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View Full Version : Bounding in Optimism for 2011 (sorry, soapers)


dalemurphy
03-05-2011, 11:14 PM
The events of the past four days or so have me giddy with anticipation for the season, well, the off-season actually. If this CBA actually gets done by mid March, I think the Texans are primed to do some great things this year. I will be concerned, however, if an agreement isn't reached and the draft occurs before free agency. Anyway, I see many signs pointing up for our Texans and put together an extensive look at why... The article is full of links to other articles as well as to some free agency lists, etc...

From Ashes to Perfection: This is How I would Describe the Texans Off-Season. No Kidding! (http://www.texansbullblog.com/ashes-perfection-describe-texans-offseason-kidding/featured-articles/#more-1983)

Do the following moves have you more, or less excited about the Texans' prospects in 2011:

1. E. Wilson released
2. Pollard let go
3. OD re-signed for 4 yrs and $22 million
4. Shaun Cody re-signed
5. Derrick Ward re-signed
6. one week extension on CBA deadline
7. letting Zac Diles go
8. tendering, but not signing Mark Anderson, Rashad Butler, Mike Briesel, Jacoby Jones
9. dumping Kasey Studdard
10. not signing Vonte Leach yet
11. Moving Quin to safety... maybe

Second Honeymoon
03-05-2011, 11:33 PM
The events of the past four days or so have me giddy with anticipation for the season, well, the off-season actually. If this CBA actually gets done by mid March, I think the Texans are primed to do some great things this year. I will be concerned, however, if an agreement isn't reached and the draft occurs before free agency. Anyway, I see many signs pointing up for our Texans and put together an extensive look at why... The article is full of links to other articles as well as to some free agency lists, etc...

From Ashes to Perfection: This is How I would Describe the Texans Off-Season. No Kidding! (http://www.texansbullblog.com/ashes-perfection-describe-texans-offseason-kidding/featured-articles/#more-1983)

Do the following moves have you more, or less excited about the Texans' prospects in 2011:

1. E. Wilson released
2. Pollard let go
3. OD re-signed for 4 yrs and $22 million
4. Shaun Cody re-signed
5. Derrick Ward re-signed
6. one week extension on CBA deadline
7. letting Zac Diles go
8. tendering, but not signing Mark Anderson, Rashad Butler, Mike Briesel, Jacoby Jones
9. dumping Kasey Studdard
10. not signing Vonte Leach yet
11. Moving Quin to safety... maybe

1. doesn't make us better
2. doesn't make us better
3. doesn't make us that much better. TE wasn't a problem last year.
4. doesn't make us better
5. doesn't make us better
6. HOORAY!!!
7. may make us better but nice draft pick Rick
8. doesn't make us better but were prudent moves
9. doesn't make us better but Kubiak was able to get rid of a Longhorn
10. incomplete
11. OMG that move has failure written all over it. Trust me on that. EPIC FAIL.

VTexan
03-05-2011, 11:44 PM
So the perfect off-season is to not sign anyone new.


in before Joe Texan facepalm

dalemurphy
03-05-2011, 11:52 PM
So the perfect off-season is to not sign anyone new.


in before Joe Texan facepalm

In a manner of speaking... yes. Since free agency hasn't started yet, I am acutally thrilled that they didn't bid on the couple guys that were out there: atogwe, rogers, sanders

I'm not judging the off-season as if it is over... It appears to me that the Texans are accurately assessing the team's strengths and weaknesses, making smart decisions, and are in position to get much better this off-season... assuming the CBA gets done in the next couple weeks.

Rey
03-05-2011, 11:54 PM
The moves don't have me more or less excited.

They haven't really done anything that makes me gow wow in either direction.

Not that they've been able to...just sayin

dalemurphy
03-06-2011, 12:01 AM
The moves don't have me more or less excited.

They haven't really done anything that makes me gow wow in either direction.

Not that they've been able to...just sayin

Rey, I get what you are saying. I happen to think that dumping Wilson and Pollard indicates that they finally have assessed their issue at safety and are preparing to resolve it. I love that they let Studdard go, instead of counting on him again. I also like the success they had playing hardball with OD.

Now, I could be wrong. Perhaps they plan to enter the season with Barber and Nolan starting at safety. If so, then I'm done writing on my blog because 1. I'd be too freakin' frustrated to continue following this team this closely... 2. I clearly have no clue what's going on if I am misreading the organization this badly.

So, we'll see.

Rey
03-06-2011, 12:19 AM
Rey, I get what you are saying. I happen to think that dumping Wilson and Pollard indicates that they finally have assessed their issue at safety and are preparing to resolve it. I love that they let Studdard go, instead of counting on him again. I also like the success they had playing hardball with OD.

Now, I could be wrong. Perhaps they plan to enter the season with Barber and Nolan starting at safety. If so, then I'm done writing on my blog because 1. I'd be too freakin' frustrated to continue following this team this closely... 2. I clearly have no clue what's going on if I am misreading the organization this badly.

So, we'll see.

And I completely understand what you are saying. It does seem as if they are planning on being aggressive to fix some of the problem areas on the team.

I'm just not 100% sure how they plan on doing it. I want to wait before I judge them because I could see them penciling in Quinn at SS and not giving Nolan any real competition at SS.

I actually think they may make a formidable combo there....IF they went out and got a bonafide cover corner and a beast OLB to rush from the edge. For instance, I would be fine with Quinn and Nolan penciled in at the safety spots if they are planning to go after Nmamdi and trade up for Von Miller.

But I just don't know what they are planning yet.

Right now, I see a defense that has a bunch of holes and I see two guys coming off of serious injury who are being counted on to play prominent roles. If they don't aggressively try to upgrade the talent level on the defense I'm not going to be too thrilled.

I think Wade will help some, but I'd like for us to get some good ingredients for him to cook with.

The Pencil Neck
03-06-2011, 02:31 AM
The thing that has been consistently wrong on this team since the beginning of the Kubiak era has been the defense.

I think the FO has done a good job getting talent and I think they've gotten the talent that the coaches wanted as much as possible. The fact that the talent didn't translate into wins is on the coaches both for choosing the wrong guys and for not coaching them to do the right things and for having bad defensive schemes.

Up until this point, I think the defensive coaches have been bound by what Kubes wanted the defense to be. (If you look at Smith's and Bush's press conferences, they sounded pretty much the same with the same words and the same concepts.) And because of that, they ended up chasing rainbows.

The signing of Wade Phillips could be the solution to that. Although I hate having to turn into a 3-4 defense at this point, I think that Wade Phillips could have been given last year's defensive personnel and done a much better job with it that Bush and his staff did.

So I'm looking forward with us getting some of the pieces necessary for Wade to put his defense together. And I'm happy we've signed and tendered and let go the guys we've signed and tendered and let go.

BUT.

It's too early for me to get really happy about it, yet. They still have to make a lot of moves to shore some things up before I'm going to get happy and even then, I think I'll have to see the results on the field. I have to see us do better than 5-7 to start the season before I'm really going to believe that this is working. Unless both the offense and defense come out dominating opponents for the first half of the season.

So, they've got to prove it to me. Last year, I was swimming in the Kool-aide; this year, not so much even though I want to be.

beerlover
03-06-2011, 03:32 AM
hope springs eternal

The problem with the Texan D is they're to soft & predictable up front. I'm giddy that Wade can see this & make appropriate changes both in scheme & personel.

jaayteetx
03-06-2011, 10:40 AM
I was excited for last season too, you see how that turned out. I'll wait to see what we have on the field before I get too excited again.

GP
03-06-2011, 11:26 AM
I give you points for the effort.

But outside of changing to a 3-4 defense (it's new, our 4-3 sucked, etc.) nothing has me optimistic.

We're gonna' sit here, like we always do, thinking the Texans are letting crappy free agents slide by (while "waiting for the good ones" to become available) and then one day we realize free agency is done and we didn't grab anybody but some Pollard-esque player.

Patterns.

If we grab a high-profile, expensive defensive player...then Wade cashed in his one, complimentary poker chip for him. But I think Rick Smith and Kubiak are still running the show and I don't think they'll let Wade have the freedom he should have.

Patterns, patterns, patterns. Tigers don't change their stripes easily, and I think Kubiak is going to go down with his ship. Wade becomes interim head coach, then full HC, and he tells people that we WILL focus on defense. What happens from there is anybody's guess.

Hottoddie
03-06-2011, 12:19 PM
I'm very curious about the Texans plans for the CB position if they do move Quin to the FS position. There are only 3 notable free agent corners that haven't been tendered with a 1st round pick or higher.

Asomugha is the premier CB available & will command a mega contract, but he plays the left side like Quin & would solve our secondary woes once & for all.

Carlos Rogers would be a solid addition as well, but he plays primarily on the right side which is Jacksons side.

Ike Taylor is the 3rd significant CB that has not been tendered, but he's openly said he wants to retire with Pittsburgh. He does primarily play the left side, but he'll be turning 31 years old prior to next season.

So, unless the Texans plan on trading up in the draft to draft Patrick Peterson I have to think they may make a hard run at Asomugha.

Or at least, that's what I'm optimistic about.

