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thunderkyss
03-03-2011, 09:01 AM
What is your opinion of Troy Nolan? Is he a starter? Is he a FS/SS? Can he be easily beat out by a 3rd round rookie?

Same questions for Barber?


What do you think our safety needs are?

Rey
03-03-2011, 09:08 AM
What is your opinion of Troy Nolan? Is he a starter? Is he a FS/SS? Can he be easily beat out by a 3rd round rookie?

Same questions for Barber?


What do you think our safety needs are?

I think Nolan can be a solid back up at both Safety positions and a good special teams guy. That's based on my impression of him last year.

I think that he can progress into a good starter, but I think he needs to refine his game.

I don't even think Barber should be on the team. I do not think he's an NFL player. JMO.

76Texan
03-03-2011, 10:14 AM
I think Nolan can be a solid back up at both Safety positions and a good special teams guy. That's based on my impression of him last year.

I think that he can progress into a good starter, but I think he needs to refine his game.

I don't even think Barber should be on the team. I do not think he's an NFL player. JMO.

Same thinking here.
If Nolan can get the mental part of the game straight, he can be a starter.

The Pencil Neck
03-03-2011, 10:17 AM
I expected Nolan to step up and take the FS spot from Wilson last year and I was really let down that he didn't do it.

Other than that, I agree with Rey and 76Texan. Nolan is good on ST and he should fight for one safety spot.

It's going to be interesting to see what kinds of guys we get to play safety and whether they perform better under Phillips. What am I saying? They'd pretty much HAVE to perform better than what we've had in the past.

76Texan
03-03-2011, 10:19 AM
I expected Nolan to step up and take the FS spot from Wilson last year and I was really let down that he didn't do it.

Other than that, I agree with Rey and 76Texan. Nolan is good on ST and he should fight for one safety spot.

It's going to be interesting to see what kinds of guys we get to play safety and whether they perform better under Phillips. What am I saying? They'd pretty much HAVE to perform better than what we've had in the past.

That won't be hard to do, LOL!
:toropalm:

painekiller
03-03-2011, 10:33 AM
I think our starting safeties are going to Quin at FS and Nolan at SS, at least that appears to be the depth chart right now.

When FA starts time to get real busy.

gary
03-03-2011, 10:50 AM
Allen might be one starting conerback but I am not sure who the other coner would be unless the sign a free agent to start.

alphajoker
03-03-2011, 11:15 AM
Same thinking here.
If Nolan can get the mental part of the game straight, he can be a starter.

Based off what the coaching staff thought of him at the start of training camp in 2010, that was one of his better qualities. I remember the staff saying that for Nolan to have been out on IR all of 2009, they were impressed that he had been in his playbook and was farther along than the staff anticipated. Anyone else recall that?

thunderkyss
03-03-2011, 11:18 AM
Based off what the coaching staff thought of him at the start of training camp in 2010, that was one of his better qualities. I remember the staff saying that for Nolan to have been out on IR all of 2009, they were impressed that he had been in his playbook and was farther along than the staff anticipated. Anyone else recall that?

I recall that.

To me, the thing with Nolan is consistency. & that comes from being on the field, and recognizing/trusting what you see.

Last season was his rookie year (basically) the biggest jump should be in year two. Hopefully we'll have coaches, that can make that happen.

But I think he's more SS than FS, he looked better (I thought) when he subbed for Pollard.

Albeit only one game.

Rey
03-03-2011, 11:25 AM
Based off what the coaching staff thought of him at the start of training camp in 2010, that was one of his better qualities. I remember the staff saying that for Nolan to have been out on IR all of 2009, they were impressed that he had been in his playbook and was farther along than the staff anticipated. Anyone else recall that?

I think that knowing the plays and being strong mentally are two different things. There are lots of guys who know the plays, but it's their mental preperation that allows them to anticipate things come game time.

Taking gambles vs taking smart/calculated gambles...I think that is an area that Troy can improve on.

dc_txtech
03-03-2011, 01:35 PM
I think our starting safeties are going to Quin at FS and Nolan at SS, at least that appears to be the depth chart right now.

