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EllisUnit
03-04-2011, 01:58 PM
http://prod.www.texans.clubs.nfl.com/news/article-3/Recovering-Barwin-slated-for-key-role-in-3-4/8e959f33-9262-4575-8474-f976303d29ab
http://prod.www.texans.clubs.nfl.com/assets/images/imported/HOU/photos/In_Story_Photos_400_190/400-barwin-injured.jpg

The last time Connor Barwin was on the field at Reliant Stadium, it wasn’t a pretty sight. He was on his back writhing in pain, his right ankle dangling from his leg a way right ankles aren’t meant to dangle.

That was Week 1 of last season, and it’s a far cry from where Barwin is now. Almost fully recovered from that gruesome injury, Barwin was back in Houston on Monday to check in with the Texans’ medical staff. He has spent the offseason rehabbing at the University of Cincinnati, lifting weights and running with the UC football team while taking classes toward his degree.

“It’s going really well,” Barwin said of his rehab. “I’ve been running for six weeks now, and it’s getting better every week. I think (in) another month, two months, I’ll be full-go. The strength’s almost there. There’s just a little bit at the top end that I can tell is not quite 100 percent yet, and that’s normal.”

If Barwin does make a full recovery by the start of May, that’ll give him plenty of time to regain his speed and explosiveness by the start of the 2011 season.

That’s a good thing, because the Texans have big plans for their 2009 second-round pick. Barwin, who will be an outside linebacker in Wade Phillips’ 3-4 defense, was primed for a breakout season in 2010 before he was injured in the first quarter against the Colts on Sept. 12.

“To be honest with you, people have no idea how big of an injury that was for our team,” Texans coach Gary Kubiak said. “We had big expectations for Connor. Our defense had built a bunch of packages for him going into the season, and we lose him before the first half of the first game. It’s funny: It wasn’t talked about very much as we went through the season as we struggled on defense, but I can tell you today it was huge.

“We have high expectations for him. He’s a very big part of the future of this franchise, and of Wade’s defense also.”

In 2009, Barwin led all rookie defensive ends with 4.5 sacks and was a standout performer for the Texans on special teams. He bulked up significantly in the offseason that followed in the hopes of becoming an every-down player.

“He had made big strides during the offseason and during training camp,” defensive line coach Bill Kollar said. “We really saw him getting better, playing stronger, the whole works, and then to end up doing what he did in that first game really turned out to be pretty disheartening. We were figuring that he’d really give us a lot of good pass rush last year, and when we lost him in the first game, it really ended up hurting us quite a bit. So we’re hoping that he’s back at full-go this year.

“He’s moving to outside linebacker and then he’ll be a defensive end in nickel situations rushing the passer, but we hope that he can get back and make those big strides that we were hoping for last year.”

Barwin’s athleticism and quickness make him a natural fit as a 3-4 outside linebacker. He was a walk-on basketball player at Cincinnati and played tight end for his first three seasons in college. As a senior, he moved to defensive end and set an NCAA record for first-year defensive players with 12 sacks.

Barwin wowed NFL scouts at the 2009 Senior Bowl, where he worked out at tight end and defensive end. He also put on a show at the Scouting Combine in Indianapolis, running a 4.66 in the 40-yard dash and posting a vertical jump of 40.5 inches.

“The guy’s really got outstanding movement, very fluid and stuff, and he’s a smart guy, so I don’t think for him it’ll be much of a transition,” Kollar said. “It always takes a little bit of time to get it when you’re playing a new position and learning new stuff, but I don’t think he’ll have a problem at all.”

Barwin does have some experience standing up and dropping into coverage – “at Cincinnati a little bit,” in some games as a rookie and in practice last year before he got hurt. He knows there’s a learning curve ahead, but he’s “extremely excited” about moving to his new position and playing under Phillips.

“This is a huge opportunity for me,” he said. “I’m going to make sure I do everything I can this offseason to be ready to do what I’m asked to do in this defense. I honestly can’t wait to get started. It’s something that is just a huge opportunity for me, to be playing outside linebacker. That’s what a lot of people feel fits my skill set better, so hopefully those people are right.”

Once Barwin is medically cleared, he plans to resume the rigorous boxing training that he did last offseason. For now, it’s all rehab – and two more weeks of upper-level history classes – until his ankle and calf are back to 100 percent.

“I can’t say enough about how much we’re counting on him, but the key right now is him getting back to total health,” Kubiak said. “He’s not quite there yet; it’s still going to take a few more months. But he’s been working at it. He works hard at what he does, works hard in the classroom, loves to play. I’m looking forward to him coming back.”

Malloy
03-04-2011, 02:08 PM
And they lived happily ever after :)

Good stuff, thanks for posting!

IDEXAN
03-04-2011, 02:12 PM
My only thought here is I hope Connar has a full recovery ? An if he does, I doubt that he realizes it this year, maybe in 2012 ?

EllisUnit
03-04-2011, 02:21 PM
i like his quickness and he seems to have a nose for the ball. i think he will make a great OLB in our 3-4. Hopefully he still has all the tools he did before the injury.

El Tejano
03-04-2011, 02:25 PM
I agree that losing Barwin was huge for our team and if Kubiak ever came onto this board, he would've known that all of us knew how bad this impacted our team. It was obvious in the Indy game itself. Manning had a tough time with our defense.

However, if Barwin was so huge for us last year and we knew we had specific packages for him, why in the world did we not get another player that filled his skill set and have a valid backup for him in the event of an injury. Connor was a second year player, and if he could pick up that assignment, even the lowest costing veteran and/or rookie who has the same intangibles as Barwin would've been a super pick up for our team that would've proven valuable. What did we do though? We tried to put square pegs in round holes and asked Rick Smith to find a player or two.

IDEXAN
03-04-2011, 02:52 PM
The guy in this years Draft who's comparable to Barwin is Ryan Kerrigan,
except he's got a much longer and more impressive resume from his time at Purdue. But about same size, same rep for work ethic, same quicks off the edge.

JCTexan
03-04-2011, 03:09 PM
I agree that losing Barwin was huge for our team and if Kubiak ever came onto this board, he would've known that all of us knew how bad this impacted our team. It was obvious in the Indy game itself. Manning had a tough time with our defense.

However, if Barwin was so huge for us last year and we knew we had specific packages for him, why in the world did we not get another player that filled his skill set and have a valid backup for him in the event of an injury. Connor was a second year player, and if he could pick up that assignment, even the lowest costing veteran and/or rookie who has the same intangibles as Barwin would've been a super pick up for our team that would've proven valuable. What did we do though? We tried to put square pegs in round holes and asked Rick Smith to find a player or two.

If I recall weren't they planning on using him as a 3-4 OLB in some packages last year? It really didn't surprise me that Houston didn't have another DE/OLB hybrid like Barwin is capable of being.

Honoring Earl 34
03-04-2011, 03:45 PM
The guy in this years Draft who's comparable to Barwin is Ryan Kerrigan,
except he's got a much longer and more impressive resume from his time at Purdue. But about same size, same rep for work ethic, same quicks off the edge.

Actually few had Barwin's workout and without looking at others yet , we may have our stud already here . We need his partner in the sack business ... a hammer .

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=75418&draftyear=2009&genpos=OLB

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=57020&draftyear=2009&genpos=OLB

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/players.php?genpos=OLB&draftyear=2011&sortorder=tsxpos&order=ASC

dalemurphy
03-04-2011, 05:50 PM
I agree that losing Barwin was huge for our team and if Kubiak ever came onto this board, he would've known that all of us knew how bad this impacted our team. It was obvious in the Indy game itself. Manning had a tough time with our defense.

However, if Barwin was so huge for us last year and we knew we had specific packages for him, why in the world did we not get another player that filled his skill set and have a valid backup for him in the event of an injury. Connor was a second year player, and if he could pick up that assignment, even the lowest costing veteran and/or rookie who has the same intangibles as Barwin would've been a super pick up for our team that would've proven valuable. What did we do though? We tried to put square pegs in round holes and asked Rick Smith to find a player or two.

Exactly! They kept Jesse Nading as his primary backup... Other than white skin, I'm not sure they share any other characteristics... Worse, not only did they not address the position adequately in the off-season, but they decided to keep Nading instead of Jamison (who may have been effective in that role) for reasons that defy understanding.