Jackie Chiles
03-06-2011, 12:42 PM
I'm very curious about the Texans plans for the CB position if they do move Quin to the FS position. There are only 3 notable free agent corners that haven't been tendered with a 1st round pick or higher.

Asomugha is the premier CB available & will command a mega contract, but he plays the left side like Quin & would solve our secondary woes once & for all.

Carlos Rogers would be a solid addition as well, but he plays primarily on the right side which is Jacksons side.

Ike Taylor is the 3rd significant CB that has not been tendered, but he's openly said he wants to retire with Pittsburgh. He does primarily play the left side, but he'll be turning 31 years old prior to next season.

So, unless the Texans plan on trading up in the draft to draft Patrick Peterson I have to think they may make a hard run at Asomugha.

Or at least, that's what I'm optimistic about.

Most of those tenders are going to be obsolete if the new CBA allows unrestricted FA after 4 years instead of 6 (which is what most predict will happen). A couple of guys I didn't see you list, Jonathan Joseph of the Bengals and Brent Grimes of the Falcons. Of those two I know Grimes was tendered which could be why you didn't mention him. Also If we sign a guy like Eric Weddle maybe there is no need to move Quin. I do hope they make a hard run at Nnamdi regardless but he certainly isn't our only option.

DX-TEX
03-06-2011, 01:04 PM
If the Texans make a REAL effort to sign Namdi, Im talking a visit, contract talks, etc... Ill be happy. This much would at least show the fans they are serious and trying.

I get this feeling that even with having the worst secondary in the league last year we wont even try.

Lucky
03-06-2011, 01:06 PM
So dale is bounding in optimism for the Texans' chances in (pick a year)? What a surprise.

Other than hiring Wade Phillips, the Texans have done little. And the Phillips hiring is trumped by retaining Smithiak (in my eyes). To be fair, real free agency is on hold and the draft is over 2 months away. So there's not much to get excited about.

But there were vets available that possibly could have helped the Texans. The Skins and Saints thought there were vet defenders that could help them. But the Texans stood pat. Again, what a surprise.

Hottoddie
03-06-2011, 01:06 PM
Most of those tenders are going to be obsolete if the new CBA allows unrestricted FA after 4 years instead of 6 (which is what most predict will happen). A couple of guys I didn't see you list, Jonathan Joseph of the Bengals and Brent Grimes of the Falcons. Of those two I know Grimes was tendered which could be why you didn't mention him. Also If we sign a guy like Eric Weddle maybe there is no need to move Quin. I do hope they make a hard run at Nnamdi regardless but he certainly isn't our only option.

Then that will help tremendously. Joseph was tendered at the max for a 1st & 3rd round pick.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81e92945/article/bengals-reportedly-place-highest-tender-on-cb-joseph

EllisUnit
03-06-2011, 03:47 PM
If the Texans make a REAL effort to sign Namdi, Im talking a visit, contract talks, etc... Ill be happy. This much would at least show the fans they are serious and trying.

I get this feeling that even with having the worst secondary in the league last year we wont even try.

Kubiak - Awww Our young CBs will be better this year. Just have Faith Rick hell they cant get much worse. And if Worse comes to Worse, i can get u on in denver next season. :slapfight:

thunderkyss
03-06-2011, 04:11 PM
Rey, I get what you are saying. I happen to think that dumping Wilson and Pollard indicates that they finally have assessed their issue at safety and are preparing to resolve it. I love that they let Studdard go, instead of counting on him again. I also like the success they had playing hardball with OD.

Now, I could be wrong. Perhaps they plan to enter the season with Barber and Nolan starting at safety. If so, then I'm done writing on my blog because 1. I'd be too freakin' frustrated to continue following this team this closely... 2. I clearly have no clue what's going on if I am misreading the organization this badly.

So, we'll see.

I wonder if there is something to be said, about cutting bait, with players that obviously aren't making it.

Eugene Wilson..... how different is this than cutting CC Brown, Glen Earl, Will Demps......

Zack Diles.... Morlon Greenwood, Shantee Orr

It's not like the Texans haven't done things like this before.

Pollard on the other hand.... fan favorite, play-maker.... cut.
Casy Studdard.... friend of a friend........ cut.

Though these moves say a lot, it is unclear, as of yet, exactly what they say.

Replace these guys with quality, impact players...... then we'll see if it's the S.O.S. or not.

IDEXAN
03-06-2011, 04:12 PM
But outside of changing to a 3-4 defense (it's new, our 4-3 sucked, etc.) nothing has me optimistic.

Our defense didn't suck because it was a 4-3 anymore than converting to a 3-4 will automatically make it a success. It sucked largely because of the personnel on defense and the defensive coachs.
So changing DC is a significant move given he'll bring mostly new defensive coachs along with himself and probably have a lot to say about who plays defense. No doubt he already has with the recent moves in releasing and/or tendering defensive players. Actually I think Wade is almost a co-HC right now ?

dalemurphy
03-06-2011, 04:22 PM
So dale is bounding in optimism for the Texans' chances in (pick a year)? What a surprise.

Other than hiring Wade Phillips, the Texans have done little. And the Phillips hiring is trumped by retaining Smithiak (in my eyes). To be fair, real free agency is on hold and the draft is over 2 months away. So there's not much to get excited about.

But there were vets available that possibly could have helped the Texans. The Skins and Saints thought there were vet defenders that could help them. But the Texans stood pat. Again, what a surprise.

When you use the Redskins' front office as an example for anything other than how not to do it, you've likely made a mistake.

thunderkyss
03-06-2011, 04:22 PM
Patterns.

If we grab a high-profile, expensive defensive player...then Wade cashed in his one, complimentary poker chip for him. But I think Rick Smith and Kubiak are still running the show and I don't think they'll let Wade have the freedom he should have.

Patterns, patterns, patterns. Tigers don't change their stripes easily, and I think Kubiak is going to go down with his ship. Wade becomes interim head coach, then full HC, and he tells people that we WILL focus on defense. What happens from there is anybody's guess.

4 of our first 6 draft picks in 2010, were defensive players.

5 of 8 picks in the 2009 draft were defensive players.

4 of 7 picks in the 2008 draft.... defense.

4 of 7 picks in the 2009 draft... defense.

Of those 4 years, the 1st round pick has been a defensive player, with the exception of 2008.

Gary Kubiak has built one of the best offenses in the league, with a Pro Bowl WR, 1 first round pick, 2 second round picks, & a shitload of undrafted free agents.

What, exactly, about this "Pattern" makes you think Smith & Kubiak do not want to fix this defense?

thunderkyss
03-06-2011, 04:35 PM
Our defense didn't suck because it was a 4-3 anymore than converting to a 3-4 will automatically make it a success. It sucked largely because of the personnel on defense and the defensive coachs.
So changing DC is a significant move given he'll bring mostly new defensive coachs along with himself and probably have a lot to say about who plays defense. No doubt he already has with the recent moves in releasing and/or tendering defensive players. Actually I think Wade is almost a co-HC right now ?

They've all been "Assistant HC" as far as title goes.

I believe the conservative nature of our play (which was in extreme contrast to 2009's) was our downfall. Hopefully, being that Wade came from outside of Gary's "circle" he won't be pressured into playing conservative when he knows better. Being aggressive will always open the chances of giving up big plays, but that's what a defense does. Play aggressive. Make something happen.

Hopefully (again with that word) Wade will be more of an "Assistant HC" than just title alone.

houstonspartan
03-06-2011, 06:33 PM
Good grief.

1) You say this every single year, Dale.

2) All the Texans have done is release some players and re-sign others.

Sorry, but I'm not booking my Super Bowl 2012 hotel room just yet.

Lucky
03-06-2011, 08:04 PM
When you use the Redskins' front office as an example for anything other than how not to do it, you've likely made a mistake.
Mike Shanahan is the man in charge in Washington. He's won and deserves the benefit of the doubt. Smithiak have 5 years with zilch to show for it. If there's an example of how not to do it, it's here in Houston.

GP
03-06-2011, 08:14 PM
What, exactly, about this "Pattern" makes you think Smith & Kubiak do not want to fix this defense?

Oh, I don't know...maybe Gary Kubiak's (and to an extent Rick Smith's) complete 5-year-long inability to put together as good of a defense as they have an offense.

Did I really have to type that out, TK? This is so elementary, man. You knew that. You sit there and sing high praises for his offense, which I agree is warranted, but look at the other side of the ball and tell me how the difference can be so stark and so 180-degrees out of phase.

The answer? The guy doesn't know what in the hell to do on defense, and for 5 years he hired guys who either (a) also didn't know what in the hell to do or (b) were trying to do something but had Gary/Rick's fingerprints on everything.

My main fear is that Wade Phillips is in for a rude awakening. Kubiak weathered the storm, he smiled and "made nice" way back when Wade was brought in. But now Wade could find himself settling in for a situation where Gary dictates too much. And I think Wade is the type who knows he just needs to keep a low profile, do his best, and let the chips fall where they may. I see a lot of talk out of Gary Kubiak about how he's going to "lean [rely] upon Wade, " and that he (Gary) is going to "really listen to Wade." All of it's just talk. Let me see how the fruit bears out in real life.

