with shoddy play from there. For all the shit he gets for being terrible, Mark Sanchez is doing a much better job at being a mediocre QB surrounded by an excellent defensive unit and loads of talent on the O-line.

On with Newton:

76Texan, QB's who don't take snaps under center at college don't bother me nearly as much as they used to. My problem with Newton is that he's never really had to make more than 1 progression before tucking and running becomes the better option to move the ball forward. It's much harder to get a guage on his decision making ability because that offense at Auburn wasn't exactly complicated, and even if he did make bad decisions the defense was usually good enough to bail him out and make them easily forgotten.

My second problem with him is that from when his last bowl game ended up until this point he seems to be more concerned with his image and endorsements. Sure, it's nitpicky, and could lead to absolutely nothing in the NFL. But that would be a huge concern for me taking him #1 Overall.

I think Newton going to a system that he can grow into and has solid talent already in it (Think mid to late) might be a great draft pick. #1 overall though seems like a really really bad idea with guys like Peterson, Green, and Dareus, along with like 2 or 3 other QB's who you can say are similarly talented. I think the Panthers could easily be looking at a situation in 2012 where they spent a 2nd on Clausen in 2010, a #1 on Newton and could possibly draft Jake Locker in 2012. Then what do you do? Again, I'm not saying that Newton doesn't look like a solid overall talent that could develop into a Steve Young type QB who can be a great scrambler and passer. Going #1 overall though, into that Panthers system, where they may lose Williams and Stewart hasn't held up for a full 16 yet? And they've got Steve Smith and who receiving the ball? Really?

Yikes.

76Texan
04-10-2011, 01:36 PM
Once again, I do not endorse anybody as a number one draft pick 'cause I don't have all the resources to learn enough about the players.

But these points, I want to make:

1. Newton made a lot more multi-read decisions than Gabbert. This I can guarantee because I did pay attention to each of their passes in at least 8 games that I watched from them. I saw Newton made 3-reads often, gabbert, rarely. I have not seen Gabbert made 4 or 5 reads, something that Newton did at least a half dozen times.

2. The Panthers have some good looking young receivers:
Gettys from Baylor is 6'3 with 4.43 speed
Brandon lafell (LSU) doesn't have the speed, but I saw him being very solid and steady in college. Armanti Edwards , once he gets used to the new position can be a dangerous threat .
Mike Goodson has excellent speed out of the backfield.
I don't know much about their TE; but with that solid core of young receivers (in addition to Steve Smith), the Panthers can be very productive with a good QB in tow.

b0ng
04-10-2011, 01:55 PM
I don't think Blaine Gabbert would be a good pick #1 overall either. But that doesn't really change my opinion about how ready I think Cameron Newton is for the NFL. Every year just about we see a QB who is a great scrambler, has a questionable throwing game, and is over-hyped beyond belief because his whole team around him was also fairly talented.

Nothing on the Panthers looked anything close to good last year. Armanti Edwards was a joke of a pick that cost them their 2nd this year, and Lafell has yet to do anything either. That team is going to get beat up on by the Bucs, Falcons, and Saints for probably a few years if not more. There is no way in the world if I were the panthers that I would not take Patrick Peterson (Or Marcel Dareus) over Cameron Newton and just hope that I get close enough to trade up for Luck next year. If they have to have a QB, I think they'll probably end up with similar results no matter who they take be it Newton, Gabbert, or random QB #3 (Mallett, Locker, Ponder, Kapaernick).

I have read an article out of the Charlotte Observer talking about trading with Washington so that the 'Skins can draft Newton. That, I think, would be the best case scenario for the Panthers and I have no idea how that would end up for Newton but the first word that pops into my mind is "bad".

Playoffs
04-20-2011, 04:19 PM
Red flag in the interview with Chuckie when Cam was unable to give an example of an Auburn play call ..... that can be an issue, imo.

Ole Miss Texan
04-21-2011, 09:22 AM
Red flag in the interview with Chuckie when Cam was unable to give an example of an Auburn play call ..... that can be an issue, imo.

What happened!? Gabbert is apparently making some front offices drool with his mind... he might be a Jedi. NFL places a premium on a QBs ability to remember plays and Gabbert has been impressing teams with his memory of Mizzou plays as well as pro-style plays teams are testing him with.