76Texan
03-04-2011, 09:25 PM
Exactly! They kept Jesse Nading as his primary backup... Other than white skin, I'm not sure they share any other characteristics... Worse, not only did they not address the position adequately in the off-season, but they decided to keep Nading instead of Jamison (who may have been effective in that role) for reasons that defy understanding.

I think it was two different things:

1. Nading played behind Barwin in packages that require a Jack, a stand up guy who moves all over the place. Actually, Nading had played that role even before we drafted Barwin.

2. At the time Barwin came down, the Texans probably thought they can use a couple of old dogs in Ogunleye and Denney.
They probably thought they can stash Jamison away and see what was left in the tank for those vets.
Not that we agreed with the FO.

dalemurphy
03-04-2011, 10:12 PM
I think it was two different things:

1. Nading played behind Barwin in packages that require a Jack, a stand up guy who moves all over the place. Actually, Nading had played that role even before we drafted Barwin.

2. At the time Barwin came down, the Texans probably thought they can use a couple of old dogs in Ogunleye and Denney.
They probably thought they can stash Jamison away and see what was left in the tank for those vets.
Not that we agreed with the FO.

I think they over-valued Nading's special teams roles and undervalued the need for actual playmakers. In '09, Nading was slightly ahead of Jamison on the depth chart also... though, it was quite clear that one was a potential playmaker and the other was a warm body.

Wade has already expressed interest in Jamison transitioning outside in his 3-4. Clearly Wade gets it... I'm encouraged by the off-season, so far, because there seems to be a general shift away from these untalented players they have been relying on from both sides of the ball: Kasey Studdard, Tim Bulman, Eugene Wilson, Nading, etc...

nero THE zero
03-04-2011, 10:26 PM
Are we really lamenting keeping Nading over Jamison?

If you want to find fault in not signing a capable replacement for Barwin, look no further than the nickle and diming of Schobel.

TEXANRED
03-05-2011, 03:04 AM
While reading this the name Bennie Joppru kept repeating in my head.

dalemurphy
03-05-2011, 08:01 AM
Are we really lamenting keeping Nading over Jamison?

If you want to find fault in not signing a capable replacement for Barwin, look no further than the nickle and diming of Schobel.

I disagree. Schobel was out of shape and ask for a lot of money. Any regret regarding Schobel has more to do with the decision not to take care of Mario's injury in July.

IDEXAN
03-05-2011, 08:24 AM
I hope and really expect the Texans to draft atleast 2 OLBs next month, with
their first pick most likely being a guy at that position. We may also need lots of help in the defensive backfield, but I think OLB is even more of a need ?
Lets face it, there's uncertainty about Barwin recovering fully or at a minimum recovering fully in 2011 ? And then there's the issue of his ability to play in pass coverage as an OLB, though as a former basketball player you'd think he's got the skills/athleticism to succeed in coving receivers ?

CloakNNNdagger
03-05-2011, 09:14 AM
i disagree. Schobel was out of shape and ask for a lot of money. any regret regarding schobel has more to do with the decision not to take care of mario's injury in july.


this^^^^^^^^

CloakNNNdagger
03-05-2011, 09:28 AM
I hope and really expect the Texans to draft atleast 2 OLBs next month, with
their first pick most likely being a guy at that position. We may also need lots of help in the defensive backfield, but I think OLB is even more of a need ?
Lets face it, there's uncertainty about Barwin recovering fully or at a minimum recovering fully in 2011 ? And then there's the issue of his ability to play in pass coverage as an OLB, though as a former basketball player you'd think he's got the skills/athleticism to succeed in coving receivers ?


The coverage skill requirements of a 3-4 OLB are so far much greater than their basketball brethren. This article should answer your question. http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Scouting-Linebackers.html

nero THE zero
03-05-2011, 10:02 AM
Schobel was out of shape and ask for a lot of money.
What are you basing this on?

The only information I have ever heard come out about the contract negotiations was that they agreed on a price and then Smith came back and wanted it pro-rated, at which point things fell through.

steelbtexan
03-05-2011, 10:30 AM
What are you basing this on?

The only information I have ever heard come out about the contract negotiations was that they agreed on a price and then Smith came back and wanted it pro-rated, at which point things fell through.

No need to add a guy (Schobel) who Brady said was the DE he hated to face. Because he was always in Brady's face.

thunderkyss
03-05-2011, 10:38 AM
I disagree. Schobel was out of shape and ask for a lot of money. Any regret regarding Schobel has more to do with the decision not to take care of Mario's injury in July.

Plus, picking up Mark Anderson when we did, made Schobel a moot point.

dalemurphy
03-05-2011, 12:13 PM
What are you basing this on?

The only information I have ever heard come out about the contract negotiations was that they agreed on a price and then Smith came back and wanted it pro-rated, at which point things fell through.

Schobel admitted he was out of shape... I think he was asking for $8 million for the season.. We're 6 months removed from it, so I don't recall the exact details. I do know that he was out of shape and not interested in participating in training camp and preseason. That's enough for me to say "no".

ChampionTexan
03-05-2011, 01:31 PM
Straight from the horse's mouth - draw whatever conclusion you will (most unnecessary comment ever).

"It’s late (in the signing process), and I’m not in the best of shape. (But) the bottom line is that we couldn’t come to an agreement,” Schobel said Tuesday from his home in Columbus. “I think they saw me for what I am and not for what I can be.

“I’d gotten heavy, but I’ve lost weight. I’m still probably 10 pounds away from being at my best. It would have taken me another week or two to get into (playing) shape"

link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7221924.html)

nero THE zero
03-05-2011, 04:31 PM
Schobel admitted he was out of shape... I think he was asking for $8 million for the season.. We're 6 months removed from it, so I don't recall the exact details. I do know that he was out of shape and not interested in participating in training camp and preseason. That's enough for me to say "no".

He was two weeks of conditioning away from playing, by his own admission. I guess that's "out of shape." Still nothing to back up your contention that he was asking for too much money.

Fact remains that the Texans had a guy willing and able to replace Barwin and decided to nickle and dime him instead.

Not saying Aaron Schobel is the difference between 6-10 and 10-6, but he's certainly a microcosm of it.

The Pencil Neck
03-05-2011, 05:32 PM
He was two weeks of conditioning away from playing, by his own admission. I guess that's "out of shape." Still nothing to back up your contention that he was asking for too much money.

Fact remains that the Texans had a guy willing and able to replace Barwin and decided to nickle and dime him instead.

Not saying Aaron Schobel is the difference between 6-10 and 10-6, but he's certainly a microcosm of it.

Just because a guy says he's two weeks out of shape doesn't mean that he just needs a couple of weeks to get ready. The telling part of that quote to me was "they saw me as I am" and not "as I could be."

To me, it sounded like his heart really just wasn't in it. I don't think that Schobel was going to make any difference other than taking up a spot that someone younger and in better shape should have gotten.

And all the stories we were hearing at the time made it sound like Schobel wanted to be paid almost as much as he had been slated to be paid by the Bills and that's just way, way too much for what probably would have been very little production.

dalemurphy
03-05-2011, 06:16 PM
He was two weeks of conditioning away from playing, by his own admission. I guess that's "out of shape." Still nothing to back up your contention that he was asking for too much money.

Fact remains that the Texans had a guy willing and able to replace Barwin and decided to nickle and dime him instead.

Not saying Aaron Schobel is the difference between 6-10 and 10-6, but he's certainly a microcosm of it.

Schobel doesn't replace Barwin. Schobel would've been an adequate replacement for Mario while he recovered from the surgery he should've had. If you watch the first half of the Indy game in week one or simply listen to Kubiak talk about him, they planned on using him as a joker and had special packages designed for him. Barwin was the key element to their nickel and dime packages. There is no way Schobel was going to fill that role.

Second Honeymoon
03-05-2011, 07:31 PM
Barwin is not the problem. His injury didn't make our defense suck. our front office's laissez-faire attitude did.