I think Wade could do a tremendous job. But what's the climate like? What degree of control is Wade going to have, in real life? That's what I mean when I say that Gary is accustomed to being the smartest man in the room and at full control--Remember: He said he gets input from people throughout the week, but in the actual game GARY is calling the shots. Well, that means Gary can (in effect) do whatever in the hell he wants to do no matter if that halfback pass he calls near the goal line is something 99% of the other coaches would have called there.

In the heat of the moment, our human nature kicks in and we revert back to what we know best. I still think Gary ends up getting fired, Wade as interim and then bumped up to full time HC. It's how it's going to end, because Wade's in the fold now and Gary would be entering his last season as a lame duck HC. That's why I think Gary's gonna' go full steam ahead this year and not really give a shit about helping Wade out (as Favre once said, of Aaron Rodgers, back in Green Bay..."I'm not here to mentor him."). Yeah, it might behoove Kubiak to get all the help he can get from Wade, which would demand that he give Wade whatever Wade wanted...but then again, I just don't see Gary going that route. The guy's pretty stubborn.

GP
03-06-2011, 08:24 PM
Our defense didn't suck because it was a 4-3 anymore than converting to a 3-4 will automatically make it a success. It sucked largely because of the personnel on defense and the defensive coachs.
So changing DC is a significant move given he'll bring mostly new defensive coachs along with himself and probably have a lot to say about who plays defense. No doubt he already has with the recent moves in releasing and/or tendering defensive players. Actually I think Wade is almost a co-HC right now ?

Wade knows the 3-4, idexan. He's good at it. He can also handle other defenses, but the 3-4 is his specialty.

That alone, my friend, is why we stand a chance at improvement. Just the fact that we have a NEW d-coord who is trying something NEW is a breath of fresh air. We've had 5 years of fail on defense. None of the 4-3 d-coords we've had here could get the 4-3 to work.

With the 3-4, you have better chances at confusing the offense due to the dizzying numbers of pre-snap looks you can show and use as bait right up until the snap. We have Barwin back, which I think is a huge 3-4 puzzle piece. Mario is athletic and nimble enough to run around in the 3-4. I just think we'll do better in a 3-4 than we ever did in a 4-3.

All of it's probably for nought, anyways, because Gary Kubiak will still find a way to screw things up. I have zero confidence in the guy, despite his ability to build a competent offense. It takes more than that to make a team succeed.

And in terms of Wade being a co-HC? In theory it sounds good, but then again it can cause factions within the locker room. Or, it might turn out that Kubiak deals pretty heavy-handed with Wade and things are not nearly as promising as Wade thought when he was hired on. McNair hired Wade, and I just don't know how Gary will deal with knowing Bum's son is in the house and in position to claim the throne if things go bad in 2011. Could make a guy see shadows and things that aren't really there, paranoia, etc.

It has a chance to work. A slim chance, IMO.

dalemurphy
03-06-2011, 08:43 PM
Mike Shanahan is the man in charge in Washington. He's won and deserves the benefit of the doubt. Smithiak have 5 years with zilch to show for it. If there's an example of how not to do it, it's here in Houston.

A few things: Shanahan isn't in charge. Bruce Allen is the GM and I believe he has the final say... except when Dan Snyder decides to interject himself. Also, Shanahan hasn't exactly shown himself to be more adept at solving issues on the defensive side of the ball than Kubiak has. He was burning through coordinators at a high rate without success his final few years in Denver. Also, Shanahan is the same guy that absolutely butchered the QB situation last season, including deciding to with Rex Grossman during the fourth quarter of a game in doubt... Shanahan also volunteered to work for the most despicable man in the NFL, when he had other opportunities. So, I'm not sure I would hold Shanahan up as an example, regardless of what he did 10 years ago.

Finally, you can't honestly think throwing that much money at Atogwe was a good idea? Especially when the market is about to be flooded with DB talent.

I will be all over the organization if they sit on their hands during the real thing. I have reason to believe that won't happen and I am excited that we may be only one week away from finding out if I'm right.

Lucky
03-06-2011, 08:58 PM
A few things: Shanahan isn't in charge. Bruce Allen is the GM and I believe he has the final say...
Really? How much $ is Bruce Allen making compared to Shanahan's deal? Please (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4801852).

At the podium stood Mike Shanahan, who has a $35 million, five-year contract that gives him final authority over football decisions as head coach and executive vice president of the Washington Redskins (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=was).
I don't want to defend what the Redskins have or haven't done under Shanahan. But you brought them into the discussion. The Texans can't compare themselves to any NFL team in a positive manner.

dalemurphy
03-06-2011, 09:07 PM
Really? How much $ is Bruce Allen making compared to Shanahan's deal? Please (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4801852).


I don't want to defend what the Redskins have or haven't done under Shanahan. But you brought them into the discussion. The Texans can't compare themselves to any NFL team in a positive manner.

Lucky, I don't think Vinny Cerrato was making more money than Marty Schottenheimer, Norv Turner, Steve Spurrier, or Joe Gibbs but Cerrato remained in place as the head of football operations as Snyder's right hand man as each of these coaches were replaced.

And yes, the Texans are a much better NFL organization than the Dan Snyder Washington Redskins. If you can't see that then I'm not sure why you are rooting for the Texans. I sure wouldn't be. There is no way I would tolerate an owner like that guy.

Here's an amazing article on Snyder (http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/40063/the-cranky-redskins-fans-guide-to-dan-snyder/)

Texan_Bill
03-06-2011, 10:07 PM
:blah: :blah: :blah:

If not for optimism, than why the hell did I re-invest in my season tickets???


That is all, I am out! :runaway:

Joe Texan
03-06-2011, 10:11 PM
:toropalm:

TexCanada
03-06-2011, 10:37 PM
I am cautiously optimistic, but we really need to make at least 2-3 quality signings in FA before I get too excited.

Nawzer
03-06-2011, 10:40 PM
I'm not excited but I am sort of optimistic at this point in the off season. I was happy they re-signed OD to a long term deal. Other than that its still early but I hope they will make a big splash in free agency signing to fix the defense.

dalemurphy
03-06-2011, 11:23 PM
I am cautiously optimistic, but we really need to make at least 2-3 quality signings in FA before I get too excited.

I am anticipating at least 2 "A level" signings and then 2-3 more NFL starting caliber players.

A little birdy passed along this rumor: Asomugha rumor (http://www.texansbullblog.com/biggest-news-day-texas-major-rumor/news/)

the rumor is towards the bottom of the article.

gary
03-06-2011, 11:50 PM
I am anticipating at least 2 "A level" signings and then 2-3 more NFL starting caliber players.

A little birdy passed along this rumor: Asomugha rumor (http://www.texansbullblog.com/biggest-news-day-texas-major-rumor/news/)

the rumor is towards the bottom of the article.
I sure hope so Dale.

Lucky
03-06-2011, 11:52 PM
Lucky, I don't think Vinny Cerrato was making more money than Marty Schottenheimer, Norv Turner, Steve Spurrier, or Joe Gibbs but Cerrato remained in place as the head of football operations as Snyder's right hand man as each of these coaches were replaced.

And yes, the Texans are a much better NFL organization than the Dan Snyder Washington Redskins. If you can't see that then I'm not sure why you are rooting for the Texans. I sure wouldn't be.
First, the fact is that Shanahan is in charge in Washington. So just say you were wrong and move on.

Second, I have followed this team since the inception. That doesn't mean I won't question the decisions and ability of the owner, coaches, players, or trainers. Who's the better organization, the Skins or the Texans? Who cares, they both suck.

Third, I don't want to get into the whole "Why are you a fan? Who's the better fan" crapola. I don't need to define my fandom to you, nor you to me. But I guess I can explain my point of view best from this 2008 post.

I'm not one of the fans in the stands who celebrates every first down. I celebrate smart, winning football. The Houston Texans are not playing that brand of football, else they would be winning more than they are losing.

.
After 7 seasons, I'm past the "just lay back and enjoy it" aspect of fandom. I want to win. I want to see an organization that is committed to winning. I don't care who the head coach is. Who the defensive coordinator is. Who the QB is. Or who the strength coach is. I want to see the playoffs here in Houston. And I will continue to complain, loudly, until that happens.
Um, make that 9 seasons. And counting...


A little birdy passed along this rumor: Asomugha rumor (http://www.texansbullblog.com/biggest-news-day-texas-major-rumor/news/)

From the link above:

“Bob McNair is very upset with the season and the defensive performance. In that light, he has ordered Rick Smith to sign Nnambi Asomugha this off-season and has authorized him to make three other, significant free agent signings on the defensive side of the ball (in other words, McNair is advocating 4 impact free agents added to the defense this year).”

Do you have a link to that rumor? Care to elaborate? Kind of flys in the face of McNair's "We don't need a lot of changes in personnel" quote.

dalemurphy
03-07-2011, 12:25 AM
First, the fact is that Shanahan is in charge in Washington. So just say you were wrong and move on.

Second, I have followed this team since the inception. That doesn't mean I won't question the decisions and ability of the owner, coaches, players, or trainers. Who's the better organization, the Skins or the Texans? Who cares, they both suck.