When FA starts time to get real busy.

With us not re-signing Pollard you might be right about Quin to safety but I just don't see it happening. Quin was our best CB last year and the only guy on the team that actually looked like an NFL caliber corner last year. Unless we make a big splash in FA I'm banking on Quin staying at CB next season.

BullNation4Life
03-03-2011, 01:39 PM
Nolan is your new SS and Quinn is your new FS....

That leaves, and I dare say, Allen, Jackson as the starters if the season started today...

The Pencil Neck
03-03-2011, 02:31 PM
Nolan is your new SS and Quinn is your new FS....

That leaves, and I dare say, Allen, Jackson as the starters if the season started today...

And isn't Allen a FA?

Corrosion
03-03-2011, 03:10 PM
They dont have much at Safety .... Maybe Quin is moved but that means you absolutely must find two more corners who can contribute more than just falling down.

badboy
03-03-2011, 03:33 PM
I expected Nolan to step up and take the FS spot from Wilson last year and I was really let down that he didn't do it.

Other than that, I agree with Rey and 76Texan. Nolan is good on ST and he should fight for one safety spot.

It's going to be interesting to see what kinds of guys we get to play safety and whether they perform better under Phillips. What am I saying? They'd pretty much HAVE to perform better than what we've had in the past.I agree with your post. Hopefully, we will draft a FS to start.

Mr teX
03-03-2011, 04:00 PM
Everyone has the raiders games in their heads when they talk about this kid, but i just don't trust him yet. I'd be much more comfortable if we pulled a vet from another team. He can sub in with the vet while learning the game & hopefully make enough plays to force his way into the line-up.

After last year's debacle, noone back there should be handed a starting job. Those dudes need to hit camp thinking they could be on the street if they don't perform up to standards.

gary
03-03-2011, 07:37 PM
Move Quin to FS and Nolan to SS and that would leave Jackson and Allen at CB. Not sure about those at CB.

texanchris
03-03-2011, 07:48 PM
I would rather leave are best cornerback at corner and just draft or sign a safety rather than switch Quinn to FS. As for Nolan, as much as i want him to succeed and be a starter, i think he is a back up and special teams sort of guy.

EllisUnit
03-03-2011, 07:51 PM
And isn't Allen a FA?

yeah. i have not heard one thing about him since the season ended. its a shame cause he was easily the best CB we had last season.

Wolf6151
03-03-2011, 08:10 PM
I'd give Troy Nolan a shot at SS but he's most likely a backup at best. I'd give Barber his walking papers.

Remember the 2009 preseason when Kubiak told us that Barber was ready to be the starting SS, I said then that he was terrible and shouldn't be an NFL player. The Texans then picked up Bernard Pollard off the street 4 weeks into the season because Barber was terrible and yet Barber is still cashing an NFL paycheck 2 yrs. later after being replaced by a street level FA. This just shows that Kubiaks defensive talent evaluations skills suck.

leebigeztx
03-03-2011, 08:15 PM
Why they didnt sign OJ Atogwe is another example of the texans doing business as usual.

JB
03-03-2011, 08:57 PM
Why they didnt sign OJ Atogwe is another example of the texans doing business as usual.

Maybe Atogwe didn't want to come here?

leebigeztx
03-03-2011, 10:14 PM
Maybe Atogwe didn't want to come here?

Maybe if the texans would show some real desire to upgrade the secondary vs going with what we got or the draft, they can land some of these guys cut loose. As soon as sanders and oj were released, the texans should have at least brought them
in and kicked the tires. Sanders and rogers on a 1 yr deal or atogwe for the 5 yr deal would have solidfied the texans secondary. Stroud as a 5 technique would have been better than antonio smith at that same position,but of course, its the texans.