And it will do the same thing this year because it looks like they are going to do the annual dumpster dive. And before you call me crazy or a hater, this is the same thing I said last year and everyone said I was crazy predicting 6-10 on multiple threads. Here is one for you from June after we let people walk and did nothing to improve....because that would cost $$ and we all know McNair loves winning but he loves $$ a lot more than winning

by the way this is from June 2010.

truth hurts. 6-10 here we come.

but at least we were 9-7 last year...that was an awesome 'victory' parade

but yeah, God forbid a fan want their team to sign a player to improve the team

i am soooo off-base here. what a horrible fan I am for wanting the team to address the safety position

God forbid the team improve the team by spending $. what a horrible thing to say.

when we are sucking the tailpipe next year, don't tell me I didn't warn you...

just like I warned a lot of you before...no one listened then so why should I be surprised now.

but then again, most people will act like they saw it coming all along like they did with Carr
its funny how the same people that act like 9-7 was a success and that Kubiak is a good coach and that this was a good offseason are the same clueless homers that thought Carr was the cat's meow.

you know who you are, i won't point any fingers

yes, feel free to read the mensas who call me a hater and have called me a hater since I started round here over 6 seasons ago. Maybe I am just smarter than some of these homering yayhoos...i dunno.

The team will be lucky to get 8 wins in 2011 and if they don't do anything to improve the team in free agency, I actually predict 6-10...again.

Lets hope they finally stop being so damn stupid and cheap and do something

Smithiaknair sucks...but especially Rick and Bob. Cheap ass losers content with mediocrity...like most of this fanbase sadly.

When have I been wrong? I called out the Texans as losers for drafting/re-signing Carr. Called stupid. Proven correct. called out the Texans for hiring loser Kubiak. called hater. Proven correct. Said we would go 6-10 before the season. Called insane (and worse...thanks for the bad rep anyway) and was proven right again. Dont' hate on me because I drop wisdom, knowledge, and intelligence on your domes.

Just wake up and smell the losing. Everyone but Joe Texan should be fed up with this crap. JT can't because he is a cheerleader and being a homer fills the void I guess.

thunderkyss
03-05-2011, 08:35 PM
He was two weeks of conditioning away from playing, by his own admission. I guess that's "out of shape." Still nothing to back up your contention that he was asking for too much money.

Fact remains that the Texans had a guy willing and able to replace Barwin and decided to nickle and dime him instead.

Not saying Aaron Schobel is the difference between 6-10 and 10-6, but he's certainly a microcosm of it.

I was kinda perturbed that the Schobel thing didn't happen. But, we're talking about a guy who retired, walked away from football.. He was saying very early in the offseason, that he would come play for Houston, but when the powers that be went to talk to him, he was out of shape.

What does that say about his desire to play football?

Maybe he would have been fine, or maybe the word is out that we pay people an enormous amount of money & don't expect much in return (hence Shaun Rogers also "wanting" to "play" for Houston).

Maybe the Texans' guessed wrong.... maybe Schobel would have kicked butt for the Texans... we will never know, but to act as if it's a fact that he would, is a little disingenuous to say the least.

Since we weren't able to strike a deal with Schobel, we continued looking for talent at the DE position, and we got Anderson. His age alone makes that a much better deal.

dalemurphy
03-05-2011, 10:21 PM
Barwin is not the problem. His injury didn't make our defense suck. our front office's laissez-faire attitude did.

And it will do the same thing this year because it looks like they are going to do the annual dumpster dive. And before you call me crazy or a hater, this is the same thing I said last year and everyone said I was crazy predicting 6-10 on multiple threads. Here is one for you from June after we let people walk and did nothing to improve....because that would cost $$ and we all know McNair loves winning but he loves $$ a lot more than winning

by the way this is from June 2010.



yes, feel free to read the mensas who call me a hater and have called me a hater since I started round here over 6 seasons ago. Maybe I am just smarter than some of these homering yayhoos...i dunno.

The team will be lucky to get 8 wins in 2011 and if they don't do anything to improve the team in free agency, I actually predict 6-10...again.

Lets hope they finally stop being so damn stupid and cheap and do something

Smithiaknair sucks...but especially Rick and Bob. Cheap ass losers content with mediocrity...like most of this fanbase sadly.

When have I been wrong? I called out the Texans as losers for drafting/re-signing Carr. Called stupid. Proven correct. called out the Texans for hiring loser Kubiak. called hater. Proven correct. Said we would go 6-10 before the season. Called insane (and worse...thanks for the bad rep anyway) and was proven right again. Dont' hate on me because I drop wisdom, knowledge, and intelligence on your domes.

Just wake up and smell the losing. Everyone but Joe Texan should be fed up with this crap. JT can't because he is a cheerleader and being a homer fills the void I guess.


Buckle up, SH, because I think you are about to fall in love with the organization this off-season.. If this CBA gets done next week, you can expect them to make significant splashes in free agency. It will be fun to have you on board the Sunshine Train in about 2 weeks.

Let me add this... If they are stagnant this off-season and operate the way they have... for instance, go into the season planning on starting Shaun Cody at NT, Kareem Jackson at CB and Troy Nolan at safety... then, I'm going to be off the band-wagon and screaming for heads to role before a game has been played.... Don't think it is going to happen like that, though.

Second Honeymoon
03-05-2011, 10:29 PM
Buckle up, SH, because I think you are about to fall in love with the organization this off-season.. If this CBA gets done next week, you can expect them to make significant splashes in free agency. It will be fun to have you on board the Sunshine Train in about 2 weeks.

Let me add this... If they are stagnant this off-season and operate the way they have... for instance, go into the season planning on starting Shaun Cody at NT, Kareem Jackson at CB and Troy Nolan at safety... then, I'm going to be off the band-wagon and screaming for heads to role before a game has been played.... Don't think it is going to happen like that, though.

i hope you are right, but I hope you don't find my lack of faith disturbing.

i think they will do the following:
1. thump their chest over signing OD and maybe Foster
2. draft the same crappy way they always do
3. do the annual dumpster dive like they always do
4. continue to be a pathetic and barely mediocre franchise

they will be lucky to sign one FA worth a crap and their drafting will be par for the course round here...in other words, total crap. I am not even sure they will get even one top tier FA. you iknow why? because they never have. they are afraid of their own shadow much less have the balls to actually try and improve this team.

and the sad thing is they already have built in excuses for not 'winning'.

basically we got all the headaches and growing pains of bringing in a new HC, which is something McNair is deathly afraid of, but instead we get all the headaches of bringing in a new HC without actually bringing in a new HC that could actually not suck as bad as Kubiak....and trust me, he sucks as a HC. no way around it. #FACT #NOTWINNING

whiskeyrbl
03-06-2011, 07:37 AM
I agree that losing Barwin was huge for our team and if Kubiak ever came onto this board, he would've known that all of us knew how bad this impacted our team. It was obvious in the Indy game itself. Manning had a tough time with our defense.

However, if Barwin was so huge for us last year and we knew we had specific packages for him, why in the world did we not get another player that filled his skill set and have a valid backup for him in the event of an injury. Connor was a second year player, and if he could pick up that assignment, even the lowest costing veteran and/or rookie who has the same intangibles as Barwin would've been a super pick up for our team that would've proven valuable. What did we do though? We tried to put square pegs in round holes and asked Rick Smith to find a player or two.

Amen Brother

nero THE zero
03-06-2011, 07:44 AM
Just because a guy says he's two weeks out of shape doesn't mean that he just needs a couple of weeks to get ready. The telling part of that quote to me was "they saw me as I am" and not "as I could be."


I'm not going to speculate on something like that. If he was in active negotiations with a team, tried out, and said that he would be ready to suit up and play at his normals means of production in two weeks, I'm going to take it at face value.

And all the stories we were hearing at the time made it sound like Schobel wanted to be paid almost as much as he had been slated to be paid by the Bills and that's just way, way too much for what probably would have been very little production.
The only information I have heard from the negotiations was from LZ via Schobel's agent, and that was that they had agreed on a price, and that Smith came back and wanted that price pro-rated, which ended discussions. I believe that number was also stated, but I can't recall what it was. I want to say it was $5M, though I could be making that up. Regardless, they wouldn't have agreed on a price in the first place if he was asking for some outrageous number.

nero THE zero
03-06-2011, 07:47 AM
Schobel doesn't replace Barwin. .... There is no way Schobel was going to fill that role.
Is this based on the same thing your assertion that Schobel was asking for too much money was based on (re: nothing)?

CloakNNNdagger
03-06-2011, 08:20 AM
FWIW, I found some old notes on the Schobel situation when it was fresh.:

He said it himself in the Chronicle article that he wasn't in good shape and it would only take a week or two get back in playing.