Third, I don't want to get into the whole "Why are you a fan? Who's the better fan" crapola. I don't need to define my fandom to you, nor you to me. But I guess I can explain my point of view best from this 2008 post.


Um, make that 9 seasons. And counting...


From the link above:



Do you have a link to that rumor? Care to elaborate? Kind of flys in the face of McNair's "We don't need a lot of changes in personnel" quote.



I wasn't talking about who is a better fan, or not. I was simply stating that if I felt this organization was as bad as the one in Washington, I wouldn't continue to follow it.

I've written a lot about what I perceive to be a change in attitude after this season. I'm aware of the quotes that paraphrase Wade's contentment with the defensive personnel. However, it is clear to me that there is a sense of urgency that hasn't been there before. Furthermore, there is an acknowledgement that the way things have been done haven't been successful. And, it is clear to me that they see a need to do things differently. On our blog, I wrote a ton of articles discussing this in early January and pointing out quotes from Bob and Gary.

Regarding the rumor... a fan approached me a week before the hire of Wade and told me that he had a source, etc... the information ended up being dead on, with a fair amount of detail... This same person approached me to tell me the same source told him that rumor. The person that communicated the rumor to me is honest and sincere but he is not, himself, anywhere near the inner-circle of the Texan organization. I was clear in the article of the reliability of the source and where it came from. He does not want me to use his name nor the name of the person feeding him the information. There is not much more I can say about it.

GP
03-07-2011, 01:27 AM
However, it is clear to me that there is a sense of urgency that hasn't been there before.

Sense of urgency is incongruent with the Texans organization. They're always 2 or 3 years behind the normal curve, dale.

In regards to your source who informed you of the Wade Phillips hiring, and the impending move to sign Aso and 3 other significant defensive players, all I can say is that if this ends up coming true...you better buy that guy a steak dinner AND never ever ever ever reveal his identity. Keep him on your payroll and let's let this informant be texanstalk.com's best kept secret, ok?

dalemurphy
03-07-2011, 01:40 AM
Sense of urgency is incongruent with the Texans organization. They're always 2 or 3 years behind the normal curve, dale.

In regards to your source who informed you of the Wade Phillips hiring, and the impending move to sign Aso and 3 other significant defensive players, all I can say is that if this ends up coming true...you better buy that guy a steak dinner AND never ever ever ever reveal his identity. Keep him on your payroll and let's let this informant be texanstalk.com's best kept secret, ok?

Last season, at this point, I thought the pessimists were nuts. I couldn't understand why you guys were down on the team. Though I certainly was irritated with the way certain things happened (Chris Brown v. Jacksonville, the safety position going unaddressed in the off-season), it was clear to me that this team was on the verge of breaking through. And, frankly, it had been a fun season.

I get it now, though... after that disgrace of a season in 2010, I'm extremely irritated with Rick Smith, Gary Kubiak, and company. They really blew it. I can point to five or six decisions during the off-season that derailed the team.

However, my optimism for this season isn't based on revisionist history. I understand the failings of this group. However, I think they are doing business differently this season. Certainly, the Wade Phillips hiring was a positive step. And, if my info is correct on how they attack free agency, we will all be celebrating. But, you are right, that I don't know with any real certainty. And, history is not on my side. So, we wait... Hopefully, though, we don't wait for long. COME ON, CBA!!

Doppelganger
03-07-2011, 09:00 AM
hope springs eternal

The problem with the Texan D is they're to soft & predictable up front. I'm giddy that Wade can see this & make appropriate changes both in scheme & personel.

I found the perfect NT for the soft Texans D. I think he fits in with the overall team philosophy. What do you think?!

http://drivemomcrazy.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/staypuft-marshmallow-man.jpg

thunderkyss
03-07-2011, 09:35 AM
Oh, I don't know...maybe Gary Kubiak's (and to an extent Rick Smith's) complete 5-year-long inability to put together as good of a defense as they have an offense.

Did I really have to type that out, TK? This is so elementary, man. You knew that.


Yeah, it might behoove Kubiak to get all the help he can get from Wade, which would demand that he give Wade whatever Wade wanted...but then again, I just don't see Gary going that route. The guy's pretty stubborn.

Let's stay on topic. I was responding to one of your post, where you said the patterns indicate Kubiak would give Wade one high priced player.

The pattern actually indicates Kubiak has invested damn near his entire draft to fix the defense.

As stubborn as the guy is, he knows there is a problem on defense. He knows the defense needs talent. He's been trying to do just that from day one.

The difference, & I agree, the clowns he had on that side of the ball didn't know what to do with the talent they were given, or didn't know what talent looked like. I see some very fine defensive players, Quin, Mario, Demeco, Cushing, even Pollard & Kjax........ so I don't think we are hurting as much from a talent stand point as many here want to believe. I think the coach (Wade) will make a huge difference.

I also don't understand why anyone would think Kubiak/Smith will stand in the way of Wade picking the top talent available.

If it's a money thing, we'll find out. I don't know why that's lingering out there, with the amount of money we've thrown away on bad players. But this off-season should be the definitive answer.

Bottom line, the pattern indicates Wade will have his say, and get his players.

thunderkyss
03-07-2011, 09:38 AM
I think Wade could do a tremendous job. But what's the climate like? What degree of control is Wade going to have, in real life? That's what I mean when I say that Gary is accustomed to being the smartest man in the room and at full control--Remember: He said he gets input from people throughout the week, but in the actual game GARY is calling the shots. Well, that means Gary can (in effect) do whatever in the hell he wants to do no matter if that halfback pass he calls near the goal line is something 99% of the other coaches would have called there.


Again, you're pulling shit out of your ass.

The man spent more than a decade behind Mike Shanahan.... how could he possibly be "accustomed" to being the smartest man in the room.

You're making this too hard, worrying about stuff that isn't even there..... or at least, we have no idea if it's there, & chances are it's not.

Second Honeymoon
03-07-2011, 09:40 AM
Let's stay on topic. I was responding to one of your post, where you said the patterns indicate Kubiak would give Wade one high priced player.

The pattern actually indicates Kubiak has invested damn near his entire draft to fix the defense.

As stubborn as the guy is, he knows there is a problem on defense. He knows the defense needs talent. He's been trying to do just that from day one.

The difference, & I agree, the clowns he had on that side of the ball didn't know what to do with the talent they were given, or didn't know what talent looked like. I see some very fine defensive players, Quin, Mario, Demeco, Cushing, even Pollard & Kjax........ so I don't think we are hurting as much from a talent stand point as many here want to believe. I think the coach (Wade) will make a huge difference.

I also don't understand why anyone would think Kubiak/Smith will stand in the way of Wade picking the top talent available.

If it's a money thing, we'll find out. I don't know why that's lingering out there, with the amount of money we've thrown away on bad players. But this off-season should be the definitive answer.

Bottom line, the pattern indicates Wade will have his say, and get his players.

Pollard gone. KJax? really. Let's just call him KBurnt if we are going to anoint him a nick.

There is a difference between identifying a problem and being competent enough to fix said problem. Smithiaknair have shown themselves to be woefully incompetent assembling a defense. They are total garbage and cheap bastards.

thunderkyss
03-07-2011, 09:42 AM
:blah: :blah: :blah:

If not for optimism, than why the hell did I re-invest in my season tickets???


That is all, I am out! :runaway:

Invest?

You think these tickets are an investment?????

Bill, I look at my tickets like the $100 I plan on losing when I go to the casino's.... it's the price of entertainment.

If I leave with more than I brought, Whoopie....... if not, at least I had a good time.

thunderkyss
03-07-2011, 09:49 AM
I get it now, though... after that disgrace of a season in 2010, I'm extremely irritated with Rick Smith, Gary Kubiak, and company. They really blew it. I can point to five or six decisions during the off-season that derailed the team.


I'd like to see that write-up....

thunderkyss
03-07-2011, 09:51 AM
There is a difference between identifying a problem and being competent enough to fix said problem. Smithiaknair have shown themselves to be woefully incompetent assembling a defense. They are total garbage and cheap bastards.

I'm not arguing this. Kubiak, McNair, & Smith have said they are going to get Wade the players he wants.


There is nothing, not even a historical pattern (as GP suggests), to indicate otherwise.

dalemurphy
03-07-2011, 10:25 AM
I'd like to see that write-up....

Try this one (http://www.texansbullblog.com/answer-replaced/news/)

Or this is my best effort to understand/explain where McNair has gone wrong (http://www.texansbullblog.com/england-answers-pathetic-texans-defense/featured-articles/)

thunderkyss
03-07-2011, 10:39 AM
Try this one (http://www.texansbullblog.com/answer-replaced/news/)

Just a few questions, after reading this one.

Frank Okam was picked up by two teams, & started three games with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

DelJuan Robinson fell of the face of the earth.


Why do you think that is?

I'm not trying to defend anyone, or diss you in any way..... just thinking.

Pete Carol & the Seahawks, & Raheem Morris and the Buccaneers apparently saw the same thing in Okam that Kubiak & Crew did. No one saw what you saw in DelJuan.

GP
03-07-2011, 10:56 AM
Let's stay on topic. I was responding to one of your post, where you said the patterns indicate Kubiak would give Wade one high priced player.