BullNation4Life
03-03-2011, 11:52 PM
Maybe if the texans would show some real desire to upgrade the secondary vs going with what we got or the draft, they can land some of these guys cut loose. As soon as sanders and oj were released, the texans should have at least brought them
in and kicked the tires. Sanders and rogers on a 1 yr deal or atogwe for the 5 yr deal would have solidfied the texans secondary. Stroud as a 5 technique would have been better than antonio smith at that same position,but of course, its the texans.

So you want a guy who has played 3 games in 3 years to be your safety? Might as well kept Wilson. As for Rodgers, he is a quitter, was quitting on Rob Ryan in Cleveland and they ran a 3-4...

these players were released for a reason, just like Pollard was released for a reason and the Texans found out why this past season, 8 red zone TDs given up...

these players are not the answer to an already atrocious defense...

HOU-TEX
03-04-2011, 08:45 AM
Maybe if the texans would show some real desire to upgrade the secondary vs going with what we got or the draft, they can land some of these guys cut loose. As soon as sanders and oj were released, the texans should have at least brought them
in and kicked the tires. Sanders and rogers on a 1 yr deal or atogwe for the 5 yr deal would have solidfied the texans secondary. Stroud as a 5 technique would have been better than antonio smith at that same position,but of course, its the texans.

So basically you think the Texans should bring in every cat that gets cut?

JB
03-04-2011, 09:53 AM
Maybe if the texans would show some real desire to upgrade the secondary vs going with what we got or the draft, they can land some of these guys cut loose. As soon as sanders and oj were released, the texans should have at least brought them
in and kicked the tires. Sanders and rogers on a 1 yr deal or atogwe for the 5 yr deal would have solidfied the texans secondary. Stroud as a 5 technique would have been better than antonio smith at that same position,but of course, its the texans.

Again, how do you know that they didn't contact the agents? Maybe they were told that there is no interest in playing for the Texans by these guys who have lots of teams to choose from?

Mr teX
03-04-2011, 09:59 AM
I'd give Troy Nolan a shot at SS but he's most likely a backup at best. I'd give Barber his walking papers.

Remember the 2009 preseason when Kubiak told us that Barber was ready to be the starting SS, I said then that he was terrible and shouldn't be an NFL player. The Texans then picked up Bernard Pollard off the street 4 weeks into the season because Barber was terrible and yet Barber is still cashing an NFL paycheck 2 yrs. later after being replaced by a street level FA. This just shows that Kubiaks defensive talent evaluations skills suck.

Barber also contributed alot to ST too though. He surely isn't a starting safety, but he's likely still cashing an NFL paycheck b/c of ST so...

infantrycak
03-04-2011, 10:10 AM
Stroud as a 5 technique would have been better than antonio smith at that same position,but of course, its the texans.

Yeah since the Texans didn't do it, it must be a bad decision. Smith was a far better player last year than Stroud.

nero THE zero
03-04-2011, 10:25 AM
Yeah since the Texans didn't do it, it must be a bad decision. Smith was a far better player last year than Stroud.

Not to mention Stroud was cut specifically because he didn't fit Buffalo's 3-4.

CloakNNNdagger
03-04-2011, 11:54 AM
As time's gone on, things have gotten so confusing to me as to what type of personel this D is going to really require. I read reports that say that we are going to a 3-4. Then I read that we will be a "hybrid" 3-4. And then I read our 3-4 will be closer to a 4-3. If the FO is as confused as I am now, our draft and FA could look real strange.

The Pencil Neck
03-04-2011, 12:18 PM
As time's gone on, things have gotten so confusing to me as to what type of personel this D is going to really require. I read reports that say that we are going to a 3-4. Then I read that we will be a "hybrid" 3-4. And then I read our 3-4 will be closer to a 4-3. If the FO is as confused as I am now, our draft and FA could look real strange.

There are different flavors of 3-4 with slightly different assignments and different approaches to doing things.

And I think it gets more complicated with Wade in the mix because I think what he does is he tries to get the best players he can and then he modifies his defense to take advantage of what they do best. If he's got a small NT, he uses that guy's strengths and asks him to do different things than when he has a big NT.