Common sense would better estimate more like 4-6 weeks. Keep in mind that the last game he played was 01/03/10 which was the last game of last season. So for basically for 9 months, he had no incentive to get in shape because he was thinking about retiring since then. He skipped all of the Bills OTAs, mini-camps, and offseason training programs.

Schobel wanted to come as a starter.

"I'm glad we made an opportunity for (the workout) to happen," Schobel said. "For me to say they made a mistake or I made a mistake, who knows?

"They have a lot of good players and are on the right track. It would have been hard for my ego to be a role player."

It was John McClain and Lance on radio that McClain said that he was under the impression a deal was done when he went in for the workout and then the Texans asked him to take less than they'd already agreed to. John and Lance both said that the Schobel family was furious with the Texans and that they will have nothing to do with the team going forward.

Brisco_County
03-06-2011, 09:06 AM
Hey Cloak, how are the odds that Barwin regains 100% of his explosiveness before camp, or at least before the season starts?

dalemurphy
03-06-2011, 09:51 AM
Is this based on the same thing your assertion that Schobel was asking for too much money was based on (re: nothing)?


If you are that interested in the negotiations and what the sources were saying, do some research.

Schobel couldn't replace Barwin because he didn't have the athleticisim to do so. We were using Barwin as a joker, running a variety of 3-4 looks with Barwin at LBs, having Barwin run loops and stunts and also drop into coverage. Schobel can't do those things. I'm not sure what kind of evidence you are looking for. I would suggest re-watching the Texans game in week one with an eye on Barwin. Then, subscribe to NFL rewind and watch Schobel play for the Bills the past season and try and think about whether he could do what Barwin was being asked to do.

Here's an article I wrote on September 17th, breaking down the various defensive line packages and who was doing what against Indy (http://www.texansbullblog.com/film-study-defensive-line-alignment-indy/featured-articles/film-study/)

CloakNNNdagger
03-06-2011, 09:55 AM
Hey Cloak, how are the odds that Barwin regains 100% of his explosiveness before camp, or at least before the season starts?

This is a piece I posted when Tate was "medically released."


Originally Posted by drs23
Doc, do you still feel the recovery potential for Tate to be in 85-95 % range?

Being medically cleared really doesn't tell you much about his potential for future performance.......only that he has attained about 85% strength in the affected leg compared to the uninjured leg, and that he is released to hard contact. This type of injury takes up to 2 years to maximally recover. How he actually performs on the field is not totally predictable due to the extensive ligament damage that typically accompanies such an injury. His ability to legitemately "return to action" is approximately 85-95%. I would expect that, in time, he will have close to the same potential to return to preinjury potential, but maybe not until nearer the mid to end of the 2011 season (if there is one).

Keep in mind that Barwin's injury was "similar," however, with his foot turned around as exaggerated as it was, you can count on the ligament damage being substantially more extensive . Barwin has been running, but not medically cleared. Running puts very little lateral forces on the ligaments as compared to cutting and changing direction, especially with resistance (against opponents). Again, keep in mind that Barwin was injured 1 month AFTER Tate.

I expect that Barwin has ZERO chance of being himself for TC and more like 80% chance of returning legitimately to action. And if he returns to action, I expect he will be able to regain closer to 80-85% his preinjury performance......and, probably not any earlier than near the end of the upcoming season. As I've found over years of experience, nothing in injury/surgery prognosis can be made in stone. But that's my best feel with the facts released.

steelbtexan
03-06-2011, 10:16 AM
Plus, picking up Mark Anderson when we did, made Schobel a moot point.

If 6-10 was good enough for you.

No need to go out and get the best player available.

I mean getting a player that was playing at a pro bowl level the yr before. Especially when you can sign a FA that got that got cut by the Bears the week before.

I'm not buying the Schobel was in such bad shape that he couldn't help the Texans and their pathetic pass rush. That BoB,Gary and Rick were selling.

It came down to the $$$$ and BoB would rather throw away a season than pony up the $$$$. Either that or Rick and Gary are idiots.

thunderkyss
03-06-2011, 01:47 PM
i hope you are right, but I hope you don't find my lack of faith disturbing.

i think they will do the following:
1. thump their chest over signing OD and maybe Foster
2. draft the same crappy way they always do
3. do the annual dumpster dive like they always do
4. continue to be a pathetic and barely mediocre franchise

they will be lucky to sign one FA worth a crap and their drafting will be par for the course round here...in other words, total crap. I am not even sure they will get even one top tier FA. you iknow why? because they never have. they are afraid of their own shadow much less have the balls to actually try and improve this team.


I do agree it will unfortunately be business as usual this off-season. The CBA provides the excuse they need.

However, I think Smithiak has already improved this team, from the team Kubiak got in 2006. 6-10, hopefully is our floor.... and not 2-14.

But, I don't know about the FA thing. Here is a list of 2010 FAs (http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=83&yr=2010)...I don't believe we can count the guys who signed with their original teams, but...

Julius Peppers & Karlos Dansby. Should we have signed them? We got the best kicker in Rackers.

Thomas Jones...... LT, should we have signed them?

We signed Wade Smith...... I don't even know if he's ranked on the FA list. But he worked out pretty well, I think.

Of course, there were several FA DEs signed for the 2010 season, Peppers, Van den Bosh, Kampman, etc... but we had just signed Smith the year before, and Barwin was a 2nd round pick. Had we known Barwin was going to be injured for the season in week 1.........

We may not make the "splash" everyone likes in FA, but we do pick up some good prospects that usually serve our team well.

thunderkyss
03-06-2011, 02:07 PM
If 6-10 was good enough for you.

No need to go out and get the best player available.

I mean getting a player that was playing at a pro bowl level the yr before. Especially when you can sign a FA that got that got cut by the Bears the week before.

I'm not buying the Schobel was in such bad shape that he couldn't help the Texans and their pathetic pass rush. That BoB,Gary and Rick were selling.

It came down to the $$$$ and BoB would rather throw away a season than pony up the $$$$. Either that or Rick and Gary are idiots.

So you think Schobel would have led us to better than 6-10?

This is because the pro-bowler has done so for Buffalo umpteen times?

Anderson is a better prospect than Schobel, period. We've got plans for Anderson for 2011, most likely further out as well. We'd be patting Schobel on the back, thanking him for his contribution to the 30th rank defense as he rides off into retirement.

nero THE zero
03-06-2011, 02:37 PM
If you are that interested in the negotiations and what the sources were saying, do some research.

Schobel couldn't replace Barwin because he didn't have the athleticisim to do so. We were using Barwin as a joker, running a variety of 3-4 looks with Barwin at LBs, having Barwin run loops and stunts and also drop into coverage. Schobel can't do those things. I'm not sure what kind of evidence you are looking for. I would suggest re-watching the Texans game in week one with an eye on Barwin. Then, subscribe to NFL rewind and watch Schobel play for the Bills the past season and try and think about whether he could do what Barwin was being asked to do.

Here's an article I wrote on September 17th, breaking down the various defensive line packages and who was doing what against Indy (http://www.texansbullblog.com/film-study-defensive-line-alignment-indy/featured-articles/film-study/)

I understand what role Barwin played and was supposed to play on our defense. That's not what I am questioning. I am questioning your assertion that Schobel couldn't play that same position. You have no basis for it.

If Schobel was so unathletic and incapable of playing DE/OLB, I don't see why the Patriots were interested (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/213050-report-patriots-interested-in-lb-schobel) in playing him at OLB.

So, again, I ask you, on what basis do you assert that Schobel was unable to fill Barwin's role? Just because you say things doesn't make them true.

EllisUnit
03-06-2011, 02:41 PM
I understand what role Barwin played and was supposed to play on our defense. That's not what I am questioning. I am questioning your assertion that Schobel couldn't play that same position. You have no basis for it.

If Schobel was so unathletic and incapable of playing DE/OLB, I don't see why the Patriots were interested (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/213050-report-patriots-interested-in-lb-schobel) in playing him at OLB.

So, again, I ask you, on what basis do you assert that Schobel was unable to fill Barwin's role? Just because you say things doesn't make them true.

Everyone was reporting that Schobel was out of shape. We worked him out, and it must of been bad, considering what we had last year. The Patriots were "interested" Well it never went beyond that. I'm sure there was a ReAsOn ?!?!?!?

nero THE zero
03-06-2011, 02:47 PM
Everyone was reporting that Schobel was out of shape. We worked him out, and it must of been bad, considering what we had last year. The Patriots were "interested" Well it never went beyond that. I'm sure there was a ReAsOn ?!?!?!?