This draft is so interesting. Will Newton or will Gabbert go #1 overall!!??

bah007
04-21-2011, 10:40 AM
What happened!? Gabbert is apparently making some front offices drool with his mind... he might be a Jedi. NFL places a premium on a QBs ability to remember plays and Gabbert has been impressing teams with his memory of Mizzou plays as well as pro-style plays teams are testing him with.

This draft is so interesting. Will Newton or will Gabbert go #1 overall!!??

Gruden gave Newton an example of a NFL play, with 10 words or so. He asked Newton what kind of terminology they used at Auburn and Cam was speechless.

Eventually he said they didn't call plays. They just looked to the sideline because they would hold up signs with numbers on them. The numbers are the play calls. If a sign says 36, that's the name of the play.

Then Gruden asks, "Do you think they do that in the NFL?"

Texecutioner
04-21-2011, 10:45 AM
Gruden gave Newton an example of a NFL play, with 10 words or so. He asked Newton what kind of terminology they used at Auburn and Cam was speechless.

Eventually he said they didn't call plays. They just looked to the sideline because they would hold up signs with numbers on them. The numbers are the play calls. If a sign says 36, that's the name of the play.

Then Gruden asks, "Do you think they do that in the NFL?"

That part was sort of funny actually. Yeah, Newton seemed way out of his element when he was asked that.

bah007
04-21-2011, 10:48 AM
That part was sort of funny actually. Yeah, Newton seemed way out of his element when he was asked that.

I thought it was funny. And it's a perfect example of why I think Cam will be a bust in the NFL. He has the ability, nobody doubts that. But imo, he does not have the head to be a NFL QB.

76Texan
04-21-2011, 11:28 AM
Jon Gruden conducted a series for ESPN where he interviews each QB in this draft and puts them through a workout (separately).
It's an interesting series; I learned a lot from it.

Gruden had done his homework beforehand and he always tries to put the QBs in a spot at some point in the interview. The guy is really tricky, I'll tell ya'.

Remember that Gruden called Newton the best player in the country after this interview/workout.

I think people put too much into this, as usual. :)

Here's part of the interview:

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/cam-newton-jon-gruden-video/

And here are some interesting reads concerning play callings, methods, and signals:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_293445.html

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Deconstructing-Auburn-s-Malzahn-at-the-gates-a?urn=ncaaf-193416

http://www.thestate.com/2011/03/31/1757985/coaches-simplifying-play-calling.html

Playoffs
04-21-2011, 12:28 PM
I found it most disturbing how he froze up -- cognitive/decision-making problems?

Secondly, think about it: You're a first round QB prospect who is about to sit across the table from Chuckie(!) on national television -- you know it'll be a chalkboard session -- and you show up apparently unprepared? :thinking:

May be nit-picky, but ... MLB pitchers can recount games pitch-by-pitch; PGA Tour pros recount rounds shot-distance-result; NBA players can bore you with play-by-play recollections -- and I'm talking about years old games, tournaments. (Ask Nicklaus about 1986 Masters and he'll give you every single shot.)

For a first pick & "$50 million" that would give me pause.

kiwitexansfan
04-21-2011, 01:23 PM
I love those bits with Chuckie.

He is great on TV. I really don't want him to get a coaching gig because I like him on TV too much.

Texecutioner
04-21-2011, 02:16 PM
I thought it was funny. And it's a perfect example of why I think Cam will be a bust in the NFL. He has the ability, nobody doubts that. But imo, he does not have the head to be a NFL QB.

I don't think he has the ability either. He has the athleticism to be a running QB, but not a great passer.

76Texan
04-21-2011, 10:18 PM
I love those bits with Chuckie.

He is great on TV. I really don't want him to get a coaching gig because I like him on TV too much.

I hear ya'.
He's a little wacko sometimes, but overall, he's good for TV!

76Texan
04-21-2011, 10:44 PM
I found it most disturbing how he froze up -- cognitive/decision-making problems?