I think Wade thinks he can make a defense work with whatever he's given just like Kubiak thinks he can make an offense work with whatever he's given. So during the draft, I expect them to go more BPA than we've ever gone before because Wade sees each player as possible options to his defense rather than "I've got to have THIS guy and only THIS guy."

Or... I could be wrong.

ChampionTexan
03-04-2011, 12:27 PM
As time's gone on, things have gotten so confusing to me as to what type of personel this D is going to really require. I read reports that say that we are going to a 3-4. Then I read that we will be a "hybrid" 3-4. And then I read our 3-4 will be closer to a 4-3. If the FO is as confused as I am now, our draft and FA could look real strange.

Yeah, but just imagine how difficult it will be for our opponents to game plan for!

thunderkyss
03-04-2011, 12:59 PM
... I expect them to go more BPA than we've ever gone before because Wade sees each player as possible options to his defense rather than "I've got to have THIS guy and only THIS guy."

Or... I could be wrong.

Other than Diles & Pollard you mean.


:kitten:

The Pencil Neck
03-04-2011, 01:06 PM
Other than Diles & Pollard you mean.


:kitten:

He saw them as options that he could easily and signficantly upgrade via FA or the draft.

infantrycak
03-04-2011, 01:15 PM
There are different flavors of 3-4 with slightly different assignments and different approaches to doing things.

And I think it gets more complicated with Wade in the mix because I think what he does is he tries to get the best players he can and then he modifies his defense to take advantage of what they do best. If he's got a small NT, he uses that guy's strengths and asks him to do different things than when he has a big NT.

I think Wade thinks he can make a defense work with whatever he's given just like Kubiak thinks he can make an offense work with whatever he's given. So during the draft, I expect them to go more BPA than we've ever gone before because Wade sees each player as possible options to his defense rather than "I've got to have THIS guy and only THIS guy."

Or... I could be wrong.

I think you are spot on.

HOU-TEX
03-04-2011, 01:34 PM
There are different flavors of 3-4 with slightly different assignments and different approaches to doing things.

And I think it gets more complicated with Wade in the mix because I think what he does is he tries to get the best players he can and then he modifies his defense to take advantage of what they do best. If he's got a small NT, he uses that guy's strengths and asks him to do different things than when he has a big NT.

I think Wade thinks he can make a defense work with whatever he's given just like Kubiak thinks he can make an offense work with whatever he's given. So during the draft, I expect them to go more BPA than we've ever gone before because Wade sees each player as possible options to his defense rather than "I've got to have THIS guy and only THIS guy."

Or... I could be wrong.

Good post, PN. I think that was a huge issue with Bush. He had an idea of having success of his scheme on paper, but his players didn't fit what he was wanting to do. I've said this a 100 times, but putting the players in the best position to succeed will make or break a coach.

Historically, Wade has had a huge impact on defenses in his 1st year with them and I can only assume ours will do the same. However, it ain't going to take much to make 2010's defense better.

CloakNNNdagger
03-04-2011, 02:39 PM
There are different flavors of 3-4 with slightly different assignments and different approaches to doing things.

And I think it gets more complicated with Wade in the mix because I think what he does is he tries to get the best players he can and then he modifies his defense to take advantage of what they do best. If he's got a small NT, he uses that guy's strengths and asks him to do different things than when he has a big NT.

I think Wade thinks he can make a defense work with whatever he's given just like Kubiak thinks he can make an offense work with whatever he's given. So during the draft, I expect them to go more BPA than we've ever gone before because Wade sees each player as possible options to his defense rather than "I've got to have THIS guy and only THIS guy."

Or... I could be wrong.