I'm sure there was a reason he didn't play for the Patriots, and there's as much of a chance that Schobel not playing for the Patriots was Schobel's prerogative as it was the Patriots'. I'd even venture the chances are greater it was Schobel's decision.

That's neither here nor there. The mere fact that the Patriots were interested in Schobel playing OLB in their system puts to bed any notion that he was incapable of playing it for a couple of plays a game in ours.

EllisUnit
03-06-2011, 02:48 PM
I'm sure there was a reason, and there's as much of a chance that Schobel not playing for the Patriots was Schobel's prerogative as it was the Patriots'.

Regardless, the mere fact that the Patriots were interested in Schobel playing OLB in their system puts to bed any notion that he was incapable of playing it for a couple of plays again in ours.

all I'm saying is that we were interested too. otherwise he wouldn't of worked out for us. I am Interested in Megan Fox, but that's probably as far as that will ever go :photos:

IDEXAN
03-06-2011, 03:00 PM
I'm wondering how much difference there is between the strong-side OLB and weak OLB in the 3-4 ? There's a definite difference in the 4-3, so perhaps ideally you'd also look for 2 different players for the 3-4 OLB positions ?

JB
03-06-2011, 03:07 PM
I'm wondering how much difference there is between the strong-side OLB and weak OLB in the 3-4 ? There's a definite difference in the 4-3, so perhaps ideally you'd also look for 2 different players for the 3-4 OLB positions ?

I think in the 3-4, your strong side OLB is your run defender, coverage guy. And the weak side is your rush LB. Generally speaking.

CloakNNNdagger
03-06-2011, 03:40 PM
I think in the 3-4, your strong side OLB is your run defender, coverage guy. And the weak side is your rush LB. Generally speaking.

I thought that in the 3-4 D, both of the OLB are the primary pass-rushers, and don't play as much coverage. The DEs are just supposed to stuff the run, draw blockers, and break the pocket to open up a path to the QB (or the RB, if he's there with the ball) for the OLB. The ILBs seem to take care of much of the coverage.

There are so many hybrid systems today, that I guess responsibilities can be variable.

thunderkyss
03-06-2011, 03:42 PM
I think in the 3-4, your strong side OLB is your run defender, coverage guy. And the weak side is your rush LB. Generally speaking.

More or less.

I don't see any difference in the S-OLB in either system. The W-OLB is a pass rusher in the 3-4, like you said.

thunderkyss
03-06-2011, 03:45 PM
I thought that in the 3-4 D, both of the OLB are the primary pass-rushers, and don't play as much coverage. The DEs are just supposed to stuff the run, draw blockers, and break the pocket to open up a path to the QB (or the RB, if he's there with the ball) for the OLB. The ILBs seem to take care of much of the coverage.

There are so many hybrid systems today, that I guess responsibilities can be variable.

When Wade got to Dallas, he turned Greg Ellis (a fine DE) into the S-OLB. His primary job was the TE, but he also set the edge on running plays. Demarcus Ware rushed the QB 9 out of 10 snaps.

In passing situations, they went to a 4 man front, Greg Ellis, hands down, Ware, hands down...... they would pull Chris Canty (DE) off the field.

IDEXAN
03-06-2011, 04:24 PM
More or less.

I don't see any difference in the S-OLB in either system. The W-OLB is a pass rusher in the 3-4, like you said.
I would think both OLBs are expected to have skills as pass-rushers, just as
both 4-3 DEs are expected to have pass-rushing skills. Afterall in each defense they are the "edge-rushers".

thunderkyss
03-06-2011, 05:53 PM
I would think both OLBs are expected to have skills as pass-rushers, just as
both 4-3 DEs are expected to have pass-rushing skills. Afterall in each defense they are the "edge-rushers".

The strong side DE is still your edge rusher on the strong side. Especially in Wade's 3-4.

The strong side OLB still has pass rushing responsibilities, just like he did in the 4-3..... I'm not saying he won't rush the passer, I'm saying his job/responsibilities aren't very different from a 4-3 SAM.

Rey
03-06-2011, 06:07 PM
The strong side DE is still your edge rusher on the strong side. Especially in Wade's 3-4.

The strong side OLB still has pass rushing responsibilities, just like he did in the 4-3..... I'm not saying he won't rush the passer, I'm saying his job/responsibilities aren't very different from a 4-3 SAM.

I think the biggest difference is that the S-OLB in a 3-4 is expected to be a better pass rusher than than the OLB in a 4-3.

JimBaker488
03-06-2011, 07:20 PM
The strong side DE is still your edge rusher on the strong side. Especially in Wade's 3-4.

The strong side OLB still has pass rushing responsibilities, just like he did in the 4-3..... I'm not saying he won't rush the passer, I'm saying his job/responsibilities aren't very different from a 4-3 SAM.
I just don't know if that's correct ? I know Dallas drafted Anthony Spencer out of Purdue 3 or 4 years ago in the 1st round, and he was known to be a very talented pass-rusher, and he played as their strong-side OLB and I believe was their primary pass-rusher after Ware ? But you think the DE on the strong-side was really the top pass-rusher after Ware and not Spencer ?

nero THE zero
03-06-2011, 07:37 PM
Doesn't really matter. Dale's contention was that Schobel wasn't athletic enough to play a DE position for us the stands up a few times per game. If the Patriots deemed him athletic enough to play either side OLB, regardless of any differences in assignment, he's athletic enough to stand up a few times a game for us.

dalemurphy
03-06-2011, 07:50 PM
I understand what role Barwin played and was supposed to play on our defense. That's not what I am questioning. I am questioning your assertion that Schobel couldn't play that same position. You have no basis for it.

If Schobel was so unathletic and incapable of playing DE/OLB, I don't see why the Patriots were interested (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/213050-report-patriots-interested-in-lb-schobel) in playing him at OLB.

So, again, I ask you, on what basis do you assert that Schobel was unable to fill Barwin's role? Just because you say things doesn't make them true.

"Role" and "position" are not the same thing. I don't doubt that some 3-4 teams may think Schobel would be a realistic fit for them in certain situations. Once again, I'm saying that Schobel would not be able to do what the Texans had planned with Barwin. Barwin was listed as a DE in a 4-3. I realize Schobel could play that position. However, what he would not be able to do is drop in coverage and run all the twists and exotic blitzes and stunts that they scheduled to do with Barwin. WHy this would even be up for debate is beyond me. Barwin is a special athlete. Schobel is on the backside of an excellent career, gives good effort, understands technique and has good hands. I would have loved for Schobel to be a Texan last year. He could have done a good job playing a traditional DE role for us.

dalemurphy
03-06-2011, 07:56 PM
Doesn't really matter. Dale's contention was that Schobel wasn't athletic enough to play a DE position for us the stands up a few times per game. If the Patriots deemed him athletic enough to play either side OLB, regardless of any differences in assignment, he's athletic enough to stand up a few times a game for us.

I'm not talking about standing up. I'm talking about all the movement. Barwin was going to be the joker... What they had planned for Barwin is similar to the role that Adalius Thomas (LB/DE) had in Baltimore a few years ago. Its similar to the way Adrian Wilson (safety) has been used in the past in Arizona. Regardless of listed position, these players are highlighted in unique ways and can responsibilities at almost every level of the field on a given play. Schobel couldn't do that. There are few players that can.

76Texan
03-06-2011, 10:39 PM
I'm not talking about standing up. I'm talking about all the movement. Barwin was going to be the joker... What they had planned for Barwin is similar to the role that Adalius Thomas (LB/DE) had in Baltimore a few years ago. Its similar to the way Adrian Wilson (safety) has been used in the past in Arizona. Regardless of listed position, these players are highlighted in unique ways and can responsibilities at almost every level of the field on a given play. Schobel couldn't do that. There are few players that can.

And by the same token, Jamison cannot (or at least was not asked to) do the things the Nading did in his back-up role to Barwin.
In another word, when the Texans cut Jamison early in the season, it had nothing to do with Nading because they played different roles.
They were in different packages.

dalemurphy
03-06-2011, 11:28 PM
And by the same token, Jamison cannot (or at least was not asked to) do the things the Nading did in his back-up role to Barwin.
In another word, when the Texans cut Jamison early in the season, it had nothing to do with Nading because they played different roles.
They were in different packages.