Secondly, think about it: You're a first round QB prospect who is about to sit across the table from Chuckie(!) on national television -- you know it'll be a chalkboard session -- and you show up apparently unprepared? :thinking:

May be nit-picky, but ... MLB pitchers can recount games pitch-by-pitch; PGA Tour pros recount rounds shot-distance-result; NBA players can bore you with play-by-play recollections -- and I'm talking about years old games, tournaments. (Ask Nicklaus about 1986 Masters and he'll give you every single shot.)

For a first pick & "$50 million" that would give me pause.Let's compare two QBs a little bit here:

On the one hand, you have Gabbert who ran a pure spread offense at Mizzou.
He either was in one back shotgun set or no back spread.
He had no TE. The guy who was listed as TE only had the title; he lined up as a receiver.
He doesn't know what kind of routes a TE in the NFL run.
He doesn't know how to utilize a FB or an H-back in the passing game because he never played with one.
With 4 or 5 receivers, there are only so many formations you can line up in and only so many plays you can run.

On the other hand, you have Newton who saw action under Center about 3.5 times a game (remember you have to practice). He's seen the play action fake, the roll out off the two-back set.
Even when he's in the shotgun, he played with 2 backs or 3 backs in the backfield; something you don't even see in the NFL.
Imagine how many different formations he had to get comfortable with.
Out of each formation, they can run a bunch of plays, with variations and options.
His playbook can be at least 2 times as thick as Gabbert's and thicker than quite a few NFL QBs, probably thicker than most (if not all).
A guy has to have football intelligence to be able to digest such a system.
On top of that, the Tigers ran a lot of up-tempo or no huddle.
The QB has to be smart to be able to run a series of play with very little communication from the side line.

It is totally illogical to think that he doesn't have a brain between his ears when he was able to perform all those tasks at a very high level.

This is a guy who can make all the throws (to RB, FB, H-back, TE, WR) in game situation. It takes more than a good passer to do that.
His brain has got to function at a high level to shift gears between so many different personnel groupings/formations like that.
To think otherwise is totally illogical.

76Texan
04-21-2011, 11:00 PM
Tennessee coach Lane Kiffin quoted his colorful dad/defensive coordinator, Monte, that defending Malzahn's offense was "like trying to read a book with someone waving their hand in front of the book -- trying to look at it, what's going on, but you can't really see it.

......

Now, does that sound like an offense that a QB with no brain can run?

Lucky
04-22-2011, 06:24 AM
Now, does that sound like an offense that a QB with no brain can run?
It sounds like a gimmick offense that doesn't translate to the NFL. Not that Newton is alone in that regard. Most of the college QBs coming into the league have to make the adjustments to NFL style offenses. It's a process, and has as more to do with the coaching the young QB will receive in the NFL than anything.

Newton needs a good QB coach on whatever team he lands with. The Panthers QB coach, Mike Shula, transitioned David Garrard from a running QB to a drop back passer. The Bills hired an ex-CFL coach, George Cortez, as their QB coach. That tells me that the Bills will be more gimmicky than last year, and either Newton or Gabbert (or Kaepernick in round 2) would be good fits.

b0ng
04-24-2011, 10:14 PM
Tennessee coach Lane Kiffin quoted his colorful dad/defensive coordinator, Monte, that defending Malzahn's offense was "like trying to read a book with someone waving their hand in front of the book -- trying to look at it, what's going on, but you can't really see it.

......

Now, does that sound like an offense that a QB with no brain can run?

To me it looks and sounds like an offense that you can run by flying by the seat of your pants, and while you can't say for sure that this will cause him to bustola in the NFL it's obviously one of those "red flags" that you go and research later on to see whether it's malarky or if you might have a serious issue on your hands when he gets to training camp.

To be fair, I don't really like any of the guys in this QB class it's not really just Newton. There is no "guy" or "guys". You don't have a couple of players head and shoulders above the rest of the class. While Newton and Gabbert are both considered to be the best of the bunch I don't think either one of those guys are far enough ahead of Mallet/Locker/Ponder to think that they are just going to be great right out of the box. It kind of reminds me of the '07 draft where you had 2 guys with obvious flaws but some decent talent followed by a bunch of ho-hum prospects (of which Kevin Kolb seems to be doing the best). If I were a team that was badly in need of a QB I would try to pick up one of those guys in the 2nd and hope that I could land a VY in free agency if I needed somebody who could start immediately. In no way would I not have serious reservations about making any of these guys a top 5 or top 10 pick, I would almost rather win the Andrew Luck sweepstakes and have a whole offseason to work with my new toy.

kiwitexansfan
04-24-2011, 10:22 PM
[QUOTE=b0ng;1683731To be fair, I don't really like any of the guys in this QB class it's not really just Newton. There is no "guy" or "guys". You don't have a couple of players head and shoulders above the rest of the class. [/QUOTE]

It is a really bad QB class and yet the projections are for 6 to go first round.