The pattern actually indicates Kubiak has invested damn near his entire draft to fix the defense.

As stubborn as the guy is, he knows there is a problem on defense. He knows the defense needs talent. He's been trying to do just that from day one.

The difference, & I agree, the clowns he had on that side of the ball didn't know what to do with the talent they were given, or didn't know what talent looked like. I see some very fine defensive players, Quin, Mario, Demeco, Cushing, even Pollard & Kjax........ so I don't think we are hurting as much from a talent stand point as many here want to believe. I think the coach (Wade) will make a huge difference.

I also don't understand why anyone would think Kubiak/Smith will stand in the way of Wade picking the top talent available.

If it's a money thing, we'll find out. I don't know why that's lingering out there, with the amount of money we've thrown away on bad players. But this off-season should be the definitive answer.

Bottom line, the pattern indicates Wade will have his say, and get his players.

I didn't stray from the topic. I was addressing free agency and you are talking about draft picks. Similar, yet vastly different.

You're trying to point to draft picks as proof of something so I'll go with the flow for a second here. I think it's possible that those draft picks that were made over the past 5 years, for the defense, were likely Gary and/or Rick's doing and not as much a result of the d-coord. In short: I think Gary and Rick were living vicariously though their d-coords in terms of acquiring defensive talent, with Gary and Rick ultimately using their bully pulpit to influence who Richard Smith and later on Frank Bush would ultimately select as their picks on defense. Not that the d-coord had "zero" say in the matter, but I think Gary and/or Rick would do their best to either narrow the field to the guys THEY felt were the best picks in a round or at a position of need on defense, and in some way Smithiak would find a way to get the d-coord to get the guy Smithiak wanted all along.

I can see Kubiak's success at building a good offense bleeding over into other areas, whereby he now uses his success on offense to be a bully pulpit so that he can influence his two past d-coords into trusting what Gary says about the matters on defense. In essence, our HC was trying to be responsible for the whole thing. He saw it as his duty to oversee and manage offense AND defense, with the coordinators serving mostly as assistants to him (Gary). This is certainly true on offense, and it doesn't take much imagination to think it could be extended to the defense as well. I'm not saying that Kubiak was calling defensive plays. I'm saying that the overall structure and the acquisitions were likely something that Kubiak had a huge hand in building.

I say this because the 5-year drought was marked by Kubiak giving HIS d-coordinators time to do their work, which is why Kubiak was so gosh-darned supportive of his d-coords (because Gary was truly the one running the show!!!) and then all of a sudden BAM! here's a McNair hiring (Wade Phillips) which breaks from the 5-year tradition we've had going on with Kubiak's methods. We now have, theoritically, a Senate and a House and McNair in the Executive branch--Checks and balances that I don't think were there before. It was Kubiak's ship on both sides of the ball. Those defensive draft picks, those defensive free agent acquisitions, and that overall defensive philosophy was Smithiak through and through. Their little experiment and dabbling in the defense is (or maybe I should say "should be" since I will believe it when I see it) over and done with.

We have a guy in place (Wade) who SHOULD be his own self-sufficient and self-governing entity and get whatever he wants and do whatever he wants. That's how it appears. I have learned that appearances can be deceiving. Intentions are funny little creatures. McNair might intend for it to play out a certain way, but when the real bullets start flying (as opposed to the Texans P.R. division's simulated war games) all roads paved by good intentions might lead straight to hell.

I think Kubiak's tenure is two-fold: It's marked by (a) creating a very efficient and potent offense, but is also marked by (b) stubborn "control" issues pertaining to the defense that wasted five years of said offense mastery.

It doesn't matter if the guy made a great offense. Football is a game of offens AND defense. Have we found a solution? Maybe. It's up to Kubiak and his ego, though.

THEREFORE, in reply to your statement that Kubiak has been "trying to address the problem" I say this: He never should have been trying to do something he's certainly and obviously unqualified to do, but he tried it anyway and it has cost us for 5 years. That makes me mad, TK. Mad at McNair for not stepping in and doing this 5 years ago like he should have. Mad at Kubiak, if my theory is right, for not being man enough to tell McNair he needs the best d-coord he could get his hands on (and I seriously doubt Richard Smith was that man at the time. Gene Chizik was available and went on to coach at Iowa State...but he was available at the time we hired Richard Smith. Such is life, though). The frustration level is deserved. The lack of trust some fans have, as well as the borderline "crazy conspiracy theory" mentality some of us have, is also deserved because of the epic failures of Gary Kubiak, Rick Smith, and Bob McNair on the defense side of the ball. Total fail. Not even 1% win, IMO.

dalemurphy
03-07-2011, 10:56 AM
Just a few questions, after reading this one.

Frank Okam was picked up by two teams, & started three games with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

DelJuan Robinson fell of the face of the earth.


Why do you think that is?

I'm not trying to defend anyone, or diss you in any way..... just thinking.

Pete Carol & the Seahawks, & Raheem Morris and the Buccaneers apparently saw the same thing in Okam that Kubiak & Crew did. No one saw what you saw in DelJuan.

Even in today's NFL, with all the scouting that exists, it is still the organization that has the player that knows him best.

I'm not suggesting Deljuan Robinson could've been a probowler. I am suggesting that he was a much more useful DT for the Texans than Frank Okam. And, it was clear that Okam was never going to produce here. Go back to 2008, Deljuan was playing quality football and Amobi Okoye was struggling with a bad ankle and playing very poorly. Still, the coaches insisted on leaving Amobi out on the field instead of rotating him out of the game. Why? He was playing horribly and was hurt while Deljuan was playing well. The only answer is that the coaching staff blew it.

These things happen. James Harrison was cut by the Steelers three times, I think, before finally sticking on the roster. I'm sure there were Steeler fans that recognized Harrison could really play despite his lack of height and some of them were livid when he was cut. Fortunately, he stayed under the radar and the Steelers now have a perennial probowler.

thunderkyss
03-07-2011, 11:47 AM
In short....

Wow, that's all I can say.


Wow.

dalemurphy
03-07-2011, 11:57 AM
I didn't stray from the topic. I was addressing free agency and you are talking about draft picks. Similar, yet vastly different.

You're trying to point to draft picks as proof of something so I'll go with the flow for a second here. I think it's possible that those draft picks that were made over the past 5 years, for the defense, were likely Gary and/or Rick's doing and not as much a result of the d-coord. In short: I think Gary and Rick were living vicariously though their d-coords in terms of acquiring defensive talent, with Gary and Rick ultimately using their bully pulpit to influence who Richard Smith and later on Frank Bush would ultimately select as their picks on defense. Not that the d-coord had "zero" say in the matter, but I think Gary and/or Rick would do their best to either narrow the field to the guys THEY felt were the best picks in a round or at a position of need on defense, and in some way Smithiak would find a way to get the d-coord to get the guy Smithiak wanted all along.

I can see Kubiak's success at building a good offense bleeding over into other areas, whereby he now uses his success on offense to be a bully pulpit so that he can influence his two past d-coords into trusting what Gary says about the matters on defense. In essence, our HC was trying to be responsible for the whole thing. He saw it as his duty to oversee and manage offense AND defense, with the coordinators serving mostly as assistants to him (Gary). This is certainly true on offense, and it doesn't take much imagination to think it could be extended to the defense as well. I'm not saying that Kubiak was calling defensive plays. I'm saying that the overall structure and the acquisitions were likely something that Kubiak had a huge hand in building.

I say this because the 5-year drought was marked by Kubiak giving HIS d-coordinators time to do their work, which is why Kubiak was so gosh-darned supportive of his d-coords (because Gary was truly the one running the show!!!) and then all of a sudden BAM! here's a McNair hiring (Wade Phillips) which breaks from the 5-year tradition we've had going on with Kubiak's methods. We now have, theoritically, a Senate and a House and McNair in the Executive branch--Checks and balances that I don't think were there before. It was Kubiak's ship on both sides of the ball. Those defensive draft picks, those defensive free agent acquisitions, and that overall defensive philosophy was Smithiak through and through. Their little experiment and dabbling in the defense is (or maybe I should say "should be" since I will believe it when I see it) over and done with.

We have a guy in place (Wade) who SHOULD be his own self-sufficient and self-governing entity and get whatever he wants and do whatever he wants. That's how it appears. I have learned that appearances can be deceiving. Intentions are funny little creatures. McNair might intend for it to play out a certain way, but when the real bullets start flying (as opposed to the Texans P.R. division's simulated war games) all roads paved by good intentions might lead straight to hell.

I think Kubiak's tenure is two-fold: It's marked by (a) creating a very efficient and potent offense, but is also marked by (b) stubborn "control" issues pertaining to the defense that wasted five years of said offense mastery.

It doesn't matter if the guy made a great offense. Football is a game of offens AND defense. Have we found a solution? Maybe. It's up to Kubiak and his ego, though.