Jamison is a better football player and a playmaker. Nading is not a playmaker. I hated the move when it happened. Knowing the severity of Mario's injury now, I really hate it now. Nading does not belong on an NFL roster. Jamison has the potential to be a quality NFL DE. Regardless whether they can do identical things, keeping Nading over Jamison was a mistake that never should've happened if the coaching staff could assess its personnel better.

thunderkyss
03-07-2011, 09:07 AM
I just don't know if that's correct ? I know Dallas drafted Anthony Spencer out of Purdue 3 or 4 years ago in the 1st round, and he was known to be a very talented pass-rusher, and he played as their strong-side OLB and I believe was their primary pass-rusher after Ware ? But you think the DE on the strong-side was really the top pass-rusher after Ware and not Spencer ?

Greg Ellis may not have been elite, but he was a hell of a pass rusher.

If we are talking about roles & responsibilities, The SAM in Wade's Dallas 3-4 was an alternate pass rusher. Sometimes he would rush the passer, sometimes he wouldn't.

D-Ware almost always rushed the passer, & the DE opposite him would almost always be trying to come around the other side.

In GB, it's the same thing. Matthews almost always rushes the passer, the other OLB was 50-50 or so.....

A guy like Spencer may have had more sacks than Spears, but that's just the way things go.

If Mario is going to be like Bruce Smith.... playing that role, he'll continue to be a primary pass rusher.

thunderkyss
03-07-2011, 09:13 AM
"Role" and "position" are not the same thing. I don't doubt that some 3-4 teams may think Schobel would be a realistic fit for them in certain situations. Once again, I'm saying that Schobel would not be able to do what the Texans had planned with Barwin. Barwin was listed as a DE in a 4-3. I realize Schobel could play that position. However, what he would not be able to do is drop in coverage and run all the twists and exotic blitzes and stunts that they scheduled to do with Barwin. WHy this would even be up for debate is beyond me. Barwin is a special athlete. Schobel is on the backside of an excellent career, gives good effort, understands technique and has good hands. I would have loved for Schobel to be a Texan last year. He could have done a good job playing a traditional DE role for us.

Have you ever watched Schoble play? He's a smallish DE, very athletic. If Barwin could do it, Schoble could.

The only difference, being that Schoble did not go to camp, we probably wouldn't have run any of the stuff we "schemed" for Barwin, the same way Anderson, Nading (mostly), and Jamison didn't.

HOU-TEX
03-07-2011, 09:34 AM
Jamison is a better football player and a playmaker. Nading is not a playmaker. I hated the move when it happened. Knowing the severity of Mario's injury now, I really hate it now. Nading does not belong on an NFL roster. Jamison has the potential to be a quality NFL DE. Regardless whether they can do identical things, keeping Nading over Jamison was a mistake that never should've happened if the coaching staff could assess its personnel better.

LOL

The Texans get rid of one of your "quality" players and it's a mistake? Heh, heh, good ole Dale. You get a woody for bubble players and get upset when the Texans snap it off. Where are all of your "quality" players playing now?

dalemurphy
03-07-2011, 10:06 AM
LOL

The Texans get rid of one of your "quality" players and it's a mistake? Heh, heh, good ole Dale. You get a woody for bubble players and get upset when the Texans snap it off. Where are all of your "quality" players playing now?

Well, Jamison is back on the roster (played quite well late in the season) and Wade believes he can transition successfully to OLB.

It's not always about my players... The biggest failing of Smithiak, regarding personnel, is its inability to assess the second half of the roster. For instance, I am not a Jacques Reeves guy. Reeves didn't play for anyone after we cut him last year. However, if the Texans kept him last season like they should have, we probably win 8 games instead of 6. Why cut him and keep Molden (whom I like) if they would be unwilling to play Molden no matter how poorly the other CBs on the roster played? Makes no sense.

During the preseason, these guys were messing around with Chris Henry. Why? They were actually excited about him during training camp. I was at training camp and watched the preseason games. Anyone excited about Chris Henry, clearly has some major issues assessing talent.


Also, let me add that the 4th DE on the roster becomes a pretty important decision when the team knows in July that Mario Williams is attempting to play the season with a sports hernia. It becomes even a bigger issue when Connor Barwin breaks his ankle in week one. Those decisions are why some teams battle through a rash of injuries and have successful seasons while others do not.

RipTraxx
03-10-2011, 10:42 PM
Am i the only one that wishes Mario and Cushing were coming off the edge?

dalemurphy
03-11-2011, 05:32 AM
Am i the only one that wishes Mario and Cushing were coming off the edge?

“If a pass develops, you’re pretty much rushing the guard. If I have to do it, I have to do it, but it would be a huge change.”- Mario Williams.

No, apparently Mario also wishes it too. Playing in Houston, though, he is going to have a high opinion of offensive guard play. After all, even an all-world talent like Shelley Smith can't get in the game at guard for the Texans. How does one even begin to compete and prepare for that kind of talent and depth... Maybe his self-confidence will be strengthened once a collective bargaining agreement is reached an one of the other NFL franchises actually attempt to sign Kasey Studdard to a contract.

dalemurphy
03-11-2011, 06:00 AM
“If a pass develops, you’re pretty much rushing the guard. If I have to do it, I have to do it, but it would be a huge change.”- Mario Williams.


In other news:
Vonta Leach wonders why he ends up blocking LBs almost every play. "If I could get more carries near the goal line, I could produce better stats without having to work as hard." But, he is so impressed with Mario William's leadership that he has agreed to begrudgingly do what the coaches ask of him.

Owen Daniels- thinks his talents would be better served just going out for passes on every down and not being asked to block DE and LBs sometimes: "Just because there are 53 men on the team and 11 offensive positions, is no excuse for creating gameplans that do not revolve around my unique set of skills... They think that giving me a $6 million signing bonus and $4 million per year in salary gives the coaches a right, as employers, to demand productivity and effort in the parts of my job I don't like. I don't think so! Our team leader since 2006, Mario, has been able to dictate to both defensive coordinators what position he prefers, which playcalls he wants repeated and doesn't want repeated, and which spot on the defensive line he prefers to play on each week. Now that I'm getting paid, I want to be the same kind of leader that Mario has been to this team."

IDEXAN
03-11-2011, 06:36 AM
I'm thinking it could be well into 2012 before the defensive personnel really has a firm grasp on this new defense, especially if they don't get the new CBA worked out until near or during the beginning of the regular season schedule which would mean no or little preparation/installation time. It could be OJT for the Texans new 3-4 in the 2011 season ?
Remember Frank Bushs first year here, it was a month before the defense started to function with the implementation of a new version of the 4-3,
the "4-3 under" defense ?

steelbtexan
03-11-2011, 07:44 AM
FWIW, I found some old notes on the Schobel situation when it was fresh.:

He said it himself in the Chronicle article that he wasn't in good shape and it would only take a week or two get back in playing.

Common sense would better estimate more like 4-6 weeks. Keep in mind that the last game he played was 01/03/10 which was the last game of last season. So for basically for 9 months, he had no incentive to get in shape because he was thinking about retiring since then. He skipped all of the Bills OTAs, mini-camps, and offseason training programs.

Schobel wanted to come as a starter.



It was John McClain and Lance on radio that McClain said that he was under the impression a deal was done when he went in for the workout and then the Texans asked him to take less than they'd already agreed to. John and Lance both said that the Schobel family was furious with the Texans and that they will have nothing to do with the team going forward.

The bye week comes into play.

Schobel probably would've been ready to play at a high level after 3 games and improve the team. As with everything else in this dysfunctional organization, it came down to $$$$.

Schobel got a 1st hand taste of how Rick and by abstensia BoB do business. Apparently BoB just lost another family of fans. (Schobels') LOL

Ole Miss Texan
03-11-2011, 08:51 AM
“If a pass develops, you’re pretty much rushing the guard. If I have to do it, I have to do it, but it would be a huge change.”- Mario Williams.


In other news:
Vonta Leach wonders why he ends up blocking LBs almost every play. "If I could get more carries near the goal line, I could produce better stats without having to work as hard." But, he is so impressed with Mario William's leadership that he has agreed to begrudgingly do what the coaches ask of him.