Newton, Gabbert, Locker, Mallet, Ponder and Dalton.

I genuinely think that none of them are genuine first rounders, in that none of them are worthy to get a starting job or close to it as rookies. If I HAD to start one I would probably pick Dalton.

If they all mature into their full potential, I think Mallet might be the best but that is a BIG BIG if for him.

I am also on record as thinking Newton will have NFL success, Dalton will win a lot of games in time and Gabbert will be a HUGE bust.

b0ng
04-24-2011, 10:42 PM
It is a really bad QB class and yet the projections are for 6 to go first round.

Newton, Gabbert, Locker, Mallet, Ponder and Dalton.

I genuinely think that none of them are genuine first rounders, in that none of them are worthy to get a starting job or close to it as rookies. If I HAD to start one I would probably pick Dalton.

If they all mature into their full potential, I think Mallet might be the best but that is a BIG BIG if for him.

I am also on record as thinking Newton will have NFL success, Dalton will win a lot of games in time and Gabbert will be a HUGE bust.

I honestly believe that if you were looking for a QB that could start in 1 or 2 years Dalton, CK, Ponder and probably Locker all make for decent round 2-3 guys and would probably be OK if they got decent coaching and time to learn. 6 of these guys actually going in the first round would make me think that GM's are operating under the presumption that rookie wages are going to be a fraction of what they have been in the previous years and it won't cost as much to grab a guy in the first and let him sit for a few years before seeing him take over at the position. I mean even in what was considered a QB rich draft like 2004 only 4 went in the first round which makes 6 going in the first year seem ridiculous.

kiwitexansfan
04-24-2011, 10:53 PM
I believe the theory is that with no FA and trades, GMs can't assume they can get Kolb or McNabb or Palmer and will reach to get a warm body at QB.

Blake
04-25-2011, 07:44 AM
I thought it was funny. And it's a perfect example of why I think Cam will be a bust in the NFL. He has the ability, nobody doubts that. But imo, he does not have the head to be a NFL QB.

Ive had the same thoughts for awhile. The spot with Gruden just enforces it. Cam got by on his athleticism. He doesn't even know play terminology. 36 is a play? Give me a break. Cam doesn't have the capacity to learn what every player is doing on every play and Gus Malzahn is forced to dumb it down.

I think Gabbert and Mallet did a great job. I feel like the Fins will draft him. Gabbert should go top 5 and someone will reach for Cam top 5.

But hey, at least Cam was the best dressed. On Dez Bryantesqe pre-draft credit I am sure.

b0ng
04-25-2011, 07:47 AM
But hey, at least Cam was the best dressed. On Dez Bryantesqe pre-draft credit I am sure.

Why would he need credit when I'm sure his pops could foot the bill for a suit :fingergun:

Ole Miss Texan
04-25-2011, 08:54 AM
Ive had the same thoughts for awhile. The spot with Gruden just enforces it. Cam got by on his athleticism. He doesn't even know play terminology. 36 is a play? Give me a break. Cam doesn't have the capacity to learn what every player is doing on every play and Gus Malzahn is forced to dumb it down.

I think Gabbert and Mallet did a great job. I feel like the Fins will draft him. Gabbert should go top 5 and someone will reach for Cam top 5.
I forget which article I read (probably on here) about Gabbert. But it mentioned during his meetins with one of the teams they had him draw up several plays he had at Missouri from memory. Then they gave him their plays to draw on the board. Then they erased it all and had him start all over again... apparently he has a photgraphic memory and aced the test.

THAT's what it takes to succeed in the NFL in my opinion.