THEREFORE, in reply to your statement that Kubiak has been "trying to address the problem" I say this: He never should have been trying to do something he's certainly and obviously unqualified to do, but he tried it anyway and it has cost us for 5 years. That makes me mad, TK. Mad at McNair for not stepping in and doing this 5 years ago like he should have. Mad at Kubiak, if my theory is right, for not being man enough to tell McNair he needs the best d-coord he could get his hands on (and I seriously doubt Richard Smith was that man at the time. Gene Chizik was available and went on to coach at Iowa State...but he was available at the time we hired Richard Smith. Such is life, though). The frustration level is deserved. The lack of trust some fans have, as well as the borderline "crazy conspiracy theory" mentality some of us have, is also deserved because of the epic failures of Gary Kubiak, Rick Smith, and Bob McNair on the defense side of the ball. Total fail. Not even 1% win, IMO.


Strong argument. I don't agree with some of it but you have me reconsidering some things.

Did you hear the rumor that Rick Smith was furious after Richard Smith was fired because he was wanting a group of candidates interviewed but Kubiak refused to interview and immediately settled on Bush?

Anyway, I am hopeful that all of these guys have seen how their formula was a failure and they have shifted the way they do things.

Double Barrel
03-07-2011, 12:16 PM
"Optimism - the doctrine or belief that everything is beautiful, including what is ugly." ~ Ambrose Bierce :truck:

GP
03-07-2011, 12:53 PM
Strong argument. I don't agree with some of it but you have me reconsidering some things.

Did you hear the rumor that Rick Smith was furious after Richard Smith was fired because he was wanting a group of candidates interviewed but Kubiak refused to interview and immediately settled on Bush?

Anyway, I am hopeful that all of these guys have seen how their formula was a failure and they have shifted the way they do things.

Since the jettisoning of David Carr, I started paying a lot more attention to Smithiaknair than I had before. I was a guy who thought the Texans were on top of things and that it was just pure bad luck that we hadn't become better over the first few years of our existence.

Well, what did it for me was when people on here connected the dots about how Kubiak said "I can rebuild David Carr" and then one year later he's as gone as that last slice of pizza at a teenage slumber party. GONE.

That's when I said, "OK, I think there is a bit of a shell game going on here." That's when I knew that I had to be more critical of the Texans than I had been up to that point. Why would McNair force David Carr upon the new HC? Why would the potential new HC blatantly lie and say "OK, sure thing boss" and then have us sit here and think that he wouldn't also eat crap and grin about other things within the system? You steal once, it becomes easier to steal again. You say a little white lie, and it's easier to tell a bit bigger fib the next time. These things gain momentum. I bet one of Gary Kubiak's biggest regrets is that he went with the flow on keeping Carr. I bet he wished he had made an ultimatum to McNair and said he wouldn't take the job if he wasn't allowed to study film and cut the kid right away if he needed to. because as foolish as this sounds, I don't think Kubiak has been all that genuine about a lot of other situations. He strikes me as the employee who would eat crap for 30 years if it meant going with the flow and getting that pension at the end. Some people call that "loyalty and duty" but I call it "sad and paralyzing."

How can this guy promote himself as being a top-ranked head coach in the NFL if he can't say "Rick, cut that Carr kid loose or damn sure try to get something for him before I start my first practices with my new team"? As well as "Rick, get out there and find me a kicker by the end of Wednesday. Kris Brown is benched until further notice, and cut loose the other Brown kid while you're at it. He's getting nowhere and he's using up a roster spot." As well as "Mr. McNair, I can't do everything right now. I'm coming in to build an offense and I need someone who is my equivalent on defense. I won't take the job unless you go get me the VERY best d-coord out there that we think can be the 'kubiak version" on defense. I can't promise anything on Carr, and i need your promise that we'll get the d-coord that will make us better NOW."

I just generally don't trust Kubiak. I think he says all the right things, like the guy who will say anything in the interview to get the job...and worry about the facts and how it all works out later on down the road. This, to me, has directly translated to what we see on the field: Unprepared, sloppy, fly by the seat of their pants guys who are making it up as they go along. Hey, it worked the first time...let's keep going back to that well. In the end, we always revert back to what's most natural. It's human nature.

I used to not be critical like this. I was the guy who thought everything Texans was awesome and it was juuuust a matter of time for us. I now have to be mindful of not being the guy who thinks everything Texans is suckiness. "Living in the ditches, instead of in the middle of the road" so to speak. But man, it's dang hard to live in the middle of the road. You're confined to staying within a few feet of roadway and going straight ahead. And if the direction you're headed (while staying firmly in the middle of the road) is the wrong direction, then you're at fault for having not gotten off the highway and seeking a different route to the final destination.

I WANT us to win. With every fiber of my being. I stuck with the Rockets through all those years of us getting smashed in the playoffs by Karl Malone and John Stockton, and then by the Suns and their squad of goons, and every year we had some team beating us down when we should have went on to win the whole thing. Well, here I am again...hoping that this team gets its act together and shocks the world. I WANT it, just like you guys do.

The Pencil Neck
03-07-2011, 01:50 PM
Since the jettisoning of David Carr, I started paying a lot more attention to Smithiaknair than I had before. I was a guy who thought the Texans were on top of things and that it was just pure bad luck that we hadn't become better over the first few years of our existence.

Well, what did it for me was when people on here connected the dots about how Kubiak said "I can rebuild David Carr" and then one year later he's as gone as that last slice of pizza at a teenage slumber party. GONE.

That's when I said, "OK, I think there is a bit of a shell game going on here." That's when I knew that I had to be more critical of the Texans than I had been up to that point. Why would McNair force David Carr upon the new HC? Why would the potential new HC blatantly lie and say "OK, sure thing boss" and then have us sit here and think that he wouldn't also eat crap and grin about other things within the system? You steal once, it becomes easier to steal again. You say a little white lie, and it's easier to tell a bit bigger fib the next time. These things gain momentum. I bet one of Gary Kubiak's biggest regrets is that he went with the flow on keeping Carr. I bet he wished he had made an ultimatum to McNair and said he wouldn't take the job if he wasn't allowed to study film and cut the kid right away if he needed to. because as foolish as this sounds, I don't think Kubiak has been all that genuine about a lot of other situations. He strikes me as the employee who would eat crap for 30 years if it meant going with the flow and getting that pension at the end. Some people call that "loyalty and duty" but I call it "sad and paralyzing."

How can this guy promote himself as being a top-ranked head coach in the NFL if he can't say "Rick, cut that Carr kid loose or damn sure try to get something for him before I start my first practices with my new team"? As well as "Rick, get out there and find me a kicker by the end of Wednesday. Kris Brown is benched until further notice, and cut loose the other Brown kid while you're at it. He's getting nowhere and he's using up a roster spot." As well as "Mr. McNair, I can't do everything right now. I'm coming in to build an offense and I need someone who is my equivalent on defense. I won't take the job unless you go get me the VERY best d-coord out there that we think can be the 'kubiak version" on defense. I can't promise anything on Carr, and i need your promise that we'll get the d-coord that will make us better NOW."

I just generally don't trust Kubiak. I think he says all the right things, like the guy who will say anything in the interview to get the job...and worry about the facts and how it all works out later on down the road. This, to me, has directly translated to what we see on the field: Unprepared, sloppy, fly by the seat of their pants guys who are making it up as they go along. Hey, it worked the first time...let's keep going back to that well. In the end, we always revert back to what's most natural. It's human nature.

I used to not be critical like this. I was the guy who thought everything Texans was awesome and it was juuuust a matter of time for us. I now have to be mindful of not being the guy who thinks everything Texans is suckiness. "Living in the ditches, instead of in the middle of the road" so to speak. But man, it's dang hard to live in the middle of the road. You're confined to staying within a few feet of roadway and going straight ahead. And if the direction you're headed (while staying firmly in the middle of the road) is the wrong direction, then you're at fault for having not gotten off the highway and seeking a different route to the final destination.

I WANT us to win. With every fiber of my being. I stuck with the Rockets through all those years of us getting smashed in the playoffs by Karl Malone and John Stockton, and then by the Suns and their squad of goons, and every year we had some team beating us down when we should have went on to win the whole thing. Well, here I am again...hoping that this team gets its act together and shocks the world. I WANT it, just like you guys do.

I don't really get your point here.

You lost faith in the Texans when Kubiak said he could fix Carr and then a year later, dumped him without trying to get something in return? And you think he's a liar telling McNair what he wants to hear so that he can keep his job and that lack of responsibility is leaking down to the players? Or... what?

When it comes to Carr, if you remember the Baldinger tape from back in the day, I think anyone looking at Carr's mistakes would think it would be easy to fix and only after working with him would it become obvious that he wasn't going to change. Three other teams have thought that Carr was fixable. I don't think there was any subterfuge on Kubiak's side on that and when it came time to make the change, they pulled the trigger on that. I think us not getting anything in return for Carr was more a failure on McNair's side who was trying to "do good" by Carr by allowing him to walk and sign on with any team that he wanted to play for and not force him to go to whoever we could work out a trade to.

On the defensive coordinator side, I think that Kubiak was trying to give some guys their chance. Every defensive coordinator has to come from somewhere. I think Kubiak tried to give these inexperienced guys that he liked their shot and it didn't work out. And if it was me, I would have fired him for that mistake. There's no way that any of us could say that Smithiak was forcing players down Smith and Bush's throats that they didn't want. I personally doubt that happened. I think that Smith and Bush (and their position coaches) had input on what players we chose.