Rep coming your way! BPA was going to be my guess with all the "nonspecifities." Get the best that's available out there.......then use some damn good glue. This approach will only work successfully, though, if it is not only applied to the Draft, but also to FA. The latter is where I'm most skeptical since it involves "bidding."

beerlover
03-04-2011, 02:48 PM
Rep coming your way! BPA was going to be my guess with all the "nonspecifities." Get the best that's available out there.......then use some damn good glue. This approach will only work successfully, though, if it is not only applied to the Draft, but also to FA. The latter is where I'm most skeptical since it involves "bidding."

so by his logic if Julio Jones is on the board #11 Texans take him because he is BPA?

CloakNNNdagger
03-04-2011, 02:58 PM
so by his logic if Julio Jones is on the board #11 Texans take him because he is BPA?

I wouldn't necessarily be disappointed with that pick. But I have the feeling that BPA for the Texans will mean defensive BPA.

beerlover
03-04-2011, 03:04 PM
I wouldn't necessarily be disappointed with that pick. But I have the feeling that BPA for the Texans will mean defensive BPA.

then its not truly BPA

HOU-TEX
03-04-2011, 03:05 PM
I wouldn't necessarily be disappointed with that pick. But I have the feeling that BPA for the Texans will mean defensive BPA.

This is another reason we need FA before the draft. Do we really want to spend a 1st on a WR? Do we want to take another chance on a CB in the 1st? Should we "reach" for the best OLB available?

IMO, a lot of questions can be answered in FA. CB and S are the positions, I think, that need to be addressed in FA. I wouldn't be up in arms if we chose a WR, but I don't think we're good enough to draft BPA in the first or 2nd rounds.

beerlover
03-04-2011, 03:13 PM
This is another reason we need FA before the draft. Do we really want to spend a 1st on a WR? Do we want to take another chance on a CB in the 1st? Should we "reach" for the best OLB available?

IMO, a lot of questions can be answered in FA. CB and S are the positions, I think, that need to be addressed in FA. I wouldn't be up in arms if we chose a WR, but I don't think we're good enough to draft BPA in the first or 2nd rounds.

as long as they keep extending the CBA deadline. Teams are addressing needs right now as I post this & players will continue to move until there is another change one week from now. So Texans get busy.

The Pencil Neck
03-04-2011, 03:16 PM
so by his logic if Julio Jones is on the board #11 Texans take him because he is BPA?

I think there's more of a chance of that than people might think.

HOU-TEX
03-04-2011, 03:17 PM
as long as they keep extending the CBA deadline. Teams are addressing needs right now as I post this & players will continue to move until there is another change one week from now. So Texans get busy.

That's incorrect. As of midnight last night there has been a "tolling agreement" in place. There can be no player movement or signings until a deal is in place.

The extension of the CBA also includes a "tolling agreement"; in this scenario, the league's 32 teams still will be prohibited from executing player transactions. It is the same agreement reached Thursday. During this period, teams can talk about players but signings or renegotiations of current contracts cannot occur.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6181794

CloakNNNdagger
03-04-2011, 03:23 PM
then its not truly BPA

Exactly.

beerlover
03-04-2011, 03:27 PM
That's incorrect. As of midnight last night there has been a "tolling agreement" in place. There can be no player movement or signings until a deal is in place.



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6181794

so all the deals announced today where hammered out before the original one day extension? tell me how all these players are changing teams without FA?

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2789/bob-sanders

or for Texans might they target Watson, whats to stop them? http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3656/gabe-watson or Tye Hill for that matter addressing two needs via free agency? http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3673/tye-hill

CloakNNNdagger
03-04-2011, 03:30 PM
This is another reason we need FA before the draft. Do we really want to spend a 1st on a WR? Do we want to take another chance on a CB in the 1st? Should we "reach" for the best OLB available?

IMO, a lot of questions can be answered in FA. CB and S are the positions, I think, that need to be addressed in FA. I wouldn't be up in arms if we chose a WR, but I don't think we're good enough to draft BPA in the first or 2nd rounds.


I agree with all you say. You are more likely to get players with immediate impact in FA (if you are willing to spend the money on the right players). There aren't that many 1st round WRs that I can remember that made immediate impact..............eventually proving value, yes; but immediate impact, no.