Blake
04-25-2011, 09:06 AM
I forget which article I read (probably on here) about Gabbert. But it mentioned during his meetins with one of the teams they had him draw up several plays he had at Missouri from memory. Then they gave him their plays to draw on the board. Then they erased it all and had him start all over again... apparently he has a photgraphic memory and aced the test.

THAT's what it takes to succeed in the NFL in my opinion.

I agree. But some team will get stupid drunk on Cam's "physical attributes." They always do.

kiwitexansfan
04-25-2011, 09:13 AM
I forget which article I read (probably on here) about Gabbert. But it mentioned during his meetins with one of the teams they had him draw up several plays he had at Missouri from memory. Then they gave him their plays to draw on the board. Then they erased it all and had him start all over again... apparently he has a photgraphic memory and aced the test.

THAT's what it takes to succeed in the NFL in my opinion.

Being smart doesn't mean you can handle game pressure.

My knock on Gabbert is that he has happy feet and can't handle pressure in game.

Being smart won't stop you running scared at the first hint of pressure.

Ole Miss Texan
04-25-2011, 09:34 AM
Being smart doesn't mean you can handle game pressure.

My knock on Gabbert is that he has happy feet and can't handle pressure in game.

Being smart won't stop you running scared at the first hint of pressure.
The thing about Gabbert though is that he's got such a quick release and he's smart. I understand the knock on him are all the false steps he takes and being a bit of a gambler. I don't think he's the cleanest prospect by any means but if I'm a team looking for a franchise QB, I take my chances on him. I think a good QB coach can correct some of his flaws fairly easily. It may take some time but I think you've got everything you look for in a QB, it just takes some coaching.

We'll see if Chudzinski and Shula can work their magic.

BigBull17
04-25-2011, 11:08 AM
Mallet has by far the most upside of any of the QB's, IMO. He is big with a pretty big arm. He also has some of the drug baggage, which is dangerous. The thing I would worry about with Newton is that if things go good, he'll be fine. Its when he gets exposed and has to evolve. That's when he'll go crazy and have melt downs. VY was more mature than Cam and that's when he when bonkers and ruined his career.

Texecutioner
04-25-2011, 11:16 AM
Mallet has by far the most upside of any of the QB's, IMO. He is big with a pretty big arm. He also has some of the drug baggage, which is dangerous. The thing I would worry about with Newton is that if things go good, he'll be fine. Its when he gets exposed and has to evolve. That's when he'll go crazy and have melt downs. VY was more mature than Cam and that's when he when bonkers and ruined his career.

I don't think you can say that VY has ruined his career at all. The coach that he had so many problems with is gone now and VY improved on his passing abilities. He was pulled way to early in the season by Fisher to tell really what kind of season he could have had. The year before that he improved a lot and got the Titans back on a winning streak. He may not ever be a full time starter with the Titans or any other team, but then again he might get his shot and make the most of it again like he did two years ago. I think VY is still an unknown for now. I think he'll end up getting another shot again somewhere if not for Tennessee.

As far as Cam goes, I think his career is going to be a disaster to the folks that actually believe that he's going to be a big time player. Even if his poor mechanics and poor throwing doesn't do him in, his shaky personality and his ego will cause problems for himself and the team that's around him. He's got far to many warning signs for me to think that any team should gamble on him before the 3rd round.

gary
04-25-2011, 11:21 AM
I have heard some positive feedback about Ponder. What do you guys think?

kiwitexansfan
04-25-2011, 11:25 AM
Mallet has by far the most upside of any of the QB's, IMO. He is big with a pretty big arm. He also has some of the drug baggage, which is dangerous. The thing I would worry about with Newton is that if things go good, he'll be fine. Its when he gets exposed and has to evolve. That's when he'll go crazy and have melt downs. VY was more mature than Cam and that's when he when bonkers and ruined his career.

People including Herm Edwards have pointed to Newton's ability to play through the scandal largely unphased as evidence that Newton's mental toughness is FAR greater than Young's.

Texecutioner
04-25-2011, 11:32 AM
People including Herm Edwards have pointed to Newton's ability to play through the scandal largely unphased as evidence that Newton's mental toughness is FAR greater than Young's.