I think that Phillips is a step in the right direction and if Phillips can construct a good defense, I think this team could be very, very good.

Texecutioner
03-07-2011, 02:04 PM
Three other teams have thought that Carr was fixable. I don't think there was any subterfuge on Kubiak's side on that and when it came time to make the change, they pulled the trigger on that. I think us not getting anything in return for Carr was more a failure on McNair's side who was trying to "do good" by Carr by allowing him to walk and sign on with any team that he wanted to play for and not force him to go to whoever we could work out a trade to.

What other teams were these? There was never a hot market for Carr ever. And don't even think about mentioning teams like Carolina, NY, and San Fran because none of those teams brought Carr over there to be the starter or to even compete for being the starter. He was brought over there to be a back up QB and nothing more. Outside of the Texans there has never been any other QB's job being threatened because of David Carr's arrival.

On the defensive coordinator side, I think that Kubiak was trying to give some guys their chance. Every defensive coordinator has to come from somewhere. I think Kubiak tried to give these inexperienced guys that he liked their shot and it didn't work out. And if it was me, I would have fired him for that mistake. There's no way that any of us could say that Smithiak was forcing players down Smith and Bush's throats that they didn't want. I personally doubt that happened. I think that Smith and Bush (and their position coaches) had input on what players we chose.

Kubiak's ineptitude in finding a DC that knew what the hell he was doing should have had him canned. No other franchise in this league gives a HC that many chances to fail especially when the people he chose in the first place looked like failed experiments before they ever even started. Kubiak seems to think that he's got an entire decade to get things figured out before he'll ever be held accountable and Mcnair has a lot of blame for giving him that kind of mind set. Kubiak's never had a sense of urgency to become a dominant team since he's been there. He has the total "Tortus" mentality. "Slow and steady."

thunderkyss
03-07-2011, 02:37 PM
Kubiak's ineptitude in finding a DC that knew what the hell he was doing should have had him canned.

That is exactly the same thing TPN said.

The Pencil Neck
03-07-2011, 03:17 PM
What other teams were these? There was never a hot market for Carr ever. And don't even think about mentioning teams like Carolina, NY, and San Fran because none of those teams brought Carr over there to be the starter or to even compete for being the starter. He was brought over there to be a back up QB and nothing more. Outside of the Texans there has never been any other QB's job being threatened because of David Carr's arrival.


Straw man, much?

Did I say there was a hot market for Carr? No. Did I say that any team brought Carr in to be a starter? No.

The OCs and QB Coaches at Carolina, NY, and San Fran ALL said that Carr could be salvaged. When Carr went to Carolina, they said that Carr just needed to decompress for a year and be behind a line that would protect him and he would be able to live up to his 1st round draft status. In NY and San Fran, he was seen as a guy that just needed a chance to get his head on straight.

And all those guys were wrong.

Kubiak's ineptitude in finding a DC that knew what the hell he was doing should have had him canned. No other franchise in this league gives a HC that many chances to fail especially when the people he chose in the first place looked like failed experiments before they ever even started. Kubiak seems to think that he's got an entire decade to get things figured out before he'll ever be held accountable and Mcnair has a lot of blame for giving him that kind of mind set. Kubiak's never had a sense of urgency to become a dominant team since he's been there. He has the total "Tortus" mentality. "Slow and steady."

Like I said, the inability of this team to field a decent defense is Kubiak's fault. He's had two DCs that were both his hand picked guys and they both failed miserably. Because of that, Kubiak should have been fired.

I don't mind the "slow and steady" mentality as long as it gets you results. And so far all Kubiak has done is build a great offense but no defense and that's a failure. This team should have been in the playoffs last year. Any other result is failure.

Texecutioner
03-07-2011, 03:35 PM
Straw man, much?

Did I say there was a hot market for Carr? No. Did I say that any team brought Carr in to be a starter? No.

The OCs and QB Coaches at Carolina, NY, and San Fran ALL said that Carr could be salvaged. When Carr went to Carolina, they said that Carr just needed to decompress for a year and be behind a line that would protect him and he would be able to live up to his 1st round draft status. In NY and San Fran, he was seen as a guy that just needed a chance to get his head on straight.

And all those guys were wrong.

Carr was never brought into any of those teams as a potential future. At the time that the Panthers brought him in JD had been playing some of the best football of his career. They weren't thinking of replacing him with Carr. They needed a back up and they took a 5 year starter that failed and it wasn't the worst option since a lot of back ups are previous starters that failed. Then when they saw him play they realized that he was much worse than even they could have imagined.

NY had Eli Manning there, end of story. They didn't even consider Carr for even a second.

And San Fran didn't even hardly give him a sniff over Smith when the season started when Smith was awful for years as well. Carr had already been exposed long enough for them to know better. Carr was never brought over there with optimism of anything other than being just a body at the back up position. The Niners were screwed at the QB position no matter who took the snaps.

So again, Carr was never considered by any 3 teams. Kubiak was the only HC that came out and said he thought he could build a winner with Carr. Those were his words and his thoughts when he came here. No other organization has attempted that mistake other than Kubiak since Capers was fired. They just brought Carr in to compete for the back up position and being the pro bowl practice player that he was always advertised as while here he could play well enough at practice to keep the back up position. There weren't ever any 3 teams interested in Carr though. That's like saying the Texans were interested in Rex Grossman just because we needed a back up and he looked like one of the better options out there considering his experience and short term successes he was capable of. Sure he was okay to be a back up at the time, but there was never any potential chance that he was going to end up as our future where he would take Schaub's job and that wouldn't have qualified as us being interested. Back ups are back ups and there are only a hand full of teams like 5 that have back up QB's that could possibly compete as quality NFL starters.

GP
03-07-2011, 03:40 PM
I don't really get your point here.

You lost faith in the Texans when Kubiak said he could fix Carr and then a year later, dumped him without trying to get something in return? And you think he's a liar telling McNair what he wants to hear so that he can keep his job and that lack of responsibility is leaking down to the players? Or... what?

When it comes to Carr, if you remember the Baldinger tape from back in the day, I think anyone looking at Carr's mistakes would think it would be easy to fix and only after working with him would it become obvious that he wasn't going to change. Three other teams have thought that Carr was fixable. I don't think there was any subterfuge on Kubiak's side on that and when it came time to make the change, they pulled the trigger on that. I think us not getting anything in return for Carr was more a failure on McNair's side who was trying to "do good" by Carr by allowing him to walk and sign on with any team that he wanted to play for and not force him to go to whoever we could work out a trade to.

On the defensive coordinator side, I think that Kubiak was trying to give some guys their chance. Every defensive coordinator has to come from somewhere. I think Kubiak tried to give these inexperienced guys that he liked their shot and it didn't work out. And if it was me, I would have fired him for that mistake. There's no way that any of us could say that Smithiak was forcing players down Smith and Bush's throats that they didn't want. I personally doubt that happened. I think that Smith and Bush (and their position coaches) had input on what players we chose.

I think that Phillips is a step in the right direction and if Phillips can construct a good defense, I think this team could be very, very good.

I didn't lose complete faith when we dumped Carr. It was just the first few steps of the 5-year-long Keep Hope Alive marathon, and I hit the wall and surrendered to the pain two years ago after our epic MNF loss to the Titans (in our own house, due to shanktastic Kris Brown and an inability to keep Vy and CJ locked down--We fell victim to the OPTION RUN play? Multiple times? Seriously?!?!? Aarggh!).

THAT was the final straw, as it was for many on here. It has been a comedy of errors since that time. Like watching the movie Groundhog Day, over and over. I can repeat every line, from every scene, as it happens on the screen.

This will be the last year of having to watch Groundhog Day, one way or another. Either they swim or they sink.

GP
03-07-2011, 03:44 PM
Carr was never brought into any of those teams as a potential future. At the time that the Panthers brought him in JD had been playing some of the best football of his career. They weren't thinking of replacing him with Carr. They needed a back up and they took a 5 year starter that failed and it wasn't the worst option since a lot of back ups are previous starters that failed. Then when they saw him play they realized that he was much worse than even they could have imagined.

NY had Eli Manning there, end of story. They didn't even consider Carr for even a second.

And San Fran didn't even hardly give him a sniff over Smith when the season started when Smith was awful for years as well. Carr had already been exposed long enough for them to know better. Carr was never brought over there with optimism of anything other than being just a body at the back up position. The Niners were screwed at the QB position no matter who took the snaps.

So again, Carr was never considered by any 3 teams. Kubiak was the only HC that came out and said he thought he could build a winner with Carr. Those were his words and his thoughts when he came here. No other organization has attempted that mistake other than Kubiak since Capers was fired. They just brought Carr in to compete for the back up position and being the pro bowl practice player that he was always advertised as while here he could play well enough at practice to keep the back up position. There weren't ever any 3 teams interested in Carr though. That's like saying the Texans were interested in Rex Grossman just because we needed a back up and he looked like one of the better options out there considering his experience and short term successes he was capable of. Sure he was okay to be a back up at the time, but there was never any potential chance that he was going to end up as our future where he would take Schaub's job and that wouldn't have qualified as us being interested. Back ups are back ups and there are only a hand full of teams like 5 that have back up QB's that could possibly compete as quality NFL starters.