HOU-TEX
03-04-2011, 03:34 PM
so all the deals announced today where hammered out before the original one day extension? tell me how all these players are changing teams without FA?

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2789/bob-sanders

or for Texans might they target Watson, whats to stop them? http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3656/gabe-watson or Tye Hill for that matter addressing two needs via free agency? http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3673/tye-hill

From what I gather, deals were done yesterday and last night. I guess they just don't get reported unless they're confirmed. Here's the Peprah deal that actually says it was done right before the deadline.

Packers agreed to terms with S Charlie Peprah to a two-year, $2.3 million contract.
Peprah signed the deal before the midnight deadline Thursday. He's likely headed back to a reserve role with Morgan Burnett reclaiming the strong safety job in 2011. Peprah is a favorite of the coaching staff, and the deal keeps him off the open market as a five-year vet. The Packers will now move on from free agent Atari Bigby.

http://www.rotoworld.com/playernews/nfl/football

ChampionTexan
03-04-2011, 04:17 PM
so all the deals announced today where hammered out before the original one day extension? tell me how all these players are changing teams without FA?

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2789/bob-sanders

or for Texans might they target Watson, whats to stop them? http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3656/gabe-watson or Tye Hill for that matter addressing two needs via free agency? http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3673/tye-hill

What specific deals? I saw the NFL network reporting the Chargers signing of Bob Sanders even before the original expiration time of 11:59 EST yesterday.

Rey
03-04-2011, 04:22 PM
so all the deals announced today where hammered out before the original one day extension? tell me how all these players are changing teams without FA?

I think that these are players that have been cut from their teams. If I'm not mistaken players who's deals have simply expired are the ones that must wait until a free agency period.

gary
03-04-2011, 05:14 PM
I think most free agents will end up resigning with their current teams.

CloakNNNdagger
03-04-2011, 05:41 PM
I think most free agents will end up resigning with their current teams.

Most RFAs.........not most UFAs.

thunderkyss
03-04-2011, 07:35 PM
I agree with all you say. You are more likely to get players with immediate impact in FA (if you are willing to spend the money on the right players). There aren't that many 1st round WRs that I can remember that made immediate impact..............eventually proving value, yes; but immediate impact, no.

I'm a proponent for Julio Jones.


But you speak the truth.


This should be an all out effort by the Texans to make something happen this year.


There ain't no tomorrow.

:texflag:

beerlover
03-04-2011, 07:49 PM
I'm a proponent for Julio Jones.


But you speak the truth.


This should be an all out effort by the Texans to make something happen this year.


There ain't no tomorrow.

:gotexans:

If the Texans where to draft Julio Jones I think he would easily beat AJ Green as best rookie WR in this system with weapons surrounding him. People seem too full of themselves & Texans offensive prowess, F'N that I want to be the NFL's premier offense, they need to leverage their offensive Head Coach. Draft what you know best & let Wade do a better job of utilizing the defensive talent already here then addressing holes via FA & draft.

Julio would help Andre keep cleaner & healthier. Open up more running lanes for Foster, Ward & Tate (excellent down-field blocker). Owen is back & can pick up garbage underneath & keep corners from cheating. The OL has experience & continuity. Just don't be complacent & turn your back on a great player just because you believe the offense is stacked, it only takes one injury to AJ to knock him out, then what?

thunderkyss
03-04-2011, 08:05 PM
Just don't be complacent & turn your back on a great player just because you believe the offense is stacked, it only takes one injury to AJ to knock him out, then what?

I've gone back & forth on this... I just don't know.

I feel you. Neglecting to stack talent on the offensive side of the board is going to bite us in the knickers sooner rather than later.

I feel really good, with Foster, Ward, Tate, Slaton.

I feel equally as good, with OD, Dressen, Casey, Graham, Hill

I feel really great, if they bring back Butler.

I'm worried, about Andre, Walter, Jacoby Jones, David Anderson, Dorin??

I'm just as worried about Schaub, ??

It may already be too late, & Kubiak's got himself in a pickle.