I don't think that proves anything. He was just going out and using his athletic play making abilities to dominate in college still the same way that VY was. Plus, he's a year older than VY was as well. In the pros it just isn't that simple. You can't just go out there every Sunday and dominate on athleticism like you can in college and there is so much more studying and preparation involved. You've got a ton of older men expecting you to lead them. You've got the media that's in full force and Cam will be expected to run a real offense where his WR's will have a ton of different routes and the coverages and defensive schemes will have to be studied a lot more. We've seen time and time again that these athletic dual type QB's from college that have a ton of success fail a lot more times than they succeed and even the ones that succeed seem to have a lot of inconsistencies where they're real hot and real cold at times. Michael Vick and VY both have been huge examples of that. Mcnabb was early on in his career as well, but he developed into a very good passer eventually and became very consistent.

gary
04-25-2011, 11:49 AM
I don't think that proves anything. He was just going out and using his athletic play making abilities to dominate in college still the same way that VY was. Plus, he's a year older than VY was as well. In the pros it just isn't that simple. You can't just go out there every Sunday and dominate on athleticism like you can in college and there is so much more studying and preparation involved. You've got a ton of older men expecting you to lead them. You've got the media that's in full force and Cam will be expected to run a real offense where his WR's will have a ton of different routes and the coverages and defensive schemes will have to be studied a lot more. We've seen time and time again that these athletic dual type QB's from college that have a ton of success fail a lot more times than they succeed and even the ones that succeed seem to have a lot of inconsistencies where they're real hot and real cold at times. Michael Vick and VY both have been huge examples of that. Mcnabb was early on in his career as well, but he developed into a very good passer eventually and became very consistent.
I don't think that Michael Vick will be as great next season because teams were already starting to figure him out just like last time towards the end of last season.

Texecutioner
04-25-2011, 11:55 AM
I don't think that Michael Vick will be as great next season because teams were already starting to figure him out just like last time towards the end of last season.

I agree with you. However, Vick does seem very motivated and a lot more committed now since he wasted a few years and realizes that he never worked hard enough when he was younger. Plus, Vick in my opinion has the best receiving core in the league now to work with along with a very good RB. Vick has some awsome weapons at his disposal to where even average QB's could put up some pretty good numbers with.

gary
04-25-2011, 12:09 PM
I agree with you. However, Vick does seem very motivated and a lot more committed now since he wasted a few years and realizes that he never worked hard enough when he was younger. Plus, Vick in my opinion has the best receiving core in the league now to work with along with a very good RB. Vick has some awsome weapons at his disposal to where even average QB's could put up some pretty good numbers with.You are right but I still see Michael being knocked around a bit more next season than he was last season.

drs23
04-25-2011, 06:28 PM
Ive had the same thoughts for awhile. The spot with Gruden just enforces it. Cam got by on his athleticism. He doesn't even know play terminology. 36 is a play? Give me a break. Cam doesn't have the capacity to learn what every player is doing on every play and Gus Malzahn is forced to dumb it down.

I think Gabbert and Mallet did a great job. I feel like the Fins will draft him. Gabbert should go top 5 and someone will reach for Cam top 5.

But hey, at least Cam was the best dressed. On Dez Bryantesqe pre-draft credit I am sure.

To the bolded, I think that was really over simplified. The 'real' play is: 36 hut hut. :D

I know I was wrong for that. :winky:

Texan4Ever
04-25-2011, 09:40 PM
Cam Newton has the physical tools but ran a simple offense that Vince Young could figure out. His main problem will be learning the plays and calling them as Jon Gruden talked to him about in the NFL its not just "36" but "36 Flex Right, Texas waggle, blah blah blah" and Newton admitted that he doesn't have experience in that.

Ryan Mallet has a strong arm is probably the more accurate QB, its when he is forced to scramble which causes problems so a team with a poor offensive line would be a bad fit for him.

Blaine Gabbert may be smart but he has a slow release from some of the hihglights I've seen and will end up evading defenders in the wrong directions rather than look for holes and go through them.

Playoffs
04-26-2011, 11:29 AM
I found it most disturbing how he froze up -- cognitive/decision-making problems?...For a first pick & "$50 million" that would give me pause....It is totally illogical to think that he doesn't have a brain between his ears when he was able to perform all those tasks at a very high level...