Owen Daniels- thinks his talents would be better served just going out for passes on every down and not being asked to block DE and LBs sometimes: "Just because there are 53 men on the team and 11 offensive positions, is no excuse for creating gameplans that do not revolve around my unique set of skills... They think that giving me a $6 million signing bonus and $4 million per year in salary gives the coaches a right, as employers, to demand productivity and effort in the parts of my job I don't like. I don't think so! Our team leader since 2006, Mario, has been able to dictate to both defensive coordinators what position he prefers, which playcalls he wants repeated and doesn't want repeated, and which spot on the defensive line he prefers to play on each week. Now that I'm getting paid, I want to be the same kind of leader that Mario has been to this team."

Dale - are those actual quotes from these guys or is that your attempt of humor? lol

If they are in fact real, that's the kind of stuff that pisses me off... but doesn't surprise me. Every player thinks they're the bees knees. Every WR thinks he should get the ball more, every RB thinks he should get the ball more, now WR/TE wants to block and they think the coaches should play them more or throw the ball more to them. This is when I just want to say "shut the f*ck up and play".... it's a team sport and this is how you win. You're a part of the team, not the center of it.

GNTLEWOLF
03-11-2011, 09:07 AM
I'm thinking it could be well into 2012 before the defensive personnel really has a firm grasp on this new defense, especially if they don't get the new CBA worked out until near or during the beginning of the regular season schedule which would mean no or little preparation/installation time. It could be OJT for the Texans new 3-4 in the 2011 season ?
Remember Frank Bushs first year here, it was a month before the defense started to function with the implementation of a new version of the 4-3,
the "4-3 under" defense ?

And there it is...the excuse/reason why Kubiak will not be held accountable this year no matter what the record is....

Ole Miss Texan
03-11-2011, 09:16 AM
Remember Frank Bushs first year here, it was a month before the defense started to function with the implementation of a new version of the 4-3, the "4-3 under" defense ?

And there it is...the excuse/reason why Kubiak will not be held accountable this year no matter what the record is....

If it took Frank Bush a month... I'm thinking it may take Wade Phillips 1 day.

What really sucks about it is if true Free Agency doesn't open until as the season starts because that means new guys (likely starters) coming in here for the first time and having to play actual games quickly before much practice. I hate that the players/coaches aren't allowed to practice - that's what could set back the learning curve, if you will.

The good news though is it should take NFL Offenses more time to start clicking than defenses. I think Wade will have us attack. Sure there will be mistakes... but we should be able to capitalize more on opposing Offenses' mistakes from poor timing, miscommunication, etc. That is a plus I guess.

HOU-TEX
03-11-2011, 09:20 AM
Dale - are those actual quotes from these guys or is that your attempt of humor? lol

If they are in fact real, that's the kind of stuff that pisses me off... but doesn't surprise me. Every player thinks they're the bees knees. Every WR thinks he should get the ball more, every RB thinks he should get the ball more, now WR/TE wants to block and they think the coaches should play them more or throw the ball more to them. This is when I just want to say "shut the f*ck up and play".... it's a team sport and this is how you win. You're a part of the team, not the center of it.

Dude, after all this time you haven't learned to take all his posts with a huge grain of salt? He's either trying to pump sunshine up everyone's asses or pimping players that are borderline NFL talents.

GP
03-11-2011, 09:39 AM
Owen Daniels- thinks his talents would be better served just going out for passes on every down and not being asked to block DE and LBs sometimes: "Just because there are 53 men on the team and 11 offensive positions, is no excuse for creating gameplans that do not revolve around my unique set of skills... They think that giving me a $6 million signing bonus and $4 million per year in salary gives the coaches a right, as employers, to demand productivity and effort in the parts of my job I don't like. I don't think so! Our team leader since 2006, Mario, has been able to dictate to both defensive coordinators what position he prefers, which playcalls he wants repeated and doesn't want repeated, and which spot on the defensive line he prefers to play on each week. Now that I'm getting paid, I want to be the same kind of leader that Mario has been to this team."

Link please.

nero THE zero
03-11-2011, 09:46 AM
The Leach and Daniels quotes are obviously total fabrications.

The Mario quote is actually two partial quotes joined together (out of context):
“If a pass develops, you’re pretty much rushing the guard. If I have to do it, I have to do it, but it would be a huge change.”- Mario Williams.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Quotes-Locker-cleanout/cca44b43-c69e-4a11-84ee-d4afd44d8032
(on what the biggest adjustment would be for him if the defense changed to a 3-4 scheme)
"...For a defensive end, you’re up on the tackle; if a pass develops, you’re pretty much rushing the guard. So I mean, it’s just a lot of different things. It just all depends on the scheme of things and how things turn out, like you were saying about how we would do it and implement it...”

...

(on DE Antonio Smith’s comments that neither he nor Williams are two-gap linemen)
"...[Smith]’s played three-technique and nose and shaded and stuff like that; but me, if I have to do it, I have to do it, but it definitely would be a huge change.”

Ole Miss Texan
03-11-2011, 10:00 AM
The Leach and Daniels quotes are obviously total fabrications.

The Mario quote is actually two partial quotes joined together (out of context):

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Quotes-Locker-cleanout/cca44b43-c69e-4a11-84ee-d4afd44d8032

Thank you for the clarification. Rarely do players bring up the specifics of the their salary/contract when talking to reporters.... at least players of OD's intelligence level. lol

GP
03-11-2011, 10:54 AM
The Leach and Daniels quotes are obviously total fabrications.

The Mario quote is actually two partial quotes joined together (out of context):

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Quotes-Locker-cleanout/cca44b43-c69e-4a11-84ee-d4afd44d8032

1. It's a bit bush league to not include the sarcasm tag if a person is using humor and mixing it with reality.

2. If a person has a blog and wants to be taken seirously, he/she is undermining their own credibility if they leave it up to the general Internet public to decipher what is real and what is not.

Trying to not bag on dale too hard here, but he should have noted that his post was in jest. In a slow off-season, when news is hard to come by, and due to how scarce information from the Texans is anyways...it would be prudent to let the consumers know, up front, if they're reading humor or if they're being entertained.

When I do (in a post) what dale did, I try to make it very clear that I'm just kidding around. I've had to learn the hard way. Fortunately, hardly anybody has been reading the current posts in this thread and it didn't have 12 replies whereby 12 people fell for it.

I semi-fell for it, but went back and asked for a link to get to the bottom of it. I couldn't imagine OD being so foolish to say those things...yet we ARE amazed every day by the bad decision-making by pro athletes in regards to how they use social media outlets. That's why the post was believable, due to the climate we live in today.

IDEXAN
03-11-2011, 11:14 AM
If it took Frank Bush a month... I'm thinking it may take Wade Phillips 1 day.

OK go ahead and bash Bush if you want, but he was just introducing a varyation of the 4-3 to the defense his first year, which played pretty well after the first month as I recall ? On the other hand it's a major transition for the entire front-end (DLine & LBs), to move from the 4-3 to the 3-4.

GP
03-11-2011, 11:36 AM
OK go ahead and bash Bush if you want, but he was just introducing a varyation of the 4-3 to the defense his first year, which played pretty well after the first month as I recall ? On the other hand it's a major transition for the entire front-end (DLine & LBs), to move from the 4-3 to the 3-4.

I'm sort of with you, on this one.

We've got some problems on defense, especially with never having had a competent person leading them for damn near a decade.

While Kubiak built his great offense of domination, he's been, figuratively-speaking, spitting on the wildfire known as our defense.

I don't think Rome gets built in a day here on this situation, and I think those saying Kubiak remains even after a bad 2011 might indeed be correct. I think Bob's gonna' let him go all the way through the end of his last year of contract...even when I just recently stated I didn't think Bob would let him serve out a final year in 2012. I'm reversing course. Kubiak will be here through 2012.

Ole Miss Texan
03-11-2011, 11:41 AM
OK go ahead and bash Bush if you want, but he was just introducing a varyation of the 4-3 to the defense his first year, which played pretty well after the first month as I recall ? On the other hand it's a major transition for the entire front-end (DLine & LBs), to move from the 4-3 to the 3-4.

I was totally exhaggerating but Wade does have a VERY good history of going into new places, switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4 and them having success immediately.