That ^^^ was a great post.

I don't see anything out of whack with it. Carr was JAG when he left here. And has been, as such, with every other team he's been lucky enough to land upon.

That guy won life's lottery. How to trim the deficit? Should have made all those teams Carr's been on pay the money to the government instead--It was gonna' get wasted either way.

The Pencil Neck
03-07-2011, 04:16 PM
Carr was never brought into any of those teams as a potential future. At the time that the Panthers brought him in JD had been playing some of the best football of his career. They weren't thinking of replacing him with Carr. They needed a back up and they took a 5 year starter that failed and it wasn't the worst option since a lot of back ups are previous starters that failed. Then when they saw him play they realized that he was much worse than even they could have imagined.

NY had Eli Manning there, end of story. They didn't even consider Carr for even a second.

And San Fran didn't even hardly give him a sniff over Smith when the season started when Smith was awful for years as well. Carr had already been exposed long enough for them to know better. Carr was never brought over there with optimism of anything other than being just a body at the back up position. The Niners were screwed at the QB position no matter who took the snaps.

So again, Carr was never considered by any 3 teams. Kubiak was the only HC that came out and said he thought he could build a winner with Carr. Those were his words and his thoughts when he came here. No other organization has attempted that mistake other than Kubiak since Capers was fired. They just brought Carr in to compete for the back up position and being the pro bowl practice player that he was always advertised as while here he could play well enough at practice to keep the back up position. There weren't ever any 3 teams interested in Carr though. That's like saying the Texans were interested in Rex Grossman just because we needed a back up and he looked like one of the better options out there considering his experience and short term successes he was capable of. Sure he was okay to be a back up at the time, but there was never any potential chance that he was going to end up as our future where he would take Schaub's job and that wouldn't have qualified as us being interested. Back ups are back ups and there are only a hand full of teams like 5 that have back up QB's that could possibly compete as quality NFL starters.

In my original post, I said that three teams thought that Carr was fixable. When did "fixable" translate to "competing for the starter's spot"? You're arguing with me over something that I never said. I never said that any of those teams expected Carr to compete with their starters for a starting spot.

But I do disagree with you over Carr's intended role with the Panthers. The Panthers knew that Delhomme was on his last legs and they wanted to have someone to groom to be his replacement. They thought that Carr might be that guy. In the interviews at the time, they said that Carr just needed to decompress and be behind a line that would protect him (as opposed to what he had to deal with in Houston.) Then Delhomme went down that season and Carr came in and totally stank up the place and they had to pull in Testaverde off his couch to try to salvage something of the season. And that's when they realized that Carr really was that bad.

The Pencil Neck
03-07-2011, 04:18 PM
This will be the last year of having to watch Groundhog Day, one way or another. Either they swim or they sink.

You shouldn't really say that. It's bad Karma.

No one knows what McNair is going to do. If we go 8-8 and miss the playoffs, McNair might keep Kubiak. Especially if there are injuries or something that can be used as an excuse. And then it will be Groundhog Day all over again.

thunderkyss
03-07-2011, 05:34 PM
That ^^^ was a great post.


Except he changed the argument. TPN said two other coaches said they could fix Carr.

Texecutioner, in his quest to be right, has changed the argument to "no other coach said they could build a winner with Carr."

TPN never said such a thing.

Carr will most likely be out of the league in 2011, now everyone should know he is worthless. The Panthers thought they could do something with him. They put him on the field, found out they were wrong. The Giants took 2 years to figure out what Kubiak & the Panthers found out in 1 year. The 49ers found out in 1 year.

But they all thought they could make something out of him. That's why they gave him a spot on the roster.

Playoffs
03-07-2011, 05:45 PM
Addition by subtraction.

#winners!

GP
03-08-2011, 09:41 AM
You shouldn't really say that. It's bad Karma.

No one knows what McNair is going to do. If we go 8-8 and miss the playoffs, McNair might keep Kubiak. Especially if there are injuries or something that can be used as an excuse. And then it will be Groundhog Day all over again.

You know, I really did sort of cringe when I hit the submit button on that.

I had that moment of pause, where I stared at it...and tried to convince myself that it was OK to post that.

I think the two things that will bring about the firing of Kubiak are: (1) 2012 is last year of contract, and (2) Wade Phillips is in the house. Seems like the math is too simple, but I really think McNair knows he simply bought Kubiak one more chance. Wade Phillips is that chance.

Maybe, just maybe, Kubiak would be back for a final year IF the defense made no real progress under Wade in 2011. But if the defense shows inspired effort all season long, and Kubiak's offense still fails to play a full game consistently...I can see McNair rolling the dice on Wade.

Runner
03-08-2011, 10:17 AM
The Texans are peaking during the offseason. Right on schedule.

GP
03-08-2011, 11:07 AM
The Texans are peaking during the offseason. Right on schedule.

I was thinking about using the term "turtle-heading" instead of "peaking."

Texecutioner
03-08-2011, 01:55 PM
Except he changed the argument. TPN said two other coaches said they could fix Carr.

I didn't change anything. He said that 3 teams thought Carr was fixable. That to me says that he's able to be brought in and fine tuned into being their starter. Bringing in a guy as a back up is not thinking he's fixable. It's bringing in a guy to run the offense in case your main guy goes down. Most teams know that if their head starter goes down for a long amount of time that's a very good QB, it means their season is most likely over if it's early in the season. Teams picked up Carr because most back ups are pretty bad and he fit the mold of being just good enough to be a back up and he was even horrible at that. Carr was never some top highly touted back up QB commodity though anywhere. You ever care to even ponder about why he's been a back up on 3 different teams since being released from the Texans or did that just confuse you? When you can't even stay on a team as back up, you're not being brought in to other teams because they think they can fix you. That's just silly.

Texecutioner, in his quest to be right, has changed the argument to "no other coach said they could build a winner with Carr."

I posted the facts with Carr. Everyone knew he was garbage after the Texans were done with him. If you think differently then this sounds like your typical Spin efforts for Kubes that your very famous around here for.



Carr will most likely be out of the league in 2011, now everyone should know he is worthless. The Panthers thought they could do something with him. They put him on the field, found out they were wrong. The Giants took 2 years to figure out what Kubiak & the Panthers found out in 1 year. The 49ers found out in 1 year.

But they all thought they could make something out of him. That's why they gave him a spot on the roster.

None of what you just posted was the case or accurate at all.

The Pencil Neck
03-08-2011, 02:02 PM
I didn't change anything. He said that 3 teams thought Carr was fixable. That to me says that he's able to be brought in and fine tuned into being their starter. Bringing in a guy as a back up is not thinking he's fixable. It's bringing in a guy to run the offense in case your main guy goes down. Most teams know that if their head starter goes down for a long amount of time that's a very good QB, it means their season is most likely over if it's early in the season.

That's not what fixable means to me. Fixable to me means capable of playing in the NFL, even if it's only at a backup level.

I do think that the Panthers thought that he could be groomed into a starter in the future and they were hoping that in a year or two, he'd take over the starting spot from Delhomme. They made all sorts of comments about how he just needed to decompress and be surrounded by the right guys. But then when push came to shove, they found out they were wrong.

I think the Giants and Niners knew he was at best just a veteran backup who they thought could come in and hand the ball off and maybe throw a pass or two and manage the game after they worked with him and got rid of the bad habits he'd picked up from his previous stops. And then they realized they were wrong.

I don't think any of the teams realized just how bad he was.

dalemurphy
03-08-2011, 02:06 PM
Guys... David Carr... really? Let the dead bury the dead, please.

The Pencil Neck
03-08-2011, 02:20 PM
Guys... David Carr... really? Let the dead bury the dead, please.

Ultimately, it was about Kubiak.

Corrosion
03-08-2011, 02:22 PM
Ultimately, it was about $8,000,000.

Fixed that for you. :pirate:

thunderkyss
03-08-2011, 03:38 PM
I do think that the Panthers thought that he could be groomed into a starter in the future and they were hoping that in a year or two, he'd take over the starting spot from Delhomme.

I think the Giants and Niners knew he was at best just a veteran backup who they thought could come in and hand the ball off and maybe throw a pass or two and manage the game after they worked with him and got rid of the bad habits he'd picked up from his previous stops. And then they realized they were wrong.

I don't think any of the teams realized just how bad he was.

I thought the Panthers wanted a strong insurance policy in the event DelHomme played poorly. I'll have to check, but I think he was coming off a pretty bad year. The Panthers thought they had a team, with a question mark at QB.

I don't have a clue what the Giants were thinking.

I think the 49ers wanted someone to push Alex & that other guy.... If they thought DC was a back-up at best, that would be akin to pushing a boulder uphill with a rope.

infantrycak
03-09-2011, 12:13 PM
I thought the Panthers wanted a strong insurance policy in the event DelHomme played poorly. I'll have to check, but I think he was coming off a pretty bad year. The Panthers thought they had a team, with a question mark at QB.

Delhomme had not been playing as well as previously. 2006 QB rating 82.6 v. Carr 2006 82.1.