In Chucky’s episode with Newton, Chucky asked Newton to call a play in a huddle using some of the most complex verbiage used at Auburn.

Newton couldn’t do it, replying after thinking for a period of time, “You’re putting me on the spot.”

Few are aware that one of the people not shown in the video who was in that very room at the time of the taping, lurking in the background, was Hovan[Chris Hovan, ex Tampa defensive tackle].

Hovan described his impression of Newton from Chucky’s session.

J.P. Peterson: You were there with Gruden when he did his chalktalk, kind of in the background…

Chris Hovan: Right.

J.P.: … you said the other day that you were just not impressed with Cam’s intelligence and that he wasn’t very quick-witted which I am guessing has to be an absolute necessity for a quarterback in the NFL.

Hovan: It is. I mean, if you look at all the top flight quarterbacks, the Peyton Mannings and Tom Brady, they are so systematic when they play football. They know how to read coverages. The first and second audible or the third audible, where to go when the defense presents looks to them. And I don’t feel in a pressure situation that Cam can make those checks right now. If he was under Jon Gruden, if Jon Gruden was his head coach, he would definitely red shirt. If you are going to put him out there — first of all, Carolina’s offensive line, they pretty much only have Jordan Gross right now. He’s a left tackle and was drafted in the first round. If you put him in there with a suspect offensive line you are going to get the kid killed. Yeah, he can run…

J.P.: And he will be running.

Hovan: … but you can only run for so long. They are going to hunt this kid down. I don’t feel he is ready for the NFL level yet. Does he have the intangibles? Athletically, yes he does. But this is just a complex game when you go to the NFL level, especially at the quarterback position. You have to be ready to make those checks at the line of scrimmage. I don’t feel like he is ready for that yet.

J.P.: Now what kind of sense do you get from him as a leader? You have been in many, many locker rooms. You have played with many quarterbacks. You can name them. Some good ones and some bad ones. Did he have that quarterback intangible that you have to have where guys are going to run through the wall for you, they feel like you are the man and you will take us to the promised land. Did he have that charisma?

Hovan: No, I don’t really — he has charisma. J.P. The only thing I have a problem with was when he called himself an icon. You are not really iconic yet my man. Yes, you played one year at Auburn and won a national championship but you played one year. It’s enough to raise his draft stock but at the same time that does not make you ready for the NFL. You are not iconic yet. Peyton Manning is iconic, Tom Brady is iconic. Why? Because Tom Brady won three Super Bowls. Peyton Manning won a Super Bowl but he has always been in the hunt. For him to put himself out there and say that he is something that he is not, I do have a problem with that and he’s’ going to have a problem with that when he walks into a locker room. He’s going to have to go in there and earn the respect of his team. I just don’t think you need to be saying words before you produce.

Joe wishes Hovan would have given some other examples, but it was interesting to hear from someone in the same room as Newton and Gruden when this session was taped that sort of reinforced what others thought when Newton couldn’t answer a simply question from Chucky – didn’t even try to answer.

read more: http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=46970

BigBull17
04-26-2011, 11:40 AM
I agree with you. However, Vick does seem very motivated and a lot more committed now since he wasted a few years and realizes that he never worked hard enough when he was younger. Plus, Vick in my opinion has the best receiving core in the league now to work with along with a very good RB. Vick has some awsome weapons at his disposal to where even average QB's could put up some pretty good numbers with.

Yeah, he showed a commitment to the cerebral side. Let's see if he can do it

BigBull17
04-26-2011, 11:46 AM
People including Herm Edwards have pointed to Newton's ability to play through the scandal largely unphased as evidence that Newton's mental toughness is FAR greater than Young's.

NFL football is a different animal than college. I just don't see him being able to accept coaching and to be adaptive in his game when teams figure him out.

kiwitexansfan
04-26-2011, 07:29 PM
NFL football is a different animal than college. I just don't see him being able to accept coaching and to be adaptive in his game when teams figure him out.

That is something much different to VY mentally breaking down.

b0ng
04-26-2011, 09:02 PM
Great article on how simple Malzahns offense was at Auburn in 2010. (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/42733891/ns/sports-nfl/)