I'm not so much as bashing Bush as just saying he was very inexperienced. I do like the little he brought to the defense but however long it took "to get formed" is just odd to me. A 'variation' of the 4-3 shouldn't be hard for players to pick up... especially one that likely fits their skillset better and allows them to think less and attack more.... all this while they have months to prepare for it before any games are played.

beerlover
03-11-2011, 11:47 AM
I think the Texans need to proceed as if Barwin never makes it all the way back (of course I hope he does) so they address position early in the draft & anything after that is gravy :fridge:

The Pencil Neck
03-11-2011, 12:01 PM
I think the Texans need to proceed as if Barwin never makes it all the way back (of course I hope he does) so they address position early in the draft & anything after that is gravy :fridge:

I approve this message.

gary
03-11-2011, 12:05 PM
I just see Phillps being our next head coach in 2012 or 2013.

nero THE zero
03-11-2011, 12:23 PM
I just see Phillps being our next head coach in 2012 or 2013.

I'd call that "The Lock of the Century."

Grams
03-11-2011, 08:29 PM
I just see Phillps being our next head coach in 2012 or 2013.

Me too and I shudder to think of it.

IDEXAN
03-12-2011, 07:43 AM
I think the Texans need to proceed as if Barwin never makes it all the way back (of course I hope he does) so they address position early in the draft & anything after that is gravy :fridge:
Yes, that was a real nasty injury he sufferred and his return to pre-injury form is uncertain. Plus even if fully healthy, we really can only "project" his competance as a LB ? I would expect the Texans to Draft a "minimum" of two 3-4 OLBs.

thunderkyss
03-12-2011, 06:48 PM
I think the Texans need to proceed as if Barwin never makes it all the way back (of course I hope he does) so they address position early in the draft & anything after that is gravy :fridge:

So you don't see Anderson or Jamison as a Rush OLB?

dalemurphy
03-12-2011, 09:52 PM
So you don't see Anderson or Jamison as a Rush OLB?

They aren't guys you are going to want playing almost every snap. And, if you have a guy that struggles dropping in coverage, you want a guy with better ability to do those things on the other side. Neither of those guys will be strong, or even average, in coverage.

I'm excited about Jamison converting, though.

thunderkyss
03-12-2011, 11:52 PM
They aren't guys you are going to want playing almost every snap. And, if you have a guy that struggles dropping in coverage, you want a guy with better ability to do those things on the other side. Neither of those guys will be strong, or even average, in coverage.

I'm excited about Jamison converting, though.

I think Anderson is even more athletic than Barwin. I actually think he'll be a better OLB than Barwin.

Rey
03-13-2011, 12:26 AM
I think Anderson is even more athletic than Barwin. I actually think he'll be a better OLB than Barwin.

The times that I've seen Barwin drop back in coverage he's looked pretty natural doing so....

I'm Ok with him in zone coverage...Not sure how he'd do in man covg against TE's or RB's....

I think Anderson is the best pure pass rusher on the team. I am pretty sure they will find a way to get him on the field...Heck...He and Barwin may end up being the starting OLBs, or they may end up competing for the same spot...

nero THE zero
03-13-2011, 12:29 AM
The times that I've seen Barwin drop back in coverage he's looked pretty natural doing so....

I'm Ok with him in zone coverage...Not sure how he'd do in man covg against TE's or RB's....

I think Anderson is the best pure pass rusher on the team. I am pretty sure they will find a way to get him on the field...Heck...He and Barwin may end up being the starting OLBs, or they may end up competing for the same spot...

He's not technically "on the team" FWIW. He's an UFA.

The Pencil Neck
03-13-2011, 01:31 AM
He's not technically "on the team" FWIW. He's an UFA.

He got tendered. He's not UFA.

From HT.com. (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Texans-extend-tender-offers-to-Foster-six-restricted-free-agents/6ce90f0d-54c7-4935-b73f-448713fbcde5)

steelbtexan
03-13-2011, 08:46 AM
So you don't see Anderson or Jamison as a Rush OLB?

I dont

The strengths of a good 3-4 is the LB's a really good NT and 1 DE that can hold up against the run on 1st and 2nd downs, plus put pressure on the QB on 3rd downs.

Think of the great 3-4 teams

NYG LB's Taylor,Reasons,Carson,Banks

thunderkyss
03-13-2011, 09:49 AM
I dont

The strengths of a good 3-4 is the LB's a really good NT and 1 DE that can hold up against the run on 1st and 2nd downs, plus put pressure on the QB on 3rd downs.

Think of the great 3-4 teams

NYG LB's Taylor,Reasons,Carson,Banks

Yeah, watching him play, Anderson looks like he would be just as good as Barwin in this role, if not better.

dalemurphy
03-13-2011, 10:07 AM
Yeah, watching him play, Anderson looks like he would be just as good as Barwin in this role, if not better.

If we end up retaining Anderson, it will be interesting to see what happens. I don't see him as anything more than a situational 4-3 end... not that he couldn't provide depth at OLB in a 3-4, particularly in the first year of the transition to it. But, I hope you are right about him. However, if he is as good as Barwin in the role, then Barwin isn't who I think he is.

thunderkyss
03-13-2011, 06:25 PM
If we end up retaining Anderson, it will be interesting to see what happens. I don't see him as anything more than a situational 4-3 end... not that he couldn't provide depth at OLB in a 3-4, particularly in the first year of the transition to it. But, I hope you are right about him. However, if he is as good as Barwin in the role, then Barwin isn't who I think he is.

I understand Anderson is a question mark at OLB, however, I believe the same to be true about Barwin. I think with both of them, we hedge our bets that one of them will be that dynamic pass rusher we need from the week side.

The two, in my mind, negates the "need" to draft a rush LB & allows us to focus on other needs, and take the BPA in the first.

I like Cushing and DeMeco inside. I think that makes us very strong at ILB. If DeMeco isn't what he used to be, then that opens another hole I don't want to think about.

I'm more concerned about who we'll start at SAM.. has to be a true LB. At least I'd feel better, if it were a true LB, not a pass rushing specialist. IMO, this is the guy we need to draft.

Or, we can move Cushing back to SAM, then we'll need someone to start inside, with a gimpy Demeco.

Given either scenario, I think we need to go forward thinking WOLB (rush LB) is answered with Anderson/Barwin. Like I said, it's a hedged bet.

nero THE zero
03-13-2011, 06:57 PM
He got tendered. He's not UFA.

From HT.com. (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Texans-extend-tender-offers-to-Foster-six-restricted-free-agents/6ce90f0d-54c7-4935-b73f-448713fbcde5)

He has 4 years experience, he will be a UFA the minute a new CBA is signed.

steelbtexan
03-13-2011, 07:52 PM
He has 4 years experience, he will be a UFA the minute a new CBA is signed.

You're talking about a guy who got cut in the middle of the season. He's not going to be hard to re-sign.

I wouldn't count on a Bears reject playing a big role at WLB. A role he has never played in his life. In fact it wouldn't suprise me if he isn't resigned.

dalemurphy
03-13-2011, 08:18 PM
You're talking about a guy who got cut in the middle of the season. He's not going to be hard to re-sign.

I wouldn't count on a Bears reject playing a big role at WLB. A role he has never played in his life. In fact it wouldn't suprise me if he isn't resigned.

Steel,

this is about the 3rd time we have agreed on something this off-season!

The Pencil Neck
03-13-2011, 08:24 PM
He has 4 years experience, he will be a UFA the minute a new CBA is signed.

We don't know what's going to be in that new CBA, do we? There may not even be a new CBA.

Rey
03-13-2011, 11:18 PM
You're talking about a guy who got cut in the middle of the season. He's not going to be hard to re-sign.

I wouldn't count on a Bears reject playing a big role at WLB. A role he has never played in his life. In fact it wouldn't suprise me if he isn't resigned.

I don't think they would have tendered him if what you're saying was true.

Obviously they like his pass rushing abilities from the edge or else they would have just let him walk already.

steelbtexan
03-13-2011, 11:49 PM
Steel,

this is about the 3rd time we have agreed on something this off-season!

That must be sone kind of record.

I knew you would come over to the dark side. LOL

nero THE zero
03-14-2011, 08:37 AM
You're talking about a guy who got cut in the middle of the season. He's not going to be hard to re-sign.

I wouldn't count on a Bears reject playing a big role at WLB. A role he has never played in his life. In fact it wouldn't suprise me if he isn't resigned.

It wasn't my contention that we would not re-sign him, rather, that we haven't.

We had an opportunity to agree to a new contract with him prior to the March 4 deadline. We didn't. When a new CBA is reached, we will have the opportunity to sign him to a contract if we'd like to, but he will be an UFA.